MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Israel Adesanya's Performance, Brandon Moreno's Moment, Leon Edwards vs. Nate Diaz Fallout

Episode Date: June 18, 2021

This week on Between the Links, host Mike Heck is joined by BTL champion Phoenix Carnevale and interim champ Jed Meshew to discuss Israel Adesanya’s successful title defense against Marvin Vettori in the main event of this past Saturday’s UFC 263 event in Glendale, Ariz., Brandon Moreno submitting Deiveson Figueiredo in the third round of the co-main event to become the UFC flyweight champion and if the promotion should rebook the trilogy fight next, the stocks of Leon Edwards and Nate Diaz following their five-round battle, and the best of the rest in the world of MMA from this past week. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Phoenix Carnevale: @microphonephoen Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-by journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. On M.M.A. Fighting Studios, this is between the links. your host, my... Yes, indeed. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn

welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MMAFighting.com. Hope this week finds you well. Thank you for joining us, and man, is there a lot to talk about this week. UFC 263 was pretty wild, left us with plenty of storylines to discuss, storylines that we will dive into this week on the program.

It is a big matchup this week, ladies and gentlemen, So let us get right into it. Let us say hello to the interim. BTL champion looking to take that interim and turn it into undisputed, although he might be a little down in the dumps after the fight circus news. That event got delayed yet again. So will he be a little distracted this week? Will his takes be a little colder than usual?

Let us find out. So welcome back MFA fighting's Jed Meshu to the program. Hi, Jed. You're all right, buddy? So with a heavy heart that I'm here today, I had every intention of talking trash about how I have more interim title defenses than the champion has actual title defenses. But I just can't because my boys, my boys, they had to push off again. And we are once again, like, denied the phone booth, not Muay Thai, phone with left way fight. And that is no longer happening this weekend.

And I don't know, I don't know if I'm going to be able to shake it, honestly. He's, you know, the champs, he's getting a wounded animal, but maybe that's the most dangerous one. Fair enough. And, you know, maybe Fight Circus will turn that phone booth fight into something even more exciting. They up the stakes the second time around. Maybe the third one will be even crazier. So we'll have to keep our eyes on that as we welcome back the undisputed BTL title holder.

She went through the BTL 50 gauntlet and most would say, you know what, I've accomplished everything I've wanted to. I can't do it any better than this. Thanks for the cheese. I'm out of here, but not this individual. She returns to the show to defend her crown. Phoenix Carnivali, Phoenix, welcome back. How are you? I'm good, and we had a great weekend.

So what a better way to kick that off, but to talk about some amazing fights and some of the most captivating people we've seen on the card in a while. That is a very true statement. And we're going to get right into it and discuss those tastings. makers, if you will. We will start with the main event from this past Saturday night in Glendale, Arizona. UFC 263, capped off by Israel Adasania's successful title defense against Marvin Vittori, pitches a shoutout, was in very little danger throughout the fight. And at first,

Marvin seemed to think he won the fight, which I honestly hoped he would continue with and run with that for the rest of his career and say he was 2 at O against Adasania. But alas, he landed on just kind of having an issue with the overall scoring in the fight. So regardless, Izzy wins the fight, 50-45s across the board. So Jedbyshu, we'll begin with you, sir. How would you grade the last style Bender's performance on Saturday night? It's a B? I mean, first, I want to say I agree with you, Mike.

If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly, Marvin, Tori. You know, go all in on the absolutely ridiculous nonsense that is. Go full trail sun with it and be like, yeah, man, I won every round. That should have been 50-45 the other way. I almost submitted him with that R&C. Like, just absolutely the worst thing you could do is be like, I think I won. But really, I'm just mad that I didn't win more rounds. Like, get out of here with that nonsense.

As far as, is he good? I mean, it's hard to knock a man for putting up 50-45s over a legitimate title contender. But I don't know. Maybe it's just that we're seeing more because, you know, It's hard to be a long-reigning champion. It's hard to be at the top of the division. I saw nothing to make me think Robert Whitaker will beat him when they rematch. But I did see plenty of ways to attack Israel-Ad-Sania after that.

I mean, he consistently got backed up to the fence, and Vittori just couldn't do anything with it. His entire game plan was focused on getting the takedown. And that is where Adasania is really good at defending takedowns is with his back up against the cage. But if instead Votori did some of it, other things if he attacked the body more. If he kicked back with Adasania, I think he could have had a lot more success and made it an uglier fight

as opposed to just really getting lit up, like not lit up, but just teed off on. And so, you know, hard for me to say whether this is a consistent thing that we're going to see from Adasanya moving forward, but he really has become far less willing to open up with his own offense. he's really turning into that Anderson Silva. I'm strictly looking to state defensively savvy encounter.

And I mean, that strategy did not work out for him against Jan Belhovic. Obviously, Jan has a lot of size. But straight up, I think the biggest takeaway I had is I know they would never fight, but if Kamar Usman bumped up to middleweight to go for a second belt, I would favor him to beat Adasani after that performance on Saturday. What do you think, Phoenix? Jed's given Adasanya B. Where does your grade fall on?

I give him an A and I also want to give Jed an A for making that Kamaro Usman comment because I think oh, I never even thought of that and how interesting would that be. But I think the reason I give Izzy and A is because of sort of the martial arts

nerddom that he has and just watching him grow and expand each fight because a lot of the questions that people had coming into this matchup was like, okay, Vittori is a big strong guy. No, he's not a weight class up like we saw about Blahovic, but he's a big strong guy. He's a great wrestler. How's Izzy going to fare against that? And we did see a lot of that defense. And I think what impresses me about Izzy, besides, you know,

yeah, we had one Romero fight that was a little lackluster, but we do see evolution in his game. We do see sparks of greatness, things that if he continues on this path, he will be in goat conversations. You know what I mean? And I find a lot of the things about him that are intriguing are that martial arts nerddom, that ability to take from each experience grow and expand. And I find that really interesting about him. I like the Whitaker fight because we haven't seen him really, really, really, really challenged since that Kelvin Gaskillen fight, right, where we were super excited, where Izzy was in danger. And the narrative is there because Whitaker is no longer or sort of the gatekeeper until who's next for Izzy.

He's now the guy who is next for Izzy. And before he was knocking him off, he knocked Till out of that conversation. When we were kind of excited about, you know, about Till, until he hasn't even fought in a year. So it's interesting. I think it does create more of a narrative.

You do get to see, okay, Izzy belongs in this division. He looks good here. This is where he can pull off the best defense, you know, against good wrestlers. But like,

anything. The name is style bender. Eventually for every fighter there is a style that becomes more difficult. Who's going to put him on the back foot? Who's going to pressure him? Who's going to have that explosive wrestling that he can't counter and figure out? I felt that at points

Votori was very one-dimensional and that is basically what won is he the fight too? Was that he was able to figure him out and continue to play the game. It wasn't broke. No need to fix it. And that's what won him in the fight. And I also think that's what makes him a good martial artist.

Yeah, I think part of Adasani's performance was that I think he expected Marvin Vittori to be much more angry. Like, we were looking for angry Marvin Vittori and he was able to stay somewhat composed. I think we were all hoping for that tornado of destruction that just didn't appear in this fight. And Adi just kind of like had to change game plans sort of mid-fight and the fight ended the way that it ended. But he gets on the microphone, he calls out Robert Woodhiker, great promo afterwards.

