MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Kamaru Usman and Jorge Masvidal’s Next Moves, UFC 261 Fallout, Nick Diaz, More

Episode Date: April 30, 2021

This week on Between the Links, host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and fellow MMA journalist Drake Riggs as they battle it out for the third time. The panel will discuss Kamaru Usman’s second-round KO win over Jorge Masvidal in the main event of UFC 261 and what is next for both competitors, Rose Namajunas and Valentina Shevchenko’s incredible performances to leave Jacksonville with championship belts around their waists and the low-key MVP of the event, Nick Diaz’s potential return to the octagon for the first time since January 2015 and who would be the best opponent standing across the octagon from him, a look ahead to Saturday’s UFC Vegas 25 event, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Drake Riggs: @DrakeRiggs_ Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So download the app today and get $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. And now your host, my... Hi energy from the iconic voice of Esther Lynn, as we welcome you to a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MMAFighting.com.

And as we say, at this time, every time the show starts, there is so much to discuss. We can do a three-hour show easily with everything going on in the world and mixed martial arts these days. but we are excited to have you here, whether it's on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, wherever you may be watching, or listening after the fact as well.

We thank you for joining us. UFC 261 was just ridiculous this past Saturday, filled with storylines, filled with emotion, and the UFC is back this Saturday for UFC Vegas 25. The PFL is back. They had a crazy storyline ridding card last week. They're going at it again tonight.

Bellator is back with a huge card next Friday. So much happening. And we'll touch on a lot of that stuff this week on the program as we have ourselves a trilogy matchup, a win a piece for both of our competitors. And today on this very program, we will have a winner

who will enter the 50th episode extravagance next week as the champion. More on that at the bottom of the program, but let's get this thing started and introduce the contestants. I'm so excited. First, and I'm sure he's not fully recovered from his trip to Jacksonville to cover

UFC 21, but happy to have MMA journalists for a number of different outlets. That's Miami News, the South China Morning Post, and at least 15 others, the Daniel Bryan of Between the Links, the Ultimate Baby Face, the Challenger, Mr. Drake Rakes. How are you, sir? I'm good, Mike. I am, yeah, just about fully recovered, you know, got back on Monday from Jacksonville. Crazy time, obviously, but I'm ready to go for the trilogy, man.

I got my ChalP shirt on American Gangster, Undefeated, Undisputed, and I'm going to do a throwback here, breaking KFA once again, Mike, the off-the-cuff days. I got my Chinese warrior mask once again on hand. And I think it's appropriate because I lost last week and all the Chinese fighters lost as well. But hey, we're here anyway. So let's go. So we got a battle of people recovering. We have a battle of people with fight shirts on. And we have a battle for the BTL title, which is currently held by this man. He is the heel. And he evokes more emotion than anybody in the MMA media game. There's no doubt about that. Let us say hello once again to MMA Fightings, Jed Mishu. How are you,

Jed? No, it's this. I'm the heel. This is absolute nonsense. I was about the confidence we do, Mike. You just come fired and takes like that. I am clearly the good guy in all of this because I'm a normal person

and not some reject from a Brooklyn barista. Clearly the good guy here. You've literally just said last week on the show that you are the keel and you thrive upon that. So I was just building on what you said. He's having an identity crisis over there.

I need you to not try and hold me accountable to my words, Mike, because that doesn't help anybody. Yes, this is a week-to-week program. What happened last week was a thing of the past. This week is a new week. And let us begin with how UFC 21 ended, gentlemen. It ended with one of the best knockouts we will see in 2021. No doubt about that.

Kamar Usman knocks out Jorge Motel. at all in the second round, the vicious right hand. The photos that have come from this punch are legendary, to say the least. But Usman was, as he stayed in the post-fight press conference, he was satisfied with the result of this fight. This guy is putting together an all-time run right now. Drake Riggs, first off, there were a number of ways this fight could have gone on paper, but to see Usman close the show like that, what did you make of his performance, the fight,

and where you ultimately surprised, that's how the fight ended. Yeah, it was definitely surprising to see essentially, you know, a one-punch knock. I know he had some follow-ups that really put out Mazbidol afterward, but, man, I expected him to finish with strikes. I thought it'd be like kind of ground and pound. Maybe he'd rock Jorge a little bit on the feet, but ultimately would get it done by pounding him out. I did not at all expect it to be just this punch where he just went straight through

Mazbidol, you know, never seen. seen anything like that happened to him notoriously. An insane shin on that guy has had so many fights and never been, you know, never been put out even close to that kind of caliber. Usman looked great as expected. You know, I thought it was a little bit more competitive, obviously, because he didn't really employ the same strategy as he did in the first fight, kind of getting his grill, just grind him out, which, you know,

you should still be satisfied with that one, Usman, but I get why this one's obviously a lot more satisfying, you know, being able to land what in my, that would be my favorite knockout, man. Just the aesthetic of it is insane. Like, it looks like one of those silly things that you'd see in like a fight movie or a commercial where like no one ever gets punched in, like the spit flies out like that or all the water coming off their head. But it actually happened. This was like one of those things that they would choreograph. And it just, it looks so nice. And it was an incredible knockout. And I think that if we were going to see something like that, we probably thought that Mazvedal would be doing it.

So very impressive, very surprising. And, yeah, Oussman is, he's the champion for a reason. If you needed any other reason to believe it, he disproved it here by putting away one of the most durable guys in the lightweight and welterweight divisions, you know, going back to his time, Mazvidal's time in lightweight, too. Jed, this knockout was so crazy that not only did like the spit

and the sweat fly off of Jorge Mazadol, but like he literally fell asleep on Usman's shoulder and Usman just threw him down and landed those last punches. I mean, it was just an unbelievable finish. There's something I didn't see coming. Like Usman winning isn't a surprise. He was a massive favorite,

but winning like that, certainly surprising. Your thoughts on his performance and the knockout in general? I think saying he fell asleep is a really gentle way to put what happened to him because he sure did it fall asleep, he got put down.

I mean, look, that's, we talked about it after the event. That is my front runner for Keo of the year. It is as close to a picture perfect right hand as you can possibly get. I mean, literally, after the completion of that punch, his shoulder is parallel to Rostradal's chin. Like, he stepped so far through that thing. It's honestly not surprising in hindsight that it knocked him out.

because if you land that cleaner shot on anybody, like if he landed that on steepe, I kind of feel like steepe's going down. That was just, it was no perfect. Like it's as good a punch as maybe has ever been thrown in the octagon. High praise, but I think it's totally worth it because, I mean,

who else has done that to Horaceville? Rodrigo damned it a lifetime ago at, I want to say, Singoku. But even that wasn't the same kind of knockout, you know, Mosbyol, honestly, it's actually, because I remember watching a video of it after the fight happened, and it's eerily similar, the punt, like, where that straight lands on Mosvidal, but Rodrigo Dam didn't just kill him, whereas Kamar Usman is obviously a much better fighter than Rodrigo Dam, and absolutely obliterated Mastradal's chin. So, sensational performance,

totally deserved post-flight bonus. I, if it's not the K-O of the year, something, and really spectacular is going to have happened. Because when you factor in everything, quality of competition, what it means to his legacy and just overall aesthetics, it's about as good as you could possibly get. So I have nothing to say other than, damn, didn't see that coming. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely up there. I think a lot of people are still pointing at Corey Sanhagen's knockover,

Frankie Edgar as a contender there. But I think this one overall was better and more devastating. but all right so and jett we talked about this a lot on the post fight show everyone has been talking about where kamar ozman sits in the pound for pound rankings the all-time ufc welterweight rankings we've talked about that clearly at this moment with all things considered habib out of the equation usman is the best fighter in the world right now it is almost impossible to argue that at this moment and i know you're thinking for nizgana but just like the overall body work you know that the activity is sent like ozman is the man in my opinion we won't talk about that here what we will

talk about is the next step Usman can take to get to that GSP level to one day, perhaps surpass that GSP level. He's not there yet, but he can get there. So Jed, Usman obviously has options right now. Dana White, and from what I've seen, a lot of other people want to see the rematch with Colby Covington. I spoke with Colby on Monday, and clearly that's what he wants. There's a big one coming up in a little over two weeks. Leon Edwards versus Nate Diaz at UFC 262. And then July 10th, we get Gilbert Burns versus Stephen Thompson. So let me ask you, do you have an answer for the who is next for Kamar Usman sweepstakes right now? Is it Colby? Or do you not have one until maybe May 16th or July 11th or maybe a date

even further in the future? Dude, Colby's not getting that fight. Come on, man. We talked about this before. One, of all the fighters who have ever existed and competed for the UFC, none are as good at shooting themselves in the foot as Colby Covington is. Like, that man excels at talking himself out of title fights. So you shouldn't believe he's getting the title fight just in general. Dana, also Dana said he was next in line, and you know my feelings on that. That means it is almost a verifiable lock that he will not get it. But there's just a number of other better contenders.

