MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 20 | Conor McGregor vs. Dustin Poirier, Joaquin Buckley's KO, Tony Ferguson's Frustrations

Episode Date: October 13, 2020

Check out episode 20 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jose Youngs and martial arts personality Phoenix Carnevale as they give their takes on the likelihood the UFC is able to book a matchup between former multi-division champion Conor McGregor and Dustin Poirier in 2020.  The panel also discusses the fallout from UFC Vegas 5—including Joaquin Buckley’s incredible knockout, the state of the bantamweight title picture following Cory Sandhagen’s second-round finish of Marlon Moraes, and where Edson Barboza goes from his first win at 145-pounds over Makwan Amirkhani.  In addition, they react to former interim lightweight champion Tony Ferguson’s frustrations and what can be done about it, the pivotal UFC Fight Island 6 main event between Brian Ortega and The Korean Zombie, and more.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Follow Phoenix Carnevale: @microphonephoen  Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With Instacart, you get groceries that over-deliver, like when you get groceries that are the same prices in-store. With no markups that select retailers, you get in-store products for in-store prices, and the only thing that isn't in-store is you. That means you could order in-store products at in-store prices while you're in sweatpants, in spin class, in stuffy work meeting, in anywhere but in store. So download the app today and get $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck.

All right, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links on MMA fighting. Hope you're having a magnificent start to your week, because you're coming off a very busy week in the sport of mixed martial arts. We're in the middle of what will be another busy week at our sport, which is the norm these days, especially in 2020. We have a lot to talk about so much so that I had a really hard time narrowing down the topics. But let's just get right into this thing.

Let's not waste any time. Let's get right into this championship matchup on BTL. First, let us introduce the challenger. Of course, Brian Kelleher was supposed to challenge our champion after winning the last two weeks. He couldn't make it. So filling in heroically on short notice all the way from Fight Island, Abu Dhabi, from MMAfighting.com, Mr. Jose Youngs. How are you, sir?

Well, just leave it to New Englander to bail out of New Yorker in their time of need. Let's not get it twisted. Me, a Rhode Islander, born and raised, coming in to save him to help a fellow New Englander out in his time of need when a quote-unquote New Yorker, Brian Keller. And I use quote-unquote because he's from Long Island out

in wherever God's, whatever God sticks that country. I will always be here to bail out in New York for sure. I appreciate that very much, man. I know you have a million things going on. You're in Abu Dhabi, five weeks total, and coming on here, I'm sure there's a million other things you'd rather be doing, but he will take on the returning champion. Back after a couple week hiatus, the reigning defending BTL champ.

She was a multi-time panelist on the MMA beat. You'll see her from time to time on UFC Unfiltered as a co-host. She's all over the place, and she's got the strap. Phoenix Carnivali. Welcome back. How are you? What's up, guys? Fun fights last week. So this is, I'm excited to talk about this. Yes, there is a lot to talk about. So let's get right into this thing because as it happens so often on this freaking show, we wrap it up or release an episode. And then something gigantic happens like minutes after the fact. This time, it's between Connor McGregor and Dustin Porre. And as you probably read on the website by now, there's a lot of smoke to this.

story, the back and forth on social media between McGregor and Poyer. It seems as if the UFC, Connor, and Porier, have figured out a way to potentially make a fight happen before the year is over. As we reported last week, the big sticking point here, at least from Connorside,

is that this fight needs to happen sometime in 2020, either on November 21st at UFC 255 or on December 12th at UFC 256. So the sticks are rubbing together here, Phoenix, but will they produce a campfire. That's the big question here. On a scale of one to ten, how likely, in your opinion,

will we see this fight between McGregor and Porier in 2020? 9.8. That's how likely I think it is to happen. 9.8, like that 2% that for not to happen would be insane. First of all, aren't we always talking about Connor McGregor even when he retires? Everybody's always talking about him. So why would you lose an opportunity to get him on board to something that he says that he's on board for? And even from a public relations standpoint, the guy hasn't had the best PR in the world happening for him lately while he was out of sorts. He didn't really prove much to some of the fight fans with the Cowboy Soroni fight because it seemed like an easy win for him. And Cowboy, of course, has been on the decline. So I think it's good PR,

for him, especially if he's going to donate so much money to Dustin's foundation. And it does kind of do something for McGregor's legacy to fight Dustin. And I know a lot of people have argued me on this one. But the Dustin we see now is not the Dustin of old. This is like top level. Everybody's in love with Dustin Poirier right now. The Dan Hooker fight, we could say, was probably one of the best fights we've ever seen for that division. So much fun. So if they don't do it, it's a huge mistake. The 2020 thing makes me really curious. It's like I need to get in that tax break with the,

you know, doing the charity event before the end of the year. Or is it something like I really still plan to fight Pac-Yal? You know, I give Conn McGregor a lot of crap for several things, never defending a tile shot and things like that. But I've laid off of that because what he does do is he always stirs up excitement. And to say,

that this isn't that is dumb. And I think the UFC knows that too, because this also puts him in a position for fun too. It puts him in a position for possible Ferguson. And I know we're going to get into that later. So I say that if they don't make this happen, I really can't see why not. Jose, Phoenix giving this a 9.8 out of 10 that this thing happens before the calendar turns to 2021. Are you as confident with this fight between McGregor and Poria? I'm not as confident that will happen in 2020. I am very confident it will happen for a few things. I know, as I'm sure you are both aware,

Dana White hasn't spoken to the media here on Fight Island in two weeks. I think that has a lot to do with he's getting very close to negotiations with Connor McGregor or coming to a deal. I don't think he wants to say anything that would jeopardize those contract negotiations. That's just all speculation, but he hasn't really said anything. I haven't seen him at all. I've seen him one day this entire trip. I've been here for more than three weeks.

I also know they're trying to put fans into the audience for the last Habib Gachi card. And they're trying to sell tickets, whether how many tickets and how many fans that's possible, I don't know. So if they are allowing fans, then why not have a Conne McGregor card? But I don't know if they can hold a Conner card in the UFC Apex. Maybe they want to move to a bigger arena somewhere in Las Vegas or if they wanted to hold that in Abu Dhabi and maybe the end of January, beginning of February. That's another option, too. So I would agree 9.8 that this fight actually happens,

but I'm going to say about 5 out of 10 that happens in 2020 just because I don't think it will happen on the November card. We already got the two flyaway title fights. And then the December one would be more likely, especially because Kamara Usman and Gilbert Burns. It's not happening on that card, and it seems pretty open. I know they want the Hamzaa show on the 19th in Las Vegas, but then I also know Hamza is here and fight Ireland to do some media,

so I don't know if you can get back to the country. I don't know the whole situation with Sweden to the United States. and back. I know there's some sort of two-week process. So I'm not quite sure what the timetable is for that. So I'm pretty confident what happened, but I lean towards more beginning of 2020, than end of 2020, just based on the writing on the wall. Yeah, I mean, the November card's got two title fights, but if we're looking at it from a business perspective, and I like all four fighters involved, but let's be honest, they're not like giant pay-per-view draws. Neither is the December card. You want to add to that, Jose? Well, I don't think Connor wants to

fight on cards with champions because he doesn't want to give pay-per-view points, and I know the UFC doesn't want to give FEP champions pay-per-view points, especially Connor Greger pay-per-view points. So I think especially if two champions are on the card, there's no way Connor fights on the card. I don't think the UFC wants to shout out that much money. I mean, it is.

