MMA Fighting - Between the Links: What's Next For Derrick Lewis and Curtis Blaydes, Wonderboy Calls For Usman, UFC Vegas 20

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

Mike Heck hosts the BTL championship match between MMA Fighting's Jose Youngs and TheScore's Nick Baldwin as they react to Derrick Lewis' KO win over Curtis Blaydes at UFC Vegas 19 and discuss where both guys go from here, the big wins for Chris Daukaus, Tom Aspinall and Sergey Spivak, the likelihood of Stephen Thompson getting the next shot at Kamaru Usman, and a look ahead to UFC Vegas2 0 this Saturday. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow José Youngs: @JoseYoungs Follow Nick Baldwin: @NickBaldwinMMA Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now your host, Mike! It's great to have the iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcoming us to a brand new edition of Between the Links live here on MMAFighting.com. Hope you're all having a wonderful week as we are on the road to UFC 259, going down next Saturday, the go-home event, of course, UFC Vegas 20 going down this Saturday night

at the Apex in Las Vegas. We had a fun event this past Saturday, and even the Walterweight division in the UFC has gotten a bit more interesting since we last spoke, and we're going to get into all that. And much more this week, as always, we want to hear from all of you throughout the program, your thoughts on the certain topics we discuss,

how you score these rounds. Let us know in the live chat, and we'll get the best ones up on the screen. But let's get right after this. thing. The BTL title is officially on the line. Here are the competitors first. And as we have seen in this crazy sport of ours over the last year, anything can happen. Sometimes last minute heading into a matchup. And that is what's happening here. Brian Kelleher was scheduled to be the challenger. He couldn't make it. So stepping in on super short notice from the score,

Mr. Nick Baldwin. Nick, how are you, sir? Thank you for stepping in and saving the day, kind, sir. I'm doing good. Thank you, Mike, for having me. I appreciate it. I'm not a fighter, but I guess I can bring something to say, well, I'm not sure what that is, but we'll figure it out. Thanks again for having me and looking forward to this. Absolutely. And introducing the brand new BTL champion once again, he's back with the belt around his waist. He put an end to the reign of Josh Gross last week in a spirited battle from MMAFighting.com, the host of the A-side lap chat and much more Mr. Jose Young. How are you, champ? Oh, you know, just another glorious day here. And sunny, beautiful Phoenix. I don't even remember what snow is like. I'll let you Canadians and New Englanders remind me what that's like. But Brian Keller obviously forgot his crystals.

It is what it is. I'm not going to fault the man. I, of course, have gone into battle many times without my crystal and have felt the wrath of the crystallist fight. So I can't blame him for that. He can come get this whenever he wants. So last week, I beat up on Josh Gross, the OG, of the M.E. a media game.

If you got to drag some other body out and I have to beat the new generation two, so be it. But it is what it is, as one Max Holloway said. There you go. A lot of support for Jose thus far. But let's get right into this thing. Let us discuss the heavyweight division in the UFC because it was on full display last

week. It'll be on display this weekend as well and next month with the title on the line. But let's focus on UFC Vegas 19 and Derek Lewis's incredible. ferocious and absolutely vicious knockout of Curtis Blades in the main event. After a really strong opening round from Curtis Blades, Lewis delivers one of the nastiest knockouts you will ever see in the second round coming through with the biggest main event upset in the UFC. It says Michael Bisbing became the UFC middleweight champion at UFC 199,

knocking out Luke Rockhold. So Nick, we're going to begin with you, kind, sir. Nice and easy. Your reaction to a massive win for Derek Lewis less than a week ago. I'm surprised. Surprise, I guess, is where I would start. I picked Curtis Blades. I thought he would be able to at least take down Derek Lewis enough to win the fight, and lo and lo and behold, he didn't take him down at all. So that was probably actually the biggest surprise about the fight. What wasn't surprising that Derek Lewis won after being down in the first round, after losing that second round, Blades was doing really well on the feet, and then Derek Lewis just did what Derek Lewis does. Big uppercut, and that was the fight. So relatively shocking, shocking results. in the sense that Derek Lewis won. I was fairly confident that Blades would get it done, but not so surprising that Derek Lewis got another highlight, real knockout.

Jose, we kind of got your instant reaction after the fight on Saturday on the post-fight show. I know you've talked about on the A side, but now that you've had some time to let it all sink in and you've spoken about it on different platforms, how big was this win for Derek Lewis in the grand scheme of things at heavyweight? I mean, anytime you win in the top five, especially when the heavy white title is only is within less than a month of your big victory. It's a big thing.

I just think Derek Lewis is one of those fighters that he said it himself like the title is great, but he's fighting for that paycheck. He got the bonus. He got both of his paychecks. He's back in Texas, which is obviously still reeling from the massive blizzard. So I'm sure he's going to do great things with that. We saw what he did when the hurricane happened.

He was driving around saving people. So for a normal fighter, getting this big win on a big platform so close to not just the title fight, but probably another contender fight with Garsigno, Rosenstrike, and Cyril Gond. They're going to be like, oh, this is great for my career. I'm looking at it from the perspective of Derek Lewis where, awesome, I got both of my paychecks and $50,000 more. So, yeah, massive night for the Black Beast. Again, prize fighters, Derek Lewis has proved to be one of the most reliable prize

fighters on the UFC roster. So, yeah, 10 out of 10 performance across the board from the heavyweight contender. to sort of build upon that Jose is it time to look at Derek Lewis as not just like a fun you know prize fighter but a serious threat to the title it's not like he wasn't before but people always view Derek is this you know fun follow on social media this hilarious guy this quote machine who can land a knockout at any point of a fight doesn't watch the sport at all outside of his fight weeks doesn't really care about titles but it seems like he's putting it all together now I know he's added some pieces to his team.

You saw Lauren Murphy's husband, Joe in his corner, who is an excellent jiu-jitsu coach and practitioner in his own right? Is it time to stop looking at Derek Lewis as the funny guy with the best social media game outside of Darren Till? And Moore is a legit threat to Steep Abe, Francis Ngano, John Jones, whoever is in this division? I would say Derek Lewis is already the best Twitter follow. Darren Till is chasing Derek Lewis at this point because Derek Lewis is winning, fighting, and being funny. Darren Till is only doing one of those things.

So I would say Derek Lewis, of course you have to take him seriously. If he touches your jaw, you have to take him seriously because you're probably not going to remember one after the referee pulls him off of you. So I don't know the answer to this because we haven't seen. We don't know. We don't know. That's like saying, oh, Francis and Ghanu is putting together all of this team to make him a complete fighter. All of his fights are like less than two minutes long, so we just don't know.

for all we know, Derek Lewis is the best Gogolpola practitioner in all of the UFC. We're just never going to see it because the second he touches you, you die. So TBD, if you fight someone like Stepe, that is obviously a master game planner, I think that's better,

that'll be a better gauge of Derek Lewis's skills. Because we've seen him fight Daniel Cormney, who is the definition of a complete mixed martial artist, and that wasn't a great night for Derek Lewis. Yes, he took that fight on like, real short notice too. It was a month after he got that beat down. He did win, but let's not forget,

Volkov put it on Derek Lewis until again, Derek Lewis touched his jaw and killed a man on live television. So, yeah, I don't know. TBD, I'll say. I know that's a cop-out, but I don't think anyone knows. So I think everyone will agree with me. What do you think, Nick? Are you going to cop out the same way?

