MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Episode 7 | UFC 251 Fallout, What's Next For Kamaru Usman and Jorge Masvidal?

Episode Date: July 14, 2020

Check out episode 7 of Between the Links as Mike Heck moderates the matchup between champion James Lynch and MMA Fighting's Alex K. Lee as they discuss the aftermath of Kamaru Usman's unanimous decision win against Jorge Masvidal in the main event of UFC 251.  In addition, the panel reacts to the controversial co-main event that saw Alexander Volkanovski successfully defend his featherweight title against Max Holloway via split decision, and Saturday night's card as a whole. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow James Lynch: @LynchOnSports Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Welcome to Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck. All right, we are back. Welcome to a brand new episode of Between the Links on MMAfighting.com. My name is Mike Keck. I am the host and moderator of the program. And good Lord, do we have a lot to talk about following UFC 251. We do have one new champion in Peuter-Yan.

after he finished Jose Aldo in the fifth round on Saturday night. The two other title fights, both champions retained, and that has created a lot of discussion amongst the MMA community. So let's talk about it right here, shall we first? Let us introduce the combatants first, the challenger. He's looking to capture the title this week after coming up just short against Jose Youngs and the inaugural episode of the show a few weeks back. He is joining us, the Prince of Positivity.

I guess now he calls his homeland Brazil looking at the shirt. but from MMAfighting.com, Mr. Alex K. Lee and a fresh haircut to boot. Welcome back, sir. Shoutouts, shoutouts, the Brazilian Biskir, May Cruz, who's providing all that fantastic coverage on site in Abu Dhabi. This is for him. And also, I didn't want to confuse people because I know you're going to introduce our special guests today. We are sort of representing the same territory, usually.

But, yes, glad to be back. I'm glad the sinister reign of Jose Youngs appears to have been ended for now. I'm sure we haven't seen the last of them. But either way, I'm excited to. to debate or conversate, as we say up north. There we go. And looking to make his third title defense, technically, because we didn't air his second title defense, but coming off a big win on last week's show against the aforementioned

Mr. Young's introducing the reigning, defending, undisputed, between the links champion of the universe, your friend and mine, Mr. James Lynch. Good to see you, my friend. Welcome back, champ. Thanks for having me back. I told you anytime anywhere. Glad to be back defending my title. There we go.

So for the rules, just go into the archives. We have too much to get to to explain them all. But first off, let's start with the main event of UFC 251. Kamara Usman picks up a pretty one-sided unanimous decision win over Jorge Mazadol. He retains the title. After the first round, it didn't seem like he was in any danger whatsoever in that fight. Now, despite the dominant win, gentlemen, fans have been very hard on Kamar Usman saying his performance was boring. He's been taking a lot of craps since Saturday night.

So, AK, we're going to start with you. First off, your thoughts on Kamar Usman's victory over Jorge Mazadal. And on top of that, how people have reacted to said victory. Look, Kamar Usman is a great champion. Okay, there's no argument at that 12 and 0 in the UFC right now. Just tie to, you know, the great GSP's UFC welterweight win streak record. So I have nothing but high things to say about it. However, as I assume, we're going to take a stance here, I do have to say, I understand.

why fans aren't, you know, head over heels in love with the champion after his second dominant title defense. He's, look, we can say everything we want about what do hardcore fans appreciate, what do casual fans look for. The fact is the majority of people watching this fight are not going to, you know, remember this as an all-time great sort of like thrilling performance by Usma. And that's, look, that's not his job. Okay, I know we're talking about sports entertainment here, MMA, but his job is to win fights. And his paycheck doesn't change that much depending whether he has an exciting fight or not, unless we're talking about, you know, fight a night bonus, maybe some future negotiations.

But from what we know, I think Luke Thomas pointed this out on Twitter the other day, they got paid the same. The most important thing is retaining the belt. So he took care of business, which is great. But at the same time, I will say fans who are critical of and say they don't want to watch him, look, I'm not going to tell them that they're wrong. James, what do you think? It wasn't the most entertaining fight in the world.

But what were people expecting? I think if you look at the last fight against Covington, that was pure stand-up, but had Usman fought Masfadol like that, that would just be a bad game plan. Why play to someone's strengths? I don't know what people were expecting. I think people are expecting Masfiel to pull up the upset. I think that's what they were hoping for. So he already had that strike against him. And then the fact that, you know, had Usman, you know, lost this fight, there was way more for him to lose in this match. People don't seem to care that Masfodal lost over the weekend. So I think for Usman, it's, there was a lot going into this. He couldn't just go out there and be

reckless. Like he has a title. You get paid more. the champion, so him losing would be a bad, bad thing or whatever. Yeah, it wasn't entertaining, but I just don't see a way it was going to be entertaining because all Usman had to do to win the fight was to wrestle. He's not going to take a risk and try and strike him. And I will give Usman credit. He did try and strike with Mosvodal, but you're not going to do that over the course of five rounds when you have this clear advantage in wrestling. So like I said, I don't know what fans were expecting Usman to do. Like he wasn't going to go out there and knock out Mosvah on the first round or submit him or anything like that. This was the type of fight we were going to expect.

And I just want to touch on something because AK mentioned GSP. A lot of people are like, well, no one got mad at GSP when he fought. Well, GSP was fighting a lot of wrestlers. So it was a totally different style matchup than what we saw on Saturday night. So I think we've got to cut Oosman a little bit of slack. But saying that, how could I sit here and lie to everyone here and say that was the most exciting fight ever? It wasn't.

I think, unfortunately, the bar was set so high when he fought Colby and people are so, you know, they romanticized about that fight that they were expecting a similar performance in this one. And that just was never going to happen when you looked at this fight on paper. Yeah. And by the way, people did criticize GSP a lot. I think if people look back on, I don't know, sure dog message boards or the underground or something like that. Even today, there's people who will look back and say GSP was a,

quote, unquote, a boring champion. So this is kind of like a mileage may vary type thing. I don't know. And maybe five years from now, people will be looking back at Usman differently. I'm not sure. But GSP did take a lot of flack for his when he became a, you know, primarily wrestler. Just to interject here quickly, though. I think part of that, though, that saved his was saving grace was the fact that everyone liked him. He was this like respectable champion. And, you know, his personality is a little bit different than Usman. He's a little bit more outgoing. I think that's more why they, yes, people did criticize. I'm not going to deny that, but Ousman's getting it even worse because he's a guy that just has not captivated an audience since beating

Colby. Like you don't, like more people were talking about Mousville heading into this fight than Usman. They even showed the numbers after the fight. I think Ousman had like, whatever, 300,000 views on his post-fight presser. Mousman had like two million. So that just shows you the difference in the two fighters. Well, yeah, clearly. I made a huge difference in the numbers across the board, not just the, you know, the videos on YouTube and links to your website, but just overall pay-per-view buys. I'm sure ESPN Plus was much happier having Jorge Mazdal in that in that fight than Gilbert Burns. And, you know, I just kind of piggyback on what you guys just said, because like James iterated, this fight went exactly the way I thought it was going to go on

Saturday. Like, I knew Mazadol would be a dangerous opponent, especially in the first couple of rounds, but with everything factored in, it just wasn't a great matchup for Mazadol stylistically. And Usman is a tough out for absolutely anybody at 170 pounds. But what is it about Kamara Usman that rubs people the wrong way, James? Like there's, you guys both mentioned GSP and we talk about his career. He's one of the greatest of all time. But at one point, starting at UFC 100, I think he had seven straight wins that were all decisions. Like most of them were dominant outside of the Johnny Hendricks fight.

