MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Kamaru Usman Stops Gilbert Burns, UFC 258 Fallout, 170-Pound Puzzle, UFC Vegas 19, More

Episode Date: February 19, 2021

Mike Heck hosts the BTL championship match between longtime MMA journalist Josh Gross and MMA Fighting's Jose Youngs as they react to Kamaru Usman's finish of Gilbert Burns to retain his welterweight title at UFC 258, his callout of Jorge Masvidal, Alexa Grasso's big win over Maycee Barber, discuss the best of the rest from the UFC's most recent PPV, a look at the 170-pound picture, take a look at UFC Vegas 19 this Saturday, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Follow Josh Gross: @yay_yee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA Fighting Studios. This is Between the Links and now your host, Mr. Mike Heck. I have no words. The iconic voice of Mr. Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links here on MMAfighting.com. Thank you for joining us once again this week. A lot to discuss. coming out of UFC 258 this past Saturday night.

The UFC is back with another card this Saturday with the heavyweight division on the marquee. And of course, for those watching right now, we invite you to feel free to join in on the conversation. Let us know how you're scoring these rounds. We'll get the best comments in the chat up on the screen. And with that said, let us introduce the verbal gladiators this week, first making his inaugural appearance here in 2021, One multiple time winner on the program from MMAFighting.com, the host of the Aiside Live Chat, the challenger, Mr. Jose Youngs. How are you, sir?

Welcome back. I had no idea. I had been between the links 11 times, and I can't even remember all the times I lost because they weren't losses. As you all know, the last time I was on, I was unjustly robbed of a victory because Casey decided to side with, I believe it was fight circus rather than, I think it was Thanksgiving. Even Jed said he was thankful for fight circus, and I said, you know what, I'm thankful that I'm not dead.

I'm a pandemic in case he was like overrated. Fight circus trumps being alive during a pandemic. So yes, it should say eight in three. If anything, it should say 11 and no. Let's not get it. Let's not get it mixed up. Well, there you go. And now we introduce the reigning defending BTL champion looking to make it three straight wins.

He went two at O against Stephen Morocco. New opponent this week. Let us say hello to one of the OGs in the MMA media. space, the editor at large over at Sherdog, Mr. Josh Gross. How's it going, Champ? It's good. I think it's always a good strategy to talk crap about the judges before you fight. That's always a good way to do it. And I'm, you know, I have no problem with the judging so far. I think it's been great. So I don't know, I don't even know what you're talking about, but good to be back and look forward to talking to somebody other than Stephen. We played that

one out. So this will be good. There you go. All right. Let's get right into this thing. to start with the welterweight champion of the world in the UFC. Kamara Usman successfully defends his title against Gilbert Burns. A lot of storylines attached to the fight as we talked about last week. Usman gets dropped in the first round. He overcomes it, weather's the storm, and was absolutely phenomenal the rest of the way in route to a third round finish, hashtag and still. Josh, we're going to begin with you.

Usman look great, man, and it's always good to see a champion and a guy like Usman who has been so dominant, go through some adversity, come back the way he did. So let me ask you this. What was your biggest takeaway from his title defense on Saturday? What about it impressed you the most? You know, his intensity. I think he brings that every time he shows up,

but there was an intensity to watching him fight Gilbert Burns that I hadn't really felt since the Covington fight. I mean, really since he was in a war against Colby Covington. This is something that Kamara Usman exudes. this intensity is a unique trade of his. And I think that it's really a key ingredient for his success in what he's done and where he's going to go in his career. And why people are now talking about him is, you know,

he's the greatest welterweight of all the time. If you want to have the discussion, people feel validated enough in his performances. Certainly, you know, you show up and you do what you do to Gilbert Burns and you stand up to a guy who's extremely tough. Just the, he wears everything on his sleeve. and I guess that includes his intensity. I really appreciate that about Kamar Usman. What you see is what you get with him.

That's been my experience speaking to him and watching him fight. He lets you know who he is and he shows up. And I think that's what impressed me most on Saturday night. Jose, what did you think? What was your biggest takeaway? What impressed you the most? Well, what impressed me the most is pretty much what Josh says, the intensity that we hadn't really seen,

this fact that Usman has fought with the, chip on his shoulder for so long. We all remember the 30, I fought a 30% and this and that. And the fact that that chip hasn't gone away, he compares himself to Michael Jordan, he's watching the last dance, this and that, take what you want. But my biggest thing is, in terms of the greatness of Kamara Usman,

we've seen this trend before. Because remember, Tyron Woodley had that awesome fight against Stephen Thompson, U.S. 2.05, that was a draw. Epic fight. We can compare that to the Kamara Usman Colby Cummings and a fight. All of a sudden, it's a great fight. They both get to keep their belts. Yes, one was a draw, but they were both fight in the night. It's one of the best

fights of the years. The fallout performance was not great for either man. Tyron Woodley fought rematch Stephen Thompson and say what you want with that fight. I don't have a problem if you liked or disliked it, but it was not positively received by the fans. Same with Kamar Uzman when he followed that up against Hory Mazfidal. Everyone likes, he dominated that fight. Everyone complained about the foot stomps and the hugging and this and that. Oh, you Mazvall only took it on six days and you couldn't finish him. And he was getting the snoozenman treatment, all that kind of stuff, the Kamaru Dean jabs in him, and everyone was basically anti-Kamarro Uzman. Can't wait for you to lose the belt.

He goes out there and just stops Gilbert Burns, a la Tyron Woodley's stopping Darren Till in Dallas, and all of a sudden we're having a conversation. Is Kamar Usman Grace Welterweight of all time? We're having that same conversation about Tyron Woodley after he did that in Dallas, and he got his black belt, Dana White, didn't even do the press conference. He was so mad that Tyron Woodley won. And then what happened? Tyne Woodley lost to Kamara Usman.

So if we're going to have this conversation about Kamala Usman being the best, I want to see him, I want to see the next performance. I want to see him dominate again. I want to see him have another stoppage victory. And then we can legitimately talk about his Kamau Usman. I would still put him second or third right now. He's third on my totem pole. But if he can get another impressive win and do what Tyre Willie hasn't done, then yes, I can put him comfortably number two great as well to rate of all time. I was impressed by the way Kamara was able to compartmentalize like all the different emotions going into the fight.

Like one, kind of like Jose mentioned, you're fighting with the chip on your shoulder, people, the stewsman and all this stuff. Two, he's fighting a teammate and a friend of his and trying to like overlook that and downplay it and able to just take his emotions and put it in the right spot. Man, I thought that was so impressive from Kamara Usman. The guy is just, he just gets it right now. He gets it from a competitive standpoint. So he has that great performance, and he's dealing with a lot of emotions like we talked about, you know, dealing with fighting with Gilbert Burns. Obviously, he was very emotional at the end. He gets on the microphone after the victory, and he did something that not a lot of champions necessarily do.

He had a name in mind. He called somebody out. And not only that, he called out somebody. He already beats, as Jose mentioned in Jorge Mazda. So, Jose, a lot of people in social media land, I guess, didn't look too fondly upon this callout. did you think of Usman's approach following his big win in title defense? I get it. You already beat him. You want to move on. There's the Leon Edwards and the Stephen Thompsons and the Colby Covingtons of the world that people want to see. So I get why people

are upset. I had absolutely no problem in the call it because, A, they're prize fighters at the end of the day. Who's the biggest name you could get? It's Cumberton Mazur. I already stopped. He broke Colby Covington's jaw. Say what you want about Colby Covington's stick. it's probably not going to land as hard in 2021 now that most of his gimmick is kind of out the door right now. And if he's going to coach tough, which a lot of people want him to do, that will allow the division to play out. Because I even ask Kamar Uzman at the press conference, like you look at the top five, Kamar Uzman's pretty much fought them all and no one else has fought each other. Like Kobe Covington and Mazur have him fought.

