MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 26 | Deiveson Figueiredo, UFC 255 fallout, AJ McKee’s Future, Mike Tyson vs. Roy Jones

Episode Date: November 24, 2020

Check out episode 26 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jose Youngs and Jed Meshew as they discuss Deiveson Figueiredo’s quick submission win over Alex Perez at UFC 255 and his star potential, Valentina Shevchenko’s fourth successful title defense over Jennifer Maia, whether or not the 125-pound queen was rusty and what’s next for Mike Perry.  In addition, the panel weighs in on the new lineup of UFC 256 with the loss of Petr Yan and Aljamain Sterling, and the addition of Figueiredo vs. Brandon Moreno for the flyweight title, as well as the return of Tony Ferguson against Charles Oliveira. They also discuss AJ McKee’s future following is incredible submission of Darrion Caldwell, UFC Vegas 15, Mike Tyson vs. Roy Jones Jr., and more.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links, your host, Mike Heck. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a special Thanksgiving week edition of Between the Links here on M.AFighting.com. Hope you're all having a wonderful start to the holiday season, and I am thankful for this week's matchup on the program,

the highly anticipated rematch. Let's get right after this thing and introduce the combatants. First, back-to-back wins under his belt for this man from MAAfighting.com, the A-Side, live chat, and more. Mr. Jose Young's back from Las Vegas. How are you, sir? Have we started the recount yet? Have we all agreed that I won 5-0 last week?

And there's no reason we should have gone to a chance. I get what everyone's, what the deal is. It has to be two-to-two, going to the fifth. But let's be realistic. I mopped the floor with A.K. Lee. I just want to leave it that. Fair enough. And back on the show after a couple weeks off, also from MAAfighting.com, deliver the heat on the UFC 255 live preview show we did on Friday. Mr. Jed Michoud.

Jed, how are you? And was Fight Circus, Volume 2, everything you hoped it would be or more? It wasn't more, but it definitely was everything I hoped it would be. And frankly, it's the only reason I'm here. When you reached out to me and said, hey, we've got this bum, we'd like you to just come give them the work. I was like, ah, I've already done that, been there, done that. Like Habib, I don't need to retrace my steps. But then I remembered, oh, I'll get to have a great opportunity to talk about Fight Circus and where they're going next.

So sure, why not? I'll take some time out of my day so I can prompt the best promotion in mixed martial arts. There you go. Well, we're not going to start with Fight Circus, but because while that event was happening, the UFC, was putting on their November pay-per-view event, UFC 255. We saw two title fights, both champions retained. But let us start with the man who ended the night.

Davis of Figueros submits Alex Perez in just under two minutes to retain his title. The guy is coming off like a superstar. He's looking the part. He's performing like a superstar. The English is starting to come along. If you watch the post-fight press conference, managing the weight a lot better, the guy was the star of the show coming out of Saturday night. Jed, let us begin with you.

I know it's kind of a loaded question, but A, what did you think of his performance? And B, I mean, just how good is Davis and Figuerre? I mean, his performance was obviously fantastic. There's not anything to think about it other than A plus. You know, he took a guy, and on that preview show, we talked about how Alex Perez is probably not getting as much love as he should know that he is a guy coming off the contender series, but Good wins under his belt had an avenue to victory. and he was supposed to be the better grappler,

and he gets tapped in sub two minutes. It was just an all-around excellent performance. I loved the transition to the scissors sweep or whatever from Figurato while he was getting his leg hoisted in the air. Just a really great performance from him all around. And, you know, I'm excited to see how much he can take this division forward, if he can at all. You know, I wrote about it for the site after the event.

Figurato, I don't know. I don't think he's going to be a star. I do think there's just sort of a ceiling to what any 125er can pull off in the sport. They're very small. But beyond that, I think he can be a valuable asset to the company, if only because they're going to view him like that. Demetrius Johnson won the best fighters of all time. But they never, the UFC really never liked DJ that much, at least in the, and their actions never showed that.

And so far, they're showing that they do, like Davis and Figurado, getting in this quick turnaround, kind of throwing full support behind him. I'm interested to see how much he can lift this division up. Jose, what do you think? And then just to kind of build on what Jed said, because one thing I thought that was really interesting in the buildup and on Saturday itself, is that the UFC is running with him as the king of this division, like the savior of the division, despite, you know,

light obviously being shown upon it. by Henry Sehudo, by of course, Demetrius Johnson in his record-setting title defense. But Dana White, like Jed said, really seems to like him. What have you made A, of the promotion backing him and promoting him the way that they have, and B, just his overall performance on Saturday? Well, I'm not quite sure they are promoting him very well, because let's not forget, Dana White decided he didn't have the time of day to do a scrum to sell this fight. He also didn't find the time of day to even be there for the stardowns, which is absolutely

flabbergasting because we're talking about Valentina Shoshchenko, who could be the best female fighter in the world, and the David's Figuero, who everyone is saying could be the next big thing of Flyway, if now he's already, and he's not there. He also, let's not forget, Davis and Figuero actually had a few words of issue with Dana White. So yes, he is doing them a favor of fighting again on one month trying to be the, I think, the first UFC champion to defend in consecutive weeks. But that has been the narrative with Flyway. When something goes wrong with another division. They pulled Demetrius Johnson in all the time to main event cards. He wasn't supposed to main event. And they didn't promote it or there wasn't enough time to promote it.

And then the pay-per-view didn't sell well. And then everyone blamed Demetrius Johnson not being able to sell that fight. When if he can't sell the fight as being the best fight in the world, I don't know what the difference was the Davis-Figuero who can't speak English. Also, Davis-in-Figuero said, Dana, if I'm your guy and you want me to do this, how come I didn't get $50,000 bonus. I submitted a guy in a main event of a title fight, and I defended my title. Where's my 50G? So he was close to not even taking the fight. He said, I don't want to do it. I want to go back to Brazil. I don't care if he wants me to defend again. I didn't get $50,000 bonus. And his manager, Walid, had to talk him into it to do the UFC of favor. Because if you do this

now, they'll do another favor for you down the road. I don't know if that's the case because he hasn't seen it a whole lot. Because again, like I said, Demetius Johnson was a company man. It was bounced around to all sorts of pay-per-views he wasn't supposed to have line. And then at the end of it, him and Dana White still had beef. So I'm not quite sure they are doing a good job promoting Davis and Figurato. And you said his English was good. What you didn't see off-camera after the camera stopped rolling, his Spanish is phenomenal. It's getting real good. And you know who he's fighting next? Brandon Moreno from Mexico. So English is fine. I'm very curious to see he spits any Spanish at Brandon Moreno. It went to build up to their fight.

Jedd, what did you think of figure out or not getting the bonus? Like I know a lot of times, like the UFC kind of use these bonus to propel some of the younger guys. But I mean, for God's sakes, like there is no dispute that this guy with a sub two-minute submission over a guy like Alex Perez in the main event, he should have got a freaking bonus. Should you not? When do they use bonuses to propel people? They usually end up giving bonuses to people in the main or chroming event at the expense of more interesting or, you know, maybe more deserving undercard fighters who could certainly use that money. You know, the guys who are getting 10 and 10 are going to make way better use of that money than people already in the main event.

