MMA Fighting - Between The Links: Kamaru Usman vs. Jorge Masvidal 2, Jake Paul vs Ben Askren Fallout, Israel Adesanya vs. Robert Whittaker 2, More

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

This week on Between the Links, host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew as he looks to avenge his loss from last week’s show to fellow MMA journalist Drake Riggs. The panel will discuss the fallout of Jake Paul’s first-round TKO win over Ben Askren at this past Saturday’s Triller Fight Club event and if the loss did any major damage to Askren’s legacy, Robert Whittaker’s impressive win over Kelvin Gastelum in the main event of UFC Vegas 24 and how a potential rematch with Israel Adesanya could go, the UFC 261 main event between Kamaru Usman and Jorge Masvidal, which welterweight needs the win more, the strawweight title fight between Zhang Weili and Rose Namajunas, the flyweight title fight between Valentina Shevchenko and Jessica Andrade, the sleeper fight of Saturday’s card, and much more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Drake Riggs: @DrakeRiggs_ Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So download the app today and get $0-dollar delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Anime Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, Mike! All right, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links.

We are 48 hours away from UFC 261. I'm in Boston, Massachusetts right now at my parents' house, but we are making this happen on location. I know the video and the audio quality is not what it typically is in the command center, but you got to do what you got to do, and we're making this happen. And since UFC 261 is going to be headlined by a rematch, we figured this program should also feature a rematch. And for those watching with us live on YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook,

feel free to give us your thoughts on the festivities on who's winning the rounds. And let's go ahead and get into this match of right now and introduce the combatants first. sitting in the challenger seat this week, fresh off being in the building for the Jake Paul versus Ben Ascran fight card in Atlanta GA from MMAFighting.com. Mr. Jedmishu, how are you, my friend? I'm doing well so long as you can guarantee me, Mike, that at the end of this show, even though you're on location as well, we still get a cameo from your side. Like that, we still need that to happen.

We could probably make that happen. He's in his pajamas running around somewhere, getting ready to eat some dead. dinner. So, uh, but let us introduce the brand new BTL champion in Jacksonville right now. Just got back from the UFC 261 press conference, uh, representing the fine folks of the South China morning post ahead of the triple header of championship fights. Let us welcome back the champ, Uriah Hall's favorite media member. Drake Riggs. How are you, my friend? Oh, man, just like you just like, uh, Jorge Mazvedal and Kamar Usman, another undeserved rematch coming up for you guys right now.

But I'm doing okay, Mike. Aside from the exhaustion, no food today, fueled off of pure anxiety and stress. I am happy to be here. Defending Champ always defends his belt. No matter when, send location. We're here. Let's do it.

Why haven't you had food? Could you not steal any on your pirate Jack Sparrow? What the hell? Why haven't you eaten today? Things to do, places to be. Fair enough. Fair enough.

All right. So we already get some heat right off. the bat. This is great. So let's get right into this thing. We mentioned it during the introduction when we introduced Jed, but let us sort of put the events to bed officially. Jake Paul versus Ben Ascran. We're going to begin there this week. This thing just took on a life of its own before the event even happened this past Saturday. It's become even crazier since Saturday night. But if you're living under a rock, Jake Paul knocked out Ben Ascran in the first round. The circus came to an end with the big right hand, the referee,

I believe made the right call. And this continues to be a massive, massive story for some reason. So before we get into anything else, Jed, I want to start with you. You are in the building. You have seen the interest firsthand in this fight. You lived it. You were the guy that hated it and then grew to love it. What would you say you learned the most on Saturday or even now since Saturday? what would you say you learn the most about the state of combat sports in regards to the reaction to this fight? That is a big question, and that's frankly too big a question for the small minds on this show to parse into.

I don't know that we learned a ton broadly. Like, honestly, this is what combat sports has been forever. It's maybe just that Jake Paul is finding, not a new or a novel way, but he is leveraging it the most transparently that anyone has, at least in recent memory. And it's working out for him because the big thing I learned is that I am absolutely a trailer fight club fan. I'm in. We went on the journey last week where I was very much not in when this was first announced.

Again, I blame Stephen Morocco because he is just a fun suck, so I couldn't have fun. because we were talking about it while I was with Stephen. But I slowly warmed to the idea. It kept growing. I kept getting more interested in it. And then last week I was pumped. I was super excited. Some of that certainly was the fact that I was going to get to go and cover it in my hometown.

But it delivered, man. Like, I don't, anyone watching at home, if you put aside the idea that they were supposed to be fights happening, obviously that didn't happen a lot. the whole event was awesome and I feel like everybody agrees or at least at the time they certainly agreed and even the people who didn't like it or didn't love it they have to admit that it was an experience it was this kind of communal thing and that's sort of what we're trying to always get to with events like this right of feeling that we were there for something at the time was happening something that was important in the culture be it fighting or football or soccer or anything like that. Saturday night

undeniably, Triller Fight Club was a thing that was happening in the culture. And it was fun as hell to be a part of. Looking back on it, it was even more fun than I think I remember it at the time. Because I'll be honest with you. The event

really ran long when I was there. But it was awesome. And looking back, I regret nothing. I cannot wait for them to do another one because the numbers this thing did, they're doing another one. And I hope I, as middle of that show, I messaged Brian took our editor and was like, hey, man, I don't ask for a lot.

But whenever Triller does finally do Jake Paul versus Connor McGregor, I have dibs on going to that one because that's just going to be a freaking scene, man. It's going to be awesome. All right. So we just waiting for it. All right, so we heard pro Jake Paul versus Betaskin, pro-triller fight club. Drake, you were on the show last week, not fully interested in this. You were way more interested in the Eleanor card, the Phil Davis versus Vadim Nemcoff fight,

which actually turned out to be pretty good. It turned out to be a pretty good card. It turned out to be a pretty good fight. Jed is still, you know, making that face right now. But now that you've seen the reaction. Drake, now that you've been a stretch. Drake, now that you've seen the reaction to all of this and this thing continues to have legs, even five days after the card happened,

what does that say about the state of combat sports in your mind and the fans and just the overall reaction to this whole thing from start to finish and where we're at right now? I just think it's really telling that this event was apparently important enough to get Chad to shave for it. So that's something. That's a positive, I suppose. But I mean, in terms of the overall landscape of combat sports and interesting, interest and all that stuff. I feel like it didn't tell us a whole lot. You know, people always like kind of the circus, always the crazy thing. And this was probably one of the bigger ones since McGregor-Mayweather, obviously. So that always draws eyeballs. And if

anything, the fact that Jake Paul won just continues to build the interest. And as we've seen online, the speculation of, oh my goodness, how well could this guy do? Like, we're seeing people actually give him a chance against people like Daniel Cormier and the like. So I think it just bolsters the fact that maybe people are a lot more interested in this ridiculous celebrity, kind of nonsense, and even to look at his brother Logan, apparently going to fight Floyd now. And I know there was a poll that I believe somebody did, maybe Mike Huffinger or something, online comparing, asking fans, which one are they more excited for? The Logan Paul Floyd made with a fight, or a legitimate boxing fight,

which not a boxing fan, so I don't even remember who it was for, but I know the other guys, obviously, and they were winning at the time. Floyd and Logan were. So, I mean, I don't think that's anything new. And judging by the buys and all that, it doesn't tell us a whole lot.

I think, if anything, it tells us, at least from the reactions I saw, that the combat sports community doesn't like to have more of a concert going on than fighting, because that was maybe, there was maybe more of the event than actual fighting. from what I've heard, and I think Jed even admits that himself. So I think that's probably the takeaway.

From what I've heard, come on. Don't act like you didn't see it. I didn't watch it. I did not watch it. Absolutely, nonsensical. Also, everyone commenting that I've lost around, that's cool. One, we all know it doesn't matter. And two, you're all just liars because one of these events did 1.4 million paper

peopies. Clearly, it was the event of the weekend. And it was a damn good time. I'm not going to apologize for it. That was a good time and being in there, like it was a mostly empty arena, and it was still a good time. Like, the thing's going to be incredibly fun whenever they get fans, even if it's going to go bankrupt very soon. Because there's no way they can keep footing that bill. It's a pirate.