Colby Covington Edwards, Masri-Dahl Edwards, like Covington Burns, Mosre-Dol burns. Like, no one is fighting each other and he wants activity. If he wants to coach tough against Mazur-Dahl, the rivalry is there. The belt is going to be on the line after and just let the division play out. I have no problem with it. If they want to do that with Colby Covington, too, I have no problem with it. But the actual Mazre-Dahl call out, no issues, considering their prize fighters. And that's probably the biggest names he can get and get the most zeros at the end of his check.

because if you're going to get in a fist fight for entertainment, at least fight for the, at least maximize your paycheck entering that fight. Josh, what do you think? What do you think of Usman having a name ready, calling somebody out, a guy that he beat less than a year ago? Yeah, not what you expect from a champion, especially as someone who's always talked about competition and, you know, winning being the most important factor in the formula

that he's trying to create. I think if you're going to take issue with him calling out Mossvedol, then you take issue with so much other stuff. in the sport, right? Because there are so many entertainment factors that come along with mixed martial arts. He's making the smart play. And I guess that's the one thing about Usman that's been consistent throughout. Like, he is a smart character. He understands what he wants to accomplish, how to get there, what's the best way to do it. And he does it his own way. So I think he's extremely comfortable in mapping out this vision of Mosvidal for himself. George is a big money

fight. People will still have interest in that. I think most intelligent fight watchers are going to feel like, you know, George doesn't have a great chance in that fight. We saw it and Ousband's been so great. And so I think that'll add a layer to this that helps Mosvidal, really? You know, if he walks in freewheeling, having nothing to lose, that's a good thing for him and it may make him more dangerous. I don't see it happening. I think it's really what sets up for him in the next two years. You know, if we are going to talk about him as the greatest of all time, it's not because he stops George Mossfod all after stopping Gilbert Burns and Kobe Covington. It's because he racked up defenses.

You know, GSP did it nine times. He's still far away from that. It's going to be another two, three years, likely, probably longer based on the trajectory of the sport, how often fighters can actually step in the cage, injuries and everything else. If he's going to accomplish that, we're going to be talking about Kamar Usman at 36 or 37, trying to break GSP's record. You know, and that, it makes sense that you want to fight guys. you probably can beat now.

I think he sees that in Mossadol. Let the rest of the welterweight division, which is a bit scrambled, sort itself out, another contender to emerge. I think we'll get it in this Balal Mohammed, Nate Edwards fight, and then let it play out from there. But don't dismiss Usman's sort of game planning here,

is gaming out the scenario. I think all of it's intentional. He knows exactly what he wants and what makes sense for him. And so in that way, I think it's difficult to criticize. Yeah, no issue with the call. whatsoever. Obviously a big gift for Mr. Gamebred, but like you guys both said, it's the biggest money fight you can make at 170. It sort of forces the rest of the vision to get things crack in,

as the kids say. So I have no issue with it. As long as it's some we're not waiting until like December 4. Like I know there's the UFC's looking at August. These guys may be hosting tough. I could care less about the whole tough thing. Honestly, I just want to see the fight. And as soon as possible. Like if you're doing it in August, no later than the summertime. Because if we wait until like November, December, then it's a waste of time. And I assume the division will play itself up by then. But Josh and Jose, I kind of want to go back to like where we rank Oosman in this list. You mentioned Josh, like two to three years.

And I think a lot of people have a hard time like comparing the two because there's like GSP's run, which is impressive. Nine wins, nine defenses, 11 championship wins. I mean, in a lot of people's mind, he's the greatest fighter of all time. And the counter argument to a lot of this is that the sport has evolved so much in the last 10 years, five years, so to speak. So maybe Usman's road to getting there is much quicker than many would think. So do you think Usman has to at least like catch GSP's numbers in terms of title offenses and title fight wins? Or can he get there sooner than that just based on the opposition that he's going to be sharing the octagon with? Not against the current opposition that we're looking at.

I mean, for the next two to three years, he's going to fight a Leon Edwards or Bilal Mohammed, maybe a Michael Keyesah, maybe a Vicente-Luke. Maybe you have young kids coming up. Jeff Neal, you know, gets back on track and wins or who knows what happens at Homsa Shemaiah, right? You're looking like deep in the pool, guys like Sean Brady or Miguel Baezza. It's like, who knows who he's going to fight really? I don't, he's got to rack up the wins. There's not a name out there. You know, the Walterweight division has always been really important in terms of dominance and competition.

That's how we've defined greatness in this weight class more than any other weight class in the UFC. Started with Pat Militj, Matt Hughes clearly, you know, we know what GSP did. And now it's Kamar Usman's time. And Woodley had a chance. It didn't work out for him. So I think he's got to rack up those wins more than anything. It's, he's still not there for me. He is a great fighter.

And quite honestly, you know, people may take issue. I don't know, whatever. But the sport is not that much more advanced from now than it was 10 years. years ago, you take a Matt Hughes in his prime or you take a GSP in his prime clearly and you put him against Kamara Usman and that is a war and a hell of a fight. In fact, I think GSP right now is among the handful of people on the planet, maybe among the top two, maybe the number one, toughest test for Kamar Usman. That's how much I think of George St. Pierre, even at this time away from the cage, all that sort of stuff that we know about his life right now. So, no, I don't buy

that GSP was fighting in lesser competition or that the guys today are more advanced. for Usman and we should factor that in. It is longevity and dominance and continuing to win and not lose. Those are the things that define this way class and that's what Usman has to reckon with. What do you think, Jose, is this a numbers game or does Usman, is there like the competition, can it match what GSP did on his resume to get there sooner? GSP is a little different, I think, because he, well, it's not Kamar Usman's fault. But every loss George had, he's avenged, and that's been a big narrative, like Matt Serres and the Matt Hughes.

So he's faced adversity, and he's overcome that. Kamar Usman outside of his fight against Colby Covington, hasn't really been in these Barnburner wars. And he hasn't really had that person that pushed him. Like, remember GSP and Josh Kosteck, like, that was a bitter rivalry, like Nick Diaz. And then even then he's like, oh, I'll fight Dan Hardy wins four in a row. I'll fight Dan Hardy. And then I'll rematch Josh Kostek. I'll welcome Jake Shields in from Strike Force.

Oh, Carl's Condit beats Nick Diaz. I think Nick Diaz won. I'll still fight Carl's Kahn at Harder Fight. And then I still want to fight Nick Diaz because he's the bigger name. Oh, I fought this big money fight. I'll still go back and take a less of big, a less fight.

And when I say less fight, I don't mean Johnny Hendricks at the time wasn't a big fight. It's like Nick Diaz is such a big star. Johnny McHennders was just racking up wins and deservedly so, got the title shot. So GSP had a lot of these things put in front of him that Kamar Usman just hasn't faced yet.

