MMA Fighting - BTL | Alex Pereira Delivers Again At UFC 307, Pennington Robbed vs. Pena? Plus, UFC Vegas 98

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

Alex Pereira did it again, as he knocked out a game Khalil Rountree in the main event of UFC 307 to retain the UFC light heavyweight title. "Poatan" now has options galore, so is sticking around at 205 the way to go, or should he move up to heavyweight to entice Jon Jones or Stipe Miocic to stick around? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses the fallout of this past Saturday's pay-per-view event, comparing Pereria's run to any other we've seen in the UFC, Julianna Pena regaining the women's bantamweight title, whether or not Raquel Pennington was robbed, and other storylines from the card. Additionally, topics include this Saturday's UFC Vegas 98 event headlined by Brandon Royval vs. Tatsuro Taira, PFL's pay-per-view price, Donn Davis continuing to frustrate the MMA community with his comments, and much more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and UFC analyst Din Thomas. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Din Thomas: @DinThomas Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from M.A. Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. And a special shout-out, positive vibe sent to our great listeners and viewers in Florida and the area is impacted by Hurricane Milton. It's been a crazy couple of weeks for sure.

On that end, Mother Nature has been pretty pissed off. And hopefully today's show can help take your mind off of all that. And obviously, as tough as that might be, we're going to transition into the program because we've got ourselves a barn burner today, my friends. We put a bow on UFC 307. We look ahead to this weekend, maybe even a little bit of next weekend as well.

So let us introduce the combatants first. You know this, man. Mr. No Gray area, the hot take kid. the Baron of Boop and the presidents of the Khalil Roundtree Bloodbugger fan club. He is the great Jed Michoud from MNFighting.com. Hey, buddy. So one of those disgusting things I've seen. Hey, Mike, you can probably hear him a voice.

A little under the weather, but we persevere because, you know, it's BTL. I wasn't on last week. I missed it. And we got a lot to talk about, including the Bloodbucker. So, hey, happy to be here, guys. Yes. Shout out to BC for filling in last week. And joining us from Salt Lake City, Utah.

Yes, the home city for UFC 307 this past Saturday, but also the home city for Friday's Karate Combat 50 event. He's an analyst for the UFC's on Sirius XM, fight court, and 10,000 other things these days. Let us welcome to BTL for the very first time. The great Dean Thomas, Dean, how are you, my friend? I'm good, man. I was able to escape South Florida.

My area did not get hit too hard, so I'm happy about that. But first I got to say, I'm a fan of Jed Schew, meant you already, because he got the Woodley Lawler poster behind him. Yeah, Woodley Loller behind you. Yeah, I got you.

I was the first event I ever covered live. No kidding. I live in Atlanta. It was the first one I ever went to live. It's not the first one I ever went to. It was the first event I ever covered live, so I keep that poster. It was the start of my career.

It was fun. Well, for that, you know, Atlanta is dear to my heart because Woodley won the belt there. I was with Woodley for that. and I had to drive to Atlanta to escape the hurricane so I could catch a flight out of Salt Lake City. We're great for that. We're good for escaping hurricanes.

Except Haleed. Halene actually kind of got us, but Milton stayed in his lane. Yeah, I see that. Yeah, at least same down here. My parents are in the villages, which is like between Orlando and Tampa. And they got hit a little bit, but not too bad. But for those who did get hit, we're with you. Wait a minute.

Mike, your parents live in the villages? They sure do. Oh, man, you got some freaky parents because I heard about the villages. The villages, I heard about the villages. The villages is where I want to go when I retire. Okay. So I've heard those things, too. My parents joke about those things.

And if they are part of that conversation, then I have no idea. But they just like to drive around golf carts, play golf, have a couple of cocktails and go to bed at 9 p.m. They're living in the team. That's what they tell you. Yeah. That's what they say, Mike. You don't know what you do.

Let them live their lives. It's like a ditty party over there from what I hear. You're a bunch of sick pricks. So let's get into the wonderful world of MMA. And let's talk UFC 307 because it took place this past Saturday night in the good old SLC. There are a lot of talking points heading out of it. not the most all-time thrilling card, but it certainly wasn't a bad card,

and it was capped up by Alex Pereer and Khalil Roundtree, just beating the hell out of each other for the UFC light heavyweight title. Great cherry on top of the Sunday, and Pereira expands his case for Fighter of the year with a brutal fourth round knockout of Calillo Roundtree, now three in 2024, three title defenses, three finishes, and the rise of Alex Pereer is just plain ridiculous.

So, Dean, I want to start with you, because we've seen these meteoric rises, in this sport. We've seen a lot of stars being made over the years. We've seen lightning strike at the right time for a certain fighter or two out of nowhere that led to big things. But what Alex Pereira has done and continues to do,

have you ever seen anything like this and all the time you've spent in the combat sports world? No, there has been nothing like this, and you've got to add some context to that. Because when you think about stars being born and on the rise, people have done it from different divisions. And in different divisions, it's a little easier.

Like when Rhonda did it, and I don't want to take anything away from Rhonda, but Rhonda did it in a time where there was just nobody else. And women's MMA wasn't what it is today. But when you talk about what Alex Bejera is doing, he's doing this at a rate and in a manner in which I've never seen before. I don't know if it's ever going to be duplicated because of the way he's doing this.

He's knocking guys out. He's stepping up. He's not playing this game of negotiating with the organization. He's stepping up when he needs to. He's doing this on injuries. He's fighting the next best guy. He's taking chances of fighting the number eight guy on, you know, under these conditions. And he's knocking him out. There's nothing that's been like this before. And I don't know if it'll ever be something like this before or again. How do you make sense of all this five days after he goes through, he overcomes adversity in the fight? And as we found out, overcame a lot of adversity long before the fight as well. this is just incredible stuff man like calil roundtri i know wasn't the number one guy he wasn't magabana but we're all pretty excited about the fight and we knew roundtry could present some problems for perera and he certainly seemed to do so in the first two rounds but how do we make sense of all this what

perera is doing especially after this win on saturday where he didn't have his fastball i don't i mean i don't know really right like we're in we're in new territory this never happened in this way there've been other champions who have fought three times in a year, you know, defended titles multiple times in a year and done this, but it hasn't been in this way with a guy who just made his debut like a couple of years ago in the UFC is, you know, our former colleague Sheen al-Shadi used to say, and I think it's like the best way to say this, he is speed running a Hall of Fame career. Like he is doing things that normally take fighters years on years on years to get there to be a double champion to, you know, move up the ranks of the all-time Great Light Heavyweight

champions as quickly as he is doing it to in the last like year and a month or whatever, like he has headlined MSG, he headlined UFC 300, he headlined International Fight Week. And then this one, you know, it's not as exciting as the others, but still another main event, another finish, another bonus and continue to build the mythos of Alex Pereira, a guy who frankly when he came into the UFC three years ago or what, three or four years ago, I can't remember.

It was, okay, he's probably not going to do anything, right? Like, he's probably not. Maybe they can find a way to Jerry Rigget

and get him to fight Israel, disson, you know, because pretty clearly that's the goal here. But, like, we're not expecting anything from him. And so he has exceeded all expectations

that could have been had for him in such an enormous way in such a short period of time. I don't know how long, train's going to last, you know, like this ride can end at any moment. He's 37, you know, like it's just the things don't go on forever, but enjoy it while it lasts because this is a hell of a fun ride. Here's what I think too. And I think there's something that we often neglect on his rise. And I attribute a lot of that to Glover Tashara, because Glover Tashira and the lineage

that he comes from all the way back to John Hackerman. So John Hackerman, train Chuck Weddell, train Glover Tashara. And now all the those lessons because fighting is more about education. It's not just showing up to the gym and working really hard. We use these catchphrases as working really hard. But it's a lot about education and knowing what to do with the right time and making good decisions. And when Alex Pahed aligned himself with Glover Tashira, he took on all the education of that entire lineage from John Hackle to Chuck Ladell to Glover Tashara and all of that stuff. And in the process, Alex Maheda has built himself into something that we've never seen before.

