MMA Fighting - Between the Links: What's Next For Tyron Woodley, Giga Chikadze's Eye-Opening Performance, UFC 268 Card Reveal

Episode Date: August 31, 2021

Host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew as he takes on UFC bantamweight Brian Kelleher. This week, the panel discusses the fallout of Jake Paul’s split decision win over Tyron Woodley this past Sunday, if they take Paul’s retirement hints seriously, where Woodley goes from his fifth consecutive combat sports defeat, Giga Chikadze’s spectacular performance against Edson Barboza in the main event of UFC Vegas 35 this past Saturday night and if he can be considered a legit featherweight title contender, the lineup reveal for November’s UFC 268 event at Madison Square Garden, and more. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Brian Kelleher: @brianboom135 Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With Instacart, you get groceries that over-deliver, like when you get groceries that are the same prices in-store. With no markups that select retailers, you get in-store products for in-store prices, and the only thing that isn't in-store is you. That means you could order in-store products at in-store prices while you're in sweatpants, in spin class, in stuffy work meeting, in anywhere but in store. So download the app today and get $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Service fees exclusions in terms apply. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my...

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links on this Tuesday. Yes, the show is now on Tuesdays officially, and there is a lot to discuss. A lot going on in the combat sports world, as always. so let us not waste any time. Let's get right into this thing. As we introduce the Challenger, a man who, he has not been here in a while. He's been too busy playing golf and preparing for fights

and winning fights and dropping stone cold stunners on people after winning those fights. But he's finally back on the panel. Let us say hello to Brian Boom Kelleher, who just got a victory over Domingo Palarte a little over a week ago. How are you, sir? Business is booming. As usual, I'm happy to be back.

I know I was in the trenches, you know, the last couple of times, but now you caught me at a good time. I got some freedom on my hands. There we go. And now let us introduce the man who has been firing off takes like crazy the last few weeks, not just on this show, but he's been doing them on preview shows, pre-fight shows, post-fight shows. The man is everywhere these days, and he's looking to make it four straight victories here on BTL.

Jen Bishu back with us. How are you, my friend? I'm doing great. I did not even realize I had forced four in a row, so I'm doing even better. But I just, I also, I learned a new thing. I didn't know, I didn't know Brian was a big golfer. So let me suggest this, Mike. Obviously, I'm about to win this.

This is no contest. It's an unfair match. So we can, we can make things even. I will have a fist fight with Brian after this. That's also unfair. Clearly, he's going to beat the hell out of me. So it's one in one. And then we can settle things up on the golf course for the trilogy.

You're a golfer, Jed? I love golf. Oh, this is excellent news. This is excellent news. I too love golf. So when we actually, like, get together, we're going to have to play some golf, Chad. It's true. Since you also just moved right next to my parents. So, yeah, we can, there's not a lot of great golfing.

Honestly, where you now live, but we'll figure it out. Brian can come down. We can settle our beef on the links. Let's do it. I love it. Between the links, it's on the link. On the links. On the links.

It's perfect. Oh, that's a beautiful thing. So let us begin today's show with the topic that I know is just going to make a lot of people very happy because they love when we talk about this, especially on an MMA website. We have to start with the biggest story in combat sports right now, the fallout of Jake Paul's split decision win over Tyrant Woodley on Sunday. We all know about it. We've talked about it at Nazim at this point,

but we have not heard Brian Kelleher's take on this on this show. So let us begin with Mr. Boom Kelleher. Brian, what did you think of the fight overall? How did you score it? What were your takeaways from Paul versus Woodley? Yeah, I mean, I scored the fight for Paul. You know, it's one of those things. Woodley, you know, he came in and kind of fought just like he has been lately.

He just a little bit of resistance, you know, like he puts the forward pressure on, but then he doesn't pull the trigger as much. You know, I thought if you would just pull the trigger and put a little bit more volume on Paul, he could have definitely secured that fight and got the win. He definitely landed the harder shots. that he did. It was a couple of good shots that he landed that one knocked, you know, Paul into the ropes. But, you know, Paul was just a little bit more active with his hands, with his jab, and I think that got him the win right there. It's unfortunate. Woodley went in and kind of

held back and didn't really pull the trigger enough. Jed, let's go to what Jake Paul had to say on social media on Monday. He was very active. He said a few things, but I want to touch on two things in particular. One, Jake Paul tweets out the guidelines for Tyrone Woodley getting this tattoo based on officially the worst combat sports bets ever in the history of all bets to this point. And the other, he said, updated status, retired boxer. So what's more likely to be true? Woodley getting this tattoo or Jake Paul retiring from boxing?

Wouldly getting the tattoo is obviously more likely to be true. I wouldn't say that I think that's super likely. Look, we talked about this on the post-flight show right after it happened. It's malpractice that Tyrone Woodley doesn't have the tattoo already. If I was on his team and his corner, as soon as Jake Paul said it in the cage, he should have done it anyway. Just so we're clear, he made a bet, be a man of your word, even if you don't think you lost. Again, I scored the fight of draw.

You still lost officially. You got to get this tattoo regardless. but you managed to leverage a useless asset, this tattoo, because you already should have it, into maybe getting another title fight. If I was, or not a title fight, Jake Paul fight, whatever, a bag fight, let's call it that. If I'm on top of these team, like, hey man,

when you go to the press conference, let's just get tattoo baby right there. You can sit there, answer questions, jack your leg all the way up on the table, and get her putting I love Jake Paul on top of it. Let's go, make this happen. capitalize on any momentum you have so you can get another bag. He didn't do it.

And now, at 50-50 gets the tattoo in the first place. But, yeah, Jake Paul has won 100% boxing again. So that's obviously more likely. Brian, what do you think? Do you think there's any chance Tyrone gets this tattoo? Do you think this happens at all? I think you might get it, man. I mean, you got to be a man of your word, right?

So I think he might actually do it. I mean, probably not in a spot that you could see it. he probably should get falling in and out of love with Jake Paul instead of just I love Jake Paul. That would be that would be a little bit better in my opinion. But I think, you know, I don't think Jake Paul is going to retire. I think he still wants, you know, he made that big hit list. I think he still wants to continue doing this and build a legacy out of this. But, you know, you know how it is in MMA and all of combat sports.