Like the Gilbert Burns fight, I was talking about this in the media room during this fight. Like, it's just refreshing. for a champion to fight the number one contender when there's no issue or B for a money fight. I think that's why that's what makes Max Holloway such an entertaining champion. That's what made Anderson Silva, George St. Pierre,

like Matt Hughes, like, next person up, I will fight you. And Kumar Usman will get there, but he's not there yet. So wins will do it, but I think there's a lot of other factors. Also, the UFC has to do an event in Africa. Like imagine George St. Pierre without Canada, without the Canadian support, without fighting in Montreal. all in Toronto like what was the I can't even remember the event like we fought Jake Shields it was the biggest event attended in the history of the UFC so he needs that he needs that image of like

Connor knocking up Diego Brando in Ireland Darren Till beating stephen Thompson in Liverpool like he needs that epic performance in front of his home crowd and it's not his fault there's a pandemic going on right now who knows when Africa will even be ready the infrastructure of sorts to hold an event like that but he can get there wins will help there's a lot of other factors of need to play into it too. Yeah. Kamar Usman in my mind. He's like the intercontinental champion of the UFC.

He's in like a very, a great division, very talented division, but it's really hard to like get to that level, you know, of the all-time greats, unless you do a ton of work and spend a lot of time, you know, notching off those wins. But the scary thing about Kamar Usman, he's getting better. He's getting better with every single player. It's crazy. Josh, you look to get something to say.

Do you have to try it? Do you want to chime out something? I'm just paying attention to you, Mike. I get stuff. Oh, well, I appreciate it. appreciate that. Well, we're going to talk a little bit more about 258 and the welterweight division in a matter of moments, but the point for round

one goes to the champion on the board. One to nothing. Good matchup. Good batch up here. There's the, there it is. So waiting to make it official. And there you go. So let's talk the co-made event. We talked about the main event. Let's talk about the co-main event.

Alexa Grasso flying under the radar in terms of build and promotional value on Saturday night at UFC She takes on Macy Barber, first fight in 13 months. It was kind of the Barber show heading in. A lot of people were intrigued about her following the knee injury, the recovery, and Grasso just sort of tiptoed through Fight Week and delivered a damn good performance on Saturday and gets the decision win. So, Jose, we're going to start with you with this question. How much did Alexa Grasso stock rise in your opinion on Saturday night with that performance and that victory over Macy Barber?

unfortunately not a whole lot because if you watch the post fight press conference i started to ask dana white so alexa groso and then he cut me off and said she's great macy barb is a gangster though and then started to talk about macy barber so the president of the company that you're fighting for is talking about the opponent you just beat unfortunately your stock rose made in the eyes of the fans the only one that matters in terms of your next career moving forward is probably dana white unfortunately and the matchmakers Mick Mayer, Sean Shelby. So when the powers at B are still

praising the person that you just beat, I think not handily, but it was a very entertaining fight. Biggest win of her career in terms of name value. Unfortunately, probably not a whole lot. Flyway division is not the deepest division in the world right now. There's a few fights that have to happen at the top

of the weight class to begin with. So Alexa Grasso probably went up maybe a notch or two, but didn't take, like, if Macy Barmer had won, it would have been she would have been right back into these big fights. And unfortunately, for Lexa Grasso, probably not the same thing. What do you think, Josh? I don't know what you've seen on social media in regards to Lexa Grasso, but how much did her stock rise in your eyes? You know, I think, I think Jose said a lot of right things there. You know, Dana White is is kind of not really paying attention to your victory and paying more attention to the other

side of the card, which is certainly not something that's rare that's happened quite often. You know, you have to get back to work, get back to the grind and show yourself in a cage again and deliver the kind of performance that she did against Macy Barber on her next opponent. So in a lot of ways, I think probably sort of in a holding pattern, but in other sense, competitively, the kind of skill she showed, coming together as a mixed martial artist, yeah, this was a step forward for Alexa Grasso, this victory. Sure, Macy Barber was coming off a 13-month delay. I had been out of the cage for a while.

really know what you're going to get, but she showed up to knock somebody's head off, very physical for Grasso to handle that, work around that, show her sophistication. I think all those were good things. You heard the way they were talking about her on the broadcast, talking about, you know, she might be the best boxer, female boxer that could go into boxing and all these sorts of things. So there are some expectations now building around Alexa Grasso, and the fact that she is Mexican is no small thing. I was in Los Angeles at the Shriner when Invicta, promoter, a fight where Dana White and Lorenzo Fritza showed up really to watch

Alexa Grasso and a few other fighters. And, you know, they were high on her after that night. And so there still is that, I think, lingering idea of what she can bring, what she can build in terms of the audience. Maybe it's not there. Maybe it's not so obvious for Dana to want to promote it. And who knows what's going on behind the scenes,

potentially. But I certainly think this is a fighter who has a lot of marketability. And more than anything, she had to win and show her potential. She did that against Barbara. I think she has a lot more in the tank. and the way she's mixing up, the striking and going into grappling,

suggests that she's not going to be a pushover for just a stylistic pushover in this weight class. She is here to stay. And the lack of a weight cut, one last point on this, I think, was a big deal. And Joe Rogan was right to highlight this. Not having to cut down to 115 is a big deal for her. Fighting at 125, I think, gives her a new life. And so people are now starting to see this in Grasso, who is a very young fighter, lots of potential still.

So I do think that she gained from this performance quite a bit. But again, you know, you probably want your boss. talking about it and I hit the boss thing bugs me but you probably want your promoter promoting you after you have a big fight and uh you know she didn't get enough of that she's got to do it on her own i think she can't yeah i mean it's sucked to watch her cut to 115 and kind of just kill herself to get there but the fight she had at 115 definitely set her up for where she's at right now so i think that was kind of a big big bonus heading into this fight so i'm excited to see where Alexa grouse does go from here but on the flip side we got macy

Barber, 22 years of age. She's made some bold proclamations. She put her goals and aspirations out there for the world to see it in here, you know, had this countdown for becoming the youngest champion in UFC history. Then you have the loss to Roxanne, the injury, and then getting on the microphone after that loss, kind of stealing some shine from Roxanne. And fans have been kind of turning against her since then. They actually were like celebrating her loss on Saturday, Josh.

They were like kind of dancing on her on the lack of parade here. So let me ask you this, Josh. what have you made of how fans are viewing Macy Barber now and how big of a stock drop did she have on Saturday? People are not stupid, right? They can identify when a fighter comes along that the UFC really likes. And, you know, sometimes you get these fighters who make good on that

and fans learn to love them and watch their career. And she still has a long career in front of her, but it's been obvious that she's been pushed and obvious that she was given matches that she was meant to look good in, especially the Roxanne fight, who I think everybody feels like, oh, you're going to put, you're going to put Roxanne down,

you're too much of an athlete. It didn't happen for her that way. In fact, it went totally the opposite. And so I think people are right to identify how she was built up, how she talked about herself, and hold it against her. I think that's totally fair to do. She wants to be the youngest champion everywhere. She wants to be the best ever.

She wants to do this. You got to show up and win. And now we've seen two fights where she didn't do it. Lots of potential there. We see the power. We see all these attributes that. attract people. They want to, they want that. The UFC wants to capitalize on those things, but she's got to show up and win. And when they don't, I think fans are, you know, right to rub it

in her face because they feel like, you know, she wasn't very kind of Roxy after that win. She's not really talked too accurately about where she is or has an accurate reflection on what she's going to do in her career. Yeah, I'll hold it against her when she doesn't live up to that. And they're well within their rights to do it. So, again, a very young fighter is someone with a lot of potential and a lot of room to grow. And she still may very well end up where the people who brought her into the company feel like she would end up one day. They identify certain fighters just feel like this is going to be a champion.