But I remember him getting some flack, but he's, Usman's getting like nuclear heat for having a win as dominant as, as he got it on Saturday. I know Uzman isn't like the most personable guy in the world. He doesn't have the accent like GSP. He's not wearing suits and smiling all the time. But why does Ousman get so much heat? Why do you think that is? It's a couple of reasons.

Number one, I think he hasn't fought that much, right? Like he beat Woodley in March, then he fought Covington in December. And now he's fighting here in July. There's a lot of gaps in between there. So fans are very much like, what did you do last weekend, right? So I think that's part of it as well. We haven't seen him too much too. I don't think he's done a lot of media, to be honest.

Like you see he does the odd interview with, you know, TMZ or he is. SPN or whatever, but he doesn't get himself out there enough, I don't think. And like I said, when he beat Colby, he was on top of the world. Did you guys see any momentum after that? Did you even remember that he was champion like three months later? Because like they're just, he wasn't putting himself out in the limelight there. There wasn't any heat and Mossfodal and all these other guys, even someone like Colby, I know a lot of people don't like. He's still doing interviews and putting himself out there. So I think that's part of the reason too where fans need to be invested in something. And I just feel like that was never the case with Usman,

you know, leading in even into this fight. Like I don't think people were that invested. Everyone wanted to see Mossfodal win just because he's. he's the king of marketability and he's someone that has done a great job of that. Okay, same question for you, but I will say this to kind of add to James's point. I don't think this is Usman's fault, really, not getting out there and doing the media because if this is three or four years ago, Usman's doing media with anybody who DMs him on Twitter, but he's with a different team now. He has a different manager.

I think you know who that manager is. I'm not like trying to trash him or anything like that, but it's not his fault is what I'm trying to say. Like, if you, if you didn't have to go through multiple different channels to try to book an interview with Kamar Usman, chances are you probably do it. Yeah, there's a certain degree of exclusivity to him now, I suppose is the best way to put it. Yeah. And, but I would honestly think that he probably enjoys not having to as much media. I mean, he said during last week, I believe the noble quote was something to the effect of, look, I'm a true martial artist. I'm not a, I'm not a trash talk master. That's not what I'm trying to be. So even if he was doing all

this media, it really isn't in him to, you know, make these grandiose statements to start these verbal feuds. He's been very clear about that. You know, that's no secret. One thing I wanted to note was, uh, and Mazvedal, by the way, for everyone like who, who, you know, blames Usman for making this go to a decision, Mazvadol, before, I think, 2016, people right, this guy was a submission, a decision machine. I think he went to a decision prior to this, like crazy run he went on in like 19 of 21 straight

fights. He has 28 decisions. in his 49 fight career. So, yes, recency buys. He's been an amazing finish lately, but it's really unfair for people to go like, oh, it was my... Masvidal has gone to points many, many times.

So, yeah, these really strange narratives going to this fight, but, you know, that's MMA. What have you done for me lately, right? Quickly to just interject there, how many fights, though, when you watch Masfadol, do you say that was a great fight? That was like a fight of the night. You don't really get that with Usman.

And, you know, again, it's maybe unfair to criticize them that way because that's just his style where he'll just sort of suffocate his opponents with his wrestling and his condition. But with Mossadol, you know he's going to get hit in the face. You know, he's going to do something exciting. So I think that plays into it as well. Is that Mossol is a guy that people want to watch fight, whereas with Usman, maybe not so much. It's just crazy.

And AK, I want to go back to you, is this heat that he's getting? Is this a good thing primarily for Usman as his career goes on? Because from a business sense, he could embrace this role. And I'm not saying, like, he has to go full heel and start, you know, jumping people from behind and swinging steel chairs at his opponents. But he should embrace this role and be like, listen, you know, what, if you don't like it, do something about it, stop the takedowns, stop the clinch work, and it won't be that way. Like, if he came out and just said that, or, you know, just keep doing

what you're doing, people will pay to watch him lose eventually. He's in kind of a weird position right now. Is this heat primarily a good thing for him if he acts on it the right way? Gosh, it's really not. If only because, unlike in pro wrestling, where being a heel is certainly easier than being liked. In MMA, it's difficult to do either. I mean, it's one thing to have people, like you said, dislike you. That's actually easy. It is easy to be disliked. To make something out of it and like make a part of your persona and a marketable thing,

extremely, extremely difficult. I noted, so, you know, I wrote this column on Sunday. I won't repeat it verbatim. But essentially, he's become this sort of ultimate buzzkill, as it were. He has fighters bringing their very strong narratives into the fight. But then once they go five rounds with Usman, boom. Like that's, it's squashed. It's over.

And that's not always the best thing, unfortunately, for the UFC. Definitely not the best thing for his opponents. And unfortunately, it times not the best thing for his opponent. him because you need rivals and you need storylines. So when you kind of just snuff him out like he has, and again, this is not his fault. He's doing his job. But when you kind of snuff him out as he's been doing, it makes this unfortunate scenario for him where, yeah, he can't really capitalize on whatever supposed to heat or anything that his natural persona generates. So no, I would lean towards this not being a good thing. And I'm not sure what direction he has to go into, to reach that

sort of GSP level of appreciation. Agree or disagree, James. No, I agree. And I think even go back to that whole altercation at the palms with Colby Covington. Like, I don't think that made him more popular. I think if anything, it just made the whole situation look worse because he's trying to be this respectful guy. And then he goes and does this. And I know his manager played a role in that as well, too. But I mean, that should have been something that was going to get people either to love

him or hate him. I don't think it did anything. I think if anything, it just, you know, like Alex said, kind of buzzkill a little bit. So, yeah, it's just, it's unfortunate that, you know, because Usman is a great fighter, but it's just like that doesn't, you have to translate that to fans. And you have to get invested and you have to get interested. And I think there's just some fighters have it and they don't. And I just don't think Usman has that, unfortunately.

Yeah, it's kind of crazy because he's like everything you would probably look for in a martial arts at the end of the day. He's a nice guy. He's a family man. He's, you know, he's a good dad. He's a champion. He hasn't really lost many rounds as a, not, no fights in the UFC. But he's lost maybe like two rounds his entire UFC career. I mean, this guy is something else.