And obviously, that is the fight. to make. And I know we've discussed this on this show before, actually before the Vittori fight was made, but we just saw Izzy bounce back from his first pro loss. He looks pretty darn good in there. So my question is Phoenix. I know Jed kind of touched on this. I'll have him elaborate a little bit more, but did seeing Adasani's performance on Saturday make you feel like Robert Whitaker has more of a chance in this fight than maybe you thought he would? I think what I love about Robert Woodger is the same thing that I love about Israel Adasanya is sort of evolution and these things about martial arts that make us interested in not just storylines, but in fighters and what they can do.

We had enough of a storyline with Whitaker with, you know, him needing a break. And scientifically, it's very, very true that your adrenaline sort of runs out a certain point. You got to, body gets filled with inflammation. You lose passion and drive because you, you're on low grade recovery mode and you keep pushing yourself. So now if he's fully recovered, You know, he's that martial artist. He likes to figure things out too. He does a lot of his talking in the cage. I think we could find that those glimpses of what we liked about the Kelvin Gasolm fight, right?

Is that somebody who's going to fight whom and who's really going to try to win and someone who does adjust. Someone who does adjust. And I just think about Whitaker and Romero and how impressive he was to me there and how dangerous Romero was at that time. And I'm still interested because, you know, who doesn't love, I love. love Bobby Knuckles. So it's a good matchup either way. Yeah, I love the fight. This is the only fight to make at this point. So Jed, you had an answer before the Vittorio fight was booked. It was after Whitaker's win over Kelvin Gastilum. After watching Adasania, do you feel like Whitaker has more of a chance than you did a couple months ago when you were up against Drake Riggs on the show?

Who's that? Drake Riggs? I don't recall that question. And no, I don't. I agree. It's a fight to make it's a good fight. I think Bobby Knuckles has a chance, but it's, I think it's pretty low, if we're being honest. Like, it's stylistically a tough road to hoe for him. The ability for Adasania to maintain distance, like Whitaker really makes a lot of hay in his distance management, and Adasania is just straight up better at that. And so that's really, like, that as the starting point is difficult. I mean, I think we're going to see a lot of. better fight, a longer fight, a more competitive bout, where Whitaker will get to do some things because he is not going to come in. And with honestly, their first fight, it was like one of the

worst fights Robert Whitaker's ever had. Like, he just had a perplexingly bad game plan and ran himself on to counter shots over and over until he was unconscious. We're not going to see that. We will probably see him mix his wrestling a little more and maybe try some other things. I just think it's a really uphill fight for him if Adasanya has turned on at all. So, you know, I don't think that he has a better chance than I thought he had a couple of weeks ago. That chance remains about the same. It's there. He is not a zero sum to get it done.

But I would be pretty surprised if Adasania, you know, wasn't at least able to outpoint him over five rounds if Whitaker comes with a little more cautious of a game plan. or, you know, we know that Adasanya has the ability to knock Robert Whitaker out. And so that's still on the table as well. I just don't see a great path to victory for Whitaker other than fighting the perfect fight. And I don't see that happening because the man lost. I know Phoenix said, you know, she's impressed by it. Man lost twice to Y'O. Romero. He's like the third best middleweight in the world.

We just forget about Yowell and how great he is because he's the uncrown champion. He beat Izzy too, but that's fine. He's in Bellatory now. He is. He is. And last thing on this, because every show you let's do, everyone's talking about, you know, the hunt for Anderson Silva's middleweight goat status. We're not going to talk about that here because one thing I found very interesting in the

build to this fight and the aftermath of this fight is there's one name that usually gets attached to Israel out of Sanya that wasn't mentioned at all in the build and the aftermath of this fight. and that is John Jones, who is on his way up to heavyweight. And from speaking with one of his coaches, Brandon Gibson, last week, it doesn't seem like that's going to be changing anytime soon. It seems like John's going to keep building his body. He's sticking up there. So, Jed, can we officially say that this fight between Jones and Otisania,

this quote-unquote dream fight? This is no longer a thing. We're never going to see it. It's never going to happen. Yeah, that's gone, man. That was gone the minute Yanni Blako did the damn thing. That dropped off the face of the earth. And I feel a little dumb because there was a time when I actually thought that maybe Izzy could have had something for John.

I do not believe that is the case anymore after watching that fight. Even though I don't think John's nearly as good as he was at his peak, one takedown in that. That's a ballgame there. So, yeah, that fight's over. And we really need to put all of our hope eggs or crystal power or whatever it is into the John decides that he wants to fight for less. than he wants to fight for because I was going to say that he gets a good deal. But we know John's not getting a good deal. He's not going to get paid what he deserves.

We just need to hope that he accepts less money than he deserves so we can watch John versus Nganoe because that's the fight. What do you say, Phoenix? Is the dream over, Adasania Jones? We're just never, we're even going to ever talk about this again or is this the last time it's ever going to be spoken about? I don't think it's happening unless like Izzy pulls a John and takes a year and a half off to gain weight. There's three reasons

why I don't think Izzy can pull it off, and it really just has to do with biomechanics. John's range, John's strength, John's take downs. They're just not the same weight class, and especially now with John going up. If they were equal in

size and they were both in the same weight division, I would say, like, maybe Izzy has a chance because he has more diversity in his striking at this point. You know, and John is kind of plated on the safer side, as of late, but I don't know

what he's going to do at heavyweight. I just think unless as he decides to like gain that muscle and build it and change, which might change him. So there's plenty of fights, fantasy fights that we've had in our love of MMA.

Like we used to fantasize about St. Pierre and Anderson Silva. Lots of things never materialized. So I wouldn't be upset. I just hope Jones and Ghana Let's just hope Jones and Ghanu is not on that list. What, Chad? That's it.

It probably is. But quick question just to ask both of you because I have a very clear thought in this. Let's say that Habib fought Isarad Asanya. Who do you take to win that fight? Oh, man. Because I'm taking Habib like, and it's not even close. I think Hibib wrecks him. Straight up.

Like, I think that's a bad fight for Izzy. I've thought that for years And I really feel it after watching Saturday I think I have to devote some time to this Have you feel like Around around the same weight as Izzy does That's interesting It's just range striking

You know You just can't get taken down And I don't know I don't know I don't have a clear answer Isn't that wild though That like nobody's super confident that the middleweight champ would have beaten the lightweight champ, that's pretty insane.

That is pretty insane. Yeah. Well, that was the main event. It was a good moment for Israel-A-Sanya, but it pales in comparison to what happened in the co-main event in terms of memorable moments. We will discuss that next. But the point for round one goes to, I'm going to explain this because this is a Phoenix round until Jed asked the crazy question that blew my mind.

And so with that said, Jed is on the board, one to nothing. I get it. I understand. The end of the round takedown right there. Just got to secure it. You were like Nadez. You were like Nadez. Who we will talk about in a few moments?

But we move ahead to the brand new flyway champion of the world. Brandon Moreno, he goes out there in the rematch from one of the fights of the year last year. It dominates Davis of Figurato from the opening second of the fight. submits him in the third round and what a moment it was. The crowd in Arizona goes absolutely insane. And it's always nice to see one of the really good guys in the sport accomplishes goals, accomplishes dreams. And that was a moment, honestly, that I'm never going to forget.