Usman doesn't want the rematch. He's been super clear that he wants Covington to get another win. Covington should get another win, beating washed ash, Tyron Woodley as your one win after getting jawed knocked out by the champion. Like, you need to put together a book of business. Like, give me a resume that demands a title shot. I'm here to tell you, I think Kobe Covington is probably the second best

welterweight in the world behind Kamala Usman. But they fought there was a definitive ending to that fight. He needs to get back on the horse, and he needs more than one win over a guy who's probably next to box Jake Paul. So he's just not getting it, especially because I think we talked about this before, man. Why do you think Nate Diaz took a fight with Leon friggin Edwards?

He took it because if he wins, he gets a title shot. If Leon Edwards wins, it's a win-win for the UFC. If Edwards does win, hey, he at least now has a win over a guy that people know, and it becomes this, like, resume-building thing. Edwards is on a one-fight winning streak because it's a no contest, but realistically, he's won his last nine ballots, with a little bit of a hiccup in there and deserves a title shot

until it finally gotten like a big name boost his profile win. It's going to be the winner of Edwards, Nate Diaz. Honestly, it probably should be Steve Wonderboy Thompson if Wonderboy beats Burns, but that's 50-50 and if Burns wins.

Similar to Covington, Burns doesn't get a title shot. He just lost. So the winner of Edwards Diaz is going to get the title fight unless they won't get real wild with it and go Nick Diaz. Drake, what do you think? Is it Nick Diaz?

Maybe we could leave him out because we're going to talk about him later. But is it Colby a fight that the UFC certainly wants? Kabar doesn't seem too keen on it. Kind of no sold it said, how can I do it better? I broke this guy's jaw, all that. Is it the winner of Nate Diaz versus Leon Edwards? Is it Wonderboy if he beats Gilbert Burns? What say you?

I hate to admit it, but I pretty much completely agree with Jed on this one. I like everything he's saying. you know, Colby, it's an interesting thing with him because it makes sense for the UFC to want that because like the Mazbidol rematch, didn't really need to happen. I think it needed to happen even less than, let's say, potential Colby rematch,

just because Mazbidol didn't even get a win when he got this rematch here, whereas Colby did, but the thing about it is the UFC always likes some bad blood, something that's kind of sexy and easy to sell to the casual viewer. they like, you know, heat animosity. Everybody loves drama.

Colby, Covington, whether you love him or hate him, which usually that's kind of how people will view him. You get people reacting, which is what they want. And when you just look at that first fight, it really was an incredible fight. And Dana says that every chance that he gets to whenever he talks about it, that it's one of his favorite fights ever. It was undeniably an awesome fight.

But Colby did get finished in that fight. It didn't go to decision, despite the fact that, you know, many people thought he might have been winning. up until that point. But I don't know, it doesn't feel, it feels too soon. And like he definitely should get another win before that. But, you know, Chad said it best that he does shoot himself in the foot. I could see him, you know, maybe holding out, depending on what happens.

And if the UFC changes their minds, he holds out, then he doesn't get it. And he's just gone for a little bit. But, you know, it makes sense for them to want it because of all the stuff that I just said there. I think, though, that, yeah, I would have loved to see Wonderboy be the guy. to get this shot. You know, just this past weekend in Mazvedo spot. I think that would have been great. A fresh matchup.

Somebody that Usman hasn't fought yet, a very unique style for Usman to fight. And just looking at how the Mazvedal rematch went, as good as Usman looked, like there were some moments where he definitely over-extended himself there and left him open to what I believe, you know, Wonder Boy definitely would have been able to capitalize on with some of those tricky head kicks and just kicks in general that he has.

So, man, that is still a matchup that I'm just dying to see. I hope we get to see before either of them are done in their careers, probably more likely for Wonder Boy to hang him up before Usman, just because people forget he is older despite still being a Wonder Boy and has a tough task in Gilbert Burns. But in terms of what will likely happen and what definitely should happen, is if Leon Edwards does get past Nate Diaz, I mean, the guy hasn't lost what since he last fought Usman,

what will have been 10 fights ago if he gets through Nate Diaz. And then if Nate Diaz, If he wins against Leon Edwards, you know for sure that that is going to happen as well. But what I would go with myself if I was in charge would be Leon, if he wins. Since we already have Wonderboy and Gilbert booked, it kind of makes things a little more tricky and you have to wait for things. And the fact that they did book that one makes you think that they will probably put together the Colby one as soon as they can depending.

I know Oosman, it was a pretty quick turnaround for him, for him. he doesn't usually fight super frequently. If you look at the Burns fight to this Mazvedo rematch, could see him wading a little bit, which could then shake things up a bit. You know, there's kind of a lot that needs to play out, I think, at welterweight, but I see Colby probably will get it, but it feels too soon.

You know, I like to see freshness. Yeah, I think Colby will end up getting it too if Nate Diaz does not beat Leon Edwards. If Nate Diaz beats Leon Edwards, Edwards, there's no doubt about it. He's getting the title shot. That's why I think they're going to wait until that fight plays out. Go ahead, yeah. Look, Drake's right. The UFC loves bad blood. Do you know the one thing Dana White loves more than bad bud fights? Sticking it to Colby Covington. Like, he's just not good guys. It would be the first time in history that he like actually got a

title shot when he was supposed to instead of doing something really dumb. Like they may come out and say, yeah, we're going to give it to him. And then Covington's just like, actually, I want $30 million because that's what John's getting or what John's asking for. And I'm the president's favorite fighter. You should give that to him. And then they're like, no. Like he's just not getting this fight, guys.

We're going to talk about it later. I will believe that Covington's going to get a title fight when I see it the same way I believe with Nick Diaz returning to the cage. It just doesn't happen. All right. Fair enough, we shall see. We got a couple of big fights ahead of us, so anything can happen at this point.

But on the flip side, we talked about last week if a loss for Mazadol here would be catastrophic. And I think that we all agreed that because he put himself in this position following that incredible 2019 he had, becoming a big star, we didn't think that it would be. Because I don't think we expected the fight to end like it did on Saturday to go out and get knocked out cold before the halfway point of the fight. So, Drake, now that we have the benefit of hindsight here, did Mazadol take more of a hit in your eyes than you may have expected him to take?

Yeah, I think that it definitely hurts to get knocked out cold the way that he did, especially being, you know, the street G's is a kind of character and this guy who's just, you know, kind of a unique badass, you know, who's legit, though, and can win. Like, you know, we see a lot of people who are talk, but can't back it up. And he's been a guy who's been able to do that, but now lost two in a row to the champion. And yeah, he's not getting a title shot anytime soon. He's got to really do something to get back at that. And even then, it's kind of like, I think we touched on it last week with Joseph Benavita's position, where when you've lost that decisively to the champion multiple times, you really, really are going to have to just clean out the division without being champion. So, and I don't think he's.

in that position to do that now at this stage in his career, nor would he, like, want to. So it's, yeah, it makes things a whole lot more interesting where he could go from here. And I could only see, like, I don't know, maybe those, those more fun fights that don't matter as much in terms of rankings. Like, let's say, Nadez loses to Edwards. And even if he doesn't, like that rematch will still be there at some point down the line.

You would have to think. There's always the possibility of Connor. at some point, you know, like those kind of fights. And, you know, Nick Diaz, who we will get to, I guess that's a possibility as well. But I don't know, I just can't see him kind of trying to work his way through the rest of the contenders like, let's say Michael Kiesa, if they wanted to go that route, which, you know, at this point,

I think that that makes sense to do that, where they both stand in the division. That'd be great for Kiesa to potentially launch himself up the ladder even further. But there's no way that, you know, Azvedal is probably going to take that. But it's very weird for him now. I don't know, maybe he could move to middleweight. Probably a little bit too extreme.

