MMA Fighting - BTL | Alex Pereira vs. Khalil Rountree, UFC 307, Dana White vs. Rankings, More

Episode Date: October 3, 2024

The UFC returns to pay-per-view this Saturday for UFC 307, and Alex Pereira has stepped in to save his third event of the year for the promotion as he defends his light heavyweight title against unlikely contender Khalil Rountree. Where does Pereira go with a win, and how shocking would it be if Rountree pulled off the upset? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will answer your questions that include the main event for Saturday's fight card in Salt Lake City. Additionally, questions may include the rest of the UFC 307 lineup, how it stacks up from start-to-finish on paper, the co-main event between Raquel Pennington and Julianna Pena for the women's bantamweight title, Dana White's issues with his own company's rankings, and his comments about Francis Ngannou's fighter pay moving over to boxing, and much more. Host Mike Heck will be joined by special guest, Morning Kombat's Brian Campbell to answer your questions all show long.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Brian Campbell: @BCampbell Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. Happy UFC 307 Eve, Eve, and look, you all know by now, we've undergone some changes here at M.A. fighting. And as a result, we're a little shorthanded this week,

especially with a UFC pay-per-view week. There's a lot going on. Got to give some folks some rest, all that fun stuff. So we're instituting the monthly Q&A program today. We're going to answer your questions. And when I say we're going to answer your questions, I'm saying me and a very special guest, he's been on the show many times.

The man cannot say no to a gas station hot dog or a piece of pizza. He's the pride of Vermont, my fellow New Englander, the content creating machine these days. From morning combat, Mr. Brian Campbell. How are you, my friend? My New Hampshire neighbor, Mike, always, always a pleasure here in the autumn, right? The best time a year.

Yeah, I might be overexposing myself, but I can't say no to Mike Heck. I love this show below the bell. This is, I love being here. Thank you so much. All right. Unbelievable. What other new shows have you launched for, Steve? Because every time I go on social media, there's a new program,

the aptly titled Brian Campbell Experience, I mean, not just a clever title. Hey, put your hand in, get experienced and find out. Okay, we're not done, you know. And hopefully it works out. We'll see what happens. But thank you very much. Great to be here.

Hey, did you finish the studio in the back of your house, Mike? I see the progress pictures. I'm excited. Almost there. We got flooring. We got framing. Someone's coming out, I think, next week, to rip the vinyl off and then replace it with some insulation and some sheet rock.

That will be the soundproofing part one and then soundproofing part two And then we just get to decorate So hopefully by the UFC 308 watch party will be locked and loaded All right, all right. And if you guys get short-handed enough over there at Vox, pick up the phone. Luke Thomas, you know, that'd be a great reunion, right? It'd be fantastic. It's always great when Luke jumps.

Luke has been on this program a couple of times. It's stunned a lot of people. But, you know, we try to bring people the very best. That's why you're here. and we are here to answer questions, like I said, to banter about with all of you. We could talk 307. We could talk Dana White's obsession with the rankings, whatever you want. So let's bring in the baddestash in all of MMA, E. Casey Leiden, who will be throwing the questions up here on the old screen.

That's an old question. And we're not. I was going to say, okay. Well, I know we can answer that question. Let's go for it. That's from last week. Okay. Jose Aldo, obviously, B.C., fighting in the feature.

Bout against Mario Batista, a guy who went from Jonathan Martinez in his final fight with the UFC, re-signs with the organization. And no, he's not fighting Dominic Cruz. He's not fighting Cory Sanhagen. He's fighting Mario Batista, who is a fine fighter. But I feel like we just did this dance with Jose Aldo, like five months ago. So if you had the Magic Pencil, BC, who would you have matched Joseo Aldo with in altitude? In altitude, no less.

Well, I think it came down to like, you know, I wanted to rail against this right away when it happened because it smells so much like the end of Anderson Silva's UFC run where it was like, you know, is he really at that age in title contention? If he's not, then why is he going to fight a Derek Brunson? Why is he going to fight a cannoneer? You know, give me legend fights. Allow this great gentleman a chance to continue to add to that resume. But if you look at Jose Aldo's recent stretch from the two consecutive losses at Bannamweights and from moving. down, including that one-sided title loss to Piotr, Jan. I mean, he might actually still legitimately be in contention. Yes, I know he comes in ranked number 11, but when you are that old

name, the former champion, you always have to stay near the phone because you could fall into an opportunity. Considering Bautista is a fun fighter, he's riding one of the sneakiest win streaks here in the deepest division in the sport that no one's talking about. If it's really true that the great Jose Aldo, who's only loss in the recent stretch of what, five or six fights, was to Marab and looks a lot better, not only by Maraub becoming champion, but by the fact that Jose was stubborn enough to stuff all 16 takedowns, then I do want to say, Mike, that if you had asked me this question a month ago, I probably would have knee-jerked and said, yeah, Dominic Cruz, insert other older name that would be a fun little, you know, many old guy super

fight there that would fill out a pay-per-view card. But if Jose's really in this dance, which he kind of is I'm starting to warm up to the idea of this matchup and to the idea that this will be a fun fight for as long as it goes. So I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I've talked myself into not hating this fight and maybe I'm dialed back in or maybe that's just because there's such slim pickings in Salt Lake City on the card this weekend outside of weird matchups that you know I like to begin with that I've come around on this. Yes, this Jose Aldo versus Barad Walsh, Willie in Salt Lake City is, in my opinion,

in the worst matchmaking in UFC history. I couldn't hate that matchmaking more. Like, there's not one fight you could make that would make me hate that more. Unless you put Henry Sohudo in a title fight next. That would, or, I mean, Michael Chan, they're fighting for the lightweight title over Armin Serugian would probably be right up there.

But Jose Aldo should have been fighting for the title. You give him a rob in high altitude. It was just ridiculous. It was terrible matchmaking. I hated it. And although fought his ass off, like you said, didn't get taken. down at all. I don't hate this fight. I don't know if they're trying to build him up or they're

doing what you're saying, BC, that they're giving him the Anderson Silva treatment. So let me ask you this. If Aldo goes in there and does what I think he's going to do, a 29, 28, 30, 27 type unanimous decision over Mario Batista. Do we get him like Marcus Begis next? Are we just going to keep throwing these surging contenders at Jose? Or do we give him a step up? No, I think you got to ask yourself for the UFC. Like, what is he to you? Is this just a place filleder of a legend? name to add some substance to a very in-between paper view card that has a lot of reasons, I think, to pick it apart or not, because if he wins this outside of that Marab loss, that's a pretty healthy overall win streak.