Like Jed said, this is uncharted territory. We've never seen anything like this. And then the fact that you got a guy who's incredibly disciplined, who has the history that he has in glory kickboxing. And so he has the combat sports acumen, but he's got the discipline. And now the education and that lineage that dates all the way back to Chuck LaDelle. And he's got that aura to him, too, that is just so undeniable.

He doesn't have to talk a lot of trash. He doesn't have to cut promos. It speaks a touch of English, but not a ton. And it's like just enough, the mystery behind him that makes him so compelling and interesting. Plus, he's just knocking everybody out, which is just obviously a very big thing. But Jed, we play this game a lot, right? Heck, AK and I do this every single week on onto the next one. You play the magic wand versus the crystal ball game.

It's what we want to see versus what will actually happen. And Pereira says, even though he teased a move to middleweight to fight Drickus Duplice, he wants to stay at light heavyweight. He says middleweight is out. Sean Strickland helped me get ready for this fight. I'm not going to stand in the man's way. He's next. But the fan base, you know what they want, Jed.

They want to see this man go make history. Go to heavyweight, try to win a third belt. And obviously, if Magamette and Goliath wins in 16 days, that's certainly a fight I want to see. I know that's a fight that you want to see. But if John Jones goes out there, beat Steepet at a Madison Square Guard, and I think most people expect him to,

and he decides to stick around for another, as much as we want to see Tom Aspenol get his day, I don't think John's going to call for that fight. I think he's going to call for Pereira. And Jones versus Pereira would be absolutely gigantic, no matter how you feel about it. So put the wand down. Crystal ball out, Jed. TV deal coming up.

They're about to get into negotiations for a new TV deal. If you had to guess on what happens next for Pereira and this guest mattered a lot, what's he doing next? There's a bullshit set up because you were on the watch party when I, like, you know my answer. Because I said it. I put this scenario out on the watch party with you sitting a foot and a half away from me. And it's bullshit.

You've painted me into a corner to say this and I don't want to say it. I just think it's true. I used to fight John Jones next. Like, I think that's garbage. I think it's a horrifically, like, bad for merit and whatever. But the biggest fight that can be made in mixed martial arts right now that does not involve Connor McGregor because Connor is his own entity, he exists outside of this world.

in that way is Alex versus John Jones. Like a lot of people now want to see John fight Tom Aspinall. That fight is never going to happen. And Dana has come out and said, hey, well, if John doesn't retire, he's fighting Tom Aspinall next. Dana says a lot of things. And that's probably not true. If John beats Stepe, and I'm using the word if they're very loosely, it's when John

beats Steepay, he is either going to retire. Or I think now there is very much a world where he just goes to the UFC and maybe he doesn't do this negotiating publicly for saving face, but he's like, hey, I'll fight one more, but I'm only fighting Alex. And the UFC says, you know, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to have the greatest of all time versus this guy who's an alien and anomaly is rising the ranks of the greatest light heavyweight of all time. We're going to do this one special fight. And Tom, you can go fight zero gone and defend the interim belt because you're, you're the real heavyweight champion, but you're doing some other stuff right now. Business comes first, and this is the best business we can do. John would love that fight.

I think Pereira would be stupid not to take that fight if offered. And I think that business being what it is, that's the fight we're getting probably next summer, you know, maybe April sometime then. To me, if I'm betting, that is the fight I think happens next. I just love watching the whole time. Go ahead, Dean. Now, I was going to say, this is a situation with Tom Aspinall where you have a good artist,

but he just ain't got no hot songs out right now. He ain't got nothing going on. He ain't popping right now. And it sucks for him that he ain't popping because he deserves the spot. He really does. Aspinall deserves a spot. Everybody in the industry knows that Tom Aspinall is the best heavyweight in the world, but we don't want our best heavyweight in the world to be a dude who plays with his kids. We want them to be an animal. We want them to eat people's eyeballs. And that's

what we get with Alex Beheada. We get a guy who's just dangerous, mysterious, lives on the edge. We like that. And I think Tom Aspenol is going to get the, he's going to get the short end of the stick here. I think that the fight with John Jones and Alex Paheda will probably happen hopefully not in the summer because that's just too long for Tom Espinole. I don't think Tom Aspenov should take another fight

in between that just really muddies the water. Oh, he's going to have to. He's going to want to and I'm sure that he might want him to, but if I'm him, I'm not because it really muddies the waters. But I'm telling you, the John Jones Alex Beheada fight is interesting because I think that is a fight in which John

Jones can also win and solidify himself as the goat. We'll see what happens there. I do want to talk about Kulil Roundtree, Dean, because he is obviously getting well-deserved praise and rightfully so. The way he built this fight on not trash talk, not all of this stuff that you see in most of these fights, he built it on his hopes and dreams. And can I compete with this guy? Can I hang with the best in the world?

These are the questions I had for myself. I was the overweight out of shape guy who had nothing really to get excited for in life. And then I found MMA and I built my way to get a shot at a UFC world title. And whether he deserved it based on merit or not, the man went in there, took two of the first three rounds from Alex Pereira and all three judges scorecards and gave the man hell before getting battered, bloodied, and beaten throughout the fourth round and just kept throwing and throwing in defense as best he could until that lethal combination at the end. How much did his stock rise in your eyes?

And is he now a made man at 205 after this performance? Oh, he's a made man for sure. Careers are built on moments. And prior to this, he had a couple of moments, but not the moments to really define his career or set up what his career could be defined as. And this set up what his career could be defined as. Because prior to this, no one really gave him a lot of chances. And here's the thing.

You know, when you have the connections like I have in industry, like we know. We know what goes on in the gyms. And we know what people are made of. Khalil Roundtree doesn't train under a rock. We know what Khalil Roundtree is in a gym. We all knew he was dangerous. But we also knew that he had some holes psychologically going into fights. And I didn't expect this from him.

I don't think anybody expected this from him because we knew that he's kind of a breaker. Like he breaks in moments. And that's what we, that's what everybody expected from him. because he's just the type of guy. He lost 300 pounds. He used fighting to create this identity for himself. So he's the type of guy who was just happy to be here. I'm just happy to have my name on the poster.

I'm just happy to be fighting for this title. We expected him to get out in a fight, get pushed around a little bit, and break. That's not what happened. Whatever he did, whatever John Wood, them guys did to him at Syndicate and instilled in his brain and say, hey, man, listen, you are ready for this moment. You need to go out there and take advantage of it.

Whatever they told him prior and had him drilling, warming up, getting him ready, they did it at a level which can't be parallel because here's a man who is a notorious breaker, goes out there, beats on Alex Bejada, shocks Alex Bejana for two, I thought maybe even three rounds. Like he beat him for two definitely, had his moments in the third round. but just really did his thing, and I'm really proud of him. I mean, everybody, I think even Alex Bahadah could tell you he's proud of him for going out there and doing what he did.

Jed Khalil has the nose surgery, gave us the blood bugger, spirits still high despite the loss. And seeing the fall from this fight in his performance, we've had some time to digest this. How much did his stock go up? Can it continue to go up even in his absence as he recoupes and tries to fix his face? I mean, it went up immeasurably, right? Everything Dean said is spot on.

What I'll add is that he is getting a very huge benefit as well from another individual not involved in this fight, who I hesitate to mention him because I'm sure he will find it and then tweet about it because the man is chronically online. And I'm speaking, of course, of Jamal Hill. And Khalil is getting such a boost of like, look at how this man exceeded expectations overachieve, fought. his heart out, put his soul on the line for fans to see. And even in defeat, he holds his head up with dignity and the way he is carrying himself. And, you know, his afterwards is, hey, thank you, Alex, for showing me what I can, what I am, what I am capable of. And you got, Jamal over on the side with his performative yawn. And like, I still want to fight that dude. I like, it's nonsense when he got gassed out in like three minutes. And so it's just the,

But the contrast between the two of them handling this defeat on top of their own. It really makes Khalil come out smell and even more like roses than he would already. And like this is like you said, he's a made man now. When you have a performance like this, a moment like this, he is no longer fighting in middle of apex cards. He will not be, if he's in the apex, it's as the main event. And otherwise, he's on a pay-per-view. He is going places. He is on main cards.

