MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Dillashaw’s Successful Return, Next For PVZ-Ostovich, Pitbull vs. McKee, More

Episode Date: July 30, 2021

Host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and journalist E. Spencer Kyte to discuss the biggest stories in the sport. This week, the panel will discuss T.J. Dillashaw’s return to action with a split decision win over Cory Sandhagen at UFC Vegas 32 this past weekend and where the former champion goes from here, Rachael Ostovich’s successful bare knuckle fighting debut in her win over Paige VanZant at BKFC 19 this past weekend, what is better for Bellator in the long run; a victory for Patricio Pitbull or A.J. McKee this Saturday in the main event of Bellator 263, if the winner of the UFC Vegas 33 main event between Uriah Hall and Sean Strickland becomes a middleweight title contender, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow E. Spencer Kyte: @spencerkyte Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. And now your host, Mike. Iconic voice of Esther Lynn. Welcome's you back to a brand new edition of Between the Links. We are back after a week hiatus. Last week was insane. We were all over the place covering different events.

I was in Tampa. We had the Bellator Open Workouts and Media Days with AJ McKee and Patricia Pitbull. Casey was out there for that. So we just couldn't get a show together. It just wasn't possible. This week is crazy as well, but we couldn't skip out two weeks in a row. We just couldn't do it.

We're back with a lot to discuss. Let's get right into this thing. Let us introduce the combatants first. The illustrious return of the winningest player in BTL history, the man with the fiery hot takes, the man who still has us pondering, what would happen if Israel Adisanya fought Habibnabhna Magham-Aidov? Let us say hello once again to Mr. Jen Mishu.

How are you, my friend? Habib would beat that ass. That's what would happen. I think we can all agree. That's just, that's the outcome that would occur. And it'd be lovely. I'm great.

I've taken some time off. Got re-energized, you know, I was feeling a little lackluster with my BTL game. It's hard. It's hard to come in, day in, day out,

and care when you're this dominant, when you put up this many Ws on the board. But a couple of weeks to give my head right, I'm in the right space to come out here and put on a great performance. I'm here for the first. I'm here for the fans, Mike, for the fans. And that's what the show is all about.

It's for the people. And back on the program this week after defeating Alex Kaylee on his freaking birthday, no less, the icy, cold-blooded journalist himself. You see his work on his own site, UFC.com, and much more. Mr. E. Spencer Kite, back on the show. Hello, kind sir. How are you? Well, thanks.

I'm happy to be here taking out the winningest player in the history of this illustrious program. I look forward to going 2-0. And knocking Jed, giving Jed another loss, another ticking that loss column. Wow, look at that. We're already getting after it. Go ahead, Jed, say something. I mean, loss is just, they're just off my back, like water off a duck, you know? Like, look, I'm a home run hitter.

Who's got the most strikeouts in Major League history? It's Babe Ruth. I don't know if that fact is true or not, but we're going to pretend it is because I'm here to swing away, baby. All right. Now, real quick, I know I know you're asking, especially those who, to watch the A side yesterday. Where's the triple threat match? Sometimes in life, things come up.

You got to pivot. A.K. had something come up last minute. He couldn't make it. He apologizes for that. And he has promised he'll be ready to go next time. He wants the triple threat match to happen. And we will make that happen. But we got the two of you guys here.

Let's talk some MMA. Let's begin with this past Saturday. UFC Vegas 32, a very entertaining event. I caught up like a couple days later after my slumber from covering BKFC 19. but it was a fantastic main event. We had big finishes, a whole bunch of judging controversy to boot. But in the end, T.J. Dilleshaw returns after his USADA suspension,

he gets a split decision win over Corey Sanhagan. A lot of folks not happy with the decision here. So let me start with you, Spencer, Kite. It seems like there were much more things we can define as robberies on this card, much more egregious scorecards on Saturday. Was Corey Sanhagen robbed? Like, are we comfortable saying this was a robbery? on Saturday?

I'm certainly not comfortable saying it was a robbery. Someone with spicy hot takes like Jed might, but I'm not. It was a close fight. It was a typical close fight where we need to come away from it and understand close fights happen. I've watched it back a couple of times. I wrote a piece about the rewatch and sort of rounds four and five, which became the deciding rounds.

And even those two rounds in and of themselves are super tight. They're narrow frames. If you look at the punch stat numbers, even the numbers are close. And so to think this as a robbery is crazy, I disagreed with the decision, but it's not one of those instances where you can reasonably sit there

and say Corey Sanhagen got robbed. I love the way that he's handled it, coming out and saying, I have to take responsibility for this, not take my foot off the gas, keep getting after it, and not kind of coast a little bit. But, I mean, it was just a super close fight

and a terrific fight at that. Jed, I spoke with Dean Thomas on Tuesday for what the heck. He didn't call this a robbery. He said that he came away thinking Corey Sanhagen was the better fighter, but T.J. Dilleshaw just played the game better than Corey Sanhagen did. So with that being said,

and just your overall view of the fight itself, can we use the word robbery here? Was this a robbery on Saturday? What a dumb, friggin' sport, man. But, like, a guy who, Dean Thomas knows a lot about MMA, like a very knowledgeable person, both as a fighter, as a coach. And for him to just be like, yeah, one of these people is better than the other, but that's not how the game works. It's just like, it's super dumb that that's the sport we can have it. We're like, that's a world that can exist.

Ostensibly, the idea is to find out who the better fighter is. And we did, but that fighter is not the winner. What's going on, man? I've taken a journey on this. So I watched this Saturday night with a lot of friends and many beverages. And at the time, I believed that that was a robbery. Watching it in real time, it seemed extremely evident to me that Corey Santagan won at least three rounds, arguably four. More to the point, he just beat the bricks, just right on off T.J. Dillishaw for the balance of the fight.

I sort of assumed that everybody thought the same, but I have since come to find that some people think T.J. Delishaw won. And I rewatched it, and I can at least see the case. I don't think that they're right. I think by any metric that should matter, Corey Sanagan should have won that fight. But given the fact that we exist in a sport that's very dumb, rules and scoring are nebulous concepts at best,

as opposed to like set and stone properties. I can at least understand the other side of things. And so it's probably not a robbery just because that fight was pretty close. I still, though, come down ultimately on the side of anytime a bad decision is rendered, it's a robbery. Like, it doesn't have to be a close fight or not because we've talked about it a lot. Jake Paul has banging the drum, you know, all this stuff. Hey, did Corey Sandh didn't get a win bonus? He did not.

He should have gotten a win bonus because of most people. people's estimation you should have won that fight. And so that was taken from him by three people who were wrong. And so I think he can call it a robbery. I'm not here to tell you no. I get why people are hesitant not to. But look, it's 2021 man. Yeah, stay in your ground. Stand for something. Just say it from the chest, baby. That's a robbery. Corey Sanhagen, second best band way in the world. Behind my man, Rob Font. That's where it's at. I mean, be that as it may, no matter how you scored it. Dillishaw comes back. He wins, got a bit banged up with the knee, the cut near the eye.

But let me ask you this, Jed. For a guy that hadn't fought since January of 2019, the USADA suspension, et cetera, were you impressed with T.J. Dillishaw in his first fight in over two years? Dude, he looked unbelievable. If you were impressed by T.J. Dillishaw, you are a stone cold hater, man. That dude was off for two plus years. The game, like, outside of him just being off for that amount of time, a lot of that time he was rehabbing injuries and stuff like the ring rust factor take that away

because opinions vary like the game has developed super like super aggressively over that time that he's been gone and frankly somebody said this beforehand and it actually may have even been dillishaw i think sandhagen is like the worst style matchup form in the division and that's the duty came back to and whether you agree with the decision or not he technically got a win over for my money, like the hardest fight for him. I think he can absolutely be competitive with anybody else in the division and maybe actually get that title back. Like stone cold, super impressive.

