MMA Fighting - BTL | Adesanya Gets Revenge At UFC 287, Pereira To 205, Paul vs. Diaz, UFC Kansas City

Episode Date: April 13, 2023

Israel Adesanya brutally knocked out Alex Pereira in the main event of UFC 287 this past Saturday, and while many believe a third UFC fight between the two should happen next, Pereira has changed the narrative a bit.  On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss Adesanya's incredible highlight against his longtime rival, Pereira moving up to 205, and what's next for the once again champion. Additionally, they'll discuss fallout of the rest of the UFC 287 card, Jake Paul vs. Nate Diaz set for the boxing ring in Dallas on Aug. 5 and what the interest levels seem to be, Saturday's UFC Kansas City card — most notably the main event between Max Holloway and Arnold Allen, and the stakes for both men in the highly anticipated featherweight bout — and more.  This week, MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew banter about the top stories in combat sports and beyond. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Like leftovers at midnight, our Black Friday offers won't last. Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca slash Black Friday. IKEA, bring home to life. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From M.MA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, My The iconic voice of Esther Lynn

welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. We are live on this Thursday early afternoon coming off of a storyline ridden fallout of UFC 287 in Miami, Israel Adasania regaining

the middleweight title with a vicious knock a win. A man he defeated apparently is no longer a middleweight. Jorge Mazdaul retired. Gilbert Burns admits he kind of fumbled the bag a little bit, but he is stepping back a little bit with those statements. We have a strange boxing match to talk about.

It's just another week in the world of combat sports. But thank you for joining us. No competition this week. But I'm happy to be joined to talk some combat sports with Mr. No Gray area, the exhibition king, the co-host of No Bet's Bard, the man behind Damn, they were good, and so much more. I'm sure the takes will be extra spicy.

Let us say hello to Kansas City's Jed Mishu, at least he will be tomorrow. Hello, sir. Kansas cities, hey, Mike. How are we doing, fellas? Let's talk about some things. Busy week. Yes, it is a very busy week.

So let's just get right into it because obviously you were on the post-fight show following UFC 287. So we kind of had the immediate reaction. And we'll talk about what this all means and what the now former champion had to say earlier today and what his future, at least for the, Short term looks like, but Israel Adasanya knocks out Alex Pereira,

185 pound champion once again. There's a lot of talk in the aftermath. Trilogy fight probably not going to happen. Izzy thinks he kind of did the job. Pereira needs to go back to the drawing board, get some wins, then maybe he'll do it again, all of this. But let's just talk about the finish in the fight, Jed. It's been five, six days since it all went down.

How do you feel about it now? We know how you felt about it right after the fact, but now the time has passed, this UFC 287 hangover continues to linger, maybe more than any other fight card that I could remember in the past year or so. Thoughts on the finish, the performance, all of it now that we've had some time to digest it.

I mean, it's still a great finish, a great performance. I have been interested as I watched the kind of narratives unfold afterwards, because I don't know if it's just me, if this didn't resonate as much, but like there are a lot of big phrases being thrown out about this. And I think it's an incredible performance.

Obviously, Izzy reclaims the title and it looks for all intensive purposes, like we aren't going to be continuing this rivalry for the time being, which I've argued is a good thing. But it, just a lot of like

over adoration for what happened to some extent. And I don't know if I'm just being a turd in the punch bowl or not, but I'm like, hey, it was a great win. Great performance. Like, I'm not here to take anything away from him. But like, I don't, this, I don't, this doesn't feel like something that I'm going to look back on in like 20 years, but like that is a seminal moment in the sports history. And I'm hearing a lot of people talk like that. And I was like, I think it's just a phenomenal win. And personally for him, you know, one of the defining moments of his career, but that's not the, I don't think that's going to be the knockout

of the year that will probably get some consideration. And I think this is just one of those things that we'll look back on and say, man, that was really cool. It was a great moment, a great performance. Great to see as he get the belt back. But it won't be like, this has changed everything. And I've seen some of that talk. And that's been very interesting to me to watch that unfold. Yeah, I see a lot of comparisons to the Leon Edwards knockout of Kamar Uspin. And I don't think they're all that similar. I think the Leon one will be one of those all-time great moments. That's a Mount Rushmore moment.

Like when we talk about why we love this sport and why the sport is where it is today, it's moments like that. Like nobody saw a come in. This is out of nowhere. On the brink of defeat, boom, kicks him in the face, knockout. Guy who works so long and so hard to get. to a title does all of these things. But we're saying in the whole buildup to this fight,

like Adasania was the favorite in it. Adasania was the favorite of the fight. We're all saying he's due. Everybody on our site picked Israel Adasanya publicly to win this fight. And yeah, it was a very cool moment. It's a very cool highlight. When Bobbo O'Reilly is playing on the loudspeakers before the main card, that knockout is going to be there.

And it's going to be there forever. But in terms of like changing and all-star moments, like the elite moments and the history, of MMA and the history of the UFC, it's a very cool moment. It's top 30 maybe, but it's not like a Mount Rushmore moment like Leon knocking out Camaro in the fifth round

on the brink of defeat. Yeah, and I think that's kind of where I'm disconnected because it feels like people are saying that. And I just don't think that's it at all. And I don't know entirely where that comes from, like where that feeling for them comes from or where my like, I don't know, you guys are talking about is rooted in because

to me, I'm not surprised that Izzy did this. As you said, we picked him to win. And even if he had gone to lose that fight, even Pereira had not gotten caught there and the body shot had folded Izzy up, I would not have left that fight thinking, well, Izzy just can't

beat this man. I've been like, well, he got a bit unlucky in the four competitions, but I've seen them fight a bunch. I know that they they can do this to each other. And that's been my, I've been the most, the loudest proponent of not running this back for our website. And we talked about it on the ranking show this week. And my sort of biggest point of contention on this is just like, I know this fight now.

There will always be new wrinkles and new developments. That's what you get when you have two extremely high level fighters facing off who are evenly matched and have different tools and things they can go to. I will of course watch them run this back if they do it. I watch the other four might as well. But at the end of that fifth fight, there won't be a resolution. Regardless of who wins, I won't come out of it thinking he's simply the better guy. I'll come out of it thinking these guys are still just razor close together. And depending on the day of the week, that's how it'll go. And for me, I'm fine leaving this

rivalry here. We can really call it a rivalry as he does now have a win. I'm fine just being like, hey, this is as good an endpoint as any for this. And let's move on to new business for at least a little while because this, that felt like a good

moment, a great moment. The best highlight of Izzy's career, I would argue. And that's all of that that's good, but it's not, this isn't transcendent to me. It probably is for him because It's a cathartic moment. But we are not him.

And so seeing it being ascribed as this all-time moment has been, which is very interesting because I can't tell if I'm wrong or if everybody is way too caught up in the now. I'm like, oh, that was just so exciting. And so to me, it never hit like that. And almost immediately my reaction was like, dude, sick win, great celebration. Cool. like that's that is a big moment for him and everywhere else I turned it was like this is this is it this is the end all be all this is the greatest thing that's happened this year will be defined by

this knockout and I am extremely not confident that the year 2023 is defined by Israel this in knocking out Alex Pereira yeah it's an interesting point that you bring up and and I'm not taking anything away from honest night it's a great win it is a defining moment for him when is he's retired today? This should be the best moment of his career. This should be the one where he exercised the demons. This is a massive moment for him, but... I think at any point in time,

if he wins six more, if he defends about six more times, when it's all said and done, this is that moment for him, almost assuredly. If you talk to him when he's 50 and looking back on his career and say, what's the best moment,

he's going to pick this one because of all the internal built up for him, which I understand, but the disconnect I have is everybody else treating it like that? When this feels much more of an intimate, personal moment of triumph for him than it feels as like,

like I said, a transcendent moment for the sport writ large or for our fandom. I think the more transcendent moment for Izzy was when he knocked out Robert Whitaker. That was like, this division is, is now in his hands.

Like, that changed everything. Historically, I think that's a much bigger moment, yes. Yeah, 100%. The way that fight went, got Whitaker to fight his sort of brawling style, aisle, like, he lured him into a brawl. And Izzy dropped him in the first and then just colded him in the second. Like, I just, that to me is a more history has changed in this sport moment than this win over

Alex Pereer. Not taking into the way from what happened on Saturday because it was impressive as hell, but transcendent is the key word here. Let me ask you a question, Mike, because I've seen people come down on both sides of the aisle on this one. Izzy obviously said afterwards that he was playing possum, do you agree? Have you rewatched it? Do you think he's playing possum, or is that just one of those things that people say,

because that's how the fight game works? Like, I don't know if I have a good answer for this. Like, I'm not, I will take him at face value that that's what happened. And I can see through the evidence of it that that could be true. But to me, it's just like, I don't know what's the truth or not. To me, like, I see semblance of there being fact to that. I don't know if that was to him saying, like, oh, this is, this is it. This is the time for me to rope it open play possum.

