MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Dustin Poirier vs. Nate Diaz, Gegard Mousasi, UFC Vegas 34, More

Episode Date: August 19, 2021

Host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and Damon Martin as they battle it out for a week’s worth of bragging rights. This week, the panel discusses Dustin Poirier’s appearance on The MMA Hour and what the chances could be that he will face Nate Diaz next over a title shot against Charles Oliveira, Gegard Mousasi’s successful middleweight title defense against John Salter at Bellator 264 and where he ranks at 185 pounds worldwide, Ray Cooper III’s dominant win over Rory MacDonald at PFL 7, this Saturday’s UFC Vegas 34 card in the promotion’s return from a brief hiatus—scheduled to be headlined by Jared Cannonier vs. Kelvin Gastelum—the under the radar fight of the weekend, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Damon Martin: @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MMAFighting.com. And yes, I know I told you last week, we were moving the show to Tuesdays, and we will be moving to Tuesdays, but that is not. What is happening this week? The world is a crazy place. The MMA space is a crazy place. MMA fighting is a crazy place. And as you all know, this show, the BTL virtual arena is a crazy place. As we are entering this program, we got some topics, no doubt about that.

But compared to most weeks, this is not the craziest time we have had in our sport in terms of news. But let's get into this thing. Let us introduce the combatants first. He makes his long away to return to the show. And I believe outside of James Lynch, He is the only person to actually appear in every iteration that this show has had over the last five years. From MMAFighting.com, one of the best in the game, David Martin. How are you, sir?

I'm good. I'm good. I'm glad to have that honor bestowed upon me. I feel like I go back a long ways. Yes. Before this was actually like a game show type thing, there was more of a debate show, and you were part of that as well. But we welcome back to the show. A man who got back in the wind column last week, he just needed to hit the refresh button, came out on, fire last week. The spicy hot takes were real. Mr. No Gray area himself from MMA Fighting.com. Jed Bishu, how you doing, my friend? Mike, I'm going to put that on my business card. Mr. No Gray Area is for cowards and any, not anything. It's not a coward. I'm a lot of things,

but a coward ain't one of them. That is very true. Well, let us get right into this thing. And let's begin. We talked about MMA fighting being a crazy place. We had the return of the MMA hour. during this week, Monday and Wednesday, catch that every Monday and Wednesday with the returning Ari Hawani. And the very first guest on this new chapter of the show was the number one lightweight in the world, according to the only rankings that matter, the MMA fighting global rankings. Dustin Porre, who discussed his win over Carter McGregor, talked about if there might be a fourth fight down the road. And the most interesting thing, what he thinks could be next. And there seems to be two options, Damon Martin. One is the obvious answer.

answer. The title fight with Charles Olivera seems like the only option coming out of the second Connor fight of 2021. But somehow, Damon, even though he's lost two in a row in three out of four, Nathan Diaz has found his way into this conversation. So let me ask you this. If you had to put a number grade on it from one to 10, what are the chances the UFC actually goes through with Porier versus Diaz over Porre versus Olivera? You know, this is a tough one because I I think a lot of it really does come down to Dustin's preference, but I would say the chances that they book Nate Diaz against Dustin Porre is around an eight or a nine. And the reason I say that is because this is, it's quote, you know, Eminem.

He's got one shot. And what I mean by that is if Dustin Porre goes out there and beats Charles Olivaire, the Nate Diaz fight goes away. They're not going to let him fight for a title. I think we all know that part of it's not going to happen. But in Dustin Porre's case, he can cash in any other massive payday before fighting for the title while everyone is still already calling him the best lightweight in the sport. Absolutely no disrespect to Charles Olivares. He's an incredible fighter, put together an incredible

resume and what he's done lately has been fantastic. But I don't think anyone is fooling themselves in believing that Dustin Pore isn't the best lightweight in the world right now in active competition. So Dustin doesn't need a belt right now to prove that. Everyone's already calling him the best lightweight in the world. So if he wants to cash in on another massive payday, Connor's gone for at least a year before he could bludgeon him again. and score another, you know, seven-figure payday. Nate Diaz is the only other guy out there he can logistically face who would give him that kind of money, that kind of payday,

in a relatively short amount of time. We're already into August, so December's not that far away. He fights Nate Diaz in December, and then he moves on to Charles Oliver. It's basically this or nothing, because if he beats Charles, and I like Charles, but I think Dustin Porre wins that fight, then Nate Diaz goes away forever, and then he's fighting Islammachiev, then he's fighting Justin Gagev again, then he's fighting there maybe Michael Chandler down the road,

Nate Diaz goes away forever once Dustin is champion. Jed, what do you think? What are the chances the UFC calls a UFC-esque audible and goes Pori Diaz next over the title fight? Four out of ten. I'm giving a little more credit to it than maybe I should. And really, that's just because I think Porier really really likes money because we all really like money, man. and the best place to get money is fighting Nate Diaz, because you're going to get a win,

and you're going to get a big old payday. I think one aspect of this that hasn't really been considered or talked about for me is Poirye's willingness to do this is, I feel like the Habib loss still plays a factor for Poirier, because in general, he's said, you know, I'd like to be the champion at some point, but it's just not a big, big impetus for him. And to me, the only reason that kind of,

makes sense is he recognizes that he is the best guy in the sport and all he's done is lose to Habib. But even if he's the best lightweight and active competition, I think a part of him still recognizes that he's not really the best lightweight in the world because Habib isn't dead. He just is choosing not to compete. So I think that makes it a little more likely because of the whole history for it. But I still think he's going to end up fighting Charles Olivera because I disagree with Damon. I think that the Nate Diaz fight absolutely still exists

if Poirier gets the belt. Nate Diaz isn't dropping to 155 to compete for the lightweight title. That's just never going to happen again. Nate Diaz is more likely to go fight at 185 than he is to fight at 155. And so I think Poirier can handle his business, get the belt that he

so richly deserves later this year, and then he can pick and choose his spots. Like, sure, in this world, if he's the champion, and he's supposed to face the Benial Daryushes and the Islam Makachev's of the world. But we all know that's not true. Like, you don't have to fight guys that you're supposed to as the champion. Has anyone been paying attention to the sport for the last five years?

Like, he can just have the belt and they can do an interim title fight between Binaldair, Yush, and Islamakchev. It will sell four pay-per-views. It will all be people from AKA that buy that pay-per-view. They can win an interim title. It'll be great. And Poiré can go fight Nate Diaz. You know, I know that they're teammates and training partners,

but I firmly believe that Poiré and Jorge Mospital would set aside a teammate hood to get that bag. And you know they'd be getting that bag at those two dudes fought. Like, I think he can just pick up the belt to pick it up. And he can still do whatever the hell he wants because we haven't gotten to see it yet because he has only fought Connor this year. But I think we're in for the Dustin Poirier. Connor McGregor bump. I think beating Connor twice, doing it

in phatic fashion the first time and really beating his ass the second time, even with all the weirdness that surrounded it, I think Dustin Poirier could very well be like a real paper view draw on his own right now, and the next fight will determine it, you know, we'll see.

But if he's that, if he's what I think he is in that, he gets to call all the shots. It doesn't matter whether he has a belt or not. So if you're Dustin Porrier, Jed, If the UFC called you and said, yo, Diamond, what up? You pick title fighter, Nate. What are you picking if you're Dustin?

Are you just going title and then you just feel that Nate is just going to be there whenever you need them, essentially? Yeah, that's me. I mean, honestly, there's no wrong way to eat this Reese's, Mike. Like, he can go, because he's going to beat Nate. Like, it's not like Nate's going to beat him. So if he goes and fights and beats Nate, then he can still fight for the title after that. Or if he goes and wins the title, he can fight and beat Nate after. Like it's his option.

The only reason I would choose to take the title now is, one, it checks the box because like Damon, I agree. I think he is 100% going to be Charles Olivera. And so it checks that box. He no longer is an interim champion. Next, he is, you know, the former actual UFC Unisputed Lightway Champion. And if he passes, things get more interesting if Oliver has to defend. because let's say Gagee is fighting Chandler, theoretically, New York.

I know all that's in the air. Let's say he fights that. Justin Gates is going to beat that ass because Michael Chandler sucks at fighting. I've said it many times. And Justin Gachie will then beat that ass of Charles Olivaire, too. I am of the opinion that Justin Gagee is the best lightweight in the world right now. Dustin Poyer deserves that title because of the win over him and what he's accomplished. But if you put those two dudes in a cage tomorrow, I'm picking Gachie.

to beat him. And if he, if Poirier waits, he might not come back to Oliver. He might come back to a much more difficult style matchup because if he waits and then he gets injured, now, now he beats Nate, okay, now he's not fighting until the end of next year for the belt. By that time, shit, maybe it's his on Makachep, who's the champion. Maybe it's just in Gaichi. Like, those are hard, hard fights, and I don't know that the appeal is the same. Like, I think you pick up the belt right now, and Nate Diaz is always going to be there. Daman, do you agree with Jed that Porre on his own could be a box office draw because of the Connor rub? Like, has he gotten that because there's certain guys that have allure?