I actually spoke with Frank Meier yesterday. That interview should be dropping maybe tomorrow at this point because he, He does talk a little bit of a UFC 261. He has his thoughts on the experience. And I kind of agree with a lot of what he said. So a little teaser right there. But we're going to talk about Jake Paul in a moment. But Drake, let me ask you, in the MMA space, I mean, for all of us, this is about

Ben Ascran. Like, can he get it done? Like, a lot of people thought he was fighting for the sport. He was the representative of mixed martial arts that anything other than a win for Ben Ascran would be an absolute disaster for MMA. Like those are one of the takes that I heard. And the overall legacy of Ben Ascran, who was a Hodge trophy winner and Olympian and an NBA world champion for one in Bellator, the long list of accolades this guy's put

together. Like this would be a disaster for him to go up there and get knocked on the first round. So I'm curious in this aftermath, right, did this loss the whole thing, the circus, the physique, all of it. Did this hurt the overall legacy of Ben Ascran in your mind? Man, as much as I love Ben Askit, I feel like it's hard for this not to have, you know, just I think that anything less than a domination or starching was not going to look great for him. Because he's going against a guy, went against a guy who, yes, very young has started to actually box. But he's known as this goofy YouTuber buying kid, does the silly videos nonsense.

Nonsense tried to rap a little bit, which, you know, that's another thing. Just this incredible, you know, annoying personality out in the media space goes in against this guy who has already fought a basketball player and another YouTuber and gets knocked out in the first round, what, like 70 seconds or something crazy? I think it absolutely hurts. Even though we all knew, we all knew he wasn't known for his striking. Absolutely incredible wrestler. Still, man, a true veteran, a former champion who was undefeated for. for 19 fights in MMA, that is not good.

That is not good at all. I think it definitely hurts. Not as much as maybe if he was to, I don't know, I was going to say if it was in MMA, but we already saw that pretty much, but it was against the top guy. So maybe if this happened in M.A.

and he got out wrestled or something, that would be very bad too. But it can't not hurt. Like, what? Nate Robinson was apparently reaching out to him like, man, you know, they're those guys now. They're those guys who we lost to Logan Paul. We got knocked out by Logan Paul.

Jake Paul, geez, I'm getting all the polls mixed up now. In the first round, I think it definitely hurts. And it sucks because the end of his career has been exactly how you would not want your career to end, especially after that unbeaten streak that he won him, where we all knew him as a guy that was so dominant and good enough to potentially challenge GSP in his prime. That was what many people talked about back in the day. And now that looks just incredibly silly. Jed, what do you think about that and the whole legacy thing?

Because what I find interesting about this whole thing is that a lot of people talked about, you know, Ben Askwood has to go in there and win. Like he has to go in and represent M.MA. Frank Mear goes in and fight Steve Cunningham and let us be 100% clear here. Steve Cunningham, his boxing credentials are like 20,000 marathons longer than Jake Paul's. So Frank Mear going in there and going six rounds with a two-time former Cruiserate world champion. and getting the loss, he's been getting praise left and right, and he deserves that. I thought he exceeded expectations. I think you would agree with that as well.

But when you look at Ben Ascgren in the resume and how people view him, and I know you're not a big Ben Ascran fan as it is, is his legacy taking a hit from this? Or is there a part of you because you love this event so much? He was a big part of making this thing what it was. So a number of things here. First, just to respond to Drake, very briefly. It's not, it's not silly in hindsight. It was, it was absolutely ludicrous at the time. Anyone who thought I'd been asking had anything for GSB, because he very clearly never did.

But back to your question, Mike, I would start by saying, what legacy? Does Ben Askin really have, like, a tremendous legacy in MMA that we, we think about? No, like, realistically, his legacy is much larger in the world of wrestling. And I don't think this affects that. But as his overall legacy, 100% it does because this is the first thing now. This is number one with the bullet on his, probably not in his obituary because you try and be like really nice to people there.

But like moving forward, when you're talking about Ben Ascran in columns or whatever, it won't be former one FC champion, Ben Ascran. It'll be like, dude who got bolted by a youth. YouTuber. So yeah, 100% it's bad for his legacy. I don't think he gives her shit, though. And in fact, I'm almost dead certain he doesn't because legacy don't pay the bills, but what does pay the bills is that check that Triller gave to him on Saturday night. So, like, I think he knew that this was a risk going in here. Frankly, if you just look at how he looked, he did not look like a man who took

this seriously. I think he'd said since that he did take it seriously. But, like, that's just not true. Look at his physique. He clearly was not in tip-top shape for this. And if he did, like if he really took this seriously, then he is comically bad at boxing because he was extremely bad at boxing that night. But he just obviously didn't. He went in there for a paycheck, whether he overestimated his skills,

underestimated Jake Paul, or just decided he didn't care at all. He was in it for the money. None of that was the best Ben Asgram we could have. possibly seen, but I don't think it would have mattered. The best Ben Ascran still gets knocked out because he's not good at boxing and as much as people want to hate, J. Paul at least has a little bit of talent at this. He's never going to be a legitimate, great boxer. But he's a good celebrity boxer. He's young. He has power in some sense of this. He's clearly taking it seriously. So,

yeah, definitely negatively impacts Ben Ascran's legacy. But Ben Ascred does not care at all because he doesn't give a shit about his legacy. He took all that money and he's probably bought Bitcoin and Dogecoin and seven other different kinds of crypto and he's going to tweet about it for the next six months and all the money he made by investing in crypto and you guys are idiots and you got to get on the crypto train and he's going to go throw some Frisbee's and call it a day. Last thing on this. And by the way, Ben Ask Guy, I think's handling this all very, very well.

This is a guy who had major hip surgery in September. So take that as you will. He's never really looked like a bodybuilder or he never looked like ravishing Rick Brood. But yeah, he kind of looked like my 42 year old brother up on the scale. But that's all right because he probably would beat my 42 year old brother in a fight. But with Jake Paul Jed, he has clearly found a niche that everybody is somehow fascinated by whether good or for bad.

It's working. He's getting attention. He has 95% of the MMA fighting community. him out for a fight, which he is very aware of, which is why he chose to fight Ben Ascran. The fight was not fixed. And anybody who thought, like, he took a dive is an idiot. But the choosing of opponents, picking Ben Ascran, this is like, it's fixing a win for him. He knew what was going to happen in that fight. And it was very smart on him to choose Ben Ascran as the opponent because he knew one, he would build the fight and two, he would probably win.

So be that as a may, Jed. What should be next for Jake Paul? Like, do we throw a him Dylan Danis, you know, make that money, get another win. Do we give him a Tyron Woodley? Do we give him a boxer? Like, I know you want to get to Connor, but is it Connor right now? Have we gotten there again? No. So I don't think you throw him Dylan Danis now because Dylan Danis is the set up fight for Connor. Like Connor will be in Dylan's corner. Dylan will get colded in a round and then that sets up the fight. and I don't think Connor is in line to fight Jake Paul right now. I don't think that's doable until middle of next year at the earliest. So Jake Paul is going to want to fight again.

And who you give him is a tough one. Like Tyron Woodley would make a lot of sense, but Tyrone Woodley is like a much more dangerous opponent than Ben Asker is. So like that's really risking the biscuit right there. Like Jake Paul and Dylan Danes, this is a safe fight. At the show, there was a dude on the undercard who is like a millionaire or something and fought the Raygaeton dude, Raycon, who can't fight at all and beat his ass,

and he's trying to fight Jake Paul. I don't know that that happens, but, like, that wouldn't be awful because Jake Paul could probably win that fight. You just got to give him somebody to spin his wheels. It doesn't need to be a boxer and an MMA fighter because those have a much higher likelihood of beating him up. You just got to bide your time. Maybe Dylan Danes, if he, like, if Jake Paul wants to take half the year off

and then fight Dylan Danes in the fall, late fall, early, like early winter, that timeline makes perfect sense. But if he wants to get back in there, I don't know. I kind of feel like Nick Diaz beats the hell out of him, but Nick Diaz keeps pretending like he's going to fight a game. And Nick Diaz hasn't fought in like 10 years. So maybe that's not the worst matchup for Jake Paul. I just, I don't know who you give him to.

It's not going to matter. Everyone's going to tune in because he has found the lane of people who want to watch him get knocked out. And that's a lucrative lane to be in, baby. Drake, do you even care to fantasy matchmake for Joe Ball here? Or is there somebody you want to see him? If we weren't on a show right now, I just wouldn't even answer this. I cannot care any less, man. I'm so checked out of this conversation.

Boy, like ideally, I think it would be great to see him against an actual boxer since he is boxing. And, you know, as Jed pointed out, he said that Jake is taking this seriously. But how can you tell how serious he's taking it when he's not facing actually good, talented boxers? You know how many three-no boxers face good boxers? None. No three-and-o-boxers ever fought a good boxer. That's not how boxing works. You fight scrubs, and then when you have like 10 or 12 wins, you succeed, and then you fight somebody who might actually be good.

