MMA Fighting - Between the Links: Rob Font’s Big Win At UFC Vegas 27, Carla Esparza’s Title Hopes, Jon Jones, More

Episode Date: May 28, 2021

This week, Mike Heck hosts the BTL interim title matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and fellow journalist Fernanda Prates as they will discuss what they learned from Rob Font’s dominant decision win in the main event of UFC Vegas 27 over Cody Garbrandt and where both fighters go from here, Carla Esparza clearly earning herself a strawweight title shot, but will she actually get it? Also, they will react to Jon Jones who has had another busy week, which includes bringing on a new “advisor,” the upcoming fight between Max Holloway and Yair Rodriguez on July 17, Cris Cyborg’s successful title defense at Bellator 259, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Fernanda Prates: @NandaPrates Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... Once again, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. Thanks for checking us out live on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and of course, we can't leave out those listening on the podcast network or watching after the fact.

we welcome and appreciate you as well. As we have one hell of a matchup on the show this week, a rare weekend off without the UFC or Bellator. We got Combace Global. We got XFC. We have CFFC, a pair of events from them and others. So if you want MMA, you can find it, but you'll find MMA banter right here on this program.

Is the interim BTL title is on the line, and I'm excited to get this thing rolling. So let us introduce the Challenger, One of the best wordsmiths in the game. Without a doubt, she's excited to take on our interim champ. She's the host of the best camp of my life podcast, which is a must listen. No doubt about that. You can find that anywhere you listen to podcast.

Let us say hello to Fernando Prachis. Fernanda, thank you for being here. How are you? Thank you for having me. Yeah, you said I'm excited. Excited slash terrified. I feel like I'm going into this matchup with no expectations. I really just want to make it through the five rounds, you know.

Win or lose, that's the goal here today. We will make it as simple as possible for you as we introduce our reigning, defending interim BTL champion got himself in a lot of people's opinion, a split decision win over Alex Kay Lee last week on the show to regain some hardware. The man with the fiery takes that good, bad, indifferent, and invokes emotion. No doubt about that from MAAfighting.com. Mr. Jed Mishu. Jed, how are you, sir?

Who the hell thinks I got a split decision? I bought you back, Gayclay. Triple Yon was, we were done. We could have just cut the show at that point. It was over. That's nonsense, Mike, and you know it. I just had to say that because I have to hear how you kind of deal with these intros, and we know what kind of mode you're going to be in,

and we're in good shape. I also won't lie, the Triple Yon train took a bit of a hit. this weekend, but we'll get into that. It did. It did. So we will get into all of that and more. And while there's no UFC event this weekend, a lot came out of their offering this past weekend. UFC Vegas 27.

We have a new title contender at 135 pounds. We're going to begin there. Rob Font earns a dominant, unanimous decision win over Cody Garbrand in the main event five days ago, swept two of the judges scorecards, one judge with all due respect to Cody Garbrandt. That judge was obviously watching a completely different fight because he scores at 4847. I have no idea how anybody comes up with 4847 when it comes to that fight. But the New England cartel bounces back.

Rob Fon gets the biggest win of his career. And Jed, we're going to begin with you this week. Rob Fon is not much of a talker. He's a classic, let my fists do the talking kind of guy. And he let them speak very loudly for 25 minutes on Saturday. So I'm curious. What did you learn from Rob Fon's first main event and first main event victory on Saturday night? I think we may have learned that Rob Fawn is the best Bannonweight in the world.

Like I asked that in our private chat after the fight, not even with a Jed question, you know, where I don't really believe the thing I'm saying. Like I have legitimate questions if Rob Fawn is the best band of weight in the world. And I'd like to go into why because, look, I'm not a coach. Cody Garbrandt guy. We've heard me on this show say bad things about Cody Garbrandt because I think that he is a very make funnable fighter. It's very easy to make fun of Cody Garball. He really likes this one shots and then get knocked out. That's not what happened. Like I thought coming into this fight, Rob Font could could do that. Like Rob Font punches hard and Cody Garbrandt, that's a big weakness

of him is people who punch hard. So like I thought that's totally possible. What I didn't think we're to happen is watch Cody Garbrant get freaking styled on for 25 minutes. And that is what we got. Like, Rob Font has always had a great jab, but like he just pieced Garbrand up. And Garbrandt is ostensibly a good boxer. Like I now have to rethink everything I thought I knew about Cody Garbrandt because like maybe just maybe what happened is what I've said before kind of jokingly. Maybe Cody Garberon just had one kick-ass performance in his career against Dominic Cruz, and that was it. Like, he's just a good fighter who's going to have some good ones and some bad ones. But on that night, the biggest stage of his career, he was dialed to 100 because he looked freaking lost against Rob Font almost immediately. Like, I agree the 48, 47 scorecard is pretty insane.

But like, the only way you could view it is, at least in the first round, like Garbron, was behind, but he didn't seem like he was defeated. But then after that, like, he was just getting pieced up. And as I look at the rest of the division, like, I know Fonn has some recent losses or, you know, not too far in the past, but I, he's got a real chance against anybody at the top, like, just straight up. I guess I maybe favor Aljo, but it's hard for me to kind of view Aljo. just because how that fight against Peter Yan went.

But, like, Fon has a real chance there because he, his jab is so damn good. And, like, against, against Bader Yan. I would love to see that fight. I hope we get it because I also think that Fon has, you know, close to 50-50 against anybody in the world, which is not something I thought I was going to say, regardless of, you know, if he had come out and knocked out Cody Garbrandt, like immediately, I think I would have thought less of him. Not less, but like I wouldn't have the same reaction because that's, that was in the realm of what I thought was possible. I just didn't think for 25 minutes he would make Cody Garbrandt seem entirely useless because we haven't really seen that from anybody.

Even the people that have knocked him out haven't, you know, de weaponized him, which is really what Fawn did. Like he took everything away from him. It was in sensational performance. And I'm mistaken my flag in the ground. Best ban away in the world. get on the train now because he's the best guy. All right. A passionate plea from Jed Mishu about Rob Fon's status in this Bannamweight Division.

Fernando, after hearing what Jed just had to say, he is ready to put his flag in the ground that Rob Fon is the best Bantamay in the world right now. Did that performance give you that same feeling deep down inside, or at least what did you learn about Rob Fon's that maybe you didn't know already? I don't know if I'm ready to go that far. in my analysis. I will say this. What I learned from Rob Fon in this fight

is that I was incredibly wrong about Rob Fon. Not that I didn't know that he was killed and, you know, that he had power. And he was always an exciting fighter. We all knew that. But I think, and this is not an indictment of his skills in any way. It's an indictment of me being a fucking asshole. Sorry, an asshole.

It's okay. I forget this is not my podcast and that I should, know, be polite. Sorry, listeners and viewers. I'm not used to a big platform. I used to like five people with him to me. But I kind of had him in my head already categorized in the, I don't want to say gatekeeper,

because we know it's like a bad word. I wouldn't say that. But like in my head, I had kind of already decided Rob Fon was not title challenge your material. again, this was me being stupid. But I guess I've seen him falter in big moments before. We've seen the losses. So in my head, I had kind of like done that already.

And then the mile fight, which I was like, oh, okay, maybe I should be paying more attention. And like, Jed, I don't know if I should be agreeing with that. I think this defeats the purpose of the show. But like him, I was kind of like, I knew he could win. I was not that firmly on the Cody. wagon. I knew absolutely he could win that fight, but I wouldn't have been as impressed if he had come out and just knocked him out, right? Like what we saw was just beautiful and for a long time. It was just a sustained orchestra of violence. And I was not expecting that at all. It was

extremely impressive. But it's just such a weird for me fight to access because I'm sure we're going to talk about Cody Garber in this. And a lot of the talk has been Cody Garbin gasped. Cody Garburn, you know, we know he was coming off this really terrible battle with COVID, and he had blood clots, and we know, you know, these things don't heal overnight. Did he not look as good as he could have? This, to me, is one of those fights where you really have that question of how much of it was Rob being so on that he made Cody Garbin look terrible?

How much was Cody not looking terrible? I don't think he looked terrible. I mean, he was there throughout. He, I guess, answered some questions about his chin, which we have had justifiably for a while now. He tried different things. He didn't come out as aggressively. You know, so to me, I've still been thinking about the fight

in terms of what does it tell me about each athlete. To me, that's like the hard thing to separate. But, long story, short, I don't know if I'm ready to say that raw font. is the best phantom weight in the world yet because he still has a few people at least a couple to fight for me to be able to make that statement definitively he's the best and sort of because you know there's a reason cody go overrott got tired it's shocking people seem to get tired when they get their ass whooped i'm noticing that as a train in the car people gas out when they're getting the face jabbed off i'm there i didn't get there immediately

but I started Wondering Post fight and I rewatch the fight. I don't think Cody fought poorly, honestly. Like, Cody tried to do some different things. But the problem was everything you tried to do, he just got his ears boxed for it. Like when he tried to come forward and lose the dance, he got jawed like several times. And that's when you started to see him being like, okay, I don't want to do that. I'm going to come back up and sit against the cage. Instead, he's got sniper shot it.

