MMA Fighting - Best of The MMA Hour 2017: In-Studio Guests Edition

Episode Date: December 25, 2017

On this special "Best Of" edition of The MMA Hour, we'll feature highlights from this year’s in-studio interviews. You’ll hear portions of Ariel Helwani's conversations with Alberto del Rio (00:08:08), Chael Sonnen (00:14:44), Scott Coker (00:24:35, 00:42:57), Mia Kang (00:29:57), Fedor Emelianenko (00:33:34), Matt Mitrione (00:38:27), Michael Chandler (00:44:25), Chris Weidman (01:05:10), Dillon Danis (01:15:50), Chase Sherman (01:22:03), Pat Miletich (01:28:10), Jimmie Rivera (01:32:56), Shane Burgos (01:36:15), Paul Felder (01:44:31), Heather Hardy (01:55:02), Lou DiBella (02:03:57), Stephen Espinoza (02:07:07), Al Iaquinta (02:10:47), Mickey Gall (02:23:50), Rafael Natal (02:32:29), Gegard Mousasi (02:47:35), Alexey Oleynik (02:55:54), Darren Till (03:00:18), James Vick (03:02:55), Kevin Lee (03:10:39), Randy Brown (03:17:54), Georges St-Pierre (03:19:50), Paulo Costa (03:24:11), Jake Hager (03:26:23), Garry Tonon (03:34:42), Tiffany Van Soest (03:42:00), Sijara Eubanks (03:58:40), and Chris Wade (04:16:07). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The Mixed Martial Arts Hour back in your life on this Monday, December 25th, 2017. Logan, everyone, I'm Ariel Hawani back inside our New York City studio. And if you are celebrating today, a Merry Christmas to all of you who are enjoying this day off with your family and friends, this very special holiday. In fact, one of my favorite holidays of the year. And you may find that piece of information to be surprising, considering the fact that I am a proud Jewish person. But as I've said, I do believe on this show, maybe it was the MMAB recently. Yes, it was the MMA beat. Christmas, one of my favorite

holidays, in fact, even before Thanksgiving, I am playing Christmas music in my house. I'm enjoying all the classics. Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby. I mean, single one of them. I'll dabble a little bit with the new stuff, you know, maybe a little Marai carry here or there, but really it's all the classics. I love it. When I was in high school, I bought the Time Life Treasury Christmas, the three-disc set, and I would play it in my car in July, in May, in March. I didn't care when it was. I love Christmas music. I love Christmas. It's a great time of the year. And let's not forget, of course, that, you know, JC was Jewish himself. So it's all kind of the same thing. I mean, we're all very happy. We're all excited. It's a great time to be

with family. So this is what you're going to do today. Of course, as I said last week, this is a taped show. This is not a live show. All right. And what we like to do at least one time a year, we like to give you a best of episode. So what better time than now to give you a best of episode because everyone's off on Christmas. And so what we've done this year is we're giving you the best of 2017 in-studio edition of the M.M. MMA hour. Now, why is it an in studio edition of the MMA hour? Because in 2017 alone, we have had more in studio guests on this show than in all the previous years combined. And I think a major reason why was our new set. The new set just kind of lends itself to, you know, having, it just felt right.

The old set didn't really feel as well. We had some in studio guests. You'll see them in a second, but it just, it felt different. And then we were on a strong. In fact, when we debuted this new set, there was a streak going for like two and a half months where we had an in studio guest every single week. I was very proud of said streak. Some of the biggest names in the sport and in combat sports came by this studio, this set over the past year. And so our good friend New York, Rick, is going to run down that list. We've compiled. And this is a little different this year, my friends, because this year we're not just, you know, giving you the full interview. That would take too long because it's. the in-studio interviews usually last an hour. So what we've done this year, and New York Rick was a big part of that, we've given you highlights so that we can fit in every in-studio guest

that we've had this year alone. Only 2017. We're going to do every single year because that'd just be too much. So New York, Rick, give them the list. Who are they going to hear from on this best of edition of the show? Before I do that, let me ask you a question. Yes, please.

You go through the effort of changing the shirt. What? what are you talking about? You go through the effort or changing the shirt, you go, this has to feel right and then you tell them

it's taped right off the back. I'm not going to lie. I already told them last week. You broke the fourth wall. Unbelievable. I mean, I already told them last week. See, now we're getting all confused. I already told them on December 18th

that we weren't going to come in because they wouldn't open the doors for me because they didn't want anyone working on Christmas. So yeah, look, visually, I don't want to see you or I don't want you to see me wearing the same thing as last episode. However, I liked, you know, this is what veteran broadcasters do.

They do this all the time in TV. In fact, I would go as far as to say you broke the fourth wall by actually addressing all of this. No, you already did it. You told them it was taped. It was very sort of under the radar. It was very sort of hush-hush. You got it. You snuck in there.

An interesting theme on this year's season of Curbier Enthusiasm. Anyway. What? Outfit Monitoring It came up So haven't watched it Oh

Yeah Okay What they The fans of this show Will watch This year As Aario said Huge year for us

In terms of In studio gas There's not even a close second This year As he said A streak Like when we moved Into this new studio

We had a streak Of at least eight Nine weeks Where we had somebody In studio Way more It was like two and a half weeks Two and a half months

Excuse me That Wait this. That's like eight, nine weeks. Okay, we're going to start with, this is from the old studio. Episode 367 kicked it off. This was our first in-studio guest. We had Alberto Del Rio.

Just run down the damn list. People don't want to hear you naming the episodes. For God's sakes, who cares, it's 365. I'm not going to name every single one. I'm just going where we started. We started with episode 367, Alberto Del Rio. We moved into Chal Sonnet, Scott Coker, model, Mia Ken. Fadour, Emilio.

Yes. Chris in the New Place. Matt Mitreone, same episode. Competitors in New York. Scott Coker again. Michael Chandler. Chris Wydenman. Dylan Dennis.

Chase Sherman. Pat Militich. Jimmy Rivera. Shane Burgos. Paul Felder. Heather Hardy. Lou DeBella. Oh yeah.

Stephen Espinosa. A real boxing theme right there. Al Aiaquinta. Mickey Gall. Haffaio Natal. Gagard Musassi. Darren Till. Alexio Linnik.

Then a triple editor. This was all in one episode. James Vic, Kevin Lee, Randy Brown. Then our special episode with George St. Pierre, Paulo Costa, both in studio, followed by Jake Hager, aka Jack Swagger, Gary Tonin, Tiffany Van Soust, Sajara Eubanks, and Chris Wade

for our last in-studio guest of the year. How about that? And you're going to get to hear from every single one of them in this episode. We spared no, expense in putting this together. Every single in studio guest from this year gets some kind of representation in the show today. Yes. Select

highlights from all these guests. You'll be hearing from all them. That is a who's who. Whoever books this show, by the way, did a phenomenal job in 2017. I mean, for you to get those guests onto this program in studio, no less. Absolutely amazing. So I can't wait. Favorite one? Do you have a favorite one off top of your head? No, come on. That's like picking children. That's like picking children. I'll say this. George St. Pierre and Paul

Holocaust, standalone. You weren't even there. That was incredible. You weren't even there that day. I was watching as a fan. That's why it means more. So this is what you have to do right now. You have to sit back, relax.

I hope you're wearing one of those pajamas that are one piece, you know. I feel like this is what people do Christmas morning, Christmas Day. I hope you've got the fire going, the Yule log, I think it's called. I hope you've got some eggnog. I love eggnog. My kids called Christmas drink. It's the most, it's so delicious. Who does not like eggnog?

please. I don't. Oh my God. So disappointing. But not really a surprise that you would say that. Anyway, sit back, relax. Gather the in-laws. Gather your family and friends,

your grandparents, your aunt, your uncle that you don't really like. Gather all these people and introduce to them the beauty that is the MMA hour and let them know that in 2017 we had more in studio guests than all our years combined. All seven years combined. More in studio guests. It was a pleasure talking to all of them. It was a pleasure doing this show. I hope you enjoy this best of edition of the MMA hour.

Here we go. And it's one thing to fight, you know, kind of like these guys that they're building up. It's another to fight Mirko Krookop. It's another to fight in Pride. Main event, Pride Bushido won, October 2003. You're fighting Miracle Kroop. Did you know who Mirko Krokoop was? Of course.

Of course. No, no, totally, totally. Actually, when they offered me of the fight, back then, my trainer was Marco who was. Yes. I don't know where Marco is, but if you're hearing this, Hi, Marco. You don't have a relationship with him. Give me a call.

Not anymore. Because I retired from MMA. I fucked with my in my progressing career. But hey, Marco, if you're there, give me a call. Yes. Give him a call.

Marco was like, hey, you can do it. You're fantastic. I had my last fight, the fight before, my fight before going into that Mirko fight was against Brad Kohler. And I completely destroyed him in less than two minutes.

So after that, That victory, Marco was like, hey, your card is amazing. You're there. You're there. Why not? You have nothing to lose if you go there. That's when Mirko was the man. He was killing everybody in pride, in Japan, and all over the world.

So Marco was like, you have nothing to lose. If you go there and shock the world, you're all sad. Yeah. And if you lose, nothing will happen. You will continue with your career. Unfortunately, that's exactly how it happened. I wasn't ready for Mirko that night. was too fast for me. I never saw.

People is always asking me about that kick, and I'm like, I didn't see a comment. When I saw it, it was over here. It could barely block it, and he ended up knocking me out. I wasn't ready that night for him. The amazing thing is that you're wearing the Lucha Libre mask, right? The Luchador mask. Did that hamper anything for you? I mean, is it hard to see?

It's not a typical thing for an Nemei Federer. Do you regret wearing that, or was that part of the gimmick you had to wear it? Well, back in the day, like, in Mexico, The Lucha Libre tradition is always to wear a mask. Yes. That's part of our culture and all about identity and the mysticism of who you are and your real identity. I love it.

So back then I was like really into that, believing in that and I wanted to protect that legacy and that identity. Of course, the Japanese, you know how the Japanese fans and the Japanese promoters are, they were loving it. So they were like, no, please wear the mask, wear the mask. Yes, it was really difficult. for me to see everything while I was wearing it, but I'm not going to use that as an excuse. Okay.

That night with Mirko, I wasn't ready because I wore the mask for several other fights, and I ended up winning in all of that fights with no problem. So that night, what it was is Mirko was too fast for me that night. There's an amazing, like when you watch the fight? When's the last time you watched it? I think I watched it only right after the fight. And I didn't watch it again. Wow.

There's nothing to watch. But it's amazing because he looks so young, and he, he looks. looks like a killer. You know, he's a very intimidating guy. Oh, that's when he was killing everybody. Yeah. Destroying everybody. And when they go to you, is it fair to say that you're a little bit afraid? Like, you seemed a little bit tense.

I was not. I was just like, I was trying to stick to the plan, you know. What was the plan? Got on my oppositive side, I tried to stay away from his left leg because that's what, that was his main one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was killing everybody with that left leg. And that was a plan.

You stay away. You're an amazing wrestler. You're 10,000 times better wrestler than him. If you take him down, That was the whole plan. If you can take him down, he's done. You're going to take him down, keep him down, and you're going to submit. Of course, unfortunately, that didn't happen.

Yeah. And again, I wasn't ready for that fight. That kick, for that kick was so fast. Yeah, yeah. I never saw it come in. I just remember myself, and that's all I remember from that fight, me thinking, okay, I'm going to go for the double leg. And then half a second after the kick was up here,

I couldn't stop it. And no one would blame you if you stopped fighting after that, but you didn't. You kept going. Yeah, yeah. It didn't deter you. I did one more fight because I, to me, I was embarrassed because I lost that fight. So I wanted to prove everybody how good I am. Unfortunately, I ended up to, I turned my LZ in that fight against that Camuda.

I was out for like, I don't know, six, seven months. It took me a while to come back into any sport, pro wrestling or MMA. Yeah. And once I was ready to fight, again, Pride called me, and they were offering me a different contract with less money than what I had before. And I was like, no, you know what? I mean, yes, I like fighting, but I'm doing it mostly because of the money. And if you're not going to pay me that money, I'd rather go back to pro wrestling.

Because the money you're offering me is the money I can do just doing pro wrestling shows. Right. Some have said, I've always wanted to ask you this, some have said that that fight was a work. Oh, no. Have you heard this? I have heard that so many times. And if he was like some of those douchebags who want to protect who they are or pretend to be tough, I will be saying, oh, yes, it was a work. They told me to lose that. Oh, no, it was a legit fight.

One more time, I just, I wasn't ready for him. He was too fast. And Marco and I, when we were training, we were like, we were 100% sure that I was going to be able to take him down and submit him on the ground. but I couldn't once I once I grabbed Mirko he was super strong I was I was bumbling with him and he did this weird movement

and he was out of my reach and then the kick happened it was not at work it was just again one more time any Japanese promoter ever asked you to throw a fight no never happened never happened and you would think one would ask you just because you were a pro wrestler they want to

they want to build up their guy here they are bringing it never happened well the reason why they were bringing pro wrestling in Japanese because they couldn't stand the fact that pro wrestling was getting more followers, more fans, selling more tickets than them. Okay. So in their mind was like, how in the hell this sport that is not real?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because for them, it's not real. For me, it's real, even though it's scripted and we know who's going to win and who's going to lose, we get hurt. Sure. For them, it was like, how in the hell this is a sport that is not real is selling more tickets than us? So this is our strategy.

We're going to kill all the stars. Yeah, yeah. And they were offering us so much money. that we all were saying yes, going there, fighting. And some of both did pretty well. Some others did horrible, as you know. Why don't you like him? What is it about Van der Leight that you do not like?

We just could never get it right. And I can't really remember where it started. I remember the first time I ever saw Vandale Silva. When was that? He walked into Randy Couture's gym. I was in there sparring. How long ago? No mouthpiece.

So I was getting ready to fight Paulo. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I don't remember when that was, but first or second? 2009, first or the second. But we fought a number of months apart. Right, right, right. Doesn't matter. I think it was 2009.

He came in, I was sparring, I had no mouthpiece. And when you're to, anytime you're sparring, you don't have a mouthpiece, not a good idea. Right. When you're at a new gym where you don't know the guys and you have no mouthpiece, you just shouldn't spar. But I was there, I had travel, I had to do the workout. And I told Vandalay, he came in, and that was Vandali Sylvie, you know, there's an aura about him, if you will. and I didn't know how his English was or my, so I just smiled real big and pointed to my mouth, and he said, okay. And so we sparred the round.

He never threw a punch at me. He took care of me the entire time. Let me throw my combinations on him. And then he even coached me a little bit. He said that I should be, after I punched to finish combinations with kicks, he was just a great guy. And he spars really hard. He's the last guy you want to go with without a mouthpiece. And I thought, well, what a great guy.

I had a good experience with him. A little bit later, he opened his gym. I happened to be in town, so I went down for the grand opening. Everything was fine. I had my Anderson fight, and I was doing some kind of a press tour with Vandalay. And we ended up in a van together, and we spent the whole day together, and he had his own videographer with him. And at some point, he queues the guy up, and he cuts like a promo on me, you know, tell me to watch my mouth and you do these things in Brazil and you lose your teeth. And he was doing this whole thing, and I just thought, Van der Leigh, this is really weird.

because first off you're telling me off, which is a little bit, that's rude. Second, we've spent the whole day together. Like, we're in a van, man. Are you trying to start a fight with me in a van after we spent the day? And third, you brought the camera man. Like, this is just, it's just weird. And, you know, so I got my ego too, you know, and I kind of admired the guy, but I got my ego too, so I had to push back.

And then, you know, he went crazy or whatever happened. And it's like, hey, well, then game on, man. You know, I appreciate you looking after me that one. one day, but if this is the way you want to go, I'm a fighter too. And so it all started there in that van. I think that was in Austin, Texas. Yeah, that's right. It was an Austin, Texas. Jen Wink was in the car. And I just thought it was, it was really inappropriate. It's like, Vandalee, I get if you're trying to make a name, you know, and I was on top, but hey, you've been on top too. You don't need to get a name

off of me. Man, you're still Vandali. Sylvia, you headlined some big cards, and you're going to keep headlining some cards. And I just thought it was a really weird thing to do, particularly that he brought the video guy. And then things just went bad to worse. You know, you're going back a number of years, but I remember we were on the set of the Ultimate Fighter in Brazil. And I was Prasona Nongrada in Brazil at that time. You're wiping your nose. Is that me? No, no, no. That's just me. Oh, your nose inches. Okay. I have a big nose. It gets a right. So that's your comment. So anyway, we ended up out there and he starts a street fight with me. And it's like, Vandalay, I'm by myself. I have nobody. And I'm the bad guy here. So if you come out and

you pick on me, you're going to humanize me, and you're going to humble me to the audience, which is going to make them like me, which is not what I'm here for. The script is written, man, I'm the bad guy, you be the white knight, you come save your country, and we'll go fight this out on pay-per-view. This is really obvious, but if you bully me while I'm alone, it's going to have the reverse effect. So first, now you've just lost my respect because now you're a dummy. You don't get it, which makes, if you don't understand the business, I can't respect you in this business. And then secondly, my wife was there. You start a fist fight with me, which I end up getting jumped. One of his cronies jumps me in front of my wife. It's like,

Vanda, I don't like you at all. But if you show up somewhere with your wife, we're doing it your way. You tell Chale to go stand in the corner with his pants and your wife's, I'm going to do it. I'm going to make you look good in front of your wife. I'm not going to start a fight. This is like Bro Code 101. And we don't have a bunch of honor, man. It's two thieves in this thing together. but my wife's there and you're going to start a fight with me, man, that was hard. Wow. I could see, like, you actually, that really pissed you off. It disappointed me more than anything because it goes back to what I told the beginning. When I very first saw the guy, he had like an oar around him, man.

It was like the first time I saw Hoyce Gracie in person. It was a big deal. I remember that moment. I'm a fan first. You know, now I'm a fighter and a commentary. I've got my place in this sport, but I started as a fan and that's how my career will end. I'm a fan. I admire these guys.

So you got a guy like Vandalay that's done everything that I'm trying to do. I'm trying at this point in my career when I meet him. I'm trying to get to where he is. And he's going to go and pull something like that. It's like, Van der Leigh, come on, man. I've been around him where his kids are there. The gig is up, man. Your kids are there, you win.

When's the last time you spoke to him? Was it at that press conference when you guys did the face-to-face with Havana? Yeah, 2014. You won't believe this. He's on the phone. He called in. The second? Right now.

Oh, what a way? I wouldn't believe that air. Ariel set that up. No, I wouldn't believe it. You think I have a way of calling Vanderlea Silva in the middle, listening to the show, heard the stories. You think I have that power? I think you do. I don't. I see a glimmer in your eye.

I'll stick to K-Fabe. Van Belaire you there? Vandlea, are you there? Vandlea, are you on the phone? I'm a friend. I hear everything. That's him. You talk to like, man.

You need to talk to child. He's talking like a loser, man. Man, I'm not their friend, man. You don't know that. You know we have some problems. And you come to say a lot of this story of the history. Fuck yourself, man. Let's do that.

Man, well, what are you talking about history? No, I'm fine, I'm sorry. Fuck yourself, man. I want to beat you very bad, man. At 24 June, you're going to have that time. Bye. Vandrele, are you still there? Can I ask you a question?

Yeah, yeah. This story that Chale just told about the brawl on the ultimate fighter, did you know that his wife was there? And if so, do you regret going through that with him? No, no, no, come to tell this sad history. All these. Not ever, man. Oh, yeah, man, he is a man.

I have two balls. He has two balls. Let's do that. No, no, no, no. No, no. No, no. No, have a reason to tell all this sad history. Right.

Man, let's do it. Let's do. Let's do. Make a job. Make a good fight. Make one of the biggest fights of the history. and I want to beat you so bad. Anything you want to say to Vanderle, Chale?

No, no. Can I ask you the same question, Van der Le, before you go, and I appreciate you calling in. I asked Chale, why do you dislike Vanderle? He told me, why do you dislike Chale? Man, we... Oh, we lost them. We are the top fighters in the world.

We're going to make one of the biggest fights of the history. One of the biggest, one of the most famous arenas in the world. in that day the Latour is going to be biggest than USC. We're going to make UFC, we're going to make the Latour's biggest than UFC in that day for the person. And a lot of times, but that day

we're going to make all of the biggest events in the world. And I wanted to tell just one thing for you, Charles. Let's go, stop to talk, and let's go train me because, man, you're going to bring trouble with me in June. Bye. Thank you, Vanderlea. Bye. Did you get that? I got that.

The message at the end? It took me a second there. Wow, how about that? I thought that, because I thought it was a voice. So I was waiting for him to pop up. Okay, what's Ariel pulling? That was Vandale. That was.

Well, you thought that whole thing was a rib. No, well, I actually thought it was V. I thought this guy's really good. Yes, I thought it was a rib, but I was waiting for his face to pop up. And when it didn't, I was like, oh, Ariel's pulling one. Vanillae's only been on the show once. I'm not a texting buddy with him. So how do you know it was him?

Same way I do. It sounded just like him? No, in my year. They told me, hey. Okay. Van Lade just called in. All right. How about that?

Pretty cool. That's something. That's something. I'm very happy for you. But you didn't want to talk to him. You know, I don't know what to say. I didn't know what to say that whole time. Are we doing a back and forth?

Like, we have a press conference tomorrow by example out here in New York. But he's not coming. He's not coming. He's not coming to the press conference. Why? This is another reason I thought that was a rib. He's on the list. He's not coming to the press conference.

So then I go from here to Chicago, Moe versus Rampage, lie free and only on Spike DeW. That's a show I heard. So I'm going out to Chicago for that, and we're going to do a face-off. Everybody that's on the paper view, everybody that will be at the press conference, will be, Vandalay's not coming. It's like, Van, what do you mean you're not coming? Who misses a press conference in New York City?

Who doesn't go live on Spike TV for some kind of a promo? But he's not coming. But here he is on the MMR. You pulled off what MSG and frankly what Spike, even Friday with Moe and Rampage. By the way, I didn't pull off anything. 9 p.m. 6 in the West. He listens to the show clearly, tunes in. He's on the show. You pull it up. How did I time it? How did I time it that we were just talking about him? And then there he is calling into the show. You're genius. Here's the thing. I'm not taking any credit. Here's the thing. Did you think you're taking the credit? No, no. I mean, look, the show is the show. It's a good platform. I mean, could Joel pull something like this up? Let's not get into that. Let's not get into Joel. I mean, you talk about a scrub of all scrubs. I mean, the job squad. Tell that guy to get my name out of his mouth. Do you ever look back at some of those fights, those strike force fights?

And now, I mean, I said this to our guy New York, Rick, before the show. It feels like finally Bellator is in that sort of strike force headspace again with the kinds of cards, the kinds of people you have on the roster. It took, I mean, you were hired by Bellator or Viacom almost three years ago now, 2014. You ever look back and be like, man, if I could just get like a maybe a rockhold here, a Cormier there, a Jacqueray there. Like if I just had a little bit of those guys, I'd be so much further along. Like is it almost sometimes at the beginning, like a bit like deflating, like, oh, I got to, it's like you build this championship team and then you have to build up an expansion team. Well, you know what? When I came into the company, it was June of 14.

And then if you recall, we had to go on the road right away and these 10-week shows in a row. So really, I think the first kind of like stamp I had of the show was like November 14. And so from that point forward, I would say that's kind of like the era that I took over because I once, I told. told him, I said, look, you have a good roster. It's not a great roster, but you have a good roster. And we have to build the new guys. We went inside Aaron Pico, we went, got a couple of the guys. Now, you know, the train is gone, man. We were sending guys like crazy, you know, all the new prospects, the Tarot Fortunes, Ed Rus, you know, the Dillans of the world. And then, but at that time, you know, it was really about grabbing a couple guys and let's

build these guys. Let's go back to the basics, star identification, star building, and let's create some stars. And then in the meantime, just like Strike Force, let's go buy some free agents, you know. Let's go by the guys that have the recognizable names. And Phil Davis was the first one that came over, and then Benson Henderson. And then the floodgates open. Yeah. And now, you know, we have a very, very good roster. And I'm really proud of what we've done because really I told, you know, Spike TV, I said, look, this is going to be, you know, four to five-year process to get to this point because it's not like it was back then

where pride was, you know, gone and then these guys were just floating around for me to start, you know, picking them up. So we're going to have to build some, we're going to buy some. And that's really been the philosophy of Strikeforce and it's the philosophy I brought here. And it's worth both, it's worked both times.

So I'm pretty proud of that. Is it happening quicker than you expected? I told Spike TV, I said, look, for us, you know, two and a half years into the process. It's about, we're about two years ahead of where I thought we would be. Wow. When I first, you know, came up. Really? And why do you think that is?

Boy, I tell you, it's a lot of things happen. The Reebok deal happens, right? All of a sudden, fighters are like, hey, I want, I want out of here. And then the company gets sold. Then fighters, like, I want to get out of here. Yeah. You know, and I don't even know, like, you started thinking, like, exactly, you know, how much that has affected, you know, the overall fighter.

like the fighter wants to get paid. He wants to be treated fairly. Treat with respect. And he wants to get paid to provide for his family and make a living. That's really what it comes down to. In a weird way, do you think that they have almost expedited this? Like, who could have saw this coming, right? Because you just mentioned three things or at least two things that were UFC things, not Bellator things.

Yeah. You mean as far as the... There is a theory, and I subscribe to it, that they expedited this turnaround for you guys in the sense that a lot of guys are like, hey, I want to get sponsors again. Maybe I don't want to check in with Usada 24-7-365. Maybe I feel like I'm not getting paid what I was worth when I see that the owner walked away with $4 billion. They expedited this. Yeah, I mean, you can say that.

And, you know, it's been good for us. You know, business has been very good and very happy because you get guys like Bader. You get guys like Gwerns-Larkin. You know, you get guys, you know, the legend fighters like Chale and Vandalay. I mean, that's something that, you know, when you look at like the fight, card in New York. We got two killer fights, and then we think the other fights will be killer, but we got two legend fights that everybody's going to want to see.

And so, you know, you need to have that, you know, roster to be able to do fights like that. Do you feel a lot of pressure, though, because we talk about the word free agency? There's not real free agency in MMA, because there's only really two places to go. Yeah, you mean, you can have the odd guy go to one. You could have the odd guy go to Ryzen. You could have the odd guy maybe go to World Series of Fighting, though they haven't really signed anyone of note.

there's really only a second place. Now, this is better than no places. Right. I mean, think about that. But it feels like every free agent is hoping that you'd give them a deal. Well, the thing is, is that, you know, there's a couple of leagues out there that could pick them up if they want to. Yeah. But they can't hang with you in the UFC. Well, I think that, you know, that, you know, I can't evaluate their business for how they run, right?

So I can only do what we can do. Sure. You know, and, you know, the... Do you feel pressure to pick up everyone? No. No. You are strategic. There has been other fighters that have been offered that we said,

We're not interested, you know, or we thought that the pricing was too aggressive or we just felt like, you know, it's value, you know, for what you're getting. You know, is the fighter worth this much money or is a fighter worth these terms? I mean, at the end of the day, it's just a business decision. And I don't want to say names because some of these guys are friends of mine. Sure, sure. There's been some, you know, big free agents, not free agents, but fighters that were on the way to become free agents that, you know, we decided, you know, we're not going to do it. I wasn't in a very good place at one point. I've been through a lot with my modeling career.

I've been a model for 15 years. And I actually went to Thailand as like an escape. I was like, I need some time out. I went to Thailand for an escape. And I actually ended up, a 10-day vacation ended up with me moving into a Thai training camp and staying there for nine months. Wow. So in a way, Maitai really helped me sort my life out, get over a whole bunch of issues

that I was going through at the time. It brought me sanity and peace of mind. And weirdly enough, it's like a great balance with what I do. Like, what I do is I live in an extremely egotistical, narcissistic world where I spend so much of my time thinking about how I look and getting criticized about how I look and judged. And what I found was the complete opposite of that. And that goes with all combat sports, I think.

I think when you step into a ring, you have to entirely leave your ego aside. You know, you can get your ass thrown around and get your ass handed to you all and you stand up and you shake your opponent's hand and you say, you know, thank you. You're better than me. Thank you. I learned a lot. And that was the perfect balance for me, you know, to not

have any ego at all. So I think my agency definitely saw that and clients definitely saw that and I'm so lucky that everybody supported what I do. Why were you in a bad place? What was going on? I mean, I've listen, I've been judged on my appearance day in and day out since the age of 13.

I've been through every eating disorder, body dysmorphic disorder on the planet that you could ever imagine. I mean, anorexia, bulimia, addiction to duretics, laxatives, anything, you name it, fully body dysmorphic. I would look in the mirror and see a fat person. I grew up obese and overweight and bullied. I halved my weight. So I've lived on both extremes. I've been a size 14. I've been a size zero.

And just day in and day out and feeling guilty every time you eat something and being criticized on every tiny part of your body. And I just had enough. And I moved to New York. And, you know, I thought I was doing well. And I have amazing clients like Sports Illustrated. And I just kept, it was just too much. I just, I had too much.

And I was being asked ridiculous things, you know, to go on like 10-day liquid-only diets before shoots and things like that. That was just so unhealthy. And I just wanted to go to Thailand and be in the sun and, you know, and yeah, Wai Thai and living in a training camp and going through all that. I mean, it taught me to respect my body. It brought me out of everything that I was going through. even basic things like eating three meals a day, you know, that I learned how to do that. And, you know, I found strength in my body that I never knew I had. I saw things in my body that,

you know, like I had a six-pack at one point. I never in my life did I ever think that I was going to have a six-pack. Like, it really gave me my self-confidence and really like helped me rid of a lot of insecurities that were weighing me down. my whole life. Wow. Do you almost wish you found this earlier? Like things would have been easier? A hundred percent. Like as a teenager? A hundred percent. Really? Yeah. When you were considering coming back, a lot of people said there's not really much for him to do that's new in the sport, except, of course, fighting the UFC, you're the greatest fighter to never fight in the UFC. Is there any part of you that says, you know, that would have been nice? Maybe that ship has sailed. Do you ever think about that one time seeing what it was like fighting for the UFC? Do you ever think of it? No, it's. No, it's

When we made it on their decision and to return and many people said, well, in the probably nothing, nothing new,

that we can see if Fy if it's a would be in UFSI, what it's really interesting. And you, you somehow, about it,

and you, have been the possibility to be UFC? Yeah, if U.S. if U.S. had,

I, I'd be could be able to be able to be able to be able to fight in UFC. If U.

