MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 11 | Stipe Miocic vs. Daniel Cormier 3, What’s Next For Michael Chandler

Episode Date: August 11, 2020

Check out episode 11 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jose Youngs and Alex K. Lee as they give their takes on which three fighters had the best performances from this past weekend’s UFC Vegas 6 and Bellator 243 events. In addition, the panel discusses who Michael Chandler should fight next now that he is a free agent—and where he will ultimately land—where the UFC 252 heavyweight championship main event between Stipe Miocic and Daniel Cormier ranks on the all-time title fight list, give their grades on Saturday night’s event overall on paper, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links, your host, Mike. Thank you once again to the legend Esther Lynn for that terrific introduction. Welcome to all of you to a brand new edition of Between the Links on M-AFighting.com. A lot to discuss, as always. UFC Vegas 6 and Bellator 243 are in the books. UFC 252 is coming up on Saturday night, headline by Steepa Miocches. defending his heavyweight title against Daniel Cormier in the final fight of DC's career.

I truly cannot wait for that matchup. And this week, we have a little bit of a change to the lineup. Our defending champion Jed Michoud is in the middle of a storm center as we record. And he lost power and he lost internet. So we have ourselves a short notice interim title matchup between two former between the links champions. And the winner will go on to face Jed next week on the program. So let us introduce the participants first. Thus far, the longest reigning BTL champion of all time.

He is going to attempt to thwart the current streak of our champion with the victory this week and start a new reign of his own from MMAFighting.com. Hosted the A-Side live chat, Mr. Jose Youngs. Welcome back, sir. Now, let's get something straight. Jed was in a middle of a storm and he lost internet, what, 10 minutes before we were supposed to go live? You can pretend there's a storm in Atlanta all you want. but we know like an act of God would literally be the only thing that could possibly save him from what was coming.

So good excuse, but he can pretend all he wants, but we know what's really happening. Instead, Jed needs to go buy some actual fitting clothes so he doesn't look all frumpy on camera. And then he can come challenge me for my title. Wow. How about that? And taking on Jose, and I'm kind of rooting for Jose right now, just see how Jed would respond to that. I'm not going to lie, but it will not deter how I scored this contest at all. We have another former defending champion, the co-host of On to the next one.

He is all over the place these days. The Prince of Positivity himself from M.AFighting.com, Mr. Alex K. Lee. How are you, sir? Thank you for stepping in on minutes notice. This is probably throwing you off slightly. I cannot speak to the veracity of my sometimes collaborators claim at Jedmishu, but I am here to defend his honor on short notice. I made the weight.

It was not easy. I did it the Derek Lewis way. I took a big poop. And I made it. So I am eligible to win the title. I am on championship weight. I am as prepared as I can be. Anyone who knows me, I like to be prepared for things.

So we'll see where this goes. I make no guarantees. But I will put up a scrap. And I will cheat a little bit also as Jed would. Well, if you made weight, that means you can win a bonus as well. So how about that? And this is what we call a second. in our business because we're going to kick things off talking about bonuses because we talked about which card was better on paper on last week's show between UFC Vegas 6 and Bellator 243.

You know, now let's take a piece of those events and we'll see who stood out in a fun weekend of combat sports. So the UFC, as you guys all know who are watching this right now, fighters will get awarded performance bonuses based on how well they perform in the Octagon. We saw four fighters receiving extra 50 Gs on Saturday night. Darren Stewart, Kevin Holland, Gavin Tucker, and Andrew Sanchez all got bonuses. So I thought this week, let's give out some BTL weekend performance bonuses. I mean, why not, right? So Jose, we will start with you since you would have won the random draw against Jed. Taking a look at Bellator 24.

And a real fight. There you go. But taking a look at the Bellator card in UFC Vegas 6, the performances, the aftermath, et cetera. if you could give three performance bonuses based on those two cards, who would get him and why? Well, all three would be to Bellator.

And there were some great fights in the UFC. I was a big fan of Darren Stewart's win me and him. Our choice of music is very in line with one another. So it's hard for me to skip over him, and similar to Derek Lewis. But it's hard not to mention Michael Chandler. He's going into free agency. I think he's the second,

maybe third greatest, Bellator fighter of all time. I think it's Patricio Pitbull is easily number one. Champ, Champ has the KO win over Chandler. And then I think it's between Chandler and Lima number two. It's going to go into free agency. It's rare we get these moments in MMA nowadays where we have such a in-demand fighter that becomes a free agent still in the prime of his career coming off the biggest win of his career. Like yes, it was for a championship.

But he K-O'd Benson-Henderson, not T-KO, not submitted. He K-Oed him. He left him face down. on the canvas in the first round. So to say that he needed that win entering free agency to really demand the biggest piece of the pie would be an understanding. He did that with flying colors. A great post fight interview. He even talked Connor McGregor talks. He's going to field all he's going to field all offers specifically with his family in mind. He of course has the adopted son, which he's very much in love with as he said over and over and over in the interview.

So you got to mention him. You got to mention Valerie Lareda, who if you just look at our YouTube numbers, her post fight press conference is dwarfed pretty much everyone. Got it got her TKO win or KO win, I think, or KO win, not even TKO KO win. In a first fight in a very long time, everyone knows how she marks yourself on Instagram. And I don't personally care how she marks yourself one way or another. She could post 50 photos a day or no photos of day, and I wouldn't really care. I'm strictly speaking on her fighting ability. I think she's a phenomenal fighter.

She's not quite there yet. I'd like to see you get the MVP treatment, but not as long. and maybe eventually give her a bump up in competition. But then her post fight interview where she said that, she was visibly shaking. And she was like, like even, uh, Sajar, Eubanks was like why does she seem like she's out of breath during this press conference?

And it was because she was so visibly angry at her opponent for what she said. She was demoralizing the sport. And her response was, well, I just waited my time and then destroyed your face and then demoralized your face. So look at all the Instagram post she wants, all the Twitter post, all of the dance she wants to do. When it comes to it, she just beat the soul of her opponent, destroyed her, and then talked all kinds of greasiness, gave a shout out to Horamadval, dwarfed all numbers in terms of

view count. So got to give her a shout out. And then Sabahamasi is going to be my last one. Lebanese fighter who said he was going to donate, who's going to auction off his fight kit and give all proceeds to help aid the tragedy in Lebanon. So may not be the biggest name. I did get the win over Curtis Millinder, who's a former UFC, both former. are UFC fighters. So you have to give a shout

to him. Dustin Porreier gave him a shout out because of course he has the good fight foundation. He does something similar. So two great performances and two great post-fight prize corners and then one fighter down for the cost to support an absolutely horrific tragedy overseas. All right,

A.K., so Jose is going with Chandler, Lareda, and Heineken's biggest fan, Sabahomasi. So, AK, what say you? We have two of it. He was from. Jose went with a hat trick with Bellator. What are your three performance winning bonuses of this weekend? I've got to spread the love a little bit here.