So, Phoenix, we will begin with you. What was your reaction to Brandon Moreno going out there, upset and figgy and become the flyway champion? I'm going to take up my media hat off for this, okay? And just talk as a fan. I cried. I like definitely cried, especially with his speech at the end. These are moments in sports as a fan that stick with you. You know, you remember watching this.

You remember watching somebody won. And I think it definitely affected me in a way because I had seen him after he had gotten cut from the UFC and he came into the LFA and he had won the LFA championship. And I was talking to him backstage. I'm like, you know, cut from the UFC and now they're going to cut that division. you know, what are you going to do? And he just had this look like, I don't know, but he was very determined. Like he knew he was going to be a champion somewhere. He knew that there was no quitting him to stop fighting. He was training like a beast, you know, even though it was the

LFA. He was figuring that in a way, maybe this would get his way back. So I had watched this person at the brink of that, then get there and then accomplish this thing. And it was just like this great moment. Like Charles Oliva had that moment too, like jumping on on, you know, on top of the cage and just the crowd reacting to him. These are those great moments in sports. I forget the quote exactly is sometimes you read the news to see man's fault, but you read the sports page to see man's victories. And I always found that really interesting.

And it was just a great moment, especially what he said towards the end. And I know that we can talk about the weight cutting with fig and all that stuff. But just to forget that for a second and just look at the evolution of this. guy's career and that never give up attitude like ESPN had played an old clip of him. I may not be champion now, but I will be someday. So I just think that's a great manifestation and it was really inspiring. Jed, what do you think? I felt like even before the fight, if we're talking about like stocks rising in the UFC,

Moreno stock just continued to rise from the press conference, you know, getting shoved and just like his overall demeanor, his confidence, his swag all week. This man just felt like whatever happened on Saturday, like he knew this was going to happen. He was ready for it and it all came together. He wins the fight. He just soaks it all in with his hands on his hips. And then he just sort of reacts to it all. It all hits him at the same time.

But just seeing him go out there and dominate Davis and Figurato, what was your reaction to the performance and him becoming the champion of the world? I mean, how do you not love the story? It's everything Phoenix said, right? I mean, this is a dude who's had a super interesting career. you know, what did he like last picked on tough or something super low, didn't really amount much there, but comes in off a tough. Taps Louis Smolka,

who was like, I think a top 10 dude at the time. And okay, maybe we need to watch out for him. Two puzzling losses and got cut when he shouldn't have. Obviously, like that was just part of the, hey,

we're low-key trying to burn this division to the ground because we don't like fun. And now this, like he, because I mean, let's be honest, he lost in December. Like, he didn't. He got the draw because of the point deduction.

But, like, that was a pretty clear. Moreno, uh, maybe won two rounds. Like, I think it's figgy either won four or three rounds depending on kind of how you view it. And so Moreno lost that fight and coming into this fight, there was no good reason to think anything was different. Like, yeah, he came in real short notice in December, but that wasn't a huge turnaround here. And it just seemed, all right, well. This is going to be the continued reign for Davidson Figurato, you know, 19 and 1 or whatever gaudy record he has. And the guy, he's the dude that the UFC wanted to push.

And then Brandon Marino called a shot, man. He said all the week, too, he's like, yeah, the first fight didn't have enough time. I now know that I can get punched in the face by this dude and it's not going to like blow me up. And that's what he did. Like he took some shots. He got into brawls when he needed to. he fought up like a no perfect fight. It was an unbelievable performance from him.

And then, yeah, watching him at the end when he's just kind of staring down at the belt, like he can't actually believe that this happened, even though he clearly believed it was going to happen the whole time. Like, that's some moving shit, man. It's insane to think that this division was almost extinct a couple of years ago. And it's insane to really think about some of the things

we would have missed on with like Suhudo and everything that he became, and then Figurado, given the division, an even bigger boost after Sohudo vacated the title. We had the fight of the year contender, and then what, Jed? What? All right, so if the division actually goes away,

T.J. Dillershaw might still be your freaking Bannonweight Champion. Like, straight up. Yeah. We're rabbit-hulling in a big way. It is. All this happening, we would have missed out on the first fight between Moraine. and Figurato. And then this moment with Moreno on Saturday winning the belt. So it kind of leads me to this, Jed, what do we do next? Because Figurato, as you've said many times in the show, he has done a lot

for this division. And like you said, if the point deduction didn't happen in the first fight, and let's also talk about one judge scoring the fifth round for Brandon Moreno. And if that judge scored the fight, like every single other person watching that fight scored it and gave the fifth round of Figurato, the rematch doesn't even happen. So we saw what happened. So we saw what happened. happen on the scale Friday, as Phoenix sort of alluded to. And would that fight have gone any different with the healthy cut? I don't really know. But do they run this one back, Jed? Or since it appears Asker Ascroft's fighting Alex Perez on July 31st, does Moreno get the winner of that? Does Figgi move up to 35? What do you think is the next move for Moreno, for Figurato, for this

division? So I think what they're going to do, and probably what is correct, is the winner of Asker Asker of Alex Perez. I mean, honestly, that was a straight-up ass kicking. And even in like a split situation like we sort of have in this one, like I just never have loved immediate rematches like in this instance. Like let Figuero get a win, except for he doesn't need to get a win because I think he is maybe coming to the realization that everybody else knew that he just needs to be a 135er. Honestly, his game is pretty well suited to that division.

sure that division is filled with an absolute murderers row of human beings, but he can't reasonably make the wait. He's missed it several times. Even when he makes it, it looks like he is at the point of death. So he just needs to move to 135. We need to put, again, all our hope eggs into the Davidson Figurato, Cody Garbrandt, chucking hands at each other until Cody Garbrant goes, boom. And we can just go back to let Brandon Marino build a legacy outside.

is Davidson Figurato. The only problem with that is that if Asker Ascrofts beats Alex Perez and then beats Brandon Moreno, we're going to be right back to the Let's Kill This Division because ain't nobody give two shits about that dude being the champion. So it is a bit risky, but I think that that's probably just the movie make anyway. What do you think, Phoenix? Because there's another name that we haven't mentioned who is fighting on August 21st, who has a very long history with Brandon Moreno.

His name is Alexander Pantoja, who's a name is Alexander Pantoja, who's a different. fighting Brandon Royval in August 21st. So he is a big time player in this conversation as well because of the history of those two guys have. And he's on a nice little run right now. He's coming off the win over Menel Cape. I know he's kind of flip-flopped his last four fights. But is he a player too? Where do you think Moreno goes after that big win on Saturday?

Well, I have to agree with Jed and the fact that there's only a few instances where I like rematches. A rematch is great when that person has worked their way back to you. okay like with the Whitaker situation uh that that person and you had some type of controversy in in the fight or it was close those those are the times i need rematches immediate rematches in this particular case not so much plus if i'm doing business i want to really let this row i really let this morano thing ride for a little bit if i could do something crazy like a superfight in Mexico with a Suhudo, that would be awesome. But who knows if that's even a possibility. I like the Roval versus Pantosia situation because I think it's a little early for Royval

to get up there, even though I love him and I remember him from the LFA. That's definitely an opportunity. I know that nobody's really excited about Oscar, but he's there as well. And then Pantoja has a story. It has a story as a history that fits that rematch scenario that we were talking about. So anyway, you look at it, there's a couple of things that could mix up. But selfishly, I just, I want a little bit more of him. I want to see more of that personality, that star power, and let it build. Yeah, I see people commented that Ascroft should have just gotten the title shot.

from what I understand, that fight between Ascaroff and Perez has been discussed for a while now, even before the title fight happened. So this looked like the direction they were going to go regardless. So it is what it is. There are some options. If he can somehow Will Sohudo back, that would be a massive fight, especially if they could do it in Mexico. But it seems like Moreno is going to take some time, enjoy the win, maybe fight again at the end of the year. Maybe not. We'll see what happens.