Or do you look at Derek Lewis? Have you seen enough evidence to prove that Derek Lewis is, in fact, a legit threat, a very scary guy for the Ingannos and the Miochitz's and the John Joneses of the world right now. I mean, how can you not? Like, this is a guy that no one ever thought Derek Lewis would sort of be that number one or number two ranked heavyweight in the world. But this win really does catapult him into that category of the heavyweight elite.

Like, I don't know if I really considered him an elite heavyweight, the best of the best, before he knocked out Blades. But Blades was in that category himself. before this past weekend. And I think Derek Lewis has finally sort of cemented himself as one of the best heavy weights on the planet. He might not all, his performances might not always be the prettiest. He might be, he might be down.

He might be losing. But he finds a way to win and he's beating some top guys. We have to start considering this guy a real threat in the division, not just because, because of his power. If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, Lewis just had one punch, KO. Power and sort of a puncher's chance, he wouldn't hold the UFC knockout win record in history. And so you got to start looking at this guy as a guy that can really beat almost everybody in the Heavyweight Division.

So what do we do with Derek Lewis now, Nick Baldwin? I mean, there's this log jam up the top of this division. We've got the title fight coming up on March 27. John Jones is the looming factor. Do we do the winner of the fight this weekend between Jarsina and Cyril Gone? is it Overeem? Because both guys seem to watch that fight. Could it be the winner of Steve A versus Inganu?

If John Jones isn't ready, if he doesn't feel like he's bulked up enough or he can't come to financial agreements or terms of the UFC, like what do you think is next for Derek Lewis? Well, first of all, I hate the Overeem fight. Like, not just because it doesn't make sense at all on paper, but Overeem is, what, like 41, 42.

He should just retire. He should ride off into the sunset, call it a career. He doesn't need to be fighting Derek Lewis right now. And then the whole idea of that, Derek Lewis wants to fight Alice Roehring, given what he wants. Like, I just, it doesn't appeal to me really because Overeign is clearly past his prime. He's clearly towards the end of his career. And Derek Lewis is at the absolute peak right now.

I don't like that for really either, man. But I suppose if Derek Lewis wants it, if Alice Overeign wants it, I guess you could do it. But I think you do Derek Lewis versus the winner of this weekend's main event. He's not getting a title shot with John Jones coming up to fight the winner of SEPA and Nagano, too. if John Jones wasn't in the picture, I think Derek Lewis would deserve a title shot. I think you do give him the winner of Ingonu and Stipe, but we know that's not going to happen,

so he might as well get one more in, and the winner of this weekend's main event between Rose and Strait and Gond makes a lot of sense. Jose, what are we doing with Derek Lewis here? I mean, I don't think there's really a wrong answer with what this division looks like right now, but what are you doing with him if you had the magic pencil? Again, I'm going to look at it from the,

perspective of the man who's going to get the paycheck and is going to be the one that is going to be getting in a fist fight. I'm never going to be the one to tell someone to retire, or especially a UFC fighter to retire, especially someone like Al Strovring. Because, yeah, he lost to Alexander Volkov, who is one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Like, I know he's relatively new to the UFC over the last few years. Former Bellator contender champ and all that stuff beat Al Strovrim. And Al Stover, he was on a two-fight win streak at that point. So, yeah, he got knocked out in the UFC heavyweight division. Water is wet.

The sky is above us. Clouds are in the air. These are just all things that happen. If Derek Lewis is hell bent on fighting Alsteroverine, fine. That's a paycheck for both men. Great. They're prize fighters. The beef is there.

If he really just wants to knock out Curtis Blades and Alsteroverin, two guys that talk a whole lot of greasiness before they stepped in there and again, got touched by Derek Lewis. So be it. That's a nice easy paycheck for Derek Lewis, because, again, I would favor Derek Lewis, Alstroverim. Though Walt Harris, he did show Alstrovine did show he had a pretty solid chin against Walt Harris and Augusto Sakai. And even going into the Volkov fight, kind of the narrative was Alsterovim has looked better than ever. Yeah, he can survive these onslaughts of strikes.

And then he just got his nose shattered than the first 30 seconds against Volkov and didn't survive. So if they want the most money and the biggest fight and the fight that will probably draw the most attention internationally, if Derek Lewis even cares about that, it's Derek Lewis versus Alstroven. If he wants to stay moving forward, it's the winner of Cyril Gaon, or Giorzina Rosenzrik versus Cyril Gond.

If John Jones wasn't there, he'd obviously probably fight the winner of Stipe Amiotr's in France and Gano. Or if they just want to make John Jones versus Derek Lewis, that's fine too. But again, Derek Lewis is not a guy that really cares at this point. like who he fights. He wants that paycheck. Like he fought Eler Latifi. And who, what plan

to that fight makes sense when that happened? He still just did it because it was a fight and he wanted to get that paycheck and fight in Houston. So my answer is whatever Derek Lewis wants is what Derek Lewis can have because he's the man of the hour right now. The Black Beast right now has one fight left in his current deal. I assume he'll be cashing in on that in a big way. But the other side of this equation,

and Curtis Blades also has one fight left on his deal after this fight, Jose. He's in a really interesting spot right now because with that loss, and it's unfortunate based on his overall resume, but he's going to take a big step back in the title picture. The guy is obviously super talented, no question about that. Probably the more complete fighter than Derek Lewis, if we're being honest at this point in their careers. But so I guess like kind of a two-parter to wrap up this round, Jose.

One, where does Curtis Blades go from here? and if you had to guess, once Blades takes some time, has this last fight on his deal, win or lose, do you think come 2022 Curtis Blades is still a UFC heavyweight? I do. I do think he'll still be a UFC heavyweight because he's lost to two people, Francis Inganu and Derek Lewis. And again, those guys, they have what we call the touch of death where, again, you get touched by them in the jaw when their fist is moving at a rapid pace.

you're probably not going to remember the rest of the night. So, yes, I do believe Curtis Blaze will be back. If he does it, if he wants to test the waters of free agency, I am 100% in favor of that. I think a year ago, I would be 100% Curtis, not even a year ago, six months ago, I would be 100% Curtis Blaze will be back. But I didn't expect Rumble Johnson be gone. I didn't expect Romero to be gone.

I kind of had a sense Anthony Pettis was on his way out when he was taking all those fights that I kind of took everyone by surprise. I thought he was really trying to fight out his contract. but Kurz Blade striking me as someone who wants to make a lot of money, so that will be his priority too. He's very competitive. The best fights are going to be in the UFC heavyweight division. The Bellator Heavyweight Division is fun too, but it's just not.

It doesn't have the same top five, top 10, where everyone is a killer in that division. Plus, he's super young. We just saw a bunch of young heavyweights win. So the future is bright for that division, as Jir Zina Rosestrick said on Virtual Media Day today. So yes, he will be back. And who should he fight next? I don't know. He's pretty much fought everyone already, or he's lost to everyone in the top ten.

So he'll probably, like, who is it? Sergei Pavlovich, maybe. He's kind of out of it unless they really want. I don't see he wants to fight way back and unranked, like a Spivak or who else, who just won, Aspinall maybe, but I don't know. But he'll be back, I think. I think we have a few of these fights coming up, like the Rosen Street-Gon fight needs to happen. Maybe he fights the loser of that.

Maybe he fights the loser of Miyochic and Inganu. probably not in Ghana because he's 0 and 2. So as I always say, a few of these fights need to shake out first before we can really start fantasy matchmaking. Shada, I think it was bunch flood watching the program taking a break from giving out COVID vaccines. There it is. Well done. Thank you for that and thank you for watching. What do you think, Nick?

