MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 13 | Jon Jones Vacates, Future of 205, Frankie Edgar vs. Pedro Munhoz Fallout

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

Check out episode 13 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the rematch between MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and Fightful’s Sean Ross Sapp as they react to Jon Jones vacating the UFC light heavyweight championship. In addition, the panel gives their take on who is the best 205-pounder in the world now that Jones is heading to heavyweight, how they scored the UFC on ESPN 15 main event between Frankie Edgar and Pedro Munhoz and what should be next for both guys, as well as a look ahead to Saturday night’s UFC Vegas 8 event headlined by Anthony Smith and Aleksandar Rakic. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Sean Ross Sapp: @SeanRossSapp Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck. Thank you, as always, Esther Lane, as we welcome everybody to a brand new edition of Between the Links on MMAfighting.com, the ultimate hot seat for those in the MMA media space. Hope you're all having a great week. A very busy weekend in combat sports is now a thing of the past, and we're going to talk all about that. We're going to talk about big stories in the sport of mixed martial arts as well.

Before we get into this whole thing, a lot of people reached out, commented. Dare I say, demanded a rematch from last week's show because it was a halacious battle. And that's exactly what we're giving you this week on the program. So let us introduce the combatants. You know them both by now. First, in unfamiliar territory back in the challenger seat, the former multi-time defending between the links champion from. I'm MMAfighting.com, Mr. Jedbushu. How are you, sir?

I am so glad the people spoke. I think we all know a great injustice was levied upon me the last time out. And, you know, I'm not usually a guy who's for the immediate rematch. You know, even in viciously unfair circumstances like befell me. But the people demanded it, and I'm here to correct that wrong. You know, I did what champions do. I crunched tape. I went back. I watched the film. I saw where I could improve. And, you know, last time I left it in the hand of the judges.

This time, he's done in four. We're not going to OT. Sean, you're dead. All right. And introducing the brand new between the links champs set to make his first title defense coming off a very busy weekend covering combat sports, the world of professional wrestling from fiefel.com, the champion, Sean Ross Sapp.

Sean, how are you, sir? By the way, we didn't talk about this off air. Roman Raines is back. Big return in Somerslam last day. That was really good stuff. He is. It was actually pretty good stuff. It was a good weekend of wrestling, good weekend of MMA.

I'm just going to steal Jed's thunder and say that I championed us talking more about camsoda. I did it. I said, Mike, we need to talk more about camsoda. Jed didn't want it, so we're not going to talk about it. Wow. Wow, just lies. That's the kind of fight we're about to have, just vicious lies. I can get in the mud with the best of them, Sean.

I'm so excited that was brought up before we would ask the first question. So let's get right into this thing. These two guys want to get after it verbally. So it's interesting because literally 20 to 30 minutes after we finished recording last week's show, we talked all about him for a good chunk early on in the program. Of course, John Jones timed it out perfectly, takes to Twitter and announced he was vacating the UFC light heavyweight title. He also said he planned on. taking some time off before coming back.

And then not long after that, it turned into, I just had a great conversation with the UFC. Negotiations are going to be at heavyweight for my next fight. So Dana White essentially confirms this news the next day after the contender series. And then he officially announced that Dominic Reyes will fight Jan Blahovic for the vacant title at UFC 253 on September 26. Jed, we begin with you. How did you react to this news that John is not only planning on the heavyweight move like

we all figured he would, but he was giving up the title to make it happen. I mean, my first reaction was John Jones just can't let Daniel Cormier eat. Like, he just absolutely refuses to let that man get a news cycle. You know, I guess competitor in him. The second one was, it's about damn time, you know, pardon the pun. He's got bigger fish to fry. They're up at heavyweight. I think it's just the best decision he could make right now, you know.

if he stays at 205, he was supposed to be rematching Dominic Reyes, who I'm sure we're going to talk a lot about this evening as well. But I just don't feel that's a huge draw. I mean, people wanted to see the Gustafsson Jones rematch immediately because that was fight of the year. Reyes Jones was a fine fight, and I think Reyes beat him. But the only reason people want to see that rematch is really just to correct the wrong. Like what happened with me last week,

they want to see the true champion be the true champion. So other than that, though, I mean, that's not that interesting. Jan Blyovic, I was always a fan of, you know, UFC 257, John versus Jan. I thought that would be fun. But that's not really a good reason to put on a pay-per-view event. So he just doesn't have anything else to prove at 205. And I think there is a little bit of truth to what Don Reyes says when, you know, guys are getting faster. They're getting stronger.

They're getting better prepared to beat John Jones. And so moving up to heavyweight, it's a new lease on life. he gets to come out not look as flat and, you know, less interested as he has been the last few times out. And cross our fingers, knock on wood, we finally get to see John Jones versus Francis and Ghanu. I think that's the only downside to this move here. Rumble Johnson is actually finally back in the UFC and going to be a 205. Allegedly. Well, allegedly, but a little bit of bad time there.

But otherwise, this is all upside. I'm stoked about it. my reaction, Sean, was you've got to be shitting me. Like, we just finished recording between the links. How dare you do this right now? But, you know, how did you react to all of this? I'm a big fan of people cleaning out their divisions, taking one every single person possible. I admire Amanda Nunes for doing that at two divisions.

She's like, anybody that you can make a case for to throw at me, throw at me. John Jones has been there for a long time. I mean, he's beaten so many, so many light heavyweights. like he's beaten half of the old middleweight division from like seven, eight years ago as well. Like he's he's taking on anybody and everybody there is. And as mentioned, the best options for him were what,

Dom Reyes rematch, Tiago Santos rematch if he, if he picks up a win, that's nice. Those were good fights, but were those, the types of fights that I want to see John Jones in at this point of his career,

33 years old, he's not that young upstart anymore. He's 33 years old. his body is going to change naturally anyway as he gets older. I want the heavyweight fights and I want the Ngano fight. And I don't blame Dana White for thinking, you know what? Instead of just doing Jones v. Meochich, let me try to get this as Jones versus Angano down the line because Jones versus Ngano in a heavyweight title fight is one of the

biggest fights I can possibly imagine. As for light heavyweight, I think it's not going to have that star power without John Jones, but it'll develop in time, and it will be a little bit different to not see Daniel Cormier and John Jones atop that division for the first time in, what, eight years? The first time in like eight years that we haven't seen that?

