MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Nate Diaz Speaks, Usman vs. Burns, UFC Vegas 18 Fallout, Bellator News

Episode Date: February 12, 2021

Mike Heck hosts the BTL championship match between longtime MMA journalist Josh Gross and MMA Fighting's Steven Marrocco as they react to Nate Diaz's recent interview, Alexander Volkov and Cory Sandhagen's big wins at UFC Vegas 18, discuss UFC 258 and the welterweight title fight between Kamaru Usman and Gilbert Burns, Bellator dropping some big news, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Steven Marrocco: @MMAFightingSM Follow Josh Gross: @yay_yee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA Fighting Studios. Between the links. Now, your host, my... All right, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn has arrived, and that welcomes you to a brand new live edition between the links here on MNap Fighting.com. You never know what you're going to get with these live streams.

But I am, as Esther said, Mike Hack. Thank you for checking out the show this week. Lots to discuss. And for all of you watching live with us right now, feel free to chime in with your thoughts on these questions, how you score these rounds as they happen. And, you know, the best comments, so to speak, you will see them on the screen before you right here.

And with that out of the way, we're just going to get right into this thing. Let us introduce the combatants. It is a rematch from last week's program. First, let us introduce now the Challenger. He lost the coveted BTL title in a close battle last week. introducing once again the deputy editor for MMAFighting.com. Mr. Stephen Maraca, welcome back, sir.

Thank you for having me. I think pronunciation was my downfall for last week, but I have a phonetic guide in front of me, and I'm ready to take on the current champ. There you go, and that current champion makes his first official title defense right here, right now, the longtime MMA journalist, the editor at large over at Sherdog.

Josh Gross back on the show. How are you, champ? I'm doing very well, Mike. How are you? And Stephen, I think before we even start this thing, Stephen has to pronounce Corey Anderson's opponent's name right now on the spot. Anderson's opponent's name, Stephen. His name is Daniel. Daniel is his name. Correct. I'm on my back, Stephen, I'm here with you once again to do this, so looking forward to it.

Well, it's good to have both of you gentlemen here. once again. Let us get right into this thing because last week on this show, we talked about where he might stand in this lightweight puzzle. And on Tuesday morning, we heard from the man himself, Nathan Diaz, as he spoke with ESPN's Ariel Hawani for around 40 or so minutes. He had a lot to say about the UFC 257 fight between Dustin Porre and Connor McGregor. He talked about how he laid out the blueprint on how to beat Connor McGregor, the two fighters in the lightweight division that he wants to fight, not in the light. lightweight division and a whole lot more.

He talked about a whole bunch of different things. Before we start breaking down some of the nitty-gritty in more detail, right off the bat, Josh, I want to start with you this week. What was your overall reaction from Nate's first interview in quite some time? Well, once again, I'm coming prepared. I didn't watch the interview, but I saw a lot of reports. And I appreciate that Nate Diaz likes to do the interviews with Ariel Hilwani and spends 40 minutes chatting with him.

You know, it sounded to me like Nate was talking about fighting at 170 and wanting an opponent who was winning and looking good. And, you know, all of that was stuff that he said previously. I don't mean to, like, disrespect him or the interview he did with Ariel by not watching it. But, you know, I tend to see how people talk about these interviews. And I really sort of focus on that. I saw a lot of people picking up on not, you know, the idea that Nate's calling these guys out at 170 and, you know, whether there's traction there. Charles Oliver is already saying no You know

Dustin 40 is like hey that's cool But it seems like 155 is where he's at Nate's kind of interesting to me if like if I get a sense of what he said And knowing the position he's in And understanding that the UFC is now talking about doing Welterweight on the ultimate fighter But probably not including Nate Diaz Like who's he going to fight at 170

So he's out here putting his name out He wanting to do this he wants to be back He wants to fight all that stuff he's kind of said But who? And that's the toughest thing There's not a lot of matches for him. That's the one thing about his position right now that I'm kind of garnering from the reaction that I'm getting from people.

What did you think of it, Stephen? I mean, whether you watch it or just read different pieces about it, understandable either way, what did you think of Nate's return to speaking, I guess? Well, I found it hard to follow at times. And I don't think I'm the only one. Sometimes it's kind of hard to follow

where he's going with things. and hard to follow his logic. I did not make it all the way through because of previously scheduled duties, but I disagree that there's no fights for him. I think there's plenty of fights for him. I think that's what the UFC has been trying to do is get him to take a fight for a long time.

I think if it's just about opponents, that's clearly not from the way it's gone thus far the only requirement to get a fight with Nate Diaz. There's a nexus between competition, competition and what he finds interesting. And we had some conversations last week about what exactly interests him, whether that's competition or money. I think it's both.

I think it's a concept that he has about certain fighters that he has more respect for because perhaps the style that they bring to the octagon. But it's also about fan interest, things that'll get the fans going. and, you know, ideally help his brand and help his bottom line. I don't know his contract, so I don't know if he directly benefits from, you know,

more buys or not. But Nate Diaz says a lot of stuff, and he said a lot of stuff. It has not translated always to actionable moves. I don't know what exactly the purpose of it was other than to basically say, hey, I'm here, I'm ready to go. I think there are some matchups that are interesting to me, both of which are on my terms, meaning that they're at 155 pounds and they've already been turned down in the way that he wants

them. That's going to be the way it's going to be, you know, if you have fighters who are thinking more from a competitive standpoint and say, look, you know, we're lightweights, you know, we want to get the title. but really it's just a matter of him making a decision and you know coming coming to a meeting of the minds with the UFC because he gets offered a lot of opponents and he doesn't take them for whatever reason why are you laughing at me why are you laughing at this goes I'm just stretching my next to you and don't worry about it keep going come on I'm just saying that he's a He's a tough got to pin down. And nothing about that changed after that interview.

All right. Yeah. So kind of going back. Yes. I mean, kind of going back to all that, Stephen, Nate,

you know, when Nate does these interviews, like you said, I think some of the reaction is just like he's all over the place. But in a weird kind of shrewd way, he always plants these seeds. Like, and they're kind of brilliant when you really think about him.

This time around, I'm not really sure. Like he calls out Dustin, which isn't really a surprising development. Then he calls out Charles Olivera, which I thought was a pretty surprising development. But the big caveat, like we mentioned, he's down at 55, he wants these fights at 65 or 70. So did Nate Whiff here? Did he miss? Do you think so?

Just considering what's realistic and what's not? Like, how likely do either of these fights happen? I just, look, I have to say, I couldn't get over the fact that he kept saying I've never been finished. Does he not remember Josh Thompson? Like, he got finished with a head kick. You know, it was a legitimate finish. And he has his tendency to just say, you know, nobody's around and nobody's available and nobody's good. And I get that to a certain extent.

You know, like I said, it's not just about competition. It's about whom he deems relevant and whom he deems worthy. And that, I think, changes from moment to moment. Changes in terms of the way he's approached in terms of the buzz that is getting from the fans. And so I don't know if he whiffed it so much is that he didn't make it any more clear than what we can all discern from looking at the landscape. The good news is that he's in the conversation regardless. He still gets called out because fighting and beating Nate Diaz is a sure way to elevate your brand and to elevate your earning power. Josh, we saw a couple tweets in Poria and Tuesday.

and he said, you know, fighting near my natural weight class? Sure, that sounds like a good idea. But like you said, Charles Olivera goes on Twitter earlier today, and he says, status, no interest, homie, goal is the lightweight title. Did Charles Olivera make a mistake? Because we talked about it on the show last week, him not fighting Michael Chandler, while we agree was not a terrible decision

taking those fights on short notice when you're so close to the belt. Oftentimes the UFC likes to punish these guys. Olivera may sort of get back to the bottom of the pile, so to speak. a fight with Nate Diaz at 170? It doesn't seem like a terrible idea to me. What did you think of Olivera just shutting that down? I think he knows what he wants. He wants the lightweight championship,

and you're not going to get it fighting Nate Diaz at 170. I think Dana White came out and said that he was totally fine with Olivera's decision, like totally understandable. You want a full camp, I get it. And, you know, it's interesting to hear Dana say that. And I do feel like, like I said in my first comment, like in a way Nate put himself in a box here, right? Because there's not a lot of names you can put on a poster with Nate Diaz that makes sense.