But if you did miss it, after the show, go back through the YouTube page, spoke to Bramon. for nearly 30 minutes. It's just great stuff. And if you're having a rough day, Brandon Braynor Moreno's attitude, we'll just put you in a great space and put a smile on your face. So go check that out. But we move ahead to the first of three scheduled five rounders at UFC 263 this past Saturday. The point for round two goes to Phoenix Carnivali has tied it up. It's one to one.

That was a good round. As we move ahead to another massive story that has come out of this event in the Welterweight division, we saw Leon Evans. Edwards take on the returning Nathan Diaz at UFC 263, a five-rounder. And for the first 23 or so minutes of this fight, Leon Edwards looked like the guy who was the biggest favorite on the card. He was dominating Nate, slicing him up. This is one-way traffic until it wasn't.

Nate lands his big combination. Edwards is in big, big trouble. He's on wobbly legs. Clearly the most emphatic moment of the fight. But Edwards survives it. And let me just say this. Let me just say this, because Nate is getting a lot of credit for that moment, as he should. But I want to give a lot of credit to Leon Edwards as well, because most people in this situation,

when they fight Nate Diaz, or in general when you get rocked like that at the end of a fight, you shoot in for a desperation takedown, which usually leads to very, very bad things happening when you fight Nate. Leon didn't do that. He survives, wins the fight. So Jed, we're going to begin with you once again. It's clear that Leon Edwards did not earn himself a title show. He didn't jump Colby Covington in this situation. And frankly, I didn't think the chances were very good that he would

unless he'd knock Nate out in the first minute of the fight. But do you buy into this narrative that Nate Diaz's stock rose more than Leon Edwards is because of those last two minutes of the fight? A hundred percent. And it should. I give Leon no credit at all. He had everything there, man. It was all in front of him.

I'd straight up to think if he wins that fight, doesn't have that last minute, even with a somewhat tepid decision like that was, he still just is going to get the title fight because as much as Dana White wants to say, Colby's are the guy or whatever, Dana White has a history of telling Colby Covington to F off, and Kamar Usman would have just come out and been like, all right, yeah, Leon's the dude. Like, Leon deserves the fight. I would like to fight him. And they're just going to go with that.

Like, he had the opportunity. and he found the one way to win but still screw himself over. Like, that is a tough window to hit, and he threaded the needle perfectly. Nate Diaz deserves all the credit in the world. One, because I had such little expectations for him to do anything, don't get me wrong. I did not enjoy most of this fight. It was pretty awful unless you, like, really like Nate Diaz showing his ass or whatever. But, like, I don't care about that.

I'd prefer to see Nate Diaz, like, try and fight somebody. because when he did that, he almost knocked Leon Edwards the NFL. So, like, Nate doesn't get a lot of credit, but then he saves it all at the end because he put, you know, whatever you think of Leon Edwards, and I think it's pretty clear, my opinion, is that he is a very competent fighter who is probably higher ranked than he really is in truth. Like, Nate Diaz took a straight up top five, top three welterweight, and damn near did the damn thing, despite, you know, having a two-year layoff. and not really being a welterweight and a whole lot of other caveats that came with him. So, yeah, that was awesome from him. And frankly, like, if that didn't happen, the card was not doing super hot at that point. Like, you're coming off the Balal Muhammad.

Like, no disrespect, that is a good win. But Damien Maia doesn't make anybody look good ever. And then Leon spent 20 minutes, like, not finishing Nate when he could. could have tried to do more. So Nate doing that saved the middle of the card and really served as a great setup for the two title fights, which were mostly great. What do you think, Phoenix? Does Leon Stock rise at all in your mind?

Like, I feel it rises a little, one, because it got the win and two, because, and they mentioned it, and you could tell in the broadcast that, you know, Rogan and Felder were doing everything they could to, like, let people know who Leon Edwards was and how good he was and the streak he's been on because no one really knows who he is for some reason. And he got sort of the Nate rub. But do you feel like his stock rose at all? I think it really depends on who you ask, because I've thought a lot about this. I was talking to my friends who were really into MMA out in the UK, and they love Leon Edwards.

And they've been missing him and wanting him to come back. And they were giving him that credit, which I understand this. It was reminiscent of when GSP almost got knocked out by Carlos Condit and like kept his faculties and stayed in the fight. And I really thought that was kind of interesting. And I was like, wow, you know, their UK fans, they have a much bigger respect for Leon Edwards, right? That's their countrymen. We're here in the U.S., Nate Diaz is like when you watch a movie and there's that funny stoner comic relief that you love that always steals the show. That's who he is.

He's still exciting. We still want to see him in money fights. Is he going to want to go for a championship? No. But you put him with the right type of matchup and you're like, yay. Nate Diaz. So it's, it's, it's almost like a, like a taste thing. You know, if you like more refined meal, then, you know, that you're going to like Leon Edwards, if you're like, hey, I want hot dogs and French fries and we're at the ballpark and we're stoners, then you're going for that

Nate Diaz because you're going to be thoroughly entertained. You know, even, you know, the way that he speaks, okay, fine, but he actually says some really intelligent stuff. There's a lot of things you can do in Nate Diaz that people will still want to see. And of course, if somebody's losing and out of nowhere, they have a glimpse of hope to win where they're the underdog, you're going to get behind that no matter who you are. So his stock, Diaz's stock definitely rose. Now you're like, oh, let's put him against a Ferguson or maybe the Connor rematch. So we're talking about all the things to do with him.

Unfortunately, we haven't fallen in love with Leon Edwards because he's not hilarious. You know, yes, he's talented, but it's not something out of the orange. like he just throws a flying sidekick out of nowhere that you're just going to be like oh crazy highlight reel it's just he's good he's good and he's steady so it really just kind of depends on who you ask he's going to get there though because he's proven himself to continue to keep winning so he's going to get there no matter what jad when i asked that question you were laughing why uh because you said for some reason people don't know Leon Edwards like because Because why should you? If you're not deep in the game, like, you're not going to know this, dude.

Look at what's his best win? Mike, please tell me what his best win is. Because he's got a lot of good names, but none of whom are good wins. Like, they're not, oh, damn, like, you can't put together a Leon Edwards highlight reel. It does not exist. Like, so why is everyone going to know him? Like, I, remember when he took a split decision over Gunner Nelson? That's a hard fought good win. sweet. That's it. Like that's just, this man, I disagree with Phoenix. I don't think he's talented at all. I think he works his ass off and has built a compote,

like a game that works well together. But like he's like if you took all the athleticism and power and finishing ability of Tyron Woodley and just removed it from Tyra. Like that's where you get Leon Edwards. Like he's very defensively sound and he is technically proficient, but he is not super threatening. He is going to go to decision and he's got helicardio, so that's great. But like, you don't build a brand off that.

And it things sucks. He's got the dope Birmingham accent. Like, if he was a more interesting person, he could also just like make it work because there are people who are not super fun fighters, but figure it out. Like Floyd, manwether sucks to watch unless you are really, really into like super technical stuff for boxing. But he has a persona and people kind of work with it. Like, Leon could do something.

