MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Ciryl Gane’s Performance, Next For Aldo & Luque, Anderson Silva vs. Tito Ortiz, More

Episode Date: August 12, 2021

Host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and Alexander K. Lee as they battle each other and journalist E. Spencer Kyte in a special triple threat rules matchup on the program.   This week, the panelists react to Ciryl Gane’s impressive third-round TKO stoppage win over Derrick Lewis in the main event of UFC 265 to become interim heavyweight champion and give their thoughts on the future unification bout between Gane and Francis Ngannou, discuss Jose Aldo and Vicente Luque’s outstanding performances on Saturday and what should be next for both fighters, the recently confirmed boxing match between former UFC champions Anderson Silva and Tito Ortiz at Triller Fight Club’s Sept. 11 event, Bellator and the PFL’s events on Friday and what fight stands out above the rest on both cards, and more.   Plus, special guest Ariel Helwani joins the show to judge the knockout round and crown a winner.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow E. Spencer Kyte: @spencerkyte Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MMAFighting.com. And as you may have heard already, this will be the final Thursday edition of the show. We'll be moving to Tuesdays beginning next week. Maybe not all of you are aware of this. Not even the whole panel was aware of this.

So listen, in good news, you're going to get two shows in five days. How about that? But we have questions that are unanswered. We have a lot to discuss. And we are making history with our first ever triple threat match on BTL. So let us introduce the combatants. We'll get to our first question first. We welcome in the Prince of Positivity, the co-host of On to the Next One,

The Way and Show Guru from MNAMAFighting.com. Mr. Alexander K. Lee. A.K., how are you, my friend? I'm doing great, Mike. I'm excited to have a UFC free week, but also we do have some action from the PFL and Bellator on Friday. So, you know, no rest, no rest for us,

but a nice little change of pace. So that's exciting. So I'm happy to be here and have to be here on this historic episode. That's right. And you get your AEW shirt on, so triple threat rules. You're very familiar with it.

that and Chris Cherich are on my chest right now. Oh, there you go. So this is perfect. For the listeners at home. This is perfect. And back from a few weeks away, he had a, you know, re-energize, hit the refresh button a little bit, and he's back to claim the winner's throne. Fiery hot takes are soon to happen here on BTL.

Let us say hello to M.A. Fightings. Jed Michue, how are you, Jed? I'm doing great, Mike. Look, everyone knows champions don't make excuses. But the reality is, the last time I was on this, program. I was compromised at a nasty case of the flu. And, you know, champions, they just show up anyway. They show up to do what they can do. But I think we're going to see a much different outcome now that I am no longer hindered by the chemical warfare that I feel my opponent may or may not have,

but may have an act upon me. All right. And let us introduce that, man. He's not looking to just take out one member of the site. But two, in one fell swoop from UFC.com. He's got his own newsletter. The man is all over the place. Let us welcome back. E. Spencer Kite. How are you, sir?

I'm happy to be here. I've beaten each of these guys individually. Why not beat them at the same time? I mean, I love just, we start off right away with champions. Don't make excuses, but here's my excuse. This is going to be all kinds of fun. I can't wait. Let's do it.

It is going to be all kinds of fun, but let us take care of some business first. Go ahead, Chuck. I don't talk about Tito Ortiz, and so it just felt it's not necessary. That's right. You know, I didn't quite have a cracked skull, but I was bedridden, and just for weeks, really, just took two hours out of my day to come for the fans and for the people, because that's who I do it for, Mike. I'm here for the fans. And we appreciate that very much, Shed.

So let us begin with the unanswered questions, because last week we turned it over to the fans themselves. as to who would be the winner of the matchup from last week's show between A.K. and Spencer. They both gave their reactions to the booking between Fador and Tim Johnson, which, by the way, I spoke with Tim Johnson for what the heck. He is handling this all beautifully. But we had a lot of people chime in on this, whether it be on Twitter, some people texted. We had a lot of DMs on Instagram, which I had a count this morning, and it took quite a bit of time, more time than I could have possibly expected.

but as I noted, not only would the individual who got the most votes win last week's show, they'll still be here to debate topics here, but also we'll get an automatic buy into the knockout round of this triple threat matchup. So with the votes tabulated, the man who will reap those wonderful benefits is Spencer Kite. He is playing with house money here. He will get to the final question. Now let me just add, this will not... Listen, they love you, AK.

Everyone was very kind in their answers and their responses. I love AK, but Spencer just had the better argument. They agreed with him, and that's it, AK. I'm sorry. Don't apologize to me. Apologize to all the people who supported me who are feeling so robbed right now, whose voices are not being heard. I'm not going to demand a recount, not in this climate that we're living in today,

but I'm just saying I would love to see those actual. I would love to see those actual numbers, Mike. I would love to see the numbers. It was very close, AK. It was very close. It was back and forth. But people just, no one was mean about it. Some people just loved you, AK, and picked you because they love you.

And most people just went with Spencer. And that's it. It was a very close thing. But I will say that will not happen this week. I have put a contingency plan in place since Casey Leiden is not here. He will not be here. So that will absolutely not happen again this week. We will have a winner.

More on that later on. But Spencer, congratulations. Did that type of BS contingency plan where Sean O'Shahti comes in and is the judge specifically so he can give me a loss, despite the fact that I argued circles around my opponent? No, Sean O'Shaughty will not be here today. I can guarantee you that. But Spencer is in the knockout round. Jed AK, only one of you will make it to the knockout round this week. One of you will be going home.

And only one of my wonderful colleagues will get some. that final question and I will judge the four rounds as a whole. So we're doing pride rules this week on BTL just to keep things on the up and up. There'll be no Tom Foolery. There'll be no ties at the end of four rounds. I'm judging on the whole of the episode. All right. So let's get into this gentleman. Let us discuss the fallout of UFC 265 this past Saturday night. Let's talk about the official coming out party for one zero gone. Completely dominates Derek Lewis. Striking numbers were outrageous. This was a masterpiece from Cyril Gond as he is now the interim heavyweight champion of the world. Jed, we will begin with you. Let me just start here. Did the way you viewed

Cyril Gahn after that win change a lot in your mind compared to where it was heading into it? No. It just reinforced what I already thought. I mean, I've seen that narrative a lot and a little surprise because, to be frank, I was stunned by how many people picked Derek Lewis coming into this thing. I think most of our staff felt that Derek Lewis was, he's going to do it. And I love it. I love the optimism. I love the hope.

I've been a fan of MMA for far too long to have hope. And it was very obvious to me that Seorgan is a much better fighter than Derek Lewis and is not, you know, he's not deficient enough or dumb enough to walk in. into a big right hand. So he was going to win like this. I was a little surprised how quickly he was able to turn, like, turn the corner, right? Like I thought Gong was going to win maybe a late stoppage, but, you know, probably a decision. But when he, when Lewis's leg gave out on him, gone, gone smelled blood and he finished it.

So that's really the only thing that impressed me or I guess not impressed me because all of it impressed me. It was a great performance. But that's the only thing that I wasn't entirely expecting was just how fast he snapped on that killer instinct. But yeah, I came into this fight thinking Seerogon was arguably the most difficult challenge for Francis Inganu in the division. And I left this fight thinking exactly the same thing. What did you make of Seerogon's performance, Spencer? How much did that performance change your view on him? Same as Jed, not at all.

I mean, I picked him going in. I've been as high on this guy as you can possibly be from even before the UFC. He was fighting up here in TKO in Montreal and looked good to go through the progression he's had as quickly as he had. There was no way for me to, like, the only thing for me was figuring out where his ceiling sits. And I still don't think we have. I mean, as Jed said, to go out there and have the performance that he did, to have that

opening, create that opening to finish, and then pounce. We saw that early in his career with a couple submission wins. He had those couple decisions where the guys he was fighting didn't really give him opportunities. They played it a little bit safe. They were a little bit back and kind of just made it so that he goes out and he gets 25 minutes of cage time and he looks great. And Derek Lewis, the fight played out a lot of ways that I thought it would except for that third round finish where You know, as soon as you saw Derek start to, you know, mess with his eye a little bit when he got punched a couple of times and they were both from punches, the leg goes. And Cyril Gunn just just jumps right in and shows us that he is the elite heavyweight we thought he was, or a lot of us thought he was going in and sets up, ideally, fingers crossed, knock on wood, a matchup with Francis Ngano that is just amazing to me. A.K., I mean, we've talked about this event and this fight a million times at this point,

and we got your thoughts on this on multiple shows. Heavyweight has always been, you know, baddest man on the planet. Scariest guy always has that look of just a scary individual. And Gahn, you know, still wants to be the baddest man on the planet. But his approach to the game, it's definitely not the same as others. He doesn't take himself too seriously. He's not a big trash talker. He just smiles and has fun and goes out there and wins fights.

