MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 27 | Mike Tyson vs. Roy Jones Fallout, Anthony Smith's Big Win, Anderson Silva's Next Move

Episode Date: December 1, 2020

Check out episode 27 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and The Athletic’s Shaun Al-Shatti as they give their takes on Saturday night’s Legends Only League debut event headlined by Mike Tyson and Roy Jones Jr. fighting to a draw. They also discuss Jake Paul’s devastating knockout win over former NBA guard Nate Robinson, along with the YouTube star’s callouts of Dillon Danis and Conor McGregor.  In addition, the panel discusses the importance of Anthony Smith’s first-round submission win over Devin Clark in the main event of UFC Vegas 15—along with their three stars of the fight card—a look ahead to UFC Vegas 16, which is now headlined by Jack Hermansson vs. Marvin Vettori, and the future of former middleweight champion Anderson Silva following his release from the UFC, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @shaunalshatti Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links, your host, my... All right, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MAPFiting.com. Hope all of you who celebrated, had a wonderful Thanksgiving, and joined some extra time off if you had it, but we are back with a lot to discuss. And I'm just going to throw this out there. This is an all-adio edition of the program this week.

it is on the podcast. If you see it on YouTube, that's just cherry on top of the Sunday, because I don't know if it's going to happen that way, but our producer extraordinaire E. Casey Liden is on vacation for the next few days. Well deserved, and we're going to make things, we're going to try to make this thing work because we have a historic matchup this week. We are going to crown a brand new, undisputed between the links champion, because Phoenix Carnivali, she hasn't been able to come and defend her title,

but she will get an immediate title shot when she is ready to return to the program, but we have to move forward and we'll do that with the rematch from a few weeks back. So let us introduce the combatants and we'll get right into this thing. First, back on the show, fresh off a victory over his opponent this week in a memorable matchup, back on MMA fighting from the athletic. Our old pal, Mr. Sean Elshadie. How are you, sir? What's going on, guys?

It is a pleasure to be back. It is also a little treat to be back with Jed, who has sent me non-stop messages begging and pleading for a rematch for a rematch. for weeks upon weeks, offering me his first-born child, all of this. He's just going crazy with it. I know it really eats at him, so I'm glad he's able to get this shot back.

Yes, and as we introduce, I believe the winningest BTL panelist in history. I mean, I haven't crunched the actual numbers. I'm 1-0. How is that not mean? Undefeated. The most wins, the most victories. He's like the Rick Flair between the lengths.

He did defeat Jose Young's last week to earn this title shot from MMAfighting.com. Mr. Jedmishu. How are you, sir? Earn this title shot. I am the title shot, Mike. Jose Young's, come on. We talked about it last week.

That was a tune-up. He's a bum. He doesn't deserve to share the screen with me. Even this guy doesn't deserve to share the screen with me. That's why he had to pay Casey to leave so he could bribe you to get the victory because Casey won't make the decision and give him the soft win that he got last time. He can't even show his face against me. This is all rigged.

Everything is bad. Oh, man. I see a conspiracy theory is already. It's unraveling. You're already on tilt. You're the Philip Rivers of this show out here. You're winning matches that don't matter. But when it actually matters, it just, it all crumbles.

I can see it happening already. You're planting the seeds for this loss that you're about to suffer. No, the cards are stacked against me. And as the true champion, the goat of BTL, you know, the BMF of BTL, as we've established previously. I'm going to rise above and transcend this nonsense and claim my rightful space atop everything. Yeah, so I get to be the judge of all things, BTL this week, not just the rounds with the final question too. So we were talking about this earlier.

The fans can't see, Mike, but you're looking especially handsome today. Well, thank you very much. I did shave the dome this morning, try to even out the beard, but I appreciate the kind words. Let's get right into this thing. Let us talk about the events that overshadowed all other events on Saturday night. No, it was not Fight Circus Volume 3. It was the debut card for the Legends Only Boxing League in Los Angeles, California, headlined by the highly anticipated exhibition boxing bout between Mike Tyson and Roy Jones Jr.

It ended in a draw, and hopefully you all listened to me and hit the draw betting line in a big way after the preview show. But it sure seemed like Mike Tyson won the fight on everybody's, scorecards universally, but it is what it is. We'll dive into this event more specifically in a moment. But Jedmishu, we're going to begin with you. You won the toss this week. If you are the professor of combat sports, if you will,

and you had to give a letter grade for the execution of this event overall on Saturday, what would you give it and why? Well, two things very quickly. One, last week we didn't have a whole segment on fight circus, and I consider this a travesty that you're leading

with boxing. When you wouldn't do it for fight circus, but neither here nor there. Also, I am not the professor of fight sports. That's Stephen Quadros, and I will not stand on his corner. Sean may be willing to do so, but I will not. As far as grading this event, I don't know. It would be. I talked about this before this fight.

The way I judge kind of popularity of events is when the people outside of the fight bubble reach out to me about them. It happens every Connor fight. Basically, I get text messages from old college buddies, et cetera. Oh, how's Connor going to do this weekend? How do I watch the fight? And it happened with this one. Khabib is the only other fighter this year that I can recall.

The Connor fight in January happened. The Habib gave you fight. I had people reach out to me. And then this Jones Tyson, I know a bunch of people who ended up buying the pay-per-view, despite me saying that they probably shouldn't. And they all left feeling satisfied. I mean, it's a bit of a paradox because you tune into a mic. Tyson fight not to watch him go eight rounds.

You tune in to watch him hopefully go one round or less, and that was obviously not what we got. But the undercard fights were fun, even for people who don't know anything about boxing. Jake Paul just leveled Nate Robinson, which was a kick joker. I'm sure we'll talk about that in a bit. And then the main event, I mean, I think it's about as good as you could expect those two guys to look, given their age, time off, and the fact that this is an exhibition. I mean, that's how every exhibition looks, right?

You know, neither guy's trying super hard, but one guy is trying a little harder than the other. And I think Tyson, I think if we asked that question beforehand, everybody would have said, yeah, Tyson will be the guy who tries a little harder. And, but he looked good for, you know, almost 60 and having not fought in almost two decades. So overall, I, it wasn't the worst way to spend your Saturday evening. And I think the people who bought it feel satisfied. So solid B didn't really exceed expectations, though. What do you think, Sean, did we get our $50 worth? What would you grade this event?

Didn't really exceed expectations. That's surprising because I feel like that was the main narrative coming out of it, that it did exceed expectations because I came into it expecting to feel sad. Like, really, that was my main expectation. If I can get out of tonight not feeling sad, that's a win for me. And so for me, I'd give it an A-minus. maybe that's generous, but I came away from that having fun. Like that was a legitimately fun night at no point did I feel depressed about what I was watching,

which maybe is a very low bar, but that's the bar, right? It's like you were saying, I as well had a lot of friends and just randoms in my life. Text me like, like what's going on with this fight? How do I buy this fight? And like you, I sort of use that as a judge of just maybe how popular this thing could be. And other than, even for me, other than Khabi, I had to think no other fight this year has. exceeded the amount of inquiries I got for this one. Even Connor, this one got a lot.

I would actually be really interested to see the pay-per-view number on this because I think it's going to be surprisingly good for sort of what was put together. But yeah, man, I had fun. I had a lot of fun. I was telling, Mike, I was telling you before we started the show, I had this setup on my laptop where, you know, half my laptop was my writing space and then a quarter was UFC and a quarter was this boxing event.