And they certainly signed Macy Barber to be a champion. She's got a lot of weight to go. She's got a lot of time to go. We'll see if she pulls it off or not. But I think fans holding it against her, not too surprising considering all of that. What do you think, Jose? Do you think it's more because Macy has been so vocal about, you know, what she wants to do and her predictions in the sport? Or do you think it's more like Josh said, like the UFC

kind of put Macy Barber in like a Roman Reins position where they were just kind of like shoved us, shoving her down our throats and, you know, we're going to push, push, push, push, she's going to be a champion. Or do you think it's a combination of the two? I think those are factors, but not the biggest factors. I think, let's not forget, when Macy Barber first burst on the scene, she beat Hannah Seifers in her U.S. debut, barely made weight, and this and that. But then she's calling out McKenzie Dern, Paige Van Zant, Montam Delaroza, like very specific fighters. Basically, if you have a million Instagram followers, Macy Barber was going to call you out. And then she did that whole weird, like, fake DM thing with Paige Van Zan's husband where she like photoshopped a DM

that he allegedly had sent her, which wasn't true and put it out there. So that didn't do any favors. Also, let's not forget the whole scandal with her, like, is she a black belt? Is she not a black belt? Hennar Gracie's saying the girls are not representing their actual jujitsu rank? Are they teaching classes as a fake black belt? Are they selling black belts or whatever the situation was? So all that drama is adding on to, A, like she's talking a big game and she's not backing it up. So yes, everything Josh says, everything you said are absolutely factors, but there's a lot of other things that go into it too. I think the fake black belt thing really rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, especially because in mixed martial arts, the terms martial arts is in there and there are a lot of legitimate black belts in this sport that probably took massive issue with it. And then she goes out there and gets absolutely dominated by Roxanne Mottifari, an incredibly high-level jiu-jitsu practitioner. It's just not a good look for someone that's talking.

And she tried to take the blueprint of like the jail son's, Ben Ascran, come in here, talk all this greasiness and become a money fighter right away. And she just didn't back it up. Ben Ascran would lose and then he would, his losses he would, like, even when he lost a Mazu doll, like his first tweet was like, well, that sucked or something like that. And then he wasn't defending his actions. Like, yeah, I probably deserved it.

And everyone kind of forgave him. Macy Barber didn't do that. She'd like you, like you and Josh said, wasn't that nice to Roxy after. Roxy's one of the most beloved fighters on the roster in terms of with the fan. So, yeah, Macy Barber didn't do herself any favors. But still is a great fighter. It's real hard.

It's super young. And I think she'll figure it out eventually. But right now, yeah, fans are real sour on her. Yep, they certainly are. And I mean, there's so much potential in her. I mean, she's such an animal and she's got power. And when you weigh and you're 125 pounder and you've got that kind of power, if you can add those other tools to your game and put it all together,

you're going to be a tough out for anybody. So I understand why people are hard on her, but hopefully 22 years old, people can kind of ease off a little bit as time goes by, but it's up to her to kind of change that narrative. So that's the co-mate of it. As far as the rest of the card goes, Jose, some big wins, some big performances throughout the night.

in terms of like the best of the rest, who low-key stole the show on Saturday night in your mind? Like what was your biggest takeaway outside of the major storylines heading into the event coming out of it? I mean, the answer is Anthony Hernandez. He went in against Rodolfo Villetta, who is an ADC black belt, who looks like an action figure.

And if you look at the odds, he was a 30 to 1. It was 30 to 1 for him to win by submission. And our own Guillermo Cruz, a shout out to Guillermo. He did the math. He is the first person in 20 years in the UFC to submit an ADC champion. The last one to do was Frank Meir in 2001. So Fluffy Hernandez stole the show and I was all excited to talk to him like, you just submitted Adolfo BN in 2021. What's that mean? He goes, I don't know, I didn't even watch Jirid, so I guess it's a big deal. And then he

shouts out to his Venmo. Anyone who bet on me, send me money. So yes, the answer is Anthony Hernandez. the big win, beating the odds. Dana White, as we just said, unfortunately, you have to impress him in your fights, which, again, is real unfortunate that I have to say that. Dana White was all smiles talking about Anthony Hernandez. So got the boss's attention, it was the massive underdog, did something that hadn't been done in two decades.

So, yeah, Anthony Hernandez, big winner from last Saturday. What do you think, Josh, is Fluffy or low-key guy, or is there somebody else that stuck out to you that you want to mention. It's a great answer, and there's nothing wrong with saying Anthony Hernandez, but the answer is Julian Marquez. I mean, how can it not be Julian Marquez? Like, not only did he have an incredibly, like, demanding fight

that required him to pull off the third round finish that he did in spectacular fashion, that choke was ridiculous, against the guy who was super hard to choke. Nagu Betelho was fighting, hand-fighting, and so calm earlier in the fight. Like, it is not easy to catch him in an end-a-com. and he caught him in the third round. And the fitness that Marquez had, coming back the way he did,

the time off that he had, all that stuff is Julian Marquez. And then he does the call out, right? And all the stuff after the fight, everything with Miley Cyrus, all that nonsense. It has to be Julian Marquez the answer. I don't know how it couldn't be anybody but him. He screwed it up

and you can take it and you can hold it against them and he did all this stupid stuff and he went, you know, he's trying to redeem himself now. He had a chance maybe to do something really big and instead he got called out and dogged out by Molly Smiley Cyrus fine but uh you know based on what he did in the cage and then everything afterwards even though he was wacky sort of in the post fight uh interview and you know he was a goofball but um i don't know i don't know how it couldn't be him anthony hernandez was awesome but um it's julian marquez both excellent answers

And Julian Marquez, I compared his like follow up the renegotiation with Miley to like Kramer on Seinfeld when he has, when he's about to win the lawsuit after the car accident with the woman wearing the bra. And the cat he tells him to have her try the bra on. And he was like, no, he goes, I got this covered. Don't you worry about it. I got this. I got this planned. I'm going to prove everybody wrong. So we'll see what happens there.

I'm rooting for Julian Marquez. How can you not like that guy? But, you know, it's funny. We talked about this card. this was not the star-studded affair, 257 was, or that 259 is, but UFC 258 was a pretty good card. There's reports out there it did in the neighborhood

of 500,000 pay-per-view guys, and if that is in fact the case, that is a huge win in my eyes, no doubt about it. But we will move on from UFC 258, and the point for round two goes to the man with a very decorative shirt. Jose Young's, the Challenger, has even things up.

This is a good battle. This is a good battle. All right. So now we're going to go back to the 170 pound division because the rest of this division is kind of up in the air. At least it was coming out of Saturday. And Josh, you kind of, we kind of look at this division. All right. So we have Usman and Mazadol kind of tied together. We have Leon Edwards who lost his opponent from March 13th at Hamzat Shamaev, which went down while we were live here last week. He wanted the title shot, Mazadol, Covington, or even. Nate Diaz, but he now has a fight for March 13th. He's going to fight Belal Muhammad who can shake things up in a big way. So before we get to the rest of this division, your thoughts on the matchmaking, Leon Edwards making the decision to stay on this card, Bilal Muhammad stepping up. What did you think of that whole thing? Do it all the way around.