When you hint out of retirement, it just makes headlines. It makes a lot of noise. A lot of people get behind it talking about. you and that's probably what he's doing and then you know just building the next fight yeah and him putting that out there basically to me was the nail in the coffin of this rematch like it's just not happening and there's nothing really available for him right now that makes any sense like the tommy fury fight sure it's there i don't like his chances in that fight i don't think his team likes his chances that fight as jed talked about on the post fight show yeah maybe mazadol's not

fighting him dyes isn't fighting him connor's not fighting him They're all under UFC contract. There's no way Dana's going to send those guys over there. So there's literally nobody else. Maybe Anderson Silva. Maybe Tito Ortiz. I don't see that happening, Jed. I know you were fighting for that one.

But let me just kind of go back to the tyrant thing. Boom. Do you want to see a rematch? Like, Woodley wants it. It will dive into more where he could go in a few moments after Sunday. But do we need to see a rematch? Like, as a fan outside of seeing a fellow mixed martial artist receive a nice paycheck or a nice bag.

as Jed said, do you want to see a rematch between these two guys? Do you care about it? No, I personally don't. I mean, it's one of those things. Like, I feel like Paul kind of did, he made a statement where like, okay, he can compete with a guy who has done big things in combat sports. Like, that's the statement that he proved. But Woodley also is the perfect guy to do that against right now with a guy that's not really in the best mindset and not really the most aggressive guy, a guy that's going to really put it on you volume-wise and stuff and make you face adversity. I mean, he has the power. He did land a shot, but I don't really need to see this fight again.

There wasn't really much controversy to it. And for Woodley, it's really, like you said, he's trying to catch another bag. You know, that's Woodley's phrase right now. It's all for the bag right now. And that's, you know, he's going to push a rematch as much as he can because you're just going to double up on a paycheck again. So why not for him? He might get lucky, you know, if there's nothing else out there. for Paul and they can somehow stir the pot up some more with this whole tattoo thing and build it

again. I'm sure people will watch, but for me, I can care less about another fight. What about you, Jed? I mean, you scored this thing a draw. You spoke for the entire website by scoring this a draw on Sunday. So a rematch must interest you greatly. I didn't score to draw. MMAfighting.com. Our official position is that that was a draw. that's what you get for making me live blog stuff, Brian. Look, I have no interest. I didn't want to see this in the first place. I was intrigued and interested,

but it wasn't like if I was check writing a list of things if I had my druthers I'd have, Paul Woodley wasn't anywhere near it. Like this was just something that was made, and I was interested in the dynamics. I'm far less interested in the rematch. The only reason I think you do the rematch is kind of like you said, Jake Paul didn't have any other options right now.

Look, I've been on the record. I've been beating this drum since day one with Jake Paul. The end point is a match with Connor Greger that will break many pay-per-view records, probably, and do enormous business. And that's coming, but it's not coming for a year and a half, basically. Connor still has two fights left on his UFC contract, and he's obviously recovering from the leg injury. So Jake Paul has nothing until that can happen.

And the earliest that can happen is this time. next year and that's still even pretty optimistic, I guess we'll call it that. So if he wants to keep doing things, and I think he does both because he's buying into a little bit of his own hype right now. He's believing that he is a real fighter, and by many definitions, that's true, though he's not a really good boxer. And so if he wants to keep doing this, he wants to keep making money. This thing is making a lot of money.

He needs to fight somebody. and anybody else he fights, I don't like his chances. Anderson's of it would beat the hell out of him. So I just don't know who Jake Paul faces that isn't either viewed as a huge step back or that runs a real risk of hurting him and then taking the Conn-Mragher fight off the table. I think Tyron Woodley is one of the very few people who does offer something in that regard. But we've seen, my opinion has changed since fight night because we've seen so many people have total disinterest in that. I just don't really think there's a way Tyrone would get that fight again.

Nobody is interested in watching it happen again. And so Jake Paul's going to have to find something new for Tyron. He needs to go all in on the Logan thing because that's his only other chance to get in the bag at this point. Because otherwise he's probably going to be in like BKFC or something in the next year. Brian, what do you think about this whole thing? Like this is nothing to do with the show. I'm just curious what you think about this whole Jake Paul surge and what he's done. attention he's brought to boxing, at least from a different kind of audience.

Like, what have you just, what have you made of this whole thing? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, you know, it's one of those things like, uh, for a fighter that puts in, you know, his whole life of work to try to get to the top and make paydays like, like this guy's making it's kind of, it's hard to, to, to digest. But also I do respect the fact that a guy that is coming into the game rich and, and has all the money in the world is willing to at least test himself and put himself in harm's way, you know, when he doesn't have to. He could just keep doing his YouTube thing and invest in other businesses. So I do see that aspect of things. And that, and that I can respect for sure.

Well, we will see what happens with young Jake Paul, who he will fight next, when he will fight next. But we're going to talk more about Tyron Woodley in round number two. But the point for round number one goes to got to give it to boom. Got to give it to boom. because he put out the actual tattoo idea that that should have happened. And there you go. Very good start to this battle. When you're a forward thinker, you don't just bring your A game. You bring your AI game.

Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money, and agents. So you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. Let's talk about Tyrone Whitley because Jake Paul sort of made all the headlines as expected. Let's talk about Woodley where he sits now compared to where he was heading into this fight. As we reported earlier today, he made $2 million for his purse for this fight. I'm sure he'll get a bunch more once the gate bonuses and pay-per-view revenue comes in.

But there was a lot of talk about his legacy heading into this fight and where it goes after this fight, et cetera. So I'm curious, Jed, now that we've had like a couple days to digest all of this, most people would say, although he lost and he had his moments where he was frustrating MMA fans around the world by not engaging, by not throwing punches, most felt Woodley had a pretty solid account of himself on Sunday. So do you feel like this fight going the distance with Jake Paul, did it hurt his legacy, did it help his legacy, or did nothing happen at all in that regard? Yeah, nothing happened to his legacy. This just up to his bottom line, is up to his bank account.

And good for the man. I said coming into the fight that regardless of what happened, and we talked about on preview show, regardless of what happened, it was not going to influence my views on Tom Woodley's legacy in mixed martial arts. And really, that is his legacy. I know that he has some wrestling pedigree, but he wasn't a world champion or really a wrestler of significant note in that regard. He's an MMA fighter.