Can I ask you guys a question too, just based off of like what has been in the pipeline? Do you think that any of this has to do with the possible Pac-e-O fight in 2021? And that's why he's demanding it for 2020, or is it just like he just wants to get in on there? I bet. Well, I know, I think Pacchio left Paradigms sports, if I'm not mistaken.

And I know Connor, that is Connor's agency. So I don't know if that fight will happen. And if it does, it'll, it'll happen in 2020, obviously. And Connor just unveiled he built like a full-sized octagon in his backyard. So I know he's training. So I bet that doesn't even have to do. I bet he, I bet if anyone's going to do with balls, it's going to be Connor. But, you know, I think both fights will.

happen 2021, honestly. Mani actually went to Twitter 17 hours ago as you record and said that, quote, he's excited to have officially partnered with Paradigm Sports. So it looks like... There you go. Yeah. So if he was with them before... Back and forth.

Yeah, he's jumping back and forth. He did say big things are coming. Stay tuned. I mean, obviously, if you're Connor and you're trying to enhance your bottom line, the Paco fight is like a billion times bigger because he'll make a lot more money and we can poo-poo it all we want. because we know how that fight's probably going to go down, but we're all going to watch it,

and we're all going to be fielding questions from our friends and family about it. That's just the way that it is. But back to kind of this whole McGregor-Porye thing, it's amazing what can happen when you have the star power of a McGregor because that was questioned for a little while, especially with his problems, alleged issues with the law, because when he speaks, people listen, the UFC listens,

the fans listen, the media picks up on it in so many different ways, not just in MMA, but out of it. It's just absolutely massive. And obviously, when Connor is involved, people will care. Now, it's a million pay for you buy as easy. It's massive. But the betting sites, Jose, they're siding with Connor here.

He's around a minus 175 favorite in the futures betting world. Poirier plus 150 dog. Are they right? Do you favor McGregor here? Or do you favor Porre? Because as Phoenix sort of alluded to, the first fight was all Connor at 145, but things have changed quite a bit since they first step to the octagon. I think this fight is 50-50.

honestly in terms of what happens inside the octagon in terms of the betting line i get it connor won the last fight he says he's going to knock him out in the first round and he did so i absolutely believe the betting line is what you said it was and i don't blame it but in terms of what happens actually inside the octagon people who watch sport like me and yourself in phoenix i think this fight is much much closer than the first time it's a completely new justice and poor his striking defense is totally different like if anyone watches his featherway run to what it is now he has like different head movement he's blocked with his elbows a lot more more. He's leading with the jab a lot. So like when someone rushes in, he can, he can bounce the

jab off of them. So it is 50-50 in my book, but I do not, I am not surprised the betters. The odds makers are favorite comment. What do you think, Phoenix? Man, I hate to agree with Jose, but I really do because of the situation with Porre and how much faith I have, I have much faith I have in him as a fighter. I know that like, as much as we give Connor crap for, you know, not defending his titles. He's always chosen crazy fights that are really challenging. I mean, you never boxed. You're going to fight Floyd Mayweather.

You have that much belief in yourself. Then you're going to challenge Manny Pachial. You have that much belief in yourself. I mean, it is pretty amazing. So his belief in himself makes you believe in Connor. But I just, it's just Connor's accuracy that makes it hard for me to just go Porreier all the way. And that's why it's 50-50 for me right now. Let me ask you this, Phoenix. 9.8, you're giving McGregor versus Porier that it will happen before the calendar changes.

What is your, on a scale 1 to 10, McGregor versus Pack, yeah, how likely is this fight happen, whether it's, you know, early 20, 21, the spring? Like, I don't want to see it. I will watch it if it happens. I could care less if they book it. But obviously, it'll be a freak show. And I'm all about the freak show when the time comes, but how likely do you think this fight happens? I think it happens. I say it happens. I just think that like, you know, as much as I don't respect Connor for certain things, the hand truck through the window, especially when I fought so hard for the legalization of MMA in New York. And then he pulls that, which makes me look bad after I was like, these fighters are great people and blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, so like I have that

little, but that's my own emotional biases of why I don't like Connor. What I do like about Connor is his ability to get stuff done and his complete and utter dominance over the business of MMA and now combat sports. So if he wants to do it, he's going to do it. Does it happen, Jose? Are we going to see? Yeah. If there's smoke, there's fire.

and if Connor admits that it's happening, and I am pretty sure, and this is by no one's told me this, but there's no way Connor can negotiate a match with Mandy Pachio not having the UFC or Dana White somehow involved, or at least they are aware that it's happening. I think the fact that Dana's like, I don't know anything about this.

I think that's a little ridiculous because how does his prize, most prize fighter negotiate without him knowing? So if there's smoke, there's fire, and I do think this will happen, I don't care if it happens, but he's a prize fighter and make as much money as you can

before your window's closed. If you want to make a bunch of money to fight a limited match, and a fight that he'll probably lose, all power to him. I don't really care, but I think it will happen. Everyone's just going to make a bowl of money like last time.

Can I just say something you guys might be more educated on this than me? But what happened with Zufa boxing? And is this like a lead-in to that? That's not how. As far as I know, I was at a press conference, Dana White's like, I don't even care anymore. Like, I think he got his fingers in the, he like tested in the water with his fingers

and he's like, oh, wow, boxing is absurd and impossible to promote. I do not want anything involved with this. I also, part of me thinks he was really teasing that because I know his son was trying to get into amateur boxing, but I haven't heard anything in a very long time. So if Dana was trying to promote boxing, maybe he's trying to like use that as a way to get his son up the ranks, but I'm not, again, I haven't heard anything about his son anytime soon. about pursuing that career. But I think Zupa Boxing is not happening anytime.

It was a great T-shirt. We got a lot of people talking. It was a great T-shirt. And it led to one of the coolest stories ever. Jose, you know Mike Dice very well. And I remember when this is all, you know what I'm going with this. Our old friend Mike Dice got the URL, Zufabboxing.com. And if you went to the website, it went right to his Twitter page, which was absolutely

hilarious. So kudos to Mike Dice. for pulling off that coup. We'll keep our finger to the pulse as it relates to Connor versus anybody at this point. It'd be huge if the UFC can get this done with Dustin. It would be a nice boost to cap off a crazy air for the UFC. But a boost for this matchup here on Between the Links goes to the champion.