But at the end of the day, point is going to go to Alex K. Okay. on the board here. This has been very cordial so far, by the way. I paused everyone for how polite, like we said, two Canadians we're going to do. We've got plenty of show left. Yeah, I'm going to try and channel some aggression towards James. I'm going to pretend he like said something bad about like Ryan Hall or like Michelle Pareda, you know, something like that. And then that'll get me in the zone because, yeah, I'm ready to, yeah, I'm ready to bite. I'm ready to bite. But that was a bit of an easy one, right, Mike?

Yeah, but I think you guys both went in different directions. You guys chimed in on what each other said. So this is a good conversation. I got to sit back a little bit and watch you guys get after, which is nice. But let's go. Let's add on to this fight in particular before we move on to some of the other stuff that happened on Saturday Night because right now we have two guys in the Walter Weight Division who have legitimate arguments to fight for the title next against Kamaros. We have Gilbert Burns and we have Leon Edwards.

James, we're going to start with you here. The right thing to do clearly is give Gilbert Burns the shot. He was supposed to get it in the first place at UFC 251 before the COVID test happened. this makes the most sense in the world. But MMA makes no sense 95% of the time. So let's think about it this way. If you were the Walterweight Division's commissioner responsible for hiring the next guy to fight Kamara Usman

based on resume alone, like throughout the whole thing, who deserves this shot more because of what they've done to this point in this division? Is it Gilbert Burns or is it Leon Edwards? It's Gilbert Burns. And the reason that is is because if you, look at all the wins that Leon Edwards has, is there a bigger win on his resume than beating a guy like Tyron Woodley? I mean, I know Woodley, you could say that he's lost a step.

He's a little bit older. But the way Gilbert Burns beat him, that is bigger than any win that Edwards has had. And Edwards said some good ones. He has, you know, Vicente Lucay, Gunner Nelson, he has Soroni, Hafeldos, Anios, but none were as big as Woodley. And I think that's really what separates him here. And, you know, we talked about the Buzzkill with Usman. I mean, at least if he fights Burns, you have that interesting angle of two former teammates fighting each other. So there's some more incentive to do that fight. And I don't like. the idea, and they've done this before, and I'll give an example, but I don't like this idea where if you give someone a title shot, something out of their control, then takes them

out of that title shot. And in Gilbert Burns case, it was COVID-19. You know, Sajara Eubanks was supposed to fight Valentin of Shushenko. Do you remember this? And then they just were like, oh, yeah, that never happened. And we did Cormier and Derek Lewis. But, like, they've done that before where, like, someone's had a title shot and then they've just taken it away. So I think Burns was owed that. He was getting ready to fight for that fight against Kamar Ousman. You know, Usman left the camp just to make it accommodating for both fighters to actually take the fight. So I think they should rebook it. Not just that, but I mean, Burns is a finisher. That is, I mean, the Maya knockout. You saw the, you know, I think with

Woodley, obviously, like, you know, it's just a dominant performance. But to me, Burns is right now, he's, he's the hotter ticket. And you have to go all the way back to what, July of 2019, the last time Edwards fought. I'm a big Leon Edwards fan. I like him. Great interview. You know, good guy. But you got to go with the guy who's hotter right now. And that is Gilbert Burns. I mean, this is a no-brainer, in my opinion. AK, both guys have a claim. Both guys have lost big opportunities along the way. like James said, due to things out of their control. I mean, Leon Edwards was supposed to get that tired Woodley fight before all this craziness

happened. And let's be honest, the fight probably would have been pretty similar if Leon Edwards had fought Tyron Woodley too. But who has the better overall resume? Who is more deserving of that next title shot based on that criteria? Classic anti-Brit James Lynch. James, listen, James, we're no longer part of the colonies, man. Get over it.

All right? We don't have to have that animosity towards the British anymore. I love the... I just watched that movie, The Gentleman. the other day. British people are awesome. This is a shout-out-to-my- my British homies. I remember sending everything but Canada today, but shout-up my Brazilian homies. Shout out my British homies as well. James can claim Canada. Mike, you know, you and I, we did a feature short, you know, after the event,

and we were doing some matchmaking, and we both agreed. Burns is the fight we want, and it certainly was a fight originally made. I will make an argument for Edwards. I don't believe the word deserves or any derivation thereof exists when we're talking about MMA, especially the UFC. But if we are are, just for the sake of argument, I do think he is really deserving and maybe slightly more so than Gilbert Burns. That eight-fight win streak is really hard to argue against. And we mentioned how much of like opportunities, certain things are just out of his control. You mentioned the Woodley fight, of course.

And who knows how many other things, you know, slipped out of his hands, you know, rumored bows, things like that. Just because, again, he doesn't have that cachet. He's not a super exciting fight finisher. I think he's a good fighter. But again, he kind of falls into that stigma of people saying he goes to a decision too often, again, whatever, mileage me very. So, but eight-fight win streak, Dosanos, Gunder Nelson, Seroni's last three wins,

very high quality. It's really, really, I think, almost unfair to him, for him not to at least be right up there with Burns, even though, yes, I know the Burns fight was essentially made, so essentially made, was made, and then taken out of his hands for, you know, horrible reasons, of course, contracting COVID-19. But I will say, I think Edwards actually is slightly more deserving.

Not necessarily the fight I think we want, or that fans would want, I would certainly give Rocky a nod here. Let's keep this in mind, too. Before Gilbert Burns was slotted in at UFC 251, it was Mazel number one, Leon Edwards was number two. He got the call before Burns got it. But you got to step up and Leon Edwards just do on based on COVID restrictions in England,

like he had nowhere to train, couldn't get any kind of a camp ready in time to get ready for July 11th to fight Kamar Usman. So it just couldn't happen. But Gilbert Burns is just a freak of nature. He's just a weird guy that, you know, even if it was just him in his garage with one punching bag, that would be enough for him to take any fight because that's just the kind of guy he is. So I think we're all in agreement that Burns should get this next shot because of just how everything's played out. But yeah, Leah in our words definitely has an argument.

But we're in a ratings world here. We want people want to hear about Jorge Mazadol. So AK, back to you, we have a guy like Mazadol who, and I'm sorry, he lost on Saturday night. and it wasn't a close fight, and I will give him props for being a savage and taking this fight on six days notice, but he still got dominated and controlled for most of that fight. So in my opinion, his stock does take a little bit of a dip. Like, not much, but just a little bit. It's just the way that it is when you get into a main event spot, a highly anticipated

fight like that, and you can't really come through and you get dominated for 25 minutes. Still, with that said, he has a lot of options with his star power. So if you're the UFC, Alex, what do you do with Mazadol who has still this momentum in this star power next after Saturday night? Well, speaking of Mazved al, and also just one last thing with the Edwards thing, the fact, missed opportunities for Edwards, the fact that they never, that they did not make a hard push to get him in Mazvedal in the cage after that altercation in London is absurd, promotional malpractice. But it's so far in the past now. It's crazy that most people don't even talk about that anymore. But yes, I totally lost my train of thought.

