MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 31 | Jan Blachowicz vs. Israel Adesanya, Michael Chandler vs. Dan Hooker, More

Episode Date: January 5, 2021

Check out episode 31 of Between the Links—the first show of 2021—as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting’s Alexander K. Lee and mixed martial arts journalist James Lynch as they react to the announcement of the upcoming light heavyweight title matchup between Jan Blachowicz and 185 pound champion Israel Adesanya at UFC 259, discuss whether it was the right fight to make and what outcome would be best for business in the long term. They also talk where that leaves Glover Teixeira and Robert Whittaker. In addition, the panel give their takes on Michael Chandler’s highly anticipated octagon debut being set at UFC 257 against Dan Hooker, where the UFC may go with Charles Oliveira and Justin Gaethje, along with predictions for under the radar storyline in the new year, as well as their respective picks for the fighter to watch in 2021. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow James Lynch: @LynchOnSports Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links, with your host, Mike Heck. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a new year and a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MMAfighting.com. Hope 2021 has treated all of you well so far as we're back with our first show of the new year. A lot to discuss and ponder coming out of a crazy 2020. and looking ahead at the year to come. And there will hopefully be some positive changes in 2021.

In fact, there's going to be some changes to this program and another program on the site later on in 2021. More on that later in the program. But first, let us bring on our first matchup of the new calendar and an all-Canadian battle at that on the program. Our champion Jed Mishu said, you know what, I'm the champ. Bring me a contender.

And that's what we'll hope to provide this week based off of this matchup. So let's introduce the combatants first. Let us say hello to our buddy, our pal, the Prince of Positivity, the co-host of On to the Next one from MMAFighting.com, Mr. Alex K. Lee. How are you, my friend, with your Raptors T-shirt, basking in the greatness? Oh, yes, basking in their current one and four greatness. Yeah, I'm loving it. I am doing great.

I'm very excited. I won't want to spoil the intro for, I guess, but I'm very excited. You know, it's 2021, guys. It's a new year. All of my losses in 2020. Off the record, just like the PFL guys, it's a new season. All right, I'm cleared. And I'm ready to make a playoff run and get that $7 prize.

So we get a $7 prize, right, Mike? I don't know. Maybe we get some sponsors this year. We'll see. We'll see. Maybe we'll get some $7 prizes, AK. But happy to have you here. And back on the panel, very close friend of mine in this industry.

He had a couple of appearances in 2020, a freelancer and does worked for, I don't know, 112 different websites and platforms now. He is the great. James Lynch, welcome back, my friend, and happy New Year, sir. Happy New Year, gentlemen. Thanks so much for having me on. I always love doing this show. And yeah, we'd be here all day if we listed all the outlets I work for. But happy to be here. Happy to talk to my old buddy, AK, here and two Canadians getting it going on 2021. James Lynch, one of my mentors, one of my mentors in this business and always coming back to BTL to school me again. Just when I think the lessons are over and I can I can move on. Another schooling is on the way. Sure. That's what I'm here for.

So polite right off the bad. Jedmishu is clearly not here on the program this week. But let's kick things off with some big news we got during this hiatus from UFC action. We found out that Jan Buhovic's first defense of his light heavyweight title set from March 6th, a UFC 259. And he will face the middleweight champion of the world, Israel, Adasania. Now, Dana White had been teasing this one for some time now. But James, we're going to begin with you. This one has been a topical discussion for a couple of months now. But now that it's official, is this the right call?

Was this the fight to make? This was not the fight to make, Mike. I am excited by the matchup, and I think it's very intriguing to see how Israel Adasania will do moving up a weight class to take on the current late heavyweight champion. But guys, we're tying up two divisions with this matchup, and this idea that there's no contenders is just not accurate. You've got Glover to Shera.

Wouldn't that have been the greatest story of last year, Glover Tashire at his age, coming back and getting another title shot? He's absolutely earned it, getting the win over Tiago Santos last year, finishing Tiago Santos. Him fighting for a title would have been great. But that's on pause right now because of this fight. On top of that, you've got Robert Whitaker, who's waiting in the wings, the former middleweight champion.

Last time I checked, Robert Whitaker's had, what, one loss in the last couple of years, and it happened to beat Israel at Asana. He's got two wins since then, getting the win over Darren Till and getting the win over Jared Cannoneer. He, too, is now waiting on the sidelines because of this fight. This isn't even the fight everyone wanted. The fight everyone wanted was John Jones and Israel Adesania. John's saying he's not even going back to 205 now.

To me, this is not needed. Yes, it's cool. The intrigue of is he becoming a potential two division champion, but it's not needed right now when you have two contenders already waiting in the wings right now, especially Whitaker who said, look, guys, give me another month or two. I got another baby coming on the way. Give me a month or two. We can do the Israel Adasania rematch.

To me, this is not needed. And to me, it just shows the UFC's lack of thinking long term because you have some options already in those respective weight classes. A.K., what say you? Was this the fight to make? I know you're a fan of the blockbusters, and, you know, let's get the money now. But, you know, what say you? Is this, was this the right call? You got to strike while the iron is hot.

You got to strike while iron is. I, look, I love Gover de Chirah. I love Robert Chirah. Both those guys have done everything they've had to do to earn another shot. Okay, these were not, you know what I mean? This is, to share his another shot at the light of him would tell it years, years in the making. Whitaker, I know he lost a fit in the fashion But I think you win two fights

You look pretty much as good as you were outside of the I disson your fight Then you know what you've earned yourself rematch And look I think that fight will happen again at some point It does it is a bit harder now because this matchup But speaking to Blakowicz and Izzy People wanted it you know And as soon as that horse

As soon as the suggestion was out there and the horse is out of the gate You got to go for it It's like what you're saying the money is there right there You know Could you again could you try build to it more in the future, sure. But we've seen in this business, there's so much stuff that can go wrong with injuries, guys, you know, guys losing and that having to sort of regain their luster before you can build

them up for a superfight again. So if you can match up two stars, well, star of the magnitude of Eziadiznia and something like Jan Blahovic, who I feel is, again, kind of underrated as far as, you know, his likability. I mean, I know he's not a mainstream draw necessarily, but he could be if you build him upright. Maybe this is the matchup that does it. Again, I totally understand what James is saying there are more deserving.

contenders, there's no question. But again, the word deserves deserving in combat sports is almost meaningless. So I'm totally fine with it. And on paper, if you're asking me, would I rather see, just from an aesthetic standpoint, would I rather see Jan and Izzy fight over Izzy and Robert II or Jan and, well, I guess John Jones is going to happen. But I'm sorry, Jan and Clover. I like the Yon Izzy matchup. If I had to choose, if I had to choose only seeing one, I'm going Yon Izzy. So based on that, that is my thinking, pretty much. ignoring the contenders rankings. So both of you gentlemen mentioned the two sort of wild cards in this factor.

One, Robert Whitaker, the other Glover-Teshirea. Both guys have, as you both have stated, unequivocally earned the right to fight for championships in their respective divisions. But, okay, let me go back to you and let me ask you this. If you are Whitaker and Tashara right now, what do you do? Do you try and stay active? Do you wait and see how this all plays out before you make your next move in a sport where things can change so frequently?

Like, what do you do? If you're Whitaker, you call out to Chera. You call him out and say, you know what? We're not, you know what? I just thought of this right now. You know what? We're not busy. Let's fight either. I'll come up to a 205 and fight you. We'll fight at a catch weight. And then whoever wins, whatever, you know, it'll keep us busy.

Theoretically, shouldn't knock. Whoever loses shouldn't necessarily lose their, you know, lose their spot in the rank. Because we see if it's just a fun fight. Obviously, I don't see that happening. Whitaker has never expressed any interest at going up to O'O5. as a former welterweight for goodness sake. Gloverd-Deshire, of course, would be very confused if a while where to Kurt

fight came around. Gosh, it's so hard to say wait. In both cases, if I'm being serious, they both take another fight. Is that what they should do? I don't think so. Is that what will probably happen? Yeah, because the way these title things get tied up, if they choose to wait for either Izzy or Blohovitz, man, it could be.