The fact, I thought he was done after the second round, man. Like he was getting lit up. And he not only did he weather the storm and survived to the final bell, he on two judges, scorecards, won two of the rounds after that round where he got his ass beat. hell impressive performance from TJ Dillardshaw and you just can't hate the man unless you are a stone cold hater Spencer what's at you because

Uri Fabor did an interview with our friends at submission radio and yes Yariah You know Listen listen There's no love loss between those two guys And they're you know Those two are never going to be sharing a family dinner anytime soon

But Uriah did compliment his championship mentality Thought that was the biggest difference in the fight But one thing your eye did say was was TJ's the same guy. Like he's the same fighter. Very talented. Championship mentality, mindset, et cetera. But he hasn't really evolved since he was suspended.

What did you think of TJ's performance? Like, did you think like we saw an actual, like a better guy? I mean, I know he had some injuries in the knee and all that stuff. And that kind of hampered him a little bit. He still won and still fought his ass off. But was he better? Like, is this a better version than the guy we saw two and a half years ago? I don't know that it was a better version, but does it need to be?

I mean, the guy that left two years ago. was the best bantamweight in the world and proved that point emphatically in a pair of fights over, oh yeah, one of Fabers, one of Fabers guys, a guy that replaced TJ as one of Faber's guys. And so to sit there and say,

well, he hasn't evolved, sure, how many guys do you know that drastically changed their game when they're 33, 34, 35 years old? The fact that he came back and looked as good as he did, against, as Jed said, a world-class fighter in Corey Sanhagen, a guy that we all agreed is very much in this title conversation

and a difficult matchup for anybody in the top five and the champion, whoever you want to distinguish that as, says a lot about who T.J. Dillashaw is and where he fits in this division. I know there were a lot of people that expected him to get blown out, and we're looking forward to seeing him get blown out and hoping that this was the night that he goes out and Corey Sanhagen just trounces him

and T.J. looks washed and we can, and everybody can just kind of move on from him being a contender. He showed last Saturday that he's very much in the thick of this. And you have to think, after more than two years off, he does that. What's he going to look like now that he's not shaking out two years of time on the sideline? Now that he's, you know, gotten back in there and found the rhythm again, he's going to have to take some time here with the knee injury. But we have a chance, like he really does have a chance

to go through and fulfill the mission he's on of becoming a three-time world champion and joining Randy Couta as the only two people to accomplish that in the UFC. Now, Spencer, we don't know, like you said, the extent of the injury, said he's having surgery, plans to be back quick, but nobody knows exactly what quick means. I mean, quick could be less, it could be a year for any injury.

I mean, that's pretty damn quick. 135 pound division is just, it's so good, It's so loaded. And while Dillishaw is a nice addition to have in the mix, he's not the only guy in the mix. So when he's good to go, Spencer, is this title shot right away? Or does he need one more because of the controversy surrounding this fight? So I'm going to do you one better than saying it's so good.

It is the best division in the UFC. I know KCR judge agrees with that fact and has been stumping for that for a while. I agree with him. It is the best. And to me, It's title shot. Now, of course, timelines dictate everything. We have to see where everything is at.

But you don't go out and beat Corey Sanhagen and have to do something else. There's nothing else for him to prove right now. He's a two-time former champion. He just came back off two and a half years off and got a victory over the guy we all acknowledged as the number one contender. You get the next title shot. If things don't line up, there are certainly other matchups that are out there. There are some other fights that I would love to see that makes sense that you sort of figure out and work through, including potentially a fight with the way of next week.

Jose Aldo Pedro Munoz fight would be terrific. Jed's guy Rob Font is out there. We got to see what he's up to. But I think you beat Corey Sanhagen like that. You have that performance. It's a title shot. And if that happens within sort of the first three or four months of 2022, that makes sense to be. me. What do you think, Jed? Do you agree with that sentiment? I mean, we got Sterling versus Jan

that's targeted for October 30th. I don't believe Penn has gone to paper yet, but that's what everybody's talking about. Are you giving the shot to the man in your opinion that is the best abandon weight in the world? Rob Font right now? Like, does Rob Fon get the winner of that fight? Or do you maybe have Font and Dillashaw fight each other? Does Dillashat just get the winner of Jan versus Sterling? Because if Yon wins, you know they're going to try to run a third fight back. So how do you see this all sort of shaping out? How would you do it? I'm not going to lie.

I did not pay attention to one thing that Spencer said after he said that Bandonwhite was the best division because it's just categorically wrong. Like I didn't realize 155 pounds had fallen off the face of the earth and I had to do quick Googling to see if the UFC had let that division go again. But they haven't. And so it's still the best division. It's been the best division since it came back and it will be the best division. division in perpetuity. So I got a little distracted. I'm sorry.

As far as what we do next here, uh, it's, it seems pretty obvious to me. I don't, if, if Jan wins, I don't think they're doing a trilogy

fight with Sterling because Sterling's win. Again, I think Sterling's wins 100% legit. I have been Colin Aljo, the Banimway champ. I don't think he should, I think he should refuse to fight Peter Young actually, but you should make young.

Because look at Jan's resume. I'm about to go off on so many tangents. Like, Yon's resume, dog shit. Like, he's got the Aldo win is the only, like,

actual good Bannonweight win that he has. And if you take away that, because I love Aldo more than most people, well, let's be honest, he's probably not really, like, a top five guy.

It's, Jan's resume doesn't deserve a title fight. And if you look at him and say, he legitimately lost that fight in Sterling, which he did, he did a super, super stupid illegal thing and so he lost by merit of that then he doesn't deserve a title shot but they're going to run it back whatever if yon wins the uc's not going to run that trilogy back they're

going to let that simmer because of the circumstance to the first one and so then that's that's super clean and easy tj's going to get the winner of yon sterling it sucks that the best band of weight in the world rob faunt is going to have to sit on his ass for a little while but maybe he goes and fights Corey Sanhagen, puts the wood to Sanhagen because that fight would be fun as a hell. Like, I don't care that that is maybe not great from a contendorship standpoint. That's just going to be awesome. And it'll let Rob Fonk really stake his name in the sand like 100% this is me. Whereas, I mean, you could give him a title fight now, especially if TJ's rehab takes a little longer or what have you.

But coming off that win over a guy who can't ever win fights. and Cody Garbrandt, like just Rob Font probably needs something, a little more marquee, a little more, you know, headline event or like co-main to Al Joe Sterling, something like that. So however it shakes out, I think, I think TJ's getting the next title fight and he should. Dude never lost his belt. He might be the best band of way in the world not named Rob Fon. Well, we shall see what happens.

Corey, I mean, TJ looked tremendous. Corey Sandhagen is just so, so good, and he's only going to get better. It was a fun event on Saturday. There's another big one this past Friday night as well. That's where we're going next. But the point for round one goes to Mr. Spencer Kite. He is on the board. It is one to nothing.

Good stop, gentlemen. This is exactly... I don't have shit to say about this. Well, who knows? Maybe Spencer doesn't have anything to say about this either. But let us discuss BKFC. Let's discuss BKFC. Because if Spencer has nothing to say about it, this is going to be a great round.

