MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 21 | Khabib Nurmagomedov vs. Justin Gaethje, UFC 254, Stars of UFC Fight Island 6

Episode Date: October 20, 2020

Check out episode 21 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and TSN’s Aaron Bronsteter as they reveal who they believe—outside of Brian Ortega���were the three stars of UFC Fight Island 6 this past Saturday, along with the impact of Ortega and Jessica Andrade's wins in Abu Dhabi. In addition, the panel discusses the significance of the undisputed lightweight title fight between Khabib Nurmagomedov and Justin Gaethje this Saturday on Fight Island, what else sticks out on the UFC 254 fight card, the co-main event between Robert Whittaker and Jared Cannonier and what result would be better for business. The panel also weighs in on how Bellator MMA has gone forward since Scott Coker's press conference to announce the move to CBS Sports. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Aaron Bronsteter: @aaronbronsteter Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck. Once again, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. Thank you for watching and listening. And man, oh man, am I excited for this matchup, ladies and gentlemen? Because I woke up, we had one matchup, and then by the time I dropped my son off at school, both competitors were out of it. So I had a reach.

I reached out to a lot of different people. And finally, we got maybe an even better matchup this time around. Should be a good one. Coming off, another busy week in MMA. We had Belcher 249. We had UFC Fight Island 6. This weekend, of course, UFC 254. Lots to talk about as usual.

So let's get into this great matchup. Another, I guess, number one contender battle of wills. But we'll see what happens here. First, the multi-time champ from the past. The panelists joins us once again. It's been a minute since we've had take. this fiery on the panel from MMAfighting.com. Mr. Jenmishu, how are you?

I'm doing fantastic, Mike. I need you to tell the whole story, though. You're a journalist. You owe it to the fans to tell them what happened. You had people drop out, and then you had me step up, step in. And everybody, everybody is ducking me. Nobody wanted a part of this, except for, of course, the gentleman you're about to introduce.

So full credit to him, it was a foolish decision that he has made. but I respect him for coming to take his licks because he's going up against the goat, the greatest of all time, the greatest BTL competitor ever. So well done, Aaron, well done. Interesting that you say that because many remember his first appearance. Pre-MMA fighting on the show is one of the greatest of all time as he returns to the panel this week. And let me just throw this out there. This is a man that I still hear about from time to time from the viewers,

because many people believe he got the big fat hose job from Casey Lydens. and myself when he faced Jose Young several shows ago. We're going all the way back to BTL episode number three. But he's back from TSN, one of the best of the business, Mr. Aaron Bronsetter. Aaron, welcome back, my friend. I'm happy to be back, and you are right. That was a nonsense judgment. I hate to say that about Casey.

He's a good man. I'm going to pull a Stephen A. Smith here. He's a good man. He's a nice man. He's a good husband. However, I definitely won that last one. and I'm here to get it back. Unfortunately, Jed is an easy mark,

and when you told me it was him, I was happy to jump in. Although I'm sorry, maybe the better guests will come back next week. Mike, I'm sorry they bailed on you and you had to deal with the leftovers. These are pretty darn good leftovers. It's like turkey, it's like Thanksgiving, but like 9 o'clock at night. You want to eat some turkey sandwiches, and I think that's what we got here, some good leftovers.

The leftovers are better than the original dish. Hey, thrown into a sandwich. That's pretty obvious. 100%. Yeah, the stuffing, the cranberries is all between two pieces of bread. That's what we got here. between the bread, between the links. But let's put a bow on UFC Fight Island 6

because we have a lot to get into. Brian Ortega returns from a nearly two-year layoff. He defeats and dominates the Korean zombie. Very impressive stuff. We're going to talk more about him in a moment, I'm sure. But let's discuss the other stars of the event in Abu Dhabi, a la NHL style Jed Mishu. Outside of Mr. Ortega,

who are your three stars from UFC Fight Island 6 and why? I mean, Mr. Ortega, is obviously the first choice. But outside of him, we still had a couple of good showings on this card, I suppose. Look, let's not say that this card coming in was the most hyped, but we did end up getting some really good performances. I mean, kicked off, Saeed never megamette off. I mean, one, 40 seconds, K.O., Sont 41, I'm not sure of the exact time.

Sub one minute, K.O. I know it was against a change of opponent last minute. Overmatched all those things. But, I mean, that hasn't stopped us from being super hyped about Hamzaa Chimea. that he was blown the doors off outmatched opposition. So why should we be any less excited about a man whose last name is Nervig Mettov? We shouldn't. We should be super pumped about this kid to see what he can do in the world's premier organization.

He's obviously going to get a push with the last name like that. And if he has performances like that, then sky's the limit for him. I guess you're making me do three. The second one is just probably the number one as far as actual name brand to come out of this. And that's just going to drop. I mean, she is a former champion, kind of the boogie woman of her division, except for the fact that the new champion is just awesome. But Androge has been in the game for a long time and done things that most women aren't capable of doing from a power, from a COO perspective, bumps up at 125 against a former title challenger and handles business in classic body punching fashion. I mean, automatic new contender, new blood, which is super necessary right now because

Valentina Shifchenko is obviously the best fighter in the sport compared to her peers. And so this is at least an interesting challenger for her. For the third one, I'm going to throw you a curveball here because I know we've got some other obvious ones here. You know, I'm sure Aaron will go with Jimmy Crute just because light, heavyweight needs help desperately and he turned into good showing. But let's have a little more fun with it. Let's go Jun Yung Park.

Anytime you're posting 30, 25 scorecards, that's just a good effort. You know, this guy is a guy who's a striker by nature comes out, shows off his grappling chops. I know John Phillips isn't very good or isn't, I was going to couch it. But nope, he's not very good, which is probably why we should be a little less pumped on Hamzat Chamev. But Jun Yon Park, you know, this guy's not a grappler, and he showed a lot of proficiency on the ground here, going away from his preferred style in general. So give me that for a curveball and to add a little interest here. Aaron, what do you think? Who are your three stars outside of Brian Ortega? Well, I have to agree with Jet on one of them, and that's going to be Jessica Andrage.

I mean, Jessica Androge is really the only intriguing contender now at Flyway. She was before this fight. I mean, Flyweight is just, unfortunately, a bit of a dog's breakfast when it comes to the contenders. And I hate to say that. I know Lauren Murphy, if you're watching, I apologize. I think that Lauren Murphy's very talented and had her opponent not dropped off. She could have made a case. But I think that in this situation, with Jessica Androj coming and beating the number one contender by stoppage in the first round, I mean, she shut Caitlin Chukagin's entire system down with that liver shot. I think you have to give her one of the stars of the night. I mean, I don't think there's much of a question there. Lauren Murphy, I don't apologize. I don't want

you to get the next shot. Give it to Jessica Androge. And I feel no shame in saying that. Well, you're not a gentleman. So let me continue instead of interrupting me. Guram Kutatelade is my second star. This is a guy who goes to Vey. with Hamza Chimaa basically just a lobby for himself to get an opportunity, ends up getting one on short notice and beats Matush Gamrot, who's one of the biggest European prospects to come into the UFC in a long time, was two-division champion in KSW. Kuta Talazze beats him.

I think a lot of people thought that he did beat him, and then he goes on the mic and says that this is BS and that he shouldn't have won the fight and that his opponent should have won. So he's a star in two capacities because, A, you can make a case he did win that fight, and B, he didn't think he won it and said, listen, it should be, he should have won. But he takes it on short notice, comes in, puts on a great performance. So I have to give it to a Kutateladze. And then finally, I'm going to vote for Pedro.

I think Jonathan Martinez looks fantastic against Thomas Almeida. Almeida coming back after a 33-month layoff. You don't know how he's going to look. End up taking the fight at featherweight because Martinez had a bad weight cut last time when he took a short-noticed bantamweight fight. This one bumps up to 1-45. And everybody knows how vicious Thomas Almeida is he was completely neutralized. This was a total no-brainer for the judges.