So, AK, let me ask you this. Is this a good thing for the heavyweight division in the UFC? Can the UFC build on this to the point where God just can't be a great fighter for them, but maybe he could become a star for this organization? I'm always hesitant to say anyone can become an actual, like, mainstream crossover star outside of a select few. Even like a Connomer Gregor, I remember when he first burst in the scene, came on with so much hype behind him. And I wasn't sure, but obviously he surpassed all those expectations.

I mean, he can be someone that you can build the heavyweight division upon going forward. I don't know if that makes him a star necessarily. Because again, when I think star, it's really only a few names. McGregor, Ronda Rousey, like Brock Lesnar, maybe more recently, like Jorge Mosvidal, the Diaz brothers. Again, guys who can kind of cross over. I don't even know how much appeal he can have in the world of MMA. Like you said, he's super nice. he's just not going to build up a fight in a nasty way.

And there's ways, I mean, I mean, there's certainly ways to become a star that way. I keep comparing God his fighting style to George St. Pierre. I think he's almost going to end up being like the Georgia St. Pierre of heavyweight where people might not always like how technically he is, but if he can rack up, if he should get past and gone and rack up a bunch of defenses, then you have a real draw on your hands. And also then that affable personality becomes unique in this business of so many people

kind of emulating each other and talking the same way. So, so there's an outside shot that he can become an A-tier star. But I really see his ceiling as like B-tier, which is fine. Again, that's, again, most UFC champions I would put in the B-tier. And his personal help him in that guard, but I just don't think he's larger than life in such a way to become, to make it to that next level. And how much is winning the title and beating Derek Lewis the way he did help him? I don't know if it changes that much.

I think it's nice to have a championship belt for sure, but also, again, this performance, I don't know if it won people over who weren't fans of Gone in the first place. So, Q rating-wise, he kind of is in almost the same range as he was before. So as we all know, A.K., Gahn's going to go on eventually and face his former teammate, Francis and Gano, to unify these titles. And personally, I couldn't be more all in on this fight. It's just really interesting, like, recancy bias or not. I know how the sport works, but the storylines, the same thing.

styles, Gahn just looking so good technically against the life-altering power of Francis and Ghanu. I love it. A.K., are you all chips in the middle for this fight? And how do you gauge Cyril Gahn's chances against the terrifying Francis and Gano? I mean, I'm all in, but I don't like this talk that, like, oh, we're definitely going to see it now. These interim titles guarantee nothing.

They guarantee nothing. It's the logical matchup. But I'm sure there's a lot of people who are still hoping that, you know, somehow John Jones and in Ghana who gets made, you know, when 2020 rolls around. Maybe in Ghana doesn't fight for the rest of the year. Maybe, you know, I know he said he was expecting to fight in like September, which is why, you know, a lot of us are saying, like, why did this interim fight even happen? Couldn't he have waited a month?

I had him fight Lewis or gone then. So that's a whole mess. So theoretically, he should be ready. But I don't know. Everything changes every week. If John Jones talks pick back up again, then he's going to wait. He'll wait to whatever John Jones is right. I don't think he'll want to fight someone before John Jones, right?

So personally, yes, I hope this fight happens. I think it's a great, great, great heavyweight matchup. Again, mainstream appeal? I don't know. Is this something that can like, both guys are so, you know, so respected and so well known now that they can crack like 700,000 pay-per-view buys? I think that's a stretch. But maybe I'm underestimating the inherent draw of the heavyweight title.

And again, Francis Inganu, still fresh off that win over Steepa. This will be his first offense. So maybe there's more interest there. But, yeah, I love Gone's chances. I think, like everyone's saying, he's so technical, so athletic. He has the perfect style to deal with Francis and Ganu to avoid getting that big cabosh, as it were. I'm leaning towards the champion. I was not surprised when I saw the early odds come in for Gone.

He had just won a big fight. I get it. MMA is maybe the ultimate. What have you done? for me lately business, so it's fine. But I think when the fight actually rolls around, I bet in Ghanu will be favored. I bet it'll tilt in his favor, but nothing like crazy, maybe like a minus 150, something like that. But again, Gond is a super live underdog. If you even want to call him that, given how he's dominated the competition so far. And he absolutely has

the tools to beat his former teammate. Spencer, what do your thoughts on lines? Because, like, as you know covering the sport, odds makers put out future lines, like in case this fight happens. And the lines got reopened right after Saturday and gone opened as the minus 130 favorite, the comeback on Francine Ghanu currently is at plus 110. Are you surprised by that? Like, did the odds makers get this one right in your opinion when they reopened this thing? I'm not surprised at all. And I mean, yeah, I think they got it right because exactly what AK said.

You set lines, they often get set by recency bias. So we just saw a great performance from Serial Gone. It's been a few months now. since we saw Francis Inganu. And the other thing with lines, the same as the other thing with, you know, the point spread in football as we got the NFL coming in a couple of weeks, is they're made to encourage the most betting. And so when you set Francis and Ganu as an underdog,

all of the people that think there's no way this dude can lose and I'm getting them at value are jumping on there. I think we'll see this end up probably pretty close to a pick-em, just because there are arguments on each. side and the more, if it ever comes, if it does happen, and the closer we get to it and we're seeing the highlights for Francis Ngano's performances and we're remembering just how impressive he looked against Steeping Miocic and the fights previous to that, I think it'll narrow and maybe as AK said even flip to where Francis and Gano becomes the favorite.

But as for the immediate, it's perfect to me. We saw it come out the way it did because of what we saw last Saturday. It'll change a little bit, but it's it's the exact right way to do this to get money on both sides, which is what, you know, sports books and, and betters want. Where would you line this fight, Jed? How much of a chance are you giving Cyril Gahn to beat a guy a lot of people feel could be the heavyweight champion for a very, very long time? I think it's a really good chance. I would want to, I want to take a little more time to kind of give a pick, if you will, but I think this is at least 50-50. I could see this.

I mean, AK mentioned a GSP previously, and I could see this GON being a GSP, and in that in Gondh serves like Matt Hughes, the first time he meets him, he just has a little bit of a backstep, but then when they rematch each other in a couple years or maybe in a year or so, then Gons got it. I think one of the things we don't talk about enough with Francis Ngano because he's so young in the sport, he's actually not very young. It's like 36. And even at heavy way, you can, you know, be successful in much deeper into your age

range than for other divisions. But 36 is still, that's a questionable time for any professional athlete to continue being an elite level professional athlete. So, like I said on fight night right after it happened, I think Inganu is, the greatest athlete that the UFC has ever seen other than maybe Joel Romero, like just that physical power presence ability. Like I think that he is the top ever. And that is good enough because he's also super tough and has some underlying technique there.

That's good enough to carry him over basically everybody. But the guy who's going to beat him is going to be a guy like Sirogan, who is also really, really a plus athlete, but has a lot more of a technical depth than a guy. who does. So when they match up, and I do think that's what's coming. I don't think we're going to get any other chicanery going on. I could see Ghan just outpointing Ghanu over the balance of five rounds because he can

throw a little more volume, be technical, be safe. But I can also see Gengu just being the greatest athlete the sports ever seen and blowing his doors off. Either way, though, I don't think Inganu beats Ghani beats Ghan, you know, three or two out of three. I think these guys are going to fight multiple times over the next few years, and I do expect at the end of all that gone to have the belt for real, for real. I love this fight. I cannot wait for it. Hopefully we see it by the end of the year. I'm very intrigued by it, but that was the main event for UFC 265. I'm actually like exhausted talking about Serogun. I mean, he deserves all the praise,

but I've just been talking about it so much. So let's discuss the other big talking points coming out of that event. A lot of it has to do with, you know, where does this person go from Saturday from that fight in Houston, Texas, that event. Let's start with Joseo Spencer Kite. The man put on a 15-minute masterclass against Pedro Munoz. He continues to defy father time, and he's still a major player in this game. Now at a different weight class at 135 pounds, which, you know, you can have the debate on whether 135 or 155 is the best division, but you can't argue that 135, 135 is the deepest division in the sport. There's no doubt about it. It's not easy to do what Josealdo did to a guy like Pedro Munoz and Josealdo went out there

and did the damn thing. So my question to you, Spencer, is what did you make of what we saw from Josealdo on Saturday night? And what is the fight to make? I mean, like you said, it's, it's impressive to see a guy go out at his age with the miles he has on him, down a division from where he dominated, where it didn't start great and have a performance like that against. against a guy that has been a stalwart in that top 10 for four, five, six years now in Pedro Munoz who just racks up fight of the night performances, who's in, who's a tough out for anyone that shares the octagon with him to go out there and constantly beat him to the punch. And win a clear, clean decision was was a tremendous showing and, you know, kind of reminded

everybody that Jose Aldo is still very much in the thick of things here at 135. What I want to see next is Dominic Cruz because there's a part of me that thinks, and look, I'm a big Pedro Munoz advocate, but there's a difference between beating Pedro Munoz and beating those guys in the absolute upper tier of this division, like T.J. Dillashaw, like Rob Fon, like Corey Sandhagen, and like the two men that will fight for the title later this year. And so I want a little bit of that nostalgia. I want Joseo Aldo, Dominic Cruz, old school.