And I will say it pains me to leave Lareda off my list because Lareda, I think, really stepped up to the plate of that finish. And did, as I have been, I think, saying all weekend, the best post-fight dance in MMA history. It's not a very high bar. Valentina Shepchenko's great, of course. Ryan Jembo, shout-outs, R.P. Ryan Jemo. Sourginio Morais had a great dance once upon time, which I can't even describe.

But I think anyone who knows what I'm talking about will remember. she hit that dance so well i almost want to put in the list but i have to leave her off just for now because i do want to spread the love number one i don't think i know if we were ranking them but i'm going going to rank them number one michael chanler i cannot argue that's a huge performance to have heading into free agency the first guy to finish benson henderson in six years six years and he put him out in a round i mean that is like that is nuts and again i know uh you know benson his name might not have the cachet that it had i don't know what for two or two or three years ago, but he's, I think he was coming on on a four-fight win streak.

He is a top lightweight in Bellator. He's a tough out for anyone. Again, even the fights he lost against, like, Andrew Koreskov, a bigger fighter, he went to a decision. He didn't, he wasn't finished. So for Chandler to do that and just add to his Belator legacy was huge. And again, now he can take this and either get a bigger contract with Belator, go to the UFC as so many people want to do. Go to the PFL, which is certainly possible.

Go to one for that Eddie Alvarez rematch. That has, he has to be for me, the number one performer of the weekend. Number two, people aren't going to like this because the guy I missed weight, but I'm so in on the whole B'Neill Darius experience. Four straight finishes now, five straight wins. I hated that he missed weight. I think we all know that's like the first thing you have to do as a fighter. That's your job. But he's never done it before.

No excuses. He didn't make any. He wanted to get a post-fight bonus just so he could give it to his opponent, which was slick. And the highlight itself, it's going to be one of the knockouts of the year. You know, the UFC can recognize it as a performance of the night or not. The knockout is sensational. So if you haven't seen it, spinning back fist, and again, four straight finishes.

He's suddenly become this jiu-jitsu master. He's suddenly become this knockout artist, but it's also still an insane ground threat. And I hope he does get a top 10 opponents soon, and they don't necessarily penalize them that much for missing weight. My third, you know, like you said, two events. I'm going to cheat a little bit. I'm going to cheat in multiple ways because this, again,

shout out as Jed Mashu. This is what he would do. Go outside the lines here. And he would also shout out Risen, which happened technically this morning in Japan. So it was the weekend over there, been the morning over here. Kai Asakura finally. finally winning that bantamweight title.

He's kind of like been this blue chipper 135er in Risen for so long. I mean, he smoked Horaguchi and then he took out Okosasaki and another veteran. And then the thought was that he would fight him inel Cape and win the title and Risen would have the star. And Monell Cape took him out. So a little bump in the road there. But they matched him up for this show for Risen's second show at the weekend. They returned to activity since COVID-19 started and took out Haramasu Ukecubo with a very exciting soccer kickail. So I'll give him my third star for the week.

And yeah, I just spread the love a little bit. But Michael Chandler, for sure, number one, big time. Let's sort of add a wrinkle to this whole thing, AK, when we talk about leaps and stocks rising in this sport, you know, you can go with rising as well. However you want to do it. This is your show here. Which fighter stock took the biggest leap over these last few days? Like, from where they were heading in to where they are right now in this fast-moving sport where things changed so rapidly, who had the highest-stress? jump in your opinion. Oh man, well, this is where I'm going to shout out Lareda. I think

I think she had the most attention she's ever had on one of her fights. So there was a lot of eyeballs in there and a lot of people waiting to see her go splat, you know, fall on her face, make fun of this. So, you know, whatever Instagram, you know, supposedly want to be fighter who's just an Instagram model. And, you know, it wasn't the prettiest fight like early on. I think I saw a lot of commentary on Twitter like, oh, she looks so tentative. And then I'm like, it's her, this is her third, third pro fight, second, third? What do people want her to look like? Like, I don't understand. And she gave them the highlight real knockout there. looking for. And again, like I said, she did great. I think in a lot of the interviews leading up to it,

as Jose pointed out, her post-fight stuff was great. She came off as very genuine. I know a lot of people are going to question her public persona, as you should be with any celebrity, I suppose, but she came off as very genuine. Again, the dance came just was fire. And it really, one of my favorite parts was, I think one of the guys was coming over to check on her, like a medic. And then she started doing the dance. He's like, okay, I'm just going to back away for now. So it wasn't like this rehearsed thing. it like really kind of like there's these awkward moments, but those are the kind of the best moments we get in MMA sometimes. So I would say her stock rose a lot.

I mean, a lot of haters, but I think a lot more supporters too after this weekend. What do you think, Jose? Because I mean, Lareda, I mean, all things consider, Lareda is still only 3 and O. She got a lot of attention, of course. She is who she is on social media and people either love it or hate it. There's not a lot of gray area with Lareda,

but there were, you know, some people up a few notches, some fighters who performed very well on Saturday and got a lot of shine. Do you agree that Lareda stock rose the most? there's somebody else that sticks out to you? There's someone else that sticks out of my mind because we can talk about who stands out the most and who stock rose and this and that in the eyes of the fan. There is one name that matters in how that person views you. And that is Dana White.

And I tell you what, he is a big Kevin Holland fan after this weekend. Was supposed to fight obviously, Trevin Giles fell apart. Immediately turned around, stayed in Vegas, took another fight the week after, tried to fight Ed Herman. You know, you know Dana White loves fighters. that it'll be like, my opponent fell out. I'll fight Ed Herman on 30 seconds notice. Even in the virtual media scrum,

he's like, you give me two hours notice. I'll fight Jagu Santos again at Light Heavyweight. So like, you know Dana White loves that. Says he wants to rebook him again. He has already cut weight twice. He's had one fight fall out. He's fought in Jacksonville. Has one fight fought out.

Fights again a week later. Now Dana White's already talking about booking him again. So we could talk about Valor Ler Lerator being a big deal in the eyes of the fans and having great performance and shutting up critics. But Dana White loves. Kevin Holland right now. And if you're Kevin Holland, that's the only thing that should matter. So I think in terms of who stock actually rose, we saw Kevin Holland's rise this weekend. All right. We are off to a good start. The first point of this BTL interim title bow will go to

Alex K Lee. He is on the board. But a hell of a, hell of a first round. I'm getting excited. We're 25% into the show. No overtraining, Mike. It's been an issue with me in the past. People know I go hard. I go hard in the gym. I always say practice is the real game. So maybe this is going to work for me now. See, there you go. Just come in short notice. You don't have to overthink anything. But let's head to our next question.