And over the course of the night, the boxing event became bigger and bigger and bigger on my screen. and the UFC became smaller and smaller because it was just obvious that one was much more interesting and entertaining than the other. I give it a minus. I really enjoyed it.

I came away from it intrigued in the future of this. Like if Mike Tyson wants to continue to do this against other, I don't want to, I don't want to, I've already seen people suggesting like he goes and fights real people. Like let's not, let's not get crazy here. Let's not make more out of this than it should be.

Like he should not do that. But if he's going to go out there and fight random legends around his age, like, I would be really interested in watching this. Mike Tyson is still a really just fascinating and captivating individual on a lot of levels, whether it's in a fight or just hearing him speak. Dude's out here getting stoned before this whole. I can't openly be talking about it.

I love it, man. I actually really enjoyed it, and I'd give it an A-minus. Yeah, I mean, the fight was what it was. It was fun. You didn't feel sad afterwards. And then kind of looking at the rest of the card, wanted to give a shout-out to Jermaine Ortiz, Wista, Massachusetts native, had a nice, seventh round TKO win. He looked really good in the main card opener. We got Badoo Jack,

picked up a unanimous decision win over Blake McCurton. I didn't think that fight would go the distance, but it did. But it shouldn't have gone the distance. I know, right? I mean, it was it was a drubbing, but good on Blake for for hanging in there and a fight he took on super short notice. But you mentioned Jake Paul, Jen Michoud. He took on former NBA guard, Nate Robinson. He knocked him dead. And honestly, of all the fights that took place over the weekend, And you hate to say, but was Jake Paul the star of the weekend? I mean, yeah. I don't know that I hate to say it.

It's just a fact. And it's fine. I mean, Jake Paul arguably would have been the star of the weekend anyway. I don't remember the first time he fought like what kind of traffic that pulled. But the reality is Jake Paul, Mike Tyson is probably the biggest name who fought this past weekend, just because of his whole history and everybody still probably knows Mike Tyson. And a lot of people probably don't know Jake Paul, but a ton of people in the world know who Jake Paul is.

Jake Paul is a very famous individual with a certain demographic. And so if they tune in a lot, I mean, he would have been the star anyway. And then give the man his due, turned in a good performance. Like he's, look, Jake Paul, I saw a lot of people talking about this afterwards and a lot of MMA fighters like coming for them and that's fine. I mean, do what you have to do, I guess, get that shine. But the simple fact is Jake Paul is taking this seriously to at least some extent. Nate Robinson obviously was not.

Nate Robinson looked like a dude who had never fought in his life and who had not trained for this at all. Like the way he just ran charging in is how if you go train at all, like the first day of sparring for anybody looks like that. Nate Robinson clearly didn't know what he was doing. and Jake Paul has very obviously worked to be a boxer. Is he a great boxer? No, is he a good boxer?

No, he is not a good boxer at all. But he knows a little bit and he keeps working at it. And so he will, by nature, get a little bit better. And because of who he is, he's going to get to keep fighting people. And he probably will get to keep beating up a lot of them as well. So, you know, good for him. And, hey, he turned in a good performance. You can't take that away from him.

him. It is not a lot of people in their life get to say, hey, I just flatlined a dude. And he did. And the duty flatline may have been a bad fighter as well, but super, super good athlete. So there's something to say for that. I think Jake, Jake is also an interesting case study, right, of sort of the weird perception that we get in combat sports from from outsiders, from people who don't really partake in it, right? Because I feel like we don't see this. in basketball or football. There aren't many people who are sitting there watching from the couches, watching Tom Brady or whoever and just saying,

oh, I could throw that 70-yard pass in traffic across the field or, oh, I can hit that 35-yard or 35-foot three-pointer with LeBron James on my face. But there's a weird, like, phenomenon in combat sports where a lot of males in particular just have this inflated sense of like how we would act in a fight in our level of toughness, just inherently, even if we've never trained at all. And that is something that I think gets exposed against the guy

like a Jake Paul, right? Where you're right, Nate Robinson, poor Nate Robinson. I talked to him before this fight, and it felt like he was taking it seriously, but you watch it, and it was obvious that he had not nearly put the level of work into it that he probably should have. But that's the cliche, right? You don't play boxing.

You don't play MMA. Like, you go in there, and it's a real thing. And you see it in any MMA gym or any boxing gym. If a person has one or even two years of just actual experience of having spent time in, doing this, they are essentially a Terminator walking around among the rest of the world. Because most people in the world just don't actually understand even base levels of just how to fight.

Dude, nobody can fight. Yeah. Like, I guarantee you, and there are going to be a lot of people who hear this and are just like super angry, you can't fight. Like, you, you guy getting really mad at me right now, you can't fight. Like, you're a hundred percent. Nobody knows how to freaking fight, man. A two-stripe, a two-stripe white belt is.

is essentially a god amongst men, if you just put them in a room with a bunch of normal people. And this is what we just saw again with Jake Paul. Like Nate Robinson hasn't boxed ever. And Jake Paul has, for whatever you think about him, and I think poorly of him, he's taken this seriously and had world-class trainers and coaches and teammates and sparring partners and whoever for a couple years now.

And he should be at the level where he can flatline that guy. I don't care about Jake Paul. I think the Connor McGregor thing is obviously silly. That's never going to happen. Dillard Dennis would, that would be, I would actually be somewhat interested in watching that just because of obviously the circumstances involved in. But I do like the idea of him just essentially becoming, we talk about fake belts all the time. We got fake belts out in the show even.

Give him the celebrity belt, right? Like, give him the celebrity belt and let him just fight other celebrities and just see who's the king's celebrity fighter. Like, that's actually, I would become minorly interested in following that and just seeing who you could coax into like, oh, I could beat Jake Paul up and trying that type of thing. are you are you certain that connor muregerger won't happen because if if jake paul boxes dylan danis i would no i have 100% positive 100% because here's why i won't happen the the the the win loss on it is so deeply in one side's favor of the other like the best case scenario is connor win jake paul is 2 and o and connor's o and one in boxing no no no no hear me out because best case scenario,

Connor goes in there and knocks him out as he should. And everybody just says, well, yeah, you're two division UFC champion. You should knock this guy out. Worst cases, Connor goes in there and either loses or just doesn't even look that impressive. And then Conner's McGregor's stock will never ever recover from something like that. See that.

The win loss, just probability on that. Like, that guy has a billion options. He's never going to go for that option. I don't know, man. If he, if Jake Paul boxes Dylan Dennis,

I would reflexively pick Dylan Danes just because Dylan Danis at least is, like we just said, Dylan Dennis can fight. It's a different kind of fighting, but there's enough transition there that would make me think Dylan Dennis will win even if I'm not massively confident in it. But I could see Jake Paul winning. And if Jake Paul beats Dylan Dennis, like, that's a pretty big money fight that Connor can actually win. Like Connor may not fight Mani, who can say?

and if he does is good for him, he's going to get them checks, boy. I think he will end up fighting May. I'm going to throw out of it. He'll lose that fight, and so it'll be overdue in boxing. So I don't know, get a soft win for Jake Paul. Make a billion dollars to knock out a YouTuber. That seems like really good business to me. Oh, man.

Last thing on this, and we'll move ahead to the other event that took place on Saturday. Sean said he's excited to see more, Jed. He said he's intrigued. Did you come out of Saturday night saying, you know what? I'm excited to see what else these folks that Legends only can come up with. I mean, sure. I'm always excited to watch or interested, I guess, is a better word, to watch off-kilter or weird combat. Like I am, like Fight Circus.