It was 32-27 across the board. Martinez has put in two great performance. as of late during this pandemic era, coming off of that really bad decision robbery back in February. So I just think he's a real up-and-comer. You look at him at Factory X, and they're putting in some real great work there. I think that he's somebody to watch in this division, not featherweight, of course, bantam weight when he fights at his natural weight class next time around. But this is somebody who's really refined his skills, looked really good,

and came back after what I thought was a real robbery earlier in the year. Mike, just so we're clear, I am now fully expecting at the index. of this when Casey jobs me out of my right and true victory for Aaron to come out and admit that I am the better man and the victor so he can get the star bump that he was just talking about with Coutilade. It's a rigged election. It's a rigged election before it happens. Putting it out there right now, when that inevitably happens, I expect Aaron to say the truth

because he apparently values that. And you know me, I have never placed a premium on the truth. This is a rigged witch hunt. I agree with him. I like all of your picks. actually kind of in the aftermath, I think James Krause should probably be right up there too, because, man, did he jump on an opportunity to start busting on Joachim Buckley, the talk of the town the week before? And everyone's been talking about that. And the video views and the page views for James

Krause are higher than a lot of these guys, which is interesting. And he want to fight on one leg, which is nice. But that helps. I love the Krause thing. I love it because there's the potential that this entire beef is fake and started by a fake Twitter account. And if, that's true, it's going to make me really. Apparently, it's not. Apparently, Buckley used to talk smack on Facebook and send people Facebook Messenger messages all the time. And apparently, Coast took exception to something that happened like before he was even in the UFC. It was like, who's this Bellator guy harassing me on Facebook? So I was surprised too, because this is a very quiet guy, Joaquin Buckley. He seems like a very, just quiet, humble guy. But apparently the braggadocia

travels over to Facebook for him. I remember I was talking to Kevin Holland before his fight with Darren Stuart and he said that Buckley pissed him off so bad that his grandfather actually made him a COVID mask with Holland smacking Buckley across the face. And I asked him like what what what he said to Holland that made him so upset. And he goes, he goes, I'll have to tell you another time. Like, I'm never going to say this during an interview. So apparently, apparently Buckley, uh, apparently Buckley can ruffle. Buckley can ruffle some feathers. But you know, Aaron, I do want to talk about Brian Ortega. I do want to talk about Andragia. You guys already did that for me. But Ortega looked outstanding. I was surprised to see him outstrike zombie for 25 minutes, but he did.

And now it looks, unless something just outlandish happens, he's next for Alexander Volcanovsky in a shot at the featherweight title. So I'm curious because this is one of the questions I had since Saturday, Aaron, from a business standpoint, from planting those seeds to get this division moving again, was this result the best case scenario for the UFC for Volcanowski for everybody involved here? I think from a business standpoint, zombie would have been a better result for them. And zombies got this massive following. That being said, Ortega did put on such a masterclass in that fight.

And going into this fight, I said, why are people sleeping on Ortega suddenly? Like, he had one bad performance against Holloway. He had two years off, changed his team completely. Like, we already knew how good this guy was. Not to mention that zombie at the highest level has never been a huge performer. You know, we saw that thing against Jaya Rodriguez. He was winning that fight for the most part. But a lot of the times, he's lost fights that he should have won in the past.

And there have been times where he gets to a certain level and he can't get it done. Now, we did get to a championship fight against Jose Aldo, dislocated shoulder, very unfortunate result. But I do think that Brian Ortega showed that he was an elite fighter prior to that fight against Holloway. Got injured, had to rehab, had to basically do it all again and put himself back into, you know, back into shape and put himself back together again. And he did so. And, you know, people were talking about the layoff. But look at his opponent, the Korean zombie, goes and does military duty for three and a half years, comes back and doesn't miss a beat against Dennis Bermuda. So I think that layoffs can be treated differently for people. A lot of his

layoff was rehabbing so he wouldn't have been training but he tore his camp down built it back up and now look what we have with brian ortega i think that his performance is something that's going to be a lot more marketable this time around what do you think jenn yeah i disagree with just everything erin said right there i mean there was a lot of really good reasons to doubt brian ortega going to this the first being brian ortega is bad at fighting and i know that that's a controversial opinion but it's one i've had for really long time and it's one that i'm going to keep saying all the way up until he wins the title, taps out Kabid and wins the lightweight title,

and gets inducted into the Hall of Fame as the greatest of all time. Because in all of the career that we have seen him compete in, he has lost every second of every fight up until he won them. And there's certainly something to be said for that for his kind of predatory finishing ability. But I mean, go back and look at his career.

He was just losing to everybody he fought, and then he win. Then he wins. He gets the chaos. He gets the submission. the only person he didn't pull it out on was Max Holloway. So there's not a lot of tape of Brian Ortega beating people up inside the cage for protracted periods, except for this past weekend, obviously.

I mean, you've got to take your hat off to him. Can't say anything bad about that performance. But, I mean, heading into the performance, Brian Ortega hadn't beat, you know, he took the two-year layoff. He did not hold the win over a single currently ranked opponent, a currently ranked featherweight. I think there's a real justifiable argument that even beating zombie or Taked doesn't deserve a title shot at this point. He has one top 15 ranked win right now. I know that that's an incredible win and I'm not going to buck about him getting a shot against Volcanovsky, but he has not done a lot in the context of this division.

I mean, in the time since he has picked up wins that big gap, Volkanowski basically put together his entire run in the UFC. So a lot of reasons to doubt him. good for him. He showed us that, you know, those doubts were misplaced. And, you know, I think beating zombie, I can disagree more with zombie not performing on the biggest stage. I mean, this man has had a career that stretches forever. If you're going to knock him for getting knocked out by Iaier Rodriguez with arguably the greatest COO of all time, like just an insane hell Mary that gets him. Now for me, man, I think zombie's the man. I would have loved to see zombie fight Volcanovsky. I wish they had set that fight. up regardless. I don't think zombie needed another win to get in there, and now I don't think he ever will. But, I mean, I guess Volcanovsky Ortega is going to be okay. And I think it's probably fine.

I don't think you're getting a big difference from a marketing standpoint either way here. But really, they have the best fight they can get for them. The UFC just won't do it. It's Henry Suhuto. That's the fight that should be made from a business perspective. But nobody wants to talk about quadruple-C. Nobody wants to do it. Jed, I mean, I was going to cut you off, but I figured I'd just let you continue to talk because you're just backing yourself into a total corner.

You know, at no point in that rambling and coherent response, you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. You know, everybody in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. And I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. Man, I really appreciate the Billy Madison reference, but we're old. So it's cool. A lot of the new people who do this probably don't know what's going on there because that movie's like 30 years old. I'm a young man. I don't even know who Billy Madison is. It's a great movie. I should look it up. Okay, cool. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a great movie. And the fact you didn't know that. No, I'm just kidding. That was an excellent use of the principle in the quote. And when you have a matchup and around that close, I'm going to lean towards creativity. So Aaron is on the board with the first point of the matchup. But I like to lean towards creativity of the man who quoted a film. What? Well, the idea to quote the film is where the creativity is where the creativity is. Sterectivity stems from Jed. I don't think it's creative. You're working in reverse, Jedd.

You're working in reverse. You've got to work in creative. Creative plagiarism. How is that? If plagiarism is creative, then I have a bone to pick with some of my law school professors. See, there's reasons for all this. Now Jed's fired up. Now Jed's got a little bit of a chip on his shoulder.

And that means, look, I already called what's going to happen. We all know what's going to happen. I'm going to get robbed on the race. I got it. Big the witch hunt. Well, all right. Well, let's move ahead to Saturday because UFC, 2254 is going down. I feel like we've been waiting for this event, the entire

Fight Island trip, and even before that, Habib versus Justin Gachi, the main event for the undisputed 155 pounds strap. This doesn't need much more of a build from us because the fight is amazing. And I have to say, Aaron, just hearing the opinions of a lot of the fighters that I've spoken with over the last few weeks, there are a lot of them who feel that Justin Gachi is going to do what no other man has done before. And that is beat Habib Namauga-Maga-Madoff in the octagon or in any ring or cage on Saturday night. So it got me to thinking, since I haven't heard things this one-sided against Habib in a long, long time maybe ever, is this the greatest lightweight title fight of all time, at least on paper?

I think from an X's nose standpoint, you can make the case. But I just don't think that it has the same allure as Habib v. Connor. I mean, that was such a long time in the making. You look at the promotional materials that had come about from basically a year of promoting this fight. he was coming off of the Mayweather boxing match. There was no bigger star than Connor McGregor. His star could not have gotten higher than it was after that boxing match.

And then he goes in, faces Habib after that whole situation with the trolley being, or the dolly rather being thrown through the window. You had that whole buildup, him flying all the way to Brooklyn to confront Habib and his team. I think that if we're talking about the greatest, listen, from an X's an O standpoint, I certainly think that Gaichi poses a lot of problems. But it's not different than the Habib fights where they say, well, what happens when this happens? How's Kabib going to deal with this? How's Kabib going to deal with Conner's power striking?