He'd probably be pretty outsized there. But I don't know. I think it's more of just kind of those fun, not as meaningful fights at this stage, which they were going to be there no matter how he lost, but it feels like he's kind of more going to be stuck in that way, unless he really wants to, you know, change things up and prove, you know, that he can still get back there

and work his way that Joseph Benavides route, but I don't know about that at this stage. What do you think, Jed? Was this loss a way bigger hit to Mazdaal stock than you predicted last week? No. I mean, it did nothing. Like, sure, he lost in a more dramatic fashion,

but everyone kind of thought he was going to lose except for me because I talked myself, apparently you, Mike, into believing for him off the damn thing. And let me just say, after round one, I felt super good about that, too. I was like, oh, Hussman is getting real wild with it,

and he ended the first round super poorly. I was like, this is, wow, this is, I'm going to, man, I can't wait for BTL Thursday, because I'm going to lord that over everybody. And then, boom, I'm an asshole. So, thank you, Kumar. We're sitting for making me an asshole. But, yeah, whoa, this doesn't do anything for this,

he's fine. He still is. is super marketable. Yeah, he's not going to get a title shot again, ever. And that's okay. He already has his own belt that he should give to Usman. Usman absolutely deserves that damn belt now. But he still has it.

He's got, we'll talk about Nick Diaz. You know that I don't believe in Nick Diaz, but he's still got a ready-made money fight with Colby Covington. Maybe that's what they do because Colby's clearly not getting the title fight as we just established. You want to rematch with Nate. like Robbie Lawler is kind of, it's just a fight I've been thinking about. Like that's kind of a fun one that you could do.

Connor, people will say Connor. Connor doesn't want that smoke whatsoever, so that'll never happen. But like he's got plenty of options and he's just going to make a lot of money, which is the core goal in prize fighting. So he won't be just fine.

I know Mazel spoke with ESPN earlier this week. He took the loss very well, gave a lot of praise to Uzbin and rightfully so. But what a performance. from Kamar Usman. That is a scary cat right now. And in my opinion, at this moment, I said already, I think he's the best fighter on the planet.

And there you go, buddy. My kid dropped his guitar right in the middle of BTL. And you never know what happens on live shows. But a lot more UFC 261 talk coming up in round two. But the point for round one goes to Mr. Fight Circus, Jed Mishu, on the board. There you go. That was a hell of a round. I am excited for the rest of this.

but let us move ahead to the other two championship boats from this past Saturday. And the co-made event, Rose Namuonis stopped Zhang Wei Li, not Lee Na in the first round. 78 seconds was all thug Rose needed to get it done. It was a beautiful head kick. And she is once again the strawway champion. And prior to that, Valentina Shavchenko dominated and stopped Jeskandraj in the second round. What incredible performance that was from the bullet. So Jed, let us begin with you since we've had five.

days to digest this all. We had a quick head kick knockout. The emotion Rose showed her story, all that clearly made more headlines than Valentina Schofchenko's win. In fact, if her being honest, Valentina's win isn't being talked about enough because that was an incredible eight and a half minute she had in that octagon. Who had the better performance overall? Was it Thug Rose or was it one of the baddest women on planet Earth, the 125 pound champion Valentina Shepchenko? Easily Shepchenko for me. And this is, I mean, one, we all know. I am the conductor of the bullet train, been that for a long time. But this isn't even that.

Like just Rose, not taking anything away from Rose because that was awesome. Like she did the damn thing in emphatic fashion. But anytime you're comparing who had a better performance, it's not going to be the person who had the kind of one-shot KO. It's all in comparison to somebody who put a certified ass whoop-and-down for eight minutes. It's clearly that like, look, the quality of competition in both was tremendously high. We talked about coming into this fight. These were four of the five top female pound-per-pound fighters in the world competing against each other.

And so, I mean, you're neck and neck with quality of competition there. It is super impressive that Rose knocked out Wai Lijon, and if they fought again, I think you have to favor Rose there. But there is still totally a world where Wiley-Jong beats Roe. rose in a rematch, even if you just did an immediate rematch. We all left 261 thinking, Jessica Androge could fight a hundred times against Shibchenko, and she's just getting that same ass whoopin every time. Like, there was, there was no, she left no doubt who was the better fighter in any facet of the sport.

There was nothing. Like, that's the kind of ass beating that Androge can't ever get a title shot again. Like, she's going to have to put together a tin fight win streak for anybody to be like, okay, I guess we have to do it because she's the only person. But, like, we all know what's going to happen. Shivchenko established a level of dominance that is just so rarely seen. It is truly remarkable. And the fact that she did that against what most people thought was going to be her toughest test is incredible.

I mean, just check the stats out from that fight, man. And Androche landed 10 strikes over the course of the fight and was controlled for like seven minutes of it. It was just, it was one way traffic. That's easily my choice for the most dominant performance. If we did a beatdown of the year, like a ward, that's easily the frontrunner of that for me too. Like consummate ass kicking. What do you think, Drake? I mean, Valentina, a little longer.

But Rose, you know, kind of hearing her talk about the finish and how she set it up and how she sort of analyzed it and studied Zhang's game for so long that led to that kick? What was the better performance overall? It's not just about domination and time, but what performance stuck out more to you? Was it Rose or was Valentina? So Jed and I are best friends this week, man. I fully agree with them here.

And it's a matter of more impressive finish. That goes to Rose, I think. That's pretty undeniable. That kick was fantastic. Just slid right through Whaley's guard. She thought she was going low. went high, caught her perfectly. Before that, though, Waley, she was doing all right.

And yeah, it was only a minute fight. But, and then in terms of most impressive performance, I mean, it's undeniable. It is undeniable that that is Valentina Shevchenko. I mean, this is a woman who we kind of forget, I think, that in the past, outstruck Hollyholm. Yes, she got dropped in that first round, but then went on to just, you know, piece her up for four rounds, was able to submit and out grapple Giuliana Pena, for the most part, who was known for her grappling. and then we transitioned to flyweight, all the dominance she's had since then,

and then to now against Jessica Androch, who has been at Bannamweight, former strawweight champion, looked great in her first fight at Flyweight before this. Just a well-known powerhouse, one of the most exciting and, you know, physically imposing fighters that we've ever seen among these divisions.

And, you know, it looked like that couldn't have been any farther from the case here. And I'm willing to go as far to say, and I'm giving you a hot take right here, Valentina Shevchenko, the way that she's able to do this and how she did against somebody like Jessica Andrudge, who is no joke, like she very well might be one of, if not the most talented fighter. You know, the skill for skill for skill that we have ever seen, man. Like it's, I say it's on the same, it's getting, if not already at that GSP level. And if you look at the levels of dominance here, she's finishing, unlike GSP was able to. I mean, And I don't really want to talk about NFL, but I got to make a comparison here. I don't want to talk about NFL because my Packers are having a rough day so far. It appears with Aaron Rogers.

But so I got to make this comparison, though, because I think that Valentina, everything I just said about this skill, I don't think she's quite the goat yet because that is still Nunes. You look at accomplishment. So I'm going to make this comparison. Nunes is the goat. Tom Brady is the goat of the NFL, right? All the championships, all the accomplishments. But in my opinion, I think the most talented player and quarterback of all time, Aaron Rogers, and then fighter would be Valentina Shepchako, most skilled.

Not the goats. You can't really say that considering all the other, you know, accolades and everything the other person has. But skill for skill, I mean, it's just getting hard to deny it at this point. She's, she's flawless. Like, I don't know how you can beat her anymore. Well, one thing that you said that is undeniably true is that Tom Brady is the goat. So there you go. He was at the fight on Saturday.

So there you go. And you put Jed in such a state that you put him in such a moment. Yeah. It was like he just won Journalists of the Year at the MMA Awards. I mean, that was like, it was like he was walking up to the stage and getting ready to give his victory speech for winning journalists of the year. Look, guys, I have been driving the Chevy truck forever. And I'm glad that people are just getting on board with it and recognizing not just the cheese. better than everybody that she's fighting, but that she's so much better that she very well is,

like, I think that she's probably the best female fighter of all time, not on accomplishment because Nunes has done so much. That's just, it's going to be really difficult for anybody to surpass that. But we talked about it before, or we talked about it after the fight, like, she is so much further above the rest of her peers than anybody else in the sport. And honestly, like it's not absurd to say that that gap is bigger than any other time in in a history dating back to like the graces when literally no one knew how to grapple like she is it i have said this comically before i actually really think that if you put like her in a battle like king of the hill style just one after the other against a

gauntlet match like seven of them before somebody finally got her because she was tied like she is so good more on valentine in a moment uh but one thing is is is actually pretty interesting and clear the cupboards for both of these champions are not completely bare like especially at one 15 so we'll start with rose drake because she certainly has some interesting options there's the big fight coming up next month between carlos sparsa and jan jonan there's yawani and jacek yes they fought twice and rose won both but that's still an option mackenzie durn has looked great and she would bring a very interesting interesting challenge to Rose Namayune's.