And yes, he can conjure these fights and he can sort of make him out of the blue. But like you said, he didn't really do that this time. So, you know, what did he do? I think he expressed that he wants to fight name opponents. They're like on a good run. He doesn't want to fight a name, a guy who's lost a couple of fights here or there. He's pretty dismissive of Connor McGregor, if I understand. And privately, and like speaking with his team,

team he's that way. It's not like he's saying this publicly to spike Conner or anything. He's just not interested in that because he doesn't think that that's the most competitive fight. And there is this psyche. And again, I talked about it last week with Nate and Nick and sort of that clan, that they have this mindset and this code that matters to them. And that's a big piece of the roadmap to their decision making. And I think we're seeing it unfold here. And sometimes for us, normal people, we don't understand it. We don't see where they're going. They think they know where they are before they get there and they have their path. And you know what? A lot of times, it's worked out for them. So who's he going to fight at 170? George Mossved all makes sense,

right? I don't know if there's any truth to the idea that Mossadol may go with Covington on the ultimate fighter. There's not a lot of names there that makes sense for him. And there's not a lot of welter weights that actually match up well with him because he doesn't want to fight the guys at 55 who could wrestle and grapple, right? We saw that. We know what happens. There's going to be no different if he does that at 170, I think. I mean, I think. So, the types of opponents he can have, the stylistic kind of fight, and sort of that name recognition, that B side, because Nate is an A side, 100%. He gets pay-per-view. He can carry pay-per-views for the UFC. He does business for them. That B-side is really important with him, though. And so 170, it does seem like you have to pick and choose real lightly. Maybe a winner of a fight that's coming up, we can make some sense and do it. But right now, it does feel like a muddle landscape for Nate. What do you think, Steve? Because like we said, Olivera might have. have gotten himself in trouble. Dana can say whatever he wants.

And let's be honest, 90% of what Dana says isn't actually true. Like, I mean, he's contradicted himself so many times over the years. I don't personally blame Olivera for any of this. Oliver is saying no to Chandler. I have no problem with it. When you have a guy like Nate calling you out, I actually thought he did Olivera favor here. Like, I understand he wants to fight for the title. And it's risky, but it seems like this is a fight that Oliver could do very, very well with.

Should he have just jumped on this and then entered the 55-fif? fray after that because something tells you there's going to be time to jump right back into that conversation there's a lot of unknowns do you introduce to the to the equation by taking a fight at 170 against a guy that's not in your division that may be popular and may elevate your brand but there's just a lot of different ways this thing can go sideways you could get injured in training camp and blow your knee out and spend a year on the sidelines you know there's you know there somebody else could come up and get that opportunity from me. There's quite obviously a lot of people chomping at the bit to get that, to get to the top at 155. So I completely understand Bolivara's

rationale. He's obviously more interested in the competition of things than just going off and, you know, making some cash and getting a lot of eyeballs. And I respect that. And not only do I respect that, but I respect Dana's comment that he's not going to go to the back of the line, because he turned down a short notice fight. I appreciated that distinction that he said, he just turned out a short notice fight, not the actual fight. And we're not going to hold that against him.

Now, that being said, this is a fluid situation. So, yeah, no, I think that Olivera has paid his dues and then some. And I think he deserves an opportunity, if not in his next fight, than the fight before. or anything that's going to get in the way of that, I think, is counterproductive. Stephen, based on this information that we have here on what he said, everything in play, and I think Josh makes some great points.

He fights at 170. Who's he going to fight? I mean, there's Mazadol. And listen, I understand that some fans are upset about the finish of that fight. Mazadol beat him up, start to finish. This is a one-sided fight. So when that was being rumored, I didn't think there were a lot of people overly excited to see it again. Sure, some casual fans are excited about it.

I mean, if you look at the other guys like Josh Minut, you got Mazadol, you got, I mean, you got Colby, other guys. I mean, not a lot probably interests him at 170 at this point. So if you were a betting man, would you bet more on the fact that he's going to fight one, two, or he says he might even fight four times in 2021 or he doesn't fight it all in 2021? He will not fight four times in 2021. He will not fight four times in 2020. It's just, it's just not going to fight it all, though. Will he fight it all, though? I don't know.

Like I don't speak Nate Diaz like Josh does. Yeah, I would say he's going to fight. Who I like the Mazfadal reboot. That's an easily sellable rematch. And after the break that both guys have had, it sort of puts them back, you know, in the minds of fans and gets fans excited about them again. so I think that's a totally decent thing.

I wouldn't mind the Conner trilogy, although it doesn't seem like they're going that direction. And I wouldn't mind seeing Dustin at 170 either. If I were to bet which one, I'd say it would be between Massvedal and McGregor, but I don't know. Josh, you seem confident that Nate may fight. I don't know if it's just the nodding

or you were just agreeing with Steve. But do you think he fights in 2021 with everything we've learned here? I think he definitely fights in 2021. I mean, he wants to fight by the spring sometime in the spring is my understanding. But I think he'll definitely compete this year. Four times seems like no way. Who competes four times unless you're, you know, someone who's just really doesn't know,

nobody knows you and you just get the opportunity to fight four times and you're winning and you get a lot of opportunities. We see like a Kevin Holland or, you know, sort of these crazy streaks. That's not what Nate Diaz is in his career. I don't know who he fights at 170. I mean, you know, Moss would all find. They have that thing. And it's that, you know, there's some feel like there, some people feel like maybe

there needs to be a continuation there. I'm just looking at the names. There's not a lot of interesting names that jump out to me. You're not going to match him with like a Vicente Lucke, right? It's like you're not going to put him in there with a Jeff Neal type. Stephen Thompson, Wonderboy Fivers, Nate Diaz. Is that interest to anybody? You know, you're going to need something like that.

I don't know where he goes. If 155 is done and he's sick of making weight and doesn't want to do it, he's got to deal with with fighting in a way class that's maybe not as deep for him not as compelling for him but you know his star power still matters so it'll work here and there they'll figure something out but i think i think nat'll surely fight man he's making noise about he's doing interviews about it he's going to fight in 2021 and i think pretty soon if you really want to prod at colby covington if you're hoary mazadol you push for this daz fight and if it books in covington doesn't get that fight oh man that guy man's

to go on a rampage. But listen, what we've learned is no matter what he says, it drums up a lot of interest. And that's what creates a star. Nate Diaz is a star. Whether he wins, loses, he just gets it. And we'll see what happens with this situation. But we will move ahead. The point for round one goes to the champ. Josh Gross on the board. Thank you. Steve, that early has this time. You got round one last time. I get round one this time. Let's see what happens. It's a bad call. It's rigged. That's annoying. What?

You're a muffler. You don't hear it? Oh, I don't even notice it. I usually drown it out with the radio. How's this? Oh, yeah. Way better. Save on insurance by switching to Bel Air Direct

and use the money to fix your car. Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified. Conditions apply. Stephen, you know this for sure. You're two and O when you lose the first question. Okay. That's good to know. I didn't know that.