So I'm not sure about that statement from you there, Mike. But 100%. Look, Anthony Nishavchenko had a good fight. Good for her. She performed really well and above expectation. There are leagues of difference between what those two performances are. And very clearly, Figaro had one of, if not the best all-out. performances on this card. So him not getting a bonus is pretty ridiculous in my mind.

I would agree. It was kind of alluded to what Figy's next move is, and we'll talk about that in a bit, but Valentina Shepchenko retained her title on Saturday. Unanimous decision, whatever, Jennifer Maya. I think we all expected Shepchanko to walk out of the apex with the title, but there seemed to be a lot of folks quite critical of Shifchenko's performance, because I think, as the odds stated, a lot of people thought that this thing wasn't going to go to the judge's scorecard. It did. So, Jed, let me ask you this. A lot of people on the post-fight show asked if we felt Schofshenko was rusty. So was she rusty, in your opinion? Or did we maybe underestimate Jennifer Maya, who was around a 9 to 10 to 1 underdog? I don't know if she's rusty. It's certainly not one of her best performances. I do think,

you know, it's important to keep this in perspective, right? You know, Schifchenko didn't have a great performance and still very clearly won four or five rounds. And in the round she lost, it wasn't like she got dominated. She was held against the fence for, you know, large portions of the fight. And no point in that fight did she ever look like she was in trouble. Really at no point in that fight did it ever look like she was in danger of losing the fight. But, you know, given the level of dominance she showed over everybody else thus far, it was definitely surprising.

I think you probably can't put some of that off to maybe just have a, in an off night, happens to fighters all the time. And maybe she did underestimate Jennifer Maya in some respects, you know. I certainly didn't think Maya would be able to match the physicality of Shivchenko, but she was able to kind of compete with her muscle up in the clinch, which is not something I expected and survive a lot more. I think that there's probably a lot of reasons for that performance and how that shook out. In a rematch, Shepchenko probably would do better, would be my guess.

I don't know that Maya can make any major adjustments from what she's. she offered there. But at the end of the day, a win's a win. When we did the pre-fight show, I compared Shevchenko to Anderson Silva. And I still think that's a pretty apt comparison as far as their styles and how they compete works. And Shevchenko, like Anderson, just sort of had one of those dominant but underwhelming nights. You chalk it up as that happened. Let's move on to the next one. and she may have another one or she might head kick somebody in the face and be done with it and that quickly. So we'll see how it goes. But, yeah, I think that's kind of where I sit.

Jose, what do you think? Looking back on it, I just think we didn't give. It's obviously MMA is all about matchups. Like obviously Valentina is the best female fighter at Flyway right now. But I just think there are some, every fighter has some sort of weakness. And whether they can overcome that in the Octagon is what makes them. champion. And like looking back, the fighters that Valentina has shown any sort of being human against has been a man in herness twice. And then let's don't forget, she tapped Juliana Pena, but she got

taken down and then just worked for the, worked for the submission and worked for the submission, but she got taken down by Juliana Pena. So her weakness has just been like physically stronger fighters than her. I'm not saying she's like she's not weak whatsoever. These fighters just happen to be stronger. And Jennifer Maya is as if you listen to the broadcast, they spent an entire round talking about Jennifer Maya's shoulders and how big they are. So Jennifer Maya is clearly one of the physically stronger, maybe not most technically skilled or gifted fighter, but she is a strong fighter in the flyweight division.

I just think when Valentina clenched up, Jennifer Maya just had the strength advantage. Valentina felt that, but Jennifer Mai didn't do anything with it. She just held her down. She put her palms on the ground even at one point, which is very bizarre. So even Valentina said she wasn't doing anything.

She was just holding me doing nothing. And Valentina was like, this is fine. Nothing's happening. And then when they separated, Valentina clearly showed she was the peer of your striker. But let's not forget, Jennifer Mayer clearly won round two. Like, I did not think I was going to write Jennifer Maya won any sort of round against Valentina.

And like if anyone scored round two, I believe it was round two, Valentina, you're dumb. It was clear four rounds to one. It wasn't close. But Jennifer Mayer clearly saw some sort of avenue to victory and got to step one and then just stopped. It didn't do anything else. Not saying she would have won, but she just didn't even progress. rest after finding yourself at any sort of dominant position.

Yeah, and to go back to my bonus statement, I wasn't saying maybe Propel was the wrong word, but maybe throw a bone to some of the younger guys. Because if you go back and look at the bonuses of 2020, there's a lot of main event guys who probably should have got them that didn't. Let's not forget Ronda Rousey versus Holly Holm was a fight of the night, because that was a back and forth war, right? I mean, yeah, if you're looking at a commentary. We're not going to get into the commentary.

We talked enough about that on the post fight. I don't want to talk to be a rock star, Mike. Sorry. Sorry, you don't want to mention this briefly because there's just so much to talk about. And I did want to get your takes on this because one of the names I keep getting asked about from, you know, even casual viewers of the sport is Mike Perry. Like obviously a lot of issues outside of the cages of late, missed wait for this fight badly. It was a fun fight with Tim Means.

loses the decision. So I guess, Jose, what is next for Mike Perry? Like, what do you see being next for that man after all this craziness? Well, he's definitely not getting cut, if that's what everyone's saying, because we asked Dana White about at in the post-fight press conference. He's like, you know, Mike Perry is an exciting guy. He just needs to get his ax together off the thing. And this and then I'm like, does not sound like any sort of person the U.S.

he wants to cut ties with. So I would imagine Mike Perry is going to be in the OxyGon again soon. maybe they try to rebook the Robbie Lawler fight. Maybe they try and, I don't know, make another fight where Mike Perry can just swing it, swing from his hips the entire time and not fight someone who knows any sort of technical striking like Tim Means and shows good grappling defense. So Mike Perry is not going anywhere, though. I imagine they might try to rebook the Lawler fight or wait for some of these other

welterweight fights to play out. But Mike Perry's days in the UFC are not over by any means. Jed, what do you think? And if the UFC does decide to keep him around, which have you watched the post-fights, Scrumadena, sounds like they're going to keep him around. Do you think his days of 170 or over? They make him go to 185?

I mean, that was a bad miss and everything he said on Twitter beforehand. Kind of scary stuff. I mean, no, they're not going to make him do anything. They don't make him do anything at all. Like, if they were going to have him be accountable for anything whatsoever,

he wouldn't be in the organization right now. That's just a fact. So, no, they're going to let him do whatever. He shouldn't go to 185. I mean, he is not. big welterweight. Like he's a middling welter weight. He just blew weight and you can make a lot of assumptions on why he did that. You can look to the fact that he has decided he doesn't need a real corner or coaches and that probably has something to do with it or you can just look at his

reaction when he missed weight and how little he cared about missing weight. They're not going to hold him accountable. He's not going to hold himself accountable certainly. So, you know, might miss weight again just because he doesn't feel like it. And there you go. He'll just fight somebody else at 175 and give 30% of his purse to somebody else. Great, because that 30% is probably going to be more than whoever he's fighting is making because that's the world we've chosen to live in, guys. Yeah, Tim Means was not upset at all that Mike Perry miss weight because he got like an extra

$30,000 out of the deal. At least that's what he said at his post-fight scrum. But we'll see what happens there. UFC 255 in the books. This game is not in the book, so the point for this round goes to Mr. Fight Circus himself, Jedmishu. He is on the board as we discuss what has come out of UFC 255 and the immediate impact that it has on their next pay-per-view offering.