We'll dive into Nate and his allure in a matter of moments. But Dustin hasn't done a lot of media since he beat Connor McGregor. I know he's matured and he's kind of let go of what he feels is the less important part of the game. He just wants to go in there and train and fight dudes. He doesn't want to do media. I just want to do interviews. But is that maybe a mistake here coming off that win over Connor? Like should he have kind of gotten out there a little bit more and built his name even more so?

Or was winning that fight enough? I think the mystique of what Dustin has done this year is enough for him. He doesn't really need to say much at this point. He destroyed Connor back in January and he seemed like he was on his way to completely destroying a dismantling Connor a second time with the broken leg. And Connor coming unhinged since the fight going. after everybody, you know, from D.C. to Bisphing to, you know, pretty much anybody and everybody he's not going to fight. I think Dustin could just sit back and relish his victory, knowing he's gotten one over on Connor McGregor. Conner is fighting this war for Dustin Porte, because Porre got the

win over him twice, and now McGregor going, Lunatic has pretty much, you know, proved the point that the Porriet beat him, and beat him to the point where we're not sure what kind of Connor is going to come back, you know, from the broken leg. So I think Porier is at a perfect position right now, where he gets to call the shots. He's in a weird position where he's not the champion, but he really does get to call the shots right now, which is why I think he should call the option and say fight Nate Diaz in December,

because, again, Charles Olivaire, his other option right now is probably going to be fighting Benil Darius, okay? Much like Jed said, that's probably going to do four pay-per-views. But again, what are we missing out on? He either beats Charles Oliver for the title or he beats Benel Darius for the title. I like Dustin, though, to beat both those guys. Gachie is, I think Gachie will end up

fighting Chandler. I don't even know if the UFC's going to go to New York in November. I think that's going to turn political pretty soon. So I think that fight's still going to happen. If Gaichi wins, then of course, yes, that does set up Gaichi to be in a number one contender's position. Maybe he ends up fighting Makachev if he gets past Dosangios, depending on how things play out. So yeah, I don't think Dustin needs the title right now. And I do, I don't think they're going to have him win the title and then just go to 170 pounds for a catchweight fight against Nate Diaz. this point, especially if Diaz is now, you know, sitting up a couple of losses. I don't think

they want their lightweight champion to even risk the possibility that Nate Diaz somehow pulls off the upset, you know, somehow goes out there and has that Leon Edwards performance where he, you know, comes searching back in the fifth round and somehow gets a finish. They don't want that look for their lightweight champion unless there's a belt on the line. If he goes up and loses to Kamar Usman, it's not bad. He loses the Nate Diaz. It's terrible. So, yeah, I think you should fight Nate Diaz. Get the paycheck. Because the reality is, If he fights Charles Oliverr, it's a good pay-per-view. Dustin Porte is a big name now.

It might do 700,000 buys. That's not bad. He fights Nate Diaz and does $1.1 million, and that's a whole other zero on his paycheck at the end of the day for pay-per-view points. I'm a big believer in this is prize fighting. These are prize fighters. Go out and get the biggest prize. And when Connor McGregor sidelined,

Nate Diaz is the biggest prize he can get right now. And I will disagree with Jeddard, one thing. He's never going to fight George Mazvedal. I'm actually, here, let me do a little name drop. I hate doing this. I'll do a little name drop. And I was at American top team a couple of years ago. And I saw them sparring. It was a fun sparring session, man. They beat the hell out of each other. But Mike Brown is their, you know, their head coach, they are very close. I don't think they'll ever fight each other. Even for a big bag. I just, I think Mazadol sees enough other, enough other options out there with, you know, maybe Leon Edwards, or maybe he goes after Nate Diaz in the future, something like that.

They don't need to fight each other. So Nate Diaz is kind of the last man standing that can get Dustin a huge paycheck unless he goes back to the, to the Connor for a fourth time. Damon, how... Here's my thing, though. Like, Damon, David just made him a point for me. He just said that Dustin Poirye fighting for the belt,

he could maybe pull 700,000 buys. It's an enormous number. Remember the last time Nate Diaz fought? He folded on a card with Israel Adisania. UFC 263. That had Israel Adis on you, had the rematch between Figurano and Moreno, and that thing sold, I think it estimated

600,000 buys. So, Damon, just said that Poria can pull more or by himself, then Nate Diaz contributed to UFC 263. Even if you give it a bump because it would be Poyer fighting Nate Diaz, so the confluence of power there kicks it up a notch, he's going to do substantially similar, and he just gets the gold. He wants that gold.

He needs to get that gold because he deserves that gold, and he can pull money with anybody. The world is his oyster. He doesn't need to take a detour right now to Nate Diaz land. But the right fight will draw better eyeballs. And Nate Diaz fighting Leon Edwards was a fight no one really cared about. Let's just be honest about that. It was a third fight on a pay-per-view, and no one really cared about that fight that much.

Nobody did. And it was supposed to be the fight to put Leon Edwards over, and then he goes out and has a fifth round where he nearly gets finished. And now all anyone can talk about is Nate Diaz. Nate Diaz headlining against George Mazvedal, that did great pay-per-view numbers. Nate Diaz had a fiery fight against Dust of Porier. Those two guys do not like each other.

and the hype will be built around that to close out the year of December. You're telling me that wouldn't be a huge show. Absolutely be a huge show. It would be far bigger than anything he would do against Charles Olivera or B'Neill Darius. So just, again, reality is Dustin can score a much bigger payday fighting Nate Diaz, and the risk is minimal. I mean, again, we both admit he'll beat Nate Diaz, chances are. But the unknown factor, the Nate Dias factor is still out there.

People still believe in him that he can pull off the upset. that. And like I said, I don't think once he gets the title that Nate Diaz fight is really going to be there for him anymore, especially if Nate isn't willing to cut to 155. So yeah, I think Dustin, go for the bank, man, go for the paycheck, make your bank, make your money, and then go get that title. Damon, how does Nate Diaz do this? I mean, people love the guy, and for 23 minutes and change, he got the work from Leon Edwards in June. It wasn't like the most aesthetically pleasing fight of all time. Leon didn't go out there and just land 400 strikes on him. But this is one way traffic through 23 minutes. But, you know, everyone remembers the final 90 seconds or so of that fight. And before that, he was getting the wood put to him, as Jedmishu says so often, by Jorge Mazadal. Fight is stopped.

Very few people thought that fight was going to get any better for Nate. But his value just continues to skyrocket whether he wins or loses. And he still mentioned that these fights with these guys. that the vast majority of people feel are so far ahead of him. Like, if you asked 100 people who wins between Nate Diaz and Dustin Porier, 98 are going to say Dustin Porier probably wins that fight. But there he is in this conversation. How does this happen, Damon?

How does he keep doing this? There are a few names in this industry where losses just don't seem to matter until it gets ugly. And the reason I say that is, is because the three names I'll mention, always seem to get the fights they want, the big fights they want, and get, you know, name dropped at certain times. And that's Nate Diaz, Nick Diaz, and for a long time, it was BJ Penn. Now, sadly, we know BJ, you know, the end of his career did not go well. And I think we're past the point where anyone would call him out and feel good about it.

But there was a time when even BJ coming off a bad loss or a couple of bad losses, people would still say, oh, it's BJ Penn. He's a legend. Of course you give him that fight. When Nick Diaz was coming back in, fought in five freaking years going on six years now, and people were like, oh, yeah, give him Leon Edwards, give him Gilbert Burns. I'm like, he hasn't fought in six years. His last fight was against Anderson Silva Middleway. And people are like, give him the number one contender.

That's just the appeal these guys have. And Nate Diaz, listen, Nate Diaz, you can say what you like about him, but he somehow kind of falls in these situations where he has kind of a built-in. I hate to use the word excuse, but it's an excuse where people say, well, Nate Diaz is losing fights. Well, he lost to Connor in the majority position. Nate would say he won that fight. He lost to Jorge Mazadol due to cuts.

He'd say, well, cuts stop me. I was coming back in that fourth round. Would he have? Probably not, but that doesn't matter. It was stopped due to cuts. Look at Leon Edwards. Everyone said, well, if there was a sixth round, he would have beaten him. He had him on the ropes.

Nate Diaz just has an ability, like a weird ability, to make the conversation about him and keep it close enough. Like I said, coming out of the road with Leon Edwards, what were we talking about with Leon Edwards? We were talking about Nate Diaz's fifth round. No one has said word one about about Leon Edwards in rounds one through four. All we were talking about, anybody was talking about, was Nate Diaz coming back in the fifth round.

And so that's how he kind of can injects himself. And he's just got that built-in fan appeal where people want to see him fight. Like I said, I mean, Brock Lesnar was another one. Like the guy, you know, got demolished by Alistairoverim. I mean, he's coming back and people are saying, oh, man, he could jump right in and fight for the title. And I'm like, good Lord. Like, there's just certain guys that have that appeal, no matter what their record is, no matter how they've looked in recent fights, people just want to see them in those big fights.

And I think that's what Nate Diaz has. And Nate Diaz, weirdly, when you look at his last few fights, he has these built-in situations where he can say, well, hold on now. I didn't really lose to Connor. Hold on now. I didn't really lose to Jorge Madsidol. And that keeps him in the conversation. How does he do this, Jedmishu? How does Nate Diaz continue to do this?

