MMA Fighting - BTL | Alexander Volkanovski UFC 280 Main Event Backup, Holland vs. Wonderboy, UFC Vegas 62

Episode Date: October 13, 2022

UFC featherweight champion has revealed he is the backup fighter for the lightweight championship main event between Charles Oliveira and Islam Makhachev at UFC280 — much to the chagrin of Beneil Dariush.  On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel reacts to Volkanovski's claims he is the backup plan for the highly anticipated vacant title fight next weekend, and if Dariush should feel slighted if that's true. Additionally, topics include the UFC's return to action this Saturday with UFC Vegas 62, the stakes on the main event between Alexa Grasso and Viviane Araujo, Cub Swanson's move to bantamweight, Kevin Holland ending his short-lived retirement to face Stephen Thompson in the main event of December's UFC Orlando card, Tai Tuivasa vs. Sergei Pavlovich getting the co-main event slot, Uriah Hall boxing Le'Veon Bell on the Jake Paul vs. Anderson Silva undercard, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Alexander K. Lee and UFC lightweight Grant Dawson. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Grant Dawson: @dawsongrant20y1 Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster,

the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links.

hope everyone's having a fantastic week. It's good to be back on a fight week for the UFC. The countdown for UFC 280 is down to the single digits. We've had some interesting things happen over the last couple of weeks. We just found out that we have a main event for UFC 282. We reported back at August that the UFC is leaning towards the rematch between Erie Prahashka and Glover Tashira. We thought maybe John Jones could have been in the mix to kind of change up the plans,

but it is going down. UFC 282, so we have a main event for that. We've had a lot of other crazy things happen over the last couple of weeks. So I'm excited to discuss some of these topics right here on BTL. We're back to the original format. The competition is on.

And this week, Jedmishu's retirement remains. But luckily, we have a man from the MMA fighting staff who has stepped up to the plate, is ready to show the world, ready to prove all the doubters wrong. And while his record on this show may not be the most immaculate, the passion he brings to this program,

is always at a super high level. So let us say hello to the co-host of On to the next one of the ranking show. He's the Prince of Positivity from MMAFighting.com. Our best friend, Alexander Kaylee. Hello, AK. How are you? Oh, hi, everyone. Hi.

Thanks for having me back. I guess I am the new Jeddicus. I'm taking over with you retired. By the fault, I am the man of BTL. And let me say, I am confident not only will I win today's debate portion. But I think when me and this gentleman meet in a physical contest, I think we're actually going to fight each other later. If that's my understanding, I will, I will, I will be the victor there as well.

Well, what you guys didn't see is they had a pose down before the show started. And we might think a little bit differently about this. But making his BTL debut, one of these surging contenders in the UFC's lightweight division, a name that comes up an awful lot on onto the next one. I'm sure he'll be watching UFC 280 very closely for a couple of different reasons. He is Grant Dawson. The Prophet himself joins us. Grant, my man, how are you?

Great, man. Thank you so much for having me. Now, before we get into the debate portion, what is going on with you, Grant? Everybody comes on the matchmaking show. They keep matchmaking for you. Everyone wants to see you back in there fighting. What is going on here? Why don't we have anything booked?

Well, I was supposed to fight November 5th. and we were offered six different names, all six of which that I said yes to, and all six of which that are now booked with other people. So I'm not so sure what's going on. I'm not sure what's going to happen in the future, but it's not looking like I'm going to be able to fight again this year. So that's kind of a bummer, but that's the way it goes sometime.

Grant, call them out. Name names. Name names. We're not here to be professional. We're here to start. we're here to start petty feuds. Name, go ahead. Names or names.

I've been offered, I've been offered, Diego Faheda, Dan Hooker, who helped Gregor Gillespie, RDA, who is Demir Isma Gulov, and there was one more. I cannot remember who the last one was. But they just, wait, dates line up, not great.

didn't want to fight me whatever it was i have no opponent right now and it sucks because i've been in camp for the last eight weeks um my weight was was coming real low i'm dieted i'm hungry and it's it's not looking like any of that's going to pay off are we are we up for short notice opportunities if they arise man i the problem is is they wanted to move me to December but i get married november uh november 20th and uh i'm not going to take a week off for my wedding go to my wedding not eat cake and then go to fight in December. If it was late December, I could make it work, but the last card in December is the 17th of December.