They might not fight until summer, maybe after summer. And I just don't see how that's tenable for some of these guys. If they can wait, they should. I don't think they will. I think both of them are going to take a fight. What do you think, James? Do you wait and see or do you just stay active and, you know, stay on the radar here? You wait and see.

I mean, why would Glover take another fight here? He's unbeaten in what, the last five fights or five-fight win streak heading into this one. Like, who's even going to fight at this point? He could fight, you know, maybe the winner of those Reyes, you know, Reyes and Yuri Porhaska. You could fight the winner of Santos and Rackich, although he just beat Santos. I mean, to me, there's just not a lot of options there for these guys to And for Whitaker, like, what, is he going to fight, Paul Ocosta? People talking about that.

Costa just got destroyed in his last fight. Why should Whitaker, who came up a pretty impressive win over Jared Cannon, you have to fight a guy like Costa? To me, I say you waited out. You never know what happens in that fight. What if there's a quick finish in that one? What if, you know, either guy gets knocked out really quickly, you could do a quick turnaround there.

I don't think, especially for Glover, we're talking about this guy, might never get a title shot again. Why jeopardize that by taking another fight in between there? For Whitaker, I mean, you just had a kid. I think he can wait a little bit longer. He probably wants to spend some more time with his family. he's talked in the past when he was champion about being pressured to take fights and having to be probably more active than he wanted to be. So I think you wait it out. And I just don't see a viable option for either fighter at this point because Glover, I mean, anyone he'd be fighting is to step down.

And for Whitaker, yeah, there's guys that are ranked high, but I just, I don't think there's a fight there that makes a lot of sense, considering who Whitaker's already beaten the division. So I say wait it out. It's worked for certain fighters. I think it could work out for both of these guys. James, let me go back to you because, I mean, obviously big things await the winner of this matchup. No doubt about it, especially. if you're Israel-A-Sahna, two-division champion, your star power continues to rise. Maybe the John Jones fight happens after that. He bumps up to heavyweight. If Plovich wins, he beats a huge name. He gets the big rub.

Who knows? Maybe even the John Jones opportunity comes his way. But at least if Jan wins, things sort of return to normalcy for a little while, and these divisions can continue on. But in the long-term, James, for the business of the ultimate fighting championship, we're all involved. What is the best case scenario in terms of how this plays out? Is it better long term of Israel wins or better long term of Janbovich wins?

I think unfortunately, and this goes against kind of what I was saying, is I think long term Izzy winning does make more sense. You be a two division champion that gets more stock in the eyes of the mainstream fans and whoever, right? I mean, that's an easier sell than, than say, you know, someone else. And also, I think you can kind of see what the UFC's doing with the matchmaking here. At 205, with John Jones leaving, that's a huge void in terms of star power. If you get out of Sonia up there is one of the best personalities, not just the middleweight, but in general in MMA, that certainly adds a nice, you know,

sort of, you know, rocket underneath that division in terms of it being more popular. So I think long term it is better than that. And they'll have to sort it out in terms of whatever because then, look, if Izzy wins the title, he could vacate middleweight. There's a lot of different options you can do. But yeah, I think business-wise is what we're given. So you've got to play with what you're given. And I think it is, Adasania winning would be better because let's be honest here.

How much longer is Jan Blackovich going to be fighting here? He's 37. I mean, three years. I think that's probably the max we'll see him fight. You never know. But I think long term it's better if Izzy's champ. All right. And A.K., what do you think? Is it better long term for business for the UFC if Israel-Azania wins, two-division champ, or is it better long-term of Jan Belhovic wins? Things sort of get back to normal. Yeah, it's hard for me to argue with the Izzy thing because two-division champ, it opens up. Again, it sort of keeps the John Jones fight alive. Again, I think that fight at some point will be beyond wins and losses. But really, you need that luster, you know, to undefeated guys for it to have the most heat. So whether it lowers, whether he, if, you know, if he beats Blahovitz,

whether that lowers Jones back to 205 or is he actually says he'll do what he said he's going to do in the past excuse me and actually go chase Jones up to heavyweight I don't think he would do that but it would it would make it more likely that he'd do that if he beat Blahovina's course I don't think he would try and do that off of a loss

be a very strange move more likely he goes back to a 185 and you know keeps that run going because he's also said he wants to have a legacy at 195 so you know good for Issy he's keeping his cards open but yes a win for him is probably better for everyone from marketing standpoint. But don't count out what beating, you know, is he would mean for Blahovic,

because, again, this guy is so unappreciated, including me by myself. I picked against him in many fights. My predictions are on record in May fighting. I predicted that Blahovic would lose almost every fight except the, I think I got, gosh, oh, Rockhold. I think I knew it would be wrong.

No, I might have gotten that one wrong too. I'm terrible predictions. But I think, I think, again, you know, look, Blahovic might never be, have that mainstream appeal like a John Jones, like Israel Adisina. But I think there's so much value to have any consistent, strong,

well-spoken champion like Jan Blahovic. So the easy thing, definitely much more appeal to him winning for the company, but I hope that they don't, that they don't consider it a bad, and fans don't consider it a bad outcome

should Blahovic beat Isaiah Disney. Because Blahevich is an exciting fighter, too. That's the weird thing is. He's a guy who has exciting fights and for some reason just doesn't get counted when we talk about the most exciting fighters of sport.

His fights are really, really good outside of maybe one or two clunkers, but everyone has those. So I don't think it's like the end of the world if Blahovic kind of halts the, is the Adisina train? And I hope that the UFC would know how to pivot to where, you know, putting a little more marketing muscle behind Blahovic should that happen. AK, we did our 2021 prediction show and on to the next one, and we did a slew of buyer sell questions. And you know what happens when you have one champion versus champion fight? Once one domino falls, everybody wants to have champion versus champion fight.

So buy or sell that this will be the only champion versus champion fight of 2021. No. No. I'm struggling a little bit to think what the other one would be. Part of me, and I don't know if I'll have a chance to mention this later in the show, it depends what the questions are, but part of me thinks, would almost count it if Sohudo came back on someone like in another weight class. Again, I know he's not really the champion.

anymore. He would certainly push it as sort of a champion versus champion thing. Outside of the UFC, there's probably options too. Gosh, I wish on the top of my head I could think of something specific. But no, I don't think it's so early in the year to say that I'm, I admit, I'm playing it a bit safe here. I don't think it's the only champion versus champion fight that we see. What do you think, James? I mean, you are kind of a proponent of normalcy and meritocracy and keeping these divisions flowing the way they are.

But once this thing happens and it does, if it's, does really good numbers and magic happens and Adesania has this magical moment or vice versa. Do you think this creates more? Will this be the only time we see an undisputed champion fight another undisputed champion in 2021? We'll see another champion versus champion fight. Absolutely. I see that happening. And unlike Alex, I'll actually give you some examples. Valentina, I think, could potentially move up and fight Amanda Nunes again. I think because who's Nunes going to fight if she beats Megan Anderson at, you know, a Bantamate right now? It's kind of slim pickings. You know, conversely for Valentina, if she beats Jess Gondraj, what is next?

for her at flyweight. So I could see that happening. Conversely, what if Waley-Jang? I mean, they're having a hard time booking her for her next fight. What if she decides to move up and fight Valentina? I think the women's divisions is something to keep an eye on in terms of champ versus champ fights just due to lack of options. So those are some. But outside of that, I don't think you'll see, you know, maybe as he moves up, but to heavy weight, I don't know.

But there's a lot of things that play here. But I, you know, just the way things are going, just the way the UFC seems to think outside the box in terms of some of the matchmaking and the pressure on, you know, them putting on good cards for ESPN. I could absolutely see this happening again. Big fight for the UFC on March 6 for the 205-pound title. Looking forward to talking about it more and more as the weeks go by. But the point for this opening round goes to James Lynch.