will WEC throwback, get Joe Martinez announcing it, maybe even do the little blue cage set up, get Dave Schaller to come back and hang out Cadeside and just love it. But I think we're going to see him fight one of those guys that isn't in the title picture. He asked for T.J. Dillashaw. It makes a lot of sense, both in terms of the name value of both guys, where both guys are at in terms of the division, in terms of kind of waiting to see how things shake out. but I kind of just feel like if he gets matched up with Dilleshaw or with Fon or with Corey Sandhagen, it gives us a little bit of the reminder of that Piotr Yan fight where it was competitive early, but then it just can't be competitive late because Jose Aldo just doesn't have the juice to hang

with the absolute elite class of this division anymore. A.K. Josie Aldo continues to go out there and impress. I know we talked about this on onto the next one, so you have a little bit of an advantage here. Have your thoughts change on this? I mean, wax poetically on what Josealdo did on Saturday and what is unequivocally the fight to make next for Josealdo, Jr. Josie Aldo is still like the best striker pound for pound in like in the world.

I just really stand by this. I know there's evidence against, there's empirical evidence against it. We've seen him lose fights. We've seen him lose fights to Max Holloway twice. Okay, so I understand it. But from like a technical aspect and just from, gosh, there's something musical about the way this guy strikes and when he's fighting. And it's so missed, you know, when we don't, when we don't get to see him fight off enough.

And it was great to see him back in action. I don't care so much about ever seeing him compete for like a title again. If it happens, great. You know, but Spencer mentioned, like, I believe he can't compete with the top guys at 135 anymore. There's reasons to believe that should fights go into the fourth round, fifth round, he's a bit up there in age, he's got a lot of mileage. Those are not ideal scenarios for him because he was putting up a great fight with Peodor

Yan. I just feel like Peoria Yon outlast him, and Peirreion's a great fighter, it's fine. So I'm totally for you putting, although in almost this legend's rotation, but again, with other guys who with one or two wins could be back, could be back in a title picture. I'd love to see him fight Frankie Edgar again. I know that story's been told. Two fights.

If it happens in 135, it would be cool. Ahead of that, of course, Dominic Cruz. That's the fight we all want. I don't believe at all in the, although we will kill Cruz at this stage of their careers. I don't understand that at all. That's a dream fight. That's a fight that we should all be clamoring for,

not shaking our heads out. Like, oh, I know who's going to win this one. No, you don't. No, you don't anime fans. I'm just debating with general anime fans now, not even Jedd and Spencer anymore. And then, of course, there's the possibility of Adelashaw fight, which I'm sure Dillashaw would be amenable to as well because he's a big name. And if Dillashar has to fight again, for getting a Teleth shot, he probably would see Aldo as a winnable fight, which again, I don't know about that.

And again, someone with the kind of reputation and view that Dillashard wants. So give him these older guys. I don't need to see Aldo in there necessarily with like the Rob Fons or like a Maraud Valdivili, maybe some way down the road. if he really just wants to stay busy, you know, but give him, at this stage of his career, give him these magical dream fights that we've been waiting for. And if he falls bass backwards into a title shot, more power to him.

But otherwise, just let me watch the man cook. Let me, this man is a chef of striking. Let me watch him cook. A few things have given me more pleasure in my, and in my MMA fandom that's seeing Jose Aldo fight. So please match him up with people his own age, who are still contenders. Jed, there's a few things people know about you

when it comes to this show. You've been on quite a few times. since its iteration. We know how you feel about Steve A. Meitchitch. We know how you feel about Brian Ortega. Sucks. And we know how you feel about Joseo Alto and what he has done in his career. And you're going to get the chance to reiterate that at a moment more vividly.

But what is the fight to make for him now after this performance? You know what? Let me add this just to make things a little bit differently. With the rematch between Al Jermaine Sterling and Piotr-Yon, your favorite rematch of all time, being now official for October 30th. Is Joseo Aldo now the biggest Al Jemaine Sterling fan on the planet? Look, I want to answer your question, Mike. I really do.

But I can't because I will not let this slander go unpunished. This is absolute horseshit. I don't know what he's talking about. Jose Alba is the greatest. He doesn't need a Legends tour. He needs to get a title shot because the Josie Aldo from the other night, he would whip their shit out of Al Jermaine Sterling. I don't need any of this.

He needs to fight old guys and Dominic Cruz. You know what? I'll be the M.MA voice here. I'll be the fans for you, A.K., because Josie Aldo would whip the shit out of Dominic Cruz. The only reason I need to see that fight is because it's always enjoyable to watch Dominic Cruz be humble by. I'm about to the hell out of that.

And because it's a guaranteed win from a boy, and I don't want Josealdo to maybe lose to somebody. Because, yes, he can. lose to other top bannam weights. But, you know, if the balance of Jose Aldo is he can't beat Peter Jan, who might be the best bandam weight in the world. He's not. Aljo technically is, but maybe Piotrian is that dude. Also, it's just a bad style matchout for him.

And Aldo was whipping Jan's ass for three rounds. And then the way Jan works, it's not about going to the fifth round, which both of these gentlemen seem to think is the problem for Aldo. It's not. It's about an escalating amount of violence on the other end of things. Max Holloway didn't beat Jose Aldo because they were in a five-round fight. Technically, he did that first one because Aldo probably wins the first one on the judge's card, even though things had started to turn.

He beat him because Max Holloway is a snowball rolling downhill. And it's not that he is still as good in the fourth round as he is in the first. It's that he is better. He is increasing his volume. Piotrion is exactly the same way. Those are very difficult style matchups for a guy who drops off a little bit. But if there was a fourth round the other Saturday, all of what happened is Pedro Mew was where we got in the shit kicked out of him for another 10 minutes.

It's not the Algo can't do this. So I can't abide the things you've been said about the boy. I am super serious. I think he beat the shit out of Al Jermaine Sterling right now. Aljo does not build on himself. Well, he really needs to be able to force. athlete exchanges. We've seen how that has worked for literally anyone who's tried to wrestle Aldo, except for Volcanovsky, who is much larger than Jose Aldo. I think he'd beat

the hell out of Sterling. I think there are, like I said, there's some Bannamway to beat him. I think Corey Sandhagen is a very tough matchup for him, but in over five rounds, that might be too much for him to, to beat because Sandhagen will build on that offense. He won't just stay the same. But I think he's competitive against absolutely anybody in the division. And he, he needs to be fighting a fight that puts him in a title shot. Like he does not need to say, I am the biggest, to get back to you, Mike, he is not the biggest Al Jermaine Sterling fan. He doesn't have to be. He is because if Sterling wins, that tease him up to not have to even take another fight. Sterling gets to basically choose, but I rather face Aldo on a hero, you know, here's the

legend of the game who's maybe more winnable, or do I want to face Dillishaw is also a legend, but there's a whole lot of baggage there. So in that respect, he is. But he doesn't need that. Like, if Jan wins, Aldo just needs another win to get a title fight. It doesn't matter as long as it's against the top competitive, you know, God. Because Jan, yeah, Jan beat him, but that was a very competitive fight for a lot of it. And that was also still when Aldo was pretty fresh in this division. I think you can make a compelling case that Aldo has improved. He's still getting better. He's still getting more acclimated to the weight cut to fighting at 135. And I'd watch the hell out of a rematch there.

So, yeah, it's better for him if Sterling wins. I don't think it is determinative at all. It's just who Aldo fights next, gets him a title fight if he wins. Wow. So that is Jose Aldo. We could continue this on for a while, but in the sake of time. Yes, but now let's see if any of that. You talked about how offense continues to build throughout a snowball.

Let's see if that snowball gets bigger, Jed, because we're going to talk about Vicente Lucay now, because he goes out and submits Michael Kiesz in the first round. He hands Kies's first loss at 170 pounds. And this man has quietly put together an absolutely incredible resume throughout his UFC career. But now it took this performance in everybody's eyes, Jed Michoud, including Dana White. He is under the radar no more. So Jed, keep those matchmaking shoes on. Let's get that snowball rolling down the hill super quick.

The Walterweight division, obviously in a very interesting spot right now. We got Usman v. Covington that rematch, expected to take place in November. What do we do with Vicente, Luke, Gade? now, what would you advise him to do since there's not a ton of options for him for what he actually deserves right now? I advise him to explicitly and exclusively talk shit about Kamala Ustman for the next six months. That is the only thing that he should ever be saying.