My wedding's on the 20th. It's just not going to work, you know. So early January, it's looking more and more like that. All right. Well, congratulations on the upcoming nuptials. You can join the club. It'll be great. So let's get into this thing.

Normally we close off regulation on this program. with the upcoming fight cards, but today we're going to kick it off because after a weekend away, the UFC is back on Saturday, UFC Vegas 62. It's the go home show for UFC 280. There'll be a lot of promotional assets,

I'm sure, throughout that card, promoting the pay-per-view, but we have an interesting fight-night lineup. We have a main event with some stakes between Alexa Grasso and Viviani Arousho and AK, we're going to begin with you. How high are these stakes at 125? Because we have a champion currently

without a fight in Valentina Shofchenko, We have a big one next weekend between Caitlin Chukagin and Manon Fioro. How big is this fight in your eyes? How big are the stakes? I can't say it's like a massive fight, and it certainly weighs more heavily for one competitor than the other. I think it's very big for Lexa Grasso. I don't think that's a secret. I think the UFC really likes her.

I think from the day they brought her in, they saw her as someone that could be a contender. Originally at 1.15, of course, there was a lot of issues with making weight there and with some of the opponents. She's struggling against there. Now, I've at 125, 3 and 0 so far, has looked good, has put on entertaining fights, had finished her last fight. So she's just trending up and up and up and up. Especially in division, people are constantly looking for a fresh challenger for Valentina Shepchenko.

Now, I don't know what it will take for fans, media, you know, the bus who make these picks to sort of predict that Grasso has a chance. I think even if she earned the title fight, she'd be like a plus, oh, I'd be right out of the gate, 400, 500, 600 underdog. maybe I'm even being charitable, not because she's a bad fighter, just because of how great Valentina Shepchenko is. So Saturday, it's not only important that she gets a win against someone like Viviana Rujo, who's super tough,

but she has to look good. It can't kind of be like sort of a listless five-round decision. Like for those of us in the media, we might be impressed by that. But for fans, I think you really got to wow them. You really got to knock their socks off, even for officials in the UFC, the guys and guys and gals who make those decisions, they want to see an impressive, event performance. This is Grasso's first main event. This is Viviana Arrujo's first main event.

So I personally feel that at Grasso is legit. Like I said, the UFC is pretty invested in her. They've kind of obviously been tracking her since her Invicted days. She could be a big draw. You know, she could be a main event draw in Mexico. I'm sure that's, you know, that's a market. They're very, very invested in. So she's just got to win. So the fight itself, like on paper, it's a compelling fight, not actually a huge matchup for both fighters, But for Grasso, she's young enough. A loss isn't going to kill her chance of fighting for a title. And also given we don't know when Valentina, what her plans are,

she might not be defending the flyweight title in time soon. She might be chasing that Nunes fight. But either way, if you're Grasso, you want to put yourself in that position where you're one win away from maybe fighting for the title within the first half of 2023. I don't know. I might be overselling it. But definitely a big fight for Alexa Grasso. Grant, what do you think?

What are the stakes here in this main event? Yeah, man, with just a vision, like he said, they're always looking for new challengers for the champion. And I think both of these girls, I'm a fan of Viviana and I'm also a fan of Alexa Grasso. I think they're both really good fighters and they're very similar in styles, you know. I'm not really looking for takedowns. They're looking more to knock each other out. I think that Viviana is a little bit more of an explosive striker, whereas Alexa Grasso likes to set things up and it's more about, volume. I really like

this matchup as well. My issue is I think that there are still a few people ahead of both of these girls if they went. Now, if something spectacular happens, I do think that, you know, they could jump the line, but looking at the champion's last fight,