At the post-fight press conference, Dana White said that they're keeping Figurato in Las Vegas and the plan was to have him defend the title against Brannamorino sometime in December. We assumed UFC 256 three weeks down the road. Moreno, of course, gets the stoppage win over Brandon Royval and the featured prelim on Saturday, and we're wondering why they were so adamant to push Figgy towards another title fight so quickly. And then we found out why on Sunday, as the main event originally scheduled one between Peodor, Jan, Al Jemaine, Sterling. That has been postponed to a later date. So in a 36-hour span, the top of the UFC 256 card has changed quite a bit.

Yon and Sterling is out. In its place, we get Figaro v. Morano for the flyway title. And also, Tony Ferguson versus Charles Olivaura has been added to the co-made event. So, Jose, let us begin with you putting your fan and viewership hat on. Did UFC 256 get better, some addition by subtraction, or did it get worse in your opinion? Then are we talking about the original original one with two title fights or the one that just got scraps? Because of the original one, like Amanda Nunes, Megan Anderson, and Jan and Sterling, like, I liked those two fights because, like, Amanda Nunes is the greatest female fighter of all time. I mean, Megan Anderson has been calling for a title shot forever, that Stirling versus, Yon versus Sterling, is in every definition of the world, just an extremely high level martial arts competition.

That's about as good as you can get where I don't think there's anyone in the world that doesn't agree with that matchmaking. Like, we all said Sterling deserved it, and Yon was the guy. they both wanted to fight and why the UFC didn't wait it so long to book that fight is beyond me so if we're going off of that oh man I don't know that's tough because Tony Ferguson Charles Olivera makes my blood just boil in the most positive ways imaginable I don't know that's tough that is real tough I would say no but it's about it's not like a massive difference just because I was really looking forward to sterling or Jan versus sterling five rounds if Tony Ferguson versus Charles Oliver was a five-round fight. I think it would be a lot of fun. But Tony Ferguson, when you saw when he gets to fight Anthony Pettus for three rounds, he didn't have, he could

just blow his gas tank right away and just cause all sort of damage. And Charles Oliverer finally gets the fight he deserves. But again, Charles Olivera is not the biggest name. This is going to be the Tony Ferguson show. So I'm not going to say it's substantially any better, any worse, but I would still say I was much, I was looking forward to Jan versus Sterling a lot. That was like, Of all the possible fights, like even including Nunes, Anderson, Tony versus Olivera, Sterling, Jan, and everything. Jan versus Sterling is the fight I was looking forward to the most out of all those. Plus, I was really looking forward to Tony versus Michael Chandler, and now that that's not happening, it makes me a little sad. So I'll say Jan Sterling was the biggest fight of all those that fell off.

So not substantially worse or better. All right, Jed, do you have an answer for this? Better, worse? What do you think? I think it makes it I think that the card absolutely just got worse like I'm

I'm with everybody that thinks Oliver Ferguson is gonna be super fun because it is like that's a really fun fight it's important to the division I am not with my I guess I'll call him a colleague

sure why not throw him alone not with my colleague about caring to see Tony Ferguson fight Michael Chandler because Michael Chandler's like a whatever lightweight and Tony Ferguson's a really really good one

so I'd rather watch this fight between those two. So certainly a great addition, but like Jose said, Jan Aljo, that was the fight. As one of the fights I've been most interested in watching this division for some time. Certainly my most anticipated fight of this whole year, or this back stretch of the year, I guess, in Q3. And now that fight's gone. So, I mean, losing that just drops the card off, even, you know, adding a flyway title fight that's going to be really fun, adding Ferguson, Olivera, that's going to be really fun. I would rather have the Aljo-Yan fight because I think that fight, you know, that's really the fight for the true Banimway King. I know Jan has the title good on him,

but I argued about for this a few weeks back when somebody vacates the belt, just making one replacement lightweight title fight, do a little tournament. And I think this would be kind of the natural conclusion of a Bantamweight tournament would be here, Jan versus Aljo. So I think it's just worse by virtue of losing that, you know, They've made lemonade out of the lemons they were given to paraphrase Brock Lesnar. They made chicken salad out of chicken poop.

So good for them. It's still a really good card. I am a little concerned that it's a huge card or like 15 fights on this card, which is going to be a time suck when that comes around. But in general, card got worse, but it's still well worth your time. Let me ask you this, Jed, because we, on Saturday, they showed the graphic of the December 19th card in its entire. and that card is absolutely insane. Like, it's unbelievable. So I know they probably won't do anything here,

but if you were sitting in the UFC corporate offices in Las Vegas, would you pull an audible and switch some things around between these two cards? Maybe make December 19th the pay-per-view, shuffle the deck a little bit, or would you just leave them be as it is? 100%. Like, I was thinking about this this morning when I was writing something for the site because I was looking at that 19th card.

And it, aside from, you know, being a quality card in general, it also just picked up some really strong additions in the last couple of weeks. And now, like, that card is better than UFC 255, and it's better than UFC 256 on paper. And at this point, you know, you had UFC 256 was all set up. You've got your two title fight champions, yada, yada, here you go. Now you don't. Now you have one title fight on it. It's your flyweight division. It's a new king of that. There's no way, two, 56 is going to do great pay-per-view numbers. Like, just there's just no way it's going to do more than the bare minimum of what the UFC

draws. However, if they just swapped it, they were just like, yeah, this is going to be a fight night and we're going to make this other one the pay-per-view. I'm sure there's some complications as far as opening up a time slot, you know, for the viewing on ESPN for the new fight night card. But I think they could get it done. And I think it would strongly behoove them to get it done. because the other card is just better.

Jose, what do you think? Would you play the old swapparoo if you had the option? I think it would, I would switch it for, well, I would switch it for the biggest reason is if you're trying to get the flyways any sort of shine, put their title fight on free TV, so you take that out of the equation. Like, who wants space $6, $65 to watch flyweight fights?

Like, take it out of the equation, and now everyone can just watch for free and then they can watch this violent flyweight and Tony Ferguson fight for free. And then the December 19th card. Again, I don't know the pay-per-view point situation in the ESPN era off the top of my head. If Davidson Figaro gets pay-view points if he doesn't as champion, I'm sure the UFC would like it a lot better if they didn't stick a champion on a pay-per-view because that's less money.

They would have to pay off the points. But again, I don't know the exact specifics of that. So I'm going to ignore that. But if I'm a fan, what am I paying $65 for? It is absolutely December 19th. And if I'm the USC, I would make the switch because then the flyway title fight gets to be on free TV. And whether it gets more eyes, if it's on free TV or not, is I don't know. But I, of course, I would lean towards more eyes being on the ESPN.

Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I would like to ask both of you, I guess, a question that I have my answer to. Like, we're all in agreement, right, that the night, if they made the December 19th of pay-per-view, it would outsell. do UFC 256, right? Probably. How much do you, like, I think it would outsell it by a pretty substantial margin. I would honestly say December, I think December 19th because I outsell U.C. 255, the one that just happened. Yeah, 255 is not going to have done great numbers.

