MMA Fighting - Between the Links, Episode 10: What’s Next For Edmen Shahbazyan, UFC Vegas 6 vs. Bellator 243, and More

Episode Date: August 4, 2020

Check out episode 10 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and journalist Anthony Walker to discuss where Edmen Shahbazyan goes after the first loss of his career to Derek Brunson in the main event of UFC Vegas 5. In addition, the panel discusses which card is better this weekend between UFC Vegas 6 and Bellator 243, which upcoming UFC title fight is the most competitive, Cody Garbrandt’s potential move to 125 to challenge Deiveson Figueiredo, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Ant Walker: @AntWalkerMMA Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links, your host, Mike. Thank you, Esther Lynn, as we welcome you to a brand new edition of Between the Links right here on MMAfighting.com. Hope you had a great weekend. Hope you're enjoying the start to the week. We have a lot to discuss, as always on the program. A lot happening this week, so let's get right into this thing and introduce the combatants first, the Challenger. He makes his BTL debut.

He's been on the A-Side a few times, been on a few shows here on the network. Coffee Talk, amongst other things. Let us welcome MMA journalist, Ant Walker, to the program. Ant, welcome. How are you, sir? I'm feeling good, man. I appreciate being able to come on here and give Jed this work.

So I'm ready to rock, man. Let's go. And I am excited as well as we introduced the reigning, defending, BTL champion of the universe. He took the title last week. with a it was a hard-fought victory for a while until the final question where he just kind of was able to not just steal it he was able to just like tickle AK and just remove the title from him he didn't even have to throw any hands or anything from m-a-futting.com mr jedd meshew welcome back how

goes it sir first i don't know that i've ever tickled AK so i'd like to set the record straight on that one just right out of the gate verbally verbally I feel like that was a verbal beatdown much like what's about to happen here uh you know they say you're not a champion until you you defend your title. I'm glad to have a legitimate challenger here. I greatly respect, aunt, but he will fall, all will fall. I am the man and I intend to remain the man. I love the confidence from both sides of the panel here. Let's kick off the festivities this week by talking about the main event of this past Saturday night, UFC Vegas five events. Derek Brunson finishes Edmund Shabazzian in the third round in a fight that could have

possibly been stopped at the end of the second round, but the middleweight division, Wonder Kids, so to speak, had a good first round, even won it on a judge's card, but then Brunson completely took over in the second, and he handed Shabazzian's first loss. And you won the blind draw this week. We're going to start with you. Most fighters like Shabazian, they get the vet lesson at some point in their careers, and Edmund got his on Saturday, clearly a super talented guy. If you're the UFC, where would you go with him for his next move following Saturday night?

I think the only appropriate thing to do is dial him back significantly. Derek Brunson is a steep challenge for anybody. And you look at the past victories that Shabazzian has, and he didn't have anyone the caliber of Brunson. I was among the people that picked Shabazzian to win that fight. And I think for good reason, but we saw a very different Brunson than we typically see in some of these high-pressant situations. He didn't rush. He didn't lead with his chin. He was very methodical.

but I think for Shabazzian, the best thing to do is take it a step back from somebody who is less experienced or at least hasn't proven to be elite against the elite. I say give him, if Uriah Hall doesn't come out victorious against Yole Romero, give him Uriahaw, or I say take the loser of this weekend's Chris Wyman versus Amari, however he pronounce his name. So give him the loser of one of those two fights. I think that's an appropriate step back, but I think the first thing Sabazian should be doing, he should be looking elsewhere for his coaching and his training. He doesn't have the same level of accomplishments that Ronda Rousey had at Glendell Fight Club, which understandably will make it more difficult for her to break ties when it was clear that her coaching kind of ran his course. He has the ability at 22 years old to get out to a better camp.

if you want to retain Edmund Tauverdian as your striking coach do so, but get a better coaching situation and get out of there and expand while the UFC dows at a step back and we can truly see what potential he has. Jed, what do you think? What should be next for Shabazian and do you agree with Ant on the camp situation as well? Well, if you want to keep Edmund Tervidian as your striking coach, don't do that anyway. Even if you want to do, that's just a bad choice and you should not make that

choice because it's going to severely hinder your career. You know, I started this off by saying that I have a lot of respect for Ant and I do because he made a lot of really good points. You know, I could see a Uriah Hall if he loses to O'Meiro Mero being an okay set up fight. I wouldn't be against the loser of Ahmedov-Widman either except for the fact that I think Wydom is going to lose again. And so really I'd be against seeing Wydenman fight anymore. Love for him to stop doing this. but you know he he did that thing that I thought he was going to do is reasonable you know smart good arguments and completely wrong because we don't need to dial Edmunds of Aisembach I mean we can that's fine he's 22 plenty to grow on there but that fight with Brunson was pretty fun you know he he looked like