Not sure if that's the case, but is he getting rib-roasted. Maybe it's not hurting him as much. Maybe halfway through that flurry. He's like, all right, maybe I will do this now. You know what I mean? Like, I could see that. But I don't know if this is like, I'm going to put my back against the fence and like, I'm hitting play.

This is the moment where I lure him into a false sense of security. And then boom, I'm just going to land a right hand and knock him on. I saw this coming from a mile away. So mostly more yes than no, but I'm not 100% on either side if that makes sense. That's fair. No, and I think I'm there with you. To me, initially when he said it, I just thought he's full of shit. And I've rewatched it.

And I think that there's certainly a kernel of truth there. I do think he was hurt. I don't think he just started backing up to the fence that this was entirely the plan from Jump Street a la Muhammad Ali. I think he was a bit compromised and he started giving ground. but unlike the last time they fought there was a clear plan of attack when he gave ground and it was not to go for the clinches that he did

in the first MMA fight try and clinch and circle off the cage it was stand ground fire back and back him off we saw that earlier in the fight at various points and I think I don't think that he was on the brink of being finished at that point he still clearly had his eyes up was looking so I think that there's a bit of both to it

And maybe that's part of what is coloring this, is that people are taking it at a much more face value, that this is a, you know, Ali Foreman-esque performance of, here's this guy who already had three knockouts, and now he, through wit and guile, ropedops him and then gets a sensational finish. Maybe that's what's coloring the perspectives here. And maybe that's why I can't connect in the same way that others are.

So we were wondering what the aftermath would be for the now former middle-aid champion. And will they do the trilogy? Will you stay at 185 for one more and get that big bag of money? Dana White said, nope, it's probably going to 205. Don't quote me on that, but don't be surprised. And Shaheen Al-Shadi and I were sort of on the same page. You've got to do the trilogy unless there's one thing that happens. And that is what happened earlier today or late last night.

Alex Pereira announces, I'm moving up to 205. I'm doing this. It's not because I can't make the wait, just essentially time for. new challenges and moving up to 205. So, what was your reaction that less than a week later, he comes out and he makes the decision, I'm going to 205, bye, bye, middleweight, at least for now. My initial reaction was to laugh and be like, we just were talking all about this and everybody's coming down so firmly on the Pereira side and just like, oh, good, well,

you've all lost now because he's not doing it. my second is somebody had to have talked to him it seems very weird for this to be an entirely organic decision on his part to be like well I'm not going to do this because very clearly his path back to a title shot is the quickest route to a title shot for him is simply to stay a middleweight and argue and lobby for the trilogy fight in an MMA in their fifth fight overall

particularly because so many people are already arguing for it there's a baked-in storyline. There isn't another super clear-cut contender. All of that makes way more sense. And even the way in his quote, I'm paraphrased because I don't have in front of me was, you know, he said something about we'll see how Izzy behaves because I can always come back if I can make wait tomorrow or whatever. He is leaving the door open.

This is not a I can't do it. This is, to me, this feels like somebody from the UFC spoke to him and said, we're not going to run this right back. So your choices are going to be fight a Marvin Vittory, fight a Robert Whitaker, fight one of those guys next because we are,

we're moving on to new business. And if that's the case, then I do think 205 makes total sense for him. There's just, there's much more more road to hoe up there, right? Like the risks are greater.

Certainly you're moving up a weight class, but the rewards are much greater. And to some extent, the risks are less, are a little bit limited because if he goes up and Jan Belhovic, you know, tackles him to the floor, well, okay, lose the Jan Blahovich. You know who else did that? Israel disinia and he lost the 205. It doesn't ruin his 185 standing to move up a weight class and catch an L or two. But if they are saying, hey, you got to fight Marm Vittori next, that's a tough fight. That is a difficult out

for him. And if he loses, then all title aspirations are pretty much gone. So to me, my My read on this is that the UFC just point Blake told him he's not getting the next one. Is he doesn't want to do it. He was pretty clear about that in his post-fight interview. They're moving on. And so he is going to make the correct career decision for him and move up. Because if he goes up to 205, I doubt he gets a title shot immediately. But he's one win away, right?

He goes up and he fights Alexander Rackich or Anthony Smith or, you know, any of those dudes, any of those top fiveish guys and gets a win. I could easily see the UFC throwing him in a light heavyweight title fight very, very quickly. Okay, so when I saw this news, and you can bring Jed back on the screen here, because I worked this out with myself on heck of a morning, and I was like upset with myself from the post-fight show on Saturday, because me and Shaheen are both standing on the corner with signs screaming, how dare you take this third fight away from us? this is a thing that makes all the sense in the world.

Nothing else makes sense for Alex Pereira in his career trajectory right now than to run this one back. So the biggest fight he can get. And then I realized after this news and kind of talking it out with myself and people asking questions like matchmaking with suggestions that you mentioned, Alexander Rackich, Nikita Krilylov, Anthony Smith,

Johnny Walker. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm just like, why would he move up to 205 to fight either of those? those guys when they could figure out a way to do this trilogy fight, which would be massive, which by the way, over a five-month span did almost $25 million in box office at MSG and Miami, not to mention the pay-per-view buys and all of that. So here's where I landed,

and I want to get your thoughts on this. Where I landed was Yuri Perashka ain't coming back anytime soon. The UFC is worried that his injury, that Perashka's timeline, he was very, very optimistic, perhaps too optimistic that he would be able to return sometime, maybe in the fall, perhaps the follow-up appointments were not great, and they do not think. Shoulders are messy. And the UFC is hesitant in even, like, sprinkling the idea

of a Jamal Hill versus Yuri Perashka fight at this moment because Yeri may not be coming back. So what's the alternative? here. The alternative is we could do Jamal Hill versus Magam and Kaliath. That is going to do about 36,000 pay-per-view buys. We could do Jamal Hill versus Janbovich. That might

do 136,000 pay-review buys. Or we can let Alex Pereira heal up a little bit and we already have promotional material ready to go as the backup plan. If Yerry can't come back, we do Jamal Hill. We do Jamal Hill versus Alex Pereira.

The storyline is there with the Glover stuff. Pereira moves up. If he wins the belt and beats Jamal Hill, guess what we can do next, Jed? We can move Izzy back up. We could do the trilogy fight, maybe before the end of the year, if all works out. So to me, the biggest thing that this led to me, and I have no insight to this whatsoever, is I think the UFC's worried they're not going to be able to get Yereper Haska back this year, and they have no interest in putting Jamal Hill in a title fight with anybody else.

But now Alex Pereira has somehow emerged as a potential plan for a fun fight with some, actual storyline to it, as opposed to doing Ancolaia for Behovich, which doesn't seem like a fight. Fans are clamoring for, you know what I mean? So that's where I landed on. Do you see anything to that? I do think, I certainly think the end point feels right. I think the idea of doing a third fight between these two at light heavyweight has a big amount of cachet for the, for the 205-pound belt for the UFC. So I'm fully on board with that.

I would like to say we exist in a world where there's no way Alex Pereira would get a light heavyweight title fight with zero wins in the weight class inside of the UFC coming off of a loss and not just a loss of definitive soul-crushing loss where he got sent to the shadow realm. But I can't say that with confidence. We all know what this is. and it ain't sport. That could be possible. I would still put the odds of it at like 25%. It still seems unlikely because I don't think, yes,

there's a baked in storyline. I don't know or believe that Pereira is really a star in the way that's going to move the needle in any regard. And so even with a bit of a storyline there, I just don't, I don't think you're getting too much. juice for the squeeze here. And that's, I think the UFC will look at all options.

That is certainly one they'll consider. And my best guess is they look at it and say, look, the sad reality of this is whatever our next light heavyweight title fight will be. It's not going to be a mover. It's simply not going to move the needle. There is nobody in this weight class that's going to do it save maybe a Prohashka fight and that we're going to have to at least wait till the fall, if not till the new year. So I think they're going to end up biting the bullet and they will do Jamal Hill.

Isn't Anthony Smith fighting somebody? Johnny Walker. Yeah. Honestly, it would not at all shock me if Anthony Smith comes here and beats Johnny Walker and they just say, we will do Jamal Hill, Anthony Smith, for all the reasons you kind of pointed out. There's not a big push for Ancolaev or Blahovic to get it. I know that there's not a huge push for them to run that back, but those two men, and Alexander Rackich all really need a win

before they can really be a super-sellable main event or even a marginally sellable one. Anthony Smith, they like him. They give him a lot of opportunities. He's a dude who can maybe try and drum up some interests with Jamal Hill. They were supposed to fight until Hill got shotgunned into a title fight. My best guess is that all parties look, the UFC looks at all options, comes down and says,

if Anthony Smith gets past Johnny, Walker, which I do think he will. We're just going to run Anthony Smith into a title shot with Jamal Hill. He's a perfectly fine stopgap title contender. If he wins the belt, great. That's a moment. People will be excited for Anthony Smith to have won the belt. If he loses, Jamal Hill's got a little bit more traction under him.