I think 256, as it's structured, you're looking at 100,000 buys, you know, like that, that kind of basement floor that they've set. I think if they switched it and made the pay-per-view the 19th card, Hamzat's been getting such a big push from the company. They could double down on that at the end. You just have a bunch of other names on there, Wonderboy, Jose Aldo, Greg Hardy, for all the things that are bad about that. I think that could do fair. Like, it's not going to do a 500K, but I kind of think it would double the pay-per-view buys

of the currently set 256. You agree with that, Jose? I agree with that. I think it would do $2.250 at least. Yeah, I probably like $250,300 around there. I think it's clearly, if that was a pay-per-view, it would be the better. Of the last few months, it would easily be the better card. Plus, I think the UFC would like to end.

Like, they always used to end the year on pay-per-views. Like, end the year on a pay-per-view, make the December 19th pay-per-view, and let's move on to the January card, which is what the UFC really wants to do. what a cliffhanger would be on the final fight of the 2020 pay-per-view calendar year. Hamzat Shamiyev or Leon Edwards walks out as the biggest baby face or the biggest heel in the company because all eyes are going to be on that. If Leon Edwards beats Hamzat Shamaif, there's going to be probably won't be the most positive of reactions,

considering how even the casual fan has, yeah. Yeah. But if Hamzat Shemayev beats Leon Edwards, oh my God, what a way to go off the end. What's worst case scenario? Like Leon Edwards first of Corey Anderson when he knocked out Johnny Walker. Like if that happens, Leon Edwards is a star. No, no. Leon Edwards can't do that.

The worst case scenario is Leon Edwards go to all Leon Edwards on him and wins like a very technically sound unexciting five-round decision over Hamzot. And then, oh, well, I guess we have to give a title fight at some point. That's what's going to happen. It's not even worth case scenario. That's just the scenario that's going to happen. Shemayev favored in this fight. Good for Leon.

Good for Leon. Yeah, man. I have full respect for Leon keeping to do his thing. It's just funny as hell to me. I cannot believe Shamiyev is the favorite. And a pretty decent one, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. I don't know if you guys have seen the odds.

It's a holiday season, and so everyone has money obligations. you know, don't want to tell people to spend their money or do things that are illegal in their neck of the woods. But if you are in a place where gambling is legal, maybe throw a few bucks down. Buy your kids something real nice for Christmas. Chad, you gamble? Get out of here. Nope. Never. Not you.

Not you. I would never do that. Oh, man. Well, I mean, listen, the UFC. doing what they can to round out this year in a big way. Crazy year indeed. But this matchup continues on the point. Goes to Jedmishu. He's up 2-0 right now. He's up 2-0. This is getting interesting. Although I think you guys know what's going to happen. The problem is I live in the state of Georgia. And if there's one thing we really know how to do here, it's bull elites. We're

really good at it. So I'm not super happy about being up to a. Don't worry. I think the only thing you're worse at is counting according to Twitter. Well, it's fair. You're not a bad point for my question. Oh, man. Well, let us shift gears because last week on this here program, we discussed Patricio Pitbull's knock-a-win over Pedro Carvalio,

excuse me, to retain his Bellator featherweight title. This past Thursday, the Featherweight Grand Prix continues on with a fascinating fight between Dary and Caldwell and A.J. McKee in the main event of Bellator 253. And what we saw was the clear-cut submission of the year in just over a minute, A.J. McKee, with this crazy neck crank to put away Caldwell, it was incredible. Also, let me just point out that our own E. Casey Liding put together a breakdown of the submission. You can find that everywhere, social media, YouTube, et cetera. So go ahead and check that up. But, Jen, let me start with you, because last week we talked about where Patricio Pitbull sits in the,

not just the Bellator featherweight rankings, but like the worldwide featherweight rankings. Like where would he match up against the Volcanovskis, the UFC guys, the Belator guys, et cetera? Where would you put A.J. McKee on that list after that incredible finish this past Thursday? It's tough. So I think A.J. McKee is the best prospect in MMA.

If you want to define prospect as like 25 or younger, because I think anything after that's probably, maybe prospect isn't a great word. And it's weird to think of that, because he's not far off from potentially winning the Bellator title and being like a really bona fide star in this sport. But he is still so young and has so much room to develop and get better. But every time we see him, he's just being awesome. And I am pumped for the inevitable McKee Pitbull fight. I think that is where this is clearly going for the Belator Grand Prix.

That fight's going to be awesome. It might be too much for McKee at this stage of his career to handle, because pit bull, I think we've talked about my view on pit bull and pit bull being, you know, one of the, certainly one of the five best featherweights in the world. And I think pit bull can have a competitive fight with literally anyone on the UFC roster. So maybe that's a bridge too far from a key, but I don't think he's that far behind. And at only 25, he has plenty of opportunity to grow. I think he's, you know, it's hard to say. It's hard to give a great number for him just because he hasn't beaten that many people that you can feel confident.

saying, yeah, this guy's a top 10 guy, but he's certainly a top 10 talent in the division. No question about that. And I think he would, if he came to the UFC right now, he'd be absolutely competitive with anybody at the top of the rankings. Maybe still needs a little more seasoning, but dude, this kid is a sensation. And I am really excited to watch the rest of his career play out. Jose, 17 and 0, another big finish, Darren Caldwell. I mean, compared to some of the names that Patricia Pippel,

is beaten in the Grand Prix. Pretty, pretty exceptional stuff for AJ McKee. I think a lot of people thought that this fight would be much more competitive with the guy like Daring Caldwell. But where would you rank him right now? Is he a top 10, top 15 guy in the world at 145 in your opinion? Yeah, like top 15, top 10 for sure. I don't know if he's top five or even top 10, but he's unbelievable. Like he's the, he's pretty much had the opposite treatment of Hamzat, where Hamzat came in and all of a sudden he's won three and all of a sudden he's fighting like the number three welterating in the world that just seems like every single time a j mckee fights he doesn't get a massive massive jump up in competition he's slowly been built up because let's not forget he debuted in belator

he was oh and oh when he made his bellator debut so he's never fought outside of the bellator cage in his professional career and every single fight he gets is another step on the competition and even now that he's in the finale of the grand prix he's fought like caldwell campos carcanion pack currently i think those are his last four or five uh uh uh uh five uh uh five uh five uh five uh five uh five uh and what fought currant to a decision and then just have like three unbelievable stoppages. I think the only knock and it's going to sound weird and it's not a negative. It's not any sort of shot against him. We haven't seen him like tested.

Like we haven't seen him have to dig deep against these elite competitors because he hasn't had to. And that's an unbelievable achievement to say. But like if we're comparing him to like the top five of the UFC, like Barron Ortega can take a lot of damage and not go away. same as Max Holloway, Volcanowski, Chan Sung, that's where he shines the best. Like even Jaire, he's had his face caved in and tries to keep fighting, and he even knocks out a Korean zombie with the greatest knockout I have ever seen in my entire life.

