MMA Fighting - Anthony Smith Reacts to Aljamain Sterling's DQ Win at UFC 259 and the State of the Light Heavyweight Division

Episode Date: March 11, 2021

Anthony Smith reacts to the fallout from UFC 259 where Aljamain Sterling became bantamweight champion after being unable to continue following an illegal strike from Petr Yan, which somewhat mirrored his own experience against Jon Jones in 2019. Smith also discusses his upcoming fight against Jimmy Crute, the recent fight between Jan Blachowicz and Israel Adesanya as well as the state of the light heavyweight division. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Damon Martin, M.M.A. Fighting here with one of my favorite guys to speak to. He is one of the top-line heavyweights in the world, but he's becoming one of the best analysts in the world, which is why I like talking to him about everything going on in the sport today. Anthony Smith, Anthony, what's going on, man? How are you? I'm good, man. I just got out of practice, finished up strength conditioning. I'm done for the day. And, yeah, just hanging out here in beautiful Denver, Colorado.

Very nice, very nice. So obviously deep into training camp already. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, man. We're rolling, man. It's going really well. I'm excited. Yeah, absolutely. So Anthony, before you get to anything else, man, let's talk about the fight.

You obviously stepped in, got the fight with Jimmy Crute. You're going to fight him in April. I know when we spoke after your last fight, you're looking forward to taking a little bit of time off. This one's going to come, what is about five, about five, six months later. Is that about the timing of this one? Yeah, yeah. I feel good about the timing. You know, they came to me with a couple different dates,

and it just, I don't know, man, I just wasn't ready and I was really enjoying time with my family, but at the same time, I couldn't take off too long because then I'm stuck fighting in the summertime, and we both know how much I hate doing that. So I wanted to get it out of the way so I could take the summer off. And, yeah, man, I'm excited about the fight.

I like Jimmy Crute. Obviously, I don't know him, like, personally, but I like his game. I'm a fan of his style. I like how he approaches the game. He's not one of those newer bred fighters, the new breed of guys that really, I don't know, they engage in the fight everywhere. He's not, he's not your special.

He's not your Damien Maia. You know, I think the days of those kind of guys are going to be fewer and far between. He likes to grapple. He'll wrestle. He's got big, heavy hands, and he'll fight me anywhere. And that's kind of how I've always been. So that's exciting for me. Yeah.

And I know when we spoke out to your last win, you mentioned that was the guy who won to fight you very respectfully obviously nothing you know no like trash talk or anything but you're like yeah that's the guy I would fight and so it kind of it came about kind of a weird way but you got it yeah yeah and you know they came with I you know I didn't

I didn't really get any solid fight offer there's a lot of dates and they threw around a couple names and I was like I'm less concerned with the name I'm more concerned with the date so you got a couple guys out there in the division that are kind of pissed off about it but I think Jimmy Cruz the guy I think that he's severely

underrated, I think he's under-ranked. And I think that the UFC knows it, the boys in the back know it. And, you know, I think that he's going to, I think he's going to give me a run for my money, man. I think he's going to make it a tough night for me. Yeah, he's a fun fight. Like, this is one of those fights where it's kind of like we don't have to really sell it. It kind of sells itself because his style and your style kind of match up perfectly to what we kind of imagine is going to be a fun fight. Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing, man.

I really love these kind of fights where, I really love these kind of fights where I, I'm just like, I don't really got to, like, focus on one thing or another. I just got to fight the position in front of me. Because I don't even know if he knows where he wants to fight to fight at. You know what I mean? I think he's going to do the same thing I'm going to do. He's just going to, we're going to stand across from each other, and we're just going to take what each other gives the other person.

So those are exciting fights for me, man. And he's young, you know, the knock on me. I guess people always say that I'm the guy fighting kind of an older generation of fighter. So let's knock off another one of these young up-and-comers. and remind people. Yeah. I remember talking to you before the Devin Clark fight, and you told me at that point,

like, you know, you were just wanting to fight, you wanted to, you know, get back on track. Obviously, you went out there and got a big win. But we hear this so much lately, and I brought this up to so many people. I had this conversation with Benil Daryush after his last win, I had it with a couple other fighters

where it's like there's a frustration from some of the guys who are not necessarily in that top five or six in the world, those top five or six guys just won't fight them. They're all worried about the rankings. They're all worried about, you know, their plays in the division. And to a point, I guess. I understand you want to fight someone higher ranked to move you ahead in your career,

but you fought Devin Clark knowing he had more to gain from that win than you did technically based on what you guys had accomplished in the division. And you could say the same thing here. Like you're a former tighter challenger, obviously higher in the rankings. And Jimmy Krupp probably gets more in terms of that. But I don't hear any, like, you know, I don't hear any like hesitation. Like, oh, I shouldn't be fighting this guy. And I like that attitude.