U.S. you wanted me to get in, we could have performed there. I think they wanted you. They wanted you. Ah, they wanted you? Well, we didn't come to the agreement. Right. When were you closest?

When was he closest with the U.S.C? Because we know about this meeting that I think was in 2010. When was the same close moment, when you were practically close to UFC, we know about the people who were in 2010,

there were the other years. Then, I don't know, I guess, what about me, I'm, I never

never never never, we never were done to talk if we with Scott metedly, we've

talked, and then he sent him sent him sent him sent him our perigalor

and we were and we were so there's so it's very difficult

to say you know it was always something which wouldn't work out you know

just going back and forth if for example speaking about Scott Cocker you know

we met together you know we discussed a lot of issues you know we negotiated we agreed

then he sent me the contract everything was this you know just exactly and you know

the contract was as for UFC, always something would be... Would pop up. Yeah. Right. Is it fair to say that that dream is dead, that at this point you will never fight for them

because you're happy with Scott and you're at this kind of stage of your career where it doesn't seem likely that you would ever go there at this point? Can you now say that, maybe, project with UFC already never never never never never never never never never never never be able to be. Because now, you're in contract with Scott. you're very and

happy and with your position. So, is it can't say, that's

I've been I'm not I'm never to the boys who are the abbreviation

UFC starts fall to fall to fall back. Well, I cannot

refer myself to the fighters who have very exaggerated and excited reaction hearing the

words of the UFC. I'm not I'm not a difference in the U.S.C. or in Pride or Strike Force. There is... Now, in Belatorre, I'm

it, I guess, it's important with whom to be with whom beats. For me, there was always no difference where to perform in which organization. Would it be the UFC or the Pride or the Strike Force

or Bellator? The main thing is who is your opponent? Well, and And, of course, to the relationship,

which are in the organization or, there's people of the organization. And also,

you have to have good relationship and preserve that good relationship with people who work in

the organization. A boyce, he's, he's, he's, he has been many issues,

very many many, and an agromed it's not a toilet book that's used to use

for the national so the fighter is the fighter and he deals with a lot of things

he goes through a lot of tests you know his load is a huge one it's not the

toilet paper which you can use just for one certain purpose I've been with many the soldiers

I've been the US you know against different who were, you know, best fighters in the UFC. You may have heard that Tim Hague, the former UFC fighter, passed away, right? I'm really upset by that, man.

I actually tried to, yeah. Boxing match, yeah. Complications, injuries, brain. And yesterday it was reported. We have the information on our site if you want to read about it. How do you react to that? I mean, this is a guy, you never fought Tim Hague, but you were kind of. I did fight Tim Hague.

You did fight. He was my fourth fight. Of course. Of course. I did fight for the troops. Yes. The picture they put up of him flexing is at the pipe picture. Yes.

How do you react to this? I have a lot on my mind about that. I texted his number afterwards. And I'll tell you what I said just because it really threw me off. And the person who has his number now responded. When's the last time you spoke to him? Maybe a year ago. Oh, so you kept in touch?

Yeah, for sure. Tim and I were cool. Okay. What did you text? Hey, it's Matt Mitrione. I know writing Tim now is in bad taste, and I don't really know what to say, do, or who to contact. And this can get out to his people. I'd really appreciate it.

I'm so sorry about how things turned out. Please let me know what I can do. I fight this weekend. It really has me thrown off. What about Tim's son? I don't know if Canada has universal life insurance as well. Please, if anybody reads this, please let me know how I can help. And the person who wrote like,

hey, it's not Tim's number, man, but I hope you find it. And I was like, all right, well. And they said, how's Tim doing? Well, he died. You know, like, it sucks, man. It's, you know, and I heard about a post he made on Facebook about, like, he just wants to get some money so we can have a great father's job at this kid. You know, like, it sucks, man.

There's no easy way to sugarcoat it. It's a horrible situation. I know how proud he was of his son. I know how proud he was. be a father. He was a really good dude. And I mean, it just sucks, dude. Like, I freely make the comment that we deserve to get paid as well as we did command or should be paid because we take the chance of never leaving that cage the same ever again every time we walk in it. And this is exactly the scenario I'm talking about. Whether you, God forbid, you die from a

situation like this or you lose use of something because of an impact or an injury or whatever the situation is. We deserve to have financial security for something like that. We deserve that if you ever fought in the UFC and something like this happens, that there needs to be some kind of life insurance that's put into it. This should be a massive call for unionization. Like, hey, look, what the hell's going to happen with Tim? What's going to happen with this 10-year-old son? or I have no idea how old he is. I think he's around 10, 11, something like that. Like, what's going to happen with him?

Is he nowadays stuck like Chuck? Oh, Tim had a mortgage in this. Oh, by the way, you guys owe this much money or that we're going to take this away? Is that what's going to happen now? Like, what do you do? It just sucks, man. It's horrible.

Unequivocally, this is the biggest fight of your life coming up. And now you hear this news and it's a friend. And I know it's not MMA. It was a boxing match. But, you know, in this case, it's all the same. How do you react to that? that. Like, you know, because I'll, I didn't know Tim personally. I've met him and interviewed him, but not like you. To me, when you hear this, you're like, what are we doing? You know,

there's a part of you that says that, right? Like, this is kind of crazy. How do you react to it? You know, man, it's hard. It's a very, very difficult thing. Like, maybe if I didn't fight him, I'd be like, damn, that sucks, man. But like, now that I fought him, I knew him. Yeah. You know, I'm on Father's Day. Like there's a lot that sucks about it. But how do you fight, man? I mean, it's my job.

Yeah. I do, man. Like, I could be, I could clean windows on a building. You know what I mean? I could, God knows. So you didn't have a moment where you were like, God willing. Yes.

God's will. God's will. You don't have a moment where you were like, screw this? No. No. No, this is my paycheck. This is what I do. I have a commitment.

Fador has worked his butt off several times now to fight me. I've worked my butt off several times. He testified him now. Longtime viewers of this show will know about my friend Adam Geller, who passed away. And you invited his wife to the event. And I saw her not only at the Waynes, but the event as well. So it says a lot about you that you would reach out to her and give her great seats. Kudos to you.

That was really, that was really, I never met her in person. And I felt like I knew her because he talked so much about her. So it really, it was something. And that's exactly what it was. You know what Adam was like, you know, he was one of our teammates at Showtime. And he and I became friendly. And when he showed me his wedding. video. Yes, on his YouTube. And it was

the girl from Pride. Lenny Hart. Lenny Hart. Yeah. And she's doing the intros, like fighter intros, and here comes the girl as men, and the bridesmaids. I said, this girl is special. You know, think about that. How many people, how many girls would our family would allow her? So she allowed it. And so I never

got to meet her either. This is the first time I met her. So when, you know, Adam passed, as you know, and I saw him probably seven months before he came up the morning and son came to a fight. We were talking and he just seen in great spirit is always happy and had a baby and and then you know he passed really fast and you know it was it was truly shocking and devastating and i said to myself you know what i'm going to reach out to deborah and we're we're going to continue this link you know this thing's not

going to die and um you know i look forward to invite her to more fights to spending time and just getting to know her like like i knew adam how do you put it to words how you're feeling right now i don't know it's it's weird because you think about you think about your own own emotions or you think about your own interpretation of the situation, but there's doctors involved, there's referees involved, there's the big stage, there's the fans on Twitter, there's the media, there's everybody's different perspective. So you don't really know exactly how to take it. Because every now and then you hop on Twitter and be like, I never thought about that perspective or you hop on, you know, or listen to something that you say. Like, I didn't think about that

perspective either, you know. So it's interesting, man. It's just one of those things. It was a freak freak deal. I mean, a freak accident type of, I mean, I was out there and I was like a lame duck, if you will, you know, and Brent Prima still couldn't really finish me. Honestly, he didn't even lay a leather on me. Okay. So the ref stopped the fight, you know, because of the end, the severity of how bad the injury looked. When does it start? He kicks you? No, when I'd stepped back and rolled my ankle. Okay. And it rolled underneath me and bent seven ways to Sunday. Wow. I think I did, I stretched it and stretched it so bad that it jacked up the nerve and I have zero nerve function. And I had zero nerve function in my left leg.

Okay. So, the knee down basically. Did you feel it right away? I felt it as I got up and started hopping around and you see me hop and hop and hop, but it was more on my heels than on my toes because I literally, my brain was telling me to take a step, but my foot can't do this, if that makes sense. Right now? Dorsiflection. No. Okay.

My foot cannot go like this. So I can walk. I have, you know, it's sprained ankle, obviously, by everybody who saw the replay. Yeah. But you didn't break anything? No broken. Wow. Broken bones.

Did you think? Oh, you heard me. I said, I looked at three doctors in the eye and said, this thing better be broken. If you were going to stop this fight in front of all these people with all the hard work that I've put in, with all that's on the line, that belt on the line, this thing better be broken. Now, I sit here. after 24 hours to kind of cool off, 48 hours to cool off, I'm very happy that I'm able to walk in here

on my own two legs and have a jacked up leg. But nothing's broken, man. I went straight to the ER, the people at Doctors at Bellevue ER, man, I got in, they x-rayed it. Nothing broken. So that's a good thing. You know, I could be insert,

just getting out of surgery right now with a rod in my leg, and luckily it's not. I mean, it looks extremely, it looks extremely gruesome. And I've had tons of support. I mean, so many text messages, so many people on Twitter and Instagram, Facebook, like, reach out. And there's so many people that have been behind me and supportive and worried about my broken ankle. And thank God it's not broken.

So for everybody, it's not broken, everything is good. I will be back in the bell toer cage and I will have that belt wrapped around my waist before I even lose the tan lines that were left there from the time I had two days ago. So do you think the doctors made the wrong call? man what do you do you know i mean if you lined up a hundred people right now and said hey watch this clip yeah is that man right there fit to fight right 90 90% of them would say no you know i mean he was stumbling all over the place now now you look at it from the competitor's standpoint or you look at it from your shoes where you've seen a million fights or maybe if it was big john McCarthy in there or maybe if it was Dan Murglead or a different ref, maybe they would have

saw and interpreted it a different. I mean, literally, the unfortunate part of the situation was that ref called for the doctors to come into the cage 15 seconds after I just dropped him. Yes. On one leg. Yes. So that's where the hard part comes in because I was standing there. I said, come on, take it, break it. I look about the eyes and I said, take it, break it, you know, kick it. Let's do it. If you're gonna do it, do it, you know. Five seconds later, he was on his butt on the canvas. I was the only man to land a punch in that fight, and I put him on his butt.

So 15 seconds later, the fight is stopped. So that's the unfortunate part. I think, honestly, I had a beat on him. I got my distance. I realized the left leg was not working, but the right hand was cocked and it was ready to go. And I would have finished him. If this was the 18th century

and I was in the middle of the field, and it was me and Brent Primus and I had one leg to stand on, and we're fighting to the death, I win that fight 100 times out of 100. The fascinating thing here is? That's the funny thing. I feel like the intensity right now coming off of you. I feel like you're still fired up. I'm still the champion.

Let's be honest. An injury took me out of that fight. Brent Premis can wear his Hugh Hefner jacket and throw that fake belt around his shoulder. I told Scott Carter, I talked to him on the way here. I said book the fight. Let's do it. Later this summer or later this fall.

It's a foregone conclusion. My leg is, my leg is I don't want to say unfortunately. Fortunately, my leg is fine, but it's just crazy to be standing in here. It's crazy to have been able to go shopping with my wife today, hobbling around a little bit, but walking around New York City,

but 48 hours ago, my leg wouldn't function. You know? No crutches needed, or are you just that damn tough? I mean, it's a little bit of both, maybe. You know, they said I needed crutches, but I also had my doctor there. He's an orthopedic surgeon, Sanford Medical in Sioux Falls.

So he was there. You brought your own doctor? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah, he wrote in the ambulance with him. Wow. So he, and that's the crazy thing. Ten minutes after the fight end, we went back there, and he said, Michael, I don't want to tell you this, but I don't think, I want to tell you this, but I don't want to tell you this.

You don't have a broken leg. Your leg is not broken. Your ankle's not broken. This test, this test, and this test are all negative. I think what you have is nerve damage. And it's that perennial nerve that runs up the side of your leg that is in charge of your brain, firing the neurons, straight down to your leg to say, lift your foot, it's just not working. And that's a hard pill to swallow. I was back there. It was me and my wife back there. And I had some choice words for the doctors because I was like, do you realize

what you just did? The New York doctors. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I love, New York is a cool city, but I don't want to fight here ever again. I just, it's, it's a little bit, it's a little bit amateur hour, man. Like, it's, it's different. MMA, they, they don't know what they're doing when it comes to MMA as much as they should, you know. What do you mean? just everything you know it's i mean how many fights have we had new york now five yeah something like that two o five world series one you something like that we've had what five five cards and every single one of them have some pretty crazy controversy on them or something weird going on now granted like i said if you lined up 10 people nine of them would say he wasn't fit to fight somebody get him out of there so

you can't but it's just they're over cautious because of stuff that's going on i guess and they will always cover in their butts but man it's when there's money on the line when there's people when there's legacy on the line, when there's records on the line, when there's contracts on the line, when there's all this stuff on the line, I know that the doctors and the ref and everybody involved did the best that they could

with the information they were given, so I'm not mad, I'm not upset, it's just one of the things, and man, I'm still the champion. I'm brushed my teeth this morning and looked in the mirror and said, Michael Chandler, you're still the best in the dang world, and that's the truth,

and that's what it is, and that's how it's going to be, and that's how it's gonna continue forward. I'm gonna get the leg looked at by a nerve specialist this week and get an MRI and make sure the ankle ligaments and all that kind of stuff for good. But chances are, it's all going to say it's checked out. And in two weeks, I'm going to be ready to go. So, like, are you in pain right now? Pain's a relative term. Okay. But, I mean, it's, I mean, a crying. It's, I mean, a little bit, but I mean, it's more uncomfortable. It's, it's more literally

just looking down at your leg. You know, I've been, like, I've been so blessed, man. Like, my body, my body is so durable. My bones. don't break. And that's, that was the problem. Like if, if, if the doctors and the refs knew my history and the things that I put my body through, I would, I could tell them with full certainty, guys, my leg is not broken. Let me keep fighting. My leg is not broken, you know, my bones don't break. I just had a Dexa scan. If you don't know what that is, it's a $25,000 machine where you lay down completely still and they, it zzz over top of you and get your body fat, your bone density, all your water, all that kind of stuff. I have, I'm in like the 99,

0.8% percent tile on bone density. Wow. You know, so I knew the bones weren't broken, but back to what I was saying, like I've been just so extremely blessed with such a well-enabled body to be able to, yes, it's a lot of hard work, and I put a lot of hard work in,

and I take care of my body, and I live a discipline life, so my body, I expect my body to perform accordingly. So to have this body that's been firing on all cylinders for last 31 years, to look down on my leg and look at it and my brain is telling my foot to go up and it won't. It's a scary thing. But I got some of the brightest minds in medicine in my corner and we already talked about it.

And they said two weeks from now, after a little bit of rehab, your foot's, your leg's going to be 100% ready to go. You can fight in a month. So what I saw was you're obviously hurt. You're, I mean, unbelievably tough, like unfathomably tough. You continue to go. You drop him. You're telling, I saw. I even asked Brent this question at the press conference.

Like I saw you say to him, hit me, take it off, break it off. And that was just absurd to watch. I have so much more respect for you. And that wasn't even possible. But I mean, it's just your heart was unbelievable, what you showed. And then I see you go, they call time, you go into the corner, they're talking to you, you get up, you go back to sit down, and someone moves the stool. And then they call it off.

And I thought that they thought you couldn't stand. I hope that's not what it was, because that would be. one of the weirdest, most unfortunate things. Who moved that stool? That was a commission guy, right? Yeah, I know his name, but I'm not going to say it. How'd you find out? He's an awesome guy.

I love the guy. He doesn't work in your corner. No, no, absolutely. He's a New York guy? Yeah, he was my guy. So is he a Belator guy? No, he was a New York, once again. Okay.

New York, athletic commission. He was the guy. He walks in, hi, I'm so-and-so, I will be your commission. You have a commissioner with you the whole way through. You can't take a pee. You can't walk to the bathroom. You can't walk out. can't eat anything, you can't drink anything, you can't do anything without,

with them watching, they watch you get your hands wrapped, they watch you put on your gloves, they watch you tape up your gloves, they watch you put on your out. That's common in every state though, right? Common in every state, though, right? Yeah, yeah, but that's just, so that's your guy. So he, he walks out with you. Okay. He's basically in charge to making sure I don't get myself in trouble. He's in charge of the drug test, he's in charge of all that. He is basically in my pocket the whole way to make sure I don't do anything. So whenever the fight got stopped, time out, postpone, which I was going to ask you, I don't even know if that's even legal,

if that's even supposed to happen. But we're sitting there. He had to come into the cage because he's my guy. He's in charge of everything, Michael Chandler, that whole event. So he put the, I guess he brought the stool up because my cornerman aren't allowed to come in. He put the stool down. I stand up. I guess for some reason, he thought we were going to continue. He pulls a stole out and it's gone viral. It's made the chive. It's made. It's, it's got millions and millions and millions of views at my expense. Yeah. Does it drive you nuts? No, I mean, I was laughing at it. You're laughing. Literally, the night of the fight, I'm sitting there. I mean, people are ruthless. You guys are freaking ruthless. The human race is ruthless, okay? You just had a man go out there and

millions and millions of people walking around like a baby deer that just got birthed into a field and walking around on the skanky leg, stanky leg, whatever you want to call it. And there's people posting these videos of that runway model with her ankles and like posting the video of me getting, you know, dropped on my butt on the, on the stool. It's not funny. It's not, but what are you going to do? I mean, people, people, people love to make fun of people. I saw some media guys tweet. I'm like, this is not funny. Yeah, it's, it's not, it looks bad on the sport, honestly. I could care less. You could last me all you want. I love myself and, and I have enough, you know, enough self-esteem to say, hey,

stuff happens. That's pretty darn funny actually. But it's bad for the sport. It looks really bad. I mean, it made ESPN or something, I think, on ESPN.com. Like, but here's the question. Did they stop the fight because you fell in your butt? Because that's what I gathered when I saw that. It happened at the, it happened at the exact same time. When they called it off, right? Yeah. So I think I fell, looked up like, hey, dude, what did you just do in front of all these people? You know, right now? Did someone help you up? No, I got right back. I mean, I did a one-legged squat, basically, or pistol squat, you know. What were they saying to you in the corner? Like how did they determine that you could not fight anymore?

They were, you know, they're doctors and there was two or three of them there. And he was, so I basically have, I basically have this, I have this thing right here. See this little. Yeah. So there's a hole in my leg right here that I always had. Oh, okay. And it's like, it's a hole in my sheath. You know, as you can see, I have like a couple of them.

But it's just what happens when you have like, people with leaner legs, they pop out, whatever. Oh. Sorry. I don't know if that's, no problem. Sanitary. Yeah, that's fine. So I felt him sticking his finger in that hole and he's like, he looks up to the doctor and he's like, I think he has a tibia fracture. And I'm like, I was like, sir, that's not a tibia fracture.

It's fine. My leg is just cramping. It's fine. You know, I like made something up. You know, I got kicked in it or it's just sore, you know, whatever. I was just like, just don't stop the fight. I'm fine. Let's go. Let's do this thing. Hop on out. You know, we'll talk about it later. Let me do my job. But yeah, I mean, they were just, they were doing it and they were testing it, you know. Obviously, I didn't have a ton of strength. it, you know, and here I am, dude.

16, and now I got another loss on my record, and I'm not the champion anymore, allegedly, but I still got the belt at home. You were jumping up and down. I was. That was crazy. I couldn't believe it. You were like, let's go. You wanted to go right then and there.

Yeah, well, and the other thing, too, was, you know, Primus acting, you know, screaming and acting like he just did something and say, hey, buddy, you didn't do anything. You know, one punch got landed in that fight. You had a man. We're seeing some highlights right here. Yeah. You had a man completely debilitated and all you could do was try to play kick the leg.

And there you go, get sat to your butt. What is going on in your mind when you do that, when you drop him on one foot? Well, unfortunately, I wish I would have just said, okay, just stand here and let him keep coming back to you because I had the beat on him. Like when I get your range and I get your timing and I get your movement and I see your tendencies and your habits there and it all unfolds in front of my eyes, I've been in. in the sport long enough to know right where I'm right know right where I'm going to punch and when I'm going to punch and I had it. It was there and that's the unfortunate part too is I promise

you I was about to have one of the greatest comebacks in MMA history and I would have knocked Brent Premis out on one leg. I should have went karate kid honestly because that would have made like you would have gone down in MMA lore I mean I would have retired right there. No I don't know about that we wouldn't have let you retire but like Isaiah

Thomas in the 1988 NBA finals played the fourth quarter on one leg like this was even more impressive what you did. You were you were landing punches, you were dropping a guy. And it was clear you were a wounded animal. And I just couldn't believe it when you dropped him. It was a sight to see. And then I remember, because I was sitting cage side.

Usually I'm not sitting cage side. And just seeing the look of disgust and disappointment on your face. You yelled something out. What did he say to you? And what did you say back to him? We just saw a moment where you guys sort of embraced after he got the belt. Do you remember? I mean, I think he was probably respectful, like, you know, thank you for the opportunity or something like that.

Which that's fine, you know. And I just, because at the end of the day, day, it doesn't matter. You can, you can, I have a lot, I have respect for anybody who steps in this cage and does what we do, man. I mean, we're only 0.000, 0.001% of the human race does what we do. And it's, and it's one of the most gruesome, toughest emotional roller coaster rides of all time. So I have a ton of respect for every single person that steps in that cage. So, no matter what, it wasn't Brent Premis's fault that I rolled my ankle, lost complete function of the lower half of my left leg. And, you know, so I said, you know, congratulations. But let's be honest, man.

you know hold on to the belt and enjoy it take your take a ton of pictures take as many pictures you can so you can talk about that that you know 90 days that you were bellatory champion um afterwards he's saying like don't essentially he's saying don't talk to me about flukes and things like that i did this you know i that's the point of the game i caused damage i won as a result of the damage i inflicted to that you say hogwash i mean you did it to yourself is what you're saying Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, he basically did no damage. It wasn't a kick, because he said he practiced that, to go attack your leg, this is what they set out to do. He practiced the leg kicks.

That's what he said. Congratulations, you're a mixed martial artist. I've had my left leg kicked to 78 million times in the last eight years, you know, and nothing like this has ever happened. You know, so it was, it's crazy, man. It's a crazy sport, and it's you're tied onto a tornado inside of a cage, and that's really, what happened and you know i mean let him let him say what he wants let him think what he wants i mean this is this is the fight game this these kinds of things happen and i don't want i don't want sympathy i don't want you know i like i appreciate i appreciate all the kind words but i signed up for

this you know i i i wake up every single morning excited about the opportunity to be able to brave the unknown and the virtual certainty of of being let down at some point and having having things like this happen. Good. Things like this are going to happen and I'm going to come back and it's going to be part of the story. You know, and it's going to be part of the journey.

It's going to be part of the legacy. You know, and you look at my record and you think about the losses that I have that arguably should have been wins in a lot of people's eyes. You know, you look at the injury. And it's just like, it's a crazy, crazy sport. And at the end of the day,

you just do what you can with what you've been given and people can see how I can conduct myself after the fight. And people can see how, how I can conduct myself. It's another opportunity to conduct myself how I want to conduct myself and how I believe that I should conduct myself in this situation and dust myself off. And months from now, I'm going to have the belt wrap back around my waist. And hopefully this doesn't tarnish my, you know, my standing in the world rankings. I don't see how it could. I mean, you know, you're going to drop me out of the top 10 because I rolled my ankle and couldn't fight. Do you get the sense,

though, that your stock has gone up? Like, you have more fans now? I've gotten some phone calls from some very important people saying, you know, saying, tell us any names? I mean, just, I mean, Spike has reached out. Wow. Like, not just, they love you. The highest of the highs at Spike had called me and said, I mean, I was in the cage for two minutes and 22 seconds at Madison Square Garden. Two minutes and ten seconds of that two minutes of 22, I was wobbling around

on one leg and I still got the greatest cheers. Vanderlai Silva, Chale, Sondon, Matt Mitreone, Faderlo Limele-Necho, Michael Chandler stole the show and lost it. the fight. Showed people what a true fighter is and what determination looks like and what biting down in your mouthpiece and going on in your field looks like. I stole the show at Madison Square Garden. And that's awesome to hear from people.

And that's awesome. It is a stock thing because at the end of the day, I'm not in this sport for the glitz and the glam and the money and the lights and this. I'm in this sport to be a shining light and to be put on a platform for people to say, man, if Michael Chandler can hobble around for two minutes and say, come on, kick it. break it, break it. Maybe they could wake up the next day and say, well, you know what, life, you just dealt me this card? Go ahead, do it. This is fine. I'm going to come back from this. I'm going to overcome this. You know, like, it's a metaphor for life. That fight was a metaphor for

life. And I get to live it. And I get the opportunity, I get the opportunity to live it day in and day out. And these things are going to keep happening. That's why I say, I don't want, I don't want the sympathy. And I don't want the, you know, it's awesome to feel the love. And it's awesome to get the phone calls. And it's awesome to see my Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and all that stuff grow and all the awesome comments from so many beautiful people. But it's what I signed up for. I am a vessel that was put on this earth to be a shining light for times like this. You know, and it's just, it's part of it.

And at the end of the day, if they give me the instant rematch, which I hope they do, I'm going to be championing. And if they don't, I'm going to go through the next five guys to get back to it. And I'm going to continue my, continue knocking, knocking them down as they put them in front of me. And that's what I'm going to do. I'm a fighter. too. There's the only sport that we watched as a family. I never was into football, baseball really. We didn't watch anything other than hockey because my dad was the hockey coach

and me and my brother were on the team and we had, we won the championship like every single year. Wow. Wow. And so after I, so I had stopped playing hockey in like six, sixth grade, but I had broken records and I was really, really good. I was a center hockey player. Had that speed. I was always the fastest. I was, I was, always the fastest. had a good slap shot, my wrist shot was accurate. And that was, I was gonna be on the Islanders, that was the goal. Like, I actually remember in like sixth grade,

we had a right to ourselves and you get it in 12th grade, what you wanna do when you get older. And I was, I had wrote, being an actual hockey player and play for the New York Islanders. Wow. And so life goes on, I become a wrestler, I go to Naskin Meade College, which happens to be right next to Nasker Meade College,

and then I mean, that's the Coliseum, and then I went to Hofsch University, wrestled, became a grad assistant there, continue to wrestle for the Olympic trials, got injured, and then I was kind of at a crossroads. Do I start dabbling with the MMA and getting into that, which I kind of felt might have been a good place for me. I felt like I was kind of meant for it.

Or hockey was something where, you know, it was something I kind of always regretted that I had to stop. And I had learned so much from wrestling as far as like the mental attitude you need to be successful, the work ethic you need. And athletically, I felt like I felt like, I was pretty damn athletic and I could pick up something and do it. And I was already so good at hockey when I was younger that I felt like he could do it.

So I was living in my parents' basement at the time and we had my daughter. We were dead broke. So it was a stupid move, but I went to the bank and I took out of credit card for like a $1,000 limit. Somehow they let me do it. And I had gone down to the hockey store. And if you watch Mighty Ducks, I felt like I was in Mighty Ducks. I think Gordon Bombay let the whole team get to pick out like the course. cool equipment and in my eyes I was trying off the Islanders and I really believed I was

gonna be able to do it so I got like how to get nice stuff so I spent about a thousand dollars on this hockey equipment what and I was yeah and I was like here we go and so I went down to the hockey rink and they had a bunch of high school kids playing so I kind of like jumped in and I and I'm on my skates and I'm like and I when I tell you I was like really good that's the only reason I'm not like crazy I really okay was that good when I was young and so I figured I was be able to pick it up just like right in a bike. So I get on the skates and I'm like, I'm skating and I'm just like, whatever. So we get into the, we get into the hockey game with these high school kids. I'm in there with them. And they just,

they're running circles around me. I'm now the slowest on the ice. My accuracy sucks. I'm like, having trouble really even everything, my slap shot, everything was off. My slap shot sucked. I was no longer the person that I thought I was in hockey. So my dream for the New York Islanders was over. How long did it take for you to realize this? Was it like five minutes in? I was definitely prepared mentally that I wasn't going to be as good as I was, of course, as I remember being when I was young. But I was going to keep working on it.

And I was going to figure out a way to make the Islanders and been to NHL. And, you know, at the time, I had met some Islanders and stuff like that. And I'm around them. And I'm like, these guys. And what makes them better than me? Yeah. I could do this. Yeah, they're like smaller than me.

You know, so I'm like, this is what I'm going to do. but I realized that right away. First go I had to, I was like, I can't do this. And then you quit? I quit. Wow. What did you do with the equipment? I actually tried to return it.

They wouldn't let me return it. So it's still floating around my garage. My wife was not happy. How did you explain to your wife? You guys are broke and that you went to to buy a house? She wasn't happy, man. She wasn't happy. It was in a weird spot.