That is his career. That is what he has accomplished by far the most in. That's where he's a Hall of Fame. and whatever happened against Jake Paul wasn't going to affect that at all. And we could argue whether he gave a good accounting of himself or not. He did not embarrass himself in the same way that Ben Ascran did. And there is a real benefit to that. Though many people would argue that he did embarrass himself after the fight

begging for a rematch, which is how a lot of people took that post-fight display from him. But I don't think it affected his legacy at all. I think he just, he made money. And look, at the end of the day, we joke about it. We make snide little comments. But this is prize fighting. This isn't fist, this is fist fights for money. And he got the most money he's ever gotten for a single fist fight.

He made a flat 2-mill plus whatever the back end on that's going to be. He can take care of Mama Woodley, who is a gym and a delight and the greatest living American. I know that John Eric used to call Brian Stan the greatest living American. and maybe it was true at the time, though I still think that's probably alive, because Mama Woodley has been alive for the full time that Brian Stan has been alive. And she has been the greatest living American that whole time. So Tyron can take care of her. He can take care of his family.

He can do whatever he wants, continue to pursue music to the detriment of all of us with ears. It's great. He got the bag, and that's all the matter. What do you think, boo? I'm curious to get the fighter perspective on this. How do you feel like this changed Woodley's legacy or did it change it at all? Like did it take a bump up, a bump down, stay the same? What do you think?

I think it kind of stayed the same like Jed said. I mean, I didn't take much away from this because this wasn't like a real competitive fight for someone of his legacy in MMA. You know, the people that he's fought in MMA, you know, and then to go into a fight with Jake Paul who only has four boxing fights. I know it's different sport boxing. But like they were saying, you know, Woodley's been trained. training boxing for, I don't know how many years, you know, 10 plus years. And he went in and went to a decision with a guy that, you know, four fights deep in boxing and not even really respectable resume or anything like that. So as far as like fighting goes, you look at it and you would think Woodley would be able to take a guy like that out. So that's the only thing I take away as far as like a loss. But the damage was already done in MMA. You know, he already was kind of falling off bad in M. and they wasn't really fighting like the old Woodley for a while now and everybody saw that. So maybe we thought, you know, because he's fighting Jake Paul, he can come out and just put him away in the first round.

And then we're like, okay, maybe Woodley has some boxing that he can do. But from this fight, I really don't take much from it. I don't think like there's a future for him in boxing or anything. Like I said, it's all about money. And he just got his biggest payday, which is crazy to say. But he just wants to keep doing that as much as he can before. he calls it a day. Tyron is an interesting cat because, Jed, you talked about this before, and I'm curious to

kind of get your take on this now, because we talked about, like, we talked about Nate Diaz and him finding his way into these conversations, and I'm not comparing the two at all, but Tyron Woodley, despite losing four fights in a row in MMA and losing pretty badly in all of them, he still finds a way to get people on board with what he's saying. Like, the entire time the build to this fight. I'm like Jake Paul is going to knock Tyron Willie out in the first three rounds. Like this fight is not going to be competitive. It's going to be bad. Like I was preparing myself for heartache and sadness. But then like Fight Week comes along and Tyrant does the interview with Ariel and then he's doing the press conference and he's saying all these things. And it made

me think like maybe Tyrant can do it. Maybe he can do it. And then he comes out and he has his moment at the end of the third and into the fourth with the near knockdown. But then it's like the same tyrant who just doesn't throw like how is how is Tyrant able to do this? Like how is he able to get people on board when a lot of people are like there's no chance he has no chance in this fight. He's going to get knocked up by Jake Paul. But during fight week, they're like, wow, this guy just says the right things.

The way he's handling this mentally, maybe he can do this. Like how is he doing this, Jed? Because it's all, because at least from the outward perspective, it's all mental, right? Like, Tyne Woodley is not going in the cage and getting obliterated. He's not going in and getting rocked with the simplest punch. The way he is aged is he can't pull the trigger anymore. And especially for, honestly, I would love to hear Brian's perspective on this as like an actual fighter. But from the outside perspective, it's really easy to just view what has happened to Tyne Woodley and say,

he just doesn't have it mentally. He needs to get back in that zone or whatever. because he still has the physical capability. He's still one of the most athletic dudes that's ever competed in the sport. He still has crazy knockout power and the ability to wrestle and all those things that got him to a title in several defenses. But the sole reason he is losing, at least the way it looks in a lot of ways, is just he just won't do anything.

And so for people who aren't in there, for fans watching, it's just like, oh, well, why didn't he hurt Jake Paul? Why didn't he just go punch him some more? All he did you do was keep punching him, and he would quit. it like Jay Paul would have been done and then he would have won the game, but Tyron can't do that anymore. And I think we see this with other aging fighters losing the ability to pull the trigger is kind of the hallmark of aging out of the game.

We saw it with Anderson's Nova a lot in his UFC career as well, but we also saw a physical decline with Anderson. And so there was just less of a, ah, Anderson's rejuvenated, he's motivated. I think it is almost entirely that Tyron looks like he can still compete. He just isn't there. mentally. And so it's easy to believe him when he says, I'm there mentally now. Like I'm, I'm in this place. I'm in the right head space. I'm going to come out. I'm going to take his head off. And then he, you know, fools us for the fifth time in a row and he doesn't come out and try

and take his head off. What is your take on this, Brian? Like, Tyron has this way of doing this. And like, when Ben Asker was talking about knocking out Jake Paul and like the fifth or sixth round, like, we all laughed at the guy. We laughed at him. We're like, you're not going to do any of these things. Like, it's just not going to happen. The best thing we can hope for is that Ben Ascran can somehow find a way to survive and go the distance. But when Tyron says these things, despite being on the Schneid like he's been on, like, we didn't laugh at it. We felt that this is a very possible, this is the possibility is very strong in this. Like, how does Tyron continue to do this when his performances sort of speak otherwise? You know, Tyrone's been doing this for quite

some time. He speaks with a lot of conviction. I feel like he, you know, the way he speaks is very articulate and uh and it and it really makes you kind of question and believe like oh this is this is he means this like he feels this this this is real and he was doing this in his latest you know mma fights before those fights too he was kind of talking the same way and then he comes out and his performance is lackluster his aggression is lackluster and that could have to do it multiple things you know to me it seems like a guy that is almost afraid of fatigue whatever happened to him in the Usman fight where he says, you know, he just wasn't himself and he just like stayed back against the cage and he took a beating there.