Both of you mentioned it, sang his praises and deservedly so. Michael Chandler officially is a free agent. He's got a ton of momentum behind him after knocking out Benson Henderson in the first round of Friday night's Bellator 243 main event. And with that, I love this kind of stuff because conversation has been sparked in a big way about matchups we could see from Mr. Chandler. now that he has all these different options ahead of him. So AK, we will begin with you. And look, I know we touched on this on the post-fight show on Saturday, but a couple of days have passed since then.

But let's really get into this thing. What would be the best fight, in your opinion, for Michael Chandler next? Whether he stays in Bellator, goes off to the UFC, go somewhere else, what would you put together if you had the mighty pen and why? Like you said, we mentioned it post-fight. I ended up talking about a little bit on our podcast, because one of the names from the UFC show, I thought would be a good matchup for him.

And I'm going to mention that name again. But let me preface my answer first by saying, look, I could give you some sexy answer, okay? I could give you some sexy answer that everyone was like some dream match that people want to see in the UFC. Oh, Conner McGregor, you know, to try and win this round. But I may give up this round just so I can push my personal choice. I think Michael Chandler should come to the UFC and get a,

this is the comparison we made on the post show on Saturday. We said, what would be the equivalent of when, you know, Justin Gachie came over and they matched him up with Michael Johnson. What's that level of opponent? What would that level opponent be for Michael Chandler? I think Benile Darius is that guy. I think he's in that 10 to 15 range. I think stylistically, they would match up so well.

They're both super well-rounded. They're both fight finishers. I know it doesn't have a lot of cachet. But again, I will not lie to America. This is what I think could happen. This is a matchup that I like. There's a lot of options. Look, but I want to see him win one fight first.

The UFC is pretty good about not throwing. going new signings into the fire. Who is, who does Eddie Alvarez's first upon? I'm going to mess this up. Soroni, right? Yeah, he's pretty good. But it's tough.

But Soroni as a tough matchup, but not a top, I'm not a top five guy, right? Someone definitely was more of a name than Darry. So Darry should probably be in between sort of Michael Johnson's Soroni range. I think he's a little more well known than Michael Johnson, definitely not as well known as Soroni. But I put Darius in there,

and I think that's what they should do with Chandler. Don't go for that big money matchup right away. You don't need that match with someone respectable. So someone's been looking for a name opponent, but again, kind of, tripped up with his weight thing, so maybe don't get someone on the rankings right now. And have him be the guy, have him be the guy to test Chandler and, you know, Daniel White's little, how good is this bell to our guy really, you know, and Chandler can show him.

Or Darayuette will show him and get himself a top five guy. Jose, what do you think? Has your stance changed on Saturday? No, and for I don't understand why AK is saying, oh, don't throw him in there with the wolves and then compared him to Donald Soroni. You just said Benile Daryuz is riding a four-fight win streak and all stopages. What win streak was Donald Seroni on when he fought? Alvarez. Four fight win streak. Same exact

scenario. He was also, and then he fought like five more times and then won them all. And then eventually got starts by Rafael Dosanyo. So I want to give Michael Chandler someone being right out of the gate. I don't want, he's on the wrong side of 30. He doesn't need to build up fight. Benio there.

He's on the wrong side 30. I don't want to see those two fight right now. I want to see Michael Chandler fight someone like Anthony Pettis, Charles Olivera, Dan Hooker, one of those guys. Selfishly, I would love the Anthony Pettus fight. They must have been championed simultaneously. at one point in their career, at least in the top two, top three,

a lightweight at one point. So I think that's one of those fights that would be, Anthony Pettis has said he's down to go to 150, 170, he's even talking about fighting Anderson-Silva. I'm not even going to entertain that right now. If Anthony Pettis wants to go to 155 again, he's not going to fight for the title anytime soon, Michael Chandler needs a guy that's not going to fight for the title anytime soon.

So if there is a bump in the road, he at least loses to a high-level competitor. And the U.S. He's like, oh, look, remember what happened to Hector Lombard? He loses the Tim Bosh right away, all of a sudden, it's like, oh, is Hector Lombard even really that good? I want to see him fight someone like Anthony Petesu isn't going to fight for the title anytime soon, but it's still a big name, an exciting stylistic matchup in a stack division,

or if you want to try to get him on the path to Tyler away, Charles Olivera deserves a big name. I'm not even looking this as a way like, oh, Michael Chandler gets to fight a big name in Charles Oliva. I'm viewing this as Charles Oliverer gets a big name in Michael Chandler. No one in the top five is going to fight. Charles Oliver right now. Unless Dan Hooker, wants to throw down with him out, but I don't know how if he wants to make that trip all the way to America.

Again, I guess they could throw that on Fight Island in a main event. But I want Michael Chandler thrown into the wolves right away. Top five, top six guy or former champion Anthony Pettis. I don't want a slow burn. When two, throw them in for a title fight. That's my opinion. We love these conversations because we get to throw out all these different options.

But of course, there is a difference between what we would like to see in what actually happens, right? Like sometimes these things line up perfectly, but more times than not, it is the complete opposite of what we could have possibly expected. So we're going to take a stab at some realism, what we think will actually happen here. So when it gets to Decision Day from Michael Chandler and he lets the world know what organization he will be competing and moving forward, Jose, will he stay in Bellator?

Will he go to the UFC? Will he go to one? Maybe he takes a stab at the wonderful world, a bare knuckle. knows at this point. Jose, where do you think if you had like $20 of supplemental income, what would you put that $20 down on where he actually ends up after all of this? That is a good question. I think my gut says Bellator just because he, I'm sure Bellator is going to open the backup the Brinks truck form. I know he wants that rematch with Patricio Pitbull, but I want him to go to the UFC. Outside of the pit bull fight, there's nothing else for

Michael Chandler to really prove in Bellator. So I want to see, it's like you and I, grew up watching, and maybe AK, we grew up in Red Sox country where it back in the day when the American League and National League only played Interleague, what, like three weeks a year, maybe two weeks a year. And the All-Star game was that much more exciting because you get these matchups like Mark McGuire versus Page of Martinez, which you would never see ever in the regular season. Yes, it's only at least one at bat. And yes, Pedro is going to win every single time. But you get those fun matchups that you never get to see. And I want to see Michael Chandler fight the Donald Soronis, the Justin Gage's, the Oliva.

the hookers, the Porreys. Like Michael Chandlerle versus Dustin Poirier is phenomenal. And I'll watch that fight every day of the week. But my guts is Bellator. I think he's a loyal guy. I think they're going to offer him a lot of money. The UFC's made a lot of money, but they don't really seem like they're going to open the checkbook for fighters like

John Jones, Mazvidal, McGregor, so who and all the stuff? I can't imagine that's going to change for a free agent like Michael Chandler. But I want to see him in UFC. My guts is Bellator. A.K. Michael Chandler, I don't know if you ever interviewed him. but every time I've talked to him, yeah, money's part of it. I mean, he has a family now, so it means more than it has since like the last time I talked to him.