Phoenix Carnabale. She is on the board as we move ahead to UFC Fight Island 5 that took place this past Saturday night a lot to unpack from that event. So we're going to try and continue. condense everything into one round here. So we're going to start with the star of the show. And his greatest Corey Sanhagen's win was in the main event. And we'll get to him in a moment.

The star of the show is Joachim Buckley, who delivered one of the most ridiculous knockouts. Any of us have ever seen. My wife and son came downstairs and wondered what the hell is going on in the house when I was screaming at the top of my lungs after that kick landed to the face of poor Impa Kusang and I, maybe the nicest guy in the history of mixed martial arts. and now he's going to have to live with that knockout for the rest of his career and it sucks

because it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. But you know what, Jose, we're going to start with you. This knockout seems to be a no-brainer for Keo of the year in 2020. But the debate is right now, is this the greatest knockout in UFC history? So is it? And if it's not, what's better? Top five for sure.

I would probably put it probably in the 234 range. I don't think it's the best. I personally think Yehya Rodriguez's knockout of the Korean zombie is the greatest knockout I ever seen. Mostly because I was about 10 feet away from it.

I was sitting on the octagon side when that happened in Denver and I was like, wow, Korean zombie is about five seconds away from winning. He's going to get another title shot. Yarrae Rodriguez. Maybe this rematch will happen

down the road when Yaya Rodriguez is full training camp. And then the wherethal to not only go for the kill, but to throw like a 612 elbow and catch Korean zombie coming in. The fighter,

that no one can knock out, he knocked out with a 612 elbow, with one second left. So I think to me, that is the greatest knockout I have ever seen. And just to make sense, it was a main event. It was the U.S. his 25th anniversary. Neither fighter had fought in a long time. It was with one second left. So just all the stars aligned for that. This could very well be two or three, but they've got to put like Gabriel and Zaghanakop and Crow Cop and Crow Cop has to be up there. Holly Holme head kicking Ronda, which basically shut the sports world down. It wasn't the most spectacular in terms of skill or the technique, but like everything was talking about,

like Lady Gaga tweeted about it. Like people, like it broke the sports world. And then, of course, Wyman Keowing Anderson, Josealdo knocking out McGregor, Mazur, Mazurdoldo versus Ascran. But I personally have it probably in the two three range. But to me, Korean Zambiari-Rodriguez is the most spectacular knockout. ever seen a mixed martialized. I'm glad you mentioned the Holly Holm knockout because if, as you see on Twitter the last

48 hours or so, everyone's compiling their like lists of greatest knockouts since the Buckley one happened. And everyone's leaving off Holly Holm versus Ronda Rousey. I think it's crazy. That's one of the, the most impactful chaos in the history of the sport. I just think it happens. And again, that was UFC 193. And then the very next pay-per-per-194, Conradar knocked out Josie Aldo.

And that's what we're talking about. So I just think it just got overshadowed real quickly. But that kind of, again, that kind of shook the sporting world and the world of female mixed martial arts to its core for a while. Phoenix, we saw your good friend and a friend of the site, Dean Thomas, practiced that kick on Fight Island with Jillian Robertson, one of the funniest videos over the weekend, no doubt about it. But I mean, that's what we're going to see now.

Like all these up-and-coming fighters are going to be like, ooh, did you see that? Maybe I could do that now. So it could be one of those game-changing maneuvers. but in terms of where this ranks and the annals of history, where do you rank this one in terms of greatest knockouts of all time? If you're going categorically, then it could be the greatest knockout of all time based off of athleticism and technique

because it takes a lot of balance in order to do that because you're popping off a leg that's already in the air. In terms of what it meant to the sport, nothing but a lot of tweets and a lot of publicity. It wasn't like it was in a title fight, like the Ronda Ozzie Holly Holmes, where you dethroned the queen at the time. In terms of like super scary knockouts, there's been some punches. Like, do you guys remember who knocked out Nate Corey?

Rich Franklin. Rich Franklin. That, like, scared the crap out of me because Corey went like stiff. And then, you know, like in title fights like Anderson Silva and the karate kid, you know, kick to Vitor Belforce's face. There's knockouts that mean something to this sport. There's knockouts that show athleticism, like an Edson Barbosa flying knee.

There's super cool techniques like a Paul Felder spinning back fist. So it depends. Like, if my going categorically kicks, yeah, then yes. This is probably it. Am I going by technique? This is pretty up there. Am I going what it does? the sport in terms of popularity and tweets, absolutely.

So if I'm going by athleticism and technique, I would say it's probably number one, because it's something we've really never seen before. We've seen spinning elbows. We've seen spinning back fist. We've seen flying knees. So really, if you ask me what category, then I can give you an answer on what's the best,

if that makes sense. Let me ask you this, Phoenix. If Edson Barbosa had delivered that knockout in the co-main event on Saturday, would we be having a different conversation right now? Most likely because of Ed Stern's record of producing crazy spinning, spinning shit. You know what I can say? And to be honest, we do practice that technique. When you miss a technique or you get caught, you spin off of it. I've pulled this off in sparring with guys that are huge because they're strong enough to hold your foot up and stuff like that.

You know, Phil nurses, who I trained with for years, he's like super tricky. He likes, like, if you miss a kick, then you come with a spinning technique. You know, if you miss a punch, then you spin and do your spinning elbow. So it's definitely something that's practiced a lot, but it's extremely hard to pull off. You know what I mean? So I think Buckley stock has definitely rose almost to a point. It might be a little scary for him because now we're going to watch every fight like this, waiting for him to produce something like this again, you know.

But I'm happy with it as a martial artist and as a nerd. Like that was on, he called it Wakanda technique, but it was definitely on some Marvel comics, you know, spinning coolness and I loved it. What did it have been bigger, Jose, if it was like during the main card, you think? I mean, obviously San Hagan Zaka was ridiculous. And Edzabarboa said some good ones.

But let's just say, let's just say like Ben Rothwell did a kick like that in the I mean, that's just, that's optics, though, because you would see a 265-pound hairy, like, gorilla throwing that against, like, a Polish zombie. So, yeah, if that would just be optically, it would be just ridiculous if Ben Rockwell pulled that off. Like, imagine what if Stefan Struth pulled that off? Yeah, it'd be absurd. The fact that I, like, as the phrase is, Buckley looks good getting off the bus. When you see him get off the bus, you're like, that dude's an act. that guy's a fighter. But then, like, you got like Ben Rothwell, you're probably saying, that guy's probably hauling logs down the road. That guy can't be a fighter. So, yeah, it would be different if he threw it. If Edson Barbosa threw it, I think it would just add to his aura and his mystique.

And again, like Phoenix said, it would probably mean something a lot more because he hasn't had one of those knockouts since the Benile Darius'ER use fight. And like Phoenix said, whenever we're watching Edson Barbosa, we're like, oh, what's he going to do? What's it going to do? What's it going to do? And then he pulls that off. It's like he's deliver. It's like he's giving us what we've been expecting.