Like I feel like he was almost fearing fatigue, you know, and that traveled into his future performances. There was almost like that one right there kind of stuck with him and then he carried that in through to the rest. And then you got to also think he's getting a flat rate and pay. So he's not really making like a show win. It's like he's making, he's at that stage. where he gets like a good show money and that's all he needs and those kind of guys you know at that

late in their career they don't really care necessarily sometimes if they win because they're getting paid the same so it was like maybe leaving the UFC was the biggest blessing for him and he was kind of done with that whole thing because he knew that something was laying on the outside for him you know something like this a big you know super fight with it would a with a big name where he can get paid even more even if he loses this fight he still gets paid more than he wasn't a UFC. So kind of a smart move, you know, but interesting because he was at one point saying, I'm the best welterweight in the world, best welterweight in the world.

He used to always say that and he really believed it. But it is really weird to hear him speak in such conviction and then go out and perform that way. So where does he go from here, Brian? Does Tyron Woodley entertain Bellator, PFL? I don't think the UFC is going to want him back anytime soon just because of the money and all that. does he enter the world of a bare knuckle boxing? Because there's some interesting matchups over there for him that would get people's attention.

Maybe he just says, screw it. I don't need this fighting thing anymore. I could do my music. I can act. Why am I doing this? What do you think? Where does he go from Sunday? You know, the one thing I could think of is,

I know he's going to chase down this rematch as much as he can until it either happens or doesn't. But then, you know, bare knuckle is building their brand and they're taking guys like Woodley, who have big names and big followings and bringing them in to try to build that up. So, you know, the little incident with him and Hector Lombard, they had that on film at the Bare Knuckle. That's a fight they can make it or look for.

And Bear Knuckles paying these guys pretty well, too, especially the big names coming in that they can utilize to build the brand. So I could see that happening. But the music, I mean, falling in and out of love, and out of love with you. I mean, he has to pass the torch, you know. What do you think, Jed? Like six months from now, where is Tyron Woodley competing? Is he competing?

50-50 is competing at all. It depends on his appetite to continue competing. How much do we take what he's saying at face value versus as public negotiation? Because he kept saying this whole thing, one, my least favorite phrase in the entire world. The fact, Tom Woodley said it 400 times the last 48 hours is infuriating. This whole thing was a movie. Like, what kind of movie? A horror movie?

A comedy. A romance? Like what? This is an awful stupid phrase. That's how you know I'm old. Because in times older than me. So he's too old to be saying that shit is all I'm saying. But there's a movie and I can't go back to fighting in small shows.

If that's real, then he can't fight anymore. Because nobody that's as big as Showtime in this event is on the door for him. Like the best he can hope for is BKFC, PFL, maybe Bellator. The Scott Coker has shown less interest in. signing kind of faded veterans than sort of is his normal M.O. recently. PFL, you can do a rematch with Roy McDonald. Ray Cooper's kind of always there. You got some options that could be interesting if he really wants to exercise that competitive

urge. But if he's just trying to get paid, trying to stay relevant out there, and he really does mean, you know, I don't want to do anything unless it's spectacular. The only hope he has is Logan Paul. And I don't even know that that's likely given. just how disinterested the broader community has seemed to be in a in a paul rematch with woodley so i honestly think that in six months he probably hasn't fought again uh he probably is working on his music which is very unfortunate for all of us we'd be better so if not go act you like can act a

little bit and you're very good in the booth time woodley just not everybody is built for music and you are unfortunately not and i'm very sorry for that if it makes you happy do what makes you happy, but I would love to not have to know about it anymore. Well, I mean, the good news is the man made a hefty paycheck on Sunday, and that number will probably continue to increase over the next several weeks. So good on him. But let's talk about what Giga Chikaze did on Saturday. The point for round two goes to Jed Michoud Mishu steals it at the end. I thought Keller was going to go up to nothing after the sing song, but Jed comes through.

You will never hear me saying, Mike. I know that I have limitations, and that is not, that's not a thing I can do. And you mentioned Showtime without, like, completely burying them. So that was good. Yeah, it's because I got yelled at for just laying into them. I got yelled at because I keep talking a mad amount of shit at Showtime. I'm curious, who yells at you? Yeah, I want to know this, too.

Don't worry about. worry about the people I answer to. Did Stephen S. Winoza call you? I had to showtime for no reason. Did Stephen Svinosa pick up the telephone, hit you up? Look, me and Steve are on pretty good terms now.

Like Sean O'Malley and Sean Shelby, we talked it out, and we're good now. All right, well, that's good to know. That's good to know. I'm excited for these pre-fight shows in the future. But let's talk about UFC Vegas 35. An interesting event. We had two new Ultimate Fighter Champions.

Daniel Rodriguez gets the biggest win of his career. But Giga Chikaze goes out there and makes a giant statement. He stops Edson Barbosa in the third round. He puts on a show, an absolute clinic with the striking. The guy was on fire, and he gets the biggest win of his career by far. So, Jed, I want to start with you here because you said some things on the show last week that you were fully confident in, and none of those things happened. So your reaction to Chikaze's performance and victory over,

Edson Barboza. Let's calm down with that. Sheise the pronatee. I said two things last week, and one of them did happen. I was extremely right about Daniel Rodriguez versus Kevin Lee. I was also extremely wrong about Gigacizcaf and Edson Barbosa. That's 50%. In the majors, I'd be great about that 500.

I met with this fight. I met with this fight. You were awful and terrible. I was half awful. It was half billion. Uh, thank you. Yeah, so Giga Chikaze impressed the hell out of me is basically it. Like, all in the lead up to this fight, I was pretty confident in Edson Barbosa because

Edson Barbosa has never lost a fight where the fighter consented to, to fight his fight, where he could fight a kickboxing battle at range. Uh, I thought that, yeah, Giga Chikotzi has a, you know, a solid background in kickboxing moitai, but I thought that that was a little bit overblown, um, as, him being the greatest striker that's ever existed. And I just thought that the physical advantages were with Edson. I really liked how Edson's made the cut to 145. It seems like he really does fit and featherweight very well.