His career, you know, I'm not big on moral victories because they, you know, they are what they are. But if anyone ever had a moral victory and defeat, this one is absolutely one of them. Well, I think it's even more than a moral victory. I think this was the best case scenario for Khalil Roundtree in the long term. Because in the short term, let's say Khalil Roundtree went out there and caught, because he was inches away from catching Alex Baheda. Let's say he caught Alex, one-hand punches, knocked him out. He wins the title. Would we really have accepted him as the champion?

We never would have looked at him as championship material. And to be honest with you, the style of Khalil Roundtree fights is, I'm not necessarily sure he's a five-round fighter. He's more of a three-round fighter. So I think he's better off on pay-per-view cards, fighting three rounds, giving us his best three rounds, as opposed to stretching it out to five rounds. So I think that him putting up this type of performance,

gaining the fanfare that he garnered off of this performance and loss makes him a bigger star than if he had actually won off of one punch then maybe had a rematch with Alex, then gotten beat, and then he would have faded away into oblivion. But him putting up this level of a performance, getting all this attention and getting all this respect, not only from fans, but from fighters, I think this was the best case scenario for him,

to put up the fight that he did, and lose in the fashion that he did was actually a win for his career. What do you think about that, Jed? I'm not going to go there with it. Once you're a champion champ forever. I get what Dean's saying, but like once they're one of the people who held the belt? Who's Nico Montagia? The first UFC women's flyway champion officially.

Well, you know that. Yeah. But you get to forever be I was a champion. I am on the Wikipedia page of UFC champions. It's there. And being a champion, even if it's under odd circumstances, shit on the co-main event. Julianna Pena and got no wins over anybody in the freaking UFC,

but she got one big meaningful win, got trounced in the rematch, and still gets to fight for a title again. Once you're a championed champ, and I think Kalia would be like I would take the belt over the small victory six days out of six. but like I said, this is outside of winning, this is as good as it could have gone for him.

Like I said, in the short term, in the short, getting the belt and parading around with that belt for about 100 days might have felt good to him. But once that rematch, once that rematch happened, he would have been gone off into oblivion. No one would have remembered Khalil Roundtree, Jr. Bander's hang forever. Maybe this is, hey, look, did Khalil Roundtree

end the trend of Dare to be Great? Did he make it work? He didn't even need to say it, Jed. He just was. That's why I love him. He has not uttered the phrase Dare to be Great

and I'll stay in him forever so long as he keeps not doing it. What, is that like a trend? Like when you do something great, I hate Dare to be Great. It's my least favorite phrase in the entire sport. Well, this sport is built off of catchphrases.

Yeah, that's better ones. It's built off of catchphrases. of dare to be great, you know, I don't know, that's all combat sports is. No pain, no gain. Push to pace. We always say these two stupid things. Epinizing cardio is another one. Yeah, weaponizing cardio.

You know what? I'm going to turn you out. Let your cardio and see how long that lasts. My second least favorite phrase. Mike's just trying to make me upset today. Trying to get, try to make you feel a little bit better and, you know, have you try to dare to be great. You know what weaponizing cardio is?

Weaponizing cardio means just fighting sloppy for a long time. Yes. Because if you're doing something good, you're being effective and you don't have to do it for a long time because you're being effective. But when you weaponize, if cardio is your weapon, that means you're really sloppy and you're not very effective. Techniques are designed to work, my man. Well, whatever Giuliana Pena did over the last two years, it must have worked because she got herself a title fight and she won the damn thing. And that's what we're going to talk about in the next round. But point for round one goes to, I got to give it to Dean Thomas, man.

This guy just diving in two feet ready to go, the confetti, the glitter falling upon him. He's just ready to react to everything. I love it. I know how it is, man. Mike, you don't have to give me any pity points, man. I know I'm a guest, but, you know, don't give me any pity points. I want to earn my stripes. Well, don't you worry because at the end of the day, my opinion means nothing.

And you'll find that as the joke moves on. But... It was the night before the gathering and all through the house. The host rapid cozy cashmere throw from Homense for their spouse, kids' toys for $6.99 under the tree. And crystal glasses for just $14.99 for their brother Lee. A baking dish made in Portland, Portable for Tom and Sue and a nice $599 candle.

Perfectly priced just for you. Happy holidays to all. And to all a good price. Homeless presents perfectly priced. Let's talk about this co-main event. We live in a world, gentlemen. Giuliana Pena is once again the women's Bannamway champion. She gets the split decision not against Raquel Pennington in a fight that,

let's be honest, very few people thought she won. MMA decisions reports almost unanimously. It was scored for Rocky Pennington. There was one dissension, and it was you, Jedmishu. You scored it a draw, but no one on that site, not one single media member scored it for Giuliana Pena. And since then, even Kayla Harrison, speaking to our own Damon Martin, scored it for Raquel Pennington,

but then admitted she missed the first round, which that almost takes Kayla's opinion out of the equation altogether, because that's the most important round of this entire fight when it comes to scoring it. But anyways, we've had some time to let the dust settle here, Jed. I'm not sure if you went back and rewatch this fight. I have. Was Raquel Pennington robbed on Saturday night? No.

I don't think. We talked about a little in the watch party as well. I am very lenient with judging just because they have a very different experience. As long as the scorecards they are offering are. reasonable or explicable. I give them a little bit of a break just because what you're seeing, Cage side,

like I have watched fights Cage Side and thought something very different than when I went back and watched it was very obvious. I'm like, oh, the one I go to is Max Holloway versus Arnold Allen. Cage side, I thought Arnold Allen was like winning that fight.

And then I went back, I was like, he very clearly was not winning that fight. It was competitive if he wasn't winning. In this fight, look, a couple of the rounds are very, very clear. And then the first round is pretty much a toss-up. So it's, you know, it's interesting that everybody in the, in the MMA media space gave it to Rocky. I honestly would have thought there'd be a little bit more split.

I personally had three rounds going to Pena, two to Pinnington. I just gave Pendington to 10-8 for round four because she got the knockdown, you know, whether she's close or not to finishing. She clearly did the most damage and a substantive amount of damage in that round. and I think that that should be weighted more and the rules allow you to do that. So I did. I personally still think draw is right. Honestly, I'm glad we didn't.

Because a draw means we'd get this fight again and we need DeKela Harrison to come in here and handle up. But I don't think either party could have been that upset with an outcome. I think this was a close competitive fight. And, you know, it broke wrong for Pendington. and that's unfortunate, but I don't think she was robbed. Well, I thought she was robbed. And in the sense that if you have the belt and now you don't have the belt

and you should have won the fight, you got robbed regardless of the situation. You're robbed. You were robbed of your belt. So, you know, at the end of the day, like rounds can be close and rounds can be subjective, but at the end of the day, one thing that's not subjective is there is a winner and a loser. And when the wrong person gets awarded the victory, to me, that's a robbery. Now, here's the thing. I'm with, Jed, I'm with you on the judges.

I'm very lenient with the judges. Those guys are friends of mine. I never questioned their decision. In fact, it's hard for them. I sit K-D side too, so I see it as well. But it's hard for them because they're seeing it from different perspectives. And they have a lot of distractions, even though they're not supposed to, but they're only human. But the reality of the situation is that our judging and scoring criteria is so bad that it puts the judges in a bad spot and makes them look bad when they make decisions.

That's the reality. I'm not blaming the judges. I'm blaming our scoring system and our criteria for the robberies that we get because it's very unclear. It's so subjective. And you're leaving it up to three guys who sit at three different spots. They really have a hard time agreeing on anything. So at the end of the day, I think we put so much into the fight and that we said, all right, you know, we have the scoring criteria that was designed for boxing. So how can we fix fighting to fit the mold of the scoring criteria, which is absolutely the worst thing you can do.