You know, my wife at that time was getting her CPA license. She had, she was number one in her class. He's very disciplined and dedicated to being successful. And me, I was like the kid who was looking for these different dreams. You know, I was, she was pushing me to get my master's degree. I was never that kid who was, like, studious and focused on school. But I had a wife that really pushed me to have that as a backup plan. So she was pushing me to do all that stuff.

But I was kind of scatterbrained and trying to do these other things. And it was, it was tough because she was, making all the money at the time. You know, I was kind of just the guy sucking off the teat. Wow. And that was a tough time. I remember going to her like accounting parties and I had started fighting at this point and all these, all these wives that were there with their husbands and the other, the husbands with their wives who are stay-at-home moms. You know, they have good jobs. My wife was working at the Pricewaterhouse Cooper, which is known as one of like the number one accounting firms in the world. And I remember being there and these, these accountants,

Something's coming up to my wife and me and ask me, oh, what do you do for a living? And I'm like, I'm a fighter. They're like, oh yeah, that's cool. And that's it, you're a fighter? Well, I'm getting my master's in physical education. Oh, good for you, man, good for you. And I'm like embarrassed.

Like these guys are making over six figures. And I was like two and now at a broken hand at that point. And they would ask me how many fights you got. I'm like, I have two fights. And it was just like, they're looking at her. Like, what are you doing with this guy? Yeah, yeah. Come home to daddy.

We could take care of you a little. wine mama you're the dead weight i was the dead weight for a while so that was all all this type of stuff is motivating and and i think it's all good for other people to hear because screw everybody don't don't don't hold you down do you ever think about what happens if you don't catch on if you get some kind of injury and you don't become a fighter what would you have done well i had the fizzet thing you know i had a gym teacher i guess i would a physical educator sorry i could have done that tucked in shirt i was reluctant to do that i had my i got my master's it but I didn't love the process when I became a, because you have to do a student, you have to do

student teaching, so you actually have to, you know, do the job and go to high school and elementary schools and do that. And I went through that process and it was, it was real tough for me. I hated doing the lesson plans and all that stuff and having a boss and having these kids talk to you in certain ways where you just have to deal with it. And, you know, even as a coach, you could kind of like talk to a kid in a certain way where you were going to get respect from them. But when you're a teacher, these kids kind of like, F you. And I didn't, you know, deal with some of that stuff and I came from like a tough town and I always like if I'm going to respect you you respect me and this is the way it was and I was working like in a rich kid town

and these kids would just disrespect me it was very tough till it was a tough pill swallow I actually had like a little we had like a little uh I had a little issue with one of these kids well what happened um no I didn't smack them but so my the guy who I was working with is a phys ed teacher he knew I was like a good wrestler in college and stuff like that and I just had started doing MMA. And there was one kid in high school who was like Mr. Like bully. Mr. like he thought he was such a thug and it killed me because he was just like goes to his rich kid's school and he thinks he's such a thug and I just couldn't stand them. And one time we're all in the gym and not a lot of teachers were there. I was kind of on my own and there was like 50 or maybe 60

kids in the gym, which is a lot for one teacher, especially a guy like me who they're not going to respect because I'm not a real teacher. So I'm in there. And the kids, it was time to quiet them down and get them all lined up. And one of the kids, that thug kid, he had a basketball and he's dribbling it. I'm like, all right, bowl's in. Come on, give me the ball. He's like, no, I'm good. And he kept dribbling it.

Oh. And I'm like, hey, I said, come on, bowl in. Let's go. Give me the ball. He's like, no, I'm good, buddy. And he just kept dribbling it. And the kids are like, ooh. And I'm like, so I walk over to him.

Hey, give me the ball. He goes, no, I'm good. Dribling it. Oh, man. I'm like, bro, give me the ball. So now he picks it up, he's holding her in front of me. So I go to, like, grab it out nicely. So I'm just going to take it from him.

I'm hoping that he's just going to let me take it from. He rips it out of my hand. But it kind of looked like I struggled a little bit to pull. So he rips it out. So now this guy thinks he, like, kind of, you know, he's tougher than me, you know? Now he stole the ball for me. And I'm like, are you freaking kidding me?

So now, like, the other gym teacher comes in and, like, what's going on here? And right away, he gives the other gym teacher the ball. And I'm like, and all the kids are laughing at me, like, as this kid punk me. And I'm like, you motherfucker. I don't even know if we're a lot of curse. Yeah, go ahead.

I don't like the curse that much anyway, but sometimes it just happens. But this kid brings it out in you. He brings it, he brought it out of me. And then so he starts talking. He gets in my face. He's like, bro, you can't do shit. I'm like, I fuck your ass up. I'm like, bro, who do you think you are?

I know you won't. He was like, I fuck your ass up right now. I ain't scared. We'll do this anywhere. Outside. He's like, no, but I said, no. I'm like, I bet we go to the gym office right now. Let's see what you got.

So I walk my gym The guy who was like the actual teacher in the school Let's this happen because he knows this kid's such a punk So we go into the We go into like the PE office And right away this kid's in my face He pushes me And I'm like boom

And I don't move I just take it I'm not gonna punch him So I just he was actually a little tall than me I take his head and I call time Right to a choke And I just start squeezing him What?

Now as I'm squeezing I'm making fun of him I'm like how's that feel buddy And he's trying to talk And every time he tries to talk I'll just like squeeze a little bit more so he sounds stupid when he's trying to talk. So there was a black couch right behind me. He starts driving into me.

So now I'm going to fall down. I can't let him do that to me. He had one friend in there and we had a couple of other physette teachers. So as I'm falling, I like pick his head up and I grab like an underhook on the other side and I lateral drop him. He like flies into the wall, goes down.

Now he grabbed his head. I'm just pushing his head into the couch. I was like, are you done yet? Are you done yet? Are you done yet? And finally he was like, no, you got me, you got me, you got me, man, you got me, man. and he kind of like gave up and he was like

no I got respect for you now I got respect for you I'm like oh shit though like who the hell do you think you were how old is he? He was like a senior in high school but he probably got left back a couple of times and you how old were you? I was like 21, 21, 22.

I love the school you get to beat up the kids it was great you know it was kind of Did you get in trouble? Did you get in trouble? Wow! I didn't get in trouble because and then it's funny because the next day I see him and I'm like I was worried the whole night

I'm like am I going to get in trouble because of this I was like but you know at the time I was like I just can't deal with this type of crap and so he comes he he he's walking with like a girlfriend in school and I'm kind of by myself I'm like here he's gonna challenge me to a fight or something in the middle of school he comes walking by me he's like yo much respect my man much respect and I'm like bro beat it man beat it do you want people to understand you more do you want people like you really don't give a shit because at the day I know who I am and I know who the people that I love know yeah you know what I mean

and that's how it is you know so I mean they're gonna pay to watch me lose or win you know it's the same thing. You know, Conner always tells me, he's like, let them, hey, and watch the money pile up. So that's what he always tells me, and that's how I feel. So fucking fuck them all, like, they're all going to hate either way. Even if I beat Jake in 10 seconds, they're all going to talk shit. What about this Neiman Gracie? Yeah. You're going to fight him? Do you know who he is now? Well, yeah, he actually came and talked to me. He said, like, yeah, he came and talked to me. Where? MSC? Yeah. Okay.

He was like, no hard feelings. He said the media kind of starts this stuff. And, you know, I mean, that's one thing that I don't put nothing on nobody, you know. So if he came and talked to me, I'm not fighting him. You know, I don't have a problem with him. If he was fighting, it would be a different story. And that's one thing I talk about it. And I always been about is like faking shit is, it's not cool, you know? And Connor believes in that too.

I think faking shit, if it's real, it's real. If I hate you, I'm going to fight. It's it. But if I respect you, I'm going to shake your hand and go on, you know, that's it. And I didn't even know the guy. And then he came and said that to me. And I was like, okay, I don't know. having a problem with you.

Like, you know, there was nothing for me. Maybe you had a problem with me, which most of, that's most of the people in this game is that they're having a problem with me, and I don't know who they are. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, you know, like, he's a good kid. I guess he came. He was very respectful. And that's why it is.

Yeah. I mean, way might scrap it later on. When do you think you will debut? Do you think in 2017? Yeah, yeah. I think so. I mean, I thought to comment off about it a lot, and whenever they say I'm ready, you know, I feel like I'm ready to kill everyone.

Will that be your team? I mean, I think so. You'll go train there? never know. I haven't committed 100% but I talked to those guys on a daily basis. I love everybody over there and I think it might I think so. I think

I think I'm ready right now. I really look at Damien Maia what he's doing those guys. He's not going throwing punches. It's amazing right? And I feel like he'd do exactly the same thing or even better. So I'm going to have it all, every single one of these guys. They don't know. Your Jiu Jiu Jitsu Dream match. Is there one? One guy

today? I fought the guy before but I would like to fight a lot of these guys I would like to fight in like in no time like I'm very big at watching old videos I love those gracey in action videos like go you two and then that's it until someone dies yeah yeah yeah I would love to do that with a lot of these guys in jutsu because like a lot of these guys just try to hold me out they stall me out because I'm dangerous you know and they just try to hold me and they try to stall but in the fight to death you can't do that and there's a lot of guys that act like they're so tough and it's like

okay dude you just help me for 10 minutes like if I can just go with no time with you I fucking have yeah yeah but uh a dream matchup oh that's that's pretty tough that I fought the guy twice but I would probably fight the Angel Loe again. I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's one of the best pound for pounded. So even like you could pay Cois Gracie. You could pick, you could pick...

M. M. M.A. Are we talking to Jiu Jitsu? Today, yesterday, you know... Probably Boucheshire or something. There's so many names, you know. Who do you think is the greatest of all time? Marcello. Yeah. All time? All time, Marcel. But right now.

All time. All time, Marcelo. 100%. Who's right now? The Angel Lowe. Okay. And Marcel was the best because he filed. He didn't give a shit. He did it, and he did it his own way.

There's a lot of guys now, like Hoffmane's everybody talks about, but he never took a risk. You know what I mean? Yeah, you got a risk. He's amazing. He's one of the best. I train with him. He's fucking amazing.

But to be the best, you have to go out of your comfort zone. You know, and that's the same thing Connor did. He went up and fought a belt where he could just stay in and bid the best of his weight. And I feel like people appreciate that, you know? So if he went up and he fought absolute one time where he went up another weight class, I think that would. MMA dream fight? Is there a guy?

Ever? Ever. No, not for MMA. Present. Present. Well, now I'm signed the belt or so I have to be careful. You know, you don't have to. People change.

Like, you hear about Gary and Musassi? Just happen. I feel like Douglas Lima would be easy fight for me. Really? Just leave that to have a chance. Yeah. I did. I mean, it was a different level.

Wow. But that's not a dream fight. That's serious. Yeah, that's going to happen. fight all time I would I'm gonna like pride and shit

because I'm gonna go ahead I'm gonna call to fight something like Mark Coleman in his prime just because like to see what it would be like to fight someone of that like that

you know what about who's available now who's available now who's available now who Roy Mack that's like serious that's not a dream

like I don't really like a dream matchup he's not that like special really? Yeah no dream matchup I don't know There's so many guys.

It would be hard. It would be hard. So you really think you're in there with Douglas Lima. It's an easy fight. It's a one-sided fight. You look at it, he doesn't have any grappling. He doesn't have, you know, if I get him down, he's fucked. Yeah.

And it's a whole, I feel like if I get him down, he's done. And I've seen it in. What if you can't get him down? I'm going to get hold him down. Damn, so you don't want the slow track when you get in there. Okay, I'll tell you. We can build me up or you can. Sure.

It's only 23, so why not build me up. That's what I feel about those matchups. I really, and like when I call these people out, like John Jones, I would kill John Jones in a jihitzy match. That's 100%. That's a hundred percent. Anybody he asks, it's an easy fight. I don't know why these people are going crazy about it.

If I fought John Jones in Jiu-Jitsu, it would be easy. He doesn't know what he's doing. I mean, he doesn't know what he's doing, but it's a different level. He's a white guy by, yeah, but no geek. Yeah, yeah, all right. I fight against the best guys in the world in Jitsu. That's an easy match for me.

I don't know. And I called out the best. I called out Ameri Khan. I called out John Jones. They both said no. What do you guys want to be like, okay. You wanted to fight Ameri Khan.

You said on the undercard. Did he actually say no? He posted that thing like, you know, he said no and like code. Okay. So like all these guys say no to me. So like what are they want to start?

I'm going to call out the bums. I'm trying to go for the best. And now they're like saying no. I respect that. I had John Jones and him go say no to me. So, you know,

I think the real fight for Ameri Khan would be a fight Artem on the undercar. Imagine that. Wow. That would be cool. That was amazing. He said no to me, so I think he's going to fight, Artem. Arden would knock him out.

Wow. Yeah, so I don't know who to call it anymore, everybody can see I know. So I'm just going to kind of sit down for a little bit. I joke about the tweets, obviously. And if I'm being honest, I still don't believe that you're 100% behind it. But I will say this, there's clearly a method to the madness because, let's be honest. No tweets, no back and forth. You're probably not sitting here on the show, right?

People aren't emotionally invested. Like, I feel like now you have this legion of fans who are pulling for you. So whoever was behind it, if it was you, kudos, because people care about you now. You got to do, and I think you put it perfectly in this day and age with the Reebok deal, with everyone kind of looking the same. And there's so many events. It's hard to break out and to promote, you know, the eighth fight on the card, right? That's where I think you are right now.

You got to do it yourself. You can't wait for the UFC to do it for you, right? You got to do it yourself. And you've done a phenomenal job. Every time there's some kind of like newsworthy tweet, UFC, there you are right there. like the popcorn gift or something. I don't know how you do it, but you're like, boom.

I don't know if you get like notifications on your phone, but you are like, you are prolific. Omnipresent. You got to do what you got to do. It's amazing. Yeah, it's good. It's good. I enjoy it.

You must be spending a lot of time on your phone. Dude, it's really hard for me not to be on it right now. Yeah. I know. You know how. We can do a live tweet. What do you mean a live tweet? Well, you take a picture.

Yes, let's do it. I want to see you do a gift right now. Do a gift right now? Yeah. Do something. Okay, let me see. All right, here we go. Here it is.

This is what everyone was asking me. All right. Okay, so you tweet, your last tweet, I wanted to know if anyone was tweeting while you were on. Your last tweet was before, okay, 251 Eastern. All right, so this is it. This is the moment of truth. Chase Sherman, the vanilla gorilla. You told me already, that was a friend of yours that just kind of came up with that name, right?

Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's a great nickname. It is, man. I miss a guy. I haven't seen him in a while. He, like, moved off into the country. He's farming somewhere.

I don't know what he's doing. You don't even have one of those batteries, like the extra battery pack on your phone? You tweet so much, your phone must die. How do you get that? What do you mean? I thought I was fancy. Dude, I just got an iPhone 7.

Oh, wow. I just got one. I was like, you know, because a lot of times it was just, my other phone was freezing up and I said, I can't be tweet worthy without your phone. Well, you need to get one of those battery packs on your phone. My friend just texted me and said, you look fat. Oh, wow.

What a nice friend. Is this the guy cornering it? Yeah, it is. He's just a piece of shit. Yeah. Okay, so here we go. We're going to tweet something. What are we tweeting?

I want to see the way the mind works. Okay, okay. This is like watching Picasso in action. This is Beethoven in front of us, Mozart. The king of gifts, the gift king himself, tweeting. By the way, for the record, I've yet to see the actual Twitter on his phone. He's being a little. Okay.

There it is. Oh, wow. Okay, here we go. You said something. Can you say it out loud? What are you tweeting? What are you saying? I'm just saying here live tweeting at the MMA hour.

Yeah. there we go and can we get a gift there yeah man damn making me nervous nervous thousands of people just give me a second all right all right i'm sorry i'm sorry it's a lot of pressure you like my girl you're just making just all over me oh what are you doing over there what's your phone which girl are we talking about here oh let's say um i'm sure you get a lot of phone calls these days right everyone wants to be friends with you now that you want in the ufc fight of the night uh man it's yeah it's like A lot of Johnny come lately's.

Yeah, definitely. Jenny come lately's? Yeah. They all want a piece. Like me. Having you on the show. Can't wait to see this tweet. Am I going to see it in real time?

Yeah, for sure. Okay. Chase Sherman, UFC. He tweeted earlier, new shirt, $85, new door to studio 250. Having the vanilla gorilla on the MMA are priceless. You're so witty with the tweets. it's too bad that you're not fighting in that era a couple years ago when the UFC was actually giving people bonuses for tweets.

Do you remember that? They were? About that? Yes. I actually made a joke about that. It was like three, four years ago, the UFC was actually every quarter determining who had the most entertaining tweets. The whole concept went off the rails when people were just trying to one up each other. But they were actually giving bonuses based on tweets.

You'd be killing it. You'd be racking the dough. Did you tweet? Yeah. Well, it's sending man. I got this little. What are you got? It's always an excuse with you.

What's that? C-spire. Exactly. It's like a little regional cell phone. You're kidding me. Hey man, it's like 85 bucks. C-Spyre? It's like 70 bucks.

Oh, here we go. 70 bucks for unlimited everything. You screwed up the hashtag, but we won't hold you to it. There it is. It made me nervous, man. There it is. There's a V-MMA hour. I see you just put an MMA hour.

See right there? Look at the, see that? What do you think of my new studio, by the way? Dude, this is nice. This is really nice. I like it. That's a very homey. I'm going to end up breaking this day thing.

It's a very homey feeling. Right. It's kind of like my basement slash the Tonight Show of MMA. That's the kind of look I was going for. I like it. Maybe one day we'll have you up there. Maybe. You and Rashad.

Poor Rashad got fired from his job. You know, has two kids, single father, and you took that win bonus away from him. He's a nice guy. He is a really nice guy. Better him than me. He got the bonus too. He got the bonus. I said that. I know, but I said that in the interview.

I said, I hope he gets a bonus. Because we was looking at either finish of the night or fight of the night. You must have been sweating. You must have been sweating, right? Oh, do we have the tweet? Where's the tweet? I think we will put it up there. There it is.

For those who missed it. There it is. Live tweeting. Here live tweeting now. At Ari Halawani, MMA hour. And you went with Prince Harry. You know that's Prince Harry. Well, there's Rashad Colter knocked out.

What did you type in to find that particular gif? How does the mind work? Did you just type in boom? Boom. Okay. As in like, told you so. Yeah, of course. I still feel like people don't give Connor his due. Like, there are still some people who say,

oh, he never fought this guy, never fought that guy. He's getting more, but some are still reluctant to give him his props. Where do you fall in the Connor debate? Like, are you a fan of his? Do you appreciate what he's done? Or do you still, do you feel like the jury's still out on him? The USC has put him in some, you know, good positions to make his, and things like that. Look, no matter what anybody says, the stars have aligned, right? Yeah.

For him, and I think that anybody who's gone down the path of being a professional fighter, and I'm including myself in it, you have to fool yourself that you can be great, right? To win a world title to begin with and to hold on to a title, you have to convince yourself that you can do it. You have to dream it, visualize it, nonstop, and see it happening before it can ever happen. So he's already convinced himself of that level, and he's also convinced himself that he can climb in, a boxing ring with Floyd Mayweather. A guy with that much mindpower, and I was just saying it earlier today, you know, to give you an example of a guy with great mind power, my running coach, David Clark, who is, started out

a 320-pound guy who now runs ultra-marathons like they're nothing. He ran the bad water in Death Valley, which 128 degrees, 135 miles, who hallucinated for eight hours of that race, arguing with the white line on the highway because it was telling him he wasn't a world-class runner and he couldn't finish, you know, it grew a mouth and was talking to him. Wow. Had a name. And you have to run on the white line in Death Valley in that race so that your shoes don't

delaminate and come apart. Wow. So for eight hours of that race, which I think it's a, I forget the cutoff on that race, but 135 miles through Death Valley and then 10,000 feet up into the mountains, people don't even remotely understand how monumental it is to even get into that race, let alone to finish it. you know that's mind power and that's the kind of mind power i see with a guy like connor mcgregor who's just 100% convinced himself that he belongs there and he can do it otherwise

he wouldn't have become a champ he wouldn't and sure uh maybe did he dodd some bullets but hey he had two wars with nate dyes and he is an incredible fighter no matter what anybody thinks um so look i think it's the fact he pulled it off is amazing it's it's a victory in its own right because i was in negotiation sat in a negotiation room in Hollywood, California with Winky Wright in his camp. And we were trying to get a fight put together between he and I. It didn't work out. This was after the UFC, right? And why didn't it work out? Somebody from his side of the camp that kind of brought everything together, decided that he deserved more of a cut of the whole thing. And negotiations fell apart.

The breakdown? What was the breakdown? Well, the money part's not important. This guy suddenly decided to be greedy. and he said he was going to file lawsuits. Really? How close were you? What's that? How close were you? Well, we were going to do it. Really?

They were going to turn it into a reality show. They were going to do it. Wow. This is years ago, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Roy Jones and I had talked a little bit about doing the same thing, but it was going to be an MMA fight. And Roy said, as long as you agree to stand up with me for the first five minutes,

then you can do anything you want after that. What? And he was, and Roy was obviously Roy. Yeah. So he was gambling that he was going to knock me out in the first five minutes, which, dude, do I want to get hit by Roy Jones? No, I don't. But then he took the fight in Australia.

He said, I've got to go do this fight in Australia first. Yeah. He got knocked out and get derailed all that. So the stars did not align. The stars did not align. But these guys are much bigger names. I mean, not than Roy Jones or anything, but McGregor, obviously, a bigger name than I ever was.

I was never close to that. So it's awesome. The fact, because I've been down that road, I know how massive of an undertaking it was to try and get it done, and he's done it. How much, would you have made the most amount of money of your career if you got one of those two boxing matches? Yeah, by far. Yeah.

Yeah. Because you would have been your, you didn't have any promotional ties to anyone else or anything like that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is, right? You think about it? You think you don't think about it?

You don't lament it? The only time I've thought about it is this. Right now when people are asking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I remember that. That was probably like a decade ago now, right? When there were rumors of that? Why were you so interested in doing this?

Why did you want to test yourself against, to the best. I mean, look, no matter what, whether I were to win or to lose, okay, I fought Roy Jones. I think you right, it's an incredible experience in life, right? Right.

I mean, it's, I look back and go, I totally forgot that I fought Dan Severn to a draw. And, you know, you'll think back and go, I fought Dan Severn. Like, that's not easy. Yeah. I mean, it was a big dude. Sure, sure.

You know, when he was young. So, yeah, it was just, it's an accomplishment, right? It's just something, challenge yourself. do whatever you got to do. You met Al Pacino. Al Pacino was awesome. I'm glad you brought it up.

Yes, it's incredible. I saw the photos. How did this happen? So I'm with Balagy Group Brown. Yeah. Great group. Lloyd. Lloyd, the man. Lloyd Pearson.

Lord Pearson. And his marketing head right there, David. His mother-in-law actually works with Al Pacino's and Scarface. So somehow, coincidence, they're filming right now, Joe Paterno. head coach from Penn State. Yes. He's paying Joe Paterno.

So he's like, hey, they're right around. They're like literally five minutes away. I'm like, I know you're trying to get your mind off the weight cut and all that. I'm like, yeah, let's go. I'm down. Wow. We literally walked there. We waited like 15, 20 minutes.

Actually, when I met him and we took the pictures, people were like, is that out? He doesn't look like him. He was still in makeup. He was going to shoot and he had makeup of all this stuff. Didn't look like him initially, but then you could tell it to him. He basically almost looks like him was the nose. And they obviously did his nose and his ears. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

So we start talking, I swear that if he didn't have to go film more, we started talking about boxing, about everything. It could have let on for like an hour or two conversation. He was cool. The fact that his age and he's still acting and he's in this hot weather, it was a bad heat wave last week. It's just unbelievable. The guy is really, really talented, unbelievable guy, nicest guy.

It was so funny. I actually just got a text from Lloyd before I came on the show. It was like, yeah, Al called. My mother-in-law asked me what channel was, watch the fight said unbelievable fight. Very smart fighter. Definitely going to be a champion one year. And I was just like, if that doesn't get you, I don't know what.

I was almost about to cry. I was like, this is awesome. I mean, it's not every day you get to meet someone like that and be like, oh my God. Like, you know, I watch your movies. You're talented. I'm a fan. I'm a fan. When we go to fights, I see fighters, I'm like, hey, I'm a fan.

Can I get a picture? You're still a fan. You've got to love. You can't be above it. And then, you know, people start looking at me. you're like, well, you're Jimmy Rivera, can I get pictures? I'm not something special. I'm just a guy that fights. I believe the same color

as you. I'm an ordinary guy. He's like, no, but this and that. And I try to tell I'm nothing special, man. I'm just a regular guy. I love what I do, teaching. I love what I do fighting, and I do it for, because I love it. Meeting a living legend like Pacino just two days before your fight. I tweeted the pictures you did as well, so people

can see it. It's online, go on your Instagram. I think you posted it as well. That must have been, I mean, that's kind of inspirational to meet a guy like that as you're preparing. And I know he's a big boxing fan, right? Huge. He knows his boxing like that. We were talking. I was like, wow. I'm like... Does he know his M.MA?

Not as much. Not as much. We talked... He's an old school guy. Yeah, we talked about the McGregor-Mayweather. Yeah. But he wasn't at in tune as in like, you know, talking about Triple G and the Canella about the other, you know, the other boxing matches going on. But he knows his stuff.

And when he, you know, when he met me and we started talking, we just hit it off like that. And I was, it was awesome. That fact that he actually, you know, called David's Oh, hey, when it was a fight and what time, where is it? And there's like five minutes before the fight. He's like, it's on, no, not Fox. Go ahead.

tune in real quick. You'd watch it. And then what he said afterwards, he was just like, this is, this is, you know, when do you get this? You never get this. Sure. I mean, once in a lifetime kind of thing. So it was awesome.

It caught my attention when we spoke on Long Island because you were like, when I was in school, you were saying that you could tell, like, you know, did someone say to you, UFC 74. Yeah, exactly. You just mentioned that one on the way here. Yeah, yeah. That was a dog of her. is Randy Coutor.

Damn. Yeah, we were just on the way here my friends in the back they were like, he's gonna test you, man. You gotta name some, name some UFC events. What's your,

what's your time frame? Like when... It was, like, UFC 66 all up to like, I think it was 120-something when Akiama fell at Bisping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One-20.

Yeah, that's what I thought it was. Exactly. But then I lost it. I'm not as good as you. What happened? I think I sparred too much, my honest. For real?

No, no, I'm joking. Okay. It just, it just went. Because I was bad in high school, So I was bored. I would just write down main events every, like, every month, just see if I still had it. Like UFC 66 all the up to 120. You know what's so weird about that? For me, it was UFC 66 too. Yeah, that was the first one I ever ordered.

So, for real? Yeah, my parents let me order. I was 15 years old, I think. Maybe 14 years old. Okay. Yeah, it was the first one I ever ordered. That was Chocolateel versus T. T. Ortiz 2. Yeah, December. Scott Gawab is on the card against Tony D'Sooza, Keith Jardine, and Forrest, and Forrest got emotional on the left after losing.

That was crazy. Everybody I picked in that car because, I was a new fan. But everybody I wanted to. winning that card, one, and after that, it was like, Dad, we have to order every single paper view for now on. Really? It's awesome, yeah. So you were, from what I understand, you really caught on to MMA because of Tough 2.

Well, I watched the UFC Unleashed. It just happened to be on TV. Okay, on the channel. Yeah, exactly. And then right after that, it said, it was a commercial for Tough 2. And I was like, I'm going to watch this. This is pretty cool. I was a big fan of the contender.

The boxing show. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, my parents used to watch that. Then this came out. I was like, this is the same thing. But I like it better because they showed the whole fight. The contender only showed like highlights of the fight. That's right.

It just showed the whole entire thing. So you had no knowledge of mixed martial arts. You were not a fan, no interest in it prior to that. I didn't know about it. I knew about it, but I didn't really know. I had the old, old PS1 game. Yeah? I played it, but I didn't know what the hell of it.

I thought it was W. I didn't really know what it was until I really saw it and sat down and washed it and instantly hooked. And what about training? Like, did you grow up with martial arts? Not at all. Nothing. Not at all. What did you do as a kid?

Nothing. My dad, well, I grew up in the Bronx, so there's not really that much. to do in the Bronx. Okay. I moved up here when I was the sixth grade. But I did karate class when I was younger. Like all my cousins did karate and I hated it. I was like, now I'm never going back.

Never doing it again. Moved up here. And in eighth grade, that's when I started watching Ultimate Fighter and all that. Then the next year, ninth grade, I got my friends on to it. And they're like, I found a gym. It's like 10 minutes away. They do kickboxing you jitsu. I was like, oh, let's go.

I was like, let's try it out. To me and my two friends, we went and we did the one month trial. Went every six days a week, every single day for that one month's trial. Wow. I've been at the same gym ever since. Tiger Shulman's. It was next to your house. It was 15 minutes away. Wow.

Any of those friends stick with it? Are they fighters as well? No. No. So they just fell off as time went on and you stuck with it. Yeah, I started as a student. And I became the head instructor of that school. Wow.

Yeah. So it's pretty cool. How soon into that experience did you start to think like this is something that I might want to do with my life? From the first class, the first, especially Jitsu, which is weird. Everybody thinks I'm a striker. I fell in love with grappling from the first second I did the class. So as soon as I did that, it was like, Mom, I love this.

I need to do this. It was expensive for us at the time, too. But they found a way for it to work. They paid for me. And then I started helping out teaching and cleaning the mats and cleaning the bathrooms like that. So I got a little bit of a discount. Were you good right away? I was a natural like grappling, not striking at all.