I won't while I got distracted when Damon was talking about BJ and a bad end to his career, which I don't recall. BJ retired after he knocked out Matt Hughes the second time. And he's gone down as the greatest lightweight of all time. So I don't know what Damon's even talking about. As far as Nick or Nate Diaz goes, because Nick Diaz isn't fighting. Again, I'll stop out on the hill. He's not fighting and it's just not going to happen. As far as Nate goes, he does it.

One, he is charmed. He lives a charmed life in that way. Two, he has the appropriate, like he has the it factor, and that's the most important thing. But he also, he's just a tough bastard, man. Like, so even when he loses, he is just so tough and so built for this that he can hang his hat on something and say, yeah, you know, kind of won the rematch, but it was a judge decision that's garbage. Or Mosidol was just putting the size nines to me, but it was a cut stoppage. so wasn't really i didn't really lose that fight or leon edwards you know i i put him on his ass like that's he gets to do those things because he is really really really really tough and

that is the underlying thing that's important like you can't be nade dyes and and everything he is if you can't fight and sure nade dyes isn't the best fighter he's not even the top 10 fighter for being honest but that dude is is born for this he can absolutely fight and that people gravitate towards that to that and to i mean honestly you can say anything you want about the diaz is they are the most authentic people in the sport like just they and that that matters like a lot of other fighters who are authentic to a point but the diaz is they they are themselves unimpeachably and so people gravitate to them even when being themselves is absolute lunacy and saying stuff like porhe mosterol didn't beat me or whatever like that's categorically insane but it's not they're not

saying it the way Connor says, I'm going to kill your family or whatever horseshit he was spouting off at the end of this last one. I'm like, Connor doesn't believe those things. He's saying him because he's playing a bit. Nate believes the joy or Imostradine didn't beat him. He believes that in his very soul. And so people can buy that. Like if you, if you tell a lie with enough confidence, you can sell that lie.

And the Diases have lied so confidently that they themselves believe their own horseshit. And so people love them. And I love them. They're wonderful. They are amusing characters. And we are better for having them in this sport. So, yeah, that's how they do it. Let me just throw this out there to Jed's point, though.

When you talk about the lie, let me just throw out a little George Costanza wisdom for you here from Seinfeld. Remember, Jed, it's not a lie if you believe it. Yeah. Well played. Well played. We will see what happens with Dustin Porre's next move. I certainly get the Diaz option. There's a part of me, even though I think.

Porre would be favored in a big way. I kind of want to see what would happen with Porre and Olivera. That's the one I want to see as a fan, but we'll see what. I want to see it. I just want to see what happened. I feel like, you know, is Olivera that underappreciated right now? We'll see. If he beats Dustin Porre, that conversation goes away. But we're going to move ahead.

Good round. We got more to go, and I am excited for it. But the first round in the first point goes to Jed Michoud. He is on the board. Great stuff. Great round. I hate this part of the job. Also, you didn't even talk about Chuckie Olives, and now he's trying to be like this magnanimous.

Well, if Dustin wants to fight Nate, that, I totally understand. Screw that, Oliver. You need to be on your soapbox and just calling for the man's head right now. Be interesting. Fighters, be interesting. Yeah. Let's not forget, let's not forget old Charlie Olives was also magnanimous towards Connor after everything that happened. So, this is, that's just, it's weird.

Like, you would think he would be more outspoken. but yeah, that's just not who he is. He certainly isn't. That's annoying. What? You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it.

I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah, way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bel Air Direct and use the money to fix your car. Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified. Conditions apply. When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A-game.

You bring your AI game. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money, and agents, so you can transform tomorrow. Work day. Moving business forever forward. But let us head to Bellator. Let's head to their middleweight champion, Gagar Bussasi, who defended his title successfully this past Friday. He put away John Salter, a very tough out at 185 pounds with that incredible wrestling game that he brings the table. But Gagar did exactly what he told me he was going to do, and he is still the champion after the win this past Friday. So Jed Bishu, I will begin with you. Where would you rank right now,

Gaygar Musassi at 185. Can you make the arguments that Gagar Musassi is the best middleweight in the world right now? Not if you're a rational human being. I mean, you can always make arguments. I can, you know me, like, I make some bad arguments. Like, I can absolutely just yell with the best of all.

But it's not realistic by any definition of that word. Like, to paraphrase Daniel Cormier, after he beat Anthony Grumbo Johnson for the second time and Jimmy Manuel was outside the cage calling for a title fight. And Cormney looks at him and goes, I like Corey Anderson, but you just beat Corey Anderson, sit down. That's what this is.

I like John Salter. He's a solid enough middleweight. But you beat John Salter. You're not the best middle weight in the world. Like that's just how that works. Like John Salter is, like I say, he's a tough dude. he's got a lot of wins, but he doesn't have a lot of wins he'd call good. Like, who is his best win?

Legitimately, who is the best win on John Salter's resume? Chidi and Jokwani? Costello von Stenis. Like, it's just, yeah, there's, yeah, okay, Constellifant Zita. That's a good win. That's just not, like, there's just not a lot going on there. Like he's a, like I said, he's a good fighter in a lot of respects or whatever. and I'm sure if he fought better competition,

he could still put together some results. But the two best fighters he faced, he lost two fairly handily in Gagard Musassi and Hafei Levato Jr. And that's just sort of the lay of the land for Bellator in general and certainly for their middleweight division. I think Gaggar Musassi is one of,

if not the most talented middleweights in the world. And I think he is arguably the most interesting style matchup for Israel Dissinia. but I don't think he'd beat him. I could be wrong. I don't think he beat him, though. And I think currently, because you started by asking where I rank him, I think because I am on the MMA fighting rankings panel,

and I think I currently have Musassi ranked fifth. So, you know, behind essentially the top guys in the UFC. And I stand by that. I would favor Odysseigneur over him. Robert Whitaker, same thing. you know, Paulo Costa, yeah, and I think I have Vitori over him. Maybe it's the other way around. But, like, those are, no, because I still have Romero.

That's why, because Romero is actually the best middle weight in the world. But, yeah, like, I think he's Marvin Vittory. He's just better at being Marvin Vittory than Marvin Votry is, right? Like, honestly, if you watch that fight, Gagard against Salter, Gaygard did a lot of not effective stuff until he was very effective. and I think he's on the downside, all these other things. So if you don't make the argument sure, he is the most accomplished middleweight probably that's still active, given all of he's done his career.

But I think he gets beat by several of the dudes at the top at the UFC, and there's no shame in that. He's been fighting for 50 years. What do you think, Damon? Where is Gayguard in that best middleweight in the world conversation right now? Well, I think what's hurting Gayguard is something Jed brought up, which is lack of competition in Bellator. I think if Hafeel Lavato Jr., sadly, his health issues knocked him out,

I think if they could have done a rematch, you know, the first fight was very close. Obviously, Levato got the win. I think if he had come back and Gagard had avenged his loss and maybe finished him, that would have given him a little bit more shine just because that was an undefeated guy and a guy who had some hype around him because of who Lovato was in the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world as well, him basically being forced into retirement and Gagard kind of falling back into the title.

with a kind of a barren wasteland in middleweight in Bellator. I mean, listen, I have, you know, I have nothing against John Salter. He's a solid middleweight, but I think he's a middle of the pack middleweight. He's not a top tier elite middleweight. And, you know, Austin Vanderford's up next. I like Austin's 11 and O, good fighter. You know, but, you know, his most wins are at Welterweight and who are his biggest wins against? So what is, what is Gayard going to gain by beating Austin Vanderford?

Now, with that being said, I would personally rank Gaygard Musassi. at number three in the world behind Robert Whitaker and Israel Adisanya. And for a couple of reasons. One, obviously, I think both of those fighters would beat Gagard Musassi at this point. Also, in terms of accomplishments, they've done far more in recent years than he has while he's kind of toiling away in Belator. And listen, good for him. He's making a boatload of money.

And he's happy there. Good for him. I don't think rankings really matter when it comes to your paycheck. As long as you're getting paid, good for you. That being said, I look at below that, you look at Paul. Costa, when you look at his record, it's not exactly the most impressive resume in the world either. When you really start digging down, you look at that, Yel Romero fights, the one he has on there. Outside of that, it's not like he's got this long list of dominant wins.

He beats the best middle way in the world. That's very impressive. Even though it was a garbage win, he technically defeated the best middle way in the world. And then Marvin Vittori, I think Marvin's a super tough guy, but again, you know, you look at his resume. He beat Kevin Holland. great. Is Kevin Holland an elite middleweight? No. Marvin, solid middleweight. But if Marvin fought Gaygar tomorrow, I think that's very much a toss-up,

and I would favor Musassi to win that fight, just because, again, Marvin's game planning would come into question just like he did against Adasania. So I think Musassi's number three, but I don't think he beats the top two guys to UFC, and I don't think anyone rationally would argue with me about that. His accomplishments have put him in that position, and I think he's He beats a lot of the good guys in the UFC still. Sadly, though, we're just never going to see that.