Jake Paul's just doing it on a bigger stage and getting more money. Where is your sense of whimsy, Jake Griggs? For a man who looks like a child's character, why do you not have more fun with sports? I do. Just not this. Not this. Doesn't do it for me. I don't know if Jake was going to, if I had to pick somebody for him to fight, I guess the Woodley one would be the one. If you want to go by stories and the whimsy, Jed,

there's the connection there already. Obviously, the Dylan Dennis one is so easy, but going from Ben to Dylan, that seems just like, it may be the same thing, if not a step down, because we know that results probably going to be the same. But then that ultimately gets him to the counter fight,

as you mentioned. But in terms of immediate story and what seems more likely, I guess the Woodley one would be the one. But I really don't care. The super sad thing is that the Woodley fight makes sense and it's definitely a date, like a risk. Jake Paul has like a non-zero chance to win that. Like he can win that fight, which is, wow, that is depressing Vitire in Woodley. Well, listen, I'm sure this will not be the last time we talk about Jake Paul on between the links. I'm hoping this is the last time we talk about Jake Paul for a few months at least,

but we're going to move ahead to another big performance from this past Saturday night, one that Drake will probably be much more proud to discuss. Meanwhile, the point for round one goes to, got to give it to Jedmishu, despite the peeps. Whoa. Wow. new winter music. I like it. That was a fun sound drop.

That was a fun sound drop. Wow. I'm, I am, I'm blown away. See, the budget for the show is increasing. We're seeing this here. This is big news. But let's head to our good friends over at the UFC because while Jake Paul versus Ben Asker is going down, Robert Whitaker took on Kelvin Gasselam

in the main event of UFC Vegas 24 and good old Bobby Knuckles delivered the goods in a big way, a five-round unanimous decision. He swept all three scorecards, but Gasolm was game as hell. This is one of those 50-45s in the scorecard where Gasolm was much more competitive than the 50-45 states, but Whitaker was just that damn good on Saturday night. So Drake will begin with you.

This is where your Saturday night was spent. Your reaction to Robert Whitaker's win over Kelvin Gasolam, his third straight win since dropping the best. out. Man, I cannot say enough good things about Robert Whitaker. This guy, I think, already before this fight, on the two wins that he had before that was looking better than ever. And I think it was arguable at that point in those two fights going into this one.

But now it's undeniable. Like the way that he looked in that fight was just on point with absolutely everything. And it's not that Kelvin came in and just gave it to him because Kelvin came in looking for a fight and was there. showed up. I thought he had some moments for sure, but it just was not enough because that's how good Robert Whitaker is now. And he's mixing together his game better than ever. And, you know, that kind of signature head kick that he has that he hides so insanely well behind his punches, it's looking even sharper and, you know, more elusive hidden than it was prior, which it

already very much was. But just overall, I think even you look at, everyone talks about the striking, which is where he predominantly beat Calvin, but even the grappling where you would have thought, and I would have hoped that Kelvin would have tried to take that fight there more. I believe he only went for like one takedown in maybe the third round or something like that. But in the moments it did hit the ground. It was from Robert Whitaker and his control and some of the transitions he used, especially in that fifth round. I was like, wow, like it was insane.

And yes, that was the fifth round. So Kelvin was a little more tired after getting pieced up for most of that. But still, Kelvin's very accomplished and solid wrestler in his own right, which is why I wish you would have used it more, at least early on. so yeah man he looked so incredibly good and i think that if he looks like that and fights that way again continues to fight that way and utilize every part of his game it is a tough tough fight for sonya more on that in a moment but uh jed i know on saturday in the post fight show you were pretty much our our on-site analyst of you know because you were at asker and paul you gave us the

lowdown on everything that happened, things that we saw on television, things that we didn't. You hadn't seen this fight. Have you gone back and watched this performance from good old Bobby Knuckles? And if so, what did you make of it? I have. And my thoughts are basically the same that I said off the cuff Saturday without having seen it. I mean, tremendous performance from Robert Rittaker. Shout out to him because I think this is, for my money, this is the best run any fighters had after losing a belt. I think the only other person who you could maybe consider would be Frankie Edgar after he lost the lightweight belt, drop down a featherweight lost to Aldo, but put together after that Aldo lost put together like a real run over top top guys.

Usually if a guy loses the belt, you know, there's the immediate rematch or whatever and then that kind of his career trajectory is just not the same. A lot of that is because you lose the belt and you get old. Whitaker, not the case. He lost the belt to a better. fighter and he has proved himself to still be a top guy. I mean, the top guy, not a top guy. He's the top dude. He absolutely deserves a title fight. I will watch it.

It'll be great. High level makes martial arts. I don't have any belief that he will beat Israel Adisania because I didn't think he was going to beat him the first time they fought. He super did not do that the first time they fought. I think he can be more competitive. But I don't think he's more competitive. because he's grown as a fighter.

I'm seeing something new. I'm sure that he has grown. I just don't know that we're seeing any great leaps from Whitaker here, anything that shows me that he's going to be different. I see that he is just unbelievably good. He's super consistent, super good. I think he did have a bad night against Adasanya. So if they rematch,

he won't just rush in and get lit up like he did. But I don't think he's going to win a protracted stand-up battle with the best striker we've ever seen in the sport. And I don't think he's going to be able or effectively, like be able to or successfully wrestle Adasania. So he's stuck in a kickboxing match primarily, and he's just going to lose that. He doesn't have any of the attributes that will make him win that fight.

And what we've seen trouble, Adasania is big power. Like, that's it. Adasanya shelled up and wouldn't act, like act against Earl Romero. That's why he lost the old mayor, the greatest middleweight of all time. And then that's why he lost the en Blavich.

Like he didn't want to, the huge shots coming back at him. He's not afraid of the power, but it does make him act more cautiously. And Whitaker is not a soft hitter, but he's not bringing the same artillery. Adasanya's not going to be afraid to open up on him. I just don't see the avenue for Whitaker, unless Adasania has a really bad day. I think that that style just massively favors the champ. But I absolutely want to see that. fight again because it's the two best guys in the division that aren't named Joel

Romero fighting. I know, you know, we spent a lot of time last week weighing in on how likely it would be with the win for Whitaker to get the rematch with Alassania. We all sort of understood the Adasania side. Like, how could I possibly do it better that I did it the first time? That whole argument. But what Whitaker has done recently, Jeddy made a great point. Losing the title, he's three wins in nine months for a top guy, the number one ranked

guy outside of the champion. I mean, wins over Darren Till, Jared Cananeer, and now Kevin Gasselham, obviously there's no argument here. He should be fighting for the belt. Jed, you kind of broke down why you don't think the fight will be drastically different. But Drake, you are our purest panelist after all. Did Whitaker's performance on Saturday make you super interested in the rematch without a stunning? Like, I know in this sport sometimes, no matter what, you kind of just run into a guy that has your number. But do you look at this? potential second fight and think, you know what?

I think this could go drastically different than the first fight. Oh, absolutely. I think it has the potential to do so. And especially after seeing the Jan Blahovic fight, and yes, that was up a weight class. But if you look at how Blahovic was able to beat him, particularly in those last two rounds,

where he was able to take him down, we've seen in the past that Adisanya, that's kind of a good thing to employ on him, push the pace and get, Get him down if he possibly can. Go back to the first Marvin-Mittory fight, which, you know, Marvin had some success in that area, not enough to ultimately get him to win on the judge's scorecards, but one judge, and some people do believe he should have. Not me, myself.

But, you know, I think that that is a good plan of attack. And with the striking skills that Whitaker has had and maybe more patience, as I said last week, that I felt he's shown in the fights prior to this Kelvin Gaston one and then just the all-around improvements he has made and showed off in this fight, I think it makes it very interesting. And like I said, if he can mix it up against Adisania, especially after seeing how Blahevich was able to do things and get the win over him, I am very, very excited for it. I would be very surprised if it is the same as the first fight,

because Whitaker looked like he was overextending himself a little bit in some of those exchanges, and obviously got caught by doing that. So he just looks very different since that fight. and in all areas. And without Asana, he has that loss. And I don't think he's been exposed by Blahovic, but it definitely helps outline a blueprint a little bit, especially if somebody, let's say, Whitaker,

can fully draw that out at middleweight specifically. So, yeah, man, I wasn't super excited for it before this Kelm Gaston fight. I thought it was definitely the fight to make Whitaker deserved it and earned it. but now I'm all in for it. I'm very hyped for it. Mike, I have to do something I've never done on this show before.