And there is a case that can be made for a rematch with John Wei Lee after that long winning streak and being out for a year and all that. So I ask you, Drake, what do you think is next for Rose Namibunis in the second title run? Oh, man.

Yeah, there are just so, so, so many options of straw wait, Mike, you're right. And you left out Marina Rodriguez, too.

Like, I feel like she's the forgotten woman there. Maybe not quite yet ready for a title shot. But that's just another person who could very well be in that picture very soon as She has that Michelle Waterson fight coming up. What is it next week? So there are a whole lot of options at straw weight. Four rows.

And let's look at Whaley for the first case here. First option, which I've never been somebody who really is into instant rematches unless you're like a long reigning champion who has defended at just a boatload of times. Let's look at Anderson Silva, for example, when he got knocked out by Chris Wyden. I think that's a case where it's fine, Jose Aldo, who didn't get one. he probably should have against Connor McGregor. But then you look at cases where, like, Cody Garbrant or people who get these rematches after pretty clear cut finishes

and then no, not really that many title defenses, I'm not quite a fan of that. As much as I do adore Whaley, and I would love to see an actual, a real fight between her and Rose, because we didn't really get that. You know, only, what, 78 seconds of action or so? I would love to see the rematch,

but I don't think you can do it right, away, especially in this shark tank of a division with all the possibilities. So I'm going to rule out Whaley for now. She can go and rematch Yolana potentially or we didn't even mention Tatiana, who hopefully comes back. Sounds like she might be thinking about flyweight as well. But, you know, there's so many pieces that can fit together here. So for me, I think the clear cut option, it has to be the two women who have put together

the best winning streaks and are fighting each other next, Janjaun and Carla Sparza. that's just the definition of a contender fight, really. And if you look at kind of the stories in it, too, I think that, you know, a big winner out of UFC 261 that wasn't even on the card was Carla Sparza because if she wins against Janjohn-on, well, that's a five-fight winning streak. She gives Janon her first loss in the UFC

snaps a six-fight losing streak, all these things, former champion. I still feel like people wouldn't have been that interested in a waley fighting, assuming Whaley was to beat Rose. But if you now have Rose in that spot, the story of that rematch, tough 20, both of their debuts, fighting for the very first title, Carla beats her, submits her, just way too much experience at that point. Rose is very green all the way that they've come since then.

Carla is the challenger, Rose is the champion, two-time champion like that. How do you not do that? And it kind of sucks that they've already established the tough coaches because if they were to make them the tough coaches, man, you want to add to the craziness there? I don't know if that's ever happened where two former finalists have ended up coaching against each other and then fighting for a title. Like that would have been perfect, but that's out of the picture. Either way, still a great story if that's to happen. But then Janjanaan, of course, they want to get another Chinese champion, you would think. And she would be on a seven-fight winning streak, beat a former champion.

and yeah, I mean, how do you not go with her? Very exciting and similar style to Whaley. Not as much of a finisher, but how do you deny a seven-fight winning streak and just all the wins a sheet have racked up at that point. So I feel like it's pretty clear that it has to be one of them. I know I've seen not a lot surrounding a potential, you know, Valentina superfight. We definitely shouldn't do that. They're very friendly.

It doesn't sound like Rose is, Valentina, excuse me, is very interested in that either from her interview she did with james lynch what was it yesterday shout out to james so i i don't want to see any talk about that but i've seen a little bit of it so let's just not worry about that stick to the division stick to defending that title and i think do it against who will be the the definite the definite number one contender between giananan and carla agree with him jad yeah i think that's what happens next i mean you just have so such good storylines coming out of that fight. Either way it goes.

I mean, Drake talked about the Sparsa thing. Obviously, Yang Xiaonan is the UFC is clearly interested in having at least one Chinese champion. They would probably spin it up as some sort of a grudge match given what just happened to Wiley-Jong. The storylines there are too good. Everything else is just not nothing. I super don't want the Wiley fight again. because for the same reasons I talked about Covington. Like you got got, get some wins.

Like at least two. Give me two wins before you get back there. And if like that's, I don't think that's much to ask. And I think that's what we should get here. And Rose is definitely, definitely not going up to 125 because who, who is trying to go to 125?

Drake talked about Tatiana Suarez maybe thinking about flyweight. Trust me, she ain't thinking about flyweight after that ass. that the truck just handed out. She's thinking about eating more salads is what she's thinking about right now because nobody wants any of that business. Well, I didn't mention Tatiana Svarez because apparently from what I've heard through the grapevine, there's been some more hiccups, some more hiccups in the recovery. So her timeline, I know she wanted to come back in the summer.

That's looking very unlikely at this point. So hopefully we see her later on this year, maybe early next year. but we'll see what happens. But for Valentina, Jed, you are the Chevy truck driver, as you say. There's a, there are some options for her, but we're running out of them. There's no doubt about it. We got Viviani Arrugio. She's fighting Caitlin Chukagan at UFC 262.

Chukagin's out of the mix right now for the same reasons you mentioned with Colby and Zhang Wei. Araujo, a win for her could put her in the mix. A lot of people, of course, have the UFC 263 fight on June 12th between Lauren Murphy and Joanne Calderwood Circle. This is the true number one. tender fight. And oh yeah, there's another dominant champion out there who has two belts and, you know, she's got her next fight booked already with Julianna Pena. What's her? Amanda Nunes,

I think that's her name. I mean, they fought twice. Nunes won both of those. Both were competitive fights. But what's next for Valentina Shibchenko, Jen? It is probably the winner of Laura Murphy versus John Calderwood. I mean, if the UFC wanted to really, really be great, they would just book Nunes Shavchenko for later on in the evening after Nunes Haines at work to Plania. But they won't do that because

they're allergic to fun. And so since they won't do that, I think we can probably suspect that that fight, that's a back pocket fight. Like, neither of these women is losing the title anytime soon. They can pull the trigger on that whenever the hell they want to.

So they don't need to. And frankly, I did write about the site why the UFC should go ahead and book it because I think there are a lot of good arguments for it. Namely, the ultimate goal of fighting is always we want to see the best fight the best and the only way either of these women will get any kind of a competitive bout will be against each other. But outside of that, Shevchenko has other people to fight in her division. And frankly, so does Nunes at this point just because like she hasn't defended her Bannonwe

belt in like, is it like two years or no, I guess the Jamaican. to randomly fight was a Bannonweight fight, wasn't it? So yeah, yeah. So yeah, but like before that, it had been a long time. The top of the division has changed a little bit. There are still obviously the marquee names at Banimoye, but she has other people she can fight and Chivchenko does as well. And honest, I've said this a hundred times before. To me, one of the most impressive things you can do as a champion is what Kamala Usman

has done. He has beaten all the top people in his division for years. and like that's where shiftchenko needs to do that's what nunez needs to kind of redo she obviously did it once but like that's how your resume really stands a test of time is not i beat the same three people like four times it's i beat everybody for a decade and so go with that that means laura murphy john calderwood is a clear-cut contender fight and we can we can do the super fight down the line because both women will have the title pick a date in the future They will have it still. Same page, Drake? Yeah, for the most part, man. Like, I would love to see Nunes and Shevchenko three, but there are people that they haven't fought in their division still,

whether, you know, they're super highly ranked or what have you. They are there. So I think that that can wait. It'll be there, you know, Valentina kind of said herself. Just it'll happen naturally. And, you know, I feel like it's kind of naturally coming together that way. right now you could do it but again it's probably it's very safe to assume that it'll be there at any point in the foreseeable future unless like nunez is to retire which would be like the only

worry that i kind of have right now is if she was to leave before we get to see that which you know then i guess it is what it is but it's not since we've seen it twice and i know they've gotten tremendously better since then it's not super necessary i guess we'll throw that out there but um nice yeah yes when it comes to the actual flyway division, though. Lauren Murphy and Joanne Golderwood, that's obviously the one that you got to look at. But I do think that,

let's say that Jojo wins and Arrucho wins, then you've got to give it to Arrucho in that case because then she's taken out Caitlin Shukee, and extending her winning streak further. I just, I think that's a little bit more impressive than what Jojo will have done with what would it be just a two-fight winning streak? And yes, she's taken out Lauren Murphy, who has put together a great run herself.

but if Lauren wins, I think, yeah, undeniably. I mean, you could have argued that she already got, should have got the title shot in Androja's place and fought on 261 or something like that. Yes, she had the short notice fight with Chakarova, Shakarova on short notice, that is, rather than what was supposed to be Calvio, but she still went out there,

won the way she was supposed to by finishing her. So if Lauren Murphy can beat Jojo and do it very decisively, I mean, there's just no denying her whatsoever. she's very much earned that on the best run of her career. But if Arrujo looks great, which is very possible, even though Caitlin Jukegian is a very, very tough and kind of underappreciated stylistic fight for everybody for the most part that isn't named Valentina, if she can beat her, I think that that's a little bit more,

that'd be a better recent resume for her than what Joja would have done if she is to knock off Murphy. I guess depending on how she beats Murphy, if she goes out there and starches her, that's a little bit different. And I know that Jojo's been just oh so close to a title shot pretty much for whole career. Going back to Strawweight, you remember when she choked against Marina Morose. Like that was kind of a set up fight, didn't quite make it, then has had some struggles here at flyweight, even though looking, that's her optimal division and everything. So kind of, it's a lot more up in the air and interesting, I think, if it does play out where Murphy loses and Arrucho wins.