Like, Rob Faunt's the best man in a way. Until somebody beats him, I'm going to say that forever now, Mike. to somebody beats him you do know he has been beaten before just just so we're getting this out of the way here everybody except habeb's been beaten before nobody's a bee that's fine here three years ago who cares about three years ago the current champ got beat the 91 the belt so fine well okay spicy takes that's right up the heat on my end I feel like this is, okay, now I know what I'm playing with here. That's what Jed brings to the table. That's why he's here so often because of these fiery takes.

He makes everybody things. So normally after a performance like that, and then you add on top of that, which we've talked about the big finish of Barle-Marayas, the four-fight winning streak, we are on this show right now talking about potential title shot for Rob Fon. And in most any other division, we might be doing that. However, this is the Bannamweight division,

and timing is. the biggest enemy of Rob Fonts because Al Jermaine Sterling's recovering from neck surgery. It's hoping to be back in November. Whether that happens, we don't know. Piero Jan, most likely opponent. UFC confirmed today that Corey Sanaghani, T.J. Dillishaw, that fight is official for July 24th. So the big thing in my mind coming out of Saturday was, was it better that Font went

first or was it worse that he went first? And that remains to be seen. But, Fernando, let me sort of tap into this wisdom that you bring to everything you touch because I spoke to Rob Font yesterday. He said that the best case scenario for him would be for Peter, Piotrion's urge

to fight just become so massive that he just fights Rob Font as soon as possible just to fight because he doesn't want to wait any longer for Al Jermaine Sterling. He did mention some other ideas. He didn't think that was like a strong possibility, but best case scenario, he said the UFC gives him Piotrion right now

because he wants to fight. But all in all, he's fine waiting to see how this all plays out. So I'm curious, where does Rob Font go from here? Yeah, I think everybody has, we're scratching our heads collectively on that one, right? And I think he did, the wisest move right now for me, for him would be to wait. Exactly what he, what he's saying is kind of like, I think we all just agreed that what's going to happen now to the title is that Al Jermaine Sterling is going to have another fight with Peter Young. But like you said, Al Jermaine is recovering from neck surgery.

And I know he's optimistic about his timetable, but we've seen in the past that these surgeries can be a little complicated. So, you know, his recovery might end up taking a little longer. And I do not think it's a crazy idea that the USC might end up being like, you know what, let's do an interim title and have Peotter fight Rob, which, and in that case, the timing would have been on his favor, right? because he's in a position where the timing is both terrible and great, right? I think that he's primed for a title shot,

that, you know, the wins that he has, the moment that he's having right now, like in an ideal world, like this is a few months from now is when he gets his shot at the title, and he happens to be in a division where that's just not going to happen right now. It's all really tied up. Another maybe interesting fight for him with Bialdo, all those schedule with Munoz. We have St. Hagen. We have, like I said, Zendigan and T.J. So in that sense, the timing is bad for him.

In another sense, we have a sort of murky timetable for Al Jemaine Serling's return. We have a lot of cancellations happening all the time. We have, you know, just the possibility that one thing falling through, he's in that position to just swoop right in. So for him right now, I would think it's advisable. to wait because of that possibility. And he has said, I know you talk to him, I read your story, and I know he said right after the press fight conference that he's okay with waiting a little bit, right? So because he doesn't want to fight down. And I totally see that. Why would he fight now?

Like, why would he want to fight Marab Vashvili? Like, that's a terrible fight for him. It makes no sense. So either he waits a little bit and, you know, the best case scenario really is kind of idealistic, but at the same time it could happen. Or he fights a name, right? Top of my head, Frankie Edgar, Dominic Cruz. I know throwing Dominic Cruz in the mix might make me a monster, but then again, several other things do. But I do think that those would be the best avenues for him.

But if he's okay with waiting, I'd say wait it out a little bit and just wait for some kind of resolution there because I don't know, I think it would be a shame for him to lose this time. timing to not be able to get a shot at the title because he lost somebody a little lower than him, you know? So that's kind of where I'm at right now. But I think that all of us are kind of in that same position. What do you think, Jed? Because although Sanhagen has looked phenomenal in his last two fights, Sterling ran through him less than a year ago and put him away in the first round. So is Rob Fonts now the president of the Corey Sanhagen and Al Jemaine Sterling fan clubs right now?

Like, is he just hoping that both of those guys win, win emphatically? Because maybe that gives him the shorter path to the belt. Or do you think it doesn't really matter? He's going to have to possibly fight behind him in the rankings, and he's going to have to fight at least one more time before he gets a title shot. So in a just world, he would just get the next title shot because he's the best band of weight in the world. He should just get the crowd, not even the shot. He should just sell him.

He should get the title shot because he's the best. and that's how justice should work. But Daniel Cormney said this week, there's no justice in the UFC, so that's not going to happen. The reality is it's pretty clear to me what's going to happen. He sits around, he fights the winner of T.J. Sanhagan. I, the day that Aljo won the title, which I did previously mock, but I actually totally stand by that as a legitimate title win, I feel like he should be a champion because you're an idiot if you throw that knee. So if I were calling all the shots,

Aljo would face the winner of Sandhagen Dillishaw for the belt because I don't think you should reward Peter Jan's stupidity by just giving him an immediate chance to run it back. And in that scenario, then Jan versus Fonk, that's clear-cut next title challenge. Instead, it's just going to be inverted. The UFC is going to eventually run back Jan Aljo, and then the winner of that,

it can fight the winner. of the winner of San Degen Dilleshaw versus Fawn. I think it's just pretty clear cut. You know, this is easy, right? Like, it's the time lines matchup. July is that fight. Alger doesn't seem like he's coming back till the fall. So you run Sandhagen, Dillashaw in July.

You make co-main event on the Aljo-Yan fight, the matchup between Fon and the winner of that. Easy, peasy, lim and squeezy. Yeah, that seems like the most sensical thing, but I mean, it's just, it just kind of sucks for Sandhagen because he's like right there. And most people thought like after the Edgar win, like he should just get a title shot and then all this crazy to snap what the title played. That's just a categorically insane thing. Like I get it. That was a freaking great knockout.

I'm sorry. What is San Fagan's winning streak? Like, why does he deserve a title shot? Because he knocked out old ass Frankie out Edgar with a knee. He got Morias and Edgar. Like, that's two really good wins. Like, that's not, ah, got to give him the title shot. He needs another one.

Well, obviously, font, interesting conundrum for him right now. But on the other side, we have Cody Garbrand, who has now lost four out of five. A lot of people thought, you know, that the world champion Cody Garbrant was back, maybe even a more improved version of that after the crazy knockout win over Jafel O'Sunso last year. And he was slated to fight Davis at Figuerreiro for the first. flyweight title at the end of last year. But then the COVID thing happened. He had some gnarly effects from that.

And then Brandon Moreno got in there and they're going to fight again in a little over two weeks. I can't wait for that fight. Now you get Ascar-askaroff in there winning fights at 125. And he's just booking wins like crazy. So Cody's in a tough spot right now, Jed, a crossroads, if you will. So where does he go from here? Like we talked about fompe being the best band of way in the world and what that can mean for him. But on the other side, where does no love go?

No love goes to get slept by Figgie Smalls. They're just going to run that back. All right, let's give him his title shot. And I think maybe the first time I was ever on this show, I won by saying, I can't wait to watch Cody Garbrand throw Bolo's with Figgie Smalls until he gets got. And it's a year delayed, but that's where we're heading, man. Like, that's cool. I'll watch the hell out of that fight, both because Figgie Smalls is the man

and because it's super fun to watch Cody Garbrant get blasted. But also, it's probably a pretty good fight. It'll be fun until Cody Garbrant goes to sleep. What's say you, Fernando? Where does Cody Garbrant go from Saturday night? Yeah, I think that the idea of him fighting Figita right now doesn't look as good. It didn't age as well, the idea of this matchup.

Well, depending on your perspective, if you want to see him get slapped, maybe, yeah, maybe that's the fight you make. But everybody always gets left. Everybody always wants to see Cody Garbrand unconscious. Okay. I feel like I'm just coming into this arena. I need to be comfortable before I just start trashing fighters. But I think I'll get there.