He is on the board. As we move ahead to another big fight announcement that just became official. UFC 257, January 23rd, first pay-per-view of the new year. Michael Chandler will make his highly anticipated octagon debut against Dan Hooker. Now, as I reported on the A side a couple of weeks ago, when initial reports first came out about this fight, it was not done. It was not even close to being done. In fact, Dana White even told the Schmo that the original plan was to book Chandler versus Charles Oliva for this card. But Olavera, per what Dana White told the Schmo, wasn't going to be able to make the wait since he just fought Tony Ferguson at UFC 256.

So the fight is done, AK, and I feel like this is a trend with these first two questions. but now we get Chandler versus Hooker at UFC 257. Was this the right fight to make? Yeah, it's a great fight. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I know there were other options. I know there's other stuff on paper that look great. But, man, how could anyone object to Michael Chandler versus Dan Hooker? Dan Hooker may be the most exciting fighter of 2020.

I know on our own MMA fighting end of the year list, I believe he had one entry in the top five and then I think another entry in the top, whatever our top 10, whatever that may be. So I think he's the only one that had that. And this isn't new for Dan Hooker. Anyone who's followed his career, the guy is instant excitement. He's also one of those guys who's like, you know, he's in the top 10, always kind of looking, trying to find a way to crack the top five.

So this fight matters a lot in that sense, too. But I mean, just as far as, is this an exciting fight for the fans and for any of us, you know, in the media, anyone watching? It's an amazing fight. It's so, so, so good. Hooker deserves a big name. Chandler deserves to fight a top 10 guys. So, I mean, in a way, both fighters are getting, are getting what they want.

I mean, is it a little bit of a drop off for Chandler considering, you know, he was in talks to act as a replacement for the Habibh Gagchi fight? I guess, in that sense, if you want to look at it through that lens. Is it a little bit of drop off from Charles Olivera? Yeah, maybe given how hot Oliver is. But really, you can't do, you can't do much better than Dan Hooker, who is, again, been Tom 10 ranked for a while. So the other thing to look at is, you know, Hooker, I think is, Hooker's coming off that loss, DePoree, so it's fine. But so he's got a little bit to proof. Chandler's coming off a couple of wins, but there's that stink of that pit bull loss.

I feel like it's still lingering. I think a lot of people still think that that was his last fight. He's on a two-fight win street. It's still there. So you beat a guy like Hooker. It's just instant credibility. And, of course, the other good reason for booking this fight for UFC 257 specifically is maybe if Habino-Magammedaub is completely out of the picture, then we get our next lightweight title fight from the winners of this fight and of course the Porier

of Grigger rematch. So kudos U of C matchmakers. I'm all in on this one. James, A.K. very pro this fight. Are you in the same boat? Was this the right fight to make? It's a great fight. It's a fun fight, but it was this the right fight. With everything we know now, yes, this was the right fight to make. But I want to back up a little bit and something that we didn't talk about here. And that was Michael Chandler had the opportunity to fight Tony Ferguson. And if you look at the way Ferguson lost that last fight, you do wonder, if there was a missed opportunity there for Chandler, because had he taken an unshort notice and let's say he lost,

he'd have that excuse in his back pocket that he had to cut away for the title fight, and he could have come in here because I'll be honest, I mean, this is a great fight on paper. I'm looking forward to it. No regrets in terms of, you know, not, you know, this fight being put together. I think it's amazing, but this is a tough fight for Michael Chandler, and he's fighting a guy who's much bigger than him. Dan Hooker stands at six feet tall with the 75.5-inch reach.

Chandler's only 5-8 with a 69-inch reach. So it's going to be a tough fight for his outing, whereas, like I said, if he fought Ferguson, and he'd have the built-in excuse already that was short notice. He could have taken it. And also, I can't remember the last time the UFC signed someone, like a marquee signing like this, where it was so delayed to see his debut.

I mean, Chandler signed what? In the fall, and here we are talking about a fight here in January. So I think all things considered this is the best fight they could put together. You've got to give Chandler, I mean, with how highly they thought of him, you have to give him a top five, I think is ranked number six. So, you know, I think it's just a good test for Chandler to see where he's at. And, you know, I'll go back even further before the pit bull lost. Remember when he lost to Will Brooks a couple years ago,

That was kind of one of those fights where you remember Chandler kind of put the sign up like, hey, I'm done. He got hit too hard. I mean, there have been some setbacks in Chandler's career. So I think it's a bit of redemption for him as well to show that he is one of the top lightweights. It's not just a case of where, you know, he's coming over from Bellator and he's not as talented. I'm curious to see how he performs under the bright lights, especially on this card where

let's say something happens with, you know, knock on wood, nothing happens between the main event. But you have a backup there in case something happens. So, yeah, great match, making great fight. And I think a good test for both guys, especially with Hooker, because what's the theme with Hooker in his career at Lightweight. It's when he gets that step up, he tends to falter. He lost the Barbosa, lost to Dustin Porre, albeit close fights, will the Porre fight much closer? I think it's a good test for both guys.

First of all, let me just preface this next question by saying that I love this fight. I'm with both of you. It's a great fight. And I think it actually fit into what I was thinking when Chandler signed with the UFC. Like Hooker was a guy on my list. Paul Felder was at the top of my list. But that was the kind of caliber of opponent that I was looking for. But then he got this promotional push, James, making him the backup fighter. And I thought, you know, maybe they do Gaichi. Maybe they do Olivera. But it seemed to this point, this was a sort of, we have to get Chandler on this card,

no matter what type of scenario hookers in. So that's what it shall be. Did the UFC have to put Chandler on this card, especially with Connor fighting Dustin? Like, I understand that it's COVID and all this stuff. And if you lose Connor, you're screwed anyways. But could they have waited a month, maybe two to have this debut? Maybe get him, Gaichi.

maybe get him Oliver, or was this sort of a ticking clock? We have to get Chandler on this card with Connor. I think the longer it goes without him fighting, the more of that signing sort of loses its luster. You know, here's something, I talked to Ben Askeran a few weeks ago, and he made the point that when he was signed, they booked his fight right away,

and people were interested in sort of the hype of him coming on board. With Chandler, I think the longer you delay this, the more that signing doesn't mean as much. Yes, he was the backup, and yes, the UFC holds him in high regard. But he's got a fight. I think, you know, to a lot of fans, I mean, we've seen them everywhere. Bellator is the B-leagues and, you know, UFC's the top-notch. Like, let's prove it.

We need to see that right now immediately. And I think Chandler is a good opportunity to sort of silence those naysayers if he goes out there and gets a win. But the biggest thing is him being active because you can't sign someone and have all this hype and talk about it and then not follow through on it. I think the longer you go with that, the more that signing doesn't mean as much. What do you think, AK? And also, let me add this.

The betting odds have come out. Dan Hooker's a minus 170 favorite in this fight. Are you surprised by these odds? and, you know, what do you think of the UFC just throwing, putting him on this card? Like, did they have to do that or could they have waited? Not surprised by the odds at all. Again, coming over from Bell Tor, there's going to be a lot of skepticism. I do think, I do think Dan Hooker has faced the stronger competition

and not stick anything away from some of the guys that Chandler has fought. But one of the wins, one of Chandler's recent wins is like Sydney Outlaw. Sydney Outlaw is a tough guy. Sydney Outlaw is not someone I would consider a guy who would be top 20, top 30 in the UFC, if I'm being perfectly honest. And meanwhile, Dan Hooker's been fighting guys in the top 20 in the UFC for, you know, for years now. So the odds don't bother me at all.

Minus 170, I think that's just about right. I think going any higher, I think going like two to one if it reaches that level, which it might. I would love to see how much action starts coming in on Hooker based on those initial odds. I think that might be a bit much. But as James said, though,

he is a bigger fighter and he's just so damn skilled. And we know he can battle the best of the best. Chandler's facing really good competition, just not quite as consistently as Dan Hooker. Oh, excuse me, as Dan Hooker. has. And Mike, I do love it on this card for the reasons I said before. I think you set yourself up for, again, a number one contender situation. Because I know there's still some last minute

hope that maybe the Porre and McGregor rematch will be for an interim title or if they strip Habib during fight. I don't know. You know, you never know if you have CofC. They can make these decisions very quickly. Dana White is supposedly meeting with Khabib. Maybe he meets up and then right after says, yep, we're stripping this guy. That's it. Poria McGregor. Let's make up some new posters. We got about a week to go. Can we fire out some new posters online? But even if that's not the case, even if that's one number one contender, and then the other number one contender comes from Dan Hooker and Michael Chandler, then I think that's perfect booking. I love when things work like that, for promotions, when you have almost like a little mini tournament without having to call it that.