I personally that Shefchenko lost her last fight. If I'm the matchmaker, if it's not Amanda Nunez, it's a rematch with that girl because personally I thought that she lost that fight. If it's not either of those, then yes, I could see the winner of this getting the next shot. I think whoever wins is going to be a giant Caitlin Chukagian fan heading into next week,

because I feel like if Manifioro beats Caitlin, then she's going to get the shot no matter what. But co-made event, we have Cub Swanson dropping down to 135s fighting Jonathan Martinez. And at yesterday's Media Day, Swanson just turned it over to Danielle Argetta to answer his questions for him, which got a lot of people talking. So, Grant, I'm curious from a fighter's perspective, when you saw the clips or whatever of Cub Swanson just sitting at the Media Day Deus in silence while his training partner answered the questions,

what did you think of that? Did you think there was any maybe weight cut issues? Is this some gamesmanship? What was your reaction to it? No, man, this is 100%. Cub Swanson's been doing this since he was six years old and he wanted to mix it up a bit. I think he's watching a little bit too much pro wrestling

and wanted to make it a little bit different. Also, Cub isn't much of a talker, man. He doesn't really like, he's kind of a soft-spoken, not a brash, you know, Connor McGregor style. He likes to let his fists do the talking. So I liked it. I thought it was different. I thought it was cool.

It definitely got attention, and we're definitely talking about it right now. Are we talking about any other interviews that went on that day? No, because it was so interesting and so weird, you know, and that's probably one of his close. as friends and training partners, and it was probably just something to have fun. You know, I like it. I'm in it.

AK, what did you think? Did it concern you at all? I mean, you were at AEW last night, so I'm sure you're looking for some good pro wrestling style things to happen around the world because you certainly didn't get them last night at AEW, but did it concern you? Did you dig this?

What did you think? Yeah, I hope, whether it's a gimmick or not, I think it's something he should stick with. Not that he's ever had a problem on the mic. He's been pretty comfortable with media, certainly comfortable calling out media, which is fine. So I do think it was a little bit of a gimmick. And I hope it's what he sticks with.

I mean, you mentioned pro wrestling. It never hurts to have a mouthpiece. Dan Argrada. I like that he gave a little shine to Dan Arreira, a young up-and-coming guy. So it sort of served a dual purpose. And if he doesn't have to, you know, kind of answer the typical questions from us on the other side of the microphone,

more power to him, I guess, you know. Of course, props to people who are on site, of course, including John Morgan and our own Jose, youngs who are holding it down. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not saying the media should be ignored. But I think when you're a veteran like Cub and you've kind of paid your dues, you've, you've certainly done enough scrums, you've done enough interviews. I don't take it the wrong way. I don't take it as like he's above, you know, he was like being above the media. I hope it's not a serious issue with his weight cut. We do know, you know, those extreme weight

cuts can do all kinds of things to you. So I don't know if it did affect him in some other way, if, again, possibly affecting his speech. I mean, that we, that, that, that, That could be a possibility. But I really hope that's not the case. And yeah, if he was just having fun with it and, again, you know, finding a way to liven up whatever the 50th media day, he's probably done in his career, then, you know, good for him. But I did want to ask, while we have Grant here,

and I'm going to sort of volley back to him, I don't know if you remember, you know, when Cub was like, I feel like MMA media members should fight, like should have at least like three amateur, fights or something. Do you ever feel that way sometimes when you're dealing with us? Like, I wish these guys had a little bit of training or some in, in cage, in ring experience. Not at all. I think that's kind of stupid. I think that judges and I think that more so referees should have some type of fighting experience, man. But the issue is that people,

critiquing art is so much different and a completely different skill set than being an artist. You know what I mean? Like great artists don't usually make great critics towards art, you know, because that's not what they're there for. I think that the media is doing a fine job. Do I think there's some assholes in the media? Absolutely. Just like there's assholes in fighting and any other thing you're going to run into, you know. You do your job.