No, man, listen, I'm kind of from that old school generation. and we're like, all you need to do to get me to fight you is raise your hand. That's it. As long as it makes sense somewhat, you know, obviously some of the stuff you've got to justify and the Devin Clark was just, you know, I stepped in kind of, kind of a little, I wouldn't say short notice, but I think I was only five weeks out. And, you know, there wasn't anyone else available. So it was like, all right, Devin Clark's the guy.

If that's who they want, that's who won't fight. Obviously, it's easier to do that when you're coming off some losses. or you've kind of stubbed your toe a little bit. But, you know, I'm not, I was that guy. I was that guy who couldn't get the big opportunity, couldn't get the big fight, couldn't get the higher-ranked guys to give me a, you know, to give me the time of day.

So I'm, I don't know, man, maybe some of it is I'm just trying to change the game. Like, if he beats me, then I don't deserve the ranking I have. So that's how I look at it. Like, I'm not trying to hide from anybody. I'll fight anybody. Yeah. I like that attitude, though, because I think we do miss out on some fun fights when there's so much focus on the rankings. When it's like, like, I was telling Benil Daryush, I was like, you and Tony Ferguson would be a great fight.

Like, that's a fun fight. Now, in terms of rankings, it's, you know, technically a step down for Tony, but who wouldn't want to watch that fight? That's a fun fight. I think we do miss out on some fun fights just because we get too tied up into, oh, the rankings, the rankings, and, you know, just go out and fight. Like, have some fun with it. Like I said, if you're better, like, I remember that with Kamar Usman. He's like, if I'm better than you, then I should beat you. If I'm not, then I shouldn't have that ranking in the first place.

That's exactly it. And listen, us guys up here in the top five, let's not pretend like we don't enjoy getting top five paychecks to fight, you know, 15-ranked guys. Like, whatever. Like, if I'm as good as I say I am, then I should enjoy getting these high-ranked paychecks to fight the lower-level guys. Like, but that's not how a lot of guys feel.

That's not how they think. That's not how they operate. And, you know, it's frustrating. It was frustrating for me, and I always told myself I was never going to be that guy. Now, I'm not saying I'm going to spend the rest of my career fighting the guys ranked 10 through 15. That's not what my plan is. But, you know, every once in a while or now twice in a row, like, if that's what I got to do to work my way back up, then I'm fine doing that. Yeah.

And I agree with you, though. I think Jimmy Crude is underrated. I mean, his one loss to Misha Sarkhanov is not a bad loss. Misha is a super tough guy. You look at him as a winner of Paul Craig. Obviously, a couple of big finishes in a row. Like, I think he's obviously a very solid opponent. No, I 100%.

Hey, hold on one second. I think my, I just blew it. I think I just blew the engine in my car. What? I'm not even joking. How do you blow the engine in your car? I have no idea, but I'm like literally sitting in front of the house that I say at. I parked.

I was going to finish the conversation with you. I just heard this gurgling burning sound. And I was like, open the door and it's this smoke rolling over the hood. Oh, my God. It doesn't matter. Let's keep on going. That's a new one. I got to be honest, all my interviews all these years.

I don't think I've ever talked to you when blew their engine during an interview. Actually, it may not be the motor. It's smoking and a freeze. Oh, wow. Oh, well, don't get in danger by doing the interview. We can always talk later. If you're okay, go.

No, we're good. No, we're good. We're good, man. I just pop the door open and we'll finish this conversation. I like talking to you. Well, I appreciate that. And as I said, Jimmy Crute, you know, not the rank guy, but I think he, I agree with you.