Instead of fixing the scoring criteria, we want to fix the way we fight or view fights, which is a terrible idea. So I'm not blaming the judges, but I am blaming the system on why Rocky got robbed. Rocky got robbed in that fight. She had a head kick that almost put Juliana out. She dropped her, and I can't remember which round it was. To me, she dominated the fight, and she got robbed. At the end of the day, she got robbed. Now, in the grand scheme of things,

Juliana Pena being the champion, setting up a fight with Kayla Harrison, it's a bigger fight. I'd much want to see that. But I would much want to see Juliana Pena earn the fight against Kayla Harrison as opposed to being gifted a fight because the judges saw it a certain way in which I don't agree with. But are you, Dean, my question is, do you disagree with the judge's scores?

Do you disagree that Pena won the first three rounds on the two judges' scorecards? Because she clearly won rounds two and three. That's not, I don't think that's up for debate. And I did not think she won the first round either. I didn't think she wasn't the first round. But do you think it's ridiculous to say that she won it? because it's, I don't think it, that's just a close round. To me, to me, I thought it was ridiculous.

I don't know. I thought it was ridiculous. I don't know how you can get, I don't know how you can get dropped with a punch, dazed. That's in the fourth round, though. Right, but still, but still, I know we judge rounds, you know, individually, but still, I don't know, I don't see how that you can have those type of moments in fights and the other person. And also, too, and I mean, I don't want to get into a whole scoring debate, but, a 10-9 is so the the discrepancy in a 10-9 is so vast that we need to start using the other

numbers you know that that's my point is that we start we need to start using the other numbers and because judges are discouraged from using other numbers we end up with situations like this because now she gets dropped at a head kick or drop with a punch kicked in the head and we just look at it's like oh it was still kind of close 10-9 10-9 10-9 but that first First round 10-9 was such a close round. It was such, I mean, it could have went either way, right? But in my opinion, I thought Rocky won that first round. So, I mean, based on if you gave Julian opinion this to first round,

then I guess you can kind of say, yeah, she won the fight. But at the end of that fight, in my head, I clearly knew who I thought won the fight. Pride rules. And that's why I'm totally with you. I think we are not nearly liberal enough with 10-8s, 10-7s, 10-6s. I know 106 isn't actually technically legal, but there's no reason that rounds one and rounds four should ever be worth the same. That's why I gave Pennington a 108 round four. And I think it should be a draw.

I'm glad we didn't. I don't need them to fight again right now. I want to see Kayle Harrison fight for the belt. But yeah, it's the now we're getting into the whole scoring thing, Mike. And that's we've had that discussion, eight billion times. I'm sure. I'm sure everybody's had that discussion. You know who hasn't had that discussion?

You know who hasn't had that discussion? The commissions. The commissions just say, shut up fighters, just fight your heart out. Fight your heart out and don't leave it in the hands of the judges. Okay, then why do we have it? Speaking of bad phrases.

Yeah, that's the worst one. Don't leave in the hands of the judges. All right, well, let's just get rid of them then. Yeah, I mean, I scored it for Paddington, rewatch it, Pennington, but I'm also like, I've been saying this for a while. I'm actually going to be talking

to Rocky in a couple of hours and I can't wait to sort of ask her this question because I'm going to. I was very hard on Raquel Pennington even though I thought she won the fight because I think, I thought she let it slip away. I thought she gave the fight away. She had moments in that fight where she could have done more and she didn't. Like you mentioned did she dropped her in the fourth round. If she just let Juliana stand back up, she probably finishes her. But instead, she jumps back down and on top of her and Pena is able to kind of grind out the rest of the round. And I just, you could see it in between rounds or corners screaming at her. Like when you are aggressive, when you are pushing forward, when you are throwing multiple shots at her, when you're getting

inside, you are effective. And when she did do that, she was. And then she would just stop doing it and then she got taken down. So I think she kind of let it slip away as well, but we'll get her response to that when I speak to her in a little while. But this was a tough fight, Dean, and Kayla Harrison had her own really tough fight with Ketland Vieira. She's done a lot of media. She spoke to our own Damon Martin, talked about the effects of the weight cut. But you talked to Rakell yesterday, Dean, and Rakell Pennington said to you, look, Kayla says she wants to take some time off after everything she dealt with with the weight cut. So she says, hey, let's give her. her the time she needs. Let's do Pena Pennington two. Let's keep this thing moving. And then

Kayla can fight the winner. In your opinion, any chances actually happens. No, no. You said the statement earlier about business. Business is everything in M.A. If you ain't popping, you ain't popping. And you got to be popping. Maybe. And the problem is Rockale Pennington is not popping. I love Rocky. And I wish she was. I wish she got the attention and the respect that she deserves as a true blue-collar worker. But she doesn't. She's just not popping. And the UFC recognized that.

And it's not that they hate her. They're just like, yo, we got to sell tickets. That's what this game is about. We got to sell tickets. And before they allow Raquel Pennington to get a rematch, I'm sure they're going to come to Amanda Nunes and beg her to take a fight if Kayla Harrison ain't ready. Because there's no way to go to let Raquel Pennington get a rematch.

remand unless unless all they exhaust all other options will they allow that to happen but I can't imagine I think they will be like all right if Kayla Harrison can't do it within this certain amount of time we have to bring Amanda Nunes back but there's no way there's no way they're going to give Raquel Pennington an opportunity and I think it sucks but it's just she's not popping and she doesn't care to pop but she's just not popping Dee, do you think Amanda comes, because Juliana called her out, and boy, a lot of us felt that this is just an awful call out because they set her up perfectly. Kayla on the split screen. All right, Kayla's going to be next.

She won tonight. What are you going to do? Like perfect opportunity for a fighter to plant the seeds. And she's like, nah, Amanda, come back. We'll do the trilogy. Biggest fight of all time. And it just kind of was met with groans. But then out of nowhere, Amanda Nunes, dancing around saying,

Dana White, call me. What did you think of this? Like, do you think this is a, her just staying in the news cycle? Or do you think she's actually serious about coming back and fighting Juliana Pena right now? I think there's some, I think there is some seriousness to this because I know Amanda. And I don't want to say she's lazy, but she ain't going to do nothing extra if she'll need to. Like, she's not going to, she's in, and she looked in shape in the video. And she looks like she's been training. So my, my guess is that she's been training and she's looking for the right opportunity to return. Now, whether it's going to be Giuliana Peña or Kayla Harrison, I'm sure she'd probably rather be Kayla Harrison. But if I'm Amanda, Amanda's good friends with Rockale Pennington.

And if Amanda doesn't really want to fight Giuliana Peña, Amanda needs to do the homie thing. And the homie thing would be to say, all right, Juliana, if you beat Rocky one more time, I'll fight you. that's what the homie would do. But I don't think Amanda's going to try to beat a homie to Rockale Panicking. I think she's probably just looking forward to getting Kayla Harrison in the in the octagon. Man, that's actually pretty interesting. Jed, what do you think about this whole situation? Does Raquel have any shot here?

If we find out Kayla's up for a year, do you agree with Dean that they're just going to be like, Amanda, come on, let's do this? If Kayla's up for a year, I think, I mean, yeah, they'll try and get Amanda. whether Amanda will, Dean is clearly in a better position than I am to speak to that. If not, then yeah, Rocky's there. But Dean, this is exactly what we was talking about previously. Rocky's a champ now. She champ forever. Banners hanging forever.