Because like we said, rankings are one thing, but like realistic positioning in a division is a totally different thing, especially in this division with titles and the Johnson. Jones Factor. What do you do with Curtis Blades? And after this next fight, do you think he moves on to other pastures, so to speak? Well, in terms of his next fight, I think it probably makes sense for him to fight the loser of this weekend's main event.

Kind of just do January, February 20th, winners and losers versus, you know, February 27th winners and losers. I think if Rosenstray fall short or if gain, I think that would make a lot of sense. And it'd be a fun fight. in terms of whether or not Blades is going to be on the UFC roster come 2022, I think it depends on his next fight.

I think if he loses, there's a real good chance that the answer is he won't be. He'll be in Bellator or signing on with PFL for the next season or something else. I think Dana White would just look at another Blade's loss as an easy way to sort of let him go and let him go on to somewhere else where he is better liked, I suppose. If he wins, I think it'll be a kind of tough call to make. I think Dana and the UFC will probably lean towards keeping him, but I wouldn't count out the possibility of him leaving after one more fight regardless of if he wins or not.

Her display just isn't a guy the UFC is really looking to push. He's been outspoken about fighter pay in the past year. He's been very outspoken about not really wanting to engage on the feet with people. His bread and butter is wrestling, so we'll stick with that. For what it's worth, I don't blame him. I think that's brilliant. But it's not going to make you, you know, this fan favorite fighter, so to speak. So I think Blades will still be on the roster because I think he probably wins his next fight

because he's still a top five headweight in the UFC. But if he does find a way, you know, somehow loses, that could be it for Curtis Blades in the UFC. I really do think so. Yeah, I could definitely see Blades. I think it's honestly, I think it's 50-50. I mean, that's kind of a cop-out answer. or lose. But if Seral Gan loses on Saturday, I hate the idea of Blades fighting Cyril Gan like coming off of a loss because, I mean, you could completely just stunt Gahn's growth

altogether and just stop it right in its tracks. You don't want to do that. But I get it. Heavyweight's very interesting right now. Look at it a year, two years ago. It was not this fun to talk about. But here we are after a big win from Derek Lewis. This is going to be a story to certainly keep an eye on. Massive win for Lewis. Amazing stuff for him. More on the heavyweight division. UFC Vegas 19 coming up in a matter of moments. But the point for round one goes to the champ. Jose Young's on the board. Very close round.

Very close round. But let us take a look at the other heavyweight up-and-comers who had big wins this past Saturday. First fight at the night, we had Sergey Speedback, dominating Jared Van Derry, put some away in round two. And we saw Tom Aspinall submit Andre Arlofski in the second round. on the main card. And then Chris Dawkus is now a top 10 UFC heavyweight after a first round stoppage win over

Alexio Lennox. So Jose would begin with you. Who impressed you the most out of these three gentlemen? You're muted. I think obviously if the question is like who was the biggest winner, it's obviously Dawkins. But who impressed me the most was probably Aspinall? Because that first fight, like he was obviously quicker.

And And Andrei Lossby was clearly trying to figure it out, use his veterans. and wherewithal to kind of get an opening to this new rookie that was in attendance for one of his fights overseas. So yeah, that's obviously a big deal too. But man, that blast double leg that he hit on Andre Arlowski, caught Andre Arlowski off guard because he made the fullest mistake of turning into the fence to try and get up. And Aspinall did, again, fought like a pure veteran as opposed to someone who's had less than five fights in the UFC, snatched up that neck and choked him.

And And Ander Arlowski immediately knew the mistakes he made and was so mad at the, himself shook Aspinall's hand and said, hey, you beat me fair and square and this and that. So I think if the question is who was the biggest winner, it's obviously Chris Dawkins, because any time you go from unranked to ranked, that's a massive story. But Tom Aspinall, man, also, because let's not forget, for years, the whole narrative was people from England can't wrestle, people from England can't grapple, people can't do this and that. They're only boxers or kickboxers. And when you hit a blast double leg like that against someone who is old enough to be your dad

and then choke them out and then tap them. Yeah. Tom Aspinall blew me away on Saturday night. Agree or you go in another direction, Nick Baldwin? I would love to disagree, but I can't. I'm going Tom Aspinall as well. I think it comes down to the fact that he submitted Andre Arlowski, became only the second man after Josh Burnett to beat him via that method.

We're just sort of TKOing Olinic. I mean, it was an impressive win from Chris Dawkins, absolutely, and probably he gained the most. most compared to Aspinall, but that is how you beat Olinic. He's lost like that many times before, especially recently, as he sort of is getting towards the end of his career. So I think Tom Aspinall showed more tools. I think he showed a bit more upside in the sense that, you know, three or a couple of years

down the road, I think we're going to be talking a bit more about Tom Aspinall than we will about Chris Dawkins. So I'm going to Tom Aspinall, but they both were really good performances. So moving forward, Mr. Baldwin, a very popular piece of matchmaking, at least fantasy matchmaking coming out of this past Saturday is, you know what? Let's just throw Doccas and Aspinall in there right now. It's time. There are other folks against this idea. And we got three like up and coming heavyweights who had big wins and big performances coming out the same card.

Would you do Doccas versus Aspinall now? Or would you wait until they're a little bit close to a title fight? Like how would you matchmake the heavyweight division? with these three gentlemen. First of all, I agree with Luke, the comment there that Jose should have a point deducted because of his mic thing off the top. But that's another story. In terms of the matchup between Aspidol and Dawkes, I wouldn't hate it, to be honest.

I don't mind pairing two prospects up against each other, seeing which one is sort of the better man at that point, seeing which one can, you know, the UFC should build up and look to promote and push towards the top of the division. but heavyweight needs prospects. Mike, you mentioned how the heavyweight division is better than it is right now than it was a few years ago, and I absolutely agree. But there still isn't beyond the top seven or so there's still not a ton to like in the 8 to 15 range. And of course, beyond that. So I think killing off a guy like Tom Asmel or Chris Dawkins right now would be a bad idea.

Those guys are kind of like the two heavy prospects we're thinking of right now in the UFC. I think you've got to keep them both going, give them veterans. I don't love the sort of idea, oh, let's throw washed up JDS to one of them and let Jadis get knocked out again. That's just sad to me. I don't want to see that. I would prefer like a matchup, kind of like the Marche-Marcin, Marcia Tibera sort of fight, Sergei Pavlovich, that kind of range. A guy in the top 10 to top 15, but not a legend that is almost at retirement. I don't think that's a good idea either.

What's say you, Jose, are we doing doc? Haspinall or do you have a different directions for these gentlemen? I mean, I like that fight as a high level martial arts competition, but I don't think Chris Dawkes would take that fight anyway because he's pretty gung-ho on fighting someone ahead of him. Obviously, Tom Aspernel will take that fight to fight someone in the top 10 right now. He's, he just looks physically bigger than Dawkins to. We were all saying, like, we think Dawkins could even fight a light heavyweight if he really

put his mind to it and cut down all that weight. Don't know how viable that is when you have a full-time job as a police officer. and you're protecting your neighborhoods and communities, you know, getting shot at, like he said, at one of his media days. So who would I match him up with? Maybe Blagoi Ivanov. I knew Marching Toberra has a fight coming up. Walt Harris maybe. I know Tom Aspinall called out Sergei Spivak on Fight Island, and we were all very confused by it.