You know, the fight starts standing. How's Kabib going to deal with Tony Ferguson on the mat? If Tony Ferguson's throwing up submissions, how's Kabib going to deal with ally Akinto, he's not going to be able to take down? How's Kabib going to deal with this, this, that, and that. He deals with it all the time. And he always ends up coming out on top. And he barely loses any rounds.

He lost one round in his entire UFC career officially. So people always are trying to come up with ways for people to beat Habib. Well, let's see it. I mean, from an X&O standpoint, on paper, I sure think that Justin Gishi poses a lot of problems for him. I don't think this is going to be a walk in the park for Habib, but it could be. I mean, it's been a walk in the park for him in the past. So let's see what happens. In terms of when you're talking about the greatest, I just think the fanfare that was surrounding UFC 229 is what makes that the greatest lightweight fight of all time. Look at the buy rate. Look at the gate for that particular event. It was just a big ticket event. I think that from an X&O standpoint, right now it seems like it can be a fight. where Habib can be, you know, handles a lot of problems and hey, Gachi could win the fight. Who knows? But I think that we need to look at this realistically

and say that until we see somebody do something to Habib outside of Navy winning around, that we should probably just go with what we know. And what we know is that that was a super fight between him and Connor McGregor and possibly the biggest fight in UFC history. Jed, what do you think? Because I understand where Aaron's coming from,

but I think there is a difference between biggest and greatest. Like, biggest, like Connor and Habib, there's just a note about that is the biggest, the biggest 55 pound title fight of all time. Nothing's even going to touch that no matter what happens on Saturday. But as far as like the greatest title fight matchups, is this it? So I agree with you in that there is a difference between biggest and greatest, but no, this isn't it. And I do agree with there and that it's still Connor, Connor Habib. I mean, part of what goes into the greatest, the issue with this question here really is, Khabib is in one fight. He's fought one fight. He's just fought at 28 soon to be 29 times.

There is no difference in what happens. That is part of the uniqueness of him. The fight is always one question. Can you stop the takedowns or not? If you can't, you're going to lose and 29 people have lost. Glacin Tebow, who is a house on legs, is the only person who was able to kind of, you know, to stop that. And then he's still lost anyway. But moving forward and in perpetuity, he was not going to win kickboxing matches against anybody. He can win rounds or time, but he's not going to win them. So by that measure, frankly, I don't think H.E. has a chance here. I know that that probably makes me a little bit of an outsider in that view. I think Habib is going to run through him with little to no effort. It will look similar to Poyer and McGregor. He is just going to beat the brakes off him because he's the best fighter we've ever seen. And that's, that is what it is. And so I don't consider this this fight

that great because it lives with the same contours that the Connor Habib fight did. And I do think that those contours are great. There is, you know, striker versus grappler is the classic matchup. And so there's a lot to build off from there. But everything else about this is just less interesting than the Connor fight. So you get a little bit more because people want to believe the wrestling background is going to keep, give Gatesy a chance. I just don't think it has any chance to matter. And so that negates for me.

But the rest of it, the style personality, the clash of personalities between Connor and Habib, even throwing away the buildup, which obviously was sensational, you've got a humble but very aggressive shit-talker in Habib, and then the definition of playing the dozens in the sport. I mean, everything about them was contrasting in the most interesting ways, and it was always the greatest fight to me building towards. Whenever that finally would happen, it would be the greatest moment in the sport.

And then it was, and just because the fight itself didn't deliver, the fight itself is never designed to deliver. Habib, by his nature, is never going to give you a fight of the year contender. He's going to beat the hell out of somebody. He'll give you a beat down of the year contender, but he's never going to give you a fight of the year. And so this is kind of limited in that action.

So I side with Aaron on this. I do think Habib Connor is the greatest fight for basically everything other than the N-Cage product. I like that after you give me a point for creativity, he just goes and uses my exact answer. Well, apparently you... It would be the opposite of creativity. Apparently, that's how you score points.

You just repeat what someone who is arguably smarter than you says. Fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, I don't have a rebuttal for that. All right. Let me ask you this, Jed, because, I mean, you just wax poetically about it. And you've often said at the show that you feel that Habib is one of the greatest, maybe the greatest of all time in the sport.

He's the best. Justin Grie has that, you know, that crazy still in him. But it's a much more composed crazy. It's used more methodically instead of like every second of every round. Besides the undisputed title and the chance to be the one in 28 and 1, what is that stake for Gagie? Like if he were to do what a lot of people believe he will do on Saturday, what will that mean for Justin Gachie in the grand scheme of things? I mean, I don't think a lot's at stake for Gagy in this. I think this is an all upside fight for him.

I mean, obviously, if he does get the win, tremendous. it's going to launch him, catapult him into the stratosphere, stardom, and all these other things. If he loses, no one's going to knock him. He's still the most exciting fighter that's ever been in the sport. And I don't think that's up for a debate. Honestly, I think that's pretty clear. If he wins, he gets a lot. If he loses, he doesn't lose much.

So there's not a ton being risked, but there's basically everything to gain. And I, but I mean, he's just not going to win, so it doesn't matter. Like, we can talk about it like he's got a chance. He just doesn't. Like, he's going to get dumped trucked. What are your thoughts on that, Mr. Brownsetter? I don't know if that's 100% fair to say. I mean, if you look at who Kabeep is beaten, his resume isn't fantastic.

He's beaten. Connor McGregor is obviously a massive win. Connor McGregor, you can argue, is a top 10 mixed martial arts at all time. And then, of course, the win over Porier. Look at how good Porier's been. That's another good win. But leading up to that, his resume doesn't have much. You got ally Kintan.

You got Michael Johnson. you got ABLE Trujillo. There's a lot of decent names. But I think that a win over Gachi would mean a lot for Habib. And I also think that we do still have some questions to answer that maybe Justin Gitchi could pose. Like if Justin Gichi can stuff takedowns, nobody's been able to do it before. And I mean, like that said, it's a more easier said than done. It's a maybe.

Maybe he can stuff and take down. It's a no. It might be a no. It might be a no. But I still think that Justin Gaci has a better wrestling pedigree than anybody Hamid has fought before. but able to heal had a good wrestling pedigree and got dummied in that fight. So, I mean, who knows?

Let's see. I'm interested to see. I think Gaichi is one of the most exciting fighters. I think Gehji has as much power as anybody he's fought may be saved for Connor. But I think that if you pair really good wrestling or defensive wrestling with the power, that's what everybody thinks is going to stifle Kabib. Again, everybody also thought that Tony Ferguson off his back would be able to sub-Khabib. We've never got a chance to find out.

But I do think that with Gaichi, it's going to be an interesting. fight. I'm not as confident as Jed is that Hamu's going to absolutely truck through him. But in my mind, I'm leaning towards that being the outcome. I think that until we see otherwise, you kind of have to assume that Habib is just going to roll through everybody. So I'm eager to see if Justin Gajee can do otherwise. I would love to see it. I think that it would be refreshing to see somebody actually be able to hang

with Habib. Even if Gachie wins two rounds out of five, like I still think that's a moral victory for him. But Gachie could also knock him out. Who knows? It's M.A. Lots of crazy stuff happens all the time. How does he win two rounds and not knockout Habib. Keeps it standing. I mean, Connor won around and didn't knock out Habib.

Yeah, I think Gachie has a lot more power than Connor. Connor, I mean, I don't know. I don't know that can be substantiated. How many, like, how many, like, 10-second knockouts does Gachie have? Connor has, like, three on his resume. Yeah, but Connor's not, like,

those are kind of an anomalous for him. Like, Connor has a really, like, that's, frankly. Dude, he knocked out Joseoaldo in, like, 13 seconds. Who had done anything to Joseo Aldo before that? Like, Joseo Aldo, had Jose Aldo been knocked down before that? If you'd let me complete my statement here, the thing, the reason I am more interested in the exes and nose of the Connor matchup is because Connor, I mean, he has power. I'm not saying the man has pillows for fists, but he said it before several times.

He's all about precision. His knockout for Aldo, Aldo was running forward and he put one precisely on his jaw. And that seems to me to be a lot more of a possibility to catch Habib than I think Gaiji like just has way more raw power than Connor and so but he says way less likely to land it and he can't stop the takedowns if this was the NCAAs great that wrestling pedigree might matter it is not it is a cage fight and he is he is a way less good athlete than Habibir de Rometov and he is going to get steamrolled and that's just how it is for everybody in the division certainly a possibility yes I am see possibility I mean I don't know we'll see I guess it's a we'll see but I do

I do think Gehji poses unique challenges. That being said, until we see Habib get challenged by anybody, it's hard to say, oh, this guy's going to be, this is the guy. This is the guy. We to take a firm stance, Aaron. I don't know, maybe. Well, listen, this isn't a 100%. You can't go into an MMA fight and say 100% this guy's going to win.