Have me here enough times. But yeah, so that's the thing. I going back to going down to flyway really is an option for him right now and I think that you know his speed might translate well like I don't know I think that that is absolutely a valid idea but if he wants to stay at Bentham one of the commenters said here and I think it was Mike Bonn who made that that matchup and I kind of like it is Cody Garber and Chenomalley I mean if he loses like very tragic for his career but like I just think it's an interesting one in the division, like the styles, I don't know, are intrigued me. I think his power might make

Sean have to respect him a little, maybe more than he has other opponents. So that and another one that I was reading that I kind of like is Malo Morais. I mean, it kind of makes sense divisionally, but it's not a glamorous of a fight. But I think that he's actually got more, he's one of those guys, right? He's so exciting. Even if people only watch him to see him get slapped, they are still watching. So he, I think he still has a few options. It's just a weird one to even gauge. Like I was saying, he's coming off four losses in his last fight, but he's not on his kid. He won after coming back. He beat half out in a very emphatic way. So it's a little bit of a weird one, but I would keep in Bantam wait for, yeah, for one other fight.

if I have to pick when I would go with Sean O'Malley just because I think it's like it could be fun. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot. Judd shaking his head. Why? Why? Because I mean because like I speak the truth. Sorry.

But like it's way nicer for him to go get slept by the flyweight champion that is for him to lose to frigging Sean O'Malley. That's going to be devastating to his career. He could at least like recover. Well, he got knocked out by the dude that everyone's trying to convince themselves is better at the DJ like, okay, that's fine. Now he still gets another friday. It's a free role to give him a flyaway title shot. You put him against Sugar Sean.

Yeah. Then he's done. You just can't do it in his career. He's coming off a lot. Like, that's the thing, right? Like, okay, we know we've established to begin this. That fairness is not really a thing we're expecting to happen in the world ever, but specifically in the UFC.

But like, I just don't really see them being as brazen as to give. him a title shot right now. I think one win, whatever win, against anyone, they might. But I don't know. I don't really see it happening for him. I'll see. Asker Rob getting a flyweight title shot is my thing. Like, who the hell else are they giving it to it that way, glass? They don't care about any of that. Yeah. But when they gave that title shot to Perez, Alex Perez? Yeah. Was that his name? I'm sorry. Yeah. That was that was really weird. Look at how much people care about the flyway division.

Alex Perez, is that his name? I think he's a top five fighter. But I got it right. It was his name. I'm just an insecure person, okay? I just second-guess myself a lot. I knew his name. But I mean, I will say this.

And again, I shouldn't be conceding wins here. But I'm just a bad competitor, I guess. I would tune in for that fine. I'm just setting myself up for, like, when I lose, I can just go and say that I beat myself. I really lost to myself in a day. Look, I'm just saying, if you ever want to have the fun that is Figgie Small versus Garbrand, you got to do it now because it seems unlikely that if we're, if we need a win streak from

Garbrandt, that doesn't seem like it's in the office. I'm not even saying a streak. I'm saying one. Literally. Asker Askerov. He could probably be him. I don't know, man. I don't believe in Asker Askerov.

So I want to believe that Cody Garbrant could at least stuff those takedowns. Well, we have a lot going on at 135 in the UFC. Apparently, we might have a lot going on at 125 in the UFC, depending on where Cody Garbrant goes. And there's also a lot going on at 115 pounds in the UFC. And that's where we're going next this week on BTL. But the point for round one goes to, I got to give it to the challenger here. I got to give it to Nanda because anyone.

Thank you. One point. Anyone that comes in here and drops expletives literally within their first response, you got to wait in the right way it. So kudos to you. That was a great round. I knew you were giving it to the point because you were all like, oh, please give your wise and knowing insight on this.

You've never said something so nice to me. I've been on this show 20-some odd times. You're like, all right, Jed, just go off, do whatever if you're going to do. Please, I'd like your well-thought and reasoned perspective on this thing. Favorites. I know I get that. I get that every time for you, Jed. You guys are too used to each other.

Like, that's the thing. You're nice to like the visitor. You're not nice to the people who live with. to you. It's true. It's great living with me. I'm great company, clearly. My fiance is a lucky man. Well, let us, let us head to the co-made event of UFC Vegas 27 where Carla Sparza picked up her first finish since she won the inaugural strawweight title against current champion Rose Namayunas. She goes out there in steamrolls Janjohnan. This was clear one-way traffic. And I think Carla knew that Another decision win, even though most people felt she had already done enough to earn a title shot,

that might not have cut it in this scenario. So she goes out and beats up Janjanan and stops her in the second round, leaves her a bloody mess. However, Fernando, there is an individual named Dana White, who is not willing to give his immediate stamp of approval on a Nami Yunus as far as a rematch. He put her in the conversation with another potential rematch for Nami Yunus against Zhang Wei Li, who she just stopped. stopped in less than 80 seconds a little over a month ago. So, Fernando, Carla, did everything she needed to do in that octagon, in that fight, and then some to earn a title shot. Why is that somehow not enough for Dan F.C. right now?

That's, I mean, do I have to answer? Of course. Money? I guess that's the answer to everything and every reasoning. I just, okay. That's the thing, right? And I think this is really where we're all at right now with Carla. Like she, there is nothing else she needs to do to her at this, right, at this point.

She has the streak. What was missing from the streak of finish? Well, what was missing from the entire UFC record of Carla with the exception of that one fight with Rose? Finishes, right? And then she does that. The other contenders in the division, right? and we're excluding Jean for the moment. You have the fight with Mackenzie Dern and Marina Rodris.

Marina, Carla, beat her. A split decision, but she did beat her. Mackenzie, she's almost there, but like if you put her next to, yeah, and she has a bunch of finishes. But if you put her next to Carla Espaza right now, Carla's resume really speaks for itself. The timing, you know, Rose did beat Wiley's Young. If Wiley was the champion, maybe we could have a different conversation. But Rose is the champion. They have that fight.

She beat Rose. Like, there's just such a perfect conversion of, like, storylines and the timing that I think it's really undeniable that this is, you know, as far as what Carla could do to earn this, it's done. But I think we all understand that there's a bottom line. And even though, obviously, I'm not saying Wiley's Young is not a worthy title challenger, if there was no one else in the division, especially considering Tatiana Suarez, who was a person we have been touting as a contender for a long time,

is moving up to flyway. Like, I wouldn't have a problem with her having the rematch necessarily, even though the fight ended quickly. She's an exciting fighter. I feel like people want to watch her. But right now, I think if we're just putting fairness on the table, Carla takes this. But then we know how the UFC, you know, how the Chinese market is important for the UFC. You know, we hear the numbers of the amounts of people who are watching their own social media. I don't know how much of that is solid and how much of that is just abstract concepts.

But like as a general concept, we agree that the UFC is interested in keeping the Chinese market. So, you know, I think that's a bigger fight just in terms of numbers and money. And that's me saying instinctively. Maybe when you put pen to paper, it's not even that at all. But I think that that's a more appealing, eye-popping fight for the UFC. And I would, even though, as we know, Daniel White was not emphatic and like Wiley-Jung is getting the rematch, she was non-committal. I just think that even the fact that we're still having this conversation,

that this is something that is being like it's either or I do feel like it will end up being Wally Jong and Rose Na Mayunas the rematch, which again, it's unfortunate for Kyle. I think she really did everything she needed to earn this opportunity. What do you think, Jed? What else does Carlos Sparza need to do? Like, outside of her getting, we talked about this on like the post-white show and stuff, outside of her just like roasting Paul Felder and just like going on a tirade on the microphone after the wind, which is not her style, like what else could she have done

to earn a title shot here? I mean, honestly, it's not that hard. All she had to do is get Chinese citizenship. She'd have the title shot. She needs to move the day. I don't know how long you have to live there to get citizenship and apply for that. But she'll have it. Done.

Lockstock. We're sealed. Outside of that, this was always going to be the outcome. It was always going to be Dana White equivocating because Wiley has that look in her eye or whatever dumbass reason he's proposed for that. Like I will dispute what my illustrious challenger said. a lot of big words, which I don't like, and so I take those as a sign of disrespect. And what I'm going to say here is that I do not believe in any circumstances that while he deserves a title shot, there should be consequences for losing fights.

I think this is true of Peoria. Like, I don't think he deserves a title shot because he lost legitimately, even if he's a better fighter than Aljo. like you there should be consequences for screwing up and like whether wiley lost because like the coaches there was the issue with the coaches or the moment overcame her whatever the hell like she got got and she should have to get one more win like i never liked it when long reigning champions get immediate title fights like immediate rematches because you should be rewarded for for winning and not have to do the same thing twice but like at the same time wiley wasn't even that while he had one title defense best you know one of the three best fights of all time awesome but she doesn't deserve a title fight run it back with you on a jay check just run that fight back give kala sparser a crack at the belt like she's not going to win so it doesn't matter like she's still going to win and then you can do the wiley rematch like carla's not going to win that fight but there is going into that fight if carla had come out with a the same the same

four fights before that, you know, like a very questionable decision or whatever, like a grindy, I'm just going to sit on top of you, not throw a lot of offense, hold on until I get to the bell. But that is not at all what she did. She beat that ass for a round and a half before she finished from the top crucifix. Like that is in no way the outcome I think anyone expected. Like even if you thought as far as was going to win, you didn't think she was going to turn it to that level. Like you should be rewarded for performing. in the biggest stages at the biggest moments.