He said they had both agreed to fight before. The fights had fallen out. They ended up getting booked on the same car, but not against each other. They both had really impressive performances to the point where we're here on between the links. arguing over who had the most impressive performance. So if they want to do Aspinall Spivak, I think Spivak's not quite a prospect anymore. Aspinall is one more win. I don't think he can be considered a prospect anymore either.

So maybe that fight. Other than that, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Again, the UFC Division has to have a lot of these fights coming out. But this whole narrative, I don't want to give him a heavyweight that's going out. That's going to be retiring soon and kind of going out. they're already one foot out the door. That's the name in the game, man.

You put someone over before you're out the door, before you move on to the next territory. If you want to go from the WWF, back to Smoky Mountain Wrestling in the 1980s, you got to put over the guy's champion, and then you move on. So, yeah, if they want to do JDS versus Dawkins before JDS retires, so be it,

because that's what that, again, it's the tale is oldest time. You want, of course, everyone wanted Kernangle to wrestle John Cena in his last match. Instead, he went out and put over Baron Corbyn. So there you go. Do the professional wrestling route. Chris Dawkes, JDS.

I think JDS has a real good chance to win in that fight because he is a legitimate heavyway. Doc's just quick. He's not that big. I just like that fight as a martial arts competition regardless. Because look at everyone else that JDS has lost to. Curtis Blades, Cyril Gahn, Francis and Gano. Where are they? What are they doing right now?

They're all fighting for a title and fighting for a number one contender spot. So if they want to do that with Doc is great. and then they can do spav-pa-pa-la-spiv-v-vis spiv-ac versus aspiral two i'm all about it wow the uh the piped-in round of applause uh so obviously those performances all the heavyweights stuck out on saturday nick let me start with you here what other performance from ufc vegas 19 needs to get a little more shine a little more love what one that's just not getting the the credit it deserves based on this this heavyweight you know just all this heavyweight madness coming out of that event. Well, I was really impressed with Derek Minner's win over Charles Rosa.

I thought that was an incredible win. He dominated Rosa on the ground for three rounds, a very, very lopsided win, very easy win for him. And this is a guy that needed it. He was coming off, I believe a loss, but he might have been coming off one. I don't remember at this point. But he hadn't really had like a breakthrough performance in his UFC crew thus far. And I think this is what that was.

Charles Rosa is a very respected featherweight. He's been around for a long time. And he has some decent wins himself. But Derek Minner just put the wood chipper on him, so to speak. This guy looked really good. I think teaming up with James Krause at Glory MMA and Fitness, I think it has been doing wonders for him. Apparently, this was his first camp and fight with that team.

So I'm all of a sudden kind of on the Derek Minner train. I think this guy can do some big things in the featherweight division. Jose, what's your under the radar, I guess, 10th player award winner from UFC Vegas 19? John Castaneda, man, or John Castagnato, however you want to pronounce it, if you want to angloize it or whatever. I mean, any time you beat someone of Eddie Weiland's stature, like, we're all talking about, oh, if Eddie Weiland has an impressive performance and loses, is it enough to hang up? We were talking about if he wins, will he want to retire on a victory like Ricardo Lamas? but man, John Castagnata loses to Nathaniel Wood

and he, like, pretty dominantly, and then he goes out there and has to fight Eddie Weiland who's looking to be erased the Sugar Sean fight, and he unloads like a picture-perfect combination. It was like a video game. It's like you're doing like a fight-night video game where it's like, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, against the fence.

And all of a sudden Eddie Weinland with his old style mustache and street boxing style stance, all of a sudden, his eyes are in the back of his head and he's unconscious before his butt touches the canvas. So, yeah, John Constiata, pretty much blew me away, mostly because everyone else was praising the heavyweights and Julian Orozah with a flying knee, Yonz Gouni's guy moving up in the band-oamweight division.

And normally is talking about John Consignata's performance, so I did it for him. Congratulations, John. Tremendous performance. Yes, big win for sexy maxi. Absolutely. It was a fun event for sure. Saw some good stoppages, some good fights. We'll look ahead to this Saturday and how it affects the heavyweight division in round four.

but the point for round two will go to Nicholas Baldwin. He's on the board. It's tied up one to one. The muting bike, you know, kind of knocked you down at first, and then Nick just kind of brought the heat the rest of the way. But let us go back to Tuesday here on MMAfighting.com on the latest episode of what the heck. It dropped and it kicked off with a very interesting interview

with the nicest M-Effert champion, Stephen Wonderboy Thompson. Now, as we know, Wonderboy isn't necessarily the call-o type. However, comes on the show, and he shoots his shot. Calls for Kamar Usman. He wants the next shot at the Walterway title. Usman calls for Mazadol after his win over Gilbert Burns. We talked about that last week on the program. Since then, Usman has said, you know what?

Not feeling that generous anymore. Anybody can get the next shot. and there are reports out there that the fight between Usen and Masdahl is the front runner still to this point, but there has been a lot of support for Wonderboy in the fan community getting the shot because it's a fresh matchup.

He's the only guy in the top five that Usman hasn't fought or beat. And Wonderboy is saying, hey, you know what? Fight somebody you haven't fought before. Give me the shot. So Nick, we're going to start with you. What are your thoughts on Wonderboy's idea? Does Stephen Thompson have a point?

He absolutely does. I think with the Walter Wade climate as it stands, you have to shoot your shot. This is a guy that has fought for the title before. He's one of the best in the division still. And it's a first matchup, as you said, Mike. I think there isn't a clear cut next challenger for Usman, as we've sort of been talking about as the landscape is sitting right now. Jorge Mazfadol, it sounds like he'll get the title shot,

but he's coming off to Usman. I don't like that match up at all. There's no need to run it back this soon. Colby Covington only has one win since getting knocked out by Usman. Leon Edwards hasn't fought for almost two years. So why not shoot your shot? It's not a far-fetched idea. And personally, I love the matchup.

I think this is one of the most intriguing fights for Usman. I don't know if when they actually get into the cage, if it's the most competitive matchup for Usman, I would still lean towards the champion. But in terms of how they pair up on paper, Wonderboy's unorthodox striking style, his stance, I think could give the Nigerian nightmares some problems, whereas a fight with Colby Cunnington probably goes similarly

to how it played out in 2019. So I give Wonderboy credit for calling a shot. I think it makes sense. I don't think it'll happen because I don't think the UFC's invested in that matchup per se, but I don't blame Wonderboy for trying whatsoever. I think it's actually a smart thing to do. Why not? BTF is record in front of a live studio audience.

What do you think, Jose, is Wonderboy bringing a compelling argument to the table here? Yeah, I mean, the argument is he's been active, the others haven't, Uzman's fought everyone else, and he's the highest ranked fighter that Kamar Usman hasn't fought. That's the story right there. Also, Stephen Thompson is still on the other side, on the, he's not quite 40 yet, but he's getting up there in age. I would like to see Stephen Thompson get at least one more shot at the belt before he hangs it up for good.

And I understand Kamara Usman calling out Jorge Mazurah, because, again, I would favor Kamar Usman against Jorge Mazuadol. I think Kamar Usman knows he can beat Jorge Mazdaul every single time. And he wants that lottery ticket, man. They're prize fighters. I mean, if Jorge Mosul goes out there loses to Colby Covington, that just completely lowers his stock. And I think to Kamar Uzman,

Jorge Monsid all presents the lowest risk and the highest reward. We saw the Stephen Thompson fights against Tyron Woodley and the first one was great, but the second one was so ill-received that people got mad at Tyron Woodley for how he fought against Stephen Thompson. And he won, and he was the champion.