But Michael Chandler is a competitive guy. That guy wants all the smoke, but now he's got a family to think about. So what do you think happens here? Does he stay in Bellator? Does he move on to quote unquote greener pastures? How do you think this ultimately plays out? I'll be honest. I was just, as I was listening to Jose, I was just looking at this list of guys, the lightweight division.

there's just not a lot of fights left for him there. Like I said, maybe a Pitbull rematch. I mean, Miles Jury just won in the same card. I can't imagine anyone wanted to see that fight. Of course, there is the Brent Premis trilogy, you know, so much unfinished business that needs to be resolved there. They're one and one technically. Gosh, I just don't see how we can go back. I mean, again, you're right, money is number one.

You know, if it's about the money, I'm sure Bell Dor can make a very good offer. It's home, you know, it's the place he knows. It's always very tempting. But I mean, if you really just wanted money, he could go to PFL, right? He'd clean that place up, probably. I'd like to see him and him and Nate and Schulte maybe. So what do I think is going to happen? I do think he's going to make the EOSC move.

I do think we'll see the EOC move. I was a little skeptical. I think after Saturday, I think I was kind of of the camp like, yeah, I mean, he has a lot of negotiating power. Staying back would make sense for a new contract. But I just, I cannot see who he would fight if he went back other than rematches and guys who have so much more to gain from fighting him than he has from beating them. So I think he's.

going to make that move to DOC. The other option, of course, is the one, one for a rematch with Eddie Alvarez, but again, that seems like a one-fight idea. And I don't know if he has any interest in going over there. So I'll take the safe bet here and say, yeah, I think the UFC is going to happen. Imagine if this is five years ago, like this conversation, it would be so insane. I mean, he's still very good. I mean, he's quietly won like 11 out of 13.

The premise loss is kind of a weird one. The pit bull one, it is what it is. But he's still really, really strong. He's still winning fights and he's still finishing guys at a pretty ferocious pace. So the options are a plenty for the former three-time Bellator Lightweight Champion with that. Oh, I'm crazy. I want to add something. Yeah.

Am I crazy? I swear he's, Chandler said in an interview that if he really, I may even think of someone else, I swear he said that he could make a 145 if he really like focused on. Am I crazy? Did this not happen? I don't know. Is this a fee between my head? I like, I swear.

He is a thick. 155. I think height wise, I think that's why I'm thinking of, but yeah, he's not a skinny. He's not a height wise. He for sure fits the 145 mole. It'd be like if like technically Volcanovsky's probably the same height for a one. Yeah, yeah. He's not making 135 anytime soon. And if he could somehow do it, that's the only way I think that it really, really, really makes sense to 145. But I mean, he's 34 now at this point. I don't know if he would want to put himself something like that. Right. And even the Pitbull rematch, Pip Bulls tied up with that featherweight Grand Prix. so that would still be a ways away

before he gets to rematch that unless he wants to fight Patricie Pitbull again. I like AK, just trying to get in there, one last second, try to sway the point away. Right after the bell, right after the bell. Right after the bell. But the point is going to go to

Jose. I stand by Darius. I've chosen this hill. Darius Chandler, I have chosen this hill to die on and I don't care of it cost me around. This is like you and booking Joanne Calderwood versus Antonita Shevchenko.

That fight, at least the derrish one makes sense. The Shevchenko one makes no sense at all. Look, Mike, I'm still getting over the loss of Nealon Neal. Shout-Untz. I hope everything's all right with him. But I'm very sad that we looks like we have lost the Neil-on-Neil matchup for now. But yeah, hopefully everything's okay with Jeff Neal. Absolutely.

So let's head to our third question of the program. UFC 252 is coming up on Saturday. And at the top of the bill, Steep A Mietchich defends his heavyweight title against Daniel Kormier, The trilogy fight is finally here, and it's also the final fight of Daniel Cormier's career, potentially. But this is being built correctly, in my opinion. The biggest heavyweight title fight of all time, the battle for the greatest heavyweight of all time in the UFC. I love everything about this fight.

So, Jose, we begin with you. While many believe this is the biggest heavyweight title fight of all time, where does this fight rank in terms of biggest UFC title fights of all time across the board? UFC heavyweight or just MMA heavyweight? heavyweight. UFC title fights? I would, in terms of like anticipation, um, the, the, the, the, the largeness of it. And any division you're saying, all, all, oh, yeah, across the board. Oh, across the board. Yeah. Foo, I don't, I wouldn't put this top five in terms of anticipation. I think the lack of fans and the lack of media and everything is really just sucking away the, the, the energy entering this rubber matching. It's a, it is like, you said it. Whoever wins this should be the greatest UFC heavyweight of all

time, if not the greatest MMA heavyweight of all time. But I just feel like there is something missing. And it's like looking back, the last great trilogy we had for the UFC championship was JDS Kane. And the third one of that felt like a big, big deal. And I think it also has to do like the last fight was a year ago. Before that, it was so it was like July 2018, August 2019, August 2020. So they're fighting like once a year. It's something like that.

And like when Kane and JDS threw down, they took fights in between and then basically cemented themselves. not only cementing themselves, like, violent. Like, remember what Kane did to Bigfoot? Remember what JDS did to Mark Hunt? Like, they earned that rematch against the guy. So I still think in terms of anticipation, the rubber match between JDS, Kane, nothing tops that in terms of the heavyweight division. But in terms of title fights, I don't even think this might be top five.

Like, obviously, Connor Habeb is a big one. I honestly was more excited for Izzy Robert Whitaker because that was interim champ versus champ. You got the New Zealand versus Australia, 185, both in the prime of their career. obviously Aldo McGregor. So I do not disagree with you that the winner of this should be the greatest UFC slash MMA heavyweight,

but I feel like there is just something missing. I know they're doing the big press conference this week, but the lack of fans is weird, the lack of an international, like if this is an international fight week with the fans surrounding everyone, it might be a different story. Even their second fight,

they coached Toffs of those least some goofiness between them. But even the second one, I was at, neither one really seemed interested in talking about the other one. Daniel Cormer kept talking about John Jones. Steve Pages kept saying, I just want to fight Daniel. I just want to fight Daniel. I don't care if it's the title.

