MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Jake Paul vs. Tyron Woodley, Jared Cannonier, Barboza vs. Chikadze, Kevin Lee’s Return

Episode Date: August 26, 2021

Host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and journalist E. Spencer Kyte to battle it out and discuss the biggest stories in MMA, and beyond. The panelists discuss Sunday’s big boxing match between Jake Paul and former UFC welterweight champion Tyron Woodley, who has more pressure on them and what the best result of the fight might be, if Jared Cannonier moved the needle in terms of his middleweight standing and the fighter pay conversation following his win over Kelvin Gastelum in the main event of UFC Vegas 34 this past Saturday, the stakes in the upcoming UFC Vegas 35 featherweight headliner between Edson Barboza and Giga Chikadze, if Kevin Lee is in a must-win situation when he faces Daniel Rodriguez on Saturday, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow E. Spencer Kyte: @spencerkyte Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With Instacart, you get groceries that over-deliver, like when you get groceries that are the same price as in-store. With no markups at select retailers, you get in-store products for in-store prices, and the only thing that isn't in-store is you. That means you could order in-store products at in-store prices while you're in sweatpants, in spin class, in stuffy work meeting, in anywhere but in store. So download the app today and get $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, Mike.

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MMAfighting.com. Hope everyone's having a great week. I have been having a tremendous week. People have been saying, Mike, where you been, are you fired? Did Ariel just boot you? out into the ether. No, he did not. I was taking a little vacation. I enjoyed that vacation. And now life has changed. We're moving. We're doing all sorts of stuff. I've traveled close to 3,000 miles in the last 72 hours. But I'm back with the microphone in my face, ready to host a trilogy matchup on between

the lengths. A lot to discuss. We got the big one on Sunday. UFC had a card this past Saturday. They got another card this Saturday. We'll talk about all that and much more. with our special guests. So let us introduce them right now. First, back on the program. He wanted this trilogy matchup. He's going to get it. What a run he had.

Unfortunately, it came to an end. He wanted the opportunity to get it back, and he's got it. From UFC.com, his own substack, lots of other outlets as well, our good friend, E. Spencer Kites. Spencer, how are you, man? I'm doing well, man. I'm doing much better than you are after hearing the challenges you've been through over the last few days before we jumped on air.

But yeah, I wanted this one. I've never been defeated in one-on-one competition here on between the lengths. And after getting hit with a steel chair shot last time out in the triple threat match, I'm back for my title. There he is. And now the returning reigning defending champ. He just needed to hit the refresh button, took a couple weeks off, and now he's got back-to-back victories.

Let's say hello once again to the man with the spicy hot takes, Mr. Jedmishu. How are you, my friend? I love how Spencer tries to pawn off last week. Like, AK did a lot of help for me. It was just a warm body in that ring, and I was throwing haymakers. Oh, I mean, listen, I gave it to you at the end of the show. I don't know if it made the actual audio feed. You deserved that win last week.

Yeah. So I'm doing great. Mike, I'm excited because, one, all of your things going on means I'm not going to be the curmudgeon today, and that's a rarity. And two, I'm, like, genuinely pumped about this weekend. There are, like, a lot of good fights happening across a whole slate of things. And, come on, man. It's Paul Woodley. This is my Nirvana. This is what I'm here for, baby. So, let's go. Well, it's, it's funny you should say that, Jed, because that's who we're starting today. It's coming up this Sunday.

Showtime pay-per-view, August 29th. Jake Paul versus Tyrant Woodley. We have talked about this fight on the show already. We talked about it was just announced when we saw the face-offs and the press conferences and all that stuff. But now we are just days away from this fight actually happening. So, Jed, we'll get to begin with you.

You are excited. You mentioned this fight by name. How excited are you? Are you getting more excited? Or has your interest just been at a peak and it just continues to peak even more so as we get closer to Sunday. My interest was peaked from the minute Triller happened and I was at it. We went through this whole journey long months ago earlier this year and it happened.

I was not excited about Paul Ascran. I built momentum. I went to Triller and it's the best live experience I've had in years. Like I couldn't have been more ready for the next Jake Paul thing because I think everybody knew coming off that the Tyron Woodley. I mean, they basically set it up during the Triller Fight Club thing. So I know this isn't a trailer promotion, but it's still a lot of the same ethos going on here. I mean, even the construction of the card feels a little similar.

And at the top, you get, frankly, honestly, this fight is legitimately interesting on the merits. Outside of the Carnival Barker sideshow aspect here, like, I am fascinated by what's going to happen because every fiber of my rational being says that Tyron Woodley should be able to beat Jake Paul in a boxing match. Because he can hit really freaking hard. And Jake Paul has not been hit yet. Like that's a thing that matters. Being the hammer is much, much more easy than being the nail. And so, like, the first time he gets hit by a real hitter, it feels like he might just crumble up and die.

But at the same time, even before Tyron Woodley got watched, he was always at risk of just losing a fight because he didn't do anything like he just might sit there and not do anything for 25 minutes it's why he almost killed wonder boy three times in two fights and barely one decision like won one decision amongst the two fights like he just sometimes you won't do anything and that was when he was good now he's not good anymore anything could happen here and if if jake paul knocks out tywin woodley it's going to be freaking nuts or conversely if conversely if Tom Woodley does something cool, it's still going to be nuts and cool. I'm pumped about this fight. I couldn't be more excited. The only negative I have to say is that it's on Sunday. Sunday is a school night. Ladies and gentlemen, I don't want to be up to one in the morning watching boxing because I got to work on Monday. So it's the only negative I have. Everything else here is nothing but positive. Spencer, you've been on the show a few times now and something tells me that you kind of want to know what's going to happen on Sunday,

but something also tells me you are not near the level of excitement that Jet is at when it comes to Paul versus Woodley. Am I on the nose here? I mean, I don't think there are many people that are near the level of excitement that Jet is at. Like, let's be clear. Jet is in the top like 3% in terms of excitement percentile here. Surprisingly, the more, the closer this has gotten,

and the more I've thought about it and frankly been tasked with thinking about it by one of my outlets. I've gotten excited about it. I mean, I wrote 2,000 words on this thing this morning. That'll be up tomorrow on OSDBSports.com, cheap plug. Because there's some, there's some, I fain to say the word legitimacy to this

because we're still talking about Jake Paul versus a non-boxer Tyrone Woodley in a boxing match that is headlining a pay-per-view. So it's not quite like real boxing, but it's getting closer. And that's the part that I'm really interested in because where this goes next. And what happens Sunday night

becomes the like where this goes next thing. And it's really interesting, man, because, you know, love them or hate him, Jake Paul has that magnetism. He has that gravitational pull that people pay attention. And if he goes out there and beats time, I mean, he has already started laying the groundwork for what he's looking at next.

And it's Connor McGregor and it's Canelo Alvarez, which both sound like absolutely absurd ideas. But they're like the amount of money that these people are all making from these things, they're not absurd to me anymore. I hate saying that. I hated writing it this morning, but it's not absurd anymore

and you have to start paying attention. You don't have to take it seriously. You don't have to like him, respect what's going on, anything like that, but you have to start paying attention if it gets to a point that we're getting L. Alvarez involved in these conversations. Who's the pressure on more, Spencer?

I mean, you got Jake Paul, he's got everything seemingly ratting on this. he has a plan, right? You mentioned some of these. You mentioned Connor. He's got this hit list. We saw all these different names, including his own freaking brother on the hit list. And it's just crazy to think about. But for Tyron Woodley, I heard him on Ariel Hawande show the other day. And the man's fired up. He's saying the right things. He's putting the pressure on himself to go out there and do some work. And with a win, I mean, this is humongous. But if he goes out there and gets knocked up by Jake Paul, this is not a good thing for him. So in your eyes, who has more pressure on them heading into Sunday?