There you go. You're two and O when you lose the first question. As we head to the second question, UFC Vegas 18. It's officially in the books. We saw some big time performances in the main and co-main events. We're going to start at the main event and then dive in a little deep with the co-main. Steve, we're going to begin with you.

Alexander Volkov absolutely runs through Alasarovarie. Had him in some big trouble early, continued on into the second round, and Jason Herzog stopped it at the perfect time. It's a massive win for Drago. He looked sensational. What did you think of his performance, Stephen? Do we have a new major player in the heavyweight division? Possibly.

I tend to feel the way about Volkov that I do just a little bit about Stefan Struv. And let me explain myself. When Volkov is using his natural gifts to their fullest extent, he's a real tough, tough out for a lot of people. I also think he fought a guy who is on the tail end of. of his career. I don't think that Overeem, I mean, I think it's quite obvious that Overeem can't withstand

the level of damage that he was before. And the game plan that he had to mitigate that wasn't good enough and wasn't enough to overcome his sort of natural deficit at this point. Volkov

has some really good weapons. He's really good. If he keeps you at distance and he works from the outside, picks his shots, is very talented. If he does that, then we have a player.

But I also think about a guy who has a lot of wear and tear. I see some speed issues if he's going to get to the higher levels of the division. And, you know, he's not, to me, terribly athletic.

when I look when I look at him versus some of the other top heavyweights out there and then combined with you know his overall skill set versus those you know that of a nagano or meochic you know I'm I'm not sure he's going to be able to do to to get out of those successful unless unless he does what he does really well and keeps the guys at distance, uses his range, uses footwork, you know, kicks them to death and, uh, and gets a decision. So, um, you know, I could be proven wrong. Um, you know, depending on what, what he does in these, uh, in his next fight, whether he fights the winner of, uh, Gagne-Rosenstruck or, uh, you know, somebody else. But, um, I tend to think of him as somebody who's going to struggle

against the top, the top, top guys. What did you think, Josh? Because one thing I kept seeing was, you know, Volkov looked good. He's a huge guy, but Overeem wasn't all there. He didn't seem at all ready for the fight. And it's not quite to the level of what we saw with like Poria McGregor, but it does seem in some circles that Volkov isn't necessarily getting the love he deserves for this victory.

What are your thoughts on this and his performance overall? Yeah, I certainly doubted him coming in. I would pick Overeem on this show, I said, I thought Overeign would continue forward in his career and make that run. Clearly didn't happen. And I credit Volkov for that less, you know, sort of an indictment of Alistair Overim at this point. He's an older fighter.

And we know that the drop-off from looking competent and being a threat to falling off the cliff is just a little slip, just a little slip. And, you know, that may have been a factor here. But even if not, Volkov was able to use his strengths. I think Stephen pointed out well, right? So he's a long fighter when he can jab and keep it really tight, throw the long one, two. It works in his favor. And it certainly did against Overeem.

Overeign was busted up pretty early, didn't show up, had a difficult time regrouping. And there was no threat of a takedown, right? So stylistically with Volkov, I think one of the reasons that I have doubted him. And look, I was doing the noob thing, right? I was like, he's a Bellator champ. He must stink. Like he's not that good, really. He's kind of been up and down the UFC.

I haven't seen enough of him. I thought Alistair had enough to get by. He didn't. But there are much tougher tests. I think we know that in the heavyweight division. I love the idea. I think Joseph, the commenter, brought it up earlier a couple minutes ago, saying, I want to see him fight the Sierra Gagne winner against Rosenstrike.

That's a fantastic step up for Volkov, a real, I think, a fight that puts him in front and center for fans. This is a heavyweight contender if he wins this fight. Stylistically, also very attractive. He's not like he were asking him to fight Curtis Blades. That's bad. But the reality is that he's going to have to deal with fighters like Blades, you would think. He's going to have to deal with that before we talk about him as a legitimate heavyweight championship contender in the UFC.

And so there are still questions out on him. But this was a massive victory for him, a big step forward and now puts him in a position to fight in a bout the people can legitimately say, you know, this is for the number one contendership in the heavyweight division. There is some space at the top. We know the championship fights coming. and we know John Jones is right there. There's no rush. So give him that chance to get that next fight and prove it.

He may do it. I'm with Steve, and I still have my doubts on the guy. Yeah. I mean, I actually thought the Blades fight, he lost that one, and it was pretty convincing. But he showed, I mean, even in the fourth round, he took Curtis Blades down late in that fight, which I thought was pretty interesting.

And he knew he needed to put on some size. He definitely did. He's not weighing 247 on the scale anymore. He's weighing 265 on the scale. And you saw it in the Walt Harris fight. saw him in the Alasdor Overeem fight, so he's definitely coming along. I do want to touch briefly on Alistair Overeem, Josh, because we talked about this the last couple of weeks.

Win or lose, we all think he's going to keep going. He did come out and make a statement after. It doesn't seem like he's going anywhere. But after watching that performance, has your stance changed on that? Do you think he does come back? I'm going to respect Alistair and listen to what he says and say, yes, he's going to do what he says.

You know, we get into trouble sometimes, but the conversations need to be had, you know, should, should you come back? You know, is what's the cost benefit here? What are we talking about? But again, this is someone who's done his entire adult life. This is his profession. He's an expert at this. He understands his body. And he's making his own choices. I think we've seen the last of Alistair as a heavyweight contender in the UFC. I think the idea that somehow he's going to end his career as a UFC heavyweight champion that is passed. but again, you know, like saying something and then actually going out and doing it sometimes are different things. And if he feels like he's got that left in him, you know, still very early from the Volkov fight, you give him two weeks to think about it. He's a pretty smart guy, cerebral guy. He'll go through the things. He'll talk to people around him. I think this comes down to him not wanting to go out this way. And so he's going to give himself one more chance to fight. And if it ends up badly for him, he's done. And if he wins, he'll continue. To me, that's the way that he thinks. And I imagine that's really what's happening with him at this moment.

What do you think, Steve? And I mean, you have kind of talked about guys getting knocked out and having careers and, you know, what has happened since then. And Alastair Overeem has been knocked out many times in his career. But the guy still has his wits about him. He still wants to get in there and fight and that's great. And I think I agree with Josh when he says he's not a heavyweight tender anymore. So I think if they want to do like fun fights for him, like if Derek Lewis,

loses to Curtis Blades. I think that's a fun fight, but no more prospects. No more Augustus Akais. No more guys like that who are on these surges. No Alexander Romanoffs. Like, we don't want to see guys like that. We're going to see like fun fights, like legend kind of fights. But what do you think? Do you think we see him again?

Unfortunately, yes. I mean, this is combat sports. People generally stick around too long. He has been knocked out 15 times in his career. He has been knocked out six times, no, five times in the last five years. And these were not, you know, these were brutal knockouts.

He might as his wits about him now. But that's not what this is about. This is about his life 10 years, 20 years down the road. And I can't presume to know what's going to happen, you know, then. He might not have any ill effects. He might. We just don't know. if he is going to come back,

my personal feeling is that, you know, it should be, like you said, fun fights. He'd be a perfect candidate for, like, you know,

Bellator Circa, 2014, 2015, 2015, 2016, like put him against another with a name, let him do his thing,

go out on a big, uh, victory. Um, and then call it a career. Sadly, I don't think that's what's going to happen. I mean, I would hope that he would do one more run and the next big setback would be his last.

But yeah, what does he have left to prove? He's won three. He won the Dream Belt. He won the Strike Force Belt. He won the K-1 Grand Prix. And those are all amazing accomplishments. He will be, he will go down in history as a legend of the sport in the heavyweight division. vision in particular.