Maybe it happens. I don't know. I would say he's got a very large chance of it happening. And I think that, again, until I see somebody do something otherwise that Habib, I'm going to just assume that he's going to be as dominant as he always has been, and he's still young. So let's see how it goes. I really love this fight, creates this kind of conversation.

And again, I've never, of all the Kabib fights that I've talked about and asked friends about and asked fighters about, never heard it's so one-sided for the challenger or for the guy fighting Habib as I've heard it for Justin Gagey. It's crazy. It's wild, but I can't wait to see what continues to happen in this matchup. As the point for this round goes to Mr. Jed Michoud. He is on the board. I like it. I like what's going on here. This is fun.

This is fun. As we're going to take an even deeper look at this card, Jed Mischu. UFC 254, obviously, he's built around this title fight. There are some important matchups, some fun ones sprinkle throughout this card. So I am curious, outside of the main event, and there really is no wrong answer here, Jed. At least I don't think there is, and I shouldn't have said that because the last time I said that on this show. A panelist said that Kamara Usman was the fighter of the year in 2020. But anyways, that was the past.

What is the storyline? What's the storyline that is caught or will have your attention come Saturday night outside of the main event? What kind of an idiot would pick Kamala Usman for Friday of the year? I hope that I don't work with that guy and collaborate with them on a literal weekly basis. That would be shameful if that were the case. So the correct answer is the co-main event. That's not that fun. And so I'm sorry to not come blazing with takes.

imagine you'll give me an opportunity to dive a little deeper in the card later. But I mean, I think pretty obviously the most interesting storyline is Robert Whitaker. And where he is, you know, he has rebounded with a win from the Disney loss and potentially can get himself another crack at the title here with a win over Jared Canaanier. And on the other side of that, Canineer has basically been handpicked by Israel, by the champion. If he can get through Robert Whitaker, he's going to be the next guy up. If that fight were to happen, that's a super interesting clash of styles. I mean, of course, I'm going to favor a disignor there,

but I think Jared Canineer is at least an interesting guy, and his move to middleweight has just been spectacular, nothing short of it. And so I think this is, you know, I would say this is a more competitive and interesting fight than the main event, probably the most competitive and interesting fight on the card for me, because I think Robert Whitaker is a little over it. You know, I think he's probably the war.

Wars with Joel Romero, the losses. He has two losses to Yowel. Let's just put that out there. But, you know, I think those two losses to Yowel took a lot out of his career. I'd say one, but I got you. Yeah, yeah. There's two losses. At least one.

Yeah, he's lost twice to the greatest fighter we've ever seen, not named to Bede. And that's okay. It happens to everybody. It happened to this in you as well. But, you know, those, he took so much damage in those fights. I do think that he's feeling the effects of that. But, you know, we saw he's able to rebound. He still has plenty left in the tank, even if maybe he doesn't have the

shine that he once did. And a huge step up for Jared Canoneer. Everything about that fight is super fascinating to me. You know, how powerful are the crystals, all of that. So give me the co-main event as far as the next best storyline. What do you think, Aaron? Is that, are you agreeing with the co-main event or you got something else in mind? Well, like Jed said, it's kind of a dumb question. There's only really one storyline that matters outside of this, outside of maybe you could argue, like, can Walt Harris bounce back and get back of the wind column after, obviously the tragic death of his daughter. Wasn't able to do it last time against Overeign.

I'd like to see how he does against Volkov. I think that's a great matchup. But that's not really from a storyline standpoint. I'm going to go with the co-made event, but I'm going to go in a bit of a different direction than Jedded. I don't think that it's about Robert Whitaker. I think it's about Jared Canoneer. You've got Israel and Desonia constantly for months saying that the dark horse

of the division is Jared Candonier. Well, let's see if he is. This is the number one contender in Robert Whitaker. And you've got Jared Canineer, who's looked tremendous at middleweight, getting a crack at him. Let's see if he is the dark horse. of the division because I think a win over Whitaker will get him a title shot. I'm not confident that if Whitaker wins this fight, that

you see Israel versus Whitaker again. I think Israel there's a good chance he can move up to light heavyweight and face Jan Boehovic. Think about it from a promotional standpoint. If Israel moves up beats Jan Boehavich and is now the light heavyweight champion after John Jones vacated the title, like Jones versus Izzy fight with Izzy

is the light heavyweight champion is like that's bonkers. Like that's emotional goal. And John is to talk to legendary Polish power. It works for everybody. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that you could see him say, well, listen, I beat Robert Whitaker in the first round. I know that this is a big fight for Oceania, but right now in terms of the status of the world, they're not sure how long we're going to be until we start seeing stadium crowds again. I mean, I know they could probably do it in New Zealand, given the low coronavirus cases, but are they going to send their crew down to quarantine in a hotel for two weeks in order to make that fight happen in a stadium? Who knows? But be that as it may, I think that we're looking at the wrong party in terms of the comate event in the story. I think that the story is Jared Cannoneer and him proving that he has what it takes to beat a Robert Whitaker and ascend to the next level of this division. Because who's beaten Robert Whitaker outside of Israel and Desauna? And of course, arguably, Y'El Romero, I'll say that. I think

Yowell won the second fight and I think it was fairly clear. I thought that was a robbery. The first one I would give to Whitaker. But that, you know, that neither here nor there, I do think that cannoneer is the story, not Whitaker. No love for Casey Kenney trying to be a hazmat, Hamzaa, part two, trying to get two wins on vital. Nathaniel Wood was on the same card as it. What do you got to say about Nathaniel Wood? Disrespecting Nathaniel Wood? Oh, listen.

Nathaniel didn't win a fight two weeks ago on Fight Island, went home and came all the way back. How many weeks ago did he win? He won on Fight Island, didn't he? In July. I thought he won on during this recent series, no? Am I wrong on that? Correct. Let's get Casey to be wrong on facts.

Let's get Casey to look at the other words. Never be wrong. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Also, if you were looking for a more interesting. interesting. I'm not going to go and say that it was a bad question because I'd never do that to you, Mike. I think you ask great questions. But if you wanted a question that can lead to some more interesting choices, you know me. I love the deep dive. And this isn't even that deep of a dive, but you can't tell me that Tai Trasas and Stefan Strub isn't going to be hilarious and fun. Like, when in doubt, heavyweight's always just amazing. And Stefan's Drew, great personal story, the comeback. Tuivasa hasn't won in like a decade, but he can punch really hard and Stefan Shrews still doesn't know how to be tall. It's just going to be calamitous fun. And I feel no shame for being really excited about that fight. Yeah, see, if you would have asked what fighter you most excited

for outside of the main event, I would have had a different answer than the co-mate event. I want to see I-Won-Kutelaba in that rematch against Anka-Layev. I think that's an awesome fight. I think those are two really strong fighters in that division. And I think Ankoliev has a good chance of being a champion in that division one day. So that would have been my answer, but you know, you can go with whatever question you like, Mike, is your show. Hey, listen, and that's the beauty of this game. Yes, it's the beauty of this game because you can take questions, you can interpret it however you'd like if you want to, for most fun fight or, you know, deep fight, like, however you want to see it.

There's no wrong answers here. Unless you say Kamar Usman is the best fighter of 2020, there are no wrong answers on this show. I forgot Calboy Leveras on this car too. And that's, I mean, that's going to be a good fight just in general because Cowboy Oliver is good at fighting. And this, the Shabakh Rokhmanov, is that right? Did I pronounce that right? Maybe. Let's go with, yeah.

I wouldn't say, yeah. Undefeated prospects, so that's good. And I still maintain that Cowboy is the correct next fight for Hamzot Chameev. I think that's the fight I'd like to see Hamzot take. So I don't know, Oliver has asked for that. So if he can get a win here, get on the mic, maybe he can stir something up for a couple of weeks later down the line and fight island. What do you believe there? Hold on a week down the line and fight island.

This is the last event on Fight Island in 2020. Oh, well, see, now look, now I've been wrong about something too. No, we're even. Perfect. Call it square. I'll take it. Okay. All right.

So we asked this question about something earlier. I think we talked about it in regards to how the main event played out this past Saturday. So, Aaron, what is the best case scenario for the UFC? in this co-main event. Like you got Cannesier, who Adasania, the middle-weight champion of the world, has a ton of respect for.