Well, if he doesn't care if it's for the title, then why should we? So there's something missing. So I wouldn't even put this top five most anticipated title fights across the board in UFC history. Okay. A.K. you are the Prince of Positivity.

Are you a little more positive with this one? I am, but I also agree. It's, I just, you know, by the nature of their personalities, it really is hard to say that Miochich,

Cormier 3 is this enormous prize fight. And that is even a classic feud. It almost doesn't feel like a feud. It's just not personal. They're both so nice. The most we've got out of is like maybe, I don't even think they've kind of went out on the eye poking thing too much.

And then now I think Corme is trying to sell this. Oh, he thought the last fight was a fluke angle. But I don't know if he really believes that. It just feels like fight building. Skill-wise, it's a great fight. But again, as we know, that is not what makes necessarily a memorable legendary prize fight, unfortunately.

I mean, we'll know after, you know, if it's an all-time war, then we have to reappraise this question. But if we're talking pre-fight anticipation, I mean, you have like two probably Connor Gregors in there in the top five, him and Habib and him and Josealdo. I think GSP, BJ Penn would be in there. It just needed room to breathe. You know, it really just needed room to breathe. You can certainly have, I suppose, in combat sports, back-to-back-to-back fights.

I'm only thinking of like Mickey Ward or Toro Gadi. That's about it that they fought like literally three straight times. And that was, you know, but it's going to look weird on Miotich's record to see that he just, it's just Cormier, Cormier, Cormier. And yet somehow there, it doesn't feel like it's escalating. I don't know. It just doesn't feel like there's that build there. So I don't think anyone doesn't think it's not going to be a great fight. I don't think anyone is dismissing the whole, the storyline of, you know, whoever wins could be is probably the greatest U.C.

heavyweight in the company's history. I don't think anyone's dismissing the fact that this is the last time that very likely we will get to see the young, may fight. This could be the cap around like one of the best emma curses he's ever seen. But the matchup itself just does not have that extra level of heat, you know, that you like to see in what you would call a trilogy about. So people want to see it for sure, but I can't imagine it having that mainstream sort of extra appeal. I just don't know if I can sell this to someone who let's say they never heard of

both guys, even if I kind of gave them a quick show, showed them, you know, one of Esther and Casey's, you know, videos, the timeline videos. I don't know if that would sell it. I really don't know. So I'm not in the top five for I would say not one of the all-time most anticipated title fights. I think the big story outside of the actual fight itself is the fact that it is D.C.'s last fight. So I feel like all the emphasis of this fight is on him. And I feel like in a weird way, Steepa is in a win-win situation.

Like if he wins the fight, he retires D.C. He's still a champion, goes and fights Francis and Ganu in that rematch. And if he loses, he's probably still going to fight for the belt again anyways. So, yeah, it takes a little bit of a hit on his record and his legacy. and he loses the trilogy to DC. But overall, he's probably getting right back to a title fight. So I wonder how he approaches it from that aspect. But, A.K., let me go back to you because DC has been very open about this being it for him.

But we've heard him say this before. And we've heard this many times before in our sport from other fighters. And the opposite happens. So let me ask you, do you believe that win-l loser draw this Saturday will be the last time we see DC in an octagon competing? or do you think there is something else out there for him that might entice him to stick around? I mean, I could see him, you know, 15 years from now doing like a Mike Tyson, Roy Jones Jr. as some sort of wrestling exhibition.

Him and Brock Lesnar, you know, finally do a wrestling exhibition when they're in their 50, something like that, live on pay-per-view, 49-99, only in America. But no, is this his last time competing for real, his last actual professional fight that, Matt, yes. I do think he's done. That's not to say that there aren't options. John Jones always going to be looming. There's always some crazy scenario where John Jones comes out of the woodwork and they set up a third fight for whatever reason.

People would watch. And probably, as kind of to play out the base of this question, would probably be more anticipated than any of the Steve Miochich, Daniel Gorme-Av fight. So that's why you can't say it's not going to happen. But no, I do think he is honest. I think he's done. He's already well past his due date. I think we all remember. I think it was March of last year where he was like, he'd said that date for himself and when he turned 40.

So now he's already over that. It's a shame because I think we know he'd still be competitive against any heavyweight in the top 10, any light heavyweight in the top 10. But that's really not how prize fighting works. You don't hang around or you shouldn't hang around. I just say even if you know you could beat the number three, number four, number five guy. Once you make it to one, it's one or none. And that's kind of where he is mentally. So I think that this is it for Daniel Corby on Saturday, winner loose.

Jose? Yeah, I would have to say so. I think there's only three names that would get him out of retirement. Two of them will never happen. and that is Brock Lesnar Fador. I mean, Daniel Cormney, remember back in the day, he was called the Black Fadour in the Strike Force run,

and he himself said that he considers him and Kane to be the two best heavyweights ever. And then the third one would be, Brock was, I don't think that fight's ever going to happen. Brock's never going to fight on a pay-per-view in the ESPN era in front of nobody in Las Vegas in that tiny octagon. And then the third one, of course,

would be John Jones at heavyweight. I just don't think, unless the UFC, again, backs the Brinks truck, multiple Brinks trucks back. I don't think John Jones fights anytime soon. And if John Jones doesn't fight anytime soon, and it's not a heavyweight, then Daniel Kornemey has no reason to come back.

So that one is maybe, I'll give it a 30% chance of ever happening. But in terms of Daniel's career, I think Saturday is it. I think the only one that would bring him back would be John Jones. And even then, I don't think the UFC and John are on the best of terms right now.

So I don't think the UFC is going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I think they really want that style bender. John Jones fight at Light Heavyweight in 2021 before they won a third fight with DC and John Jones at heavyweight. All right, Jose, let me just bring this back one more time because I haven't seen a prop bet for this, but I have a feeling that if it hasn't come out, it will come out before Saturday. After this fight, win or lose for Daniel Cormier, lays down the gloves, tells Joe Rogan, thanks, buddy, can't wait to commentate with you in the future. When John Jones hits Twitter

and responds to it all. Is this going to be a respectful tweet, or is this going to be a little bit of a dig to try to get him out for one more? I think it depends on what happens in the fight because, I mean, we've seen the respectful John Jones when people retire or even when something bad, like when Alexander Guston retired,

John's put out a nice tweet, but then when when Gibson got submitted, he just did the googly eyes. And then when Daniel Cormay's father passed away, John Jones said something very nice. And then vice versa to when John Jones is, I think his mother passed away. Daniel Cormey said something nice. And even John Jones has said, like, I want there to be a point in our careers where we could

be cordial with one another and say like, because they're going to be linked forever. It's going to be like Holyfield Tyson. You can't talk about one without the other. And they do charity work together. John Jones even says, like, well, if Daniel can do this past 40, then why can't I? So you know, John Jones would, is, it respects Daniel at least some somewhat. And Daniel Cormer respects John Jones as his competitor, but he just doesn't like John. John Jones, the person for reasons that for reasons outside of the octagon that he has every

right to. So I think it'll be respectful nonetheless, especially if Daniel Corrmeier retires. If anything, I think he's going to praise Stipei more than he says anything about D.C. If Stipey wins. Because remember when Stipe beat D.C. last time, John Jones tweeted, Stipe is the greatest heavyweight ever. It wasn't even a dig at D.C. It was mostly like praising Stipe.