We all know at this point how much I love that. And this is maybe not the same. but as we've also discussed many times, one of my very absolute favorite fights of all time is Kimbo versus Dada. And so like, yeah, give me something else. I will say just to end this here, the thing that I left that event the most feeling is not,

okay, I'll keep watching Jake Paul box, other random people who don't know how to fight, because I will. But really it was, I am way more interested now in the Anderson-Silver boxing match than I was. Because forever, That was a waste of time.

I still largely think it is because Roy Jones really knows how to box and Anderson doesn't. And Roy may or may not have taken the whole event fairly lightly, which is why he kind of looked a little bad there. I still would assume that Roy Jones Jr. would beat Anderson Silva even an exhibition match. But I can see that playing out in a much more interesting dynamic way than I had ever previously thought. So I am way more interested in that fight coming off of the event this weekend. I agree with you 100% on that. One of my big takeaways is I would actually be interested in seeing that now. And it feels like a perfect time for it, right?

Like Anderson Silva is out here floating in the ether trying to find something to do. That would be interesting. One other note on this before we move on. Also came away really intrigued in the idea of Israel-A-Sanja continuing to sort of explore the broadcast booth. Because I thought he was really good, man. That is not an easy thing to get dropped in there with no real notice or preparation or having done that experience. at all before. And he dropped in and he felt like a really, like he had some rough spots and he kept repeating himself a lot. And he swore more than any other color commentator I've ever seen in my life.

But I enjoyed it for the most part. I thought he was interesting. I thought he towed a nice line of explaining, is explaining stuff in a nice way while also be entertaining. Having Morrow there helps you out because Morrow is such a captain when it comes to captain in a ship like that but I actually really dug Izzy in the combat booth that or the broadcast booth I should say and I hope he continues to explore that because he could have a future there. I agree. He did a great job. Plus during the main event, he got Snoop dogs screaming and yelling all sorts of randomness and he kept his cool throughout that whole thing. I don't know if I would have been able to keep my cool through that whole situation. But yeah, a lot of, you know, like Snoop? He was much better suited for

this type of event than he was for the contender series. No doubt about it. Snoop is good in small doses. Like, he can't do a lot, but I think he actually was like no perfect for this sort of carnival thing. He's good in small doses, and he's good when the mood is right. Like, this needed levity because it was a situation that deserved levity. He wasn't, he was terrible on contender series because that is a serious situation of the utmost seriousness, where these are people who have worked their entire lives to get to this spot. And this is more or less the biggest opportunity of their life. and he's just up there belittling it.

Like that doesn't, the vibe is off with that. Yeah, I think, I think for me it was, I thought the commentary, him being in the booth for Jake Paul versus Nate Robinson was perfect. It was perfect. I had had enough. I was like, all right, he did good. I'm happy with it. Then he did like a 22 minute performance of like every hit song he's ever had. Okay, a little more snoop.

I felt nostalgic. 12 year old Mike was up and jumping up and down. But then to put him in back in the. booth after that performance and for the main event i just i wasn't a fan i was snooped out at that point but he was fine which is too much part part of that too probably is because we as m m mp people have a little PTSD from the snoop comptory experience so we come in with a little bit more of a negative mindset on it for sure not like he's got a new bag of tricks it's yeah the same stuff so yeah i mean like you guys said i'm excited to see where the pay-per-view numbers are when that is all said and done and uh

But this vacant title match will continue. What a strong start to this one. The opening point goes to Jedmishu. He is on the board, but man, that was tough to pick. I have a feeling one of you guys

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Service fees exclusions and terms apply. We move ahead to UFC Vegas 15, the other event, which was clearly not star-studded by any stretch of the imagination. But some good storylines in the aftermath, one of which was Anthony Smith picking up a first-round submission win over Devin Clark. Of course, Curtis Blades versus Derek Lewis. That was postponed after a Blades positive COVID-19 test. But it was a very important fight for Anthony Smith, Sean, Al Shadi. How big was this win for Anthony Smith-Shaw? Because it seemed like their kid had been a lot more at stake than just wins and losses on Saturday for him.

I mean, I know we make light of it, and we have already on this show, because of the circumstances of this event. It was probably the worst UFC event of the year, if not in the past several years. Just in terms of a talent standpoint, it was very, very talented. on start. It's hard to find a lot to talk about. But this was a big one for Anthony Smith. I've been a lot lately. Worst of into the year seems to be a common theme the last six weeks. You're not wrong, man. And we got another one ahead of us. So you're not wrong there. But this was a big one for Anthony Smith, just if we're focusing solely on Anthony Smith, because it did feel like, for the most part, he was fighting for his livelihood as a contender. Just in the space entirely.

Like it is one thing to go out there and to lose to a Glover, to Chera, or to lose to even an Alexander Rackich. That's understandable, especially sort of within the space that light heavyweights in. It's got a lot of new guys coming up. Glover is sort of this old dog. But to go out there and lose someone like Devin Clark, that sort of changes the narrative in Brown to entirely, right? Because Devin Clark is someone who's been in our lives for several years at this point. He's kind of up and down. He's one of those roller coaster guys that win two, lose one, win one, lose one.

he's lost a fight every single, I think all five years of his UFC existence. If Anthony Smith loses to that guy, then suddenly we think differently about how Anthony Smith can function within this division. He becomes a much lower rung on the ladder here. So I thought he went out there and he did exactly what he needed to do. It was two and a half minutes over quickly, sent the East Coaster's home happy because I know at that point it's like 1 a.m. and no one wants to be watching this. So I thought he did well, man.

I like the idea of Anthony coming in here and continuing, at least for the, this little stretch here, fighting guys like the Paul Craigs and like the Jimmy Crutes and things like that, fighting these new guys who are coming up in the division, a little bit of the new guard, and seeing where Anthony still stands in this division. Hi, it was mute for a second because I was listening so intently. Jed, what do you think? Like, how big was this win for Anthony Smith? Like, I don't feel like anybody walked out of that event saying, man, Anthony Smith should

get the next title shot, but still coming in, losing three or four, losing his last two, didn't look great really in the rackage fight at all. But this is a big one for him. It wasn't, you know, the top 10 opponent you would like to see him do it against, but still going in there and making a statement like that, this was huge for him, was it not? I mean, it was necessary. I guess maybe by definition that makes it huge just because of the ramifications of a loss here. But I do want to quibble with something, Sean said,

because I think this is a fairly pervasive sentiment in the MMA world. And it's one that I don't have a way to say that isn't going to sound mean. But when you're talking about Devin Clark being a guy who wins to lose his one or wins a couple, yeah, that's just Anthony Smith. I don't know if anyone, everyone just has forgotten that because. No, that's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. Nine and five in the UFC. Okay.

But he has four better, maybe three better wins that are better than Devin Clark's best win. He's doing that at a higher level. He's doing it at a more of a top 10 level rather than an unranked level. There's a big difference there. Let's be really clear. He is definitely like a step above, but it is not a big one outside of Anthony Smith's three one, three win run to a title shot in a barren division with wins over the esteemed Rashad Evans and Mauricio Huga, who are Hall of Famers, but were old and washed. when he beat them. Like his best win is the the Gustafson win,

which is a great win. I know. I'm not here to say that it's not a, it's not, I don't think it's a great win anymore. It's a good win because Gustafson is frankly washed and probably was washed going into that. And Gustafsson was piecing him up.