I was there for the whole shebang on Fight Week in Tampa. Great time covering it. BKFC was amazing all week. The fight card on Friday was absolutely chaotic. So much happened. It was a memorable experience. No doubt about that. But it was capped off with the second meeting between Paige Van Zantz and Rachel Ostovich,

PVZ's second BKFC appearance. Ostovich is first. These two ladies threw down. Ostovich gets the win. She looked great in the fight. She looked super comfortable in that setting without a doubt, which surprised a lot of people, myself included. So Jed, we'll begin with you.

I mean, what stood out to you at all? Like, did you even watch clips anything? Did anything stand out to you in this fight? Oh, in this fight? No, what did stay now is I'm on our website right now. And we, whoever wrote this, I'm sorry to be blowing you up right now. but we said that Jared Warden

was given knockout of the night for a brutal finish of Zion Williamson and it's Zion Tomlinson Zion Williamson plays basketball for the Pelicans and that's why I was like, wait a second, what? As far as this fight, I saw, I did not watch it live,

I saw some highlights. I'm just honest, this had little to no interest for me. If it's your thing, cool. I'm not here to yuck anybody's yum and I know a lot of people are super interested in it. It's an event that I would have really liked to go to personally, because I'm sure I'm talking to you briefly,

I know that you had a great time and that it's like a pretty fun live scene. But the main event was like the least interesting fight to me. The other ones were at least something that I kind of cared about. Page Van Zand and Rachel Ostevitz just aren't, I mean, it's bare knuckle, so I guess it's maybe they are relevant. But they're not relevant to me in my view of fights for, because they're not, like, super good at it.

They're both really tough, and I don't think they get enough credit for that, like, because they are traditionally pretty, or however you would put it. But they're both, like, really tough women. And from the highlights I could see, it seemed like that was on display as is what to happen in a bare-knuckle fight. But neither of them are going to be, like, winning belts soon or really mattering in like a substantial way as far as being the best in their sport and their division. And so it just kind of little whatever to me.

And selling the whole thing was odd. Like selling this as a rematch and revenge is it was an MMA fight. This is a very different fight. I'm like 99% sure that Page tapped Ostovich anyway. So like you can't really get to get revenge for being submitted by having a bare-knuckle fight where submission. aren't a thing. Like, it's just a totally different thing. And so, yeah, again, not for me.

If it's for you, I'm not here to Yuck your Yolm, man. I hope you had a wonderful Friday night. I hope you tuned in to all of Mike Hex's wonderful coverage, but just not my bag. You know what, Jed? I mean, listen, I'm an honest guy. I'm full of integrity. I'm the guy I wrote Zion Williamson, and I'm an idiot.

I'm an idiot. It's awesome. I want to live there forever. Because I was reading over, I was like, is this can't really have to stay in the name? I can't believe I did that. No, it's Zion Tomlinson. I was like, man, that is going to be, that is awesome.

Oh, I'm so embarrassed. What an idiot. I mean, it is NBA. But I got a W over my cat. Oh, man. It's NBA draft week. Maybe I was distracted. I don't know.

Maybe it's just the clouds of my brain. What an idiot. Anyways. Spencer, what do you think? Did you watch it? Did you read about it? Did you read about Zion Williamson getting brutally knocked out? Like what happened?

I hope that it hyperlinks to actual like Zion information elsewhere on SB Nation. Like it just goes to his stats page and everything. That would be terrific. I didn't watch it live. I obviously saw highlights because, you know, I exist on Twitter like everybody else. I agree with Jed that you can't really call it a rematch because some of the rules are all the,

rules are different. The way that Paige Van Zant won the first time is not even on the table anymore. I was impressed though. I mean, I was one of those people that thought, well, Rachel Ostevic has never really been much of a boxer. Yeah, she throws hands a little bit, but her thing is, her best area in mixed martial arts has always been grappling. And to go out there and piece up, Paige Van Zandt. From everything I saw, everybody, everybody was convinced outside of Page in her corner that this was a clear victory for Rachel Ostovich. I always enjoy seeing people storm out of cages and rings and what have you when they lose and they're just flabbergasted.

It is one of my favorite things on any fight night to just predict seeing and then see the person that is just completely aghast that things didn't go their way on the scorecards when there's nothing that should lead them to believe that it's going to go their way. And so for me, this is, it's weird the pages 0 and 2 now just because such a big deal was made of it.

She's kind of this person that they wanted to build things around. But the beauty of this fight is that whoever won you could still go forward with. And so now they have Rachel Ostevich, I know she's only one in O. I know as Jed said, we're not talking about like

world championship caliber boxers here, but we're talking about BKFC. And I don't think we're looking for world championship caliber boxers. We're looking for people that can be on the main event or the main card of their next show or the show after that and draw in some eyeballs and Rachel Ossovich is that person. Whether we like it or not, whether it's for her skills in the ring or not, she is one of those people and she is going

to fight Britt and Hart or Beck Rawlings now that Beck is back in the mix. And people are going to tune in the same way they tuned into this. So you sort of alluded to it, Spencer. Page made big wave signing with BKFC, multi-fight, multi-million dollar deal. They emptied the checkbook for. She's now 0-and-2. She's lost two fights. But, I mean, she didn't get run over in either of these fights.

She didn't get stopped in any of these fights. She didn't get knocked out. She lost two at least somewhat competitive fights. And she did show improvements between the loss of Britton Hart and now the loss to Rachel Ostevich. And I feel like there's potential there because the first fight with Burton Hart, we saw Paige Van Zanthi,

the MMA fighter, trying to be a bear knuckle fighter. And then in this fight, we saw Paige fully go all in on boxing, but we just need, if she can find that middle ground between the two, I think she could find some success. So I'm curious, like, where she goes from here. Like, do you think, I mean, and this is nothing, I mean, BKFC, whatever, you know Paige. We've seen her throughout her UFC run. Do you think she sticks around and like gives this another go? Or do you feel like she moves on from the bare knuckle round. I mean, to me, where else does she go? Like, this is one of those you mentioned earlier, that it's NBA draft night, it's draft week. This kind of feels like the Ben Simmons thing of like,

your stock has never been kind of lower. Like, it was a big deal when you exited the UFC and we're a free agent and everybody wanted to see where you were going to go because it's a hot property. And now you're 0 and 2. And so I think she just has to stick around. Like, she has to get back out there in a couple of events and face somebody, whether it's a newcomer to the organization, whether it's Jenny Savage who fought Britain Hart last week and got knocked out. It's got to be something because BKFC is probably thinking, man, we need a little bit more return on this investment right now. I don't think there's going to be a lot of people lining up to hustle page into another combat sports arena when she's 0.2 in her last in these bare-knuckle

fights. She lost her last UFC event and she, as Jed said earlier, was never really a world class fighter in MMA. And so yes, she's a name. Yes, she's a draw. But to me, BKFC is the only place for her right now because the stock is so low that, you know, there aren't going to be a lot of people offering top dollar right now, I don't think. What do you think, Jed? I mean, she, obviously with her contract and her name and stuff like that, like, you know, I'm sure if she took an MMA fight, BKFC would let her go and take set MMA fight. So do you think her next fight will be in the BKFC ring or maybe we see her in Bellator?

What do you think happens next? I could not disagree more with Spencer. Like, just the exact opposite of everything he said. Like, one, you could lose a hundred fights in BKFC. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody, nobody has. any idea that she lost the fight. No one cares that she lost. Two, there's actually probably some

argument that losing in a bare-knuckle boxing fight is like better because it was always baffling to me that she went there anyway. She wasn't a good boxer. Like Spencer started by saying, you know, Rich Ossevich, not a great striker. It's not like she pieced up Floyd Mayweather.