The Birmingham accident alone should get him fans, and nobody outside of his family cares about him. And I'm just saying that's on him, not on anybody else. Okay, all right. I'll just say this. If you put him against a Masvedal with the beef that they had, and they start going at each other in like a press conference, I mean, you don't think that would make it a little bit more fun

if he had a matchup that fans found more exciting? I don't know. Nate Diaz is pretty good at making things fun and still it wasn't suit like that exciting. Yes, that's a better choice than like, I don't know who Neo Magni would be like the worst fight that's ever been created. But like, so yeah, you're doing better in that regard

because Mastvedal is going to get a reaction. And maybe because he hates Mastred he might like try to throw more than tepid offense. But otherwise, like he's probably just going to wrestle Mastved all to a bad five round split decision. and then everyone's going to hate him. Like, that's, he's just, some people, this is just their lot in life. And unless Leon makes like a big career pivot, this is just who he is.

And it's okay. It is okay to just be one of the best fighters in your division. Like, but you're going to play hell getting a title shot that way. So you don't feel, Jed, that he gets the winner of Usman Covington at that fight? Like, who else is there? Like, who else is the guy? Like, it's kind of, he's kind of an interesting spot because. If Wonderboy beats Gilbert Burns coming up, he gets the next title shot.

And he damn sure deserves it, frankly, over Leon at that point. Like, if Burns wins, then maybe, like, maybe he just slides in there. But I honestly, they may just make him fight one more. Like, it might be like, hey, man, you, your last two fights, he would have been better served just not fighting Belal Mohan and Nate Diaz at this point. Like just, hey, you have an eight-fight win streak. Hope that gets you there. Instead, his last two fights are a no contest that arguably should have just been DQed about.

And then that Nate Diaz thing, like he's, he is going down right now from his cue rating. So he may end up having to fight like Gilbert Burns and Burns beats Thompson. And if not, he may just have to take another one because that's, it's, I just don't see them throwing him a title shot now. What do you think, Phoenix? Like, is he next? Like, not Colby next, but like after that, like, he could sit and wait and maybe he does get that shot. Or he can risk it all and take another fight. I don't know if he's going to get the Mazadol fight.

I think that's if he's going to, if they offer him that and Mazadol's in, I think it's a no-brainer you take that fight because there, again, you get more eyeballs on you. But should he just wait and hope that he gets a title shot or does he need another fight against, you know, Mazda or even if he wants to fight in London, just to fight in front of his home crowd, he at least gets another fight and he's not waiting another year to fight. That's a conversation he's going to have with his manager. Do I want to make myself more popular before I go for a title so I can get more money out of the situation? Yes.

Okay, you should fight Mossvedal. Do I want to do this in England? When's that going to happen? When can we go there? Okay, I'll wait. Do I have a couple student loans and some kids to pay for? Okay, let's fight right now. Like it's really going to be that conversation that you have with your manager based off of your career goals because let's face it, this is also a career for them. This is how they pay their bills majority of the time. So it has to be a lot about that. So for like example, let's say he wants to wait for, you know, whoever wins Usman Covington and then one of them get hurt and they're out six months a year or something like that again. Right. So you're going to have to make that decision of what you want to do next because fighters have to fight.

We know that ring rust is a real thing for certain people. And staying active is really important. And not being active in the first place is what made his stock drop to begin with and made him less popular. Not to his fault or anything. There was like, you know, a pandemic. But it really just kind of depends. You sit down with your manager. You discuss your career goals and what you want to do with yourself, your popularity,

what you can demand, what you can't demand. Because we know that a lot of these things, especially with combat sports, is a popular. popularity contest. It's not like you're the Mets versus the Yankees where you kind of work into each other. This is what happens. If something amazing happens that makes somebody else the next contender, that's the way it goes. Yeah. Okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on one second. That was a very professional answer, but I'm going to I'm going to extend it a little more for you, Phoenix. What if you are his manager? You are now Leon Edwards' manager. What are you advising him to do? you know listen i'd say is this all about your heart that you want to be champion or do you want to be

a fighter that people remember fall in love with because there's plenty of people that we're in love with that'll never be champions that that get money fights Nate diaz for example right and this one didn't do it for you so i think you'd fight masvedal and you and you make yourself more popular and you get out there but if you're You're the type of fighter who doesn't care about that, who just wants to be champion because that's what you need to prove to yourself. That's what you are. There's athletes, there's entertainers, there's entertainer athletes.

Like, Adasanya is an entertainer and an athlete. It doesn't mean that he's less of an athlete. It just means that the limelight, the spotlight's his thing. And he works that well as a champion. So if Edwards is like, I don't care about any of that, I just want to be champion, he waits it out. that's just how it looks to me what are you going to say jed

he can't wait it out like he just Thompson beats burns he's going to jump him and we also nobody mentioned luke and kieza aside from that fight being fire hot hot fire

the winner of that whoever wins that's probably going to win it impressively like that's not going to be like luke is going to take his head off or kieza's going to tap lukea and if kesa taps luka that's four or five in a row at Walterway, like, he's jumping Edwards too. Like, he just has to fight again.

So if I was managers and be like, hey, man, it'd have been a lot of cool if you hadn't jacked up the whole program at the end of the Nate fight, but that's a room we can't live in anymore. So you need to try and pick a fight with Ori Mastradol because it is not a guarantee that Mospital takes that fight. Like, that's again the same like high risk, low reward fight for Mastphidal. like Leon might straight up be in a position where he just has to fight Belal Muhammad again. Like that's, that is on the table for him.

If he doesn't get real mouthy, real quick and stir up some interest and make things happen for him, he's got to fight again, though. All right. I wasn't going to mention this, but I'm going to do it now just because we're getting fiery here. We have opinions on this. So I want to flip the page to Nate Diaz for a minute because I said something on On to the next one with AK, and I wanted to get your reactions to this because, look, Nate is a star. He creates buzz.

He's kind of always in a win-win situation. He doesn't need to win. His stock will always rise. And Leon still, no matter how you felt, got the rub. And I know Fandosay is commenting like crazy, mostly on Jed's hair. But Leon still got the rub no matter what because he fought Nate and he was in there for five rounds and he won. So my take was, although he's not the best fighter in the UFC, he is far from the best fighter in the UFC, I thought that Nate Diaz is the most valuable fighter on the roster because of what I just said about Nate's stock always rising no matter what, but he is able to put over and give shine to literally anybody he fights. He makes good money, but he's not making Connor money.

He's not even making Mazadol money at this point. So the amount of eyeballs that this guy generates is worth his pay and he boosts the stock of himself and anybody around him. Am I nuts, Phoenix, for thinking that Nate Diaz is the most valuable fighter on the roster? I wouldn't say the most valuable, but I would say he's a superstar. I would say he's up there. Just like I said, he steals the show. He's entertaining. The thing about, I think, the three fighters on 263, I don't even know where we are.

anymore that make that everybody's in love with them is they're legit themselves adasanya is himself brandon merino is himself he's sincere nate dyes is the most this is who the f i am person right this is what we love them so i think a lot of this like being sincere saying what whatever the hell's in your mind lighten up and smoking in the he's the snoop dog of the ufc okay like even if he's got an album and there's one hot song in it, you play in that song to death. That's who he is. He is valuable because he is sincere. He's uniquely his own. He's hilarious. And he's a hell of a good fighter. Okay. Like they brought up the idea of Damien Maya. Now, that doesn't get me going for a UFC event, but it does like in a like a grappler's quest or, you know, a high rollers. Hell yeah,

I want to see that fight. And then like Tony Ferguson, style versus style against Nate Diaz, you don't want to see that fight. So he's not going to get to the top for the title, but he's going to be entertaining depending on who you put him with when it comes to styles. So he's a star. He's a superstar.