If a mic's in front of him, it needs to be calling out Ustman. Because for two main reasons. One, if Ushman wins in this supposed upcoming rematch, Luka, I think, is clearly the frontrunner to get that title fight. cares about Leon Edwards. If there's another thing people know about me, it's that I don't care about Leon Edwards, and I am not ashamed to tell other people that they don't need

to care about him either. No one does. And so, Lucke is a frontrunner for that next title shot at Usman. Honestly, one of the most frustrating things about the Colby Covington title shot, aside from the fact that it's very obviously not earned in any respect, is

that this fight was on the horizon. They, like, were booking that fight, despite that They had Leon Edwards, the Gilbert Burns Wonderboy thing. They had a lot of other fights right there. And the UFC was like, all right, we're going to give it to Colby. No one cares. No one's clamoring for Colby coming to get a title shot.

And he doesn't deserve it anyway. They should have just waited anyway. And if they had waited and not been like, yep, Oosman's defending against this guy, 100% Lucke would be the dude with the title fight for later this fall. And there's no chance to be like, let's give Colby, got a stoppage over Tyrone Woodley like two years ago and hasn't really fought. Let's give him over this dude who's the most exciting welterweight in the world and just blowing the doors off people.

They're not going to do that at all. Lucas deserves a title fight and he just needs to sit and keep calling for it. He'll get it next. And he might even get it a lot sooner and later because let's be honest, if there's one man, there's one man in the entire world who can talk himself out of a title shot. He's only coming to. He's done it time and again. This man knows the only thing he knows better than,

you know, I'm not going to say it because I don't want to get fired. The only thing that he knows better than, let's say, red hats and awful statements, is how to shoot himself in the own foot. So Colby Covington might well find himself not with a title shot in a couple of months because he really, really is good at screwing things up for himself. And if that's the case, Lucay, he's in there. Like, if somebody gets hurt, he's in there. Lucke just needs to sit tight.

He's got the next title fight. He just needs to hold on and make people want to see him in there by talking that shit, baby. Talk your shit, Lucay. AK, do you agree with this? Should he just keep caught out Usman and wait for the title opportunity to fall in his lap here? No, because I don't think it's going to happen. I just don't think the UFC views him in that way that they're willing to lock him into a tell shot. Clearly, he's on the short list, and we've seen stranger things happen.

Again, Jen makes a good point that, look, if people fall out, Lucay is the kind of guy who they know they can call on two weeks' notice, five days notice. He'll probably be ready. He's not going to finagle too much over pay, very likely. he's as far as we know as far as we've seen very much a company man so yeah as a fan of his I would hope that that was a realistic option for him and one that him and his team were considering like let's just look we've done enough let's let's get this title shot but I think and he what what luke has actually said is look he wants those kind of fights with like a Nate

Diaz or Jorge Masvedal and and that idea I support so much yes it's risky but again, if a title shot, like I said, we're guaranteed, I'd say obviously don't do it. But we need to make a star of this guy. Lucay is so exciting. I think it was 13 out of 14 of his wins, UFC wins, or finishes now, or 12 out of 13, it's insane. It's insane. For someone in the welterweight division, one of the toughest divisions, to have that kind of finishing rate is wild. But at this point, that's really all we have to market him on is his exciting fights and his finishes.

And we've seen other fighters, you know, never quite make it to that next level of fame just based on the results. It sucks. That's the way the sport is. But when you're a guy like him who's kind of modest and kind of soft-spoken, if they can't sell themselves, then you got to give them rivals, right? I don't know why we're bringing up GSP again, but I guess he's just relevant to, he's always relevant. He needed like the Josh Cause checks, a Matt Sarah. You know, he needed guys to kind of beat us Nick Diaz, of course. He needed guys to be that other side to talk for him.

Usman, we said he's one of the breakout fighters this year. His rival with Mazvedals would took him up there. I don't know if he keeps reaching that next level of fame without a guy like Mazvedal dogging him publicly for so long and then him taking Mazur al. And Mazvadoal needed Ben Ascran. So people, these guys need rivals. I don't know if Luke Kay, he just hasn't had that opponent yet

or that big win. But I think a Nate Diaz or Jorge Mazvado, man, I mean, it might be respectful because I think, I would imagine both guys would kind of like Lucke. He's kind of up their alley. But at the same time, just them being involved. If he beats them or even went to a five-round, I assume they made it a five-round fight for whatever reason,

a five-round, like, exciting fight, that would elevate him. So I'm not focused on the title shop for Lucke, but I do want to see him become more famous. He deserves to be more well-known. And he needs an opponent, I think more like a Diaz or Mazadol, more than trying to wait for a title fight that might not come anytime soon. Spencer, looking at this division, looking at what Lucay has been doing as of late, and that, you know, AK just sort of laid out, you know,

finishing all of his wins except for one. And that one was an absolute bloodbath with Mike Perry, one of the craziest fights I've ever seen. But what's the right move for Lucay? What side of the fence are you on right now? Are you on just wait for a title shot? Are you on find another fight, find the right fight? I don't think he's a wait for.

for a title fight kind of guy, like, regardless of whether it's the right decision or not for him, that's not who he is as a competitor. And so it's not in his nature to just kind of sit back and take six, eight months off in hopes that this comes together to then maybe down the road still have to take a fight. So I think he'll very much be out here trying to get something in the next kind of four or five months, if not sooner, maybe try to line up with that potential title fight between Usman and Covington so that he can be the backup in there. The other thing that kind of sucks for Vicente Lucke right now is that he's best friends with Gilbert Burns.

And Gilbert Burns is out here doing the work that if Vicente Lucke wasn't such a wonderful, humble, quiet, unassuming human being, he should be doing. I know Jed said no one should care about Leon Edwards, but Vicente Lucke should care about Leon Edwards and be out here doing what his boy, Gilbert Burns is doing, and just talking as much junk as possible to get that fight, because Leon Edwards has a win over him.

And Edwards can always just point to it and be like, yeah, you guys think this guy is great? I whooped his ass a while ago. And he lost Stephen Thompson a couple of years ago. Who's he pointed to? No one knows who Leon Edwards is. No one knows. He can go out and say, you don't care about this guy. You want this guy out of the mix.

I'm the Leon Edwards killer. Let me in there with him. This is what I do. because all the things you said, Jed, about Colby Covington are 100% correct. It's ridiculous that he's getting a title shot, even just period. It's ridiculous that he's getting a title shot off a stoppage over Tyron Woodley when other people have subsequently beat Tyron Woodley, that being Vicente Lucke, who also then beat Mike Kiesa.

And so to me, it's a situation where Lucke has to kind of go a little bit out of character and call somebody out. And I get the appeal of Nathan Diaz and Jorge Masvedal from a big kind of name standpoint, and it's going to draw more eyes than Leon Edwards. But if everything Lucay does sort of reinforces and gives Leon Edwards opportunity to be like, oh, so I beat you once and you don't want to run that back. And now you want to fight the guy I beat for 24 minutes just a couple of months ago because he's a name, it creates even more opportunity for there just to be confusion.

And so Lucke needs to just come out and say, Look, Gilbert, I appreciate what you're trying to do of getting yourself back in the mix by calling out Leon Edwards and going hard on Leon Edwards. But this is the lane I need, please. So get out of my way. Give me Leon Edwards. Give me that rematch.

Nobody wants him in this title picture except for maybe me and his family members. I'm going to come out here and finish him because that's just what I do. but unfortunately he is the silent assassin and he will just sit at home in Brazil quietly working on his craft, sharpening his tools, getting ready to kill whoever the UFC offers him

or whoever ends up falling into his lap and it's going to end up being somebody like Neil Magny. Well, I mean, I like both sides of this. The reaction on AK's face tells me I'm right. I mean, look, it's interesting because I like where Lucke's at right now. also like where Gilbert Burns is at right now. I like him being sort of the, I'm not comparing him to Caitlin Chukagian, but he's in that role right now where any up and coming contender, he can knock him out and just be like, I'm still here. You have to get through me to get to

the title. And Luke 8 doesn't really have that option. Who knows if like, you know, maybe down the road business is right, the right amount of money comes their way. Maybe those two guys fight each other. I was going to say, I would love an absolute AK's wearing a pro wrestling tea. I would love an absolute heel turn of just, you know, Gilbert Burns put out the, we're brothers, he's my family, this isn't just friends, all like that. I would love a Vicente Lucke steel chair shot to the back, break up the crew, come and stomp on Gilbert Burns, but it's not going to happen. They are 100% tight. I know.