And I just thought they were going to have a slow-paced range kickboxing about. And eventually Edson's power and speed would just kind of carry the day there. Also, I thought Edson could grapple with him if he wanted to. Edson, no slots on the ground. But instead, Edson didn't at all try to grapple. and Giga. I will say that Giga was doing good and arguably winning when they were fighting the Edson fight, but he won the bout and looked the best when he just came forward instead of consenting to being on the outside and trading kicks.

As soon as he started pressuring Edson, Edson collapsed. He got hit by a bunch of shots and was hurt and dropped. I just hadn't seen that coming from Giga because that's not usually what he's consented to do. He's been happy to stick on the outside and kind of play. play a touch game and look for the big body kicks and stuff. But yeah, he impressed the hell of me, man, because I did not see that coming. And I have a really, really high regard for Edson Barbosa what he's accomplished in this sport. And so, yeah, Giga, watch out.

Featherweight. Giga's there, man. What did you think, Boom? This is a guy competing in the Boomtumweight division, the quarantine weight class that you fought in many times last year. What did you think of a giga Chikaze? his first main event and the way he came through. I'm only fighting Bannam weights at featherweight.

Let that be known. I'm not fighting these. Right, right, right. These real feather weights here. But, no, I was really impressed. You know, I kind of was on the same page before the fight with leaning towards Barbosa, just more explosive to me, a little bit more devastating with his strikes, you know, and also the way bigger resume.

And Giga comes in and makes a big statement. You could tell in that guy's eyes, like he was there to make a statement, you know, make an example out of Barbosa. And it's, you know, he stayed patient. He was landing good kicks. You know, he did land that body kick a couple times. Just kind of slowly chipping away at Barbosa. And, you know, once you put the forward pressure on Barbosa,

that's when he seems to crumble a little bit. If you can kind of get his back against the cage and get him a little bit overwhelmed, you know, you're seeing guys like Gichi do it. He put hands on him and kept that forward pressure on him. That's when he has downfall. So I was really impressed with Giga. speed too. You know, I didn't expect him to be the faster guy. I thought he looked a little bit faster out there as well. And he's a tall, lengthy featherweight that's going to pose a lot

of issues for those guys over there. I think he's shooting for the stars trying to fight a Max Holloway, but that'd be an interesting fight to see, for sure. So, Brian, when you look at Giga Chikaze right now, especially after that performance, I mean, do you see champion? Like, 145 is loaded. It's a vastly underrated division. It's kind of like where Bannamweight was three or four years ago. Like people didn't really appreciate the depth and some of the up-and-coming talent that

is in that division. And I think Featherweight is kind of in that spot right now. But do you see Chikaze being in the same place as Volcanovsky and Ortega, even the Max Holloways of the world, or is he not quite there just yet? I'd say he's not quite there just

yet. I do see him getting there and challenging those guys. I just, right now, if you ask me if he beats Holloway, I say no. If he asked me if he beats Volcanowski, I say no. We haven't really seen him challenge too much on the ground. I don't know how he reacts to that kind of deal, you know, being taken down over and over. A guy like Volcanowski could do that to him, I feel like if he had to. So I don't think he's there yet, but I think he's on his way. What say you, Mr. Michoudoo, how would he fare against the Volcanovskis, the hallways. I kind of know where you're going with the

Brian Ortega thing because I think you think anybody can be Brian Ortega. It's just the way you view him. But I'm putting words in your mouth a lot this week. I'm putting words in your mouth a lot this week. But what did you think? You can always put the words Brian Ortega sucks in my mouth because that dude sucks.

He's just not good. I can't help that. He loses every fight and then magically wins, except for Crean zombie. But Korean zombie got hurt on like the first punch. So whatever. Dude sucks. everybody else I don't really like Giga's chances at this particular moment is really tough for me to say that this is a dude who's a legitimate title threat I mean he obviously is insofar as he's going to be a top a top 10 guy with a really dangerous skill set but again one of the things we talked about like just because he beat Edson doesn't change all the stuff we said before that fight like he got tapped out on the contender series like two and a half years ago.

Like he's not, he hasn't been tested on the ground a lot. Edson is by far his biggest win and it's a great win, but we didn't see any grappling exchange there. And I need to see that before I can feel any level of confident that he can make a run at the title. And even that, he's 33 and featherweight is the lighter weight class you go, usually the harder it is to age. And he's, he's just starting a real run at the division right now.

It's going to be hard for me to feel confident, especially because I think I view Alexander Volcanovsky in higher regard than most people. I think that dude is one of the best fighters I've ever seen in my life. And he is unbelievably skilled and talented, and his mental game is exceptional. I don't think anybody really registers. Like, that rematch with Holloway is stunningly impressive to me, and nobody talks about how Holloway entirely reinvented himself for their rematch and looked way better and gets a lot of credit for that because he came in, he learned from the mistakes in the first fight.

But Alexander Volcanovsky did that mid-fight. He didn't take a whole fight camp and refer to his coaches. He's like, okay, well, Max has changed things up and after two rounds I'm losing, I need to adjust to these. He did that on the fly and won three rounds on the back end, which is unbelievably impressive against somebody as good as Max Holloway to be able to do that. So I don't think anybody's beating, frankly, I don't think anyone's being Volko for a while.

And so I really don't think Gig is doing it. And especially not, there's just still some unknowns, still need to see what he can do. This guy's not that far removed from winning dubious split decisions over guys who aren't the UFC anymore. Like, great performance, take nothing away from that, but I'm not willing to call him a title contender until I see him do that against more high-level competition than just. just the one. It's a game of inches. I thought he lost to Jamal Emmer's. I thought he lost that fight. Talking about the wrestling and the grappling, I thought he lost, but here we are. Now he's

knocking on the door of top six, seven, maybe even a top five opponent. What's that guy, Jed? Who should he fight now? I mean, honestly, I know it's a little ridiculous for him to have made the Max Holloway call out just because there's a big gap in their ranking. But I don't hate that fight because Max to fight somebody else. If Ortega wins coming up here, then Max will get the first title shot. Like, that's how that will play out. But if he doesn't, and again, Ortega sucks and Volcanovsky one of the best part I've ever seen my life.