Page sucked on the feet. She was tough. She just kind of hard-nosed and played like clinch games and could grapple a little bit. But really what Paige did was she was tough and kind of athletic. She was super bad at boxing. That's why it was shocking to me that she went to bare knuckle. I guess they opened the bag for it.

That's great. Get that bag, girl. Because you, if you don't like Paige Van Zane, you're kind of dumb. She seems awesome. Like she's just personality-wise seems like really cool and understands where she is and what she's doing. but you can't deny that she's playing her career perfectly. Like she's maximizing her value everywhere she goes.

And she's set it a bunch. Like she doesn't have to fight. She makes more money doing anything else other than fighting. She fights me she wants to. So maybe she comes back to bare knuckle because this is the kind of fighting that she's interested in competing in. Or maybe she just wants to get one win in the organization and move on. But like if she dropped and was like, hey, I want to go back to MMA, Scott Koker would call her up before she was done. done with the press release.

Like, hey, we don't have a strawweight division. We do have a flyweight division that, let's be clear, the top women are going to beat the crap out of you. But after all, like, front five, we don't have anybody that anybody cares one whit about, and you would be a tremendous addition to that. Like, you take her instantaneously. And if she wants to go there and the money's right and, you know, the, I think she can make a lot of money in Bellator because she, like I said, she's, she's been.

open about she can make a lot more money sponsorships doing other things we know that belator doesn't have the restrictive sponsorship deals that the ufc does like i think she can go to belator get paid a bundle by scott cocker just flat out and then make a ton in sponsorships and bring a lot of eyeballs bring a lot of relevance to them again she's not bringing it as a top tier fighter but every we very clearly this past weekend bkfc was the was what we all thought the draw for site views is going to be because of Paige Van Zenton Rachel Ossevich. And that's

over a former Bannonway champion versus literally the number one contender in Spencer's wrongly said best division in the sport. So like if she can at least make that draw competitive with that counter programming, she can sure shit make people care about like

Denise Keelholz or whatever for Bellator. Like, come on. She's getting signed wherever she wants to go. I think Bellator is a great fit. It's entirely whatever she wants to do next. What about Rachel Ostovich, Jed? I think she surprised a lot of people in there. We saw that, we saw that fighter come out in a big way.

Like, she cracked Paige right away. Like, in the opening second, she cracked her with the right hand and set the tone for the entire fight. And I feel like BKFC's got something with her because there's still some mystery to her. She's overcome a lot. And I think Rachel has something there, too. Like, I feel like that dog that she,

truly is came out in that ring. And I know, you know, compare the competition or whatever, be that as it made. But if you're David Feldman, are you taking the shot and doing what it takes to lock Rachel Ostovich down? Because at the end of the event at the press conference, she was asked, like, you're coming back? And she said, essentially, maybe, I don't know yet. Like, do you think we see her back in there once again? Do you think BKFC just kind of goes all in and tries to build her up as the next star?

I say, yeah. I think she is going to come back because I think BKFC, I think that's a really natural fit for her. I think she has less of a career in MMA than Paige does. I think that she is just not as good in MMA fighter. It's clearly a better bare-knuckle boxer. The threshold there seems a lot lower, if we're being honest. And they've got momentum with her now. I mean, Spencer mentioned you could do a fight with Beck Rollins, which would be really fun,

probably actually do pretty well from a numbers perspective. Britt and Hart also won on Friday. That's a pretty logical next fight as well. I think they've just got some options. And so for sure, they should probably try and run with this ball as long as they can carry it. Maybe the market for race Auschwitz is bigger than I think it is, but I don't think it's enormous. And so I think that they can get her to come back. They may have to spend a little more than maybe they would have to spend a little more than maybe they would have

thought, but I don't think that I'll have to break the bank. And I think that she is somebody that they can work with. What do you think, Spencer? You think we'll see her back? Do you think that win boosted her confidence enough where it's like, you know what, I'm home here. Like, I'm a bare-knuckle fighter now. Yeah, I think it has to, right? I mean, it's weird to me that they didn't get something more long-term right out of the gate just as a precautionary measure because now her price went up. Now her stock went up. She got this win that not a lot of people expected and she looked great doing it. And so you have to go out and bring her back, even if it's for one more fight, two more fights, whatever it may be. You can't have her win that and then just bounce when you've invested this

much time and energy and promotional material into Page Van Zand. KFC, great event, a lot of fun. Probably need to invest in, you know, you can invest in fighters all you want, but probably need to invest in more security to stop people from jumping the rails and attacking rappers in the ring and maybe not do the social influencer matches with boxing gloves on. Like that was kind of a weird thing that turned some people up. But BKFC was a big talking point over the weekend. What, Jed?

That is very weird to do. The name of the promotion is bare-knuckle FC and then have boxing gloves is pretty odd. Yeah, I think they kind of realized that right away. but I actually got more excited for those fights as they went on. And then as the week went on and then the gloves came out and I was like, I don't know how this is going to go over. But that was this past weekend. We're going to move ahead to this weekend's action.

The point for round two goes to, I got to give it to Jed for a couple of reasons. I thought he presented his arguments very well. And plus he called me out and made me look like an idiot and I got to take it on the chin. Sure did. And, you know, hopefully Zion Williamson is doing okay after Friday night. Hopefully Zion Williamson gets in the BKFC ring, because I'll tune in for that. I'll pay a lot of money to watch Zion Williamson and that. I can't believe that.

Zion Tomlinson, my apologies to Mr. Tomlinson. I hope he's doing okay. That was a scary scene on Friday night. But look, and I know we typically do this on the show, but we're not going to do it this week because there's no need to. We're not going to play the UFC versus Bellator comparison game this weekend due to them going head-to-head because, let's be honest, there is no competition here. There are certainly some interesting matchups on the UFC Vegas 33 card, but top to bottom from main event down, if I'm only watching one and I don't think I'm alone here,

it's Bellator and this one isn't even close in my eyes. The main event, of course, for the featherweight title, Patricio Pitbull versus A.J. McKee, Grand Prix finale, million bucks in the line. The storylines are there. It's just good stuff. The press conference is out of control towards the end. Spencer, we're going to begin with you.

I'm going to do it this way. In three words or less, how would you describe this fun? between Pitbull and McKee, and then you can explain why using, well, more than three words. Three words, best this summer. I mean, this is the fight that we all hoped for when this tournament was announced 37 years ago. It's the fight that we got. We're all happy to see it. It's the fight that it's the perfect fight for Bellator too.

And I think that's for me what makes it that next little bit even more compelling, because no matter who wins this, this is terrific for Bellator. If A.J. McKee wins, you've got a young champion, you do an immediate rematch, and if he wins both, then you're often running with this undefeated superstar. And if Pitbull wins, then we're really having to have the conversations about, is he the greatest featherweight in the world right now, and where does he fit sort of in those all-time ranks? And that's not something we do very often with Bellator and their champions.

And so to me, this is a fight that everybody has been looking forward to since it came together. It is absolutely the best fight of this weekend. It is the best fight to me on paper for the whole summer. And it is a fight that, I mean, if you like this sport, you are tuning into this, even if you are the most diehard UFC loyalists. Jed, what are your three words and why? Or less. I just spent the whole time Spencer was talking trying to think.

I'm going to say this, and I know it's immediately going to make me lose the round. Dope, but overrated. Ooh. Why? There's the spice. Yeah. Look, maybe this is me being better because this fight cost me my BTL championship or tag team titles. I don't remember which one it was.