He's going to retire in Belalore. He's going to fight Austin Vanderford. And then maybe he becomes a two-division champion. If he fights the light heavyweight champion, depending on who ends up coming out of that Grand Prix, maybe that happens. I can see Gagard pulling that off. I don't think beating Ryan Bader or potentially even a Rumble Johnson fight.

It's crazy as that sounds. I don't think beating Rumble Johnson is out of the realm of possibilities for Gagard Musassi. This is a man who beat Mark Hunt in the open, wait Super Hulk Grand Prix once upon a time. So yeah, he could do that. But I think, I think number three is as high as Musasi's going to get, as long as Whitaker and Adasania are duking it out for the title in the UFC. There's the thing about Musassi, Mike, right?

Like, sure. Everyone views him with rose-colored glasses. That's my thing about Musassi, because he is so talented and he has had some really high points in his career that, like, yes, on any given day, he could, theoretically go beat Israel Dissan. Like that is a, that is a realistic possibility. That's not just total fabrication. He could also lose to Uriah Hall, you know.

Like he, he was not far removed from edging out a wind over washed Liotto Machita. Like that's just, he, he has a wide range. He has a very high ceiling and his floor is very low as well. and it just everyone likes to view because he has been around so long and he is a generally beloved figure you like to view the top parts and you don't really think about the fact that like yeah he's also his best wins recently have been over welterweights like he beat douglas lema and rory macdonald like those are his good wins lately it's just he's just he's really difficult to quantify well i think i I think you get to that argument, too, when you look at, like I said, that's what I said with the UFC's guys. Like you look at, like, you get, you know, Jerry Cannon Neer, solid guy. You know, you look at Paulo Costa.

Again, obviously, the Romero win is the one, you know, kind of Sterling on his record, but you look below that, you're like, ew, like, I don't know if I'd be calling out Costa's record beyond that Romero win. Like, you know, you look at his record, it's not great. I mean, yes, he does that win over your eye haul, but you look below that. It's not like he had this long, you know, 10-fight win streak with all knockouts in the UFC.

So when you really start digging into resume, it's not like the UFC guys below the top two have a lot to like, man, I'm really right there. And I think Musasi can at least argue to be in that top three. Again, you're not going to make an argument that he's going to, that he's above Whitaker or Adasanya. It's just ridiculous to even mention that. Austin Vanderford looks to be next for Musassi. I know Gayguard, for a fact, wants that fight ASAP, not sure if that's possible or not. he has been a little bit frazzled and frustrated with his lack of activity, but we'll see what happens, man. He wants to get in there.

And he told me he was guaranteed if he is still a middleweight champion to fight the winner of the light heavyweight Grand Prix. So we'll see what happens there. Legitimately, Belator's middleweight division is probably worse than the WEC's old middleweight division. Like, which like four people listening to this probably even remember the WC's middleweight division. but don't you don't you dare disparage their name of paulo philo i was just gonna say that like said paula pha freaking chale sunning brian stanne the greatest mixed martial arts commentator of all time uh who's the dude uh uh dug marshal god michi know kill dead or knock dead whatever the hell like that middleweight division austin van derford is like unquestionably getting a title shot

who's he beaten he's several not interesting decision wins over like the Vinicist to Jesus. Like, come on. Just shudder the middleweight, man. Let that one go. If your division is not as good as old WEC's middleweight division, you need to move on. Hey, don't disparage the great name of Venetius de Jesus. Come on now. He's a New England staple, my friend. CES champ, all that stuff. But be that as a May.

The other big story to come out of Friday this past Friday was over in the PFL. Main event was a fight that a lot of people had hoped would happen when Rory McDonald signed with the promotion, takes on Ray Cooper the third, and this was as one-way traffic as it gets from Ray Cooper. He dominates Roy McDonald for pretty much the entirety of the fight. And there's a lot of

talk, Damon, about the decline of Roy McDonald. He's not the same guy, and maybe there's some truth to that. Maybe he has had a big decline. But maybe it's that Ray Cooper is just not getting the love he deserves. Maybe he's like Triple H, Damon. He's just that damn good, but nobody's giving

him that shine. What Like, if you're the pendulum, where does it swing? More on the Ray Cooper is way better than people give him credit for side, or Royne McDonald is just a shell of himself. Well, I'm trying to live in the, there's no gray area here, because I don't want to get in that conversation. But if I'm leaning one way or the other, I lean more towards Ray Cooper is underrated.

I think he is a very solid welterweight competitor. He's got huge knockout power, and he's got very underrated wrestling. You know, he told me before the fight, Rory McDonald will not out-restle me, and Rory 100% was going to try to out wrestle him in that fight, and it didn't work out too well for Rory McDonald. That being said, something that Jed said about Gagard Musassi is absolutely 100% true about Rory McDonald as well.

The highest of highs for Rory McDonald, when he's had his absolute best, when he's out there leg kicking, you know, when he's out there having that first performance against Douglas Lima, when he's out there having, you know, some of his best performances today, when he just goes out there and dismantles, you know, certain guys, you're thinking, man,

Roy McDonald is the best well's way in the sport. He really could be that guy. He goes out there and, again, Curtis Melinda's not setting the bar very high, but he goes out there and dismantles Curtis Melinda inside of a round. You're like, wow, Rory's back. And then he goes out and he has a win over Gleason T-Bow. It wasn't a loss. That was one of the most garbage decisions ever,

but it also wasn't the most exciting fight in the world. It wasn't like Rory went out there and put it on him. He basically just counterstruck him the entire fight and landed more punches, landed better punches than won the fight, even though that's a garbage loss on his record. But then he comes out there and he just has no plan B. I mean, he literally has no plan B against Ray Cooper. He gets taken down and that's where he stays for 15 straight minutes. So I think the ceiling on Rory has been very high and the basement is extremely low with him.

Like when he showed up or when he failed to show up against Gagard Massasi, like he might as well have just been a punching bag in that fight. He just didn't show up. And so that's a problem. That being said, I would like to put some respect on Ray Cooper's name because the guy is a horse. He goes out there and he knocks people out. He's got great wrestling, huge power. I mean, remember what he did to Jake Shields when everyone thought Jake Shields was still something and he was going to come in there and actually do something in that first season of the NFL

and Ray knocked him out twice inside of six months. So Ray's legit. I think Ray's legit. I hate the fact that his win is somehow going to be diminished just because everyone's going to say Roy's lost the step. Maybe Roy's lost a little bit of a step. Maybe beating him isn't what it once was, but I still think Ray Cooper is, I still think the pendulum swings more towards Ray Cooper deserves a little bit more respect than what he's getting for going out there and just thoroughly dominating Roy McDonald for 15 straight minutes. Where do you sit on this, Mr. No Gray area? Are you more on the side of Ray Cooper the Third being really, really good and just not getting

enough credit for being really, really good? Or Rory McDonald just being not very good anymore? Look, I'm not going to lie to Mike, because I don't lie to people, and certainly not to my adoring fans. I didn't watch this because I have a lot of it. have things to do. I'm not going to watch the PFL. I value my time. And so, yeah, I didn't see Ray Cooper absolutely demolish Roy McDonald because I would not spend my free time so frivolously. But obviously, there's no gray area. And in the world where gray area doesn't exist,

Roy McDonald is washed. He'd been washed for a hot minute. Ray Cooper may be good. I've never seen the man fight so I can't say whether he's good or not it's I guess it's possible though it seems unlikely but Roy McDonald has not been good for a very long time he be Curtis Melinda which sure that is that's a thing he did it good for him he I again didn't watch it because I have things to do but I heard that he should have beaten Gleason T-Bow but he lost to him and that's not great. And before that, the last time I watched him fight, he lost to Douglas Lima, who is a really good fighter. And so there's really no shame in losing to Douglas Lima. But even the run before that, man, like when we were talking about Rory maybe being washed when

he left the UFC like seven years ago, you put together some wins. He won the welterweight championship over in Bellator and even competed for the middleweight one. That's not really. He didn't do that because, man, he's just so great. We got to give him a middleweight title shot. We just saw. We just talked about how bad the middleweight division is. They gave him a shot against Gayguard because, like, I don't know. There's not anything else to do for middleweight.

But, like, he beat Paul Daly, which, sure, and he beat Douglas Lima, which is a good win. But he arguably shouldn't have won that fight. Like, that fight was a lot closer than people will remember it. Roy did a lot of taking him down and not nearly as effective. And then when they rematch that, that didn't happen. I think he's just been washed for a hot minute. And he's still like can fight so he doesn't just go out and get rolled over. But yeah, he's just, he's not what his name is certainly anymore.

And nobody should expect that. So yeah, I'm siding firmly on the, Roy's washed, Kim. And here's where I'll argue against that with Roy a little bit. A little bit, because Rory had those kind of weird, like, performances in the UFC, too. Like, I was at his fight when he fought Tyron Woodley, when Tyron Woodley was literally standing against the cage for 15 minutes, not throwing punches. Just standing there. You just stand, literally just leaning against the cage waiting.