I'm all for it. It makes the heavyweight division better. It makes the light heavyweight division, at least a little more compelling. So I love the move, and Jan was the only person that I looked at and said, okay, sure, that's somebody for John Jones. just to kind of build on what you just said, Sean, because, you know, we've seen fighters win multiple titles.

You've seen them go up and down weight classes to take opportunities to fight for belts, win the belts, you know, use their name, their lineage to parlay it into super fights. Like we've seen all this so many times. And look, like you said, John's been running rough shot at 205 for a long time. He's beaten almost every major contender at some point in this run. But it seemed like he had some unfinished business there with, you know, Behovich. We hadn't seen that fight yet. Most wanted to see the rematch with Dominic Reyes, like Jed alluded to, because a lot of people thought Dom won that fight. He's kind of betting on himself here and forfeited a world championship to do it.

And his last few fights, although he got wins, you know, not the John Jones that we've come to grow and want to pay $65 to see. So after those last few fights, Sean, do you feel with where John is at in his career and his abilities to compete that the juices, is worth the squeeze here? Do you feel like this gamble will pay off for him? Yeah, I do. I mean, he's like the guy, he and Habib are like the only guys you can look at and be like dominant

at the top of their division and undefeated at this stage. I mean, the man Hamill fight, whatever. We ain't going to talk about that. But to me, it adds some more, it adds more intrigue to his fights. I mean, the last two fights that he's been in have had an awful lot of intrigue.

by the time they ended, but going into them, I think a lot of people didn't necessarily think that they would be as much. Now, going into his heavyweight bouts, I'm like, what's going to happen? Is he going to get tapped once on the jaw by a big boy and get knocked out? Like, that could happen. It's not likely that it happens, but it could happen, especially if that big boy is eventually Francis and Ganu. I just think it's a world of opportunities and it's a world of fresh fights. I just hope that like by next week, we don't get another, hey guys, I'm not, going to be doing a heavyweight fight type of thing because that seems like the trend of late. He starts talking to UFC.

UFC doesn't want to pay him. He doesn't want to fight. Jed, what do you think? Because I feel like the two names attached to John here at heavyweight are obviously in Ghanu, that's the fight. I think everybody wants to see. And then there's steep. And then after that, like we don't hear a lot of chatter about John versus Alistair

Overeem or John versus Alexi Olinic or Derek Lewis or Curtis Blades, like guys like that. We're not hearing that chatter. Are there other matchups besides Steepa and Inganu that you're just like, man, give it to me. I want it. Let's be clear. You're never going to hear chatter for John versus Alexiolanic. So if you've been holding that one dear in your heart, you can just let that go. I think we could put in thoughts of that one to beg.

You know, no, I mean, look, this is a two horse race at the top. But then there's a world of opportunity after that. So I'm in kind of direct disagreement with Sean here. I think staying at 205. presents the biggest risk. You talked about this being a gamble. I think this is the smart money move. Gambling is staying at 205

where he's looked flat where Dominic Reyes beat him the last time out but didn't get the scores. Tiago Santos with no knees took him to a very competitive decision. Even against Anthony Smith, he won that cleanly, but it was starting to show shades of

maybe John doesn't have that fastball anymore. But moving up to heavyweight, that's not going to be a problem with him. I mean, if he did fight Alexei Olenic, are we pretending like that's going to be a competitive bout? There are only a handful of guys who are maybe difficult matchups form at heavyweight. So, you know, for the casual observer, moving to heavyweight is the biggest risk he's taken, even though I think this is a really smart move for him because I think John Jones beats the crap out of Steve A. Miochich, sorry, I think that there are only one to two guys

at heavyweight that really give me, you know, questions about the viability of beating John. I think just from a stylistic standpoint, John Jones always had a really good chin. So the idea of him going up to heavyweight and getting nuked seems really unbelievable to me, unless it's Francis Nganoo because that man has the Demock Death Touch. Like he's just unbelievable in that regard. But Stepe is not going to jaw him once he's going to fall over. So I think he beats Stepe. The only ones that are questions for me are in Gano because of the power.

and Curtis Blades is very quietly just establishing himself as the best heavyweight in the world other than Francis Ngano who he can't get past. So those are interesting contests for me. But even after that, I mean, you said Alistairoverim, like, isn't that kind of a really fun, weird fight that no one's anticipating, but would be great to watch? I think that there's just a ton of opportunity. I think it's safer at heavyweight. Again, this is pure upside. A great move from him. He should have done it probably a year ago, but now is a great time too.

I, for one, would love to see Alexiolanic get into the clinch of John Jones and pull a standing Ezekiel choke out of nowhere. And everybody's like, okay, that's the guy that just beat John Jones. And then Alexi Olinic promptly gets beaten by like Andrei Arlobsky or something in his next fight. Sorry, go ahead, Mike. I just wanted to get in my dim mock death touch of Alexiolanic as well. I don't even have to respond because it's the most ridiculous notion. that that could ever happen. All right, Sean, true or false, John Jones will fight at heavyweight, make his heavyweight debut in 2020.

I think false. I think he'll wait until next year. Jed? Early next year. Yeah, he's not going to end up doing it into this year just because they're going to do steep A. Francis, which I think is perhaps dangerous because if Francis loses that, you kind of lose the John Francis thing. So I think next year, and I'll go one more. He's not going to stay at heavyweight for that long. I think John goes to heavyweight.

I think he does get the title. Maybe he defends it once. I think he fights both Francis and Steepa. Maybe one other fight, you know, maybe in Israel-Adisina fight, and then he retires. I think we've only got about three more fights out of John left. I would agree with that. And we're going to keep an eye on all this for sure. I'm super interested to see how this all plays out.

I'm sure as soon as we're done wrapping today. There'll be some more John Jones tweets that we'll talk about next week. But much like the rest of this rematch for the BTL strap, I'm fascinated by this whole story. And the first point of the matchup goes to the challenger, Jedmishu. Were you nervous when I said the challenger? You thought you were the champion? No, no, no.

I knew. Back on the board, you know, I wanted you to say the true champion instead of the paper champion. But, you know, points a point. I'm happy to have it. Well, let's stick with the 205 pound division in the sport because as soon as John vacated the title, the narrative surrounding the Bellator 244 main event between Ryan Bader and Vadim Nemcoff,

at least from Scott Coker's side of things, was that the winner of that fight becomes the best light heavyweight in the world, not in Belator, but in the entire world. Bader talked it up, Bader agreed with it. Then he ended up losing the title in MKF via an impressive second round TKO. That was pretty devastating stuff.