It's, I mean, listen, Brett and No one heart were tight too, but we got some of the best, the best stuff ever in the pro wrestling world from those two guys. So we got some spice. We pulled whatever spice was left. UFC 265 out. We talked about guys who want interim titles. We've talked about guys who currently hold UFC titles, guys who have UFC championship aspirations. And now we move ahead to two gentlemen who have been UFC champions in the past, and they are set to square off in a fight, ladies and gentlemen, but not inside the octagon, not even in the sport of mixed martial arts, but they're going to do it in the boxing ring. Triller Fight Club, the only promotion on planet Earth that

could make this happen, has made it happen. September of 11th, Los Angeles, California, Staples Center. Headlined by Oscar De La Jolla versus Vitor Belfort, MMA fighting first reported on Wednesday that Anderson Silva, the former longtime UFC middleweight champion of the world, will take on Tito Ortiz, the former UFC light heavyweight champion of the world in a boxing match, 195 pounds on that same card. Wow. Spencer Cite, this was not of my bingo card at all in 2021. It should have been, but it wasn't. How do you react to this news?

Fart noises. That's how I react to this news. This is like this was a just keep scrolling as I saw it pop up on Twitter because it means absolutely zero to me. It's as you said, not something I was thinking about probably should have been because this

is exactly the tire fire we're steering into. this year and going forward with the Triller Fight Club shows and these crossover, let's put whoever we can in a boxing fight to draw some eyeballs. But this is like,

I know people got excited about Anderson Silva going out and beating Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. And thinking this is, Anderson now has the second career and he can move into boxing and he's beaten a real boxer. Mike Coppinger from ESPN,

formerly of the athletic, came out yesterday. was like, look, Sears Chavez, Jr., is like a B-level professional fighter on his best day, and those best days are a long time ago, so let's not overreact to the Anderson-Silva thing.

And then his opponent is Tito Ortiz, who needs to make, what'd you say, 195? Like, when's the last time Tito made 195? So let's, like, and also, when's the last time you actually really cared about anything Tito Ortiz was doing for anything other than a pure like look at this ass clown reason. For me, it's just keep scrolling. You guys will cover it.

Jed's been to a Triller fight show. I know he had a great time. I'm sure this will be a wonderful event in terms of the chaos of it all. But I just, I can't be bothered. I do not care even a little bit. Okay. UFC. U.S.C.com will not be checking in with Anderson,

Silver ahead of head of his wife. All right, thanks. Good to know. Okay, I want to get your thoughts of this, and then we'll give it to Jed, because I have a feeling that snowball is going to, it's going to turn into multiple snowballs. But we saw Anderson Silva get his mojo back. Hold on it.

Hold on, Jed. Hold on. We'll get to you. But, AK, we saw Anderson Silva get that mojo back in the boxing ring. You can say, my commenter can say what every wants about Julio says our Shavis Jr. But there aren't a lot of people who thought Anderson Silva. not only could win that fight, but would even be competitive in that fight. But Anderson Silva went out there.

He had the swagger, the smile. He's dancing around in there. He just looked so happy in there. Like I've been seeing Anderson Silva that happy in years, many, many years. And we thought come out of it. Big fights, big opportunities were in his future. And he gets Tito Ortiz. And yes, AK, this is a fight he is heavily favored to win.

And probably as we get closer to September 11th, is going to be even more heavily favorite to win. And I'm sure he'll make some good money. But outside of that, AK, do you find a lot of positives in this? Of course I do. Of course. How can I not? Mike, I don't think I was as happy watching Ederson's Civil fight in a long time as I was when he was in there boxing up,

Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr. So that joy, that he felt that was emanating from him in that fight, that was felt, I think, by all of us, by almost all combat sports fans who decided to take a risk. and check that fight out. A could have gone horribly wrong in many ways. It didn't. We got like the best outcome we possibly could have if you're an Anderson civil fan.

Now, would any of us, pardon me, would any of us have wanted to lead into something like this, a fight with a fellow MMA legend in the boxing ring? I don't know. I think I had called for something with like Fador. I think I thought that would have been a lot of fun. But obviously, we know Fadour has his own actual fight

coming from Moscow, Tom Johnson. I would have loved that. I probably would have gone pretty far down the line before hitting Tito if we were going to stay in the M.M.A. vein. But, I mean, when you think about it, it makes a lot of sense, particularly based on Triller's M.O. All right. Look, Triller is here for controversy.

All right. We're talking about it. A lot of people we're talking about it when it, you know, when it was announced a report, I'd say. And yes, there's certain people like Spencer who just are like, they thought about it for a second. And we're like, that second is all I'm giving it. And that's fine. That's fine. You're going to have that with any of these, a lot of these fights at the Trulloper's up.

The whole Jake Paul experience is, is divided into two camps of people who are like, yes, I'm all in. I think this is interesting and compelling and I'm going to check it out. And people are just like, I don't want to read about this. I don't want to see this on legitimate combat sports sites. So they're going to polarize. This isn't on that level, but picking gut like Tito, I think they knew that that's what's going to happen. And they gamble.

There will be enough people on the pro side to make this worth their wow. And I think there will be. I think it is. Admittedly, look, Spencer, I'm like him. I'm not a fan of New Ortiz. I'll go out and say it. I'm a bleeding heart like liberal. You know, so me and Tito Ortiz's politics are definitely not lining up.

I'm not a fan of that aspect of his life, how he carries himself in that regard, as he did when he was working for the Huntington Beach City Council. I thought it was just the whole thing was just a grotesque circus. So yes, I will get some joy out of seeing Andrews and Silva beat him in a fight. one where he'll very likely be able to dominate, be able to style on him. Yeah, when the weigh-ins come in, I have a feeling it won't be $1.95. That's probably the plan now. It'll probably be closer to a 5, or Ortiz will just come in heavy. And we'll just go to the fight will proceed with that, you know, as a catchway to, they'll figure something out.

I just, I'm with you. I don't think $195 is in the cards for Tito. I'll be very impressed me he makes it. But I don't think there's anything wrong with a good versus evil narrative, which is I would like to think how the majority of people who are interested in. in this particular fight would view it. It's a great way to sell. It's sold for decades. And I don't understand the call for like, oh, Andrew Silva needs to fight more legitimate

boxers. I'm like, at this stage of his career, is that really like an option for him? Someday, but for now, don't we just want to see him, again, having fun like he did against Kulir, St. George Chavez, Jr. Don't we want more of that? And I think this fight does give us more than that. More of that. excuse me, I'm dreading some of the trash talk leading out to it that's going to come from the Tito side.

But otherwise, otherwise the fight itself, I think is, I have no problem with it. I think I'm endorsing it. I think I'm going that far. I think I'm telling people that they should, if they have fans and his solar fans, that they should watch this fight. Chad Michoud, I'm very intrigued and excited to hear you have to say. Because I can't wait for this. I have no idea how you're going to react to this. I know with you in these types of fights, there's no middle ground.

You're either going to think this is super fun or this is just the worst thing ever. So which side of the fence are you on with this right? I'm a middle ground with me on anything, though, Mike. I'm a man of extremes and I can't believe what I just heard of say. I can't understand any of the things going on right now. This is going to be awesome. this is going to be the best. I sincerely hope the site flies me to L.A. for this in September because I had such a good time at Triller 1 or whatever we want to call that barnyard explosion that I am enthused about this second one.

And they're doing everything right. Rakey touched on it like the good versus evil narrative. That's exactly what this is supposed to be. I don't know how. The thing he said that really blew my eyes, I don't know how he's so like. like not looking forward to the Tito Ortiz trash talk. I couldn't be more looking. Tito is the worst talker the sport has ever seen.

It's going to be incredible to watch him step over himself while trying to make PED allegations. Like it's just going to be awesome. And Anderson's going to like, Anderson is also one of those really interesting things where he clearly understands and speaks English very well, but sometimes he'll just kind of like pretend he does. doesn't. It's going to be great. I'm super excited about every aspect about this. And something

neither of you mentioned, everybody kind of touched on well, Tito's going to be a big underdog. Look, the thing that's the most interesting for me is we've watched Anderson Silva be one of the greatest strikers of all time. Look at the target. He gets to aim at a big old dome of Tinos. He's going to find new ways to hit a man in the face. It can only happen because Tito's head is so enormous and he's so accurate. How is anyone anything other than excited and thrilled about this? Like this is

just the best. Yes. I'm going to fool for Anderson to walk away beating JCC Jr. because like that's the best win he's ever going to have again. Like he's never going to get a win that means more

that means more to people and historically. Like that's the top of this particular career, you know, part for him. but he wants to keep fighting this is an exactly perfect fight it's very low risk we get to watch a beat up with dude that everybody hates

it's gonna be awesome and we just get to watch that big old dome get off on it's gonna be the best I'm so excited I can't wait to watch the Borahina Depot Twitter account over the next month it's gonna be a lot of fun amazing listen Jed

Jed I think we're on this maybe we're not I'm not into all the same aspects that you are, but I do think we're on the same side as this. And look, this is the point I feel like in every triple threat where two of the guys kind of turn on someone. So Spencer, I mean, we haven't turned fully, but I think we definitely may have done a little, I meant of Irish whipped them into you. I think he gave him a little that shoulder block. So we haven't like broken out of Spike Pilegeyver on Spencer yet, but I do think you and I are definitely, we're kind of like gave us to that nod, like, you know, let's take care of this guy

first and then we'll deal with each other after, you know. I don't know about that. I feel like Spencer's more into watching Tito stumble all over as You're like half the fun. The trash talk is going to be wonderfully terrible. And that part's going to be. Because exactly what Jed said. Anderson's going to be up there doing the pretend I know speak English bit, which is just like, I mean, and look,

it's one of my favorite things in the world to see Anderson. So like you see so many of these athletes that clearly understand English and know exactly what is being asked of them. and then do the like, I'll give you a cheap little answer just because I'm not one. And it's going to be great. And Anderson's going to just laugh and he's going to clown him. I just can't get like hyped up and excited to spend a Friday or Saturday night watching these two 46-year-olds well past their prime where there's no stakes. There's no anything other than as Jed said, watching Tito Ortiz's giant watermelon of a head get exploded by it.