maybe he had something building on the first and he just kind of gassed out you could put a lot of that to camp probably, to being young, to maybe the moment got too much for him. But as far as skills, I don't think he was kind of outmatched there. He just, he hit a wall and he's going to come back and get better than that. I do think you don't want to, you know, let him fail upwards like, I don't know what other people do or the man I'm about to tell you. But I think the fight that makes the most sense is Darren Till. And people are going to say, why would, Darren Till is even higher ranked than Brunson. But why is he higher ranked than Brunson? Who did Darren Till ever beat? Honestly, like he has wins over Kelvin Gasselham and Stephen Thompson, both of which are highly

controversial, competitive fights, but those are his marquee wins. The other win is Donald Soroni. That's his other big win. Darren Till has failed upward spectacularly throughout his career because he has a wonderful personality, and he has a lot of hallmarks of a good fighter. But I think him versus Shabazi and is actually really competitive. And it would be a pretty good level set for both of these young prospects. And it'd just be fun. Like the UFC's interested in both guys. Let's throw them at each other.

It won't knock out a contender, but it will let somebody kind of build. And I think it's a pretty good competitive fight if you're just looking at the merits of their opposition. Interesting. Like, it doesn't matter what I think on this show. It's about the arguments and everything. It always matters, Mike. Yeah. Thank you for that.

You've buttered me up. I understand what you're trying to do here. But if we're being fair, I actually lean more towards Antside. I suggested Eric Anders as a guy. He's probably like a top 20 guy, a guy that can give Edmund some challenges, but a guy that also needs a win. It'll be very motivated to take a fight like Edmund Shabazzian and try to push that hype train a little bit more.

But Daryntill is interesting as well. Darren Till gets anybody is really interesting. But let's talk about Brunson here, Jed, because Brunson's been doing this for a while. He looked great on Saturday night. He called for fights with Herman. The aforementioned Darren Till. And then he called for the shot the BMF title, which I thought was the biggest swing and a miss ever. But, you know, the others I'm fine with.

Listen, Brunson's shooting for the stars. I'm not going to blame for that, but just never, ever going to happen. But what should be next for Brunson? Would you give him a Till or Hermanson? Or are you looking at a different direction, Jed? Well, I don't know if it's the biggest swing and a miss ever because, I don't know, 30 minutes earlier. There was a call out of Nate Diaz that has less chance. the BMF title shot happening.

I love his Jinta Luque, but he's not fighting Nate Diaz, so that was even more ridiculous than the BMF callout. Masadol maybe wants to go to middleweight just for funsies. I think Brunson is, he's been at this long time, and it's pretty obvious. Jackermanston's free. That's clearly the matchup you make. The winner of that is next in line for the winner of Costa Adasanya.

I mean, I guess that also depends on Whitaker Canineer. but the UFC likes to have multiple contenders in line. I just don't see how you get away from Hermanson at this point. They're both on pretty good runs here. This is, I think, the best run of Brunson's career if you're just looking at name value and kind of where he's at positionally. So look, if he gets one more win, he should fight for a title just because it feels like he deserves that opportunity before his career is over.

So, yeah, give him Hermanson. I think that's where we go. Agree or disagreeant? Halfway. I think the Hermanson fights sounds good, but I also wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Romero if Romero gets past Uriah Hall. That sounds like a reasonable thing.

And also this is to keep Romero out of a title fight. So the more we can delay that, that's fantastic. And that probably will go different if they were to fight again. Stop trying to keep the real champion down. Yo, Romero, 2021, baby. Yeah, I can't rock with that. I love to watch a Romero fight, but can we keep him away from anything resembling a title fight right now? Just dial it back.

Brunton Romero, too, sounds like a good place to go for me. I don't hate that idea either. And listen, no Romero fighting for titles. He's had enough title shots. What about a light heavyweight title? Come on. You can't tell me you don't want to see you. I knew you're going to say that.

I knew it. Okay, I'm with you on that. Yes. At 185, at 185, no more time. title shot three. You want to put him at 205? That'd be great. And somehow he loses a leg, he can do it at 170.

How about that? But middleweight is a... I won't give Oll Romero versus Derek Lewis. That's the fight I want. It has to start in the third round, but that's the fight I want to see. Wow. That would be something amazing. Just the promos leading up to that and the media scrums.

Man, how great would that be? Amazing. Middleweight is a pretty good time right now. You got a big title fight coming up. You get a number one contender fight on the books between Whitaker and Canineer. I like it. I like 185 right now. But at the end of the day, the point is going to go to the challenger. Ant Walker, very close round, very close.

As we head to our next question, speaking of Derek Lewis, the UFC is back again on Saturday night with a fight. Headlined by Derek Lewis and Alexi Olinic. Bellator is back as well with Bellator 243 on Friday night. That is headlined by Michael Chandler versus Benson Henderson 2. So my question to Jed Mishu, top to bottom, all things considered, which card is better this weekend? UFC Vegas 6 or Bellator 243? What if instead of choosing, we just picked like a couple of fights on each and made one actually good fight card instead of this like halfway for both? Because if you're going to put a gun to my head, I guess maybe I'd prefer Bellator just because they've got like three fights that I kind of find interesting.

but it's still a bellator. They're good, they're interesting. How much do we really care about pretty washed Benson Henderson versus possibly washed Michael Chandler? I don't know, man. I know that I'm a weirdo, and so the Matt Mitchell and Timothy Johnson fight is going to be hysterically funny,

and I'm kind of interested in watching that barnyard explosion. But other than that, I mean, the Bellator card's not great. The problem is the UFC card is very low on name value. Chris Wyman and the co-main event quite possibly going to get brutally beaten again, which is just heartbreaking to watch. And that doesn't make anybody feel good. I do, you know, I will say the UFC does have the Benny Daryusha Scott Holtzman fight. That's a low-key banger.