But, you know, this has been a discussion point, throughout the weekend with fans with Coker. Even Dana White at the post-fight press conference on Saturday was asked five or six questions maybe about Bellator, which was different. I mean, you might hear a Michael Chandler question, but to have names rifled off to Dana White from the Bellator roster, that was something we haven't really seen before. Sean, we're going to start with you with John Jones seemingly putting his 205 pound days behind him. who's the best 205 pounder on the planet right now?

Who is the best 205 pounder in the planet? I'm going to say right now at this moment, probably Dom Reyes. Deem Nimkov is very good. I love that. I love his run in Bellator specifically over the last two years. But also, I got to look, and there were some extenuating circumstances, obviously. But there's a guy said in number six in the UFC's light heavyweight division that has a win over Nimcov in the last few years.

Again, extenuating circumstances. They were both very, very young. I'm not even going to try to pronounce Jerry's last name because I will butcher it on the air. But yeah, I think it's probably Dom Reyes, but, ah, man, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. I'm going to say Dom Reyes right now. Jed, who's the best light heavyweight on the planet now that John Jones is apparently a heavyweight now? I mean, I think the answer is Dominic Gray.

because Dominic Reyes is the best light heavyweight on the planet, even if John Jones hadn't retired. He beat him. Like just straight up, we could, I know the scorecards didn't go his way, but you check the MMA decisions on that. A majority of people think Dom won that fight. I thought it was pretty clear. I thought really you had to kind of squint your eyes to hope that John Jones won that there. And that's just what it is. He beat him and he kind of deserves the credit for that.

If you really are being a stickler to hold to that to, you know, records, records determine, then it's open, man. Vadim Nemcov has been on a really good run, but at the same time, is that the same quality of opposition? Tiago Santos, I think, if you're just going by record, probably has the best argument in that case because his run to a title shot at 205 was better. And people forget, Dom Reyes beat Chris Weidman. That's a middleweight who has lost like seven fights in a row by knockout. before his last one. Like, it's, it's not the same. So it kind of depends on how you want to judge it here.

But give me Dom Reyes, because I think he beat John Jones the first time. So I think by default, that makes him the best 205 in the world. Jed, back to you. Let's take Dominic Reyes out of the equation. Who is it? Is it Jan? Is it Tiago? Is it Nemcoff?

Like, who's the next guy? If you take Dom out, I think it's Tiago. I mean, Tiago, he didn't just beat Jan. He knocked Yon out. So Jan's gone. Like if that's a head-to-head, Tiago's loss at light heavyweight is a very competitive decision to John Jones when he didn't have knees.

Like that's his run at light heavyweight is fairly small, not enormous, but it's good enough wins. And we're just talking about such a curious division. Like even Glover Tashara has got like good enough wins to be in that conversation. That's partly why I think Jones moving up is such a good choice. Like, dual five is interesting now. It is interesting. If Bader had beaten Nimcoff, I would be here to tell you that Ryan Bader deserve that title at this juncture.

But he didn't. And because Nimcoff has two losses in the not-that-distance passed, I think that that makes him a little further down on my list. So give me Tiago Santos if I can't have Dom Reyes. I do want to touch on this, because you mentioned it in the first question. Jed just sort of mentioned it as well when it comes to this division in John vacating. the fact that things have been shaken up a bit at 205 is pretty cool right now. Like we're like, all right, now we get some fresh matchups. And fresh matchups are always a good thing.

But this is the old cliche, be careful what you ask for. You just might get it. In the long term, is this ultimately, John moving up and shaking things up here? Is this ultimately a good thing for the division because we can have these conversations? Like, what is this conversation going to be like 12 to 14 months from now? Are we still going to be talking about friends? matchups and being excited about it, or do you think we're going to see some gaping holes at 205? I think there'll be a little bit of both. I think you'll run into a situation where, as we call it in pro wrestling, people get 50, 50 booked a lot.

You'll see a lot of top 15. It's like win loss, win loss. And one of two things will happen. You'll have a couple of dominant challengers who emerge, or you'll have the UFC scrambling to find anybody they can that wins two, three in a row or two other last three to throw into a title situation because it's so competitive. There are a lot of people that have popped up like Johnny Walker, who a little too much too soon, you've got Ankleyev there, you've got Rockets there. There's some names that I look at and I'm like, all right, they can emerge. And then people like Krylov, who somehow still end up winning fights and I'm not sure how. Glover Tashara, who seems like at times he gets old and then all of a sudden he just beats everybody and he just hangs around. I actually agree with Jed, there's a real discussion about.

Maybe Glover Tashara would be there, if not for Dom Reyes. He's not a four-fight wind street that are good wins in the division. Yeah. And I- He was doing great right now. And I counted him out for a lot of them, except for the Krylov fight. I thought he was going to be Krylov, but he was beating really good people. It's just a matter of, uh, of hashing it out and seeing who wins and keeping this division active.

Uh, and I think that's important. You need, you need active competitors. and the amount of fresh competitors or relatively fresh competitors here, I think will help out a lot. I do think that you want to highlight this division by putting them on highly trafficked shows. Some of these top 15 fights need to be the co-main event of like a really good TV main event or maybe third from the top in a really good pay-per-view main event to highlight them though. See, Sean, you've made a critical error here because in 18 months, months, there's going to be a dominant champion. And his name is Anthony Rumble Johnson. He's coming back. He's going to be Minnie and Ghani, and knock everybody out. And there's no Daniel Cormier, John Jones, to wrestle him into submission.

He is just going to punch people in the face. They're going to go boom. It's going to be awesome. I will never fall for that again after the way that he showed up in Buffalo. Never. That was the most uninspired crap I have ever seen. And I think deep down he knew it, because I think, that he could have had like an interim title fight right before that. I think he knew he was done when that fight fell out the first time. That's why he was like, ah, no, I don't want an interim title fight. Why would I want that? And he laid down on his way out. He did the job for Daniel Cormier. He jobbed his way out. And I also, I don't believe he's going to make weight. What are you talking about deep down? He all but said that he just didn't care. On the surface,

He tried to wrestle Daniel Kormier instead of punching him in the head. He obviously didn't care. I want to see him against Kevin Burns again. At 205? The rubber match. Wow. One name I didn't think I'd hear today or next week or any other week we record their show. Jed, let me ask you this.