Even Nick, like, how long are we going to keep talking about Nick? We keep talking about next few years, you know, but we just can't let these guys go because of those hot albums they've had. And we keep playing them songs over and over again, because they're catchy and they're fun. Where do you put Nate's value, Jed? I just, and I'm not saying, like, I'm not saying he's like the best fighter. Like I said, he's far from it.

He's not the MVP of the UFC, but in terms of like value, what he brings to the table, he gets paid a good amount of money, but he's not the highest paid. He's far from being the highest paid. What he gives to everybody that he's around, the guys he fights. Is he the most valuable fighter on the roster? Like when he fights anyways? No, it's Connor. It's always been Connor.

That's just not even close. Like he's up there. Nate is, I don't know, probably second or third. I venture to say in that. But Connor, aside from Connor generating, like I know he gets paid a lot,

he also like generates way more money than anybody else. And so they're still coming out plus in that particular calculus. But Connor is a kingmaker. Like you beat Connor McGregor. You're somebody. because when you beat Connor McGregor, you beat him impressively. When you beat Nate Diaz, you kind of look like shit afterwards, which Leon Edwards just found out.

Like, he is a hard dude to look good against because even if you are looking good technically, it's not like something that a casual person is like, oh, well, yeah, that guy really got worked. Like, when Connor loses, it is spectacular when he goes down. And like, I mean, Dustin Porreier knocked him out and now, Dustin Poirier is, he's, he's a huge thing. Habib just beat the brakes off him and he became, you know, probably the second biggest star in the sport behind Connor. Like, Conner's value is not just the money he brings, which is more than Nate.

He, it is the money he brings when he loses because he boosts somebody up so, so grandly. So, no, it's Connor all day. But yeah, Nate is right on up there. And because I know we're about to move on to the next question and I just want this to be thrown out there. The very clear thing that you do with Nate is, and you know my view on Nick Diaz and how he's never going to fight again, you do Nick and Nate Diaz versus the Paul brothers in a boxing match and you sell four million paper views. Somebody make that happen. I will buy it six times. Like a two on two? No, just, you know, main event co-main. I mean, two-on-two would be great,

but come on, that's circus stuff. They're not going to do that. But Maine and Co-Mane, Like, that's a lot of money generated, and we would all watch the hell out of that. Of course we would. It'd be the most intelligent press conference we've ever seen in our lives. How could we miss it? It'd be wonderful. But what a wild scene. It would do a lot.

It would do a lot. And I think everybody's website would do incredible traffic. But a wild scene in Dean and Glendale, both men will move on to their next challenge. We shall move on to the fourth. final round of regulation. The point for round three goes to, again, Jed with the late surge, gets it done. Two to one. I studied Robbie Lawler a lot, like late career Lawler, when he no longer like had really the gas tank to go, but he would just do like spurts of violence at the beginning and end of rounds to really solidify it in the judge's minds. Nicely done. Ruthless Jedmishu.

Jose Youngs, I don't even know how I can deal with these comments. they keep flashing up to just get better and better. But UFC. Who's gotten to work for me like six times? Oh, man. So, okay, we're moving on from UFC 263 is a massive event. But there are a lot of other things that happen in MMA outside of 263. PFL had their event a week ago.

They got an event going on right the second as we're speaking. They're back. And I don't even know what's happening right now. Belator 260 happened. We got a new Welchway champion, Yaroslav. Amosoff defeats Douglas Lima and Victor had their Phoenix series tourney and a whole bunch more. So let me ask you, Phoenix Carnivali. We talked about Nate Diaz and his value.

We're extending it to more of an MVP type conversation. Who is the MVP of the week that was an MMA outside of UFC 263? Who is the best of the rest and why? I mean, it would be hard for me not to bring up Clarissa Shields. and I also really was impressed with the trajectory of Aaron Pico. But I'm going to give it to Clarissa because out of all these sort of transitions from boxing to MMA, you know, as somebody who studies the sport and, you know, studies the arts, it's, it was really cool to see her talk about the training for fighting and the transition from boxing. to MMA and then the honesty of her post-fight interview really was amazing to me. She had to come to this acceptance like, Klercia, you might lose this fight.

You could possibly lose this fight. But just having that no-quit attitude to get it done no matter what, especially after two rounds of reality that, you know, this is new for you and this is really hard and training five times a day, you know, I thought that was exceptional. And also, too, it's like leading up to this point where you know she's going to wind up with the, you know, Olympic judoka who's, okay, Kayla Harrison, who's had to go backwards. She had to go from grappling to striking. And now Clarissa has to go from striking to adding the grappling. And not just striking in general, but I've seen plenty of boxers try to learn to kick.

And you're like, oh, you're going to need a lot of practice. with kicking, you know what I'm saying? So there's just such, such a variety in what you have to do in MMA and to pick it up as quickly as she is picking it up. We'll see what happens. I mean, I think it's going to take a lot of time, but you can kind of see where this is going, right? With these two people who came from individualized sports who are now trying to do MMA and are really kind of the starlets of the PFL because the PFL was pushing all of that promotion really hard. I liked it. I enjoyed myself.

Yeah, I think if the PFL had their way, they would put that trajectory on at some point, maybe in a couple of years, but I have a hard time believing they're going to be able to keep Kayla unless they can pay her just a ridiculous amount of money and give her some competition. I don't want to see those two near each other anytime soon. But what do you think, Jed?

Yeah, what do you think, Jed? I mean, Clarissa seems to be kind of the easy answer here. No offense, Phoenix. It just was, it just was. But what do you think? Like, is it her or is it somebody else? Well, first, I'd just like to say that I'm so disappointed that Phoenix had, she had the the Invicta Phoenix Adam Waite tournament right there on the table.

Could have had it, just been like, why? How could I not pick this my namesake tournament? So really disappointed in that because shout out, that was probably less fun than I really wanted it to be, but it was still a hell of good time. Like one-night tournaments, even with the unfortunate, you know, one-round starter, like, it's still, it's a condensed, like, linear narrative, and I'm just always going to be here for that. You know, you get a contender out of it at the end.

So shouts to Invictor for that, because that is always a good time. That's not going to be it for me, and it's not going to be Clarissa Shields, who I think everything Phoenix said is right, like, watching her overcome, like, serious adversity with I believe, like a legitimate BJJ Brown Belt. Like that's pretty impressive given how short a time she's really been training MMA for her to come back and do the damn thing. Like that is, it's tough to look good in your debut fight. Like basically nobody ever does unless it's just like a 10 second K.O.

But she did. You know, she fought through a tough spot. So I can see why people would think that or why the argument is there for Clarissa probably grabbed the most headlines. I will also just quickly say Aaron Pico, phenomenal performance. But for me, the MVP of the weekend, I mean, how do you do anything other than Yaroslav Amasov? Like, he's 37 and O or whatever it is. He has the second longest win streak in the history of the sport, like undefeated street behind Habib Nirmagammedev.