So, and ultimately I think she's going to get it. Like Dana's going to try and angle this in any way he can, but a rose isn't going to be like stoked about running it right back with Wiley. And so I think they're just going to do the Asparza thing. I know that this is the point where I'm going to lose like everybody and I'm okay with that. What you do is you do it. They're the coaches for tough. You do it.

There's a whole circle. It's brought full circle. They coach the next season of tough, and then they fight after it. It's a very neat bow put on the end of this story. Rose beats her ass. We're done. We never have to do it again. And then Rose can go fight whoever the top-ranked Chinese fighter is at the time,

because that is clearly what the UFC is looking for. All right. So one believes that John Wiley gets a rematch. One believes Carlos Sparzer gets the title, gets her rematch. I wouldn't be surprised with either result at this point. But, I mean, I think it would be a borderline. travesty if Carlos Sparza doesn't get the next title shot. I mean, come on, but we'll see what happens.

But real quick, before we go to round three, I do want to touch on this because where do we go with Edmund Shabazi and Jedmishu? He gets booked with Jack Hermanson after losing to Derek Brunson. His first loss, a lot of people thought the Derek Brunson fight might have been too much. He loses. We saw how he lost. And then you book him with Jack Hermanson. This was questionable matchmaking at best if you look on social media.

And not a lot of people were like, we're like, wow, this is great matchmaking. They were just like, what, what are you doing? Why would you slow this kid down right there? But now he's lost two in a row. He just got, he had a good first round, Ben got thumped the rest of the way. What do we do with Edmund Shabazzian now?

Man, this deserves more than the quick hit we're going to, because there's a lot to unpack here. A bit of this is Monday morning quarterbacking here. Because, like, if he had just done what he did in the first round for another three minutes, we wouldn't have this conversation. Like, it was just been like, oh, look, Edmund responded and look how much better he's gotten against grappling or whatever, but he didn't.

And so now we're here like, oh, this was bad. To be clear, this was bad matchmaking at the first place, but it's not really the UFC's fault. It's really where he goes is to another team, both because I firmly disliked coaching staff that is around him for, I think, really clearly obvious reasons for anyone who's deep in the game, which you probably are if you're watching the show, and he can do a lot better and develop better elsewhere.

But also, nobody has any idea how to manage his damn career because the story here is that Edmund didn't want to step back. He wanted to get right back in, and that's not what you do with a 22-year-old fighter. You develop them. You let a prospect develop. They tried to rush him. He got knocked back down.

Okay, great. He's not going to be a Wundrkin. You can just go baby steps up. You need to take him all the hell back. and fight either backass into the top 15 or somebody not ranked, someone that he can get some cage time, work on developing new skills. He's still really young.

We don't need to be like he has to get the belt now or it's all a waste. Just let him develop over people who are good, but he should win and be able to work and build new things. And frankly, at this point now, build some momentum, build some interest amongst the fans. And Shabazzian here. I understand where Jets coming from, like if Edmund Sabazian had just done that for another three minutes, but Jackermanston is very good at making adjustments on the fly.

And there's no way he was going to let Edmunds Jabazian just pick him apart at distance the way they did in the first round. So Jacker Manson did what Jacker Manson does? And now Shabazzian has lost two in a row. So now what? Now what do we do? It's, I totally agree with that. And it's funny because this card really, I wasn't paying that much attention to it. And for some reason, like I didn't even realize that Edmund was scheduled to face her

and until like the week before. And I remember looking at it being like, why? Just why is this happening? Like because the way he lost to Brunson was, was not like, oh, he got knocked out and it happens. Like it was a loss that really exposed an immature fighter, right? And I don't mean that in a bad way. I'm sorry if that word is too long for you, Jed.

A green fighter, is that better? And. But he, you know, that really showed that this was a fighter who needed to work on a lot of things. And exactly like you said, Jet, like, you understand that a fighter that young will be like, you know what, I'm feeling great. I don't need all this time to recover from this. Like, I just need to dial in mentally. And I was reading a story that his heartbeat was like his resting heart weight was under 30, which is great because that means it's so athletic. I don't know, I'm not a doctor.

I think it makes him look like a vampire, but that's a whole other thing. The thing is like you understand why a 20-something who was winning a lot until he wasn't would be so eager to get back in there. But you, as a manager and as the people around him, again, not the matchmakers or the UFC. They have their own interests.

We can't keep expecting them to look out for the fighters. Would it be smart of them to build their tech? Allen slowly so that they can, you know, reap the fruits of having a developed contender later, yes, but we've seen enough to know that it's not exactly how it happens. And this happened. He started off really well. I think we've established that and it looked encouraging, but then Jack Hermanson is just a really freaking good fighter. And we saw that. I saw some people even here saying like, oh, Edmund and Holland would be interesting. Maybe because we also saw Holland has a few holes on his game that, you know, a few ways that he can develop. He's also sort of immature in his own way. So this could be an interesting one. But honestly, if I'm like Shabazzian's team, I'm just taking a step back and really working foundationally at this point. Yeah, it's an interesting situation he finds himself in.

But that's UFC Vegas 27. Big up to the bonus winners, Asparza, Bruno Silva look good, 60 second K.O. Big shout out to the fight of the night between Jared Bandera and Justin Taffa. All in all, not a bad card at all. I think the time off, the weekend off comes at a very good point. But now we're going to look ahead on a busy week. It has been for one John Jones.

That usually happens every week. But we're going to talk about it on the program this week. But first, the point for round two goes to Jedmishu. He ties it up one-to-one. Good stuff. We put all the wind out of my failures by telling me we were talking about John Jones next. God. Just, oh.

Get ready, Fernando. Get up. Get up for this. Jed's starting to lose some of that mojo because we're talking about the former light heavyweight champion. It is exhausting. Well, you're going to get the opportunity.

I won't say that we have similar energies going into this one. I'm with you in mood. Not something I'm looking forward to discussing. Okay. This is somewhat. about John, but more about kind of the other pieces of the puzzle, because we have John Jones, decided to vacate his title last year. He's been bulking up for the move to heavyweight. It's been going back and forth with the UFC about getting the big fight for the bell with

Francis and Ghanu, officially parted ways with first round management. He's been going back and forth with Chale Sunning in this week. That's trash. The iconic voice Doing that shit to me Come on The iconic voice Can't believe this

She was in my city last week And she's doing this to me Come on Such trash For an animated close By uh With the vocabulary comment But I digress

I digress So John's been staying busy Going with the whole Chal Sounded thing He said a few things throughout the week And then He made a big move yesterday that got a lot of attention. He has a new advisor who is the former CEO of

Golden Boy promotions Richard Schaefer and Richard's been making big deals and doing a lot of big things on the promotional end for several years now, a couple decades. And Fernando, we have heard other names being thrown around in regards to who will be handling Jones's career moving forward. A lot of people thought maybe Ali would get in there. Paradigm was rumored at times to maybe be in the mix. We were really sure. But, When you found it was Richard Schaefer, did you have any reaction to this news whatsoever? I might be forfeiting my point here, but I had no idea who Richard Schaefer was. And, but obviously I read about it because I'm an intellectual and a journalist and I do my research.

But correct me for a moment. Are we having like this whole conversation in terms of Dana White doesn't hate Richard Schaefer? so maybe we can get a negotiation going. Like, is it really as simple as that? Because that's what I've been reading from this entire situation. Like, oh, we're encouraged because it turns out that Dana White actually respects this guy. And therefore, we might be able to get a deal that we couldn't have gotten otherwise, which to me seems a little high school, not that that is entirely surprising.

So I think I would need to be more clarified in this route than anything else. I can clarify it's high school and the fact that we're all lying to ourselves like this matters at all it doesn't matter at all Richard Schaefer's not going to do what about this I don't care if Dana likes it or doesn't this is the biggest non-story that's like it's by definition it's not really a story because fundamentally doesn't change a damn thing okay so just kind of like not much time, Mike. No, but like, just to kind of build on this, because I mean, we know where this, where this conversation is heading because Kevin Ioli of Yahoo did a couple of interviews,

one with Richard Schaefer in particular. And, you know, he said he respects and likes Dana White and the feeling seems to be mutual. They seem to, you know, like the same people. They hate the same people. And Richard's goal is to sit down with Dana. And find a way, I believe this is an exact quote, I'm just going to pull it up here, find a way to structure a deal,

which nobody will be happy with, but everybody can live with. So like Judges so eloquently put it, Bernanda, doing it is a whole different thing than saying it, and Dana is as stubborn as it gets, as we all know. So does,

I mean, are you confident at all that Richard Schaefer will get Jones Dana White and the UFC on the same page? Like, are we going to see photos on Instagram, of all these guys at a room together sharing a stake? I just don't see it happening to you. Oh, man.