What's more likely to happen? John Jones versus Dominic Reyes 2 or John Jones versus Rumble Johnson? or does none of these fights ever happen? I think Rumble Johnson is actually fairly likely to happen. I mean, Rumble's fought at heavyweight before. I think there's a part of Rumble that was coming back. You know, I mean, the real reason everybody coming back for that paycheck, got to get them checks, son.

But beyond that, I think he thought maybe he could get a title shot that was finally there. And I think that still has interest. People will still care. Maybe they might not care if John goes and beats Francis. But, you know, if that fight never ends up happening, John or Rumbles fought at heavyweight. I could easily see him being like, all right, John, you need to get your feet wet at heavyweight, let's you and me just fight up there, no belt on the lawn, let's just do this.

Yeah, and I'm not convinced that Rumble Johnson will make the weight. It's always a concern. If he fought it heavyweight, I feel like he'd find a way to make it interesting about whether or not he's going to make weight or not. I don't know how, but that's just the nature of his fights. They have stuff to build off of from people wanting that fight so long ago, and it almost happening, but it didn't. And I think at heavyweight, that's pretty good.

Honestly, I wish they could talk Rumble Johnson into fighting John Jones. If it's not going to be a title fight that John Jones is in, which it probably will, it'll probably get the winner of Sipay and Inganu. Then I would love for them to run this back because it's not too ambitious. It's effectively a light heavyweight fight at heavyweight, and people can see what these two look like there. Or we could just do Rumble versus Ngano because... I wouldn't hate that either.

Come on. Rumble versus Inganu. Or hear me out. Rumble versus Kevin Burns three. I win the round. Heavyweight this time, though. Yes. Or Kevin Burns versus John Jones. And then we can see whose eyes truly are the toughest because they're all getting gouged out.

This is the best game ever. We're going to make some history here on Between the Lings because I don't think this has happened before where we had one player wins. win rounds one and two. Jedbushu. Oh, you changed a two-nothing lead. I thought you changed your mind and took the first two rounds from him. Okay. You are the host.

You can do that. I could if I wanted to. Was it the Kevin Burns? Was it the Kevin Burns pitch? Did that lose it for me? It made it really close. It made it really close. I thought I lost it when you had to Kevin Burns.

It was close. It was close. But we'll see if Jed can keep this going. One more. One more in the can. He gets the automatic win, but I feel like Sean's going to get better as time goes on and see if Jed can keep up that cardio, that momentum here. Back against the wall. Well, let's move ahead to Saturday, this past Saturday night.

And we're not talking about camsoda, even though that both of these gentlemen would love to talk about it. We're not talking yet. UFC on ESPN 15 went down before the camsoda wildness began. A wild, wild car. There were lots of shakeups. It's one of those events where there are more changes than actual. fights that went down. We had a very good main event at 135 pounds between Frankie Edgar and Pedro Munoz. Edgar gets the nod via split decision, but there have been a lot of opinions on how that

fight was scored and how people judged it at home. I'd say it's much more in the Munoz camp than the Edgar camp. And honestly, this is my opinion, it's one of those fights where I ain't mad at pretty much any score you come up with unless you drop a 50-45 on me. Jed, we're going to begin with you. who won that fight in your opinion and why? I mean, I think Pedro Munoz won. I think it was closer to 49, 46 Munoz than it was 48, 47, Frankie. Look, Frankie Eckers is one of those guys, man.

He's got a career of winning questionable decisions, but also losing bad decisions. So I guess it all evens out in the wash in the end. I mean, twice he beat Benson Henderson, but didn't get his hand raised. And then he, of course, just straight up stole the lightweight championship from BJ we all forget because of the way their subsequent fight went went but you know that first decision

was wretched that he won there and I think last night was a bad one you know I think Pedro Munoz clearly did the more did the most damage which is supposed to be the end all of everything I think he controlled the fight not just by coming forward but by

dictating how the engagements were done you know Frankie threw a lot in combination and that ended up winning him rounds but you saw every time Pedro was hitting, sticking him, sticking him, Frankie was reacting, where Pedro just kind of took the shots Frankie had to give and kept coming forward.

To me, it was super clear. I was doing the play-by-play for MMA fighting, and I ended up scoring the fifth round for Frankie, but I could have easily given that one to Pedro as well. I think the only round Frankie clearly takes is the second, where he adjusted to what Pedro was doing in round one, used wrestling a little more, but to me I don't see it man I feel like you've got the the veteran blinders on people just love Frankie and they they want him to do well they want him to win and I think he looked sensational but I think he lost the fight John what do you think do you agree or do you disagree yeah I agree I had this for Munoz one three and four very clearly for Munoz Edgar probably the most clear cut round even though I had those three clearly for Munoz I thought second round was the most clear

cut. And the fifth, either way that went, I would have been okay with it. But yeah, I'm in the 49-46 Munoz camp as well. Munoz was more active. He engaged a lot more. Now, Frankie Edgar did show me on that night that he is still one of the best counterstrikers in the world. Like, if Munoz wouldn't have pushed forward so much, then there wouldn't have been nearly as many opportunities for Edgar. But even when those opportunities happened, and Edgar would crack Munoz, he didn't sell it, so to speak. It didn't seem like he was in a ton of danger or anything like that. And Munoz showed me a lot more here than what Edgar did in that I believe that he's still one of the best counterstrikers in the world. Because I went into this fight believing that,

even after he had lost three of four and got knocked out by Korean zombie. Like, I fully, I believed that anyway. I also agree with the point that it's a lot of the veteran favoritism, so to speak, and a lot of people are they do want to see Frankie Edgar do well. I just want to see the right decision read is what I want to see. That's all I care about is seeing the right decision read. And I think it should have been Munoz. I really think it should have been Munoz. I actually scored it for Frankie watching it Saturday night,

but I was doing multiple things at the same time. I gave him, I mean, two, I agree, was the clearest round. I thought two was a clear round for Frankie. Three was a very clear round for Pedro. Those are the two most clear and concise rounds, at least in my eyes. and then the other three were close and I can't hate you either way for scoring it for whoever. Frankie gets the win no matter what. So unfortunately he gets the win whether you scored for him or not in another weight class.

And now he's officially in the mix of 135. Sean Ross Sapp, how do you book him? What do you do with them? What fight makes sense to follow it up? At 135? Like, okay, anybody like that that has that type of cachet, I'm going to say. Dominic Cruz would be fun just because they can headline an ESPN

card with that or they can throw it on pay-per-view. That's the one that stands out. But it's weird because Dominic Dominic Cruz doesn't fight and now he's got more interesting fights as a result of him not log-jamming that division by just rematching the same two people over and over again.