Anderson Silva. It's just not the same to me as stuff that matters. I'm going to be watching. I don't know if excited is the word I'm going to go with, but I mean, I'm not missing it. I can tell you that right now. I'm not taking it too seriously. It should be a nice showcase for Anderson. Who knows? Maybe Tito and, you know, his watermelon head can shock the world. I'm sure he's going to release some unbelievable quotes for us to discuss, but that's going down and around a month, Jed. All I'm saying is I was very on the fence about watching this, like, when it was just the Oscar V-Tor thing. Like, that fight has limited to no interest to me outside of a real sicko, like, version of interest. But now that this is there, I'm all in. I'm here with Bell's on, baby. Yeah. No, I agree.

This is like five times more compelling than the main event. Yeah. What a world we live in, ladies and gentlemen, as we head to our final topic. a big one for Jedden A.K. A last chance to impress me before taking on Spencer in the knock-around. Let's talk some MMA this weekend. Bellator is back with Bellator 264. The middleweight title is on the line. Gagar Musassi will defend against John Salter. PFL will begin their playoffs. Welterweight and lightweight will be on the bill. The headliner for that card is Roy McDonald against Ray Cooper the third. A.K., we're going to begin with you, sir. Which card?

stands out to you more, and which fight is the one you got circled for this weekend over any other? The Bellator card is definitely stronger. I'm not going to argue that. There's a lot of good fights on this Bellator card. It's really, really, really flying under the radar. But the main event, I can't complain about it all. I think John Salter is a good fighter. Do I give him a chance of beating Musassi? Not much of one, which is why this isn't my pick for the fight of the weekend. I think, I think Musassi wins a pretty comfortable decision or finishes John Salter with strike. more likely finishes John Salter with strikes. Let me put it that way.

But I think it's a pretty comfortable win for Musassi. And Salter is a gamer, for sure. But I don't know how entertainment-wise. I'm not sure how entertaining that fight will be. And then you got Koreshkov, Homasi, which, gosh, if Homasi can draw him into a brawl, oh, it's so much fun. And then Megam Medov and Rofian Stats, which again, and the bantam weights, guys, bantam weights are great everywhere.

And this is just another one of those awesome matchups. And I'm sure there's a bunch of them forget. Oh, Pam Sorensen's going to make her belt or debut. so that's going to be fun to see. So the stronger cart, Beltor for sure. But man, I am really, really looking forward to this Roaring McDonald's Ray Cooper fight. I'm probably one of the only people in the world who, like, actively keeps up,

keeps track of like the PFL standings and how the math works and stuff like that. It wasn't hard this year. There was only two regular season fights. And right after the last card at PFL5 that Roy McDonald and Ray Cooper fought on, I did the math right away as soon as the night was over. And I'm like, holy crap. we are getting McDonald and Cooper, which I think if your PFL officials,

is one of the matchups you would have, you would have wanted to happen at some point. I mean, ideally in the finals, I guess, but with only four playoff bouts, you know, beggars can't be choosers. So getting at any point is great. And stylistically, it's great. I think Ray Cooper is just such an enjoyable got to watch.

He's kind of got his reputation as a brawler, but he's also like a really good wrestler. So there's this contrast with Roy. He's also a good wrestler, but a little more technical with a strike game. And I just like how the PFL format works. I'm a big fan of it. So I do like that.

There's just so much inherently on the line. And I would implore people who have not watched PFL at all this year to give this card a shot. Or at least at least the main event. It'll be on ESPN2, I think the main card. And just really, there's an inherent tension to it. Try to ignore all the on screen graphics. There's like a million graphics on screen if you've never watched the PFL before. But if you do want to know how fast someone's punching.

or how much PSI they're putting on a headlock, then you will be very, very pleased. I'm sure some people have always wondered that. But that is my fight of the weekend. The co-main is really good too. Megamad Karamov, sad we see. And Clay Collard and Manfio could be a effing scrap. But as far as the most compelling, man,

I am really, really looking forward to Cooper and McDowell. And I have been since the playoffs were decided. Jed, what say you? I just want to take a tangent real fast. and then I'll get on topic. My big thing, I think PFO would be a lot better if instead of doing, you know, like how fast things are going or a PSI, they just need to convert all those metrics to like something that people can understand. Yeah, yeah.

And you say it's like, ah, that's 87 PSI or whatever it is. I honestly, no concept. Right. Like, it'd be a lot of cool. Like, that's like 16 alligator bites. Yeah. So in the same way we measure horsepower, we should just come up with. really weird and narrow and specific things.

And then we're like, yeah, he punched him with the, the force of three Toyota Camry. Yeah, get a spot. Get a sponsorship in there. There you go. Yeah. This is the Toyota Camry punch index. Got it.

Like it's a way cool. On topic, though. I think A.K. actually outlined pretty clearly and Belltor is better than PFL card this weekend. Honestly, this is for my money, one of PFL's weaker efforts. I know that we're deeper into the playoff run, so that's a little counterintuitive,

but lacks for name value, certainly, and I'm just not a huge fan of many of the fights going on. I will very quickly. Are we going to do a low-key-banger, Mike? Do I need to save this or fire? Fire it off, man. Oh, low-key-banger is on PFL this week, though. Basically, if you are looking at a fight card

a bunch of people you don't know and trying to figure out who might be important to look at. Anybody who has an Ove, their last name ends an Ove, just go with that. And PFL Magamad Oumelotov is taking on Leandro Silva. Leandro Silver is really fun. He's done a lot of pro boxing recently, but he is going to lose,

and Magmaudumatov is actually, like, a really good prospect. And so for me, that's, like, of all the kind of low value, or low, I don't know, low name brand stuff that we're looking at this weekend. That's the one that I'd target and say, check this out because probably will be one-sided, but one of those dudes really matters. And on the same note, the Bellator card's right. It is the best one. I don't know how much I want to care about John Salter.

It somewhat distresses me that he is a relevant middleweight in the world today, but there it is. and Musasi is in all-time great, so at least you're getting to watch that. The co-main event, it's a very bellator fight between Karechkov and Hamasi. Probably be an okay fight, but the next one down is kind of where I'm interested in. I will give a shout at. Everett Cummings is an undefeated heavyweight. I'm not going to call him a prospect because he ain't a prospect, but he is a 15-0 heavyweight, and that's the thing that doesn't come around all that often.

But Magamund, Magamatov, Rufian Stats, that's actually probably the best fight of the weekend. Magamadav has a win over Piotrion. He also has a loss of Piotrion that came afterwards. But 18 and 1, like, this guy is an absolute dynamite band-and-weight prospect. And same for Housing Stats. I think for my money, that's the best fight this weekend. Yeah, the heavyweight fight's interesting. I spoke with Davy on Franklin the other day.

What a joy. the way he looks at the sport and it's just wild. So you'll see that interview pretty shortly as he gets ready to take on the 15 and O Everett Cummings. But Spencer, we're going to save you for the interest of time for the knock around because you've already done your part. But in terms of these cards, we will have you covered for both of them over at M.A. Fighting on Friday night. So you don't have to make a decision on whether to watch one of the other or maybe, you know, you could watch one or you can watch both. Why not?

But no UFC this weekend, as AK said earlier. rare weekend off on the road to UFC 266 coming up in about a month and a half, September 25th. But now a big decision. Spencer on the side while Jed and I are just trading haymakers of this. That's right. Oh, my goodness. That's right. He just gets to sit on the throne and watch you guys duke it out in this final round.

He just tire myself out, just punching down at you. But now there's a big decision to be made on this show. Who is going to go on to face Spencer Cighton in the knocko route? Will it be Alexander Kemp? Lee or will it be Jen Michoud? Remember, pride rules are in effect. The bout is judged on the totality of the four rounds

and I hate my life right now. This is a tough one. Don't say that. Don't say that, my best friend. I backed myself into a corner. I have to make a decision. I hate this part of the show. And after four rounds we go to the scorecards. The winner

and moving on to the final question. to crown the winner of the very first triple threat match in BTL history is Jedmishu. Mike, I have a question. So wait, we're crowning the winner via fan vote? Is that correct? No, that was last week's show. Oh, okay.