I have to give Drake props because Drake, Drake is correct. He's figured it out. He solved the blueprint to be Israel-Ata-Sanya for Robert Whitaker. And it's for former welterweight Robert Whitaker to balloon up to the size of large light heavyweight Jan Blahevich, at which point in the fourth and fifth rounds, then he can sit on Izzy for 10 minutes and win. So yes, I will admit that if he can do that

and become 30 pounds heavier before the next fight, my money's on Whitaker all day. Whitaker has a very good top game, though. I mean, you saw it in the fight on Saturday, Jed. I don't think he did, though. I don't think he did. He does, and he's a really good wrestler, Pan Am champion, or not Pan Am champion, but he qualified for the Pan Ams.

like, Maddie Chant for Australia, super good wrestler. Jan Blavovich outweighs him by 40 pounds and is like a very solid wrestler. And it's not like Jan got those takedowns by being like super clean on his entries. Like he just manned him up because he's a huge dude. Like we so often, it is the weirdest thing to me in this sport that like everybody loses their mind about the advantages fighters get from cutting weight, which are true. but then we just like forget that the true best martial art style is just being huge. Like if you are just way bigger, that's a way better fighting style than like anything. Because as dope as Demetrius Johnson is, like Chris Dawkins can probably beat his ass because he's enormous.

That's it. Like, young Bofovich is good and huge. And so Wittaker can't replicate what Blythe which did because he's not huge. He's like a perfectly adequately sized middleweight. Fair point. Fair point. But listen, that's going to be a great fight. I thought Whitaker looked sensational, A-plus performance.

When you get Marvin Vittori to stay quiet and stay with a painstaken look on his face, I mean, he knew in that moment he wasn't against him. He's still trying. God bless him. He realized what happened. He's still trying. He's still on Twitter lobbying for the out-as-oddied-you-fight. It's not going to happen.

God bless him for trying, but he's just not going to get it. The fight to make, you do him and Derek Brunson, and we'll see who comes out of that. But Whitaker obviously has earned the rematch. I hope we get to see it sometime this year. Hopefully summer, late summer, maybe early fall. We'll see what happens. But we're getting ready to move ahead to this Saturday's event.

UFC 261. The point for round two goes to Uriah Hall's favorite media member, Drake Riggs, is on the board. It is one-to-one. What a compliment. Did you not watch the media day yesterday, Jed? No. I know that your eye hall like hates people,

but I have no idea what this in reference to. Drake asked the question. Your eye hall basically stopped the press conference to give praise and props to Drake Riggs attire and how he presented himself and said you're the... Oh, I know you're right. It's the media too. So way to go, buddy.

Yeah, he loves Drake. He loves Drake. He said he's the effing man. but you use the actual A direct quote. A direct quote. But listen, speaking of your eye haul, let us talk about

UFC 21. This Saturday night in Jacksonville goes down in front of a sold-out crowd at the five-star veterans of memorial arena. Three title fights, including the main event between welterweight champion Kamar Usman and the BMF champ,

Jorge Mazvedal. We will start with that fight, Jedmish. We've seen this fight before. It was on six days. noticed not just for Mazadol, but for both guys. They now get a full camp to prepare for one another, no 30-pound weight cuts for Mazadol. No excuses for either guy. Usman versus Mazadal 2 coming up on Saturday, Jed, so let me ask you this. We saw the sort of fallout, I believe you were on this program,

one of the many times. From their first meeting in July, was not a fan-friendly affair between these two guys. Mazadal stock has kind of dropped amongst fans for a variety of reasons. Usman, was able to get a little bit of steam back after the win over Gilbert Burns. Who needs this one more? Usman or Mazadol. I've been thinking about this a lot because there are layers here, right? I think both men needed a lot and simultaneously they don't need it at all. So for Usman, like, if he loses, it's pretty bad for him, right?

Like he already beat this guy dominantly. He called out a dude that most people don't think deserves a shot. he's on the precipice of like kind of cementing himself as you know the third maybe second best wealth weight of all time really reasonably the third and kind of locking up a lot of things from a legacy standpoint that matter and a lawsuit would be pretty cataclysmic for all of that on the other side of things the loss he does set up a trilogy which would be quite lucrative so he's got that going for for moscit all i think a win here validates his entire career in certain respects and is obviously enormous. So whereas a loss, he'll never get a title

shot again probably. At the same time, like a loss doesn't really hurt him because Maswell has never been a title guy until last year. And even then, he still sort of existed outside the realm of the belt, a la Connor McGregor and Nate Diaz. He's his own entity that matters unto himself. He has the BMF title. So it's hard for me to say who needs this more. I'm just going to side with Usman because Usman has more to lose, so he needs to win more. Whereas if Mosterol loses, yeah, it's a bit of a blow in some respect, but he's still

making very good money. He still has a rematch with Nate Diaz or Connor McGregor fight or all these other the Colby Covington fight obviously. Whereas if Ustman loses, man, that's maybe makes us reconsider his whole career, which is not great for a guy that Joe Rogan is desperately trying to anoint as the greatest welterweight of all time because Joe Rogan is an insane person. All right, Drake, what do you think?

Who needs this one more? We got Kamar Usman, who's, like Jed said, he's not at GSP level. A lot of people are throwing that out there. He's not there yet. Let's just be perfectly clear. He's on the road. He's not there yet. He's not even in the same, you know, part of the region of the country yet.

He's just not. GSP is number one and he's going to be there for a little while. Usman can get there, though. If he loses, Mazadol said, I'll give you the rematch. But if Mazadol loses, as long as Usman's the champion, he ain't getting another title shot. And he's been very clear that even though it's a lot about money for Mazadol, he wants his title.

The title needs a lot to him. So who needs this one more? Kamar Usman or Jorge Mazdaal on Saturday night. I feel like it is definitely Usman here. and maybe not as extreme or as much as Jed said it was because I think that considering that he already beat Mazvedal pretty clearly, it wouldn't hurt as much. And then probably the trilogy fight could be a thing the UFC could do

maybe right after or at some point there's that. So the fact that Usman would lose his title and he's already beaten pretty much most people in the division, he's running into rematches now with this one, which wasn't even deserved, but like Leon, Colby, which is presumably going to be next, according to Dana. Gilbert Burns is still floating around the top. Like, it would put him in a very, very odd spot, assuming, let's say he didn't get that trilogy fight

that would possibly come after. And Mazvedol just an hour ago did say that he would be fine with giving him the trilogy fight right after if Masbidol was to win. As for Mazvidol, man, like, yeah, he can, sure, I'm sure he wants to be the actual champion more than just, the BMF champion, but he is still the BMF champion. He brought the belt to the press conference just now. That is a thing that if one of one happened at one time,

no one could take it away from him, that's still an easy selling point. And the UFC is using that as a selling point. Like, I feel like he's reached a point where it doesn't really hurt him. He'll still get big fights, be in a great financial position, create buzz. The fans love him still. In terms of positioning just in the grand scheme of, things. It feels like there's a lot

to lose for Usman who, despite him getting better and better with seemingly each fight and raising his stock and spot in history as one of the greatest welter weights, like people prefer these other personalities, it seems, right now and somebody like Mazvedol who

has plenty of other matchups. You mentioned the Diaz rematch there. You know, the Colby fight still floating around. Even the Leon Edwards one, which people forget about the three-piece of Minnesota was an incident that happened. Like, there are some big possibilities for Masvidol, despite Kamar Ustman and being there.

And if he loses to him twice, then yeah, he's out of that. But it's similar to Connor, I think, and not to the same degree, but that feels like the same spot Mazfadol's in, I would say, similar, not the exact same, but I think it's definitely more on Usman in this case. Just looking at the comments,

it is clear that Drake Riggs is the Daniel Bryan of between the lengths. I mean, the amount of The amount of fans have come along for the ride. You guys have the same answer. You're both saying who's something like Drake's right here. I love it though. I love it.

This is great. This is a role I'm driving. This is where I want to be. You love the heel role. You love being that and, uh, and you play it so well. But to kind of build off that, because some of the other comments outside of everyone saying Drake was right

and that they agree with Drake is that there are people who think this fight sucks. They think the main event is awful and it shouldn't happen. We talked about the narratives. We talked about the quote-unquote excuses about the short time, the big weight cuts, the empty arena, UFC 251, Abu Dhabi, all that stuff. Those are off the table here, Drake. So with that being said, do you see a way this fight goes any differently than the first one did Saturday night? I mean, outside of another flying knee or something crazy like that, I just, I just can't, man.