I mean, there's, you know, great that Leon Edwards gets to keep his fight, keep that date. He desperately needs to compete, earn a paycheck. For Balah Muhammad, it's like, you know, it is the UFC ethos. You strike while the iron's hot. You literally fight. You literally get to step in and get a big opportunity against a rank contender. So all of that's a big deal and a big positive for both of them.

No issues with this fight. I think everybody in the division needs to fight right now if they can. And so it's good to see Leon back, you know, obviously unfortunate about Hamzaa Chmai of and all of that. But the division keeps on rolling. I think for Belal Mohammed, this is a good fight. He needs to prove that he can handle a guy who can defend a different. take down and can strike from the outside and is longer and leaner and a difficult style fight for him. You know, that pressure will it pay off? We'll see. It's going to have to. But I like this all the

way around for everybody, including the UFC, no issues whatsoever. What do you think, Jose, because you mentioned Anthony Hernandez as the low-key winner of UFC 258. Josh mentioned Julia Marquez. Maybe he was below Muhammad after all, because now look at the fight he gets. He gets Leon Edwards in a main event. So what do you think of the matchmaking? It's a good point. I don't know. I I forgot that Bilal Mohammed even fought on that card, and I interviewed him after just because it was great fight. But, you know, got the biggest fight outside of the Hamzaa and the Colby Cungent, Mazzal's probably Leon Edwards right now. So, and he gets the main event spot. And it's interesting because I brought this up.

Like, well, he brought it up and then we kind of chat about that. It's like a week or so after Benile Darius brought up, brought this phrase, high risk, low reward in the rankings where he's at a lightweight. And Belal Mohammed said, that is. me. I'm low ranked. I'm super dangerous. I'm not the biggest name. I'm not going to go out there and just start you. I'm just going to be the better martial artist. And that doesn't always get the big

fights. And the Hamzat thing was brought up where he hasn't even fought a legitimate welterweight in the UFC yet and he was sitting at 15 and Balamohama was like, I just want to be active. I'll call out Lee Giulian because it makes sense because I know I'm not going to get Kobe coming to. So he was being

realistic. And then he gets Leon Edwards fight. So I absolutely love it. It didn't have happened to a nicer guy. Leon Edwards finally gets a UFC paycheck after, well, like, 400 and 500-something days. So, yes, love the matchmaking all around. Good for Bill Al-Mohamed and good for Leon Edwards to finally get in there. We had a commenter, It's Jay, a big fan of Jose's shirt, and that's good to see. People that know, no, no.

There you go. All right, so that's one piece of the puzzle. We have Colby Covington, who only seems to want Uzman or Mas. all. We got Wonderboy Thompson who wanted the Leon Edwards fight. He told me if Leon could have waited until May, that would have worked out for him. Not going to happen, obviously, because he's injured. He also wants the title fight, as you've seen. Now we have Michael Kiesa. He said he'll be ready in July after beating Neil Magny. And now Gilbert Burns is kind of back in the mix following UFC 259. And that guy is such a gangster. He's already back in the gym and working. The guy is just

an animal. So Josh, just outside of the Leon Edwards ball, Muhammad fight, what do you make in this Walterweight division right now and the fact that putting fights together with a lot of these big names, there's just not a lot of movement here. There hasn't been. That's why I was talking earlier about just let get them rolling, get them fighting. I think we even, it's very similar to the discussion we had in the first time I was on this show. We're talking about the lightweight division. Get them fighting.

Get them rolling. There's enough good fighters in that way class, people who need action. Let himself sort of self out. You know, I know Dana White was talking about lightweight is it's not a tournament, but it's kind of a tournament. They need to think of welterweight in similar terms. It's not a tournament, but it's kind of a tournament. You need to show up. There's also some really young prospects. I think you have to be intrigued by in this weight class.

And some veterans, like, I don't know if, does Carlos Condit have it in him to make another run? You know, two or three wins maybe is he a guy that sort of gets jumped up there? You know, I think there's some potential maybe for some old names that people are fond of to come back. But this is really a way class that I think stylistically always rough and tumble. you know, you can't count on anyone except the champion, it seems like, other than a champion who always seem to have sustained dominance in this way class, underneath it, it was always a churning pool. I feel the same way about 170. It's very deep. You look at some of the names. I mean, there's no question about it. So I think first and foremost, you get him going,

which is why it's so good that Leon Edwards is still on this March card and now Ballah Mahomets can sort of advance or say, hey, you know, I'm not part of this tournament as I sort of framed it, but, you know, let the results speak for themselves, and I think it certainly will sort itself out. And Kumar Usman can't be calling out specific contenders. This was a sort of a one-time thing. He's got to accept who's ever there. Just take that fight. There's enough fighters to step in and give him a challenge. And I think we'll see that activity over the next 18 months, 24 months. Hope so, because the fans and everybody else will benefit if this division is that active. And I expect it to be that way.

What do you think, Jose? I mean, we got between Uzman and and Mazadol, and now between Leon Edwards staying on this card, do you think that's enough to get the Colby's and all these other guys up and running? Like, I understand Wonderboy being injured. That's why he's not fighting. He just fought in December, so it's not the end of the world. Kiesa just fought. He's getting married. So July seems to be a thing for him. He may have an injury of some sort. But Covington seems to be like the big piece of the puzzle. The guy is ranked number one, but it is like almost impossible to get him in the octagon unless it's something that he desires. So, I mean, what do you think happens here?

Like, how do we get these guys going? Because now we're seeing Bilal make a move. And last year at Middleweight, we saw guys like Kevin Holland and Marvin Vittori really shake things up at 85. What do you think, like, what do you make of like some of these guys just not getting active here, especially Colby? It's the activity is going to make stars right now. In the year of our Lord 2021, that is what is going to make stars. Like you brought it up. Marvin, Tori, Kevin Holland took these opportunities and ran with them.

Like Kevin Holland, a lot of people thought was the fighter of the year in 2020. Like Davidson Figurato became the first champion to defend his belt in back-to-back months because the UFC needed him. Like, these guys were a company man, and they went and did it. And even Davidson Figaro had all these issues with Dana White. Like, oh, I didn't get the bonus. Oh, I want more money. Oh, I'm going to fly back to Brazil. And Dana White just basically gave him what he wanted to get that title shot.

I mean, not to get another title fight in there in December. So activity matters. And we were talking about Leon Edwards being the odd man now. Right now it's probably Colby Covington because of Usman and Masudal fight, if Leon Edwards beats Bala Muhammad, you'd have to assume that he's going to get the title fight just because he's doing the U.S. of favor. Like I've said this a million times. Kamau Usman, when he fought Ty and Woodley, was it should have been Colby Covington.

He was at the time the interim champ. It was all of that beef with Tyne Woodley. So say what you want about the gimmick. He still deserved it just based on what he did in the Octagon. But Kamar Usman cut weight to serve as a backup for Woodley Till. He took that fight against RDA and the tough finale. He took that fight against Damien Maia in Chile. He's taking these dangerous fights that no one wants in these risky fights of people coming off losses, being the company man.

And he gets a title fight. That's what has to happen right now. And that's what Edwards is doing. Thompson, I get, if they want to do Thompson Covington, I love it. If they want to do Burns and Keis are moving forward. I love it. They're both big fans of each other. And of course, you got Bacente Lucie.