Is it Jake Paul or is it Tyron Woodley? Oh, it's Tyron Woodley by like miles because he is the guy like this is the, well, he's the actual fighter. He's the athlete. He's the guy that should be able to, as Jed said, go in there and beat this guy just on like athletic merits and having knocked some people out back in the day in his MMA career. Now, admittedly, it's been a number of years since he knocked anybody out. Robbie Loller, what he won the title at UFC 201. But I mean, you mentioned that he's been saying all the right things

and he's putting all the pressure on himself. Tyron Woodley has been saying all the right things and declaring all the things that he's going to do to guys throughout this losing street that he's been on at this tail end of his UFC career. He said it all the way through all the time. and it didn't often materialize. And now he's going in there with a 24-year-old kid that is just printing money on fights that he's making himself.

And so as much as, you know, there's the comeuppance potential for Jake Paul to get his ass handed to him, the pressure's on Tyrod Woodley to go out there and do what he has said he's going to do. And that's beat this kid and get one back for his friend Ben Askeran and get one back for MMA and real combat sports athletes. And if he doesn't succeed, man, like it goes sideways in a hurry for him. Do you agree with that, Jed?

Do you feel like Woodley's got all the pressure? Do you feel like young Jake Paul has got some weight on his back heading into Sunday? I don't know that either man has pressure in this situation. Honestly, this is a free roll for both sides. Like, Jake Paul has been masterful in his boxing career. You cannot like the dude. And that's cool because I don't. I think he's not a good person.

Like, objectively, he is a bad individual. But the way he has managed his career thus far is a plus plus. Like he has done everything right. He's built things correctly. And that's why this is good matchmaking for him. If he wins, he beats Tom Woodley a multiple time UFC Walterway champion. Like that's a big feather in anybody's cap, even though Woodley's washed and kind of bad now. And conversely, what is getting paid?

baby. Fight sports is fight sport. Like this is prize fighting and whatever else matters. This doesn't affect his legacy in any regard because it's boxing not MMA. So I don't personally think that this influences legacy realistically at entirely different

sports. And it does affect his bank account. He gets money. He has said very clearly from the beginning of this. I'm going to get paid more for this fight than I will for any of my other UFC fights, which is a scathing condemnation. of the UFC.

And good for Tom Woodley. The man deserves it. He put in his time. He put in his effort. He accomplished everything just about that there is to accomplish in the sport of mixed martial arts. So now he just, he gets to cash a check. Yeah, he would like to win this fight. But honestly, I know I do agree with what Spencer said, you know,

time has been saying the right things forever. Every time. He said the same thing for the past three years. Since the Usman lost, I wasn't focused. My mind wasn't right. Now it's a new me. I'm going there, and I'm going to show him. Then he goes in there and he doesn't do anything.

He gets beat up for a while. Now, to his credit, he actually did come in against Luka and tossed hands and tried, and then he got got. But he at least backed up what he was saying beforehand. So hopefully we get the same here because I think if he can do that, he probably, like I said, I think he does probably knock out Jake Paul. And if he knocks out Jake Paul, that's great for him because that means he's going to get a rematch. And that's just, that's more in the bank. keep getting more bags.

And on the other side of things, again, Jake Paul, we've seen Connor's proven that once you are a guy who people want to watch, it doesn't really matter if you lose. Even if you lose a lot, and even if after you lose, you make a colossal jackass out of yourself, people are still going to tune in to

watch you. And so Jake Paul, I think he's in that realm. I mean, one, he's targeting a younger demographic who really doesn't care if you make a jackass out of yourself. So if he loses, I think he's going to be just fine. Maybe they run it back. Maybe he can go elsewhere. And if he wins, he's great. And I think it's the same for Woodley. I think a loss hurts Woodley more insofar as a loss

kind of negates any future boxing opportunities he would have. But even so, I think we're really splitting hairs. I think everybody this weekend is a winner from a professional standpoint, if not a personal standpoint. Spencer, what's the best result for Sunday? What is the best thing that can happen for like all parties involved. All right, because Woodley wins. There's Jake Paul. They could do it again.

All these like, there's, it's, no matter what happens, it's like, sort, it's good for everybody from a financial end.

For Woodley, this is great for MMA, right? It's great for his career. All these doors will open for him in the entertainment world. Like this, this is a massive thing for him.

If Jake Paul wins, clicks galore. There's the, the Taka Baby a Connor fight, or Canelo, fight and are all these different names. Like it's just bananas where this kid's at right now heading into just his fourth professional fight.

But like all in all for the story of, you know, this celebrity sort of boxing thing that has taken off, what is the best thing that can happen on Sunday? A Jake Paul win, a Tyrone Woodley win or a double knockout? I mean, a double knockout is going to lead sports center. But this may lead sports center on Sunday night anyway. So I think really for Jake Paul, for. showtime for where this can go in the future. Jake Paul Victory is the best thing.

I mean, you just keep going to the bank with this kid. Because as Jed said, he taps into a generation of people that just want to see this. They don't care that it's not high-level competition. They don't care that it's positioned ahead of legitimately skilled, talented, meaningful fights on Sunday, night. They just want to see this dude that they know from Vine and from whatever else he's done, go out there and throw hands and be a jackass.

And so for that side of the equation, for that grouping of Jake Paul in Showtime, him going out there and beating a former UFC champion and being able to just keep on this role and keep turning the volume up. Like every time

he's gone out there and had one of these victories, it goes up another notch. So he knocks out Nate Robinson and it goes viral and he sets his sights on Ben Ascran. Goes out and he knocked out Ben Ascran and he immediately sets his sights on Tyron Woodley. Before he's even got this fight, he's already got his eyes set on Connor McGregor and then Canelo. So if he goes out there and wins, the volume on that just goes up even more.

And if you don't think Connor McGregor is scootering around in Beverly Hills, rehabbing that leg, thinking, imagine how much money I can make and we can make me and this idiot. kid, you're crazy. Because that is 100% going through his mind right now, that I can get healthy and a year from now get out there and box this kid in AT&T Stadium

in Arlington or something like that and just make a grip of money. That's what's going to happen. So I think of your showtime and your Jake Paul, a victory is the best thing. That's the best outcome. Jed, I feel like you agree. You've been pushing for this Connor thing for a while.

You've been throwing it out. And I feel like you've been right. Like we're getting closer and closer to this actually being a thing. But I'm curious to get your thoughts because with the whole Ben Ascran fight, your excitement got built up the closer we got because the thing was just, it was out of left field. It was a circus. And we all just sort of bought into the circus. Now with the being on Showtime, the presentation is a little bit different. Like they understand what they have with Jake, but it seems like a more serious sporting events than the Triller event. I know you enjoyed the Triller event very much.

much and anybody who was in Atlanta that and I enjoyed the Triller event very much. But do you feel like a lot of people get that even more excited closer to Sunday? Because there really hasn't been a lot going on in terms of building this fight. It's just like, wow, it's happening this Sunday. They've had press conferences and stuff. But I feel like the build to this fight, it just feels different than the Askeran one. You know what I mean? Like I don't feel like the buzz is as there.

Maybe it's just because of the Showtime thing. Because they're presenting it in a more professional sporting way. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know. I think you're right. I think the buzz is a little less. I think there are probably a number of factors. One, for better or worse,

Tyrone is a much better fighter than Ben Ascran ever was, but Ben Ascran was a far more popular person than Tyrone Woodley ever was. People likes to hear him talk, even when what he said was mostly dumb. And so I think that that's, I think that probably plays a factor. Look, I mean, I've been talking about this for a while. and I think I harped on it pretty hard last week. If you want to be a real combat sports organization, don't go on Showtime because it's not a real channel

and nobody can watch shit there. So I think that probably hurts it a little bit too. And certainly treating this like a professional entity is, I don't think it's the right way to play it. I think you do, the undercard's great. Like put real fights on it. They did that at the trailer thing too. But you don't want to get away from the fact that this is,

the Emperor has no clothes and we don't need to pretend that he does. and Showtime runs the risk of doing this. Honestly, this is going to go over like probably 90% of the people who are listening to the show right now. And certainly Jake Paul had no idea. I'd say, like, this is a real comidus-style thing from him of like pretending to be somebody who matters. And when he gets that it's not real and the trailer thing is happening and it's you've got, I don't know how to phrase what Oscar De La Jolla was that night, but. let's say an enhanced Oscar de la Jolla doing that and A.C. Slater from Saved by the Bell is on commentary and Snoop Dog selling weed with Urkel.