Like, the first fight, yes, it was on short notice for both guys. The whole narrative about that is about Mazvedal, but they both had the equal amount of time to prepare for each other. And I remember, I'm pretty sure that Mazvedal said he was, has been training for, you know, Usman anyway, leading up to that fight. So, you know, if you want to believe him there, it's like, you know, he was aware and. preparing for Usman despite that. But they both had equal time, and they both have equal time now, which is more time. So considering how the first fight went and seeing what Usman has done since then, well, Mazbital hasn't done anything fighting-wise in the cage,

I see no reason for this not to go the same way, if not better, for Usman, who looked incredible against Burns despite, you know, taking some damage in the first round and showing that, yeah, he could be hit. which is a thing to where you look at, okay, Mazbollah, if you land something, which he did land a little bit in that first round, and I believe maybe at least one judge gave him the first round. Like, that was obviously the most competitive round of that fight.

If he approaches things similarly, which Usman very well could, then, yeah, there's definitely a possibility in that first round. But, man, just looking at how he adapted, how Usman adapted in that Burns fight, and how Usman did against Mazbado the first time, I don't see why it should be any different win. we haven't we don't know what to expect from masvital i guess but just from what we've seen i think it'll be the same if not worse for masvital what do you think jad can this fight go any differently

than the first fight so if you go back to i don't know any of my various appearances on this show or other programming on our website you're going to see me uh just bag on this fight a lot and much like with triller fight club i've had a change of heart as the event has gotten closer. So I'm going to blow your mind here, Mike. Not only do I think it can happen, I am going to pick Jorge Mosvidal to knock out Kamara Usman on Saturday night.

And here's why. It's not because I buy the I wasn't training thing. I think that's a garbage argument. It seemed pretty obvious that Mosvado had been training. Maybe it wasn't like full camp mode, but he was not just like on a yacht, throwing back mitis or tequila. He's a tequila guy, I forgot.

I think he was prepared. But I think there is a big difference between, you know, being sort of prepared and getting the call. You got seven days to fight. And I think that some of that weighed in his head. So you go back and rewatch that fight. And Mosfadol had a good first round. I scored it for him.

I know I think two judges scored it for Usman and that's fine as well. But if you look at that first round, what you're going to see is Mastradal fights like he doesn't fight. Like he has not and never really has been a dude who comes out and just tries to get you. Like, that's never been his game outside of the flying knee on Ascran, which was like a pre-drilled planned attack because Ascran always ducks his head immediately. Mastrol, he's a technician.

Like, we use the word journeyman a lot in MMA, and like Mosswell is all the best parts of that. He's a dude who has a tremendous amount of skill. He's a really good striker with the layers in depth to his game. And he lets fights come to him. In fact, that was like the big knock on him before this run is he lost a lot of garbage split decisions because he wouldn't press the action. He didn't go for the kill enough. And I think we just saw that dial get ramped too high against Usman.

He thought, I'm going to come, I'm going to bolt this dude early. He shot his wad and then he got tired. Usman took over with clenching, wrestling, the jab, bodywork, full credit to Usman. But I think we've got a couple of different things. One, Mossadol knows now that he can't really see. spark Usman in one. Like that's, he had a chance, he didn't do it. He's going to come in a little more patient.

Two, Usman is 33 going on 50, it seems like. Like, this could just be some residuals of me thinking Gilbert Burns sucks because I'm never going to not think Gilbert Burns isn't a bad welterway. But Gilbert Burns damn near got the goose in one round against Usman two and a half months ago. Like that wasn't a long time ago for Usman to recover from getting concussed. by a lightweight. Like that just happened. Mastvedol is as hard as burns. He's a better technical striker. We saw in the first fight, Mastvedol really does have the ability to stop most of Ustman's takedowns. He can't stop them all, but the issue that got him was getting backed up to the fence,

not being able to circle. And largely, I attribute that to shooting his watt early. I think we're going to see more measured Jorge Mospadol. I think Ustman has lost to step. Dude already has shot knees. He's just coming off getting jacked up by a lightweight, like I said. I think we're going to see it. I've come full circle. Jorge Mosvall is going to come in. He's going to take his time. He's going to pick Usman apart. Usman's not going to be able to rely on the jab as heavily because Mosidol is a much better defensive fighter than Gilbert Burns is. And he's going to get the damn thing done. Jorge Mosvadoll and new on Saturday. Wow. No air horn for that? I know, that's trash.

Paising's far too affected by the haters in the comments. The sleep at the wheel. Wow. Go with a big dog move. All right. Last thing on this, and then we'll move on to the deep cuts and the other title fights. Clearly, Jed, Mazadol is the bigger draw. He's the bigger star.

This is undebatable. Usman is not close from a money drawing standpoint. I'm not trying to be a jerk. He just isn't. Math does not lie. But I will say this. the UFC, ESPN, the broadcast partners, they're doing everything they can in this build

to get Usman's name out there. Big shows. He's the ESPN cover story right now. The promotion is trying to get him over. So I guess my question is, is dead, is it enough? Like if he goes out there and he beats Mazadol, if he stops Mazadol,

if he Bobby Knuckles Jorge Mazadol on Saturday, can he get that rub? Can Usman get that next step, get to that next level? You just made it even more, compelling argument for my argument that I made. Because every time the UFC tries to go big and build somebody, it blows up in their friggin faces.

Remember when Kane Velazquez was the dude and they put him on ABC and then JBS sparked him in like four seconds and Dana just cried about Kay didn't file the gameplay. It should have been shooting. You've just made a great argument even on top of all the brilliant arguments I just made about why it's going to happen. To answer your question, though, no. They can't fix this because Star Power is one of those things. You got it or you don't.

Usman is going to, he is not a terrible star. He's a great dude. He's a good champion. And he's around long enough that he can build a following. It's never going to be, he's never going to get that osmosis. You know, oh, I knocked out Nate Diaz. Now I'm super important. Or, oh, I beat Ben Ascran same thing.

Or Connor's. Oh, I choked out. or Nate Diaz says, oh, I choked out Connor, now I'm a big star. He doesn't have that it factor inherently. You have to have the star power to get the boost from somebody else. And he just doesn't have it. And that's not a knock on him. Most people don't.

Like, take Drake Griggs. He doesn't have it. So even though he beat me last week, nobody cared about him. He doesn't get the rub for me because he just doesn't have it inside. And that's not his fault, Mike. We can't blame him. What kind of sound effect we're going to get? All right, Drake, your chance to respond here.

One, can Usman get the proverbial rub as the pro wrestling fan say if he goes out there? I mean, a win is probably not going to do it, but if he goes out there and dominates Mazadol or stops him or does what Whitaker did on Saturday night, can he get to that next level? And two, just your response overall to everything Jed had to say. Well, the people have spoken, man. I think of pretty clearly the man of the people over here, and that's why I'm a defending champion defending my throne. right now. But, um, you know, as for, uh, Mesvedal and Usman, I, I don't know. I don't, I don't think so. No matter how he wins, because we already saw this. He already beat him one time very clearly on Fight Island with the first show for Fight Island. Yeah, not so much time to build that

fight that time, but still that card did very good numbers and he did very well in that fight. I feel like Usman is just stuck as one of those guys who just for some reason, people will not latch on to him as a very big star. And that kind of happens to some of these super duper talented guys who are, for the most part, pretty, you know, have pretty pure, I guess, mentalities, except for when Usman is calling for, you know, making this rematch happen because he wants to shut up, Masfadol for the most part. So just in that kind of position, no matter how good he is or how he wins,

unless he really changes things and goes the Henry Sehudo route, that I don't know if it's going to happen, but will he do that? If he hasn't done it now, I do not think he's going to start after another potential domination over Usman, over Masby, all I mean, but even then,

he might just be a guy where people would like him even less if he did that. And I guess that's kind of what happened with Sohudo, but I don't know. Unfortunately, I feel like he's just going to be stuck

at kind of maybe around the same, floating around the same stardom that he possibly can, be so we'll see i guess i'm kind of i mean i'm in agreement with both of you honestly because i mean if if he didn't get the rub from stopping colby i don't think it's ever going to happen at this point like i don't know what it wasn't like a great stoppage like if he had sparked colby he might have gotten a little more but yeah it's not going to happen come out more he's not cool and that's the problem like he's i mean look like again super great dude and a great fighter but only don't

Dork say stuff like, I'm better than everybody because my mind is stronger than everybody else. Like, that's not something cool people say. And so you're just, like, that's your mic time. My mind is strong. Like, okay, that's probably accurate. That's just not a thing cool people say. I actually thought he did pretty good at the press conference today. And maybe I kind of like the eye.