But I think we have to see what happens before I can even possibly comprehend what John Jones is going to. Because also, John Jones has been blocked on Twitter for reasons unbeknown to me. So I won't even be able to see it if it happens. AK, what do you think? I don't know if you're blocked from John Jones, his Twitter yet. But what say you? I'm not.

Not yet. No, look, we've seen John Jones turn on the nice guy switch and turn on the supposed heel switch, you know, whenever he wants to. Right now he's in very much, I think very charitable John Jones mode. He's been a little quiet. He's been speaking up about certain social issues, you know, So he hasn't really been too focused on what's been going on in the fighting world, which I think makes sense. He's because he's sort of, you know, he's kind of taking that stance that me and me and the UFC aren't really on the same page now.

Why am I going to talk about fighting when, you know, when I'm not fighting myself? So good policy for him to have. He will have to weigh in. I say have to. I mean, like, by the laws of MMA Twitter, he will have to weigh in either during or after Saturday's main event. And no, no, I do think it'll be something. Congratulations, Daniel, whatever, whatever, something that. It's probably sitting in his drafts right now.

And as Jose said, you know, hopefully he and D.C. can get along and it can at least get along. They don't have to be best friends. Much like Jose and I, you know, two strong personalities, two strong champions. And someday, someday when this whole MMA thing is over, I hope that you and I, you know, can actually hang out and get along. We don't have to be best friends. You know, our kids don't have to play together or anything like that. But I like to think we could at least, you know, go out of the comic store and you can, like, bore me with like some. Oh, your favorite graphic novel.

Like, anybody cares about that crap. And, you know, and we'll get along in that way. I think that'd be good. And then I'll dunk on you again. I don't even get it. But damn, you're committed to it. It started, like, so nice and friendly. And then AK went downhill a little bit,

and then Jose met him halfway up, and we collided again. I did the big glove tap. Big glove tap. I personally cannot wait for this fight on Saturday. Between the matchup, as everybody knows by now, I'm a big storyline guy. and this is a top-notch thing in terms of storylines, in my opinion. And as AK alluded to, let me give a plug to the incredible work from Casey Lydin and Esther Lin on the Steep A versus DC3.

Timeline piece, it is phenomenal. I highly recommend that you make it a point to watch that and get your knowledge on ahead of this fight on Saturday night since it is so well done. And speaking of points, point goes to Jose Young's. As we head into round number four, AK loves these positions. He loves to come out and even up the score. So let's get to it. Let's look at the rest of this UFC 252 slate. The main card has a lot of intriguing matchups.

A lot of people have the co-made events circled between Sean O'Malley and Marlon Cheeto Vera. A little quick plug for myself. I interviewed Cheeto Vera on what the heck last week. It is amazing. Vera is kind of terrifying, but calm at the same time. So go check that out. But as a whole, Alex K. Lee, looking at this entire. card on paper, if you were to give it a grade and you love giving grades, what are you giving UFC2 as a

whole and why? Well, let me just say my, this is where I think the short notice is starting to affect me. I think my cardio showed in round three, but I think I'm getting my second wind. It's okay. I kind of took that round off. I think I'm back now. Now, Mike, I'm glad you came to me first because I believe that you, what you're asking me is to once again introduce my gymnastic scoring system to the MMA world for anyone who may have missed it on one of our previous shows. So the way this works very quickly is there's a there's a there's a every card has potential you know has to has a potential score and and then you it starts and then you go up to that score it starts at zero once the night starts but then it works this way up to its potential score so for example the fight card that just

passed for a fight night i said that's cool that show could be a 9.5 so then starts at zero from the from the from the night starts and then from there tries to get up to that 9.5 sometimes these shows make it most of them don't there's no such thing is a perfect show i don't think though i'm sure fans will correct me there's been a lot of great shows in anime history but the scale also of course for pay-per-views is a little different so I'm going to say it has a lower potential score than the fight night show that just passed but it's a pay-per-view so it has to be a little bit higher so I think I think after all that preamble I will say this has a this has a degree of difficulty score Mike of 9.2 and I'll say I'll say why okay you've got a big main event at the top again we know we said it's not the most not those you know hyped main event but as far as competitive competitively at heavyweight, you can't get any better. These are the two best heavyweights in the world right now. So boom, right there, there's your quality headliner.

Sean O'Malley, getting his first, I believe his first, I believe his first, I did his first pay-per-view co-main event. And what a chance to shine for him, because he's getting an all-action fighter in Mal and Mullen Vera. And Vera also, a guy who is so overlooked that if he beat O'Malley and took Sam by that hype, the UFC might not like it, but I think fans would think it's very cool. So you've got that. JDS, Rosenstreek, big heavyweight fight.

Definitely going to end in a knockout, almost for sure. And then you've got compelling match. Dotson-Vajvili and Kalayao Kuchelab on the main card. So right there is good. And then also on the prelims, you have, you know, well-known names like Jim Miller and Felice Herrick. So you've got veterans. You've got a couple of a good strawweight contest.

It should be competitive, very well-matched. And then you also have the chance for prospects to shine like Christakis, Herbert Burns, and T.J. Brown, among others. Not to count out their opponents, but I'm just saying, I think, an A-side in some of these matches. So big names on the main card, big title fight at the top. Veterans in the prelims and up-and-comers getting their chance to show up on a, on, on what should be a very highly watched show. So 9.2, it could reach a 9.2 at the highest.

That is my pre-fight gymnastics degree of difficulty score. Jose, what do you think? Well, I'm going to compare it to the, like, recent paper views. And on paper, it's not as stacked. I'm looking back, like, 251 was that the three title fights had Homazvedal was a 250, had Amanda Nunes, which was the greatest female fight of all time, and the number one ranked fighter in the UFC four video game. Also had Sugar Sean, Aljo, Sanhagen,

just 249 was unreal. That was the Jacksonville card, another three-fight title fight. So I'm going to have to go bet 248 had Stylebender Romero. That fight was weird. So I'm going to compare this fight to 248, 247. It's right there. It's not the most stacked, but like in terms of the main event, it's pretty, it's pretty freaking unbelievable.