I really like Benny Darius as a fighter. So I'm pretty interested in that. But beyond it, it's just the main event. And again, similar to the heavyweight fight at Bellator, is Louis Alainik. a good fight? I mean, technically, they're highly ranked fighters. Is it a hilarious fight? Absolutely. It's my favorite fight of the weekend by far. So I guess ultimately I'll pick the UFC, but it's pretty close and neither's great. And what do you think? If you could watch one just based on the cards themselves, are you watching Bellator? Are you watching the UFC on Saturday? I'll probably go with Bellator because

they do have better name value on that card, but it's still not saying much about either offering. But I think it's more damning toward Bellator because you had to get some, you got, like, Mitrione versus Timothy Johnson is not high quality by any stretch of the imagination. It is. Just depends on what you mean by quality. Well, quality as far as, you know, like relevant. Kind of quality. Yeah, like quality as far as like, it pairs very good with my beer.

Yes. It pairs excellently with my beer. So I'll enjoy that. But I can't quite get. behind, I don't know. This is, this Bellator tried this time. They tried and it still is comparable to the UFC not trying. And this is this is sort of a problem with, with the roster disparity for these organizations.

And I think this is what it highlights more than anything else. But gun to my head and I can only watch one. I'm probably going to watch Bellator, you know, to have Chandler Henderson, which could still be good despite both of them being well past their prime. rhymes. Mitreone Timothy Johnson is the poor man's Lewis O'Liniac. I'll take that. Curtis Melinda's always fun. Miles Jury is a fun guy to watch. So I'm okay. AJ Agri's arm. I like watching him fight. And I really like watching Valerie Laredo fight. So there we go. Can we put that on Bellator's tombstone whenever they die? They tried. They tried.

It's like eight for effort. They gave it a shot. So last week, last week on the show, Jed sold wolf tickets so hard on Ed Herman versus Gerald Mearshard. That like low key, hold on, hold on, hold on. That low key like just crazy wild fight of the weekend. And by like Thursday or Friday, Jedd, I was with you. Yeah, because it was going to be awful. Then it got, it was off on Saturday.

So, Ants, we mentioned a couple of fights. We mentioned like Lewis Olinick is kind of funny if you really think about. it and Mitriyon versus Johnson is the kind of the poor man's version of that as you stated. What is sort of the Ed Herman versus Gerald Mearshardt madness fight that you have circled for this weekend outside of those two that I've already been mentioned? Ooh. I mean, Tim Means fighting is always something weird going to happen. Tim Means always has some sort of trickery going on there.

So that'll be the first thing I pick. Yonakuna Kaya also finds herself in some strange. fights as of late. So one of those two fights, I'm sure something bizarre is going to happen. We'll see gifts and we'll have a lot of hot takes on Twitter. So I'm there for it. Jed, I cannot wait to see how deep you dig to find something like Mirchard Herman here. What do you got? One, I am offended that you said I sold wolf tickets. I did not. I sold true and valuable tickets to what would have been an awesome, absurd middleweight fight at 205. But the MMA gods just killed that entire fight card this past weekend.

That's not my fault. If you wanted to say that I was wrong in talking about the Venada Bobby Green fight, hand up. I thought that fight might be boring because Bobby Green has a tendency to do that. Super wrong. But I was totally right. That fight would have been awesome. I hope they book Ed Herman real soon. As far as a deep cut on this fight, there aren't a lot of great deep cuts.

I agree with Aunt Tim Means usually gets into some weirdness. it's tough for me to think except for saying the one that's going to hurt me the co-main event is going to be an awful fight because Chris Wyden is going to be winning before he loses in such a comically bad way and it's just his MO now like that's that's just what he's done for the last X amount of years of his career is he gets your hopes up he looks good you think

yeah that's why this guy is a middleweight champion and then he just finds a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, and he's going to do it against tomorrow, Akmettov, because it's just what he does. I think that's going to be the weirdest thing that happens this card, and it's maybe not as fun as Lewis Alanick, which is, I still think that's going to be the funniest thing ever to watch Alexi Elinik try to back back Derek Lewis,

and Derek Lewis is just going to stand up. And I'm like, nope, I'm just stand up. It's going to be great. But yeah, give me the co-main event, because it's going to be a super, super weird comeback, K.O. I said wolf tickets because I wanted to see how angry Jed would get. I got really mad.

The arms were shaking as they were extending from his left to his right. But if this weekend is anything like last weekend, buckle up because this could be very entertaining in a lot of different ways, much like this matchup so far on BTL. The point goes to the champion. Jed Michoud ties it up. As we head to our next question, we have three big title fights coming up for the UFC. in the next few months. All right.