He's already, or sorry, he comes in to rank number 10, Batista number 11. You kind of got to give him a big fight in that top 10, if not put him in that area where, hey, if somebody falls out ahead of a big title opportunity, you're going to call him. I think the problem is, is just what I talked about earlier, that the vision is so deep, but he's got to almost get a top five win, in my opinion, if he gets past this, it continues, because I don't know if he does win this one. At what point do the old legs come in? At what point does 38 become a detriment? This guy moved down in weight in this code of his career and is still this absolute badass. I don't think you can go back to one on this level

of matchmaking, and I think if he does win this, we got to talk about what's one fight that actually could get him back into another title shot. thy name is Sean O'Malley. That's what I would do. I would do Jose Alda versus Sean O'Malley next. Oh, wow. That's how I would do it. Yeah.

I don't hate that. I don't hate that at all. That is aggressively awesome, especially if he handles Batista, another young guy who's looking to crack into true contention. Dude, we got to give him as flowers, right? Like, holy crap. Come on.

just ridiculous. Mike, does this play into my larger, you know, we don't try to characterize fighters by where they come from, you know, unless you're saying something positive. I'm going to say something positive. All of these great Brazilian legendary fighters are able to keep it going at such a high level into their later 30s at almost a pace more rapid than any other place. What's in the water in the favelas? Because this has just been incredible across the board at the extended longevity of all of these great names that you would assume with the mileage they have at this point that you would see a market decline in their ability. You have to see Jose fight in spots for sure,

but he's fighting in enough spots to defeat legitimate guys. It's incredible. I mean, the big thing for Jose Aldo is defense is in the water because he is just an incredible defensive savant in there. He barely gets hit. You can't take him down. And if you do, he gets right back. up. He's just a, he doesn't get hit and he hits people pretty damn hard even at 38. So I think that's

the biggest thing of his career. And I think to, from Mario Batista to win this fight, he's going to have to take Jose Aldo down. And I don't think he can do it. So it could get interesting. The altitude, I do have questions, especially late. It is Jose Aldo. He is 38. I have questions with that fight. I have questions on another Bannam White fight on this main card as well. But Jose Aldo is just the man. He's just the man. And he's just the man. And he is. If you get him at dog money, you have to take him at this point. And look, if you say, okay, how's Batista going to win this? And I'm picking Batista, by the way, in a very close fight.

And I think the altitude plays some level of control. But you're right. If the takedowns get stuffed, and if you just stuff Marab that many times, they probably will. The problem with the idea of trying to spam Jose and outwork him is he can still finish you with either hand at any point. So it's, it is power the last thing to go in that. MF are still bringing it, man. Love him. Respect him.

I mean, I get a lot of flack, Mike, because I do like to create lines in history in the sand that say, okay, you're a hall famer, but are you upper room? Are you five chairs in the upper room table where GSP, where Silva, where Fado, we're Mighty Mouse, where John Jones, those levels sit. A lot of people tell me, hey, B.C. create that sixth chair for Jose and stop disrespecting that man. What do you think about that? Completely agree. I would, I think there's a case to be made for the fifth. chair. He's just, he's so underrated. Even though he gets some flowers and people just respect the hell out of the man, his career is so good. Unfortunately, they remember 13 seconds and the whole

thing with Connor and just getting melted like that, that becomes a big part of his story. But just, if that's just a part of the story, if we look beyond that, the befores and the afters, even the yon fight, yeah, he got dusted up pretty late in that fight. He looked damn good early, though. He was putting the boots to yawn early on. Does it offend you when I play with people's emotions and say, man, I love Jose, top 10 fighter of all time. But I think DC's got more of a historical claim. People want to hurt me when I say things like that.

Why do we disrespect Daniel Cormier? He was almost the top shelfer when he knocked out Stipe right there. I mean, come on. Yeah. I mean, if Stipe just only knew what he learned in fight two and fight three, that if he just punched Daniel Cormier, in the body. Yeah, in the body.

You'll beat him. But yeah, it was just, DC is definitely in these conversations too. He was just too nice. Seeing him as a heel being the family man and who he always was, just getting booed out of the building by John Jones fans,

after all the horrific things he did, was just true MMA. I mean, just the definition of MMA. It's unbelievable. That's why we love this sport so much. All right. Thank you. much.

Dave Sandin. Good, good job, Casey. Yeah. Killed it. He's waiting all week. Some Aldo talk.

Yeah. All right. All right. Let's get this is the big ones now. Who would win in a fight between Mike's dog and B.C.'s cat? Probably your cat. My dog. My dog thinks he's,

he doesn't even think he's tough. He's just so gentle and nice. And no, I mean, I've got, I've got three cats. But the one that has my heart is Reggie Jackson. and even though he's a bully to the other female cats, when they stand and fight, he gets rocked. He never moves his head. He's like an MMA fighter.

He never moves his head or brings his hands up. He just sits there and takes it and he gets lit up and then has to kind of just shake it off and walk away dejectedly. Your dog would mawereggie Jackson, okay? But that's not a negative against him, okay? He's more of a lover, to be fair. They'd actually probably be buddies, and they would host their own MMA podcast together

where they would come on each other's shows all the time. It would be the best. Yeah, it would be weird and gross. I'd be into it, yeah, for sure. Didn't expect this question today. Go from Josealdo to our pets fighting each other. No softballs here. No softballs.

All right, here we go. Respect. Yeah. All right. From Danger Mouse. Dangerous. What do you think of Eileen Perez being suspended from French MMA for twerking.

Is this really, is true? I don't, I don't want to fall for a prank. This isn't real, right? Okay, I don't think so. I don't want to get a job here. Is this a hypothetical world? Should there be,

should there be a shake the finger at her? Like, I don't think so. Maybe a warning. Yeah. I mean, that says it. Putting the,

putting the ass in the face and then following the opponent as she tried to get out of the way. I've said on morning combat, I'll say it anywhere. Like, I love weird sauciness in combat sport, so I'll allow some of this. But that's about as disrespectful as it does get. So if a conservative fighting commission wanted to be like, hey, we got to cut that out and warn, I'd be fine. But I also want to say, like, let's not turn this into the no fun league. I like expression.

I like weird people, Mike. You know what I mean? I don't know what that says about me hanging out with you guys. But once again, I'm here for it. for it, all right? Just, yeah. I mean, even if she is, who cares? She could fight anywhere else besides France.

And apparently the French commission was just super weird all week with Brian Battle and Brendan Allen telling weird stories. Maybe take a little breather from there. I don't know what you do. The crowd is so fun, though. They're so loud and electric and they're so into it. We don't get crowds like that in the United States really anymore. So it's always a refreshing thing to hear those crowds just really.

really get after it. Even they make PFL interesting when they bring Dume Bay there. They do. It's pretty fantastic. Let me ask you this, though, because what Eileen has done in recent fights has gone, it's changed my heart. She to me was like abrasive and absurd when she arrived. And now she's endearingly abrasive and absurd. So she's won me over with the ridiculie. It's become like, you know, she's made for have you seen the shit every Monday on morning combat. But do we take her seriously in this division? Because she is putting together like a decent streak against names, though, that are on, you know, that are on this little.