So I hope that he keeps that in mind when he decides his next move. All right. So I do want to discuss the co-main event because good God almighty, Corey Sanhagan, knocked out Frankie Edgar, just an incredible flying knee. It was a scary situation. And as bad as we all felt for Frankie Edgar, what a moment it was for Corey Sanhagen, does it under 30 seconds. But it begs the big question coming out of that event, Josh Gross.

where does Sanhagen now fit in this championship conversation? Does he become the biggest Peoria Jan fan on planet Earth considering what happened against Al Jemaine Sterling over the summer, or does it not matter either way? Yeah, I'm not sure that it matters because if Al Jemaine wins that fight, I mean, is there an obvious next contender that's not Sanhagen? You know, I think that division is exciting and intriguing as it is. It's kind of also a mess.

I don't know. The only other fight that you could say that Corey Sanhagen should take is maybe Rob Font. And, you know, I'm not sure that that fight makes the most sense. So, yeah, it seems like he's next in line here. He's going to have to answer for a lot for the Al Jemaine Sterling fight. And if Sterling wins that fight, it's certainly not going to be the easiest first title defense to market or sell. But considering the way that he's looked, the Marlon Marius victory was. was incredible and beautiful.

And this one, too, those kinds of performances, you can't just, like, dismiss. They're worth a lot. They're not just regular wins. And so, yeah, if he gets a title fight next, whether it's Yon or Sterling, I think that makes sense. He's probably rooting for Peter Yon, much more interesting fight, I think, for a lot of people. And if he's going to fight Al Jamein next, you know, maybe he wants to do it as champion. I'm sure he'll want it either way.

But, you know, he's, man, he's. man, he styles on people. I mean, the Marius victory, and then following up the way he did to what he did to Frankie Edgar, that's incredible stuff. And you don't see a lot of fighters in the course of their careers

pulling off back-to-back victories like that. So he's kind of right there and you can't deny him as far as the next number one. All right. What do you think, Steve? Because for a long-time fans of this sport, and I think both of you can respect this, we understand that the word deserves is kind of an evil word in our circles.

We have, I mean, we have the T. Dillishaw factor trying to weigh if it's fair to give him a title shot after, you know, the USADA suspension and being stripped of the title. Josh is throwing the big bad X. I mean, what I thought was interesting. When does it make a difference? What I thought was interesting about, if you haven't seen it yet,

Corey Sanaghan spoke to our own David Martin. He wants to fight T.J. Dillishaw for the sole purpose to make sure that Dillishaw doesn't skip the line. So what do you think happens here? Like, do you think Sanahen gets a next title shot or you think he's going to have to fight TJ to get it. It could very well happen that way. What were you saying?

I was saying that's awesome that. Corey San Diego is a madman. That's, that's, I love that. I couldn't agree more. And it speaks to his intelligence about the way things really work in the sport. He doesn't have the same name value as a Dillishaw or a Garbrandt. And no matter how impressive he is, when the rubber meets the road and they're deciding who they want to go with next

impact reach audience whether through social metrics or otherwise those things do matter probably more than we'd like them to at points so whoever wins aljermain or yam i would I would think that a fight between Dillishaw and Sanhagen would make sense. I don't think it's necessarily correct. I don't think it's the right message to send, first of all, after a guy that's coming off a two-year suspension for EPO. But the sport being what it is and the way that the promotion tends to operate, it's something that I get.

And I think that Sanhagen would definitely, solidify himself as the rightful contender if he chose to do that. That being said, he deserves it on his own, and he should be the next title contender. But yeah, if he goes and fights Dillashah, then there are no more arguments. We have one more quick hit on this event, but I am curious to ask both of you this question.

This is nothing to do with the scoring, because both of you've watched lots and lots of fights over the years. And I think comparing these two, we know which one had more of an impact. It's clearly going to be the latter. But Stephen, let me ask you, which flying knee was more impressive in your mind? Sanhagans or Jorge Mazadols over Ben Ascran.

Impressive in different ways. I mean, it took five seconds for the Mazfidol one. So I think you got to give it to that. Although impressive, the fact that it was merely a time thing is counteracted by the fact that there was almost four, I mean, not even almost, there was foreknowledge of this. He was planning for this. He knew Ascran was going to shoot.

So do you give him credit for being somewhat clairvoyant or do you give Sanhagen credit for strategically playing Edgar into his hand by drawing him in to that flying that flying that flying knee. It took a little bit longer, but I think there's a strong argument for the latter, because Frankie Edgar is not an easy guy to hit. He did get dropped a lot in his early career. It was kind of a thing.

He would get dropped early, and then he would fight his way back. It's really hard to finish him, though. He has a lot of, he moves really fast, He's got great speed. He gets in and out. And he's hard to put away. And the fact that he is getting put away later, you know, at this point, I think speaks more to just the fact that he's been in the game for so long.

He's got a lot of miles on his body. And he might be, you know, coming toward the tail end of his career. But as I'm thinking about this, I would say there's probably a stronger way, a stronger argument for Sanhagen. given Frankie Edgar's reputation relative to Ben Ascran. I don't think anybody was under any illusion that Ben Ascran was going to shoot on Masvedal. So the fact that he did was not a huge surprise. And you can say that, okay, well, he basically played the odds and the odds were in his favor. But the odds of knocking Frankie out with a flying knee, not high, I would venture to say.

So I'm going to go with Sinek. What do you think, Josh? Because listen, both these knockouts are amazing. Both these flying knees are unbelievable. There'll be on highlight real videos forever and ever. It's like if you won a million dollars in the lottery two different times, it's like saying like which day was better. Like I want it on a Thursday or I want it on a Saturday.

They're both awesome in their own ways. Just one happened in a different way than the other. Which one was like more impressive to you? Was it the Sannhagen flying knee or the Mazadol flying? knee. Yeah, it's a good question. I'm going to just say, first of all, like, the flying knee knockouts that we've seen in mixed martial arts that we immediately start remembering, they're all incredible in their own ways. And it's super hard for me to judge one over another. This was like a conversation on Twitter in the wake of the San Hagan knockout. To me, the obvious answer is George Mossvedal.

There's absolutely no question that it's George Mossfidol. When people think of Ben Asperin, that knockout is probably the first thing they think of. When they think of George Mosswoodall, for a lot of people, that's the first thing they're going to think of. And there's a lot of people who have that thought and remember it and that turned into a meme and it was like circulated in the zeitgeist. That moment in time, five seconds, doing it, planning it out.

I give him all the credit in the world for planning it out and forcing it and not improvising it as gorgeous and as artistic as San Higgins was. To plan for it, see it, execute it, and then for the world to talk about it, there's no question that the Mosphidal's knockout is the one that stands out to me. And there's nothing to diminish San Diego. It was incredible.

But no one is going to remember this in the catalog of Frankie Edgar's career. Okay. Like Frankie Edgar accomplished so much and did so much. And maybe this gets brought up at the end as a footnote. Man, he got knocked out bad by San Diego. But it's absolutely not the first thing they're talking about and not the 10th thing they're talking about. But Ben Ascran, it's probably either this or the Jake Paul fight or like the top two things that they're going to talk about with Ben Astros' career.

And I'm guessing it's this Mossfid all knockout. So for me, that's it. All right. One last thing on this event. We had some great performances on Saturday, some good scraps. Real quick, Josh, who is your, I don't know, 10th Player Award winner from UFC Vegas 18? Like the unsung hero of the card? I'm going to have to look at the card.

But I'll tell you what. I have no problem saying that whatsoever. You know, can I give two? And it's not even a tenth player. It's like 1A1B. The Daryush for our fight was so good, man. That was just an awesome display. Delivered on everything that we wanted to deliver.

And Darius, that was resounding performance. And the way that they conducted themselves during the fight after the fight, everything about that was the best of mixed martial arts. And to me, that that's the one thing that stood out above all else in this card outside of the San Hagan knockout. and I really give credit to both those guys. That's a good answer right there. Stephen, what's the you?