I think he's kind of underranked. And people kind of give him a little bit underrated there. Yeah, you know, and I believe he was winning that Misha Serkinoff fight until he wasn't. So Misha Sarkinov is a tough dude. He's been in the UFC for a long time. I believe it was a submission loss. And, you know, you end up on the ground with Misha. That's just, you know, you're kind of playing with fire if you're not like a,

you're not a high-level black belt, and you're going to mess around on the ground with Misha. circling off for too long, he's going to catch you. And that's just the, that's how it goes. And again, we've got to remember the Jimmy Cruz, like 24 years old. He's not, he's not 32-year-old Anthony Smith with, you know, 70-something fights totally. He made a mistake, and I don't suspect he's going to make those mistakes again. Yeah. Now, one thing I actually just realized, and I know that the rackage fight, you know,

was obviously kind of the weird timing with that when it ended up being a main event, end up being a three-round fight. But I just realized, like, this is the first time in a while where you haven't been in the main event. I was like, this is weird. Like, you're not going to be the main event at UFC 261. I was like, this is a weird position. You've been the main event for so many fights in a row.

And I know you always appreciate the main event slot, but this is a weird one. I was like, man, it's actually been like years since you haven't been the main event. Yeah, seven straight main events. That's actually a record. I'm the only guy to have seven straight main events as a non-champion. Oh, my God.

Now tell me, are you disappointed to break that streak? just a sport? No, man, it's I don't mind it. You know, it's really cool. But, I mean, think about this. How long is Junior DeSantos? How long was he in the UFC?

He had 13 main events. I'm already halfway there and haven't been around as long as he has. So, I mean, I think that's cool. You know, it's a cool little feather in my calf to have that many main events. To be very honest with you, though, I'm not disappointed in only having three rounds.

That's, you know, like think back. like, what if the Glover fight was only three rounds? How much different does that division look right now? Yeah, you're absolutely right. Because that was a three-round fight, I win that fight. Yeah. And I think everything looks different,

and he doesn't beat Chiago-Santos because they never fight. So I don't know, man, it's cool. I don't mind the, I'm not one of those guys, like, I don't care, like, we broke the streak. I'll enjoy the three rounds. And again, I don't mind people. paying my dues, you know. I stub my toe a couple times, and I got to work my way back up, and that's

fine. Hey, let's be honest, though, in the day and age we're in right now, you might be the main event. We just don't know. And you know what? That's happened before recently, so you never know. Yeah. Let me ask you about the kind of the state of the light heavyweight division. We just had the title

defended, obviously, this past week, and Jan Blahovic went out there and had a great performance of battle with Israel out of Sonia, and you're a guy, obviously, you came up from middleweight, and you've kind of, you've transformed yourself into a light heavyweight. And you were a guy, kind of like Tiago Santos, you guys were killing yourselves to make middleweight.

I know that was never an easy cut for you to get down to that division. Whereas a guy like Israel-A-Sanja, he's kind of a natural middleweight. He's not a guy who cuts a tremendous amount of weight, and he didn't cut any weight to fight. Yomboovic, and maybe that came back to bite him. I don't know. But what do you, like, what

did you think of that fight and kind of your opinion of like, you know, now we have kind of an established champion again in Yombollahovich? Yeah, I mean, you know what, man, I was really happy for Yombovich. I'm a big Israelistani fan. But you know how I am, man. I'm always going to root for the old dog. You know, he's kind of the old guard.

You know, he's kind of, I'm like the younger fighter that came up in his same generation. So it's cool to see him go two and four in the UFC on the brink of being cut and end up turning it around. And then he's the champion of the world and just beat, you know, what's Israel? Adasani on the pound for pound list. He was like number three at the time. So, I mean, just amazing for him, amazing for his family. Just really cool to see that guy be successful. And you'll never be able to take that from him. You know, like he's the guy, he's the first guy to beat Israel Adasani in MMA. He beat him and stopped him from taking his title and becoming the champ champ.

Like he, that's huge, man. That's a legacy. That's something he'll always be able to have. And you can never be able to take that from him. and he'll be fine man he'll he'll be good he's going to still continue to do well at middleweight i don't see anybody in middleweight beating him right now anyways um and you know the fight kind of went a lot the way that a lot of the ways that i said it was going to you know i was actually really proud of my analysis you know i really spent a lot of time digging into these guys and i think a lot of people thought i was crazy i said that izzie wasn't going to be able to dominate yon with lake kicks he did get some through but it's you know through and through

over the entirety of 25 minutes, I'd be shocked if Israel landed five solid late kicks, which is different for him. I mean, maybe the numbers say different, but as fighters, we know what's solid and what's not. They may count them, but we all know that if those are real or not. So I think Yon did a great job managing the distance. He managed his output.