But Chukajian isn't going to slide in there no matter what happens, I don't think. so it'll come down to Murphy or Arrujo maybe best performance out of those three if Jojo does get it done but I think it's pretty safe to assume that it'll be one of them Mike can I change my answer? Sure, quickly. So as he was going through the list of people

that might end up fighting Shibchenko all I could think was well that is just awful mainly because they are good fighters who have, like, I would actually put it as zero percent chance to beat her. Like, there's just, there's not a mechanism by which Lauren Murphy or Vivian Rujo could could defeat Valentina Shvchenko. So we got spiked. I think we go with a handicap match where Shvchenko, like, can't pick or like she can only

use her left hand. Like, let's, let's restrict her to at least make these competitive bouts, potentially. I'm not even going to say a competitive. But, yeah, let's, let's get her. get a little fight surrogacy with it because I'm not watching it, but if Lower Murphy is the next title challenger, deserve it or not, she's going to be a minus,

like, Chirchenko's going to be a minus 4,000. I don't even think that's, like, joke. She might actually be a minus 4,000 favorites. And that would still be good odds. Unreal.

Well, listen, if you miss 261, you miss a damn good one. We're going to move ahead. we're going to do some deep cuts, but we'll save that for another time. But we're going to head to another big storyline coming out of that event. Point for round two goes to the Chal P. T-shirt wearing Drake Riggs.

He is on the board. It's one-to-one. This is fun. I feel like I've been hosting the show for five minutes, but we're approaching marathon territory here. But that's okay. Let us move ahead to Jedmishu's favorite topic in the entire world, Nick Diaz. Yes, he was in Jacksonville. He got a lot of attention.

He looks to be in the best physical shape of his life these days. And Dana White said that he wants to come back, that he wants to fight. And there is something that, you know, that's something we've been hearing about for several months now. It seems like he's taking it very seriously. He's done test weight cuts, et cetera. Now, there have been reports out there already that a fight was offered already for Nick Diaz to fight Hamza at Shamaa for what it's worth.

I'm told that that is not wholly accurate. That certainly doesn't mean it's not an option. It seems to be an option if you watch Dana White's press conference after UFC 261. But in terms of something formal being offered in regards to that fight, I've been told that that's not 100% true. But anyways, Jed Mishu, the Nick Diaz train has apparently left the station again. So my question to you is, where's it going? Who should that opponent be for his return?

It left the station, if you mean, it's like one of those old westerns where the track like stops just like over an abyss and the train careens into that abyss. Because the man isn't fighting again. I'm sorry to be the bearer of realism and normalcy. He hasn't competed in six years. He hasn't won in a decade. He's just not going to fight. You know why I know this?

One, again, Dana White said he was interested. So obviously just go with the exact opposite of whatever Dana White said. You're going to be right more often than not. And two, Nick Diaz has been coming back to MMA for like a decade and he still hasn't done it. He and Brock Lesnar should have just a group text where all they do is say, hey, man, it's really fun to fuck with Dana, isn't it? Sure is. It's awesome.

Brock's just like, yeah, man, I use it to leverage more money out of the WWE. And Nick's like, I don't really know why I do it. Sometimes I think maybe I want to fight, but then I'm like, nah, I'll just go nunchucks some stuff. and I'm good. Like, he's not fighting. If he does, I will, I've told you this in the post-fight show, I will believe Nick Diaz is fighting three days after the fight has happened and not a minute before. Like, I don't care if they are, one, we've seen fights get canceled with one dude in the cage. I don't care if Nick Diaz is walking out to the cage until the door closes they've thought, we have gotten all the tests back, and I can wake up to confirm that it was not a dream three times.

I ain't buying it. A little peek behind the curtain. This was not the original third question, but it became the third question, and that is the exact reason why it became the third question because I couldn't wait to hear what came out of your mouth, Jed. Drake, where is this train going? Do you agree with Jed that he's just not going to fight

that we're being sold, you know, coincidentally enough wolf tickets here? Or do you think we're serious here? Who should he fight? Let's be positive here. Let's just say he does fight. Who does he fight? Well, first of all, yeah, I'm fully in the same camp. I'm all team heel when it comes to Diaz talk.

So I'm with Jed once again here that, yeah, the man is just, it's all lunacy at this point. I don't know why people continue to believe or have excitement even for Nick Diaz coming back at this stage in his career when he hasn't won a fight it so long. And quite frankly, his last couple of fights weren't even that good or exciting. He lost very clearly and the only thing we remember about the Anderson Silva fight is him laying down, which that was cool, I guess. He didn't do anything besides that. Like, I don't know. No interest in Nick Diaz coming back. It's not going to happen.

I will believe it when I see it. But then again, it's just not going to happen. And if it does, it's not going to be good. So sorry to be the bearer of bad news, everybody, but that's just how it is. But if, if, if in this big fantasy of people still having interest in Nick Diaz, for whatever reason. If he was to come back, I've always said that the fight that I would want to see

because I don't think he's going to be competitive with any top guys, you throw him in there against Madsville, which would be a fight that I could see them trying to do or even a Hamzat. It's just not going to go very well for Nick Diaz. That's just, that's just where right now. But a fight that I have always said is to do the one to make.

Do Dan Hardy. Why not? Let's get crazy to do something like that. They're similar age. They haven't fought in who, just forever, you know, nearly decades and haven't won in a very long time. I think that that style is going to be a fun one. It's a winnable fight for Nick Diaz. Maybe it's hard to tell with Dan Hardy, which that's kind of the whole thing about Nick Diaz

fights is you don't really know how he's going to look, but you know that it's not going to be good enough to beat the best guys. I think we're at the same stage there with Dan Hardy, obviously. Or another one that I think would probably be on that same level, but a bigger seller one that shouldn't quite be a main event, but you could do as a co-main event, maybe a five-rounder if they wanted. How do you not do the Carlos Condit rematch,

which is one where, yes, still so much controversy around that. People love to say, what is it, 1-25 Diaz, those are the rounds that he should have won from that less than stellar fight. Again, one that wasn't very exciting of Nick Diaz's in his last so many from years ago. and Carlos Condit has finally gotten two wins back to back again, but he's still not that same natural-born killer that we're used to seeing. So it's right about perfect there, you know, in terms of winnable for each of them,

but not too ridiculous in terms of giving Nick a fight. He doesn't quite deserve. So that's one. Yes, I just saw the Robbie Lawler one pop up there too. That rematch could be doable. But I don't know. I lean more towards Dan Hardy. ridiculousness or Carlos conned it, I think that that one writes itself.

Yeah, I just, I just want to throw out there once again, I hate the idea of Nick Diaz and Hamzaat Shemayev. Like, I could not hate that anymore. And like, sure, it would be big. It would get a lot of attention. And, you know, Shamiyev had this massive start to his UFC run. He was in the running for freaking fighter of the year down the stretch of 2020. But the guy had like this horrible bout with COVID-19. He's still recovering. Yeah, he's training and he seems to be in a better place and he'd be a gigantic favorite in this fight with Nick Diaz more than likely, who hasn't fought in over six years. But one of the big reasons I don't like it, it's already risky enough booking Nick Diaz

against anybody, right? Maybe he loses interest or the money isn't what he wants and maybe he didn't read the contract correctly and just says, screw it, I'm not fighting. And then you have Shemayev who, because of the long-term effects of COVID, has had the withdraw from the last couple of Leon Edwards dates, it's just incredibly risky when you have other options that both of you mentioned that would be pretty interesting and they're all right. So Jed,

can you take the bait at least? Let's just say like, let's just say like, we're not in real life right now. That like we're in a dream world. All right. And Nick Diaz is fighting in this. Yeah, Nick Diaz is fighting in the main event of UFC Fantasy Land 1.