I think the context matters. Anthony Smith is a good, not great fighter who by virtue of circumstance has found himself in great positions. And hasn't been. able to capitalize because, I mean, it's really, really tough to beat John Jones. So can't really knock him for losing there. But I don't, this win doesn't make me think that he's a future title contender. All this win does is say, hey, you're not totally washed and that's great.

You can keep contributing. But I don't think he's ever getting back to a title shot, even in a newly opened light, heavyweight division. I think he is just going to settle into the middle of, of, you know, the top 15 of a bad division because he is, again, a good, not great fighter. And so he, he got a win back. He might win his next one, especially he takes on Paul Craig, who is probably not as good as he is. And then he'll lose when he fights, I don't know, Diago Santos again. So it's, I don't, I think it mattered because a loss here, maybe he just hangs it up. But I don't know that it, you know, this is not going to kickstart his future title run.

No, yeah. And I don't think anybody is actually claiming that. I think it more like I said, it's just to, to preserve his spot in this sport, more or less, is right? Because he is somebody who has a win over Volcanoes the mayor who's highly ranked in this division now and is viable now in this division. He's someone who has a win over Shogun. That was a quick win. You said guts to see him as well.

Highly ranked in this division says that. Dude, that says more about the state of the division. Everything you need to know about light heavyweight. But that is the state of it. They're working with what they have. It may not be the best division right now, and it's definitely not. Yombo Kovits is the champion. But it is what it is.

Don't disrespect legendary Polish power because he is going to work, Izzy, and then everybody is going to be on board. Wow. I don't know that that's even a hot take. That is a closer fight than people think it is. It's definitely a hot take, but I actually do think that's a really close fight, and I hope he wins setting up the John versus Jan fight that we've all been wanting for years.

Well, I mean, Lionheart was clearly the star of the show on Saturday, at least on the UFC portion of combat sports events. But let us shine some light on some of the other performers on Saturday night, because despite being a lacklust of card on paper, there were some fighters who delivered. So we're back with the three-star segment on the program. So Jed, outside of Anthony Smith, who are your three stars of UFC Vegas-15? Man.

Well, the first one, really quick. Oh, man. At the beginning of that really explains everything you need to know about that event. Yeah. And so the fact of the matter is it actually wasn't that bad of an event to watch. But there's just so little name value to it that it really puts a cap on how excited you can be about anything happening here. It was a high-level regional show. Pretty good.

pretty accurate representation there. And so, like, so for instance, my, my number one with a bullet here, and I assume Sean will share this one, the Sumu Dariji, I'm sure I'm confident. I butchered that. Sorry, my apologies, sincerely. Like, that should be the takeaway from this event that people are excited about because of exactly this, like, under the radar guy who turns in a sensational performance, and now he's one to watch, not, oh, man, this is the only good thing.

that we can hang our hat on because the rest of this card is pretty man. I'll also throw Gina Mazzani in there just because, you know, I thought for certain that was going to end up going to a decision. And I'm a sucker for a good body shot that leads to a KO, that front kick or teeve for Mazzani to just ruin Ostevich's guts and finish the fight. That'll get the extra special for me. And then the last one I, I struggled because I think the obvious answer here is Miguel Baezza's co-main event, and that was a great performance.

But just to be a little different, because I assume Sean will take that one as well, I will go with Bill Algeo just because Spike Carlisle has a bit of a name. Certainly looks impressive. And Algeo turned in a really, really solid performance all the way around. And then I loved his work on the mic afterward, you know, calling out Gigatechie. Kodzzi. I'm down. Let's watch that fight. That fight seems really fun. And Algeo is probably the guy maybe outside of Miguel Beazza that I'm the most interested to see fight next. Shah, what say you? Any, any different ones? Yeah, he is right that I am going to highlight Miguel Baezza because that was, I think he is now someone that we officially just have to pay attention to at Welterweight.

We at Welterweight and Middleweight in particular have a lot of these guys coming up who are just younger. They've been in the game for maybe a little bit. They're very clearly, very talented, and the division's going out to reckon with them in some capacity, probably sooner rather than later. That feels like where we are with Miguel Baez. I mean, he's three and O in the UFC now. All three have been pretty impressive. And all three, he's showing off a little bit different nuances of his game. Like, knocking out Matt Brown is one thing, but then subbing Takashi Saddo. Like, that was a very slick way that all unfolded. So he's definitely one for me. I also agree. And I I don't know how to, I'm going to butcher this name, but Sue,

uh, muda, muddha, um, do, do, da, da, um, am I, I need John Anak here to help I know, right? I know, right. I don't know if that's right, but that's what, that sounds, that sounds more correct than I just said. So we'll go of that. Um, I like, I liked his performance man. I know this is somebody who's lost in the UFC before, but this was his debut as a flyweight and he looked effing massive for that division. He's listed at five eight. He looks five, 5-10, and I think it was because of the way he sort of carries himself. He's a more broad, like long, lean type of guy. But also, like, that 72-inch reach for flyweight is, that's a lot, man. Like, Max Holloway, we consider a lanky guy. He's got, well, like a 69-inch reach.

Like a 72-inch reach for a flyweight is pretty interesting. You add that to the fact that this dude obviously has actual power, and he seems like he has a very nice jab in there as well. He's piecing up Malcolm Gordon with that jab. I liked that a lot, so he's definitely one as well. for my third star, I'll throw out Parker Porter, man. This might be one of the most unlikely UFC ten years I've ever seen. Like, this guy forever to me was just someone who was on John Jones's early resume, who was a total can that just got beaten by one of the goats, and I would never have to think of him in any other capacity.

And the fact that he is actually here, I don't even know what, like 10 years later, 10 years after that, and putting on fights on a UFC main card and winning those fights actually fairly, convincingly, like, it wasn't the best fight, but it's still impressive to me. So on a short-staffed event, I would give Parker Porter my third one. It's great seeing Parker Porter get wins. I've seen him fight on the regional seat a few times. I was at the John Jones fight. One of my first events I ever went to, it was crazy to even just think about and see him in the UFC and getting wins and crazy fights with Josh Parisian. It was a wild scene. Before you move on, because you both

sort of touched on this, and it's something I've actually been thinking about since Saturday, because I'm trying to make sense of like what constitutes a good fight card for the UFC. And I guess like what should make us excited at the end of day? Because like you look at certain events on paper like this one and you think to yourself, man, this card sucks. It's not good. But then a lot of times, especially this year, it plays out. And maybe it's because the expectations are so low that it like over delivers, right?

Like we see a ton of finishes, some fun scraps. And then people go on Twitter like, see? People said it was a trash card. You don't judge a book by its cover. And on the flip side, that's ridiculous. Right. But on the flip side, you see these events that have like really competitive matchups on paper and they deliver competitive fights and you get some high level MMA.

But a lot of fans are like, oh, it was all a bunch of decisions. The card last week there was headline by whoever or whoever was way more exciting to watch. And I know it's impossible to please all MMA fans besides a few select examples. But like, how the hell do we find middle ground, Sean? Like people want stars. We all do. I get that, but how can we, I guess, make the most of this crazy world when it comes to UFC events on paper, Sean? I feel like there's generally a misconception when it comes to judging MMA cards of the judging after the fact of, oh, you know, this had a lot of finishes.