So you're just picking a winner? I just picked... No, I mean... No, no, no, no, don't you worry about that. I got that covered. I got that covered. And it will all be revealed in a matter of moments. But before we move on to...

to that. A great showing from my best friend. Super close battle, but Jed's going to move on. AK, I'm sorry, my friend. This is a hell of a job. Mike, this is normally where I question the whole system and throw out all kinds of insults that anyone with an earshot. But I really feel like Jed was the better man today. I hate to say it. I hate to admit it, but that is the case. This should not, by the way, go on my record. This is a triple threat. This is outside of the single tell Casey, producer Casey, when it's time to tally my record. This does not count. And listen, I need to get better. I was not my sharpest today.

Mike, I appreciate your comments. I was not my sharpest today. I will get better. That's the only way to improve kids. I know we have a lot of young listeners out there. You've got to accept your... I hope you don't. This is for the children.

You can accept your shortcomings and your mistakes. It's the only way to get better. And that is the lesson of the day. All right. Thank you, A.K. We appreciate your time. I'm going to stick around and watch. You got a stick around and watch us.

All right. Okay. So now it is time for the knock around. And for those who are new to the program, one question will decide at all. Neither of these gentlemen know what that question is. And they will each have one minute to give their response. Once that is done, we're going to turn it on over to a very special guest judge who is going to join us at a matter of moments. Casey Leiden is not here.

I don't want to leave anybody hanging. I don't want to have to make this decision. So I have called upon some. who has guaranteed to call this thing right down the middle. The request has been sent. He will join us momentarily. So until he... I don't like this.

Until he comes on, just to sort of update you on what's going on with the podcast network and everything going on, as you may have seen what the heck no longer happening on Tuesdays, this show will now take place on Tuesdays. Thursday we have something big planned. We cannot reveal that information yet. Next week we have something special planned for Thursday, something that I've been working my ass off on for several weeks. It'll be a write-up and also a little mini-doc podcast that I put together.

It's just wild. The whole story is insane. So that will drop next Thursday. Wednesday, more information on that. It's kind of a wheel spin. I guess that's the best way to describe it. We're calling it Wild Card Wednesday, so be prepared for that. And then the pre and post-fight show coverage, that will all continue on.

So this is all very exciting stuff as we await our very special guests to join us, who will be the ruler and make the final decision. I believe he is in the waiting room right now. And there he is. There he is. Ladies and gentlemen, the man who will bring the biggest show in MMA history back to your life this Monday, August 16th, live on MMA fighting, the return of the MMA hour, Mondays and Wednesdays beginning in just a few days. Let us say hello to the one, the only Ariel Hawani. Ariel, thank you,

sir. Welcome. The day we have been waiting for is nearly upon us, my man. How are we doing? Oh, this is great. This is so exciting to be here on this program. I've been waiting at what, a year change to be finally invited. And I guess I had to join the squad to be actually invited. to be invited in this final round, I do believe, unless things have changed and you didn't tell me to be a judge, is quite the honor. So it's great to be here. Spencer, good to see you actually in person.

I feel like it's been a while. I have seen A.K. Lee quite a bit on my screen. Jed, are we rocking a ponytail there? What is going on? Are you the heartbreak kit? Wow, that is something else. And the NBA fighting shirt, too. I like that.

I like that. get a few brownie points. That shirt was made famous, by the way, by the great Habibnur Magamatov, who for a stretch a couple of years ago seemed to wear it in every single photo op, bizarrely enough. In any event, I don't want to hijack things, but I appreciate the invitation, Mike. It's great to be here. You do a fantastic job as a host moderator here. And yeah, it's great to be officially a part of the squad again. All right. And by the way, I have invited Ariel to be on the show so many times, almost to the point of annoyance. Don't make me pull up screenshots.

because I got so many, but you're a very busy man. I get that. But one thing I will say, just to keep in mind with the judging, Ariel, this is something Casey Lydid needs to learn from when he does this from time to time. You're not judging whether or not you agree with the person making the statement. It's who presents their case better. So you'll be judging on that. You'll be the Earl Hebner of the proceedings, if that sounds okay with you. I prefer Dave Hebner.

Okay. I'm being honest, the evil referee. I don't know if everyone understands that reference, but that's usually my style. Not surprised to hear that KC employs a more biased and corrupt style of judging. Not surprised whatsoever. Typical E.KC. But no, I'm going to call it down the middle here. Completely unbiased.

No strings attached. No favorite. So the floor is yours. All right. So Spencer, you are, of course, the man who has the most recent victory on the show. Three of them, as a matter of fact. You have the champion's prerogative. Do you want to go first or do you want to pass it on to Jed?

Well, first I want to say hello to my countrymen, the returning Ariel Hawani, who in addition to rejoining the great MMA fighting ranks, launched his substack officially today. Go out and subscribe to it as I have. Good to see you. We've spoken a couple of times, but it is nice to see you with your glorious backdrop. Thank you. Hopefully the screensaver doesn't kick in while we're doing. Yeah. And as I learned the first of three times.

that I whooped Alex K Lee's backside. When you have the champion's prerogative, you let the challenger go first and stumble all over themselves. So Jed, I turn it over to you and your spicy hot takes. Oh, and we have quite the question here. So Jed, you are up.

No surprise here. We're going to do a little role playing right now. You, sir, are going to be the person in charge of public, of public relations, excuse me, for Connor McGregor. He has been on a tweet and delete rampage as of late. He's been sort of all over the place. He was all over the place leading up to the fight with Dustin Porier.

It's been getting worse since the loss of Dustin Porier. He's targeting everybody from Dustin Porre, his wife, to Habib and his family, to even Daniel Cormier. It's gotten a little crazy. So, Jed, Conno McGregor is sitting right in front of you. You have a scheduled meeting about his behavior, and you only have one minute to speak to the man. what are you going to say to him? One minute on the clock.

Let me track it on my phone. We don't have Casey's bells and whistles. Your time starts now. Connor, man. Conner, can you just, can you give me the Twitter password? Just to me? You can't. Okay.

All right. I'll say this, Connor. You have stopped punching old people in the head, and that's a win. Unequivocally, it is better for you to be talking shit about Daniel Cormier, who would both kill you and will never fight you

than it is to punch old people in the head on camera. But I feel like there's a middle ground here where you can just not say horrible things about another man's wife and family. So can we dial that back? Because the rest of it, I'm okay. I'm okay with the Daniel Cormier beat. It keeps your name out there.

It looks a little desperate, but you are a little desperate, so it's fine to let that be. But if this is what has to happen, I guess I can live with the man. That's my job. My job is to clean up your message. Ten seconds. Just so long as you stop literally getting arrested, because that is a much harder thing for us to fix.

You're getting arrested, assaulting people, stealing phones. So I wish it was better, but we'll survive. All right. Jedmishu in the books. We turn it on over to Spencer Kite. Same question, Spencer. You are Connor's PR rep. You have one minute to get your point across.

How are you going to handle this? What are you going to say to Connor McGregor in this very, short period of time that you have. Your one minute starts now. Connor, listen, I agree with everything you're saying. I think you're the greatest ever. I don't think you've ever lost a fight. I think you are the absolute business. You should be able to say whatever you want to say, and no one should censor you. But we got to censor you a little bit. We got to get you to dial it back. And while I got him nodding and smiling and agreeing with everything I say, I'm creating a diversion to swap out his phone because this man should not be on Twitter saying the things that

he's saying. So we're going to run a little scam. We're going to have a little schmaws, if you will, like the end of a wrestling match, where Connor's actual phone gets lost in the shuffle and replaced with a little kiddy phone that it looks like he's still posting whatever he wants on Twitter, but I have the real one and Connor McGregor is going radio silent. So we don't have to hear the nonsense and have the tweet and delete fest that we've done. been having. So that's how to play this. All right. With just a few seconds to spare, we've heard both sides

of this. We've heard from Jedmishu. We've heard from PR representative Spencer Kite. And now we turn it on over to the man who will be representing the airwaves starting Monday on the MMA hour back on MNBFighting.com. Very excited for this 1 p.m. Eastern time. Don't miss it.

The lineup from what I understand is going to be tremendous. So wait for news on that. But Ariel, we turn it over. It's always tremendous, Mike. The line-ups always tremendous. The time is already over, Jed. You cannot butter him up any longer at this point. But Ariel, it is now yours.