Who's Nick fight? First, let me say, I think my, you should award the point for this round to yourself because well done. Just way to get. a head full of Steve and just carry it through there. In Fantasyland, you have a great sound job.

Great sound drop, Casey. In Fantasyland, Jorge Mosphidal is probably the fight, just because, I mean, there's the, Jorge's kind of already said that. Hey, Nick, you want to get one back for your brother? Like, I'd want to do that for my family. I think you've got a lot of an angle you can build with that.

It's probably a whitewashing. for Moswell, like he probably works him because, again, Nick Diaz is 37 years old and hasn't fought in six years. He's probably not very good at fighting anymore. And that to me makes the most sense because when he, if we're living in this fantasy world, when we take everything that's being told to it is true. What Nick's agent, manager, whatever said was he wanted to fight a guy who's going to get him back in, you know, the top 10 guy. And all the top 10 guys don't make any sense it all for Nick Diaz, basically, other than Jorge Mastradol. And so that fight has a lot of legs.

If it's true, I would say that that is the most likely fight. If we're really fantasy matchmaking here, I think Robbie Lawler makes the most sense to me. They fought like two decades ago at this point. They are both old. Lawler has at least been competing, so he's probably not as old and bad as Nick is. but to me that's what you do. I'm fine with the Carlos Condit one. I just want to be clear.

That was the first UFC event I ever attended. I was in the nosebleeds of that one. And I could tell you very confidently that Carlos Condit won that fight. And everybody around me was super mad that Carlos Condit won that fight. We definitely did. And I could see that from the rafters. So, but yeah, run that back would be fine too. Like, you just can't put him in against the Hamzaat Chamaev or, like,

Leon Edwards or Colby Covington. You just can't do that. So, yeah, you've got to find that kind of narrow window of either huge star or old star and just make it happen in there. The one fight nobody's talking about. Maybe they should be. BJ Penn, let's run that one back. We're already living in a fantasy world.

Maybe BJ won't be awful anymore and they can rematch there. Let's do it. Oh, geez. I knew that I would get Casey's so angry. In better than DJ going to get knocked out by Jake Paul in boxing. Oh, man. All right, real quick, Drake, on a scale of zero to 10, how likely is it we see Nick Diaz fight in 2021?

0.5. I'll give him a half a point. Fair enough. All right. Well, listen, as we'll see what happens, you know, fantasy world or not. You want to, go ahead, go ahead. Do we already know what you're going to say? It's a negative.

It's very much like with Valentina Shavchenko over Laura Murphy, it's negative 4,000. Oh, man. We'll see what happens. I'm, I don't know. I'm like it at three. But I'm more in the believe it, I'll see it. I don't need to see it three days later to believe it. The walk, the buffer, the first punch thrown, and I'll believe it.

But we'll move ahead to this weekend. And our final round of regulation, the point for round three goes to, I mean, I feel like if I don't pick Jed, no watch the show anymore. Because the people have spoken, and I can't not give him the point. So there you go. Jed is up two to one. You just feed me up right there. But listen, it's okay. because as difficult as it is to move ahead from this past Saturday night,

we didn't even get to everything I wanted to talk about. The UFC is back in action this Saturday as well. They're back at the apex. We go from 15,000 fans to like UFC employees and some media members in the apex for UFC Vegas 25. Really good main events between Dominic Reyes and Yuri Prahashka at 205 pounds, Drake. I know these post-paper-view hangovers can be real, especially after what all went down in Jacksonville.

I mean, hell, you were there to witness it all. But I guess where would you gauge your excitement level for this Saturday's card? Boy, if I was to go out of 10, I would say I'm like a six and a half, but I feel like it's going to ramp up here like by tomorrow when we see kind of the face-offs and everything. I love Yuri. I'm a big fan of Dominic, too. I'm really excited for this fight.

it's kind of the thing I'm most excited for you know this card is all right there's some people in particular that I'm kind of excited to see more so than maybe the matchups I strong Sean Strickland is back against Yotko that'll be that'll be interesting Sean Strickland is absolutely insane not just as a fighter but you know as a individual um you know and there's some other people on the card as well cub Swanson's back in the co-main event which a Cub Swanson co-main event in 2021 is kind of like it is what it is and taken on Giga Chikaze, who finally this guy is kind of getting a name and step up of sorts. So that will be fun.

But yeah, I think that the hangover from a very big and insane card, like you mentioned there, it's very real for this one because I think that this card probably will deliver and be pretty fun, but just in terms of getting Uber excited for it, a little tough, you know, a little drained.

But I'm very much excited for the main event more than anything, just because, you know, I've been following Yuri for quite a while now in his rising career, the rising champ. And then Reyes, too, I followed him since before he was in the UFC as well. And it's been great seeing what he's been able to do. If he can rebound here off a very tough loss, Dion Blahovich. You would have to imagine that this will be the number one contender fight for the light heavyweight title, which adds a little bit of something to it.

So, yeah, I guess right now I'm kind of six and a half-ish, but I could see it ramping up tomorrow after Wands and whatnot. How am to you, Jed, for this Saturday? I mean, Drake's in the neighborhood, probably five, probably a little less. Like, it is, it's a deceptively good carve in that it has a lot of competitive matchups. Some of them are important and matter as well. It's pretty low on name value. The main event here is doing a lot of the heavy lifting.

That will be super fun. Like, I'm always down to watch your process. channel his chakra and try and knock out some dude. And Dominic Gray is apparently knockoutable. We found not too terrible long ago. So that fights fun, super competitive. But the rest of the card, the names it has maybe aren't, are really doing a lot of the lift.

It's one of those cards that I think if we weren't coming off UFC 21, it'd be a lot more excited about. But we just got three title fights. We didn't even, thank you. We didn't talk about the. that happened earlier on the main car to 261 and the night of terrible legs. And so that's just a lot. There's a bit of a hangover here.

And I think that I'm really feeling that this week of because on paper, this should be a much better car than my excitement level is matching. Yeah. I mean, the main event is, excuse me, it's great. It's a lot at stake for both of these guys. Dominic Reyes on a two fight losing streak. He's lost two title fights in a row. One was very questionable.

one was not questionable at all. And Yuri Pajasca had such a great UFC debut, a lot of hype coming in. People have been waiting for the second appearance for a long since July, since the first one. They were already to see him right back in there. And we're finally here. And with a win, there are many who believe

that Phrashka's next fight will be for the light heavyweight title against either of those two guys, Lehova Churchesha. And if Reyes wins, he is clearly the biggest Gloverichasara fan on planet Earth. But as people know, I mean, Drake, you sort of ran them down.

Gigacazade versus Cub Swanson, is interesting. Cody Stamon versus Marabda Walsh, Willie, is fun. Ewan Kutalaba versus Dustin Jacoby will be all sorts of chaos. You mentioned Strickland Yotko. That's interesting. We got Betelio versus Carolina. That's the main card. But we like to dig deep on this program.

Drake Riggs, you know this already. The low-key banger for UFC Vegas 25. What you got? Man, so I think there are a couple options here. And I'm looking mostly at the prelims because if we're going low-key, of course, he kind of have to dive in a little bit lower at the start of things. Luke Sanders in the second fight against Felipe Caleris.

I think Luke Sanders is always a guy that usually no matter what fight he's in, something kind of crazy happens. And it's usually very exciting, whether he's on the right end or the wrong end of it. So that's one to look out for Loma Luke Bunei is back right after that against Sam Hughes in a fight that she's pretty heavily favored in. But I think stylistically and size-wise, Sam Hughes actually has a pretty good chance to get the upset there.