I have so many championships on this show. But don't get me wrong. It's easily the best fight of the weekend. Like, it is not close. My issues here with the fight are, I actually think the in-cage product isn't going to be that cool. Everything else about this fight's great. The storylines are tremendous. I think we'll probably end up looking back on this as the high watermark for Bellator, you know, in this five-year stretch or whatever.

This is everything they do, like, or that they want to do. at its best. They have the greatest fighter in Bellator history taking on this super prospect, the guy who everybody thinks is the next dude. Like everything from a storyline, it fits perfectly. I've watched a lot of tape on both of these guys, you know, because I was getting excited about the fight.

And I think Pitbull is just going to wipe the floor with them. And I don't think that it's going to be like that fun to watch. and if I'm wrong, then I'm like way wrong because if basically this is a two outcome fight, like if Pitbull wins, it's great, right? It's, you know, it's a coronating moment

for this guy. We're not going to have the conversations is he the best featherweight in the world like Spencer said, because he's not, like he's not Alexander Volcanovsky or Max Hollowen who both beat the shit out of him. But he's third, you know, he's behind those two dudes. He's a really good featherweight

and that'll be great. But then it's a bit of a, there's a big letdown right after the immediate high of, ah, this whole awesome thing came together and Pitbull rightfully stands atop. And then it's okay, well, what the hell now? If AJ McKee wins, we do get to Pitbull. Rematch will happen guaranteed. And then that opens a lot of really interesting, fun doors. Like I said, I don't think it's going to happen.

I just, I don't think A.J. McKee has, has, I just don't think he can win. Like he could, but I think he's still a couple of years away from being his best, and he needs to be at his best to beat Pipple. Like, I think Pipple is the third best featherweight in the world behind two unbelievably good guys. And so I think we're all coming into this with a lot of expectation and the fight I don't think is going to live up to it. And last thing I'll say, I'd like a lot better if Beltor hadn't just shit the bed on this one, man, like, this should be the event you build. All roads should lead to Bellator 263, man. Like, this should be a card of cards stacked to the gills and just going at it.

And the coming of it's Madsburn, hell. And, like, I like Mads Burnell, but come on. That dude should maybe not even be on your main card. You should have some gas behind this. And instead, they are just making this a standalone fight. And that's just kind of trash. Like when you said at the beginning, we don't do the comparison show. If you take the top two fights off, these are identical, bad, regional, and May cards, like, they're not good.

So it's, you know, a lot of things have brought me down on it. I'm still pumped. Like, I'm still going to tune in Saturday. I hope I'm wrong, and that the fight delivers everything we want it to be. But I just think we're probably going to get a really clear winner. And it's the winner that would be not the least fun necessarily, but that creates. the the least fun outcomes from it if that makes sense. So you feel that the best thing for business coming out of this fight is A.J. McKee

winning. Oh, 100%. That's the best thing for business. If A.J. McKee wins, they get to do the immediate rematch. That's a big story right there. There's a lot of juice behind that. Then if Pippell wins that, there's a trilogy. We're set up.

If not, then A.J. McKee has won twice. now AJ McKee is 26, 27, whatever he is at that point. He's the guy. You start building around him and you you break the bank to bring in like legitimate challenges for him, however you can get him and figure out how to develop this kid because he's got all the makings of a star. If Pitbull wins, Pipples beat everyone in two divisions. Like there's nobody for him to fight except for just rehashing Ws has already gotten. So again, it's a crowning achievement.

It's a tremendous victory of pit bull wins. But if he wins, the conversation will almost immediately turn to. Okay, so can he just like Michael Chandler his way out and go fight in the UFC because we don't want to watch him fight Primus or whoever the hell else he's going to have to fight featherweight again? Like, I think it's unquestionably the worst outcome for promotion is pit bull winning. And unfortunately for Bellator, I think that's very, very likely to happen. Do you agree with that, Spencer?

Do you feel like, I'm not saying the promotion's rooting for A.J. McKee, but do you feel like the best thing for business is A.J. McKee beating Patricia Pitbull on Saturday? Yeah, absolutely. It creates the most outcomes. I absolutely love Jed's ability to just dismiss the MMA community's willingness to have conversations and discussions that we know aren't factually true and aren't realistic. but to have them passionately anyways. If Pitbull wins this, there are going to be myriad conversations about, is he the best featherweight in the world?

I agree that he's not and it's stupid and a waste of time, but they are going to happen. And I don't know that, I mean, I disagree that it's going to be one way traffic. I think A.J. McKee just might be that guy that, yeah, he hasn't reached his peak yet, but where he's at right now is really good. And if he goes out and wins this fight, it is absolutely the best thing because of all the things that we've both stated already.

You get the rematch, maybe a trilogy fight down the road. You get this 26, 27-year-old undefeated fighter to build around going forward, to grab that torch from the guy that has carried the brand for the last seven, eight years, if not longer. I agree that this should have been a bigger card. in terms of who Pitbull fights

if he does win this. He fights Mads Brunel if Mads Brunel wins. That's why Mads Brunel is in the co-main event. I agree that it's not necessarily the most glamorous main event, but that's why he's there. Case closed right there.

Unfortunately, if Emmanuel Sanchez beats him, we are getting yet another Bellator reducts, which is just, but that's just kind of what Bellator is, right? It's the way Strike Force was. It's what Scott Coker does. He thinks about the here and now, and the worry about later is a future Scott Coker problem.

And he'll address it down the road. So at least we might get Mads Burnell as a number one contender for Pitbull if each of them win on Saturday night. When you're hoping, when you are hoping for Mads-Burnell title challenge, do you not go Japanese next time pit bull. Like, God, Bellator is so close to, like they're so close to having them. I fully agree. can't quite get there. Like he's,

he, but that was strike force, too, right? Like that was strike force during strike force prime during its rise, whatever it was.

You had two or three fights at the top that you were like, this is awesome, but I'm not sure where it leads. And then two months down the road, you were like, we didn't lead anywhere. What did we get to?

Where are the, you had a bunch of squash matches with great prospects. They got to a certain point that they got steamrolled. And, then we were just kind of every couple of months, we figured out something new again. It's what's happening in Bellator.

It's worked out okay for them because they've gotten, at least in this tournament, right? It's worked out. They've gotten what they wanted. They've built some guys. AJ McKee is an absolutely homegrown product through and through every fight in his career in Belator. And maybe Scott Coker isn't wishing and hoping that he wins, but I'm sure some people in the organization are.

Oh, Scott Coker, Scott Cogger's Scott Coker probably wished he wins too. Yeah, Scott Coker probably wishes he wins, he hopes he wins too. Scott Coker is very clearly like, yeah. I can either get a Pipple-McKee rematch or I can get Pipple versus Mads-Bernel. Ooh, this is a difficult promotional choice for me.

Well, I have a feeling Pipple's going back up to 55 anyways. Who's going to fight there? They have like 3 55ers too. Belator needs like four more good fighters in every division because they're like they don't need the 700 or whatever like enormous roster the UFC has, but they need just like a few more to keep it from being super stale because like if Emmanuel Sanchez wins

and Pipple has to defend the featherweight belt at some point that please God no. I just don't need that fight again. Like do anything else. They just need a couple other good people in every division because it is kind of cool to know. Like if you if you sign a Beltor for five fights, you can comfortably say I'm going to fight every good person in that division. Because everybody does fight everybody and that's neat because that doesn't happen in the UFC. But it also gets a little repetitive.