Like that, that ethos is great for exactly what this is, like cartoon ridiculousness. And so I have some level of concern that the Showtime is going to try and serious this up. And then everyone's going to be like, well, this is a little lame because this dude sucks. but I still think broad strokes it's not going to matter this is still passing the mom test that we talk about people have been hitting me up hey Jake Paul is fighting this weekend right yet be sure is so I think in that respect it's it's fine and then I don't remember if you actually ask this but I think the bet well the best outcome is always a double knockout because that's just always the best outcome Mike but I think a tyrant Woodley win is actually pretty good all around here now entirely win with like a vicious K.O. Might not be great. But if he wins, you know, a competitive fight or gets a TKO late, I think that sets up time because I want to be clear,

I'm not pushing a Jake Paul Connor McGregor fight. That's just the plan. Like very clearly, both Connor and Jake Paul are planning on that. And it's not going to happen until Conner's fought out his UFC contract because Conner's done the boxing thing once. He doesn't want to give Dana White a cut of that anymore, because why the hell should he? So that's going to happen, but that can't happen for a while

because Conner's got to finish out his UFC contract to make that clean. And so if Jake Paul beats Tyron Woodley this weekend, there aren't a lot of great fights for him in the interim while he has to wait for Connor to heal up and fight. I think Anderson Silva actually makes like all the sense in the world as a next step, given Silva, you know, fits that same sort of ethos and would be a clear step up from Tyron Woodley as a fighter as well. It's probably a bridge too far, frankly.

Silver probably beats him. But hell, I kind of think that's the same case from Tyne Woodley. But other than that, there just aren't a lot of fights that I think he can do that. And he needs to at least be competitive or be winning to get the eventual Connor fight in this interim. So I think if he beats Woodley and it's like a convincing when he knocks out Woodley or whatever, great. That's going to boost his stock. People are going to want to watch him.

But I just don't know who he fights then other than maybe. being an agent from Silva, because anything past that, you're really running the risk of him getting made look like a fool. Like Woodley is right at that perfect level of beatable, but dangerous. And there's not a lot that I can see that fits in that same, you know, band. And he needs, he'll need to stay active because, again, he won't be able to fight Connor until at earliest the end of next year. Yeah, I feel like Tommy Fury is, is in an interesting spot. He's fighting Jake's guy, Anthony Taylor, former, I mean, still kind of MMA fighter, Fuffer Bellator several times. So that's going on. I believe that

kicks off the main card, but it's going down Sunday. Jake Paul versus Tyron Woodley, I can't believe it, and I'm very fascinated by all of it. I like the way that this has been built up. I don't need a build for this one. This thing sells itself. Paul versus Woodley. It's just going to be insane. And I'm here for it. And I'm also here for the rest of this matchup between Spencer and Jed. the point for round one goes to I mean I have to give it to Jed because I think Showtime should give him a cut

because I think he sold about 10,000 extra paper views for them with the way you promoted this one No I didn't I sold four because nobody knows where Showtime is so it's not a real channel grow up oh man well let us move ahead to the World of Mixed Martial Arts let's talk about this past Saturday let's talk about Jared Canonnier defeats Calvin Gasolm

five-round decision. Pretty good fight. Guy's been out for a while, had some injuries, came back. Calvin Gasselm is a very difficult guy to look good against. And Jared Candidier had his moments, ultimately comes back and gets the victory. So before we get into probably the bigger story here, Spencer,

just your overall thoughts about Jared Candidier's performance and what he was able to do against Calvin Gassum this past Saturday. I mean, as you said, Calvin's a tough out. It's a good win. he looked solid. I thought he won three of the five rounds, just as the judges did. I thought that was pretty clear.

I know Kelvin has questioned otherwise, and his corners throughout the fight were telling him otherwise, which was suspect. But I thought Cannoneer looked good. As you said, he's been off for a while. He's coming off the loss to Robert Whitaker and the broken arm and getting back into the swing of things. And he went out there and, you know,

he looked good in the first, clearly took the second round off, goes out and gets the third and fourth to put himself in that kind of don't get knocked out, don't get finished zone. And that's kind of how the fifth round played out. And so it's going out and handling business the way you need to at times in spots like this.

Because this was also a short notice fight, right? Like this was Kelvin Gasolam jumping in for Paulo Costa. So it's not like he spent the whole time getting ready for Calvin Gasolum. And I mean, Kelland Gasolm's on a slide, so you're maybe not as up for it as you are the prospects of going in and facing Paulo Costa, who's only losses to Israel out of Sonia. And maybe that puts you right next in line. And so to go out and handle business the way he did, he gets full marks for doing his job. He looked good.

I think he has a chance to look better next time out. There's clearly still some room to grow and improve, but he handled business and did what he needed to do. What did you think, Jed? What would you give Jared Candidier for a grade, whether it be five out of ten or 50 out of 100? However you want to scale this thing up, Jed. How would you grade Canadianers' performance? That's like a C. I don't know.

So I guess what's that? Like a 74 out of 100? Look, it's one of those things. We're coming off the Olympic cycle and we just watched all these sports that have judges' criteria for them. And all of them, gymnastics and diving. and all the other stuff. There are two factors. It's how well you do and your degree of difficulty.

Jared Canaanier did fine, like a totally acceptable thing, but you have a very low degree of difficulty is Kelvin Gassum sucks. He has one win over a currently relevant middleweight. Like, I'm just done pretending that we need to treat Kelvin Gaston like he's a legit middleweight prospect. Like, he's a fine dude. He doesn't suck. He's a very competent fighter. And that's it.

And there's no shame in being a competent fighter. Like, that still puts you in the 99.99%tile of the world. But, like, he has a win over Ian Hinesh. That's it. That's the only relevant win he has in his career. When you started it, you said, you know, he's a hard guy to look good against. And that's maybe true.

He's, in general, more difficult to, like, look exceptional against. But he ain't a hard guy to beat because five people beat him in the last couple of years here. And granted, he's fighting tough dudes. But at some point, if you fight a lot of, bunch of tough dudes, you need to win one of them for me to care about you as a middleweight to sell. We talked about this last week. He and Darren Till have an unrivaled ability to fail upwards. Like I don't understand coming off this. He clearly lost. He's insane to pretend that I won this. I thought I took it. I like, no, you obviously didn't. And then he post the freaking

striking stats on his Twitter. I was like, look, I outstruck him. You outstruck him by like one strike in three rounds and he dropped you once, Tommy, deal with it. You lost. Like, it's not, he's, it boggles my mind that, that we are still like, yeah, Kelvin Gaspolm, that's like a great win. No, it's a fine win. It is a win over somebody who's relevant and that is good, but like,

Kelvin Gasselm should not be in anybody's rankings. When we do our, our MMA fighting rankings at the end of this month, I'm not putting him in my 15. I refuse because he has a win over Ian Hinesh. and you don't get style points for losing the Israelada Sanya well. Like you didn't win the fight, bro. So that's it. Like I walk cannoneer.