Colby Covington, the fight's always going to be there. It's one of the best welterweight title fights I have ever seen. So if they want to do Colby Covington versus Leon the winner of Leon Edwards, Bala, Muhammad, that's fine too. probably not going to happen, but I completely understand the fan support behind Stephen Thompson. I am there right there with them. I think 10 years ago, 10, 12 years ago, we would be previewing Kamar Usman versus Stephen Thompson

because remember when they made Brock Lesnar versus Frankmere 3 and then they canceled it because Dana White said the fans didn't want it. Yeah, 10, 12 years ago, Dana White's listening to the fans. But as I've said a thousand times, usually don't want to make fights. that makes sense. They want to make the fights that are big spectacles that make a lot of money, which is completely fine because everyone wants, it's a money-making business. They're all prize fighters.

It just kind of hurts the fighters like Stephen Thompson that aren't going to go out there and talk all that graciness and all that stuff. So don't blame the UFC if they want to make Kamar Uzman v. Horace-Mazol because, of course, that's the biggest drawing power. I think Kobe Covington is the most competitive. But the fight that makes sense and it's the right fight to make is Stephen Thompson. And so Kumar Usman basically has the choice of three, maybe four if Leon Edwards wins. So, yeah, they're all fighting for a shot with the champion.

Kumar Usman is pretty much just throw a name, throw a dart at a board with names on it, fight that guy, and there's a compelling argument for any of them. It's a much better position than he was in, like last summer, right? It's coming off the win over Mazadol. It was short notice. Everyone was giving Mazadol props for cutting the weight and taking the fight on six days notice. Usman wasn't getting any shine, got booed mercifully from the fans for the performance that he had because he was foot stomping and all this stuff. But a win is a win and that's what happened.

So, Nick, you sort of touch on it. I understand and even Wonderboy understands that the better box office draw for this division and for the UFC is obviously Usman versus Mazadol. But putting the fan hat on, what fight would you rather see? Is it Usen Mazadol? Is it Usman, Mozadol? Is it Usman Covington 2? Usman Wonderboy, Uzman Kiesa, Uzman Leon,

like Uzman versus anybody. What do you think? My personal preference, which maybe isn't a personal preference to a lot of people, but it's the Edwards fight if Edwards gets past Blal. I know it doesn't,

it would barely seem like Leon would deserve it because he hasn't fought in almost two years and Bilal Mohammed's rank like number 13th in the division. But, I mean, people kind of thought Leon Edwards should have gotten a title shot back when he fought RDA seems less and less impressive as RDA sort of is now in the lightweight division, lost

some more at Waltway. But I mean, people were calling for Leon to get a title shot at that point two years ago. I don't think a layoff should change it that much when there isn't a clear-cut contender. If Edwards beats Muhammad, that's the fight to make for me. And then the Wonderboy matchup is right number two for me. I mean, when there are matchups that haven't happened or at least haven't happened for a while, I'm always going to prioritize those fights. I'm talking about Edwards and Wonderboy rather than the Covington and Masl

fights, which we've seen in the past two years in which the Covington fight would be interesting to see. I like that, but I have no problem if Colby needs one more win. I think that's fine. And then as I said, again, the Mazel fight, I have no interest really in that at all. I didn't, I mean, the first fight wasn't that enjoyable. It wasn't, you know, competitive really. I think Masvidol should get at least a win, but it sounds like it'll happen because he draws the most eyes.

Jose, remember when you were at UFC 258 just a couple of weeks ago and Balal Mohammed is sitting there and you're asking these great questions about the callouts and he's just like, I'm not going to call out Colby. I'm just going to make the sensible call out. I'm going to call out Li Jing Liang. Now he's fighting Leon Edwards. And there's all this talk about, what if Leon wins? Does he get the title shot?

Has he done enough to get there? What if Bilal Muhammad wins? What if he goes in there and beats him? Leon Edwards. Does this shake up the whole division or does this get chocked up as great win but Leon hasn't fought in two years? No way. If you if he go

like okay if how what was Hamzat Shamaa of ranked 15 and he had not even fought a welterweight yet. So if Belal Mohammed sits at 15 and then he beats Leon Edwards the

the conversation we're having about Hamzot you raise Hamzat and right in Balal Muhammad. That's what we need to be doing if he wins. Like he's in the same position. He just has less of the machine behind him. So if Bilal Muhammad beats Leon Edwards, which I favor Leon Edwards,

and I think I know Belal Mohammed won't take that as an insult because he is taking this fight on short notice. And he is by far one of the most media savvy and best breakdown. He is a phenomenal breakdown person for when it comes to fights. That's not insol on Belal Mohammed. I think he would agree. If Belal Mohammed wins,

I want to see Belah Mohamed to fight Colby Covington because he's called out Colby Covington for years, even before this whole stick. And the whole stick that Colby Covington did was obviously ruffled a lot of feathers in a very, very specific demographic. Balah Muhammad is that demographic. If he wants to fight Colby Covington

and it will just be the moat, like I know, I'm not saying either fighter will go there, the fans will just turn. Like the very specific group of fans, will just turn evil and it will be awful to talk awful to cover but i again that fight would make sense a mazudal can go fight kama ruzman they can go fight tough they can go do whatever or if if uh they want to do kamar usmuzman versus wonder boy and hori mazal just sits on the side and waits michael is out there too that's fine too if they want to do bala mouhan versus michael so that's fine too

but we have to start talking about balaamahmahd being a top five welterweight if he beats leon edwards because that is the conversation we would be having if haman Hamzaa Shamaev fall. Remember when Hamzaat won his second fight over Reese McKee at Welterweight? Someone, a very specific person on the ones and twos, aka the truck. He's like, throw him in there against Kamar Uzman. Throw him in there against the champ. We're probably not going to be having that same conversation with if Balam-Mohama'amu wins.

But I think he would deserve that come. Not to fight for the championship, obviously. But any argument we have for Hamzaa Shama'amayev being a contender, we have to have the same conversation with Balamahmah if he beat Lanhamman Edwards. another round of applause from the capacity crowd here. Nick, you and I kind of, shout out to the late great Brian Levick, but you and I were interviewing Bilal Muhammad in Titan FC. And now look at him.

He's here getting a big main event spot on March 13th. What if he wins? What does that do to the Walterweight Division? Well, Jose said you do the Covington fight, which I wouldn't be against, and he said you don't necessarily give him a title shot. But I say you do. If Belaw Muhammad goes out there and beats Leon Edwards, whether it's a close decision or a first round knockout,

you give him the title shot. I know it's not going to happen because Dana White would just say, oh, Leon Edwards hasn't fought for two years. He clearly was, you know, ring rust and Blal Mohammed still needs to get another big win. But that is a big win. Leon Edwards, I don't care about the layoff. That is a huge win for Blah Mohamed if it happens. And you jump at that opportunity in terms of, you know, what makes the most sense.

He would be the highest ranked fighter that Ouzman hasn't fought at that point. He would be above Wonderboy most likely because Edwards is number three. I think Wonderboy is number five or so. And that would be the fight to make. Covington fought Usman less than two years ago. Madhvedal fought him last year. As I said, I'm about the fresh matchups. I'm about the new challenges for Kamar Usman,

who is already starting to clean out the division a little bit. So I would say give that shot to Blal if he beats Edwards because I think they would have given Jemai of the title shot if he beat Edwards. So I agree with Jose, you talk about Blahamama the same way we were talking about Comzaa Ghanaya. It's not going to happen, but that's what should happen and what would make sense. To kind of bring it back to where this question stemmed from, and I know we're playing the hypothetical game. This is a guess, but I like to play the if you had $20 of supplemental income game, Nick Baldwin. True or false, Stephen Thompson will be fighting for the Walterway title before the end of the year.