This had a lot of exciting fights, therefore it was good. Like, I don't know that that's actually the metric, which we can go because I can go to watch Rage in the Cage right here in Arizona. And a lot of those finishes are a lot of those fights are going to be finishes and a lot of them are going to be pretty excited. And it's like, okay, yeah, like that was an enjoyable night, but that doesn't mean it was a good fight card. I think for me, something has to feel consequential. There has to feel like actual, something is being decided that is important, something that matters. There needs to be actual stakes. And you can't get that with a lot of the lower ranked talent, a lot of the unranked talent and talent

that is unknown to you like a Sue Mudata Jirio. Again, I'm sorry, I'm but that type of thing. Those are fun to see like, hey, this is somebody that I could pay attention. to, but that in and of itself in a bunch of finishes doesn't make a good fight card to me. I need to feel invested in the people who are involved. I need to feel invested in what's at stake. It just needs to feel, again, consequential to me. Because a lot of this, other than the main event, and even that was only slightly a feeling of consequentialness. A lot of this was just fights, right? It's just random dudes that you could have just picked up off the street and told me they're a

UFC fighter and I would have believed you because that was just kind of what we were dealing with. What do you think, Jed? I mean, listen, I try to be as positive as I can, but, you know, going into this event, especially when you lost Eric Lewis versus Curtis Blades, which, you know, probably like a month ago, you're like, oh, this is a very important fight for this division. And now it really wasn't as important because of the players involved right now. You have a champion that's out for a little while. Most pretty much everybody believes France and Ghana who is next.

Who knows when that fight's going to happen? And now we have John Jones in there. So the fight didn't really wasn't as circumstantial as it could have been. had it been like six months a year or so ago when it was booked. But how do we look at these cards? Like what's fair? How do we try to find middle ground here? Is it even possible?

Well, pretty simply, the determiner of what makes a good fight card is the number of two on one and three on a fight card. The more of those you have, the more specialty rules, then that makes the card better. But if you're not going to have those and you're going to put on good fights that matter, I mean, I think it's pretty simple here, right? Like, one, I will just say Sean Shelby has done a good job in making competitive or interesting matchup. So give him credit in that regard. The fights he is making are leading to exciting outcomes because they are mostly well-matched

fights or at least match with purpose. But what makes the fight card itself interesting is like what Sean said. I mean, there just has to be stakes that matter to people because this could, be a cage-age card. Like, this could be any number of generic regional card. And I encourage anyone listening, if you haven't been to a regional MMA show, find one near you and go. They are honestly, hell of fun to go to. Super fun. But you're going to see, you're going to see a lot of fights to look like this, frankly. Like, you're going to see a lot of finishes, a lot of not super competitive bouts, because the lower down that mountain you are, that's just what happens. And the reason

you may, as you alluded to, Mike, you know, when we get these bigger name fights, fight cards, they might lead to more decisions and less overall excitement. Because the stakes are higher, fighters are taking it far more seriously. They're not willing to just kind of go balls out and see what happens and let the dust settle. Like that's what happens when bigger money matters. Like when your outcome is dependent more on your win purse than on potentially getting a fight bonus, the only real way to make this work or to kind of get to a more even keel is to have a mix of both. And that's what's been a failing on these previous fight cards.

Now, some of that has been the fact that COVID is running just rampant through everything and upsetting the Apple cart. But, I mean, we came into this fight with like 12 people on it, don't have wikis. They're just an infinite number of people off the contender series here. There has to be a little bit more. There has to be some more name fighters taking on up-and-comers or taking on other name fighters with a sprinkling of the newcomers. the unheralded not. Hey, we're going to give you one, maybe two fights at the top of people you probably know and are interested in and that matter.

And then the rest of it is contender series people because we got to fill fight card space because we got to get 42 events to make our ESPN deal crack. Well, we'll certainly see if we can get a card that delivers this Saturday ahead of UFC Vegas 16, just three more fight cards for the UFC in for the rest of 2020, 2020 heading into 2021, but the point for this round goes to Sean Alshaddy. He is tied. I thought I stole it with the fight circus reference. It was hilarious. You made, uh, you made strides. You made us laugh. But, uh, in the end, Sean gets it done. As we, uh, we look ahead to UFC Vegas 16. We have a new main event for that card. Once again, Jack Hermanson signed a headline this event. He has gone from

Darren Till to Kevin Holland. And now he's going to fight Marvin Vittoria. Saturday night in Las Vegas. Kevin Holland tests positive for COVID-19, and we found it on Saturday during the broadcast. Maybe the most surprising thing I saw of all of these things, considering it was a COVID test, considering he was supposed to headline a card a week prior, Kevin Holland is fighting Jacare Sozae UFC-256 on December 12th

just a week later. So, Jed, before we get into the card itself, what do you make of this middleweight musical chairs? Do you like these matchups better, or did you prefer Vittori Jacques-Rae and Hermanson Holland more than what we're getting. I mean, I feel a little bad for Jacker Manson, I guess, off the rip. Darren Till was a very winnable, a highly ranked opponent for him

that would have put him really right in the thick of title contention, which he probably isn't just because he did have the recent loss to Jared Canaaner. But, you know, a win over Till really gets him right in the thick of it. Moving from that to Kevin Holland, Holland pretty sure isn't ranked. Maybe he's like maybe he got ranked this week or something, but I think he's still outside looking in. But he's had a really great 2020, obviously, four fights this year, three fights this year, one of the two. All wins, I mean, looked really good. So that fight made sense, you know, as a fallback option.

And now the Marvin Vittori fight, I mean, I guess it makes sense. And he is now getting a ranked opponent. So there's maybe a little bit there. But frankly, I kind of think the Kevin Holland win would do a little more for him. than this Vitori win should he get it. Plus now he has to fight a guy with basically no notice for him. I got to think that he's maybe going to have a little bit of trouble getting up for this fight just because of all the changes that have happened for him.

And then especially to see that Kevin Holland since got pushed back a week, hey, man, I could have just moved back a week too and fought him and you could have picked whoever to headline this event. The problem being they don't, they don't, they don't, have anybody else to headline this weekend's card here unless you want osp versus jem hall hill like i get that would i assume be the next one up so this card we just spoke about it this is the new worst card of the year uh and if they had gotten rid of jacker manson it would have really been the new worst card of the year so he is just a bit of a victim of circumstance and it kind of sucks for

him what are your thoughts on the shakeup at one eighty five here sean with these two events Yeah, I got to start by echoing the credit to Jackermanson. I don't know. Have you seen the clip that's sort of going around making the rounds of him finding out the news of Kevin Holland testing positive for COVID? Dude just at that point looks so exhausted of this sort of circumstance. It's just like whoever. Just get me in there. Let me get a paycheck at this point.

I liked the previous matchups better, if I'm being honest. I mean, I think Kevin Holland kind of put himself in a nice spot where he, He was in the outside, the periphery of the conversation for Fighter of the Year, fighter of the year, all of a sudden, where if he goes in there and he beats Jack or Manson, that's 5 and 0 since May. And a lot of those were short notice, opponent falling out, whoever, just coming up. Like, that's really impressive. If you're putting together an all pandemic team, like they do in all NBA, where there's all NBA teams,

like, stealing that idea. Kevin Holland is a first teamer, no question. Like, he's right up there. He's killed this year. So I thought that was, he deserved a shot like that, where you're just getting the random Gilbert Burns getting the Tyron Woodley rather than Leon Edwards. He's just getting the random guy that's really highly ranked that maybe moves you into the conversation ahead of schedule. But I think the UFC did the best they could to figure it out, right?