So let's start with next Saturday. We have UFC 252 Steepi Mietchich versus Daniel Cormier, the trilogy for the heavyweight title, DC's final fight. Next month, UFC 253 got Israel Addisona versus Paolo Costa for the 185 pound title. And then on October 24th for the lightweight title, we have Habibn Mabaga made off fighting Justin Gachie. All three of these fights absolutely rule. They are awesome.

But I ask you, Ann Walker, what's the best of the bunch here? from a competitive standpoint, which of these three title fights is the best fight? Oh, man. I'm going to start by putting the X's on the fights that I'm not going to pick. Izzy versus Costa. I think Izzy is going to wash Costa. Costa, from a skill standpoint, has not shown me anything that makes me think he's going to be able to handle Izzy's very sophisticated level of offense. Khabi versus Gehji, as great of a fight as that is, we also have the,

danger of running into, oh, we're hype for someone to expose Khabib, and then they don't. And Kibb does exactly what he always does to everybody. That's kind of the sense I'm getting from this fight, even though Gagee probably on paper has the best chance of beating him. But Stipe v. D.C. has twice proven to be competitive back and forth fights. So why wouldn't it be for a third time with more at stake, not only the heavyweight title, but the title of the greatest heavyweight of all time is going to be a lot. on the line for this. How do they not

have a competitive fight? Fador's career went away at it? I mean I mean, let's not poke holes in Fador's career right now because that's just way too easy. We don't even want to go down that path my man, you know that. So don't make me slander Fador here. But Stipe

versus D.C has proven twice to be competitive. Even when D.C. knocked him out in the first round in their first fight, Sipa was definitely landing some good shots. It was a very, very tense fight until it wasn't. For the second fight, which I was privileged to be 30 feet away from, sitting at Press Row, D.C. was handling Stipe quite easily until he wasn't. And Steve A started

gaining momentum. And next thing you know, D.C.'s on the floor suffering a knockout loss. So you have two knockouts from either gentleman. Why wouldn't the third fight exceed expectations when you have so much on the line here? Steepi. versus DC is the most competitive out of those three fights. Chad, what do you think? Well, one, aunt, I do want you to slander fador because if we go to extra innings here, then that's going to weigh on cases mine when he's making the choice. I know how to play to my audience here.

You know, again, solid arguments by aunt, but just dead wrong. He's right on the Khabi Gatheesh thing. I'm not picking that because frankly, that fight's not going to be competitive. either way it goes. That's an either or fight. Either Khabib can get the takedowns, and then we've seen that story 28 times before, or he can't,

and then he's just going to get knocked out. The fight's not going to be a back-and-forth banger. It's one-way traffic either way, and I'm fairly confident that one-way traffic is Habib. Gigi is a very pedigreed wrestler, and I don't think that's going to matter. One whit! As far as the second choice, I mean,

I get what Aunt's saying about Stepe and DC-3, They have been pretty competitive fights. I think Stipe is probably winning the first round until he got colded in their first fight. And then the second one, obviously D.C. was doing very well. And as said, Stipe made some adjustments and came back strong. I just don't think this third one's going to be that competitive because I guess I'm a Steve Miochitator. I don't know. I think he's a good fighter.

I think he is probably more the beneficiary of really good timing for the heavyweight division and the fact that like the best heavyweights in the world during his like peak peak years. One was competing at light heavyweight because his training partner was perma injured in the heavyweight division. And so steep is kind of just snuck in there. I think he's a good fighter. Full credit to him for making the adjustment, tacking the body in the rematch. But I think in the trilogy, Cormier is fighting for his legacy. He is going to wrestle the pants off Stepe and there's nothing Stepe can do about it.

And so I just don't think that fight's going to end up being that competitive. you know, even though the other ones have been. I also get what he's, what Aunt's saying about Izzy versus Costa, but I think that's the most competitive fight. I think Costa presents the most discernible challenge for me at middleweight for Izzy right now. Not because I think he's going to win.

I think Izzy probably still gets the work done and, you know, handles his business. But, you know, Izzy had such an easy time with Bobby Knuckles because Robert Whitaker is not a great pressure fighter. He's a blitzer. He just charges in, errantly swinging, and he got countered left, right and center. Paulo Costa, he does some of that as well, but he's much better with pressure. I know it's a long time ago in his history, but Addisina did have trouble with Marvin Vittori,

when Marvin Vittori was just like, all right, I'm just going to get in your face as much as I possibly can. Kelvin Gaskillam had success, just kind of getting in and throwing hands. And I think Costa is probably going to eat more shots than he lands, but he's going to make it a dog fight by just coming forward and throwing them banks. and he'll work the body. If he doesn't get too stuck on headhunting because of all the trash he's talked beforehand, I think he's going to have a better chance. I think that fight is just going to be a banger. Like it's going to be back and forth.