Because, again, you don't promise anything to anyone. Guys can injure, guys can take other fights. But I think you do a kind of a light push during fight week, and you kind of suggest, hey, Two of these four guys from these really, really great lightweight fights will be fighting for the title sometime in the first half of the year. So I think it works out perfect for them. I'm really glad actually that they put on this card. A.K., let me ask you this. I understand where you're coming from with the number one contender option. Let's be honest, it's kind of hard to give Dan Hooker that rub coming off the loss of Dustin Porey.

I mean, maybe you can if he does something spectacular, but there's some important names that are not being discussed right now. Like, where does this leave Justin Gachie? Like he did say he wants the winner in McGregorporier, which makes a lot of sense. Where does this leave Charles Oliver now? Like, does the UFC match those guys up? Or is still Olivera the odd man out of this equation? I feel like we've been talking about this for so long now. Olivera, even beating Tony Ferguson still might be the odd man out.

Is he still the odd man out? Like, where do these two guys go? G. Look, no one's going to complain if you got a title shot. Another tell shot coming off a loss. He's one of the baddest mother efforts out there. He's going to give anyone a tough fight. And with the right matchup, really, he could become champion.

He could become undisputed champion. But I don't see anything wrong with Gachy having to pick up a win before getting another shot at the title. I'm not saying he has to, but I think it looks good. If he stays busy and gets another win, gets another exciting fight, gets himself another bonus. I just don't see how there's a problem with that. Olivera, on the other hand, is legitimately gang-scridden. Olavera has more of a case for getting a tell-shot than Chandler or Hooker, for sure, undisputed. Really, he has more of a case for a tell-shot probably than, definitely than,

Regger and maybe even Porreier. So he is sadly the odd man left out of here. It kind of goes to what our question we asked about, about Whitaker and Glover de Chira. If the UFC does decide to go this way and make this kind of final four out of the UFC 257 matchups, should Olivera wait? 100% if Olivera can wait. Yes, wait until there's a new champion and then he should be the number one challenger.

Will the UFC allow him to do that? Will he want to do that? Gosh, I don't know. I don't know. But I think it's a smart thing to do. If he can stand maybe fighting only once this year, but it's for a UFC title, then Charles Ilyvera, that is what you should do.

But yeah, he is definitely the guy getting the shortest end of the stick here. Do you agree, James? Or, you know, we talked about missed opportunities, and I know your health comes first. And if you just cut all that weight to get to 155 and you did it, you got a big win, that's great. You don't want to hurt yourself. But where does Oliver go now?

Like, if he was the initial guy to welcome Chandler to the UFC, and he said, no, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to wait it out, wait for another opportunity later in the year. Did he miss the boat here? Or where does he go? Where does Gagee go? I don't think it matters in this case. I know I talked about Chandler missing an opportunity with Ferguson.

But I think with Olivera, guys, do you really see, let's say Connor McGregor beats Porier and let's say it was for the title. Do you see them putting Olavera against Connor McGregor? I don't. I think that's a nightmare matchup for Connor, to be honest. I think Olaver is one of the biggest threats in that division. But the problem is, guys, he's not very marketable. He doesn't speak a lot of English. He's not a guy that's really doing a lot of self-promotion.

and I see that being sort of a nightmare scenario for the UFC because they can't market a guy like that, right? So I think had he took the Chandler fight, I think it would be probably even more devastating for him when he finds out he's not going to get to fight for the title, especially if Connor wins. You guys know right now if the beep's not coming back, the UFC's going to do everything in their power

to make Connor McGregor champion again, whether, and I'm not saying they're going to give him easy fights or anything, but you know that's what they want. And I think you give Olivera any of those guys in the top five. I think he has a very good chance there. And we saw that in the last fight with Ferguson, absolute dominant performance. So I don't think it matters in this case,

because I think even if he had taken the fight, I think he'd still be the odd man out because I don't think the UFC's in a rush to give him a title shot. Does he deserve it? Absolutely. I've been on the Charles Olivera bandwagon for a while, and what he did to Kevin Lee earlier,

early last year, defeating him at his own game, out striking him was super impressive. You think this is a ground guy, but he's evolved as striking so much too. So I don't think it matters in this case. And I think if you want to look at, I know, I know we're going to get to storylines later,

but I think one of them you're going to see this year is Olivera getting screwed over a lot this year because I just don't see the UFC's in a rush to put him in a good scenario to win a title. A lot of questions at 155. Some of them will be answered on January 2030, UFC 257, but we'll head to our next question of this matchup in the point for round two.

Oh, you have some more again. I may cost myself a point here, but I just want to say that James' answer made me so sad because that Charles O'Varell is not considered marketable because, I mean, in Cage, amazing. You know, for anyone who sees his fights, for sure, would love them. But the fact that, oh, gosh, and I'm not saying James is wrong.

I'm saying that in this industry, we consider that kind of thing. We consider a guy like him not marketable, a guy who spent his, he's using his social media in the last month or the holiday season to tweet about all these charitable, these great charitable things he's been doing.

Maybe it's PR for him, fine, whatever. But he's trying to spread a positive message. You know, he's spreading this about helping people and using his research to help people. Meanwhile, we have guys like McGregor who were tweeting about their achievements from 11 months ago saying like, oh, by the way, I was the number one.

And it's horrible because that, of course, that's going to get 100 times the amount of attention and traffic that Charles Olavera's charitable efforts are getting. So Dustin Porre also does a lot of charity. So I'm not disagreeing with James. It just has answered made me super sad that we live in this world where just because he, yes, he doesn't speak English, doesn't speak a lot of English.

And because he doesn't use his social media to talk a lot of trash. He's not marketable. We got to fix this. Maybe it's us in the media. It's our part. We're part of it too. I totally understand. We're part of it too.

We got to work together. We got to finish this. And Kate. Yeah. I did. I deserve, yeah. No, I did it. I did it. Yeah. I don't know. You pulled at my philanthropic heartstrings, AK, with that one. You really did. You did a good job. You know your audience. But unfortunately, the point for on two is going to go to James Lynch, a commanding two-oh lead here. But this is where

AK thrives. He's the comeback kid. This is a new year, AK. We've turned the calendar. The loss from 2020, there are no more. All the losses in the past are going. on, now we have a chance to come back and make some history here. But since it is a new year, and we sort of prefaces in the last question, leads to everyone making their predictions for how the year is going to play out. AK and I did a big prediction show and on to the next one. You can listen to that wherever you find your favorite podcast. But there's obviously some huge storylines that a lot of people are talking about.

AK discussed a lot of them also in a feature hero for the website. So head to M.AFighting.com and look for those. But you know how we like to do on these programs. You like to dig a little deeper. So James, let me begin with you. we know Habib's future, John Jones to heavyweight, amongst others, massive storylines for 2021. But what is your under the radar storyline for 2021?

Something that's on your mind that just not a lot of people are talking about. I think one of the things we're going to see this year in terms of an underrated storyline is the decline of one of the most popular fighters in the sport and had one of the best fights of all time a couple years ago. And that is Rory McDonald. You know, a lot of people are already marking Rory MacDonald as the winner of the PFL tournament. I don't think that's the case. I think the Rory McDonald we've seen recently in the last two fights is a shell of

him's former self. And I think one of the things we're not going to get to see this year is Rory McDonald thrive in PFL. I don't see him winning the tournament. I think Rory McDonald is nowhere near what he used to be. And I think he's sort of checked out a little bit. You remember that fight last year against John Fitch? It might have been the Niemie Gracey fight actually, but him talking about how he

didn't want to hurt his opponents. I think that's one thing. Like, if you just think of where Rory McDonald was, having that fight of the year against Robbie Loller and nearly winning a title to where he is now in PFL. And, you know, I think it's a great opportunity for him. Hey, listen, I'm a dad. I'd love to go fight for a million dollars, right? And I think there's a good opportunity for him.