Great. And maybe we'll put all three of these fights on the fight card. But we will take Alex Brewer, Jan Blahovich, Magermanankaliev, and Alexander Rackich. and we will just throw them all on this same fight card with that inevitable title fight and the winner, whoever is the most impressive, we'll get the next title crack. And then by the time all of this is settled, then hopefully Prahashka will actually be back ready to rumble and we can fire him in against whoever still has the belt at the end of all of this. And now for Izzy, now the big talking points off the table, the trilogy is done, at least for right now,

if he's going to kind of continue on this road. I mean, look, you have stated your case for for Drickus Duplice to get this title shot. I am not really. It is, it is, it could be pretty funny. I just don't think that fights all that competitive if we're being honest. I don't know, I don't know what they're going to do here. I honestly have no clue. Do you really think after all this, they're just going to be like DDP go or you?

I think he's, I think he is the, I think he's leader in the clubhouse right now. Is there a world where the UFC just says, look, international fight week, like, I love me some Volcanovsky and Yair. We got Brandon Moreno, Pantosia. Is there a world? And again, this is the UFC who is about to close this big merger and they want to look good and profitable for the potential stockholders of this new combined public offering between the UFC and WWE. Is there a world where they're like, you know what, Izzy wants to fight in July? let's just throw them in there with Sean Strickland. Just for the hell of it.

We'll just get him on the card, throw them in there with Sean Strickland. Any world that happens. No? I think that's like less than 5%. If I'm apportioning percentages, I think DDP from, I thought I was of the opinion that they were going to run back Pereira. I didn't like it.

You guys know my stance on immediate rematches. I just generally don't like them in almost any circumstance whatsoever. though I do tolerate them in trilogy fights still don't like them. I thought that that's where they're going to go. The moment I woke up this morning and read the Pereira was like, I'm out, I'm not doing that. The betting markets, if I were in charge of them, would heavily favor DDP to get the next one. Because it's a three-horse race, and it's really a two-horse race. Sean Strickland is a 40-1 just nag at the back of the pack just.

just can't do it. I don't have any belief that he's there. I think it's if Whitaker can convince somebody somehow that because he's certainly the biggest name, the most well-known, he's got the two losses, but if he can convince him, he's, he's parroting the line. It took Izzy four shots to be Pereira. It'll only take me three, which credit him. It's a good line.

I don't buy it, but it's a good line. If he can maybe build some momentum there, he's, I would say, the next one. is an outside shot for Hamzaa Chimayev just because Chameh, which I think sell the most pay-per-views. By the mile. Yeah, like people, I mean, we did a poll on our roundtable, and Chameh was shockingly ahead, despite the fact that he's, you know,

hasn't done much in the weight class, unless we're counting his 190-pound fight or whatever the hell was against Skimald. Whatever that dumb fight was. Like, it's, he's, he's probably got a, pretty good chance just because in a world war merit has no relevance. Chameh of is somebody they can sell and somebody who will move the needle.

I do think, though, that it's that DDP is, it will depend a little on the timeline. If they're trying to get this for Fight Week, I know DDP, that's going to be too early for them. But it seems like they've got international fight week lined up. They've got two title fights on that card. I know they're targeting, you know, they're going to have some more stuff coming up down in August. that sort of sinks with DDP's timeline. And look, they've, they got, they can sell that fight. DDP is going to continue to say hilariously stupid shit if you put a microphone in front

of him and ask him to explain himself. And he's going to, that was my favorite interview in months, Mike. I, my easily my favorite interview of this entire year. Because God bless Ariel, he is trying to pin DDP down and he can't, I'm not saying. I am I when did I ever say it? I never said that I was more African than him. I never said they weren't African. I just said that I'm going to be the first guy who was born in Africa and still lives in

Africa and breathes African air and is going to bring the belt back to Africa. I'm not saying I'm more African than him. But if you look at our postal codes, who are you sending mail to in Africa? it's not him. He said that like seven times and I was dying. Because he all like immediately before every time. He prefaced it. I'm not saying I'm more African than him.

I'm just saying he doesn't live in Africa. Is that wrong? Am I telling a lie? No, I'm not. It's like you understand how this could be like maybe a bad look with a white South African man telling this. Like, oh, bringing race in it is just nonsense. Like, okay, but like you recognize how the world works.

He's either the world's greatest troll or astonishingly oblivious. Either way is incredibly funny. And look, I know New York, Rick has been on the corner and other people have privately that the MMA fan base is not ready for that buildup. And I disagree. I mean, I agree that. I agree that they're not ready. But sometimes you got to drag them kicking and screaming into the light.

And I want to see it. Like, he is by far the most. heat of any possible opponent for Adasanya is DDP. Certainly not the name recognition that Hamzaa has or whatever, but I think if they announce this fight, you're not going to hear one bit of blowback. And I'm like, DDP doesn't deserve it because it's, one, deserve doesn't matter. And two, why not? He has multiple wins in this weight class over people.

The UFC still has ranked, even though we don't necessarily agree with those. Derek Brunson, who's still like a top, certainly a top 10 fighter in their rankings, but like a top seven guy or whatever, finish wins over him until established names with a story to tell and sell. Like, I think he's the leader right now. I would say Hamzad is number two and Whitaker is a little bit behind and he's really got to try and generate some interest by hook or by crook because that's how I see this shaking out right now. I only mentioned Strickland not because I think, like, if they did this fight in September and Strickland came up, that makes no sense. It would have to be fight weekend. That's it. It's the only way that makes sense.

Just because of how that was built up last year, if Izzy want, they want to put Izzy on that card, that's the only reason why threw Strickland's name out there. Because Homestat's probably not going to fight on that card. I think that I just think they go Whitaker over Strickland. If they're just going based on date, I think they would offer it to Whitaker first. and Whitaker is not in a position to be like, can't do it. Because if he says, no, he doesn't get a type of point. That's a good point. That's a good point.

So I'm still not sold on DUDE. Strickland can get one, but the only way Strickland gets one is if he just is willing to fight short notice and somebody falls out. And I know he is willing to fight that. It's just if the cards are going to have to break. That's why I'm not saying zero, but it's like he's a 40 to one nag at the back of the pack. Some things are going to have to really break right.

for him to come, come through. And I think at this moment, with Pereira saying he's out, it feels like DDP has the lead. Oh, man. This might happen. And if they go to, maybe, oh, no. It's also, that fight also makes a ton of sense in like a lot of, outside of the narrative and the horrific build, which will be hilarious.

This was the argument I made, and I don't know if it got cut out of the ranking show or not, because we won't pretty long. But it was just like, we've all forgotten it because of what the way Pereira unfolded. There was a major backlash against Izzy coming into that fight, a la Prime Era Anderson Silva, about he's way too cautious. He is, he's just coasting over people. He's barely beating Jared Canaanier. I mean, he's never in fear of losing a Canaaner, but it's not the fight you want. And we've all forgotten it because the Pereira fights were obviously magical.

but he's going to go back to be exactly the same way. If you put him in there against Whitaker, again, it's going to be the exact same Whitaker fight. If you put him in there against Vittori or Paula Costa, like these fights are going to unfold the same way. DDP is good, the exact kind of guy who is going to make Izzy fun because he is just going to launch himself forward and Izzy's just going to clang him up.

It's going to be incredible theater. It's going to build him up. Like if I am here, if my entire goal is I would like to build Israel Adisina to be the biggest star possible, it's DDP with a bullet. It's the most winnable fight against the guy who he has legitimate, genuine beef with who will sell it. DDP is going to continue to talk, whether you agree or disagree with him. He will be out there.

He will say things. He will feel himself. And Izzy most likely gets a chance to shut him up emphatically and kind of, of continue to build and rebuild the aura of invincibility after the Pereira knockout loss. So I think it makes all the sense in the world from just about every angle, particularly with Pereira, out of the picture. Well, we might see a fight poster and you're going to do a nice little victory lap because you called this from the beginning. This is the corner you've been standing on for a while. So I'm sure we'll get more information on this whole situation and where both of these guys go, but...

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Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ.