The only reason you're here is because I chose you. I kind of dug that line. That was a good little heel line by Mr. it was meant obviously a pro i assumed drake it sounded to me i was watching it on the mma fighting stream this is a pro mazadol crowd for that press conference oh very much so it was it was completely one-sided um yeah very very heavily in favor of masbidal and it definitely helps when he sticks around afterwards to take pictures with a very long line of people so that was socially distanced mind you so we're hopefully safe in that regard but uh yeah it was one-way traffic in terms of

who the fans wanted in that. I am shocked that Kamar Usman is not the favorite in Jacksonville, Florida. Crazy. Crazy. Oh, man. Maybe he's a season Jags ticket holder. Who knows? But listen, it's a-

Nobody's a season tag's ticket holder. I know. I know. Listen, it is, I didn't have an issue with this fight being made to begin with. I thought it made perfect sense because we don't have a number. Like, I like the Colby idea. Colby gets either of those two guys. makes all the sense in the world.

But we don't have like a clear cut number one guy. I think Ouse was smart calling out Mazadol. We're going to get the fight. By the time we get to Saturday, everyone's going to be jazzed about it. And then we'll see what happens. Maybe it was been just, maybe the fight just lets everybody down again. But everyone's in a pretty good job selling it so far. I'm ready for it.

I'm also ready to talk about the rest of the card on Saturday. The point for round three goes to, I'm going with the peeps. Drake Riggs is up two to one. And Jed can't believe it. This is unbelievable. But we already know what's going to happen. So, I mean, honestly, no one's getting upset. Listen, we talked about the main event.

The main event is interesting. But we still get two other title fights on Saturday. We got Zhang Wei Li versus Rosamai Yunus for the Strawway title. Things have gotten a little interesting between these two ladies, got a little political on the road to the fight. We got Valentina Shepchenko versus Jaskandraj for the women's flyway title. both are interesting matchups. A lot of people feel like each champion, in a way, is taking on their toughest challenger that they can face right now.

Whether that's true or not, we will see it on Saturday. But Drake, we will begin with you. Of these two title fights, which one interests you more? And why? Is it Zhang Wei v. Rose or Valentina Shepchenko versus Jaskan Drog and why? I can't help but go with the Strawway title fight. And that's nothing against the Andrage versus Shepchenko matchup, because I do like that one, you know, a decent amount more probably

than some of the other flyway title fights we've gotten recently from Valentina. But you just look at the fact that we haven't had, Whaley defending her title over a full year in a fight that was one of the greatest fights we've ever seen, having waited that long, that alone makes it the fight where, oh, man, she's back. the girl that just defended her title against Yawanna, the former go to this, well, still the go to this division, former champion.

Like, that's excitement enough, I think, for people. But taking on Rose, who is another former champion and the one who knocked out, you know, the aforementioned Yonna, this matchup is just something we've been anticipating for far longer than we should have now. And stylistically, they both match up tremendously.

They've been in so many good fights and just putting them together and just getting this one finally is a lot better, I think, then yes, it's a big deal for Jessica Andrage, former champion of Strawway, going up to flyway, looking to become, you know, a double champ, not at the same time as, you know, holding the Strawaway title. But if she beats Valentina Shevchenko, which would also be an incredible upset, you know, on top of that, unfortunately, it just is not as likely to be as crazy and awesome of a fight. I think that's just undeniable. When you look at that fight, Andraj versus

Shevchenko, it just reminds me, I see some. similarities to Yawanna versus Androge, which that didn't go very good for Androge, especially considering the game plan she kind of sounds like she is leaning towards, which is very similar to the approach she had for Yowana. So against Valentina, I just do not think that's going to work, and she'll be able to replicate that pretty well. As for Whaley versus Rose, though, I think they're equal in a whole lot of areas except for strength and power in favor of Weyley.

So I expect that to be the X factor. but man, that fight can just really go in a whole lot more places than I think everybody expects Valentina versus Androge too. Jed, we've obviously, you've been on the show like 20 times. So it has come up a few times that you can kind of judge how big a fight is when outsiders or casuals will hit you up and ask you about a certain fight. I feel like for me, a lot of people are asking me about Zhang Wei Li versus Rosamai Yunus. and I have fans who watched the Yawanna fight with Zhang Wei Li. They loved it. And they actually think they're going on a limb and say this one could be even better than

Zhang Wei v. Yanni and Jacek. So I have a feeling you're going with that compared to the other fight because Valentin is that dominant. But, I mean, do you have an argument the other way at all? You couldn't be more wrong, Mike. I'm definitely going the other way. I've got a couple arguments. One, because I'm not a coward. I'm not going to take the low-hanging fruit like my comment just did.

obviously the easy one is the one that's not the minus 700 favorite. But again, I'm not a coward. So here's the reasons why because I actually believe most of these. I'm not just saying them. First off, I have no qual of with Wiley Zhang versus Rosenheimian. That's an awesome fight. And let's just take a minute to appreciate that the four women fighting in the title fights on this card are numbers two through five in the UFC's female pound-for-pound rankings behind only Amanda Dunez. Like, that's not a thing that ever happens.

So that's awesome. We're getting four of the five best women in the world fighting against each other. That's tremendous. But I am certainly more interested in Shevchenko for a number of reasons. And it's not just that I've been driving the Shevchenko fan club bullet train since day one, which I have. I have the receipts. So first, I would have been way cooler with the Wiley Shia. gang Rose Namahoonus until Rose decided to start talking about some stuff that she probably

shouldn't talk about in general because she's super not all that knowledgeable about it. But now it's created this really awful political dynamic. And the first fight back with fans in Jacksonville, I feel like that's going to be the worst walk to the cage and fan audience in over, well, certainly over a year because we haven't had one. But there's just going to be a lot of USA chance that I'm not really vibing about. this because I don't agree with what Rose said. So that's a point against that one. Second point against that one, I actually think this fight is fairly straightforward for me to view. Like Rose has

great footwork and can work at range, but we saw her struggle mightily with Jessica and Draug. Basically just because Androge was like, nah, I'm good and walks through her shots and just started leveling her. Catoed her with one of the dopest chaos of all time the first time and should have gotten a draw in the rematch, and if that was five rounds, that would have been an Androge fight almost all the way. So Wiley Zhang, we should not forget that Wiley won the title by just meeting Jessica and Drozge one of the most physically imposing fighters in the world, especially for friggin straw weights, just met her in the center of the cage and out, outmuffled her. It was just like, I am harder than you. And so that just seems like a bad

recipe for Rose. So I think the fight's going to look a lot like Androge Namahunas, too. Only it might start going against Navajunas earlier. And so that's awesome. I'm super psyched to watch that fight. I just think I know what's going to happen. With Shevchenko Andraj,

one, I think that that is like Androj is a former champion. This is awesome. There are so few challengers for Shevchenko that have even a possibility of beating her that that makes it. Shevchenko is, for my money, the best fighter in a world right now when you when you take it as her level of skill versus her contemporaries i think that

she is head and shoulders above everybody else competing in her weight class and i think that that that gap's bigger than anywhere now that hubibs retired officially officially plus like i could just see a world where drudge gets it done where she just does the same thing of like i i know that chivchenko's really good and really technical i'm just i just don't care i'm going to walk her down and land a big shot. Everybody lost their damn minds of Chivchenko's last fight because Jennifer May I was able to hold on to her for like a hot minute. And And Raj can at least do that better. So to me, I'm honestly like legitimately more interested in the Schifchenko fight for a number of reasons. I can't quibble with the argument that like maybe the better in cage fight,

certainly from a fan perspective, because let's not pretend that Schipchenko's a place cup of tea. is the co-main event. But when you add up all the factors, like if I could only pick one, I think I'm taking Chip Chanko and Drudge. I dig it. And of course, the rest of the card is interesting as well.

The main card is really good. We get some fun prelim fights. Jed, this is not the deep cut question. We will get there. But what's the biggest storyline heading into Saturday outside of the title fights, in your opinion?