Mike, what were we saying? What's next from Mazadol? Yes, what's next for Mazadol? I know Dana White said he doesn't want the BMF belt to be viewed as like an official title. Okay, you know, we all, and we all agreed. It should have been that kind of cool one-time token thing with Nate Diaz and, you know, not really be something that they treat seriously. But technically he didn't lose it. You know, it was kind of cool to say BMF belt versus UFC undisputed welterweight champion, but it's not like the BMF belt was on the line.

So since he still is the BMF champion and the beauty of it is, you know, wins and losses don't affect. I kind of wanted to see him in a fun matchup, and there's another one I threw out there in our post. I'd like to see him fight Anthony Pettis. I know it's not Connor Greger. I know it's not Colby Coveington, you know, some of these sexy names that are floating out there. But from a style standpoint, man,

that's exactly the kind of fight in Mazvedal should want. He's probably a little too big for Pettus, but hey, Petis seems comfortable fighting at 170. Mazvedal definitely is. That's a cool fight I'd like to see that. I think most people haven't really thought about. But once they, if they saw a book, they'd be like, yeah, yeah, I want that.

James, what do you think? because I think the fight's never going to happen. First off, I mean, Anthony Pettus, really, there's no way he's going to fight Anthony Pettis. Let's get real here, okay. Mosvodol is the biggest ticket in the UFC right now. He's going to fight someone with a name.

Petis, former champion, a decent name, but not the type of name that's going to get him a big payday. Remember, it's all about the money. Yeah, well, Wheaties Box, what? How long ago is that? There was ages ago. And by the way, you mentioned Leon Edwards, like 20 years.

Yeah, hold on a second. You mentioned Leon Edwards as well of why he didn't fight Mossadol. That's because, again, I think it even shows even more that a lot of fans don't care about Edwards. That was a legit confrontation they had. And Ben Ascran talked his way into that fight with Mosvod. So that overshadowed that. So I think, again, that just shows why Edwards is not the choice here.

It should be Gilbert Burns. But anyways, what's next for Mosvod? And didn't mean to interrupt the host. My apologies there. I've got to have some Canadian and maybe a little bit polite here. But in general, I think there's a couple different ways you could do this. Number one, I think you still got the Nate Diaz fight. I know a lot of fans don't want to see that.

But, I mean, that's still a big money fight and a winnable fight for Mosswood that would get him back in the winning track and could set him up going on further. The other thing it sets up is a potential Connor McGregor fight. I've said this for a while. That's the biggest fight you can make in the UFC right now is Masfodal and McGregor because of the fact stylistically, you know these guys aren't going to take it to the ground. They're going to stand in trade. And just the pay-per-view numbers on that would be insane.

But I don't think he do that next because I don't think McGregor fights until they get the crowds back. So that's why you do D.S. first, give it some time to simmer and then you do the McGregor fight next year. The other angle you could do on this is him and Colby Covington. I mean, there's clear heat there between the both of them. The only problem there, though, is, again, it's not a good style matchup for Mospital. Do you want to risk him losing two fights in a row?

I know he's lost a bunch of fights already, but you don't want him to lose to Colby, but if the UFC thinks that Mossfiel could beat Colby and you don't like Colby and they're not in a rush to book him, then maybe you do do that fight and they're former teammates. So I think you've got to look at with Mastphal. He's not like any other fighter. He's not just going to fight like a Leon Edwards or a, you know, like a Wonderboy Thompson rematch. They're not going to do that. They're going to give him a big name.

He calls the shots now. That's why the UFC decided to pony up that money and give him the Ustman fight because they knew how much better that pay-per-view would be. So trust me, Moswell Pett is never happening. It's going to be, like I said, Diaz, Covington, McGregor, one of those names in there, I think, next. Last thing on this, James. There was another swipe at Leon in there. What is not a swipe? What is going on?

It's not going to have. We got to look at this from a marketing perspective. I'm a big Leon Edwards fan. I think he's great, but we got to call it like it is, man. We can't be too polite as Canadians. We can't just, you know, overcompensate for things. I mean, let's get real here, right? Like, that's why they weren't in a rush to make that fight with Edwards and Mastewel

because Moswell might lose that fight and it's not like it's going to help Leon Edwards if he wins, fans would hate him even more. All right, so how about this? If people don't really care about Leon Edwards, why don't we make them care? Leon Edwards versus Colby Covington. Any chance that fight happens because you and I, James, we both have spoken to Colby over the last seven days. He said the same thing.

I'm ready. I'm the people's champion. I'll fight anybody the UFC puts in front of me. it seems like if Burns is going to get this title shot, there's only one fight that makes sense because we don't think Mazadol is going to fight Leon Edwards. Why not Leon Edwards versus Colby Covington? I think that makes all the sense in the world at this point.

Because there's Tyron Woodley. He's a former champion. They've had heat for years. Colby would be getting Woodley at a perfect time where he's coming up two dominating losses. I think now that's if the UFC sees something in Colby, they want to continue building him. That's the fight to make, absolutely.

But they could do the Edwards fight if it's just a case of Colby needing to fight. Because who's he going to fight? I mean, he can't just sit on the sidelines any longer. He hasn't fought since December. They're going to need to put him in there soon. So Edwards is an option. But 1A for Colby, if it's not Mossville, would definitely be Tyron Woodley.

That's the fight to make. It's so interesting, James, because I asked him the same question about Tyron last week. And he said he had absolutely no interest in fighting him anymore. And then he talks to you. And he says, there's heat. I'm the people's champ. I got to give the people what they want. A.K., what do we do with the Colby, Tyron, Leon Edwards, little triangle here?

Because you could put Leon Edwards in that fight too. I'm all for this Colby versus Leon thing now that you guys mention it. Again, look, we know Colby would have a field day. I can only imagine the horrible, horrible British stereotypes that he would bring up. But you know what? He'd pop up on your show, Mike. He'd pop up, I'm sure, doing an interview with James. Him and James could share some great stories about their anti-Britishness and how much they dislike Leon Edwards.

So that would great. That would flow very easily. And then, so yeah, I'm all for that matchup. Yeah, sign me up. I like the idea of Leon versus Colby. All right. We're going to have to do on to the next one, part two tomorrow on MMIFutting.com. Yes.

The point goes to the Canadian. Although, one exactly weird of color. I know, I know. Trying to build up that drama. I think our producer will appreciate that. But let's move ahead to the other massive talking point from Saturday night. And that is the co-bate event between Alexander Volcanovsky and Max Holloway. It was a close fight.