We need they need just a little bit more spice to to make things fun or else we're going to have Pitbull, Madsbury. Nell at Bellator 273, and we're going to do 50 people in traffic that weekend. Well, listen, that's not, I forgot something like Casey just DM me about. Bellator already booked a number one contender fight 145 pounds between Adam Borich and JJ Wilson. So there you go. It's not going to be mad. That's at least, I mean, neither of those are super interesting for whoever wins this,

but they are different. So that's good. Yeah, listen, and I understand what they're trying to do with this card. this is a star making kind of a card. Like they're trying to build up people. Like I actually, I really liked the Emmanuel Sanchez-Badzbernell fight. I think that's going to be super fun. We get to see Usband-Namagabate.

Yeah, Ousband-Nam-Magamatoff is on this card. I mean, they're trying to build him up against Manny Murrow, who's a tough dude. He's the upset kid. Brent Primis is all sorts of pissed off. I spoke with him the other day. He's all sorts of mad he's fighting Islam Mobidoff, who is legit as hell. And then Goichi Amaiuchi versus Chris Gonzalez. is interesting. So, I mean, listen, we understand what they're trying to do here.

Those fights are good. Those fights are five fights too high on the card. That should be your bottom section of the fights. Here are the young, interesting prospects, all that stuff. And then you should just have Ryan Bader. He's booked against somebody, I think. I don't know. Just put some people who people give a shit about, even if they're old and decrepit. Like, just bolster this with names instead of the bottom of it being, uh, Georgia Carrey. Panian's fighting. Look at that. Joshua Jones.

I don't know that person by name. It's unfortunate. Joshua Jones is a very, very forgettable name. Jonathan, I can't pronounce that last name without sounding awful.

He's three and four. That guy just shouldn't be on the card at all. Let's just do a little better, Bellator, because you could. I want to care about them so much. You know this, Mike,

and they keep just not rewarding it. All right. Let's wrap with this, because this fight has been called between pronouns pal, between Patricia Pitbull and AJ McKee, the biggest fight in Bellator history. This is certainly the biggest fight Bellator can make right now. No if, Sands or buts about it.

But Spencer, I know we're diving deep into the Bellator archives here. Is this, in your opinion, from what you've seen covering the sport for all these years, do you feel that this is the biggest fight in Bellator history coming up on Saturday? No, I don't think it is just because it is very, much the best they can do right now and it's it's terrific right now but i don't think it has the same pull that some of the other big fights did like look it it didn't turn out great but phaedore fighting in new york city was a bigger fight it was a bigger deal this is a huge fight to us within the community

that like our hardcore crazy love everything about and have tracked every step of a j mcke's development and will be the people having that ridiculous argument if Pitbull wins, that he's the best featherweight in the world. But on the whole, I would say there's fights like some of Fador's fights. I think the Eddie Alvarez, Michael Chandler series, were bigger fights.

But for right now and for going forward maybe, this has the potential to be a true kind of landmark milestone moment for the promotion. What do you think, Jed? where does this one rank in the all-time biggest fights in Bellator history? I mean, I think it's, like I said, I think this is probably going to be considered a high watermark for the organization for the past couple of years, certainly. For me, it's not the top one. For me, hold on, I'm looking it up. Beltor 221.

Pitbull Chandler, that's their best. That's it. Like that is that fight essentially was for the title of greatest fighter in promotional history. Michael Chandler and Patricio Pitbull are Bellator MMA. Like that's, they just are. That fight had a lot of also similar, really good, really interesting storylines coming into it. The CO, the CO was clean, but in real time it felt a little wonky so that maybe like took some of the sting off it. but I think Bellator 221.

I mean, also the co-main event was dope. And that was a way, way cooler co-main event than the one we're getting this weekend. A.J. McKee was on that card. He fought Packer and former champion. Like, I think they built that card a lot better. I think that card meant a lot more historically and kind of for the future of this board. I mean, basically, if you look at the ripple effect from that, that is the event that allowed Michael Chandler, leave and come to the UFC basically once he lost the belt and i think it was kind of written that

michael chaneler was was moving on uh and now pit bull is where pit bull is so uh for me i think beltor two 21 that's that's the hot watermark for them as as an organization fair enough i'm looking forward to to this one for sure i i think i like the main card more than both of you guys do but uh the main event's great press conference got heated you can check out that clip on m may Fighting's YouTube page on our site. Good stuff. As we move to the final question of regulation, the point for round three goes to, we're flip-flopping here. Spencer Kite, up two to one, heading into the final question of regulation. Good round.

I knew when I said it was overrated, I wouldn't get in points. But you had a compelling argument. So it went from like a 10-6 to a 10-9. So there you go. So listen, we talked a lot about Bellator here, but the UFC is also going to have a card on Saturday. It's kind of overshadowed by Bellator 263. Uriah Hall versus Sean Strickland, the main event at 185 pounds, certainly an interesting fight.

I think it's good matchmaking for where these guys are at in their career. But this main event is going up against Pitbull v. McKee. Tough ask for sure. So Jed, let's start with you. Do we have big stakes in this fight between Hall and Strickland? Are you ready to say that whoever wins this fight, we're going to be on this show next week talking about, you know what? This guy's a title contender now.

We have like two ounce steaks. This isn't even a six ounce filet. There are no stakes here. This is ground beef is what this is. This will get the job done, but it's not something you are pumped about. This fight is a perfectly fine fight. It is shocking to me that this is headlining an event. I know it's not the worst main event we've ever had,

but it's probably the worst this year. unless I'm just, unless I just blanked one entirely from my memory. Like, Uriah Hall is, I don't have ways to talk about him that aren't super mean. So that's just what this is going to be is me just being super mean to Uriah Hall. Great. He's on the best win streak of his career.

It is so much smoke and mirrors. Like, okay, he knocked out Bevin Lewis. Great. Ben Loose is not very good at fighting. He's like, fine, whatever. He won a split decision that he maybe shouldn't have won against Shoeface, who is not in the UFC anymore. He beat Anderson Silva in the year of our Lord 2020.

Like, that's just not a thing. Like, he also took a long time to beat Anderson Silva in 2020. If it was a three-round fight, he would not have finished 47 going on 60s. year old Anderson Silva and then the Chris Weidman tragedy like this is on paper if this was six years ago that resume is dope as hell right now it just looks better than it is he's not a real he is he is he is the definition of wolf tickets

like and Sean Strickland I got a lot of love my heart for Sean Strickland like Sean Strickland is a he's a fun interesting prospect he's also a fun actually might be a bit of a stretch. He's an interesting prospect in that he is clearly very good of fighting. He has a composed game that works well in the current MMA meta game, but his move to middleweight was good for him objectively, but it's not like he's blown the doors off great competition. Like he won workman-like decisions over Christopher Jocko,

who's a solidish dude, and Brendan Allen, who's a solidish dude. Like this is clearly, you just sort of have to say it's a step up in competition for him. But at the same time, you're out of hall as a sort of dude who could lose to anybody. Like he could just mentally implode and may well happen on Saturday. Like, no, the short answer here is no, we're not talking about a title challenger here. If Sean Strickland wins, we're talking, okay, Sean Strickland putting together a good run, let's see him against an actual, like, good middleweight. And if you're a hall wins, it's like, hey, we still need to see you beat somebody who's good.

Not an old person who needs to retire or a guy who has been a welterweight until last year. Like, we need you to beat Kelvin Gastilum, who I get, I don't even think Kelvin Gastam's good, mind you. But at least that's a better win than he has his current resume. So, yeah, this fight doesn't matter outside of to the participants in it. matters a lot to them. But I'm really glad we have Bellator this weekend, even if the Bellator card's not great, because that's something I can look forward to, whereas this card just, it just is. What do you think, Spencer?