She could not be in a better division right now. She's, I mean, just being in headlines at all at women's Banimate is incredible. It is so difficult to do in 2024. And she's doing it. I think she goes, I think you get that Tracy Cortez fight. I know Cortez has been fighting at 125, but if I'm Tracy Cortez, I'm definitely taking this fight

because it's the biggest one she could get right now. And it's one she could possibly win and make a huge jump up at 135 because she hasn't lost at 35 in the UFC yet. So she can make a little dent at Banimouet as well. And what Eileen Perez needs to do, if she goes out and beats Tracy Cortez and does the whole twerk job again,

she needs to get on that microphone and call Misha Tate and just, or Holly Holm, like just go through the tour of the former champions who many, believe could be past their prime. I think more so with Holly. Misha looked incredible against Julia Avila, but she hasn't fought since.

Just go on the big name tour at this point. She could be three wins away from fighting for a title right now. And that division, I don't even know if you need three wins. I think if you're just active, if you just show up, right? I mean, Giuliana Pena went away for two years.

And now she's back and she's fighting for a championship despite being what? Three and three since 2017. with victories over Nico Montaño and her final fight and a 40-something Sarah McMahon. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Nunes is in there, obviously, too. But, yeah, this would be a, this would be a, that's a saucy matchup, Mike, Cortez versus Eileen.

I mean, that, that's a, there's something there. Imagine what the French commission is going to say when they find out about only fans, right? Wow. Yeah, right. Do it in Tampa. Florida is a perfect state to host. fight of that magnitude.

That's a Florida fight if there ever was one. Hey, I got a great, I know who deserves that. Do you know who actually deserves that? Who deserves that? Tai Chi Palace, who has yet, which has yet to be rewarded, right, for the great early COVID debacle. You are so right. That could just be the only fight.

Just bring that fight and nothing else. Let T.J. DeSantis call it. Shout out, T.J. Let's do it. All right. Let's go. Shout out to T.J.

Great dude. Share it, dark. All over UFC flight pass. Man's a very busy man these days. Dude, Eileen Perez, she's a star. I want to, if Julia Pena gets her butt kicked this Saturday,

I would love to see Perez versus Pena for the next fight. I think that headlines Tai Chi Palace, as you call it. Have you guys ever actually been there? I never have, have you? No. You have, right, Casey? Oh no, I don't go, I don't go that direction. That's a scary part of California.

I did, I did time at the Commerce Casino there in East L.A. That was a trip. I go to commerce like every other week. That's where I had my fight. Big time, big time card playing going on. Big time culture in there for sure. Beautiful commerce. All right.

Thank you much, Danger Mouse. Oh, back to, let's talk a little bit more about the French. Brian Battle told James Lynch that the French Commission tried to get samples after official way in Paris, and it was a mess backstage. Dana White said no. Thoughts on the mess that was UFC Paris. So Brennan Allen also had similar stories about this. Dana is saying no. Dana's just been on a crusade this week, just saying this is a myth and that's a myth.

And if you don't hear it from us, that's the publicly stuff, stuff that said publicly that people believe and run with. It's been a weird week for Dana White. but what do you like, it'd be nice if somebody you'd think of this little way, it has to follow up when he says things and just said like,

okay, why? Explain yourself. Like, why is that the case? Please. So Dana said don't believe the fighters. Is that what he's, don't believe the fighters. Believe me.

Is that what Dana said? Yeah. His whole thing this week is I know and you don't. I know the numbers you don't. I know what happened. They don't. That's been his thing all week long.

He's been better. I've actually, like, been saying to people, like, he's actually been better. He's been promoting a little bit. He's had some, like, fun things to say. Yeah, the rankings thing is dumb, but he's actually, like, trying to promote John Jones. He hasn't promoted a fighter in, like, three years. It's wild. But this week, it's just been real strange, BC.

This included with Brian Battle and Brennan Allen and all the stuff with France. Yeah, I thought Dana had kind of made a turn back to, like, 2010 Dana again. The guy that we, like, as fans in media, used to only. partner with and the idea of pushing this sport up over the mountain and getting it to, you know, not just respectability, but to the idea of where it is today with an ESPN plus deal, rumors of even bigger ones with Netflix and Prime or whatever, what have you, whatever will become of that. And the idea that it's a legitimate major four or five sport.

And it kind of is now. But I thought maybe it was the excitement linging around his boxing talk of late and what he plans to do in 2025. that sort of brought back that loose fun guy who will actually hear your argument. You know, some of those debates you mentioned were actually fun to watch. Yeah, but this was a very, like, adamant, everyone's wrong. I'm right. Everybody else sucks.

But in regards to the question about the French commission, like, how much can Dana actually do, though, to step in and sort of get them in line to, I guess, be on the same level with some of these rulings that the state commissions and the states are? He just won't go. Make that threat. Just threaten them. Yeah, just threaten them. That's probably working.

Just like, yeah, fine. Like, we can go anywhere and make money. It's fine. So we like coming there. Your crowds are fun. It's cool to come. And there are fighters. The region is growing in terms of the sport.

So it's a somewhat important area for them. They can just go literally anywhere else. They can go to freaking Kansas City, Missouri, and make the same amount of money than they would going all the way to Paris. So they would actually like save money, probably make more to not go there. So, yeah, I mean, that's the only thing you can really do. He can't change the rules or any of that. Be like, you know, loosen up the strings a little bit and we'll see you next September.

Would you go as far, Mike, on that point you just made and say that maybe James Krause's gambling parlay stops the UFC from going back to Kansas City or is that unrelated? Probably unrelated. I just want to get that. Apparently, he's doing, Krause seems to be doing pretty well if you follow on social media. so I don't know that is the weirdest story ever that whole thing was just a it was a fireball

and then it just became a snowball in like three months nothing just vanished and melted away that's amazing PR that's amazing PR then it is because they can't have us talking about that Casey that's that's the worst threat to their future financial business particularly with betting sponsors

which is the future and all that so I understand why they jumped on that put out the fire through all the blame kind of in one direction and we're like, hey, that never happened. Yeah, but even just not even the UFC part of it, just the story itself. Because when it started, there was all sorts of things. There was federal investigations. There was all sort of things happening.

And now no one is saying anything. Nobody knows a thing. I think died so quickly. It's still shocking. People still ask me about it. And I'm just like nothing. There's literally no updates on that situation at all. If we pull back clips from old shows, it's all of us saying, this will be the biggest story in 2024.

This will be the biggest story. So congratulations to the PR department at UFC. They did a great job on that's me. The story didn't go away. We just have nothing to say. It's still there. We just, what do we? There's no updates.

Yeah. There's no, the story has not evolved at all. Because I've asked around, trust me, for the last, like, year and change, like, information was coming in and stopped. So take that for however you want. All right. Thank you very much, Mr. Boza. All right.