But I don't think, I think this is the year we're really going to see Roy just decline and not be what he used to be. And it's kind of sad because Roy's not that old, but he's one of those guys who in fight years is very old. He's been fighting since he's 16 and as a fellow Canadian. It kind of breaks my heart to see where Rory's at at this point because I think, you know, most people watching felt like he was going to be a champion at some point. And, you know, for Belator to not even want to bring him back, I think speaks volumes to where he's at in his career.

So I think that's going to be one of the most underrated storylines this year is the decline of Rory McDonald and I don't see him thriving very well in PFL. A, Kay, what do you think? Like, what is a big thing that's not getting the proverbial rub with all these big names at the forefront? Aside from hashtag Marlon on Marlin? Mike, why are more people, this isn't something we made up on onto the next one. They're talking to you. Marlon Vera and Marlon and Marlon, but I, there was a little of a Twitter.

10.10. And I checked, I checked hashtag Marlin and Marlin. I think it's still just me. I think I'm the only one using that hashtag. Why is this not a thing? So I'm hoping that that's not an under the radar storyline. I'm hoping that that ramps up and that we get that fight. What are we not talking about this? But aside from my own, putting my personal interests aside a little bit, this story, I feel like it shouldn't, I don't even know if it counts under the right are. But I think in the wake of what it's related to, it is sort of under underreported, though I guess there isn't much to report. I'm surprised that people aren't talking a little bit more about the possibility of Stipei Miochich retiring, unless there is a big discussion that I've been

missing. I think obviously, if we're talking heavyweight, it's all about John Jones. You know, when is John Jones going to make his debut? When is Steebe going to fight Francis? When can we get John Jones into a title shot, you know, whether it's against Stipe or Francis as soon as possible? Steppe is, again, arguably the greatest heavyweight in MMA history. I'm not sure he's in the top of my list, but any list that includes him at number one, perfectly valid based on his in cage accomplishments, his number of title defenses, the names that he's beaten. He's beaten everybody in his era.

He's beating everybody he could possibly beat. And I think part of it is, yes, he's got this kind of understated personality where he's not going to make a big deal out of retirement. I almost see it as like he'd be one of those Tim Duncan guys where he might not be the kind of guy to do the in cage leave the glove. I could see him not doing the leave the gloves in the cage thing. I could see him doing the he fights. They ask him the question.

It's the last time you've seen you. He says, I'm going to talk to my family. And like five weeks later, after everyone stopped talking about it, maybe he says something on Instagram or Twitter like, yep, I'm done or appears in some show. But I could see him wanting to avoid the pomp and circumstance of retirement. And again, that's probably one of the reasons why no one's talking. People just don't expect it. But he's getting up there.

He's obviously up there in age. He's done everything he's wanted to accomplish. he's we're getting down to rematches now he's going to have to he's probably going to have to fight in ganu again which is not something i would want to do once much less twice uh he did of course he did great in the first fight but i mean who wants to go and risk another five rounds from ganu right uh the john jones fight is something he'd want to go out on for sure i imagine if you win he'd retire but it's weird but i do consider it under the radar just because you know maybe he's just he's underappreciated in general but i do but i do think when he's gone i think people are going to miss kind of what stepe

brought to the table um both this kind of you know quirky personality uh And also his performances. So, yeah, I hope people realize very realistically, whether he fights John Jones or not, whether he beats Ngano or not, this could be the last time we see Stephen Milchish fight this year. One of my under the radar not really talked about it. I mean, it's a huge deal. And I feel like it's getting talked about more now that it was made official as we record. But UFC is going to be on network television on January 16th. Cater versus Holloway is going to be on ABC.

This is just massive news, AK. How do you react to this? I mean, this is huge news, getting on. on network television. Like it's going to reach so many different households. Those who have ESPN Plus can still watch it,

but ABC, it's going to reach a lot of different eyeballs. Is it not? ABC now stands for a Blessed Channel based on Max Holloway now getting, and not coming.

Yes, you can use that. Hashtag a blessed channel. I'm going to get this going. First of all, if I hear the words, New England Cartel on ABC, my gosh, I am going to rip

what's left of my hair out here. And I know it will. In fact, Mike, it'll probably be a soundbite from you. I can imagine airing on ABC. because you keep pushing doing the cartel. Yeah, no, I mean, it's weird. UFC has expanded so much broadcast-wise over the last, you know, five years.

I think that's one reason why we would consider underreport is because I'm impressed, of course, but again, you know, part of the ESPN, it's all under the Disney umbrella. It's funny, I guess we all should have thought that something like this was going to happen eventually. But yeah, I don't know if I would have predicted it happening so soon. I thought they were still trying to sort of establish themselves ESPN, ESPN Plus, I'll say other ESPN affiliates, but why not? Why not make that move to, you know, one more move towards the quote unquote mainstream that we all people, fans love, talk about.

MMA is finally mainstream. And this is a great fight for it because, you know, it's going to be an exciting fight. It's you've got an established champion, a veteran guy, former champion, I would say, in Holloway, who's seen it all. He's the perfect guy to do media. Calvin Cater, very funny guy. I think we've all spoken to him. He's a great, great, great interview.

He's going to be a great face, I think, to have in the first. first the first I mean event on ABC so yeah it's I don't know how much this I think Mike the other thing is I don't know how much this matters to hardcore fan I think most hardcore fans was kind of like oh whatever is or do I still tune in where I tune in what does just let me know how to watch it I don't care what this means for the UFC but it is it's going from Fox which is you know has some aggressive programming let's put that way it wasn't it wasn't off brand for them ESPN is a sports channel of course. So ESPN, it's natural to have any sport on there.

But now, yeah, to break onto ABC, it sounds as strange as strike force on CBS. You know what I mean? It's kind of of of that vibe and maybe as meaningful. What do you think of this, James? I mean, of course, UFC's been on network television before with Fox. But, I mean, ABC, I mean, when I think ABC wide world of sports, many, many of great boxing championship fights have been on ABC. I mean, this is pretty good stuff. It is.

I do wonder how it's going to translate because when, I think of ABC, I think of it as more like a family channel. And like there's still people out there now that are like UFC and MMA brutal. It's too barbaric. And like I do wonder how those naysayers will feel about it being on that network. But I wish it the best. I mean, I'm one of those people. I'd love to see MMA grow as much as it can and get to a different audience.

So I think that's really solid. And I agree this should be a bigger deal. I'll throw one more out at you because we haven't discussed this as another sort of under the radar storyline. How about the apparel deal with Venom? I mean, this is something that's coming up in April. This should be a really big deal. Remember when Reebok came in and it's like, wow, we're going to be. you know, professional and all this, but I'll be honest. When they said Venom, I was kind of like,

like, you know, this is a step down. I mean, Reebok's a bigger brand. Benham's sort of been an MMA brand for a while. I'm looking forward to getting new apparel because I think the apparel with Reebok, if I'm speaking for myself here, not very great. I'm excited to see what they can come up with there. But this has to be a step down considering they were with Reebok. And I know Reebok's going through their own sort of financial issues, but to go from that to go from an MMA-only brand, I think has got to hurt them a little bit long term. So we'll see how that goes. And another tidbit, I don't if you guys are aware of this, but I heard this from a coach the other day. Apparently, the Reebok deal is only for actual apparel.

Like the shoe deal with Reebok is actually still extended through this year, but in April, it's only their apparel. So they'll still be wearing Reebok shoes, but the shirts will be from denim. Have you guys heard this or not? Because I got a tidbit on this the other day. I have not heard this. Yeah, I don't think this is common knowledge. So that's what I heard from a coach, that apparently the shoe deal with Reebok is still

continued, but the apparel deal with venom will kick in in in April. So we'll keep tabs on that, too, because I think that's a pretty, big deal considering, you know, sponsorships and money and how is that all going to work. I think that's another thing to keep an eye on this year that probably won't get enough coverage. I would agree with that 100%. I don't think you're only speaking for yourself when you voice your displeasure of some of the stuff that happened with Reebok.