He did his job and he did his job against the short notice replacement. And so you can't really take a lot of away from that. Because like Spencer said, it's not a guy you're preparing for. Maybe you're not as up for it because you probably, as a professional fighter, are aware that Kelvin Gaston is very smoking mirrors in his selling points. But he did his job and he's going to get himself. a title fight, but I didn't come out of that fight thinking, man, that dude's the dude to test Izzy. I thought, sweet, that's going to be another solid win on Israel Adisanias, Adis,

you know, on his belt when he gets the ruby, it would be like, oh, that was a Jared Canaaner win. That was a good win. That was a relevant, high quality, middleweight, and I defeated it. That is what I left that fight thinking. Spencer, let me go back to you because we talked about the win. He was out for a little while, coming off the Whitaker loss, wants to get to a title. And sure, you're in the main event and people are talking about you. But the thing that got people talking more than anything was the post-fight interview, talking about being broke.

And then he went on the MMA hour and sort of peeled back the onion, so to speak, of where it comes from. Saying essentially like, you know what, listen, the UFC treats us well. You know, me not fighting sucks. Costs me some time. Costs me a good amount of money. But listen, we are professional athletes. We should, I should have six figures in my bank account right now, untouched. That's just what we are. We're fighting on ESPN. We're professional athletes at the highest

level. So with everything that Cannonair did on Saturday and on Monday with Ariel and just talking about this situation, did he move the needle at all in either direction, like whether just for the fighter right side or for I'm one of the top middleweights in the world side? I mean, I think his profile is increased, which will help him in the I'm one of the top middleweights in the world. Because I mean, like, he really is. He's one of, as Jed said. He is in that group at the top of the division that puts him in the one percentile. And so in that regard, it certainly moved the needle. And he's gotten a lot more attention for what he said in being on a platform like the MMA hour with your colleague and my friend Ariel Hawani. Does it really

change a lot for him? Does it move the needle in terms of people are going to be clamoring for the next Jared Cannonier fight? Probably not, because unfortunately in this community people have really short memories and they like shouting about the cause of the day and then moving

on to the next thing. And we've seen over many, many years that there's only a handful of fighters that are going to generate and command that interest and hold on to it from people for a long, long time. And as good as Jared Cannonier is,

as valid as everything he said Monday is, he just ain't one of those guys. And so, yeah, people will remember this win, and they'll remember him because we'll replay the interview with Ariel and talk about it again. Whenever his next fight gets announced and whenever that fight then comes up, but he's not a guy that people are going to be, like,

circling the calendar to make sure, like setting a Google alert for Jared Cannonier fight news. And that's, you know, that's not a knock on him. That's just the way that this business works and the way that this community seems to function. Jed shaking his head. I mean, listen, we're, I think we felt like if Can Iar B. Gassum, his position was pretty clear. He's fighting the winner of Darren Till versus Derek Brunson and then hopefully gets on the road to

the title. So I think in terms of his performance, yeah, he gets a win and that's great. All the headlines were the comments afterwards, Jed. So do you think like other fighters were like picked up the? phone and called Jared and been like, dude, well done. Like, let's start forming a tribe, man. Let's get this thing done. Let's do what nobody's been able to do before.

Like, has the needle been moved at all from Janet, from Jared Kennedy? No, because he didn't stick with it. Look, I want to throw shit. I forgot how Spencer phrased it. I'm going to knock that hell out of Jared Cannon here. Stand, be you, man. You said some. Stand on it.

If it's a lie, fight on that lie. I don't care, man. If you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly. If you won't come out and say, I'm broke, be broke. Don't equivocate after the fact. Don't be like, ah, shit, Sean Shelby's going to be mad at me, and I don't know if I'm going to get. No, come on, come on Ariel's show on MMAfighting. The MMA hour with Ariel Hawani.

Come on there and double down. Because even if you are wrong technically, you're right. You're extremely right. There's no need to parse this and say, well, they treat me well. and I just, I was out for a while, and so that's why I'm broke and I bought a, I have a second house in Alaska and that costs money. You don't need that because even if all of that's true, they are still underpaying all of you by a substantial amount. This is uncontrovertible. Nobody will argue that point except for the most trolley dipshits in the world.

Like you make 18% of revenue. Everyone knows this number because it's the UFC. admitted number and like so you don't have to pretend you don't have to to suck up or kowtow at all you can just say yeah man I'm broke and then come on a row show and say yeah everything I said before I did the but and all the equivocation I am one of the best fighters in the world I should be getting paid a reasonable amount for my services as opposed to if I'm out for a year and a half because of injury I'm in financial trouble like that's just own it man and nobody will own it and it's the

most, it's one of the most frustrating things. Aside from watching fighters just get bent over and refuse to stand up for themselves collectively when the obvious answer is that they can and should do that, it's watching so many fighters take three steps down the right path and then be like, nah, buck on this. Like, Jorge Mosswood all started doing it, then shut the hell up because he got the title fight he wanted. John Jones is sticking to it for now, and that's great.

I hope he continues to stand on it. Misha Tate did it earlier this week where she, I don't know if she walked back comments, but she explains some more comments about expenses and costs from her return fight. Like, don't. You're 100% in the right by just saying, yeah, they underpay me. And I'm a shout this whistle.

One of the objectively great things Jake Paul has done, I know we're not talking about him anymore, is he has shined a big, bright light on the fact that fighter pay in the UFC in particular is garbage. And nobody's jumping up and be like, yeah, man, this dude's right. And like, I know you're going to catch flak. First guy through the wall always catches in the teeth. But somebody's got to do it.

And if you're, you've already stepped on that limb. Don't get afraid looking down to how high it is. Just go. And so it was super frustrating because in the immediate aftermath, it was like, dope. Jared Kennedy said something cool. Maybe he'll just own that. And then he immediately was like, no, I'm not.

cool. Don't worry about it. You can go back to not give a, I don't want to say the words anymore. Think of cursed a lot already. You don't have to worry about me anymore. I'm going to be quiet, dude, and wait until I get to lose to Izzy for a belt. Well said. And then, no, but, but here's, here's, here's, it's hilarious. And I think today is a perfect example of why

we're never going to see what we want to see happen. Because Jared Kennedy goes on Ariel's show on Monday and says his thing. Kevin Holland goes on Ariel's show today. and says, I make great money. Just win fights or get a new manager. And then you'll make all the money you want. What? I couldn't believe it.

It's just, same division. Guys are the same division. One is like knocking on the door of a title shot. This other, Kevin Holland's not even ranked right now. He's not even in the top 15. And he's saying, I love getting paid when I'm getting paid. It's crazy. It's the Donald's or anything, man.

Like, yeah, sure. You're making more money because you're fighting five times a year, but you recognize a fighting five times a year. year is not how this sport should work and it only works for a very limited few and you are still being that all that actually means is you're being exploited five times more than the average fighter is but you can't see the forest for the trees jet is just dropping bombs today it's dropping lots of I was fired up at the pan of your thing this is like these are like posters I see in my I would see in my kids room dude it was the most frustrating thing that happened just be like he said it

unequivocally and with no thing like, I'm broke. And everybody immediately was like, hell yeah, we're going to make this the headline. It was all over all the news sites. Main event fighter, one of the top three guys soon to be challengers, like, I'm broke. Dan Levittar started talking about it on his show and blasting ESPN for the role they play in this.

Like he had momentum behind him, and he immediately was just like, nah, I'm good. Never mind that. Don't want to do that. the thing that's for us the other part of it and jed touched on it a little bit that's that's so frustrating about this and i don't think anyone except for as he said the trolleiest of trolls and the dippiest of dipshits will argue that the ufc pays these guys these men and women adequately we know what the numbers are in all of these other sports we see all of the

announcements of the different partnerships and pairings and sponsorships and whatnot that the UFC signs. And I don't think there's anyone that sits there and goes, nope, that 18% that's, that's plenty. The part that is so maddening to me. And I think Jed and most and hopefully some other people too is that that hasn't been any effort. As much as as people will hate to hear this and I know people are going to be like, oh, look where he writes and all of that, there's no impetus for the UFC to come out and pay these people more. Like there's just nothing.