Like essentially it's just Marvin Vittori and Kevin Holland just swapping opponents once this all settled. I question how logistically this works. Like even if Kevin Holland is asymptomatic, I don't know. like how's giving him another week enough, right? Like we don't know a lot. Like we still don't even know a lot about COVID, but it feels like another week wouldn't be enough to get him in the clear and like actually properly prepared.

But hey, what do I know? I'm not a professional cage fighter dealing with something like this. But ultimately, I, Vittori deserved some type of big fight. I think the Jacques-Rae fight was more in line with what he deserved. But hey, that's somebody who's been succeeding quietly behind the scenes for a little bit now. His only loss over the last three years was to Izzy. And even though he will go to his grave saying that he won that fight, he didn't win that fight, but it was still a very competitive fight when it comes to the land of Izzy fights.

I think that's something to be said for that. So I like the way it ended up. The card itself is rough. There's no way around that. It is really one of the worst ones we have seen all year following one of the worst ones we have seen all year. So it's a rough state of affairs. But, you know, then the last two events are at least pretty good. And one of them is very, very good.

So, you know, like we're just going through a little bit of, of a rough patch right now. I think that's just kind of what we have to do in 2020. It's a lot of rolling with the punches. And a lot of these guys, the Kevin Hollins and the Jack Hermansans, just rolling with the punches at this point, just trying to get this year done and get those paychecks wherever they can because sometimes just things aren't going to work out for you. Yeah, this car was supposed to have originally Marab Duolish Willie versus Cody Stamen, which would have been a lot of fun. And then Stamen got an injury. He was out of the fight. And then we got Marab versus Hione Barcelos. Both were excellent fights. It would have been excellent additions

of this card, but now neither are happening. We have a new main event. I mean, I guess, Sean, let's try to put a positive spin on this. There are some interesting bouts in the card. Is there any compelling fight or storyline that sticks out to you outside of the main event? I mean, I really like Nate Landware. He's a psychopath. He's a legitimate crazy man.

We talk about shit eating wild men in this sport, and he is the definition of a shitty and wild man in the sport. He is just trying to have as much fun in the sport. there as possible. I, I've spoken to him for a couple different pieces, and he is just a joy to talk. He's a very weird and wild guy, and he's a maniac out there. So Nate Landware, I can't pronounce his opponent. I'm not even going to try. Mobs are at Leve. There you go, three and O in the UFC. That's a pretty nice fight. I want to figure that one out because that dude might be around for a minute. Yeah, he has has been impressive. I'm just terrible with names, so like I try to get the out if I can. And also, John Voltae's finally fighting.

I've been fooled by like 40 different Wikipedia entries for Gian Valon versus Todd Duffy on these random cards for whoever keeps putting that up on Wikipedia, and he's finally fighting. So it's nice to not be fooled by this one. Jed, any diamonds in the rough here? Anything that is flying under the radar, this is like your bread and butter here, something that we should get excited about that maybe we're not as excited about right now. Look, I stand by my statement that this isn't a good fight card because I think that's true. true. I will say that I actually think that there has has real potential for some of these bouts to be really fun, just because I think they've got some decent, decently matched fights.

Louis Smolka, Jose Alberto Quinoez, that's probably going to be a really action-pack scrap one way or the other. Matt Wyman, I don't really know why he's still fighting, but I am marginally interested in seeing Matt Wyman compete in the year 2020 because of all the people from that kind of era to still be throwing down. Matt Wyman would not have been the guy I thought who'd still be flying in the UFC. So credit to him. When in doubt, I always say go with the heavies. And John Volante is fighting a dude who, uh, Jake Collier is a weirdo and has a win. He's a heavyweight with a spinning back kick to the body, K.O. I think that, there may be three people on the planet who can say they have that particular box checked in

their resume. So I'll watch Rambolete throw bongos with that dude. Why not? And then Moser Avlov is probably going to be really, really good. And the Nate Landre fight is, I don't know how interesting it'll be, but how exciting it'll be, but it's really interesting because I think Nate Lander, like Sean, is a good prospect. and Mavar Avalov is definitely a really good prospect, who we have a real chance to see this guy kind of rise up.

So there's enough to like. It's not the worst thing you can do with your Saturday night. But again, going back to what we were just talking about, like if the Marab Vála Shvili fight, Cody Stamen, if that was still on this and the main event was still on it, this would be a better card. Like it would, they just need a little bit more real to season out the rest of, of this kind of lackluster stuff.

I do want to play a real fun game, though, that I've taken to playing for all of these fight nights. Sean, over-under on the number of fighters without Wikipedia pages. I'm going to set the over-under at seven and a half, and would you like to take the over or the under? So how many fights are on the card? Let's take a real check here. Five.

11. 10 or 11? 9, 10, 11. 11 fights in the card, meaning 22 fighters over under 7.5. Way over. I'm hitting that over hard. I'm putting all my bank account on that over. There's no way.

It's at least like half, I would imagine. Nine. I thought only 8.5 would just give it away too much. But nine. So almost 50% of the fighters do not have. Wikipedia pages, so there's that. Be a rich man. I wish you could bet on these things.

I got to be great. Mike, you were asking earlier, what determines a good fight cards? Wikipedia pages? I'm not saying it's 100% accurate, but I suspect if you went back in history and looked at the fight cards that had a hundred percent rate of fighters with wikis on them, we would never be like, that's a trash card. general rules here if almost 50% of the people competing don't have wikis, maybe not a great fight night. There you go. Jimmy Flicks on this card.

I'm interested to see how he does against Cody Durden. Matt Wyman's fighting Jordan Levitt. Very interesting guy, I believe he's the first contract winner out the Contender Series this past season. So he's in there. And another over-under for everyone to consider right now. Since Damon Jackson is fighting, I'll set the over-under at two-and-a-half times that he's called Damon Martin from

MMA fighting, which there's no doubt about it. That's going to happen at least once, but we'll put it at two and a half and we'll see what happens. But I'm open-minded with this card. I'll be watching it. There are some fun fights, some good prospects, so we'll see what happens as we prepare ourselves for the final question of regulation. And in the lead

is Jedmishu. The Wikipedia thing got you over the hum, my friend. Trying to insert new games within the game. I dig that. It's a really fun game. We should play it all the time. I feel like in this It's a good game to play. A lot of Uber is going to be hitting on that game.

But let us, we mentioned him earlier. Let us end regulation talking about Anderson Silva, gentlemen. He has been released by the UFC, credit to our own Guillermo Cruz for getting that information out there first. But since then, we've seen Bellator, one championship, BKFC, and others say, you know what? We like Anderson Silva. Respect what he has done in his career. Thanks, but no thanks. We're not really interested in being in the Anderson Silva game at this point.

And then shout out to my buddy Drake Griggs for this. Risen is interested in Anderson Silva, as well as XFC, who has since returned with events. They're on NBC Sports Network. They had their first event about a month or so ago. They are interested in him as well. So first off, Shot al-Shadi, are you surprised that the Scott Cokers, the Chotteries, the David Feldman's of the world, that they have come out publicly and said, you know what, we're not interested in being in the Anderson Silva business? Do you believe them at the end of the day? I have to admit, I am a little surprised.