But like, that's kind of been the theme of like Cormier's and Stipe's. careers like they headline these fights like yeah two was it 241 was pretty awesome on paper but remember when they were the main and co-main in boston mike the rest of that card was real good for mma fans and mma media was not the best for getting people to tune in i like what was the third fight from the top was uh was cater and burgos which which ruled but those aren't the two biggest names especially at the time so i'll compare this to 247 248 247 and they're being pretty good. A lot of controversy at the end. 248 was bizarre because I had the greatest and worst title fights in UFC history. And I'm not even, that's a joke. I don't even think Stobander-Ramarrows,

the worst title fight ever. But again, Yawanna Wiley could be the greatest title fight ever. So I'll compare it to those two on paper. It has a lot of potential like AK said. It could very well hit a nine or 10. There's a lot of matchups that make for high level finishes. But I don't want to even, every time I try to predict a fight, especially like, because like since AK said JDS and Rosenststree, end in a knockout. It definitely won't end in a knockout, especially because he of his, of his phenomenal track record of cursing fights like Nikita Krylov and Johnny Walker, uh, in up in Vancouver, I believe that fight was. Uh, so yeah, I don't think it has potential, but I'm going to compare it to 247, 248. I think, uh, 49 50 and 51 to, uh, 249, 250, 250,

25, 25, 249, 250, 251, we're just better on paper, uh, all around. Ortega zombie is definitely happening. It is definitely, it hasn't even been booked. it, I guarantee it happens before the end of the year. Hope so. I think we all hope so. Let me go back to you, Jose, because the prelims are kind of interesting. In fact, there's some New England representation on this card. Parker Porter, who, by the way, in 2008 in Wilmington, Massachusetts was knocked out in 36

seconds by a young man by the name of John Bones Jones. How about that? That happens. But he's on the prelims taking on Chris Dostas, which would be fun. is there a prelim fight that kind of sticks out to you that could steal the show? Like, is there a Polo Reyes Dong Jun Kim type of prelim fight that could shine ever so brightly on Saturday night? Like, like just just steals the show off the time. I can't, I can't remember all in the fights off the top of my head.

I believe Jim Miller, Vince Bichel is on this card, if I'm not mistaken, that might be the featured pretty. So I have to be that. I mean, the rest, who else is on this? Like the Ashley Yoder fight, I think Philege is on this card. Herbert Burns. But like I said, like, I don't think. I don't think Yoder and Phileadio and Phileetian should win, but I don't think it's going to be like an insane war or insane stoppage. I think Herbert Burns is phenomenal enough that you could get a stoppage win and it won't be a back and forth war like Polaroz.

So I'm going to say Jim Miller and Pichelle. Pichel is great. I was at his loss to Gregor Lesby up in. I think it was where was that fight? Utica. Was that Utica in New York? My God, that's a bizarre time in my life. And then Jim Miller has like every single record in the UFC outside of all Donald Soloni's record.

So it has to be that. I think the rest of them are good fights, but in terms of why you're like what's going to steal the show, fighting in the night, anytime Jim Miller is in there. I mean, it's on the short list for some sort of bonus. Miller and Pichel, memory serves me correctly, they're both coming in defeating Roosevelt Roberts in their most recent fights. Right. Because I don't know if Pichel fought since then, did he? I do not know off the time I have, but I like, what was the name? From Hell, Vince From Hell, Pichel, I think that's an awesome nickname.

And then Jim Miller is the definition of just a blue-collar fighter who will fight anyone anytime anywhere. And he's oddly on that weird win streak. And all of a sudden, he might be in the top 10 again, which is just bizarre in 2020. I think it was like 2018 Shogun was like the same thing. So, but yeah, it has to be Jim Miller and Vince Michelle in terms of a potential fight of the night. On the prelims, that is. What do you think, A.K. I mean, this kind of question is right up your alley with your abilities to find the diamond in the rough, so to speak.

So what say you? Well, first of all, I have to, I was hitting the correction button. Sorry, I probably wasn't hitting it hard enough. I had the correction button. Jose, you made a slight error. Yoder is not fighting police hair. Yoder and police are fighting. They're on the car.

I didn't say they're on this. They were fighting each other. I meant they're on the pre-limy. That's what it sounded like. Who's Yoder fighting? Livia and Azusa, right? And I have no idea who's, you know, Felice Herrick's fight.

Gender-Robo. There you go. Anyway, so Yoder is fighting Livia Hanata-Suzza. I think that could be a fight to steal the show. I think Yoder is a scrapper. She's a little bit, I feel like she's in a little bit in over her head. against an opponent the quality of Susa, but she's super tough. So I don't know if I would pick Susa to, like, blow her out inside of a round.

I do think it'll be a fun to watch decision. Maybe a convincing win for Susa. That would be my prediction as of now, I guess, you know, six days away from Flight Day. But I think it could be a really, really, really fun scrap. And Susan's going to be motivated because I think that loss to Brianna, Brian Buren. It wasn't like completely unexpected, but to someone with so inexperienced to be here, I think May is going to light a fire under her. So I think her and Yoder are going to be, that's going to be a good scrap.

I'll pick that as maybe one to watch. Yeah, Yoder's always in these bloody battles. So I could definitely see that potentially being the one. And points going to go to AK just based on accuracy. And, you know, Jose just didn't want to pull up the card in front of him. He did a nice job trying to battle through it. But, you know, A.K. throughout the specifics and got us there to this final question. We're heading to the knockout round.

As you can see, AK already has his face. buried in his hands because this is what pressure is all about. One question decides at all. Neither of these guys know what that question is. It's going to be 60 seconds on the clock to give your response. And after both competitors give their answer, we'll go to the truck to Judge E. Casey Liden, he will render the final decision. And that makes for very exciting stuff most of the time. Other times as AK can attest to, not so much.

But we'll see what these guys can come up with. And since we don't have a champion right now on the panel, we're going to go, we're going to let AK pick a number between 1 and 25. Wait, and then Jose is also going to pick a number, right? Correct. Okay. I was like, maybe it isn't a game. You can play with one person. 17.

AK, you got it right on the money. Literally right on the money. So there's no drama here. But there is some drama now because you get to choose. whether you have learned your lesson if you would like to go first or if you'd like to pass this question on to Jose Young's. Mike, the last two times I've been on, as you said, I had the option to choose whether to pass the question first or to take it. Both times I chose to answer first and both times I embarrassed myself by being woefully I'm prepared. And the smart thing to do probably would have had let my opponent go first to give myself an extra 60 seconds to formulate an answer or at least Google something really quickly.