I'm going to throw this out there. I don't really know what it's about, but this could be fun. Did MMA on point do BC dirty with their recent video, not mentioning he called that Inganu would wrestled gone. Do you know about this, B.C.? I don't know the reference to the video, but I doubt they did because, you know, I visited the MMA on point offices in London. I couldn't have more love for those guys, Jason and what, Balian, you know, the video game playing kickboxing analyst, love that guy too. But, you know, let's set the record straight, Mike. For as many times as we get it wrong, we should be allowed to celebrate the rare times that we, you know,

like when I came on the MMA beat and we're like, guys, you're wrong. Woodley's going to finish till. Or, you know, that time I did say, what happens if Inganu takes gone down and lays on him like Brock did to Frank Murr in the rematch? And sometimes, you know, you do know what the hell you're talking about in this game. But, you know, I don't need any more flowers on this topic because I've been, you know, I've been giving them to myself for many years now. So, yeah, that's fine.

It's fine. All right. Thank you much. All right. Another question from Mr. Boza. Can we get Mike and Brian's thoughts on the career that is Carla Esparsa? Her retirement is pushed down on the early prelims versus Tisha Pennington. So BC, final fight of Carla Sparza's career this Saturday.

Normally when fighters say this is definitely my last fight, it certainly means there's going to be at least one more. But I absolutely believe Carla Sparza will be competing for the final time on Saturday. What's your legacy? How do you look back on her career? Well, I was excited about this fight and this narrative and really her getting the opponent in Tisha Pennington, who she fought in the original Ultimate Fighter season in that exhibition,

and won a majority decision, which led to her winning the championship and winning the inaugural title. The first fight I covered in person for MMA back when I was working for ESPN.com just so happened to be Asparza versus Nami Unis won for that inaugural title, and it opened my eyes up to what's,

straw weight can be in terms of the competitiveness in that division and look where we are 10 years later. Yeah, I haven't focused as much as others on like, man, this fight is getting buried and it is. I do hope she gets the treatment that Michelle Waterson Gomez recently received that I almost thought was maybe like too much, but I do understand what they were trying to say. And Michelle had been such an early pioneer and a, you know, and a great, a great contestant for the UFC through so many years. but as far as it's got a different resume she's in what has been historically the deepest

women's division without question and she's a two-time champion in that division so she'll not only get the understandable recognition as a pioneer the first champion in this great 115 pound division's history when you look at the totality of who she actually fought i mean they're really i asked her i went out of my way to interview her this week on my uh on my youtube channel because of the respect i have for the division everything she's accomplished and And I think the biggest thing about her resume that I respect the most is that even though she was almost robbed of the celebration of the moment for what happened when she became a two-division champion because of how weird that performance was from Nama Unis, which made their rematch so weird.

But separate from that, the fact that she was for a while considered a fighter from a different era, from the first strawweight era who maybe hadn't fully evolved. And she, you know, she had some stretches. She lost two fights in a row for the first time in her career. We weren't thinking about her ever again as a title contender, right? We were saying, hey, she was that person that came, won the first title, got obliterated by Yawanna, and that was it. The fact that she was able to stick with this, evolve her game, become more dangerous. I mean, I talked to her this week, and I said, look, what is the best performance that you've ever put forth?

Because outside of those, you know, the loftiness of the two wins over Nami Unus, which looked great on any resume, she ran through Yon Shao. and finished her in a key fight in that win streak in the second half of her career that led her back to the title level. And she was never that threat offensively in the beginning. So I think you have a fighter who already has the pioneer label, has great longevity fighting into her late 30s, is doing the rear thing of someone who's walking away on their own terms and doing it right after giving birth,

going up against a former opponent who also is a fighting mother herself. I think her legacy is even deeper by the fact that she stuck with her craft, went all the way back to the top of the mountain a second time. And if you look over the history of this division and the big names, maybe if we're making a Mount Rushmore of it, we'd be quicker to put obviously, understandably so, Yawanna, Rose, and Wei Lee in there, even though Asparza's got two wins over Rose.

But I think you can certainly make an argument just the same that she belongs on that Mount Rushmore with them. She's not the greatest fighter in this division's history, but she's one of the most consistent forces. And I have so much respect for when somebody has early success early in their career, but can stay the course and figure it out and find ways to come back. And that's exactly what she did, always being a smiling face, you know, a decent, honest, happy quote. Yeah, Cookie Monster, you got my respect.

You've done great. Go out with a bang on your own terms. Well done. Love that. Love everything you just said. It's hard. I agree with everything you. you said, she will be one of the fighters that the newer generation of fan will argue with the next

generation of fan about five years from now when they talk about the best fighters at 115, the best women's fighters of all time. Because I think Carla will get the respect she deserves, but it's going to take a long time. It's going to take this new generation of fan to evolve and get the ones that don't want to out of being fans. the fan base that actually sticks with it are going to go and appreciate what color or spars is done. I respect her so much because she has been the victim of timing

and just unluckiness. Her entire UFC run, she went on the Ultimate Fighter season 20 to crown a new champion. When most fans knew, BC, you were probably one of them, that Yawani and Jacek and Klajadalea were the two best straw weights in the world. We all knew that. We were ready that. we were just like whoever wins this is going to just go get romped on by yawanna and that's exactly

what happened carl goes and wins the belt she gets romped on by yawanna one of just the most vicious performances by a new champion you will ever see bounces back with a win took some time off you know had a had the up and down ups and downs but yes it was the yon janaan performance where you were just like oh this is what we've been waiting for the whole boring moniker the well she eeked out a split decision that MMA decision says 62% that she lost that fight,

that Marina Haudriga should have won that fight. And then she goes out and just obliterate John John on. And I don't think anybody saw that coming. Then goes out, wins the belt, people crapped on the performance, and Carl just shook it off. She didn't care.

She did not care. Went into fight John Wei Lee. Try she did. It did not go well. I don't think anybody expected it to go well, but she went in there. She wasn't afraid of it. and got after it.

The one thing I wish we could have seen was one more fight with Yohanna. Yeah. See if she could get that one back. And I don't think she wanted it probably in like 2017, 2018, but I think by the time 2020 you came around

after we saw the first Zhang Wili Yana fight and we saw Carla on this run after the marina fight, I think Claudia would have taken that or Carla would have taken that fight in five seconds. She would have taken it because I think it would have been good for her as well.

So that's probably like the one thing I wish we got to see out of her to see if she could at least improve upon the performance she had in her first title defense. But yeah, vastly underrated, incredibly underappreciated. And she's going on her own terms. She's a mom, brought the kid up on the Media Day stage, which she thought was really cool. Someone who's going to get her flowers, but it's just going to take a little bit of time, unfortunately.

I agree 100% of everything you guys have said. And also I would like to add that the USC did a wrong. because they did not let her wear her singlet to fight in. She said, when she fought Invicta, she always wore a wrestler singlet. And it was amazing. Oh, that's right. Good call. Great call on that.