There are a lot of interesting fights for him there. I don't think you want to give Frankie Edgar anybody really in the top 10 right well okay top five right now unless it's going to be somebody that you're fully prepared for him to get beaten up by like i think that honestly i think sanhagen probably beats him but that i wouldn't hate that matchup either it depends on what the ufc wants and i'm

trying to think of this from the ufc's perspective and from the ufc's perspective they probably want to keep carton and frankey out there until they can't anymore just because he was able to headline a show when he had lost three of his last four fights. So from the UFC's mentality, that's at least how I look at it. Shed, what's the fight next for Frankie?

So you said, unfortunately, he won. I think this is the best outcome. Like, I firmly believe Pedro Muno should have won that fight. I think Frankie winning that fight

is the best outcome because now he is in the mix. The problem is, what do you want to do for him? What's your intention with Frankie Edgar? Because I think the intention is to give him a title shot. He's not going to win. It doesn't matter who's holding.

belt he's not going to get it but the idea is whoever is holding that belt you can build him off of you know build off that name that frankie eggers a former lightweight champion down at bannam weight so how do you get him to that it's a bit tricky to book him you could do the sandhagen fight they were booked at one point in time i know sandhagen's currently fighting rice and see how that shakes out but i again sandhagen beats him any of those top top guys are going to beat him but sean nailed it Dominic Cruz, that's the fight they should have booked when he came down. That's a, you know, legend versus legend fight, two guys competing around the same way class for a long period of time. If Dom, when he was champion, if he had knees that worked and weren't perpetually made a paper mache, maybe he moves up and fights Jose Aldo.

You're not going to run an Aldo trilogy down at Bannamweight. So Dominic Cruz, that's it. Like, that's the fight. And if Frankie beats Dominic Cruz, now he has two top 10 wins and you can sell. them as the title contender. Like, yeah, you're going to have to jump somebody, Marlon Marius maybe, but you can sell him as the next guy to build the name off of for Aljo or for Peter Jan, whoever comes out of what knock on wood is actually now booked or Dana is at least admitting that's the

fight we're not going to get. So I think that's it. Dominant Cruz 100%. What about Munoz, Jed? What are we doing from here? Because most people thought he won. I think on an M.A decision was 17 out of 20, maybe 16 out of 20 at worst. You can't imagine he drops that far down on the rankings, maybe a spot just because

Frankie's got to get put into the rankings. So I can't imagine him dropping too much. Do you just book him with like a Hafiela Senzao and run that one back from his debut in the UFC? Or do you give him one of these young, hungry surging up-and-comers? Well, so he's on a two-fight losing streak, and that makes him, you know, you probably not trying to push him up towards a title fight. He doesn't have a high profile. He's lost two in a row, even though he should have beat Frankie. So I think giving him to a young up-and-comer

makes a lot of sense to build those people up. Be a litmus test. I think, you know, I think Rob Bellafili would make some sense there that that fight's okay. I love, I love Hafeel of Sonsau. Nobody has ever thought I should book Hafeel Sonsau to fight this guy. It's just, it's not a thought that comes into your head because of the style of fighting. So I think give him a young guy. If you're not, give him Jose Aldo. Maybe he can build something there. But I think Marab, yeah, I think Maraub Dahliaz really is actually probably the best choice.

I mean, maybe Marlon Vera, Cheeto, Cheeto coming off that win could be fun and interesting as well. But either of those two guys makes a lot of sense to me. Sean, what do we do? Pedro Munoz versus Blank. Stole my thunder there with Marab and Josea Aldo. but just for the sake of saying something different. I would prefer, although of a big name,

Marav Dalishvili, if it's somebody that they want, kind of as an up-and-comer, but I don't hate the idea of like a Uriah Faber either, because it's like one A, one B there for Faber, although in some of these matchups there. There are a lot of interesting, like, veteran matchups to make in this Bannamweight division

because everybody has just decided to end their career at Bannamweight. It's so weird. me that we get all these fighters that are like, I'm going to stop cutting weight. And you got like Aldo and Edgar's that are like, no, we're going to go down to 135 and chill out there for a while in this pretty competitive division that has some good prospects. I think that Faber would be an interesting one, especially with him coming off of two losses, him being Munoz and Faber coming off of a loss against Peter Jan. All good picks.

That's why 135 is one of, if not my favorite division in the UFC. It's just so loaded with talent from the top 15 all way down to the top 50. And we're going to another question. Sean Ross Sapp, on the board. Don't call it a comeback. Ladies and gentlemen, as we look ahead to this Saturday night, this is a much different looking card than this past Saturdays, that's for sure. There's been a couple of shakeups, but still some interesting matchups.

Anthony Smith is back against Alexander Rakeach. Robbie Loller is back, taken on Neil Magny. Pretty solid first two fights there. But Jed, how solid is this card as a whole? What are we grading? I think we're going with UFC Vegas 8 this time around. What are we grading this event on paper here?

I mean, this card's just not good. Sorry. Like, I mean, to be fair, I said that about last weekend's card, and last weekend's card, I hate it when Dana White is right, because then he'll just, you know, use that forever. But it was one of those times where, you know, yeah,

even if the fights don't look good on paper, they can turn out to be awesome. Last weekend's card was amazing. It was super fun. It was the second best event of the weekend behind Cam Soda. And really nothing was ever going to beat Cam Soda. But, I mean, this weekend, your main event, you know, we didn't talk about him a lot,

but I guess Alexander Rockich is in the conversation for, you know, the best 205er. I know he's got a loss, but split decision that really is just a robbery there to no time, Volcanoosemir. So you got that. And Robbie Lawler is awesome. And so it hurts me that he's fighting probably the least fun fight he could ever could against Neil Magny. Like, it's just not great. Why can't we book Robbie Lawler write?

Robbie Lawler, Anderson Silva, put them together. It's the simplest thing in the world. and I feel like I'm the only person who recognizes it. Just do that. It's way better than Pettis versus Anderson Silva. Make that fight happen. I will be there with bells on. I don't care about Neil Magny fighting Arby Lawler.

Very good, whatever. Give me the spider versus Brutal Bob Law. Let's go. Wow. I would love that. I hate to break your heart. I mean, you probably know this by now, Jed. But Anderson's last fight is booked against Uriah Hall in October.