So Volcano can win that fight. And at that point, Volko's been pretty clear he doesn't want to rematch Max. Max needs to get some more wins. Max needs to take a win. He was going to fight Yaya Rodriguez, and that fell through. So, yeah, I wouldn't hate a Giga fight. Similarly, if Giga fights, Yair, I'd be. fine if Zabit ever fights again. I don't know where the beat is with that whole thing,

but that would be a great test of his ability to grapple and do things. So anybody in that top five I'd be fine with. He should really not fight Arnold Allen. I think that would be like the one fight that would be a terrible misstep for Giga professionally. But other than that, anybody in that top five, go for it. What do you think, Brian? What's the fight? Giga Chikaze versus blank. I'm thinking Korean zombie. I don't know if he's booked, but he showed a good display of grappling against Igay, who is a really solid grappler. And you know, Korean zombies, he's very well-rounded. Like, he has the striking, too. Like, he'll go to war with you if he has to. So I think that's a good matchup right there to kind of see where Giga's at and testing himself

in all realms of MMA for sure. Yeah, I like that idea as well. They threw him in there with Cater wouldn't hate it, wouldn't love it, but I wouldn't hate it, especially after, you know, the fight Cater just had with Holloway. But I'm a little reticent to watch Cater get teed off on again. Yeah. I don't know that it would happen, but like if that's, that's just one of those fights where Cater, win or lose, Cater's going to take some shots. And I really like to watch him not get punched in the head for a while.

I think a lot of people would agree with you. But I am completely impressed with Chikaze. That was some performance, some showing it's a very, a very violent and underappreciated Edson Barbosa. Yeah, if they did Chikaze Zombie, I think that's a great test. Hell, if Josh Emmett's ready to go before the end of the year, I know

he's been dealing with some hiccups in the recovery process from that crazy fighty out with Shane Burgos. You want to do Giga versus Josh Emmett? I'm down for that one, too, because Josh has that power, but Josh can wrestle like a mofo too. That's a good one. Yeah, they're all good. They're all good.

Featherweight's like lightweight, banim weight. There's no wrong way to eat that. Reese's man. It's true. We'll see where this all goes. With a point for round three goes to GEDMishu. Dead Mishu. Well spoken. Took it on the chin. Well done. So... I get hit in the head for a living, right? I can't speak as smooth as jet over here. I know. It's unbelievable. But... Getting ready for a game means being ready for anything. Like packing a spare stick.

I like to be prepared. That's why I remember 988. Candace suicide crime. Hubline. It's good to know just in case. Anyone can call or text for free confidential support from a train responder anytime. 988 Suicide Crisis Hubline is funded by the government in Canada. Going back to the broadcast, one thing we saw on the broadcast for UFC Vegas 35 this past Saturday, UFC 268 will take place November 6th and it will in fact, at least right now in the year of our Lord 2021 and August 31st take place at the world's most famous arena. Madison Square Garden in New York. Kamar Uzin versus Colby Covington 2, the main event for the Walterway title.

Rosamay Yunus versus Zhang Wei Li 2, not Carla Sparsatoo for the Strawway title and the co-main event. Justin Gagey versus Michael Chandler, Sean Strickland versus Luke Rockhold, Frankie Edgar versus Marlon Vera. GDR is back against Arrina Aldana. and even the return of Reginald Iaquinta taking on Bobby Green. These are all official for the promotions return to MSG. Brian Kelleher will begin with you when you saw this card on your television screen

or on MMAFighting.com. How did you react to it? I thought it was amazing. You know, I thought they really loaded the deck so far. And I hope everything goes smooth and keeps up. But yeah, I was really excited for a lot of these matchups. You know, Colby's obviously given Usman as hard as fight so far. I think that, you know, that is a really highly anticipated rematch right there.

And they'll build the hell out of it, too. And I think, you know, Rose probably should have fought asparza, but I'm interested to see how Wei Li Zhang, you know, comes back off of that knockout, how she faces it mentally, you know, and see if this is a different fight or not. And Luke Rockholds been out for quite some time. I'm excited to see that because, you know, he's fighting a guy that right now is just a lion in there and just careless, reckless, and fun to watch. So that's going to be awesome. What do you think, Jed? Was this a yay, a boo, or an, eh? UFC 268.

I have so many thoughts, Mike. I have so many thoughts. Many of them were positive, but they were all overshadowed. The very first thing I thought when I look at it was, damn, that was a really good fight card. And the second thing I thought was, damn, Trevor Whitman's going to be cut. coach of the year. And the third thing I thought was, damn, the UFC did Carla Sparza. Friggin dirty, man. Frigin dirty. Like, I knew we all saw it coming. So it's hard to be, like, mad about the punch you know is being thrown and you just watch it hit you. But still,

like, doing the immediate rematch, there is almost nothing I hate more in this sport than immediate rematches, even for long-time champions. Like, I didn't think Anderson should have gotten an immediate rematch against Chris Wage. me because you beat the champ, you should get to have that count. You shouldn't have to do it twice for it to stick. Also, we've historically seen that immediate rematches don't usually work out for the person who lost. So I hate it. I was super unhappy that they were going to do it from a principal standpoint. And also just like, look at Wiley Zhang's record. Like, just go check it out real quick. I know that she is a champion. I'm not here to say that she wasn't a deserving champion.

She absolutely was. She beat the hell of Jessica and Josh and got it. Other than that, She really only has like a couple of great wins. It's not like she's cleaned out the division in any respect. She's got Tisha Torres, good win, Jessica Androge, split decision with Yanni and J.Chi. Those are her good wins and then the loss to Rose. Very respectable resume, but it's not like, well, we just have. She's beating everybody else. Who else could we put her in against?

You got plenty of options. And Carlos Sparza did everything right. She is doing everything that you want a person to do. She has five wins since her last loss, all of them over good, ranked opposition, all of them, like she beat Jan Janan, who was, I think, number three at the time or whatever. And clearly, if Yan Shan Shan Han had won that fight, she gets the title fight because make no mistake. This is just the UFC wants a Chinese champion. That's all it is.