She kept it. She was strong of it, but UFC. She did wear it in the first Rose fight. They did let her wear? Oh, okay. Yeah. There you go. So, I think it's a tough, a tough thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Say, all right, but Carlos Spars. Happy trails. All right, let me got here. Maybe there's a chance Tisha retires. That's a good question. I wonder that in this moment as well, whether there's part of her that was, you know,

wanted to make the comeback post-pregnancy, which has got to be like the hardest thing you can do. I have so much respect for the fighters that have done that. McKenzie, Dern did it so quickly, almost to try to prove a point. But that would be interesting. Have we had a fight in memory? We're both retired at the end of it besides Jones versus Miyich at UFC 309. in November. No,

the, in Kansas City, it was in Kansas City. Zach Cummings and, uh, who was,

it was a great fight nobody was going to know. Yeah. Yeah. Was that coming in the corner in that fight? Because he retired shortly after two,

you know what I mean? You know what I mean? Full circle, full circle. All right. Uh, thank you, Mr.

Boza. Uh, Ed Herman. There's Ed Herman. Oh, yeah. Uh, Mike and BC

is two, East Coast guys, who is the future of New England area MMA? That is a toughie right now. I got to tell you. Rob Fong. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, I haven't been following the regional circuits locally in the MMA space, but do you think New England has, what, let me ask you, Mike, what do you think is New England's MMA reputation since you?

you and I both come from this coveted area where this country started. All right. Mike grew up right next to Plymouth Rock, directly next to it, the house next door to it. New Hampshire is like way further north than that, B.C. In New Hampshire, the original Plymouth, New Hampshire.

God, man. I mean, man, when I first got into, like, covering the sport, New England MMA, there was a true, an absolutely true case that New England was in the conversation for having the best region

in the country like there is just stud after stud every event was big there CES is on fight pass Cage Titans is putting on these big cards like all the time Cage Titans is still putting on huge cards I love those guys

dude when Kenny Floria was a contender that Boston area was known that was a new area for a hotbed yeah yeah cater and Fawn and then you had guys like Matt Bissette, you had guys like Greg Rebello. Like you would see all these guys

finally get on the contender series and get their opportunities. And some would get there and some didn't. And there are other like hot shot prospects that just either never lived up to the expectations or it took a really long time for them to get there. Mitch Raposo is in the UFC right now. So my guess would be it's him

because he's still, I think he's 25. He's still super young. People were saying this kid's going to be in the UFC when he's 18, making his amateur and pro debut. Like this guy's really, really good, got thrust into a short notice fight in his UFC debut against a guy who missed weight, got thumped around a little bit,

but made it to the end. And I still think he's got something there. So I'll say him because I've just been following him for so long. I was interviewing him well before I was with MMA fighting. So I'll say him because he's in a division where he, could do well, but it needs to kind of happen quickly for them. Don't forget Dana White, born in New England and Manchester, Connecticut, and don't forget the greatest fighter in New England MMA history, the maniac Tim Sylvia, shout out, right?

That's incorrect. The greatest fighter in New England MMA history, former UFC fighter, hopefully soon to be once again UFC fighter, Paco Porter. Wow, shout out Parker. Oh, yes, Parker Portley. I like that guy. Shout him out. Absolute legend.

The fact that he is still a free agent astounds me. Like Gamebred doesn't want Parker Porter. What the hell are we doing here? Get this man on a freaking fight card. BKFC, nobody's signing in the sky? What is happening? How is he a free agent?

I don't get it. Sad. Here we go. I mean, that guy took the tour of Tafa, both brothers, right? He got sent to hell by both. It was fantastic, right? Last stand to ask, Brian, when are you going to get Brett Okamoto on MK?

Hopefully, well, you know what? He's never been on MK. I was going to try to get him on the Brian Campbell experience, which is like an MK spin-off of some ways. But, you know, Brett's a busy guy over there. You know what the thing is? For Brett living in Vegas, I never see him at big fights in Vegas, ever. Brett, what are you doing?

Who are you hiding from, Brett? I saw him briefly. I went and had lunch with James Lynch the day of UFC 300, like right near T-Mobile because we were doing the watch party out in Vegas. And I saw Brett with his mom and his young child. And Brett's a great guy. Such a nice guy. He's always been very, very nice.

Just the man. So I will be definitely watching that episode if we can pull that off. I've been over his old house before the one that Francis Ngano bought. And then I once interviewed Ingano, and Gano, remember during that stretch when he couldn't get a UFC title shot and he was whatever. So I interviewed him. He did it from his car, which I thought was weird. And then I dropped a weird joke that I think got lost in translation,

asking if he found any nudie mags deep in the attic crawl space when he took over Okamoto's place and whether he's willing to out him. And his response was so like shaken and negative that I would bring up his house that I had edited it out after. So, you know, you take elves in this career and you learn, you know what I mean? Respect for taking the shot, though, BC. Always. All right.

Shoot or shoot? That's, you know what I'm saying? That's what came Velasquez said. Yeah, we all had the you miss 100% of the shots you don't take poster on our walls growing up, especially in New England. That's what we do. Thank you, last stand. Thank you. I got a, I think this is a troll question, but here we go.

Is shooting 51 into a 40 good asking for a friend? Jed mesh you on that question. Wow. Is he talking about golf? What are we doing here? Is this over my head? I don't know. This is a golf thing?

I don't know. Oh, it's an out-bill thing, right? Is he talking about a shot into a 40-ounce? Is that where he's going with this? Or is this some weird, like, back-in-lawyer texture? I'm thinking that's probably that's what it is. All right, all right. Jed's a wild man.

I play golf. Yeah, he is. I played golf with Jet a couple of times like the last two trips to Atlanta and he caught me on some bad days and I don't think I ever dropped a 51 at any point sure felt like it but I don't think it actually was

So what's a 40? Is 40 like what is Is that good? I don't know 40s not bad I'd be happy with 40s for every nine holes I play I'd be thrilled. All right

Well, thank you, Jed, I guess. Here, right, next question. Sorry. And the refrain of many females over his life, I got to believe that. Thanks. Has there been a bigger jump from card to card culturally than Paris to Saul Lake City? I'd say whatever... That is wild.

Whatever card followed UFC Moncton used to be the end. answer to this question. That's so funny. That's very, very funny. Yeah. All right. Another one from Lazybird. On paper, this is the oldest average age card in UFC history.

What does this say about the current state of MMA? I didn't even really think about that. But now that I hate it, it's absolutely got to be true with Pereira and Roundtree in Pennington and Pena and Aldo and Kayla. and Stephen Thompson and the list goes on and on. There's a Tisha, yeah.

A lot of plus 35ers. Tim, Tim Mee, Korni, Tim Mien, G. Wonderboy. The dirty bird, good Lord. You know what, maybe the first card in history where every fighter retires afterwards.