What's at stake here? Is there anything at stake here for these guys? I think first and foremost that if I ever get into legal trouble that Jed can help me with, I am calling him fast as I can't. My one phone call is going to Jed Mishu. His ability, his ability to argue his points while ignoring other information and just kind of leaving stuff aside to make his case is amazing. He's got the, he's got the charm, he's got the drawl, he just plays it out nicely. I leave their stakes.

Look, dude, you're saying that Uriah Hall, yes, Year of Our Lord 2020 fought and beat Anderson Silva. Do you know who didn't finish Anderson Silva in five rounds? The damn middleweight champ Israel out of Sonia, who wouldn't even engage with him for the most part, just kind of stood there with him. That was three rounds, champ. I don't care. He didn't do any of the things that Uriah Hall did.

Uriah Hall didn't finish Anderson in three rounds either. He still went out to me and looked much better than Izzy did against Anderson Silva. As for Sean Strickland, you say the move up to middleweight was a good move for him. It's a move back to middleweight. This is a point for me that is like one of those things that drives me insane. Sean Strickland started his career 15 and 0 at middleweight. His first two fights in the UFC were at middleweight, where he beat, you know, tough guys in Luke Barnett and Bubba McDaniel.

Then he goes down to welterweight. He wins a couple. He loses three, but all to really good competition. And he's come back up and won three straight since coming back. If he was just an 18 and 0 middleweight, regardless of the fact that he has, just a fundamental kind of technical meat and potatoes fighter, we'd be really excited about this guy,

added to the fact that he's kind of a loose cannon when you put a microphone in front of him. But instead he's got that middleweight misadventure, and we kind of lose sight of the fact that at middleweight, this dude's legit. And if he goes out and beats Uriah Hall, that moves him into that range that Jed is saying, you've got to beat one of these guys.

And you shouted out, Kelvin Gaston, as the guy that you got to go out and beat as if Kelvin Gasolum is somebody in the year of our Lord 2021 that holds great sway in this division. And so to me, this is, it may be, it's certainly not going to determine the next middleweight title contender, but it puts one of these guys in range of fighting somebody in the top five. Like this division is kind of a mess right now because Israel Adasania has been so good and because we've had sort of the top of the division cannibalize itself with Robert Whitaker fighting everybody

and beating everybody and ending up where we're ending up later this year with those two running it back. But whoever wins this is in the mix and they're very much close. I think it can be an entertaining fight. I know that Jed thinks that Yerai Hall is going to potentially implode this weekend and think that he's mentally weak. I've talked to him throughout this run.

He sounds like a dude and talking to his coaches as well. well, all the stuff that used to bother him, he's put behind him. All the mentally weak stuff that he admits to. I had fear. I wasn't confident. I didn't believe the stuff that others believed in me. He believes now. And I think he can go out and have a great performance.

And if Sean Strickland beats this version of Uriah Hall, I'm very much interested in seeing what he does next. I think the stakes are, I mean, I know we talked about, you know, what's next for Luke Rockhold. But I feel like the winner of this, he could fight Luke Rockold next. I feel like that's what's at stake here. But be that as in May. Spencer, as on the show, as you saw a couple weeks ago, we like to dig deep.

We like to find diamonds in the rough on these cards. Low key bangor time. UFC Vegas 33. What fight are you circling on your card that isn't getting a lot of attention that just got you all sorts of fired up? In the absolutely fabulous Bantam Wake Division, early in the night. So long before Jed wants to start paying attention to Bell's, Palator. Pay attention to Ronnie Lawrence versus Trevin Jones.

Ronnie Lawrence looked good coming off the contender series. He looked even better in his debut against Vince Casero. He's down at Sanford, M.A. Good looking fighter does everything pretty well. He's got a nice well-rounded game. And Trevin Jones is just this dude that is knocking people out. Yes, the first win got overturned because they called him on like six days notice and he had weed in his system.

And so his win over Timor Valiev has. been turned into a no contest. But then he followed that up by going out and knocking out Mario Batista, who had had a couple of good wins. He did that 40 seconds into the second round. And looks like one of those guys that he's either going to go out there and knock you into next week or he's going to battle you tough right to the bitter end. And against the kid in Ronnie Lawrence that I think has some interesting potential in a

terrific division, it's one I'm paying attention to at the start of the night. Jed, I'm trying to look on this car. I don't see any weight classes that begin with a two here. So this is something you're going to have to dig a little deeper on, my friend. Which one sticks out to you? Although I thought Spencer was a very good choice. I mean, you're right. No twos.

There's the only 185, which is another go-to division, is the main event. And that's not even a high-profile banger. That's just a fight that we're all going to watch. for me I think I want to be clear I totally knew that Spencer

was going to take it it's the minute he told that lie about Bamboy being better than Lightway I was like I'm really into

this Trevin Jones fight then so I guess I'll steer away from that one because I agree that fight's actually going to be

really fun but in lieu of that I have two answers and the first one I'm just going to throw a real quick shout out to Chris Goatsmacker

Hoffa Garcia because both of those guys are fairly fun fighters. It's in the actual best division in the sport, which is 155. They're just so we're super, super clear. 1-5-5, much better than every other division by like a million miles. Harville Garcia is 12 and 1. I think he's got a little something there, and Chris Gutsmacker is sort of a hard-nosed dude,

been around the block a little bit. and that's probably going to be a good scrap. But if we're just going for funsies, just for the fun of it, how do you not pick Bam Bam? Brian Barberina is fighting. Jason Whit. Jason Whit, not very good at fighting,

but what he's good at, he's good at winning or losing in really fun ways. He's that three-year-ups, he's two losses for, like, sub-60 seconds. He got bolted and he got bolted, and then in his one win, arm triangle. Brian Barberina is a guy. who is really fun, no matter who he's fighting, he's probably going to find a way to lose to Jason Witt at first

and then just overcome it to then bolt Jason Witt in like the second and third round. One of the toughest dudes alive, Brian Barberina is always must-watched television, so that's easily my choice. And it's a welterweight, which is maybe not as good as Bantamweight, but it's in the conversation for second best division at least.

I like both of your answers. Just think of some of the fights we lost on this card. We lost Doraima v. Chris Dachas. I believe it's now been shuffled to a third different event. Ronnie Lawrence was... I bet. Sam Alvey, Roman, Kupilov. Ronnie Lawrence is supposed to fight John Cassinada.

That would have been a crazy-ass-ass-fight. Ask her off versus Alex Perez was supposed to be on this card. Now Alex Perez is fighting Matt Schnell next month. Dooh-Choi was supposed to fight on this card against Danny Shep. Chavez, but Chavez remains on the card. He's going to fight Kaikamaka, which is still a really good fight. So we lost some good ones. We lost some good ones.

But listen, lots of MMA to consume on Saturday, get your two computer screens or television screens ready. Or you can just hit the old last button, go back and forth. But we'll have you covered right here on MMA fighting across the board as we award this final regulation point. And it's a big one, folks. And it goes to an absolutely shocking development. We're going to the knocker around. Jedmishu ties it up. This has never happened.

Unprecedented. I mean, no matter what happened, I just want to, I want more. And I feel like this question is just so perfect because of what I've seen earlier today. But one question will decide at all. And I will say, this was not the question I was going to go with. Who am I going to make any of this now? Due to some social media discussions earlier today, we're going to go ahead and change. things up. So each of these individuals will have one minute to respond to said question.