Interesting. Yeah, I got my ass worked. Yeah, because in your last fight, I mean, your striking was phenomenal. I feel like everyone, as you said, everyone kind of thinks that you are naturally a striker. Yeah. But if you look at my amateur career and all my amateur fights, I was, I was a grappler. strictly a grappler. Wow.

So that's pretty funny. And so you say that you started to let, you became like an encyclopedia of MMA knowledge and would write this down. So you would just order everything and would retain it and to keep yourself busy in class. In math class, yeah. That's crazy.

That's crazy. So if I threw out things, would you remember or you've forgotten? We worked on a little bit, just see if I remember you still right? 88. Give me the main event. I could tell you how it ended,

what round it ended. But that's easy. No, all right, that's easier. But like I said, man, I've been sparring too much. 81. I know 73 was UFC stacked

74 was Gabriel Gonzaga, Randy Gator 75 was 75 was Rampage Hendo Rampage Hendo That was a good one Yeah

It was on Spike Hesley Yeah, it was on Spike Deli Yeah, yeah yeah Yeah, yeah Brack Lesnar Frank Mier Bronson Frank Mier Went back

Yeah That was a good one too That was That was the main event? Yeah yeah yeah All right You would know better I guess

Yeah No, Tim Sylvia versus Bignog Yeah, there we're Interim Yeah, that's from Heavyweight Yeah that's right

Okay favorite fight As a fan, favorite fight? Favorite fight of all time? Yeah, yeah. That you watched when you were a fan. Yeah. Shogun versus Hendo, that pops up right away. 139?

Yep. San Jose. Yeah, that was a good. My teammate, Nick Pace falling on that card too. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Oh, man. That's a great one of my other,

I'm not even saying this being biased, but Louis Galdon, you remember him? Of course. When he fought John Lineker. Yeah, yeah, great fight. That fight gets no low, but that was, as a fan, I was amazed. This fight was insane.

They were just throwing bombs the whole time, and Lewis, they eventually called him. that guillotine put him asleep. Yeah, yeah. That was up there too. But Diaz versus Connor. One, one. And then two.

Two, yeah. Great two. Oh, man. I can't even think I could pick one. You know what was a great one that nobody talks about a lot too? John Copenhaver, War Machine. Yeah, yeah. Of course.

That was insane. Clay Vita versus Roger Werther, the same car. Also tough, yeah. Oh, man. I can keep going, man. Did you go to any cards as a kid? I went to Keith Jardine versus Rampage. Was that 70?

Keith Jardine versus Rampage. That was the main event in Ohio. It was 60. No, 70s. No, no, no. It was... I was a senior, so it had to be later. Was it?

Yeah. 70. Okay, so 78 was validation. No, you know what it was? It was in the 80s. Okay. That's why I'm off here. Okay, okay.

And so 81, 83 was in Montreal. Was it 86? No. No. No. No. Yes, it was 96. It was 196.

It threw me off. Yes, you threw me up. It was right before UFC 97, which was Chuck Dillon Shogun Anderson, yeah. So I was the first one I went to, and man, the, the energy there was insane. I never been to a live event before. Why'd you go to one in Ohio?

Naga tournament, a grappling tournament was going to be there, so we were going to go do that anyway. And then my parents got for me as a gift just to go to the fights with my cousin. We had perfect seats. Nate Diaz was in the crowd that time, too. It was fantastic. You get a picture of them? No, I didn't get a picture. When you go to, like, the retreat and stuff for at fights,

you get pictures with the fighters, right? Now that I've been in the U.S.C. I haven't tried to. The only person I've got a picture with is Yolana. Okay. Because I'm like, when am I going to see her again? I just got a picture with my last way.

But I don't want to be like a fan boy and get pictures of everybody. You know what you? Oh, 100% I want to. I went to the fan expo, the first one and the second one. And then the third one, all three of those I went to. Vegas, Vegas Ballson. And I got pictures with, I met almost every fighter you can see. So you were like waiting in line with all the schlubs.

Wow. That was a diehard man. And who, like, who were some of the ones that you met? John Jones, Tiago, you can name them and I guarantee you. I've met almost everybody. except for that's hilarious crow cop that's like the one that's on top of my list crocob he's a tough one he does you know the funny thing when he fought uh when he fought uh when he fought brenn shab in jersey yeah yeah yeah that was my birthday was shogun and crocuhcuhn and

co-op wow they both lost on my birthday both got knocked out show gun in the main event i thought you were going to say your two favorite fighters crocop and uh and brandon and i'm like oh you're the one who's favorite fighters brand shop i'm just kidding brandon jeez um and so at that point like when you're going to these fights do you already know that you're going to go to the ufc like you already say that was always the dream As soon as I was like, I want to do that. Wow. I want, I want to do that.

I never had a passion for something. Like, I used to be on a diving team. I did that in high school. Okay. And that's when I started training. My parents, like, you got to stick with diving because you're good at it. You can get a scholarship to college. And I was just like, I just don't like it.

Like, I love this. I kind of like diving. I'm good at it, but I don't really care about it. But I love this. I never felt any kind of passion like that for an activity that actually was like, I need to go to training. I need to go to training. I need to go to training.

I love this. Did you go to college? I went there for a semester, a year and a half. And what happened? I just stopped going. We weren't interested. Not at all, man. And is that when you were focusing on?

I was fighting at that time when I was in college. My first amateur fight when I was 18. Okay. So I was in high school, actually, with my first amateur fight. So how would Paul Felder describe 2017? Because I feel like you've had some massive highs with the job now. Yeah. The win in Scotland.

You're on a roll, change camps. But you also suffered, you know, a great personal loss. I mean, it's a roller coaster, right? It's been a, it's been a, it's been a, crazy here because I mean everything with my dad but at the same time I just had one of my biggest wins in Canada when I had that up elbow knockout but then he's sick and not soon after that he passed away so it was it was crazy and right when he passed away I just signed the contract to fight Stevie so it was like for a little bit there I almost wanted to be like maybe Glasgow's not

going to happen maybe we should and it just uh it pushed through it and uh you know we're just just trying to do it for him now at this point. I just try to, I know I said this right after the fight that it still doesn't even feel real and it still doesn't because I'm doing so much with the Condender series and flying all over the place that it's,

some things will trigger it every now and then I'll hear a song or something and I'm like, oh man, you know, I go to visit my mom and it's like you forget that he's even, you know, it's almost like he's just not there for a while and then it slowly starts to sink in. Were you guys close? Yeah.

Very close. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm close with my mom and my dad, yeah, I was, you know, go home and visit at least once or twice a week, bring the baby out there. So, you know, my mom only lives like 20 minutes from where I live now. So it's not like it's an adventure to go and visit my parents. So I would see them all the time. We would have macaroni and cheese after every fight. So when I got back from the airport, I'd go out to my mom and dads and they would cook like homemade baked macaroni and cheese. So this was the first fight where my mom had to try to make the macaroni and cheese.

How did that go? He did a good job. He did a good job. Usually your dad was the one, man. Yeah, he was the cook. He was the cook. He's the one that got me in the Food Network, which is why I torture myself and watch cooking shows nonstop when I'm cutting weight and all that stuff.

Bobby Flay. And so many guys do it. Yeah, yeah. Dustin Porier famously did in that documentary about it. He's sitting there watching. I do the same exact thing. Really? Yeah.

Why? I don't know what it is. It's just like you can't have it. So I just, I kind of almost get by by seeing people cook it or, but I'm not. I'm not one of those people that likes it too much when somebody in front of me eats it. Because if it's there where I can almost get it, then it's like, all right, maybe.

It's a little too close. Then there's some restraint that has to come in. So when you're cutting weight, all you're watching... The guys in the gym joke by because if this is the gym at Rufusport, my room kind of opens up into this little back office that got turned into my little apartment. And you can see my TV on the wall.

And the guys joke around all the time because I'll leave it on sometimes with the door open and there's the Food Network. Wow. Upcake Wars or, you know, donut throwdown or whatever. What did you watch in Scotland? Were there cooking shows?

There was. We were watching a Food Network, and theirs was different. I remember there was shows that we don't have over here in the States, and they weren't as good. Okay. I wasn't impressed with the shows over.

The variety. TV over there sucked. I couldn't find anything to watch. Going back to your dad for a second, how long did he have? He got diagnosed right before I fought. Darren Crookshank. Okay.

When I first found out. I remember we did an interview about it then. And so a year and a half, I think pretty much. So that was January, that fight was January of 2016. Yeah, so January to January, it was a year. Okay. And then he passed away in May. Okay.

And was there a point where you thought that he'd be able to... There was like maybe a month where they said the tumor shrunk and his cancer levels were lower. and then I'd say, I'd have to ask my mom, maybe a few weeks later, he got a really bad stomach infection in like the lining of his stomach. And from then on, it was just, that was it. It was just one thing after the other. And then he couldn't do chemo because he was in the hospital for this, this, or this.

And he was having all these surgeries to fix his stomach. Then he started getting fluid in his stomach, fluid in his lungs, fluid around his heart. And he just had all these tubes. Anybody's had somebody that's had at least pancreatic cancer. It's just, it's never the pancreatic cancer that kills you. It's everything else that kind of just swarms you. I think cancer in general is like that a lot. It's just your immune system and the chemo doesn't really help any of that.

A part of me almost wishes he would have never done any of it. And he said, all right, let's have as much fun and see the family for, what, three to six months? And then, because the way he went out, it was just, oh, man, I don't wish that on anybody. Really? And he passed a week before you went to Milwaukee, right? Well, I had to go to Vegas. So he passed away. Oh, for the retreat?

Went to the retreat. Oh, wow. Came back to the retreat? Yeah. Okay. Spent. And that actually, because we had had his services and everything, so it wasn't like right after he passed away.

So I had a week with the family preparing for his, it wasn't a full funeral. He was cremated. So we had like a nice big viewing at a funeral home and everything like that. And then I went to Vegas. And then I came back, spent like five days with the family, and then can't. Did you consider canceling the fight? Yeah, for a little bit, I just thought maybe postpone it a little longer. So maybe not Glasgow, maybe a month later.

And I just knew I wouldn't get that fight with Stevie Ray. I knew it was going to be a big fight. So I was like, man, if I do this, even though I had the circumstances to do it, I didn't want anybody thinking anything of me. So I was like, you know what? It'll help me keep my mind on something else other than him passing. in a way. What was it like doing that camp so soon after? I think it was good for me because I got to kind of just,

have you ever been the roof of sport? Have you ever been in there, gym? Have you. It's like down in the basement. Yeah, I feel like I've seen it so many times with like the punk series and all that. So you've seen the yellow and black and all that. Of course. But when everybody's gone, that whole place was mine. I lived down there. So I would have a lot of days where I would, you know, especially Saturdays and Sundays after classes where I could just sit on the and listen to music and think about everything and kind of process it all on my own

as opposed to if I was home, I would have not love my family, love all my aunts, uncles and everything, but they would have been around to the point where I was like, okay, I don't, you know what I mean? I don't need that to deal with my dad's death. You know what I mean? I think being on my own and training my ass off and Duke,

you know, his mom, during camp, his mom passed away of cancer. So me and him kind of really, I think, bonded on an even stronger level for that. And he would just be able to say the right thing to me during pads or sparring that would get me like, you know, really, really pumped up, especially right before the fight, you know, whispering in my ear. You know, this is for your father, go out there. Wow. He's with you. Yeah, he gives chills, right? Yeah. You walked out with his ashes, right? Yeah, I got him on here too. They're in this little thing here. And this is even his, he had this, like, before me and my brother.

brothers were even born this what is that it's like a jesus head oh wow and uh not really religious but you know he had that from when he was probably in his 20s to wow so walking out with him around your neck what was it really it really helped and i got to take it off and handed to my brother was in my corner and he doesn't he's not a fighter he's uh just been a big fan and supporter of mine since i started helped me out when i was uh up and coming when i was making you know no money bouncing on the weekends. I lived with him for like three, three years, maybe a little longer. And so that was just like a reminder that, you know, and he was so, he was so nervous, man. He tried to keep it together backstage, but I'd look over at him, and I'm the one fighting.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be like, you good? Are you okay? What's he doing? He's just sitting there. I can see him get a little red, and like he's trying to, he doesn't know what to do with himself, and he's never been in a locker room before a fight. He's never cornered you before? No. Wow, so why'd you bring him for this fight? Just to be.

for family. Wow. And it was in Scotland, and he was going to be there anyway because he was going to go. Okay. It was like, well, I've got Duke,

and I had my teammate and training partner who was a South Ball, just like Steve, Craig Echolberg, who's a fighter. So it was like, well, I have everything I need advice and coaching-wise. I don't really need it.

You don't always need a third or fourth guy. That's usually just, if you can get it, okay, but I wasn't flying anybody extra just to have somebody extra there. Do you know what I mean? I already paid for the people I needed to be there, and my brother was going to be there anyway.

So I was like, you want the job? And it worked out. What was his reaction when you offered it to him to be in your corner? He was, he immediately said, yeah, that would be. But he was also like, do what you have to do. So he was definitely not like, yeah, yeah, let me do it. You know what I mean? He wanted to make sure we were going to have everybody we need first and foremost.

And we did. I mean, I had my sparring partner who'd been my guy the whole eight weeks, and I had Duke. I mean, really, I could do it all with just Duke there, to be honest. your head coach. But it helped have a grappler too with me because we knew Stevie was going to try to shoot. So he loved it, man. Did he, in the locker room, whatever, did he say anything, you know, like was he trying to be a coach or was he just kind of staying back? And I told him, I said, don't feel like you need to do anything. As a matter of fact, I was like, don't, don't do anything. You know what I mean? If Duke says, hey, Tommy, say something or yell this to get him motivated,

then I was like, then you do whatever, you do whatever Duke says, is pretty much what I told him. And he didn't need to really be there that long in the end. And don't, and don't, for the fight. But backstage, you know, I just, I kept checking in on him and he kept, just, he kept out of the way and watched. And I think it was a really cool experience, because he's seen me fight every single fight, and then to finally see what goes on, what goes into the warm-ups and, just the nerves, and guys going out, coming back, beat up, and guys coming back off a win, like when some of the guys came back losing, you can tell it starts the freaking mal, like, well, maybe this whole locker room is going to lose tonight.

And it's just, you know, you learn that that stuff's got to just let everything kind of ride off you a little bit. So now that you did so well with him in your corner, is he going to be a fixture? That's what we were talking about. He's like, I'd love to do another one. I'm like, well, we'll see. We'll see. Maybe you're a good luck charm. Of course, anytime someone reads about your story now, they read about what happened to you when you were 12.

You were raped. You're okay with that. You're okay? Because I read something very interesting that you said that, like, people feel uncomfortable talking to me about it, but I actually enjoy having my voice heard and telling people so that people don't blame themselves. Victims can learn from this and don't blame themselves because that's something that you feel, right? You blame yourself?

Well, I did for a long time, and I think that's part of the problem with anything from rape to domestic violence to, you know, even like mental disorders. People like with depression and anxiety, like people are so afraid to talk about it because you feel so isolated. You feel like this only happened to me because I'm bad. It's not something that happens to everyone, but this is me because I'm bad. And, you know, any chance I can get to tell people, like, it happened to me and you think I'm cool. You think I'm successful. You think I have my shit together, but I really don't. And I might never fully have my shit together, but every day I'm working towards it, and you can do the same thing.

Could you tell us what happened? Do you mind? No. I was raped when I was, I said 12. Unfortunately, like, when you kind of bury memories, you bury them. So I might have been 13, actually. But it was someone in my neighborhood, and I thought I didn't want to tell anyone because I had, was smoking pot. And I was really high.

And I believe he laced my drugs. And I was like almost, like, I couldn't move. And I was like screaming and shouting, but I couldn't move my body. So all this happened. and, you know, when the drugs were off, I could run home and everything, but it's like a life sentence when you're raped, because any time after it happens, you feel like that same fear and panic and anxiety and shame. Like, if I didn't buy drugs from this guy or going to his house and sit in the living room

and agree to smoke with him, then this never would have happened. So for so long, I carried that every single day, like it had a handle on it, and I brought it with me. How did you get over that? I never got over it. I still didn't get over it, but I did accept that it wasn't my fault. And it's not my burden to carry. It's his instead.

And I just figure out how to live my life around that happening, how to accept that, you know, everything that happens isn't my fault. Some things are beyond care control. Did you tell your parents or friends or anyone that's close to you after it happened? My ex-husband was actually the first person I ever told. Wow. How many years later? Well, he was my first boyfriend.

Oh, okay. My second boyfriend. So I was with Mike from when I was 14 until I was 30. Okay. So probably a big part of the reason because, you know, I told him that and he helped me carry that. But he was also a kid. I was 14. He was, you know, 18.

So he kind of just, like, said, here, let me just take that problem and put it on the shelf and make you feel better. Okay. So. Did you tell your parents at some point? Years later. And how did they react? It was hard because my neighborhood is, more like a community. So the person

who raped me is still like riding around on this bike and out of jail for years. Like my mom knows his mom and it kind of gets buried, you know? And that was a big part of the reason why I wanted to move my daughter out of there because sexual assault is so prevalent neighborhoods like that

where people are afraid and ashamed to tell on someone that is so close with people you know. Yeah. Have you ever seen him since? I have. You have? I have. Have you talk to him? No. How close is he when you see him? Like riding his bike, maybe if I'm driving and I'll see him ride his bike. What is that like?

It's terrifying, but not physically terrifying because I could kick his ass. You could. It's like the fear comes back all in waves, like as if it just happened. How hard was it to get to the point to where you speak about it now and are okay to speak about it and almost giving people hope that they can speak about and encourage? I mean, that's not an easy thing. It's not, but it's something like that came with. time like I realize not everyone has a microphone and a microphone and a platform to speak and I think it's an athlete to duty to reach out to all the people who think that you inspire them or who say

because of you I went to the gym today because of you I felt like I could box I want to reach out to people on a different level so that because of me they felt like they could put a piece of their life behind them like like you know what bad things have happened to me in my life yeah but I'm still able to do well and do able to do good. Your story has been covered everywhere at ESPN, Vice. I've read tons of articles. We had a great article on you right before your debut in MMA. Mark Romandie wrote it. And I'm wondering, like, the more it gets out there, you must get letters from people, right? From women who have probably experienced and who say thank you. What does that like to read that? That you're kind of like a voice for them.

Sometimes it makes me cry, you know, but it makes me know it's worth it. And it gives me, it inspires me to keep talking and keep saying it and keep assuring people and women. And even men, men, like, you know, these things happen to men all the time as well. Like, it's not your fault. And you don't have to be ashamed or embarrassed. You're not by yourself. When I remember, I remember when I first talked about it, I was surprised that all the people around me who reached out and said, like, it happened to me too.

And I would look at these people and think, like, but you have a good job and a family. And every time I see you're happy. And that made me realize that I could be happy too. Uh-huh. How long after did you speak about it publicly for the first time? gosh, it had to be close to 20 years. Wow. And why did you decide to speak about it?

What changed to make you finally come out and talk? Because I was finally starting to get over it myself. Not get over it, but learning how to put it behind me. Or learning how to say, this doesn't define me who I am. This isn't me. You know, like, it's just growing up and learning yourself and learning, like, all the things that are wrong with me and why they're wrong with me.

And I just feel like, for all the people who are looking up to me and following me and writing to me, I owe it to them. You don't think, though, that this incident led you to become a fighter? I don't think so. I think that this incident makes me fight how I fight, you know, like, because I fought for my life before. And that makes me feel like when I go in the ring or even the cage now, like, no girl at 125 pounds is going to make me fight for my life. No girl at 125 pounds is going to intimidate me in ways that I haven't already lived through and came out the other side. So you never see me give up because I don't know how to.

What is it like now because you say 1213, your daughter is 1213. Do you think about like overprotecting her and do you get worried when she, now she's becoming more independent, right? Do you start to put yourself in her shoes at the age? And how are you coping with that? I really try to make my daughter know. that she has a voice and she can speak out. And there are things that she can talk to me about

and not feel embarrassed or ashamed or like that mommy won't believe her. And her father is very active and who she's with and where she goes and what she does. Because he still lives in that neighborhood. I took her out. Okay, okay.

I ran away with her. So she spends most of our time with me where the environment isn't, she goes out and then comes home for dinner. It's like you have after school activities. Mommy picks you up. Mommy brings you home. If your girlfriends want to come over,

they can come over to our apartment. Not so much. She's just roaming the streets hanging out. Okay. Do you ever, like, is there a point where you just don't want to talk about, are you tired of talking about it? Having to relive it? No.

No. You think that there's a purpose. I mean, you have this. And I remember once somebody made like a comment on Twitter or Facebook that stuck with me and they were like, oh, you know, Heather Hardy is always telling her a sad story. and I was like wow you know maybe some other people are tired of hearing it but those are the people who don't have to listen to it

it's like the people who really need to hear it will hear it are you a part of any groups do you talk to any I don't my advisor Dan Hill has had me do a few like speeches and interviews and programs and stuff but nothing like exclusively you're so eloquent you know you speak about it

and just your whole story is just so inspiring So I feel like a lot of people can learn a lot and be inspired by you. Yeah, I do some public speaking, like when I'm asked. But unfortunately, I'm always in the gym training or, you know, being a mom is hard to commit so much to that. So whenever I have the chance to talk about it. Boxing's been its own worst enemy. I'm not, I don't subscribe to MMA did boxing in or MMA herd boxing bullshit. Right.

They're two very different, you know, sports and disciplines. And maybe 10 years ago, like I didn't get MMA to the extent I get it now I I'm not a big fan I have to admit but like I don't hate on it you watch it sometimes yeah like I never did before I got you know it was weird I was like uh I was watching bill ash fought for somebody and it was an unbelievable fight I think the other guy hadn't fought in a while Dominic Cruz yeah that fight was great like I mean I don't know much about MMA but I knew that that was good like and I was watching that appreciated it I really did like I got it I got like and I I saw a lot of stuff in that particular fight that I said, wow, like, I, you know, there is more, you know, like I was missing, you know, I think I missed the boat a little bit a long time ago and not understanding the skill that goes into this. Like, there, and that fight really I found very compelling. And, you know, I said, I don't watch regularly, but yeah, I watch. And, you know, now I have Heather Hardy who's competing in Bellator. and I have other women who fight for me

that are about to get into MMA. Who's that? Amanda Serrano wants to test it out, so I think she's probably going to. Okay. And she's won like five world championships and five different weight classes in boxing. She's widely considered.

She's actually going to try to tie Delahoy and Pacquiao and make history and win a title in her sixth way class, I think, before the year ends. Okay. Which promotion is she talking to? at the moment I mean she's sort of like

you know talking to a lot of people okay you have to give her she's friendly with Misha Tate she's friendly with she's friendly but I think she's talked to Misha Tate about maybe managing her why don't you manage her in MMA I could

you know I think that that why give her to someone else? I think that there are a lot of I have a promotional contract with her okay but I think and it goes on and a number of years and you know you know I think that there are illusions that people have right now I think people are

watching this, MMA athletes as well as boxers, they're watching this event, and everyone's believing that the grass is greener on the other side. Like everyone thinks there's like, you know, some giant windfalls out there to be had. Maybe to some extent, because of the success of Ronda Rousey and Holly Holme, Micha Tate, and, you know, Chris Seaborg, others, that MMA's been kinder to women that get to the ultimate level than, you know, that women's boxing's been to women who win championships and still can't pay the bills. Right.

So I understand more of the, you know, why women are taking a good look at MMA right now because they see potentially greater opportunities. But I think when they go out there and they fish around and they really look at what's out there, they'll see that it's, you know, neither path is necessarily paved than gold. Is there a moment that sticks out, part of this experience for you,

favorite moment? I ask you about just, you know, Mayweather McGregor in 10 years, is there one that you think will pop up first? You know, to some of Grant, I heard his answer, and I think the press tour was definitely memorable. Yeah. For me, why I love combat sports, you know, the moment. It's the moment, if you ask me that question, virtually every event, I give you the same answer, and certainly on this event. It is, you know, the moment of time between the anthems and the first bell. And that's when, as someone involved in the business aspect, that's when everything has come together.

And what you've been doing for the last 10 weeks, you know, is you see the embodiment of that. You can literally look around the arena. You feel the energy. You know, it's about to happen. And you feel like, okay, this is what we've been working 10 weeks for. because at a certain point, a lot of it feels intangible and far off. So you do marketing, you know, you come up with marketing plans, you do all these things. But that's when it hits home that it's actually happening.

You can see the embodiment of all your team's hard work, you know, in the excitement that people have, in the arena, in the telecast. You know, that's, you, you ask them about sort of, when do you sort of, you smell the flowers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, that's one moment for me. It's that time, that's the moment I smell the flowers, you know, because to me, there's no moment like that in any other sport. You know, it's not, whether it's before kickoff or in the NBA overtime, there's, for me, there's nothing that matches that energy, that intensity, that anticipation, you know, right out of walkouts and before the final bell. That's why I love combat sports. I must say, no one will really care about this.

one of my favorite parts of covering this event was just sort of, you know, covering Elite XC and covering Strike Force was a lot of fun because it's different. You know, the UFC, I'm fine with them, but it's, you know, same people all the time. Getting to reconnect with people like Chris de Blasio, PR, and some of your production staff and Matt Donovan, people like that, you know, these aren't household names to the average viewer, but it was fun to sort of get back into the showtime and do interviews with you and things of that nature. And I know that the team, and I wanted to end on this note, I know that the team, and I want to end on this note,

I know that the team had a heavy heart because you lost a member of the team, a valued member, maybe 30 years, Earl Fash. Earl Fash had been with us 35 years. He started in the mailroom straight out of college in 1982, which is four years before Showtime Sports even started. So he was creative director, which involved him in everything from features to promos to, you know, to interstitials, virtually everything. He probably produced maybe 10,000 pieces of content. It's no exaggeration to say that he was a piece of, he was part of every single showtime sports event that we'd ever done. Events shows he was there from the beginning until just a few weeks before the Mayweather-McGregor fight.

So I'm very sorry for his passing. He had a chance to see him at a few Strikeforce events. I mean, a hard guy to miss. Very tall individual. And I know he was such a big part of the team. and so I know that the whole group was sort of feeling his loss very much. Yeah, definitely.

I appreciate you recognizing that and I'm sure a lot of, you know, a lot of people worked winning for 20 plus years within the company. You got more of a reaction for you being in studio than anyone on this show today. Oh, that's cool. It's crazy.

People love you. But I feel like they almost want to see you rage out. Yeah, why? You feel like there's an expectation? Yeah, I don't like it anymore. Yeah. So we're going the opposite way. Mellow.

I'm not going out of it. I'm just, You feel like there's pressure that people think that you're some kind of like act? Yeah, like I go out at night and people are like, oh, let's do shots, let's go crazy. Volante's the worst. Oh, really? Yeah, he really is. I don't like him.

He tries to perpetuate this? Yeah, he's the worst. So you try to stay away from him? It's hard. He's just a big kid, right? He really is a big kid. Yeah. But it's fun.

He lives in like the, Long Beach, Long Island is like the best place in the world. All my friends move down there. So it's like if I want to go hang out with anybody, it's Long Beach. and just big party. Big trouble. Right. But it's fun. So he gets you to do that a lot.

He wants you to drink. He wants you to rage, take off your shirt, go nuts. Yeah, he's the worst. And you try to stay away from that? Yeah. I try. But you feel like online the fans are trying to like always bait you into going on? No, I think they just want me to kind of just get back in there and fight.

Okay. I feel like there's a lot of people just want me to see me fight. They miss you. Yeah, it's really cool. So where are we at? I am. We're back. We're back to like two years ago where I had knee injury and they didn't know whether I was going to fight again and we're always going to come back and we're going to fight again.

I messed up my knee again, a little bit training. Sorry to hear that. Yeah, so I was surgery, not surgery. I think we're going to try to go the non-surgery route this time and heal it up and hopefully fight in the next couple months. Is this the same knee? It's the other knee now. Oh, wow. Yeah, so I messed up this one pretty bad.

I'm compensating for it. Putting a lot of weight on the other knee. Now the other knee is kind of feeling the effects of the right knee. That happened, right? Yeah, I guess so. I feel like pain in my back even just from like, I guess I'm walking weird or something. But I've been doing physical therapy.

I've been going to the, I don't know if you saw all the sports science lab stuff in Staten Island that I've been going to. These guys are the best. I walk in there and they treat me like a king. They, you know, they, they, uh, from the time I get there till the time I leave is like three hours and I'm going from boom, boom, boom, you know, one thing for the next, they're on top of me. And, uh, it takes me an hour and a half to drive there, an hour and a half to drive there. It's like a full day process, you know, um, but it's worth it for me to go there and see those guys, Dr. Piazza at Sports Science Lab, he's been so giving to me and his whole staff.

I really can't thank those guys enough because they got me to the last fight, healthy, and then once this happened, it wasn't even, it was just, you know, whatever, don't worry about it. Whatever the injury is, we're going to get you back in there. And I believe him, 100%. When did this happen? This was the day after the 4th of July.

Oh, wow. Okay. It was like two months ago. And what happened? I was really just wrestling around. I'm just rolling and my knee got twisted out a little bit. I didn't even hear a pop. It was just kind of like I felt, I knew right away that something wasn't, I was like, whoa, that's not going to be good.

And then I tried putting weight on it and it was bad. I tore my PCL and I sprained my MCO. But it's not, the PCL you really don't need. PCL, I guess you can, athletes have competed at a high level without that. They just want to see how my MCL is healing and it's healing pretty good. So I think we're in good shape.

Okay, so you don't think you'll need surgery? Yeah, I don't think so. Wow. Yeah. So it's not as serious as the first one. Because the first one you probably needed surgery, right? Well, it's just two totally different injuries. Okay.