He didn't sprint a lot. And I said that I thought that he was going to be, he was going to have an easier time getting to him than a lot of people have in the past. And, you know, just a phenomenal performance. And what a great job of switching up to a game plan and really being patient on the takedowns. You know how hard it would be to know that you can dominate that guy in the ground

if you can get in there and wait until the fourth round to shoot? Like, man, that guy's grown so much. And that seems to be what happens when these guys get these titles. You know, it almost like the title comes with a little bit of swag and a little bit of, you know, I don't, it just brings like some sort of special. sauce with it, I guess, and, like, guys won the title, and then they get better. And that's, it's just really cool to watch. Now, that said, I really like the matchup with Ron, and I'm chasing that.

You know, I really like how him and I match up, and I'm trying to get there. Yeah, absolutely. I love that fight as well. And it's weird you say that because I actually, I picked Yon to win the fight. That's no disrespect whatsoever to Israel, Al-Asania. He's as good as advertised. I just felt like Yon size-wise, power-wise, wrestling. I just thought he had the weapons to do what guys.

in middleweight can't really do to Israel. I just thought that was going to be a problem for him. And I actually believe Glover Toshara is a tougher matchup for Yon than Israel was. Now, maybe I'm wrong, but I actually think that's a tougher fight for him. You're 100% right. Glover sits down on his punches and really, one of the things I said in the lead-up to the Izzy fight, and I don't think Israel would disagree with me, he doesn't have the raw power to sit down on a punch and put Yon on his ass.

He just doesn't. Could he catch him when he's blitzing and kind of sit him down when he's over-extended and his chin's up in there? 100%. But if they're both standing in the pocket and the feeder set and Izzy's throwing caution of the wind, he's not going to put that guy down. You know who can, though? Glover-Deshire can sit anybody on their ass any time he wants if he can connect. And also, I think Glover could really push the wrestling. And if they end up on the ground, I would have a blast watching those guys.

fight on the ground. You know, two high-level black belts, both guys are kind of more top pressure guys. So it would be fun to see a round where Glover has Yon on his back, and then the next round, Yon has Glover on his back. I just want to see how their jiu-jitsu and their grappling matches up. Striking-wise, I don't foresee either one of those guys wanting to test those waters too much. If anybody does, I would imagine it's going to be Yon Boloovich, because, you know, in the passed. Now, that seems to be changing a little bit, but Glover has had some durability problems with taking shots as he's gotten older. I'll tell you this personally. I hit Glover with everything, including the kitchen sink, and that dude barely blink. So, you know,

Tiago Santos was obviously super powerful and explosive guy was able to hurt him a couple times, but for whatever reason, he's found the way to extend his career and maybe as he's getting older, he's taking care of his body better, he's in better shape, and he's able to take some of those shots a little bit better. Yeah. I know you're not calling either of those guys out right now, but I think people forget, you know, when you had the fight with Glover, obviously, everyone wanted to talk about the ending, but the beginning of the fight was all you. And obviously, you know, credit to Glover for surviving and coming back. I mean, that's obviously to his credit. But like you said, I like the Yon fight. I like the Glover rematch. And I think those are both fights we could see for you down the road. Yeah, 100%. You know, I want the I want the Glover fight back.

Absolutely. You know, I wanted the Tiago fight back, but, you know, he doesn't look the same. You know, and I'm not trying to talk trash on Tiago. I have nothing but respect for that guy. He just hasn't looked the same since he came back from the surgery. And people forget Tiago's not a young man either. You know, he's not 40-something-year-old Glover to Shera. But if I'm right, Tiago's 36 or 37, maybe 38, but he, so he's getting up there too.

And he was coming off some really major knee surgery. So I really liked the Blahovych fight. And I like those fights because those are two really good dudes. Two really good. I mean, Glover-Teshire even stuck up for me in the post-fight press conference to John Jones. That's the kind of dude. And he just beat the shit out of me for two and a half round. And then goes to the press conference and spends his moment, his shining moment,

to stick up for me. That's just a good-ass dude. And I don't know Yon at all. I've never been around him or experienced him around people, but he just seems like a pretty genuine dude. Yeah, I only know him from interviewing him, but he is like genuinely one of the nicest guys ever.