I don't think anyone in the world though. I know people picked Buckley to win. I think a lot of people picked Input to win this fight, especially how he's looked recently. So Buckley stock definitely rose, but like people are going to expect that all the time. Like remember when John came knocked out with John Hathaway, with that spinning elbow to the face,

which to me is one of the top five most violent knockups I've seen because John Hathaway basically just turned into a format. His next fight, he kept trying to pull something off against Tyrone Woodley to give the fans what they wanted, and it backfired completely. So Barbosa knows how to fight, and now hopefully Buckley doesn't fall into that

because Roboza can pull that off, but he's not trying to, for the sake of trying to. He's throwing these techniques because he knows he'll knock them out. So if Barbosa threw it, it would just be different because it's what we expect. Now, Buckley, it's like, you're the flavor of the, month right now. Can you pull it off again? Probably not. Let's be honest. But he'll get some crazy knockouts, too. I just hope he doesn't fall into that category of trying to deliver these spectacular chaos every time just for the sake of chaos.

Yeah, great points right there by both of you. I mean, it was a ridiculous, huge moment for Mr. Buckley. It was also a big night for Corey Sankag. We mentioned Edson Barbosa. I do want to touch on him in a moment, but Sanhagan knocks out Marl Maraerais, spinning wheel kick in the second round, a huge win for the Sandman. And Jose, one of the questions we had heading into this card on Saturday is, will the title picture be cleared up at 135 pounds after this fight end? So with Mara Marius, now out of the equation, is this like clear cut as can be Jan versus Sterling? Or is T.J. Dillishaw still a looming factor to get an immediate title shot once he returns from suspension? I mean, the threat of T.J skipping the cue is always going to be there,

especially just based on how the UFC books their fighters and champions. Because let's not forget, Marlon probably should have got the title fight already over Jose Alba. So I'm not even going to try to match to make the Bannonweight Division because it's been so out of whack lately. But I tweeted on Fight Week, it should be Jan Al Jalerman Sterling is no-brainer, main event. T. Ditchellishov, Corey Sanhagen, love that script. That's a fight in that main event. Or even if they want to make that the co-mate event of Yon Sterling, so they're all in the same timeline. So be it.

And then I like Marais versus Munoz, two fires coming off a loss. And then I've been asking for Frankie Agenda, which is Dominic Drew for about 10 years. So I just, I'm not going to not, I'm not going to stop saying that because in terms of just footwork and legacy and just, remember that picture. They were all, all the champions were up on the stage and like Frankie and Dominic Cruz are sitting

sitting there. Dominic was the band-a-champ and Frankie was the lightweight champion. And I'm like, Dominic Cruz is bigger than the lightweight champion of the world. Why are they not fighting? And Josealdo was in that mix too. And then I also just want to see Aldo Faber 2 at Bansomweight because the first fight was a featherweight. So I just matchmaking the entire Bandaweight division for the UFC probably will happen because, like I always say, Mike, it makes sense.

And you can't make sense. It makes martial arts. But if the UFC wants to send me the check, they know where to find me here on the eyes eye. Phoenix, do you agree with Jose or do you see this playing out a little differently? Man, I just want to give Jose my point right now because that's beautiful matchmaking right there. It's beautiful. But here's the thing. If,

and this is just as like a fan, if T.J. skips the line, I'm going to be pissed off. Because based of what he did, I don't believe he deserves to skip the line at all. Even though I say T.J. Super fun,

you know, you might want to see him against Sanhagen. I just don't believe that he deserves it. Also, I don't think Dominic Cruz, who just comes in out of anywhere, should get to do it too. But, you know, the UFC is the UFC and rankings only work when they work. We use the rankings when we feel like it, right?

When we have a star or something cool, then forget the rankings. And can I blame them? Because they've made some really fun fights out of that as well. I like Dominic Cruz versus Frankie. I think that goes into that sort of Veterans Division thing, which we sometimes call for because we don't want to see the guys we love and we grew up with get messed up. We'd like to see them fight each other. and they're both still very dangerous fighters as well.

If Jan and Aljo doesn't happen, it's going to be super disappointing because you're going to be like, who did Aljo piss off? Because that doesn't make any sense for it not to happen at this point. It's very clear. San Hagen is fun no matter who he fights.

And I do believe that Munoz versus Marais makes the most sense because they are both coming off a loss and that redemption puts them where they're supposed to be again. So, yeah, let's just not. skip the line, TJ. I don't think that you should and I don't think that you deserve to be there. I don't really need to see. I don't know. I just feel like, yeah, he should be up there in the mix, but I don't think he jumps the line. And I think Aljo has done everything he needs to do to prove that he belongs there. There's so many factors in play too because I think because of

TJ being who he is, the UFC obviously likes Piotr Yan quite a bit. But you can argue that Jan versus Dillashaw is the bigger fight. Like I don't think it's like 500,000 paperview buys bigger, but I think it's one that has more intrigue because I think people just don't like T.J. Dillashaw. He comes in as the natural heel. Jan, if he beats him, becomes this like huge hero because he beat the cheater. And then Sterling kind of gets screwed out of the deal. So, I mean, it is, both fights are fascinating in their own ways.

Sterling should definitely get the shot. But I wouldn't be shocked if they sneak Dillishaw in there. But I would rather see the way Jose lined it out. I think that's great. Maybe put them all on the same card and everybody wins. It could honestly be a tournament. Like have Aljo-Yon fight, and then the winner of San Hagan-Dillishaw fight the winner of that.

And then the winner of Al-Dow-Faver fights the winner of Marais Munoz. And you have a nice little, like, what, sweet 6-5, LE8 right there is what we'd call it. So top eight of the band-oweight division is awesome. They should all just fight each other. We're throwing Cruz in there, but did Cruz even express any interest of, jumping in or are we just talking about him because we just talk about him?

We're talking about him because Frankie wanted to fight him after he beat Munoz. Yeah. So Frankie wants to fight him and I think a lot of people would want that fight and I think that'd be a fight Dominic would be fairly interested in just because Frankie's a name. Yeah. I personally think he would be interested in that also because normally when Frankie's not a call out type of guy so when he calls for a guy people tend to listen. And I also think it's interesting like the crew.