And that's, but that's the thing. And that's whenever we're talking Joan Jones, and that's why I really understand Joe, that's sort of like reaction to the idea that we're discussing Joan Jones is that it's always got all these layers. And we're always just like, and he's so unpredictable. And he'll say a thing. And they say something else.

And, you know, I think for a little, bit there. It was looking like, oh, maybe Joan Jones is the guy that can really, you know, because of his stature, he can really just help move things along in terms of just fighters and the U.S. relationships. And then he was not. And then, you know, he's saying, I'll fight. And then he's saying, no, I'm going to give it a year to prepare to go to heavyweight. And then two months from now, I wouldn't be surprised with seeing a picture on Instagram of him, getting ready to go back to light heavyweight. Like this is just, at the, this point, I'm not confident in anything that has to do with Joan Jones just because that's

the way that his career goes in. I will just say that I am a supporter of fighters being kind of assholes because it's their careers and it's their lives. And I do think that they get to call their own shots. And if, you know, he can afford to sit out a year and wants to sit out a year and feel better about coming back, like you do you. That's your prerogative. But I don't have necessarily a problem with that. I feel like we are a bit too much into fighters businesses. But, you know, it really, at the same time, he sent so many mixed messages and we've given him so much goodwill at this point, but I find it really hard to like really predict anything. But if I have to, I will say there will be an agreement. And like you said, that it's like the quote,

like you quoted Richard Schaefer saying it will be one of those things and it won't be the huge pay that Joan Jones want which for me it's sad because it's a loss for all fighters because for him but might just be enough to make him happy and make it like a tiny individual win and then he'll fight and life will go back to you know you the usual which I don't know I'm not particularly satisfied with because I feel like a fighter like really putting their foot with a fighter like Joan Jones really putting their foot to getting exactly what they wanted would be such a huge win for fighters in general. But that's the world we live in.

Jed, do you care to see, do you want to see John Jones versus Ransanaganu? Is that a fight that, like, as a fan, you were just fired up to see? Yeah, for sure. I think it's really a good fight. Like, honestly, my thoughts on this can largely be summed up by what Chal Sondin said yesterday, which that's always a strong start to say, I wholeheartedly agree with Joe. You know they do it.

But I wrote about it for the site this morning because, like, Sunnan hits most of the key points here. Like, honestly, straight up, like, this change is nothing. If this change is anything at all, it's not that Richard Chafford has a good relationship with Dana White. One, Dan and John don't negotiate anyway. Like, that's very clear. Dana has said it many times. I don't actually do, I think Hunter is the one who does that with John. So he hasn't really been involved in this anyway, which is good because if you could put two people less likely to come to an agreement in a room, then John Jones and Dana White, I don't know who the hell they are.

Like that is, those are the two most oil and water kind of people to come to an agreement about what they want in the world. Schaefer's statement about, you know, finding an agreement that nobody's happy with. Yes, that's called compromise. And Dana White doesn't do it. I would be very shocked if you could point to any fighter contract in the last decade that Dana was unhappy with. Maybe, maybe a Connor one. But even that, I just don't think that that's true because he's holding all the cards. And that's the real key here.

The only Schaefer affects this whatsoever is if he, outside of any other person, can get it through John's head that as right as he is. And John deserves more money than he's getting 100%. He deserves these things. Yes, he ain't getting them because there's a piece of paper that means they don't have to and they're not going to give up that leverage. So the only way this changes is if it's Richard Chaper and all his vast experience can be like, hey, John, I know you want 30 mil. You're going to get like seven.

And that's how contracts work. It sucks. Maybe you should really make an effort to organize other fighters so you guys can do better. because like Chale said, when was the last time John Jones fought? I know the last person he fought was Dominic Reyes, and I know, because I wrote this this morning, that he fought him in February of last year. The UFC has not missed John Jones.

Would they like to have him? Sure. Would they like to have a super fight with, you know, Stipe or Francis or whatever? Yeah, sure. That is not going to be the difference maker for their bottom line. And so they don't care. If John wants to sit out and say, well, you know, I'm the best of all time.

And sure, maybe that's true. Some of that could be true. But like, his relevance really is, and he doesn't understand this because he doesn't have other things going on that people care about. He, you know, Paul Felder commentates and does. Like, he is just the best fighter we've ever seen. And the further away he gets from that, the less people care. Like, it's not, if he sits out another year waiting for this, I honestly can totally see a

super fight with Francis, like being a bit of a dud, at least from the expectations everyone has. Because John is low-key, never acted in a huge draw. He's been very competent, but not enormous. And the people are just like, who the hell is that? Wasn't he important, like, six years ago? I think the last time I saw him fight, he got whooped up on by a dude who's been colded in his last two fights.

So, yeah, he needs to strike while the iron's hot, and I don't think Roger Jafers helping this at all. That's my stance. I'll make one addendum though In the argument When we talk about an agreement that won't Make both of them both happy both both can live with I would say that yes the UFC will absolutely not do an agreement that they're not happy with

I meant in the sense that they will pretend to be unhappy with it Because anything short of all the money that joan jones And they could pay joan jones what he wants that this point, right? They just won't do it. They could. They still wouldn't be unhappy. But, yeah, that's just a small little addendum. Got to me, Bill, man. How do you think they're paying off W&E payments, huh? It's not by giving money to people. It's by holding it. All right. Last thing on this. So we have this deal. John Jones said earlier this week, he's willing to sit up for another year and keep building his body and training and getting

ready for this heavyweight debut. And then yesterday we find out that this deal with Schaefer is a done deal. And he's saying, you know what, maybe I will fight this year. And it looks like Derek Lewis is going to be next for Inganu, although I know people were referencing the Kevin Ioli interview, but there is, I mean, Dana never said like, they're fighting in August. They're fighting in Houston. He was like, we're thinking about this and we're thinking about this.

We never actually said like, this is 100% going to happen. He has said that he thinks Derek Lewis is the number one contender, but he's never like once said, this fight's a done deal. It's happening. So we don't know. At this point, Fernando, if I gave you $50, okay, if I handed you $50 and I said you had to put it on whether or not John Jones fights in 2021 or not, where are you putting the $50 bucks? Oh my God. 50 bucks goes a long way here in Mexico City.

So this is a very big decision. That he fights in 2021 and not necessarily in Ghana. Did he fights anybody this year? Okay. I'll say he does. Why? He fights somebody. Oh man you have tough questions

You have to give a reasoning for my statements What kind of show is this? This is not like my podcast Where I can just say things Well I gotta be careful enough handing you the 50 To be fair I say things a lot He never calls me on it Oh man I will say

What month is this? We're in June I say that there is still time for him to like Get a light heavyweight fight why would he get a light heavyweight fight though can i change my vote no i'll say joan jones doesn't fight this year i changed my 50 votes i told you i was going to be mad at this so much pressure that's why that's why i pressed i had to make sure you were caught you you you you were confident in your answer and you felt good about it so you're right no i never feel good about anything let's get that out of the way um no decisions of mine i've ever felt good about so

But yeah, so $50 he doesn't fight this year. Sorry. Jed, I am a lucky man because in my other pocket, I got another 50 bucks. Didn't think it was possible, but I got another 50. Same deal, my friend, 50 bucks. John Jones fights this year. John Jones doesn't fight this year. Where are you putting it?

You just got a hundred bucks walking around cash? Look at you go. Yeah, I'm going to say doesn't fight this year. I think it's, to me, it seems very obvious to John Jones. not fighting this year. He's definitely not fighting this summer. And so then the only way, honestly, I see this, and people are about to get super angry and that's fine. If Derek Rueh, Frances Inganu, I think we're going to suddenly see a John Jones. He's far less concerned with getting $30 million. And I don't say that because John Jones is afraid of Francis Inganu.

I think that that's just smart math. Like, fighting Francis Inganu is a legitimately challenging difficult thing that jeopardizes John Jones's entire legacy, right? Like, he holds so much weight on the nobody's ever actually beaten me. I'm the best ever. And if he goes and gets bolted, bolted, then all of that goes away. So, like, it's a very real concern. Even though I don't think he's afraid of him, I think he believes he can win that fight.

Like, it's just a risk-reward analysis in his head. That changes dramatically if Derek Lewis is your heavyweight, champion. One, that's the best thing that's happened to the sport in like four years. If Derek Frickin Lewis is the baddest man on the final, we probably peeped and we should probably just end the sport right there because it's at the best. But he watched Daniel Cormi just have absolutely zero issue with Derek Lewis. Sure, maybe Derek Lewis has gotten better since then.