Gabriel Benitez is back as well. Taking on Jonathan Pierce, that's one. Those are all good options, I think. I like the three of those. But for me, I'm going to take the last fight on the prelims, actually. Straw weights, once again,

back-to-back, strawweight picks for me. Last week I chose Liangnan, Arian Carnalosi, which kicked off UFC 21 and delivered quite handsomely, I would say. Randam Marcos versus Luana Pinero, though I'm going to take this week. Random Markos in a spot where this is just so blatant.

her last chance in the UFC. She's on a three-fight losing streak. If she loses four in a row, she's definitely gone. She's 10-10-and-one now. She would have a below-500 record. You could argue that she should have been cut after her last fight against Kanaka-Morata

was a very dominant loss there. And taking on Luana Panero, well, also I should mention that Randa has switched camps and has been working down in Texas for this one. But Luana Panero coming in, making her UFC debut, coming in off the contender series victory, got a great knockout over on frausto um this is a girl who is a very legitimate prospect

i could see her being she has that potential to where i think she can go very far in the strawway division as a very strong judo background and is a consummate finisher is getting much better with her striking as we've seen in that last by particular but she can just kind of she's starting to put it all together and do things everywhere and it's very dangerous wherever the fight goes her fights don't last very long because that's how lethal she's becoming but taking on somebody like randa who has been around for what, nearly 10 years now, one of the longest, the originals from the Strawweight Division, joining through Tough 20.

I believe she still holds the record for most fights at Strawweight. So all these things back against the wall for her, I think it's going to bring out the best in her. And generally, her fights, you know, they can be pretty entertaining. It kind of depends on who the dance partner is and somebody like Pinero, who, for her, making her debut against a serious veteran, like I said, most fights in Strawaway history,

in the UFC, a very big spot and debut opportunity for her. So I think that this one has all the potential to be pretty wild. They both need it a lot. But yeah, I'm going to take that one. Jed, you took a beating from a lot of people for your low-key banger pick last week since you picked the Alex Olivares versus Brandy Brown fight. And everyone was like, come on, that's not really low-key. But here we are.

And if we're being honest. That fight was a bad. It was good. But listen, the winner of that contest was me last week because the fight I picked was the fight of the night. So clearly, based on metrics and mathematics and bonus money, I won the pony there. But listen, what's yours for this card on Saturday? I'm on fire. I got two points already.

That's your second point. You're winning. You're winning your own show fight. That's it, everybody. I'm out of here. What's yours, Jed? See, you really put. me to bind with this question this week because all you know the things I like and all the things

that I like are not on the early prelims like I want to get up here and I want to give you a five minute session on why Ion Kutalaba the Moldovian um what's that dude who was in warrior that guy Joel Edgerton like that dude versus Justin Jacoby or Dustin Jacoby that's going to be awesome in what could be a terrible way but it's certainly going to be a great way but that's not low-key I can't do it. Like on the undercard, if I'm giving you the real what's flying under the radar, I'll give you one just to say I did it to fit the parameters. It'd be Mowgli Benitez, Jonathan Pierce. Pierce has proven himself to be a pretty fun watch dating back to the contender series, and Mowgli Benitez is usually a good time. It's featherweights. They're going to scrap.

They're going to mix it up all over the place. And probably some cool things will happen. like if I'm just picking fight of the night that's going to be and I can't like take the main event then that's going to be where my money's at but because I want to do this because one it doesn't matter I could say anything I'm not getting the point here so I just want us to talk for a minute

about Marab de Hollishele and Cody Stamen because most people think this fight's going to suck and they probably think it's going to suck because collectively these have been average 10 takedowns a fight and they have an average fight time of like 14 minutes and 50 seconds between the two of them. So yeah, on paper this fight is going to be boring as sin. However, neither of these men is going to be able to take the other down and we're

going to be in store for a really awful kickboxing bout between two dudes who cannot do that activity and that's going to be hell of fun and I'm here for it. So that's my pick. It's not low key because people like this matters, but it is low key because everyone thinks it's going to suck, and I think it's going to be fun as hell. All right, real quick. Last thing on this, 30 seconds or less. Drake, let me ask you this.

We got this week's UFC card. Next week's UFC card lost the main event to Corey Sanhagan and T.J. Dilleshaw. We lost Cowboy Soroni versus Diego Sanchez, although it looks like Cowboys still going to compete. Michelle Waterson versus Marina Rodriguez, the new main event for next Saturday, which is a really interesting fight.

Is Bellator 258 the best fight? card over the next 10 days? Man, I think so. You know, you got the title fight on there. You got Rumble versus Romero, Patricie Pitbulls back. Michael Page, MVP, taking on Derek Anderson, finally happening. Fingers crossed. Josh Hill's back, who was very underrated, underappreciated, I think.

Rafi Ann Stats. Patchy Mick still fighting. There's a whole lot of names on this card. I'm about to list them all. But, yeah, next week's card, it's really kind of fell in into shambles. There are still some pretty good fights on it. but, you know, we've, it's taken some hits, obviously, some fighters who, I don't even know if Tyler Santos is still going to be fighting on that card.

She was supposed to take on Roxanne Modifari. That one's just kind of rough. There's still some high points, like I said. And then this week's is pretty solid too, but it's really hard not to love that Bellator 258, man. And I'm excited for you, Mike. I can't wait to see you there. I won't be there, but see you at it. Yes.

Jed is Bellator winning the handicap match against the UFC here? Yeah, all day. It has the best middleweight in the world fighting on. Of course it's, of course it's great. Again, he's taking on Rumble Johnson. That's pretty cool. Like, when you have the middleweight champion of the world competing, like, it's going to be better than cowboy versus unnamed opponent at this point.

So, yeah, give me that. Give me the bell for a card all day. All right. Well, personally, like Drake said, I am, I will be there. I'll be there out there on Wednesday in beautiful scenic, Uncasville, Connecticut, first time on the road since I covered UFC 240, for pre-MMA fighting. So I am pumped to get back out there

and do the damn thing. But with all that said, the point for round four goes to where everybody's pointing. Jesus Christ. There we go. Well, I mean, listen, you guys have watched the show long enough.

Because we got to do the knockout round. It's our version of a tiebreaker. One question. Neither of these gentlemen know where we're going with this, although they have both traveled this road before for a little bit of a teaser. And they will each have, One minute to speak with all of you.

And once that is done, we will turn it over to Casey Lydden, the judge, who will be taking in the comments, which could help sway his decision, and a champion will be crowned. It will enter the chaos of next week's very... I'm sorry, I have to make an interruption. I'm sorry. Something's changed. We actually have a guest judge coming in today.

Oh, wow. So many things. We have a three-way tie right now, guys. Like, Mike has two points too. So, let me see who has this happened. Let me see who this guest judge is. Oh, here he is. Oh, man.

Wow. No. Oh, no. The swerve. You're evil. Alex Daly. But my ability to contribute to the stuff we write on may depend on your answer here. Just let that mail out.

Well, there we go. Special guest judge, my best friend, Alex Kaley. So I'm definitely winning this week on Between the Links. There's no doubt about it. But as I was saying, the winner of this matchup will be the champion for the very chaotic, very special. 50th episode of Between the Links next week. More on that in the moment. But, Jed, you are the champion.

Not that it truly matters in this instance because of what this question entails. But do you want to go first or do you want to let Drake go first? I'll take number two. All right. So we are back with the very popular final round segments known as, what am I thinking? Yes, each contestant will choose a number between one and four. And each number has already been randomly selected with a fighter or somebody associated with sport and mixed martial arts.

They will then use their one minute to put themselves to the best of their ability in their fighter's shoes and say what this person could be thinking in this moment. So Drake, we have four choices. Pick a number between one and four. I hate this game. I'll take four. Ah, he's going with number four. It's going with the biggest superstar in the history of the sports.

One Connor McGregor, getting ready to fight Dustin Porre, July 10th. Guys throwing charitable money and donations around $500,000 to the Boys and Girls Club. guys on Twitter calling out everybody let's get one minute on the clock for Drake Connor McGregor Riggs what are you thinking right now Connor McGregor

your time starts now everybody's talking about Nick Diaz coming back that'd be a good fight I could slap him around I already slapped around his brother twice oh man would love to do it just add more Diaz's to the name here my resume that'd be a good one handing out some chair

money here, not for a good fight foundation. That's, uh, you know, I said I would do it, but change my mind, but I'm still going to hand some out to be very nice and maybe get, get dusted a little bit, uh, riled up because I'm coming for him this time. He doesn't, I don't think he realizes a little peahead that, uh, I'm changing things up, going back to the old notorious and he's not going to see it coming. Uh, you know, it's, I'm losing it. Um, I don't know, man. I give up. I choked.

All right. I'm taking the L. I'm taking the L. Listen, Connor. Connor has had some rough moments on the mic as well. So maybe this is an accurate representation of the former featherweight and lightweight champion of the world. So I'm also.