It was a really good fight between two of the best 45ers in the world. In the end, two judges saw it for Volkinovsky. He retains the title via split decision. Now, to make it a little personal. here for the first time in a long while, I have taken a bit of a beating on social media. Why? I said this fight wasn't a robbery. I mean, holy crap, I can't believe those words came my mouth. How dare me for saying that. But just to make this a little more sweeter and just to make sure that I was correct in saying so, rather than get a couple of hours sleep after the event

before an early morning tea time with my father on Sunday, I sat down and I re-watched Volcanovsky v. Holloway. And in the end of those 25 minutes, even more so I didn't think it was a robbery. In fact, hot take alert, get your sound cues ready to go. There was even more of an argument in my mind that Volkadovsky won that third round on second viewing. So I will also say that my opinion is my opinion. That's how I saw it. Doesn't really matter. The judges make the final decision. So anyways, Mr. A.K. Lee, we're going to start with you. No one in the media space has more respect from the fans. No one in the media space has more experience in robberies in fights than you do. Was this a robbery on Saturday

night? Of course it wasn't. This is, Mike, look, you took a lot of flack on social media. And guess what? That's what happens sometimes when you are absolutely correct in today's age of social media, okay? You're going to take some flag. And look, by the time this air is my latest robbery review about this rematch, of course, will be up. And look, I fully expect it here from the other side of it. There's people who are questioning why I even did an article on a fight that was so obviously not a robbery. So you're going to hear both sides of it. But I mean, even if you just sample some of the fighter reactions, the majority of fighter reactions

I saw were questioning that decision. Even Tyson Pedro, Volcanopsis countrymen, was like happy for Alex, but a little unsure about those scores. So he was very nice about it. But he was among the people questioning it. No, it's not a robbery. I did, for the record, I did score it for Holloway. At first glance, I said Holloway won the fight.

But it was a close fight, and the first thing we always say is, for the most part, fights that are that close and that competitive almost can never be called robberies. It just seems contradictory, in my opinion. If you want to dig a little deeper, and again, I wrote about this, the stats will shock some people in no round. And it was just talking about significant stats. And again, significant striking stats, and again, not every significant strike is created equal, obviously.

But Volkovsky did not lose a single round on significant strikes. The first round was a tie, and these are, by the way, from UFCStats.com. The first round was a tie. The second round, Volcanovsky had a one significant strike advantage, and then he blew out, he blew out, Volknoffsky blew out all the other rounds by double digits. So, yes, those don't tell the whole story. Holloway was not credited with any knockdowns, but we all saw the stagger at the end of round one, the stagger at the end of round two.

So not a knockdown, but really a knockdown, almost by any other name, really a credit to Volcanovsky's toughness more than anything else. But so no, if you take the stats, it's not a robbery. If you take the eye test, it was such a close, enjoyable, entertaining fight. And yes, it was definitely fun to root for Max to get his belt back. I was probably a little biased myself. And once I saw how well he did in the first two rounds was already writing that narrative in my head that he was coming back to win. But after watching again, as you did, really close, I could really see for Bolkinovsky.

No, not a robbery. No way. James, was this a robbery? Like, the great John Anick was one of the people who replied to the tweets and said, Listen, robbery gets thrown out too much. Maybe hosed. Maybe I'll go with the word hosed watching it at first glance. Did Max Hollowie get flat out robbed on Saturday night?

Absolutely not. I actually scored the fight for Volcanovsky. And I think part of the reason my viewing was different than a lot of other people is I had the commentary down. I was doing other stuff that night. So I was sort of, you know, just watching it without the commentary. And from what I could tell, just watching some of the fights, like some of the, you know, the commentary was a little bit biased because I did watch it again.

And I realized that, yeah, look, they were kind of going for Holloway a little bit there. So that's part of it. But this is what it comes down to, okay? Max Holloway, I think no one's going to debate this, clearly won the first two rounds. I don't think there's any debate with that. I don't think you give Volcanovsky those first two rounds. The third round is what decided the fight. And that's where people get upset is that a lot of people felt like Holloway won that,

but I scored it up for Volkanowski. You got to look at the fact that he did land, I think it was a three-piece combination. He also landed a counter left in that round as well. And he blocked some leg kicks. He also went for a takedown, which he didn't get. But again, I thought Volkanowski was doing a little bit more in that round. And like Alex said, the significant strikes, like if you look at the difference, You know, like people don't look at that.

They just look at what they saw on screen. You got to look at those little details as well. Now, four and five, I thought were clearly Volkinovsky's, especially that fifth round where he was able to get the takedown and able to impose as well a little bit. So, no, it's not a robbery. A robbery is, to me, is where clearly, like, the other fighter did not win a single round. Like, you can't sit there with a straight face. Even the biggest Max Holloway fan can't sit there with the straight face and say that

Volkinovsky didn't at least win two of those rounds, let alone one. Diego Sanchez and Ross Pearson's a robbery. Why? Because I don't think Diego Sanchez won a single. round of that fight. There's a huge difference between that and something like this that was a close fight. A robbery, absolutely not. A close fight, absolutely. Look, if it went 48, 47 Max Holloway, no complaints on this Canadian's end by any means because it was that close of a matchup. Not a robbery, though. Get your facts straight, people. And here's the crazy part of this whole thing.

Everyone's talking about the third round being in question. All three judges, all of them, even the one who scored the fight for Holloway, scored it for Volcanovsky. Every single judge gave the third round of Volcanovsky. One thing I do want to say, and I did have at least one respectful conversation on Twitter with someone about this, when the scoring structure is based on a boxing model and use score fights with that model,

this says more about this whole conversation and anything else. And guess what? This is not changing anytime soon, ladies and gentlemen. I hate to tell you this. These commissions, they can't even get out on the same page with rule sets and definitions, and you want to throw away the playbook

and just start from scratch, Are you crazy? How the hell do you expect that to happen? This is just a wild time that we're in right now. But anyways, Alex, James gave his definition of a robbery. I'm starting to sweat here. But what constitutes a robbery in your opinion? James gave his example.

What's your example? Firstly, as you mentioned, it's funny that it came down to the last round and that one of the, like, if one of the judges gave that round to Holloway. And if you look at the numbers, I think that was actually the big, statistically, the biggest round for Volcanowski. So very strange. But what defines a robbery? Okay, Pearson Sanchez, for sure.

If we were actually doing a dictionary definition, you would have a photo of Pearson Sanchez from that fight because that was absurd. Yeah, no, it has to be ideally, obviously, you know, there's like something truly controversial, like a knockdown or something that for some reason is ignored. Again, like we said in Pearson Sanchez. But even for the most part, even if it's just a fight where there's no knockdowns or no takedons, there are fights where you can tell one guy is just tooling another guy up. on the feet.