That's not last fight. That's what Dana says is going to be his last fight. Like, come on. Is Anderson... Do you go out on a Uriah Hall probable loss? No, he doesn't have the ability to quit. So book him against Robbie Lawler. Like, this is so simple. It's so easy. That's October for Anderson Silva. Maybe he's got more left. I think he's got two fights left in his deal. So we could still see two more for the spider. But looking at this Saturday, Sean, what do you think? so sucks. It's horrible. It looks bad. I look up and down the card, I'll do respect to Robbie Lawler.

I'll be interested to watch him fight just because he's Robbie Lawler, but other than that, it's like, okay, I want to see what happens with Ankalaya, I want to see what happens to Rockets. That's really it. As I look up and down this card, those are the only things that I'm going to look at here.

You've got a 10-fight card, and there are, like, people on here, that have lost three in a row and probably shouldn't even be here, but due to the circumstances they're still around, I would grade this on paper as a D plus. And if it didn't have the UFC banner on it, it would probably be sitting at an F. It looks like an M1 Global card or something. It looks really bad. Anthony Smith versus Rockets, good fight. Kutalaba, Ancolaev, yeah, okay. And then you got Magni, probably going to beat Robbie. Lawler.

At this point, I agree with Jed, I would have Robbie Lawler on the Legends Tour, so to speak. I mean, when you do that, somebody's got to win. So at least you can justify that. And you won't have Robbie Lawler with like 17 red streaks on his Wikipedia consecutively. Jed, is there a Ed Herman, Gerald Beershardt type of fight on this card that sticks out to you? I mean, look, this card is bad. Just straight up, it's bad. At the very least, most people have Wikipedia pages on it.

So that's an improvement from last weekend on paper. Like, you have some maybe interesting sides of fights. Like, I don't know, Alex Chisaris Giga Chikaze. That could be fun to a point. But if you're looking for the deep cut here for the thing that's bad, but I will enjoy it because it's bad, I mean, just you got to make your heart home and live in middleweight. And Alessio de Chirico and Zach Cummings, who have both been on roster for it feels like a

decade at this point, they're finally going to fight. And one of those fights that would be like, oh, I'm randomly playing EA UFC 4 and I'm choosing to be Zach Cummings so I can try and make a run with the lowest rated fighter on roster that I can play with. And then my first fight is against the other lowest rated guy on roster. So that one's maybe kind of fun just because of that. But no, this is a bad Bellator card. It's certainly not a good UFC card.

What do you think, Sean? Is there a firework fight that no one's really given enough love to? I know you two aren't given a lot of love to much on this card, but is there one that sticks out to you? You'd be like, this one could be pretty good under the radar. Alex Casares, any time he fights, maybe. But other than that, no. I don't think so.

I think this show is going to suck. in theory and in execution. I think it's going to be terrible. Like I was spoiled. Like I didn't get to watch this past week's show until this morning. And I was like, damn, nine match card, nine fight card. This is a breeze. Like in wrestling, we complained about seven hour restlemanias.

That's every Saturday in the UFC. Like, so to get through a nine fight show and to have so many finishes and quick finishes, I don't think we're here on that this Saturday. I think, yeah, I just think it's not going to be a good fight. I think there will be a couple good finishes and that'll be about it. I think the first fight on the card is like the most action-packed fight, Sean Brady and Christian Aguilera. So what we're all saying here, fans watching this is keep it locked to MMAFighting.com.

You don't want to miss the action this week at UFC in Vegas, 8, whatever it is. I mean, like, yeah, I look at that and I'm like, all right, Mallory Martin might finish Hannah Seifers quick. Sean Brady might win pretty quick. It's just. Hannah Seifers is low-key, tough as nails. She is. She is. I like her. I do. But I think Mallory Martin's better. Well, I mean, yeah, that's not, does it respect to Hannah Seifers? That's not, like, terribly difficult to be. Yeah, I know. I just, Cyphers came in against Dern and was tooling Dern up for like a minute before she stopped.

Yeah, I think that eventually she'll be really good. I just unfortunately believe that there's probably an Invictor run in her future, and then she'll win two fights there and be immediately re-signed to the UFC. You've got to keep that 580-person roster so we can have 13 fight cards every weekend. Can we talk about that? Why? Like, why are the fight cards like this? I just don't understand.

I genuinely have no clue why we can't have eight fight cards. every weekend. It just seems so much better. I know. And now we have, we still have, what, five more contender series episodes. So there's at least 15 more contracts, maybe 20. Yeah, the way they're probably this year. And all of them are getting fights already. Like every, almost every single fighter who's gotten a contract on the contender series has their first fight booked already. It's wild.

Crazy. Craziness. One thing we've talked about, I don't know if we talked about it on the show or we talked about it off air last week, but the grassroots of MMA and the UFC and the storytelling and booking is very deeply rooted in the professional wrestling world. And I look at, you know, it's kind of like the old ECW days where you watch the show and it builds up to like either an ECW arena show or their pay-per-view. I feel like these shows build up to September 26. Like, we want people to spend $65 on Israel Adasania versus Paulo Costa. Like, that's what we want to do. We want

get new fans in there. So, Sean, since this is kind of your world, the UFC has announced the main events for the three subsequent events after this Saturday, heading into UFC 253. I think the one that sticks out to everybody's mind is Covington versus Woodley on September 19th. But how do you feel the UFC is doing, I guess, laying down the groundwork for September 26, getting people invested in the product in order to try to sell them a pay-per-view on September 26th? Well, what's the main event for the fifth? Is that Overeem and Sakai? Sure is.

All right. Well, that's being sold on the back of Alistair Overim and them hoping that he'll throw his fist at somebody and knock him out. And you got Pereira on that show. So I think there are at least some things on that show that will be interesting. Tiago Santos Glover, DeSherra. I don't have a problem in the damn world with that main event. Give me that as a team.

That's a heavyweight in the world right there. That's that right there is the best life ever way in the world. And yeah, I wouldn't argue that at all. There's some good fights on that show that I think could be very exciting. I think that will be a really good show. Tyron Woodley v. Colby Covington has all the makings of being one of the most boring fights in UFC history. But the press conferences should at least have something notable instead of me standing there in front of a video screen for an hour just typing out what Dana says and not. caring about what anybody else says. There will at least be some things there. They've got

Seroni and Nico Price on that show. I think that those cards have much more. Any, any one of them have more to them than what this weekend's does. So I think they've done fairly well, actually, building up to what is UFC 253 and that really great main event. What do you think, Chad? Do you think we've built, laid down some seeds here to grow a beautiful flower that is September 26th? Well, I do think that cards are getting better up there just because it's such a low bar we're at right now. And, you know, if, you know, the gods hadn't intervened to remove Gerald Mearschart from Fight Night 177 against Ed Herman, then we'd really be on track to build something because that fight, that fight takes you off like a rocket ship, obviously. We've talked about how good that fight is. So other than that, most of these cards are also not that good.