I have, I don't see it as a step back. I mean, yes, Reebok is, of course, a more well-known brand amongst a broader audience. But I think going back, I think going with an MMA apparel company, it's a good thing. If it allows for better designs, less errors, hopefully more individuality. I know that's asking for a lot under the UFC umbrella, but I'm crossing my fingers here. I'm the principle of positivity. I'm being optimistic. So anything that gets them away from Reebok, I'm happy about.

And, of course, hopefully results in more sponsorship money for the fighters. But we'll have to keep an eye on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't hold your breath, ladies and gentlemen. But last thing on this, AK, of course, I mean, the UFC is at the top of the list in terms of major promotions and storylines, but we had Bellator who had, they did what they could in a

pandemic-filled year. They took some time off. They came back. They had some big events, made a lot of interesting free agent signings, a lot of prospect signings, and then they come out with the Yo-O. O'Mero signing, the Anthony Johnson signing and so forth and so on. PFL also had a newsworthy year with their free agent signings bringing in Anthony Pettis and Roy McDonald and and countless others, but they didn't have any events in 2020 due to the pandemic and all the craziness that goes with putting on a season here in the sport of mixed martial arts. So which one of these promotions from like an intrigue and storyline perspective sticks out to you more with this new year?

Are you more intrigued about what Bellator is going to do? Are you more intrigued with what PFL is going to do after a year away? Okay. I'm not saying that they made the bigger moves, but relative, relative to, again, the position that they're in in 2020, and I guess this is easy to say because, like you said, They weren't able to run any shows in 2020. I think PFL did an amazing job of reminding people that want that they exist. And two, kind of saying like, look, oh, now we're really stepping up from our 2019 season.

Like, you may, you know, if you enjoy 2018 and 2019 seasons, great. This is even better. If you've never heard of us before, guess what? We bring in familiar names. We've got Verdume, former UFC champion. We got Anthony Pettis, former UFC champion, you know. Warren McDonald's coming in, of course, as James. said. We've got to keep an eye on that situation, former Belator champion. So I just, I think

relatively speaking, I think they made the bigger moves. A lot of people talking about Belator, of course, Y' like, you're all-a-Mero, Anthony Johnson, the quote-unquote best light heavyweight division in the MMA. I don't know about that, but it's at least a buzz phrase they have going around. But no, I'm really, really keeping on the PFL this year. I'm someone who, of course, has been a fan of the league for a few years now. And I'm always recommending people if they can find a good way to watch it. Sometimes they broadcast things free on Facebook. I'm not sure what's going on with their broadcast and deal this year, but either way, it shouldn't be too inconvenient.

So yeah, and I think it'd be really, really giving them a lot of credibility if someone like, and Anthony Pettis wins like a million dollars. It's just, it's not to take anything away from former champions, but I think none of them really necessarily broke through even after winning tournament. Lance Palmer won two tournaments and doesn't really have that much mainstream cashier, right? So I want to see what happens if it goes the other way. You take someone who already has a name and then they win a tournament. Will that help the league more?

Again, I don't know. I don't know for sure. But that, that for me is something definitely keep an eye on. What do you think, James? Which organization has a little more intrigue to you? I mean, PFL started off Roth. There were talks about lawsuits and getting people out of contracts. Then we saw Kayla Harrison fighting different promotions.

We saw Mohammed Usman fight for Titan FC. We saw some different things that are allowing their fighters to have a little more freedom as long as they didn't fight in the UFC or Bellator. But of these two promotions, Belator, PFL, which one are you more fascinated by, intrigued by heading into the 2021 fight year. It has to be Bellator. I mean, there's a possibility of them doing a light heavyweight tournament with names like Bader and Musassi.

And you know, you just think of some of the names involved Romero. Like, could you imagine if they pulled that off, how cool that tournament would be? That might be one of the best tournaments we've had since Pride. And I think there's just so much more intrigue with Belator the way they've changed their free agent signings, right? They're not just bringing over, you know, big names, like kind of what PFL is doing.

They're bringing over fighters that have potential. Jeremy Kennedy, Brett Johns. They're making these moves where they're actually making really competitive fights. They've got Sergio Pettus there at Bantamweight. They've got a new Bantamweight champion in Juan Archaletta. I think there's just so much more intrigue with Bellator in terms of being a pure fan of the sport. Yeah, there's some nice names over there.

And I'm sort of interested to see how like an Anthony Pettus will do over there. But from a competitive standpoint, I think there's way better fights to make in Bellator. And not even mentioning A.J. McKee, I mean, this kid is unbelievable. I think he's got one fight left in his Bellator deal. This could be a bona fide superstar for that promotion, especially if we end up getting the pitball and McKee fight. There's just so many better fights over there in Bellator right now. my only gripe with Bellator and Alex, you can relate to this.

When the hell are they going to figure out their TV deal in Canada? Because we can't watch right now. It's an absolute nightmare. And frankly, there's no excuse for it. I mean, Bellator should know that Canada is a very big market for them. They have a lot of Canadians on the roster. They got to fix that ASAP because you're missing a huge market right now. If you look at North America, there's plenty of Canadians that tune into MMA.

And I think they got to fix that as soon as possible. You know, I think, what is it, East Link, who no one has in Canada, has CBS Sportsnet? Well, the rest of us don't. If you're on a major television carrier, you don't get that. They got to fix that as soon as possible. Put it on YouTube. Put it on somewhere where I can watch it. I'm not having to find alternative methods to watch it.

But other than that, I think Bellator has got a much more intriguing season this year for 2021. Yes. Preach, James. Mike, I'm sure you how Paul goes, but I will say one other thing, one other feather in PFL's cap. And I assume the plan is to have her make her debut this year, but I guess it's not nothing guarantee until Fighters Books. Clarissa Shields. Between the two, there is no more talents, actually new talent that I'm more intrigued by than of course, Clarence of Shields, you know, great, great boxer, fantastic personality,

super charismatic. And how will she look at MMA? Don't know. Could look terrible. But she's saying all the right things, making all the right moves. I think PFL was a very good move for her, a logical move for her to sign with. They'll find, they'll find some for her to beat up, hopefully, you know, someone around her level of accomplishment experience. So that to me is the one name that I think that Beltor can match as far as how intrigued I am to see them fight. A lot of burning questions indeed as we get ready for the final question of this program in regulation.

It will go on because Alex K. Lee is on the board. It started off hashtag Marlin on Marlin and we went from there. You're just, you're cooking with gasoline, AK. So this final question of regulation, it can be interpreted in a lot of different ways. It could be a major name, could be a superstar, could be someone that's on the rise, a prospect, anything in between. Well, let's just go ahead and have some fun with this, A.K.,

we're going to begin with you. If you had to choose one fighter to watch in 2021, for whatever reason, and I know you mentioned Clarissa Shields. I don't know if she's your answer here, but who would it be and why? No, no, I'm going with a more conventional answer. I'm going with a champion.

I have two, actually, two ideas. They're both featherweights, but I'll go with my number one choice. If we're to expand further, I'll give my second choice. But my number one choice, but I had to pick. I think this is going to be a hell of a year for Alexander Volcanowski.

I think this guy does not get enough respect. I understand the two Holloway fights were close. Well, no, first one wasn't. I think the first fight, anyone who watched that is a clear-cut win for Volkowski. Maybe it wasn't like the most dominating, exciting win. But by the way we score fights, I'm sorry, guys. Volcanowski clearly beat him the first fight. Second fight, sure, up for debate.

And much more exciting than the first fight. And I also understand Max Hollow is a very well-likes champion. And if you're the guy that beats him, you're immediately going to get a lot of daggers pointed in your direction, unfortunately. But Volcanovsky is such a, he's such a funny interview. He's really,

he's such a great story as far as his body change, where he came from, how far along he came. There's so much to like there. And just people just, for some reason, are finding ways, always finding ways to discredit his wins. They didn't like how he beat Aldo.