Anytime you beat a dude who I think most of us when we were talking about last week believe that Douglas, Lisma is like one of, if not the best fighters outside of the UFC right now. Like he is certainly in the conversation on that short list. And I think we would all, everybody on this program right now would say that he's a top five welterweight in the world. And Yarslav Mousov just dominated him. Like, Douglas was not in that fight realistically at all. And to do that on top of such a gaudy record that he already has to become the first

major to first ukrainian uh champion for for a major in a may promotion like that's that's just really impressive and i for me he he won the hardest fight of the weekend like that was a super close fight or a super close fight on paper he made it look less so in the cage he beat the best opponent he you know did a whole lot of important things and now he's he's a whatever like i said 37 and o undefeated welterweight champion he he There's no chance in hell. Michael Venham Page wants any of that wrestling business, so I don't know who he's going to fight next instead MVP.

Maybe it's Jason Jackson, who also looked good this past weekend. But he's a guy you can build around. If you can just build that same sort of mystique that they did around Habib, and you can get him another big-name guy to tear down and just grind out. So for me, it's Amasov because I want to reward excellence. And he is nothing if not excellent. Yeah, that was a wild scene at Bohegan. I was there, it was Cajside, right near Douglas Lima's corner, and he almost pulled off the miracle arm bar.

That thing was close, super close to happening, but Amosov goes in there and fights out of it and wins the title. But Douglas Lima, from like rounds three and on going back to his corner, it's very rare that you see a fighter, like, kind of lose a piece of himself in frustration. But Douglas Lima was just like, I can't. do anything. Like once I'm down, I can knock it up. Like everything he tried, nothing worked. And it was pretty crazy to watch. But I do want to touch a little bit further on Clarissa Shields because, obviously, like you both said, debut is a massive story, tremendous learning experience for her, just in big trouble the first two rounds, then the come from behind, finish in the third. She has a ton of work to do, but she knows that. She's got a very realistic approach to the game.

But how big is her ceiling in MMA, Jed? Like, I feel. feel like, you know, it obviously grabbed headlines. I feel like she's becoming a bit of a star in MMA this quickly, but like, do you think she could be like a megastar in MMA? Like, can she get to that point? Probably not. Not because anything that is wrong with her. She is, has charisma and clearly can fight, like actually fight, not just box, which is a very different skill set. Uh, she She has a lot of things and she could have a good ceiling in general, but she competes at a weight class that doesn't exist. Like, that's, we just, we're being honest, women's lightweight is not a division that's realistically supported anywhere with the depth of talent that you would need to do that. Like, you're hoping with her, basically her best case scenario is she can become like a Chris Cyborg and build a division around her.

And even Chris Cyborg, who is a legitimate star in the sport, still has had trouble building division that, frankly, is more buildable. So then you're just looking at shields dropping down to featherweight. I have actually no idea how viable that is or not for her. And doing so still, we still come back to the thing. Like, women's featherweight is just not a division that's super well supported anywhere. It should be, and God willing, maybe the UFC will actually put some time in. to building that division. But thus far, nobody has done a great job of that.

And I think that really caps what she can be because you don't become a star mostly on your own. Like she has all the accolades and backstory to do it. But you have to win competitive fights against other people that get people interested in. And there's just not the bodies for that right now. Like Kayla Harrison way down the line, maybe that's the fight that gets it done. But I think she's going to struggle to really become like. like a super household name in that regard.

What do you think, Phoenix? She was clearly the star of the weekend outside of the UFC, but how big can that star get? Well, part of the reason she's the star of the weekend is because it's answering a lot of questions we have about crossover from boxing and combat sports and all that type of stuff and who she is in her own profession. The problem is that MMA is hard, okay? and no arguing with Jed there, he's 100% right.

Not having viable opponents or bodies to work with is difficult. It reminds me of like Angela Hill in the beginning of her career, where she had to take a lot of lumps and she lost a lot in the beginning, really to kind of build herself into a more complete fighter because Angela Hill and I came up at the same time in Muay Thai. I was a commentator and she had had like 13 fights. And then the ultimate fighter came up and she was like, oh my god i need to have at least one fight to be able to apply for the ultimate fighter so she took some

fight like anywhere and then got into the house and it was like man you know a lot of the times you need to incubate you need to have an amateur career you need to develop within that amateur career and then jump to the big leagues so very similar what happened to angela she lost a lot she had to go back to invictus she did well she came back to the ufc she still had some losses and now she's got her groove and every Everybody at the UFC did that, so they allowed her to incubate. So that's probably what's going to happen here. Maybe she does some PFL stuff. Then Belator takes her.

She works there a little bit. Then she builds herself up. Maybe the UFC comes calling it. You don't know. But it's just not going to be overnight. I just think MMA is that hard and that division is not developed enough. I'm hopeful because I think she's a type of athlete that will go after it. And she's saying, you know, she's training five times a day.

but yeah, just MMA is hard. All right. Well, we have wrapped up regulation. We are running out of time. But the point for round four goes to

Phoenix pulled a Jed. She pulled a Jed. She pulled it out the last second. The timing of the crossover is really interesting. Didn't even really like even think about that. But here we are. And that means,

just like everybody wants, this title unification boat is going to the knockar round. One question will decide at all. In fact, I changed the question in my mind 20 seconds ago. But neither of these tremendous competitors have any idea what this question is going to be. They will each have 60 seconds to respond to said question. And once that is done, with the help of our live studio audience, we will turn it over to the honorable E. Casey Liden to render the front.

I'm sorry, I have to interrupt real quick. This is, I'm sorry, this is Casey from the truck. We just got a call. Someone called in, and they have offered their judging services. So I brought them in. So are they ready? Here we go. Okay.

Happy birthday, AK? No. Oh, where are? Is it AK? Who is it? Who is it? Oh, who could it be? Is it Jose?

It's got to be Jose. Why isn't this working? Hold on. This reveal is falling flat on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no worry, don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. Oh, no, now we have, it's going to be exciting. It's going to be exciting. The little camera thing disappeared.

Crap. Hold on. Hold on, hold on. This is good. What? That's what this is. You know what? Yeah.

For those, for those, you know what, the video isn't working, but I'm just going to bring him in right now. Can you, can you chime in, mystery judge? What's going on? How are you guys doing? Oh, man. Oh, Jed. Oh, Jed. Oh, no. Oh, the turntables. The returning, Sean Al-Shadi, ladies and gentlemen, M.M.A. Fighting Zone. Sean Al-Shadi. Back on ETL. In a different variation that we wanted him, but he is here. How are you, Sean?

I'm doing great Casey man that that entrance really didn't work out like we were expected yeah you know but but hey they want to do this live I can't edit this come on man I'm working I'm working on a Google like I book or whatever come on you're killing it you're killing it anyway I am I'm so happy to be here you guys have been killing it all show this is my first time here as guest judge and oh my goodness jed this isn't going to be this isn't going to be good for you my friend to tell you right off the bat. Phoenix, I hope you're doing great today. I am.

Well, now we have Sean here to render the final decision with the help from the studio audience. But Phoenix, you pull rank here. Do you want to answer this question first or do you want to turn it over to Jed? I feel like, you know, he's got a very, very big record.

So I'm going to let Jed do it first. So I can, you know, I can come back with the knockout. Oh. Oh, all right. I like the confidence. And maybe you will be much more confident when you hear this question because I don't think Jed's going to like this one very much. But we'll see what happens.