Cruz versus Sanhagen at some point, not this point, because I know San Hagen belongs going up the line, but because they're compared stylistically, it's very interesting. Even though I would say I think San Hagan is the better fighter, because even though Cruz moves a lot, he just moves a lot for the sake of moving a lot, where I just feel that San Hagan's learned from Cruz's style and has a better version of it. So either way, it's all fun. it's they're all fun it doesn't necessarily mean that they're all fair i've given up on my dream because i've wanted to see cruise versus marius since marlin came into the ufc and every time that

i think we're getting close it just gets pulled out from under us so i've actually waved the white flag on that fight i mean we kind of saw it on saturday is as close as we're probably going to get to this point but it is what it is but one other name i did want to touch on because there's been a lot of debate about where edson barboza stands in this featherweight division after his win over Makwan Amir Kani, because he wants a top five, top six guy. A lot of people agree with that. Like some of the matchmaking ideas that I've seen on social media,

some people want to throw him to Yair right away. Some people are throwing to Max Holloway right away, Calvin Kater right away. But he's only got one win at 145 right now. So what do you think, Phoenix? Do we just throw him to the wolves right now? Or do we just build him up slowly and try to make some sort of meritocracy here? I mean, because of the fact that the,

way that Edson had lost when he lost. You know, we debate about Felder and, and things like that. So I feel that people are giving him a lot of credit. But isn't Rodriguez, he's scheduled to fight Zabit, right? Maybe. Yeah, it's not official right now. I don't know. So then who, then who do you put him with? You know, you want to give him a top 10 guy. I feel that I feel that what he's done in the UFC and the way he's looked at times when he has looked good. And I don't think we give him as jiu-it-suituituit into credit. He is a purple belt. You know, it's just that he's always struggled with wrestlers.

It's a new division. It's almost like a new Edson Barbosa at this point. It should be a top 10 guy. I don't know who's matched up with who right now. I'm not looking at it. So I can't really, I can't really say who I think he should match up with. Because there's only one fight. Like it's just the one this Saturday that's like has a lot of significance in this division.

Cater doesn't have a fight. Holloway doesn't have a fight. Zabit, Yair, neither of them have fights right now. And then Josh Emmett's hurt. I mean, you have guys like Shane Burgo. Here's what you do. Wait, I thought you're having to. Yeah, he's hurt.

Okay. Here's what you do. You're given the winner of Arnold Allen and Jeremy Stevens because believe it or not, Jeremy Stevens and Edson Barbosa have never fought. and they both have a thousand UFC fights combined. Arnold Allen, I think it's, Arnold Allen's sitting at, well, like, eight or seven, if I'm not mistaken,

he might still be undefeated, he might not be. You beat Gilbert Melendez, Edson Barbosa has also beat. I think if Arnold beats Jeremy Stevens, he's right there in the top six. He's super young. I don't know if Edson would take that fight, but if he's looking at Rankins,

I'd also just so if you want to see Calvin Cater versus Max Holloway, so I don't want to take Cater away from that. And I think Josh Simon is his knee is just destroyed. is it not like he's not fighting for a while. Yeah. Which would mean Arnold and I think Arnold and Stevens are like 8, 9, 9, 10. So I think the winner of that would make a lot of sense.

He's still top 10. And I think Jeremy Stevens wins that fight. And Jeremy Stevens is Insom Barbosa is just super violent. And I want to see it. I feel like this is just go ahead. Moza versus Sidique Yusuf. I mean, it's right there. I mean, it wasn't an injury that forced him out of the fight.

It was a passport issue. So if you want to get back in right away, let's do it. Okay. That's not bad. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it gives us a couple of questions. That's fun, too. It's sort of a waiting game, you know, who's free, who's not booked, and who's not hurt.

Yeah. Yeah, see, see, this is a good event because it led to a lot of discussion points. Go ahead, Jose. You could give him, if Brian Ortega wins, that's two losses in a row. He's probably still top five. You could give him Brian Ortega if he's coming off a loss. Like the loser on Saturday's main event versus Edson Barbosa would still be fun. Yes, a lot of fun matchups for Mr. Braboza.

But, I mean, if you do the U.S. You should stay ready because we know Brown-Otting and Korean zombies are not going to happen. Don't leave the island. That's it. Don't. The people that know me, no, I'm very superstitious. So people are very aware of my affinity for this fight, but it's never going to happen. Cool, Alex.

Do not clip this for social media. Don't do it. Let's not put this negative juju out in the world, all right? Sheesh. But moving up in this matchup, I mean, that's about. both what's move up in this division. We're moving up in this matchup, Jose Young's,

even though the negative juju is on the board. About that. So let's switch gears a little bit before we take a look at this weekend's card because another big story coming out of last week, we got to hear from Tony Ferg for the first time in a little while. He speaks with ESPN's Ariel Hawani, and it was like Elkakoui's Festivus,

the airing of grievances were out towards everybody. And he's pretty, uh, he's pretty, frustrated to say the least that he hasn't been able to book a fight. He feels like he's not getting the respect he deserves. Of course, he was supposed to fight. Dustin Poirier next weekend at UFC 254. That thing fell apart.

Poirier, like we discussed earlier, now turning his attention towards Connor McGregor. Tony is pissed about this and rightfully so. So now he's wondering what is next for him. So Phoenix, we will begin with you. What does the UFC do with Tony Ferguson to help alleviate some of this frustration? Well, I do feel that in a lot of ways Tony is taking it personally, but a lot of it is like booking time and availability and then, of course, the money. And there are things that he did say no to like Michael Chandler. And then the Porre thing was going to happen, but it was a financial thing that fell apart.

I'm not Tony. So I can't say that he shouldn't take it personally because I don't know what negotiations have gone on because there's one thing that the UFC says. And then there's things that Ferguson say. The interview itself, like my head was spinning. I got to give Ariel a lot of credit because there was times that I was like, what the F is he talking about? And you could see Ariel like, blink, blink what? You know what I mean?

Like he was like, my hands are like this. But then my hands are like this. And someone's pulling my hands. And I was like, what? Like, I know you know what you're talking about. We don't know what you're talking about. Give me specifics, Tony. But look, from his perspective, I would kind of be pissed off to.

Porre is like, I want to fight you, but I want more money. And then I'm Ferguson and I back you up and I give the man the money, pay the man, let's make this happen. And then Chandler comes in out of nowhere and he's a backup for a fight that Ferguson was supposed to have almost five or six times ago. Can someone please look this up and find out if Ferguson Kabib has been the most canceled fight in combat sports history? Because I like think it is, right? Am I right? It's like it has the record for that. It's not. Yeah.

Like I can't think of another fight that's been canceled. this many times. I know that Dana says that he wants to make that fight. So I do understand Ferguson's frustration because he wants to be busy. He wants to be active, but he's also not getting what he wants. And if they are offering things to him and he's

saying no to them, that's a negotiation tactic. It's not that nobody cares about you. Because you're still always up there in the upper echelon of fighters to fight. He's just not used to losing. You know, up until that Gachy fight, Gagey threw a wrench and

everything for him. Really, before that, the only thing Tony Ferguson was losing to was Tony Ferguson, whether it be injuries or personal issues, you know? So I feel that he's frustrated and there's a lot of things that he can point his fingers of frustration at. And I think that what happens is he waits and something clears up in that division and he'll be right up there again. It's just, unfortunately, patience and money. What do you think, Jose? Because it seems like the obvious option here is to book Michael Chandler, but you probably have to pony up a few more bucks to make that happen. And if it's not a five-round fight, then you're kind of like, eh, what's the point here? Because Tony Ferguson's kind of like a main event fighter at this point.