That's not something Tyron Woodley does. He's never done that. And McDonald, I mean, McDonald won the fight. It was a lot of cited decision, but he had so many opportunities to tee off on Tyron Woodley just standing against the cage, and he never took it. it was so utterly frustrating that he could have easily, you should, he should easily put that fight away and won that fight in dominant, you know, knockout fashion. And he didn't do it. It's just like, what are you doing, man? Like, pull the trigger. So while I agree, he's not the Roy

McDonald that went in there and had a, you know, arguably one of the best fights of all time against Robbie Lawler, I don't think he's done. But I don't, I don't think he's, I don't think he's, I don't think he's top tier anymore, but I don't think there's anything wrong saying he's maybe on the edge of the top 15 and I still think getting a win over him matters. Well, that was this past weekend in the world of MMA. There's a lot more I'm made this weekend as well

and that's where we're heading next. The point for round two goes to the man who actually watched the PFL. Damon has dive things up. I knew that bite. I appreciate the honesty though, Jed. It was a great second round. So

gentlemen, let's talk about the UFC. They are back after a very brief hiatus. UFC Vegas 34 goes down on Saturday. We're going to talk about the main event in a minute, but Damon, we're going to begin with you. Did the UFC in this card they put together, was a weak enough for the absence to grow, for your, the absence to make your heart grow fonder? Did you miss them at all? I didn't really miss them at all. And I kind of wish they had pushed this card back another week and just combined it with another card. because, listen, I hate, listen, I hate when people say, don't say something bad about a card before it actually happens.

Yes, you could say something bad about a car before it actually happens because stakes matter. Yes, I think there's some fights on this card coming up this weekend. It can be fun. There's some fun fights, sure. But there's zero stakes. None. Literally there's no stakes in this card. None.

Zero. Nothing happens depending on winning. Jared Canaaner wins. Okay, great. He's still not a title contender right now, and he's still probably not going to be near that with two more. wins. Calvin Gasolam wins, great. He just lost whatever it was like three in a row before that.

There's zero stakes in this card. I mean, the co-main event is Mark Madsen, Mark O-Madson, let me throw in the O, who is a solid silver medalist, Greco-Roman wrestler, good prospect. He's funny Clay-Guida. I like Clay. Clay's a legend. I love Clay. Clay's not Clay-Guita of 10 years

ago. This is the weirdest co-main event. Weirdest matchmaking I can remember in recent memory, why they're giving Clay Guida to Mark O'Madson I saw the match where he goes like, what's, why is this happening? It is, it's, even more fun about that matchup? Get, guess the odds on it, Damon. Guess what the, guess the odds.

Is it like minus 700 for Marco Madsen? No, he's astonishingly only like a minus 170. Put all of the money on that fight because I cannot figure out how he is not a minus 500 favorite. It is blowing my mind. All right, I'm going to drop off here real quick. I need to go sell some stuff to place a bet. I don't feel, right? Yeah.

But, like, that's the weird. Again, and when you say these kind of things, there's going to be people who are going to say, well, don't say that kind of stuff before you see the card. Yes, you can, it's just like this last pay-per-view. I like Cyril Ghan and Derek Lewis. It was a fine fight, but the stakes were ridiculous. There shouldn't have been an interim title on the line.

It was a horrible, horrible idea to do that. And the rest of the card was, okay, it was a good fight-night card. Michael Kiasse of a sense. was solid. Obviously, Jose Aldo being Joseo, always like watching that guy go out and do legendary things. But again, it's not a great, but you're asking people pay $70 for that card. It was not a $70 card. Same thing right here. This is literally the UFC throwing anything at the wall and saying, let's see how many people will just tune in because they hear the UFC is on Saturday night. This is not good. And this is, this is just a bad card all the way around.

Anyone that tries to justify it otherwise is lying to you. You cannot justify and try to argue with me that this is somehow a good card. And so missing them for a week? No, I sure didn't. I'm actually looking forward to Giga-Ciccaciz and Edson Barbosa. That's next weekend. That's a fun fight. I'm looking forward to that. Literally nothing I'm looking forward to this weekend. What do you think, Jed? You're a positive fella. What do you think? Are you hankering for this for this apex card after a week off? Dude, they needed to take like a year off for me to be excited about this piece of trash. This is, look, there are so many angles to attack for how bad this card is that it feels,

honestly, this feels like playing basketball against like a six-year-old. Like, it's too easy, but I'm going to dunk it on him anyway. Like, want to guess how many people on this card have Wikipedia pages? Here's a hit. It's literally half. Only 50% of this card has a Wikipedia page. And that's because somehow Roosevelt Roberts has. a wiki and he shouldn't have a wiki.

There's no world in which that man should have Wikipedia page. So like, this court is just garbage. There is, the main event is a fun fight. And I totally echoed him. I have no idea how Marco Matt and Clay Gwita is the

co-main event. Because like there's one good fight this weekend. And I'm going to spend it now because I'm not going to use this for my low-key banger of the week, even though it's obviously the best fire of the weekend by a country mile. Alexandria Pantoja, Brandon Roy Valle, like, that fight is awesome. That fight matters.

And that fight is somehow just buried on the main card. It's two top five flyways. It's like how that isn't the co-main event absolutely astonishes me. So the UFC clearly doesn't give a shit about this card because they just, they chalked this up as a loss months ago when Costa fell out. There's like, oh, whatever, we're done. We don't care about this anymore. Clay Guida, sure. go fight an Olympian.

Trevin Jones, here, we're going to pull this dude in two days notice to fight you. Just whatever. We're just getting paid, man. Collecting them checks is what this card should be called. That's fine.

They're going to be two and a half good fights. I scored this fight a 50 out of 100. Like this whole car is a 50 out of 100 because there are two actual good fights on it. And sure, Mark Madsen, I'm down to watch an Olympian. kind of keep climbing that ladder.

I'm really excited to watch him make me some money because, again, I do not understand how he is a minus 170 favorite over washed-ass Clay Guida. I genuinely was like, I bet he's going to be a minus 800. No, what? What is happening right now? So it's fun for that because I get to pay off my rent this month. This is, this card should be called UFC Fight Night Contractual Obligations

because this is the definition of the UFC putting on a car. card because they need to present so many shows each year to ESPN plus this is literally UFC fight night contractual obligations Jed why why didn't you just use five out of ten and you and why did you go with 50 out of 100 no because I've decided when when I saw this question I was like I need to come over with a better system of scoring because I feel like I rely too heavily I'm just like this is a f is a f minus I was like let's try and get a little more scientific so I decided that since every card is like 15 fights but every card has at least four fights that are awful.

I'm just going to do, I'm going to give each fight can earn up to 10 points for the card overall, and you just only count the top 10 fights and the bottom X amount you throw off. If a fight card randomly decides it wants to be 8, it's automatically an 8 plus because the 8 fight card is magic. And then as I went down, I was like, okay, the main event, that's a 10. I want to watch that fight happen. and Pantoja Royval, that's a 10. That's 20 points.

The rest of it, I was generous and got 30 more points combined. Like Mark Madsen, that's worth like six points on his own. And Brian Kelleher and that dude he's fighting, who has lost like every time we've seen in the UFC but somehow won and got a no contest. Domingo Polarte. Like that's probably going to be fun because Kelleher is really fun and Polarte loses in spectacular fashion.

So, like, that's, that got some points there. But like the rest, William Knight, Fabio Chonard, that fight's going to be awful, but both of those two dudes look like action figures. So I gave them a couple of points in there as well, you know, like, I wanted it to not just be an F, but the most generous score I could come up with was 50. All right, fair enough. So, Jed, real quick, can you find any stakes in this main event? Like, it's a fun fight. You kind of just want to see what's going to happen. but like is there anything on the line win or lose for either of these guys?

Dude, there's so much on the line. Nobody recognizes this. It's my favorite thing in the whole MMA world, I think, is maybe second behind Darren Till's ability to fail upward spectacularly. But Kelvin Gastilum being treated as like a real fighter is awesome because he arguably has zero good wins. he's a good fighter. I'm not saying he's not a good fighter, but his resume,

he has fought some of the best names in the sport, and he has lost to every good fighter he's fought. Like, it hit all of them. His best win is Ian Hinesh. Like, that's, legitimately I think that's his best win. He has a win over Jacaray Soza

and Michael Bisping. Those are bigger names. Both those dudes were old and washed, so those wins aren't like that exciting. But like, look, I pull up his resume to look at it. His wins are Ian Hynish's last one. That is not a great fight, but Hainish is at least a respectable middle weight. Then he's got Chakaray.

That's not much of a win these days. Bisping, that one much of a win these days either. Tim Kennedy, same thing. Another old dude he fought. Fat Johnny Hendricks? Okay. Like, Nate Markwart, he just hasn't fought any, or beaten. He's fought a lot of good guys.

He just hasn't beaten anybody. If he beats Jared Cannoneer, that I think is by far his best win. And Canonier actually also has a little bit of the same thing. His resume is not spectacular if you're really looking at it. But I think Canada is just the best win in Gaston's career by a long shot. And like, it will prove something to me if nobody else. Like, oh, Gaston is more than just being good against fighters he loses because that's where he's impressed. The Israel Adisina fight where he lost, but he looked impressive.