The floor is yours. Who is the winner of the first ever BTL triple threat matchup? Oh, my God. And, yeah, I'm sad about the fact that I won't be hearing from A.K. Lee, who apparently didn't make it to the end of the match here. So I'm sorry about that. A.K., I was pulling for you, my man. I was pulling for you.

Brownie points to Spencer Kite for using the word schmaws. I like the word shmaws, a great word. And I understood, you know, at the end of the day, you're both coming at this, I think from the same perspective of like we need to dial it back a little bit. I mean, yes, I said at the beginning of all this that I am unbiased, but I will admit that when it comes to my old pal D.C., I am a little biased, right? I mean, he's the ultimate baby face in this sport. and so to make fun of his attire or his physique is something that strikes a nerve.

That being said, I do believe that the best way to tackle this one is with a realistic approach. And I do believe that while I liked the scenario presented by Spencer, I felt as though Jed's approach was more realistic. Connor McGregor is a very smart guy, regardless of how you may feel about his tweets or his trash talk or whatever, he is not going to fall for a dummy phone. What kind of an answer is that?

I mean, the guy will realize this within a second and then guess what? Guess what he's going to do then? Then he's going to fire you and the rest of the team for even trying to pull a fast one on him. So I'm sorry, Spencer. It was a very unrealistic. Can't believe playing to your pro wrestling.

It was unrealistic. You're talking about giving him a dummy phone like I would give my five-year-old daughter. And you started off the right way. But it's just not going to end up well for you and the rest of the team. And so that being said, I declare Jed K. Mishu, the pride of Georgia, the winner of this round. Wow. Wow. I'm back by it, Spencer.

You've been spending weeks just playing towards Casey's just obvious, obvious bias and nonsense. We finally, I've been saying for years now, we need a judge who's going to call it right down the middle. We got one and look what happens. Let's be clear here. I knew there was very little chance that the lone guy without actual MMA fighting ties. That's B.S. Walking out of it. How dare you?

You can insinuate that. First of all, I hate Jedmishu. So for you to even insinit, I just met Mike Heck, a.k. I probably would have given it to him because they're fucking up. Guess what? You're from Canada, too. You don't think I wanted to give it to you?

Minus 10 points for having a Disney product in back of you, I must say. So you were already behind the eight ball of there. But no, I call this on the middle of my friend. Don't shout note the substack. Thanks, my man. Don't blame others for your choke job there. That was a chock job. You offered up a fake phone.

I mean, really? You think Connor's going to fall for that nonsense? No, we need to be practical. I think Connor is going to listen to somebody telling him that he needs to dial it back. You've spent enough time with this man. I spent time with this man. The minute you say you need to stop this, he thinks you're crazy because he thinks he's the king of the world.

That's why you don't say it. You just say, keep not punching old. So the decision has been made. And just like when WWE was at its highest point, the referee's decision is final. You could file an appeal. We have had appeals filed with the BTL Championship Committee. Jed knows that sometimes, I mean, every time it does not go well.

It does not go well. It does not go well. Jed has tried and failed multiple times on this program. So with that, Jed Michoud, you don't get money, you don't get a belt. You already know this. but you get a week, or actually five days worth of acknowledgments, that you are the man, that you are the winner, and now you get 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about,

good, bad, and different in the sport of MMA. Go. I'm going to talk about two things. First, I just don't feel like anybody else saw this, and I want the stigma boost this to the world. Terrence McKinney, UFC fighter Terrence McKinney, within the past seven days, I don't remember exactly what day, was on Twitter and has never seen the showtop kick.

somebody posted a clip of it and he was like, wow, what is that? And Anthony Biden's like, I did that. I did that in the WPC. He's like, oh, I never saw that. And it makes me feel really old. And I don't know how to feel about that, but there are fighters in the UFC who didn't know the showtime kick was a thing. And I just feel like everyone needs to be aware of that.

The other thing I'll say is, Ariel, it is great to have you back. I know that we're mortal enemies. I have a lot of those, though, so it's okay. I'm excited to have you have the MMA hour back in my life twice as much as it was before. And, you know, one of these days, if you're not too busy, I'd love to give you the work on this program. Whoa, wow. So we're going from Judge to participant. Well, I was told a long time ago that you never punched down, Jed.

So you do have a little bit of work to do. I agree. That's why I'm punching up. Yeah, exactly. That's fair. I appreciate that. And I miss that Terrence McKinney thing. That's absurd. That was only 11 years ago.

We're not talking about something that happened 40 years ago. That's actually shameful. I don't even understand how that's a thing. That would be like a current NBA player not knowing who Steve Nash is or that he won two MVP's. Like, that's bizarre. So, yeah. Terrence McKinney seems like a great, great young man.

But that is very surprising and disappointing that he'd never heard. I'd like to think that he was trolling when he said that. No. Like, how is that even possible? We sent a couple messages, like, talking about it. It seemed very odd. Like, maybe it was, and I just missed the troll. But it seemed like he legitimately just didn't know.

Weird. Very weird. Spencer, what a run. There have been, I don't know if anyone's won four BTL matchups in a row. So you'd have been, I think Phoenix Carnivali might be the only person to ever do it. And we haven't seen her. You've won four in a row? I don't know.

That's okay. I'm one in one with Jed, Jed now. so that means we get our trilogy fight. I will be back. I don't need to face A.K. Lee anymore. He's 0 and 3. We're done here. I told him I will be the pourier to his McGregor

and he can come and get it anytime he wants, but I'm done now. We're just done with him. It's three wins in a row. I've moved on. As Ariel's best friend, Daniel Kormey, said you can't call it a rivalry when you don't win one.

Wow. AK hasn't won one. Jed, you and me, next week, since Ariel doesn't want to welcome your challenge. Let's make it another week. Let's do this one more time and settle this. Look, I'm a fighting champ, Mike. I'll take whoever, whoever you put against me. It doesn't matter. Tuesday, Thursday, it don't matter. That's a good promo. By the way, I wish you gave this promo like three minutes ago. I would have

scored it for you. That was a good promo right there. Mike, I will give one caveat. I'll, I'll face Spencer Kite any time unless you're going to finally get me Colby Covington because there's no man I want to give the business to on this program more. Colby coming back. Wow. I would pay for that. I would pay for that too. Unfortunately, we probably won't be able to make that happen until after the proposed fight

with Guar Usman, because when Colby's in fight camp and a fight is on the books, he goes radio silence on pretty much everybody. So I don't think we're going to get that soon, but I will try for you, Jed. I make a solemn promise from one friend to another. Is that enough for you? That's good enough for me. And then real quick, AK, just sitting there, just taking verbal abuse from everybody. Like, this is just, I mean, what is your response to what we saw?

in that two minutes of knockout round action, the ruling, and just some of the words that have been thrown in your direction. I really like Spencer's answer, frankly, for the final. But now, you know, no, now you can sit on it, Spencer, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know why, like, why, why come out to me like that? You know, I'll just say, I'm glad. I'm really glad it was the arrow. I am sorry.

I let you down. I should have been here in the final. Hopefully we'll get this opportunity again. and I will be back. But I do think you were a fair man. I think you made, as you said, you overcame your natural disdain for Jedmishu that all of us have.

And I think you made a fair, a fair just call. So your presence was very, very welcome, sir. And your presence in general, being back with us, I'm super excited, and then I'll be back in earnest, I guess, starting next week. So that's awesome. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Scotty Barnes. Scottie Barnes. Scotty Barnes. How did we get the best player in the draft? for the fourth day. Crazy. These guys have no idea what we're talking about. Oh, actually, Spencer, though.

Jet has no idea. Mike, I'm not sure. Basketball fan, Mike, or no? Yeah, I'm more of a, I'm a nostalgic basketball fan. Okay. I miss the 90s. I miss the 80, late 80s early, you know, 90s day. But here we are.

Ariel will give you the final word, my man. The day is vast approaching. What do you want to say to the folks as we get ready for the next chapter of the MMA hour and your return to MMA fighting on Monday? Oh, wow. What an honor. I just hope I don't screw it up You guys have done a great job

In my departure I'm sorry for leaving I'll never do it again And I can't wait to get the ball rolling I got to sit in that studio on Monday And man, you can go home again You really can And it just felt like it felt like home

I never thought I'd be able to do that again And I hope You know I hope people are excited about the show As much as I am And I will also say it's been nice to have a little break here, the longest break of my career. I just really wanted everyone to miss me.

And I think it worked. We did. All right. We're back, baby. We're back. August 16th, Monday, 1 p.m. Eastern. There you go. Get excited, everybody,

as we get ready to put a bow on this edition of Between the Links. We'll see it on Tuesday. Not next week. We're going to see you on Tuesday. Our new day, make sure you follow us, subscribe on the MMA Fighting Podcasting Network and never miss a show. A.K. Spencer Kite, Jedmishu, our judge, Ariel Hawani, I am Mike Keck.

We'll see you back once again next time between the links. Good night, everybody.