He's already pegged him as the next guy if he wins. Taking out Whitaker, who was the champ. We've already talked about this. Adisani, dominated him. He's coming off the loss to Till.

Dana White said, well, you mean, you should still make the argument for Whitaker, but it doesn't matter. I mean, really the way that most casual viewers, most people watch sport

are looking in this fight is if Cannoneer wins, he's going to fight to Adisania. If Whitaker wins, they're going to skip over all this. We're doing 205. whether it be Jones, whether it be Polovich, all depends on what happens on Saturday. So what is the best case scenario? A cannonear win or a Whitaker win?

I think from a promotional standpoint, you've got to go with a Whitaker win because, as you mentioned, it opens up a Pandora's box. Because you now have Israel who might say, I don't think I want to face Whitaker again, move up to 205 and then you can build towards that Jones fight. But I also think that if you do a Whitaker and Adesonia rematch and you do it in Oceania at some point in time, I'm like, that's always going to be a big fight there. So if you're looking at promotional value, it's not just about, you know, oh, we've got a new challenger for the middleweight title. And I know that Israel's been building towards Canada being the dark horse of the division. But I think that from a dollars and cents perspective, if you're going to look at it that way, and from a promotional standpoint, I think the better scenario is if Whitaker wins in both cases. If he decides to face Whitaker again and you do that in front of a big crowd, the numbers in terms of pay-per-view for Australia and Oceania have been off the charts when Israel's been fighting.

In fact, in New Zealand, his last fight actually beat the fight with Whitaker in terms of buys in New Zealand. So I think that that's still a mega fight whenever it happens. And I don't think that Canaanier versus Israel is as much fun for the casual fan. I don't think it's as intriguing of a fight. I do think that Israel's built towards that. I just don't think that from a promotional standpoint, strictly promotional, that that's the best case in area. Dad, what do you think? I agree.

The less interesting fight is definitely the guy we haven't seen the champion. absolutely screwed. Nobody said interesting. Promotional standpoint. Yeah. From a promotional standpoint. Making money is the promotional standpoint. That's what you want to do as a promotion is make money. That's what their business is.

Their business model is one that makes money. How often do reruns outperform the original item? Like, it's just, that's just nonsense. Jared Canaaner, the best outcome. Jared Cananier blows the doors off Bobby Knuckles, gets on the mic, talks some trash, kicks up a fight, and that happens. I can explain to you when the rerun outdoes the original I mean, do you have the Australian audience, which is a big crowd,

and they're not going to be as interested if it's not Whitaker in there. They won't be anybody. I don't think anyone's going to be that pumped about a Whitaker. It's a thing that you can do and won't be like miserable. It'll be fine. But everyone knows what happened in that fight. And that's just what it is. And frankly, I don't actually think Adesnia takes it.

I do think he moves up to 205. But at that point, if we're just saying, well, he goes and takes the 205 bell, we're overlooking the legendary Polish power. and I will no longer ever underestimate Jan Belhovic because he's knocked out too many people that I thought should have pistol whip the man. So look, champ, champ is champ and he gets to be champ. And I may pick Addisina if that happened. But Jan Blahovic has earned my respect. And I will not say, yeah, just let Izzy move up, take that belt, set up the John Jones fight.

I respect John Jones. I understand like you just think he's holding the belt from Addison. Come on. Answer this question for me. Jed, answer this question for him. If you were to do us a poll of every UFC fighter and say, who's the most beatable champion right now in the UFC? What do you think, though, the number one answer to that question is going to be at any division?

I mean, I don't know. No, you do know. You know the answer. You know the answer. It's 100% clear with the answer. And there's no disrespect to Jan Bojavich, but people think they can beat Jan Boehlovich. And that's because we haven't seen Jan Boehavich to bend the title. I'm very, I'm not going to say that.

I've been impressed by Jan. I think Jan is a great guy. I really like Jan. I think that he's a good role model and a good person to be the champion. But I also think that if you ask people around the – like, if you asked the fighters, you did a poll, and it was an anonymous poll, and you said, who is the most beautiful champion right now? That I think far and away, it would be Jan. Yeah, but like, what does that have to do with anything?

Realistically, it does. It has to do exactly what's your argument was. My argument is that we're overlooking Odissania, and yours is, well, everybody's doing it, so it's okay. Who said we're overlooking Adesia? You are, we're overlooking Jan Bolhovic. Sorry, I misspoke. And yours is, well, everyone's doing it, so that's okay? It is okay, yeah.

I mean, that's the hard. How would that make any suits? If Yan Blahovic ends up beating Israel, like, you built this massive European star. Like, I think the UFC would love to see Yan beat Israel. I think you built a slightly bigger star, but you've also just. If he beats Israel? Yeah, you've built a slightly bigger star, but you've really just cratered your existing big star. Yeah, that would be.

bad, but I mean, people have to lose. You know, like, eventually fighters will lose in the UFC, you know? Yeah, I think you're counting a lot of chickens, and I think that it just makes a lot. That's the purpose of this question is to count the chickens. We're being asked to count the chickens here. You're counting chickens like

six years down the line. I'm saying, right now, the best thing that happens is very obviously, Jared Kennedy here beats the breaks off Bobby Knuckles and sets up a pretty good middleweight title fight. And after that, yeah, after that is he's just going to go fight John Jones anyway. Like, he can do a good title fight or maybe a rematch with Robert Whitaker, maybe not a bunch

of, and nobody's really got up to about anything. Options are what promotions love. You don't like being written into a corner of your promotion. They need options. You want to make, you want to monetize your stars. Yeah, if I'm stepping up to the plate, I'm not looking for the hardest pitch to hit. Give me something down the middle to launch out into the strategy. That's the way you Dana White thinks. He likes just easy matchups that are just going to the next that's the next rightful contender. The final trip to Fight Island in 2020 creating a lot of discussion. That trip comes to a close on

Saturday. This round closes with the point going to Jedmishu. Jedmishu. What a battle. Never a doubt. What a battle. I stood on that for a little while as you guys are going back and forth. But you know what? There's no better way to close out regulation in a battle quite like this than talking about Bellator.

That's right. Bellator returned stateside this past Thursday night with Bellator 249, an absolutely picturesque Uncisfil, Connecticut and Mohegan Sun Arena. Chris Cyborg runs through Arlene Blanco in the main event. First submission win of her career retains her title in pretty easy fashion. They lose the co-main event. and a couple of hours before the main card's about to start. A lot of wild and wacky stuff in the prelims.

But the ratings were at least on CBS sports here in the United States and the overall listings. Non-existent. You couldn't even see him. In fact, I looked at it this morning and I laughed a little bit because old reruns of the Cleveland show, a high school football game, reruns of ridiculous on MTV, all charted in the top 150 on Thursday night. Bellator did not.

And Jed says that the reruns are never as good as the original. Cleveland show. Reruns of the Cleveland show beat Bellator, which is crazy. So let me ask you this, Jed, because we talked about this right after Scott Hooker made the announcement, super early in this CBS sports era. But since the big reveal has been made, they've had some events, they've had title fights, they've made a ton of really good prospect and free agency signings, huge main event at next week's Bellator event between Musassi and Lima.

How would you grade what we've seen from Bellator since Scott Coker had that presser and made all of these different announcements? I feel so bad for Scott Coker because he is objectively good at his job. Like he does all the right things. He makes the moves that make sense. He is a good promoter. By all account, seems like a good do. Like he's not trying to lock people into restrictive contracts or abuse his workforce or, you know, take advantage of them to to personal for personal gain or any of those other things that potentially

other people in combat sports may do and he just cannot win for losing like he everything that he's done I think has been good the last few months I think the fights they put together the prospect signings that you know they're committed effort to European MMA and hosting events they are going to Paris putting on events in Milan and staying focused on Italy in that regard. All of these are really great ideas and concepts, you know, letting Michael Chandler walk away, you know, not trying to get into a bidding war and supporting him publicly and saying, hey, his time, his journey with us is done. When he's done doing what he needs to do, there's a spot for him to come back here.

And maybe Michael Chandler will be the first inductee into the Belator Hall of Fame. He does everything right and he just can't get a damn bit of track. And I don't know the answer, man. It's tough because the results are not there with the process. And it's been that way for him for quite some time, honestly, before Bellator. And we're just seeing it again. I don't know if it's just the environment. I don't know if people just aren't as interested in some of these things as the MMA media is pretty pro-one.