Marina Rodriguez is 372. What do you think about transgently related to this. Is that the right word? I don't think so, but go for it. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

What do you guys believe in my idea, the idea that I merged from other people's ideas to fix the problem with these in-between really bad fight night cards and just say, I love the Dana White Contender Series. I love the way it's shot. I love a lot of the parts about it. What if moving forward we just combine fight nights with Dana White Contender Series cards? They were a mixture of guys trying to get in. and guys who are on their way out,

and you match those guys up against each other, and the loser gets cut. I think that's a, rather than going on Twitter to that UFC rankings account, it says, oh, look, that guy I used to love is now cut. Why don't we see them cut getting cut in the cage?

You know what I'm saying? It would raise the stakes on every single fight. Dude, we've been saying this for like three years that you should be doing. They should be doing this. Yeah, loser leaves town or like the last, last chance fight, the Chris Tione rule set fight where it's

your last final, final, final chance. The Kevin Lee idea, like people gave me so much shit for this, but I was, I told, when I asked them, I was like, they should have absolutely put you on the contender series. Like, I understand that there, the show is,

there's a, I guess a definition for what the program is supposed to be. But let's be honest, the show is not what it was the first two seasons. We've already been through, memory lane with the first two seasons of Contender Series and how difficult it was to not get on the show but to

earn a UFC contract. We had guys getting first round finishes that weren't getting UFC contracts in the first couple of seasons of the Contender Series. Now they're bringing in dudes who just are there to get washed. Like literally are there to get run over by somebody that they want on their roster

so badly. So what's the difference of bringing Kevin Lee in to fight some other guy who is maybe on the of getting back into the organization, who left and won like three fights in a row on the regional scene, there would be the most watch contender series in years if you brought Kevin Lee on there.

I don't understand why they didn't even think about this, especially if you're paying Kevin what you're paying the rest of the fighters, which is what he would have expected to get. 12 and 12, baby. That's the life. That's it. That's it. Crazy.

Yeah, that is an old-ass card this weekend. Mike, where do you do you? It's very, yeah. Do you think that this is a really good fight night card this pay-per-view on Saturday? Or have you reached the level of, okay, it's not perfect, but this is an absolutely acceptable pay-per-view card? I think it's pretty good. I think it's pretty good.

308 is unbelievable. But this is pretty good. You get Pereira, which is always good. Like, name value-wise. I'm setting you up for a question. What would you rate this out of 10? Do you think there's like a 7 as a pay-per-view, a 6-5? What do you think?

I think we're in the sevens. If they had switched it and done what they probably should have and had in the main event, Pereira versus the number two ranked Ancolaev, and in the co-main event, Rocky Pennington against Kayla, would that have significantly changed this in your eyes? Because I'm of the belief that it would have. Maybe.

I mean, I am definitely interested in the Ankolae fight, but the quote-unquote dirt bag in me, I love Pereira versus Roundtree so much. I love it so much because it makes no sense and I don't care that it doesn't make any sense because I've accepted it immediately and it's going to be electric and someone's getting got real quick.

Don't know if you get that with the Ancolaeufite although I think Ankylaif doesn't get enough credit for being fun and vicious and violent. But we were supposed to get Mowzhar versus Al Jermaine Sterling on this card too, which would have definitely bumped this up into probably the low eights. Yeah, name value-wise, it's pretty damn good.

Wonderboy versus Joaquin Buckley on most pay-per-view lineups this year is a main card fight, probably a featured fight. And on a couple of these, probably the co-main event. So the fact that this is on the prelims tells you about at least the depth of this card because of the name value on it. It's fair. That's a fair take. Yeah. It's not great. I just don't get Pena.

It's not the best. I don't get Pena in this spot. I really don't. I really don't. I don't get it, but we'll move on. Well, I mean, I get it. This division is trash. It's so, it's such a bad division.

And Kayla, I think, I'm actually intrigued by this Vieira fight. Everyone thinks she's just going to rinse Caitlin Vieira. And there's a, there is a chance that that happens. But remember how I was talking about the Jose Aldo fight is the elevation fight that I think about? this Kayla Harrison fights the other one because she's going to mock Caitlin Vierre early in this, early in this fight. Caitlin's only been finished once.

She's never been finished on the floor. She got deaded by Irene Aldana in that piston left hand that she landed from the moon. But she is very, very durable. And if she can extend this fight into like the middle of the second round, like this could get interesting. I still think Kayla ultimately wins,

but there is a chance this goes to the cards. Like, I would not be surprised if this goes to the cards. I don't hate that theory, but does it get offset by the often Luke Thomas refrain, which is right, that because that decently intelligent cage used to ban Kayla from throwing elbows, that adding this to her offense on the ground, maybe that's a big part of the minus 900 betting line from the folks in Vegas. It's actually minus 1100 now. Money just keeps born in on Kayla. It's crazy.

I don't know. I'm just, I'm of the belief that Kayla. coming in fighting a big name and former champion Holly Holman, running through her like you would, I guess, expect her to. She earned the title shot because how many times you're going to make this lady

make $1.35 as ridiculous it is that she's doing that. So why waste this opportunity when if Kayla went in there and beat Rocky and won the title, the first fight we'd all want to see in that division is probably her against Pena anyway. So now you're risking that Pena loses to Rocky, just like you're risking

that Kayla loses to Viera. just, it's one of those decisions that I just don't get from a company like business standpoint either. Yeah, I don't know why she's fighting at all, but I think, like, why not be in position to go fight for the belt? They've all been saying, like Raquel's been saying it, Kayla's even saying it, that there's, there's vibes in the air that they don't even think Giuliana's going to make it to the fight. Now, she's in Salt Lake City and she's doing media and such, but you never know. This is a weird sport. And if something happens with Julianna Pena, they ain't calling Kettlin Vieira to come in and step up.

and fight for the belt. They're going right to Kayla and she will take that in five seconds. So you're saying the MMA gods have a chance to fix the situation like they did with Nate Diaz versus Chameyev? Could be.

It could be. Always have hope. It is, you know, fall brings in very weird results. That was a September paper view event where the Tony Ferguson, Nate Diaz thing happened. So we just push it back a few weeks,

almost on the anniversary. A few weeks belated. Why not? Like, fall also brings in pumpkin everything. What would you say you are enjoying this autumn season from the pumpkin standpoint the most egregiously and addictively? Ice coffee. Pumpkin ice coffee? All right.

From Duncan? Oh, yeah. There's nowhere else. I'm not doing it. We're New Englanders, right? You know what I mean? That's what it is. Yeah.

Duncan, they know me by name. Hey, Mike. As soon as I walk in, they have like, like, I'm that guy that. I don't even have to order. They just see me walk in and they're already pouring the stuff. Yeah, your norm from cheers. There is a power in that. When you can build that in your local community, there's a power in that.