I think he's earned that right to be in that position. So what do you do with, you know, you got the division pretty much booked up. You got Gagee versus Habib. If Habib wins, the UFC is promising him this big, huge thing next year. that's not GSP or Connor, have a hard time believing Tony is the guy based on these conversations, but maybe it could be like, what do we do here? Pay the man. That's what you do. I mean, every fight, like, for all this talk of fighter pay, like pay the man, like pay Dustin to fight. Like, that was the whole thing. Like, it was financial.

We could have avoided this if we just paid the man. Like, the fact that Dustin was being, like Tony and Dustin were being loyal to each other, they're trying to matchmake that regardless. And then they offered Tony another friend. fight, but he was like, no, I want to stay loyal to Dustin. And Dustin was like, no, I want to take this fight with Tony because he looked out for me. And this and that. And then they just turn around and book Dustin and Connor, which is obviously the bigger fight monetarily, but Tony is higher ranked.

And now Dustin is getting paid more to fight a lower, technically lower ranked fighter that might just make them more money. I totally get what Tony Ferguson's coming. I can slap in the face to him. Like, I looked out for this guy. I went on Twitter and said, Dana White, paying this man what he wants so we can fight and give the fans what they're. want. They don't. They cancel the fight. And then they give the man money to fight a guy that's

going to make the promotion more money. Like, I totally, totally get it. So the only solution for Tony is the U.S.C. needs to pay. The only solution is the day of the U.S.N. is paying. If they give him what he wants, make Chandler versus Ferguson. I love that fight as it is. And I know the Dan Hooker fight is out there. I know Charles Oliver is out there. Tony Ferguson should fight. Habib, the winner of Habib Justin, which obviously isn't going to happen. DePore or Connor. They're all booked up. Tony should just wait it out, get paid,

and maybe you can slide in there some way, but it's just a bummer situation all around that Tony Ferguson in the past has not fought for issues in his personal life and injuries. And now neither one is holding him back and we're still not able to see him fight. It's just an absolute bummer of a situation. Bummerville population mean.

So pay the man is money, and we can see him inside the oxen, hopefully five rounds. And if not, I want to see him versus Connor or him versus Porte. So badly, Chandler's my option three, just because I also think Chandler deserves a big name for his first UFC fight. So I don't care of any of those three names on final, but at the end of the day, pay the man what he's worth. Phoenix, let me throw out a name here, okay? Because one thing that Tony Ferguson said amidst the, they tried to pull my hands apart and I gave you a little glimpse thing, is that he mentioned that I have the frame of a 205 or I could go up to 170.

I can go up to 185. What if the UFC threw him a little bit of a bone here? What if he did Tony Ferguson versus Nick Diaz at 170 pounds? Give you a big name, a name that people are going to circulate around. A fight he should probably win rather easily, but you never know it is combat sports and anything can happen. He could slip on a banana peel or something. But people would, I mean, let's be honest, future odds.

Tony's probably like a minus 500 favorite in that fight. And that's probably being respectful here. What about that? Like if the UFC was like, listen, Tony, I know you're frustrated, bro. Let me give you this fight with Nick Diaz of 170. People want to see it. People will be excited for it. You'll go in there and get a win and then we'll do something fun for you.

Would you be all right with that? Hell yeah, it would be all right. First of all right, first of all, that's a gift. It's a gift to the fans. It's a gift to Tony Ferguson. It keeps him busy. And it also gives them a fun fight. Let's not act like we don't like super fights.

We don't like exciting fights and we don't like names. and if anybody would stay active and make a fun fight for Tony Ferguson, it would be that. And Tony has discussed the whole weight issue and the whole back and forth thing. The only thing I'm afraid of is if he did go to 170 is that him not wanting to go back down. Because it does feel good not to have to cut weight, you know. But he's a competitive guy. Maybe he says he does it again, you know, the crazy thing where he cut weight when he didn't have to cut weight just to prove that he could cut weight, right?

So I think it's interesting. And I say if you want to try to get Nick Diaz back in there and you want to entice him with something fun, why not? I mean, we never got an answer to if this was going to happen or not. There were whisperings of it, you know, he's, Nick Diaz is like the boogeyman at this point. And it's so amazing to me that even casual fans know who he is and are interested in him coming back. Like what a legacy the Diaz brothers have that you just say Diaz and people go, ooh, you know what I mean? It's cool. I like it.

13, 14 months we deal with this with Nick. It's unbelievable. Jose, I mean, could we see Ferguson just jump up to 170 for like a fun fight just to keep him busy and keep him happy? Sure, why not? He won the ultimate fighter, if I'm not mistaken. There's a ton of fights to Eltaway. I mean, I would look, anyone in the top 10 of Welterweight, I'd watch Tony Berger fight, but also weirdly enough. I never want to see it, but I've interviewed Tony Ferguson.

And he's like, I'll go down and fight Max Holloway 1,45. I'm like, I don't think that's physically possible. I guarantee, I know you believe you can make $1.45. I don't think anyone outside of yourself believes that. So I know I agree with Phoenix that he's a competitive cat. And if he goes to 170 and someone's like, you know what, I don't think you can make $155 again. He's like, oh, yeah, I'll do it right now. I don't even if I'll cut to $155.

So I guarantee you Tony could do both. I would love to see him a $170. Like the Nate Diaz fight would be fun. The Nick Diaz fight would be fun. Mavidol would be fun. any of those cats like like i'll watch him fight anyone any of those guys but i so i just whatever fight makes him the most money that's my answer what about hamzat shamaev oh my god at two hundred five pounds right because that's that that that two pounds by everyone in every way

class no hamzaz once there until said you fight hamzad if you be if you gets through jack her manson so i think hamzad is uh looking at lips at that uh the possibility of that fight well we got up with Chimaeif in every show that we do at least one. So there you have. Phoenix Carnivali gets the point here in a fun third round. Again, this is a tough. These questions were tough to narrow down this week. There's so much to talk about.

But let's head to Jose's favorite topic. This Saturday night, the big fight in the featherweight division, Brian Ortega takes on the Korean zombie. Jose's fight of all fights, no one at Earth has been talking about this matchup more than Jose Young since probably 2015. So, I mean, we have to start with you. It would be apropos to start with Mr. Youngs.

Much like the main event this past Saturday, Jose. That was a huge one for the Bannonweight Division. Could clear up some cobwebs in the title picture. This one could answer some championship road questions at 1.45. Is this simple here? Is the winner of this fight pretty much guaranteed a title shot against Volcanowski or not? What do you think?

I think so 100%. mostly because like what we said in an earlier question, the rest of the division isn't really matched up in the top five. So this is the only fight. Like what are they like one in three if that? So like I, and Dana Way has already said like winner of this gets Alex Volcanowski. Now that is like let's not forget. These are also two of the more fragile fighters that we've seen in UFC history. Brian Otagos hasn't fought in like almost two years.