I mean, it's generous when you say that the rest of this card is good because it is not. The main card I said is pretty good. Oh, the rest of the main card. I misheard you. I was just to say the early prelims have nobody that has a Wikipedia page, which is always spectacular. I think for me, kind of the other storyline that would jump out here is,

is your eye hall, Chris Wyden. Because middleweight is pretty open. Like we talked earlier about Bobby Knuckles, and he's probably next in line. And Marvin Vittori and Brunson are hanging around. if Wydenman gets a win, there's a world where he can snake his way into a title shot because he's a former champion with a couple of wins under his belt. And Uriah Hall just knocked out Anderson Silva.

I don't think that counts for much in the year of our Lord 2021. But other people sure do. And if he can also knock out Chris Wydenman, not a lot of people have knocked out both of those two men. And so that's a feather in his cap. And maybe, maybe with the win here, Uriah Hall can. finally like show the promise that Dana White gave him all those years ago. I don't think he can, but it's possible. Maybe it's not too late for him.

Drake, what's your biggest storyline outside of the title fights heading into Saturday? It's tough, man, because I feel like there just isn't that much story outside of the title fights. These three all have so much, you know, kind of drama a little bit around the outside of the fighting side of it. then actually for the fights themselves. I like what Jed is saying about, you know, Hall and Wydenman too, but I don't know. I just don't feel it quite the same in terms of the energy or just when you look at the division where, you know,

we got Brunson, Vittori, Whitaker, all above these guys. So I think they will have to wait, even for the winner will be very close no matter what. But I guess if I had to pick, I think that is, that's a good choice. go with Anthony Smith versus Jimmy Crute, actually, which opens up the main card. You know, Jimmy Crude getting the biggest fight of his career, biggest opportunity, where he's taking on the number six ranked Anthony Smith, who, man, I did not realize that Anthony Smith has been in seven straight main events. This is the, this is breaking that until now.

So taking on Jimmy Smith, not Jimmy Smith, Jimmy Crute, who, that would be something, could you imagine. Right. So, yeah, it's. It's another Devin Clark type of matchup where Anthony Smith, obviously, you know, he got the brakes beat off of him against Glover. And then Rackage didn't really beat him up as badly, but very dominant clear victory. One way traffic in that one as well. Then he rebounds in the first round against Devin Clark, which was kind of a, not a gimmy fight necessarily, but clearly a step down from the guys that he was fighting prior to that.

And as being a title contender fighting John Jones and Gustafson and what have you. now again Jimmy Crout who similar but a guy who is more capable of making waves I think we've seen less from him than Clark for example to compare those two and just another Australian guy and at light heavyweight you know we don't see

too many of them that have made an impact and Jimmy Crout man like that was my biggest takeaway yesterday at the media day was seeing him in person like he is huge for light heavyweight like I was like damn this guy he could he could

could be at heavyweight one day. Still very young, very talented guy. It's a big opportunity than him. And he's like taking really no nonsense kind of approach to this fight. And seems not offended by Anthony Smith kind of saying that he's fought, you know, I've probably fought 10 Jimmy Cruz in my career. I've had so much more experienced than him. But, you know, Jimmy seems a little bit more motivated because that chip on his shoulder,

I guess that's a good way to put it. And he understands this moment. So I think it could be a big deal, especially when you want to consider just that area that he is from, you know, being down there. And when we have champions like Volcanovsky and Adasania, if Jimmy Crew goes out there launches his way up the rankings, then you have another potential star in another division to where, you got this growing market with all these champions already.

Maybe this guy can fit in there. So for me, I'll go with the light heavyweights on this card. I refuse to believe that a man who got Peruvian necktied in a legitimate mixed martial arts contest is good. I just refuse. It's like getting open and say prude choked. Like you're bad when that happens. That's just it. It's funny. It's funny you mention that line,

it makes me even more fun. It's funny you mention that line, Jed, because that line was part of an epic all-time great pitch for a fight, a diamond in the rough fight for last week. You went with Alexander Robinoff versus Wanaspino, which was a fine fight. It was a lot of fun. That's not under. That's why it was an absolute banger. For like six minutes maybe.

It was an absolute banger. But it was a fun-ass six minutes. Until the trash in, that fight was awesome. It was dope. Yes. It came back to life around the halfway point. But listen, that was an all-time great pitch. What you got for us this week?

What's the needle in the haystack? What's the diamond in the rough for Saturday? The problem is there's this, it's a hard. hard. Like, this one is hard to see a dime in the rough because the prelims really are barren. Like, there's the early prelims have three fighters from China who have all competed in some organization called Wu Lin Fang, and I've not seen them fight at all. So it's tough for me to like confidently say, yeah, these are the bankers to go to. And like, the fight that jumps the most out to me is what will undeniably be awesome and probably we are.

and maybe something dumb will happen because Alex Olivaire has a lot of dumb things happen in this fights. Is Alex Oliver Randy Brown fight? Because both of those two dudes know how to get weird with it. And it's certainly going to be exciting. I just don't know if it's a low-key banger because it is the pre-lim main event. But I guess last week, Drake Riggs took the retirement fight of MMA legend Paul Daley as his low-key banker. So there are no rules to this one.

I'm going to take Randy Brown and Calvolo Alvara. But that was kind of the definition of a loki-banger. I'll give him that because nobody was talking about that fight. Nobody's talking about it. Nobody was talking about it because it was on the undercard of a Phil Davis fight. Like, of course. Still counts. Still counts.

That's a Loki means. Nobody's not getting talked about. Nobody's going to be sick. So watch that one, kids. All right. So obviously the diamond and the rough discussion was a heavy one last week. Everybody was talking about going back and forth. Drake, you seemed to win in hindsight because your fight was better overall.

It just was one of the best fights in the year so far. The diamond in the rough in your mind heading into Saturday. What's the one that everyone needs to watch and nobody's talking about? I'm going to go with the very first fight of the night. Surprise, surprise. The ladies did straw weight. Leong Na taken on Ariane Carnalosi, who if you've seen Carnalese, who, if you've seen Carnalosi or you remember Carnalosi from her UFC debut in 2019 against Angela Hill,

maybe the tankiest of the straw weights, even more tanky than, you know, Jessica Androj. This woman is built, just has us. She's just jacked, right? And she's coming back now taking on welcoming Leongnaut to the UFC, who is a very legitimate prospect that 24 years old out of China has had some fights in Wulain Fang, I believe, which Jet has not seen before. And you should go to your research man, some good action over this. there as, you know, Liangnaz coming from China and 15 and 4 record at 24 years old.

This girl has finished every single one of her fights, primarily, you know, a grappler and going against Carnalossi who just packs a lot of heat. And we saw in that Angela Hill fight that she got some off on Angela, but ultimately the movement and the speed was a little bit too much. And that fight ended by Dr. Stoppage. So who knows if she didn't get cut in that one, how much crazier it could have been. But in this fight, a little bit of a contrast in styles. If you want to look at some ridiculousness,

Liangna, it's 5-9 at strawweight, formerly a flyweight, dropping down, this is her third fight at straw weight, taking on Carnalosi, who is 5-2. So this is going to look like Jed's favorite thing, a circus act going on in there. It should be plenty of fun. Leong-na is very legit.

You know, it was supposed to be in the UFC sooner, but she turned it down because she felt like she wasn't ready. So now she's here. I expect, you know, to see some good things from her. And Carnalossi's back and probably eager to get in there after the break that she's had. can't go wrong with the straw weight division especially on a card

that has the title fight going on to that's a motivation. Jed, do you have something to say? No, I guess I'm not going to talk trash about women I've never seen fight, but like I think we all know, I will refute that he clearly won last week.

Degree of difficulty needs to factor in here. Like if you just do a regular dive into the pool versus me doing a triple backflip, one of those is way hard to pull off. And I was clearly much closer to success than failure with that. So I dispute that he wants to watch that fight. Cool.

It's going to be like 5 a.m. because this is another fight card with like 17 fights, and that's going to be hard to watch 12 hours of UFC. But sure, go with that if you want to. We all know that the actual banger, I'm going to take his cheap way of doing it. I'm going to pick the obvious low-hanging fruit because you reward that on this show, Mike.

You're bringing me down to his level. All right. Well, listen, with that being said, we have, we've gone a little bit over time here. But this is fun. I just realize it's flying by. I didn't realize it's 715 on the East Coast here. But listen, I'm not going to make this all dramatic. We're going to the knockout round. Jed's getting the point. We're all tied up. No one is surprised by this. If you've watched, give me the drum roll. Jet Michoud. Hey. All right. Can I get the dog in there? Hey, there's a puppy. Vote for me. Vote for me. All right. All right.