We can call it what it is here. They would like to at least have the opportunity to have a Chinese champion because of what that means for their growing business in that market, of the richest, most interesting markets for any business. If Janjan had beaten Carla Sparzo, she got out of the title fight. Because she lost, Asparza doesn't get the title fight, and now Wiley gets thrown it back. And that's not even mentioning the fact that you're running a huge risk with Wiley Jean.

Like, I know that she is super good and has all these wins. Her last two fights are fight of the year, fight of the decade, fight of the ever with Yianjani on J-Chic, which she took a ton of damage in, and then getting colded by Rosamah Hunis in 90 seconds. If she gets got again, that's a really bad run for any combat sports athlete, and you should maybe try not to create situations where this very marketable, very good commodity might just be blown up. Like, I think it's a horrible matchmaking in every sense of the word, and I hate it,

and that took up almost all my focus. But then after that, the rest of it's really cool. I'm not going to talk about the main event because Colby Covington's a coward. he will not come on between the links and challenge me. I've challenged him many times. So I hope you get got Kobe, and then maybe you'll have the stones to step into my arena. Justin Gagey, Michael Chandler is Justin Gates' best fighter in the world,

as far as I'm concerned. I love that man like my own child. So I'll watch anything he does. Sean Strickland, Luke Rockhold, that's going to be something. And I probably will hate most of the talk about between them beforehand, but sure. Frankie Edgar, who doesn't love

a Frankie Edgar fight? Cheetah Vera, wonderful person and fighter, and rage now, Bobby Green. That's like a really good fight that no one's going to care about because the rest of this card's so stacked.

So it's awesome and I can't wait. Brian, what would you rate this on a scale of 1 to 10 right now? Like I said earlier, I think it's like a 9 right now. You need to, you know,

a little bit more flavor. You know, through. What kind of? Throw a little boom in there, a little baldy ed. Man, I think I got plenty of time, you know, so I think it works out perfect timeline-wise. I think they'll throw me in there, you know, just put me on the TV prelims. That'll be nice.

There you go. Last thing. You're trying to get the action with boom. Oh, yeah. Well, we already know. Yeah, we already kind of know. I've only called them out about five times so far. But I've had no luck, man.

He's not mentioning me. He's, you know, he's, but he did say he does want to fight unranked guys. And I'm, I fit the bill. Let's do this. Well, do I need to start calling him out? Because I, I've already given Colby enough smoke and he's just too afraid. I'm happy to throw smoke for other people at any point in time. I have no problem bad-mouthing fighters.

Go ahead. Throw smoke in O'Malley. He's going to, he's going to take the smoke. That's for sure. So throw it, Jed, I want to hear it. Oh, man. I don't know, because this is my verge. I'm not a particular fan of Sean O'Malley,

so this is my verge on personal and mean. Because I respect his belief that he should not fight anybody good. That's a great idea. I don't know you're going to beat anybody good, bro. If you're going to get all the same money and people are going to treat you like a star, cool. I don't get your whole thing.

I'm not sure why you're popular. But I'm not going to hate it. on a man making money. But if I'm a boy, boom, because, yeah, you'll get got. Actually, don't fight boom. That's actually a terrible idea. You will lose, and it will be very unfortunate for you. What did you think of that promo, Brian?

It was beautiful, man. I think, you know what? My last performance doesn't help me because I wrestled the shit out of that guy, and that's probably the last thing O'Malley wants to deal with. So that might have hurt me a little bit there. But you never know. You never know. He said, I get paid the same to fight whoever.

So I think I'm perfect for the fit. We need to just, next time you go out there, because it's not going to be against him because he won't do it, just suck. Be awful. Just be terrible. And then maybe he'll be like, oh, I want to fight that dude next. I've tried that a couple times against some top 15 guys, man. It's not working out. We've got to try it against not top 15 guys.

That's a problem, man. You got to do it against a real can of tomatoes out there. Look, awful against some garbage. and then it'll be like, that's my guy. Yeah. So sold. Let's do Kelleher versus O'Malley. Can you go back to like the regional scene somewhere?

Because then O'Malley might be in. I can backshot, yeah. Are you besmirching the good name of Chris Matineo right now or the UFC? No, Chris Prycee. Press the hell to me. Damn right, he did. A cough and nail. That dude was fire.

Also, props to him. He's going to fight again before O'Malley does because that dude is in. insanely tough. He sure is. So there you go. UFC 268. We will see what will happen. Come November at MSG. Hopefully it all goes according to plan. But the point for round four goes to the man who will hopefully be fighting on that card at UFC 28. Brian Boom-Kelleher with some help from Jed Michoud putting him over the top. We are tied. That means it is time for the knock-go-round. It means it's time for the knock-around. Yes, there could be knockouts when boom,

Keller takes on Sean O'Malley at UFC 268. We'll see if that happens. But one question we'll decide it all for these two gentlemen. They'll each have one minute to answer. Once they do, we will turn it out over to a surprise who we are waiting on right now to render the final decision. And I've been told, it's not Sean O'Malley. but I will say

this person has promised to call it right down the middle. He's got to be even Stephen. It's not Colby Covington. It's not Sean O'Malley, but you'll see who it is in a matter of moment. And we will crown a winner. As a matter of fact,

let's see. No, this is garbage. Yeah, he promised to call it down the middle last time too and he intentionally just cratered me is trash you know he can't he's muted right now but also work two years into a pandemic and sean still can't figure out how to use zoom two things this isn't zoom at sky very different uh not very different at all but also i never promised last time at all to call it down the middle not one not one might actually

I came in immediately saying I'm not going to call this down the middle. I'm coming in with an agenda. But this time I made a promise. I will absolutely call it down the middle. I am unbiased here. It's nice to see Mr. Kelleher. It's been a while. Let's go Phoenix Suns.

Oh, see, that's how you pander to the judge right there. Look at that. That's a pro move right there. All neutral here. I'm Switzerland. I'm ready to hear the arguments. All right. Sean Al-Shott, he's ready to hear this.

one minute on the clock for both these gentlemen. We have to turn it on over to Jedmishu. I'm sure we already know where he's going with this. Champions prerogative. I figured as much. I figured you'd be quaking a little bit. A little bit. All right.