And so it's unfortunate. She lost her title. But like now she made like there is a world where she gets an immediate rematch. I don't think that world is likely at all. But even if she doesn't, what 135 is not a very deep weight class right now. now she's still in okay shape. It would be better if she had the belt because it's always better to have the belt. But if, you know, Harrison goes out there and does fight Pena and Harrison wins, then I think

the idea that everyone is on board with is now Amanda comes back when we do Amanda versus Kayla fight that was theoretically maybe possibly going to happen previously and then Pena kicked over that particular apple cart and set it on fire. Like if that happens and then maybe Pinnington has to fight one person. she got to fight Macy Chason or whatever and get a win. And then where does Kayla go after the Amanda fight? Nowhere. Like Pennington is just right there because there's not another option really for her.

So Pennington's still in okay shape. Amanda even responding to Peña's thing, which I guess maybe it was a response to that. I didn't see that coming. So maybe this works for Peña. I super don't think it will. And I still, and unless she does somehow get a newness fight, I don't think that was a terrible callout. But look, we're talking about Women's 135 right now, Mike.

That's the biggest part of this whole thing is this weight class was dead on a rival a year ago. Like, we were mocking it internally and externally because it was when Amanda left, she took everything with her. And now there is conversation. A lot of that is Kayla Harrison based. But look, I thought Pennington did a great. great job in Fight Week. We talked about it of bringing a little more interest, bringing a little more zip and a little more pop to her on-camera time.

Pena is always going to be Pena. Like, women's 1-35 is in the best place it's been since Amanda retired. And that's maybe not like awesome. You know, like we would want it to be better even than it is. But like, it's encouraging that this division is back from life support right now. All right. You write about this, Jen. You're right.

Yeah. There's a banner that says Raquel Pennington, but she can't get in the clothes. though. I bet she go to the club and they don't let her in. They don't let her. They don't look for her ID. We're your ID at. She can't get in the club. You think they'll be like, yo, let me

see your ID. If you want to come up in the club, if you want bottle service, you got to show me some ID. They ain't, they're respecting that. You think in a year from now, people are going to be like, I remember you, Cleary around you. You're the guy who valiantly got his ass rolled by Alex Pereira.

No. But he's going to follow up on that. He's got to follow up on that. When he follows up on that. If Pennington follows up and gets the belt again, she doesn't. But she's not going to get an opportunity. She's not going to get the opportunity because she's not popping. Just wait.

Within a year and a half, she'll fight for the belt again because there ain't nobody else in this weight class. Honestly, I thought about this. We are talking about women's band weight, and I thought about this. You might think I'm crazy. You might think I'm crazy. but I do have high hopes and I do think there is potential for two women in the division.

Norma Dumont. I know. Norma Dumont. She's looked good lately. Yeah, Norma Dumont. I mean, she got to get a little bit more aggressive. But in five-round fights, if she can ever make it to a five-round fight, Macy Chiron Song.

If she can make it to a five-round fight, I think she'd be a problem for anybody. She got some work to do, but hear me out on this. Macy Chisone, give her some time. She's got a great coach behind her in Safe Saoud. If she can make it to a five-round fight, I would put money on her over Kayla Harrison. I would take your money.

If you were to make that bet, I'll make that bet. I would put money on Macy Chiasone over Kayla Harrison at 135 in a five-round fight. Look, if we ever get to a point where that happens, we'll tell. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. We don't, you know, people involve the books. They take a percentage.

We're good. We can just do that straight up. I'm okay with that. Yeah, I don't do books. I mean, plus UFC going to get me anyway. And I'm like, hey, but you don't gambling. I was going to ask you, the low-key MVP of this card was,

but after the hottest take in the history of the program, I think we got to move on. We just have to transition to, that was. I don't know if I've ever heard to take that spicy in the history of the show. Look, and if he's right, Dean, you can put this up on your socials forever. I called it years before it ever happened,

Jason beating Kayla Harrison. Yeah, this is your banner. You're getting the bottle service. You're getting through the velvet rope. You don't need an ID, Dean Thomas, if this comes to fruition. So let's move on to this Saturday, back at the apex.

The point for round two goes to, as much as I respect the take. Dean. It goes to Jedmishu. One to one. That's just wrong. I didn't give it to Dean for the take alone. That's a bad point. I'm not going to celebrate. Dean earned that one. Hey, listen, it's a robbery. It's a robbery. Go to the commission. That's a robbery. We'll have to appeal with the commission here. But guys, how do you follow up UFC 307? You follow it up with UFC Vegas 98. The road to UFC Vegas 100 continues on. And the flyweight division gets the marquee.

Brandon Royval taking on Tetsuro Taira. Dean, betting odds don't always tell the whole story, but Brandon Royval is a massive underdog heading into this fight despite having fought almost every big name in this division. I think he's fought the entire top five. He just fought for the belt less than a year ago. And yes, Tairas looked great. And I actually talked to Royval yesterday.

He believes he is the most underrated fighter in the flyweight division before saying Tetsu Rotaira is the most overrated fighter in this division. And I don't really agree with the latter here. But Royval saying he's the most underrated fighter at Flyweight got me thinking. So do you think he's got a point, Dean? Because not a lot of people are giving him a chance to win on Saturday. No, I think he's got a great point here. And like you, I spoke to him yesterday too.

And I thought it was going to be closer before. I thought the line should be a little closer. I did favor Taita a little bit. but after speaking of Brandon Royval yesterday thinking, it makes a good point here. I'm actually picking Brandon Roy Val to win this fight. I think, and I love Tyra. You know, he comes from the same fight lineage as I had.

I fought back in Shuto back in the 90s. And that's the organization where he cut his teeth in. So I love the fact that he's here representing the Japanese MMA, something that no one has done in a long time, and he's over here doing that to the highest level. But with that being said, I do think that there is a pressure that Brandon Roy Val is going to bring to him that he's going to have a hard time dealing with. And then just, you know, Brandon Roy Val said he trained with him before.

And there is, I mean, you can't put so much into that, but sometimes you can put a little bit into that. And I do think that there is something to look into that with. But, yeah, but I think that Brandon Royvow is being disrespected and I'm actually looking to see him. I think he's going to win this weekend. I think he's going to hand tired of his first loss. Jed, your thoughts on this? Do you feel like Roy Val is the most underrated guy? Because not only is he a big betting underdog in this fight,

he's been a big betting underdog in his last three fights, which, I mean, look, it's Pantosia, Moreno, and then this one, and Tyra's on a roll. And we're both very high on Tyra. I think you're actually a little higher on him than I am. You feel like it's a God-given reality that he's going to fight for the UFC title and has a really good chance to win it. So your thoughts.

Do you feel like Roy Valle is the most underrated guy in this division right now? I think that's an insane take. And that's not to say that Brandon Roval is bad. I think Brandon Oval is an exceptional fighter. He's the number one ranked flyweight. You can't be underrated if you are the number one ranked guy. Like that's just not unless you're just so much better than the champion that it's ridiculous that you're only number one.

except we've seen him fight the champion very recently and we saw how it went. Like that's an insane thing to say. The tire being overrated is a, I don't agree. I guess we'll see though. Because maybe he's right. Maybe this is a, there's levels to this is stuff performance from Brandon or Val and Tyra comes out. And he's still 24 years old. He has a lot of growth and development to do.

Maybe we see that, okay, we're a bit high on him. I mean, we're talking a couple weeks back. think where he were a year ago on Benoit Sandini and now he loses Justin Poy and Hanato Morcano exceptional fighters and we're just like actually this guy might not be good you know like the the tail of the tape is shown as we play the string out

and so maybe we'll find out that Roy Val is correct on Tyra I'd be pretty surprised if he were correct not that he can't beat Tyra I think he's got a very good chance to beat Tyra this weekend because Tyra is still young This is his first five-round fight. Brandon Royval is scrappy as all hell is going to be in there competing the whole time. But I can't pick, I can't pick anyone to beat touch or retire at this point in time.

I love this kid. He still has so much growth to show. But every time we see him, he is making leaps and bounds of progress. He is such an unbelievably talented grappler. And to me, that's why he has the advantage. this weekend. And then Royval is himself a very good grappler, but we saw that when Pantosha got a hold of him,

Pantosier was able to kind of dictate how that fight went in the grappling exchanges. Tyra, I think, can do something similar. The question to me is, to what extent can Royval create scrambles not get tied down? Can he take advantage of what I think is an advantage on the feet, though Tyra is coming along there as well, and take advantage of this fight going later?