They didn't like that. That didn't gain him a lot of fans either. But he's got challengers lined up. Brian Ortega, first and foremost, that fight has to happen. We got a book. that one. The winner of Cater Holloway. I don't know if Cater,

Holloway gets a third fight right away, but it's certainly possible, and if Cater wins, he beats Holloway, obviously, he definitely gets it. Zabit is out there somewhere. Josh Emmett, hopefully, fingers crossed, he can come back from that injury and fight sometime this year. He's certainly in talks. Arnold Allen. Bryce Mitchell, the goat, Ryan Hall, I mean,

the true champion, let's be honest, the real champion, Ryan Hall, if people can finally stop ducking him, he deserves it. And as something I sort of teased earlier, who knows, maybe even Henry Sehudo comes out of the woodworks instead. I'm going to quadruple C. I'm coming for one more title.

I'm coming back, but only 145. I'm on Volcanowski, blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying I want to see that, but I'm saying this is Volcanoxie's chance to have one of those classic three, maybe four title defenses, but at least three, which of course we kind of, you know, we missed out on in 2020 because of the pandemic

and limited a lot of people's options. But I do think of all the champions that might get that nice three title defenses in a calendar year, I think Volkanowski is definitely in line to do it. And I think he's going to. I think I favor him in pretty much all these fights, except against Ryan Hall, obviously.

But again, he will never fight him because Noah will. And I think by the end of the year, he's champion after beating two people, I think he'll have a whole, whole new level of respect. Or at least I hope that's the case. All right, James. We got, you know what, we will follow back up and let AK do it number two, and you can do the same, James. But who's your fighter to watch in 2021?

It was Clarissa Shields, but we already talked about her. And I just want to quickly mention that I think it's really intriguing with her just because of the fact she's not even in the prime of her career yet. It's not like a James Tony or Holly Home where they're coming over, you know, in their 30s and a little bit older. This is someone who's in the prime of their career working with Holly Home, which could, you know, is the best option possible. Holly came over from boxing, found a lot of success in MMA.

So very intrigued by that. That's going to be one for sure. But I'm going to go with one a little bit off the radar here a little bit. And things could get complicated depending on the division. But I'm going to go with Cyril game. Now we saw glimpses this last year with him getting the win over Junior Dos Santos. But this guy is unbelievable. You look at how little MMA experience this guy has and some of the winsiesies.

already got, not just over, you know, Junior Dos Santos, but, you know, beating Tanner Bozer and finishing Dontail Mays. This guy looks like the real deal and he's 30 years old, which he might as well be 18 in any other division because, you know, heavy, it's an old division. So this is a guy who's in the prime of his career right now. And there's an interesting storyline that I don't know if a lot of people are paying attention to. And that is Francis Nagano. Of course, who is gained coached by? It is Fernand Lopez, Francis Nagano's old coach. That's a fight down the line that could be very interesting if it does end up coming up. But this is a huge year for Cyril Gain because of the fact that if he continues to build like this,

if he gets sort of these wins over these more notable opponents, he's a guy, I think we've got to talk about it heavyweight and just his style with the fact that he's a young guy, very fast, very mobile. I think he's one that could really break into that contender spot this year and really sort of, because I think he's kind of flying under the radar a little bit. I think if you look at heavyweight in general, what was the last time we had a prospect like this that was just sort of, you know, taking everyone out. So I think Gain is a guy to really keep an eye on this year. I think he's going to make huge strides. And I think down the line that a potential fight with Nagano could be huge just with everything happening behind the scenes. Of course, if you haven't heard Nagano and his coach parting sort of on bad terms, Nagano now in Vegas, you've got Fernand Lopez now coaching Cyril Gaines, sort of his prodigy. I think it's going to be really interesting to see how that unfold.

So Cyril Gain is going to be my fighter of the year to watch. All right. Who's your other one, AK? I'm sticking with featherweight. And, man, I think, look, the A.J. McKee pit bull fight. I mean, that might be my most anticipated title fight of, I mean, off the top of my head right now, even taking into account like Izzy and Jan Blahovic, boy, that pit bull, Aegean-McKee fight sounds fun, doesn't it?

I mean, and McKee, unbeaten, homegrown bell to our talent, exciting as anybody competing at 145 pounds or 155 pounds, wherever you want. He's one of the most exciting fighters in the sport right now. He's so damn good. Who knows? Maybe he only fights once. this year. But even if he only fights pit bull, boy, that's big. I would imagine if he fought pit bull and beat him,

he'd sneak in at least one more title defense out, hopefully too. Again, hard to predict these things. But I think he's so intriguing. He'll become one of the guys to kind of reach that level of recognition outside of Bellator. Kind of like Chandler has to some degree, because Chandler, even before he came to the O.C., I think there's, you know, there was some respect there. I think McKee will get some of the same respect.

And without even having to jump ship, which is, you know, which is huge. And I think by the end of the year, I think this kid will be so good. I say a kid, but I think this fighter will be so good and shows so much that people will be asking, even with all the respect, I expect to be calling Volcanovsky's way. I think by the end of the year, law people will be wondering, man, is Aege McKee the best featherweight in the world? I think that discussion is going to come up. And I hope it does for both guys.

I hope it's not to take away from both guys. I hope both guys have such good years that that's the discussion we have. I dig it. James, you have any other ones you want to throw out, give you some equal time? I think this is kind of an obvious one. I don't mean to bore the audience. but I think Hamzat Chimaya, there's a lot of intrigue to see where this goes here.

It looks like they're going to rebook the Edwards fight. I mean, Dana White has said as much. We don't have a date yet. But I think, you know, there's a lot of pressure on his shoulders. If he doesn't go out there and demolish Leon Edwards, I mean, a lot of the hype that he built last year is going to kind of, you know, go away a little bit.

And granted, he can still go back up to middleweight. But I think there's a lot of intrigue here because, from my perspective, if Hamzaa Chimaya beats Leon Edwards, even if it's just a decision, I think he's getting a title shot. I really see the UFC pushing this guy. When was the last time we had a guy with three UFC fights, fight the number three guy in the division? That does not happen very often.

It's really intriguing to see what will happen there. And guys, I'm sure you guys see this with the traffic on your sites. Anything Chimae have related. This guy is the 2000, he was the 2020, Jorge Mosvold. Jorge Mosvv was the talk of the town in 2019. 2020 was Chimai of. Can he continue that this year? I think that's going to be very interesting.

And trust me, Leon Edwards is not a slouch there. Eight Fight Winstreet. Criminally underrated in the division. I think that's such a huge fight. And that's why I'm glad they're trying to rebook that fight. Well, James, we're definitely glad you're glad you mentioned him because we are actually contractually obligated to mention Hamzad at least once for show. Yeah, and it had been way too long. Thank goodness. So we can put that in the tags now. We can put that in the, you know, now we're allowed to put that wherever needs to go. Yeah. So we get to get that. So thank you. Thank you for mentioning Hamzad. Yes.

That's way too long to get to that. Whoa, I almost forgot. There were two things in 2020 that I got crushed on more than anything. One was calling. Volkadovsky Holloway 2, not a robbery. I got destroyed on social media for that. It wasn't a robbery. And the other thing I got destroyed on more than anything is I decided in my infinite wisdom for my first awards write-up in MMA fighting history

to write the breakthrough fighter of the year and Shemai have won over Kevin Holland. Good God Almighty that I get crushed. And by the way, I said on this show that Kevin Holland was my breakthrough fighter of the year. People are blaming me for that. Give me a damn break. Listen, you can't get mad with Shemai of winning that award.

The definition of breakthrough fighter of the year is fighter you never heard of, and now you heard of them. Okay? People knew who Kevin Holland was, so I understand that. But Kevin Holland went to another level. I get that to it. There's arguments for both. I don't want to hear any more crying about it.