But something is not working from a ratings and a number standpoint. And that means that they're going to have to change. things up, you know, if they're not getting the traction with what they thought, they might have to go back into the spectacle side of things or be less built around prospect development. And while that's fun, don't get me wrong, when I get my time as the champion after the show, we're going to talk all about spectacle of MA, but it's not what Belator has been lately, and it's not what I think we collectively want it to be. And so, again, I just feel bad for Scott Koch-Bel-Tor because he's doing it.

doing all the right stuff and it's not getting him the results that it should. What do you think, Aaron? Like, is it just like time? Is it getting used to a new network, old habits, like waiting for the right fights? I mean, Chris Cyborg is a pretty big star for them, but it just doesn't seem to be translating in the ratings in the U.S. Like, what's going on here? What do you think they've, how do you think they've been doing here?

The problem is the fights. Nobody's tuning into them because nobody's interested. They haven't built anything that is worth tuning into. When the featherweight Grand Prix comes back, that is worth watching. I'm excited for that. The Nemcov knockout over Bader was, that's a great highlight, and it's good. And, you know, they keep trying to push this narrative that they have the best light heavyweight division in mixed martial arts. Great.

And sure, maybe you can argue that. I'm up. Somebody who would. But I just don't think they're getting any traction because the fights aren't good. They've got James Gallowher fighting people nobody's heard of again. Michael Page is fighting people, nobody's heard of again. There's no competition at all for Chris Cyborg. People talk about Katzangano.

Captain and Gano just got into a decision with somebody nobody's heard of. We need to appeal to people by creating stars. And unfortunately, during the Coker era, they haven't been able to build any of their own stars. A lot of their great signings from before have fallen flat on their face. I mean, I think Antonio McKee Jr., or A.J. McKee, he's somebody who I think has a really bright future. I think Patsy Mix was a great signing, and he's looked really good. But if you look at like Ed Ruth has fallen on his face, you look at Tyrell Fortune, he's fallen on his face. Aaron Pico has fallen on his face.

I still think that there's hope for him. He's still very young. I just think that all of the moves that they've made that are supposed to push them forward and end up being two steps backwards. And they just aren't building household names in the sport. And that's the big problem with Bellator. You know, I would like to see them succeed. I think the more competition, the better.

But they lost arguably one of their top three names to the UFC, like just recently. So how can you say in the last two months have been good for them when one of their biggest names has left? And you look at the biggest stars in the sport. And a lot of them were built by Bjorn Rebney. You look at the Pitbull Brothers. They're two of the biggest names. You look at a lot of the prospects that have had success.

A lot of them were from the Bjorn-Remney era. So in the amount of time the Coker's had to turn the ship around, he hasn't been able to do that. And I don't think CBS Sports is the answer either. I don't even know if they have as big of a footprint as the Paramount Network. In Canada, I have people messaging me, where can I watch Bellator tonight? They don't know. These are MMA fans that have no idea where to watch the events. We don't get CBS Sports Network.

I think we might get CBS Sports Network here. I don't even know. You have to look it up. But people are having, people want to watch the fights. they can't find them. Like, what's going on with this promotion where people aren't even able to consume their product? Like, I want to give them the benefit of that.

I really want them to succeed. I think that they have a lot of really quality prospects. I think their signings lately have been awesome. Usman and Mago Medov is supposed to be a big up-and-coming star. Mago Medov is a big star as well. Like, he's the last guy to beat Piotrion. He's a good fighter. Like, they're making the right moves.

But it seems like none of them are panning out. And they end up signing a lot of the UFC's. fighters, and then those fighters don't end up having a lot of success. I mean, Bader, of course, is certainly one of the exceptions. But, you know, like, then they headline with, like, Phil Davis versus Musassi. Like, do you expect that fight to be good? Like, when I saw that fight, I'm like, I'm not going to watch that. It's not going to be a good.

Did you think that fight was going to be good? Anybody think that fight was like, was anybody really jonesing for a Phil Davis and Leoto Machita fight in 2020? And your headlining cards with that? No, no, no. I mean, sometimes they're the worst enemy and they can't get out of their own way. They need to do something. And I think the tournaments, the tournesty, the everybody was getting so sick of were better than better than these events.

I hate to say it. The tournaments, the tournament format that they had was better. Everybody was like, oh, the tournament format is so tired now. And then they start doing all these regular events and everybody's like, it's not getting any steam. The Revenue era was better than the Koker era. I hate to say it. And nobody says it out loud, but it's true. And I think, God Koker, like you said, Jed is a good promoter.

And the fighters really like him. He makes good signs. He makes all the right moves. But it hasn't gotten any momentum, and they need to work on that. They really do. You know, the fight I was most excited for this past weekend was Sayada Wad versus Mandelanalo. It ends with like a low blow in two minutes. And I'm like, it took all the air out of the room.

I'm trying to enjoy the event. And like, I know what's going to happen in the cyborg fight. So should I continue tuning in? Sure, I like watching a cyborg fight. But did anybody think that she was going to lose that fight? Like, was there, if you would have pulled 100 people and know anything about M&A, it was like, do you think that some, that an Australian fighter with a boxing guy? is going to beat Chris Cyborg?

It's like, no, no, I don't. So, I mean, I want to watch them, and I want to watch the events, and I like a lot of the stars that they're bringing up, but it seems like the Michael Page fights that are the most fun are the ones where he's picking on people that he shouldn't be in the cage with. James Gallowher, whenever he's met really high-level competitions that he loses or doesn't end up being a fight, or the fight falls apart. Like, they just can't get out of their own way, and I don't know what they can do to turn it around, but they have to do something because, like you said, the ratings

were none, you said they're non-existent. I don't even know, do they track CBS Sports Channel in terms of ratings? I don't know. I think so. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. But that's the thing. There's not enough information out there for us to be able to make like a real true observation

about where they're at. And the UFC have been unsung heroes this year by what they've been able to do in the pandemic era. They wouldn't shut down. Belator does shut down and then they come back with like okay cards. I know we're saying this like less than two weeks before their biggest fight of the year, arguably.

Musasi versus Lima. Like, I can't wait to watch that fight. I will be tuning into that fight. I'll find out where CBS Sports is in Canada. And it's on the zone in Canada. But I won't watch that fight. I'll go out of my way to find that however I can. That's an awesome fight.

And asking this question now is a little bit unfair because I think a lot of people are looking forward to that fight. Nothing's done it for me so far this year. Nothing. I'm sorry. The Nemcov-Bater fight I'll say was good. That I was a little bit excited about. Archelaide Mix was good. That was good fight.

Arceladda Mix was a good fight too. Yeah, Arcelotet makes me a good fight. I'm a big fan of both those guys. They're both great fighters. And I think that both them have a great future. So, yeah, that's a good fight too. And I tuned into that one. But so if the other fights, like, and then they do these international events.

I'm like, I don't know. Like, they do them live to tape, like still in the year 2020. They're like, I'm on Twitter and like people in Europe are like, oh, this guy just won. It's like, okay, well, no reason for me to watch tonight. Oh, here's the highlight. Okay, great. Cool. It's happening in real time and they don't show it until later.

On a digital platform. They don't show it to later. They don't show it live on a digital platform. What are we doing here? And if they are, I don't know. I didn't know they were doing that now. They certainly weren't doing it last year when I was asking saying, hey, is this going to be on the zone when it's actually happening?

They're like, no. I'm like, but I'm a subscriber to this service and you're showing me stuff on tape delay. Like in 2020. Is there an argument against this? Like, is there anybody you can be, well, I kind of get this. No, nobody gets it. Nobody gets it because it's a bird brain move. And I don't know if it's part of their rights.

but it never should have been. And like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm running out of gas here. I'm sorry for you, Aaron. You have been wronged that you cannot watch the Costello Van Steenis, Fabian Edwards fight. I know. And I could not watch that life. By the way, you derisively spoke about every other card they put on saying that you won't watch it.

So you're one of those people who I'm not going to watch it. But if you're not even going to give me the option to watch it, screw yourself. I should have the right to tell you I don't want to watch it. If it's a good fight, I'll watch it. I will watch it. it. But if I already know the result, I'm not watching it. I'm not watching it if I know the results. If they did Lima versus Musasi in Europe, I wouldn't watch it if it was on tape delay. I would find out the result. You'd like just go on Twitter.

Obviously not. They sketch, look, look, on a core concept, the tape delay is a dumb thing in 2020. Like, there's just not a real great argument. But it's harder for me to swallow that argument when you prefaced it by saying, I wouldn't watch this garbage anyway. But oh, by the way, How offensive is it that I don't get to watch this? I would watch Michael Page if it was live. I would watch it. And I did watch Michael Page. I think Michael Page is awesome.