I am a little surprised. I expected of all the Hall of Famers on their last legs and it's a sad situation type of situation, like Anderson Silva is probably the most viable out of most of the people that we've seen do this, right? Like he's not he's not losing to bums. He's not obviously shot in a way where like he's just so terrible. He's still a capable fighter. Actually, I think we probably debated this last time I was on. He still feels like a very capable fighter who could probably beat a lot of middleweights in the world

and beat that Anderson Silva, put together that Anderson Silva magic in some capacity and still a big name. And I'm a little surprised. I wonder if his price tag is maybe a little too high for some of these organizations and he's just sort of pricing himself out because if you're someone like, you know,

I get Bellator, why Bella would have to do it. At some point, you don't want to be the Legends League, Vitor Belfort, Chelsan, and Fat Rampage Jackson type of place anymore. And it seems like they're just signing a lot of prospects. And that's the move that they're making. And I appreciate it and actually like it and enjoy it. But for some of these other leagues, like I don't, I don't know that I believe them or again. I think they priced themselves out. Rising, though, is all we needed. Like, that was the one, that was the one domino that we needed to fall because I am 100% on board for watching Anderson go back to Japan, maybe letting him do a little steroids and just do some weird shit in Japan. Like,

that's great. That is how, that is really the most fitting way that this guy's career could end. Because it's just, he started in Japan. Maybe he didn't start in Japan, but he was in Japan, obviously, before the UFC. He's pride veteran. He's got a name over there. Also, they'll just be more weird with him. They'll be more experimental with him. They'll let him have fun as opposed to throwing him in against Jared Canoneneer and Yariah Hall and watching us just get sad as he gets knocked out against like actual good fighters like i don't want to see innocent silver fight a good fighter i want to see him fight someone where he can beat anderson sobo at least one last time in his life before this guy moves on jenn what do you think are you surprised that all of these promoters are saying cool row but no thanks

i am i'm not you know i'm not surprised i'm disappointed i am disappointed in scott cocker he's really let me down here uh i think there could frankly be a little bit of what shan was talking about the price tag maybe they're thinking is too high and they're maybe trying to lower that down a little bit but let's not I mean straight up let's not pretend that Scott Coker really cares about things like this he Ken Chamrock fought hoist Gracie three years ago um maybe four or something like that I was that 2016 you know that's not that long ago that he ran out I at the time he had to have been in his 50s Ken Chamrock into a fight I mean, and Ken Chermock, who hadn't looked good in well over a decade.

Like, it's, that's just kind of nonsense to pretend like we're, we're really on the up and up here. Anderson Silva has not won, but hasn't looked bad. And frankly, I really wanted him to go to Bellator because, as we've discussed on this show, I'll watch a lot of weird, stupid things. I'm down to watch a dumb legend fight and give me the three match with Chale Sonnen and Belator. sign me up, I'd watch the hell out of it. Give me Anderson versus Fador, watch the hell out of that fight as well. Anderson versus Leota Machita maybe. He already, Belichael already has like the exact right roster of people that Anderson should be fighting.

So them taking a very weird principled stance is really disappointing and I'm not cool with it. The bright side, like Sean pointed out, one, I do think we probably get Anderson versus Roy Jones. I think that's probably going to end up happening. But Risen's in. I do think that is kind of a really good home for him for a lot of the reasons Sean outlined. But for one reason that Sean forgot, and it is arguably the most important reason we should be excited about Anderson, potentially teaming up with Risen. And it's that we all get the fight we've always wanted for years and years, Anderson Silva versus C.B. Dalloway. We can't throw away the opportunity to get.

Anderson versus C.V. Doleway? Come on. So yeah, sign me up. Let's do it. Oh, man. I wish you had video for this episode. The idea of that fight disgusts me on so many levels. The Zorman versus the spider. Come on. Do you understand the profound levels of sadness that would enter my body if C. B. Dalloway knocked out Anderson Silva? Like, that would be the most upset I could possibly get in this sport right now, if I'm being honest. I mean, I don't think he would.

I feel like CVs pretty spent as well, but he might tackle him for 15 minutes. Because in Risen, Anderson could take all the special vitamins and gas station whatever pills he wanted. It would be. See, that's what I'm saying. Let him get on the Vitor diet, man. Like, who cares at this point? What sanctity of what sport are we protecting at this point? Let Anderson do all the steroids Anderson wants to do.

and let him just be that guy one more time. That's all he wants. Just give him the chance. He's earned it. Just let him be that. I want him to do that. I want him versus Fador just juice to the gills. Let's go.

Like, tell me that's not. You would tune in so quick, Mike. I would spend a hundred dollars. So another good thing about the, if he does sign with Risen, is they cross from it with Bellator quite often. And we can have some, we could still have some fun with Bellator. I mean, I guess that's fine. Yeah, I just, I really want to see Anderson

will versus CB Dalloway, but really I want to see Anderson versus Fadol. I want to see Anderson just fight old guys who are also a little shot. Yeah, that's it. He's still got an offer and he has fun. And frankly, I still have fun watching him fight. So, yeah.

Sean, does he fight in 2021? Do we see Anderson Silva, whether in Risen or the Legends Only League, will we see Anderson Silva compete in 2021? I think so. I think the Roy Jones thing at minimum will happen. That does seem like one of anything that he's going to get. If he's going to get one thing, it's probably going to be that. But yeah, I think he's going to fight once, at least once.

And I really just think he wants to go out on a win. And, you know, let him. Why not? Agree, Jed? Oh, yeah. I think he fights multiple times. I don't even think he necessarily wants to go out on a win. I think he just wants to keep fighting because he likes it

and he doesn't really know what else to do with himself. and I'm totally good with it. Let's let him keep fighting. Just don't have them fight like good people anymore because that's stupid. Well, the future of Anderson Silva is right now uncertain, but the future of this matchup is set. It will continue the fifth and final round. Sean Al-Shoddy has tied things up.

We head to the knock-around. This is where the pressure is on, not just Sean and Jed, but on myself too, because I might lose a friend with this one. But for those who are new to the show, knock around. And it's not a co-worker, Mike. That's true. Not to get that. One of us you have to talk to frequently.

That's true. I have to try to get you back on the show as well. But same with Sean. But why are you kidding? That guy can't resist a Mike. He's going to come on the show whether he hates you or not. That's true. Don't go speaking truths right now.

That's true. It's time for that. So we're going to ask one question. 60 seconds each they will have to answer. They have no idea what this question is. I'm not, I say like on a scale one and 10, I'm like at a sixth of this question, but I'm intrigued to hear what you guys have to say. But I will deal with the pressures of announcing a winner this week because Casey's not here.

But not only that, a new champion will be crowned. So one of these guys are just going to be pissed at me. And I'm going to have to deal with that. But, Sean, since you were victorious in the first meeting with Mr. Michoud, you get to choose whether you want to answer this question first or if you want to pass on over to Jed. I'll let my friend over here take it first. Okay. So, Jed, this is a... I just want to be clear.

this is going to be like B-Rabbit at the end of 8-mile. Like, Sean's not even going to want to talk after my answer. I don't even know what the question is, but I'm going to body him that hard. Didn't B-Rabbit go first in that or did he not? Exactly. That's, I'm going first. So you're not on the top. I guess I meant the other.

I didn't even go second. I thought he would, like, responded to the guy. But I also haven't seen that movie in like 10 years. So maybe that. So you're saying Sean is Papa Doc right now? Sean's Papa Doc. And Sean's parents have a real good marriage. That is what I'm embarrassed about.