Yeah, the first one, it was the kind of thing where I had this surgery, and they were like, you might not, you might not be able to fight again. were going to be able to live. You know, I couldn't, I was at the, my wits end, I was at the, you know, it was like a last ditch effort anyway. Yeah, yeah. And I got the surgery.

You know, I had some pretty good results and good enough to where I got back in, back in there for it again. So, it was good. You, you've hinted at this, but the word is you didn't do a lot of training going into the Diego fight. Can you tell us now? Can you tell us about it? You got to, I mean, I can tell you, but you got to ask Ray.

Tell us, tell us. Tell us. You're here. It's 400. Tell us. How crazy was this? It was crazy. I could tell Ray didn't.

Ray really didn't believe I think he kind of thought I was just going in there for a payday or something. How many hours did you spend at the gym? I spent a lot of time at the gym, but I was doing more like physical therapy rehab. I was doing circuits and stuff.

I hit pads, so they said they wanted to film me one day and I was like, oh man, I don't know what they're going to film. I can't, I've been swimming. I swam every day. I was in probably some of the best, shape I've been in but just not in like fighting shape you know I didn't I was I was going in there a little unsure not of just I hadn't been usually before I fight I

have you know I don't know 10 to 20 hard sparring sessions where the end of the five three on three five minute rounds sometimes four five minute rounds and at the end I'm exhausted but I know I'm I'm like ready you know I never really had that for this fight so I was kind of a little unsure and I just remember getting into the locker room and warming up and I was like oh man my knee's not feeling good I said to algebra I was like you should I ice my knee right now like what should I do and he was like let's just warm up and you know go in there and and fight and I warmed up and thank God it started feeling better but it was like there was no I hit pads maybe a couple times I said I spored lightly one

time one or two times and and race so I I think Ray was kind of a little he was like I don't know if I'm I think him and Matt were kind of like, what's going? I don't even, we haven't seen you, you haven't been, you know, and I came into the gym maybe like three or four weeks before the fight, and I was in sick shape. They could see, you know, I've been putting the work in, and they, you know, they, you know, they, you know, like, all, well, this is the craziest thing we've ever seen,

but we got your back, and, and I went in there, and I had been going to the sports science lab in Staten Island, and because I hadn't been doing all the, excuse me, who's calling me right now? You're calling you in the middle of the show. Who could this be? I don't know. It's probably Aljo.

He's jealous that you're on the show. This house is her shirt. Island boy. That's his new name? This is his new company. Oh, really? I like it. Yeah, yeah.

I saw you rocking the gold chain? Yeah. Is that a real one or is he still on the fake one? No, I hope he doesn't buy a real one. Okay. That'd be just silly. Okay. Back to the story, yes.

You said you were going to sports science. And they do vision training, whereas like your eyes, you're training your eyes. It's something that I don't think anyone's really doing. You know, they have machines that are really expensive equipment that's just dedicated towards training your eyes. Your eyes are muscle. Like anything else, you can work on your peripheral vision, your hand-eye coordinate, depth perception, all these things. and because I wasn't wrestling too much and I wasn't doing so much Jiu-Jitsu

I really just focused on that and I really just I saw, I kind of just saw that fight happening the way it was just a straight right hand at the end it gave me a lot of confidence and my father actually just the reason we ended up there

was I've been doing this kind of training these kind of exercises for a while and because I saw so much success my father was like dude we should open up a place where people just train their vision. Back in the day it was, you know, strength and conditioning. I don't think anyone really did strength and conditioning. You know, then one guy did strength and conditioning.

Guy saw the results. Everyone's doing strength and conditioning. Nutrition. Babe Ruth's eating hot dogs and baseballs. Now everyone's got a new diet to nutrition plan. I think this sports vision thing is kind of the next, this might be the next thing where, you know, you're training your eyes. it's the most important thing in baseball and lacrosse and hockey anything picking up you know something coming at you and reacting to it um so i had been doing a ton of that and i really could see

i watched the fight afterwards as i was visualizing the whole fight how it was going to happen i would drive to statin island it would take an hour and a half every day and i was just i saw the fight happened a million times in my head and i saw it happen the worst way i saw it happen the best way and the way the fight happened, it was really like the best, you know, I got hit once. It was like the best case scenario. I just saw the right hand. I hit it. Perfect.

I had my eyes open. I was just, I was seeing everything. I felt like everything was happening. Even being off for two and a half years or whatever it was, two years. Yeah. Being laid out, guys talking about ring rust. I just, I saw everything. I felt focused.

I felt like my brain was just working in a different way. So I think this, this sports vision training is kind of a, a new thing that people are going to be doing. And I think it's going to help out a lot, for sure. So if you would have been in a flight where it went like three rounds and was a war up and down, do you think you would have lasted? Or because... Yeah, I mean, I feel like...

Would the knee have held up? Yeah, the knee would have held up. Okay. It's... Yeah, no, I wasn't feeling anything in there. I would have felt it maybe afterwards. But no, my knee, it was... It's just, it's...

If I work out, if I, back then when I was working out, if I was working out, like five times hard in a week, you know, I start really feeling it. You know, so I had to kind of be really careful of what I did, you know. The swimming was great, you know, nothing on my knees, great cardio, full body workout. The circuits I was doing, I was working around the knee. But now I'm, now this knee's good. Now I got to worry about this one. Once I get this one good, you know.

So you will fight again. You believe that. Yeah, I believe it. Do you want to fight again? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. It's like, I mean, it's like something's been, whenever I'm not fighting, you know, I feel like, excuse me, I feel like I'm the best, my life is like the most structured and organized. I made more money selling real estate when I had a fight coming up. I had my, you know, everything, my diet, everything's good.

When I have a fight coming up, there's nothing. I'm like on point, you know. I mean. So I get a good schedule, regimen, and it's like nothing matters except for that day, you know, when I'm about to fight. So I just, everything kind of works out. Where do things stand between you and the UFC? I don't know. I really don't know. Did you get a new deal? Get a new deal? No. No. Because you fought in April on the old deal. I think we were like kind of working towards one and then I got hurt. So it was kind of like, no, but I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what happens.

remember correctly you had the meeting in Dallas, right? Yeah. Your dad was there. Uh-huh. It was moving in the right direction. You had the retreat. That didn't really go as planned, right? Yeah, I kind of fell off the hand.

I kind of went a little crazy. You regret that? Uh, I regret a lot of things about that, yeah. Really? Like what? Could you share? Just crazy. I don't know.

Just getting crazy. I just not a good look, a lot of the things. But. I feel like we're seeing a different. ally quinta here like an evolved ally quinta maybe a more mature one from the last couple months? I don't know I think I don't know about that

I mean that was one of the more yeah that was out of control you regret that you regret like that those 72 hours or whatever yeah the water gun and all that stuff yeah that was a little out of control and the show uh yeah

but um I forget what I was going to say we were talking about something else Oh I forget Go ahead What was I What was I gonna say Well I said that you

Oh just just not fight I feel like fighting a lot When I'm when I don't know I feel like my whole life stops when I fight You know In a good way In a good way In

I feel like my whole life My whole life is just dedicated to fighting Okay You know I'm not like evolving But now since I haven't been fighting I'm kind of doing other things I'm kind of enjoying

maybe enjoying things more. I'm so happy to see you. Yeah. For many reasons. Why? Let's first get the elephant out of the room. Elephant. I thought that you were pissed at me for a long time.

Oh, that's funny, because I was going to bring that up first too. Okay, you are pissed. Or were pissed at me. Let me explain. Okay, let's clear the air before we get into it. I can't wait. Okay. All right.

So my friend Ariel, you. Yes. Day after my fight, day after my big fight, I get, you know, which one? A sage fight. Sage, okay. Sage fight. So I get, you know, I get my stitches cut open.

I get, I'm out drinking that night partying. You ask me, like, hey, I'd like you get on the show, two times in a row, I know it's weird, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, my friend Ariel, yeah, I'll do it, of course. Thank you, right? So then, unbeknownst to me, you bring Dan Hardy on it without telling me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What the fuck?

Yeah, you were pissed. What the fuck, dude, why don't you tell me the kid who's been talking shit, the smart kid who has a mouth? Yeah. You don't tell me, I could have lit his ass up. But instead, I'm half hung over. I set my alarm. I was up all night.

I got the continental breakfast in the free connell breakfast in the morning, because I was up all night. Yeah. But I'm like, I'll get up for Ariel's show. I appreciate it. And then, so that's the year,

that's why I text you back all summer. So you were pissed me off. Because I wanted, I, you know, I wanted that fight. Oh,

Ariel's friends with Dan Hardy, then, you know, if you're my friend, I'll break my back hill for you. But you're not my friend, so fuck you. So we're not friends anymore? Um,

you've been downgraded to like, that, like, like, like, like, like, MMA media guy.

And, you know, here's a thing. Okay. You, you, like you, you're a wrestling fan. I think you are kind of a, a character in this whole MMA game. Really? Yeah, I think you take on, you're like, that kind of, you sometimes you like to be like a schmucky reporter.

You like to antagonize. You like to, you know, you know, I think I just, I'm just me. Sometimes I'm a schmuck. Oh, you're just telling that? Well, no, like, what do you mean? You think I'm playing a role? I think, yeah, yeah. And like, for fans, it's great, but you're going to piss off fighters along the way a lot.

And you have been doing that. And as a journalist, you're always going to piss off people. right? I guess so. I mean, it's actually not our job to be your friend. Why do you? Yeah, no, I know. But, you know, you, when I was out in Montreal, you're like, hey, check out this place. But I'm out here, I thought we're friends. He put me on the show, put me out again. You know, he gave me exposure. I thought it was, you know, I'm always, I thought I was doing you a favor. Can I tell you why? Why don't you fucking tell me first? Because you were on the air and so I asked you. Remember I asked you? I said in the interview, we have Dan Hardy, do you want to talk to him? And you said, yes. Hey, because what am I going to say, uh, no? Well, you should have told me before. Come on. You were trying to like, you were trying to like, pull one on me, right? Absolutely not. God is my witness. I was not. But why do you just tell me before I even start the call? Just so I could like, defog my brain and you know what I mean? So here's the thing. He was on after you. So I had to ask you on the air. There's no way for me to communicate with you beforehand.

You didn't know who's going to be on the night before? I didn't know. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know that we were going to put you on together. And I thought Mickey Gall is exceptionally smart. He's quick on his feet. He's quick on over. I said, I didn't know that. I was an alarm for you. I was like, it's an alarm for you. you. I barely sleep. I'm partying. I just won. I just won a big fight. You're 100% right. But how am I supposed to know that? No, no, no. What I was trying to do was to expedite your parade. I was trying to get you the fight. If you just told me, if you just told me, we would have, I would have blown that shit up. I know, I know, I know. I would call him a pussy and scared when he said,

you want to fight. I was just like, uh, you know what I called him out. So I'm like, here he is. Here he is. I know, but you, you call him sleeping, literally. But I didn't know that. How much just say, just say, just give me one, give me for, like, for, for, you wanted a. You wanted a. beforehand. Anything. You wanted a heads up. Before we got on the call,

hey, just anything. Anything. Yeah, yeah. A heads up would have been cool and I could, you know, I just, would you have said yes. Given your state, given the fact that you said you were retired. Yeah, and I would have had, I would have had, you know, I would have had stuff.

Yeah. But that shows how much respect I have for you. You're so quick on your feet. Thanks. I was, yeah, I was still probably, I'd been drinking the night before. I don't, I don't drink much. Sure, sure. Yeah.

But no one has done what you've done. I mean, you came in, the way you've come in, that's part of your story, right? You called up punk and then you had the next one ready. And then you had the next one ready. And then you had the Dan Hardy one ready. And let's be honest, that one didn't like hit the home run that maybe you thought it would. I didn't think I was getting a Dan Hardy fight. So what was?

I thought I got the first two. I was tossing up a real hell and merry. Yeah. But why did you go that far? Well, especially, now listen, you want to see quick on my feet. Sure. I knew I cut myself open. Yeah.

And I did, you know, I had a couple people on my plate that I depend on. And I was like, fuck. I'm going to have to be out sick. months now. I, the cut, originally I got before Sam Punk, doctor was like, yo, he's like, you can't fight for six months. If you, and I fought in three weeks against Sam Punk. And then I fought like three months later against Sage, all within that six months where

I shouldn't rest in. So then I cut it and I figured Dan Hardy I'd at least get a little, by myself a little time. The way that fight would be ready. Maybe it'd be a couple, it'd be a few months. But if I call like certain guys out of then I'm right back in there. So I want a little time and I've ended up having a lot of time and I've done a lot of good shit with my time.

Okay. I'm really proud of what I did. I'm putting a lot of work. Okay. And I'm going to fuck up Randy Brown. Yeah, well, this is why I wanted to have you on. So I can see, I have a good sense when it comes to these things. I sense that you were pissed because I reached out to you a couple times.

Yeah, I didn't text you back. Yeah, why? Why don't you just say, Aaron, you're an Ahole? Because I still was, I still was holding my hope that I get that Dan Hardy fight. And you were on dance, you were, I was like, oh, this dance friend. I was, stop. I'm, I'm not. Really?

Yeah. I was, God is my witness. I was trying to get you the fight. I was trying to expedite things. Listen. Brother, you should have said one. do say one more before. The way I was thinking was here you are national television asking for Dan Hardy.

Why don't I get you Dan Hardy? Get you Dan Hardy on the phone. Yeah, absolutely. Like, I don't need I kind of like, I was kind of like, I was kind of like, I was kind of like happy at the moment. Like, you know what I mean? Like I rained on the parade. No, like, no, listen, I'm saying I was like on the phone I was almost like a little content for a moment. Like I, you know what I mean? Like I just got a fight. I'm chilling. I was sure. Chilling my friends. And then yeah, it was just sudden. I just wasn't right. I was like, uh, all right, man.

So like I was like I just wasn't prepared. I was not prepared. I thought I was just calling in to just be like, hey, talk about the fight, just whatever, light shit. Yeah, I will. So that misstep downgrades me. Like all the work you've been on the show before multiple times in studio. Brought you down.

Because yeah, well, now that I'm not fighting your buddy Dan Hardy. Okay. Yeah, we could be friends again. Maybe. I mean, you got, with your friends up back in the circle. I actually told, I, guys might be. as I told New York Rick, before the show started, the producer in the back, the guy with the bad hair, I said, I was shocked when you wrote back to me. I didn't think you would write back

to me. Because I sense that you were mad at me. Why did you say? Yeah, I mean, I wanted to say it, but I'm not going to, I didn't feel like calling you. So I didn't see you. This is the first time I saw you. Sure, sure. That's what we're talking about now. Wow. And, and not only was I downgraded, I'm also a schmucky reporter who plays a role. I know what you do. You like to put, you like to, you like to get a rise out of people. You like to antagonize it. What does that mean, though? I'm just doing my job. You are doing your job. Yeah.

But am I just asking you doing your job for the fans? But the fighters, you're going to, yeah, you're going to, like, I,

there's plenty of, you can look up Ariel Hawaiian, fighters getting pissed off Aral Hawaiian compilations. That's such BS. That's such BS. I have devoted so much time to the sport. Why would I want to be on bad terms with fighters?

This is my life. This is my livelihood. If you don't like me, you don't want to, you don't want to be on bad terms, but you don't mind getting a rise out and antagonize and poking and, and it.

You're off on this one. I think you're very smart. You're off. You know why? There's a difference in wanting to get a rise and asking questions that sometimes aren't the most comfortable questions. Sometimes there are situations that aren't the best that need to be addressed. Ray Borg was just on. You know, he blew it.

Got sick, got another shot. But I want to talk to him about it. He may not have liked all the questions, but we still have to talk about it, right? That's not me wanting to get a rise out of him. That's just me asking questions about the situation. It's not always positive, right? It's not always. Everyone kisses your butt over the past year.

Rookie of the year. Call it CM Punk. You're so great. so you know sometimes you gotta ask I like I liked how you had my back with a little bit with Kevin Lee was talking sharing show

that fucking idiot oh yeah yeah yeah I know he I don't really I don't watch the show even though you're mad at me no because I heard that because people tell me about it because he called me out no I've done

I've watched less MMA shows okay okay so I'm just I'm in it I'm deep in it I train all the time okay I mean so but no I pay attention man I still pay attention I still got love Here, on the air, I apologize for putting you on the spot. That wasn't my intention. Honestly, my intention was to try to expedite the process.

All I'm saying, just give me a lot of. Is someone anyone coming in today? Yeah, CM Punk is going to walk in. What is the announcement? I'm stepping out of the cage. I'm coming here today to announce my retirement of the MMA. Was the toughest walk in today to come to your studio because it's hard to make this announcement,

but I talk a lot of my family, my friends, my friends, my coach. And that's the time. You know, I have new focus, new things to do on my career as a coach. So that's the thing to do in the moment. So you are officially retiring from MMA today. It is official. How hard is it for you to say that? It's very hard.

You know, it was a long journey. You know, I loved the MMA. I love training, cut weight. but I'd have to have some surgeries before on my retina on my eye, you know. I'm focused on that 100% of my life during this 15 years. So it's time to step back. My mom asked this for me for a long time, you know. And that was a hard decision, but that's the thing that we have, you know.

I think it was a smart one. So you were kind of encouraged, you were pushed to do this, you didn't really want to do it? Some circumstances bring me that. Okay. Right. I just opened a huge school in Brazil now. Oh, wow. Yeah, I plan to open here in New York, too. So now I come from three loss. You know, the last two was really bad because I feel something in effect for my surgery on my eye. Oh, wow.

You know, my eyes 100%, thank God. But that's that's behind of my mind, you know. So it's the good thing to do now, you know. I think it's a good decision. My mom are happy with this decision. She asked me this for a long time. I talk to my coach and everybody. Like I agree. Say, okay, if that's what you want, and I think I'm happy, I'm going to be happy with this decision.

What do you feel in your eye when you're fighting? Like when someone punches you, does it feel a little different? No, no, no, I don't feel nothing. Okay. Which eye is it? The left eye. The left eye.

And when did this happen? In a fight? We never know. We don't know. Oh, just over time. Yes, yes. Okay. Over time.

So I don't have nothing. The doctor said that I'm 100% to fight. Okay. You know, but when you have a search, and you always scare a little bit. Yeah, of course. And this affect me on my last two fights a lot because I have a surgery after the interim champion

and so, It's her. Yeah, and after that, I really feel a lot, you know. So I think that's the time, you know. I need to focus on another thing, move on, you know. I have another focus now. So when you fought back in July on Long Island against Eric Anders, did you know that that was going to be your last fight when you walked out of the cage that night?

Did you know that that was going to be? No. Your final fight? No, after team Boisht, you know, in the Massachusetts Square Garden, we start to talk about, you know, because I have a search like a few months before of this fight. And then we see, listen, let's fight again. Let's see how it's going to be. You know, this fight was tough.

Andre is a really tough guy. But my opponent changed like for four times. So that's hard, you know. It's changed to relative to South Pole. But that's not excuse me, you know. But I really feel a lot. Who's watching for a long time? know that I never give up on my fights. I always fight forward. You know, and this fight was

really scared about getting hit on my eye, you know. So that's affecting my performance for sure. And after the site, we have a big meeting, we talk a lot, and that's the decision we have now. Wow. So you were surrounded by people that are a part of your career who care about you and you guys kind of came together and at the end of the meeting, you decided that it was time. Yes, yes. When was that? Like one week ago. We talked about. We talked about. that like the last few months. I was in Brazil talked to my family,

and then I come back, talk to my coach, talk to my manager, Ali Abda Aziz, a big friend of mine, Hanso de Racolino. And they say, man, if that's where you feel now, we are with you, we believe in you a lot, that you can make a lot of noise with this division. But if that's why you want, now we are with you, and I think that's the smart decision to do now.

So you had a four-fight winning streak, and then after that three losses in a row, does it bother you that you end on a loss, that you walk away on a losing streak, does that bother you? Yeah, no, for sure. Of course, bother me, you know, I'd like to be different, of course. But with this thing about

the eye affect my performance, I can't say, oh, I'm going to make one more fight to say goodbye. I don't know, that's hard for me. I don't want to be like that, you know, don't give my, like an easy opponent because I have no easy opponents. But I'm very happy with my career, you know, very happy with my performance. I have a lot of things that I really want, you know.

So I'm happy. I'm happy with this decision. I have one main event in the FC against St. Kennedy. I have a fight of the night. I have a submission. I have a knockout. So I think it was a great career. It's not because I come from three loss in a row. That's going to be making me feel bad or feeling worse. But no, there's not about that. I'm very happy with everything that I have, everything that MMA gives me on this life. Are you going to continue to compete? I mean, of course, your background is Jiu Jitsu.

Will you try to be active in Jiu-Jitsu competitions or are you going to retire from all active competition? No, I can't. I'm going to keep compete. Okay. A lot of people, I talk to a few people, my coach, Dracuino, say, man, let's compete in Jujitsu. Like the Panam, the world champion at the end of the year. I said, no, coach. I need at least this year. Let me rest a little bit.

Yeah. But I want to compete. You know, I want to keep competing. I want to keep training. I want to keep training parts of mine about that. They say, man, we need you keep training for us. I will. I will keep training.

Box, my Thai. I'm not going to stop because I love that. Right. I love training. I love cut the weight, you know. So I'm going to keep training. but I'm going to keep competing in Jiu Jitsu. I love that.

I compete in Jiu Jitsu for a long time. I were champion. So I'm going to next year I'm going to come back to compete in Jiu Jitsu for sure. You've been fighting professionally since 2005. 2005, yeah. And so now you're a free man, right? You have no fights attached to you. You're not tied to any promotion.

What is it like not having a fight on the horizon in your mind, on your calendar? Oh, I need to get ready for December 15th or November 4 or something like that. What's that like for you mentally? Man, that's, I'm feeling lighter now. Say it true for you. I never feel like that. Since the day, one, they decided to be a fighter. I say, I want to be a fighter.

I was 20 years old. I said, Mom, I want to be a fighter. I want to be professional. I focus everything on that. I focus everything on that, you know. Even when I was a vacation, when I have a surgeries, I have a three stories on my hands. I say, man, my focus always was my career. You know, I have a relationship, and I always my career, my career.

And now, like, two weeks ago, three friends, of mine and my girlfriend come and say, listen, you look light, you look like, something happened, what's happened? I said, well, nothing. And I think it was that, you know? Wow. I can watch the fights now and don't think, I want to fight with this guy or if you're going to put me against somebody else.

Like, nothing like that now, you know, I don't need to worry about cut weight. I need to worry about beat somebody. I just want to have fun now, enjoy my retirement, you know, and next year I'll go back to compete and start to watch the guys, but in Jiu's not in the MMA. So you mentioned that you decided to become a fighter when you were 20. Why did you decide to become a fighter? I started to train in Jiu-Jitsu, and I started to watch some fights like Marker, like the Holf, Hansel, Roy, and then I say, man, that's what I want to do in my life.

You know? I was in Jiu-Jitsu for one month, and I started to watch this guy and say, man, I want to be an M. So you're only training for one month in Jiu-Tat. Once you were in then I decided that. Wow. Yeah. Because I trained in a couple of years before. I started in a couple of year before.

I have a 14 years old. And I have a lot of fights in Capoeira, right? And then some guys from Jiu-Jit start to beat me up under Capoeira, and then I started training Jijits. And after one month I say, that's what I do of my life. It was fast decision.

So who got you into Jiu-Too? Was it just guys you were training with some guys? My brother. Okay. I was in Capuera, and my brother started training Jiu-Its. My brother always respect me a lot. Okay. And then after he got his yellow belt,

he was like one-year training, he started to look me up like that, have some attitude, different, you know. And then I say, I'm going to start to train him. And then I'm going to start to train Jijit. So I'm getting in love. And I said, that's what I'm going to do of my life, you know.

And I was my debit, my first MMA fight. I was a blue belt. Okay. The beginning of my blue belt, you know? And were you an MMA fan, even when you were just training Capoeira? Were you watching MMA? Did you know about it? Or only once you started training in M.

Only when I started training Jijit. Okay. Where did you grow up in Brazil, right? In Brazil, Belarus, okay. And so were there any famous guys that came out of there that you were able to be in contact with or look up to? No, I have some guys

like Dracolino have an MMA team like Marcelo O'Rapuru, Eric van der Leigh, Mamucci have some guys that fight already. Eric fought against Shogun, you know? So when I watch these guys say, man, that's what I want to do my career, you know? What did your mom say when you told her you wanted to do that? She said that I'm out of my mind because

I work with her since I was 12 to 20 years old. My mom has stores. Oh. Sell clothes, shoes, and I just work with her. I have my own store. When I was 18 and when it turned 20, I said, Mom, I don't want nothing of that before. She said, you're crazy. You have your career here.

You're doing so good. I say, yeah, but it's not about money. It's about that. That's what I want to do, you know. And she said, you're crazy. You shouldn't do that. You know, but I say, Mom, I want to doing something that's making me happy. You know, I want to fight.

I want to be a fighter. It was crazy because imagine that like 15 years ago. Of course, yeah, yeah. But on the end of the day, she agreed with me. She gave me a lot of support, my father, my girlfriend, you know. so I have a lot of support on my career. Any message for the fans? Your Brazilian fans, your American fans

who have supported you, anything you want to say to them. Yeah, it's, man, I have a lot of people to thanks, you know? I'd like to think all my coach, you know, Dracolino, Hansel, Phil, Roman, Eric Jones, a lot of guys that support me a lot since I'm in America, you know? Aliazibda, this is

not just my manager, but my big friend, that's one of the guys that most support me when I moved to New York, you know? My family, my girlfriend, UFC for me give me this amazing time there A lot of people talk about UFC, about Dono White, about this and that, but I love everything that they give me, you know, all the stuff have gives me a great support, Joyce Silva,

all these guys, you know, you and the guys, they always give me a great support, a great time, I'm very thankful for that. So a lot of people say, how you make your career? My career was one thing, when I decided to be a fighter, every door that I locked, the people open for me. You know, every support that I ask, the people give us support.

So it's easy to make a career like that. You know, everybody gives an amazing support. And the only guy that I have a problem in my own my fights was, I have a problem with him in the 18. That's his name. An opponent? Yes. Oh, when you had.

Ryan Hall. Yes, Ryan Hall. Yes, of course. The only guy in my mom always says, listen, you're so good for everyone. What's happening between you and his? say, mom, this was me, was him. That's the only thing that I regret on my career. And when the UFC make the meeting there in Las Vegas, the huge meeting in the beginning

of the year, this year, and he looked to me and come to me and say, stop, I apologize, I make the mistake, I have some mis and underserved about you. Everybody's talk so good about you. And I say, man, thank God. I have no enemies on this sport. Do you know, we talk with each other. Everything was... What happened?

I don't know this story. What happened? Some people say some bad things about me for him. Okay. And then he comes to fight with me. I was very angry on the 18, he pushed me. Really? Where was that? At a UFC fight?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He pushed you. Yeah, yeah. Where, backstage? No, no, on the 18. Really? Yes. Okay. These make a lot of noise, you know? So a lot of people say, man, Sapp was always a good guy. What happened? I say, well, it was me, you know? And then after maybe two years now, he came to talk to me and say it was a misunderstood,

you know? Some people say some lie to him about me. and thank God I have no problem with anyone everybody support me a lot Draculino that take me since my blue belt until now

he always believe me a lot all of my coats always give me a great support you know so I'm thank you for everyone that's the message that I have to the people all my fans that support me a lot everybody always believe me that I can I can fight always better

you know so thank all my fans all my family my coach my students it was an amazing journey I don't know. It was an amazing time, but now it's time to move up and do something else. You're a class act, Sapo. I appreciate it very much.

I appreciate you coming in. I congratulate you on a great career. I know it's hard to say goodbye, right? It is. Yeah. It's been such a big part of your career for so long. But I really appreciate it. And you've given us some great fights, some great memories.

And it has been an honor and a privilege to cover your career. And I'm happy that you're still sticking around in the sport, especially here in New York. We can use some good people covering the, uh, competing in the sport and training and helping the younger generation. Thank you, I feel so bad about the people, what happened in Las Vegas, right? Yeah. Yesterday, I'm very thankful because I come from my country, from Brazil, and live here, and the people always treat me very well.

Yeah. I feel I'm a home and here. A lot of people say, ah, you have a lot of problems with you're present now, but the people always threaten me very well. all the Americans give me a great support, a great time. Here's my second home. A lot of people ask me, when you retire,

you're going to come back to Brazil, you know, I want to stay here. You know, I want to open my academy here. New York, the USA, give me a lot of things, a lot of things. I'm very blessed with that.

You know, thank God for my amazing career. Thank God for my, I have a great time here. For every, all the Americans threat to me very well, like I'm American, you know. So I just have to thank all the, of them and I'm open to help everyone that need them. I'm always going to be here.

I'm always going to be around the MMA. I'm going to be proud. Yeah, I wish there were more people like you in this sport. You've always been a class act with the media and with the fellow fighters. And I share your sentiments as far as Las Vegas is concerned. I think we all kind of feel a connection to Las Vegas. And so today is a very hard day. And I know there's a lot of emotion involved, especially for your career.

It's always hard to say goodbye when you've been immersed in a sport for so long. So hang in there, my man. Thank you, brother. You have a lot to be proud of. You've had a great career. You have a lot to be proud of as far as your country and your family. They should be very proud of you. And you've represented the sport of MMA with class and dignity. So, congratulations to you. Thank you very much. Good pleasure. Thank you. Enjoy it. And good luck. Yeah, let us know where it is. And we'll hopefully be able to stop by if it's in the area and go check it out. Life is easier. A lot. You know, I end up my career also. I'm not going to continue to 40 or something. So I feel like different stage of my career. I like it more.

I'm more comfortable now. Is this your last contract, do you think? After six fights, if I'm the champion, there's extension. But after that, it's probably six. It depends all. If I win them all, I will continue. If I lose, win, you know, I don't want to be that guy. Sure.