False, just because I think they'll probably do the Jorge Mazadol rematch. And after that, they'll probably look to do Kobe Covington because he's the next biggest fight for Usman. And we will probably get these rematches. Even if Edwards beats Blah Mohamed, which I expect to happen, I still don't think a title shot is guaranteed for him. If he beat Shamaev, I think then we would have been talking about Usman and Leon. But with Winover Bilal Muhammad, who despite an impressive 9-and-3 record in the UFC,

is still kind of just trying to gain notoriety in the sport, I don't think that's going to cut it in the eyes of Dana White and the matchmaker. So, yeah, I guess I kind of got off from Wonderboy there. But to wrap it up, I don't think Wonderboy is going to be fighting for the title. I think they'll look to do Jorge and then probably Colby. What do you think, Jose, true or false? Wonderboy title shot 2021. In this hypothetical scenario where I have $20 in my pocket,

is Kamara Usman still the champ in this hypothetical? fight or does hori mazval beat him if that happens if hori mazal beats kamar uzumann in this in this hypothetical magical world uh then probably because he beat horay mazudal and i we've all seen the interviews like our old colleague pica carol and i interviewed uh hoary mazal during his requirto launching and he said he wants to rematch stephen thompson and he wants to rematch damien maya if hori mazudal goes out there and just cooks up Kamara Usman. Yes, the trilogy fight is there. But if they want to do Usman versus Covington

and then Mazadal versus Thompson, too, that's fine as well. The fact that we're having this conversation just shows how amazing the Welterweight division is. But I also think, because in Belal Muhammad is doing this now, Kevin Holland did this, Marvin Vittori did this.

The fighters that are ready to go when the UFC calls you are the fighters that are going to get these big opportunities. So if Stephen Thompson recovers from his injuries and surgeries and is just always ready to go, why not? Because fighters have fallen out. Like remember when Chas Skelly was supposed to have a fight last weekend? What happened? The fight fell out and he was in the octagon.

So for all we know, one of these fighters could fall out and who needs to step up? Stephen Thompson can step up and fight one of these top five fighters. So yeah, all say true. If Jorge Magidol wins, his chances obviously drastically grow. if the UFC want to make him versus Kamaro for the title because they want to if Kamaro and him wants a fresh matchup, that's fine too. I just think outside of Usman, Stephen Thompson is sitting in a good seat right now. Yeah, I think he made the welterweight division much more interesting this week with these interviews and the callouts and all that stuff. He let people know there's another option in there besides just Mazadol.

Like I said before, I'm not against the Mazadol fight because I thought it kind of forces the rest of the division to play out and get busy. That's why I'm not against it. I don't expect Mazdao to win that fight, but I get where he's coming from, make that bank son. I get it. But it would be cool to see Wonderboy get the shot this year, 38 years of age.

But we're going to get ready for the final round of regulation. The point for round three goes to Nick Baldwin. I liked your passion, brother. I liked your passion. I liked it. Again, it's not whether I agree or disagree. It's how you present your argument. You guys both presented great arguments, but you know, you kind of think about what sticks out at the end of the day.

And for some reason, Nick stuck out to me there. It was a great battle. We go to round four. Listen, if you watch a show, you know where this is going. Don't worry about it. But back to Las Vegas, we go. And back to the heavyweight division, we go. UFC Vegas 20 goes down in around 48 hours or so.

Main event, like we talked about, an important one for the big boys. We got Jarsini Rosen Strike taking on the surging contender Cyril Gunn. original main event, of course, is Dominic Reyes versus Yuri Perashka. That was postponed after Reyes got injured. This fight gets moved up a couple weeks and it works out. Great, because the current divisional storylines, it's a beautiful thing. So, Jose, what sticks out to you at this fight? Where do you rank the importance of this main event on Saturday?

I mean, it's hugely important because for years, for years we talked about how the UFC Heavyweight Division was where the old men went, where like, oh, you don't have to cut weight so you can fight longer. Remember when like the youngest fighters in the UFC heavyweight division were the junior de los Santos and the King Velazquez and then they kind of got old and they faded out and then we had like who is the top of the division like Barnett Arlowski JDS like these are all former champions that have like 10 plus fights in the UFC now we have like Curtis blades burst onto the scene Cyril Ghan is bursting on the scene in Ghanu Rosenstreek dokius aspinall spivak like these are all names that are the future of the scene of the scene the heavyweight division. So while it's, I don't think at the present time, it's the most stacked it's ever been. The future has never been brighter. Also, we're taught, like going back to the first question, the John Jones present and the John

Jones factor obviously is looming over, as Max Holloway said in your interview, he referred to himself as the cloud over the featherweight title fight. John Jones is the storm cloud over this entire division because he obviously gets the title shot first whenever he wants it. If Francis Gano wins, the trilogy fight with Stipe Amioch, which is probably there. He's going to fight John Jones because I do think Francis Gano versus John Jones is the biggest fight they can make in the heavyweight division right now, especially if the title is on the line. But if he wins and Stipey holds out and gets the trilogy fight again like he did against D.C.

when D.C. knocked him out and then D.C. fought Derek Lewis and then he did the rematch against Stipe. That is always looming too. So you knock off one guy in Giorzino or Cyril Gong. them knocks out the other. And then Derek Lewis is right there waiting for him, another knockout artist who is incredibly popular fighter who, while he's not going to be the most charismatic fighter in terms of like the Conners or the Masley Dolls or the Kobe Covingtons and where they're phenomenal on the mic, he's an incredibly popular fighter. They can all headline cards, historically. They love headlining fight nights with these UFC heavyweight knockout artists.

So hugely important for not just the title implications, but the future of the division because it's kind of like the last linchpin in these fights because you've had all these big heavyweight fights happening. The title fight is obviously what everyone wants, but this is the fight that's going to really open up the rest of the division. Because like I said, I don't like fantasy matchmaking until all the fights have played out because what if someone gets hurt? What if it's a draw?

We were talking about, oh, who should figurato fight next if you beats Brandon Moreno? And then what happened? It fought to a draw. What if someone gets a six-month title suspension? What if someone pops? Not saying anyone will, but these are all factors we have to playing to when someone gets COVID and the again they weigh in doesn't mean they're going to fight doesn't mean they're going to fight if they weigh in so let's get the fight over first before you can

finish the match make but hugely important for the future of the division nick what do you think yeah i mean of course it's an important fight i think this is just another matchup um february has been all about the heavy weights we had ovaring volkov at the start of the month we just had Blades and Lewis, and now we have this matchup between Rosenstrike and Gone, and it's kind of just one of those other fights that is contributing to this recent rebirth of the division.

The winner is going to be basically the second guy in line after, well, I guess after Jones and then Derek Lewis and then Francis and Gunn who gets a shot, but he'll be right up there. Whether it's Rosenstrike or gone, as we spoke about earlier, it'll probably be the winner of this fight against Derek Lewis.

I will fantasy matchmake, what the hell. And yeah, I think it's an awesome matchup. I think people are looking forward to it. And the stakes are high. The winner is going to be an elite heavyweight, and the loser is going to be sort of in that 7 to 10 range with sort of everybody else. And so stakes are high.