Oh, man. All right. So unless, I'm going to bring this up one more time because it's one of the greatest moments in the show. Unless you're Alex K. Lee, this is one of those questions where it would be pretty difficult to come up with a wrong answer. But it is it is up to you, gentlemen, to make your argument top notch. So the question is, and I'll monitor the clock. It's not going to flash on the screen like Casey does it. So in this crazy year, Jed, we have seen some breakout fighters emerge, guys like Hamzaa Chimaev, Kevin Holland,

Joaquin Buckley, K.S. Williams, there's been some names who have taken a big leap this year. So as are about to turn the calendar to 2021, in your opinion, who amongst the UFC roster of fighters has the most potential to be the breakout fighter of 2021? So in other words, who are you keeping an eye on most to come from out of nowhere to becoming a household name in 2021? So that's the question.

Your 60 seconds starts now. Man, that's a really good question. Oh, good. Sorry. There is just a problem of firing off in the background right now. That's convenient. That's convenient. Yeah, didn't plan that. It's really tough to say. In general, I think the reflective answer here is Hamzaa Chamaev, but I think he's going to be this year's breakout fighter. I am going to go with Bryce Mitchell, because Bryce Mitchell has had really a great year. a great couple of years. But I think next year he has a real opportunity to make the leap from fun, exciting fighter lowly ranked to literal title contender right in the thick of things and maybe even an actual household name because he does have some amount of star power to go with him, the Camo Shorts thing. People seem to dig his vibe. He's certainly an interesting cat, and I think he's got all the talent in the world right now. So give me Bryce Mitchell.

All right. I was actually going to give you a few more seconds too because of the car alarm, but it is what it is. I didn't want Sean to have any kind of, you know, excuse when he loses that I got extra time or anything like that. Fair enough. All right, Sean. Same question. Who do you think could be a maybe the breakout star in 2021? Who has that it factor that a lot of folks just may not be seeing right now, but we could see it next year. 60 seconds for you starts now. I have to ask right. the top. Was there a prediction there that Kazmat or Camzat will beat Leon Edwards? That's what it felt like from Jed over here. I just need him to answer. No, but I think he's the breakout fighter even with the lost Leon Edwards this year. I think just where he's been, he's that. Gotcha. I was

going to say that's bold, man. Just throw on that, just drive by predicting that. Let's see. So this is a tough one. I think for me, I keep coming back to one guy who we really haven't seen a lot of in 2020. We only saw him once, but he left such a big impression. And I think, I think for a lot of people who was the first time they really saw him. Like, the idiots like us who watch Risen and stay up until 2 a.m. to watch this stuff, we already knew about Jerry Prashka. But I think the wider MMA world just found out about Jerry Prashka back in, what is at this point, July, when he just bulldozed over Volcano-Ozdemir, like it was nothing.

And he was just out there doing whatever he wanted, being a wild man, really crazy striking. That guy is so entertaining. He is such a joy to watch. And I think now, he uses his next fight book, right? Donag Reyes. Dude, he beats Dominic Reyes. All of a sudden, people are going to have their eyes wide open for Jerry Prasca. And I think he's someone who, that's a very, like, there's a very clear path of victory

there against Dominic Reyes. I think by the end of next year, so many people are in love with Jerry Prasca, especially in a wide open, like, heavyweight division. Man, that's a really good answer right there, Sean. That's a really good answer. fact it's so good of an answer that you're getting the victory. You're getting the victory. Breakout fighter, the fifth ranked light heavyweight in the world.

Who most people in the sport have seen fight once, yeah. Fifth ranked light heavyweight in the world. This is shameful and nonsensical. Come on. By asking me a question. But that's the definition of breakout, though. Like, it doesn't, it's a light heavyweight TV. You're the one, you're the one on the show.

who craps on the light heavyweight division, like it's nothing. Like it's nothing. You can't break out of a bag of trash. Tell him what division. He's going to beat Dominic Grant. He can't do. Like he's not going to beat him.

He's not going to beat him. It's a bag of trash. Your answer, Mike. Your answer is a bag of trash just like light heavyweight division. I've been robbed. I've been hard done by. This is nonsense.

And it won't stand. Here's how I know I beat you. I can see your screen. And when I said Jerry Prashka, you did like a, hmm. Yeah, that's a good answer. That is why I beat. That's a serviceable answer. What's the peasant answer?

Anyone can come up with Jerry Prashka. Bryce Mitchell, that's an outside. I think he's ranked right now. You're talking to the champ. You're not the champ. You're the champ of nothing and no one. You're babysitting that belt. I will allow you to.

babysit my title while I wait for Casey to come back and render true and honest verdict. Against you. 2 and O against the supposed winningness player of all time on this show. I'm pretty sure that makes me the winningest player of all time on the show. Also, you can come get this belt whenever you want, baby boy. It's fine. It's my belt. Of course I can come get it.

I am the winning. Way back to it. You're going to play. You don't play between the links. It's like boxing an MMA. You gotta earn your way back, my friend. You need a win maybe like three, four, string together, some good run, and maybe then I'll give you a third shot.

But right now I don't really feel compelled to give you a third shot because you win multiple times, then I'm never going to face you again because you're going to catch the work from whoever's up next. Jose Young's. I mean, that doesn't speak highly of you then, my friend. I'm two and oh against you. Yeah, robberies, theft, outright theft. This one doesn't even count.

Casey wasn't here to dictate. This is a nonsense. Right now you are doing a press conference outside of total landscaping or whatever that place was. That's what you are right now. This is Tom Foolery and it will not stand. I intend to appeal this to the highest powers and get my title. Well, all right.

Before we say goodbye and I apologize, Jed. But Sean, that was a great answer. I actually didn't even expect that answer. But you now have 30 seconds to say whatever it is you want to say. Good, bad, and different, MMA. You want to gloat a little bit more? The floor is yours. I would never gloat.

I don't need to gloat. We all know where I stand against this man. I'll just turn it positive. I know it was a very, very rough holidays for a lot of people. It's been a rough year for a lot of people. And that is maybe the biggest understatement in the world. I know I wasn't able to spend this holidays with my family. I'm sure a lot of other people weren't as well.

It was very difficult. It wasn't the most fun experience. but you know what, man, there's still so much to be thankful for. We are all still here. We're all still healthy. And the world is, this is going to be over soon, I would imagine. So just good wishes and good feelings and good vibes out there to everyone out there who had a difficult holiday season. We're all in this together.

And hopefully there's a light at the end of the tunnel soon. There you go. Any final words, Jed, before you say goodbye? This is nonsense. I would have preferred out of last weekend to Jose's, you know, heartfelt answer that at least made me feel bad when I won. Not losing to this joker over here. I bodied him in three rounds anyway.

The tears are just so delicious. You make for the best sore loser, dude. You really do. I really appreciate how much of a sore loser you are. And I look forward to further DMs begging and pleading for a third shot. You're about to get blown up with just constant reminders of how paper that belt you now hold is. Well, we appreciate you guys listening to such an epic matchup.

Hopefully we'll do it again down the road, but we're going to say goodbye. For Jed Mishu, for Shotal, Shottie, hopefully Casey will be back next week, so I don't have to make a decision like this ever again. We'll see you back here next week once again, between the links. Good night, everybody.

I love you, God. The champ. I don't love him. This has been Between the Links, with your host. Mike Heck Brought to you by MMA Fighting

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