Korean zombie has had massive layoffs due to injuries and of course the mandatory military service in South Korea. So let's say in a hypothetical world, this fight actually happens. And the world is aligned. And the winner gets out clean and not like I was at the, when Corrine Zami lost DIA-Rodriguez, Corrinzami had to stay an extra few days in Denver because he was so injured, he couldn't get on the plane. They were afraid the pressure would like rupture something in his brain. So very fragile individuals. Also two fighters who are probably too tough for their own good.

Like their body keeps fighting through pain. And if that is the case, in this fight, I don't think the winner is going to come out scot-free. But let's say in this world, they come out healthy after this fight. This mythical fight actually happens. The winner absolutely against Volcanovsky. I know people say, oh, Brian Ortega is coming off. I just horrifically one-sided T.K.O. lost to Max Holloway. But I view it as he's not fighting Max Holloway again.

This is Alexander Volcanowski. This is a new match for the champion. We saw him fight Max Holloway back-to-back times. So at this point, I do not care who Alexander Volcanowski fights next. I just want a fresh matchup. And this is the only fight. These are the only two fighters in the top five that have an official fight lined up. He's not getting holloway third time.

So yes, 100 percent, this fight that will never happen will determine the next no-run contender at Featherweight. Phoenix is the winner of this fight fighting Volkeroski for the title? Or is this the UFC? see, could this go a different way? Look, timeline-wise, it really is about that because, like, we said, Rodriguez and then Zabit, like, what's going on with that? Is it happening? Is it not happening?

That's in talks. That seems like the next matchup that's going to happen. And then cater with an injury. So who else really belongs there? They are, it is the top guys. They are in that echelon of what's going to circulate. I look at zombie and I look at Brian Ortega and I say, do we want to see Max Holloway again versus Volcanowski?

Probably not. You know, okay, the first fight, I'm not really sure. It warrants a rematch. We get the rematch. The second fight, it's a lot more clear. But is anybody really asking for a third fight? Not really. I think the mix-up, like, if zombie doesn't win and get the title matchup,

zombie Holloway is kind of fun. Max is always like there to kind of put in pieces so that if we have enough big enough break between Volcanowski and Holloway, that if we do do that third fight, I care about it again. I don't necessarily care right now. So that's why I think Ortega and zombie getting that next shot makes the most sense, even though there's just such a break. There's still, even though it was just such a bad loss to Holloway, there is still a lure around what Ortega's possibility.

are. And zombies has been around and he's given us so many fun fights that we're interested in whatever that he does too. And then this is kind of a new Brian Ortega. There's been a long enough break for us to say, who is he now? What is he done? What's this new training camp been like with this team and his recovery? Like, who are we going to see Saturday night? And I think that's interesting to the fans as well because he's so beloved by fight fans because of what he does outside of the cage as well. So there's a lot behind Ortega that makes people want to root for him. Because even though he lost pretty badly to Max Holloway, what did we leave saying? Damn he has a chin. Damn, he's got a good fighting spirit. Damn, that kid's a warrior.

So as far as a star, I think he's still there. Yeah. It's, I mean, this division is just so interesting. You got, just to clarify, cater's fine. Cater can fight tomorrow if he wants. Josh Emmett's hurt bad. Like he's the one who tore his ACL and still beat Shane Burgos, which is just ridiculous. Wasn't it like his ACL, his PCL? Like he tore everything. Every thing. He fell apart.

Yeah. His knee is basically not attached to his body at this. But if there's one thing we've learned about Josh Emmett over the years is he's not Tony Ferguson freakish, but he's close to it. So he'll probably fight sooner than we think. But so that's a huge fight at 145. And obviously, I think so, too, the winner of that will fight Volcanovsky. Volcanovsky also thinks that as well as he was on what the heck a couple weeks ago and said that, listen, I'm fighting the winner of that fight unless it's a terrible fight, which probably will not happen.

But Jose, looking at this card as a whole, this, I mean, you've been in Abu Dhabi since the beginning. You got one more week after this and then you get to fly back home to the good old US of A. But this will be the third fight night card of the bunch. You get the two pay-per-view sprinkled in. great main events and really interesting matchups on paper. Is this the best fight night card of the three? Ooh, interesting question.

I don't think so. I think the last one top to bottom might be a notch above. This is an awesome card, but I think they're just man, that's tough. Now thinking about it now, I think this card coming up, the last card might just be a notch above this one. Like the fact that, like, Giga, Jacadz, he was

on the prelimbs, and he, I am such a big fan of him. I think he's just one of the more fun fighters to watch. Like Digger DePlessy making his UFC debut was I've been waiting for him to join the UFC for a long time. Man, yeah, I'd say the last one was just a notch above. But this one is awesome. I think both cards are obviously better than the Holly Home card. That's not a knock on the fighters. I just name value and what I expect from this card is slightly above. But I think the last card is just a notch above this one. So, Phoenix, we got the main event. We got Cyril Gan versus is Ante Delajia.

We got Jessica Andrade's, Caitlin Chacon, two up-and-coming 205ers, Modestis Bacoccas in Jimmy Crew. We got Almeida versus Jonathan Martinez. James Krause being all James Kraus-like, fighting a dangerous guy like Caudio Silva in less than two weeks notice, Gillian Robertson on the cards, so forth and so on. Do you think this is the best of the three fight night cards on Fight Island? Definitely not.

Which one's better? Definitely not. I mean, the co-main event is a guy that's making his UFC debut. The co-main event last week was Edson Barbosa. So definitely not. I'm not saying that it's a bad card, but I'm saying that there were a lot more potential stars in last week's card. And I guess, you know, a little bit,

some of it's my bias coming from the LFA and watching these LFA guys become, you know, stars. So I'm just thinking like, hey, this is good. I like the Caitlin Chakugan versus Jessica Androj, you know, Jessica Androge changing weight classes. Let's see what she does. I see Caitlin beating her because, again, the body type of Chagugin is like Jessica Androja's sort of Achilles heel, long, lanky fighter, likes to fight at range. Androge is going to have to fight to get in like she always does.

Of course, everybody's interested in the main event. And James Krauss is James Krauss. You know, you'll watch him do anything. He's just such a fun guy and such a great coach. But last week had star potential. It made a lot of names last week. I'm excited for this card. And honestly, that fight with Androge and Chiquagan is huge for that division, especially if Androge wins because at UFC 254, you got Cynthia Calvillo versus Lauren Murphy on the main card.