You're going to see the championship quality that Izzy has. And so that's the fight I'm most looking forward to from an actual competitive standpoint. I think it's the closest one. All right, Jed, let me go back to you because rumor has it and nothing's been confirmed by the UFC as of yet, but they're going to do two paper views in October. That's what we're here in October 24, then like two weeks before. they're going to do another one. So we got the heavyweight title fight booked. We got Habib versus Gaichi on the 24th. Now we have to book a main event for this first pay-per-view card in

October. And we have some champions that are out there. And we also have to sort of balance the fact that we want these folks to buy two pay-per-views. Spend $65, not once, but twice. You know most these people are going to buy Habib versus Gaichi that's such a massive fight. What would you have headline with what's remaining and available that first Paper view in October. I mean, if you're trying to look for a headliner, you're looking for a championship fight, and there are only a couple of those available. Like, I think it'd be ridiculous, but I'm in on Volcanowski-Sahudo, but I think that's too

quick a timeline probably for Volcanowski. He said he wants to be something closer to end of the year. I think the answer is a topic we're going to discuss later. I think you do Davis and Figurato defending his belt, and I think you do Cody Garbrandt. I think that fight makes sense. I know I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but I think that is probably a pretty good one, unless you just want to do the Peter Yan versus,

I would think, Al Jermaine Sterling, but God knows what Dana is doing at this point. Maybe it's me for the Bantamweight title, since he won't give it to Aljo. Who can say? What would you do, Ant? I mean, we got some options, and listen, if you can persuade Mazadol or Connor,

I don't think Connor's going to be the guy, but maybe a Mazadol could be up for it if you pay him right. What would you headline this first card with? I probably go with the Jan Aljo fight. Maybe you double stack that with Chef Chanko versus Jennifer Maya, something like that. That would probably be my top choices in that. I mean, I think both of those fights aren't necessarily strong enough on their own to really sell a pay-per-view.

But if you can package them together, it might lead somebody to go ahead and click that by. at the last second where they otherwise wouldn't have. Mike, am I allowed to be creative? I know the UFC is firmly against creativity, but if I had my actual druthers, what I would choose is Valentina Shvchenko versus the top five fly weights back-to-back one night. That's the entire main card.

You give her a 10-minute break in between hand, and she's going to work them all, and it would be awesome. So that's my real choice. I just know that won't happen because the UFC is anti-fund. MMA Dixtown. Yes. No love for Alex K. Lease fighter of the year, Kamara Usman, defending against Gilbert Burns.

That might have got a shot here, but it is what it is. Aunt Walker gets the point. He is up two to one. What a battle this has been. We could go like 10 rounds of this. But as Jed alluded to, speaking of title fights, there are talks that Cody Garbrand is looking to move to 125. and could possibly get right into a championship opportunity.

And it's funny because on this program, just a few weeks back, we talked about how exciting 125 was getting, having a new champion, and having arguably three guys who could all fight Figurato next, and Brandon Moreno, Alex Perez, and Asker Ascarap. Now we have Garbrand in the discussion. So, and we're going to start with you here, this has been met with sort of mixed feelings.

Like sometimes when a fighter goes, down, we're like, all right, this is pretty cool. I kind of want to see what happens. With Garbrand, it's been kind of like 50-50. So how do you feel about Cody being likely the frontrunner here when he's gotten some momentum back at 35? I don't like it. I really don't like it for multiple reasons. One of those reasons is not that Cody Carbrand can't make 125. Out of the fly weights that I've met and interviewed and stood in front of and everything, Garbrand seems to fit size-wise that same bill. I would, I would, I think Suhudo was a bigger person than Garbrand, at least like muscle wise and whatnot. So I think he could make that cut without much difficulty, but I still don't want to see it.

I mean, how we just got finished watching Cody get dusted early in three fights. He gets one good win. I mean, one sensational win. K-O-the-year candidate for sure. But are we ready for him to lose 10 pounds and then fight another power striker? No, fam. that just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And how about this?

How about we let the flywaves just be the flywates for a second here? We were just, like just weeks ago, we're wondering whether the division was still going to exist because the Figuerreiro and Benavita's first fight that the mis on the scales. And before that was like, okay, well, Sehudo's not coming back. Who's going to fight? Is this title even worth keeping?

We were just on the brink of this division going away. and now the division is back. We have a guy who could be a bona fide star and has the fight style that makes sense to push a promotional wise in this division. Oh, so let's bring a Bannonweight down to fight him. Who's a star that we were trying to push in that division? It doesn't make any sense.

Let the flywates be the flywaves, 125ers, fight 125ers. And then we can start the superfight talk. But let's not start superfight talk with fights that aren't superfights in a division that just almost went away a blink of an eye ago. I do not like this one bit. Jed, why do I have the feeling this is going to be,

aunt makes a lot of great points, but he makes no good points this time. This isn't a super, this isn't a super fight. It's a 125 fight. If he drops the weight, he's not a champion. He's a former guy dropping down. You know, that's happened all the time. And Ant is straight up, I'm damn sure watch Cody Garbrandt fight another power strike.