We've seen it happen. It's happened to Leonard Garcia a bunch of times in fights that he's won, where anyone with any sort of critical eye can see that, yes, he's an active fighter. He's swinging for the fences. He's walking forward. He's got octagon control. But if you're not landing anything, you can't score it. Or if the punches are being, like, I mean, judges, they're trained judges.

They have to be able to tell which shots are glancing, which shots are coming off the arm, which kicks are getting checked. It is. It is a tough thing to do. I'm not saying it's easy. You know, judging fights live. Actually, when you're not watching TV, you're a judge, you only have one angle, one particular angle. It's difficult.

But that's why you're a trained judge. They're more qualified than us, you know, and we watch a lot of MMA, but they're more qualified. They should be way more qualified than us do their jobs. It just often doesn't seem like they are. So like James said, I don't know if it has to be a fight where a guy didn't win a round, but one where he's at least clearly outworked in two or more rounds. It's not a phrase I like to turn on often, but it's certainly how.

happens, and you know one when you see one is probably the best answer. All right. So I have two questions. One has to do with this fight and one has to do with the main event. Alex, I'm going to ask you about this fight in particular because we've had this conversation before. How different of a fight would this have been between Holloway and Volcanowski if there was open scoring?

You know, I'm one of those people. I'm not an advocate for, I shouldn't say. I understand why people want open scoring, and it certainly would have its benefits. But I don't know if I'm in favor of saying that it would have affected this particular fight at all. Yes, Holloway did seem to take the foot off the pedal just a touch in round five. And that's the one where, you know, Volkanowski, like I said, pulled away. And I think we all thought he won that last round. But I don't know if that has, again, as much to do with him thinking that he was comfortably up.

Or again, Volkanowski is just being a great champion and finding his rhythm and finding Holloway's timing. So this particular fight, I can't imagine that open scoring would have mattered because I because I can't picture someone like a Holloway ever taking a round off. You know, that guy is, again, talking about great champions. He himself was a great champion. Still is an incredible fighter, one of the best fighters in the world. And whatever the score is, he's going, he's going to give his best, you know, for five minutes, even if he did lose that last round.

All right. And to James, how different would the Usman versus Mossadol fight have been if there were fans in the building, booing? complaining, throwing stuff. Like, they wouldn't have thrown stuff. But you know what I mean? Like, if you heard the sounds of 15,000 people booing and, you know, would it have changed the referee's perspective?

Like, would the fight have gone any differently? No, not at all. I mean, Usman, no matter what, knows that his job is to win. He knows that his paycheck's not going to be as big. If he, if he doesn't beat Jorge Mosvdol, and you beat Jorge Mosvital by using your wrestling and using your conditioning. And that's what he did. I don't think it would have made a difference because he's had fights that have gone

the distance before. It's not like something new where he has to, you know, sort of think of it. And not just that, like, you know, I, I think in general, he doesn't strike me as a guy that gets influenced by the crowd. So that fight would have been pretty much the same. If anything, you just would have heard more booing or more cheering from Osphidal on the broadcast than you would have with nothing, obviously. Point for this round goes to James Lynch.

So we head to the final question of regulation. Look, ladies and gentlemen, no one's complaining here, okay? This is our job to watch these fight cards, especially one of this magnitude, like UFC 251. But we had a long night on Saturday night. It seemed like that whole card took forever from start to finish. And I believe, like, the numbers suggest that this was the longest card in UFC history in terms of how many minutes were actually spent competing in the cage. They get beat about, like, five or six minutes from the Marlene Tybora main event that we actually got to see in our lifetimes.

But listen, not every car is going to be a knockdown drag out of fare. It's just not going to be. But James, I want to start with you. On paper, UFC 251 was a big fight. I think we gave the entire episode during regulation last week to the buildup to this fight car. We had three title fights, main event that got the world buzzing. But in delivery, what would you grade UFC 251 as a whole on Saturday night and why? I give it a seven.

And the reason I wouldn't give it like full marks or totally is because, you know, the main event didn't play out. I think, I mean, we knew on paper that it wasn't going to be like, it was probably going to end up like this where Usman would go out there and do what he did. So we'll kind of scratch that out of the equation now for the second here. But I think you had some, I mean, we talked about robberies. You want to talk about robberies. Let's talk about the undercard with Pavia and Zumaulagov in the flyway fight. I mean, that was one that I thought should have gone the other way. How about Sackalov and Zaleski?

That was another fight that should have, I think, went the other way. So you had two bad judging scorecards on that. You had the Leo Santos fight, which just like, what, like, could have Bogotov's, like, stock on any lower in that fight? He was undefeated heading in. Gets two groin shots. Does the, you know, illegal knee. Like, this guy is, like, just asking to be called a dirty fighter for the rest of his career after doing that. But we're going to Leo Santos.

It might be like the nicest guy ever. It just was so nice about everything after the fight. So there was that. The Taibura fight was awful. I mean, there's no other way to describe it. It just was not very pleasing. Like you knew that this is what happens in heavyweight fights. If there's not a quick knockout, then it ends up going a three-round fight and it can be kind of boring.

The only sort of saving grace, I think, which is why I give it sort of above like a, you know, 50% is, I thought the Davey Grant knockout was great. I thought the Hibas submission over Page Vanzant was very impressive. I actually didn't think that fight would end so quickly. And then the nominee unis on Drozh fight really delivered. as did the Yon and Aldo fight as well. But I think, you know, to me, 70%, 7 out of 10, I think that's a fair score just with what they had to deal with, some of the changes on the card and everything like that.

But bad judging and a couple bad fights in here can't give me full marks in my opinion. So that's why I'm going with the 7 of 10. A.K. James has given it a 7, aka a C, what say you? That's a C. I got a lot of 7s when I was in school. I thought that was like a B or, oh, no. He's lying.

This guy got straight A's. Well, I thought I was, but apparently 7 wasn't as high as it actually is. Well, I'll be generous and I'll give what I thought I was getting in school. I'm definitely going to give an eight. And the good thing for the UFC is when they can sort of package the best parts of this together, I mean, it'll look like a nine or a ten. Because, yes, if you're talking about the live experience, the live, what was this,

over eight-hour experience, if you chose to watch from the very, very first early preliminary bout or had to, as is the case with us, love my job. I mean, look, nothing that. I don't like watching movies that last over two and a half hours long. So if you're talking a sporty event, that's eight hours long, you're really pushing your luck, buddy. You're really pushing your luck. So in that sense, yeah, it can't be higher than the seven. It's not possible.