I'm going to go Pantoja. You know, Mino Cape came in. That classic thing that grizzled MMA fans like us love, you know, an outside champion coming in to see how he does in the UFC. And Pantoja showed him no respect and took. basically ran away with a ball. Just outworked him. Manel banked a little bit too much

on getting that one, that quick hit. And before you know it, he was way down on the scorecards. And I think, you know, further and further removed from comfortability. And in the end, lost a decision. So, you know, props to Pantoja for taking a heavily hyped guy

and showing the world that, he's still got some development to do. Beating him on the feet, too, which is super impressive. I just thought, I thought he just, he studied Minnell Cape so well. He knew Minnell Cape was a tremendous trap center. It didn't fall for any of them. He did a great job, staying patient and just stick it with his game and not getting lured into a firefight, which is really impressive.

So I like both those answers. But what is next for the UFC is their second pay-per-view event of the Saturday in Las Vegas. That is what we'll be discussing next. but the point for round two goes to drum roll do we have a drum roll hey oh he's going to steven morocco good god there you go a point for morocco one to one what a tremendous battle i love it no fanfare no celebratory music there it is i don't need it don't need it don't want it don't need it don't need the validation Okay. All right. Well, we got UFC 258 coming up on Saturday. And the Walterway title is on the line in the main events between Kamar Usman and Gilbert Burns. Former teammates, pretty interesting matchup for sure. But I don't know, Josh Gross. As much as my fan hat goes on when it comes to this matchup, I want to see how it goes down, the chess match, all that stuff. I don't know, man. Doesn't seem to be a lot of buzz this week. Is it just me or you sort of experiencing this yourself?

I asked the question on Twitter, you know, what's your interest in this fight? And I made it specifically not about UFC 258, but about this fight. It was, you got across the spectrum wide range response. There's people who are straight up to about zero. I couldn't care less. And there were people who were super amped for this fight. And I think that's sort of Kamar Usman's polarization realized. You know, some people watch him and respect his competitiveness.

and his tenacious way of fighting and the way that he grinds on people and respect it and say he shuts down great fighters. And you know what? He gets some good finishes too. I'm certainly in that group of people who respect what he does in the cage. And then you have people who are just bored to tears. And the fact of the matter is this card is super expensive, 70 bucks. And it's the second $70 car of the year. The first one, hey, we had to buy it was Connor McGregor. People are asking themselves, after that first experience, you know,

at the undercard, the main event may or may not tickly. There's a lot of people who probably are not going to pay for this event, I think. I think it's a real difficult thing for people to decide. You know, I got a bunch of responses saying, no, this is not, this is too much for me. I can't do it right now. So I am feeling disconcern about this fight. You know, I think the fans are feeling like, ah, this is a great fight. I know that Gilbert Burns and Kamara Usman is probably going to be a fight I need to watch,

but I don't know if I'm going to get myself to watch it. I'm not sure we're going to hear Dana White saying this fight's trending to break records. And so there is a confused audience. They're not quite sure what to do this Saturday night, Mike. I'm not sure how they're going to respond to it. But Kamar Usman, he's a polarizing figure in the cage, the way he fights. Some people hate it. Some people really respect it.

But he's earned his reputation. And we're going to see whether they're going to want to tune in. for what I think will be a highly competitive, entertaining fight. But the rest of the card, it doesn't measure up to a pay-per-view. I said it last week, and it's more so this week.

We lost Pedro Munoz against Jimmy Rivera. So I think it's a tough sell. Steve, what say you? Is this main event giving fans from your social circle that oomph you would expect for a title fight like this in a division like this? My social circle? I write about M&A all day.

Like, oh, social media circle. Okay. Well, if we're talking about my friends, my folks are not tweeting or texting me about this fight. They're not saying, hey, is Kamar Usman fighting on Saturday? That is one highly imperfect gauge of the general interest level in a pay-per-view fight.

No, it's not there. it's not unlike you know, Camaro is not unlike George St. Pierre in his heyday a guy who was dominant but not altogether exciting at times

effective but not exciting and I think with Camaro the thing with him is when he pops is when you give him somebody to play off of him and Colby Covington was the perfect example of that because you have the Maga gimmick and all the heat that he built up,

built up before that fight, doing his stick, calling out the champ, you know, being the general nuisance that he was. And then you have Mazfidal, who's coming off that insane knockout, BMF. It makes sense. That's what gets fans excited. It's the personalities. It's the star. It's a star-driven sport.

And Kamaro is not that guy. He's a competitor. He's a fierce competitor. He's amazingly talented. He's 17-1 as a professional. And he makes a lot of really good fighters look very average. But this is a star-driven sport. It's the reason why Jose Canseco and Britton Hart and Paige Van Zan,

trounced traffic for UFC Vegas 18. It wasn't even close. So this sport is about, you know, stars and storylines and personalities. And these guys are former teammates who don't necessarily dislike each other, who respect each other, who plan to give it, they're all in the cage. and that's just not really a recipe for a blockbuster. Combine that with the fact that you look at the preliminary card and there's just, you know, it is a tough sell.

And, you know, pre-COVID times, you could make the argument that you throw in your five bucks or your ten bucks and it's not that bad of a deal. But now I think people are watching a lot differently than what they were. And like Josh said, with a $70 price tag, yeah, I think this is not going to be one that breaks the bank, so to speak. All right. So some things have just happened while this conversation has been going down.

And it kind of brings up a question that a buddy of mine texted me and then I'll reveal what is going on. He watches the sport all the time. And it goes along something like that I've said for the last five or six months. his text was, what do you think of the title fight? And then the second question was, is Walter Waite a bad division? Now, I understand this question in a way, not from a talent standpoint, because there's a lot of it, but just like look at the top of the division. There's some studs, there's some draws, some really good fighters.

But even with all of this talent, Walterweight has not given us much since July when Usman beat Mazadol, and that didn't leave a great taste in people as mods. We got Covington Woodley, then we got Wonderboy Jeff Neal, we got Kiesza versus Magny. and now we just found out that Hamzaat Shamaia versus Leon Edwards is off the March 13th card. So that was a big, well-to-way fight to kind of get this thing going. ESPN is reporting this. Dana White told ESPN that the fight is off. Still COVID stuff for Shama if he hasn't been able to recover.

So I guess my question with all this in here, Stephen, is although this fight is not getting that, oh my God, we have to spend $70 to watch this kind of buzz. This is now a super important fight to get this thing. moving along a bit, isn't, like, isn't that the case here? Get what moving along? The division? We have not, like, we've gotten nothing since July, really, outside of Covington Woodley.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I have a whole lot of, it, it was important, and it is important to move along the division and, you know, the Comsat fight getting lost, man that that fight just seems snake-bitten but you know there are other guys like you said like you mentioned kieza Thompson I think Vicente Lucke is a dark horse and then you have Chimaev

who could return at any time and take over the conversation this fight was between Burns and Usman was already delayed once from this past December. Twice. Yeah, and then once before that. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure how to answer that other than to say it.

Yeah, I mean, you know, typically champs defend, you know, twice a year. He defended, we're a little bit behind schedule, but Usman will come out from this fight. if Edwards and Shemayev is postponed, it depends on how long it's going to be postponed, and then you have Covington and Masfadol possibly on deck for maybe second quarter maybe, or maybe the summer card. So I think we're a little bit behind schedule, but, you know, I think the Welter vajivision is going to be fine. That's the best argument I have right now.