It's a great matchup. And the winner is going to be right up there for a title shot, probably one more win away. Look, we're all aware. You guys both just mentioned it where the winner goes from here. Maybe they get into the fight with Derek Lewis of the win. But I am curious to get your thoughts on this, Nick. that I'll go to you, Jose. What do you think is the better outcome for the division and for the UFC moving forward

based on the pieces that are in place? A Jarzino win or a Cyril Gan win? I think gone for sure just because Rosenstrike has already fought in Gano. He's already had that big loss, so to speak, had a big fight, fell short. I don't think Jarzina Rosenstrike is ready to be a title challenger. I don't think he's quite there yet. I still watch his fights and I think there's still room to grow, but I don't think he's quite there yet. Even though Cyril Gaon has less experience as a professional than Rosenstrike does, I think gone is actually more developed.

I think he is more ready to fight the best of the best and to possibly challenge for the title maybe in 2022. So I think for the UFC, Gone is the better fighter to win. I think he has a bit more upside. He hasn't lost as a professional, hasn't lost in the UFC. and just a couple more fresh matchups just because we've already seen Nagano and Rosenstrike fight and we know how that one played out. Jose, agree with Nick or is it better for the UFC

of Jarzino wins? I think what would create better, I agree with the fresh matchup, especially if Francis Gano wins. So I think Cyril Gahn would make a more intriguing matchup. But also, Cyril Ghan is coach. Cyril Ghan's coach and Francis and Gano are not the biggest friends right now. He, of course, went on the media rounds.

Every time a microphone is stuck in front of him, he kind of throws France and Gano under the bus. France and Gano. Cyril Gano always said that he wouldn't fight Francis unless it was for a title. MMA is also legal in Paris now, or France, I should say. So if the UFC is really kind of going to go gung-ho into that market once this pandemic passes, I can't imagine a better headliner for a pay-per-view than France and Gano versus Cyril Ghan, two fighters with ties to Paris who can speak the language. So if that's how they're looking at it, of course it's going to be Cyril Gond.

Gires,ino, Rosenstreaker from Suriname is also a big deal, too. He can speak multiple languages. He has that Dutch background. He has 76 wins as a professional kickboxer. And single-digit losses. So if they really want to break into that, that Suriname, he also has time. to Hollins in the Netherlands. That's another one too.

But during this pandemic, they're out there fighting in Fight Island or they're fighting in Las Vegas. So how much that matters is up in the air. But personally, I think Cyril Gahn would create much more interesting storylines. But a win is a win. You can't argue with results unless it's a super controversial. Unless you're Juno de Santos and you get hit in the back of the head, apparently, against Siraghan. Then you can argue for months and weeks after the fight after.

But it is what it is. So Cyril Gond creates. more interesting matchups, but I wouldn't hate just the image of Girozino, who's not the tallest cat fighting someone like Derek Lewis. Pretty solid card on Saturday. We did lose a fight earlier today. Unfortunately, Alonso Menefield tested positive for COVID-19, so his fight with William Knight is off, but it's going to happen at UFC 260 now, so that's good. Confirm that with multiple sources earlier today. Hione Barcellos also tests positive. His fight with Marcello Rojo is off. Rojo now fights Charles Jordane on March 13th.

Barcelos not really sure at this point. Jose? Yes. Let me ask you this, Jose. You know where I'm going with this. Under the radar fight, fighter storyline heading into Saturday. What sticks out to you? Ooh.

I mean, anytime a fighter takes a fight on, like, less than two weeks notice or even less, it's going to be interesting. So the Angela Hill versus Ashley Yoder fight is super interesting, mostly because Angela Hill was so vocal in the fact that Tisha Torres was turning down the fight and she is more than willing to welcome Ashley Yoder into the rematch on what like a week's notice or something like that so that's always interesting but I'm going to say the absolute first fight of the card I'm a very big fan of Dustin Jacoby I was at his contender series fight and he was all smiles when he got that contract Dana White said if I don't give him a chance now he'll probably never get another shot so he won me over I remember his earlier fights which weren't even televised because he was on the Facebook prelimbs or he was bumped from the fuel TV prelims. If you remember those, that might have been before young Nick Baldwin was even alive. So I remember those days vividly.

So Dustin Jacoby, man, I'm excited. I know there's a lot of other fun fights like the Rivera-Munoz rematch and Nikita Krylov and all those fights. But as a fight fan and someone who's been at these fights recently and have interacted some of these fighters, Dustin Jacoby won me over. He's definitely one of those. I'm obviously, I'm not rooting for anyone, but it's a feel-good story whenever he goes out there and puts on our performance because I didn't think we would ever see him fight in MMA after his two losses. Because he was a Bellator cast off.

He was in the same boat as Anthony Smith. He loses and he has to go on to the regional scene to get a few performances, take several years off. So, yeah, I'm very much looking forward to Justin Jacoby fighting on Saturday. Nick, what do you think? What's your under the radar, fight, fighter storyline? my under the radar fight is the main event of the prelims it is a lightweight boat between Alexander Hernandez and Tiago Moises there's been nobody talking about this one just because there are some other good matchups on the main card and this one is kind of buried and not

buried on the prelims but it is on the prelims I think this is a killer matchup though I think this is probably one of the better fights on the card Tiago Moises is coming off a few big wins over Michael Johnson which I thought was one of the better submissions of 2020 and then a close win over Bobby Green to end the year. Alexander Hernandez has bounced back since a bit of a rough patch within the past couple of years. And I think the winner of this could make the argument that they deserve a top 15 opponent or at least one win away from that just because lightweight is obviously the best

division in the sport, most act in the UFC. But yeah, stylistically, I think Hernandez can present some problems on the feet for Moises. And then obviously if Moises gets them down, that could be game over for Hernandez. I just think stylistically, it's an incredible matchup. A lot more people should be talking about it. And then the stakes are relatively high, given the fact that there are two guys on winning streets in the Lightwood Division.

You can make the argument the co-main event might be the most under the radar fight. It's just absolutely insane that fight coming up. Like everyone just talks about the main event. Nikita Kralov versus Magamette Anka-Live is insane. That is such a great fight. for a co-main event, not getting enough love. And I guess my under the radar storyline, poor Alex Olivera.

He stays on the card, loses Randy Brown, and then he gets Ramazan Kuramauga made off. So he gets back-to-back, like unbeaten killer prospects. After fighting Shafcott and Rachmanoff at UFC 254, man, Alex Olivera, props to that guy for taking this fight and stayed on the car. But some really fun matchups on this card, Sabina Mazzo, fighting Alexis Davis.

I believe that's at 135, which is an interesting decision from Sabina Mazza, so I'm excited to see that. But it's the go-home show for UFC 259. That's going to be a lot of fun. We'll be discussing that pay-per-view at great lengths here on the program next week. But which gentleman will be here to discuss said pay-per-view? We will find out because this has been a fun matchup on BTL this week.

Will it continue? The point for round four goes to the man with probably the best hair in MMA right now. Jose Young's has tied it up. Just crushing. I can't stop staring at it. It's like the Zach Morris Season 4 style right there. It's just outstanding, my man. Can't do it.

I have never seen that show, but I will believe you. Wow. I know. I'm the only human being alive that's probably never seen saved by the belt. I'm number two. I'm right there with you. I'm going to say Nick's not yet. There's a lot of things Nick hasn't seen.

Follow him on Twitter. He's a great fall because you're just be blown away by the things he hasn't seen. But listen, we're all tied up. That means we're heading to the knockout round. One question we'll decide it all. And as you have seen in 2021, we're trying to add some new wrinkles to the knocker around. Mix things up a little bit. But each of these gentlemen are going to have 60 seconds to answer a question that they have no idea about.