Like he can actually win fights that matter against actual substantive middleweights. And for Canineer, I think Canaanier, yeah, he lost Whitaker. I think a win gets him a title fight, honestly. Like, a Disney doesn't have anybody else to fight. And he was kind of looking at a fight with Canoneer. Then Whitaker beat him. If he beats, if he gets the win here, he might, like, it might just be Canineer's time because he'll be whatever third or, I think third ranked in the UFC right now.

and yeah, I think he, I think a win for Canada Year could very well get him the next title shot. Dan, I know there's no stakes throughout this entire card, but there's a question that came in late for me and AKs, ask us anything onto the next one show, and we didn't get a chance to answer it, so I'll ask you, if Jared Canonier just blows the doors off of Kelvin Gasolm and just starches them, this fight is not close at all until it ends, could we be seeing the last time

Kelvin Gasselm fights in the UFC or does he still have some of that Tom Conklin or Tom Coughlin New York Giants flow going that his name is still somewhat relevant. We could still use him for some things but I mean he's he's on a pretty rough schneide right now

outside of the Ian Heinish win. Well and that's the thing. Kyle what Jed was talking about with his resume he loses but he typically doesn't he doesn't lose in a way that you're like I can't stand to watch this guy fight anymore because he's getting blown out of the water. He's getting knocked out.

He's getting demolished. You got caught in a submission by Jack Hermanson, which was kind of a surprising finish to that fight. And Jackramanson is kind of that, you know, top six guy who will probably never be champion. He'll never be a top three guy. But he's a pretty good, he's a pretty decent middleweight. He caught him there. Okay, that was his one finish there.

He went five rounds with Robert Whitaker. Was it one-way traffic? Sure. But did he get blown out of the water? No. Did he have a potential fight of the year? against Israel Adi Sanya? Yes, he did. That was a great fight. Didn't win it, but it was a great fight. Calvin Gaslim isn't going anywhere. He could get the doors blown off him in two seconds

in this fight. He could be the fastest snake. It could somehow beat Ben Ascran getting plastered by Jorge Mazadol's knee. It could somehow be a four-second knockout. And Calvin Gaslim's coming back because Calvin Gaslim's still young, young enough. He's still a relevant enough name. And there's always, I know people are going to lose their minds when I say this. There's always a prospect, and he'll say, you know what? I'm going to call up the UFCPI. I'm going to work for the next six months, and I'm going to go back to Welterweight.

Because you and I both know that always comes up with Kelvin Gas. He always talks about going back to Welterweight. So no, he's not going anywhere with a loss. I do disagree with Jed on Jared Cannon and here getting a title shot, and here's why, because you kind of, you messed yourself up there, Jed. You said it already. Darren Till loves to fail upwards. Darren Till could squeak out the most controversial

split decision in the history of the sport and beat Derek Brunson, and he will suddenly become the number one contender in that division. He will fight for the title. Actually, he might leapfrog Robert Whitaker and get the title shot against Israel Adi Sanya, because that's what Daryntill does. Darantil doesn't fight, barely wins, and yet somehow becomes the number one guy in the sport. So he may go out there and win the, I mean, he could win like a Michael Bisping versus a Matt Hamill kind of decision where people are losing their mind saying he lost to fight, but he'll still end up getting a tie. And like I said, if I'm Robert Whitaker, I'd be scared because if Darren Till goes out there

and wins, he might get leapfrog. He might just jump in the title shot. Robert Whitaker's going to have to wait. Like, that's what Darren Till does. So Jared Kennedy could go out there and blow the brakes off of Calvin Gasol. He's still ain't getting a title shot. As long as Darren exists in this world, Jared Kahnner is not getting his title shot next. Look, Darren Till might not win per se, but he cuts a hell of a promo.

Just go watch Monday's in the hour. That man, that man cut a promo if nothing else. Yeah, that was some interview. I'm going to add Darren Till into that Nate Diaz, Nick Diaz, BJ Penn list, where it just keeps getting big fights for some unknown reason we're not quite sure about. See, I feel like that's Calvin Gasland, though. Like, he keeps losing in a way that you can believe that he's better than he is. It's textbook Nate Diaz.

But at least Calvin kind of falls into it, though, because this was supposed to be a cannoneer and Costa. Costa doesn't sign for the fight. So Kelvin's like, hey, I'm here. Yeah, same thing with the Whitaker fight. He wasn't supposed to fight Robert Whitaker, but he's like, hey, guys, I'm out here. And so that's what Kelvin. Kelvin Gellumgastom just kind of falls into it.

Darren Till gets selected for these things. Darren Till, I mean, Adisanya was talking about him on the MMA hour about how I'm going to fight Darren Till. Why? What is Darren Till done to earn his time? He has one win over Kelvin Gassel in a really bad fight. And his next fight, he lost. He didn't have won that fight either.

I don't get it. He's one in one in middleweight. And I don't understand. I don't have anything against Darren Till. I'm just saying, like, I don't understand. I don't understand why everyone is banging the drum saying he's, oh, my God, I got to see it. Why do we have seen him find out? What proof is there in the world that him and Adasania would be a good fight?

I mean, he lost to Stephen Thompson. so why wouldn't he beat a much better kickboxing than Stephen Thompson? So listen, this card is fine. There's some good fights. As both these gentlemen alluded to, it certainly hasn't taken the beating that next weekend's card has, my word. Mike, are we video or just audio this week? We're just audio, but you come through.

We could see you through audio. I know you can see me. Listeners, I'm begging you. Do anything else with your Saturday. You can just click on MMAfighting.com. We're going to have the play-by-play of the top. I'm probably going to be stuck doing play-by-play for this damn card. We're going to have recap.

We're going to have all the – any highlights that are interesting, they're going to be on the site. And you can download it all into your brain and have it at the expense of like 10 minutes of your time and a few clicks on our website. And you can have a whole Saturday night to be with your family, be with your friends. Write a book. Sing song.

Do anything else other than spend your time watching this card. Please. Write a book. Write a book. Write the next great American novel. Do that. Read poetry. Paint.

Play with Legos. Anything is available. Step on Lego. Oh, no. It's the worst. That is the worst. I will say I will probably not be watching this card on Saturday because I will be on vacation. Life is about to take a very interesting turn, but I'm going to enjoy a few days

on the Cape with the fam and get away from MMA for a couple of days. But we will, I'm sure we'll react to everything with A.K. on onto the next one. We'll move ahead to dig in a little deeper for this final round of regulation. The point for round three goes to Mr. contractual obligation himself, Damon Martin. Good stuff. It is two to one, despite Jed's plea to do anything else, but watch the UFC on Saturday. So the last topic we'll hit before, I mean, we already know where this is going, but the UFC is not the only game in town, gentlemen. The PFL is back on Thursday. May have already happened by the time our great listeners hear this.

Kayla Harrison versus Genefabian, the main event for that card. Bellator 265 on Friday, headlined by Czech Congo versus Sergei Karatinov, excuse me. That card, Good Lord, took a massive hit today with J.J. Wilson. missing weight by 4.4 pounds for a number one contenders fight against Adam Borch. That is just so wild. So now we have three cars this weekend, Jedmishu, as your face is buried into the palm of your palms of your hands. But we need our low-key banger for the 72-hour stretch.

What is it? Mike, I'm so upset because I did not know that the JJ Wilson-Madam-Borke's fight was off until literally that this moment when you just told me. And that was, that was going to be my Loki Bangor because no one was talking about it. And that fight is actually awesome. Like that fight was really great. So there is, look, the UFC card's bad. This Bellator card is soft about that.

You know me, Mike. I have a tried and true game plan when it comes to Loki Bangers. You pick the two heaviest dudes and you say that's going to be fun. And I can't even say that about Bellator's main event because Czech Congo is the antithesis of fun. That man doesn't know how to be entertaining at all. He is first team walking off the bus, last team, in cage performance. Like, you don't want to watch this dude fight ever. So there's no Loki Bangor from Bellator.

Like, nothing there is, maybe he could talk me into the Fabio Aguilar, Taylor Johnson fight. that's just awful. So I have to go then. I already talked about it, and I didn't want to do it again, but it's easily the best fight of the weekend. Like, I think far over the UFC main event, anything Bellator is doing, sure, PFL, I guess they exist.

Again, I don't watch that because I value my time. But Alessandro Pantosia, Brandon Royval, that's, that fight's awesome. Like, that fight, Pantosia is, I'm really excited to see it. if Pantosia still has stuff in the tank. Because, yeah, he's only 31 years old, man. But this dude's been fighting for, like, 18 years.

Like, I actually think legitimately he's been fighting 17 years. He started when he was, like, 15 or whatever. And that's a long time. Like, we all gave so much praise to Jose Aldo for still being, you know, even maybe still being around where he was and he's been fighting for 17 years. because Pantoja is doing the same thing at a lighter weight class, and that's so hard to do. Like, fighters age really poorly, the lower in weight you go, basically. Like, you can just see that trend across.