So listen, I have a feeling we're going to be diving more into this card and this topic as the week progresses. But I did want to talk about it and briefly mention it here in this final segment of the program. UFC Vegas 36 is going down this Saturday. And a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about UFC Vegas 34, and Jed Mishu so eloquently sold us on that card being so awful that we should find something else, anything else in the entire world to do besides watch UFC Vegas 34.

It ended up being a pretty entertaining card. But we have this card on Saturday, Brian Kelleher. We have Derek Brunson versus Darren Till in the main event, some very interesting fights. It's an early start time, which I dig. In the next one minute, I need you. you to sell us on this card. Why should we watch UFC Vegas 36 on Saturday? Headlined by Derek Brunson versus Darren Till. We're going to put one minute on the clock. Mr. Kelleher.

Your time starts now. I don't know. I'm lost right now to be honest. I mean, Darren Till is the only reason for me. Like, I want to see where Darren Till's at. I want to see if he's the next challenger for Israel out of Sonia. We haven't seen that fight. You know, Derek Brunton's a guy that could wrestle. He's been fighting really smart. He's been taking guys down and having really good game plans against guys. And I think with Dan's Hill, he'll struggle to do that. But also he got Patty the Batty.

I think that's an interesting guy coming up. They say that this guy's got a lot of hype behind him, kind of like Connor McGregor style. And I'm interested to see him perform. It's been a while. He was supposed to come into the UFC a couple years ago, I think, but kind of stayed patient and waited until now. And that's all I got for you.

I don't know. I don't know what I. I think you sold a couple people, Brian. I think a couple of you were going to watch this card. They may not have thought about it before. Let's turn on over to Jed Michoud. Jed is normally the guy saying relays your tennis shoes, go play pickleball, go be out with your friends as opposed to watching this UFC card.

But here we are. UFC Vegas 36, Brunson versus Till in the main event, some other interesting stories. on this card as well. One minute on the clock, Jed. No one's going. No one's doing anything else. We have to watch this card. Sell us on it. Your time starts now.

This is easy. Look, I'm the guy who tells you not to watch cards. I tell you to go to MMAFighting.com, get the repats, get the highlights, get it all quickly, and then you don't spend it out of your day. Not for this one. This card's awesome. Let's just start right here.

Almost everybody on it has a Wikipedia page. That's right. I know that's crazy in this day and age. Almost every fighter, and one of the few who doesn't is Patty Pimbley, who's another reason to show up. This dude is exciting. People think he's way better than he is, but he is still a fun guy, and he brings an awe and energy that you're going to want to watch. Juliana Rosa, Charles Jordane, Loki Bangor, that fight's going to be insane, featherweight's going at it.

You have the rare occurrence in the co-main event of two heavyweight prospects fighting. When does heavyweight get prospects that aren't 30 or older? Never. We get that going. And the main event. The main event's great because if Derek Brunson wins, he is not going to get a title fight. But if Darren Till wins, he might get a title fight. You don't ever get that dynamic in the world where a man who can only succeed through failure

and a man who cannot succeed despite success are matching up. It's going to be bang. All right. We'll now turn it on over to Shot Al Shadi. Let me just say, if I get the point, this whole thing's rigged. Oh, man. Unreal. All right, Sean.

Tough decision, my friend. Tough decision. I kind of hope you give him the point. Now I kind of just want to give it to Brian. Just to prove that this game is in fact rigged. But I mean, you really didn't try very hard on that answer. I'm not going to lie. He didn't sell me on it.

Kind of to pull the Dana White of just like, yeah, watch it or don't. I don't really care. Go do something else with your life. Who's currently the champion here, Mike? I don't know if I should tell you this. Yeah, Jed is. Okay. I have a, I've decided my winner.

Okay, let's hear it. I'm doing some dramatic pause for effects, you know? Oh, okay. And the winner? And still! Jed Mishu! Wow! This is, and he got the Sean Al-Shoddy rub,

which might mean more than the win itself, Jed. Is that accurate? You know, me and Sean have a, hate-hate-hate relationship, and so it's not getting any better. But I appreciate that he did call it down the line. I would have loved to see what he said had Brian not come out and basically commanded him to choose me, because I don't know if that helped to hurt me.

But Brian, I respect you, sir, for being an honest man, playing the game the right way. I'm a humble, humble guy, man. I got to be honest with it. That's just good character, is what that is. Character reveals itself in the hard times. That's right. Jed, 30 seconds, my man. Whatever you want to talk about. The floor is yours.

Look, I'm only to talk about one thing, and it's Colby Covington. Where are you at, man? I've been calling you off for months. You're about to go get your ass beat by one dude. Come take a verbal beat down ahead of time. Then you can be ready for it. You can be prepared. Look, I promise this. I will help you combat Kamala Ustner on the mic because God knows you need the help.

So come to me. You take this work, take the L, and then we'll. we can workshop and we can get your game tight you're still going to lose in the cage we can make people interested and you can get that bag baby well so tremendous stuff brian i appreciate you coming on my man anything you want to say to the peace before we wrap up the program here no thanks a lot man thanks for having me on it was fun good stuff jett um yeah um o'mallie let's go man November 6th. What are you waiting for? Man, I'm not ranked. I'm not ranked.

I'm old. I'm 35. I'm washed. Come on. Let's do this. Sign the contract, Sugar. Let's go. Sign the contract. And, Sean, thank you for coming on. I have a feeling you're going to have a very busy week more on that. Can you reveal anything? Anything at all?

I cannot. And actually, we have had a few change of plans. So actually, I can't reveal anything. Okay, okay. What kind of your post? Tuesday. Stay tuned to MMAfighting.com, ladies and gentlemen, surprises galore. Changes are coming.

Who knows? But that's it. We're getting out of here. Between the Links is wrapped. Again, we are on Tuesdays. From here on out, Tuesdays is where you can find BTL right here on the MAMA Fighting Podcast Network, wherever you find your favorite podcast. So for Brian Kelleher, shot out of shoddy on the judging the champion, Jen Mishu.

I am Mike Heck. We'll see you back here next week once again between the links. Good night, everybody. network.