I'm not even confident that that's true. But I just imagine that he goes, okay, maybe I'll take a pay cut. from what I think I deserve, because that's just so easy to win. And then once I'm champ champ, champ, John Jones, and really solidified my status as the king lion among the jungle or whatever trite, dumb shit he posts all the time, then I can try and negotiate from the position of having the belt instead of not. So the only way I think it happens is that Derek Lewis beats Franz Singano.

Otherwise, I think our boys hanging around until 2022. at which point he will finally cave because that's what John does. He stands very firm. He says lots of things that make him seem important, at least to himself. And then he's like, you know what? I guess I'll just go fight because everybody got to get paid at some point. And he needs to fight to earn a living. So no, he's not fighting this year.

I have to thank John Jones for keeping my screenshot game on points because that's what happens when you come to a website and you have to write about John Jones. have to screenshot his tweets before they get deleted and 95% of them get deleted. So we'll certainly I'll be keeping an eye on this whole thing. John's the best. Maybe he's just self-conscious about his typos. He's the only fighter.

We're like in a team slack. It's, oh, John's going again. Everybody like get ready. Like Connor will send like one or two and then that's it. John, if he sends one, he's sending seven and four of them at least are going away. Like it's the best. He's a miracle. I love how this round started with, this is a non-story.

I can't believe we're talking about this. And that was the most spirited round of all. But we're going to head to round four in a matter of moments. And the point for round three goes to Jed was on fire there. It's hard for me to ignore. So he gets the point. It's two to one. Thank goodness.

The other one, I will dispute with this one. Yeah. So in my lazy ways trying to get the show ready, I realize that there's like all these other topics that we could talk about. So we're just going to throw them all into like one round, a little pot-per-re style round here, a couple different topics. And you know what? I just decided this.

We're going to play a little game of buy or sell for the first couple of topics. And we're going to begin with some news that dropped last night. ESPN told or was told by Dana White. and we since confirmed this with sources ourselves. Max Holloway's next fight is booked. No, he's not fighting for the title. He's not fighting Justin Gaichi. That's the fight I wanted to see.

He's going to be fighting Yaira Rodriguez on July 17th, and Yairair has been out of action for almost two years. He will make the walk after a whereabout suspension with Usada. He's been dealing with some injuries. The last time we saw him was at UFC Boston and that fun fight with Jeremy Stevens. But, man, he gets a massive opportunity to his comeback fight in less than two months time. Jed. So seeing on social media, my friend, this was met with mixed reviews. Are you buying or selling this piece of business being the right call? Max Holloway

versus Yaira Rodriguez. I'm going to buy. I mean, if I's going to be dope, Max can beat the hell out of it. It's going to be awesome. It's not great business because it just turfs Yair again. And like, that's not it. But what is, Max can't sit around and wait. Like, I mean, he could. But that'd be boring to have him sit around for a half waiting for you know, Wokanovsky to run it back a third time. I'm with you. I would have

liked to see him make another run up up to a lightweight, but that's not what he wants to do. He wants to stay here. So, yeah, this fight's going to be awesome. I'll watch Max Holloway fight a broom. Like, I don't care. He's going to be exciting as hell. Yair is really

good at getting hit. So that's going to be great. Like, he's going to find a way to get hit a lot while trying to do some really wild stuff and it was really fun so yeah buy the hell out of this brand of buying or selling that this is the fight to make max hallway versus yai year i buy it i had exactly the same line of thinking as jad yesterday like yeah he's going to get hit a lot we know it but he's going to do it like in a cool way um so more stuff for his highlight reel i guess and honestly even

though there is a reason why i i guess it's open already right and he's already like a massive dog. I don't know betting or odds. It's just a very wild concept to me, but like, I think that's what's happening. And I've just owned up to not knowing a lot doing this little broadcast of ours, haven't. Okay, I'll figure that out later. But the whole thing is, I don't hate it for you, I year that much. Because I feel like it's a, if he was fighting Zabit, which, you know, the doomed fight that I don't think will ever happen. And now there's even talks of Zabit may be retiring. but there's a beat fight, I think, was a bad matchup for him, like, or, you know, a very risky one.

And losing that one would have been, like, just such a big blow to, to your stock. And then with Holloway, like, if you do win that fight, you just propelled yourself. I don't know how many spots, like obviously all the way up there, considering Max Holloway, is considered by many, which I think is unfair, the sort of moral champion. but he is obviously an extraordinary fighter. And the weird situation that, yeah, he pulls it off, like such a huge step on his career. And if he loses, there's really not that much of a shame

in losing to Max Holloway. He probably do it in a way that it looks really cool and might get him a bonus and might get him like more favors with the fans. Yeah, it's not, I think, in a position right now to be turning down fights in his career. career. So I buy it. I think it's good. And like Judd said, Max shouldn't be sitting around. So yeah, I'm totally fun with it. I like it. There may not be shame in Lose to Max Holloway, but there is head trauma. So I'm not confident that. Well, if we're going to use that argument,

I think we're now, all of our points are moot. Also, I'm changing my opinion. I'm going to take the roller coaster ride that my esteemed. did last round and say actually no the fight that you're supposed to make so I'm selling one because I really wanted yayae versus geiga to just kick like I'd like them to do the fight circus style no punching kicks only that would be the best and I'm going to re-bump the fight I've been calling for for I think two and a half years now and a lot of people are really going to not like it now but you just do max versus tony for the king of the angel wings And, you know, we can send him Tony off out of the sport because he needs to be used that.

And a Calvin Cater style ass beaten is maybe the thing that gets Tony to just walk away. So that's the fight that should be made. I'm selling now, Mike. Okay. Hey, listen. This is between the links and anything can happen. And I'm fine with the fight too because, one, it's a great opportunity for Yaya to come back to. And kind of like you guys both put it, there's not a lot.

to lose here. Like he can get, he could get bold stopped in two rounds. As Jed established, but nother than that. But look at maybe some liver quality. But look at Calvin Cater. Calvin Cater took one of the most vicious beatings you will ever see in a fight. And his stock rose. His stock actually rose after that fight, which is wild. And Yairaer potentially could could get a rub no matter what. So I like the fight. It's going to be exciting for however long it lasts. So just enjoy it. It's a pretty damn good. And you get it for free. You get on freaking ESPN Plus. So be happy with that as well. I do want to touch on Bellator 259, if we could, because there were a couple of big storylines that have come out of that event based on the numbers.

Like if you're into the business looking at numbers and what drives traffic, there were two pretty big stories, one of which started at the end of the night and the other started at the beginning of the main card. I don't think any of you even knew this question was coming, but I'm just going to throw it out there and you guys can banter amongst yourselves. But Fernando, Valerie Lareda suffered her first loss to Hanna Guy. And Lareda had a big moment early. She had a knockdown and then it became the Hanna Guy show. She has now become Casey Lydon's favorite fighter because of her dance moves. And I will give, and I think everyone should give Lerata this. She showed a lot of toughness, a lot of resiliency, but just wasn't enough. Hannah gets the win.

And Scott Coker talks to the media after and said, essentially, you know, talk to me when she's had 10, 11, 12 fights. Then we'll talk about stocks dropping or us being concerned about her career. So are you buying or selling that Bellator is not all that concerned about La Rada's latest performance? I'm, okay. The way of phrase that I have to think about it. I absolutely think that's a fair statement that, you know, you're taking a chance on a fighter

like Lareda, right? you're not giving her the benefit of really maturing outside of the public eye, which she, that's obviously a position she has thrived in so far. She has really embraced that. So I'm not even faulting them for that at all. And we know how Bellator goes about some of these buildups. So it's not surprising.