And many believe the winner of that is going to go on to fight the winner of Chichenko versus Maya. But what if Jessica Androge goes out there and beats Caitlin Chukagin, that could throw a little wrinkle to the plans. All I'm saying is like I don't see anybody beating Shipchanko. I know. I was about to say, I was about to say, like, when you say the winner of Valentina versus Maya, like, just say Valentina. Oh, how dare you? It would probably be one of the most stunning upsets ever, really, because she's been so dominant. It's one of the only fighters, like something's going to have to, something crazy would have to happen for her to lose, in my opinion.

she's just such a step above everybody. So yeah, we'll see. We will see and we will see a knocker around here because Jose Young says

tied things up. I just also want to say forgot to mention don't forget how Mattia's Gamrod I have been waiting for that cat to join the UFC for so long I think he's going to be like he got signs

they announced that he signed the same day Michael Chandler signed and I was like just injects the lightweight division directly into my veins. Because that is the two best non-lightweights I could think the U.C. could sign one day. Absolutely. So with that, we're going to head to knock around.

One question is going to decide this competitive battle between Jose Youngs and the champ, Phoenix Carnivali. Neither of these wonderful competitors have any idea what this question is. I will tell you, it is a completely different road than we've discussed throughout the program. They're each going to have 60 seconds to answer said question. Then we'll turn it over to Judge E. Casey Leiden, will render the final decision. So Phoenix, you are the champ. You get some perks. One of those perks is you have the option. Do you want to answer this question first or do you want to pass it on to Jose?

I'll answer it first. Okay. Phoenix, here is the question. The UFC is not the only major promotion with an important event this week because Bellator is back with Belator 249. Their first show on American soil that will air on the CBS Network. Now, we talked to CBS Sports Network, excuse me, we discussed this move a couple weeks ago on the program. Main event, Chris Cyborg is going to defend her featherweight title against Arlene Blanco. Patricie Pitbull is on the car. He's going to fight Jaliyah Willis in the co-main event.

We get Ricky Bandaehas versus Leandro Higo and more. This is an important event for Bellator, Phoenix, especially with Chris Cyborg, one of their biggest stars headlining. In the last couple weeks, Bellator's had events that were okay. Last week was in Paris. A couple of fun cards, but there wasn't a ton of promotional push. The main events didn't really deliver, especially last weekend. So the question is, with this event kicking off their Thursday night slate on CBS Sports, of course, Musasi v. Lima is October 29th.

How important is it for Bellator to have this event deliver in a big way on Thursday night? So we're going to put 60 seconds on the clock and go. I think it's highly important for Bellator right now, especially since MVP, who is one of their, like, let's cut up some clips and then show him to promote Bellator. I mean, he won, but it wasn't his most successful matchup ever, and it wasn't his most exciting fight ever. So I think it's important.

And then plus, you know, you get a big name, Chris Cyborg, hopefully she does, you know, win, but doesn't run through this girl too quickly because then it'll be like, oh, you gave her a can. So you want it to be actually a competitive matchup because it would make Bellator and their fighters look better if it's an exciting sort of nail-biting fight to watch. Just to see that there's more in that division than just their former UFC stars, which is what a lot of our criticism of Bellator is. Then Jaliel, Willis, who's a talented fighter. Five seconds.

I've seen the LFA many times. That match up with Pipple, it's a big difference there because people has so much more experience if you look at that fight record. All right, Jose, Belator 249, Thursday night, CBS Sports Network, Thursday night slate here at American soil, back at the fight sphere. Mohegan Sun, Connecticut. How big is it? How important is it for Bellator to have this thing go off with?

an A or an A plus type of event. 60 seconds on the clock. Your time starts now. Honestly, the fights are great, and I know they're going to deliver, but if I'm CBS headquarters, I am hoping. One of the last two times that there was a major anime promotion signed to CBS, we got the Strike Force brawl. That was on CBS.

Horrible day in the world that makes martial arts. Remember the last promotion before Strike Force? Elite X.C. When Kimball's Slice by, what was it, Thompson, that, and then Kimball, Bainbo's Lice got knocked out, let me say, Petrazzelli, and then there was basically almost a riot inside the arena. Like, if I'm CBS, I'm like, dear God, let this fight, let all of these fights play out. If they're great, fights, great, if they're not, that's just, I mean, we can't get bangers all the time. But my God, let's not hope for controversy.

Let's not hope for brawls. Let's not hope Mahem Miller just hops the fence and gets in the face of Chris Seibor, and if Chris Seibor punched him in the face. let's hope Seth Petruselli doesn't have to step in last minute and throw everything up. So no brawls and that's a success on CBS. Wow. That was a good round. That was a great round.

And now we have to turn it over to Judge E. Casey Leiden because Jedmishu has made quite a name for himself just tugging on the heartstrings of Casey Leiden to pick up these victories in this final round. But I don't know. I don't know how he's going to lean here. Normally I have an idea and normally I'm wrong. So Casey, the judge, the jury, we leave it to you. You've heard the arguments. How do you rule? As someone that was in the arena for those CBS shows,

I'm having a little bit of flashbacks right now, so give me a moment. As someone that was literally an employee of Elite XC when Kimbo got knocked out. Let me breathe for a moment. Oh, boy. Your winner. And still, Phoenix. Phoenix! Oh, wow.

Wow. Thank you, guys. Thank you. I have to say, this was so fun because I love Jose, and I, like, read your Twitter all the time. And we're very, Jose, I had a Wu-Tang tattoo. I saw it. Oh, I said. What do you got?

A Wu-Tang tattoo. Oh, that's a Tats. He makes hip-hop comment. all the time. So I'm like, are we best friends? So this is so fun to do this with you. Yeah, I also saw all your statues in the background. I know we talked about Jackie Chan Adventures multiple a few times on Twitter. There are a few people in the industry that I respect more than you, Phoenix, mostly because you fly the nerd flag better than most people I've met outside of MMA. So if I have to lose to someone, I'm glad I'm not losing the Jed because we all know

that wasn't true. I'm glad I'm glad I'm, I am happy to lose to Phoenix because she is a fantastic ambassador for the sport and nerd fandom all around. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. What a glorious way to wrap up this show. But before we do that, Phoenix, you know the drill.

30 seconds. You can talk about whatever it is you want to talk about good, bad, and different in the sport of MMA. You want to plug something? The floor is yours. I should plug that I work for this percussion massage gun company called Nimble. So if you're an athlete and you're like, I'm serious, I honestly use this thing. It's great.

You use my coach Phoenix for 20% off and you can get a nimble massage massage gun. The thing is so dope and so good for your calves if you've done running or you've been kicking a lot. So check out the nimble. I'm very bad at self-emotion, but it really is. I would not work for a product if I didn't think of this is awesome. See, she could have said anything. But instead she wants to save you money, ladies and gentlemen. And that is a selfless 30 seconds right there.

Trying to save you 20%. At least it wasn't for CBD company. Like everybody else. Are you even an MMA fighter if you don't post pictures of tigers and CBD products on your Instagram? No, that's how you know it's real. That's how you know they do UFC, bro. Well, this is a lot of fun. This is a lot of fun.

We appreciate you guys watching and listening every week. For Jose Youngs, for our champ, Phoenix, Carnivali. we're going to have to start lining up contenders for Phoenix because she's just running everybody off at this point. So thank you all very much for watching. I am Mike Heck. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck,

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