They're top heavy at least. Their top fights are better. And, you know, Overeem, Sakai is definitely not as good as the next step up. You know, Santos Tashara for the title of Best Light Heavyweight in the World. And then Covington Woodley. So I guess they are incremental steps here, but the rest of the cards are just not good. There's too many people. It's just bad.

Like, it's fine. And I'm an addict. I'll be watching every Saturday right there doing play-by-play and thinking about the decisions I've made in my life to lead me to this point. But, you know, I don't think you're getting new fans through any of this. Yeah, too bad. You know, MFA fighting, we're big fans of Ryan Hall, so we wish him a speedy recovery because he's not fighting this weekend.

Who right Hall. That was actually an interesting matchup with him and Llamas, but now we're going to see Bill Algeo make his UFC day. debut on Saturday. So the guy who lost a Brandon Loch Nain on the Contender series. Yeah, dude, that kind of booking also just, like I know that Llamas probably needs to fight, but just putting them in against a no-name or on short notice, kick that can down the road a couple of weeks and book Llamas against somebody else who will step in that is not a debutante. Like, it's, nothing good is happening for them as of late.

So enjoy the card on paper now because chances are it's not going to look like that come Thursday, Friday, Saturday. We're going to have some shuffling on the I hope so. I hope so. It should only be an improvement. Oh, man. Speaking of improvements, Sean Ross Sapp has delightfully improved. And you know what that means?

We are tied. It's knock around time. And I am so excited for this question because neither of these guys know it. So if you're new to the show, the knock around, you'll hear the question. Each competitor is going to have 60 seconds to give their response. After those 60 seconds are done, we will throw it to the judge, the man who calls it right down the middle. E. Casey lied and he will render the final decision and we will crown a champion, either and still or and new. The drama is just unbelievable, so do not go anywhere.

Sean, you are the champion. With that, you get to decide whether you want to answer this question first or last. And I'm going to preface this by saying, I think this question is right up both of your rallies. And I cannot wait to hear the responses. Oh, I'm going first. Oh, Sean, going first. I have an infinite number of takes about what I assume this question is going to be on. So go first.

I got plenty. I got ammo to spare. All right. Well, I think we're going down a road in a way that Jed wants to go down, but we're going to turn it on its ear, so to speak. Because, yes, Cam Soda happened on Saturday. We had lots of different kinds of combat sports action. We had lots of gimmick matches, so to speak. and this is, again, this is very pro-wrestling-like

and turning it into combat sport. So it got me to thinking probably about a half an hour before we hit record here, what if the UFC were to put on an event like this? And they were able to put together the ultimate gimmick match, Cam Soda style for the Octagon. If they could pull it off,

what would you want to see, Sean Rossap? Davis and Figurado against Stefan Strove. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. Davis and Figurado against Stefan Strub. When I got UFC, the video game, the first fight that I fired up was Demetrius Mighty Mouse Johnson against Stefan Struv. It took me eight times to beat him.

I would be all for it. I would love to see a tag team grappling match or a fight within a UFC cage. I think that could be just batshit crazy, insane, and something that they would never do. But I would love for them to do it. Give me night fights for all I care. Load them up in armor and have them swing weapons at each other. But I think it would be the best flyweight in the world against the biggest guy on their roster. That's what I want to see.

Wow. 12 seconds to spare. John Rossap going, Figgie versus Stefan Strove. Jed has a look in his eye. I can't really read it at this point. I don't know if he's happy about this question. If he's sad about this question, I don't know. I get to talk Cam Soda.

I'm thrilled. All right. Before we let you answer, in like two sentences, describe Cam Soda for those who didn't get to watch it. It's like if your friends put on an MMA show in their backyard but had decent production values, and it's just hilarious. It's the funniest thing.

Okay. Well, now we're going to take that idea and that concept and do it in the Octagon where they have their own arena. They have their own. production. They have all sorts of fun stuff on ESPN. With that being said, Jed, what are we doing? What's the ultimate gimmick match 60 seconds starts now? Look, I get where Sean's coming from. It seems fun to do that. But the reality is you got to know your gimmick matches because it just wouldn't work out. Davidson Figurator would just get laid on. There's two biggest size disparity there for that

to really be that fun. You need to ratchet it up a couple of weight classes, get like a featherweight in there. Like Max Holloway is kind of big enough to maybe. make that a little bit interesting. What you do, it doesn't matter the fighters. I've got preferences. You could pick one or two. One simple thing. Nutshots are legal. You have a fight. All groin strikes are totally legal. If you want to open it up for eyepokes as well, just really take it back all the way back. Get that Keith Hackney just going for it. It'll change the dynamic. We don't have to deal with the referees, you know, calling things and stopping the action. We just let it run.

It's fine. It's beautiful. You can make it. That's just for 2-1-1, so the one guy can just kick one dude low and then have one-on-one. It's perfect. Wow. All right. So we have like an actual MMA fight between the flyweight champion and the tallest heavyweight in the UFC.

And then we have a fight where we just throw all the rules out the window. Maybe eye gauges, but nutshots are okay. I've got 12 seconds left. be standing bang rules. That was on the game. Or as I like to call him, Dan Quinn rules. No kicks, no takedowns.

I would accept his answer if we did Stephensh Drew versus Davidson Figurato in the kick fight only rule set, because that was maybe the best part about Cam Soda. I think Davidson Figurato would probably manage his range better than Stefan Struve in that fight.

Wow. Just one news is just right. there for him though. Lights out. Guys, guys, the timer ran out. Come on. This is the best episode ever. Casey, now you get to take us on home.

Who is walking out of the virtual cage with the BTL strap? Well, putting my imagination cap on and I'm visualizing it right now. Oh, man, Stephenshue versus Figurato. I'm actually combining both answers I just see Figurato actually headbutting Stefan Struth in the groin. Headbts are legal. Man.

Both are amazing answers. I have a winner winning the last round by 10 to 9 and a half. Half points. system still rules. And new! I...