But that they're not concerned. I'm not buying it. Because obviously she has been one of the. those athletes that has gotten a bunch of attention from the get-go. Like, it's pretty obvious. I will say this since we're on this subject, because I see a lot of nonsense whenever, you know, Valerie Loretta is involved,

and I think a lot of people really rejoiced in the fact that she looked like a fighter who really was four fights into her professional and mimic career, right? who's also very young. So, you know, in many ways, there was absolutely a natural thing to happen, even though she also lost to an athlete who was early in her professional in a career. But the whole thing with Valerie,

I think she rubs a lot of people the wrong way because she's extremely confident and she has that sort of like huge attitude. And because she, you know, she's not afraid of posting sexy things, of dancing, of doing whatever it is that she wants to do, with her body and to which I say like just not be assholes about it it's her body if you don't want to look at it just like turn the other way you're not to you don't need to follow her in social

media I just think it's an insane thing that we're you know in a sport and in a world that sexualizes women's body so much and sexualizes women's presence is so much you know we're so cool with objectifying women all the time but the minute that a woman takes ownership of her body and of her sexuality. We have a problem with that. She's overstepping. We saw the whole thing with PVZ and we see it again with Valerie Lurata. And I just wanted to get that out in the universe. And yes, I understand what a lot of people are going to say. And they're going to be mad at me and they're going to be like, she asked it upon herself because she said this and she thought she was the best. And you know what? A lot of fighters have to believe they're the best,

first of all, to do this fucking insane job that they do. And second of all, a lot of male fighters to do that, get praised and get propelled and get put on pedestals and people think it's amazing that they have such confidence in big personalities, and we don't afford women fighters the same lectures. So I said my piece on this. Jed, do you want to answer this question right now? Oh, I mean, everything in a sense, right? Yeah, we live in a society that is tacitly misogynistic and we don't allow women to do things

that we praise men for. That sucks. It's nothing new, but like, it doesn't suck. I appreciate the solidarity there, Jen. On behalf of women everywhere. Yeah, I mean, you guys get the short end of the stick. I'm a white cis male from middle class America. Like, it's, that's just is what it is. Like, I don't have to deal with these problems. And that's very, very fortunate for me. So I can't, better or more eloquently. on that than Fernando could. I will say similar related here

but not for the reason you might think. I absolutely loved that Valerie Lareda lost. Not because I have any issues with her whatsoever. She seems cool. I'm happy with her, whatever. But because it only took us like three weeks for the Bellator rankings to show

how transparently dog shit they are because she lost in a guy who is, Valerie Relata is currently ranked number eight. in the Bellator Flyway rankings. She just got her ass beat by Hannah Guy who is ranked number nine. Way to go, Bellator. You guys did it again.

So it's fantastic. I love that we already, I don't think any of us took them seriously, but now we just, oh, they are as bad as the UFC rankings. Cool. Good to know. Plot twist. My fiance is part of the panel. Oh.

So I explicitly asked to not see the votes, because like I don't want to, I don't want that influencing me or my discourse in any way. So I'm ethical like that. I really don't know. I like to think, I like to think his votes are the best votes, but I cannot vouch for them because I have not seen. Yeah, I don't know. Reporting here, because if so, we're going to need him on this show to, uh, defend his position. Yeah, I don't know what's more, I don't know what's more crazy, the fact that Lareda didn't

drop or rise in the rankings, that she's ranked higher than Guy, or that Vanessa Porto is ranked below both of them right now. Yeah, that's the craziness. That is brilliant. I love it. Long time stalwart of the division. Very good record. Solid wins.

She's behind two people who barely have fought. She's unbelievable. I love Bellator. It is the best. But we'll stick with Bellator because let's talk about Chris Cyborg for a moment because she looked phenomenal against a very tough Leslie Smith. She defends her featherweight title successfully. Stop Smith finally in the final seconds.

And Cyborg kind of like Amanda Nunes when it comes to 145. She's starting to run out of options. She called out Katzengano. That fight makes sense. but you got to believe that Cyborg is going to be a massive favorite heading into that fight. And now looming in the background of this whole featherweight scenario with Cyborg and Amanda Nunes over at the UFC, we got Kayla Harrison, who is a little over six months away from becoming one of the biggest free agents in the history of the sport. So this isn't a buy-sell question, but more of a one-of-the-other-type question.

Six months is a long time, Jedmishu, and a lot can happen. Nunes has her next fight, book with Giuliana Pena for the 135-pound title. You know both Bellator and the UFC are going to come strong for Kayla Harrison when the PFL season ends as they should. And both probably won't waste time throwing her into a title fight, which they absolutely should. So right at this moment, Jedmishu, May 27th, Year of Our Lord, 2021, would you rather see Amanda Nunes versus Kayla Harrison or Chris Cyborg versus Kayla Harrison? Sideboard versus Kayla Harrison. Because I feel really confident that Amanda Nunes beats Kayla Harrison, as good as Kayla has looked and her pedigree and all of that.

The reality is she's still really young in her career. Amanda Nunes is still, I believe, at the peak of her powers. And I think that that's just a bridge too far across. Sideboard, I do not believe, is at the peak of her powers. I think, I mean, it took her five rounds to get Leslie Smith out of there. and I have all the respect in the world for Leslie Smith, but a couple of years ago they fought, and that fight went much quicker.

That's just, I think Cybor's lost her fastball, which is fine. She's been at the top of the sport for over a decade. You would expect some drop off. And because of that, I think it's a more competitive fight. Also, realistically, like, if she goes to Bellator, she can have that, and then I think we can still see Kayla Harrison,

in a year or two of Belator. One, there are more fights. Belator is more committed to building this division than the UFC ever has been. So there's more opportunity, more fights, a bigger variety there. And two, I think Kayla could put in a year or two in Belator put together some wins

should she manage to beat Cyborg, et cetera, and then transition over Allah, Michael Chandler, Eddie Alvarez, et cetera. I think there's just more opportunity if she goes to Belator first. I think if she goes to the UFC, she's gonna end up fighting a Amanda, win or lose, then she just fights a string of 135ers for the next few years before maybe then she cyborgs her way out and over to Bellator.

So I think she's going to go to Bellator, and that's actually where I'd prefer her to land. What do you think, Fernando? Would you rather see Nunes Harrison or Cyborg Harrison? Yeah. So I will agree with Chad. Realistically, I think that Bellator is a better fit for numerous reasons, and I think that that's a bigger possibility. and in a way I do think that the matchup with Cyborg is more interesting.

But I will disagree with one thing. I don't think that the fact that took Cyborg a little longer to get Leslie Smith out of there is necessarily a sign of decline. I think quite frankly that Cyborg is just a very intelligent fighter and that the loss to Amanda Nunes caused her to sort of readjust a few things. And to me, that's really a testament to her as an athlete, that at this point of her career, she's still open to sort of making adjustments

and that she's still, I don't know if I can say evolving. She's been at this for so long, but that she's still, she's being smart about what her body and her can do at this point. And she remains extremely athletic, as she also showed throughout those five rounds, because even though she was extremely. dominant, hitting people is very tiring. And she just again showed that she really is an athletic specimen. So I will slightly disagree with that.

So as much as I amort with everything, since the question is about want in your heart of hearts, my wanting is based on the fact that I'm an asshole. And I'm just so curious to see somebody, we've established this, I think, as a general concept throughout this hour and something was spent together. But I think the whole thing right now for me is like Amanda has looked so insanely dominant. And I'm not saying I wouldn't pick her in a fight against Kayla because I would. But just the physicality to me makes it intriguing. Kayla is a specimen.

She's like a big athlete. I've been around both of them in person and me, the standard for everything. I've I, she's just such a much bigger individual. And between that and just her athletic prowess and the fact that I don't really see her, having been through everything she's been in her career, being intimidated by Amanda at this point,

to me just makes it interesting. So selfishly as somebody who's like given up on the idea of anybody beating Amanda and who is almost given up on the trilogy with Valentina that yes, I still fight for, I'm going to go and say, that I would like the fight with Amanda just because I'm just such a dickhead

that I kind of want to see that Amanda might lose. My home girl, I love, I love Amanda. We're resilient. We stick together. But yeah, I'm just intrigued. Mike, I'm going to do something unprecedented in the history of this show.

You should give an end of the point. Because she, like me, stands the fact that Valentina Shavchenko is the one true Bannonweight champion and is the only chance of defeating Amanda Nunes at this current juncture and because she said that unprompted, go ahead and give me the point.

Did that count as a win, though? No, I want Mike's honest assessment. I will not take a given point. Oh, if you want to learn it. You're going to come on the show. That's not how the show works. Okay, so you want honestly, I'm going to give it to you. Okay, I think everyone who's watched a show from its, from its earliest iteration from episode one, knew what was going to happen here.

But it just so happened that whether, I think Jed played a smart move right now. I think he took off the gentleman's cap because he knew he wasn't going to win that round. He was losing one and two, even if he, even if he didn't lose that round, he would have lost it because we always go to the last round anyways. but I will say with full passion and honesty, Fernando, you will whooping up on Jen in that round. So the point is yours. We're going to the knock out round. I mean, whooping up, I just said she could get the point.

Tomatoes. A little of Colome, a little of Colette, Mike. There you go. There you go. But now we're going to head to the knock our round. One question will decide at all. I thought the Popery round went pretty good. And you know what?