But again, if you take the best of it, like I said, an eight or nine, because the three of the, sorry, four of the five main card fights were all compelling in their own way. Again, we said he was a great finish. I thought the women's strawweight fight was really good, so tense. Jan and Aldo was great. Volcanozky and Holloway. I know people are mad about the decision, but I think when they go back and watch it, they realize, holy crap,

that was like a really, really good five-round title fight. Just like, incredibly well-fought. And then, like I said, if you can ignore some of the other stuff, you have what a debut for Prohachka, Amir Khani with that fantastic submission. Carol Rosa, not an exciting performance,

but someone who looks like a contender at 135. So there's all these stories. David Grant became just the second knockout of his career, his first finished, like eight years. There's so much for the UFC editing team to work with here. So for them, it's at least an eight, possibly a nine. It was just a very, very successful event. And if they're right about the way the numbers were trending, once Mazudal got involved, then, you know, even better for them. And a sick part of me, I'm sorry,

the 30 minutes of foul time that we had to endure, I think. Horrible, but some of it was darkly hilarious. Okay. Poor Zubagulov takes two kicks to the yavos and loses the fight. And took the final short notice and his opponent missed weight. That's, that's, that's MMA. And, and, uh, and, And Roman Bogotov, gosh, I don't know what this guy was doing. Jed Mishu and I are always advocating for more cheating in MMA. He may have been reading too many of our articles because this guy needs to settle down. He went wild in there. I mean, those two cup shots were accidental for sure.

That knee, I don't know where that came from. But yeah, so this card had it all. Big, big fights, good entertaining fights, and also dark, dark comedy. Mike Coppinger of the Athletic just tweeted out that UFC 251 generated approximately 1.3 million pay-per-view buys on ESPN Plus. So those are the numbers. He's getting so, you know, success. UFC can say, well, these guys are saying.

I'm telling you. Oh, for sure. He's a massive star. But to follow up, and James, I want to flip-flop this thing back to you because Jose Young's brought up an interesting question during our post-fight show.

Going back to, like, UFC 240 and, like, how these pay-per-view events played out and how fired up people were to talk about it after the fact. Like, I'm not, I don't want this to come off, like disrespectful at all. But was this like one of the worst overall pay-per-view cards in delivery and recent memory in terms of entertainment? Like compared to 249, 250, even the past ones, this wasn't, this wasn't as good as those

other ones. Was it like, where would you rate it? Where would you rank this thing out of the last 10 pay-per-views? Well, if we're going strictly on the pay-per-view, I actually don't think it was that bad because the undercard, I think, was a little bit worse in terms of some of the stuff that happened. But as far as the pay-per-view itself, I mean, yeah, they all had, most of them had like a good main event that people were like, oh, this was like a, like, like, like,

Ferguson, I mean, we're really comparing this like Ferguson and Gachi, which is just like almost unfair because that was just such a crazy fight. But I think in general, yeah, I'd probably put it like maybe like number three spot, something like that. But part of that too is just the style matchups as well, right? Like we shouldn't have expected Usman to go out there and have the type of fight he had with Colby Covington because it's just a completely different fight. He's fighting a guy whose strength is striking. So you weren't going to see that in this fight. I thought Volcanowski Holloway was a great fight too. But unfortunately, the judging was overshadowing that.

Dion Aldo, we haven't even talked about this. I mean, how late was that stoppage? I think that's also overshadowed that how good that fight was because people are talking about the stoppage instead. Namunis Andraj, that had bad judging. How was it a split? I thought Rose clearly won that at her corner, Androge's corner telling her she's up two rounds.

That was crazy. Rebus Van Zahn, I mean, that was pretty predictable. But yeah, I wouldn't, it's definitely behind those other ones. Like you said, I can't remember all the top off the top of my head. But in general, it's definitely not one of the best ones that executed, like you were saying. Yeah, I think AK, the question, for like the entire card or whatever, you know, where was this one rank? Like if you look at all the pay-per-view fight cards from start to finish, from UFC 240 to

UFC 21, where does this thing end up on that list? Like James said, I'm not like Jose Young's John Nash type where I can remember all the favorite views and who fought on what. So I'll say it's if I had to guess all the time I'm head, I still would put this one like in the upper half of that stretch of paper views. I think you guys are being way too harsh on the preliminary. It's like I said, yes, after the Davey Grant-K-O, it was tough going for a few fights, I admit, I admit.

But once Santos Bogotov happened, look, that fight was rough, but that was like watching the room, the room version of a fight, you know what I mean? That was some Tommy Wazzoa chaos, which I can enjoy. Bogotov was like, I did not, I did not hit him below the belt, you know, that sort of thing. So I think you guys being way too harsh on the preemptiesau. limbs. Again, maybe now that I've survived the experience, I can talk about it more positively. But I would put it in the upper half of the last 10 or 11 or so pay-per-views. Let me just interject here quickly because Alex K. Lee did have a tweet on Saturday night.

I'm going to reference it here, and this might change your decision on what you guys think of who won this round. Did you not say that I don't remember anything notable of Marcyne Tybrose's career? So if you're saying that, does that not make the undercard not so great? Come on. I'm not saying it was amazing. I'm saying that there was a three-fight stretch there. that was rough. But if you're saying something like that, does that not make it not a great prelim? Does that fight not stand out like a sore thumb?

I mean, you can't put that up there. Oh, but you can't ignore the Pohashka performance, which was, which again, hilarious. But we knew that was going to be a good fight. The Taibera fight,

that was a big thing. The biggest disappointment for me was the King of Kung Fu versus Capoeira, because, I mean, technically may be a decent striking match, but certainly not the kind of martial arts movie we were all hoping for. But no, I think there's enough highlights

on the prelims to say that they were not, I did not consider them to be, like, extremely bad. There have been, I would definitely say there have been worse preliminary cards on paper views than this one recently. So, no, I thought there was definitely enough highlights that I left kind of leaving with a little bit of a buzz. Yeah, I usually judge these cards based on how I feel after the fact. Like, there are certain cards where I, even if I wanted to go to sleep, I just can't because I'm just so fired up after it. This is not one of those cards. I wish I could go to sleep.

I just couldn't because I had things to do. but the point goes to Mr. Brazil, Alex K. Lee. I want to hear this fifth question. So let's make it happen. This is the knockout round, ladies gentlemen. One question that neither of these guys know about. I'm so excited to hit the table. So hopefully they are ready for this.

They will each have 60 seconds to give their answer. Once the round is over, we will go to Judge E. Casey Liden in the truck to render the final decision. James, as you know, the choice is yours as the champion. phone, would you like to go first or pass it on to Mr. Alex K. Lee? I'm going to pass it on this time. Use a different basketball reference, Pippin to Jordan. There you go. There you go.

A.K., here is the question. But I'm Jordan, and that's not right. True. We have two more fight island cards coming up just this week. Okay? We get Calvin Cater versus Danny Yeg. That headlines Wednesday night card. And we've got Davis and Figuerreta versus Joseph Benavitas for the flyway title.