Walking the deck against me, guys. What the hell? Did you also get fight circus canceled so I'd be coming in here? What is the hell is going on? I mean, listen, I think it's fair that we try to touch on all the happenings in our sport. and one thing we have not touched on yet is UFC Vegas 29 going down this Saturday at the apex.

The main event, oh, there's Sean. He's taking over the whole damn screen now. He went from being a no signal to the whole screen. All right, there we go. Okay, UFC Vegas 29 this Saturday, good main event. We got the Korean zombie versus Danny Gay and Jed. We know better than most that these pay-per-view hangovers are real,

but we're going to try to remain positive as positive as we can. So it is your job for the next one minute, Jedmishu, to sell us on this card. Why should people watch this event? Why should we do it? And now the fight circus isn't on,

this gives you more reasons to sell this thing. So one minute on the clock, your time starts now. You should watch this because what the hell else are you doing on Saturday night? I'm not going to tell you that this is the best card I've ever put together. It is not.

The main event, though, is sensational. So if you're not doing anything else, at least watch that. You don't have to. You can always come to MMAfighting.com and read, you know, our live blogs and our recaps. But you should watch it anyway, because there are some other fights here that are legitimately dope. Diego Lima versus Matt Brown is a banger. When has Matt Brown ever not entertained you? If you said he ever, ever left you wanting, you're a liar. And I'm calling you a liar right now, Sean O'Shtady. He's the most exciting one that's ever put gloves on. He already has a win over Douglas Lima like 27 years ago.

He was way more knockoutable. That's a really fun fight. We're in John DeRoba, Kanako, Murata. That fight is either going to be super sick grappling, like really great exchanges on the ground, or they're both going to forget that and just kind of throw hand, and that'll be fun too. It's a kind of fun card, so you should watch it.

Knockoutable was used and kind of fun card. So, I mean, this is a positive response from Jedmishu as we turn it over to the undisputed BTL champion, Phoenix Carnivali. Same question for you. It is your job now for the next one minute to sell us on UFC Vegas 29 headlined by the Korean zombie versus Dan Igay. One minute on the clock and it starts now. Before we even get into who's on the card, you have to be a more well-rounded fight fan in general. It can't always be about the names because I worked for organizations that were like the conveyor belts into the UFC. And majority of the time, these were extremely hungry fighters.

And we know you've seen Rocky 3. You have to stay hungry. So those beginning fighters, those guys that are building those names always give us the best fights. Time and time again, cards that you didn't expect to be great have been great. Now let me get to the main event. Ege versus Korean zombie. These are two fighters who obviously love to brawl. So even if you're just a casual fan and you don't need to know much,

you could just watch a head-on collision because that is what that fight is going to be. We know that D.K. really wants to get himself to the next is Korean zombie on his way out. He's hard to beat. He's beatable, but he will keep coming at you, hence the clever name. All right. The music was intense. It was intense. Speaking of intense, we will have your coverage for UFC Vegas 29 here on M-A Fighting. We'll have a live preview show tomorrow. I will not be around. I will explain later tomorrow.

It's nothing bad. I'm just playing in a charity golf tournament. There's your explanation. Saturday will have your Q&A, the people's pre-fight show 30 minutes before kickoff time, and then we'll be back with the post-fight show. We might be doing something a little bit different after the fact, too, because we got a crazy boxing match between Anderson Silva. and it's just, I don't even, it's just nuts.

There's so much going on. I know. I thought that was going to be the last question. Me too. It was, but I changed my mind. But apparently there's more desire for this fight than I anticipated. So maybe this idea that we're pondering could be a very good thing on Saturday. But just keep it locked to M.Afighting.com and you'll be happy for it.

So now we turn it on over to the returning Sean Al Shottie. Bang your gavel, my first. friend who wins. All right. So that was really, that was a really competitive, good round. I really liked both of those answers.

Coming into this, I have a very anti-Jad agenda. I'm just putting that out front. But then I was thinking about it and it was like, you know what? Last time I was on the show, I think both of you voted against me.

Both of you. Did I? You definitely did. You definitely did Phoenix. So now, now all of a sudden, my anti-Jad agenda has been wiped out.

Those are both tremendous answers, though. I do have to say, I think Phoenix sold me a little bit more. But Jed, that was still a great argument. But I have to say, the winner is. And still, Phoenix Carnivali! Oh, yes. Wow.

Thank you. But no, all jokes aside, like, I love those cards where they're not stacked cards because there's a lot of knockouts. I mean, it's usually the ratio of what happens. So we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong, but I... name you? Phoenix just

running with a Dana-Wine answer. She just went full Dana-Wite you go watch it and then you can fart

we make fun of Dana for that literally every time he does this and I use get more comfortable

not have every time I have this part and I don't get you with you

talk of that and he'd be like it's a crappy card it's a crappy card and it would be like people I knew

from the LFA and I'd be like okay just wait just wait and it'd always be great. She has a great point. She has a great point. Jed, just, let me just say right away, I had nothing to do with this. I found out about it before the show started, and it is what it is.

But Phoenix, 8-0 now. You are 8-0, still the undisputed champion. You have 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about, good, bad, and different in the sport of MMA. I'm going to be watching PFL the night because I love Rory McDonald's and, you know, he's got actual a little bit more competition this time around than he did Curtis Millinder with Gleason T-Bow so we'll see and you know

follow me on all of the major things like the Instagram and stuff I've got a lot of combat sports stuff coming in the mix hopefully some good announcements to come in the next month or two and you know I work as a technical director for stuff in combat sports too so if you ever want to work out with me

you can do you as well a woman who wears many hats Jed, I got to give you this time as well. What would you like to say to the people, maybe to the man just right now to your right in the little circular? What do you want to say to Mr. Al Shadi for that decision? I'm going to look at Sean,

because this is supposed to be a happy week to return of Sean Al Shottie, and then he just does this. Just absolutely nonsense. He and her, they are still ducking for the Tadahler. They never have a little bit of two teams, and he told you.

The deck is stacked. It was just as a rigged outcome. He told you beforehand he wasn't going to vote for me. Then he tried to pretend. I am the new Jedmishu. And this is nothing, I want to be clear, taking nothing away from the champion, who is great.

But I feel like some stalled dougarie of Hacchand here, and I didn't even get to talk about any of the things I wanted to talk about. I want to talk about the Veed. Because Aviv, I'm calling it now, Mike, this is what I'll end on. Havib is about the Michael Jordan do shit out of the MMA world. He's talking about how he wants to go do his first love with his football. He's going to do that for like a year, realize he's not that good at it, and then be like, shit, I'd rather go beat some dude up, come back, reclaim the title,

put together 35 and O, that puts him ahead of the Arslav Amasov, whatever he's going to have by that point and be the greatest fighter of all time. I hate this. This is the worst day of my life. Well, there you go. And if that happens with Habib Nirmagamatov and he does come back to MMA, we will talk about it right here on this show. But that's not going to happen next week. We'll see what happens next week.

But we're getting out of here for Phoenix, for Jed, for shot-out shoddy, for E. Casey Laden on the ones and twos. I am Mike Hack. We'll see you back here next Thursday once again between the legs. Good night, everybody. I love everybody that's not Sean. This is. been between the links, a MMA fighting production.

I'm Esther Lynn. I have a beautiful voice. Thanks for watching. Hit the subscribe button, click likes, you know, do it, do whatever. Hey, Jet Sucks. Bye. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.