Josh, kind of in that same respect, especially with what we've just learned now, what outcome on Saturday is like better for business, in your opinion? Is it Usman continuing on his champion being this unbeatable guy, or is it Gilbert Burns coming in pulling off an upset? I think he's close to a three to one underdog right now against his former teammate and becoming the first, I believe the very first Brazilian Walterway champion in UFC history. What do you think is like has the better sort of afterglow?

I don't know that there's a real discernible difference. I'm not sure that either guy coming off this victory would be incredible that the UFC would all of a sudden have another star that they could really focus on. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, if you're talking about a challenger coming up and he destroys Kamar Usman, if Gilbert Burns does that, you know, that's easy to push forward, market, and sell. And you can throw anyone in with him and it be intriguing. and yes, the division feels stall. I think some matchmaking decisions over the last couple of years didn't make sense.

I really felt that the UFC had to have made George Mossvedal and Leon Edwards way back when they had all their issue. That was the fight to make. It would have opened things up. It would have answered a lot. Of course, things didn't unfold that way. That fight still lingers, and Leon Edwards has dealt with a mess. And now, Chima, I mean, COVID-long-haulers are a real deal thing.

And if the guy's still feeling effects in his lungs and these fights have to be put. push back. I mean, who knows what that story's going to look like. That's sad news to hear. So, you know, I don't know. I think you got to make the fights when they're there. And, you know, is there a fight that makes Kamar Usman or Gilbert Burns? Does it put them over? No, I don't think so in that weight class. I think that weight class has always been about competition, longevity, dominance. And if those things come into play, then then you, then you you can be marketable for the UFC based on the depth and the number of contenders that

were there to really challenge great champion. This is a division of great champions. So I guess to answer your question, Mike, Oussman winning, continuing his run, that's where the cachet is. That's where you can start building up legacy and legend. And, you know, I don't think we'll ever get to the point with Camaro Oussman that George St. Pierre is a real, real option. But that discussion linger, and that would help him as well.

So Usman's the answer, but I don't know in the end that is the marketable fighter that the UFC would want to get over and really make big bucks in this way class. All right. Last thing before we move on to our next topic, because I was going to dive in deeper into this card, but I'm not going to anymore considering this news we just heard, Josh. Are we done with this Shemai F. Edwards thing? Are we moving on now? Because, I mean, this is getting crazy now. This is what, three times? Do we keep playing this game or do we move on to other things? I mean, this fight, this matchup doesn't have to happen. Like, it got thrown together because of circumstance. And then we felt like, oh, we want to see it and it's got to happen. But it doesn't have to happen. So in a lot of ways, you can put Chimaeiv with any top 15 guy, any contender, any name,

and people are going to be interested. Hopefully he's healthy enough to do that this year. And I say this year, and I mean that. Hopefully, you know, he comes around quicker than that, but you never know. and Edwards is a top contender and he deserves to be considered a top contender. So, you know, there's names for him to fight. I want to see him fight George Mosswood all. Honestly, I still want to see that fight.

I hope we get to see that fight. And there are other fights for him to make. They have to make sense in terms of his ranking or you hold them out and have him fight the winner of Burns and Usman. But, no, I don't feel like I have to see this fight. I don't have to see this fight. If it's destined to be, you know, these guys are both young in their career still. and they'll meet somewhere down the road. The way Chimaev has been rolling,

he's going to be fighting for a title no matter what. And if Leon Edwards is that good, they'll meet up again. So I'm not worried about it. You can break them off if they come back together at some point in the future, terrific. If not, that's okay too. Stephen, we're done with us, right?

Can we move on with... Yeah, yeah. Look, Leon Edwards has gotten screwed. He's really gotten screwed. And for a lot of circumstances that were completely out of his control. this is number three against number 15 and we're doing this because

Chimaev has his own gravity and he's been so amazing obviously he's delivered in the cage but he's got his own gravity in terms of the attention that he draws Leon Edwards needs to move on you know independent of Shemayov

you know he can't be the bar that he had Shemayev can't be the bar he has to clear to get a title shot at this point he has done his job he has trained he just shown up. He's gotten COVID. You know, he's been stuck in the UK when this thing all went down. He had the fight with Tyron Woodley.

Who knows where his career goes if he beats Tyron convincingly at that point? It's unfair to make him wait and wait and wait. He's put together an eight-fight winning streak. Eight fights. That's really hard to do. and the division that I agree with Josh is really more about competition and dominance than necessarily star power. And I think that's, you know, we're seeing, we've seen that bucked a little bit because of some of the stars that have been created in this division. You know, whether it's Shemayev or whether it's Masfidal or whether it's Covington.

We've also seen the consequences of that because we have these guys who are now major stars and it's tough to get them in the same page. It's tougher to make fights with these guys who bring all this attention and have their own following. But Edwards is a guy who's just been grinding, man. You know, he's been doing his thing, and he has beaten a lot of good names. And with this canceled, I mean, I wouldn't say it's Khabib, you know, Tony. But we might take a lesson from that and move on here. I would agree. We will see how all of the shapes out.

Maybe we'll have an answer. Maybe we won't. We'll see how UFC 258 shapes up. And we'll discuss all of this on the program next week. We will, of course, have all of your 258 coverage right here in MA fighting. You won the live weigh-in show tomorrow, noon Eastern time. So stay tuned for that. As far as this matchup goes, we head to the final question of regulation.

And in the lead, earning the point for round three is a drum roll on time. Stephen Morocco is up two to one. That was a tough one to score. that was like 10 to 9 in 3 quarters. I hate being the judge. It sucks. Are we doing half point scoring? Can we do that? Where's Doc Hamilton? That was that was a quarter point difference.

But who knows what happens on live shows? Sometimes we get terrible breaking news and here we go. But we talked enough about the UFC. Let us move ahead to the World of Bellator MMA. Their big press conference on Tuesday, we got a lot of news confirmed. First off, the company returns on April 6th. second, headlined by Patricia Pipple versus Emmanuel Sanchez for the featherweight title. It's a semi-final for the Grand Prix.

Winners are going to face AJ McKee in the finals. They also announced the kickoff of a light heavyweight Grand Prix that kicks off April 9th. First round wraps up April 16th with Y'all Romero versus Anthony Johnson headlining that card first round matchup. Of course, noteworthy, all those dates are Fridays. So they switch back to the Fridays from Thursdays. Plus, on top of all of that, Bellator's new home is Showtime. So another new network for Bellator is going to be Showtime. So a lot to unpack right there, Josh Gross.

So to make this as simple as possible, how did they do? How did Bellator do? Well, it's nice to hear from them. So they did well. They dropped a lot of news on us. The Showtime news, certainly no surprise to anybody who's followed the combination between Viacom and CBS and understanding what their commitment to mixed martial arts and Bellator look like. and the relationship between Stephen Espinoza at Showtime and Scott Coker of Bellator.

So all of that totally makes sense. The one thing I didn't hear was CBS. And are they going to go on network television? That's the one big piece to drop. For now, it seems like they're focused on Showtime, building the Bellator property around Showtime. This is a successful formula for Scott Coker, a work with Strike Force. They have a deep roster. You got excited about some of the fights there.

I think a lot of people matchup-wise about the light heavyweight tournament are going to be excited. You know, I do feel like Bellator hit most of the right notes. Showtime hit most of the right notes. You know, I guess we'll see how this kicks off in April, three cards, three successive weekends in April, if that's right. And a bunch of title fights, a bunch of compelling fights with fighters that, whether you're a UFC watcher or you watch the entire sport, you're going to know. Anthony Johnson and Y'all Romero, and you're going to be interested in that fight, and you're going to want to watch that fight. And there's a lot of other matchups in this tournament that sort of check the right boxes. So, yeah, I think they got it correct.