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But it was the aftermath from Gilbert Burns that had people kind of scratching their heads, because Gilbert's usually a pretty straightforward guy. If you follow him on Twitter, wakes everybody up with a good morning tweet, go get the day. kick the day's butt, all that. Then at the post fight, accuses Jorge Mazdov, greasing, has since apologized for that. Then he said, it's title shot,

or I'm the backup, or release me for my contract, and then does an interview at Sirius XM and said he was bluffing so hard with all of this. And I thought the post-fight stuff was a whiff and a half, considering the performance

wasn't all that great, if we're being honest, against Jorge Mazel, who clearly had a foot out the door, but maybe he gets what he wants in the end and ends up as the backup. I don't know, but five days later, after this win over Mazadol, how does Gilbert Burns' stock look to you right now? I'd like to take this opportunity, Mike, to, again, reach out to all the fighters of the world with an offer. And it's an offer I've made

a couple of times before. The Jedmushu fighter consulting services are available. My DMs are open. Feel free to slide on into them. I will tell you what to say after fights, because all of you, appear to be terrible at it. Izzy, I mean, Izzy should have called out DDP instead of what he did, because if he did,

we wouldn't be having that previous conversation and be like, is DDP with a bullet? We've got to build. Let's get going. Gilbert Burns did something similar. He just, I don't know what he was doing.

The idea of being a backup fighter is at least like he may have gotten himself that, so you can't give him a full-blown F because Dana at least suggested, sure we could have him be the backup fighter, which is more than nothing. Maybe not much more than nothing, but it is more than zero.

But on the watch party, I know who were you calling for on the watch party and we're watching this year? Belal, were you pro ball? It was in the crowd. In the crowd. In the crowd. We're in a Colby shirt. Below being in the crowd is not a bad one.

I thought, and what I had hoped for, particularly the way he started his speech, by saying I'm the guy who will fight the people he don't want. I think that's a great line. I think that's a line to take and build on because he took the Hamzaa fight when not a lot of other people would. I think he should have followed it up by saying,

I'm the guy who fights the people you don't want. There's an, I already fought Hamza. I should have won. I got robbed. I'll fight the other dude. You got another guy coming up that everybody says is the future of this division. Frankly, Hamzaat's not in this division anymore

and I'll beat that guy. Shafkaoamanov, you and me for a title fight, let's go. And you do that, you're going to get that fight because the UFC's going to give you the UFC will give whoever's going to call Schofcott out a fight particularly if they're above Shopcott and you say for a title fight well frankly you beat Shafcott you're on a three fight win streak or is it two or three at

this point three now there'd be three that would be three right yeah you know a big no because um yeah Magnin Neil and Mazadol right do you be yeah no no no no he'd be magni he'd be Magni Mosidol and then it would be Shafka would be the third. Okay, you're right, there we go. Because Stephen Thompson was before Hamzai. That was Shafka to be Jeff Niel. Yeah, yes, correct. But you're on a three-fight win streak over top five guys in

the division. Your one loss is a fight of the year candidate that you have an argument for winning, even if you didn't. Like, that's a title fight. And you could have earned it with a bullet and, you know, staked your claim in a way that can't be taken from you. And theoretically,

have subverted somebody like Bilal Muhammad, depending on where the UFC goes and if Bala gets where he wants. So I thought that's what he should have done. But he could have done anything else other than what he did, which was pretty bad. So I don't, I think Gilbert Burns is at least one fight away. And at this point, maybe two, depending on if Balaal is going to get the Ustman fight that seems like there's at least some traction building towards.

If Bala gets that and wins, then Balaal is a thousand percent getting a title fight. If he loses, then that still keeps Burns one one away. So he's, but now he's, he is taking the initiative away from himself, right? Like he, he no longer controls his own destiny. And that's the biggest part of the mic, right? Like, you can say this stuff that you're saying this week and try and backtrack it. But you have a minute and a half to two minutes after a win to control your own destiny in this sport. And that's the only time you have it because you speak it into existence and a lot of the damn time it will come true.

Maybe you have to speak it into existence multiple times. Michael Chandler had to howl into the microphone every time he was near one. Connor McGregor, I want to fight you. Damn it if he isn't getting that Connor McGregor fight down the line. Gilbert Burns should have spoken to existence a thing that is reasonable. And instead, he said something that very obviously was never going to work and then is now has to backtrack immediately, which makes me real, like, we all know that this wouldn't work. He should have known at the time he effed up and he knows that he effed up and you can't get that one back.

So again, any fighters out there, you got a big fight coming up. You're like, I'm going to win because you're a fight. You think so. Reach out to me. Well, we can work through it. We'll workshop some ideas. I will give you an exact script to read after you win. So you will make an appropriate call out and do the thing.

because not doing the thing is only hurting your career and we see it time and time again. And it happens at Walter Wade. Walter Wade is like the biggest division of the not doing the thing. I love it. I love to not do the thing at Walterweight. Huge fans. And Bantam White. And Bantam White.

Really? I'm trying to think of people who did do the thing recently. Corey Sannhagen did the thing. Corey Sannhagen did the thing. That was perfect. Corey Sannhagen nailed it. Absolutely. No notes.

10 out of 10, no notes from Corey St. Tangaygan. That's how you do the thing. Take a lesson, guys. Raul Roses Jr., Jed. We didn't give Mr. Roses Jr. and Christian Rodriguez a ton of time on the post-fight show because there's so much happening. It was also, yeah, but it was like 4 a.m. as well.

So obviously, he loses to Christian Rodriguez. It's unfortunate that Christian missed weight. I think that kind of hurts the momentum he could have gotten off of this. He's gotten some. You get the Ariel Hawani MMA hour rub. It's always a good thing, but missing weight stinks. He missed weight for the contender series fight as well. Hopefully he gets that all figured out.

But we've heard different pundits and different media members and different experts in the field, sort of give their takes on Raul Roses Jr.'s performance. Obviously, a great first round. Lost it in rounds two and three. Christian Rodriguez gets the win, and now there's a lot of blame going around, different things.

Should they have done this? Do they get pushed too fast? Did he do this? blah, blah, blah. Where are you at now with Raul Roses, Jr. on this Thursday following the 18-year-old's first loss of his career this past Saturday? Dude, same place I've been the whole time. Like, don't hire 18-year-olds. This is what's going to happen every single time.

Like, I'm not here to throw dirt on Rale Roses Jr.'s grave. He's 18 years old and he has talent. He will probably be a part of our lives. for a decade or more. It's not guaranteed because we've seen almost every single time the UFC has done this with a super young person and men like this guy's the future,

where are they now? They're still in the sport, they're still competing, but Chase Hooper is, nobody considers him a legitimate title threat at this stage of his career and has suffered so many bad losses that the idea that he ever fights for a title

seems extremely suspect. Sage Northcutt is in one, making good money, but no one thinks he's a top 25 dude in the weight class or ever will be. Like it's, they just, you can't do, development isn't linear in any sport and certainly not in this one. People grow and change at different rates,

and some of them don't ever grow at all. It's the same. When people used to be like, dude, we just give that guy six months sprawl training, and Alex Pereira is going to be a monster. He might never learn how to wrestle. There are some people just can't get certain parts of the game.

That's why I have all said you shouldn't have hired the 18 year old. And oddly salient, Sean Amalley's not a dummy, right? And I'm going to quote him here. I pulled it up because I wanted to make sure I had it right. Sean Amelie is not a dummy. I don't agree with a lot of things that he says or a lot of his view towards life in some respects. but he spoke about Rao Roses Jr. And here's the quote,

there's definitely guys in the division. He can go out there and beat, but I don't even think he needs to go out there and get a win. He needs to go out there and get better. Two years. Take two years off, lift and grind. Just get good. Don't fight for a couple of years.

Get good. Effing, improve everywhere. Come back when you're 20 years old. That's like unbelievably good advice. That's exactly correct. because, yeah, you can find people that he can beat. Like, that's sort of the nature of this promotion and game. But that's not going to be improvement.

Improvement's going to happen in the gym. It's not really going to happen in the cage. And the cage, particularly at this point of his career, is likely to instill bad habits in him, ruin his mentality, which is super bad. Like, he just needs to get out and get better. And the truth is, he is never going to be a world champion anyway. Set up before. said it before this fight and this loss.

Yeah, he looks like he's got talent. But when I watch him compete, there is nothing to me that's like, yeah, I remember watching John Jones and he was 20 and being like, okay, that dude's holding a belt one day. That's not, Royal Roosters Jr. isn't that kind of a guy. He's just a young guy who had some success early and the UFC has picked him up. And they are not going to coddle you or prepare you for the real world in this way. And that is going to be a major detriment to your long-term. career prospects because if you can't be Christian Rodriguez, who's a good prospect, a very solid

prospect, but that fight, his performance, losing to Christian Rodriguez, you just shouldn't be here right now. You need to simply go and get better and revisit when you're 20. You still will have three years to be the youngest champion of all time. If you just come back in two of them, You got time here. There is no need to rush a career. It never works out for anyone. So I said this after the Contender Series fight because he looked really good. And he beat a pretty good guy.

Mondo Gutierrez is a damn good fighter. Yeah, he can be good fighters. Yeah. He put the boots to him. And the one thing that has just angered me about the Contender Series over the last couple of years, one, there's two things. One is that too many of these guys are getting contracts. We get this whole speech after the first week of the show.