So I think the only knock against AJ is we just don't know how he would do in the deep waters against these fighters that won't go away so easily. So awesome fighter, clearly top 15, top 10, but I wouldn't put him in the top five just yet. He's well on his way. And I'm curious if he does. fight pit bull because Emmanuel Sanchez is no slouch. He's an unbelievable fighter. And I don't like the disrespect we got where people are saying, Bellator, scrap that fight and just put Pitbull in the

finals. I was like, don't do that. That sucks. That absolutely sucks. So yeah, not top five yet, but top 10, top 15 for sure for A.J. McKee. Yeah, you make a great point there because, like you said, pit bull's going to fight Emmanuel Sanchez. He's looked awesome. And he is the man, maybe the most overlooked guy in Bellator right now because all eyes are on Pitbull versus A.J. McKee. So, Jose, if you are Emmanuel Sanchez right now, are you just loving how this is playing out? Because he's going to come into this fight

with Petruccio Pitbull way under the radar and the chance to play Spoiler in multiple ways here. I'm looking forward to playing spoiler in that aspect because if he beats Pitbull and fights A.J. McKee, like you very well. Because, again, like Emmanuel Sanchez is an awesome fighter. and I would like to see AJ McKee fire either of those guys, but you take the shine away from Pitbull,

who I still consider the greatest fighter in Bellator history, who's in the prime of his career. Like, that's just a massive win right there. What I'm not looking forward to is because, you know, you guys have done a couple of media days. How many times is he going to get asked about people overlooking him and just booking Pitbull versus AJ McKee? Every single interview he's going to do,

it's going to involve that. That's just got to be absolutely draining because eventually you're just going to get infuriated. You're probably going to lash out. You're not going to look good. So not looking forward to the buildup because no one's going to talk about me. They're all going to talk about the other two guys. But, man, to say he would be a spoiler would be an understatement

because Pitbull McKee is everything I want in Bellator fight. What have you made of Emmanuel Sanchez, Jed? And would you be loving the way this is all playing out in the media and amongst fans because he's the guy that everyone believes his pit bull is going to walk right over on this way to an A.J. McKee fight. I mean, because he is going to do that. Like, they fought that we've done this dance before. They fought two years ago.

And since then, like, yeah, Emmanuel Sanchez has picked up some wins and he's not trying to disparage the guy. He's a good fighter. But since their last fight of the two of them, Pitbull has looked way better. Like he's looked like he's gotten even better. He knocked out Michael Chandler. Let's not forget that.

he just obliterated Pedro Carvalia. Like, I'm, I think it's, you know, it's not, it's never okay to look past somebody, but it's fine. Like, we've seen this. It happened not that long ago. I don't think Sanchez has done anything substantive to be like, oh, yeah, he's really got something new or a different look for pit bull. Like, this is going to look a lot like their first fight, which was not a blowout.

You know, it was competitive to a degree, but it was a clear pit bull win. and I think that that gap will only have gotten slightly bigger here, and it is going to get us eventually to where we want to be, which is McKee versus Pitbull, and fight's going to be a banger. I'm pumped about it. So I'm totally okay waiting. Like, it's fine.

We'll get, you know, we'll have a, oh, shucks, we're going to have to watch Patricia Pitbull fight a really competent guy in a good competitive technical battle. Whoa be us. But then eventually we get the fight we all want. And I don't think of me. Daniel Sanchez, you know, overlooked or overlooked, however he's just not, it's not going to matter.

Last thing on this, Mr. Michoud, because, I mean, one of the last appearances you're on with one Aaron Bronstetter, one of the topics we talked about is Bellator trying to generate some buzz, like Aaron tried to do on this program. Yes, yes. Both of both of you were not able to give him the buzz that he so rightfully wanted. but Belator's gotten it with these last couple of cards, and the Grand Prix has just been incredibly fascinating television

since it's been going on, especially over the last couple of weeks. The plan for 2021, obviously once this thing rounds out, is we're going right back to this Grand Prix thing. We're picking a different weight class, and we're going right back after this, right? Like go with the hot hand and just keep being as interesting as possible with these Grand Prix. Yeah, they should just always be doing it.

Like, Grand Prix are just really fun. Like, I don't know. Maybe that's just me because I grew up in MMA, you know, back in the Pride Days, you know, early 2000 era. And so that was always, but that's always been exciting. I know that they are logistically difficult to pull off and any number of things can happen. If they want, you know, I think Bellator has gained something by having the title be as part of the Grand Prix, certainly. But I can also see how that can be difficult to manage. You have to have a champion willing to fight three or four times in a year. That's not everyone's going to want to do that.

So if they wanted to just run a Grand Prix that didn't have the champion in, you know, just do a 2,021 Grand Prix for the Walterweight Division or whatever. Awesome. But yeah, grand prix are great. They are easy to digest, clear narrative structure. This guy advances here, here, and here. And it's just super simple to build around. And if you do it really well, like they've done with the Bellator one,

even with all of COVID happening, you might end up getting what will be a really great main event for them. The McKee Pitbull fight, we're going to get a full core promo press on that. And I think that's going to be a really, really great event for Bellator. Agree or disagree, Jose, because when they, I think before the Welterweight Grand Prix, and even the heavyweight one, we were like, all right, this is kind of cool. Can they pull this off? And it was just kind of like cherry for them. Like, we're going to keep putting out our cards. But, you know, now we're going to throw this Grand Prix in there.

it'll just be like a nice little bonus for the fans. And I feel like at this point, I feel like their focus needs to be on, it's got to be like Grand Prix Central now. Like that needs to be like the ice cream, the hot fudge, the whipped cream, everything. And then just the rest of the cards are just like the cherry. Like are you just going all in on these Grand Prix here

and just putting as much focus on them as possible? So you're telling me that Bellator should focus every year on a tournament. Is that right? Tournament in sports. I mean, that sounds, that sounds awfully familiar if we're trying to talk about things that are new. How about tournaments without the champion?

I don't think Bellator has ever done that before. I mean, what? The winner of the tournament would probably fight the champion, correct? Is that my understanding? You know? Belator's never done 10 seasons of that before. So, yeah, sure. Grand Prix are awesome and I love everything about them.

I want the champion in them. Or some sort of, like, just, like, if the champion is not in it, the prize has to be awesome because I don't want it to be just a number one contender tournament because we got 10 years of that pretty much with Bellator. I want something like Money in the Bank style. Like if

Georgie Carcannion wins, he's like, you know what? Forget AJ McKee, Pitbull. I'm cashing in. AJ McKee, you're out. I get to fight Pitbull now. That would be ridiculous and that would be fun because that would be all kinds of stakes to just be able to cash in a title shot whenever you want and knock out the number one contender without even fighting the guy.