Everything you see on TV is very much him. Like, he's just a very down-to-earth dude. Like, you know, I could, like, I would be shocked to ever hear him say like a legitimately bad thing about the opponent because I don't think that's in him. Right, right. And that's, you know, that's how I read it too. I have a teammate that had some beers with him by the pool

in Abu Dhabi and, and, and had nothing but what really nice things to say about that guy. So, you know, with that kind of error we went through when everyone's an asshole and talking shit, and it's all about trash talk and whatever, it's nice to just see some, you know, even Izzy, like him and John Jones have their beefs and him and, you know, Paulo had their beef.

But for the most part, you didn't hear him say anything negative about, you know, about gasolam or any of those guys that didn't really come at him. So, you know, you kind of see that as time has gone on, You know, it's fairly nice guys that are kind of sitting at the top right now. Yeah. And I know that sounds stupid. It doesn't really matter.

But for me, it makes me happy. Yeah. Well, you look at the light heavyweight division. Like I said, where you're at right now going to Jimmy Crew fight. Like I said, it's a good time because we, you know, things aren't really defined right now. You got rockish. But unfortunately, you know, obviously, you know, credit to him having a great performance against you. But he didn't, I mean, again, I don't think he blew anybody away with the Tiago Santos fight.

He won, obviously, good for him, but I don't think he was like, you know, everyone's like supercharged. And man, that guy gave him a title shot right now. But like I said, there's not that clear cut, you know, after Glover, you know, again, a couple wins get you right back in there. And again, I know you're not calling him out. I want to make that clear. But, you know, you get a big winner of Jimmy Crue, you're right back in that mix where you want to be. Right, right. And then we're going to be back negotiating and trying to work our way into a title shot.

And again, I'll be, you know, I get in there and I beat Jimmy Crude. I have no problem. I'll fight again. You know, I'll fight one more if I got to. Which is, you know, but who knows? That may be the winner of, maybe I fight the loser of Glover, Glover Blahovich. Maybe I, you know, maybe we see if Rackich is still hanging out there and we can look at that rematch. I don't know, but I haven't thought about it too much.

You know, I just really want to, I really want to put a stamp on Jimmy Crew. As nice of a guy as he seems and as respectful as he's been up to this point. I'm kind of on a different level right now. I'm super happy. I'm having a really good time training. But if you ask any of my training partners right now, they're not really enjoying training with me so much. I got a little bit more of an edge to me right now.

Yeah, yeah, a little bit, that's when the training sessions are like, damn, man, what'd you do? Yeah, you know, Cody Brudgeon said to me one time, one of my main training partner's really tough wrestler, really gritty dude, just phenomenal athlete all around. You know, I took him out to dinner,

and then the next night, the next day we had sparring, and after the round he walked out of the cage and was like, damn, man, I had you over for dinner last night. What the hell was that for? You know, at the end of the day, we got to get in there and get after it. You know, so there has been times

in the past where, you know, I have backed off a little bit and just been enjoying being there, but I'm just kind of in a different place. I went to my rough patch and I got through it and I'm just really happy and I'm just really, really trying to just trying to push the pace. And these young guys, man, you give them an inch. Them dudes are going to take

your head off, so they're keeping me on my toes. Yeah, I know after you had such a chaotic 2020, I know we talked many times about that, you felt good going into the Devin Clark fight, and again, that's not taking anything away from Rockets or Glover for all the insanity going around there, but I know you felt really good coming in and coming out of that

fight, and it sounds like you're carrying that same kind of energy into this fight with Jimmy Crude. Yeah, I am, man, I'm just I don't know what happened. You know, obviously I know what happened in 2020. There was a lot of terrible shit happened to me in 2020, but I still feel like, like, like, I, like, Rackich and Glover and Tiago, like, those guys aren't better than me, you know,

like they were better than me that night. I'm not going to take anything away from them, but those are beautiful guys. And, you know, I just, I just wasn't where I needed to be in my own head. I wasn't where I needed to be personally. And, you know, I got all that shit figured out. I worked on myself. I'm, I'm just, you know, I worked out some kinks in the gym as far as how I'm approaching training.

Like, you know, I'm there every single day, but was I present? You know, did I have so much other shit going on where I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I was just maybe checking a box. And, you know, I think even rackage, to be very honest with you, I think I overlooked him a little bit. I knew that he was a big, powerful striker, but I was fairly confident. We touched the ground one time.