I had one other topic. And I'm actually going to use that for the, final round because that's what I'm going with and I don't feel like thinking any further. So neither of the participants have any idea where this question is going. I have a feeling both will hate this question with a passion and that's why we're here. So it'll be a straight question, no tricks, no secret silliness, but each of these wonderful panelists will have 60 seconds to answer the question. Once that is done with the help of the live studio audience, we'll turn it over to the Honorable E. Casey Leiden, who will then announce the winner. So Jed,

there he is in the bottom right-hand corner of your screen with the guns-out, Suns-Out-Gunz-out look. Hey, Suns-Out-Gunz out-M-A media. So Jed, you are the man with the title belt. You have the champion's prerogative. You're going first. You're passing on over to Fernanda. I was more interested in going first until you said I'd hate this. So I'd rather think about how much I hate it for a minute before I have true spot. I'll take the second. Okay. Well, here we go, Fernando, because a big crossover story has recently gone all over the place

on the internet. And according to the CEO of Triller, Ryan Kavanaugh, according to Oscar Delahua, and according to one George St. Pierre himself, Triller wanted to book a boxing match between Oscar Delahoya and GSP. And apparently the good sport himself, Dana White, put the kibosh on that idea and said, thanks, but no thanks. You got Ben Ascran. You got your tires pumped, but no on GSP.

Of course, GSP is under contract with the UFC. So if he's fighting again, he's fighting inside the octagon. So sort of a two-part question to be answered in 60 seconds or less, Fernando. One, your thoughts on Dana saying no to this idea of GSP versus Delahoeia. and two, the question I really have, is Dana White doing GSP's legacy a favor by not allowing it to happen and having him box a former Olympic gold medalist,

former world champion in Delaware? One minute on the clock. Your time starts now. Okay. I guess the first of all, it's Betty, as I was going to swear again, but I will not. It's Betty, we all know it. I know the argument that everybody is going to have at this, right?

He's a businessman. He's doing what's good for his business. GSP won't fight for why would him go? Would he let him go fight for a rival? Like, he makes no sense. I agree with that to the extent that that is the reality of facts. I don't think that excuses it. GSP did enormous things for that company. He came back for a title again.

He established his legacy in MMA. And I feel like somebody who cherished that role that he had should have respected the GSP's wishes and let him fight. He's not going to come back. Oh, he won't come back for Habib, so he shouldn't come back for this. I don't like this. As protecting his legacy,

oh my God, I have 10 seconds. I don't think he would hurt his legacy to lose a fighting, boxing. I don't know how many years later. I just, and I don't know if he necessarily would lose. So no, I don't think the legacy was protected. All right. Good answer.

The music is really stressful. It's game. show esk. This is what we do here. We take this very, very seriously. My armpits are sweaty. Some mental warfare here, Jedmishu. So same question for you. We have Triller. We know you enjoy some triller. We get Delahoya. You have GSP. We have Dana White. What have you made of this whole thing? And ultimately, is this a good thing that Dana is not allowing GSP to go box a 52-year-old man, not from a dollars and cents place because it would have been a great payday for GSP,

but from a legacy perspective, is he doing GSP a favor by not allowing this to happen? So one minute on the clock, your time starts now. No, he's not doing him a favor because legacy don't pay bills, man. You know, it does cold hard cash. And GSP would have gotten a lot of that to box office in De La Jolla. More importantly, he's not doing any favor

because this would have been awesome. It was on this very program, Mike, where we talked about the trailer, Jake Paul, been asking and I'd poo-poohed it. I was like, man, I was poop-y-pants, wasn't fun. I slowly got excited about it, and then I went to the damn thing, and it's the most fun I've had in ages.

We talked a lot about how great, how ridiculous it was. This would have been like that to the next level, because you heard Oscar at the Triller Fight Club, you know kind of where he's at in his life, not giving any Fs at all. He's 50-some-odd years old, would have thought, I can come in here and work this dude who's never box. DSP would have taken it very seriously and tried to jab him. It's been fun as hell. And like, maybe it feels being,

probably doesn't win, but maybe he looks competitive. Either way, it would have been a spectacle. And that's what I'm here for. I'm here for the spectacles. And Dana and his curmudginness took it from me. That's all my trash.

Okay. All right. So we're going to let Casey gather himself. We'll see how the peeps are viewing this all. And I'm going to throw in some quick programming notes while this all occurs. First off, no UFC, no Bellator this weekend. That means no on to the next one this weekend because there's nothing to freaking matchmaking for that we would typically matchmaking for. So we'll be back Sunday, June 6th on that show following UFC Vegas 28. They're

putting a barn burner together, headline by Jarzino Rosenstrike and Augusto Sakai. Also, due to the long holiday weekend and also the fact that the HEC family is getting an adopted And then you say Augusta Sakai. What a legend you are, Mike. I was like, how was nobody reacting to what I'm just saying right now? Because it's so good. But we're getting an adopted dog on Monday. So what the heck's going to push back a day to Wednesday morning this coming weekend?

So the Tuesday. So one time thing, back to normal the following week. And then this show, nothing happens to this show next week. We'll be back on Thursday. So with that out of the way, let us turn it over to the Honorable Casey Liden to announce the winner in the individual. leaving the virtual BTL arena with the strap. And I feel like Casey's in an interesting position right now,

because not only is for himself, he's got the iconic voice of Esther Lynn probably in his ear as well. And if he doesn't make the right decision, at least according to her, this could affect his day-to-day life as well. Is he willing to put that all aside for the sake of honest rulings here? Casey, who got it done? This was tough.

Dang, this is tough. Oh, man. Okay, okay. I can't make a decision yet. Crap. Okay, okay. You're a winner. I don't like saying it.

And still, Jed Mishu. Jed Mishu! Gets it done. I was stressed out just waiting for that. But I had nothing to do with it. I had less pressure than literally anybody else, and I was totally. stressed out with that decision being read.

That was one heck of a debut performance from Ms. Bratos. Just one heck of a performance. Unfortunately, she does get the L. But I mean, just a great performance. Round of applause. Round of applause.

I feel like if we had... Go ahead. I said it when I came in that I wasn't really expecting anything. I just wanted to go all five rounds, have a valiant effort. So I'm I'm happy with this result. I had a worthy competitor.

I'm going to go back, talk to my team, adjust those, you know, tighten up those loose hands and come back better next time. There you go. You're like the Yohani and Jacek in this scenario against the Zhang Wei that is Jed Michoud, which is a fight of the decade. And I will say this,

if there is a BTL tag team tournament, I think Jed and Fernando would be a very formidable team. I think they'd be very tough to beat in this scenario. me in. Jed, you can speak more about that or perhaps maybe more about what's on your t-shirt and the big news from Fight Circus earlier this week. You have 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is you want. Good, bad, and different in the sport of mixed martial arts, floor is yours. First, I love the tag team idea. I'm not confident that I play well enough with others to be good at tag team this, but we should do that at some point. That seems awesome. But more importantly,

is back, baby! Fight Circus has a date. June 19th, they had to postpone Fight Circus three fisting for dollars because of COVID restrictions in Thailand. However, it is back June 19th. In your eyehole, it's going to be awesome. They're still going to have a phone booths, moitai fight. That is a Muay fight in a phone booth. It's exactly what it sounds like.

It's everything you could ever want. They're doing Siamese boxing. I'm going to tie two dudes together to then box two other dudes together. It's the best thing going in mixed martial arts. Like, it's really, it just is. There's no other way to put it. At some point, they're going to do something that is no longer acceptable. But for now, I'm going to watch Bob Salk and John Nutt coach a bunch of fighters with some random rules that we still aren't clear on.

And maybe the best thing about Fight Circus, the same. Secret bonus fights. They give you secret bonus fights that they don't promote beforehand. Just a happy little explosion of excitement that you weren't ready for. Fight circus three, baby. It's back. I mean, how can you not order right now? You just don't watch it.

What's the rule? What's the rule? What's the rule? Watch a fight circus? Don't use your business computer. Oh, don't use your business. Incognito mode is your friend. It is.

And have a driver's record. Like, have one of the other. I will, can I say one thing before we go, just to get it out of my conscience? My fiance was listening. He's not home. He was listening. He wanted to set the record straight that he has Valerie in 10th and Hannah Guy in the eighth.

He texted me to let me know. Good work. All right. Before we go. All right. Listen, we're not, we're not. It's just there. You know, we know there's many individuals involved, and there you go.

So he did it right, I guess. Hopefully Vanessa Porto is like in the top five somewhere, and we'll go from there. I know she hasn't had a Bellator fight yet, at least from my knowledge. But it's about to happen. But listen, listen, we're getting out of here. Thank you for watching and listening. Truly appreciate it. I do want to, I do want to shout out my beautiful wife, Holly.

Happy 9th anniversary, my dear. She is stuck with me for nine years. She deserves some sort of global prize. for that. No doubt about that. But until then, we'll see you next week. Right back here on Between the Links for Jed, Fernanda, for Casey. I am Mike Heck.

The iconic voice takes you out. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links. I'm Esther Lynn. You know this because I say my name every time I speak. Thanks for watching. Click like and subscribe and all that stuff. Follow me on TikTok. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Thank you.