Be Joe Piper. Be Joe Pfeiffer. If you ain't Joe Pfeiffer, you're not getting a contract. If you don't come in like that guy, you're not getting a contract. And then every single person who won a fight that didn't miss weight got a freaking contract last year. And Ronald Rozier had one of the start to finish more impressive performances, the more memorable performances of the season, mostly because they built it up. They built it up and they did everything and they put them over.

But I said, and this is the other thing that annoys me, they're not giving the developmental deals anymore. Like they're calling the developmental deals come back and have another fight for us. Like, what is the point of that? I remember when William Knight got a developmental deal after his first contender series win, he loved the developmental deal. That meant more to him than getting an actual contract because he could fight as often as he wanted. He could learn as many lessons as he possibly could on the regional scene.

and as long as they were affiliated in some way with the UFC or the UFC approved him fighting, he could fight every weekend if he wanted to. So he loved the developmental deal. Having said that, we're not getting any of those anymore. And Raul Rosa Jr. could have gotten so much from a developmental deal, like fighting for Fury or fighting for LFA, or fighting for CFFC or CES, or any of these other organizations.

It's not just getting wins. It's developing experience. Like, Raul Rosa Jr. fighting for an LFA Bannamweight title in a year, having a five-round fight and having that kind of experience. Like, you can't put a price tag on that. You can't. At 19, 20 years old, you're getting five-round fights, LFA, UFC Fight Pass, like getting all this big push. And believe me, when that kid gets a fight on an LFA card, everyone's going to be watching it. We're going to be writing it up.

We're going to be covered in. So will every other website. So I don't understand why one, the. the developmental deal isn't a thing. And two, why Raul, like, you could just keep him under contract. And then just a developmental deal. And then he could have like six, seven, eight fights on the regional scene, then get his UFC opportunity.

I just don't understand it. Now, so I guess my point to all of this is now, Jed, can the UFC pivot here? Can they come out and just be like, because Dana was asked about it and he goes, look, he learned he's going to have to go back to the drawing board. He's got some growing to do all that stuff. And, you know, that's what you're supposed to say. Should there be some internal dialogue right now? Well, look.

Gave this kid a shot. Look good against Jay Perrin. Loses to Christian Rodriguez. But if we're going to push this kid to be a star, we got to take our foot off the gas here. We can't just be bringing in like two and O Bannaweights for this kid to cupcake. We need to like give him some actual experience. So can the UFC just go back and just be like, look,

we're going to give this kid fights on Titan FC, CES, CFFFC, LFA, or is it too late to do that now? Like, can they go back and do that now, or is it too late? Is the ship already sailed on this idea? It's kind of too late, but they can. So they're not going to do it next. His next fight's going to be in the UFC. They're going to give him somebody,

and they're probably going to give him somebody a soft hand, right? They're going to give him another contender series guy. I think he'll give him some guy who theoretically can beat. And if he does, then we're just back at it. You know, we'll return right. If he loses, then maybe they think, okay we need to send him down for a little more seasoning but it's the problem with elevating somebody like this of of doing this dance it is it looks a lot worse if you send him down the optics of it

are really bad if you're just like hey we called you up to the big leagues too soon kid go on back down what will what will that do to his mentality how will that approach him that's none of that's good for prospect development and on the one hand that's not really the ufc's job like they aren't a prospect developing company. They poach talent. So that's also partly why I'm like, I don't really know why you guys hide this kid in the first place. Like, you can sign him whenever.

Signing him at 18 gives you a headline for a day or, you know, for a year. But even that, hey, he's 18, 18 year old Royal Realist Jr. Literally last for one year. After that, it's no more. And as that builds, it's, it loses the same cachet. So I never really understood the drive to get him moving forward because you could look and see that his game has flaws and needs development. And they could have said, like you said, hey, we'll keep it to a contract, but we have all these other promotions that currently fight on fight paths that we have deals with. Why don't you go fight for them?

You know, why don't you fight for CS? Why don't you fight for Alaska Fighting Championships or whatever? And let's work this way and let you get the seasoning. And so I think theoretically they could. I think the optics of it are terrible. And so they won't. Instead, he'll just be here. They'll give him the softest hand they can.

If he's able to elevate, then it will be a win for them in some ways and he'll hang around. And if not, they will have given a pretty big push to someone who won't ultimately be a factor and will probably exit the UFC in short order, maybe to sign somewhere else and use the name recognition he's built to broker a better deal with Bellator or one or whoever he can get. So it just feels like we fumbled the bag from Pillar to Post here.

And it's why I would never sign an 18 year old. Just ever, ever, ever, it doesn't seem at all worth it. I know hindsight is what it is because, you know, had Raul Rojas Jr. I was saying this before. Just steamroll, Christian Rodriguez and tapped him in the first.

Like, we may not be having this conversation right now, but. We wouldn't. That didn't happen. We'd still be having it because I'd still be saying he's 18. You can't trust this kid at all. There's no reason to. So he's 18 and it's not a knock on him.

It's an indictment of 18 year olds because I was 18 once, Mike. I was an idiot. And I venture to say I was smarter than most 18 year olds and I was still a total moron and I didn't know shit because that's how the world works. You develop experience over time and hardship. And he's 18. Like you just, you have no idea where you're getting with someone like that. He could wake up tomorrow and have been like, I don't really want to fight anymore.

And then it's all for nothing. So there's just no need or reason to have done this. And hopefully he will take a lesson and learn the right, learn the right one here. And maybe it'll all come out in the wash. But I don't think you're optimizing anything the way this has been handled. Be curious to hear what he has to say about it next. But if he does an interview or anything like that about his reaction to it, maybe it humbled him up a little bit because he was saying he's going to go out there

and steamroll Al Jermaine Sterling right now. And yeah, I think, uh, hilariously insane. Yeah. Well, lessons learned and hopefully you take something away of this. Anything else you want to add before we move on? The biggest thing I will say to reinforce the point. Think about Robbie Lawler's title run.

Robbie Lawler was still older than Raoul Roses Jr. and vastly more talented when people were calling him the next welterweight guy. He was going to take over that Militich Hughes lineage as the welterweight champion. And Robbie Lawler couldn't do it at the age of 24 or whatever it was. And he had a long and winding career with multiple setbacks, development jumping organizations and weight classes, and finally was able to put it all together when he was in his 30s and make the run that he became now the most famous for. You cannot expect an 18-year-old kid to be John Jones. Robbie Lawler is a much better aspirational target, and Robbie Lawler was still a better, more talented fighter and athlete than how Roses Jr. was, and it took him that long, for the love of God. forever more, let's just pump the brakes. We don't have to pretend that everybody is going to be a 22-year-old prodigy phenom, world-defining athlete.

We can just let people develop because that's how you're going to get the best fighters and the best overall product over time is by not shoving people as hard as you can and seeing if they can maybe keep their head above water. Teach them all to swim first. Well said. Let's transition. Speaking of young athletes, maybe speaking out of turn about winning world championships, Jake Paul has his next fight. He is fighting Nate Diaz, August 5th, Dallas, Texas, Mark Cuban land. This is happening. And it kind of came out of nowhere because there was talks about Logan Paul and Nate Diaz and is Jake going to go fight Tommy Fury again? All of this stuff. And then Eric Hohani, 10 minutes. before the MMA hour yesterday, boom, this is happening. August 5th, Dallas, Texas. Your reaction to this, Jed?

Was this the fight to make over the Tommy Fury rematch? What do you think? So we did a reaction pod yesterday, and I think this is, we debated that very topic, and I think that this is perfect. You could knock Jake Paul for a lot of things. I certainly have, and I will certainly continue to do so. I am of the opinion that he has,

handle his career perfectly. I have 10 out of 10, zero notes. He could not have managed his fight career better than he has done so. Every step up in competition, every new opponent has made sense

in one way or another, has brought something different and new to the table. And in Nate Diaz, he is finally getting another A side. He has, the Tommy Fury loss, you could run that rematch right back but in the post-fight show or the aftermath of that, I said, I don't think you do that

because I don't know that this gets better for you. I wouldn't discount his chances to win an immediate rematch, but he didn't lose that rematch because he got caught. He got caught in a beating. He lost because Tommy Fury was a better boxer and better prepared for that fight. Tommy Fury is not a great boxer, but he had a jab and he's young and athletic enough, and he comes obviously from a school of learning that is exceptionally good at the sport and that was too much for Jake Paul to overcome. It's not a knock on Jake Paul.