I was going to choke the shit out of him. And, you know, he had a different game plan. He didn't want to engage with me. You wanted to hold me down. And you know what? At the end of the day, he kind of wrote the book on me. Like, if you want to beat me, like, standing in front of me and trading is probably not the best idea. But also,

engaging me on the ground is probably not a great idea either. So you don't do either. You don't engage me on the feet. You know, throw the kicks from long range. If you end up on top, don't engage me and do enough to not get a stand-up today. It's a phenomenal game plan. And that's stuff I have to address. That's not on him.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, like I said, I love this fight with Jimmy Crude. Like I said, where the light heavyweight division is right now. Again, you know, lots of things can happen. And we don't have, you know, after the Glover fight, we don't have a clear-cut person. Even, again, again, credit to him for getting the win over Tiago. But, again, I don't think he went screaming for. Rockets to, you know, jump into a title fight right now. So, again, the options are out there.

And, again, this is a good time to get this Jimmy Crew fight and a good time for the division. With that being said, Anthony, let me ask you, let me ask you put your analyst hat on for a second real quick before I get you out of here, because beyond your own division, this last weekend at UFC 259, we also saw the situation that happened in the Banjaway Division with Al Jermaine Sterling and his fight, by Peter Yon. And obviously, you have experience with something similar with your fight with John Jones. It's come up so many times. Obviously, over the years, people, you know, John, everyone else gives you credit, you know, going out there and continuing to fight and, you know, not sitting and not taking the DQ, which again, you know, could have either resulted in no contest or DQ and you would have been crowned champ. I'm not going to rehash all that.

But now Al Jamein's taken, you know, kind of a fairly decent amount of flack for not continuing to fight. Now, I said, and again, I'm the outsider, I'm doing the, I'm doing the, I'm a doctor, but I'm not a doctor. So I'm doing the thing right now that I hate, but I'm doing it. As soon as he got hit and he was down, I was like, stop it. Like, he looks done. Like, he just looked completely out of it. And when the replay showed, it was pretty bad. But as a guy who's been in there and gone through something similar,

and I know you can't get in Al Jermaine's head, can you give me your take on that whole situation, especially with the people who are giving him grief and saying, oh, you took the easy way out, you acted your way out, and now you're a champion. All right, so I'm going to approach this probably a different way than you would expect. I'm not going to speak on what I think about Aljo because if I'm being very honest,

anything I say about that situation is going to make it seem like I'm shitting on Al Joe. And I don't want to do that. Even if I wanted to shit on him, I wouldn't do it. We have mutual friends. We have the same manager. I'm just going to be very real with you. Even if I wanted to shit on him, I wouldn't.

I think, I don't know how to explain this. Like, I think that this shows that these referees need to take more responsibility. And I always feel like I'm shitting on the referees, and I'm really not. You've never heard me talk about a bad stoppage, a bad referee. I've never done that. But I have done as I've criticized them for things that they're unwilling to do. And it's because they don't want to take the heat. They'd rather put it on the doctor.

Like you've seen, you know, Mark Smith right away, you know, he just passed the buck right off to the doctor. Like, here's your job as a referee. if we're going to task you with the power and the ability to know when someone's hurt in a legal ending shot and you're supposed to be able to be trained enough and know enough in this sport to know when that guy's hurt that you're going to stop the fight and you're going to wave it off and no one says anything why does the legality of that shot matter that's that's my point like the legality of the blow shouldn't matter if if that league was if that need was legal he would have stopped that fight right afterwards had his he'd come up, he would have stopped that fight because Aljo could

wouldn't have continued. So because it's illegal, you don't have the balls to stop the fight and not put Aljo in a position where he has to make that decision. That's my problem. These referees are so afraid to take heat. And like

they don't want to insert themselves in the fights. Well, God damn it, when someone breaks the rules, that's your job. Because if you're not going to do that, let's be very honest here. We don't need you. We police ourselves in the gym, hard sparring, like, damn near fighting every single day. Like, we can have someone on the outside hold a timer. If I low blow you, 99% of the time, I'll just stop and say,

hey, my bad. Like, you know, maybe eye pokes are a little bit different because sometimes you don't always know when someone gets poked in the eye, like you don't always feel, you don't feel it when you poke someone all the time. But, like, we don't, at the end of the day, like, if you're not going to do that kind of stuff, you're not going to take the responsibility and step in and make the hard decisions and risk taking that kind of heat and responsibility, then what are you doing? Because we don't really need you that bad. I'm telling you, other than the guys that are the cowboys and the rogue guys that tend to break the rules a lot, other than those guys, we could do this on our own.