All right. It's a beautiful thing. All right. Shout out to Dunks. Thank you much. Speaking of Dunks, keep those super chats coming. Yeah. Yeah.

Mike needs more pumpkin. Let's go. We've only one super chat. I had to stop drinking it. I had to stop drinking it. And back to the black ice coffees. I had to just, I had to stop, force myself to stop drinking them because I was, it's getting a little ridiculous. All right.

You were pissing orange or we're not going that far? I like to, like, usually I have like one or two, but then I was, I was like, damn, this is so good. And then Casey was talking about oat milk when I first got to M.A. fighting. So now I put oat milk in it. It's like 10 times better. The sweetness. Which is insane. Did not see that coming.

Shut up. It's a beast band here. Mike, Brian and Mustache. Diego Lopez backup for Max and Ilya. But if Diego had to step in for Ilya, how would that affected being a title fight? Would it then be considered a title eliminator fight? Interesting.

Maybe they do the BMF. It would be an interim title fight. That's what they do. It would be an interim title fight. Yeah, that's true. I guess you could do BMF. That is interesting. You could do the BMF?

You could do BMF. We've never seen someone defend the BMF, correct? Yeah, right? Nope. Not successfully. Okay. Are you one of those lineal heads who believes that Kamaro Usman took the BMF title from Jorge? No.

Okay. Absolutely not. Come on. All right. Thank you much, Beast Man. Lazy Bad. Who's the most physically imposing impressive figure in women's MMA today? Harrison, Cyborg.

I had Pacheco in there She looks like an absolute badass With the hair, the tats And the reputation, right? Yeah That's a great pick Trying to think if there's anybody else John Wai Lee is pretty damn impressive

She is an imposing figure If you walked by her on the street You would just immediately think she's going to beat the shit She could beat the shit out of you So I would put her in that conversation as well. Casey, what do you think? Rindakai. Do you remember?

Is she still fighting? I don't know. I just love Rindakai. It was just an opportunity for everyone to go, who's Rindakai? And they Google her. I'll have to hit up Drake, because he would know the answer for that for sure.

Who is the least imposing, but obviously badass female fighter? currently. Ooh. Deirna Janji Roba. That might be the, yeah, that probably is the correct answer. She can fight. She can legitimately fight, but yeah.

She also has a, she's also close to going down a Roxanne Mataferri road of trying to become the person who is the most accessories in one single fight. Like I'm expecting her to come in next time with like the Kobe, like leotards underneath the fighting shorts, you know? All right. If anybody could do it, it's fair to John Girovo. I'm very excited for that fight with Tatyatta Zores. I'm very intrigued by it. Why are we waiting? Why does Tatiana have to pass more tests to get Wei Lee when there's an injury concern there?

And she came back and proved it, right? Because Zhang's going to try to go to 125. Is that what's happening? I think so. And if that's the case, and I'm not saying this from like an insider perspective. It just seems like that's what she wants to do. UFC 306, she kept talking about wanting to fight for the flyway title, which I'm totally fine with, but just vacate.

If you want to go to 125 and challenge for the flyway title, power to you, but give up the shroway title. Let's do John Jaroba versus Tatiana Suarez for the belt. Then I'm fine with it. Yeah, if you come back down to 115, then you get a title shot. You don't have to work your way back up. You just, you get a title shot coming back. certainly but you can't be you can't be like that's the thing that annoys me the most is that there's

there's no risk for the champion to go up like volkinovsky lost twice at featherweight or as the featherweight champion for the lightweight belt and then still got to be the champion like come on just give it up then go do things no one's going to care if you don't get if you don't carry the two titles like connor did nobody cares nobody cared when john jones won the heavyweight title nobody gives a shit if they win do the shot of two belts and then strip them and then yeah you get

the photo you're good Dana steel all you want is the photo you just want the photo that's all of this all that's yeah easy easy peasy all right uh I'll take a few more uh what does the

American alpha think about the Pena power BC you mean the power of Giuliana Pena The vicious power of the woman who currently, I don't know if you know the statistic, BC, but one of my colleagues likes to bring this up all the time. Julianna Pena right now does not have a win

over a currently employed UFC fighter, not one. That would make a lot of sense. She also has been fought in two years since getting 50 to 40 thirded and is out here talking, yeah, but Amanda didn't beat me. or she didn't knock me out it's like oh boy um and i you know i haven't anything against pain you i love like how like look look it was a perfect storm for her upset amanda the first time but she had to be who she was in that fight take the punishment and keep going for it was inspiring but no god i mean she didn't earn it the first she had she didn't earn a title shot the first time she fought amanda now it's won

after two years do i believe in her power you know she can punch a little bit i think she still got huge technical gaps and Amanda was able to easily expose that in the rematch. I hope that's something she's been working on coming into this. But, you know, Pennington is as sturdy as they come and has only been stopped once in her UFC run by the greatest of all time in round five Amanda Nunes. So, yeah, I don't, I don't think it's her power that will dictate this fight as much as the combination of her aggression, chin, and what she can potentially do on the ground, obviously to try to, you know, win a decision here against Pennington.

But, you know, I don't even, I mean, that fight is very close odds-wise, and I think it should be because at least Pennington's been, it's not like Pennington's been crazy active. She's fought once per year for the last three years, too. Yeah, I don't really like this fight at all in the co-main event, Mike, but thanks for having, man. Just a spoiler alert. I have a bet on Giuliana Pena and I hate it, hate it so much, but I have to do it. She's plus 140, man.

Yeah, you got to take that. You got to take all the betting values on Payne. Like for our tapology picks Casey and probably pick Pennington. But for watch party and entertainment purposes, there's a chance pain just eeks out a split decision here. This is possible. Sports betting has destroyed this sport. Destroyed it. Destroyed it.

Way worse than grooming ever did, right? Yeah. Did it do? Need to know. Yeah. What was the last time we had two title fights with two undeserving contenders? Wow. Oh, boy.

Eish. Yeesh. Wouldn't you say both these title fights, the contenders aren't really the guys or women who should be getting it, but it's still fun. But every single one of, unfortunately, Round Trees wins in a row, the five, you can aggressively pick apart. because, you know, four of those guys, like, immediately left the company as soon as he beat them. So it's like, it's just one of those situations. And again, it takes nothing away from Roundtree's great personal story. And the puncher's chance that he absolutely brings.

I mean, the odds makers are respecting him. And I respect that because he can win this championship. But yes, these are aggressively undeserving title challengers. And Dana, I think you know that because when Kevin I only on his podcast at Dana, on on Tuesday. And to his credit, like, kind of pushed the idea of like, why did you book that Ankolaev fight against a guy coming off of two stoppage losses when Ancolaev is ranked number two, and we got to pull the number eight guy for this? And like, do I expect Dana to go, because we don't really love Ancolaev, he's kind of boring, and because we think it'll be

more entertaining to put Roundtree in. He's not going to say that, but he didn't say anything. He was like, yeah, I don't know if the timing really matched up the way you said it did. Yeah, you know, I don't really remember. I'm not sure I was a part of that. Like, you know, it's just like a lot of deflect, deflect, but this does feel like a low moment in that way, but like we established, there are bangers on this card that I do want to see.