They're not beholden to paying them more. Should they? Of course. Every rich person should pay their employees more. We all want more money. Everybody wants a bigger piece of the pie. But until their feet are held to the fire, they're not just going to offer up more money.

And until the athletes decide, we're tired of getting this very small sliver, Nothing's going to change. And so as much as we all understandably are on the side of the fighters in terms of they deserve more, there also has to be a little bit of like getting on them and pushing them to take these steps that are necessary, not just individually like John Jones seems to be doing, not just one-off when, as Jed said, Jorge Mosvital starts talking about it and then decides he doesn't have anything more to say because he's going to be. going to sell his tequila and

and God his fight. But as a unit, just step out and say we need to fix this, because that's the only way any of this ever changes. Yeah, it's funny. I bet even though Dana and Ariel have their spat, I'm sure on Monday

Dana and Sean Shelby and Mick Maynard and Hunter Campbell are sitting in Dana's office and they're watching that interview. And then Canada's done. And they just start laughing. They just started laughing. Because Spencer, you're absolutely right. Like what what incentive does the UFC have to give these guys more money? You can say it all you want.

Connor's not saying it. None of these guys are really saying it. They're just not. And there's no incentive for them to be like, here you go, bro. Here's an extra 100 Gs. You're hurt. Your arm's broken. Here's a check for $100,000 to get your family through this.

The kindness of Dana White's heart. The wild thing too, right, in this industry, if they did decide to come out and go from 18 to 25%, that's going to salt like, It's going to appease a whole lot of people and a larger chunk of the population that follow this sport will just instantly do the like, see, taking care of people. And yep, it's better. It's not what it should be. We all know that.

But until MMA fighters get to that point that all of these other athletes and all of these other professional leagues are at, whereas Jed said, the first few people through the door take it in the teeth. and suffer all of the slings and arrows that are coming, this is where we're going to be. This is just what it's going to be, because rich people don't get rich by giving away their money. Dude, my favorite thing, we should probably move off of fighting pages, because we can spend forever here.

I have two comments, and I'll close my side. Of the many things in instances where I've been like, oh, somebody should really wisen up. It has still never not been hilarious and tragic to me that, like, this whole conversation about the goodness, the generosity of the UFC and Dana White gave me some money to help me through hard enough time that is like very clearly distilled into. Yeah, there were a few people who Dana took care of and he got him jobs. And that can't even happen anymore because it's now a real company owned by a real thing. And as soon as they got bought, Chuck O'Dell got fired from his no-show job. taking a paycheck doing whatever.

Like, you're not going to get, even if Dana was really liked you, like he likes, you know, Diego Sanchez or whatever. Like, there's just nobody, nobody's going to sign off on him. Just, ah, here's an extra 100K for you, random person. Because WMEG got bills to pay, man. The UFC's a profit driver for him. And my last thing is, yeah, Leslie Smith has more balls than anybody in the UFC and more balls than most people on the planet.

And mad respect to her. She tried. Y'all wouldn't listen. It's so funny. I was going through my Facebook, like, anniversaries. And, like, on this day, five years ago, I talked to Jeff Boris, who was going to start the PFA. And it went nowhere. I think that was the last time we heard his voice talk about Fighter Pay ever, was that interview

that maybe like a thousand people listened to at the time. But it's just wild to think about. It really is. And by the way, especially for you new fans, listen to what these two gentlemen are saying. if you're expecting them to come out like the NBA and TNT and give the players 50% of the profit sharing, it ain't happening. It's just not,

not the way that everything's structured. Do you want to know why the NBA gets that much? Because they got a players association and a damn good one. Want to know why the NFL gets that? Same. Major League Baseball? The same. Yeah, but Mike,

I mean, fighters can cut their own deals with crypto.com. So, Can't be in being players do that? I don't think so. It's because they're getting a piece of the freaking sponsorship to begin with. Yes, but we can talk about this forever. Fighters, we love you.

We want you to make all the money in the world. That is the message that we want to put out there. But a really fun round. A round we could go on for another hour. Easy. But the point for round number two goes to Spencer Kites. Good stuff. That was a good round.

It's just really good. It's just really good stuff. I feel like you have to justify every point. I give away because they don't want people to be mad at me. But today, I don't care. I don't care. You bring it. I'm not even bringing in a special guest judge for the final round today.

How about that? Because I'm ready. Oh, can we know who? Because that might change and affect my pandering over these next couple of questions. It's me. I'm doing it. I'm not bringing anybody in. Are you going to go on a limb like Jared Canaan went out on limb and immediately

walk away from it? I don't know. I'll be here. Don't you worry about it. But let's talk about, we talked about what's going on on Sunday. but before that, the UFC is back, UFC Vegas 35. I like this card.

I really like this main event. It's a big one at 145 pounds. In my opinion, one of the more underrated divisions in the sport right now, especially in the UFC, 145 pounds. We got Edson Barbosa

versus Giga Chikaze. So, Jed, we'll begin with you. Thoughts on the matchup. Like, compare it to last week's main event between Canada and Gasolam. Is this like, is this night and day in terms of what your excitement levels? Yeah, this fight is dope.

Like, one, middleweight is a garbage division, so even the best middleweight fight is not going to be as good as like a mid-level featherweight fight realistically. I will, not the best one, because the upcoming title fight, that'll be really great. But other than that, I mean, the middle-weight's whatever. And featherweight's dope. Like you said, I think it is an underrated division right now, which is insane to me because it's so obviously like the third or maybe fourth best division. in the sport like it's top to bottom unbelievable uh and this fight is is awesome like edson barbosa's been edson barbosa is actually a good fighter here's a major difference like kelvin gasplum has fought a who's who of people and he's beaten none of them unless they were old as the third

edson barbosa has also fought oh who's who look at his run man like i think you can put his just the names on his resume win or loss you can put it up against anybody's run in the sport. That man has fought everybody. Tony Ferguson, Anthony Pettis, Habibir Mehmettov, Justin Gae, Paul Felder, like, everybody of forever, and now he's dropped to 45 and looks awesome.

Like, kind of Josealdo-esque, honestly, where he had a little bit of a tough adjustment, I think, in his first fight, the Igay fight, I still thought he won, but you know, not great, but he's really coming to his own, he's managing the weight cut well, and he's like a legitimate contender. Like, that's an actual good

fighter and giga chikadez is a super hot prospect like i don't think there's i mean i guess maybe he's past prospect at this point um but i still would probably put him with that designation uh and dude just think of the kicks think of the kicks that are coming for us giga giga's got his whole branded giga kick edson barbosa is the man who kicks things like that's his job title is kicked the shit out of stuff this is just this should be a fight circus the fight circus kicking human kick fighting this is it like i don't need to see edson borbo's throw hands here just wheel kicks and leg kicks and let's see who drops first like i this is awesome uh the only reason that's not the fight i'm the most excited about this weekend is for the aforementioned paul woodley

but this fight's great and i know we're going to get into it honestly a lot of the other fights on this card are interesting in some capacity or another what do you think spencer what sticks out to you about this fight? What makes it so fascinating? Are you on the same level as Jed when it comes to this main event on Saturday? Yeah, I'm right there and Jed mentioning the list of people that Edson Barbosa has fought. I've got my 10 things that I like about this card coming out tomorrow morning on the Substack newsletter. And the first point is literally just listing out the last seven and a half years of Edson Barbosa's career because the list is like, it's ridiculous, right? You saw after the Kelvin Gasolm fight. A lot of people did

look at the list of people he's fought and rattled off the names. Edson Barboses is twice as deep and as Jed said, he's beaten a bunch of the minutes. He's actually won some of those fights and now he's gone down a division and branded himself as a potential