I would love to see Cody Garbering get into a right-hook competition with Davidson Figurato. Who doesn't want to see that? The ending will be fun regardless of who gets there first. It will be enjoyable. And, you know, when you say, hey, let's let the 125ers cook. They've got a new champion who could be a star. This is how you make him a star. God love Brandon Moreno.

He's a fun fighter. Four people in the world know him and three of those people are on this call right now. Like, no one's going to know if Davis and Figurato works him. him over. Ascar Ascotov, same thing here. But Cody Garbrandt was a former champion. He got a big push. The UFC was really invested in him. And 135's a log jam right now, man. Do we really want to see Cody Garbrandt, like, fight, I don't know, a grudge match against somebody and then maybe get a title shot ahead of some other people? There are a ton of bangers going at 135 right now. Let's let Banham weight cook. Let's let Peter Jan and Aljo and all those just figure out where they resolve. And meanwhile, Cody Garbrandt, who's finally back in the winning column, can go try and get another belt and can make $1.25 and the champion there who is an exciting banger of a fighter.

Either way, the outcome's great. The UFC either gets a champion that they've wanted to be a champion for a long time and already developed and pushed into to now spearheaded division that they kind of hate. Maybe they'll start giving it a little more love with Cody, you know, heating those reins. or Davis and Figuero gets a huge scalp. Now he's a guy they can push because Joe Rogan can start screaming about, man, Davis and Figueroon knocked out Cody Garber. This guy was a band-and-weight champion.

Plus, again, you're just lying if you don't want to see Cody throw right hooks with somebody until somebody falls down. I would love to watch that again. I'll watch that every weekend if they give me the choice. 100% that's the fight to make. It's the one I want to see. What if Davis and Jed, what if he does go out there and just start? Garbrand. Like goes out there, they throw right hooks, starches Garbrand. Like, what if he knocks

him out, which is very, very possible? Like, is this the end of Cody Garbrand? Is it the best case scenario for the UFC? Like, going down to 25, getting beat and getting starched or finished by the flyweight champion as the former 35 pound champion, is the juice worth the squeeze for all involved in the long term here? Yeah. I mean, he's, if he was currently the Bannonweight champion, there's a risk there, but he's not. He's the fifth ranked Bannamweight contender. Like, yeah, he probably can stick around Bannamweight and get another title shot. Like, he's got a lot of talent. But again, that division's a shark tank right now.

So why add one more to the mix here? Let them suss it out. He can come back up later. If he does get knocked out, it's not the end of Cody Garbrand's career. Like, oh, I tried dropping 125, swung and I missed. You know, the weight cut affected me. You can sell it. He goes back up, beats a top 10 Bannumweight if he can.

And then if he wins, he's got the belt. Like, I see it as pure upside. Even Cody getting knocked out is just not that bad an outcome for the UFC because they're risking so little. Like he's not getting a title shot tomorrow at Bannumweight. How about this? How about we let Garbrand drop to 125, but he doesn't jump right into a title shot. Let him take a flyweight fight and just test the waters. Make sure he can make the weight.

Make sure that he's comfortable there. Make sure that his chin could possibly hold up being dehydrated. His chin can't hold up being hydrated. Of course it can't hold it. about being D. I did it? We're not here to be reasonable, aunt, because if you give him another fight, he might lose to like Asker Ascrov, and then no one's going to care. Well, if he loses to Asker Ascarov, now you have a good challenger for Figuerro. Now you've got a guy you can sell. So the same thing works. If he loses to Figuerreau and Garbrand now builds

a star off of the loss, he can do that with a contender. Now you have a title fight that people want to see a flyweight. Thank you for making my point, Jed. That's diminishing returns, though. If he loses to Ascarov, Ascarov gets some level of kick because of Garbrandt. But then if Ascarov goes and loses to Figurato, well, Figurato is not really getting an extra juice from that. You've got to go direct. The transitive property doesn't work for Star Building. It's got to be one after the other. So Joe Rogan's not going to scream that Asker Ascarov knocked out Cody Garbrandt.

Joe Rogan's going to scream anything. Joe Rogan would have screamed about Ed and Harold Mearshard. The man only knows one way to talk. Hey, you were screaming about Gerald Mershard and Ed Herman. Because it's a fight that deserves to be screamed about. It's a good fight. Yeah, let me, let me come back to you.

Maybe it's just me because I'm a storyline guy, but I think there's more juice in the Cody Garberat resurgence, Cody Garbread 2.0 story at 35. Like, he's got, he's got some momentum here. If he were to, if he would have fight like Marlon Marais in October and beat Marlon Marlon Marius in October and beat Marlon Mariahs, he's getting another title shot. Like, they want to fast track him back there.

It doesn't matter if he got starts three times in a row, four times in a row, five times in a row. He goes out there and wins two in a row. He's probably getting a title shot and skipping over people that deserve it more than him. That's a remarkable story to me. Is that better than dropping to 25 and being like a two division champion? Or, I mean, what do you do here?

I mean, obviously like he wants to, it feels kind of cheap to me. Let's, let me just throw that out there. It feels kind of cheap to be. him going down getting immediate title shot. I don't think, I think his career gets a much better jump. If he wins another fight, wins the title at 35, this would be like, holy shit, this guy just got knocked out three times in a row. And now he's the champion again, this is amazing.