And then we're going to turn it over to a very busy man, E. Casey Leiden, who is at the Bellator press conference, flew all the way back just to produce this program. He will render the final decision. So Spencer, you, sir, have the champions prerogative. Do you want to go first, or do you want to pass on over to Jen Michoud? Go ahead, counselor. All right. This is going to be fun. This is going to be fun. So, Jedmishu, we begin with you. Earlier today, we confirmed a report from ESPN. Amanda Nunes tests positive for COVID-19,

the Banimate title fight scheduled for next weekend's UFC 265 card between Nunes and Giuliana Pena will not be happening. It's being postponed until a later date that we do not know yet. So the main event for the interim heavyweight title is still on top between Derek Lewis and Cyril gone. Not sure which one of these prelim fights is getting the bump up, but maybe we can decide that here. But the question is, Jed, how big of a hit did this card take losing Nunes versus Pena?

And what do you grade it on paper right now without that fight? One minute on the clock, your time starts now. That's a really complicated question. From a straight number standpoint, it probably didn't take a hit at all. Man, Nunes just isn't a draw. I've written about this. We've talked about this a lot. when she's put in good positions, i.e. against Ronda Rousey or on UFC 200, she can draw

a million favorite viewbyes. In her other fights that aren't those situations, she's barely breaking six digits. So from a number standpoint, we really didn't lose much. And there's a reason that Lewis Ganes for an interim title. And it's not because they really want to give these guys a belt. It's because they want them to headline the event. They think that's going to do the number. So from that standpoint, not losing a lot. From a fan, standpoint, I mean, anytime you lose the greatest female fighter of all time, card takes a hit. Like, she's going to beat the doors off of Juliana Pena.

Like, that's not going to be competitive in the slightest. But I'll still watch that woman go to work any day of the week. So that sucks. Fortunately, the rest of his card's really good. I'll give it a B plus and a new co-made event. Jose Aldo, baby, all day. All right, a B plus. All right, same question.

Spencer, you were sort of the catalyst behind this. question. How big of a hit did UFC 265 take today? What is the grade on paper now? One minute on the clock. Your time starts now. It certainly took a hit because as Jed said, when you lose the goat, that's never a good thing. I'm in the same boat. You want to let me watch the greatest female fighter in the history of this sport compete? I don't care who she's fighting. I'm tuning in. She is that good. She is that dominant. I want to see it because when she's gone, we're going to think, oh, man, I wish Amanda was still here, reckon people. In terms of the overall card, it's still terrific. And yeah, I was the catalyst for this because a bunch of people were like, oh, this fight card isn't that

good to begin with. And I think, what are you crazy? Like, look at the rest of this card. Take away everybody's objection to an interim title being on the line. Derek Lewis versus Cyril Gahn is still a tremendous heavyweight fight. We have Josealdo against Pedro Munoz. Absolute banger. We have Mike Kiesa against the violent violence merchant Vincente Lucque. Awesome. Sonia Dong, everybody was in on this kid until he loses to Kyler Phillips. Now we have to pretend like he's nothing. This is still a great card.

It is one of the better main cards of the year to me. It is an A card. All right. We got B plus for Jed Mishu. A solid A for Spencer Kite. Now we turn it over to an A plus in my opinion. E. Casey Leiden, the best judge in the business, who is going to render this decision, it's going to make sure that I don't have to feel the pressure of this decision.

And don't forget, Casey will be on site in Englewood for the weigh-ins, all that fun stuff. So tune in. It'll be on site for Bellator 263. We're going to do like a dual preview show tomorrow as well. I don't know when that's happening, but it's happening tomorrow. So we have a lot to discuss. We're just getting started here. So Casey, we turn it over to you, my friend.

who wins? Is it the returning Jedmishu or the reigning the reigning winner? I guess he'll call him the interim champion. We know Phoenix Carnarvalley still holds the title, but we're going to have to do something about this. She might just be like the grand champion at the end of the day, but we have to like move this division forward. So who wins? Attention, you can cut it with a knife. Okay, I need help. I need help here. What are the people in the comments saying? Yes. Oh, man. What are the peep saying? No one, no one even mentioned Menel Cape. That would have been

an instant win. Jeez. Made my decision. You're a winner. Because it is the greatest division men's bantamweight, Eastmanter kite. Oh, there you go.

It was objectively false. Aside from the fact that you clearly just didn't rule on this last round, it's objectively false. Spencer does it again. He is, he is, He is 2 and 0.

He knows how to play the game, Jed. He knows how to play the game. Remember what we started with about Dean Thomas and T.J. Dillishaw played the game correctly? If you paid attention to Twitter, I said I was coming here to manipulate judges. I understand what I'm doing here. Two and O of coming back next week to defend this title again. The shower more praise on Casey and his mustache. I'll probably shout out the panda dough.

Joe, a shout out, Fezik. I know how to do this. I'm coming. I'm not going anywhere. Put a two up in that win column. Happy to be here. Alex Cayley, get your, get your, get your, get your, get your things right and get back here. You said you wanted more. Come and get more.

There we go. Now we got a triple threat match. We got, we got two guys from the MA fighting staff looking to get it back for the website. And Jedmishu clearly, you know, you, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you got a triple-trap match. took some time off, you brought your A game, you hit the refresh button and you came back on the wrong end of a decision. How do you feel about what just transpired here? Yeah. I mean, look, you have a lot of losses up there. The truth is, I've lost to one person, it's Casey. I've only ever lost to Casey. So, you know, I'm 19 and 1, that one just happens a lot.

So I'm okay with that. You know, I like Spencer's answer. He recognizes that I'm the poor of San Pagan in this situation. And I think we're good. Everybody's in the same, same happy little boat. We all understand the lay of the land here. You know, it is what it is to take Max Holloway's line. It is what it is.

So we got Spencer at 2 and O. Jed believes he's 31 and 1 right now. So, I mean, that's 19 and 1. Just 19 and 1. he's 191 and 11 with 191 and 12 with 12 no contests no just just the one only one person has defeated me so that's just the one person has defeated me so remember we used to say 18 down to like 12 how many different people I put the boots to we find that as well used to say Joseph benavitas was unbeaten and then was it beaten everybody except Dominic cruz and dominant Cruz and

Dominic Cruz was the one guy Casey's the one guy judge I mean, Chris Johnson also beat him. I know, but initially. But Jay, Casey's the one guy Jed can't beat, and I've figured out how to play to Casey. It's really unfortunate that the one guy can't beat, I have to play every week.

Like, that's very tough. If I got some new blood in there, I guess two, because Sean made a guest to be able to intentionally sabotage me one week. But I don't count that as real, because that was obviously staged chicanery. So yeah, you know

Like I said I'm just here for the fans I'm out here swinging away I was clearly right about everything I said And at some point The champ will come back Like like Brock Lesnar

Just once a year Just showing up at a big important event And defending the belt And then off into the ether again So in the meantime I'll just be here putting in the work There you go Yeah

Juice out of your mind You said The gills. To the gills. To the gills. Speaking of Brock Lesder, next week, we'll once again turn chicken salad

and chicken shit and a chicken salad right here on between the links. That's what we do here. We're out of here. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. If you're watching and listening

after the fact, we appreciate it. We'll see you back here once again next week between the links for Jed, for Spencer, for Casey on the production on the ones and twos. I am Mike Heck. The iconic voice of Estherlyn takes you home. Good night, everybody.

Love you guys. This has been between the links. I'm Esther Lynn. Hey, Ken, I'm trying to read the outro. Hey, respect my voice. I'm Esther Lynn. Respect me. Respect me. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.