contender there as well. And so to me, he is the right test at the right time for a guy like Giga who is a little older than you would normally consider a prospect. but he's 6 and 0 in the UFC. He's coming off that fight with Cub Swanson

where he folded him over in about a minute. And it's kind of the matchup that he needs. This is where we figure out, is Giga a super exciting dude in the middle of this really fun division where everyone from like 12 to 26 is really fun to watch and it's a whole whack of good fights

and anybody can beat anybody? Or is he actually a top 10 guy that can get into it with some of these other guys that are a little bit lesser known but super talented, like Arnold Allen, like Mavsari Vloyev, like even Calvin Cater, who is outside of the title picture, but tough as all get out. And so to me, this is the chance to see sort of those questions get answered for a guy that has looked great thus far in the UFC, but is going up against his toughest test and a guy that, you know, short-circuited Shane Burgos's brain just a couple of months, ago. Yeah, well, I think Spencer, the thing that I really like about this fight is there's, unlike

last week, like there were some stakes in the main event. There's a lot of stakes here because there's rare times in the sport where you see a guy that's floating 10, 12, you know, even to as far back as 15 where they have a fight in a certain matchup where you're like, if this guy wins, we could throw them in there with the top five guy. Like next fight and no one's going to bat an eye. Like I think whoever wins this fight, their next fight is not against, you know, a Josh Emmett. They're fighting a top five fighter. Like they could be fighting Calvin Cater next. It is very possible.

Do you agree with that? Do you think the stakes are that high? The winner of this fight could get a huge bolt. Kind of like what Mokachev got after beating Tiago Moises. I think so because it's a main event fight. And so it will depend. I mean, I think the only little caveat is how it plays out. If this is a weird, oddly uneventful kind of staring contest

or two great kickboxers weirdly get into a clinch fight along the cage or somehow this turns into a grappling match, then maybe not. But if it's as electric as we think it is and it is Kick City as Jed wants it to be and I want it to be and you want it to be and everybody else wants it to be and somebody gets knocked out in spectacular spectacular fashion, they're jumping over. I think they're at 9 and 10 right now in the UFC rankings. And if it's dynamic finished,

they're jumping over that sort of 8-7-6 group and facing, as you said, either Calvin Cater or the Korean zombie next time out. Or, I mean, you know, you can maybe even argue Max Holloway, given that he's sitting in that limbo position, waiting to see what happens with Volcanowski and Brian Ortega at the end of next month. And so there are, as you said,

legit stakes tied to this and a chance for the winner to really get into the mix here in a 145 pound weight class. How high are the stakes in your mind, Jed? I mean, I agree with everything you both said, basically. Like, I think, I mean, Mike, I think he nailed it. Like, the winner of this is getting a top five guy and I don't, I don't, no one's going to be concerned about it.

No one's even going to ask the question. I mean, because Barbosa, Barbos is just such a known quantity. He carries a lot of respect as he should. We've talked about it a lot already. And Chikaze is such a hyped prospect. Everybody forgot that he got tapped on Contender Series because he's looked so good in the UFC

that you just forget these sorts of things that happened, not that long ago for being honest. And so, yeah, it is possible, like Spencer said. You could maybe even see them go up against Holloway, because I think Holloway has to fight somebody. Volcanovsky just super doesn't want to fight that dude again, which again, I'm not actually knocking Volko here. Like, I think that's fair.

He's beat the man twice, like wanting to fight him a third time. It does feel a little bit like, all right, let's just keep spinning the wheels here. So I think I think Holloway needs to get some wins. But I think in my mind, it feels like Holloway is just going to fight Korean zombie. That seems like they've both been around the block for a while. They are, you know, two legends of the game. And I think that fight just makes sense. And so, yeah, I think Cater, you know, he's coming off that shalacking from Holloway.

And so maybe loser coming against the winner, maybe that's something Sean Shelby decides to balk out a little bit. But, yeah, I think that that's where we're coming here with those two. Or, no, maybe Zabit does want to fight at some point. And they do a Zabit fight. I think, but yeah, I think the winner of this puts themselves, if not in a title eliminator, in a title eliminator, Eliminator, next, basically. And so, yeah, I think the stakes here are pretty high,

especially for Barbosa, who I know Chikaze, as Spencer said, he's a little older than he might think for a guy we're considering a prospect, but he's relatively young in fight years at least. Barbosa, he got some city miles on him and a lot of hard, hard fight. So he losses here really, really set him back if he's trying to fight for a title.

And if he doesn't, And it would be a real shame because if he ends up being one of those guys like a Jacaree who top five guy forever and just couldn't quite get the wins and have the timing break right and never fought for a bell, that would be a bit sad. So he certainly has a lot at stake this weekend. Yeah, I feel if there's like a Mount Rushmore of like underappreciated fighters, Edson Barbosa is probably on there. If not, he's like next in line.

He's the top five underappreciated guy in UFC history, in my opinion. So that is a great fight. Potential 25 minutes of Edson Barbosa versus Giga Chikaze. That is just a lot of fun. But there's more going on with this card. And we will talk about that in a matter of moments. But the point for round three goes to we're going to Canada. Two to one for Spencer Cite.

Good round. Good round. But let's talk about another very intriguing storyline heading into Saturday. The return of Kevin Lee. Yes, the return of Kevin Lee. not just the return of Kevin Lee to the Octagon, but the return of Kevin Lee to the welterweight division. He was supposed to fight Sean Brady on this card.

Sean Brady had a nasty infection. Saw some photos of that leg. It was disgusting, but apparently from all indications, a couple of weeks, Brady's going to be back to training. But stepping in is Daniel Rodriguez, who has just been on a tear since coming to the UFC. I had a chance to speak with Daniel Rodriguez right before I went on vacation. And what an interview that was.

Hopefully that gets to drop pretty soon for you guys to check out. And he's very hungry and very ready for this fight. So let's just start with you, Spencer, on this. Keep it simple. Kevin Lee versus Daniel Rodriguez. Is this a must win for Kevin Lee? Does he have to win on Saturday? I mean, he didn't until he went on the MMA hour and said all of the things he said.

I mean, Jed mentioned earlier that Kelvin Gasselum and Darren Till have this ability to fail upwards and, like, continue to, to rise in esteem in people's eyes or hold esteem in people's eyes despite spotty records. Kevin Lee's one of those dudes to me, man. He's out here, like, I have to. I mean, look, we all know Ariel is the utmost professional

in those settings. I got to give him credit for not, like, falling out of his chair when Kevin Lee said he was a top five welterweight and saying that it's too bad that Khabib retired when he did because he didn't get to face any real elite competition, believing himself to be that elite competition.

So I mean, before that interview, this was, all right, let's see what Kevin Lee can do after losing to the guy that's now the lightweight champion, comes off that terrific finish of Gregor Gillespie, the only man thus far to beat Gregor Gillespie. And you go, okay, let's see what he does when he enters back into the welterweight fray. then he goes out and talks all of this mess and puts himself in the top five and dismisses everybody when he's got zero welterweight wins

and is going against the guy in Daniel Rodriguez that is tough, that is legit, he has four wins in that division since Kevin Lee last fought. So it's not like he's going in there against some nobody that has no business being in the cage with him or one of these dudes that he beat when we were giving him a whole lot of credit

and attention on his way up but lightweight, and he put this giant target on his back, set the bar exceedingly high when it didn't need to be. And so, yeah, this is absolutely must win. I wrote about it this morning, man. Like, this guy might be top five, but we sure don't know, and we're not going to see it until he proves it. And I just don't think he can prove it.