That would be fun, but if they're doing Grand Prix, keep the tournament, keep the champion in there. Because if it's not, again, I like tournaments. It's just not interesting to me if it's just for the number one contendorship. Like we're talking about with the UFC lightweight situation right now, if Abeb does retire, we all agree a tournament would be absolutely awesome, but it would be for the championship or the championship would be on the line at least one of the opening rounds, fights possibly like if we made conner versus porre for the title and then the title just went along with the winner of that throughout the tournament that would be cool uh but again not a

non-in-wick tenorship tournament just throw the champion in there or put something ridiculous at the end for the winner i think i think my excuse collie is is forgetting something here and one i would like to say love the idea of the money in the bank thing or whatever great 100% let's go ahead and do that but i guess my question to you, Jose or you, Mike, or just to the ether, is, sure, we don't have to, you know, all right, let's, however you want to think about it. Was Bellator easier or more interesting to follow before or when they were doing tournaments or in that period between no tournaments and no grand prix when it was just like, all right, we're going to have our dudes fight each other

and no one really cares about most of these. Like, they're not the UFC. I would, I'd, I'd, I preferred that middle error to the cops era where every single fight would end in cops. Oh, man, that's the best era. It's easy narrative structure to follow. You don't like, we're going to talk about this card upcoming this weekend for the UFC that has like two fighters with wiki wiki pages. That's every Bellator card ever. So you can't follow them, you know, as a hardcore, but you can't like, oh, this is just a random lightweight tournament bout. cool easy enough to digest so i'm totally down for the money in the bank thing let's do that but like

yeah i'm in belcour just go back to the tournament structure live live your roots man that's it's it's fun it's simple and then it means i don't have to pretend to care about who i'm trying to think of like a random heavyweight that might just like check congo who might see yeah i was about to say who hasn't been relevant in a half decade at least who randomly just gets a title fight because like we have five heavyweights on roster and he knocks somebody out like give me tournaments for days do you guys do you guys like the early start time that they're doing now that they've gone to cbs sports i i i dig it i love every i love everything too man like big fan just super simple super easy it's way better than a friday which i used to hold events on which was an

awful day to do it so yeah big fan yes as am i Nellator will end their 2020 on December 10th. Olimelay McFarlane versus Giuliano Velasquez for the flyway title in the main event. Very interesting fight. Finally, Velasquez gets her shot at a championship. So we will head to the final question of regulation because Jose got the point. That was well done. Money in the bank, you have to give him the point.

Even Jed would give him the point after that one. I'll accept it just because I think the money in the bank thing would be hilarious. Can you imagine if like Shet Congo wins and he walks out? He's like, no, Ryan Bader, Fador, take a hike. I'm fighting with Ryan Bader now. And then Fadar's like, oh, okay, that sucks. It would honestly be so much fun to put the whole promo behind it. It's like, actually, guys, I'm cashing this one in.

Sorry. And there's no limit on when you can cash it in. So Fadour makes take his hands are wrapped. He's about to walk out. and then Chekongo just puts his hand in front of him. He was like, not today, Last Emperor. He's got to be a tank side. Fador made the walk.

You hear Chekongo's music drop. Yeah, there you go down. Oh, God, that would be, man, can we get to the part where I talk about Fight Circus? Because that's something that probably will do in the future. Oh, you hate to see it. Oh, man. Well, we go from great ideas like that. to this weekend in the world of combat sports.

Saturday night, more specifically. The UFC is back with UFC Vegas 15. This one headlined by Curtis Blades versus Derek Lewis. We get Anthony Smith versus Devin Clark in the co-main event. And also the debut of the Legends Only League in the wonderful world of boxing headlined by the exhibition bout between Mike Tyson and Roy Jones Jr. The co-made event for that card is the just exciting.

exciting matchup between YouTube sensation Jake Paul, taking on former NBA guard, former slam dunk champion, Nate Robinson. This is actually a thing, ladies gentlemen. So the bases are covered this weekend. We get a little bit of everything. So Jose, let me ask you, if you could only choose one event to watch from start to finish, you could not watch the other, you couldn't get social media updates, no ability to surf the internet whatsoever.

You have to sit in a room and choose one of these events to watch. Which one are you going with? the UFC or Tyson versus Jones? This can't be a question. The answer is Mike Tyson versus Roy Jones Jr. It's an exhibition match, sure. There's any be no winner. There's no judges.

There's a fake mystery title on the line for a fight with no winner. Yeah, of course it's that. And then just to top it all, like, I'm a massive Nate Robbins fan. He did not deserve to be a three-time slam-dum champion. Dwight Howard got robbed 100%, but I have loved for any former Celtics that play. in the NBA finals. He was also what? He's still the the shortest slam dunk champion

in the history of the NBA. If I'm not, maybe I don't know if he's taller than Spudde Webb, maybe I'm not 100%, but come on. That's the answer. Like even Dana White was like blown away by the rules and I was shooting at the press conference. So that is 100% the answer. Is Badiou Jack is on the undercard too? Like

Rashad Coulter, former UFC Chim. And I love Derek Lewis's, Kurtz, Blades. The problem is neither of them are going to fight for the title anytime soon, especially because Steve A and France this hasn't happened yet. And now you have the John Jones mix. Curtis Blades already lost twice to France and Ghana.

So there's not a lot of stakes on the line in the main event. So there's no real incentive to walk. Because you're not tuning in to watch the next U.S. Heavyweight No More Contender. You're going to tune in to watch two 50-year-old cats way past their prime, throw at each other and get tired and then just pass out on one another. And then, of course, one of the Paul brothers, I don't even know, fighting, fighting former NBA champion.

And let's not forget, he played football in college. So two sport, all two sport collegiate athlete into an NBA slam dunk champion. Come on. The answer is the boxing match. Jed, I mean, I thought for sure it would be the boxing match for you, but I mean, you have been spoiled by fight circus. So, I mean, there's no way that Tyson versus Jones can compete with Fight Circus volume two. So, you know, maybe you got your fill of some crazy, you know, different kinds of combat sports.

Is it, is it the boxing one, though? I am nothing, if not a man who is extremely on brand. And one of these is right up my alley. And it's not, look, I'm also a guy who loves bad heavyweight MMA. And this weekend is not even technically bad heavyweight MMA. It's two really good, highly ranked fighters. That fight is going to be atrocious. Curtis Blades is just going to tackle him.

He's going to tackle and grapple. And that's it. And it'll last however long Derek Lewis can survive, probably a couple of rounds. The rest of that card is trying to think of a way to... Nope, hot garbage, just going to call it. It is hot garbage. There are, looking at it right now, there are nine people on this fight card that have Wikipedia pages, which is probably a record setting low for a UFC event.

It is not a good card. The co-main event, like, you know, you always do this thing on the show where you're like, hey, give me the deep cut from that fight, and like, oh, what's one sell me on? it and I can't even do it. I don't know half the people on this card. And I do this every day of my life. Like it is a tough hang this weekend for the UFC. And on the other end of it, look, Roy Jones loved Roy Jones as prime. I was, you know, a little too young to really ever like fully get Roy Jones and certainly Mike Tyson other than kind of like baby remembrances of, oh man, Tyson's fighting cool. But both of them awesome. This fight will be sad.

in a lot of ways, but it's the kind of sad that I'm really into for whatever reason because I make bad life choices. Don't care at all about the Paul brother. I just not interested. Nate Robinson, I don't have any kind of attachment like Jose does. So whatever. You mean you don't have an attachment to NBA? I mean, not even NBA. You don't have an attachment to Venezuelan finals MVP, Nate Robinson?