If I keep winning, the three extra fight, nine fights, I will be probably 35. Right. It's enough. That's enough. Yeah, it's enough. What do you think you'll do when you're done other than having a lot of kids? Make children probably. Take care of kids.

Just don't have any skills, you know. That's it, nothing? Mow the grass. That's what I like. Easy life. You like more of the grass? Yeah, yeah, that's nice. If it's sunny only, otherwise, I don't know.

Otherwise, my brother. If it's cloudy, you're not going to bother. My brother does that always. But if it's sunny and I'm nothing to do, I like it to do that. Do you have one of those, like, cars or do you push it? No, just sit and. Oh, you sit on it. Yeah, yeah, that's cool.

I have a yard. I live in a farm now, so. You live in a farm? Yeah, I'm a farm. Since when? Since this year. Wow. Yeah.

How big is it? Not, I don't know. In U.S., everything is small, but it's pretty big in Holland. It's not that big. I don't have cows or anything. Do you have any animal? No, no, no. I wanted to have a dog, but my mother doesn't like it. Too much hair, she says. But I like dogs who are hypoallergenic that don't shed.

You know, like the Portuguese water dogs. My mother is tough. She's tough to negotiate. Is your mother from the Middle East? Yeah, yeah. See, me too. Yeah. My mom's from Lebanon.

My dad's from Egypt. They want nothing to do with dogs. No, we love animals. I feel like Middle Easterns don't want dogs in their house. All my relatives, my grandmother, they were on dogs. We can have the outside, but she's not in the house. Not in the house. Outside, actually I have a pretty big garden.

So it's possible. Now why did you guys move to a farm? So we can all live together. Oh. Yeah. I'm close with my family. So you want to live with your family. Yeah, definitely.

Even though you're 30-something years old. Yeah, why not? I don't understand people putting their mother into, you know. Sure. I don't know, it's different culture but, you know, my mother will be with me always. How old is she?

58. 58. Yes. Does she come to your fights? No, no, my mother's not like it. Come on. My mother, after the result, if it's good, she probably watch it.

She won't watch it live. No, my mother doesn't know internet. She's not going to wake up for her. Well, she's awake. My friend always called her after the fight that everything is okay. And I call her after the fight, but she's not going to look

for a live stream, you know. Right. Not that. You know, I was thinking, I was thinking, is my mom going to text me right now? My mom watches the show all four hours every week. Well, we should talk about mothers. She just texted me. She just texted me right now.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, because I mentioned the dogs. Oh, okay. So she would do the same thing. She probably wouldn't watch if I was a fighter. Of course, I can't be a fighter. I'm too big of a wuss. But wait till afterwards. Yes.

And my mom, I always ask about how things go. Would she prefer if you're not a fighter? Not this moment. Not anymore. it doesn't matter. Initially? She says stop. It's better to stop, but what I'm going to do after if I quit?

There's not much for me to do. And you're doing well. I'm winning. I'm in my prime, I believe. So I'm not going to stop. I feel I'm at my best. Who got you into this initially, like way back when? Well, I had a fight.

My friend wanted me to fight this guy, me and my friend were to beat him. And then I went to boxing because we felt good. What? As a kid, I don't, shit is a story. What do you mean? Your friend wanted you to fight a guy on the street? No, no, no. He was at school and this guy was harassing him.

And he said, I can't do anything because they're going to throw me out of school. Okay. So come from teaching him a lesson. We went there just kids, pushed him. How old? He felt on the ground. 15. Okay.

He felt on the ground. My friend kicked his bag or something. Nothing. He didn't kick his ass. Sure, sure, sure. After that, we thought, okay, we go train. We go train and we went to boxing. And you had no prior experience.

in martial arts prior to that? Well, I had done judo. Okay. And I was always into fitness. I always had sport. I'd sport it every day almost. Okay. Like what kind of sports did you like?

Football? No, I don't, I'm not talented in anything. Nothing. I just can average, very average. I can throw a ball. I can kick a ball. But don't expect me to do drill, you know. I love the idea of you coming in there and pushing the kid.

Did you actually do the pushing or were you just there as like a bodyguard? Which kid? You know, in high school, when your friend asked you... Oh, yeah, yeah. Actually, we caught the wrong guy first. And he was saying like that. Yeah, but... And then you went training.

Yeah, boxing. And you liked it. Well, I wanted to be like Mike Tyson and stuff like that. You know, as a kid, you know, you look up to the... You know, you see they have a good life. You know, they made it. Yeah. So you feel like I want to make it also.

But now, I'm like, you know... I want to be a tennis player or whatever. Sure. It would have been easier. Way easier. Yeah. Not easier, but it's tough, but I don't have talent, so I couldn't do that. But I'm just saying I was a different way of thinking.

I thought I'm going to be a fighter, everyone going to be scared of me. Yeah. You know, as a kid, you know, I think rubbish. Did any of your friends do it too? Yeah, they did it, but they quit. They quit. You're the only one who stuck with it. Yeah, I think discipline is very important.

I wanted it bad. I think sometimes it works when you want something bad you will eventually get there so you have to have the wheel at least How old were you in your first fight? 15. 15?

First amateur fight. Boxing, yeah. Wow. Where was that? Holland, Holland. No, no, but like what was the location? I don't know. I don't even remember what I ate yesterday.

I cannot remember where it was. It's just like Holland, I don't know. I'm city. How did you go from boxing to M.A.? Why? I lost my boxing amateur fight. The first one? First one.

You get knocked out? No, no, I lost just points. And then I felt like, oh, Mike Tyson haven't never lost. You're done. I'm done. I was a kid. I wasn't, the boxing coach wasn't a really good boxing coach. It just was doing something.

So after that, I quit it for a while, and then for a couple months. And then they said come to kickboxing. So I went to kickboxing. And I did my M.M.A. I never trained MMA. I had two weeks of grappling or something, and I went without my first MMA fight. Wow.

Yeah. Did you win? Yeah, I knocked him out. I had the three knockdown rules. I knocked him three times. He took me down a couple of times, but, you know, after a while, it would stand up.

I would just brawl with him and knocked him down three times. And it was over. Was that amateur or pro? I don't remember. You don't even remember? Unbelievable. Did you enjoy it? The thrill of victory?

Well, I won, but, I don't have a lot. I didn't feel a lot. For me, it was just, you know, to get to my goal. It wasn't like, oh, I won, let's celebrate because it didn't mean a lot. Did you get paid? No, of course not. Never get paid. No, yeah, no.

Like the first paycheck you got was probably pretty much. Like when I fought in Rattadamahoy, that's actually a big stadium. I got like a thousand euro. Wow. I was so happy. Like, wow. Like, that was nothing. Did you ever think that you'd be making the kind of money you're making now in fighting?

No, because everything goes so slowly. It's not like suddenly like boxing, you get a, you fight man impact you suddenly make from $100,000 to $1 million, $2 million. Sure. And so it go gradually. I'm lucky. Yeah, I'm lucky. You need luck too, you know.

Was this all part of the dream or is this just kind of, you know, like you just go with the journey, you don't really have dreams and things like that. I, you know, I don't know if guys, you know, from Russia, are saying, oh, you fought for M1, you fought for all kinds of big organizations back home. How would you categorize where you're at right now? On the today, you're at the day, you're in the same big organization UFC,

was it your dreamtoy, when to be able to come to be, like, you're just going to, like, to come to, like, to come up to come. I'm just a way. Now, he fights really, in the M.A. for a really long time. Yeah.

21 year. Yeah. My professional, over 60 fights. more 60 bohers and more a chance of

life I in in the I didn't be able to get to get to this most of the

life I didn't like expect to get anywhere I didn't like dream to get anywhere I just was fighting

because I was fighting just like five ago I kind of I kind of I just started

pretty start playing my time time I'm want to get to

UFC like about five years ago things changed because like I got to the level were actually already

sort of dream to get into UFC because it's because it's the same famous, same strong and so long as the best promotions

in the world and there's a lot of competition. Like I said, there's no promotion number two. It's either U.S. Three and

like, there's nothing else. Yeah. No, nothing getting closer to U.S. So, so they've

me me said, well, we're still not we're still After every my victory, I asked It was like after the last five years,

actually, every time he won, he was asking like, you know, to get signed up with the U.C. So every time they were getting like, listen, not yet, you're not ready yet. So then like... After the victory on Mirko Krakop, me, for me,

two press on them. And the last fight that I four was like Mirko Krakop and like I got signed up a couple weeks later. So you knew that if you beat Mirko Krokop, that's the one,

I feel like that's the one that got you the attention here in the United States. After you beat and people were like, oh, let's the Linnik. After the you,

like you've got won't you've got got to you've got to you've got to you've got you

into MMA like why did you or actually I take that back who got you into martial arts like who who's the one

that introduced to who's the one who's brought to you know I'm not too I'm not too I'm sure it's a

post-Sovus period of 95th and 96th he started he went to the Jiu Jitsu it was a 1990

1995, 1996. And, and even only first UFC went, we're the same that was like

really beginning of the UFC that just started. And it was like something in really beginning and like back the USSR

or post USSR. I just I just was probably there's a big lot of there's not there's not

there to trainable. Yeah, he saw like it was like basically he was saw a poster

I was say like a mixed martial arts and he just went there like just to training. That's it? That was him yeah.

Well, just me I've been one of of the school, it was one of the three would have in the same moment, in the same

he got lucky because it was one of the best schools in Jiu Jitsu in like Post-Sarmid Union and that's he thinks he just got lucky because he got into that club.

If you don't see that poster what do you think you'd be doing right now? If you'd be not even if you'd even I don't know, I didn't know, I had had been

on training work I had had to two months He tried himself in tequando, boxing. He just a little bit on Zudo, he went to, just I used to make me he was trying to find himself, but he couldn't find what he liked.

But I didn't find, like, what he liked. There, no, no matter. There, no way, there was not beat, there, there, no way to fight. Yeah, and some places they said you cannot kick, and some places they said you cannot wrestle. Like, basically, everybody has their own rules, and so until he got into, like, Jiu-Jitsu, basically.

I came, it was Japanese, also, we got into, and jiu-jitsu. It was Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, where you actually. You're actually able to, like, kick and, like, use the elbows, knees. Yeah, perfect for M.A. Yeah. That's what he liked. And he saw it's, like, closer to the street fight,

so, like, where you can actually use on the streets, if anything. The guy who stabbed you, do you know who it is? No. You don't know. He's just off in the wind, did you? Some guy. You ever wonder who it is? He never caught him?

I don't know. I never, ever, like, talked to the police and anything about it. You never did? No. I just didn't care You didn't go to the You went to the hospital right I was in the hospital for like a week or two

It was almost next to your spine It was It was, the doctor What happened? You're at a club It was at a club A fight broke out Yeah

With my mates I seen it Me being fucking crazy I went over to try And confront about 20 lads So yeah fighting And then on the cameras You see while I'm fighting with the lads

This guy just comes up And just like stabs me twice In the back Like you want to see the scars Oh I'd love to If you don't mind Oh wow There you go

Holy smokes So he actually stabbed me twice Once he stabs me and walks away But I didn't feel nothing So I carried on fighting And he comes back around the club And stabs me again Ah

Yeah same guy Yeah same guy So he's seeing that I haven't fell Off the first one And then try to think And I didn't fall still After the second Still didn't fall

Carried on fighting for like 20 minutes after Against the dorm and everyone And then obviously it got to me The adrenaline And I just fell Okay And the guy's the doctor said to me If it was any more closer, like that much to my artery,

he said I would have the dad instantly. Oh my God. That was a lucky night. And did you have any issues walking? I was on crutches when I got out of the hospital. Okay. Yeah, and then obviously I couldn't train for like four months. But I was already in Brazil when I was all healed up.

Okay. And that's when your coach says, go over there to these guys. As soon as I got out of the hospital, he said, go to Brazil right now. I know these guys go there. It's better for your career. Right now, this is where you need to be because you've got too many distractions until. So just go. And I said, okay, coach, I believe in you.

And how many fights into your career? were you at that point? Not one. Oh, not one. No profession. Yeah, because the early fights are all in Brazil. And that's kind of how you got into the UFC on short notice because you're living in Brazil, right? I just fought two weeks prior to the UFC fight short notice against one of the ranked guys in Brazil.

His name was Midnight. And I just knocked him out. It was a five-round fight, by the way, for the title. So I knocked him out in the fort. And that's when they said short notice, and I was like, sound. Like, let's do it. Yeah. If you're not living in Brazil, you don't get that fight, right?

No. Because of the visas and all that stuff. So it's amazing that you being there got you in on that. I mean, I'm sure the opportunity would have come out. Yeah, but just little crazy paths like that. And you think, well, if this and that, you know what I mean? It's amazing. Would I have got to show any fight if it was in Brazil?

Yeah. So that's how you've got to think of things. My goal is to be a world champion within the next year, which I've got to get somebody to fight me to get there. My goal is to be a world champion by sometime around this next year, by this time next year, hopefully. Okay. It's to be a world champion, which is hard to do in my division because even if you're winning,

you got to get people to fight you and then you've got to get fights, you know, they've got to fit it in. But, and then, you know, my goal is to win that and defend it once or twice and then move up. Okay. That's my plan. That's my plan. Yeah. Get rid of, okay.

So it's become sort of like a tradition now with you. You win impressively. Then you get on the mic and you call everyone out and you tell us how frustrated you are. And you took advantage of the moment. I mean, it was great. I love what you said. Like, you know who I am. Yeah.

Yeah, this is ridiculous, Aaron. I mean, these guys know exactly who the fuck I am. I have a better record. I feel like a douchebag just saying my record over and over again. Oh, I'm 8 in 1. I'm 8 in 1. But, I mean, how many of these guys are 8 in 1? I literally have a better winning percentage than 90% of the UFC.

They know exactly who the fuck I am. And they're acting like they don't because I understand, I'm not delusional that I'm in the deepest weight class in the UFC. And I understand that I'm at a high risk, low reward situation right now. Like, I'm the highest risk they can take. because I'm going to whip them all. I'm going to beat them all. And of course, they're taking a huge risk on fighting me,

but my name isn't quite big enough yet. So, of course, I'm not saying that they're avoiding me, necessarily because they're scared, but they're afraid of losing their spot. They're not afraid of me, the guy, the fighter, James Vic, but they're afraid of what I could do, what losing to me would do to their career. 100% they're afraid of it.

So you need now, like, you need the Soroni to your Darren Till. You need that veteran. guy to step up and actually fight you, right? So you set your sights on the Pettus-Poree fight. That's the one you want, right? The winner of that one? I do, but I don't think those guys are going to fight me. I mean, I just watched the countdown show with them, and Poriars talking about, oh, I beat

Pettis, I'm going to get a title. I should get a title shot. I mean, I get his logic. You know, I'm not hating on any of these guys, man. There's a big enough pie for everyone. I just want my peace, you know? I get his logic that, oh, he just beat, he realistically did just beat Eddie Alvarez, and he should be getting a title fight because of that.

That's his logic or whatever. But to beat Anthony Pettish, you get a title fight, a dude who's lost four out of his last five fights or four out of his last six fights, and he comes in, which to me is a complete joke. They rank me number 15 in the world at one point for a week. And then Justin Gachie comes in and beats a dude who's lost four out of his last five.

Has one win in the UFC. Just Genshi has won't. As a matter of fact, he was talking shit about me on Twitter. So, yeah, I'm going to go off on him a little bit too. Yeah, he started popping off before. Before I got on the mic, he's talking about, oh, yeah, this guy's about to get on the mic and say how everyone's a ducking him, everyone's afraid of. And well, what do you want me to lie? Yeah.

I mean, you're talking all that shit, but you weren't saying nothing when I was calling you out on fight night. When he won't his fight, I walked right up to Sean. Showing me, me and poor he both did, walked right up and said, we won't fight Gaichi. Uh-huh. And then two days later, the UFC sets him next to me. And obviously, we're not going to start any, you know, I'm not going to start any drama. I just now got on their good side where they're flying me places. Yeah.

I'm not trying to start any drama or whatever. And then they're personal. But the dude's saying all that. But then you beat one guy in the UFC and every other guy that you fought outside of this organization wouldn't even be ranked in the top fucking 40. Every guy that he beat outside of the UFC, these guys wouldn't even be ranked in the top 40. And you're acting like you're the baddest fighter in the world. What a fucking joke, dude. You know, so he's talking all that shit.

Well, fight me then. You know, you're saying, oh, well, of course, you're going to say, I'm not worthy to fight you. When I have, I have eight, seven more UFC wins than you have. and the combined record of the guys you fought outside of this organization is probably not very good. I haven't looked them all up, but I obviously know that those guys wouldn't even be a top contender in the UFC. So the Pettus thing, you know, yeah, I want to fight, but I was talking about Pettis with how they ranked him. He beat Jim Miller, who was ranked 10 spots below me, and then because he's a former world champion, they rank him number 13 in the world. When he's lost four out of his last six fights, well, out with the old and with the new.

You know, I mean, come on, dude. Out with the old and with the new. I understand you're a world champion. I understand this is a business, but, I mean, in my mind, I'm a world champion, and I perform me like a world champion. And I'm beating,

Joe Duffy hadn't been finished by him. It was 16 and 2. That's a phenomenal MMA record. He hadn't been finished. He hadn't been knocked out by anybody, and I knocked them out. You know, all these guys want to say, oh, you haven't beat nobody.

I mean, I beat him. You know, I'm not going to get up here and try to fight McGregor and all that. I know that that's unrealistically. I can't even get a number of 15 got to fight me. How am I going to get him? Be stupid and say anything like that. But Joe Duffy beat him.

You know, you got Tony Ferguson. In my mind, I whipped Tony Ferguson's ass. Tony Ferguson, look at our competition. We fought. They're going to say, oh, you haven't fought. I mean, I smoked Abel Trujillo twice as easy as he did. I mean, Abel Trillo took him down three times and dropped them twice. And to say that I'm not worthy and skill level wise, because all these people, their whole

whole saving grace where they don't have to fight me is because I got a top ten fight before and I lost. That's their whole thing. Well, first of all, most of these guys. have got multiple top 10 opportunities. Or they lose and then they're grandfathered in because they have names and they stay there. It really is a joke, you know. I mean, it's time, that's my third finish in a row.

It's time for another chance. If I, God forbid, I get another chance and I blow it, then I'll go back to the back of the ladder and I'll lose, and I'll win two or three more fights and I'll come back and say something after that. But it's time for me to get another chance. I mean, this is a joke, man. It is. Have you ever looked at who ranks, like who's part of the UFC rankings?

I have no idea. I don't know who it is. With all due respect to those guys, I don't even know what those people are. There are people who don't go to events. The whole thing started because Fox wanted when they promoted the shows like, oh, number three versus number two.

Like, they just wanted another way to people. Like, the UFC has always been against rankings because they didn't want the fighters and the managers to start like squabbling. And so they asked all the media to do it. But most of the media said, no, I don't want, because it's a conflict of interest. like they would take Nate Diaz out because they were mad at him, but they'd keep Dominic

Cruze in for three years even though he was injured. It was just a weird thing to be a part of. So only like 10 people have remained. And I don't know if they know anything about MMA. So like I feel bad for someone like you who's getting so worked up over the fact that you can't even crack it. When the people who are determining this, again, with all due respect to them, you know, they may be nice people, don't really know the sport that well. And that's just the truth because I don't see them at events. I don't see them covering the sport. I mean, they're like radio people, not like actual MMA media. And it's messed up that they're that, that, that, fighters are using this against you saying like, oh, you're not ranked when you should be ranked.

You know what I mean? I should be ranked. The whole system is broken. This is another thing. A lot of people, I guess people watching and tuning in right now, if they don't have it follow my career, they don't remember is I grew up in the UFC. In my mind, I've earned this right more than most of these people have because I only had four pro fights when I got in the UFC.

I was professional for eight months when I got on the ultimate fighter. Eight months, that was it. And I had four pro fights all within three months. And then I got a little injury and I had to chill. And then I tried off for the ultimate fighter. I made the show. And so that was my eighth win in the UFC, my ninth fight in the UFC. And some of these guys coming in, you know, don't have half those many fights in the UFC or half those many wins in the UFC. So I've earned this right to be here. It's been a long five years.

You know, I've had a lot of injuries. I've worked a full-time job half the time I've been in the UFC. Just this last couple years have I been able to finally train full-time and do stuff. I hear all these people, you know, talking about, oh, I just need a can. Well, guess what? I did it. I was beating all these guys. I mean, realistically, I've been fighting for, probably a good half the time some of these guys have. How difficult is that? That's the lowest moment of your professional sporting career, right? I mean, of course you've been through a lot in your life.

But to then sit there and answer a question from us schmucks, you probably didn't want to be there, right? It's hard. I got to give her a lot of credit. She did it before me. She did it the Monday after the fight. But you also came to the press conference. I came to the press conference.

that was very hard. It is because you don't want to go. Of course not. Did they make you go? No, no, no. I asked to. But your natural instinct is to kind of clam up, kind of get away from it. And you got to try and fight that, especially when you're champion like her. I think that's why you've got to give somebody like that respect. And that's what I'm trying to do the same. You know, you, this is what we do. Sometimes you're going to take an L. Sometimes you're going to learn. And I think people, the real people, the real fans, the real people that really see you, they respect that and they know that.

I have so much respect. Like, I sometimes make too big of a deal about it, but like I have this picture right here because I feel like it represents it. Like, this was Cruz, right? Who's lost, right? When you lost to Cody, and this is not like a great picture

of shot by our Estrelin. She's the best, but this is just the guy standing up. But I just love when, like, I gain more respect for the fighters who show up like you did, like she did, and just face the music and talk about it and don't run away.

And it's like, look, crap happens, right? Life happens. There are big things that happen in life. There are tragedies. But the fact that you can just stand there for 10 minutes like you did, to me, my respect for you and Dominic and Connor who did it, right? And you want to, it just grows exponentially. And I hate to bag on Rhonda, but, like, she didn't do it. And she had two opportunities to do it.

And it's hard not to lose a little respect when you see that, right? That's true. I mean, I don't know if I get back on her, because I don't know. I'm not in those same. Sure, sure. But, yeah, it is hard, but that's what we do. You talk shit before the fight. And when loser draw, I'm going to act the same way.

I'm going to be the same way. Show up to the press conference. Do the press. Tell them what, and tell the people, because there are people out here that really care about us and go through a lot more than we do. This ain't the biggest thing in the world. I think Joanna said it best. Like, yeah, you lost.

Okay, get over it. Right. Go back. Get out there. Do it again. Cody said it. Yowanna said it. Mike said it.

And I'm saying that too. Like you get out there and you're going to do it again. All three of them on Saturday, I thought, handled the loss very well. And you don't often see that. Now,

also on Saturday, there was a guy by the name of James Vic, who looked good. He was just sitting here. I don't know if you guys crossed past in the back. Did you see him? No, I seen him yesterday.

Where did you see him? I went down to a Broadway show. You know, you put out here, wow. White people stuff. Wow. Broadway show.

What show? Book of Mormon. Oh, wow. I seen him there. We talked a little. was at the show too he was he was sitting up he was sitting up he was sitting up in the nosebleeds I was down on the flow he didn't mention that when I just spoke to him I the of course he yeah you know we I'm looking up at him screaming shit too wow but I told

him enjoy your win okay enjoy this yeah don't ruin your Christmas yeah he wants to fight me in February yeah like don't ruin your Christmas yet like at least book the fight after enjoy your Christmas uh before doomsday if you that's what you want but I don't know are you down I'll take a little bit more time I need more time to February especially. Okay. Well, I'll see. You know, it's been a lot of talk on what I'm going to do and all this and what they're

going to do if they open up this 165 weight class. Right now, I'm going back. I'm playing with my diet a little bit. See if I can shrink down a little bit more too. I carry a lot of mass. How much do you do it right now? Probably about 190-ish. Something like that.

Like 186. Okay. Between 186, 190. So I'm going to play around with my weight a little bit, walk around a little bit lighter. And then we'll see. Do you have a nutritionist? No, I don't, you know, I use the UFC's nutritionist Clint. At the Performance Institute?

At the Performance Institute. But yeah, no, not really. I've kind of, you know, I'm a biomed major. So I took a lot of nutrition classes. Like I understand nutrition a lot. My body just didn't respond well. I was fighting a little bit too much, a little too much stress on me. And my body just didn't respond well, especially when you, when you're trying to battle sicknesses and the immune system going down.

It's hard. So right now I'm going to get myself a little bit of time. Let my body heal up. Let it get back to normal. Let my endocrine system get normal and then see what we do from there. Have they said anything about 165 to you? Because it doesn't sound like Dana's that into it. Yeah, I don't know.

You're not really banking on that now, right? The squeaky wheel going to get the grease. So I'm going to keep, I don't know why more guys aren't talking about it. I don't know why more guys aren't stepping up. When I stand next to James Vic, he's taller than me just as big. I know he don't want to make that weight cut down to 55 anymore either. I don't see why more guys ain't talking about it. But look, at least if I got to be the singular in this and Dana just hate me for it, I'm going to keep doing it.

He doesn't hate it. He loves you. I don't know, he love me. They love you. Dana love me. Yeah. Me and Dana, we boys. Yeah?

You guys hang out? A couple of times. Really? Wow. What you guys do? Especially living down in Vegas now. That's right. Where are you going?

Playing blackjack? Oh, no, no, no. No, no. You're not wasting your money on that. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good.

I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Where are you guys hanging out? A couple of times. Just around the PI and stuff like that. We'll see each other. I told him to give me a ride in his Ferrari.

You know, he gave Connor a ride the first goddamn night. I know, right? Sport for a minute. Yeah, what's up with that? I deserve a ride. Did he give you one? A Ferrari? No, did he give you a ride at least?

No, no, he didn't give you. Okay. Not yet, not yet. But it'll get there. And I'm going to get my own. I ain't even really about it. Yeah. And you're not going to rent it.

Hell no. You're not. You're not. That's right. You're going to buy it. Exactly. Did you use the performance institute a lot since you live in Vegas? Are you really taking advantage of it?

Yeah, I've been, I did my last two training camps there. I try and outsource for all my training. You know, I keep the same trainers, but I go out and I find the training partners. And that's allowed me to, like, bring them all there and bring them in, especially with this last training camp. I actually felt like the camp went really well. I had great trainers. I had great training partners.

I really didn't have no complaints about it, especially. especially using the Performance Institute. I feel like I'm using it a little bit more now. Oh, well. Especially not that I had the time because I didn't want to change anything. But I'm going to play around with the camp. Like I said, I'm changing, I'm playing around with my management too a little bit. Yeah, what's going on?

Your free agent? Yeah, no, not right now. Okay. I'm still signed, but we're looking around. Yeah, you're shopping around. Business is good? Business is great. Yeah?

Business is boom. Really? Despite the loss? I don't slow down. Okay. I'm a champion. I said that before the fight. I'm saying after.

Even though I'm not sitting up here with this gold belt, I still feel like a champion. And I'm going to still treat myself like a champion. And I'm going to go back out there. And I'm going to be a champion. I feel like I'm only a couple wins away from that still. I'm still young. It might not happen when I'm 25, but 26 is the magic number.

There's been a lot of crap talking in MMA. I want to try to bring back some honor to martial arts and things like that. I feel like you're someone who would get behind that. You're not down with all the crap talking. No, man, I'm down with just being yourself. You know what I'm saying? Be who you are, you know what I mean? Don't try to, since Connor has done a lot for the sport, the sport, you know, it's good.

Connor has, he did that. That's his way, man. He did his thing, you know what I mean? Everybody's like, oh, this is how you get the money. This is how you do you know? It's like, that's fine, you know what I mean? Defend yourself. Speak up for yourself.

Speak up for yourself. Like, stupid shit that's like, what? That's like, what? That don't even make sense. You know what I mean? Don't be an asshole. You know what I'm saying? Don't be asshole.

This is martial arts. martial arts, you know what I mean? We got into this through, you know, through some type of traditional way, you know what I mean? We like, everyone here, everyone in here has we seen like Bruce Lee movies, you know what I mean? This is how we grew up, you know what I mean? We watch like, everyone has done karate at some point,

you know what I mean, you know better, you know better, you know what, I mean, it's not boxing. You know what I mean? I had a boxing background and I'm still more, you know, I'm not coming in here while and out, you know what I mean? You got to have some type of respect and honor for the sport of what we do. You feel like there's pressure because of the success that some of the the legendary crap talkers have had? In the beginning, yes.

In the beginning, yes. You have felt that? Yeah. That you had to speak up? But then you break character. Then you're not yourself no more. You start to be someone else. And every time camera comes on,

you're trying to like, you're doing too much. You know what I mean? Now I don't have to do that anymore. I did that. You know what I tried? Okay. Didn't work. You know what I'm saying?

And they're like, yeah, what am I doing? Be yourself and just do what you do. Okay. And here I am, just doing what I do, man. You know, I'm not really for the, if you want to take it, You know what I'm saying? If you want to talk crazy,

hey, we're going to take it there, right? But at the end of the day, you've got to face me. And when you face me, let's see how it goes. So what was it like in the locker room on Saturday in the hours before the fight? Was it worse than normal? Oh, that was crazy. How nervous were you?

Let me tell you about this. Let me tell you about that. So before I left for the medicine score guard, I have my last meal. Okay. I'm eating. And I hear the guy speaking, like, in my crew,

I think there's most people they speak English, but there are people that speak French, right? Because I have French, Francophone background. So I hear them speak, don't tell George Bler. So I go at the table and I'm like, I'm eating him. I'm like, is a A.M. One, Amen is a training partner of mine. And they're like, everybody's okay. He's like, no, he got knocked out.