None. No more. But I like your choices, gentlemen. I like them both. But we're going to side with Alexander K. Lee, because we are going to head to the first knocker. round of 2020. And this will be an interesting twist to the game, ladies and gentlemen.

Something we have never done before in the history of the program for the knock around. But the competitors have no idea where this is going. Oh, no. They will have 60 seconds to give their response. And then we will turn it over to the judge, the jury, the executive producer, E. Casey Liden, and he will render the final decision. First, we're going to do things the old-fashioned way, AK, pick a number between 1 and 50.

How are we authorizing this? Have you sent this number to the truck? Are we just supposed to trust you? Come on. Okay. I got the number in my head. This is nothing to do with the knock around. 35.

James Lynch. I'll go seven. 33 is the number. So, AK, you have the first option, and I mean first option, and you'll see where I'm going with this in a moment. But would you like to answer this question first or pass it up? on over to James Lynch. Give it to me first. That's how I roll.

You know, why do you even ask? Respect. Why do you even ask? Here's the thing. Here's what's interesting about this question, A.K. It's because what's interesting about it is you're not going to be answering the same question. I mean, you kind of are, but you're not going to be answering the same question. You now have a second choice to make because we are introducing a brand new segment to the

knock around. It is called, what am I thinking? We have four mystery options. choose from. Each option is a different fighter that you need to portray in 60 seconds or less what this fighter could be thinking at this very moment looking at 2021. So pick a number between one and four and then I will give you your, uh, your fighter. Why do you keep finding new ways to embarrass me? And you know, I was terrible at these originally. Four. Number four. Ooh. So in this round of what am I thinking, AK, you are Leon Edwards.

Leon Edwards was scheduled to fight Hamza at Shimae of December 19th, and then again on January 20th. Both fights have been postponed due to COVID-19 reasons. So we're going to put 60 seconds on the clock right now. And what are you thinking, Leon Edwards, with everything going on? Your time starts now. All right, all right. I'm Leon Edwards. I'm Leon Edwards.

It's, you know, I'm really looking forward to the Comzat Shemaya fight. I sound more like, I'll say who I sound like after. No, look, I still want, I'm glad that the UFC is not giving me a new opponent. Yeah, I've got a lot of stuff to care of mine. Again, we don't know what's going on with the UK lockdown situation. Hopefully, I'm still able to be booked whenever they need me. But this Comzaa fight has a lot of heat behind it. Yes, I would like to get back in there sooner.

Yes, I was hoping to fight in the first fight week of January. But at this point, I'm starting to trust the UFC's plan for me. It hasn't always been great. We haven't always gotten along. It's been a rocky road. But I know that if this Hamzat fight happens and I win, I am right back where I belong. I'm already a top five spot, but people still are not putting respect on my name. If I beat Hamzat, they will.

I don't know why my other wins didn't do it, but this is the one that does it. So thank you, UFC, for postponing instead of canceling. I'm ready to fight Hamza. still. All right. Thank you Leon Edwards. And now James Lynch, we have three other choices left. One, two, or three? Which one do you go with? One. Ooh, this is a good choice. It's a good choice, James Lynch. You are speaking on... Before you tell me, I know Mike just designed this because he wants me to do an impression because I'm very good at impression. So I think that's really comes back to. As good as my Leon Edwards slash

slash random Londoner. Not in celebrity pickoffs. Mike knows what I'm talking to in New York last in 2019. I'm very good at that. Anyways, go ahead. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

Actually, I didn't even think about that, but now that I think about it, might have to change us. But anyways, to be fair, you are speaking on behalf of the former UFC Bannaway champion, T.J. Dillishaw, who is going to be set

to make his return later this month after his USADA suspension comes to an end. 60 seconds are on the clock. What do you think? T.J. Dilleshaw, what's your 2021 goals? What are you thinking? Your time starts now. Well, you know what? First of all, man, like, I definitely didn't lose that title. You know, people saying that I was on EPO my whole career. They're just a bunch of liars and haters.

You know, man, like, I'm going to want to go out there and fight Josealdo. I mean, that's the biggest fight you can do right now. And you see my teammate one, Archaleta. You saw Brian Ortega. We're in a role right now, man. And personally, I just see, like, me coming back and, you know, reclaiming my throne. And I never left. You know, I never lost the Bantamweight title. So I'm feeling pretty good right now. You know, these guys are going to be calling me out, right? You got Peorter Jan and get Al Jermaine Sterling. Who's the biggest name in the division? It's me, man. So I'm just coming out and just wanted to prove my worth, you know, people want to count me out. I've been counting out my whole life, you know, Team Alpha

Mail, the peanut butter and all that stuff with Wayne Ludwig. Whatever, man. People always want to hate on me. But I'm going to come back and win that belt, man. You'll see. Wow. Wow. 12 seconds to spare. me Leon Edwards. Yes, my English accent changed, by the way, it's me, Leon Edwards. It's great to have you on the show, Mike.

You sound like Garrett Davies. Yeah, yeah. A lot of respect, a lot of respect. I think I'm doing Garrett. Also, I sound a lot like ex-Droit Lions head coach, Matt, Patricia. Go check it out, guys. Yeah.

Mike, you've got an amazing, I can't believe you got Leon Edwards and T.J. Dilshot call into the show. Wow. This is amazing. This is unbelievable. But now we,

We have to hand it on over to the Honorable Judge E. Casey Leiden, who this might have to be a regular thing on the program now, Casey. How do you rule after this incredible first knockout round of 2021? This was an easy one. Thank you, gentlemen, for your participation. But your winner for the first episode of 2021 between the links and new, the Canadian, James Lynch. Yeah. Oh, man.

No, this is ballocks, mate. This is ball ex mate. You know what, man? You've got to quit complaining. You just got to roll up the punches, man. I've been over two years. Oh, man, that was unbelievable. But, uh, James, the $7.

We don't have the $7 in the budget yet to give you your prize. Take a while to get here. You get 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is. You want to talk about good, bad, and different. You also earn yourself. A title shot against Jedmishu whenever you see fit. So the floor is yours, man, 30 seconds to talk about good, bad, and different in the sport of mixed martial arts.

Yeah, just want to thank you guys for having me on. But let's talk about 2021 and some of the matchups that are taking place. Enough with this, Leon Edwards should have taken a short notice fight guys. Like we talked there, he's got this rocket in Hamza at Chimae that he can fight, all the hype's behind him, this idea that he's scared to fight Chessa or Magni or any of these guys. We've got to get off this. No fighter's scared to fight anyone. Sometimes stuff makes more sense business-wise.

It's like Mosidol not fighting Edwards. That doesn't make any business sense for Mosswood. He's looking at bigger fish in terms of name value and all that. So fans, if I can teach you one thing in 2021, enough of this fighter is scared or they're duck. Sometimes they're just businessmen at the end of the day and women. Don't want to exclude them. But there we go. That's what I got to say here.

Just remember fighters are not scared to duck or they're not scared of anyone. Okay. Let's just want to end on that. Well, there you go. Before we say goodbye, a quick scheduling announcement. We are going to be changing things up with the schedule in 2021. We're going to swap things out for the foreseeable future. It's not happening next week.

I think it's going to have maybe a couple weeks down the road. But this program between the links will move to Thursdays moving forward, probably the end of this month. And then that's going to sort of give us a better chance to react to the news cycle of the week because so many freaking times on the show in 2020, we did a whole show. And then like the next day, this massive piece of news would come out. and we didn't even get a chance to react to it.

So we're going to do that. And then what the heck, which normally aired on Thursdays, that's going to be moved to Tuesdays. So we're going to try something different. I know change sucks. It's a pain in the ass, but we're going to try and make this as seamless as possible. We'll give you a little bit of a buffer space before we do that.

So stay tuned for more on that. With that said, thank you for joining us once again on the show. Love doing it. 2021 is going to be fun. Looking forward to it for James, aka Casey Lydden. I am Mike Heck, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn, takes you home and we'll see you back here next week, Between the Links.

Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck, brought to you by MMA Fighting, a production of Vox Media. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.