They announced enough. They took them long enough, but they announced enough. And they got enough stories out of that event. And the big news is that they have a home. And they are on solid footing in that home. And viewers know where they are and where they exist. And they're in a place that has shown it has a. a serious commitment to combat sports

and knows how to market and sell combat sports. And I think the partnership between Bellator and Showtime will be a successful one. Yes, as Joseph Boza mentioned, Bellator will be back in May as well for the Bannonway title. Warnat Your Lita versus Sergio Pettis, that should be fun.

But what did you think, Stephen? How would you, how would you, I guess, grade their press conference and the information we received? I felt like it was a slick press conference, but ultimately I felt it was kind of like back to the future a little bit. Josh and I have been around a minute, and we saw the strike force Casey, too, and Esther,

who are in their apartment right now. But we've been around a bit. We've seen this. They did this with the Strike Force Heavyweight Grand Prix. I mean, what I'm talking about basically is like an assembly of talent to hook people in to this new platform or new old platform because Strike Force was on Showtime previously

and it reunites two producers of content to see things the same way. Showtime, as Josh said, I think has more of an appreciation for combat sports. It's a smaller platform than Paramount per se. But it is considered to be premium content. It has a history of combat sports promotion. And I think that Stephen Espinoza is a fan of the sport and wants to be involved in the sport.

Not that Kevin Kay didn't. Kevin Kay obviously left in the middle of the Paramount tenure. It's certainly better than CBS Sports Network as far as the cachet that it brings to the promotion. My question is this. Are a collection of mostly former UFC light heavyweights more significant than some of the draws that they had in the heavyweight tournament like Fedor and Overeign? who at that point hadn't made their jump yet. And that's what I'm unclear on. I think that these matchups offer, you know, excitement.

You know, you get guys in there that are big guys that like to throw down, and, you know, they tend to attract more casuals or whatever. But, you know, is it more, is it enough to sort of put them on that next level and to do better than what they did with some of their most successful shows rating-wise, which was when they basically did nostalgia plays and they did Kimbo Slice and Ken Shamrock, T.2 Ortiz, Stefan Bonner. Those were the most successful shows from a ratings perspective for them. and their initial plan was to do those shows, have those tent pole events, and build up a bunch of stars. And I think that they have built a bunch of stars up,

but I also think that we're in a different time now. It's not 2010, it's 2021. And I think the sport is at a different level, and the UFC remains a dominant force. So I'm glad that they're moving forward with what they've got. I certainly think it's more attractive than flyweight tournament, which was their original plan. But I think they, we still need to see how things play out with Showtime before we start

making any, you know, huge conclusions about where they're headed. All right, a couple of comments I want to address one, one, I saw one question about who would be the alternate is a Gaygar Musassi. I will tell you, I don't know why it didn't happen, but I know I can tell you that Gagar Musassi was planned to be in this tournament in this round for you. He was offered and he wasn't interested. He focuses at 85 for him. That's my understanding.

Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. That was, they planned up bringing him in. It seemed like it was going to happen. And then for some reason it didn't. There we go.

I think Josh kind of explained that. And then another thing, you know, there's this old cliche in everything that, especially when you have things that, you know, with these moving parts and things happening and big change and all that stuff is, It doesn't matter how you start.

It's how you finish. So having said that, Josh Gross, has Bellator laid the foundation in your opinion to have a massive year? Like not a good year, but like a massive year. One, we're going to look back five, ten years from now and say, hey, remember what Bellator did in 2021? That was a great year. They knocked it out of the park. Do you think, are you confident enough that at the end of this year, if you come back on the show, we're going to be talking about how great of a year it was for Bellator?

Are you going to tell me I'm not going to be a reigning champion and I won't be guaranteed to be back on this show? Was that what you're we already at that point here? Hey, listen, maybe you're the Kamara Usman of the show and you're on forever. I would love that. Let me tell you what. I think Scott Coker has planned for this moment for, from the time he signed with the organization, they did a bunch of free agent signing, some older names, but at the same time they were cultivating talent, building talent up. And that talent has matured now to the point where they are ready to be showcased and given the reins.

And while I think, you know, there's still going to be people say, oh, Bellator is just a place where old UFC fighters go to die. That's a real lazy way of looking at what they're doing. And it really dismissive of Scott Coker and his vision as a promoter. I mean, this is almost now the Strike Force blueprint. In fact, it's the Strike Force blueprint with more resources, better backers, the stronger foundation, and the kind of really sort of knowledge that he didn't have in a previous life. He went through it the first time with Strike Force.

Now he's got all that experience in this moment with. Bellator, the expectations have to be for a major year for that company. That has to be a year in which Bellator gets over with fans. I don't even know why I use that term. It's a pro wrestling term, but I guess people will understand it. It's a year that Bellator has to give fights that excite people and they need the fighters to deliver on those fights. So this is not just the one-way streak.

The fighters have to deliver and they generally have. I think they're extremely well positioned. This is like an intentional moment. in time. It didn't just happen this way. They built up to this moment. They have prepared to have a great 2021. And I think you have to expect it. So the answer is yes, they are primed and ready for it. And I believe they're going to pull it off. But we don't know that. We'll see. But everything that they have in front of them says this is going to be a major year for Bellator. Stephen, what do you think? Like if you had the Bellator crystal ball in front of you, is it like

sunshine and roses and fans and money raining down in this in this globe for 2021 because they made all these right choices or is it going to be a year where we're talking about belts or were like, yeah, they had great ideas, but just didn't pan out the way we all hoped it would. I would make the argument that it's more on the fighters than it ever has been because when you talk about the blueprint, I mean, it's obvious that they're kind of running the same, they're running from the same playbook. They've certainly got more history behind them. but they've done this before they've you know they're they're they're they're going back on this on this platform with a big product a big splashy opening i would argue it's more on the the fighters than

ever to make a splash because back in 2010 we didn't have as much content as we do now we are drowning in content we are drowning in mma content when everybody gets back up and running and covid takes the back seat or is mitigated in some way we're drowning in content. There are going to be so many shows running. There's so much competition for talent. There's a lot of fatigue out there. So in my opinion, it's going to be about can these prospects like the Picos and the McKees and the Pitbulls, pit bulls obviously not a prospect, but can these Bellator stars deliver in a way that gets them over, creates the viral moments and elevates the platform as a whole.

And that's, you know, something we're going to have to see. All I'll say is color me intrigued, ladies and gentlemen, watching right now. I love what they've been doing. And as a guy who, like, interviewed prospects for so many years, I love that they're signing some of these fighters that they're signing. I love the signings like the Jared Skagin signings. We just saw Magamad Sheripov get signed. One of them are Magamadavs, who many are saying is,

who's bond is the best one, is the best of all of them. So I'm, like, outside of Habib, obviously, but just they're doing such a great job signing these talented fighters, one, for their own roster and two, to keep them off the contender series and keep them out of the UFC. I love what they do. And I love that they figured out the broadcast stuff in the UK so that those fans can watch these events live. It's good for Canada because I know they had a hard time last year. It's just trying to find these freaking shows. I just hope this is the formula for a long time.

They stick on the same network. You want to sprinkle on a CBS show? That's great. But keep things same network, same day of the week. let's keep things consistent for a long period of time. Keep these big signings, the prospect of free agent signics coming. I like what they're doing. And by the way, that also means the iconic voice of the show Esther Lynn

is going to be back shooting MMA fights, hopefully. So just like I like what these two gentlemen are doing. And with that, the point for round number four goes to Josh Gross. I love how the drums started for like just a quick rat tat and then it just died. But that means we're going to head to the knocker around. And as you know, one question will decide at all. Neither of these gentlemen know what this question is. And in fact, they will not be answering the same question this week.