He's must-see TV, but like let me watch it live. Why don't I have the option to watch it live in 2020? I don't know. It just feels like there was a lot of, I took a tactic out of your book there and just let you ramble because it felt like you contradicted yourself about 70. I didn't contradict myself about anything. What did I contradict myself about?

Well, they're not developing prospects, but they've signed a bunch of prospects. Yeah. Well, they haven't developed them. They signed them. And then the ones that they have signed, they haven't developed property. How do you not develop? It's Ed Ruth, they brought him along. He fought a bunch of people.

And at some point, you have to win the fights. Like, oh. Ed Ruth looked like a great prospect. When they signed it, it was a big story. He was like a potential Olympian. He's got this crazy range. What does Scott Coker do to screw up Ed Ruth? I don't know.

Like, Ed Ruth could have. fought better. I don't know. It just didn't work out. And same with Pico. They kept matching Pico out with guys that were better than, like, they didn't develop Pico. They should have done the Michael Page formula with Pico, but they didn't. They threw him in there with guys that beat him. Like, I think Aaron Pico is so much fun to watch. I love watching Pico and I'll watch all of his fights. But, unless they're on tape delay, I'll watch all of his fights. But I just, like, I just think that they can't get out of their own way sometimes and it's a problem. Like, are you just against watching reruns? Because we know your opinion on reruns. You're very

into them. I wouldn't watch it live and then watch it again at night if that's what you're saying. I would not do that. So they didn't air the MVP card on DeZone? Not live. No, I think they paid. I was like, I watched the page fight live and I don't know what. Like it was on CBS Sports, but maybe that's why.

Yeah, I don't know. But it seems like that's been, I don't know if that one was live or not, but I just know that part of their formula has been showing these fights on tape delay for no reason. Yeah. Like you have a digital platform. The galher car is on YouTube. It was on their YouTube page. People didn't even know about it.

They didn't even know. They don't know about it. They don't know where to find it. That's a problem. Like, you need to get your messaging right. It seems easy. The UFC sends me an email. Hey, watch this tonight on whatever channel.

Yes, sure. But I already know what channel it's on because it's always obvious. I mean, listen. Has anybody ever said, why can't I find this UFC car? Where am I supposed to watch? this. They know. They know the answer to that question. I have that statement before. That was years ago, mind you. But certainly, I mean, the fact of the matter is the U.S.S. During the Fox, during the Fox, that was on FX. Where is it? It makes sense. Fuel TV. Like, it was no one

ever had any idea. Yeah. Fair enough. But they're bad. They're past that right now. Yeah. I mean, they're just a massive corporation. And Bellator has good funding and backing, but. Oh, yeah, Viacom is a small corporate. Small potatoes. Viacom. Who? Who's Viacom? Let's not act like Bellator is top of the list on Viacom's concerns. Yeah, but you're saying that their company has nothing. They don't have the resources.

No, I'm saying they have good backing, but their company is still small. Like, you can work for a company that is owned by a conglomerator Fortune 500, and you're still left fairly autonomous. And, you know, you have some benefits to that. But they're under the show sports umbrella now. Like, they have resources. Like, this isn't a flyer. by night regional promotion. They've had many years to get it right. Yeah, and their resources put them

with CBS Sports, which is your issue here is largely with CBS Sports. No, I don't know about CBS, but I don't know where to find CBS Sports. Exactly. I'm in Canada. I don't know. And then people are messaging me like, I'm supposed to tell them where to watch Bellator in Canada. I'm not a TV guide. Then how is I have to go find out where to watch it so I can tell them? They're not providing you a better viewing experience as Canada. That's true though, but who cares? They're not providing anybody a good experience if they're showing stuff on tape delay. Nobody wants to watch stuff on tape delay. That's true.

They seem to have, they're at least trying to fix that problem. They, in the US, they fix it. Whenever I asked about, they're like, oh, it's the outside of our control. Well, why would you sign a deal where you can't show your own product live? Because they get money? Is that too obvious of an answer? Do they? I mean, it seems like now they're burying the zone.

Like, they're not even, they don't even want to, they're distancing themselves from the zone. Well, they should have done that immediately. It's called DeZone. I can't argue with you on that. I cannot argue with you on that. That one you win. I'll give you the point on that one. Oh, he gave me the point.

It's done. Three to one. On that one point, I'll give him, I'll give him a point on that one point. How could you not give Aaron the point in this round? Three, because he just gave me the point.

It's a three to one victory. We're done. He gave you a point inside the point. The point inside the point. I give you a fraction. You got like a decimal point. It's just like the big short. How does the.

overarching point not score if the one at the basis of it doesn't get there. The point inside the point goes here. The full point goes here. I'm victorious. You've got a whole new round to make up for it. So it's all good. That whole rant was amazing. I fight this last round under protest because I've already won. Listen, I want Bellator to do well. Like, I'm not, I'm not an anti-Belotor guy. I think that they have a, like, a decent product and some good up-and-coming talent. I just don't think they're doing it right. And I don't know what the answer to that is, but it seems like they can't get out of their own way sometimes. I like, I mean, obviously this card next week is pretty damn good. You get Musassi Lima for the title.

That's great fight. Nick Newell's back. Even Jake Hager is going to be on this card. Jack Swagger will be fighting. And then some good matchmaking with Jared Skagans making his Bellator debut is going to fight Toby Misex. I mean, there's some good fights in this card. If Musassi Lima doesn't end up on the top one, it's a great fight. Good card.

I mean, that's a good card. But the last two months, they have, like, there haven't been a lot of standout cars the last two months. And that's, like, I don't know what that is. They had a lot of time to put it together, had months off. Yeah. And then the Featherweight Grand Prix is coming up next in a couple of weeks. And good on them for France first. I think that's a big move for them going into Paris.

I think that's good for them. So they do a couple of things right here and there, but it just seems like the overall product has not grown for whatever reason. Yeah, it's hard to put your finger on. But, I mean, listen, I think Aaron said it best. We all want Bellator to do well. It's good for everybody. Aaron's going to get the point as we head to the knock our round. I can't freaking wait for this.

What a shocking revelation. We never go to the knockout round on the show. But there is one question left. Each competitor is going to have 60 seconds to answer said question. They have no idea what I'm going to ask. But once they finish up, Casey Lydden, the judge, the jury, the executive producer, will render the final decision. So, Jed, you get the option here because you are a former winner. You are a former champion.

Would you like to go first or would you like to go second? I like the lead-in for Judge Jurian executive producer instead of execute. What's he talking about? I'm just buying time so you can have more time to repair. I'll go ahead and take the lead. Why not? I can be done. I've already won.

This can just bury him even further. I am the champion. So sure, I've never actually gone first. So let's do it. Okay. It's funny enough because this day has just been bananas between trying to find guests and time switches and all that stuff that probably like 10 minutes for the show. I came up with the final question. Like this is what we're going to do.

And it turns out that Jed already partially answered the question. So we're going to add a little bit of a piece to it because we have let some time pass since his quick knockout win over one Gerald Mearsher out the third. And we've seen a lot of matchmaking ideas, callouts, et cetera. So a two-part question, Jed, because I think everybody knows where we're going. here we're talking Hamsat Shamiya, ladies and gentlemen, who still doesn't have his next fight booked. And we talked about how brilliant the move was to double book him. And it turns out the whole thing was smoke and mirror. So it was like a moot point to even talk about the double booking because the Damian Maya fight wasn't as done as originally laid out by Dana White.

So the question is for you, Jed. It's a two-parter. How would we grade the UFC in this Shami of booking and hype department now since the Mirschart win? And at this point, after hearing him speak, seeing and hearing options. You want Cowboy Oliveira. Why Cowboy Olivera for December 19th? The ball goes well this weekend. 60 seconds on the clock and your time starts now. So for grading the UFC, I still think they're doing a really good job with it.