Like, this is a dude that puts himself in this category with zero evidence to back it up. Like, there is nothing right now to back it up. as great as that Gregor Gillespie knockout was, Gregor Gillespie is the number 10 lightweight in the world right now, or in the UFC right now. That's the best win he's got. If the best win you have is the dude that isn't even in the top five yet and you haven't beaten anybody that's in the top five,

you probably shouldn't go around saying all of these dudes that are far more accomplished than you really aren't that good and you could take them all. What do you think, Jed? You laughed a little bit, but must win for Kevin. Lee on Saturday? Well, I laughed that Spencer said he might be able to prove it because Kevin Lee very clearly

came. I'm going to be serious for just a half second because I just want this point to be made even if my heart doesn't feel it. He has, his best win is probably not Gregor Gillespie. In hindsight, it's probably

Michael Kiesa, who is in fact a top seven welterweight. And I assume that that's where he's getting the basis for the top five welterweight. Granted, that was four years ago and had a different weight class, but that's still probably the best win because as much as I have spent years saying Kiesa is not good, I have turned the corner and I'm willing to accept that he is at least a solid welter weight. He has finally, his loss to Sincere luke actually proved to me that he is a competent

one-seventh year. And now I'm going to say, I have a lot of feelings about Kevin Lee. I got a lot of thoughts, a lot of emotions, because there's a part of me that has nothing but respect for Kevin Lee. Because as a man who has made a career out of just saying stuff, I respect Kevin Lee's game just say stuff without basis and fact or logic of reason. You can't look at this man and what he's done and say anything bad about the absolute moxie it takes to straight-facedly say, yeah, Hague never fought a good wrestler.

and I would have been a challenge. Kevin Lee, who made the national tournament once in college. Also, Habib's last fight was against NCAA, All-American Justin Gagee, who he beat the freaking bricks off of. So just throw out that argument in the face of it. He says, he Chris Tucker's his way through it by just saying stuff. And so I got to respect that. But as Spencer pointed out,

Kevin Lee is another dude who fails upward and that's the thing. I respect that about Kevin Lee because he fails upward by just saying stuff. Darren Till does it a lot too. Kelvin Gasolam, I don't really know how he fails upward because it's not like he's some charismatic dude on the mic that people are that interested in hearing him talk.

But like Kevin Lee, I get it. He's got fashion sense. You got to respect the man's fits. He's always looking clean. But he's not very good at actually beating real opponents. He does have some good wins, which is that's huge, as we've said. but he has a lot of he does a lot of that losing to good people and the best thing about Kevin Lee and won't be forever it will never not be the best thing about Kevin Lee is that he lost

to ally Quinta in the funniest fight that I've ever seen because he very clearly was a better fighter than Ally Quinta and just just couldn't figure it out like in cage you're watching his brain melt and not be able to fight and then this dude freaking a month later it's just like yeah i would beat habib i could not i could not beat al i quinta who habib jabbed to death i couldn't fix that puzzle but i'd whip habib the best lightweighs ever whip his ass so you gotta respect him but he's insane and i think he's gonna be not by d'raudriguez because the last time we went up to welter you didn't work out too hot for him i was like it's washed ass r d a like come on man like

That's the craziest part of this, right? Is that, like, he's 0 and 1 at Welterweight. And Welterweight feels like it's just, I haven't figured out how to cut weight properly and manage my diet and be professional about all of this to make 55. Because he could be a, like, I think he could be a contender at 55. He's got some skills. He's got some talents. He can't.

But he just can't figure it out. He can't, because that's the problem. Nobody is doubting that man's talent. Kevin Lee is legitimately one of the most talented fires I've ever seen. This kid can do a ton of stuff, but he, I don't know if it's a mental thing or if it's a conditioning thing because he just tend to wane as fights go on. But he just can't put the pieces together in a functional way. That's not a problem you fix. And it's really not a problem you fix when you say the things that Kevin Lee does.

It's like with Connor. Like Connor has an infinite amount of talent. and he could make a comeback, but he's not going to because he can't register that, like, what I'm doing doesn't work. And this is not actually good. Like, he's just, he's in his own world of stuff. And Kevin Lee's a lot like that. And I'm like, yeah, man, like, the last time he went to 170, he fought a puffed up lightweight, couldn't get the job done. Now he's fighting a legit welterweight who's really underrated and a really scary dude.

And, like, I don't know, man. I just, I got a lot of respect for Ally Quinta because he accomplished a lot, despite, having minimal talent. But like, if you can't figure out of Quinta, I don't know that Daniel Rodriguez and the hammers that dude throws are a thing where you want to be figuring it out. Like, I'm with Spencer. He, 155 is a division he should be.

I know he's too big for, he needs a 165 because five pounds. That maker breaks the weight cut, I guess. I know. But like, he's just a lunatic. And I vacillate between thinking he's hilarious and charming. and out of his friggin mind. And so, yeah, that's sort of our statement, Kevin Lee. He's also set to compete on Saturday for the first time with two surgically repaired

ACLs. Let's not forget that part, too, because that's probably important in the whole super athletic fighter thing, now working with two reconstructed knees in the last 18 months. Yeah, but Habib would not have been able to do anything against him. But he's top five, because what have, what, what? What does Vicente Lucay and Stephen Thompson and Gilbert Burns bring to the table? You know who he is? I just realized, and this is why I can't hate Kevin Lee in the way I don't like a lot of other

fighters. He's J.R. Smith. J.R. Smith is unquestioned my favorite basketball player of all time. Because that man has more rational confidence to any human being in the world. And I feel in a lot of ways that I have a lot of rational confidence. And so it's a kind of spirit.

And I love J.R. Smith like a shot, like my own child. I love to watch that dude relentlessly jack up 30 footers with no regard for sanity or decency. And Kevin Lee is a lot like that. And so my smart brain wants to be like, dude, you're insane. But I just can't hate him because he's so insane that it's adorable. See, and as soon as you said that, the image that popped in my head was a different former, former Laker. And that's Nick Young when he flew out to three, that he turned around and threw up to celebration. and it rimmed out or Kemba missing one and doing the little shimmy and it rimmed it.

That's Kevin Lee. The Russian confidence guys are the best. They all be best. I'm calling Schrodinger's fighter today because he, hey, maybe he could be, but he probably isn't and we're going to have to find out. And he's like, we haven't even really touched on Daniel Rodriguez, which we should because this is. You mean, I did.

I said that man's dope, but I was too busy dropping references. You get comedies. and J.R. Smith references for me, that's what I'm bringing to the table, Spencer. He's legit going to go out there and just jab Kevin Lee to death. And then Kevin Lee's going to come back on Ariel's show and say that he deserves a fight with Kamar U.S.man. And might get it in today's UFC.

But this is where we are. We will, yes, Daniel Rodriguez is a very interesting individual. This will be a big win for him. And hopefully Daniel Rodriguez will have the opportunity to be on Ariel's show. if he does get the victory. So we will move ahead in the interest of time. But the point for round four, surprisingly, you know where it's going. We're going to the knockout round, ladies of gentlemen. It is time. One question will decide at all. Each of these gentlemen will have one minutes to answer said question. I think it's pretty obvious where we're going, since I didn't

ask what I would normally ask during regulation, but we're going to ask it here. So get excited gentlemen. And then at the end, I'm going to just pick the winner, all right? It's just going to be based on here. Don't be mad of me. Don't be mad. Nobody get mad. All right. Double knockoff? I'm just going to go with what comes to my head. Maybe it's a double knockup. Maybe I win. Maybe I be both. Maybe I be both of them. And I become the champion and I defend against these guys. So Jed, what do we think, man? Are you doing the normal champion's prerogative move and passing it on over to Spencer? I'm going to pass because I know what the question is going to be. I felt like I was going to be. And I have like,

10 answers. And so I can pass and just let him run with whatever he wants to go with. And then I'll just come over the top. Because I got backups on backups this week, baby. All right. Well, I'll have you know, Spencer, that last week, Jed was asked this very question. And if I didn't tell him that J.J. Wilson didn't miss weight by four and a half pounds, he would have wax poetically about that fight and would have lost the game before the knockout round. To be fair, that happened like while we were recording. That is not true. It was like two hours before. I have a job, so my bad. That's all good. All right.