Yeah, I'm with you on that, man. And I think, too, you have such an injection of star power in the band-in-weight division. Garbrandt fits so perfectly in that mix. Frankie Edgar is about to make his band-in-weight debut. You mean you wouldn't want to see Frankie Edgar versus Cody? The Garbrandt? I don't want to see how you Edgar get killed. Cap.

I just don't want to be Frank Edgar get killed. I have no idea. Do I look like a man who knows what that means? I know what it means if you put Frankie Edgar in a cage with Cody Garbrand. It doesn't mean good things for mine or your or anybody's feelings. It's just going to be sad. We don't need to watch that. Well, unfortunately, they're like friends and teammates now, so I don't know if that fight even happens at this point anyways.

He's with Mark Henry now. So, I mean, but still, that's another thing I want to add to. Mark Henry's coaching on Cody Garbrand, I want to see this play out the way it should. I don't want to throw him in in spots where he doesn't belong just yet. I want to see this version of Cody Garbrand really expand at Bannonweight and then we can go from that. He's a small guy. He'll probably be able to make 125 for most of his career, whatever's left of it. See, that seems insane to me.

Like, you should want to go now when you're young because, it's going to be a lot harder and it'll be a lot worse if he tries to do it after he gets knocked out like four more times to then cut to 125. Yeah, but that's the MMA. That's the MMA, you know, that's just regular. You know, you get MMA you washed up. Let's go drop a wicked class. That's what they do. It's all right.

Yeah. And it's, that's the thing. We don't, he could just do it right now. And then guess what, guys, if he beats Davis and Figaro,

let me just tell you, he's not going to defend the flyweight strap against asker, Raskarov, he's just going to immediately fight for the Bannonweight title. So you can still get the good Bannamweight title fight, but you also get a good flyweight title fight. The destruction of the division. The division has been destroyed for years at this point. It's still clinging on by life. Let's go ahead and put the little –

Drink the only champion. A champion the UFC wants will let them cling on to that more. A champion that they don't want is just going to be like, all right, well, we'll keep booking Davison against Brandon Moreno, but this is getting 4,000 pay-per-view buys. So I guess we're just going to let it go, man. They use it like DJ. You could put them as a co-main to a bigger fight

or as a title fight on a fight-night card. So there is value in having the champion that isn't necessarily the biggest draw all the time. Or if you get Gar-Brand, but if you get Gar-Brand as a champion, then they can just make $200,000 pay-per-view buys with him as the lead. I don't, you guys are just anti-fun right now.

How is this? This is such an anti-fun. Just talk. I don't understand it. I don't think the most fun outcome is Cody Garbrandt swinging bolos with Davidson Figuero. Come on. You're misguided man, Jed.

I like what I like. And I think everyone just likes the duck right hand, duck right hand until one man goes boom. Hey, Jay, can you do this? that motion one more time? That's it. How can I not give Jed the point? I don't even care what you said. How can I not give you the point?

Plus, I got to say, I have to hear, this can't stop now. I have to hear what happens with one more. So you're giving him the point. You're giving him the point essentially that belongs to me because you're entertained. All right. So Jed, Jed, just to let you know you. This is now, I'm playing with house money. Just so you know that.

Continue. I mean, result to results. I don't care if it's a bad sport decision if I keep the title. That's the history of the tale. The fact that I had a late bird. Oh, God. The fact that I hated that fight when this started and now I'm like, I hated a little bit less because because Jetson's swinging bolos

and started ducking his head and doing the thriller dance makes me want to hear more. So that's what we're going to do here. Nobody takes this fucking show seriously anyways. But we're going to head to the knock around one question. And I can't wait to hear. what both you have to say about this. But 60 seconds each to answer this question, neither of them have any idea what it is.

And after both competitors answer, we're going to go to the truck, and we're going to check in with Judge E. Casey Liden to render the final decision. Jed, since you are the champion, do you want to receive and go first or kick it off to Ant? Well, you know, I was going to be a gentleman and go first.

However, you've already given Ant three of the four prompts to lead off on. So let's just give him a fifth one. Let's do it. And your turn, sir. Why, thank you. Yes, things just falling apart, but okay. So, Ann, on September 12th, the year of our Lord 2020, we're going to have ourselves, we're going to have ourselves a boxing event headlined by an eight-round exhibition fight

between Mike Tyson and Roy Jones Jr. Two of the greatest of all time, two former world champions, $50 price tag. So my question to you, Ann, is to give a. a rating, a number between 1 and 10 of your excitement level for Tyson v. Jones Jr. For this fight, this event, and explain why we're going to put 60 seconds on the clock, which it's already there, and go. All right, so allow me to tap into my inner Jed Michoud here, but I'm going to rate this.