If he beats Tyne Woodley, like look at everyone that's being Tyne Woodley. They're all of a sudden big name. There's still big names are now. So, Luke A adds himself to the mix, too. I'm glad Josh brought up Carlos Conn because I don't know, but I know Josh Carlos' last fight was the last on his contract. So if he re-signed, there's a million fights. I would not say no to watch Carlos Conn at being.

So Walter Wade Division just needs to be active in 2021. Josh, if you had the pen, how are you kind of working out these matchups? because Leon's off the market now, fighting below March 13th. Then we get the Usman Mazadol thing, which is very likely to happen at this point. So we got Colby, we got Wonderboy, we got Burns, we got Kiesa,

maybe some of these other guys can creep in. You mentioned Carlos Condit. If you had the Almighty Penn, how are you matchmaking, this division moving forward? Do Burns Covington? Do Keiza Thompson? I like that.

You know, then we're, we don't know where Chimaev steps in now. I'd like to see the young kids fight each other. You know, I think sometimes the UFC will pull it the young contender up and comer against the fighter who's over the hill and two established. I think that matchmaking doesn't serve in a lot of cases, especially the division as competitive as 170. So give me the Sean Braves against the Miguel Baezas and Shavkat Romkanov,

Sean Brady, you know, that Jake Matthews, like these kinds of fighters have to show up as well. And they can quickly jump the line if they make the cases that Kevin Hollins did last year. So, you know, that's kind of the thinking that I'm looking at. It's kind of hard to screw up the matchmaking in this weight class. You can do it. I think the UFC messed up by not doing Leon Edwards and George Mossfiddle when they had the chance the first time. That fight made so much sense on every different level possible.

And they didn't. Obviously, Nate Diaz's interjection had a lot to do with it. And Nate's still around, too. We haven't brought him up. It's crazy. He kind of exists on his own island. But, you know, you stick him in this conversation against any of these names, anyone, people will want to watch. Obviously, it's trickier because he's not going to want to fight anybody.

so who do you give them? You know, maybe the, maybe Covington is kind of interesting off of opposite Diaz. It really depends for him. But, you know, there are matches. As I said, as Jose said, just get them to fight. The matchmaking is kind of will take care of itself. Get them active.

They'll make the case for themselves. The fans will determine a lot of this. So, you know, just step in the cage and fight. And we'll see how it shakes out. I look forward to it because it's a way class with an incredible champion and a lot of talent underneath it, and that's always a formula for a lot of good. Yeah, I would agree.

And Kamar Usman is obviously the big winner on Saturday. I think number two was obviously Mazadol for getting the gift and the collad and the silver platter. I think number three in this division, Wonderboy Thompson. Everybody wants to see Wonderboy fight Usman now. I've seen so much of that. Usman versus Wonderboy, Usen versus Wonderboy. This is huge for him.

Lukewarm on those. All right. I mean, fair enough. I just don't think it'll happen. Yeah. Not now. I think it turns into a stylistic nightmare unless Oussman just sort of like is too physical for Wonderboy and beats them up and ends up putting him away. But that's not a fight that jumps out to me.

It's particularly enthralling that I have to watch. It's sort of just the stylistic matchup, I got to say. Yeah. But if you're Kees and Wonderboy right now and you listen to Colby Covington talk with our good friends at submission radio, you're like, ooh, boy, we might be getting up to that belt sooner than we might have expected to. but we'll see what happens. Walt away is an interesting story. We will move ahead. The point for round three goes to Josh Gross, two to one, two to one.

Thank you. The polo horse, the polo horse, the designer shirt, got it done, even though a lot of love for Jose's shirt. But we got to talk about this Saturday. The UFC is back in action. UFC Vegas 19. As of right now, we have a 15-fight extravaganza, headlined by, Curtis Blades versus Derek Lewis. This fight was supposed to happen in November.

Blades tested positive for COVID-19, and now we get a nice little president's week gift in this heavyweight matchup. Now, normally, Jose, we look at this fight as a possible title eliminator since Steve A. Mietich and Francis and Ghanu are about to fight for the belt on March 27th. And Dana White has already come out and said,

John Jones, who's moving up to heavyweight, the former light heavyweight champion of the world, is going to get the winner of the heavyweight title fight. So it's a tough spot for Blamey, in Lewis right now. Blades, especially, in my opinion, with the streak he's on. What are these guys fighting for on Saturday, Jose? Well, Curtis, Blades is fighting to just stay relevant in the division. Like, he's already lost to France. He's gone in twice. So that fight probably won't happen

anytime soon. We do have the Cyril Gond, Girozino fight. So maybe if Blades wins, he could fight, you can fight the winner of that. I think regardless of what happens on Saturday, Derek Lewis fights Alsteroving next. Derek Lewis has already just called him out on both media a few of days. Alster Overeem has talked a lot of greeceness on Twitter whenever they fight. So I think that's the fight to make no matter what. They're also like, like the heavyweight division was held up by two men for the better part of

three years. Unfortunately, with injuries and all that kind of stuff with Steepay and DC and the trilogy for the greatest heavyweight ever. And I do, if John Jones eventually, whenever he does fight in heavyweight and he gets a title shot right away, I have no problem with it because I think any champion that was the champion and they changed division. they didn't lose their belt, I think they can skip the line, no problem.

John Jones, I want to see him fight Stepe. I want to see him fight France. So Curtis Blades just needs to stay relevant and keep winning because, yes, there are fights to make. He has to be the biggest Stepe Miotr's fan in the world on Saturday. And if Stepe does win, he immediately becomes the biggest John Jones fan in the world. Because he needs, if Steepeepe loses to John, they'll probably do the rematch because Steepa is the greatest heavyweight ever, and they want to give Steve.

They want to give the greatest these rematches all of the time. And if Francis beat Steve A, then my God, that's another trilogy fight that might happen down the road. So Curtis Blades is just fighting because we just talked about it in the entire last round, activity matters and just winning fights matter. And that's what Curtis Blades needs to do. He said it himself on virtual media day. He'll get the bell eventually, but he's fighting for his family and get that paycheck. And he's going to take as little damage as possible in that route. So Derek Lewis is fighting to fight Alastor Overn

and Curtis Blaze is fighting to stay relevant in the heavyweight division. What do you think, Josh? Because albeit not the best place for these guys to be in, you can dry your tears with $100 bills, I guess. What are these guys fighting for on Saturday? It's kind of crazy. You're 14 and 2.

You've won 4 in Roe and you're fighting for relevance. You know, I get the point that you lost the Francis and Ghanu twice, and that's a big mark. But, man, a lot of people lost the Francis in Gano and did it badly. And, you know, they're still trying to fight for relevance, I guess. To me, he's fighting for more than that, although he's never going to gain favor with fans. He's never going to be a guy the UFC feels like they can market or push.

I mean, he is 100% grade A. I'm going to show up and do my thing. I don't care if you're bored or not. But if I win, that's all that matters. And that's okay. But it does put you behind a lot of hurdles in the UFC. And so there will be no rush to give him marketable fight. you know, what are you going to do, man?

He just beat Alexander Volkov, and now Volkov's a guy that everybody's talking about, oh my God, he could be the next contender, but he just lost it. It's like it's very difficult to know what to do with the Curtis Plades because he can knock off a lot of really good fighters, but can he knock off the best? And that's the question.