Spencer, I think you've been on the show long enough to know where I'm going with this. There's three words we like to use pretty much weekly on this program, because we want to try to make these UFC cards as interesting as possible. This one doesn't really need it because it's really good. Last week needed it desperately. So my question is for you, what is the low-key bang? of UFC Vegas 35. And if you want to go a little deeper, you can.

What's the low-key-banger the weekend? All right? There's a lot of different events. One minute on the clock, low-key-banger. Your time starts right now. The low-key-banger is the bantam-weight finale from Tuff 29 with Ricky Tersios and Brady Hestad. Ricky Tersios is one of these, like, Mercurial,

kind of got a little bit of Diego Sanchez to him. He's fought some tough guys. His two losses are Boston Solomon and Manna Martinez, who also makes his UFC debut this weekend, is an interesting prospect coming up. But he kind of feels like he's figured it out. He had a couple fights with Adrian Yannes, canceled.

He looked good in the house. He looked good throughout the show. Really interesting dude. And Brady Hested is trying to become the third fighter from Sikh Jitsu to win the ultimate fighter, joining Michael Kiesa and Giuliana Pena. He's 22 years old. He's a firefighter.

as well. He's a grinder. He's one of those guys that for the first time in a lot of seasons could be a really young cat that comes out there wins this thing and sticks around. I think it's going to be a really interesting clash of styles. They were teammates, both fun to watch, should be a gem. Yeah, that's a really good fight. I like that one. There's a lot of good fights in this card. As we turn it on over to Jed Michoud. Jed, you said you have 10 of these, and let me just look real quick. There's 12 fights in the card. We talked about two of them already and Spencer just got rid of one. So you have, I guess, nine fights to choose from,

or you can go as deep as you want. So we're going to put one minute on the clock. Low-key-banger of UFC Vegas-35 or low-key-banger of the weekend. Your time starts right now. Well, that's the thing, Mike. I'm not trying to go just the UFC car. But first, let me say, totally on board

with the Tertio's high-stock fight, except for the fact that Sigitzu doesn't believe in leg kicks. So block on that fight. I don't want anybody who doesn't believe in leg-stack. kicks to win shit. As far as the UFC goes, low-key-banger for me, super obvious,

Gerald Mearsharv versus Mahmoud Mordov. Mark Murdov is actually good at fighting in his last fight out. He got a slow start, but then he turned it up, flying me. And Jailen Mirochart's just hilarious

because that man knows how to win or lose in violent fashion. Like, he talked a whole mess of crap to Hamzaa Chimaya and got blown up in one of the funniest outcomes I've ever seen the fight.

that fight's going to be awesome but frankly i can't believe i'm saying this because you know my stance on them the pfl this week is really good like the featherweight tournaments come to ahead and the brinanan mavela kabilov fight i've butchered both of those i'm sure that's a really good featherway fight we talked earlier about featherweight being you know one of the best divisions in the sport and those guys are right there man they're right there so i am surprisingly really interested been watching the main event and nobody's talking about PFL this week because it's BFL. Spencer,

you have anything to add? I owe you like 15 seconds. I mean, Jed's not mistaken that the PFL fight is a good fight, but I mean, as he said, nobody's talking about it. Yes, that means it is low-key, but it's so low-key that nobody's paying the damn attention. So can you really award a win to a guy

that's talking about something no one cares about? That's a pondering thought, there. All right. Time is up. I've got to make a decision here. I'm trying to think of if anything else coming up this week. Okay.

So we'll obviously have a preview show for UFC Vegas 35 coming up on Friday. Get ready for that. There'll be a pre-fight show on Saturday right before the event. Sunday, all about Paul versus Woodley. I should be on... I'm down. I might actually be around for that one. I'm definitely going to be around for the...

coverage on Sunday. That's for darn sure. You know I'm down. You know I'm down. It's a school night. Can you do post-fight show too? We can maybe make it work. All right. Holding you to that. That might actually sway my decision one way or the other. All right, but all great stuff. And of course, the return of the MBA hour, Mondays and Wednesdays. I am delirious. I'm tired. And it's time to make a decision.

This is a good round. Both excellent choices, but the winner of between the links this week, with Jed Mishu. That was a great final round. Both excellent answers, but the Mearshaub and Maratv are not a fancer. That fight's going to be hilarious. Look, Loki bangers are about hilarious.

I forgot. I totally forgot about that fight until you said it. They're just about ridiculousness. And Jail Mersharp, that man knows how to get God. That's what he does. Uh, both. Oh, man.

All right, Jed. 30 seconds. I'm not going to build it up. 30 seconds. What do you want to talk about? Honestly, I touched on it earlier, but I just want to give a shout-up to PFL because everybody knows me. I'm the angry, loud curmudgeon of this sport,

and I talk a lot of shit about a lot of fighters who deserve it and organizations who also deserve it. And I'm not walking back a damn thing I said because I'm not Jared Canaanere. But the PFL's offering this week is legitimately good television. Featherweight is a very good division. It might be the best division in their organization, and you're getting the semifinals for their tournament. Like I said, low name Kabula, that's a legitimate top 15, you know, featherweight going at it. And Chris Wade, Bubba Jenkins is, it is what it is.

It's still not a bad fight. And then the rest of it, like, it's honestly a pretty good card. And I gave them a shout out last week. PFL at least puts their programming on a real network. ESPN, baby. Everybody has it. You don't have to go figure out what showtime is on your cable box. So way to go, PFL.

You're doing better than the number two organization in the sport, and you're offering something I will watch on Friday night. There you go. Spencer, your thoughts, and you'll be back. There's no doubt about that, my friend. I mean, it's a joy to be on here and learn from the champion, Jed Mishu, to pick up these things, right? To understand the ways that I have to.

to go about this when Casey isn't here to judge and and when it's just playing off you know team relationships and being around on set being around on Sunday night now I had nothing to do with it you know you got you got someone I got a lot of talk shit here's a little less serious about some of this and just start coming with some of it and I listen it's swayed me every time I listen to him. It's that low, it's that low country drawl that he's got. It just, it loves you to sleep, and then he hits you with the haymakers, and it's, it's just perfect. So I appreciate being here, being able to learn, being able to educate myself in the ways of BTL. I see why he has the most wins in the show's history. Yeah, that, that reminds me, me and AK didn't ask us anything for

our matchmaking show. And I didn't read this question, but it was so funny. And I thought, about it a lot over the last couple weeks. The question was basically like, hey, I love BTL, but my one question is, does anyone actually win? And technically no. I mean, it's just like, I mean, kind of, like, I guess just in Word, but like, we all win. We're all winners. Word is more than enough for me. It's basically a debate show with like fake belts. Yeah. This is our version of around the horn. But the five. reality. Yeah.

Well, one, I don't like the disrespect for my title that's going on right now. And two, as I don't, I think it was Nick Dia. No, it's Nate Diaz. The belts are fairytales in real sports anyway. So it's like, my belt is just as relevant as Charles Olivares, undisputed lightweight title. Like, come on that note, Colby Covington, where are you at? Bring it, son.

That was a Kevin Lee line right there, Jed, to wrap up the show. Look, I got to respect that man because he just says stuff. Oh, man. All right. We are done. I am tired. And I still get more moving stuff to do.

So thank you very much, gentlemen, for doing this a day earlier than anticipated and playing with my crazy schedule. Thank you all for listening to the program once again. A lot of exciting stuff going on in the world of combat sports, the UFC, Invicta. LFA, PFL, and then we got Paul versus Woodley to cap it all off on Sunday, and you can follow along with all the action with us at mMAfighting.com. So for Spencer, for Jed, I am Mike Eckack.

Good night, everybody. We'll see you back here once again between the links next week.