So for those of you who watch this show for 47 consecutive episodes, you knew this is going to happen. We're going to the knock around. It basically means like the first four questions are just fun to debate, but it doesn't matter what anybody says. It's because it all comes on to the last round because I will not award it. So each of these gentlemen are going to have one minutes to answer the mystery question. They have no idea what it is. Once that has been completed, we'll then turn it over to Casey Liden, our judge, jury and executive producer, he will render the final decision. And with that, Drake Riggs, you are the champion.

Okay, this is not a tricky question. You're both going to get the same question. So would you like to answer this question first? Or would you like to exercise the champion's prerogative and pass it on over to Jed Mishu? I'll pass it on to the challenger. All right. Jed Mishu. taking that underdog role, trying to reclaim that title.

Here's the question. Yes, Jedmishu. We talked about it for the last two questions. The UFC is back in front of a sold-out crowd on Saturday in Jacksonville, Florida. Three title fights, some low-key bangers. It's a big deal. But, Jedd Michoud tomorrow night, it's the return of the professional fighters league. The PFL is back for the first time since New Year's Eve,

So my question is, what do you need to see from the Professional Fighters League in the Year of Our Lord 2021 with the in-cage product after a very interesting offseason, free agent signings, what do they need to do to get back in the hunt to make things exciting in your opinion? We have one minute on the clock. What can the PFL do in 2021 to get back in the mix? Your time starts now. I think they're setting themselves up really well for this year, honestly, and I do not give praise to the PFL often. Like, they have made a couple of key acquisitions.

And even if these fighters, Anthony Pettis, et cetera, are a little past their prime, maybe, they are very recognizable names. They're going to be on ESPN. Like, people are just going to tune or scroll and see and, oh, okay, yeah, I'll watch that. That gives them a foundation to build on. The thing they have to do more than anything is be consistent this year. I know last year, COVID threw a lot of people for a loop, and honestly, you could probably give PFL a lot of credit for taking the correct safe answer, which was just not do anything. But that's backfired on them pretty hard because their fighters, semi-revolted, everybody's unhappy, and we all just lost them in the conscience for X amount of time. Now they're back. They need to be consistent.

They need to be on television because they got more to compete with it. With one on T&T, they need to be doing cards consistent. instantly and just deliver a good product because they do have a good product. All right. Yeah. In radio terms, Jed, you hit the post. You hit the post right at the zero mark. Right when the, right when the music ended, you came out.

So kudos to you. I know we're running low on time. I'm trying to be good about it. I appreciate that. All right, Drake, PFL back tomorrow night. First card since New Year's Eve 2019. What do you need to see from them for them to be back in the hunt? They had a lot of momentum coming out of the 2018 season.

2019, they lost a little gusto 2020. I think they did the best they could with what they had, especially at the free agent acquisitions. But what can they do with the in-cage product in 2020, 2021, excuse me, to make things very, very interesting in the current landscape of mixed martial arts? One minute on the clock, your time starts right now. I think that they just have to make kind of this format a lot more digestible or maybe understandable to some people.

because from an outside perspective, a casual viewer who's just seeing the PFL for the very first time, it can be a little bit confusing. Like, if you've seen UFC, let's say the UFC casual has seen it, they go into the PFO, like, what, there's points that aren't just a part of, like, judging and scoring. It's actually, you get points for your win and whatnot. Make it a little bit more understandable.

And on top of that, really sell your stars that you have. You got Anthony Pettis. Now you got Kayla Harrison still. You got Clarissa Shields, Rory McDonald, list goes on and on. And just makes sure. that they're in the forefront, get the recognizable names out there, assuming that they hopefully do well.

You got Anthony Pettus on this very first card. Really highlight this guy that you have him now while making everything understandable what's going on. And, you know, if you're going to sell your guys you already have, have done very well as well, like Lance Palmer, hopefully they put on exciting fights because, you know, Lance Palmer is not too good at that. Okay, there we go.

Drake Riggs, right near damn near hitting the post in his own right. So there you go. I wish you guys could see what my setup actually looks like right now. In my parents' empty house, it is ridiculous. Maybe I'll take a picture and send it on over. I am not happy about it. But as the votes start to toll in from the live studio audience, whether it's on Facebook, Twitter, or YouTube,

just a reminder, we got the great Jose Youngs, also in Jacksonville providing coverage. We'll have your way in show tomorrow, noon Eastern time, I believe, or am I wrong about that? We're going super early. That's right, because we're in Florida. I don't even know what time. Drake, you would know.

What time we'd go in? Nine? Yeah, it should be nine. 9 a.m. So we'll see you for the way and show at 9 a.m. Eastern Standard time until 11. And then, of course, we'll have your preview show. Saturday we'll have, obviously we get the PFL on Friday,

and then Saturday we'll have the pre-fight show, which I believe goes down. And we're going to do an extra 30 minutes. We're going to go an hour before the first fight. Then we'll watch the card. We'll have the post-fight interviews. We'll do the post-fight show. on to the next one on Sunday,

lots of stuff to get to. So I wasted enough time. It is time to turn it over to the man who makes the final decision, and I'm glad it's not me. After five rounds of action, we go to Casey Lydin's scorecard for the decision. Casey, who is the champion?

It was just a fabulous competition. But someone must win, someone must lose. All right. Okay. You're a winner. And new, Jedmishu! Oh, man. Wow.

Justice. Justice. Yes. All right, Casey, can you explain the ruling here? Because last week you had a ruling. You explained your decision. You kind of exercise with that decision for a few days. Why is Jed Mishu the champion and why are we going to get a trilogy fight?

I love rematches, and it was a bit of a makeup call. I'm just going to say it. I'll take them. I love makeup calls when they're my favorite. Collusion. We can have the trilogy. I'm very down for that. And frankly, you're lucky that I won because Jacksonville is not that far away for me.

And if you had robbed me twice in a row, we would have been having the trilogy in the parking lot of the Bistar Arena. Set it up, Triller. Set it up, Triller. Let's go. There you go. There you go. Maybe we can do some fight circus action. It's got to be something you guys could do. All right, Jed.

You're the winner. You can have a fight circus. It's okay. I know those people. All right, Jed. 30 seconds, my man. What do you got to say? two things one i am astonishing shock that we didn't talk about one championship not because i care about

one championship but because uh johnny line dancers did the damn thing last night and that was awesome so godlinaker keep throwing them hands baby uh and number two previous week i called out sean a shoddy obviously i got a trilogy match so i can't be can't be dealing with sean right now however if you like m mma if you like reading good writing sean dropped the article this week. It's called I was afraid to walk to the cage more than I ever was for any fight inside the early days of women in MMA. It is awesome. One of the best pieces written in at least a month or two. And I highly encourage all of you to check it out because it's really good. And it should make you think if you haven't thought about this kind of topic

already. Yes, it is a great piece. I will recommend that as well. Drake, any last words? I mean, you are going to be back next week. Hopefully, if you're scheduled lots of for the trilogy fight. And then I'll make a little, I'll put a little tease down for episode 50, but what do you want to say, Mr. Drake Riggs? It was a fine effort once again.

Yeah, it was fun, you guys. I'm hungry. I'm very hungry. I'm going to get some food after this. It was all worth it, though. You know, good friendly competition. Lost the title, but this is what champions are made. If you get to see me try and rebound

then another time in a trilogy fight. So, no, I just, Just stay tuned to SCMPMA for some coverage here at UFC 21, and of course, I'm fighting as well. But, yeah, just got this stuff going on here this week. So I don't know, I'm pretty exhausted. I can't plug very well right now. But thanks for having me again, you guys.

The champ's got to defend. Yeah, we took whatever energy levels he had left. But next week's episode 49, that's going to be fun, the trilogy fight, and then episode 50, we're going to mix things up in a big way. We got some cool things in the works for the 50th. episode and uh with a win for drake riggs he might find himself in the mix of that epic 50th episode but until then we're getting out of here for drake riggs for jed mishu for kasey on the ones and twos and the judging i am mike heck thank you for watching thank you for listening

enjoy the fights this week and we'll see you back here once again next week on between the links good night everybody the iconic voice of esterling takes you home this is esterlin you've been watching between the links. A MMA fighting show. I should have written this down.

My name is Estrada. Thanks for watching. Click this subscribe button. Happy birthday, Yakee. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.