Because if he can get it into the championship rounds, I do think he clearly has an advantage there. This fight bangs. I am so unbelievably excited for this fight because it is two of the, you know, in my opinion, five best guys in the world at the Flyweight Division. I think Tyra's going to win, but I would not be married to that idea.

And if Revald comes out and does prove, hey, you guys overrated this kid, I am the number one contender. I deserve to be the number one contender. Then it'll be a weird conversation because I don't know that we need to see him fight Pantosia again, but also I don't know that I'd hate to see him fight Pantosia again if he comes out here and he dummies the guy that I'm as high on as I am with Tyra.

What you said about Brandon Roy Val is so true. Fighters tend to create these scenarios in their head where they feel like everybody's disrespecting them, and that gives them a little bit more motivation because it can't be true that people are underestimating him and disrespecting him. If he's the number one rank guy in the division, how is that possibly true?

So you're right about that. But we're tired of what I think, for me, he passes the eye test. Benoit St. Denis going into those fights with Dustin and especially Moikano, I didn't think he passed the eye test. I thought he was dangerous. That's one thing that we know. We noted he's dangerous. He had a good left kick and, you know, he's aggressive and he's not afraid to fight.

We knew that. But he didn't fully pass the eye test for me in terms of a complete skill set. TIDA does pass that eye test for me. He does pass the test of a complete skill set in terms of being able to handle different situations from different positions and handle them in an effective manner. For me, the last thing he has to be able to pass is that pressure test that Brandon Roy Val is going to give him. Because Brandon Roy Val is going to put a pace on him. He's going to keep coming. He's not going to stop coming forward.

that if if tida is as good as he says he is that should work in his favor actually if he's not as good as we think he is he's going to fall apart but with that being said if he beats brand and roy val i do believe that he has the potential to beat pantosha i think he would be the best guy in the division if he could beat brandon roy vall would you give him a title shot if he wins his fight dean yeah absolutely does it no question no yeah no yeah absolutely

Absolutely, you give him a title shot. There's no one else. Like immediately? Immediately? Because Pantoja likes to fight anyway. You know, we're not dealing with welterweights who need nine months in between fight. Nine months, not even nine months in between fights. Walter weights need nine months in between negotiating for a fight.

So we're not talking about that. We're talking about, we're talking about fly weights who love to scrap. So I'm saying if he can beat Brandon Roy Val, you set this up in February with Pantosh. What do you think, Jed? Like, you got Kai Asa Kerr there too. We don't know what's going on with Pants. We don't know what's going on with S. Kerr either. Brandon saying that he was offered that fight for UFC 305 and then compared himself to a prostitute and says he's no longer a cheap-ass prostitute anymore.

And that's why he didn't end up taking the fight. Very interesting stuff right there. But is it just, sorry, Kai, you're going to have to fight somebody else and we just throw on tire right in there? Yes. I mean, outside of the fact in the UFC rankings, if Tyra wins this, he will beat the number one ranked contender. Like, you just do it. And I know there are actually other options right now. You know, you've got Brandon Moreno fighting Amir Al-Bazi that's coming up at Edmonton. So if Al-Bazi wins, he may arguably, honestly, have a better case than Tyra. But he's just been out for so long. That kind of extended layoff really hurt him as being present in fans' minds. I think we all. are very excited about Kiyosok coming over, but the UFC in general wants them to take fights.

Like that's the UFC almost as a rule at this point is, hey, you got to fight somebody before we throw you in there. We need a how do you do to the fans. And so he'll have to fight somebody. Maybe he fights Roy Vall if he will lose his fight. I don't know how it will go. Asikor is going to have to get one. If Moreno wins, you know, beats Al-Bazi,

then Al-Bazi's not really in line. and do we really want to do Pantosia Moreno 4? Like, it wouldn't be the worst thing, but no, I think everything is lined up exceedingly well for Tatsuro Taira. If he can get it done this weekend to have a chance to become the first UFC champion born in the 2000s. I thought it was going to be Mohamed Makhive. We know what happened there. I think it's, I think Tatsura Tira has a real good shot to be that guy now. Oh, my God.

He was born in the 2000s? Yep. Oh, my God. Yep. That's so crazy to me. It's wild. Maybe. Well, let's see if Tyra makes that step.

But that's this weekend. There's some things going on next weekend. And I want to touch on that real quick. The point for round three goes to Dean Thomas, the Welterway comment, put him over the edge. Although Jed shocking Dean with the 2000 staff was pretty darn good. perhaps my point giving is bad today. It's a great stat.

Guys, PFL is heading to pay-per-view next Saturday. We have the Battle of the Giants, Francis Ngano versus Henan Faheda. Jed, we got some news. I believe it was after BTL last week. Maybe it was a little bit more, but we got the price for this pay-per-view. We were all saying, please, PFL, please ESPN, do the thing, make it like 1999. Let's get as many eyeballs on this thing as possible. That's the perfect price.

price point for this card. Let's grow the fan base instead. We're back to the 4999 price tag. And look, this isn't a bad card, Jed. The main card is mostly very solid. We have the long away to return to MMA for Francis and Gano for the first time since he beat Cyril Ghan. 50 bucks though, Jed? Is this a bridge a little bit too far here? Or do you think this is priced appropriately? 50 bucks is more money than I would have suggested. I am certain that somewhere in in the offices of the professional fighters league there are people working on things of this nature and that this number is not pulled entirely out of a hat and that there is at least some data

to suggest that this is the price point that they think will maximize their sale to profit ratio there i am specious that this is correct because i mean i like this fight card i don't want to be out here and be like this is this is terrible decision i actually very much like this PFL fight card. I think it's about the best they can offer. And I will personally be excited to tune in. But also, this is not even an event that's happening in the evening. Like, this is a mid-ish day card because of the location.

And I don't know if you're aware of this, October on ESPN, that's college football season, baby. Like, that's Tennessee playing Alabama. Like, at the same time that this paper even is happening. You are just restricting your. casual purchasing power. Not the hardcore fans. I think that that is probably what they're having to

rely on here is hardcore fans will be interested enough that they will just focus on this. But there's not going to be somebody who's just like, I got nothing to watch right now. Well, click this and see, oh, 50 bucks, sure. If it was a $20 price point, maybe you get more people to buy into it. But instead, they're

like, hey, I'm going to, I pulled up the college football slate for this question. Bama Tennessee is in a midday game. I'm trying to see if there are other major things but like michigan's playing tech tec notre dame like notre dame like notre dame is running head to head with them that's a lot of marquee brands in the sporting thing to run in competition at your rough timeline out of the $50 price point i think you're going to turn off any possible casual view you would have so wouldn't be my call but i'm

sure that they at least have a reason and i hope that they are right and that this works out I want PFL to succeed, especially when they're putting their best foot forward like this, because I think this is the best they can offer. So what is the normal price of a PFL pay-per-view? 50 bucks. It's normally 50 bucks? But the problem is no one's buying it. Like it's we'll never get the numbers, but like internal discussions and all that,

they're awful, awful numbers. Well, I mean, I had some insiders tell me that Francis is not the big pay-per-view draw that we think he is. You know, as like guys who cover the sport, we think Francis is a big draw, but in terms of the real actual numbers, they say he's not as big as we think he is. So I was actually comparing that price point to like an $80 UFC thinking, okay, 50's not so bad. But now if the normal price is 50, these guys are throwing a card in the midday, on college football day for 50 bucks,

that is absolutely insane to me. That is crazy to me. I don't even expect a lot of hardcore fans to even know this is going on because it's just, it's not a normal time where they're looking for it. Like, okay, it's at night and we're looking for it.