We could police ourselves. Yeah. That's kind of like, I was saying that on Saturday, and I was on Twitter. Because he kept going over to Algebra, but like, do you want to continue? Do you want to go? and I'm just like, dude, look, look at him. He's not in a place where he should be making a decision right now. Like, you can tell he was done.

Acting or not, acting or not, he looked like a person that couldn't fight, regardless of whether he was acting or not. But that's the point. Like, that's why I don't think that the, you know, the, you know, how genuine that was. I don't think it matters because what you were looking at was a person that didn't look like he could fight. I could see that from my couch on Copper Mountain in Colorado. So, like, if you can't see a stand next to him, then there's a bigger problem here.

So it goes right back to the same argument that I have with refs or with people getting upset, the corners aren't stopping fights. There's two people that are paid. That's their only job is to protect the fighter from himself, whether that's getting back up when you shouldn't have and continue to fighting, whether that's, you know, the fighter won't quit and he's just going to keep walking forward, but he's losing this fight badly and needs to be stopped. That's the referee and the doctor.

If you're going to pay, if these commissions are going to pay these doctors to sit caveside and make sure that everybody's safe, then that doctor should be watching the fight. Mark Smith, Herb Dean, Jason Herzog, Keith Peters, all of them know what a fighter looks like when he's hurt and can't continue. If they say they can't, then they should get a new fucking job. It's so frustrating to me. The doctor should be sitting outside of the cage. He should watch that fighter walk to the octagon.

He should watch his mannerisms, watch. he's in there, he should watch him while he's fighting, and when he doesn't look like that anymore and he doesn't look like he's the same person and he's hurt, get him out of there. That's what needs to happen. And that's Mark Smith is right there. He's two feet from him at all times. You know what Aljo looks like when he's hurt. I know what Aljo looks like when he's hurt, and I've never left him when he's

fight. Like all I've done is I've watched him fight. I know what he looks like when he's hurt. So it's like he took that shot right in front of your face, right after that guy, right if you told that fighter to not throw the knee. You've seen how hard the knee was. You've seen how Aljo reacted. You're going to make him fight another round and a half? Like, again, how Aljo

acted, whether he was pretending, whether he's faking it, whether he's playing, it, it doesn't matter. You have to go with what you're looking at. So why spend all that time, that's a hurt fighter? He's not going to be the same after that shot. If it's not enough to take two points from him and you don't think he can continue and be at the same level he was at before, then stop the fight and stop putting it on us because then it makes us look like pansies.

And again, me and Aljo are different people. I made a different decision because I'm a different person. Like my heart and brain is different than Aljo's. I never considered stopping. I tried to get up as fast as I can so that John didn't think I was injured or that I was hurt.

But I'm different. I don't expect everybody to be like me. I don't expect everybody to go through the shit that I went through in the Glover fight and still stand up on his own two feet. I don't expect people to have to do that. That's what, like, I'm not against fighters thrown or corners thrown in the towel.

I'm just against it for my team. That's not a blanket thing. I'm totally forethrown in the town. I think I don't have any problem with it happening. To be quite honest, I think some of these refs do such a bad job sometimes. I think it needs to happen more. So it's just me. So, like, you can't look at what I do and think that that's my outlook on the entire sport as a whole.

Like, what I think is right and what I'm doing for my own career are two completely different things. Yeah. Well, you're absolutely right. like I said, there are similar situations in the sense of you both took an illegal shot. Obviously, you chose to continue. Aljo couldn't. But I don't think it's Aljo's fault anymore, and I thought it was your fault. You know, that, like, you're right.

The referee should be the one to make that call because that's what we tasked them to do. And we always say they're there for the protection of the fight. That's ultimately their job in the cage is to protect you from fouls, to protect you from whatever, and to stop the fight when we think you can't continue. And like I said, you know, yeah, you're absolutely right. When you think about it that way, that's true. It shouldn't have been on Alzo to make that decision. It shouldn't go to record.