It would be insane for me to go first again. So obviously, give me the question right now. Kick me the ball. I'm going all the way to, I'm taking it to the house. All right. So before we crown Jose, the BTL interim champion, just kidding. Here's the question.

Honestly, this morning with the whole Michael Chandler becoming a free agent conversation, it got me thinking about the idea of fantasy matchmaking and our crazy sport of mixed partial arts. It's already like freak it out. So the question, I don't think it's as bad as you think, A.K., but if you could book a cross-promotional champion versus champion fight between the UFC and Bellator or whatever promotional

combination you would like to see, A.K., what would you book and why? One minute on the clock, you may begin. I am terrible with these questions. How dare you? How dare you do this to me? Okay. Well, I chose to go first. So I'd have to involve Habib somehow. I feel like Habib is in the mix there. This, you know, this didn't even come to my mind, but in the spot I'm gonna say, and I feel like I think this is crazy, man, what about Habib versus Pitbull?

I mean, I know there's probably a considerable size difference there. I'm sure if he's like, oh, he just grapple him death, but look, I hear a lot of people say that Pitbull's, you know, one of the best fighters ever, I would say that hasn't fought for the UFC. He's a great grappler, a fantastic striker, one-punch knockout power, so there's always that mystique to it.

And again, he's, He's that classic guy that people say, man, we would love, you know, they always talk about him fighting, you know, whoever's the featherweight champion is in the UFC. Why not go even a little bit bigger? You know, he took out, he knocked out Chandler. That was amazing. He established himself as the greatest fighter in Bellator history. So it might seem a little bit out of the box.

And I'm really wishing that I had gone second now. Five seconds. But Pitbull Habib. I mean, I hadn't thought about until now, but why not? You know, I think you have improved A.K., because normally you take 30 seconds just to try to crawl your way out of the box of doom. Not this time. took it like 10 seconds this time.

I mean, that's a fascinating fight between Habib and Pitbull. And as like the final 20 seconds were running off the clock, Jose had this, this grin on his face. Like, oh, man, just, just throw me the ball and let me swing. So Jose, same question to you. Cross promotional title fights right now. What would you make and why 60 seconds on the clock and go? Well, it's a little bit of a bummer because Bellator doesn't have middleweight or abandonweight champions right now. because like if musasi was the champ, it's,

it's stylebender Musassi all day. I want to see that fight so bad, but because he's not champ, the answer is Amanda Nunez, Chris Cyborg, too. That is the only fight I want to see between the UFC and Bellator. That fight should have been made

immediately after their first fight. As soon as Chris Cyborg beat Bleach Spencer, she was wearing that shirt. She wants that fight. I don't care what Dana White says. I don't care what fans say. I don't care what the Twitterverse says. Chris Cyborg is not afraid.

of Amanda Nunes. Amanda Nunes is rightfully the greatest female fighter of all time. She's being every champion and former champion. She's faced. She took that mantle from Chris Seiborg. I still put Chris Seiborg a very close second in the facts that the two greatest fighters of all time in their gender are fighting in the same weight class and we will not get the rematch is just baffling. Amanda Nunes, Chris Seidborg, two for all the titles. I like no titles. I just want to see that rematch. All right. This is great because Jose made his face while AK was making his point. And then AK made a little smug face of his own as Jose was making his choice. I think he was a little stunned by that choice. And I'm kind of stunned that AK didn't pick his 2020 fighter of the year. Kamar Usman versus Douglas Lima. But a big decision here, Casey, because AK was Com cool collected with his selection. Jose very animated with his. What say you? Who is the BTL interim champion? Well, I will say right now, as a judge, I'm going to actually deduct a point from you, Mike Kek, for the low blow for the Kamar Uzman. Shot.

No, no. That's a great fight. No, I deserved it. I deserved it. No. I sure. That was a low blow I took and I just, I immediately said, no, no, no. I didn't take my five minutes.

I was like, no, let's go. Let's go. This wasn't a fight island low blow. And new. Jose Young's. Oh. The enthusiasm, it was the enthusiasm. He sold it.

I get AKs, you know, Mr. Com, cool, positive, but this is mixed martial arts. This is cage fighting, guys. Come on. M.A. is a silly sport. You have to act silly when you're trying to win a fight. All right. Well, Jose, with the victory, you get 30 seconds to talk about whatever is you want to talk about, good, bad, and different in the sport of mixed martial arts.

If you'd like to take this 30 seconds to send a message to the undisputed champion right now, Mr. Jedmishu. You may do that as well. But 30 seconds is yours off. No, I'm not even going to mention what's his name, Randy. I don't want to mention him because I don't want to give him any sort of shine because it's like when Connor does a tweet about bare-knuckle boxing because he doesn't want to give any shine to something lower than him. So no, I'm not going to mention Randy Michew, pretending there's a storm down there in Atlanta. I'm going to say UFC 4. I have the beta.

fix your algorithm. I won 14 fights in a row by knockout and I still didn't have a title fight. You're giving me 9 and 10 ranked fighters, even though I have wins over the top five, including the champion, all of which were by 360 tornado kick. UFC4, fix your algorithm.

I know you got that interview coming up, Mike. I'll even plug your what the heck show. So fix the algorithm, and then it's a great game. But until then, you got work to do. There you go. And AK, you stepped in on short notice. I'm going to give you some shine time as well.

All I want to say is, you know, I fell short as, as, as, uh, much like Jorge Mosvedal did when he stepped in on short notice. Uh, these things happen. Uh, also I will say, I think the judging was a little fishy. I feel a little bit, to make another analogy, I feel a little bit like Michael Bisping when he lost to a Chelsonen before, you know, and then to set up that Chelsaunin and then to set up a chel Sondon, you know, fight. I know it's the fight everybody wanted. So, uh, I almost feel like I was a dead duck walking in here. But I will say, as usual, Jose is a champion for a reason. and I can't wait to go to the comic book store with you sometime, buddy,

and you can improve my shelf. Wow. What a classy, classy end to the program. Now we get a comic book, you know, little pairing going on. I'm excited to see where you guys come up with. Once you could enter the country without fear of catching a virus, then we can make it happen. We'll have to put that on the MA fighting YouTube page.

I'm sure our listeners and our viewers would love to see a trip to the comic book store between you two guys. But that's it. Big thank you to Casey Liden for the judging and the production. Esther Lynn on the graphics and that fantastic introduction. Next week, Jose versus Jedmishu unifying the most coveted title in MMA media. For A.K. For Jose, I am Mike Heck. We'll see you back here next week.

As you go back once again, Between the Links. It's UFC 252 fight week, everybody. Get excited. We'll see you. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck, brought to you by MMA Fighting, a production of Vox Media. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.