He's been professionally boxing for like two and a half years. He has exceeded anyone's expectations at this point. He ran into a test that he can't beat and I don't think he could beat it in another six months. He needs to take a little more time, develop a little bit more. And instead, now he gets to do exactly that. Andy gets to fight a guy, the first other, his first promotional match,

Nate Diaz draws interest, drives pay-per-view sales. People will tune in to watch Nate Diaz fight me. They'll certainly tune in to watch him fight Jake Paul. That's the first time Jake Paul's had that. Nobody else has really been a proper, you know, co-A side with him. They have been B and C sides and he has carried the heft. So he gets that. It's a fight that is winnable.

It's a fight that has more appeal now because of the Tommy Fury. lost because Damon and I talked about this in the reaction pod. After he beat Anderson Silva, I was like, I have no interest in him fighting Nate Diaz. That's a waste of a fight. He will very clearly beat Nate Diaz. He'd just beat Anderson Silva. That's the whole true. I think he's going to beat Nate Diaz, but he has now lost.

We've seen weakness in his game. Nate Diaz, for his limitations, is going to bring a fight to him. The fight is more compelling now. And most importantly, I think it was now or never. I don't think there was another window for this fight to exist. If he runs back a rematch with Tommy Fury, maybe Nate says, well, you lost two to Tommy Fury. Maybe I don't want to do that.

Maybe I want to, maybe I'll fight KSI, who's at least winning, even if they're not, you know, even if it's against whatever that dude's name is, Joe Fornier, maybe I'll fight KSI instead, you know. I don't think the fight could have happened except for this point in time. I never really bought the Logan Paul thing. I would think it would be tremendous booking for Logan Paul to box Nick Diaz on the car, but I don't think that will happen from a contract standpoint. But I think the timing is perfect.

I think that the biggest thing is they announced this yesterday and we're ready to go. They had a trailer, which is a really good trailer, by the way. They have a date and we are about to get four months of a heavy promotional push on this. This thing's going to do very well. this is a great step forward for for Jake Paul in his career particularly if he's trying to rebound they can do Tommy Fury next or maybe

KSI next he can do this Nate D-S fight Nate can get the big bag of money once and then per the press release he can go back to the UFC and move forward from there so I think this is note perfect from everyone involved again 10 out of 10 no notes

agreed and here's the coolest thing about this Jed there's no eye rolls with this. And there shouldn't be. Because we all have an expectation and belief what's going to happen here. We're happy for Nate that he's getting the big bag, that he left the UFC, did it on his own, did it the way he wanted to, left with the win.

Now he gets this massive payday to fight Jake Paul in a fight there. He's probably not going to get knocked out in, but he's probably not going to win. And he gets the big bag and like anything else Nate does outside of that is just. just it's cherry on top of the Sunday. Like if Nate wins two rounds, like he is over like Rover in this in this whole situation. So it's it's just like we kind of, as MMA people, we're not relying on Nathan Diaz to be like, save us from this Jake Paul tragedy date. We're like, no, go get that bag, man. And like if you do okay, like even better. Like that's, it's just a much different feeling than like the Anderson Silva fight or either the Tyrone Woodley fights or the.

the Ben Ascern fight where we're like putting the weight of the world on these guys from the MMA side, go out there and beat Jake Paul. But Nate was just like, cool, man, you get a whole big bag of money and we're happy for you. It's a nice feeling being able to talk about

this fight in that way, is it not? For sure. Everything about this is good. There's nothing bad about this. They are going to give a full promotional push. They'll talk a lot. People will be interested. Nate, wins and losses don't matter to Nate,

and he's been pretty beyond those for a long period of time. If he comes in and just stumbles Jake for a minute, then that's fine. If they go to a draw, then hell they can run it back and do it again. That'll be great if it's just a competitive fight. And once they look at the pay-per-view returns, which I'm anticipating will be quite sizable,

they might just run it back again due to if the fight's even remotely sellable to run that back. And they can both make a big pile of money and then move on with their lives. because this isn't Jake. Jake is clearly setting up fight. He clearly has a rematch with Tommy at some point in time and he's got the KSI fight.

Those are the big money fights and then maybe down the line he gets kind of McGregor depending on how that shakes out. That's obviously been the long-term goal. I think it ultimately will happen. Still probably a little bit away. Nate, Nate doesn't have a lot of other things. You know, Nate is loosely trying to go for Canello.

He mentioned it in the presser throughout Jake Paul's the second biggest star on the sport. behind Canello, which is a bit of a wink wink. Connello, we're here we can do a Cona McGregor or Floyd Mayweather kind of thing if you want to do that, Canello. I don't ultimately think Canello will bite. But outside of that, there's nothing else really for Nate in this realm. I mean, he could do fine anywhere, but he'll take this.

He'll get his one big bag of money. He might get two, again, depending on how this shakes out. And then I'd take him at face value. Probably going to go back to the UFC and try and close out that Conne McGregor trilogy for the longest time, I thought that the Connor McGregor, Nate trilogy would happen outside of the UFC so they can both take the lion's share of the money.

But it feels like the momentum for that is kind of going away. Connor seems to want to hang around the UFC for longer, which again, take that for whatever you want. It could all be just posturing and tactics, but Nate comes out here, has at least one

big pay-per-view payday on boxing, maybe two, and can go back to the UFC and negotiate with them and say, hey, I want X amount of dollars. I will come back. We don't need to talk about me coming back to fight eight times. I'm coming back to fight Connor. We do this for you guys. That thing, especially after my foray into boxing, it's going to sell 2 million pay-per-view buys. Here's what I want out of that. And I think he gets it. So this is a win for everybody involved, all the way perfect, all the way down the line. Well done. It's a beautiful thing.

It's a beautiful thing. I'm excited. That everybody nails it, and they all nailed it here. Perfect. Yep. Completely agree. And the timing is perfect for it. And Dallas is a good location for it. Dallas is a good location for it.

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on link on C4C or in magazine. Speaking of locations, Jed, you're going to be in Kansas City tomorrow, I believe, for UFC Kansas City. And I looked at the ticket sales a little earlier, saw some tweets earlier as well. It doesn't look like the ticket sales are doing spectacularly for this return to Kansas City. But you know what?

This is such a weird car, Jed. And I'm not talking about the actual fights on it. But we mentioned this earlier, the hangover effect from UFC 287. And this thing, instead of drinking 10 beers, we drank 100, and we're still feeling it on this Thursday, especially with Pereira announcing the move to 205 and not creates another day or two of debate. This, as far as fight night cards go, and now we're out of the apex, we have a great main event. I mean, on paper, Max Holley versus Arnold Allen, incredible fight. We'll talk about that more. I cannot remember a fight night card with a main event like this, fly.

lying under the radar as much as this card is. I can't remember. I feel like nobody's talking about this card. On a Thursday before. It's very strange. I think it's honestly that I've thought about it. I agree. I think the actual answer to this is it's not that hard.

Five pay-per-views in five weeks or three paper views in five weeks. It's just a lot. It's a lot of you need a breath. Honestly, it probably would have been a reasonable thing them to have taken this week off and just kind of said, hey, let's take a reset break. Because again, I mean, we went 280, what, 5, 286, 287 back to back to back, basically. It's just a whole lot of content to imbibe. And so it's a bit off-putting.

And this fight card, Connor and I talked about our no-bets barred, it's not bad. The main event is spectacular and the rest of the card is acceptable. I would say it's slightly above average for what we're getting for fight night cards about right on middle of the road for what I'd expect for a fight night card versus an apex card if we're categorizing those differently with a sensational main event. But it's just fatigue, man. That's so many pay-per-views, good pay-per-views with good big marking matches, things that happened that mattered.

I mean, within the last six weeks, John John, Jones came back and won the heavyweight title. Leon Edwards beat Kamar Usman again. Do you guys remember when that happened? It feels like a lifetime ago. Oh, BT Dubbs, Lexa Grasso was your new women's flyweight champion. And then Pereira comes back. Like, that's just, it's just a lot.

There's just a lot that has happened in the last five weeks. And so it's, I think everybody kind of was expecting and maybe wanting a bit of a release. And instead, we've got this fight card, which should be getting more love. honestly, if they had swapped it, so it was Pavlovich Blades this week, that would make a lot more sense because no one's going to give two toots about that fight card next weekend. And this one could have had a little bit more momentum, but it's just sort of how it broke down. Max Holloway versus Arnold Allen, Jedmishu. This is a tremendous fight. I was a little hesitant in making this fight. Not that I made it myself, but I know a lot of people were talking about this. it's mostly because of what happens at Max Hollow wins this fight.

Then Arnold Allen is sort of out of title contention for a little while. And this is not 205. This is not the light heavyweight division where you can lose a fight and then just come back and win another one and like you're back in the mix. Arnold loses to Max Holloway.