I'm like, shoot, is he okay? They're like, I don't know, I think so. I'm like, man, that would be very bad. Yeah. So I finished eating and I'm like, damn, You know, one of my training partner lost, unfortunately, I feel very sad for him. So then I go in my locker room. And then my other training partner who was in my locker room, Joseph Deffi fight.

And he's doing well, but he got clipped with an uppercode. He got knocked out again. I'm like, oh, my God. Then there's another guy in my locker room, Mickey Gall. He lose too. No, I'm starting. Is it a freaking curse in my locker room? You know, because sometimes before a fight, you become a little bit, how do you say, like,

You know, like these things, like they... Superstitious? Superstitious, you know, like, man, I'm in a bad locker room. I have like a curse locker room. Everybody's losing. So I'm thinking, I was like, no way. It's like, not me. I'm going to put everything back on track.

It's like, I'm not losing this. I tried to convince myself, no way. I'm going to do this. So then we're warming up for the fight. And now I'm with my trainer. We're thinking it's like, okay, now there is a... The two ladies are fighting. normally ladies

like not all the time but there's less percentage of knockout and finishes in ladies than men sometimes because the power the woman is normal is different so I'm thinking okay it's going to be a five round and then the other guy Tj

and Cody is going to be a five round too so I'm going to have a good time for warm up so I set my warm up to have a good time for warm up like at least a good 40 minute then the fight started bang it rose knockout Joanna. I'm like, oh my God, okay, let's go. Then I finish wrapping my hand, I go crazy. I start warming up. And then after a DJ, boom, knock out Cody. I'm like, oh my God. I'm freaking out. Try to accelerate my warm up. Then they called me out. Everything from there went very fast.

Okay. Was it weird not wearing the ghee to the cage? It looked weird for us. Yeah. Yeah, it was weird because I have a kind of a ritual that I do normally before the fight. I put my ghee in front of the mirror with my bandanae, and I'm talking to myself. What are you saying? I'm telling, I'm talking to myself in the mirror, trying to convince myself. This is like a routine I do.

Nobody knows this. I'm telling myself, I look at myself in the mirror, and I'm telling myself, I said, I said, you're the best. Tonight is going to be your night. You're going to win this because you're better than him. Try to pop me up with something to get positive stuff, even though I'm scared as hell, you know,

and I have doubted in my mind. I try to make myself positive and pump me. I'm trying to make me believe that it's impossible for me to fail, you know. And then I'm walking in. And then when I get out of the locker room, that's when normally the walkout start, you know. And I always do the same thing. So I know that the UFC guys come to pick me up in the locker room.

So I always time it in a way that when they come to pick me up in the locker room, that's when I go take, I go piss one more time. Then I put my cup because you don't want to put your cup before because you have to, you know, it's a tight cup, you have to attach everything. Then I put my cup, then I put my pants, then I put my guy. But now I didn't have my ghee.

So what I do is, they say, Joseph Pierre, two minutes. I said, okay, I went to the bathroom. Then I put my cup. Then I look myself in front of mirror and I said, yeah, I'm going to do this. I'm going to make a story tonight. I'm scared, but I try to convince myself.

Then I take the walk and I do my thing. You know, that's how I did. I was told this great story. I hope you don't mind if I bring it up. You, I think Eric was with you too. You guys were at Costco, which is a big grocery store. You thought you were at Walmart. You thought you were at Walmart.

You guys are, you're going around and you have a massive. Tell us the story, Eric. You were there, right? I really did. Well, they're right next to each other, Walmart and Costco. Yeah. We were in Costco. I hadn't been home for a while.

I didn't recognize, notice the difference. But two carts, you know, an hour of shopping, food for this guy's a lot. So we had a lot of food for his camp. As I'm going to the cashier, I'm like, man, when did Walmart become bulk? And it was like, wait a minute, we're at Costco. And you need a membership. They're not going to let us buy it. We're going to have to leave and all this stuff was for not.

And then I thought to myself, wait a minute, make sure you go to a female cashier. Yes. And just use your accent. you thought it was Walmart because that's tell the truth yeah and see what happens so and I said I'll be off to the side watching because I don't want her to see me yeah so by the time he's getting through by the way this lady has white hair okay white hair older a little bit old she had white hair no so old she had white hair no very old she she lets him pass and she put her number on the receipt wow for him the call put her phone number for you yeah yeah wow that's amazing she had no problem that you

weren't a member. No. He said, please, please. I think we could have went back there and they got it for free. Oh, my God. She's not very old. She's like a 40. Oh, okay.

What you called? No. I thought she was. I thought she was. The hair was white. Nice lady? Nice lady? She was.

Yes. Does that happen a lot? Do you get a lot of phone numbers? People give you phone numbers? No, it's not, not every time. Okay. Like sometimes. I mean, it's good to be you.

But you have a girlfriend. I want to make that very clear. you're very happy. No problem. Yes, five years, right? Five years. Wow. She's instant.

She's a stand. Yes, of course. Very comprehensive. Very beautiful woman as well. You're both very lucky to have each other. What's your news, my man? Well, I'm glad that I was able to come on the MMA hour and announce this. I have signed with Bellator and I will be fighting heavyweight for them in 2018.

Wow. Wow. Congratulations. Thanks, man. A little in shock still. You are. A little surreal. But very excited about it.

something that I've wanted to do for a long time. And let's be honest, something that's been a part of me. So it makes sense, right? Yeah, there's so much, okay, I have a lot to ask you about here. When did this get finalized? When did this get done? We have been working and talking with them through the summer. Okay.

We started negotiations and whatnot. And it, I mean, it literally got finalized this weekend. Okay. Where we came to terms and are excited. And next step, it would be the set of date. Did you reach out to them first? or your management or did they reach out to you guys? We reached out to them.

Okay. Yeah. Did you leave WWE because you wanted to pursue an MMA career? Well, you know, it's funny. Everyone asked me that, why did you leave the WBE? And, you know, for the longest time, very thankful for my career there. I mean, an average career up there is three years. I was able to go 10 years up there.

And, you know, for the longest time, it's like, why did I leave? And I think it becomes very obvious, like, this is why I left the WBE. I wasn't allowed to really compete up there, even though I felt like I could take anyone in the locker room. And now it's such a popular time to be a pro wrestler, to be in combat sports, to be an MMA fighter, where you can really take your opportunity and put it in your own hands, your own hard work.

And that's really why I left. Were you a fan of MMA while you were in WW? Were you the kind of guy who watched those fights as you were, progressing as a pro wrestler and saying like I need I need the real stuff I want to get punched in the face I don't want the scripted stuff like was that going through your mind towards the tail end of your WW run yeah absolutely I think there's certain types of guys that just need to be punched in the face want to taste blood okay and I think I'm definitely like that and maybe I got away from that for too long and so always been a fan of MMA I've been wrestling since I was five years old and so

some form of that always transcends to me and a big fan of what they're doing awesome awesome working with Bellator so excited to be with a company that values its assets and its talent and really is going to put 100% towards it instead of you know the other way okay that seems like as the kids say maybe some shade towards the UFC is that what the kids say this thing well it's not shade because it's the truth I mean you can just see how certain people get treated up there and like you know it was it's crazy it's like it's like are you serious so it was time to move on and just really excited for you know for the first time in a decade my hard work my dedication will directly pay off to my results you're represented by one of the best managers in the game

danny rubinstein whoa shout out rude ruby sports ruby sports a fellow sooner yes did you guys talk to any other organizations like the UFC, Asia, one, I don't know, or was it just Bellator? Did you know that that's where you wanted to go? We reached out to UFC, but in our heads the whole time, Bellator was the end run. That's where we wanted to go. Like I said, they just seemed like a company that, like, values its talent and its assets. And I think it's on the rise. Like, you see what Bellator is doing with the roster that they bring in, not only at heavyweight,

but, like, at all weights, it's really becoming great and tough all the, way through. It's very exciting to be a part of that. It just seemed like the best fit for me. I know everyone's going to say, hey, you've never fought MMA before. Well, 12 years ago, I was never a pro wrestler, you know, so it just seemed like a good fit. And working with Rich and Scott, I can tell, like, it feels kind of corny, it sounds corny, but it feels meant to be. Since March, did you train in MMA? Did you spar? Do you know what it's like to get punt in the face. Have you done Jiu-Jitsu? What have you been doing as far as your MMA's crew? Because I know you still wrestle, right? You still go around, you travel. You were just at a show, I think, this past

weekend, correct? Yeah, we had a big show this past weekend at the Cow Palace. It was really cool. Oh, wow. Legendary arena. Yeah. First time to work there, believe it or not, with APW. So what as far as MMA have you been doing since you left? So I've been training with Ebor City Jiu-Jitsu in Tampa. Okay. That's where you live. That's where I live. A guy there, Joey Best, been doing strength and conditioning with Josh Rafferty. and former ultimate fighter former ultimate fighter mad scientist when it comes to

I mean he just really knows I think he knows amateur wrestlers so I think it's a great fit for me and him to put together and go on this journey together because he's going to know what I need to do and how to translate that for me into this stuff because I mean it's no clue I have a lot to learn we're learning fast and it's very exciting

and then been doing a lot of boxing as well okay so is that your team that's my team for right now. We haven't signed with any big organization right now, kind of been like doing it under wraps. One, because I do and go pro wrestle every weekend. So training wise, it's like kind of have to be on my own schedule and put it in there. Did you, you know, did you talk to, you know, I don't know, what's your relationship like with punk? Yeah. Uncle Ashley, these guys who have tried

to do both. Have you talked to any of them about how difficult this may be? I haven't talked to feel since he left the company. So you were very close friends. I mean, when you travel as much as you do together, you kind of, you become acquainted, you know, each other, definitely. I'd say we're friends, but

you know, it's more of a work relationship. I recently ran into Bobby a couple weeks ago at a show, and he was so excited for me. I kind of broke the news to him early. Oh, wow. Sorry, Bobby. Yeah. And He kept the secret.

He did keep the secret. Yeah, well done. And he was very excited for me. And he was like, absolutely, you should go and do this. So I think that was a nice seal of approval and a good confidence booster. You know, I'm friends with Chale, Sonan. He's been absolutely great as a mentor and any questions I asked. But very excited, yeah.

Will you be pausing the pro wrestling stuff while you try to, you know, get ready for your debut? Are you going to try to do both at the same? time. Man, I think it's cool right now that there's a huge opportunity here to do both at the same time. I'm very fortunate that I have a little bit of a name and a following. So I kind of want to use, do both. I want to pro-wrestle and I want to be a fighter to help each other. It's 2017, about to be 2018. Combat sports is the most popular in the world right now. It's like Mr. Missoulli was saying, how fast it's growing. So I think if you're able to be able to be able to be. able to do both and you can stay healthy and you can be honest with yourself and say hey i'm

ready to step in that cage while i can still go wrestle on the weekends then all four and do it you know it's a it's a special thing and it's going to be difficult but uh it sounds like a lot of fun and um i think right now um at least you see what pro wrestlers is is you is you want you know the ball in your court and in your hands and you want that opportunity and like this is the best opportunity for me to take my future in my hands and really see where it can go and how far can go. I mean, everybody wants to cross over, movies, whatever. I'm not really a movie guy. I like movies, but I'd rather go and, like you said, get punched in the face or maybe not get punched in the face.

And go that way out. I've been doing this since I was five, so it makes sense for me. And I would definitely love to keep pro wrestling in becoming. I'm a professional bellatory MMA fighter. Part of the reason why you want to finally make the transition to MMA, and I know that you've been sort of asked about this in the past, was that you want to actually teach your students better. So you know that a lot of the people who come to you

are eventually going to want to go to MMA, and you can't say X, Y, and Z unless you've actually done it. Yeah. Are you strictly doing this from a teaching perspective so that you could be a better instructor, or do you actually want to pursue it in a moment? It's definitely not just that. I think somebody, like, was tweeting at me the other day,

like attacking me like, you can't just do, you can't just do MMA because you want to be a better teacher like you're going to get killed in there, you know, this is a real, real sport or something, I don't know, and, you know, we'd love to go off on people in social media. So it was just good fun for me. But, no, I mean, of course it's not the only reason, but it's a big reason. I think that it's always been the higher, the, the biggest surrounding reason behind anything that I did, whether it was competing in jiu-jitsu or moving forward into MMA. Like, I know that competition is just a short-lived thing. It's just not something that I'm going to get to do forever. And I'm already thinking about what I'm going to be doing in the future after competition. And I know that's going to

be teaching. So a big part for sure of why I'm competing is to further my knowledge, to further my experience so that one day when that's all over, I can say, you know, hey, I did X, Y, Z. I was there. I did this. It worked. It didn't work. You know, this is my reference point. And, you know, take that as you will. You know, not everybody's capable of doing that. Some people have injuries. Some people, you know, just weren't capable of competing for whatever reason. And there are some great coaches that are able to do that. You know, John is able to do that, and he makes use of his time in other ways. You know, he studies the sport.

John DeNehner. Yeah, John DeNehner. He studies many different sports and really puts things together well for us in terms of training camps, whether it's for jiu-jitsu or mixed martial arts, and he's done that with many different successful athletes in the past. And, you know, he hasn't been a competitor himself. I mean, he obviously has rolled live in the gym. He actually, I found this out, like, about maybe,

a year or so ago, but I didn't know, but he actually had like a little bit of a moitai background when he was in New Zealand. He did some boy Thai. So I didn't even know. But yeah, he did, you know, so he's not like he'd never, you know, trained before. It's not like just some guy that just walked in is like, here's how you do it, you know. But certainly not competing, but still able to change the sport in dramatic ways, which I think that his athletes have been able to show in their performances. You recently side with one, competed for them in a grappling match against Shinyaoki. Yes. coincidentally is fighting for their

welterweight title on on Friday. Why won? How did you end up there? So Chotri is one of the... Situ Tong. Yeah, exactly. He's one of...

I'm glad you knew how to pronounce his last name because there was no chance I was going to be able to do it. Chantry is a pretty tough one too, but fair enough. Yeah, so he... So Chachari has been a part of Henzos before in the past.

He used to train there. He's a much bigger Muay guy. Like he was much more of a... Like, my passion is Jiu-Ti. That was his passion. It was Muay. But he loves MMA and Jiu-Jitsu as well. And I guess through talks with Henzhou and through watching me,

I think one of the bigger fights that I had against Paul Horace was one of the one that caught their eye and made them say, like, oh, maybe we want to kind of get this guy involved in what we do. I don't know if their initial ambition was, hey, we want to try to pick this guy up because he's interested in doing mixed martial arts. Or if they really did want to just put on a grappling match, I don't know. It seems like it seems like it could be a. mixture of both, you know. I think it went well. I think the grappling match went well. I think people,

it was well received by their fans. The Asian audience tends to enjoy grappling a little bit more than perhaps the audience of the UFC sometimes. So I think, I think that was kind of what happened is they kind of saw me as an exciting jihitsu athlete and wanted to try to, you know, draw me towards their organization. And it worked because, you know, when I got there, you know, everything was pretty awesome. I really enjoyed the feeling of Evolve Training Center, which is a big part of what they do, and the different athletes that they have their training and that team. And then I also really liked being involved with one championship when I was actually competing there. It just seemed like a really cool promotion to be a part of, and I was treated really well,

and I hadn't got that feeling from some other people, perhaps, that were, you know, knocking on the door or calling me up. Did you seriously talk to anyone else? Any other promotions? Not as seriously as I talked to them. Because again, I just didn't get the right feeling about it. And some people were trying to throw me in with guys that had like 50 professional fights. And it just was never really, it never felt right, you know, because I'm just starting. And this is a brand new sport for me. You know, I've never done, I've done some mixed martial arts sparring way, you know, long ago when I was like 17, 18.

But I had no idea what I was doing. You know, I don't really have experience in mixed martial arts. Do you have your debut date yet? Don't have a date, but, you know, they were asking me, you know, when do you, when are you interested in fighting? And I think I gave them March. Okay. Sometime around March. Are you training for that now?

Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was just telling Chachari, because he was messaging me last night, he said, he was saying something. And I was just like, yeah, you know, I'm pretty motivated to get things started because I'm going to be locked in a cage with somebody who wants to punch and kick my head off. So, you know, I better get good fast. So, you know, that's something that I'm thinking about constantly is just like I'm going to be in a cage and have to fight somebody. So I guess some people could kind of pretend that that doesn't exist, but that to me is just a looming, you know, thought all the time.

So every time I'm thinking about that, I'm trying to find ways to get better, whether it's watching tape or whether it's drilling at Henzos or whatever the case may be. My biggest deficits, obviously, are in the realm of striking, shoot box, et cetera, because I do have some of a wrestling background, some of a jihitsu background. some of a jih Tjitsu background. So most of the grappling elements are covered. Even though that's true, MMA is not just a collection of martial arts. Like some people like to look at it. It's a mixture.

And just because I know how to grapple in a grappling context or wrestle in a wrestling context doesn't mean that I know how to perfectly apply those skills across the board in mixed martial arts. As we've seen many times before, pure grappling, quote unquote, isn't necessarily the most successful strategy in a mixed martial arts fight.

So integrating those skills and learning the new skills has been the biggest project for me. How do you react to getting a punch in the face? Not well. I don't think too many people do, but I mean, you know, it's... They're just like used to it, right? They're just sort of like immune to it or something. Yeah, I guess.

I don't think anybody really likes to be hit. You know, everybody could say whatever they want, but, you know, it's not the most enjoying feeling in the world. But it's a part of the sport, you know, just like a part of, you know, jujitsu is getting submitted or tapped or, you know, your arm getting popped occasionally or something like that.

Like I said, I did some sparring back when I was like 17, 18, when Tom de Blass had started doing mixed martial arts. I was like, oh, let me toy around with this a little bit. You know, my instructor's doing it, so let me see how this goes. And I used to just like march forward punching like this, no head movement and try to double-leg people. So I got my fair share of getting brutally punched in the face back then. And I still showed up every day and it wasn't that big of a deal.

So what was it like? I'm doing much smarter sparring now. Good, good. I'm very, I'm fascinated by your career and of course have great respect for your career, but you put out this video recently, you performing spoken word about your trials and tribulation with anxiety. Social anxiety. And I have to say, so it's hard for me to relate to fighters.

It's easy for me to relate to someone talking about that because I've dealt with that. And I think a lot of us deal with that. What prompted you? And for anyone who hasn't seen it, I was going to play it here, but I feel like that's not fair to you. Yeah, I might turn bright red. Yeah, and you need to watch the whole thing. Yeah.

And I have many questions about it. So if anyone wants to see it, go on Tiffany's Twitter and check it out because I... It's got a YouTube channel, too. The full thing is on YouTube. There you go. But you link to it on your Twitter, right? It's on my Instagram, the links in my bio to the YouTube. Okay, perfect.

What prompted you to do that? So I was in Austin at the Onit Influencer Summit. Okay. And a spoken word poet in Q was one of the keynote speakers. He ran us through a workshop. He performed. I've always liked to write. I've always enjoyed watching spoken word poetry.

But after watching him and interacting with him, I was inspired to kind of try it. But I didn't plan when or how. after one of the events, like the social events following the summit, I found myself just kind of sitting off to the side or feeling really awkward trying to start conversations with these people that I've never met before. I mean, I'm amongst my peers, in a sense,

you know, getting 40 influential people together, kind of like a think tank. It was great. So where I should have felt really, really comfortable, I just felt myself crawling in my own skin. And as soon as the event was over, I went back to my hotel room, just so frustrated at myself for feeling that way.

And with the spoken word and everything being so fresh in my mind, I was so inspired by in Q, I was like, I'm just going to write about this, write how I'm feeling right now. So I wrote it fresh. The emotion was still living within me. I got back to my hotel room,

and I wrote that. And then shortly after that, I got back home. And I was like, I've never even tried spoken word. I'm like, I've watched it enough time. So I watched some more videos online. I'm like, all right, I'm going to record myself doing it and just see how it goes. And I'm like still reading it from my notebook. I hadn't memorized it yet.

And I sent the video to my manager and I was like, hey, what do you think about this? And he was like, what is this? And I was like, what is it bad? He goes, no, this is. this is great, you know? And I was like, I've never done this before. I told him the story, you know, how it came about. And he was like, would you be comfortable, like, sharing this with the world?

And I'm like, you know, I felt like I've been put in this position and given my gift of martial arts to give something to the world. If it's not martial arts, at least I'm on a platform to where people are paying attention to me. And so I was like, hey, look, I'm a world champion and I'm viewed as this superhero to a lot of people. but that's when the cameras are off, when I'm not in the ring. Like every day, normal social events, like even just regular social interactions, if I'm kind of off at the grocery store

and someone comes up to me, I'm kind of like, well, kind of like shell up really quick. So I just thought it was so important to put it out there that, hey, world champions, celebrities, athletes, anybody, you know, we're all one. We're all the same. We all suffer from the same things. So why not put it out of that?

there. Why not use my platform to deliver a message and let everyone know, hey, it's okay. You can deal and you can still do great things. This clip is almost three minutes long. Did you memorize it? I did. Wow. Please don't make me you excited. No, I'm not. I promise you I won't. How many takes? For the original two and then the one that's posted. Okay. Maybe three. Okay. Yeah, three or four. Where'd you film it? I filmed it in an empty apartment in London. Okay. London England. London, England. Okay.

I was there for my manager's wedding. Okay. And I went to one of the pre-wedding parties, but it was for his wife's side. Okay. And I'm friends with her, but I didn't know anybody in her family. And they were lovely and made me feel so welcome and comfortable. But my anxiety, again, not knowing anybody, I'm in a different country. Yeah.

You know, I just felt that same frustration and that same feeling. I felt in Austin that night when I wrote it. Okay. And so I got back, it was like 2 a.m. And just using that emotion as fuel for the performance. So I just set up my iPhone on some empty boxes. Wow. I was all alone.

Wow. I was like, all right, I'm doing this. This is raw. This is real. I want that to be conveyed through this. So I know it doesn't look like it's super well done because it wasn't. It was just my phone and myself, you know, and my feelings.

And so you guys got it, raw and real as can be. Was it difficult to share it to post it? There was in the moments leading up to posting it. I was like, should I do it? Should I not? Should I do it? But I know what the bigger picture is. You know, I know what the causes, what it's about.

And it's bigger than my fear, my anxiety, or my ego, or what people may think. So when it was finally released, it was. I was so excited. Like I was nervous excited, but then when it was finally out, started getting some feedback and seeing, oh man, it was so great. Really? It was like. What's the feedback you're getting?

It's been great. So many people have contacted me and have been like, thank you so much. I struggle from the same thing. I didn't know, like you look like you have it all together, and you've given me hope, you've inspired me. Like, just everything I wanted from the video. I've gotten so far

and I'm just, I'm so happy about it and the response has been so great and I eventually want to work up to actually maybe trying to perform live myself. Okay. The same piece? The same piece, other pieces. I've written a couple more. Maybe work my way up from some local

open mic nights where nobody knows me and wear hat and glasses just to get used to it, you know? And then, yeah, and maybe be able to do it for real. Do you feel like it has given you more confidence in day-to-day life, just putting it out there and getting it off your chest and people kind of know? Or is that like you're back at that party in London,

you'll still feel the same way. It's hard to kind of change. I do feel a lot better about putting it out there and kind of like, you know, I look the monster in the face, you know, and I was like, and then let everyone else see it too. You know, but I definitely still feel that social anxiety. And I know there are ways to cope with it in ways to deal with it, just like anything else

that's going to take practice. But yeah, I don't know. How long have you been dealing with that? You know, since mental health has become more of a prevalent issue and is becoming more talked about, I was able to put a name to it, figure out what

it was, but it's something I've been feeling since I was little. Really? The only place I've ever felt really comfortable is, you know, doing karate, playing soccer, being active, you know? but when I'm put in a situation where it's like, okay, here's all these people, everyone talk.

And, you know, then it's like, oh, it just kind of, I don't know, I get that feeling. So when you walk out to fight, you never feel that. No, I feel so at peace. No anxiety, no nothing. No, I just feel focused and ready and just ready to go out there and fight, but I don't feel the anxiety that I feel is like a nervousness, like, okay, let's go, let's go.

The anticipation. But it's not any. anywhere near the same anxiety that I feel when I'm like out at a social event where I don't know anybody. And I'm either, I have two options. Like, okay, come out of my shell and talk to people. And still, it's like, I don't know what I'm going to say. Like, where do my hands go? Do I look weird?

It's either that or I sit off in a corner by myself and don't say anything and I just kind of watch. But then it's like, I'm sitting by myself. Does everyone know I'm sitting by myself? Do I look weird because I'm by myself? So it's just like this constant. this battle in my head where I want to engage because I love talking to people and meeting new people

and once the ice is broken for the most part I feel okay but there's some moments from like God you're so awkward but yeah it's just yeah I don't know I hate when interviewers interject but you're giving me so many memories

of being in college I used to be I used to wait till I would listen in my dorm and wait until I didn't hear anyone, wait until like 3 a.m. just to go brush my teeth because I was that nervous about being around other people. I would never go to the cafeteria to eat. I would get food and then run upstairs and eat in my room by myself because I didn't know what to do.

I didn't know how to talk to people. I didn't know what to do with my hands. I didn't know if they were looking at me, if they were judging me. But you feel comfortable in front of these cameras doing this, right? It's a bizarre thing. It's so back with people like, you don't seem shy at all. You're very outgoing. I'm like, yeah, I am when I'm at work.

You know, when I know I'm doing this, this is planned, I can kind of like mentally prepare for it. But like I said the other day, I was at the grocery store after training, just super tired, putting together a salad. And someone comes up to me, hey, Tiffany, how's it going? And I'm like, I kind of froze. And then I was like, oh, I probably came off like a jerk. Yeah, you know, it's a tough thing. It's crippling at times. Very.

And so I give you a lot of credit. When I saw that, I was like, first of all, you performed it wonderfully. Thank you. And it's very well written. But when I saw it, it was great to see someone who, I mean, like, what you, what all of you do, MMA fighters, boxers, I mean, I can't even imagine, like, I don't possess, like, I don't possess, we, regular people, we don't possess the gene that you guys possess that allows you to go into a ring or a cage. It's a little bit of crazy.

Yeah, it is a crazy. But it's a good kind of crazy, but I, like, I admire it, but I can never even fathom doing it. Like, you're essentially naked, right? Like, you have no shoes on. You're wearing gloves, big one, small. But, like, that's pretty much it. You have no weapons. I mean, two fighters is essentially, two warriors bearing.

their souls through the world. It's insane. Yeah. And then, and so, like, you're able to do that, but then a party scares the crap out of you. Yeah. It's an amazing thing. There's, things people will invite me out to, to events or dinners, and I do want to go, but I just think about that feeling and, oh, I'm going to get it, and I'm just going to stay home tonight. Do you feel like it stopped you from going down certain past in your life, like from achieving certain goals, or have you been able to overcome it every step of the way? I mean, certainly you're successful as far as fighting is concerned. And you could have been successful in soccer as well, right? You had to make the,

that choice, but you feel like it has stopped you throughout your life? No, I'm sitting here talking to you. You're doing well. So I'm doing something right. Right. Yeah. It's amazing. I really urge everyone to check it out.

And I hope you do it more. I really do. I will. Definitely. Really the, it was the same kind of release and expression and outlet that I feel from fighting just without all the physical pain and all the sweat. It's just a different kind of release, but it felt like on the same scale. Sure.

Like after a fight, you just feel, okay, you know. Doing that, the first time I performed it and got it out and actually, you know, watched it. I was like, oh, that felt really good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can imagine. And what about you also just perusing your social media, I'm not going to say his name, but you took the liberty to call out a troll who was just harassing you, right? How bad is this for you?

How often are you harassed online? At least every day. Really? Yeah, at least once a day. Like it's relentless? It's not relentless. Sometimes it's pretty quiet or it's pretty mild. Yeah.

But then there's sometimes where somebody just has the nerve to post something so vulgar or so inappropriate or so rude. It just, I cannot stay quiet. Okay. You know, I have to respond because it's, Like, I think a lot of times they don't expect a response. Like, I'm not going to see it. And I think it's kind of important in a sense to be like, hey, just because you're

sitting behind a computer screen or your phone and no one, like, there's no consequence for what you just said. It doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect, you know, and you need to know that that's not okay. You know, like one of the main issues in today's world is cyberbullying. And then that just goes along with the anxiety and the depression. Sure. And especially with kids.

And there's, in this generation, the social media generation, like, it's terrible. People can just say whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, with no consequences, and they don't think about how it affects, you know, the person that they're saying it to. Like, even after a fighter loses a fight, like I said, they just went out and bared their soul to the world. Do you think they wanted to lose? Do you think they wanted to have a bad performance? Do you think you telling them they suck or how badly they did is going to help in it? any way or contribute to how they're feeling? Like, no. I mean, people just need to, I think if the roles were reversed,

if everybody could at least, you know, fight once. Yeah, good luck at that. Just once. Go through a training camp, you know, the mental, the physical, the emotional roller coaster that is a training camp, and then put yourself in front of that many people and do the thing in front of that many people, I think a lot of those trolls would shut up. It's amazing. You can get 100 positive comments and then one really bad one and that's the one you'll harp on. At least I'm that way, right? Yeah.

You kind of, great, thank you, compliment, compliment. And then you get one really nasty one and it ruins your day because it comes right to your face, right? It's not like someone writing on some forum and you have to go in there and search for it. Like this is your phone. This is your personal phone. Yeah. And you're reading it and it feels very personal. Yeah. And so I wonder. I think that might have something to do with it too. The fact that it's something that it's yours and you're holding it in your hand. Right. And you're reading something that somebody wrote, like they meant for you to see it. It's like, it's personal.

So what do you do? You just block, block, block, block, block. No, I let them. Really? I just let them. Why? Why let them have. What am I going to do?

Block them. I could. But I don't want to give them the satisfaction. The satisfaction. So if they want to, if they want to keep talking shit and keep being a, you know, kind of crummy person, I'll acknowledge it and be like, that sucks. But I'm going to leave this here for everybody else to see. Really?