At heavyway, you can be competent into your almost 50s. But, like, the lower you get in weight class, the more difficult it is. And at 125, Pantosia, 17 years into the game, he's still, I mean, coming off a big win over Mano Cop, like, that's a big win. This dude is, I don't have the UFC's rankings or R rankings in front of the but I know that Pantosia's, you know, top five, and Hoyvall should also be a top five-ish because he's, if he's not, and that's really weird, because he's coming off a, essentially a title Eliminator bout.

Like, both these dudes are really exciting. 125 is usually a good watch unless it's Asker Asperov. Then go take a smoke. You're good for the next 15. But, yeah, this fight's going to be all action. and maybe the winner probably doesn't. If Pantosia wins, he might well get a title shot, even though he did just lose to Asker Ascroft not that long ago.

I don't think anyone's rushing to get Ascroft into a title shot, frankly. And Pantosia does have a win over current champion Brandon Moreno, but I'm just excited to see it. Like, if I could only watch one fight this weekend, it would easily be this one, both because I do think the stakes matter, two top five-ish guys going against each other. I think just the in-cage product is going to be fun. Like, Royval is, I mean, that dude might be great or he might suck.

Like, I still don't really have a great vibe for him, but we're going to find out this weekend. So, yeah, that's my bangor for sure. Damien, what's yours? Low-key banger for this next 72-hour stretch. So, Jed threw a curveball here because I came into this preparing that he was going to pick Pantosia and Royval. and so I picked a different one, a complete way down the card one,

just because I wanted to come up something different. Then he pulled the U-turn and he said he was going to go with J.J. Wilson, which I would have absolutely agreed and said that Pantosha versus, Pantosha versus Royval is the best fight of the weekend. Let's be honest. I didn't want to pick it because it's so easy, but then the J.J. Wilson fight fell apart apparently. It's the real main event.

It's the fight I'm most excited about this weekend. Brandon Royval is, I'm not kidding, one of the top 10 most exciting fighters in the UFC. when that guy fights, you know something weird and exciting is going to happen, okay? He is that good and that much fun to watch. I don't care who he's fighting. I will watch Brandon Roy Vaughal, and I agree. Pantosia is an incredibly fun guy to watch in his own right.

He's a very good flyweight, and obviously a guy who can absolutely win this fight. So that's the fight of the weekend. That is absolutely the fight of the weekend. I just, I removed it because when Mike's his low-key bangor, I think a fight that's completely slipping under the radar. That one's not slipping under the radar because to me, that's the only fight work. watching this weekend. That being said, I picked one completely out of left field, so I'm going with this one, even though I know Jed will never watch it. I'm going to go with Hinen Ferreira against Stuart Austin and TFL. Follow me when I say this. Hina Ferreira, of course, is the guy who

won and lost Fabrice of Redoom in the same fight. He got triangled and then knocked him out. You only get to do that so many times in your career. He came back, did get a win, didn't get in the playoffs, because the weird PFL point system. And this weekend he's taking it. on Stuart Austin, a guy who loves to fight, win or lose in spectacular fashion. He has a win over Tom Aspinall. He has a win over Tom Aspinall, a current top 15 ranked heavyweight in the world. He goes out there and he has, he wins in spectacular fashion or he loses spectacularly. The guy rarely does not have an exciting finish in there.

I mean, he has a knockout loss to Johnny Walker. He fought Shatoshi Ishi in his last fight. That guy is, you know, human wallpaper in terms of watching him fight. Ishi has not had an exciting fight since ever. So, you know, he went to a decision with him, but he did win. But yeah, if you look at his record, it's littered with wins and losses, but it's littered with wins and losses by TKO, knockout, submission, some crazy wild thing happening.

And like I said, he actually has a win over a legit guy in Tom Aspinall. It was six years ago, but it was still a legit one over a top guy. So that's my low-key bangor fight that no one's probably going to see. It's the featured prelim on the PFL card, which means Jed is really not. going to watch this fight. But that's the one I picked out. I was like, you know what? That's actually not a bad fight.

Ferrer is actually not a bad prospect. He actually isn't. Obviously, the weird thing with for Doom happened, but he's actually not a bad prospect. And Austin, like I said, is a guy who wins or loses in spectacular fashion. So it's a heavyweight fight. God forbid it goes out of the first round.

But assuming it does what heavyweets do, this can be fun for about four minutes. This is a Jedmishu special right there. Oh, I gave a good deal of consideration. once you told me that the JJ Wilson fight was down because legitimately I had I was entirely ready to go all in on that fight and then you're like oh that's not happening it's like oh well that's unfortunate it's like I thought about I could maybe sell Marcelo gold Billy Swans which is also an awful heavy way pal so what you're so what you're saying is I say what you're saying is I saved your game because if I didn't say that you would have went all out

that fight and then I would have to correct you after going all out on that fight that it was over. I did not see that that fight didn't happen. I would just like to say one more thing. I have given, rightfully so, the PFL just enormous amounts of shit. And Damon has also keep on for my sake that PFL. And I will give them one particular thing of props. if I were going to waste my time this weekend and watch the PFL, it is at least easy to do so.

Whereas if I wanted to waste my time and watch this awful Bellator card, it would be very difficult to make it work because no one has showtime. It's 2021. Grow up, Scott Coker. Geez. Oh, man. So this is interesting because much, like Darren Till did on the MMA hour.

Jed cuts a fiery promo at the end. And takes the round. It's two to two. What a surprise. Nobody saw this coming that we're going to go to the knocker round. You just compared Jed to Darren Till, though. I don't know if he's ready for that. I don't know if he's quite ready for that.

Darren Till's comparison. He said he cuts a good promo. I don't know if Darren Jill's ready for that. So that means we're going to head to the knock our round. But speaking of surprises, I do have a surprise coming up at a matter of moments who will be sitting in to judge this knockout round. And for those who are new to the program, each participant will have one minute to answer a question.

They have no idea what this question is. And when that is done, we'll turn it on over to our special guest judge, who will be here at any moment. And he will render the final decision. And I believe he's coming in right now. There he is. The Prince of positivity. How are you, AK?

Not today, my best friend. Not today. I haven't been real positive today. I just hope this, if this secret question is about the ultimate fighter, I'm just going to go and hang up now because I can't tell you anything about that. Trust me. It is not. You guys know what to say. You guys know what to say if it is, all right?

I can tell you so many things about it because I have read A.K. Lee's wonderful recaps on our website. Everyone, he's out there recapping tough. So like the weekend, you don't have to watch it. You can just read. Pop Quiz Hot Shot, named two of the finalists from the show. No. Was one of them just died? Okay.

There's three left. Oh, I don't. I just, oh, give me. Michael Bisping and Ed Herman. I guess. I did not say this season. I did not say this season. I did not say.

He started beating that ass. His team started dominating. This is true. Is Urbina a name? That sounds like one. Correct. He's in the fight. He replaced Trashon Gore, correct.

Yeah. Which I'm sure you knew. Which I'm sure you knew. I sure all right we could talk about this all day but jed you are the you are the winner

you have the champion's prerogative you're definitely going second all right 100% all right I gotta get my uh I got the clock right here all right

all right damon you get to go first 60 seconds so on this program you may have seen maybe you haven't we've talked about what defines breakout stars we've given a different definition

and I want to sort of go back to that topic, but to find it in a more specific way because a couple weeks ago, we had our tag team title match and the question that was presented in this knock around was who was the breakout fighter of the year in 2021. And arguments were made for guys like Brandon Moreno, even guys like the current welterweight champion,

Kamar Usman, for the year that he has had. But we're going to talk more on the line of the top two guys from last year, Kevin Holland, Hamzaa Shemayev. Shemayev comes out of nowhere, takes the MMA world by storm. Kevin Holland always seemed to have the talent, the gift of Gab, but he has a monster year going 5 and O.

And both of those stories have obviously certainly changed in 2021, but both those guys, if you look at it, what breakout is on that end, you could make strong arguments for both those guys last year. So on those lines, Damon, who is the next guy in your opinion

that can break out, that can be in that conversation, maybe at the end of this year, sometime in 2022. That hasn't gotten there quite yet. Who do you have your eye on to take a massive step forward in the eyes of fans or the brass of whatever promotion they are a part of, all right? Breakout Fighter you think is next to be on that list that is not there right now.

One minute on the clock. Your time starts now. Well, that's not easy. But I'm going to say, I'm going to give an answer that's probably not going to be very popular because I'm actually picking a champion, which you're probably thinking, how are you picking a champion as your breakout fighter compared to Chameh and Kevin Holland? But I'm picking a champion.

And I'm going to say it's A.J. McKee. I think A.J. McKee is the guy to watch in this next year to really cross over and transcend to the superstar status. And the reason I say that, obviously, beyond his undefeated record, and he just blew through Petrucia Pitbull inside of two minutes. This guy has everything you want in a fighter. He's about to serve as a commentator next weekend on the Jake Paul versus Tyram Woodley fight. he's in the middle of, you know, obviously being, you know, one of the faces of Bellator, possibly moving up to Lightway where he can actually fight different competition.