Even if the Damia Maya fight didn't happen, the double booking thing is built this aura around Hamzaat, which is pairing with what he's done to be this indestructible guy and people are really interested into him. I think at this point he's probably the fighter of the year. Maybe that changes. but I think booking-wise, they're doing it okay. I want to see Cowboy O'Levara. I think that's the best fight that makes sense for him

because Cowboy-Livera is the kind of right test for development. Well, we know about Hamza. I wrote about this actually past weekend. We just know very little about Homestead at this point. We know he can grapple and he punches hard and he's really good athletically. But we haven't actually seen him fight against a real test. And Alex Olavera is going to athletically challenge him

and not just be someone who gets rolled over. I'd like to see him take that. step before he got really in there with the top 10, top 15 opponent. And then after that, double book him for that. So do Allent toll there. And then Chris Wyden said he wanted it. Fine. Chris Wyden, you get the business next. Okay. Jedmishu has given his answer. Aaron Bronsetter, same question for you. 60 seconds on the clock. It is Shamaiv Mania here in 2020. And it continues right now. Your time starts now. I think they've handled it great because we're still wondering who he's going to face.

They keep teasing who it's going to be. It's going to be Neil Magni. Throw him in the deep end. Let's have him face Leon Edwards. They don't want to give Leon Edwards a title shot. And everybody thinks this guy is like a world beater in Shemayev. And then I spoke to a lot of odds makers. And they think that he would be favored over most of the welterweight and middleweight division.

Let's fast track this guy. Leon Edwards doesn't want to fight anybody, it seems. Nobody wants to fight Leon Edwards because they don't think that there's any clout in fighting Leon Edwards. Let's chase some clout. Hamza Shemayev versus Leon Edwold. Let's fast-packed this guy right to the top of the welterweight division. The way that he dominated those guys, I'm sold on this guy. I want to see him fight the best of the best already.

I know that you don't want to fast-track guys, and I talked about Pico earlier and all that. Leon Edwards, nobody wants to fight this guy. It seems like they don't want to push him to the championship level. Let's give him Shemayev. If he beats Shemayev, now he beat this guy that everybody thought was going to be unbeatable. And if Shemaya beats him, he's right there in the mix for the title. And I think that they want to fast-track this guy. They want to build a big name out of him.

So that's my pick. I don't think it's going to happen. but if I had the book, Leon Edwards would be his opponent. Chad, what would you like to say in response to this? Because you reacted in just a hilarious way right away, and I wonder why. Because he said it himself. Aaron Pico, who knocked out Leandro Ego in spectacular fashion, but giving him Henry Corrales is a bridge too far,

and we've ruined this spectacular prospect. Hamzaa Chima has beaten nobody nearly as good as Leandro Ego, and we're going to give him Leon friggin' Edwards. Have we lost Let's do it. Fast track time. Let's go. Let's go.

Everybody's confident in this guy. Everybody says he's going to be a champion one day. A man who speaks out of both sides of his mouth deserves to have them permanently close. Let's get the ball rolling. Let's get the ball rolling. Leon Edwards, baby. You want a good main event? Give him one of the top guys.

Also, Leon Edwards never produced a good main event either. What are we talking about? Yeah, but now we would. Don't you think people would want to tune in to see what would happen in that fight? see if this guy's for real and if Leon Edwards smokes him now Leon Edwards is like wow he beat that guy that nobody thought

he was going to beat I don't think anyone cares about Leon Edwards but they would after he beat Shamiyev if they hype up Shemayev and say this guy this guy's the next guy to beat questionable at best he's still Leon Edwards and Leon Edwards doesn't fight

wrestlers ever now you've got a good wrestler that's going to challenge him in that regard I think it would be a fun fight and I think people would tune in to see it Wow I honestly Honestly, I mean, this whole game has been two differing opinions, and I love it so much.

I want five more questions. People are going to kill me by Leon Edwards. Everybody thinks that this guy, oh, he hasn't beaten anybody. Look at what he does in the cage. The guy's a monster. He's just an absolute beast. He's crushing people. Pretty easy to be a monster.

And you talk about Pico. They're grabbing people from the regional scene for Pico to face. These are UFC fighters he's beating. You're right. Hamzaa Chimajemad is a monster because he dump trucked John Phillips who put a phenomenal grappling display John Phillips has a UFC win and Gerald Mirchart has the most submission

wins in middleweight history. You heard of him? He's good. Good fight. Gerald Mirchart looked like he was a terrified. That was the step up with Gerald Mirchart. And how did he respond to that? Gerald Mirchart looked defeated instantaneously and then actually was defeated instantaneously. So it worked out really well.

That was the test. Everybody said that was the big test. Let's see how he does against this guy. Pass the test with flying colors. So let's see it. It fast-factor guy. I'll tell you what. No matter how I feel or Jed feels or Aaron feels, it only comes down to the opinion of one man. And that man is the judge, E. Casey Leiden. And I know how Casey thinks about this whole situation, or at least how he did when this whole phenomenon started.

So I am fascinated to hear who is going to come out victorious. So we turn it over to you, Casey. What do you think? You've heard the arguments. How do you rule? Well, first of all, good day, gentlemen. I don't understand why we have a minute timer. Let's just put that out there.

Rebuttals in the ground as well? I was in there for the minute, and everybody started asking questions. You know, I actually, I made my decision at the minute point, but then at the two-minute point, I kind of changed. And at the three-minute point, I was like, hmm, not good arguments here. So you're making me work overtime now The draws Yeah

The majority draw The mustache takes somebody Oh man I feel like those are groin shot in there somewhere I could count All right You're a winner Mr. Jedmishu

Oh man It was the only rightful decision I already won in regulation anyway So that's how we get here This was the best, this was the overall pound for pound best match of maybe of all time. Hey guys, confetti is falling. It's the two goats. It's the co-beats.

When Cowboy Olivero loses this weekend, his answer's going to suck, so whatever. Your answer is bad objectively anyway, so then I'd just be tying your bad in the eyes of almost everybody. But I wholeheartedly believe he can give Leon Edwards a run. I, maybe. To steal your answer from way back, maybe. We haven't seen anything. to prove that, but maybe. We haven't seen anything to prove otherwise.

That's very optimistic of you, Aaron. I'm just going to take a moment to shower in the confetti that's raining upon me, the Victor. Yeah, so while you're showering, you have 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about, good, bad, indifferent in the sport, and maybe some camsoda, whatever you want to talk about. Wow. It's like you know me, Mike.

I will just leave and say, Casey, I wasn't going to reply, but then Mike asked me to reply, and I couldn't not say it. So thank you for not judging. against that. But yeah, my time is devoted to Cam Soda. If you aren't aware, Cam Soda is the best thing

that happens in MMA, and they have their next event. It is scheduled for November 14th. It is partnered with Fight Dojo or Full Metal Dojo, sorry. I don't know anything about what's going to go on this card, and frankly, none of us probably will for weeks to come.

But whatever ends up happening will be amazing. I have spoken with the Fight Dojo guys, or the Full Metal Dojo guys, and they've got a lot of ideas on the cutting room floor from their first iteration, and maybe some of those will make in here. It's going to make you feel weird and a little bit icky inside, but it's also just the best time you can have watching fighting. So November 14th, Cam Soda comes back. Round three, baby. Fight Circus time.

Casey now knows he made the wrong decision, but congratulations to you anyway. Casey loved fight circus because it's the best. I'll ask my mic for a second there. I think we're back. Okay. Your audio's still messed up. There you go. You're back.

You're back. I was laughing so hard that I pulled the cord of the damn microphone. This is such an amazing show. Aaron, any final words for the people? This is as close to a draw as you could have gotten here. No, I got nothing. I'm just, I'm still floored by the camsoda promotion. I don't really know what to say after that.

There's nothing I can say, really, that would be better than that. I mean, that's just that's a very odd. and now we all feel awkward. So congratulations to Jeddah. Who's had a better year? Cam Soda or Bellator. Cam Soda, I've told me. I'll take that up next on the next edition.

I was a clip hanger. There's two bucks. When we do end of year things, I'm legitimately putting Fight Circus as in my event of the year. And Alex is going to too, and we're going to have enough to make somebody right about it.

So like you'll have that being in like second place over like in terms of aggregate than Bellator potentially. Maybe. Let's see how it goes. If this next event comes through, I could have to do nothing but talk fights Cam Soda forever. Cam Soda is the best.

Cam Soda is... Look what you've done, Casey. What could you've done? Maybe there's a kid behind you. Yes. Hey. Yeah, he's been bugging me. He's like, when can I go?

So there he is. Now you're on. Confetti flying. Thank you very much, Grayson. Thank you, Aaron. Thank you, Jed. Thank you all for watching and listening. Casey Liden on the production side, the iconic voice of Esther Linn leading us in.

I am Mike Heck. We'll see you back once again next week on Between the Links. Enjoy UFC 254. Good night, everybody. I hope you guys. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck. Brought to you by MMA Fighting, a production of Vox Media. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.