You know, I just don't. I'm not even going to apologize. I do think it's absolutely hysterically funny that objectively the best boxer on this card, by with Jack, who, like, was a WBC champion, not that while. Like, at least in this decade was a champion, is somehow third billion this fight card. Like, that is absolutely incredible to me. Like, if someone went back two years and was like, hey, man, guess where your career is going, you're going to play third fiddle to two old legends, at least you could maybe sell him on that,

and a YouTuber boxing, an NBA former All-Star. He's like, are you kidding me? Come on, man. Like, what a career trajectory that is. So this card is hysterical, and it's going to be bad in the funny way, which is everything I want. So no, no, Mike. I did not get enough this weekend. I'll never get enough of this kind of carnival side show lunacy.

I'm extremely here for it. Do you have a deep cut fight on this card, Jose? Jed can't even find one. He always seems to find the diamond in the rough and make us think a certain way. He doesn't have one here. I have a deep cut fight, but I want to hear if there's one that sticks out to you that's like, ooh, this will be fun. I mean, Anthony Smith is always a fun fight.

Who's he flying? Devin Clark, if I'm not mistaken. So we didn't get to speak to Devin Clark the last time he fought because I think he went to the hospital right away. I think it was what, the Alonzo Menafield fight. And we all wanted to speak with him because he got down on one knee and raised his fist in the air

because that was right at the height of the Black Lives Matter protest. So fortunately didn't get to speak to him. I'm really looking forward to Baezas, Asato. I think that fight absolutely rules. Luke Sanders, the Arizona guy. Spike Carlisle is like the curtain jerker, or he should be the curtain jerker. He's an absolute psychopath and does that creepy Joker laugh before he fights.

Should have gotten fight in the night against it was a Billy Quarantillo the last time. So it's a lot of fun fights, I guess. Ashley Evan Smith, former A-side co-host is fighting on the car too. So but nothing I would make me not tune in to Mike Tyson versus Roy Jones in the Year of Our Lord 2020. Yes, Carlisle versus Bill Algeo is going to be ridiculous. I don't know, Jed, hearing Jose wax poetically on the day, deep cuts. Did anything trigger you? No. Come on, man. Like, sure, I'll have it on. I'll watch it, and some of those fights might be okay. Like, I am marginally interested in Miguel Baezza because I think

he's actually a good prospect. But, and, uh, Tato, um, good fighter. Like, that's a funish fight, but like, one, there's definitely at some point just mental fatigue. Like, we've had a card every weekend since mid-July, I think, since the week after the fourth, I think, actually. And it's still going to carry on until almost the end of December. Like, there's just, you get burnt out doing this every day, every week. And none of these fights are fights that are going to cut through that noise. And what will cut through that noise is 250-year-old's boxing.

Because we've said it before on this podcast, Mike. one of if not my absolute favorite MMA fight, like not ironically, entirely seriously is Kimbo Dada. Like it's one of my favorite fights of all time. And there's a real chance we get that only with two guys with bigger names and better athletic pedigrees.

So there's nothing that's going to take me away from that. Well, there you go. Get excited for an action-packed Saturday of combat sports action. this action-packed edition of Between the Links continues on. Jose has tied the score. I am loving this. We're going to head to the knock-ar-round.

One question decides it all. Each competitor has 60 seconds to answer said question. They have no idea what it is. After they respond, the judge of the jury of the executive producer, E.K.C. Lide will render the final decision. And a little bit of breaking news for the gentlemen that are competing. I did not mention this before because I was setting this up. But I'm going to sweeten the pot a little bit heading into this knock-around question. winner of the knockout round, the winner of the game, is going to face Sean El Shottie next week

to crown a brand new undisputed between the lynx champion. All right. Phoenix Carnivali is just so busy these days. Yeah. Phoenix has to be able to defend the title. She will be back on the challenge for that title once her schedule opens up. But we have to move this thing along. We have to have a new champion.

We have to have title defenses. That's so, you know, championship is a great. you're telling me the second i face shawna el shoddy phoenix carloval well aka her title yes is that what this is about okay okay dana that's what this is about i mean it's probably you're the champion for a while because he's never going to face john again because i got that i'm going to be i'm going to be the anti dana white let's just consider her let's consider the title bacon right now but it will be decided next week so Are we ready to have that talk yet?

Is Phoenix? Is she in the Mount Rushmore of Between the Lings? She very well could be. We'll see what happens at that. But, you know, just want to add a little little sussle of the steak here, you know, heading into this knock around. So with that, Jose, you are the man with back-to-back victories. Do you want to answer this question first?

Do you want to pass it over to Jen Michou? No, I'm going to pass it over to this bag of soup sitting next to me. Wow. I never heard that one. But okay. All right. Me neither. Let's do it.

What kind of soup? Took me? Like a hardy to steer? No, it's like a soup that your significant other brings home and you put on the counter, but you forget to put it in the fridge. So it's like room temperatured and kind of like congealed at the top. So you're like, I don't really want this. So you throw it away.

Okay. Sure. That was very descriptive. Nice drop. Oh, man. Here's the question. And we're going to pay sort of homage to the old MMA beat because this is something that was always discussed on that program around this time of year.

So we're bringing it back right here on Between the Links. Quite simply, Jed Mishu, the question is, when it comes to MMA, combat sports, what have you in the year of Our Lord 2020, with Thanksgiving coming up. And it's time to be thankful. So, Jed, in 60 seconds, tell us what makes you. you thankful in the MMA combat sports world in 2020. Your time starts now. What an absolute layup. What I am thankful for is what we've been we've been kind of picking around the edges this whole afternoon. I am thankful for Fight Circus. I am thankful for Cam Soda for getting into the

MMA space. Their first offering Cam Soda Legends event of the year, sensational, amazing. Their second one that's earlier this year they partnered with Full Metal Dojo, created Fight Fight Circus. That will be on my short list for events of the year this year. And they're offering this past weekend Fight Circus 2, Circus Harder, brilliant name, was everything you wanted it to be. You know, we were talking before this show about the blending of combat sports and pro wrestling. And Fight Circus is now doing that at the end. I'm just going to spoil it for you if you haven't seen it. Bob Sapp comes out at the end of Fight Circus 2 and punches the promoter in the head. and then it cuts to black, setting up an incredible thing.

We have leg-kicking Rochambeau contest, which is amazing. The three-on-one fight was also, it was magic. It was just magic, and I can't wait for it again. Oh, man. All right, Jose. Let us be reflective. Let us be positive here. What are you thankful for in the wonderful world of MMA and combat sports?

Tough to do in a minute, Jose, perhaps, but your time starts right now. It's not tough, man. I'm going to take it seriously. I'm going to say, I'm honestly thankful that I can even work right now. Because as we all know, our fellow co-workers at Vox can't say the same thing, but a lot of our coworkers and colleagues in the beginning of the year 2020 are no longer at Fox. A lot of ESPNers got light off too. So it's an absolutely very extremely difficult time to be a sports journalist. The three of us, thankfully, cover a sport that continued on.

And not just the UFC, but Bellator is back. one championship is back and Victor's back. So there's no shortage of work for anyone. Anyone dealing with COVID-19, of course, having a job is not the end of it. I've obviously lost a couple of family members myself to this virus. So the fact that, A, I can continue to work. I'm still traveling because, as Jed said, some of us get burnt out. Well, some of us actually have to travel to these events and fly 80,000 miles away

and spend five weeks away from our loved ones. So, yes, it does burn you out when you're sitting at home. for all of those times. But I am thankful to have a job and to continue to get a paycheck. Well said. This will be a year that I look back upon in a very strange way, because I got on to this, I got on an M.A. fighting like a week before everything shut down.