Not that Bellator's Lightway Division is all that deep, but he can. And obviously, eventually his contract is going to come up. And when that happens, he's going to become a very, very coveted free agent in this sport. And that's where we're going to see if Uncle Dana is going to open up the checkbook and try to bring him over to add him to a very good friend of the Way Division in the UFC. So A.J. McKee is the guy. I know it's a weird pick considering he's a champion, but he's also in Bellator,

so that also stands for it. All right. There we go. AJ McKee, and it's funny, I was thinking about him today and wondering how Bellator has sort of presented him since he won the title.

Like, it's a no-brainer. He's going to be part of the broadcast, but I still feel like he should have been like on all the morning talk shows, doing the media tour all over the place and more people got to know who he was, but be that as in May.

Jed Michoud, same question for you, my friend. Kamar Usman cannot be your answer this time. Brandon Moreno cannot be your answer this time. We're looking guys who are not quite there yet, but have the potential to get there, like Holland, like Shemayev did in 2020.

So one minute on the clock, Jedmishu. Your time starts right now. So when I first heard this, I kind of thought Damon's answer as well. And then I realized, no, because it's been, Bellator, no one gives a shit. We really, really wanted A.J. McKee to be a star. We thought this was the big event, and then that sold, like, three people watched it,

because Bellator is where careers go to die, my friends. At least now they're on Showtime, getting a real network, Scott Coker. So if I can't pick that, I think there are a couple of choices here that I would have my eye on. I want to say Islam Mahajev, but I just don't think he's got that personality the same way Habib did. So I hate to do it. Here you're Pahashka. Like that's, it's a very Sean Oshoddy answer. And I hate Sean, so I don't like to do it.

But year he's going to be fighting for a title next year for certain. This dude is dynamite in the cage. He's hilarious outside of the cage. He's super weird, big ponytail, like all sorts of Bushito, odd vibes to him. He is going to be the next sort of Diaz brother-esque win or lose. People are going to love this dude. and I think he is poised to make an enormous breakout for this upcoming year. All right.

A.K.'s got some decisions to make. We have one argument for A.J. McKee, the current Eleanor, featherweight champion, the Grand Prix winner, and Scott Coker's eyes, the best fighter in the world, regardless of weight class. And on the other end, the fellow ponytail, Yuri Perhashka, the Wildman, the topnot, the guy who is in his next fight should be fighting for the light heavyweight title the backup fighter for the upcoming title fight

between Glover Tashara and Janbovich it should be the other way around AK but I'm trying to build up some drama we turn it on over to you my friend who got it done is a Jedmishu the reigning defending champion

or Damon Martin the challenger those are both outstanding answers first of all congratulations to both of you that was excellent Mike I want to clarify the question so this is who will be the bigger breakout in the next like four months or we're saying and then four months and then going into like 2022 yeah like by the end by the end of this year heading into 2022 who's like the next guy well again both cases are really strong I think demons was very was very scientific, was very on point.

I think mentioning that he is going to be part of that, that Woodley, Paul broadcast is so huge. It's going to introduce him again to sort of a whole new audience. It's an audience that I wish, you know, could see him fight because I'm trying to, he's a fine, you know, he's doing a fine job on the desk because not his first time doing it. So it's a shame that it's, you know,

seeing his personality, but I still wish they could find a way to push his fighting a bit more. But I mean, yes, it's hard to argue against McKee because the guy just really capitalized on that recent performance and, you know, hopefully Belltor helps them out. So I think, I think Damon made a good point there. I like Jed. Jed had me worried because he spent like the first 35, 40 seconds of his answer saying like what

he's not going to do, which is fine. I mean, that's a very Jed thing to do and I respect it. And hold on the guy. Am I used on the right mic? Oh, this is embarrassing. Okay. Well, anyway, so all my... I am not sure better know.

So, yeah, there was a lot of preamble. There was a lot of talking about, again, sort of A.J. McKeemore, which almost helped Damon. And then he made some excellent points again about Yopra Hasca and the sort of unique situation that he's in to potentially become this big star at 205, which is, again, kind of one of the thinnest divisions right now. And it's kind of in need of that name, that popular name, eccentric name, memorable. Memorable name, memorable fighting style. So that was a good point by Chad. Mike, I really have to pick a winner between these two? Yeah, that's why you're here.

You're supposed to help me out. We're best friends. I know, I know. I think this is my first time doing this. I thought I might have done it before, but now I don't know. I don't think I've ever had to judge before. You have. Casey brought you in, remember?

You were the little dot on the bottom of the screen? Who did I judge? Jed and someone else probably. Yeah. It was definitely me. I don't remember who it was yet. It was so long ago. It was so long ago.

I don't have a particular affinity for either fighter, so they could, you know, kissing either fighter. ass was not going to, you know, influence me, which would have really helped, actually. I wish I felt one way or another, but either guy. Mike, I think the win this week, just because, not just because I agree with the point, but because I do think it kind of made me look at it in a different way, I, I guess I have to give the win to one Mr. Jedmer's shoe. Oh!

I, I think, I think Damon's answer was so much more sensitive. I think it's very possible. It plays out exactly as Damon said it would, but I'm not going to lie, the Yuri Prohachka answer, excuse me, really tapped into my imagination event and really made me think about sort of the dire straits that 205 was kind of in. So maybe I'm just being optimistic and hoping

in this best case scenario where Europhrajka becomes this big star and kind of revitalizes that division. So, you're for sure going to be a bigger star than AJ McKeever. Again, I don't know. Like I said, I think Damon made a very good case for why AJA could be a brigout star, but there is a lot of ifs there as well. If he will he make his way to the UFC, you know, by next year, who knows? But either way, again, both arguments were strong.

This was, this was splitting hairs, Mike. This was just, you know. All I'm saying is, I'm calling this is, this is Roy McDonald, Gleason Tile ass garbage. This is, oh, my goodness. You bring in, you bring in Chris Lee as the judge over here. That's my brother. Hey, that's my brother. You bring it.

That's my brother, not me. Do you work in New Jersey? Do you work in, do you work in Jersey? What's going on here? I am part of the New Jersey. This is a BS right now, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's true.

I agree. If A.J. McKee was in the UFC, like, 100%. That dude is the next breakout star of life. But, like, dude, there's like 40 people watched him in the biggest fight in Belator history. The Lentor is just It's hard Next time If it's like

If it's like 400 people That watch the next fight Then Damon was right But we will have to see You know If there's a 10 times Increase in audience numbers For his next fight

Then Damien was Who's the judge Who's the judge Who's the judge who's Who's the third round Against Bobby Green? Who's that? I can't remember

It was Texas Jeremy something Yeah that's my new nickname for you AK This is how This is how deeply you've currently currently here. I have a feeling we will be having an emergency meeting with the BTL championship committee sometime in the next several days, and we will have a ruling, I'm sure, if it gets to that level.

But Jed, good, bad and different, for good times or for bad, you are the winner. AK has awarded you with the victory, two straight since the little hiatus hitting the refresh button. You know what the prize is. 30 whole seconds to talk about whatever is you want to talk about. Well, you know, it just feels great to be back on top of the podium. It's, uh, I fell off a little bit. I wasn't as focused and committed, but I've got it together. I'm building a comeback.

But it's not, it's not the most impressive comeback we're going to see because, dear listener, you should go to m.m.a fighting.com right now and read an article by our own, like heck, uh, called unpacking the suitcase kid, how trauma self-sacrifice and tragic night in Philly may inspire a musical. It is one of the best pieces of writing you're going to read, certainly this month, if not this year. Really interesting story about Eugene Aubrey, and you should, I highly encourage you all to go read that. And, oh, and also to everybody who, like, three years ago said MMA fighting was dying, eat a big bag of poo. We back, baby!

I was, I was, I had this comment loaded as you were speaking, Jen. I was like, what a classy, I say, what a classy champion. I feel like I feel better about this call now. I guess I just still feel good about it. Thank you for speaking up for all of us, I guess, in your own wonderful way. Everybody else has too much class to say it. But I saw all the people being like, oh, everybody fighting, they're dying. Oh, oh, everything's going bad.

We never left, baby. We just getting stronger. Come at me now. David, what would you like to say outside of A.K.'s apparent horrible judging in your eyes. I would say I would echo what Jed said. If you get 15, 20 minutes to spare today, go read about Eugene Aubrey. It is one of the most harrowing, chilling, jaw-dropping stories I've ever read. I mean, just mind-blowing.

So I will echo those sentiments. And also to that point, if I'm going to lose, at least I'm losing to somebody that works for the best website in mixed martial arts, every day fighting. That's right, baby. That's right. And by the way, if you are not a, if you're not a big fan of the reading,

if you have maybe a 45-minute drive ahead of you, you can listen. You can listen to the story of Eugene Aubrey on our podcast network, a little mini-documentary you put together, which took a lot of work. but I think it came out pretty fantastic. So multiple ways you can check up this story. And I appreciate the kind words, gentlemen.

With that said, this episode is over. We'll be back next week. I don't know if we'll be back Tuesday or Thursday. Who knows? But we'll be here, all right? So for Jed, for A.K., for Damon Meyer, and I am Mike Keck. We'll see you back once again between the lakes. Good night, everybody.

We love, Colby Covington. I love you guys. I love you guys. And all the listeners, I love you guys, too. We love you, A.K. Thank you for doing this. Happy birthday, A.K. Of course.

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