And you risk a lot by putting him in there because maybe he wins and you get a super boring champion that no one cares about. And that's a difficult thing. So I think that he has to fight not to be thrown into the gauntlet. He's got to do something that gets fans attracted or interested. And I don't mean like cut up promo or he's got to go in there and beat down Derek Lewis and make it look bad. And not just wrestle him and hold him down and beat him positionally,

but beat him up and make it look bloody and bad because that's the only way that he'll get the attention of the fans, to get the attention to the UFC and move on past this idea that a 14 and 2 heavyweight who is damn good is fighting for relevance and a fight when he's won four in a row. It's unfortunate that that that's the idea. and it totally makes sense considering the reality of the UFC. But, you know, he has to be fighting for more than that. And the only way that he can do it is not the fight for a points win against Derek Lewis who can be taken down at will by anybody who can wrestle. He's got to do better than that.

And we'll see if he's capable of it. But really, that's what's riding on the line. I think the trajectory of like the next three years of Blade's career rides on his fight on Saturday. So that is the main event. Let us take a gander at the rest of the card. main event. We got Caitlin Vietta versus Yana Kunizkaya. We got Charles Rosa versus Derek Minner

in the featured spot. Alexi Olinick versus Chris Dawkes, Phil Haas versus Nassardine, Imovov, and Andrei Arlofsky versus Tom Aspinol rounds out the main card. Then we have nine fights on the prelims. There are some fun names, some good prospects. We've got some

octagon debuts as well. Josh, when you look at this card from top to bottom, where would you gauge your interest level heading into Saturday night. Well, it's a night of UFC fights with a pretty compelling main event for me. Not the best main event, obviously, but a good compelling one. I think if you're, I mean, it's 2021. We still got a pandemic and most people are staying in. So I'm watching. I don't know what the problem is, you know. It's a good night of fights. I think there is some interest here beyond that,

obviously. Tom Aspinall's looked great. He really has. He's coming to the UFC and kind of look like he's somebody who's athletic enough and a unique enough heavyweight to do some damage. maybe. Obviously, fighting guy with a ton of experience in Andrea Arlofsky, and Arlofsky's talking some crap about him too, right? So that's an interesting fight. Otherwise, you know, it's a typical UFC fight. The UFC card with not enough fighters with Wikipedia pages for my liking, but, you know, I still think you'll get the action that mixed martial arts always deserves. You know, we'll get six hours and guys like Jose, sorry, Jose Jose Jose Jose, so I used to Jose Aldo Jose and you and everybody else will be working busy on Saturday night

and the fans will be enjoying themselves. So a good card, nothing amazing, but nothing to complain about either. What do you think, Jose? Where's your interest level at? I mean, we watch them all anyways. And a lot of times, and we saw this last year, the cards on paper, they don't look so hot, they deliver better than some of the cards that looked like on fire on paper.

So what's your interest level for the Saturday? I'm pretty interesting. Before I get into why, I do want to say, I'm really glad Josh brought up the, there's a lot of fighters without Wikipedia pages on this card because I say that all of the time. And everyone looks at me like, why does, what do you?

Who cares? Like, what's the big deal? I'm like, it's a thing. If you don't have a Wikipedia page, you got to do a lot. Like, that means you're not worthy enough to, like, for the casual audience to find you in Google. So thank you, Josh, for backing up.

Yeah, I've been standing for at least a decade. But yeah, I'm glad other people have been doing it. 100% I say it all the time like you get a Wikipedia page you made it anyway there's a lot of fun fights I'm excited for this card obviously Charles Rosa thank you Casey be one of my biggest detractors for the Wikipedia arguments

has finally come around real excited to see Charles Rosa fight his last fight was the first fight he ever won outside the city of Boston so let's see what he can do in the UFC let's see what he can do after that I I was tentatively excited for this fight but then after their media days it kind of sold to me

Charles Rose basically just said there's levels to this, and Derek Minner is not on my level. And Derek Minner just went scorched earth on him and was like, he fought a bunch of bombs and then ran into Dennis Siever. Like, what are you talking about? So any fight between unranked fighters that get me real excited outside of the main and co-main event, I'm about it. And Charles Rose is like obviously a New England guy. Mike is a New England guy. Guy's name is Boston Strong, so you got to tune in. Tom Aspinall, if he can win and get a Tyson Fury call out because they are just,

training partners, if he can get Tyson Fury to mention him on Twitter, it's only going to, like, it's going to exponentially increase his stock in the eyes of fight fans because I think Tyson Fears is the absolute best heavyweight pugilist on planet Earth right now, and he's by far the most charismatic fighter in the world right now. So that is, you know, hey, got to win first of all, but anytime Tyson Fury connection to the UFC is made, I'm all about it. Obviously, Alexia Lennox is a thousand years old. First fighter in the UFC, you'd fight in four decades, 90s, 2000s, 2010, 2020s. Obviously, I have saved Phil Haas, because A.K. Lee's not here to say it for me.

So a ton of great fights. Choucar Close is fighting. Violent Bob Ross. Troucar Close represents Arizona. Luis Paine is by far one of the most interesting characters in the UFC. I know that whole story of him meeting his biological father and brother for the first time. We're kind of past that, but he still brings it up frequently in his interview. So a ton of fun fights.

But yeah, the main event's great. Co-main event is fine. it's again the ban on weight division is what it is like i know we don't like to use the word but a win two wins in a row women's band and wait you're probably pretty close to a title shot and so kailen bianan scunit's guy are basically fighting to stay in that top five so not the most exciting fight but there's some intriguing matchups and names i have circled on my bow sheet some good debut some good debuting fighters too finally uh jared vanderah after his uh contender Series win and that promo and a half.

He is debuting. Draco Rodriguez makes his debut. Casey O'Neill makes her debut. I'm very excited for that fight with Shonda Dobson. And then Pat Sabatini, longtime CFFC champion makes his debut. He's fighting Rafael Alves. So that should be

fun. I like these cards. Don't sleep on them, ladies and gentlemen. You might just sit back, watch some bangers go down, eat a pie or something. In New England, it's going to be cold and snowy. So just sit back and enjoy it. And speaking of competitive...

I'm pretty confident there's going to be less than 15 fights on this card come fight night. It happens like how we lost three fights in 48 hours the week of the UFC 258. So if 15 fights might be 12 by Saturday. Unfortunately. It's very possible. We'll find out. I mean, usually the scale is a is an indicator of what's to come.

We'll see what happens tomorrow morning. but speaking of competitive bangers, we have one right here. The point for round four goes to Jose Young. He has tied things up, the Challenger. Wow, shocking. I know. Has anyone ever won this show 3-1?

Never. Listen, we're trying to, we're having follow-up. But listen, it's mostly because I'm selfish, I just want to see what these knock our rounds are like. We're trying new things, Josh. You actually helped with this in a lot of things. away. So if you're new to the show, the knockout round leaves it down to one question. It's going

to decide it all. We are introducing a new segment this week to the knockout round, which I will explain shortly. But each participant will answer a question. They have no idea what it is. They'll have 60 seconds to give their response once they have done that, along with your help, the viewers, we will turn it over to the judge, the jury, the executive producer E. Casey Leiden, and he will render the final decision. Now, before we reveal this new segment, Josh Gross, you are the champion. You decide whether you'd like to go first or pass it on over to Jose.

I'm going to stick with it at one second last week. I'll go second this week. So you first. Okay. Now, it really doesn't matter this week. Because of this new segment, for the second week in a row, it does not matter whether you go first or last.

We're introducing a new segment called Pick Your Poison, Jose. There are two questions here. One of you will answer one question. The other will answer the other question. There were six options. Two of them were randomly selected before the show. So, Jose, would you like to open door number one or door number two for your question? Two.