So the timing was just absolutely weird. And then John Jones went ahead and John Jones did. And all sorts of craziness happened. So this just been a wild ride. But we go to you, Casey Leiden. You've heard both men what they are thankful for, differing roads they took to get to to get to where they wanted to go

but now we turn it over to you who is the champ or the winner of this week who is vying for a championship next week you know every week I always say it's a tough decision but this week may be the toughest fight circus on one end and 250,000 people

death just death across the world on the other side and just thankful we have a job. Oh my goodness. That is a had to pick a winner. Man, you're a winner. And facing Sean off Shottie next week for the vacant between the link's belt is Mr. Fight Circus, Jed Mishu.

I did not see that coming. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Jose. It was, it hurts me. It hurts me. but like, ah, it's fight circus. I got circus harder in there.

I mean, I'm going to be honest with you. I think that I absolutely gave Jose the business for the first four rounds, and so we shouldn't even been here. But when he went like sincere and real, I was like, shit, that's,

that's, like, very hard, that's hard for me. Like, if you had gone the other way, Casey, I'd been like,

hey, man, that is, can't, I'm just being an asshole. talking about circus honor. So I guess. But, you know, you are the judge, so we're going to defer to your expert wisdom.

And I commend you for that choice. It's okay. Paul Felder won around against Hafeiard dos ayes, too. So, you know, sometimes it happens. Did Paul Fulner really win around against RDA? You didn't hear about the split decision win for Hafeiard dos años? Oh, my God. I forgot.

That feels like that was a lifetime ago, by the way. Like three weeks. That was like three weeks ago. Fantastic. Wow. Wow. So Jed Mushu versus Sean Al-Shoddy with the vagant between the links to championship.

This was for the real title. We all know it. Well, Jed. Who's Sean? You know. Sean is busy watching shows that were, that discovering shows that were popular 15 years ago. If you follow him about Twitter.

What's he watching? He's like, just watching the show Mr. Robot. And I was like, dude, he watched Avatar the last Airbundar for the first time in 2020. I was like, come on, guy. Watch you just discovered Mr. Robot. Hey, this judge just discovered Avatar too, mind you. Yeah, but you're like 75 years old. Yeah, this is true.

Oh, this is lashing out. That's all that is. Yeah. I'm laughing out. Hey, man. well jed go ahead go ahead casey

no I feel bad I feel bad like Jose put his heart out there and I went with I went with the bike circus bite harder

I mean I'm a bad person I'm a bad person here's what happened I clearly won the first round jad probably won round two and three I very clearly won round four and then it came down

I'm being honest I definitely won round one Jed can get the middle two rounds, and I definitely run four. But it is what it is. We can play the narrative that the guy from Atlanta can't keep a lead. That's cool, but is what is. Enjoy beating Sean. I'll say that.

Who doesn't enjoy beating Sean? It's very easy word. Hey, man. He's a son's fan. Go easy on him. Well, Jed, you... My opinion is more torture than Georgia sports. It's true.

You get your rematch, Jed. Sean beat you in the first meeting. But now the stakes are as high as they can possibly be next week. So the floor is yours. You have 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about. MMA, Sean Al-Shadi, whatever you want to say. The floor is yours. I mean, I'm obviously just going to talk more about Fight Circus, too,

because there was so much that I left out in my speech. One of the highlights, they did a spinning attacks-only fight that worked out as well as you would imagine because if you know someone can only attack you by spinning, they're just going to move away from you as soon as you come forward. But it was still awesome. It was like watching a Jackie Chan movie, even though nobody landed anything. It was sensational.

They did a three-on-one-one fight. They did a two-on-one last time. They upped it. They had a two-on-one and a three-on-one, and they were both way better than last time. Like, the three-on-one fight was deceptively competitive because the one dude just, like, kept hitting the crap out of one of the guys, and everyone the small dudes were too afraid to fight.

It was awesome. It was so stupid and good. And the thing about them is they're honest. Like the opening fight of the evening was a guy named Tang Mo, who is not a real fighter and who got blown out in the first one. And the ringing house was like, yeah, it's his birthday, so we let him fight again. Like he shouldn't be here and he's going to lose. And he did.

But it's his birthday and he wanted to do it. So he said, sure, why not? And they just let him fight again. He lost. Like, it's honest and ridiculous. it's it is a beautiful thing and I cannot wait until Fight Circus 3 circus artist that's just going to be the best event of the year. How are you not commentating for them?

I don't get it. Are doing backstage interviews or something? I have messaged the Cam Soda people they reached out to me not about commentating, just about because I'm now clearly like on brand with Fight Circus because I love it so much. And I have reached out to them, John Nutt, the guy who runs the metal dojo. Like, I'm going to legitimately try and be involved in the commentary, or at least the creative process. Because I have ideas. They're willing to do really stupid, ridiculous stuff.

And, man, I have thoughts. So they did a kicking only match. I didn't even bring up that they ran the kicking only match back, which was also awesome. Like, this is just, it's the best of it because they don't take themselves seriously at all. and I sincerely hope that one day I get to work with them in some capacity. Throw one idea. Oh, man, I love the spinning idea. I had the spinning idea before this one.

I feel like, so they've done, we've talked a lot about like random things that we could do. And I really like the idea of doing like one guy, just a king of the hill style tournament day where one guy just fights one guy after another, after another, and see how long he can make it. It just seems awesome and something stupid and dumb that they'd allow you to do. It'd be great. Hire this man. Hire this man.

That is for sure. But that's going to do it. Another episode of Between the Links is In the Books. Hope you guys enjoyed it. Wishing you all a happy Thanksgiving, even though this is not the last you're going to see of me this week. What the heck is going to drop on Thanksgiving? going to be a loaded show, some very interesting guests.

We're going a little off brand in some ways, so that'll be fun. But that's it. So for Jose, Yous... Wait a second, Mike. You didn't... What are you thankful for? What are you thankful for in the M.M.A. world? You got us, and my bad answer, and Jose has admitted very good answer.

So what are you thankful for, Mike? I mean, I think I touch out a little bit. I mean, I'm with Jose for certain. I mean, I'm thankful for you guys and everyone who somehow decides that it's a good idea to come on this panel every Monday, work to record for a Tuesday release and just talk fighting and debate a little bit. And sometimes things are very civil and sometimes things get a little out of control. So I appreciate that. I appreciate just how accommodating everybody is in this sport between media members, the fighters who come on the shows.

There's a lot to be thankful for. Absolutely. But I don't know if I have the passion you have, Jed. I don't know. I don't think I can deliver the message as well as you can. It's tough to be as excited about anything as I am about fight circus. I'll give you that. That is for sure. That is for sure. Well, we have a lot to be thankful for it. That is for certain. And we're thankful you guys checked out the show this week for Jose. Jedmishu, Casey Lyon on the production and the judging.

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn with the introduction and the outro. I am Mike Keck. We'll see you back here once again between the links next week. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck, brought to you by MMA Fighting, a production of Vox Media. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.