This is in the daytime where people are like doing Saturday type stuff. This is insane to me. This card should be $10. They should have put this at $10. just to get the names out there, just to get the faces out there. And just to say that, but what I think is they was like, no, we can't go. We're not going to whore ourselves out and go cheap on this. We're not that type of organization.

But sometimes you've got to tuck your tail and do what you got to do. And I think they dropped the ball on this one. They should have put this at $10 no more than $14.99 and been promoting this and trying to get this thing going. But they are making a mistake by having a card or Alabama is playing. and they intend to go up against Alabama with $50, they are free. People, people, if it's on at the bar,

like, if it's, like, you can go to some bars and they'll play this to fight. No one's going to be watching it at a bar for free, much less paying for. This was a mistake. And I think, you know, and I'm with you, I'm rooting for the PFL to do well because there are another organization

and fighting isn't all about UFC because there's hundreds of fighters we need more organizations. I'm rooting for the BFL, but it's hard to root for an organization that just makes mistake after mistake after mistake. And they're constantly making mistakes. I feel they're making mistakes in order

to slight the UFC and do things to hurt the UFC, but they're really just hurting themselves. And this was a mistake. This fight, man, they probably should have had this for free. Honestly, this should have been all for free just to get the names out there. Paul Hughes is fighting. They need the world needs to see Paul Hughes and AJ McKee.

I'm not paying $50 to see Paul using AJ McKee. But they made them stay. I mean, it's a good card. There's like one main card fight. If you look at it, it's just like one of these things is not like the other. But those like Cyborg Machiko and Ganu Ferreira, Eblin Edwards 2, which we don't really need to see that fight, but it's happening and it's fine. Hughes, AJ, all great fights. The promotion for this one has been, has been very weird.

obviously because as you mentioned Dean just Don Davis is out there doing a bunch of interviews and just dumping on Kayla and saying that she not even he wants he's saying nice things but then he's like but then she ran away to the UFC to take these fights she ran away from Chris Seibor she ran away from Larissa Pacheco who Kayla already beat twice

which is just such a weird thing and then the whole thing with showing the day of UFC 307 look at Larissa Pacheco beating Kayla Harrison on the same day, which I thought was super weird. But the promotion overall, Dean, I understand that these are two huge guys, Francis and Ganu and Henan Ferrer. It's the Battle of the Giants. It makes sense.

And I'm not going to take credit for this because I've seen it all of social media. Why are they not promoting this is the battle for the lineal MMA heavyweight title? Like this is being totally forgotten here. It's absolutely insane. There's an actual title on the line and nobody knows about it, Dean. and it's wild. I swear, I really think that, I think Don Davis,

he reminds me of like, Ahab chasing Moby Dick. And I feel like he's got so much vindictive energy towards the UFC and Dana White that he does, that he's making decisions to try to hurt the UFC as opposed to just building his own brand and paying attention to his own company.

And I think it's really, it's, It's disheartening because the PFL was, it could be a great thing. It could be a really good thing. But if you don't pay attention to what you was going on in your own home, man, it's going to fall down. It's going to collapse quickly. And I feel like that's what's going on here sometimes is that he's chasing this whale and Dana White and not really taking care of his own things at home. So, man, you know, the PFL, they got a lot of work to do to catch up.

do you think the hype for this jed would be different if they promoted the legacy of the fight and that francis is the lineal heavyweight champion he's the guy that on his own accord left the ufc with the belt and went off to other avenues other opportunities or do you think you know let's just have the king con godzilla fight promo let's just show the world that these are two gigantic guys who one of them's probably going to sleep in this one I think that the way they are promoting it speaks to why the first question is so weird. And what I mean by that is they're promoting this to a casual audience in that big men swing hard. They're just running back knockout chaos.

Like that is basically just we've just pattern swapped it. It's the same thing. And that's okay. Like that's a reasonable way to promote fights to a broad mass appeal audience. but then you are restricting that with every other part of this. And to me, if you're going to be charging this for pay-per-view, it's like, okay, the people buying this are hardcore fans. There's not going to be a casual audience if there's a price attached to this at all.

But that's okay. We want to market to them. They are the base. We want to build the base as best we can. And in those circumstances, 100%, the marketing should be the heavyweight champion of the world is back. He has been off for two years, boxing. He beat Mike, or he should have, didn't beat, but should have beaten Tyson Fury.

And now he is back in MMA, and that should be the focal point of this. And they seem to really not be doing that. And I truly don't know why. I think they should be doing that at all points regardless, because the best thing they have going for them is they have the true heavyweight champion of the world in their organization. And for whatever reason, that's not really how they're carrying. this forward and instead they're doing stuff like the don davis about the freaking kaila harrison ahead of 307 where one you're just pointing out bad things and two it's so cringe worthy that

your champion pacheco comes out and is like i don't really care for that they should be promoting me outside of the context of kela harrison there shouldn't be a hey kala sucks it should be like hey Pacheco's cool, come watch her. I wish they hadn't done that. When your own champions are like, man, what are you doing here? You can't be doing something great. Like, I don't know. PFL, we said last year, I thought there was going to be a really big year for them.

They have consistently missed the mark. They've delivered some good fights, but promotionally, they have been all over the map. It hasn't been great. I am hoping that this goes well. I really want this to go well. I am not encouraged by where we're at two weeks out from the event, though. They fully missed the mark for the first, well, probably not the first time, but the biggest time they missed the mark is when Jake Paul first kind of got with them.

And they had Francis Ingano, Jake Paul, Kayla Harrison. They were in talks with Nate Diaz. They had Cyborg. They needed at that time when they had all these names stars aligned with their brand, they needed to put on a show right then and there. I don't care what it took. Get all the clear out the bank. You got to put on a show right there.

You got to have Jake Paul on there. You got to put on a show right there when you got all the biggest names. And that's when they initially missed the boat. I thought they said, you know what? Then I said, you know what? They're not serious. They're not serious about what they're trying to do

with the organization. I guess they had bigger plans down the line. But since then, like you said, they've missed the mark again and again and again, but I think it all stems from that time when they had all these, all these fighters and names under contract, and they wouldn't give Caleb Harrison a fight. They would, they let Jake Paul just kind of slide off and start doing his own things. They let Francis and got a new box. And now we're here and they're doing a $50 pay-per-view on the same day to Alabama's plan Tennessee.

It's crazy to me. Well, let's see. Let's see how this all plays out. We'll talk more about how this could all go really bad for them on next week's show, but we're running out of time. So the point for round four goes to Jedmishu. Nicely done, two to two. Beautiful. Who could have seen this coming? I know, never happens.

See? My decision doesn't matter now. I take all responsibility away from myself, and I pass it upon the viewers because it is time for the knockout round. One question will decide at all. 60 seconds for each competitor to give their response. Then you guys can vote, and then we'll decide. The viewers vote on this?

What's that? The viewers vote on this. They do. Okay. All right. That's the whole show. I just don't want to be responsible for picking who wins and loses. So, Jed, you get to the side.

This is the prices right here. Are we taking the showcase? Are we taking the dinette set in the hot tub? Or are we hoping for the car? We have to let the guests decide. We have to let the guests decide how he'd like to do it. Dean, do you want to go first? Do you want to pass it over to Jed?

I want to go second. You want to go second? Very smart man, very smart man. He knows how to play the prices, right? Jed, Jed, this is what we're going to do. We're going to have a little fun here. We're going to have a little fun here. I believe this actually happened on Sirius XM.

I believe it was Andreas Hale who put this idea out. And since then, it's taken off to a whole different thing. the idea of a one-night tournament for the BMF title. So the names that were suggested were Dustin Poirier, Justin Gaichy, Dan Hooker, and the current title holder, Max Holloway. Now, those are four terrific names. And this would be a fun-ass tournament if we were able to do this with all four of these guys. But if you were the matchmaker of this one-night BMF tournament,

are you keeping all four of these names? Are you removing one person, removing two people? What are we doing here? If you could put this hypothetical one-night BMF title tournament together, who are the four guys? Go. This is the easiest question I've ever gotten on this program. One, I tweeted this and I maintain this.