All right. Here we go. Here is your question, Jose. Elator has announced that they are putting together their own ranking system, which includes multiple members of the MMA media, which is pretty much exactly like the UFC is doing. There are some variations. It's going to be a top 10 across the division. guidelines towards those which you may have seen on our site on mayfighting.com. They're going to do a pound for pound men's list, a pound for pound women's list.

The question is, was this the right move to do this with the media when we have seen so many issues this is caused with the UFC rankings? What is your overall reaction to this news from Bellator in regards to its new ranking systems? We have one minute on the clock. Your time starts now. I think it is not a good idea for the media to do it. I think Josh is going to be an agreement with me. Anytime a promoter is holding rankings for their one specific promotion, it is.

It's marketing. Like, oh, you can say the number three is fighting the number five. The journalists should not have say in that. If there is a consensus like college football has the AP rankings, if there was that, then I would get it. And you could rank Patricio Pitbull and Max Holloway and Alkanowski and AJ McKee all in one big ranking, then I get it. just a Bellator ranking, just the UFC ranking. I don't like the idea of either, because then all of a sudden,

we have a guy that's on like a five-fight one streak, and he's complaining he's not number 10, and then that is affecting his bottom line. And I guess the UFC changed how it was supposed to be where the higher your ranks, the more you get paid from the Reebok deal. They thankfully got rid of that. I still want nothing to do with the rankings.

I get why Bellator wants to do it, and I get why Scott Coker wants to do it. But if they ask me, I would say no, and I hope other journalists do it. All right. Jose, thank you for your well thought out. Well, not really well thought out, just because you got it at the top of the dome. Still well thought out of the top of the dome.

But we go to the champion, and there's only one other option here, Josh Gross. I bet there's a part of you that wishes that you could answer this question as well. But behind the door is a very interesting question. It's a little bit different. It's a fun kind of barbershop conversation that you're going to have with yourself and me and Casey Leiden. We have five title fights. Coming up in the month of March on the schedule, we have Blahovic versus Adisanya, we got Nunes versus Anderson, Jan versus Sterling,

Mietchich versus Inganu, Volcanovsky versus Ortega. Based purely on the matchups themselves, Josh, not the placing on the card or the popularity of the fighters, which of these five title fights is the most intriguing in your eyes from a competitive standpoint and why? 60 seconds are on the clock. Your time starts now. there are a few of those that I don't find competitively intriguing or I'm confused by

but the clear answer is steep Amiosich and Francis Angano I mean Francis Ngano is about as scary a person who's ever walked the face of the earth and the last time he stepped in the cage with steep Amiosich she was totally nullified and made to look like a beginner like an amateur a beginner he didn't know what he didn't know what to do has he found any answer for that? Because if he has, then he has an opportunity to stop the title run

of the longest reigning champion the UFC Heavyweight Division, a historic fighter. And that's a big deal. I mean, yes, the heavyweight division carries with it a certain cachet that other divisions don't and you sort of forget, but it matters a lot. Even without that, Steve Miorzich,

fighting a killer like Francis Inganu, who's got everything to win and has to find a way to win, that's it. That's the answer. All right. We have a lot to look forward to in the next month or so. We have heard the answers. We're going to wait for the viewer votes

and their comments to come in. While we're waiting for that to happen, just a heads up, we will have you covered for UFC Vegas 19 here at M-A Fighting. We'll have our live preview show tomorrow afternoon, so stay tuned for that. We'll have the pre-show Q&A 30 minutes before the first fight kicks off. I believe it's at 430 Eastern, which I'm digging.

digging the early start time, live post-fight show, and then AK and I are back on Sunday with our matchmaking podcast onto the next one. So basically keep it locked here in M-Mayfiting.com. Okay, I think I've wasted enough time letting these votes chime in here. I know we're on a little bit of a delay with that said. Casey, I'm giving you the hot tag, my man. Tough decision on your shoulders. Who's the champ?

It's a tough one. I mean, we had two different questions for these gentlemen, so I have to. oh boy all right all right here we go here we go you're a winner

Jose Youngs Josh is not happy not happy congratulations okay congratulations I agree with everything you said about Casey's judging

in the beginning they show it's absolutely ridiculous everyone you're not see you're a you're a BTL champion but you're not a real BTL

PTL, like, lifer until Casey screws you out of a win. So welcome to the club, friend. Happy to be here. Thank you. Oh, man. All right, Jose. First appearance of 2021. You've appealed to Casey's good graces.

And with that, you get 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about, good, bad, and different in the sport of M&A. Man, I was not prepared. So I'm going to address certain people. that like to cover media, like cover fights, whether they're there on scene or doing it from their couch or this and that. Let's try to have some sort of professionalism when you're covering it or thing. Don't say, don't tweet, don't all this stuff. Like, oh, I slept through the prelims and now I'm here for the main card. No, if you want to put in the work and become an actual

MMA journalist, do the work. Like, everyone asked, I'm Josh, I'm sure, I know I've asked you when I was in college. Like, how do you become an MMA media member? My answer is to put in the work and put in the legwork and don't take shortcuts. Don't try to join the top sides right away. You got to start at the bottom of work your way up and put in the, just do your job and do it well. And don't cut corners and don't try to grease palms and all of a sudden join the big leagues.

Put in the work. I only say that because I got three or four questions about that today. Like what advice do you have to become an immediate member? Do you, as Bill Belichick said, just do your job and do it well. And people will notice. That's what I have to say. That's been on my mind for a bit, and it just got expedited today because I got asked that question by three different people.

Nicely done, Jose, and you're using the greatest head coach of all time as a reference from your favorite team, the New England Patriots. That is just not screw it all. I know. Josh, what do you think about? A nice little learning lesson for those coming up in the sport right now. What do you want to say in terms of advice for the up-and-coming journalist or journalists in training, so to speak? understand what you're trying to accomplish and what it means to be a reporter and a journalist and how you're actually interacting with the lives of people who are engaged in their career and their futures

and everything that they're doing really means a lot to them and you have to owe them the respect to cover them fairly and honestly and you have to operate in a certain way where you don't care about what they think about as long as you didn't do anything defamatory or slanderous if you were true to your ethics and you work hard. This is a good business to be in because it's fulfilling. It's difficult. Sometimes it's hard to make a paycheck.

I can speak from personal experience. But if you operate in the right way, the opportunities will come. I've seen that with a lot of young reporters in this business. And I hope to continue to see that because the sport is extremely interesting to cover. There's a long way to go. And we need good reporters in the space. So I would say if you're interested at all, explore that interest, pursue it, and be sincere about it.

You got to work hard like anything else. Well said by both of you gentlemen. Josh, you will be back for sure. No doubt about that. One of our favorites in the history of this program, no doubt about that, one of the OGs. Thank you for coming on the last several weeks, Josh. We'll definitely get you back.

Congratulations to Jose. Probably the OG in my mind. The captain of the ship. But that'll do it for us this week on Between the Links. Thank you for checking us out once again. you all are the real MVP. So for Josh, Jose, Judge Casey Leiden, the iconic voice of somebody.

I don't know if it's going to be Esther or Mr. Esther, but they're going to take you on home. I am Mike Heck. We'll see you back here next Thursday. Between the Links. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links, but if you're a host, Mr. Mike Heck,

don't forget to click the subscribe button. Thanks for watching. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.