You know what? Instead of being disrespectful and calling it a glorified fight night card, it's a quarterly Fox card. Those used to be pretty badass. Those were pay-per-view esque, right? It's one of them. You've seen a Fox 2 level. I like

it. On paper, like on paper, is this like the fifth best pay-per-view card of the year? Fourth or fifth? There's been some shit, dude. Like, there's been some shitty pay-reviews. 306 on paper was not good.

This is, to me, I think this card's better. 2.97. 301? 301, yeah. For name value. But I knew the flights would be better. I had, way more fun watching 301 than I had watching 297 or 302 except for the main event of 302

302 302 I got a slog. What was 297? How do you remember these? That was Jim. That was Strickland DDP. That fight was good. But the rest of that card was rough. It was a rough.

Oh yeah. That was Raquel Pennington versus Myra Bueno Silva. I remember that fight. He sure did. Sure do. All right. Yeah. Yeah.

Cool. That was a tough one. 298 was good 299 was awesome 300 300 300 301 was what it was because we had a sacrifice Pereira hill for 300 302 was bad but the main event was really good so it saved it 303 was decent we got the the big ending at the end and we have some super in between cards like the a bc card in abu dhabi or did i just make that up or was that saudi i'm that was august yeah that was Abu Dhabi, yeah. We had a Saudi card too.

That was the... There was a UK card that may have been decent too unless I... 304. That was the Blah Mohamed, Leon Edwards card. Dana hated that card. I thought that was pretty decent. I thought 305 was really good.

That was the DDP Izzy card. Sure. In 306. Yeah. It was more about the experience than the fights. Just get us a 308. That card is so damn good. All right.

A couple more questions. Got time? Sure. All right. A couple more. What if I ask Casey a question? Have we ever done that on this show? We just do whatever we want here, so please.

Because Casey, I really respect what you did in taking the MMA fight and taking it seriously and giving and giving and receiving and live in, L-I-V-I-N. And then Crazy Man, who we love, Oscar Willis, did the same thing. So we are what nine days out from Oscar Willis, Ben the Bain Davis, BKFC. We've spent a lot of time talking about the awesome ridiculousness of the fight and the collective craziness of both individuals. But what does that fight in Spain actually look like, Casey? First of all, when I was told about it, I got very jealous. I was like, they didn't call me. They didn't call me.

I was a little hurt, but also like, I know, I, I, I'm a big bare knuckle guy. I dig it. So what does it look like, though? I have sparred of Oscar. He has a, he likes to spam his overhand right, and it's heavy. It's heavy. So, yeah, it's just going to, I think he's going to be, yeah, a little good hockey fight. They're just going to grab each other back of the head and just start throwing overhand.

That's what I'm hoping. I'm hoping. And I hope, but I'm hoping they do that for about 30 seconds. and then realize this is very tiring and I hope it's a really ugly, whatever, six minutes of just really bad, exhausted, heavyweight MMA, but in lightweights. Yeah, that's what I'm hoping.

I'm hoping it's just horrible. I can't wait to see Ben just gas out incredibly. That's what I'm hoping for. Mike, two-part follow-up here as I run your show for you. One, did you catch the little tease in Casey's voice that he's considering fighting the winner, which was awesome? and two, what do you think will be in Oscar's bloodstream on fight night? Because he wouldn't answer that when I interviewed him.

It's a great question, BC. It could be anything. It's one of those things where nothing would surprise me. So you have that going for you. And it's just, oh, it's so great that this is happening in BKFC and it's happening out of the United States, which means he could have whatever the hell he wants in his system. And who knows? Maybe Baines got a little something, something cooking as well.

just never know with these two cats. I kid. But I love Casey just planting those seeds, much like Eileen Perez did. She called out Kayla Harrison after a rando win over like the 31st ranked women's bannamweight. I didn't even know there was 31 women's bandam weights in the world. But Eileen Perez is like, you know what?

No one wants to fight Kayla. I'll fight her. And now she could find her way into that fight. They will go back to that clip and there you go. Casey just planting seeds. He didn't do the Joaquin Buckley. No. He did the Eileen Perez. Respect. There it is. And we didn't have to see his ass.

It was a great deal for us. It was even better. Not yet. Not yet. Would you, if BKFC called you, Casey, would you do it? I thought, I thought, would you show my ass? No, would you? If they called, if they said, hey, Ben's, Ben twisted his ankle, he can't fight. We're going to push the fight back like three weeks.

we'd do it like first week in November. We want Oscar versus Casey. Would you do it? I would feel odd trying to murder a friend of mine, but yes. I love it. This is the clip.

Forget the Carla Sparza shine because I know that's what you're thinking clip-wise and I love that, but this is it. This is the breaking news. This is the one. This is the million views. Look at those fists

You want to cut a promo? You want to cut a promo on them? Let's set it up. Dave Feldman, pay attention. I've still, I've got the twerking in my mind, so that's, let me pan this camera down a bit. That's going to be you. Yeah, Oscar Willis, bend the bane. These knuckles, these knuckles.

I'm ready. I'm ready. This is the best. Wow. Wow. 155. Let's do it. I can do it.

I'm so excited right now. I don't even know if I want. I remember where it started. I might want like bare knuckle MMA or something, you know. Maybe just a great fight. I would like bare knuckle MMA. I would I would prefer bear knuckle MMA. Game bread.

Game bread. Game tall. Call them up. Call them up. Would you karate, maybe karate combat. Maybe president of Austin. Watson wants a little piece of this.

I don't know, Cardi Combat, but Game Bread. I like Game Bread. Okay. Let's go. Well, the karate combat, I can fight on the moon, too. That's kind of cool, so I don't know. You fight at President Awesome's mom's backyard. That's a possibility.

All right. Anything else? I don't know if we can get any better than that. Yeah. Hit the music. We're done. B.C., any final words for the people? I know, not at all, not a single one.

I've said a lot of words this week into a microphone. Wait, that's the wrong music. I forgot. SBC sinks, sinks away to take a nap. We say goodbye to you here on BTL tomorrow. Busy Derek. We've got a weigh-in show. 11 a.m. Eastern tomorrow to get you ready for UFC 307.

A preview show, 1 p.m. Eastern. And then Saturday, that's when all the match of happens. We got the People's Pre-Fight show. We got watch party at 9.45 p.m. Eastern. We got on to the next one on Sunday. Post-fight show, post-fight interviews, the whole nine. For Casey, for BC. His hands and arms, too.

I am Mike Eck. Back back next week to recap it all. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links, an MMAT fighting production on the Vox Media Network.