And for 2021, consistent viewers of the show, you know what that means. But be that as a may, each competitor will have 60 seconds to speak. Once they have done their thing, we will turn it over to the judge to render the final decision with the help, of course, of all of you wonderful viewers. So Josh, you do have the champion's advantage here. Do you want to go first or would you like Stephen to go first? No, I'll hit second. All right. Stephen is used to this.

I think he knows where we're going. Ladies and gentlemen, for the knockout round this week, and we've done this a couple of times. It is time for what am I thinking? We're back with what am I thinking. Hey! So how this is going to work is we will have four selections. Each competitor will choose a number between one and four.

And each number will represent a fighter or someone who is tied to the world of combat sports in some way. And you'll spend your 60 seconds speaking on behalf of said person. You don't have to do impressions or anything like that. If you want to, great. But you don't have to do that. But that's how this works. This person, you know, maybe is in the news, something going on involving them. But there you go.

That's what we're going to do it. I actually had about 15 names here. I put them in a hat and four were chosen at random. So Stephen, please choose a number between one and four. Oh, three. Go in number three. All right. We're going to put 60 seconds on the clock, and then I'll reveal.

Well, actually, hold on. I'm being told by the producer. By the way, Casey Leiden is not the judge this time around, all right? The judge is someone we just mentioned, the iconic voice of this program, the one who will be hopefully shooting lots of combat sports in 2021 with this new bell at the iconic Esther Lynn, ladies and gentlemen, Esther Lynn, right there in the bottom right hand corner. We'll be listening to your answers.

It will be judging you for them. So we have one minute on the clock. Stephen chose number three. Stephen, you are Joe Rogan. You are Joe Rogan. 60 seconds. What is Joe Rogan thinking right now, Stephen Morocco? Time starts now.

Well, I'm thinking about how I just went on a sweet hunt with my bro, Alex. Jones and Eddie Bravo and got a solid, you know, three-point buck. We ate it raw by the fire with a side of on it to, you know, help our brains function at a higher level. I am looking forward to going back to the UFC broadcast. Frankly, I don't know what all this controversy is about. I am the voice of the UFC. I'm certainly better than Stephen A. Smith, if we're talking about controversy in shows. So if you want a link to the past of this sport and the U.S. bro of the UFC, you need me.

Well said, well said. All right. Rogan is off the table. You heard it. Esther Lynn, she responded in kind. If you are watching right now, leave it in the comments what you thought of his answer. Josh Gross, you have three numbers to choose from you. You can choose number one, number two or number four. What do you go with? Number one. Number one, Josh Gross, you are Benile Daryush. You're Benile Daryush, who got a big win over Carlos Diego Fajeda on Saturday night, long winning streak. One, one, on the clock. What are you thinking, Benile Darius? Your time starts now. I'm probably pretty

happy. I am happy, actually. I'm very happy. I'm Benile D'Ruish. And I tend to enjoy myself and really love this game. And, you know, when I'm out of the cage, I like to wear comfortable clothes, a lot of shorts. But that's all good because it goes with my flip-flops and then I go to the gym and I train all the time because really that's what I do. I train and I fight and I I give amazing happy press conferences most of the time or sort of self-reflective. I should feel really good about myself. I had one of the best performances in my career over the weekend. It was a guy I already beat, but, you know, beat him again pretty good.

Like I dominated him. And he tested me, but, you know, it wasn't that much. Look, I think I'm right there. I mean, give me anybody. I don't like calling people out necessarily. but sometimes you got to. So I don't want Connor Gregor. I want a title.

Give me a title. This is my favorite segment on the show. I love this so much. By the way, the other two dives, number two was Paige Van Zant, by the way, and number four was Habibn Maghamagamatov. But there are lots of fun names that were in the hat.

Gina Carrano was in there. Britton Hart was in there. There were lots of fun names in there. Connor McGregor was in there and so forth and so on, but those are the four we came up with. Normally we would turn this over to Casey, but we're going to turn it over to the iconic voice of Esther Lynn. In a matter of moments, we're going to let the comments sort of come up and catch up in the chat.

But just a reminder, we get you covered with 258 coverage, way ins tomorrow like we discussed, get a preview show tomorrow afternoon, and we get the pre-fight show 30 minutes before where we answer all of your questions, and we'll have the post-fight winner scrums because Jose Youngs is in Vegas right now. We get the press conference, post-fight show, et cetera, on to the next one on Sunday. So stick with us, is basically what I'm saying. All right.

Hopefully we have tallied the votes in the comments. Let us check in with the honorable, iconic Esther Lynn to render the final decision. Who gets the strap, Esther? So I've been looking at the comments. And I kind of have to agree with Jeremiah Kaye, is that even though I really liked Stephen's rendition of Joe Rogan because of his hunting,

and on it. Hmm. Dot, dot, dot, dot. Hmm. Well. I'm glad. Have you made a decision? Yes.

All right. Here we go. Josh Gross. Sorry. Go ahead. Josh Gross gets it done. Why is it Josh Gross? Sorry.

Why is it? because I like both of them very much, but I will say in the comments, Jeremiah Kay brought up, he said two out of ten because there wasn't enough DMT talk. Stephen, you missed out on the fan of mentioning DMT and shrooms. Not enough psychedelic drugs, Stephen.

Yeah, not enough psychedelic. Fair point. Fair point. Not a problem with Benile. No psychedelic drugs with him. You're good. Yeah, I wear comfortable clothes. B'Neil Dariush.

Thank you. Thank you. It was pretty on when Vaniel Daryuch was like, oh, he wouldn't, he wouldn't call anybody out, which he wouldn't. It was last week he could see that he was upset that he still hasn't gotten bigger fights, but he still wouldn't say it. I love how he called out the matchmakers, and then he, at his post-fights scrum, he apologized for calling out the matchmakers and the matchmaking. So classic Vidal Darius. But Josh Gross, you win again. So you have 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is. Thank you so much. This is amazing, Stephen. I'm glad to have competed against you twice. I will now move on from you. And I'm not sure what to do in terms of challenges or whatever. Maybe Nate Diaz. Nate Diaz can come on here and do this show. What do you think about that? I don't know that I have anything on my mind except that there's an awesome mixed martial arts fight this weekend. And too many times people get caught up in stuff that doesn't matter.

just remember that Kamar Ufman and Gilbert Burns is a great fight. It's a tremendous fight, and Gilbert Burns is this fight. And Kamar Usman's an amazing champion. And if you like mixed martial arts, you've got to be hyped for this fight. It's a tough question. Do you want to fork over your money or not? To me, this is a bar fight. I'm sitting in a bar to watch this fight.

Can't do it yet, so that's a tough call. But they deserve your respect. Give them your respect. Watch the fight if you can. if not, you know, it's we'll, UFC's got to pay for it, but it hurts the fighters.

It's a tough choice for everybody right now, difficult times. All I would say, thank you very much, and that's all I got for you. Until next time. All right.

You're back next week, Josh. Can we confirm this? I mean, I can't lose. Let's go. Okay. I think we have somebody in mind for you, Josh. I think we have somebody in mind,

sort of a dream matchup here with the folks here at MMA fighting. But, Stephen, a hell of a run. I think you've been on the show every week of 2021 outside of week one. How do we feel here? I mean, I think this is what the fourth in a row you were on? Exhausted.

I'm emotionally and otherwise exhausted. Also, I have to post something like ASAP right now. So, yeah, let's wrap this up. All right. All right. Well, that's it, everybody. Thank you for watching for Josh Stephen, Casey Lydon, on the production, The Iconic Voice.

of Esther Linda's going to take you out of here. I am Mike Kek. We'll see you back here next week once again. Between the Links. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links and Anime Fighting Production on the Vox Media Network.

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