Like that is a big deal. He is, especially with the Tepori is coming up and the Marvazar of Loyav's coming up and the Billy Q's and all these other guys that the UFC seems to be behind It's a very deep division. A loss to Max Holloway is not good. And it scares me in terms of where this division goes

because Max has just been knocking off contenders this entire time. That's why we continue to have these Holloway trying to get them won back on Volcanovsky-type fights. And still, it could be in a position where these are still the two best 45ers in the world. But I love this fight by itself. If you took all the stakes and the divisional, you know, what's on the line at 1.45 out of it,

and just two dudes fighting, golly, sign me up for this. I hope they fight for 10 rounds. But what if Max Hollowe wins this fight, Jedmishu? Like, what if he goes out there and just, he is favored to do so? I've seen some lines up Max Holloway around a minus 200 right now to beat Arnold Allen. What if Max Holloway does Max Holloway things wins a 49, 46 decision against Arnold Allen? What do we do now? It's a catastrophe, straight up.

This is an enormous risk, an enormous. misreward fight. If Arnold Allen goes out here and gets his W. Number one with the bullet, baby. He fights the winner of Volcanovsky Rodriguez and Les. Rodriguez wins. Almost assuredly, they'll give Vulcan immediate rematch despite my many protestations about immediate rematches and thinking they are dumb. It will for sure happen if Yeya goes out and gets the dub. They'll run that back.

And frankly, that's what will happen in Max wins. They are, if Max wins, the UFC needs to functionally pray and hope the Yaeer Rodriguez can upset Alexander of Okinawokinov's. If not, they're holding a big bag of poo, of entirely of their own creation. Because if Max wins, you can never have him fight again. He can never fight for the title again. That alone would have made me essentially tell him, hey, you're going to lightweight. We're just going to fight people a lightweight because may or Chan Sung-Jung. We'll let you fight the Korean zombie if zombie wants to fight again because you're not

knocking off a contender. If you just want to do a legends fight, cool. You're not fighting anybody else in his weight class because there is no upside in it for us. There is no upside in it whatsoever in an enormous risk associated with it. And that's where we're at. If Arnold Allen wins, it's great. If he loses, there's not. And if he loses and Volcanowski wins, there's nothing left to do. At that point, that is the period of time in which we will see.

I can't believe I'm about to fucking say this, might. Henry Suhudo will move up and challenge Alexander Volcanowski for the featherweight title. If Arnold Allen loses this weekend and Volk successfully defends his belt and Henry Suhudo beats Al Jermaine Sterling or not, even if Aljo wins, they may just say Aljo, just leave, let your boy hit the belt, we'll give you a title shot because there's nobody else at 1.45. And as much as Volcanovsky wants to demand a lightweight title fight, that's not going to happen for him right now. Now, if it was going to happen, it would have happened immediately.

That was the only case was for him to pull off the immediate. And I think that's why he lobbied so hard because now once he goes back to 145, floodgates are open at 155. Too many dudes with knocking on the door. Biddi Daryush beats Charles Olivir, which I think he will, you got to give that man a title fight. Dustin Boy and Justin Gehche fight again, which seems like we're going to happen. The winner of that has to get a title fight. that's at least two people you are now tucked behind in the lightweight title fight pecking order

you just don't get it volk and so it was now or never and the ufc did not opt to give it to him now which i again i think was the correct choice and so he's going to have to fight somebody and he it should have been just honored allen after he fights yeah a year but now he has got a hope we go we all need to collectively hope Arnold wins this weekend so if not there's a decent world chance that we're getting Henry Sehudo versus Alexander Volcanovsky in December for the featherweight title. And buddy,

I may just go walk into the ocean, if that's the case. Even if Ilya runs over Josh Eminem June. If he really makes an enormous statement, maybe.

Maybe that's good enough. But I mean, it can't be winning a unanimity. He's got to put him, he got to put him in a box. and then maybe but I'm not even then I'm not confident because I'm looking at the UFC rankings right now

they've got him in at five if Tuporia puts him in a box maybe and on and out loses maybe he bumps to four and so they could see it but it's not look there are avenues forward but there's only one

that involves Henry Sudo potentially fighting for a belt in his third way class and that's by creating this Max Hollow versus Donald Allen fight. So let's go AAA, baby. Woo. Rest of the main card, Edson Barbosa versus Billy Q.

Dustin Jacoby, Asimat, Mirza Kanoff, Ewan Kuchelaba, versus Tanner Bozer, light heavyweight bow, Tanner looking. So, Chess. The Fed of the week. Yeah.

Oh, is it? I can't wait to listen to my time. Sure, is it chat GPD better the week. Uh, Pedroos versus Chris Gutierrez, Clay Guida, Jed's second favorite fighter, Tyne Stipe Mietchich versus Rafa Garcia.

We got some good fights. Brandon Royval, Mateus, Nicolao, just hanging out on the prelims in a rando's spot. Makes no sense to me, but there's other fights. You have the opportunity

to put Ian Kutelabo versus Tanner Boser on the main card. You got to do it. You just, you got to do it. You can't turn that down. Maybe Clay Grueva, Raffa Garcia could take the bump

and we put Royval, Norval Nicolao. Royval Nicolao should be the co-main event of this thing. It's the second best fight in the card. And I love Billy Kew versus Edson Barbosa. Ravon-Niclo, I was very clearly

that the second best fight in this card. It's not close. Yeah. I mean, the winner could get a freaking title fight. Yeah. Depending on what, yeah. I mean, it is not a close contest on what is the number two.

I mean, shit, they're both, they've both got to be top 10 in the UFC's rankings. Right, Val, Niccolo. I'm sorry. They're both top five. It's four and five. How is this not even the prelim main event?

What are we doing? What are we do? Bill Algeo, T.J. Brown is getting better service than this. Why? Don't I understand. This is a notch above. This is a notch above Ed Herman versus Zach Cummings, Jen. One notch above.

This is four versus five. This is actually the winner of the should get a title fight. This is a title eliminator and it's buried in the prelims. What are we doing? Absolute lunacy. I don't understand. Hey, maybe. Look, you're going to be there tomorrow. Maybe take Sean Shelby to the side. I will a thousand percent ask somebody, I'm like, what the hell are we doing? Do you guys, I thought we decided we weren't killing 125 and you're still burying title contender ballots. Like, what are, what's the point and purpose here? Well, they're small. We don't want to put the smalls on television. The head just keeps showing. I don't, I didn't realize that they were both top five in the, in the U.S.

These are like top 10 in ours, but they're not our top fives. I have no idea that this is their four versus five. And it's, why even have rankings? Like, why even have them? I don't understand. I don't understand how this fight is buried on the prelims. I mean, maybe these fighters don't care and they're like, eh, I get to enjoy the beautiful nightlife in Kansas City early on a Saturday.

But I don't know. It's just kind of a weird one. Gillian Robertson going on to 115 for this one against Pierre-Rodd, Regis. Daniel Zelluber is back. Second fight in the UFC. So, I mean, there's some stuff here. It should be a fun watch.

It's a fine card. And most of these fights are going to be fun. Yeah. I'm unclear why Zach Cummings versus Ed Herman is happening, like, just at all. Double, double retirement fight, maybe? God willing. Like, this should, that should be the main event of a Midwest, like, Smoker show.

I guess just, hey, these two dudes once. fought in the UFC and we're okay. Like, what are we doing? Also, Zach Cummings, the late heavyweight? This has got to be his late heavyweight debut, right? I don't, maybe. He hasn't fought in a long time, so. Yeah, but he was like a welterweight in the UFC.

He fought 85 was his last. I mean, yeah, he went up to middleweight for a bunch, but like, that's just a big gap. Yeah, he fought Ponzi scheme. A rumble Johnson kind of move from welterweight up to 205. he was the MFC light heavyweight champion oh I'm sorry he lost to Ryan Jemmo for the MFC light heavyweight championship in 2011 so not his uh not his first foray to the way class but I don't know that that fight uh doesn't need to be here but other than that the rest of them are all mostly fine yeah I would agree a couple news and notes before you get out

of here uh Jed UFC 289 has the location Vancouver Canada. It's going to happen June 10th. And the main event. I'll say if only it had a main event. The main event for the women's bantam weight title. Look, you've talked a lot about this division. What, 13 total fights in the division last year, right? 13. I looked this up, everybody. There were in fact 13 women's bantamweight fights in the UFC last year. If you include, I think there were three or maybe four women featherweight fights. So if you're just doing women's heavyweight, we had less than 20 total.

Good numbers. One a month, basically, is what we're looking at for band-in-weight fights. This is ours. Amanda Nunes versus Julian Appania 3 will be the main event of this card. And we talked about this on Heck of Morrow a couple weeks ago, like what is going to headline this card? And this just kind of was the process of elimination. Like, you could have done a Rini Aldana here, but like, Mazel's end the rivalry, I guess, at this point, because like, it doesn't matter.