That is scheduled to have. line Saturday nights card. And AK, you know me well and up by now that I'm a storyline guy. So here's the question. What is the most under the radar storyline heading into the rest of this week? Could be a fight, could be a fighter, could just be a crazy out-of-the-box storyline in general. The choice is yours. 60 seconds on the clock, you may begin. I don't, I thought you were going to ask which is the more compelling fight. I know you would have picked Cater because you're a New England guy. But I think, and I know you just mentioned these two, but I have to put extra emphasis on this, because I'm such a fan of this guy. I don't think it was emphasized enough in their first meeting,

and I don't think it's being emphasized enough now. I don't know what it is, but people need to talk more the possibility of Joseph Benevides finally winning that UFC title. Look, Figueroa won that first fight. He missed the weight. It was an unfortunate thing. There was a headbutton there, which definitely counted. I'm not making excuse for Benavides, but anyone who saw that fight knows it ended under unfortunate circumstances, you know, not ideal. So Benavides is a guy who has fought and gone to a decision with some of the best in the sport. He's like unappreciated pound for pound. I think one of the best guys ever.

But because he doesn't have that UFC title or the WEC title, he just doesn't get that respect he deserves. And I will say, speaking from a fan-boy perspective, seeing him finally capture that belt, I think that would be one of the best stories of the year. And I really don't feel like people feel the same way, even after it happens. But I think they should and I think they should give him disrespect if he wins on Wednesday. not Wednesday, whenever that, sorry, Friday. Saturday.

Saturday. What day is today? It's Monday. See, that's because UFC 251 seemed like it took three days, but I'm just kidding. No more shitting on the card. But James, you're up.

60 seconds on the clock. Go. Mine is going to be the co-main event of Saturday's card, Jack Hermanson and Calvin Gaslum. This is very, this fight is going completely under the radar. It's such an important fight

for the Middle East Division. I don't think people realize that if Calvin Gaslom loses on Saturday, which is entire, entirely possible, by the way. I see he's the betting favorite, but Jack Hermanson's no joke, had the one lost to Cantonier, but before that had a nice winning streak, including a win over Jokuree. If Gassum loses here, that's going to be three in a row. And I don't think people are going to have even processed the fact that this is a huge fall from grace for Calvin Gasson,

because he was seconds away from winning that interim middleweight title against Israel at Asana in that fourth round when he knocked him down. He was very close to winning that fight. He loses the Daryntill fight, had a bad weight cut. That was a fight he was favored in as well. And now he's fighting a guy in Hermanson where even if he beats him, it's not a huge name for him the division. But if Hermanson wins, that gets him right in the horse, sort of speak, in that division and gets him back close to title contention like he was before prior to fighting Jared Cantonier. And you think of Gaslam, an ultimate fighter winner, a guy that, you know, is also on as a coach as the ultimate fighter, pretty popular guy. Not a lot of people are talking about

him. So if Gaslam loses this weekend, it could be very detrimental to his career. AK1, a little over the time limit as to James. So what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I think that's the cliche term. But at this point, we got to head off to the truck, to man with a golden gavel. There's only one thing left to do, ladies gentlemen. It's time to crown a champion. So E. Casey Leiden, the man who calls it right down the middle like Bill Alfonso

and ECW back in the mid-1990s, you've heard the closing arguments. How do you rule? Who's walking away with the most coveted title in MMA media? Got to get a pin and paper. You got to add these scores up. Don't hurt yourself. Oh, God.

Okay, I have to readjust the score. now. You're a winner. The Brazilian and new! Alexander, the bad boy. Kaylee. That's a split decision at best.

That's a split call at best, much like the many that we saw on Saturday. This might be the Volcanovsky versus Holloway. It might be. I think we're going to get some comments. Yeah. Casey, before we give Alex's his 30 seconds, can you give us a reason why you went with AK here?

Joe Benavitas Joe Benavis the guy might be he's on that he's on that list of the greatest UFC fighters

that haven't won the belt and I believe he's on that kind of you know that list you don't want to be on it you know you want to be on it

but you don't want to be on it and I think that by far is the biggest story coming out and it's a bit of a positive thing Kelvin just is you know Kelvin losing it with

suck, you know, how close he was to gold. But I think the Benavita story, the rematch, and the headbut, the weight cut, even this drama coming in with the COVID testing for his opponent. So that edged it out for me. I will agree with both of you that both of those stories are supremely under the radar when it comes to Fight Island. No doubt about that. But AK, you have 30 seconds.

You know how it is. You can talk about anything you want, good, bad, indifferent in the sport of MMA. Go ahead. Well, for one thing, I was playing to an audience of one with that answer. I knew the truck would appreciate that. So I cheated a little bit. I cheated a little bit. You know what?

I'm going to say, what I'm going to say is, guys, please keep during these difficult lines. Please keep supporting writers and media and content and stuff that you like. It's great that the UFC is back, and a lot of us are back in full force, but definitely support people, especially my man James Lynch here, who is just, the guy does not stop. I mean, I know it's my 30 seconds, but I do want to ask James, man, what outlets are people, can people find all your interviews on right now?

Because, again, I'm making a broad point, not just about you and me, but there's so many good talents out there. And again, it's really tough times for everyone. And, you know, people, support who you like. I know we don't agree with everyone's opinions. I just started doing more Sunday columns for our website. And believe me, I'm hearing it. People's mad. So, yeah, I do want to give a little bit of time to James just say, man, what is up?

And where can they find you? Because they got to support people like you and all this other great interviewers and writers out there. Well, I really appreciate that. And you're definitely living up to the stereotype of being Canadian. So that's good, despite what your shirt says. glad to see the Canadians are, you know, getting our stereotype there. But no, I really appreciate it. Easiest thing to do is just follow me on Twitter at Lynch on sports.

I work for a number of different outlets. I'm going to be putting stuff on all types of different platforms. So we'd be here all day if we had to list all them literally. Like, it's even more of a big list than last time I went freelance. So I'm just trying to keep the lights on and continue to provide some awesome content. So that's pretty much it on my end. But thank you, though. I really appreciate that.

Madman. James Lynch, madman. What a friendly way to cap off an intense battle on between the lengths. James. long running champion, longest reigning champion in the history of this of the show. I know it's not a huge run, but it's been pretty damn impressive. And you have an open invitation to return and get your immediate rematch anytime you would like. Alex, congratulations on becoming the champion.

What an episode this has been. Hopefully we have this much to talk about on next week's show. But we get you covered on MMA fighting with all things fight island. The Brazilian beast is out there just crushing it on the island right now. So make sure you follow him on Twitter, Gwee, Cruz. I believe there's three Zs at the end of that. So give him a fall and then check out all our coverage on MA fighting YouTube, all that,

and so forth and so on. So for James Lynch, for Alex Kaley, our new champion for E. Casey Lide in the truck, Estrelin on the graphics. I am Mike Heck. We'll see you back here next Monday. Actually, it'll come out Tuesday, but we're recording on Monday.

Leave me alone. We're going back between the links next week, for God's sake. See you later. This has been Between the Links with your host, Mike Heck, brought to you by Eminem. A Fighting, a production of Vox Media. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.