Zemunoz Edgar decision. I won't lie, that was... That last one was a tough one because I love your answer, Sean. That was the first thing I was interested in doing on that video game. I was like, all right. And it took me eight attempts to beat Stefan Strue, stand in bang mode

with Mighty Mouse Johnson. I was ashamed of myself. I love the answer. I do think that, like, If we actually did it, it wouldn't work out that well. But it's a great answer. But I've just always, you guys ever see like Kenny Floreen like college humor video? The all balls brawling.

It's just great. And I've always wanted to just like, yeah, let's just let nutshots happen. It's fine. Change the dynamic of the sport entirely. Before we give Jed his 30 seconds, Casey, I have to know, why did you lean with Jed here? It was a, like I said, I was combining both of them.

So I was seeing Figurato versus Struv, but then I only saw headbuts and punches to Stefan Struv's groin area. So in the end, in the end, it was the groin shots that won me over. Sorry. It doesn't matter if you're six or 65. It's funny. Well, if you do that, you got to bring back Keith Hackney. You got to throw them in there with somebody.

Check Congo versus Keith Hackney. me was the fight that I was thinking in my head of the two most notorious groin strikers in anime history. It is amazing how much of a good guy baby face he has become in the years that followed that just absolute racking of a ball sack because of how bad of a person Joe's son was. That made as a hero. It's great. It's like the best gift in MMA history too. Just it's awesome. We can bring Gary Goodridge back too with the peanut butter. Remember that?

Gary Goodrich. I haven't thought of Gary Goodrich in a long time. John Hess. Give me some John Hess. Wow. Kevin Burns was not going to be an esoteric reference on this episode. So for years, I didn't know anything about technique in MMA. And I rented UFC 5 from the video store.

And when I saw John Hess, I was like, how could anybody ever beat him? Because I was so little, I was like nine years old. I was like, how could anybody ever beat him? Then I find that 144P quality video of him in Brazil and Vitor Belfort just slaughtering him. And it is so satisfying. The good old days of MMA. I know, we're trying to bring it back here on the program.

But Jed, you are back in the driver's seat as the champion. You get 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is. you want to talk about good, bad, and different because I smell a trilogy matchup coming sooner rather than later. You know, if a trilogy happens, I'll accept those terms. You know, Sean was generous enough to give me a rematch, and so I only can do the same. And we all know that Jose Young's is never going to fight me. Man, man is running for his life, so I'll happily do step into the cage anytime.

Well, with whatever time I have left, I just want to say that Cam Soda is legitimately one my favorite things in the sport. It's ridiculous. It is borderline immoral, but it's great because somehow they do find ways to make things entertaining that just shouldn't be. And I think it's okay to let the top button go a little bit, have some fun with our MMA. And look, on Saturday night, they did a two-on-one fight, which is ridiculous in its own measure. And then after the one guy got submitted in about 90 seconds, he was fine. He stood up and was like, I want to run it back. Can we just do it again? And they just said, yeah, and they immediately fought again in the ring.

They just did it again. Like the two guys went back to their corner. He went back to his. And they were just like, all right, let's do it again. The exact same thing happened was amazing. Like, Cam Soda is so great in the most ridiculous way. I'm well over my time, but I love it so much. And I hope the next time they have an event, I can be there in person.

I have a headache right now from laughing so hard over this last 50 minutes or so. Ashah, any final thoughts this week? First off, guys, check out Fightful MMA. Shaquille Majori is doing some great stuff over there. And Fightful.com. We do really good at the wrestling stuff. The Cam Soda thing, that's something that when it happens in wrestling, I'm like, nobody would allow that. Nobody would allow people to compete back to back like that.

But I will close, I will close out by reading you the last passage in John Hess's Wikipedia page. It says, quote, John is also a secret 87 time champion. in at his own Safta Dojo in Glasgow, where he's beaten, has an unbeaten record of 3,000 and O against local junkies. His most infamous fight was a brutal beatdown of Stephen Seagall at a local buffet, which ended when the best trapped Segal in a guillotine, which led to Segal defecating in his fishy pants. I forgot John Hess was a saffta guy.

Yeah. Yeah. That is actually on his week. Out of that whole thing, all you took out of that was, I forgot he was a Safta guy. I figured out of what Stevenson-Go pooping. They used to do one of my favorite things about watching the old UFC is just like, what kind of fighter are you? And it was always some dude trying to brand his own thing.

Just be like, I'm a full combat fighter or whatever. Safta. Oh my God, this 200-no fighter just lost for the first time. This is huge. every card over more than 200 street fights okay cool cool cool

cool the guy that got beat up Taylor Tully he was in forgetting Sarah Marshall I was like why do I recognize this guy slaughtering a pig I'm like oh I watched him get slaughtered on like the first UFC

ever Taylor Tully is like responsible for the UFC in general do you know that show him do you know that story I don't know that I just know that him getting head kicked by Gordo was really awesome oh so before the night before they were having the event, they did a fighters meeting and things broke out because everybody very quickly realized that the rules were aggressively rigged in the gracey favor

and was like, this is trash. And they were yelling about it. And then Taylor Julie just like finished his beer. I was like, I'm going to go fight tomorrow by. And he walked out of the room. And so everybody else felt their manhood had been condemned. That is amazing. So he's like responsible at the first event went like happened in general because the night before was very much up in the And now he's on Magnum P.I. Is he? Wait, I have no idea. Fun fact, he was an extra in the original Magnum P.I.

Like, when he was, I think when he was a teenager. And now he's on the new show. Like, all the time. He's always made that, like, a continuous character. They just did a flashback to him because, not, what are they doing? Yeah, I think he was on, he's on a lot of, like, Hawaii-based stuff. Like, obviously, forgetting Sarah Marshall, Hawaii 5-0, and I think there was something else.

but he's been on quite a few things. That makes him more successful than like 95% of fighters. Yeah. Way to go, Taylor. He had a better acting career than Rhonda Rousey did. I know, she's got time yet. I've seen WWE movies. Just they're waiting.

Roadhouse is coming. The Roadhouse remake is coming. That's you wait. It doesn't get much better than that. We even got some MMA history lessons to close out the show. So thank you all so much for watching. We'll be back. Once again next week, we'll do it all over again right here between the links for Jen Bishu, Sean Rossap.

The judge E. Casey Liden also on the production side, crush it. Big shout out to Esther Lynn on the intro and on the graphics. I am Mike Heck. We'll see you. Have a great week, everybody. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck. Brought to you by MMA Fighting, a production of Vox Media.

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