Think about this. I'm going to say this out loud, and you tell me how stupid this sounds. I was fouled by another fighter intentionally, and there's a referee here. The whole, like, in the name, referee, is to make sure everybody's following the rules, right? That you're not being fouled, that all fighters are doing what they're supposed to be doing and not breaking the rules. So then I'm going to be fouled by that fighter. the person who's supposed to be officiating this match wants me to decide whether this fight continues after the rule was broken

when you say it out loud it sounds so stupid it does like what why are you here then that's what I want to know that's what I want to ask them why are you here and to be fair to Mark Smith given the state of the sport and where we are in this current situation of like in this current problem I think he did an okay job actually he could have just been better and been more black and white and said nope he's compromised he doesn't look like he can continue uh let's you know we're going to call this fight he took a lot longer than he needed to um which which aesthetically made aljo look terrible um but at the end of the day he got it right and he stopped the fight so uh and i would have been pissed if that was me and that's why i got right back up and told him i was fine because i don't want to deal with that shit that's not what i do i don't i've never once in my whole life said i couldn't do

something or that I was hurt. Never done that and I'm not going to start now. So again, my situation is different, but it could have been handled better, but kind of where we are and where this rule situation is, it could have been way worse. Yeah, and to be clear, I actually think Mark Smith is a solid referee. I actually think he's kind of one of the underrated guys who doesn't typically make a lot of mistakes. There's referees I can absolutely point to and say, oh my God, please don't let him ref or, you know, I've gone public with a couple of guys. Actually, I've had real issues with refereeing. I actually think Mark Smith's pretty solid.

Like, he's never a guy that sticks out to me of making, like, terribly bad decisions. So, again, you know. No, no, it's not terrible. You know, and for me, there's some referees that, like, just personally, I wouldn't say that I don't like them, but I would rather have someone else. But in Mark Smith is one of those guys.

I would rather he didn't rep my fights. But that's not because he does a bad job, because he's made a bunch of bad decisions, because I'm nervous, he's going to screw me. He talks too much from being very honest. he talks too much. Like, I do think, though, if you had Jason Herzog or Keith Peterson in that octagon, I think that we're having way different conversations today.

Yeah. I think that the conversation looks like Peter Yon, illegally fouled Al Jermaine Sterling, and the referee stopped the fight because it was an illegal foul. I think that's the end of it. I don't think we're talking about, did Aljo fake it, it did, because even if he was, he was still illegally fouled in with a hard knee. So even if he was playing it up, it shouldn't even have got far. enough for him to be able to do that.

Like I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I an Aljo's initial reaction and would have stopped that fight. Yeah. I think Pete Peterson would have done the same thing. Um, I think Chris Tione probably would have, would have done something similar. Um, sometimes he, he seems a little bit unsure and questions himself sometimes, so I'm not 100% sure, but, um, I, you know, at the end of the day, I think Mark Smith was just kind of like, oh, fuck, you know, and, and kind of throwing off a little bit himself.

Yeah. you get put in a bad position, then you kind of find out who's ready for it. You know what I mean? Like that's when you got to, you got to make the tough calls. Like I said, referees make tough calls. We don't like it. You know what I mean? You don't necessarily like it, but that's their job.

They have to make the tough calls. Yeah, yeah. And if it's too hard and you can't take the heat, then, you know, like they get a different job. Yeah. Well, I agree with you. I know we had that conversation after the whole Glover thing with the whole corner stop. But when you said that to me, I was like, you know what? You're absolutely right in terms of that.

And, you know, like I said, the referee's in there. The referee had to, you know, could stop the fight if he wanted to. He didn't. So, you know, like I said, there's a lot of ways you can look at a situation, which is one of the reasons why I love talking about this stuff, because you kind of put me in a different headspace too. I'm like, you know what? That's true. That's actually right.

I know, and I don't think everyone's going to agree with me, but that's the time I look at it. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Well, Andy, I won't tie you up anymore. You got a car to figure out what's going on with a burning down while you're doing this interview. So I appreciate you doing this. man, obviously, have a good rest of your training camp, man. Can't wait to see you back in action.

When things start to open up again, fans are like, man, I want to get back out to an event again. It's been like over a year since I've been to a UFC event. I'm like, geez, I need to get back out to one of these events. Yeah, well, make your way out, and hopefully I'm working the desk, and we can hang out a little bit. Absolutely. Anthony, it's always a pleasure, my man.

I appreciate taking the time. Take care, brother. All right, talk to you soon. All right, bye. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Thank you.