Like, let everyone else see how terrible you are for saying that. But every once in a while, when I'm feeling some kind of way, right? You know, like, or it's just something so bad I can't ignore it, I'll respond. And usually they're really quick to backpedal. Like, especially the guys who were like, like videos of me hitting myths, you know, like, oh, nice booty, whatever, something about that. And I'm like, I'll respond. Like, would you say that to my face? you saw me in the gym. No. So why would you say that to me here? Like, do you feel like female

fighters get it more than male fighters? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Why do you think that is? Because so many males watch this and they feel like, okay, we're better than you, because, like, we'll tell you how it is or we'll treat you a certain way. I don't know if it's, if it's necessarily that. Okay. But I think it's just, you know, males and females cohabitating, you know, like when it comes down to like the most biological aspects of it, it's like a male sees and attractive female. It's going to generate some type of, you know, response. But to actually act on it and say something inappropriate like that

is another thing than just being like in your head. You can be like, oh, she's got a nice ass while she's sitting miss. That's cool. But instead of put it out there, like, tweet it. Like, it's just so, like, if you wouldn't say that to my face or to that girl's face, because you know she would clock you. Right. Don't write it.

When did you start to feel like this could be a problem? Like your health could be a problem that you might not. Like when did it all kind of start? Well, the cut, you know, I got a little spoiled in the house. I was cutting from $150 in the house every like 10 days. Right. So when I had hit about 45, 42 in training, I was like, okay, we're good to go. We're like six pounds ahead of schedule.

And I honestly didn't think it was going wrong until about probably about Wednesday night. I got to 133. Okay. And was like, okay, this is getting tough. Tougher than it normally has been. But I just was like, man, you know, weight cutting is about being tough and being mental and getting through it.

I know my body can do it. I've done it before. Yeah. So, you know, I just reframed and got, I got to about 30, 30 and a half. And I knew something was different. Okay. What were you feeling?

It was the pain. in my back. Okay. And I know from cutting weight after all these years that once your back starts to hurt, you're, you're in that dehydration phase. And I've never had that kind of pain that I was in. And then my ribs and my legs started cramping, and I couldn't really walk without my legs wobbling and feeling weak. And then I started getting, I started getting delirious. And I was like, I was like, oh, man, this is. And, you know, it was tough because I had to decide if, if it was truly mental or if my body was really telling me something's wrong. Because it's one thing to be tough because it's hot and the son is hot and the sun is miserable

and the tub is hot. That's kind of to me you can tough that out. Okay. But I kind of just was not sure if I had reached that point where something might actually be wrong. Wow. And apparently I had. You had people around you, right? Oh, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Did they tell you we need to go to the hospital or something? Or did you, like, did you collapse? We've heard some story. Yeah. What exactly happened that led to you to go to the hospital? Well, I had collapsed a little bit there. Okay.

And I came to. You pass out? Yeah. Oh, man. Okay. And I came. And, you know, my coach was with me, Jamal Patterson and Clint from the UFCPI. And I was like, just dragged me into the sauna because I couldn't make my way there.

And they were like, no. If you're to the point where we have to physically drag you into the sauna, it's probably something. Yeah, yeah. Something wrong. And so Clint decided to call Dr. D. from the UFC. And once he got on the phone, I kind of knew. I kind of knew he wasn't going to be too happy with the symptoms because I kind of, yeah, I knew. And I kind of was like, nah, just drag me in there. You know, we got five more. Just don't tell nobody. Just drag me in. And

no, Dr. D was like, no, I think she needs a vitals checked. And so they called the paramedics. Wow. And they checked my vitals. And my heart rate was just super high. And then it would it would plummet when I sat down. I stood up, my heart rate would shoot back up again. Wow. And, you know, if I was laying down, my blood pressure was good. But as soon as I sat up or stood up, my blood pressure would drop. So, you know, then they were like, you know, we got to take you, we got to take it into

the hospital and have you test it. And that's when I was like, yeah, I had my little breakdown. Because I knew, I knew once, I figured once I got brought into the ER, I wasn't, my night was over. What time was this at? I remember getting to the ER around like two or three o'clock in the morning. Okay, on Wednesday going into Thursday. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were resisting it, you were fighting it? Yeah, I told them in the ambulance they tried to IV me. And I was like, don't give me any IV because if I put any weight on, maybe I can still, I was like, somebody called Dana. Somebody called Mick. Oh, man. Get my manager on the phone. I was like, call Ali.

Let's see if we can do something at 1.30. But I knew if they put an IV in me, I would go up to 31, you know, 30 and a half. And so they put a line in me in the ambulance. I was like, let us give you some fluids. And I was like, no. Oh, my gosh. Maybe I can do this, just stay where I'm at until nine. Because Dr. Drew was like, I'm not letting you cut no more.

Like, that's it. Okay. So what I was trying to ask was, could I just stay where I was and see what we can do at 9 a.m. at weigh-ins, give up percentage of my purse or whatever. But I got to the ER, they drew some blood and was like, no, you've got acute kidney failure. And we have to get a bag in you. Wow. And, you know, I kind of was like, you know, can I sit like this?

And it was like, if you sit as dehydrated as you are, it's going to get worse. And then, you know, she started talking creatine levels and I just kind of broke down. Oh my gosh. You got emotional. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you knew the opportunity.

Yeah. I knew once they bagged me up, it was just, it was a wrap. Have you ever felt anything close to this in terms of cutting weight? I mean, obviously, maybe not kidney failure, right? Or have you? Not that I know. Okay. Yeah.

Have you ever felt anything like that? No, not that bad. It's never been easy, right? No, no, no. It wasn't easy in the house. I've had other cuts before. I've been an athlete for 10 years. But that's kind of why I knew something was up because I had never felt that before. There was lots of discomfort. There was lots of, you know, eh, eh, like there's a lot of, it's hot in there. You're hungry. You're thirsty. Your lips are chapped. Cutting weight's never fun. Right.

And I've always been able to just duke it out. But, you know, some of the doctors at the hospital can't explain the whole background. And they were like, you probably hurt yourself six weeks ago in the house. And that's probably some carryover. How so? You know how doctors are. Because I was like, it's not that bad. Give me a bag. Get me out of here.

Of course, the doctor's like, you've got kidney failure. And I was like, yeah, technically. They were just saying I had probably done so much cutting over the past couple of weeks that it probably didn't take much for my kidneys to be like, okay, something's wrong. because I might have done some mild, you know, stress to my body at some point, especially being that it wasn't that long ago. I was like, oh, six, eight weeks ago. And you're like, you know, in terms of your body and your kidney six to eight weeks ago,

it wasn't that long ago. So, you know, but the doctors really, the doctors I talked to at the hospital aren't as familiar with M&A and weight cutting as anybody else. I kind of was like, yeah, well, you guys are playing more on the safe side. Okay. Do you feel like you did anything wrong? Like at the beginning of this camp, like, could you have started lighter,

should you have not done this or that? Was there anything that you could have done to avoid this? Or was it inevitable maybe because of, you know, all the stress you put on your body on the show? Well, I'm not sure. Okay. Obviously, in hindsight, it's always like, man, could have done this, would have done that, etc.

The only thing I wish I had done differently, I wish I had gotten with Clint and the UFCPI earlier into camp. Okay. I didn't really start using the UFCPI as a tool until like the last two weeks. And Clint already was like, okay, well, we got another big, big cut ahead of us. You know, so, and I was working with a nutritionist,

but I, the only thing I wish I had done differently was work with the UFC in the UFCPI sooner, like right out of the house. Okay. Because I was talking to Clint, too. He said I probably rebounded pretty bad from those couple of cuts too. Okay. So, you know, just going forward, just got to evaluate my body and really revamp my whole, my whole nutrition and training process because I never really had a chance to walk around as a flyweight before.

And so I think that just played the biggest factor in everything. When were you officially ruled out of the fight? I don't know exactly. Okay. But you never even tried. Like you were never on route to the way ends, right? No, I never, no. No.

We went from the UFCPI straight to the ER. Did you stay there overnight? They, I got to, so I got to the hospital, what, 2, 3 a.m. Thursday. And so they wanted me to stay overnight into Friday. Okay. But by Thursday night, I was like, test me again, get me out of here. Okay.

I had two and a half bags and was drinking a ton of coconut water, a ton of power. Just drinking lots of fluids, getting some food back in me once my body started acting normal again, using the restroom, et cetera. I just, the doctor was like, I think you should stay until tomorrow. But I was like, can you just run my blood one more time and see if my kidneys are functioning? And he came back. He was like, you know, I think you should stay, but I'll release you if you want to go. Okay.

I was like, yeah, get me here. You left? Yeah, I hate hospitals. Yeah, yeah. They're depressing, right? Yeah, yeah. Nothing makes you more appreciative of life when you're in a hospital. Even, like, for a good thing, like when you're there to visit someone, you just want to get the hell out of there. Yeah, get the hell out of there. Yeah.

And by then, you know, everyone else is doing open way-ins and, you know, Jamal Patterson was out there with me, but he had to go be with Deanna. So then I was in the hospital, like, by myself looking at TV. Oh, no. Don't get me, get me out of here. I've never been to a hospital before either. So that was my first time. You never been into what? I've never been to a hospital before.

Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. Ever. Except for I guess the day I was born, maybe. Wow. You've led a good life. Yeah. So I've never been in the ambulance. I've never been in a hospital. I was like, this is for the birds. Get me out of here. Wow. I want it out. As soon as I got back to normal. That's a good motivation to never go through this again, right?

Absolutely. Absolutely. What was it like, so you're out like two, three, four, you're in the hospital, but then it took a while for the news to get out. So like it's quiet. And then I'm sure there's like a flood of. reaction what was that like once it kind of settled in that you weren't going to fight for the belt um you know it's tough you know it's heart-wrenching because you know i've been working so hard for this and to get that close off of um something that you know i have to take responsibility for you know as professional it's my job to make the weight you know i was sick but i got sick trying to make the weight um so it was tough man it's tough you know i ended up going to the fights

that night and literally sitting cage side and watching really Watching the belko buy is, for as heart-wrenching as it is, like, it also makes me even hunger to want to get it back. It makes me even more motivated. Like, you know, I right away was like, Clint, man, what we're going to do, you know, talking to my coaches, talking to Clint, talking to everybody. So for as heart-wrenching as it was, you know, this game has ups and downs and you take some knocks. And I just happened to take a knock right before I was like arms reach from my goals. And, you know, I got to do what I got to do to get back. So it is what it is.

Why did you decide to go to the fights? Because I felt like that was a professional thing to do. Okay. I had a teammate on the car, Dina Bino's fighting. I had a bunch of friends from the house that were fighting. And I just felt like, you know, after talking to my family and my coaches, and I just felt like it was the right thing to do. Okay.

You know, I'm a professional. I'm here. I ain't getting rid of me. So, you might as well sit down. I thought maybe you would just go home. You wouldn't want to be around it, watch it, witness it. No. My goal is to be the champion.

My goal is to fight in the UFC for the rest of my career. My goal is to be the best woman ever stepped foot in that cage. And I felt like part of my process of moving forward and getting back to where I was, is to sit down at the fights and hold my head up and move forward. How was the UFC towards you once this became official? Did you speak to Dana White or McMainer? How did they react to the news? Man, Mick and Dana have been super awesome to me.

I didn't get a chance to speak to Mick face to face, but I did speak to Dana. They were like, you know, you still got a job with us. And, you know, they asked me sort of what happened and what went wrong. And, you know, they've been nothing but great to me since then. They were great to me leading up to the fight. And they've been good to me since then. And the biggest concern was my health. They were like, we want you to be healthy.

And that's the biggest concern for us as a company. And so, you know, I apologize for missing the weight because I do stick to it's my responsibility as a professional to make the weight. And so I told them, you know, I let you down for a main event, main card. But I will be back. And that's what I told him. He said, hey, Kay, we just want you healthy and we'll be happy to have you. Are you going to be back as a fly weight?

Yes, sir. Why? Because this is my weight class. You believe so? I believe this is my weight class. I will have to do some changes. I think, to be perfectly honest, I was a little spoiled in the house because I was able to cut so much weight. Okay.

What do you mean by spoiled? I was able to cut from, I was able to cut 20 pounds at a time. And it was hard, but I was cutting it. Okay. And I thought I would be able to do that one or two more times before I had time to revamp my body. Okay. I've been doing martial arts for 10 years. In Jiu-Jitsu, I fought at 163.

In MMA, I've been fighting at 135. I've been walking around at 50, 55 for the last four or five years. So it takes time to reframe your body. I'm probably going to have to cut back on a little muscle mass and do what I have to do. have to do to walk at 145. But I have a lot of professional professionals in my corner that look at my stature in my body and say that, yes, you do have the frame to walk in the low 40s in a healthy way. Okay.

And you can cut to 125 in a healthy way. We just have to get you to that walk-around weight. And the cut from there is going to be just like everyone else's cut. It's not going to be as dramatic as it's been. So if my body can physically walk at flyweight without doing damage to my health, then I'm a flyweight. I'm not going to get chased out of the division because I made some of the, these calculations in this last cut.

Do you feel like you're smaller? You're too small to be a bantam weight? Do you feel like you're at an advantage as a flyweight because you may be bigger? Yeah, I don't think I'm, everyone says I'm bigger as a flyweight. But if you look at my reach and my height, I'm actually smaller than most of other flight weight. Wow, how tall are you? I'm 5.4. Okay.

And what's your reach? Like 67, 58. You know, most of the girls I fought at, I mean, when I was fighting an abandon weight, these girls were cutting from like 55 and 60. They're 58, 59. Your stature is just bigger. Yeah. I believe I can fight at Bannumweight because I think I have the size to do it, but I don't have the height and the reach.

And I think I'm more structurally successful at flyweight. Okay. So I just think it's just a matter of getting my walkaround down. So yeah, I'm a flyweight for sure. Prior to the ultimate fighter, how many times had you cut to 125 or 126? Once. Once. In 2013 or 14.

Were you nervous going into the house? No. No. why? Because I just knew it was my time. Okay. You know, I had cut to flyweight in like 2014 and it was a rough cut, but at the time there was only 115 to 135 in the UFC. So I kind of decided I should probably bulk up to ban on weight to get into the UFC because there wasn't a 25 at the time. Right. And when they announced the ultimate fighter, I was like, boom, I'm in there. Absolutely. And I had already bought my plane ticket when they said, this is going to be for flyweight and for the

inaugural belt. Okay. And I wasn't nervous because I knew this was my time. I knew I was going to do well in the house. I knew the wake up was going to be rough because I had been walking around as a being in weight, but I knew that, you know, I've had I decks of scans. I knew my body could do it. And so I just couldn't, I couldn't pass up an opportunity.

I couldn't not try out because it was 10 pounds. Okay. I just couldn't not try to get my foot in the door and try to let the world know who I am. And I did exactly that. I knew I was going to have a hard time in the house, but I knew I was going to do well. You had to cut your hair. I had to cut my hair. Damn. But now, my hair's cool now. Yeah, it is cool. I've got like a manish bun thing happening. I can put designs on the sign. Yeah, it's awesome. But that, I mean, it takes a long time to get hair like that. It does. Did it break your

heart? No. No? Yeah. My goals will be the chint, man. You don't care about your hair. It'll grow back. All right. As long as I'm not a full boldie, that was the one thing. You got to leave some on the top. How did you, how did you decipher like how much I should cut without going too far, right? Unnecessary. Because I, because I, I've been growing dredge for a long time, and I know they can be heavy, especially once they get long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I used to, you know, I'd jump in the pool and your head. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had already, the sides were already gone, but the length was about shoulder length, and I still had the whole back.

Okay. And so I was kind of feeling around. I actually give a little shout out to Ariel Beck in the house. Okay. I was sitting there, and I was like a half pound off, and Ariel was like, didn't you tell me your hair is like a whole pound on its own? I was like, oh, you're right. And so we just, you know, I just kind of felt around. I just kind of know my hair.

And I was like, I bet you if we just take the whole back off and then about three or four inches, I bet you that I'd get us there. We got to the sniping. Unbelievable. Yeah. So looking back on the experience, I mean, it doesn't necessarily end well. I know this is the beginning of your journey, but just being on the reality show, it's all done. It's out there in the world. Are you happy with it?

Absolutely. Oh, I loved it. You did? What did you love about it? It feels like a nightmare to me. How many weeks? Six weeks? Six weeks, yeah.

Geez, Louise, no contact with the outside world. None whatsoever. You recently had a kid. Yeah, yeah. How were you away from your kid for six weeks? It's incredible. You couldn't talk. Couldn't talk to my kid.

No FaceTime, no nothing. No FaceTime, no nothing. I came back to a whole new kid. Yeah. She was like. How old was she when she left? When you left? Six weeks.

Six weeks. Yeah, so she was a little tiny little. She was just kind of laying there, just kind of looking around. Yeah. Back she's like trying to sit up. She's like rolling over. She's like pulling bubbles. She had developed so much that six weeks.

That didn't hurt you? That wasn't hard? It does. It's hard. You know, it's hard to be away from your kid. It's hard to be away from the people that you love. But I set my daughter up for the whole rest of her life by getting this opportunity.

No one would know who I am right now if I didn't do that house. You know, I got to fight Roxanne Mata Ferry for Friday the season. I got to fight Deanna Bennett. Went in a good fight. Mya. Stevenson. I got to be on TV every week on FS1. And I feel like I've set myself up for a career. And you're still on the UFC?

I'm a free agent right now. You are? I'm a free agent. Interesting. I didn't know that. Okay. So you didn't have to get a job. permission to do this?

No. But, you know, I don't know how exactly it works. I've been seeing guys like Gilbert, Al Joe. Yeah. Well, if you're not contractually tied to them, you don't really have to ask for anything, right? No. So you fought out your contract? Yes. The last fight against

Frankie Perez. Against Frankie that. Interesting. You know, I was under the impression that Frankie and I were both kind of, because we had come off a few losses. Yeah. I thought it was one of those like sink or swim kind of deal. Whoever loses this fight, you're out. it's a lightweight division.

You know how the lightweight division is. It's stacked. Yeah. So, you know, I feel, obviously you saw my tweets. I feel misled. Yeah. That's where that anger kind of came from. Okay, so let's talk about that.

There's a lot to unpack here. I'd even know that you were a free agent. Matt Matreone was on the show a couple weeks ago. He talked about how Joe Silva, according to him, lied to him about the size of the cage. And then I saw on your Twitter, you were like, oh, yeah, I kind of know, I've had my own issues with Joe Silva in the past.

who of course is no longer with the U.S.C. What happened with you? I mean, I think from the jump, he and I just never saw eye to eye from, and I never had a conversation with the man face to face like this. Really? Never once. The only thing we've done is, you know,

shake hands with him, give a little head nod, thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it. And the way that I heard through my management at the time that he was speaking about me was just like, it was infuriating, you know? What was it saying? You know, I went to redo my conference.

contract when I was three and all. I guess it's standard. If they see that you're trending in a good direction, they're going to re-extend your contract before you get to that last fight. Right. I think probably what it is is it gives them a little more leverage. If you win your next fight big, now they're looking at having a really like deal with you, you know. So I did the standard, the eight and eight, the ten and ten, the twelve and twelve. I put the first guy to sleep in a minute. It was like one of the quickest debuts. Yeah. You know, Dana, giving me a hug as I walk in the back you know I'm thinking after this first fight like my dreams are coming true here this is going to be amazing like everything I've worked so hard for I got to the Boston fight in January it was like

you know maybe four months later and they put me against uh lip ping yeah and I beat him like 30 26 but I wasn't proud of the fight too much grappling not enough like too much trying to submit the guy and not enough trying to put him away with my striking and uh I won 30, 26, but I never watched the fight still. Because I was just like, I was down on the fight, you know. And from that moment, I got a sense when I went, even in backstage, I saw Dana, saw a couple of people. Like, they didn't even really want to, like, conversate.

They were kind of like, you know, I tried to reach, hey, hey, hey, just kind of right around you. I was like, something's not really right here, you know? And then it took me six months to get my next bout, being two and oh, asking. Asking, asking, I'm healthy. Yeah, me. And it had to be a short notice. They gave me like, all right, we'll throw him on three weeks, New Orleans,

Whitmetrione. Yeah, yeah. Which is where I kind of started, like, getting to know him a little bit. Okay. Against Jogos, who got a raw deal, in my opinion, too, with them. But I thought we got after it pretty good. You know, he was bloodied. We were going at it.

I won that fight, 3027 again, lost, like, no rounds. and I got no discretionary win bonus, which is usually standard. My teammates will tell me, dude, I get discretionary bonus when I lose fights. Really? You didn't get one when you want to fight? I'm like,

and this is the pre-sale era. We're not talking about the new UFC, right? We're talking about the old. This is the old regime, yeah. And then when I got to 3 and 0, I thought I had like, you know, just a little bit of leverage. Yeah, one fight left after that? One fight left.

Yeah. Yeah, I think I was coming up on like 14 and 14. So I said to my manager, hey, do you think maybe we could, you know, negotiate up just a little bit? You know, let's get a little pay bump, a couple grand, you know. He's like, you know, I'm going to ask, I'll go ask. He calls me back, like, distraught, Chris, it didn't go well. I'm like, what happened? No-go?

He's like, not just no-go. I mean, he laid into you pretty good on there. Joe Silva? Yeah. Okay. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, I don't even want to repeat. the things that he said to you, about you on the phone.

Really? I was like, it was, what? How? He's like, it was ugly, man. What? It was ugly. And I'm sitting there like, what did I do to this guy? What did I do wrong to this guy that he's talking about me like this? You know, we've never had a conversation, nothing.

And after that, that's when I started getting booked with like, first it was tie some off. And I was like, all right, you know, let's go. Yeah. The visa issues. in Boston. So I wound up submitting Medi Baghdad. I'm 4 in 0 now.

I won the top 15 fight. I'm like, let's go, let's do this. We're climbing to the top. So they give me a mega Madoff in the Netherlands. And he pulls out, and without calling me, they give me Kabilov. Yeah.

And I'm like, you know, that didn't seem like standard to me. What do you mean without calling you? Like if someone pulls out, usually you'll have a conversation with them about like, all right, what's our options? Yeah, yeah. Because I wanted a top 15 fight. Yeah. And I wanted a fight in America

where I think I'm marketable. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm one of the better looking guys in the division. I think I'm one of the most athletic guys on the roster. I wanted to be promoted. I wanted to fight a James Vic at the time, Kevin Lee. I wanted my chance on one of these up-in-comers. Without a conversation, they're like, nah, he's staying in the Netherlands. He's fighting Kabilov.

You know, it is what it is. We take, kid, you know, I don't know if you saw that fight. Didn't go my way. And then, so that's three of the Russian guys in a row. And then my next fight, my manager calls me laughing, but like nervous laughing a little bit. I'm like, what is up? He's like, you're not going to believe this. He's like, they gave you, you got a fight, but it's another

Dagestani guy. And I'm like, no, no, it's not. Who is it? So he tells me Islam, I wasn't familiar with him at the time. But he told me that there was like a PED issue. And I don't know if you've ever seen my Twitter, but I'm pretty vocal about how, you know, contact-oriented our sport is that you're trying to harm each other in there. Yeah. So I'm very against PEDs, you know.

So I was like, no, I'm not, you know, he's coming off an appeal suspension where, like, he didn't really say he didn't do it. There was, like, an issue with the language barrier or something. It was a new on the band substance list. Yeah. I was like, no, you know, give me someone else. and that's when I knew like this is a problem

he's like you know I'm on board with you Chris we're going to tell him this isn't the fight for us calls me back he's like that did not go well I'm like again

no what could have possibly happen now he's like he said he's going to cut you that you're in no position to turn down a fight who do you think you are blah blah blah

now I'm watching guys hand cherry pick fights all across every division to try to work their way to the top. Now I'm like, this guy, this guy's got it out for me. And he basically said that. He's like, he's got it for you, man. And I think they were trying to trim the roster down.

And I think he tried those two losses in a row. He tried railroaded me and put me out after that. I wound up with new management and, you know, I was able to get on that Long Island card thinking I'll write the ship. Now, by the way, did you change management because of this? Yes, I thought that this, I contacted Sean directly because I thought I didn't believe what they were telling me about. John Shelby? No, my management. I didn't, I was like, how could this be? Yeah. They're telling me, he's looking for a fight for you. He's looking for a fight for you.

And then I'm like four and two. I had the four-fight win streak and then the two losses to the Russian guys who haven't lost since. And they're like, you know, they give me like a short, no way. They call me about Felder. Felder fought someone in like Nova Scotia or something like that earlier this year. He was supposed to be on the Barclays. So I take the fight. I say yes to it. And then they give me the guy's name who he wound up fighting.

I say yes to both names. I'll do it. I'll take it. And no one even answers me back. They just booked the two of them. Oh, my God. And this happened like two or three times this year alone, where I got cold about something.

And then no answer back after I said yes. So after that, I get a call on saying, like, yo, I think they're just going to let you go. I'm like, you just gave me a fight offer. Last week, what's going on right now? So I went around, contacted Sean. Like, we need to talk, you know? And, you know, I have respect for Sean.

He treated me like, you know, a person. He didn't demean me or anything like that. But he kind of passed the buck a little bit, in my opinion, onto Joe, you know, trying to trim the roster down. I'm going to try to get you about, but I'm not sure. And I wound up getting that Perez fight. Yeah. And I think I won all three of those rounds too.

Right. Wasn't my best fight for sure ever. I wasn't that happy with it, but I thought I was, you know, next contract. Moving on, let's go, let's move. I was told after that fight, we're going to get, we're going to do your next contract when we get you your next opponent. So I waited from July to, you know, around my birthday in September. I'm hearing nothing.

I'm like, something's not right. So I start calling, calling, calling. And that's when I, they don't even come straight forward with you. They just like kind of, that's why I made the reference on Twitter to the guy from office space, who they don't, he doesn't really get it and they don't want to really tell them like what's going on, but he keeps getting moved and tucked away. And it felt like that. And, you know, I just, I feel like I got railroaded, you know.

And so they never offered you anything? No contract offer, no fight offer. Nothing. After Franks. I just kept hearing that it was going to happen. It was going to happen. It was going to happen. We got a lot of guys to get fights, like this, this, that, and the other.

And then just, I'm still sitting here. Wow. They haven't made. Five months later. Yeah. And, you know, I got, I got, it's not to say, like, woe is me, what was me, but to me when I earn the record that I have I have two first round finishes and that's why I blew up and I'm watching guys like on the cart main card no offense to those guys they're on the main card this dude has no win streaks and never has put somebody away and Sean's tagging him like their buddy buddy after the fight he didn't finish again the dude's like a half a decade older than me there's no consistency in anything that they're doing or rhyme or reason and that's when I got frustrated I'm watching Michael

Quinoes and Sage. I called Sage out when I was three and oh. No love, nothing. Called Lance out after my last fight. Nothing. It's like, I tried to look and see guys that have been, this has happened to,

and it's always the same thing. It's veterans that are getting paid a lot of money that they just don't see the value anymore in it. My contract is still very reasonable. The only guy I can see He's like the guy Holman was like four and three, but he put that speedo on and got himself in like, or if somebody got in trouble outside of fighting.

But. Nothing. I don't know. I'm left to, all they tell me is like, you know, it's not right what they did. So at this point,

are you moving on? Yeah, I'm moving on. You think your UFC career is done? I think so. Wow. I don't. This is shocking stuff.

Yeah, I don't, you know what? It's not healthy for me, for my mindset. Like, they made me wait. 10 months, they've made me feel every fight like a pit bull that's not the whole organization.

I love the PR guys, Chris and Christian and everybody that's Dean and they're all amazing people, great people. But the way they treat the fighters, I mean, look at my buddy Aljo, like this weekend, excellent fighter. Anything can happen in there at any time. You think that that's worth what you're giving us? and for that, and then you're going to treat us like this on top of it. Like, to me, that's where I had to like just voice my frustrate.

Yeah. All right. How much fun was that? 34 in-studio guests this year. Amazing. I've said it. There's something about the in-studio guests that's just different. The one-on-one time, the face-to-face, you get a little more out of them, extended time. It's just so much fun. It's something that I've always wanted for the show. And now with the new set, the new studio, I feel like we have the perfect setup for this sort of thing. So thank you very much, New York, Rick, and the rest of the team for compiling all of that. Some of the biggest names in MMA, some of the biggest names in combat sports came by.

And now it's my mission in 2018 to top all that. I have no idea how we will top all of that, but I will try. I will certainly try, my friends. Alberta, Rio, Chale's son and Scott Coker, Mia Kang, Fodor Rominoenko, Matt Mitreone, Michael, Michael Chandler, Chris Wyman, Dylan, Dillon, Chase Sherman, Pat Militich, Jimmy, Vera, Shane Burgos, Paul Felder, Heather Hardy, Lou Debella, Stephen Espinoza, Ally, Quinta, Mickey Gall, Saponatal, Musassi, Till, Illinic, Vic, Lee, Brown, St. Pierre, Costa, Hager, Taunin, Van Suss, Eubanks, Wade, thank you to all of you. Most importantly, thank you to all of you. Really,

what a year it has been. My favorite year for this show, it has been so memorable from early January, our award show up until now. It's been the best year in the history of the program. We've done more shows this year. We went on the road. We had a couple of specials. More in studio guests, as I said, couldn't happen without all of you. So thank you so much for your support for tuning in week after week for pushing us to put on the best product possible. And I guarantee you in 2018, we're going to do a better job. Thank you to the crew as well. Thank you for making the show so great. And, I mean, most importantly, I hope you all have a great holiday season and a happy new year. We're back in early January for our award show. Can't

wait for that. January 2nd to be exact. We'll see you then. Pace, I'm out of here.