Once that is done with the help of all of you, the wonderful viewers of this program, we will turn it over to the judge, the jury, the executive producer, Judge E. Casey Lydens. to render the final decision. So Jose, you are the champion. You get the prerogative. You're going first. You're giving it to Nick first. Is this the same scenario where behind two doors, there's two questions?

Kind of, sort of, but there'll be one question. I'll give you that much. Nick can go first then. All right. Nick, you're going to pick the poison for the knocker on, so to speak. So there's three potential questions to choose from. You're each going to answer the same question, but we're going to let fate decide what question you're going to answer.

So we need a number between one and three. Let's go number one. Going number one. Let's see what we got here. Ooh, all right. So here's the question. Nick's going to answer first. Jose will answer the same question.

Nick, it was announced earlier this week that Sage Northcutt will return to action for the first time since his brutal knockout loss to Coswell Alexandria nearly two years ago for one championship. his opponent live on TNT April 28th will be none other than Shinya Ayoki, the Japanese legend with over 50 professional fights who is on a three-fight winning streak. So the question is, your thoughts on the matchmaking, was this the right call to book Sage Northcutt against Shinya Ayoki on April 28th? We got one minute on the clock. Your time starts now. If you're investing in Save Northcutt as a guy you want in your promotion for years to come,

I think this is a terrible matchup. I think Shinia Ioki can probably just get him down and tap him out pretty quickly. He has so much more experience. I get it that Sage has youth on his side, but that won't matter in this matchup. I think Ioki probably has a good shot to win. If you're just here for sort of the freak show matchup and the fight that'll get the most eyes,

and you don't really care about the future of Sage North Dakota, you don't care if he has one more fight after this or if he retires after this, then this is the perfect fight because I wouldn't necessarily tune in for Sage Northcutt versus a guy I've never heard of. I might check it out if I can, but I wouldn't make it a priority. Now I'm actually excited to see Sage Northcutt return from a two-year layoff against Junioki, because what if he doesn't get taken down or submitted? Maybe he can win.

So this is a bizarre matchup, and I'm here for it. But if they're invested in Sage, it's terrible matchmaking. All right. One minute off the clock. Nick Baldwin, our challenger, with a compelling answer, We now turn it over to the champion, Jose Young's. Minute on the clock. Northcut V. Aoki won on TNT4, April 28th, Year of Our Lord, 2021.

Your reaction to this piece of business. Is this the right move? Your time starts now. I freaking love this fight, especially if it is in a ring. If Shinyaoki is fighting inside a ring and he gets to wear tight. Oh my God, inject that into my veins because that is just everything about it. Shinyeoki is one of the guys that I remember from even like when I was 12 and 11 fighting those days. St. Norca was probably like five or six year old.

He didn't even know what an arm bar was when Shinyeoki is snapping arms and giving people the fingers and dressing up like superheroes. And he freaking grappled Fedor Malianenko in like an exhibition match. I can't remember the guy's name. I just watched it. But he had a fight where the first round was MMA. or kickboxing and the second round was MMA. And he got knocked out on the kickboxing in the MMA fight, in the MMA round.

So I am about it. Anytime Aoki fight like he's lost, who's he lost to? Alvarez, Ascran, Melanis, gets tapped by or Cronin and Gary Tone, like he loses to not just the best of the best, but the elite. Terrible matchmaking for stage Northcutt. Awesome fight for fight fans. Wow.

So after hearing those two minutes, this is the fight of the year in 2000. 21. Sage Northcutt versus Shinyaoki and, you know, give it to them and just it into the veins. There you have it, ladies gentlemen. You have heard the arguments. Leave your thoughts, your decisions in the chat. And while we wait for those to come in to catch up to the delay that you may see on YouTube, just a reminder, we will get you ready for UFC Vegas 20. We'll have our preview show tomorrow. Also on Saturday, we'll have our pre-fight live show 30 minutes prior to the event, I can't give you a time because we don't know yet.

We don't know what's going to happen on the scales tomorrow. So you've been enjoying those. We'll post-fight you off to the card. And then AK and I are back with on to the next one. Do some matchmaking as we get ready for UFC 259. And we'll have lots of coverage of that event, thanks to the man on the left side of your screen. So stay tuned for all that. Okay.

Casey Leiden, the Honorable E, you've heard the responses. Northcut V. Aoki. You see what the peeps are thinking? What are you thinking? What is your decision? Who is leaving the virtual arena, the BTL champ? I've made a decision. Your winner.

Mostly because he mentioned his pants. And still, Jose Young's. Oh, there you go. See, one of the things we have learned in this program, you got to know who the judge is. And Jose knows how to grease up the judge with the words of wisdom. Don't fight harder, fight smarter. That's how you have to approach these knockout rounds. A hell of a matchup it was.

But Jose, like we know, no money, no title belts, at least for right now. But listen, if you're a fantasy beltmaker, this is an opportunity for. for you, maybe to get a little sponsorship action here. You know what I'm saying? But Jose, 30 seconds talk about whatever it is you want to talk about, good, bad, and different in the sport of MMA. The floor is yours, champ. Man, I'm really excited to watch Alas de Saras fight this weekend.

Obviously, he's a fellow weeb. He's probably one of the OG weaves in the game. He used to walk out to the cowboy bebop and the Fully Cooley Cooley song. He used to dress up like Naruto and all that kind of fun stuff. I think he's really coming to his own right now. But, man, he was on fire at virtual media. If you haven't watched his virtual media scrum, wait for my victory

speech to be over and then go watch his virtual media discrum because he was unbelievable. Like he, awful questions. Like, no offense to a lot of the media that are tuning in because of course they're trying their best and there's obviously language barriers and stuff, but they got some

fantastic answers out of Alex Cicera. So, pro-veteran, like true veteran of the sport, someone who's been around the UFC a lot longer than I think people realize. So, Yeah, go watch Ask Sarah's also not MMA related. Totally forgot to mention it last week.

Last week was the anniversary of the station nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island. A truly dark day in my home state, and I completely forgot to bring it up because I was not expected to be Josh Gross. But yes, we shout out to all the survivors and first responders of that terrible day in Rhode Island. Well said, my man. And then we're going to give Nick some time as well. He steps in on short notice. And this is one of those fights where you come in on short notice. notice, you lose a squeaky tight decision, but your stock still rises in, at least in my opinion.

I don't know how the viewers feel, but at least in my opinion, Nick. And thank you for coming on. Any words for the peeps? Well, I learned a lesson next time, if there is a next time. I just got to say pants a bunch of times, and it'll probably get my handways. So if I do that, then, you know, all events just lost to Jose easy. There you go. Nick is the man.

Thank you for stepping on short notice. Brian Callagher. Where are you at, bro? Where are you at? I'm the bald, beautiful man on this program, not you. That's going to do it for the show this week. Thank you all for watching. Get excited for next week.

We will get you fired up for UFC 259, loaded card, three title fights. Of course, Israel Adasania looks for his second title against John Belhoves and the main event. Amanda Nunes versus Megan Anderson for the women's featherweight title and Howball, Piotrion, versus Al Jermaine Sterling for the Bannamway title. A big week upon us,

big weekend upon us as well with UFC Vegas 20. but for Jose, Nick, Judge Casey Liden, and the iconic voice of Esther Lynn, who takes you home. We'll see you next week right here on Between the Links. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links. I'm Esther Lynn. Thanks.

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