I was pretty sure. I was pretty sure Amanda ended the rivalry when she beat Giuliana Pena, like she owed her money. I mean, I feel the same way. I thought the rivalry was done there when she hung a 50-43 on her ass. That felt like the rivalry was complete. But. So if you lived in Vancouver, if you lived in Vancouver and you were a ban and this was what you got,

how would you react to this? I would not go. I'm not even trying to be like an ass. I would not spend the money to go attend this event. This is going to sell like four pay-per-views, man, because I also would not pay. Unless this gets a lot of help real fast. Like,

we watched it. We watched the rematch. We saw it. What in the history of her career makes anyone think Juliana Pena's coming with something new and different to the cage. It's just going to be the same fight. She's going to get clubbed around the cage for 25 minutes. She's tougher than a $2 steak.

Nunes won't get her out of there, but we know what's happening on this one. And there's no, I don't know, just do a Renial Donna. Just do it. Mexico's having a moment. Do that fight. It's at least new. At least be new. if you're not going to be compelling, at least be something new.

So it's not, I can watch this for a third time. I don't know. And the rest of this card, man, it's a tough hang. This is, this is either the UFC is really going to have to pull something out of their hat to make this special. Because there aren't a ton of more options to juice the card up, or they are just writing this off as one of those pay-per-views that's not going to do anything for them. And they're okay with it. move on because

I mean I know some of these aren't confirmed Wonderboy versus Michelle Paheta that's not an awful fight done yet

it's not quite done yet yeah not done but it's not an awful fight but is that moving the needle for anyone no uh Danny Ege

Nate Landrear it's probably fun is that moving the needle for anyone no like it's just Miranda Maverick Jasmine

uh Jastavis there's there's there's going to be a tough hang it'll be a tough tough hang dude do this on the ABC card or whatever

they got one of those coming up don't they shout it is going to be ABC yeah and that's yeah and they're headlining ABC with Jarizio Rosenstrike versus Jailton Alameda huh all right well a public execution will be live on ABC on May 13th

that's fun I don't this needs help it needs help Mike it needs a lot of help for this to be something that we're going to talk about with any kind of excitement well I mean maybe we could have done brianne moreno versus Alexander pantosia on that card because it's going to happen a month later that would have been sick that would be ideal but i don't hate yeah but yeah that fights happening international fight week doesn't appear like the ufc will be heading to mexico in 2023 so so they give Brandon Moreno

his first title defense of this new reign against a longtime rival in Alexander Pantosia International Fight Week. Your thoughts on the matchmaking, the location, the date, all of it? It's going to be sick. That one I'm very excited for.

One, it was the obvious match, right? I think we all knew that one was coming and no shocker on it. Pants has earned his shot. He's already got two wins over Moreno. No one of them was in the tough house, but still, Man's earned a shot.

I will watch Brandon Marino fight anybody. Dude is super compelling to me, one of my favorite fighters to watch. I think a lot of people are already showing a lot of loved pants. I think that fight's going to be insanely competitive. Wouldn't shock me at all if this becomes another rivalry where we get more than, you know, more than three fights,

particularly because apparently the U.C. doesn't care about their next fluid contender since it's on the prelims this weekend or whatever. But that fight's sick. The Volcanowski-Giragia's fight, that's worth the price of admission. That fight is going to be absolutely insane. Bo NIC will coming back. They're doing International Fight Week really well, and it's probably coming at the expense of their return trip to Vancouver,

which, you know, sucks to be you, my Canadian brother, and I'm so sorry for you. Last thing I want to mention, Jed, PFL, back on Friday, right? PFL back on Friday. Lightweights.

That might be right. Lightweights and Walter weights getting after it. Yes, it is Friday night. And main event, we have the promotional debut of Shane Burgos. Don't we have two main events or something? and dumb about the construction. There's a bunch of post limbs

I'm looking at apparently, but Yeah, one of the actual like televised vein of end. Continue. I am begging. I'm just begging you. Anyone who works in this space, just reach out. There are a lot of people who

have core common sense and can solve problems for you. Postlims are dumb. They're just dumb. Don't do them. the poster theoretically has like Sada Bousai who is your reigning welterweight champion who's now the main post limb fight

like I don't what are you doing like I don't get it like you want your main card to be main evented by Shane Burgos versus OAM thousand percent that's the correct choice make that actually just be the main event then the last thing that happens that night not also we have seven other fights after we do this main event. It's just not hard to do that. Like, nobody else does this. Why do you think that is BFL? Do you think no one else is doing this?

Because you are smarter than the rest of the world and nobody else has figured out how to do post slims, but you're going to be the ones. No, they don't do it because it's shitty and stupid. So don't do the stupid thing. Just stick with the herd, man. Just do a regular fight card. I have no idea what the hell is going on here. I don't either. Like, I'm even looking at the PFL website. There are no prelims. There are just post limbs.

They're inverting card functionally. It's so dumb. It's so dumb. It's just so dumb. Like, I don't know how else to say it. It's so dumb. So tune in to the PFL this Friday night. You don't want to miss it.

Also, like, less than half the actual advertised card. Look, all these. these fights are not bad fights honestly the post-lim fights have a lot of compelling fights um i've watched the pfl's product mike i know you have as well they don't have enough good fights to fill the events that they put on if you just want to do a five-fight main card and that's it maybe you can add like three prelims in there from you know challenger series or whatever they call it cool that's a fine fight card to just we're just going to do the lightweights and the headings and the heavy weights here, boom, here's five of them, a couple prelims, and next week you can do

the Sadi Bousai and the Magamad, Magamad Karamov stuff. Like, you could, you don't have to put them all on this one silo. Like, I don't have any idea what the hell is going on here. At the bare minimum, the optics of it are terrible. And I don't even think, I think the truth is, it's just real dumb. I don't even think this is just, well, it's unfortunate and bad optics. I think it's just really stupid and I hate it as a result. Well, fair enough, Jed, but you'll be in Kansas. The Tom Schult, Stevie Ray is like a real

fight. Like, that's a decent fight. Yeah. It's a post, it's a buried post limb. It's not even like the main post. Roush Monfeo, this is a former champion. Like, what are we doing? What are we doing? It's the Cinderella man. He's like the

PFL Cinderella kid. Coming out of nowhere is the alter and win the whole damn thing. I'm not even kidding. it would make more sense to me if they did an actual inversion. And the main, like the prelim opener was OAM versus Shane Burgos, and they built up to a main event that was the shittiest stupidest card on the fight. That would at least make more sense than whatever monstrosity I'm looking at on topology right now. Like I said, tune in.

PFL, 7 p.m. Eastern time, I believe. Friday night. I don't want to be mean to other organizations. No, I know. I hear you. I don't want to be a dick to PFL or to Bellator. but like it's not that hard it is just simply not that you are you make it so much more difficult than it has to be consistently and i don't understand it just get get one guy one dude with common sense in the room and just run everything by him i'll be that guy i will take a competitive

salary for it it's like hey jed we're thinking about doing eight post limbs dumb as shit don't do it next one ray what else you got for me smart cage is going to show punches in miles per hour. Doesn't mean anything to anybody, Ray. Let's not do that. Next one, fire it well. I will clean your shit up in no time flat. There you go.

Well, I think that's it. I don't know how we could do much better than this, but maybe we will because next week we will recap UFC Kansas City. We have a double header of Bellator events coming up next week. We have Bellator 294 and 295. We will have the

Liz Carmouche Oh, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. They're not doing anything until June. They're doing this event and then nothing until June. Just split it up, but take all of the post limbs and do them in two weeks for a different fight card. What is happening, Mike? The entire month of May will have no PFL in it. And we're doing this. Somebody, I cannot wait till they come to Atlanta and I can actually. Ask Ray Cephyr and be like, hey, Ray, I know this is six weeks old and no one else is going to care about this. But for me, I got to know what the hell, man. What the hell? No, that is blowing my mind looking at their schedule. But yeah, the Bellator, I don't know, Liz Carmouch is fighting in Bellator. She's like a top 10 women's flyweight.

That's pretty deece. Yeah, it's the main event. A rematch at the end of the end of the end. It's obviously fire. Bellator. Danny Sabs is back. on Friday. Again, not a thousand percent sure you need to be doing back-to-back events, Bellator,

but given the context of what PFL just showed me, I'm going to give you a firm golf clap, Belator, because these cards are okay. All right. Casey, you can hit the music. We end with a golf clap for Bellator. Which doesn't happen. Belator's had a good year, man.

They've mostly done well. They have. proud of you guys. Yes, the Saturday cods really good. Hatchy makes Rafian Stotz. Friggin' rules. We'll talk about it. We're doing that.

It's going to be fun. Kioji versus Ray Borg at a flyweight fight? Still into it. Ray Borg at 125. I don't know if I'm into it. I mean, look, he's not going to make the weight, but that's fun. We'll have fun regardless.

We'll talk about that next week right here on BTL. Good night, everybody. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first? There, the last one.

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