Thank you, Connor. Yes. Jed is also awful at this. You're very much in play here. I am not going to forget. Yeah. You're a plus 110 dog right now, Drake. You were right smack in the mix.

This is a pick-um with one minutes of spare. So, Jed, he took number four off the table. One, two, or three. What do you got? I got to go with the same number as my ranking in BTL all time. Number one, baby. You, sir, are a man who has had a rough month. You've had a pretty rough month.

You suffered a loss. You got back in there. but before you got back in there, your loss was overturned to a no contest. And then you fought again last night at one on TNT4, and you suffered another loss. You are the former UFC lightweight champion,

Eddie Alvarez. One minute on the clock, Eddie Alvarez, what are you thinking right now? Your time starts now. Man, things have just not gone my way lately, and I'm not sure why, because I still feel as good as I ever felt.

You know, I've moved to, one has been much more difficult than I think I imagined. You know, maybe I should have stayed in the UFC. I could have angled for a rematch with Connor McGregor. Maybe I could have talked my way into Habeed, but I got to say, getting my ass kicked on the other side of the world by a bunch of guys that nobody's ever heard of.

That's not doing wonders from my legacy here. One is pretty cool, so I guess I got that going for me, and they still seem committed to building behind me, but Patrick kind of threw some darts at me after I got beat again. So, you know, I'm at a bit of, I still think I'm the underground king, but I'm not showing. I guess if I had to think about it, I would sum up my thoughts with really one phrase, Mike. And that phrase would be, happy birthday, AK. There we go.

Thank you, Mr. Eddie Alvarez. And just for those wondering, number two was Marvin Vittori, who's getting ready to fight Israel Adisania on June 12th. Number three was a man looking for representation, Mr. John Jones, who has been in the news quite a bit lately, is trying to get himself a heavyweight championship fight. So there you go. Those are the other two.

I hope I would be one, and I would just scream for a minute. Just be like, we haven't given the final decision yet. This could sway. Too soon. Yes, but we're going to head over to the judge in a minute. our very special guest judge. We'll let the responses roll in from the peeps. But just a heads up,

PFL coverage going on right now over at MAAfighting.com. If you're watching live, this pertains to you. But tomorrow, we're back with a live preview show ahead of UFC Vegas 25. Details to follow.

We'll have our pre-fight show with all of you 30 minutes before UFC Vegas 25 kicks off on Saturday, live post-fight show when the dust settles with Reyes and Burashka. And then the man in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen, A.K. Lee and I,

we're going to talk some matchmaking on Sunday. with on to the next one, looking into the future for the big winners on Saturday's card. But now, speaking of winners, it is time to crown one right now, time to crowd a champion who will get two prizes. More on that in a moment, but it is time for the emperor of negativity,

as he's being named, the alter ego of the Prince of positivity, Mr. Alex K. Lee, to make that always difficult decision, a.K., who's the champion? I mean, after that final round, How can I not be a little negative? I see some people in the comments that are being very generous to our two warriors here.

With JK saying this might be, this might be difficult for journalists. They practice to listen and not impose a narrative, not imagine themselves in an outside perspective. No, guys, no excuses. Come on now. You guys are better than that. Aaron is saying it's hard for a nice guy like Drake to be a D-Bag like McGregor. Okay, fair enough, true. I did see him struggling with. that. Thank you. There's the comment up there

done up by the truck. Every fiber of my being wants to go against Jed. He opened first with a threat threatening not to assist me in the speech, which was great. Ended with a mixture of pandering and also a phrase that annoys me.

It was a hell of a strategy by Jed. I would have liked to see either of you do a little bit more of an impression when it comes to these things. I know Drake, I understand doing an Irish accent would be, you know, possibly. I was very close to do it. Difficult, potentially embarrassing, borderline actionable, depending, you know, how far you went with it. So probably best not to go in that direction.

Look, I actually thought, Jed, I actually thought you did a pretty good job, Drake. I know it was, I know it was tough. Like I said, I've had this time before. It's not easy. My Leon Edwards impression was, you know, not exactly the most accurate English accent, but it was the ballpark, I like to think. And, and, and, Drake, I would have like to just confidence, Drake. Confidence because, you know, if you don't know, I always say, you know, fake it till you make it.

So you faltered a little bit. I will have to give it to Jed who I did think even, even if you had done like a great, a great, great job. You know, I think, I think Jeff's a little bit stronger. So. AK, do it. I know. I know. So, so.

Do it right. Do it right. Do it right. Of course, of course. Having said all that, I have rendered my decision. Smooth. And still, Jedmishu. There we go, Jedmishu.

The trilogy. I am shocked. I thought happy birthday, A.K. was a president to the booth. Not to you. I thought that alone would get true. You just like, through this guy. Look, Drake, Drake went 15 rounds with the villain, Jedmishu. I have nothing by respect for Drake.

and I'm sure we will see him on BTL again. So great job, Drake. But yes, today's winner based on last, just on that last round, Jim, understandable. It was a hell of a, it's been a hell of a three weeks between these two gentlemen. But, Jed, you've come on on the other side. You took an L and then you bounced back with two consecutive victories to win the trilogy. Drake will 100% be back on this program.

But 30 seconds to talk about what this victory means to you, what's going on in the M.A. world that you like to speak it on again i'm honestly stunned i really like i was intentionally fired and darts at okay and i thought he would punish me for it so okay i'm totally down to work tomorrow i'm excited about it now uh otherwise i just want to say shout to chris wyatman i may crack a bit of a joke about it earlier but uh that's horrific and he seems to be in super good spirits about it i'm handling it as well as could be expected so everybody that at your eye hall had maybe the most perfect post-fight interview

we were heard with the result of that. And so we didn't talk about it on today's episode, but I'm glad Chris Wyden is doing well and seems to be handling this, you know, with a sense of amusement or, you know, looking on the bright side of life. So, yeah, shouts to the man. Before we reveal the second of Jedmishu's two prizes,

Drake Riggs, any final thoughts from you after spending 15 rounds of this man? That's like over almost four, it's probably over four hours of your life you've spent with this man. Four too many. Nah, I'm kidding. You guys, it's been great, honestly. Thank you so much for having me on. Mike. Always a pleasure getting to work with all you fine folk at MMA fighting.

And I'm very excited for next week's edition, whether I'm on it or not. It's going to be very fun. Everybody will let you know that much. And if I'll do a quick, shameless plug, just dropped interviews with Elima Lea McFarland, got Jessica Penae coming soon, Elizabeth Rodriguez, who is a good prospect of Alex in Mexico. So I'll just leave you there with those.

And follow me on Twitter at Drake Griggs underscore. And thank you, was it, JK, for saying I got some legit stories. It means a lot, sir. There you go. Alex Cayley, the Prince Positiveity. Also, Jed, to reveal the prize you will also be receiving, you will enter the 50th episode of BT. as the champion, but a difficult road awaits you because next week we're doing a Royal Rumble,

a gauntlet style edition where it won't just be two people for the whole show. It will be several people spread out throughout the program. So we're going to start with two people. It might be Jed first. It might not be. It's a luck of the draw, but they're going to debate a topic once that ends. Whoever wins that round moves on. And that cycle will continue against a new opponent until only one man remains.

And that man will be the champion. could be a woman too. A little teaser. We've had past champions already confirmed for the program, including some rivals of Jed Mishu, Jose Youngs, Sean Al-Shadi, and the list will continue to be finalized

over the next seven days. But that will be fun. We hope you will join us. Until then, we are done. Jed, do you have anything you want to say? Because you get that look on your face. Just so we're clear. I'm three and one on Jose.

that ain't a rivalry. That's some John Jones DC stuff. Let's just be clear about rival that I have. You cheated in one of them, then. Yeah, I'm a rival with Greg Ricks. Like, that's, Drake, come on back next week. You can get that work again. Everybody can get it.

I'll enter it number one. I don't care, Mike. I'll still be standing at the end of it. But let's not give Jose credit that is not due. Three and one. We're done here. My child is doing pretend painting with a knee hockey stick behind me. So again, you never know what you're going to see on this program.

We're done for Drake, Jed, KZ on the production, AK with the judge. And I am Mike Heck, the iconic voice of Ingracin, too. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn, I think, I think is going to take you out here. But we'll see you next week right here for episode 50, between the leagues. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links, an M.A. Fighting production on the Vox Media Network. Happy birthday, AK!

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