I'm excited on an 8 out of 1 to 10 because this is going to be a sloppy calamity. This is going to be so horribly bad, yet completely gratifying to every six sensibility that I've ever had, every sort of childhood trauma that I've deeply internalized and have not emotionally dealt with and it's impacted my life and my relationships. This is the moment where it all comes to a head. This is going to be an absolute ridiculous slot fest. Okay. If you think anybody at the CSAC, if you think that you can ban them from knocking each other out. Oh, you don't know what you're talking about. Somebody is going to lose years off their life.

Someone is going to lose consciousness. I'm going to feel very dirty when it's over with. I'm so going to watch it with a smile on my face. Perhaps a beer at my hand if I'm not sitting at Press Row forward. Man, I feel like this is the best matchup we have had on between the links because we have two totally differing opinions on like every single question we've had. Does it continue here, Jedmishu? One to ten. How excited are you? for Tyson versus Jones Jr. Because a part of me thinks this is right up your alley, but then there's like the other side of me

who thinks this is just the worst thing ever. 60 seconds on the clock, go. Of course it's up my alley, because it's also not up my alley. I contain multitudes, Mike. Thank you very much. Aunt really took my thunder. I did not think he was going to respond to this

with such enthusiasm. And in law school, they teach you that if you have the facts, argue the facts, if you have the law, argue the law. And if you have neither, just pound your hand on the table and get really excited. And so that's what I'm going to do because this fight is terrible and I am friggin' here for it. And is absolutely correct. You can't stop these men from knocking each other out.

Technically, they banned biting and boxing. And we saw that that doesn't really affect people either. So this is going to be a barnyard explosion of excitement and delight. It is going to cost $50 that I will happily give them. I will enjoy it with not just one beer, but probably many, and I'm going to make a terrible fool of myself. It's probably my favorite fight since Kimbo Dada 3,000. That's really all I have to say. It is the Kimbo Dada boxing, and that's the best MMA fight of all time, so how is this not miraculous?

God. I end the show with tears in my eyes after those two answers because they were both brilliant. Casey, last week was easy for you. All right, this is going to be tough for you. This probably sucks to be you. So we go to the judge, we go to the truck. Casey Leiden, decision to be made. Who is the champ?

Casey, remember, ant hates Fador. Casey, remember, I live like 15 minutes from you. And hates Fador. Well, we have anti-Fador over here. We have enthusiasm of Jed. I really enjoyed the enthusiasm. Oh, boy. you know

when you when you made the comparison to Kimbo versus Dada 5K I think that put it over the top so I'm going to go up and still yeah mission

I knew it Casey I want to be clear I 100% knew that that was going to treat you I knew you said it too because of me you knew what I like The thing is I actually believe that but I also knew that you were with me

and loving that fight I'm on the way I'll beat in about 15 me. Hey, I've Sparty. You got about 30 seconds of good cardio. He's the Edmund Chabey in of South California. Ooh.

Oh, geez, Louise. Wow, despite having, like, very few positive things to say today, Jed Mishu is still the champion. And with that, no money, no titles. You get 30 seconds to talk about, whatever it is you want to talk about, good, bad, and different in the sport of M.A. Hey, look, a,

wins a win and if you have to win ugly uh i'll take it and sometimes that means not arguing the facts but just being louder than the other guy i had an advantage aunt has a sleeping child in his house and i was i was boisterous where he cannot be well fought but i am now a true champion having defended my title and again i'm a fighting champion i take on all comers so next week bring it on Wow, and Ants, I'm going to give you some time as well. That was my favorite episode thus far between the two of you guys. I think it was the best matched fight or competitive competition here on Between the Links history.

No doubt about that. This is better than Jed and AK in the Battle of Good versus Evil. This is just some good shatter. What do you want to say? The floor is yours. I do want to say that despite my fado or slander on this show, I won this show under pride rules. So let that be known.

Jed was a great competitor, but he's going to have nightmares about me now. I'm coming. I'm coming for the crown. And Jose, you can get this work, too. Just let you know that. That friendly hair ain't going to save you forever, buddy. There are people lining up that want to take on Jose. I love that.

Aaron Bronset is another one that people want to line up and take on too. Oh, Aaron can get this work too. Jed, do you have a call? Is there anybody you want to go up against? Or is this John Cena as the U.S. champion, just calling out anybody who comes through the curtain. here. Champions don't call out people. That is why, who am I calling out? I'll call out Connor McGregor. Get him on here. I'll give him the business. But other than that, no, like, what? You come at me. I'm the king. Come at the king. And if you come at the king, you best not miss.

And very close, but you did miss. Paper chip. All right. So, listen, media members, if you watch the show and you want to call out Jed. I'm sure it's going to have to be some sort of a special call out here. Maybe you talk about how much you dislike Fador or think he's overrated. Whatever you think, whatever can ring Jed's bells. Go ahead and do so, and we'll share it and go crazy with it because we get a fine opponents. And Anne's definitely coming back on this program. Open door for you, sir. But this is fun. Thank you all so much for listening. Thank you to Casey Liden for judging and producing. Big shout to Esther Lynn on the graphics. It's in the intro for Ant Walker. Jed Mishu are champion. I am Mike Heck.

Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back once again next week, Between the Links. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck, brought to you by MMA Fighting,

a production of Vox Media. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.