I know the UFC is not prone to do things like this. I don't care. I will pay you $500 to watch this event if you put it together. Even with the names given, There is no price that I will not meet you and be like, here, take my money. I would like to see this happen. It's such an unbelievably good idea. And it's 75% of the wage of success.

If you're doing this type of thing, Dustin Porreier, Justin Gachy, 100%, no doubt about it, includes. Adding Max Holloway, super into that as well. They've all fought each other in a little circle. They are the three kings of violence. We need the fourth, like the old four Walter Wake kings in boxing, the fourth violence king who's also fought all these people. No disrespect to Dan Hooker, love you, you're great. It's Charles Oliva.

The four of those men doing violent shit to each other is the sickest thing we can do in this sport. Let's make it happen. All right. So Dan Hooker, the backup fighter, Jed? That we're doing? Sure. Oh, he's the alternate.

Dan Hooker Michael Chandler can be the alternates. That's fine. Wow. How about high praise for your favorite fighter, Michael Chandler? All right. Let's bring in Dean Thomas. Dean, you can have fun with this however you want. We can go different divisions.

We can go open weight class. However you want to do this, Dean, if you are organizing this four-man tournament, how are you putting it together? Go. First, I got to say, I loved his Charles Oliveira. I wish I could steal that. But I'm going to go ahead and give him that one because that was his take. And I respect that. So I'm going to keep Dan Hooker in there just because I love Dan Hooker's style and tenacity.

But here's how we make this tournament happen. And it could be a reality. Is that you do this. those two, you have the four competitors fight the first two fights in a one round fight. One round fight, winner advances to the finals, which will be the main event for five rounds. So that one round fight, whoever wins that round, you go on to the main event to find out who the BMF is. And not only do you have the BMF title on the line, you also put a million dollars attached to the BMF to win the four-man tournament for that.

But still, I'm sticking with the same names. I'm adding Dan Hooker in there. I'm keeping them in there, Dustin Porigay, Max Holloway, and of course, Justin Gagey. For a million dollars, the BMF title, one round, then a five-rounder. Can you imagine one round of any combination of those names? That's the point.

Before five more rounds of any combination of those names? Yes. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Do we have a semi-fine? Do we have a bronze medalist fight too? To two guys who are not victorious, come back? No, because I probably lost the one rounds, probably got brutally fair and don't need to fight.

Yeah, that's a good point. Maybe they can play like tic-tac toe or something. I'd still watch that too. I'm sure it would be really fun. The one round and the million dollars, those are some good wrinkles. That's an excellent. wrinkles and look if we could do this i know we're just this is just us talking just us chickens now if we could do this was poiré talked about it with them on cx and was like look you know i'm going

to retire soon i'd like to retire in new orleans you know i'd like to retire in lafayette but that's not likely but the ufc is talking about in new orleans that would be the end that tournament would be the end of my career if we did that in new orleans what a send-off to one of the greatest fighters have ever had. Dustin Poria getting to do this sick-ass tournament in New Orleans, million bucks in the line. I will pay $500 for that pay-per-view. I just fly to New Orleans to attend the paper view.

You remember the prices for the sphere when they first came out? Everybody was like, holy. I think if you did this tournament, yeah, I think if you did this tournament, that people would be willing to pay those sphere prices without complaint. A hundred percent. I would have no issues. If ESPN was like, we're jacking the pay-per-view price up.

It's $300. Cool. Sure. Just give it to me. It doesn't matter. I'm not spending $50 on PFL to save that money and put it towards this paper view. Do it at the sphere. Do the history of violence throughout the night.

The history of brutal finishes and bloody battles and BMSs. Love that. I think we just set it up. And they asked Dana about it on. Tuesday and normally like when you ask him about one night tournament she's just like now we don't really do that stuff he's like yeah sounds fun i was like oh that's fun to hear that is nice to hear cast your votes by the way jed dean who gets it done uh when i see casey's magical fit here on the bottom right hand corner on the screen we'll know we have a winner jed the only problem is if max beats ilio

then we probably can't have him in this like he probably has to you know defend the featherweight belt like you're supposed to. He'd probably still do it though. He would. Like he would definitely do it. But like we should probably be like, no, you should go do your day job. Like you have you have a belt at home. Go to that.

You don't have to do. You don't get McDonald's. You got a belt at home. And then we can swap in Dan Hooker or who. But he's got the BMF title too. Yeah, but he's vacating it if he's the featherweight champion. And now the BMF is in a tournament. Boom.

Maybe he vacates the featherweight title and just defense the BMF title. He should absolutely do that if he beats to pork. Yeah, I don't even want this thing anymore. It just throws him down. I just want to prove if I could get it back. I don't care about it. I got this BMF belt. Let's go.

Dustin, boy, I'm calling you out. Casey's here. That must mean we have a winner. Any of his sleeves on. Must be chilly on California. That's for the preview shows. This is just BTO. Just BT.

All right. Dude, this is so incredibly close. Okay, you got to talk amongst yourself. I need a few more about it. Okay. Yeah, talk amongst yourselves. I got to give it. Dean, tell us to a karate combat.

Oh, karate combat. Yes, I am here for karate combat. Take, you know, it's happening tomorrow night at the Salt Lake City Convention Center. It's free on YouTube. Yeah, free. So, yeah, they're not going on the price point thing. It's free on YouTube, free on Facebook. You get all the stuff on Instagram, free on their website, karate.com.

But some great fights. Karate combat to me is the new kid on the block. And they are doing big things. Alex Bahana's sister is fighting. So yeah, so she's out here going to scrap it up. Maybe. Yeah. I'm hearing she may be fighting.

Maybe there's some drama at the Wayans today. Always. I was told. What I was told, and this is from somebody who would absolutely know and probably know more than anybody else, Dean, I'm told that Pereira's opponent asked for a catchweight of 1.30 earlier this week, and then she missed weight by four pounds. So negotiations are ongoing. I'm told there is belief the fight will still happen, but we'll see. There's no way. I think this is one of them situations where people negotiate to get a little bit more. Yeah, there's no way this fight doesn't have,

but I think that her opponent just probably needs a little bit more money. All right. We have a winner. Karate combat, the original sphere organization, by the way. Oh, yeah. Yes. Casey, who wins? Your winner today with 52% of the votes is...

Wow. Dean Thomas. Chalm. What a verb of suspense. That was well done, pregnant pause almost got me. Were he the same judges with the Rock El Pennington fight? I don't know, man.

Now, listen, I don't want to take the victory here. I thought that Jed was fantastic today. He got me with the whole Charles Olivera thing in that tournament. So I'm going to share this victory with my man, Jed, and miss you. Am I saying your name right? You are. And it's okay. It's okay, Dean.

You know, I dared to be great. That's what I dared to be great. Well, the problem was I pushed the pace on you and we should left the hands and it touches. You weapon out as the cardio in a way that I wasn't ready for. And championship rounds, I just didn't have it. Yeah, they count sometimes. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. And that's the lesson to be learned here.

It's cliche city here on BTL. And Casey, you can hit the music. Let's get on out of here. Don't miss karate combat tomorrow night. Free on YouTube. Very exciting stuff. Love that. And tomorrow we'll be back as well.

Free is a very good price. It's a very good price. Make sure you all tune in. I'll be doing post-fight interview. Make sure you all tune in Karate Combat tomorrow night. 7 o'clock Easter. There you go. And then, speaking of Freed,

Jed and I will probably be back tomorrow for the UFC Vegas 98 previews. show. Perhaps we switch roles here. Jed gets the host chair and I get to be analyst Mike. Hunded Mike. It's always a good time when that happens. But next week, lots to talk about for Dean, for Jed. I am Mike Hack, the iconic voice special intention home. Good night, everybody. Love you all. This has been Between the Links, an MMAT fighting production on the Vox Media Network.