I'll do my job. And I think that that's what we should stick with, you know. I do think that referees should have some type of fight experience. And I'm leaning more towards judges. having some type of fight experience just because we're getting a lot of crazy decisions and some very questionable referee calls lately. And I think that comes from not being actually

in that position and knowing what's going on. I like that answer. Don't get me going down the cheating and grabbing the fence rabbit hole because don't start, Mike. For days. You know how I feel about that. But, AK, as interesting as those two fights are,

are either one of these fights the one you're looking forward to the most? Or is there something else in the card? I think a lot of people are pointing to the flyweight fight, but is there anything else that sticks out more than that? I mean, as a Canadian, I am just sort of, I kind of like that they gave Mish Sarkhanov this opening card spot. He's going back up to 205.

His move down to the middleweight didn't exactly work out. It wasn't particularly entertaining. I don't think he got the results that he wanted. He looked okay, but like, he also looked a little bit drained. He was a big, he's a big guy, Bish Sierkanov. So he does not have an easy fight going back to 205. I mean, Alonza Menefield has looked good lately. But again, if you're Misha, this is kind of your, I don't want to say last run, but he is a veteran.

He's been fighting for a bit. He's been in a lot of tough fights. He's taking a lot of damage in the cage. So as a Canadian, again, and he's a Toronto boy as well. I'm particularly keyed on that fight. I would love to see him get the main card off to a hot start with like a finish of Alonzo Mendefield and get his own career sort of back on track because it's been a rough go the last few years. But yeah, I'm interested to see how much, how much Misha has left. Super talented guy, amazing athlete. But the fight game is

tough, man. And some of these outings just haven't gone his way. So I really want to see how he matches up with Alonzo Meadowfield. Grant, what's yours? What's your go-to fight? If you can't watch either the two fights, the main or the co-main, what's the one fight? You're going to make sure that you have to watch on Saturday. Man, I know you're talking about not these fights, but I have to go with the comane and not because of Cubs, but because of Jonathan Martinez. And I don't think that people are giving him credit. He suffered a loss from Davy Grant. And I think that people are kind of writing him off after that. But I've met Jonathan Martinez. I know his coach is very well. I know his training partners very well. And that kid is an absolute savage. This is a great

stylistic matchup for both guys. Nobody's going to wrestle. Nobody's going to do jujitsu. They're going to come out there and they're going to try to bang. And I don't think they really see what's going to happen to Jonathan Martinez's career if he goes out and knocks out Cub Swanson. I think he rocketed rockets up through the division because of a big win over a veteran like Cub Swanson. And he's a friend of mine and I'm actually really excited to see this fight. He is the, I've deemed him the silence behind the violence, Jonathan Martinez, who is so calm and calculated and confident when he steps into the octagon. But if you put a microphone in front of his face, he's not the same way. But I think that's what we all love about Jonathan Martinez.

He's the guy. He's the guy that should be having people do interviews for him, not Cubs Cons. He's the one that should have somebody talk for him. Oh, man, that is, that is completely true. Of course, want to shine some light on Asker, Oscar, Oscar, Ibrahim, that fight's going to absolutely rule. So it should be fun. There'll be some fun cards, some fun fights, and we're going to be all fired up for 280 when it's all done. So it will, of course, have coverage of UFC Vegas 62 before,

during and after on Saturday. So stay tuned to M.A. fighting but let's talk an interesting storyline that has occurred for next weekend's pay-per-view the point for round one goes to it goes to grants for not dumping on the media as much as he probably could have so good for you that was nice i tried to bait him mike i tried to bait him yeah you're a baiter you're gonna get that click bait i tried to get that click bait i tried to get that click bait i tried to get that click bait gross okay well let's go again this a pg show apologize for you our youtube viewer It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

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Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move.

Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.ca. So let's get into this, and I'm curious to get grants to thoughts on this originally because he is in this division. But Alexander Volcanovsky, who is the UFC featherweight champion. He is M.A. fighting's pound for pound number one fighter. He is revealed that he will be the backup fighter for the main event for the vacant lightweight title next weekend, UFC 280 and Abu Dhabi, between Charles Olivera and Islam Makachev. Now, we had heard that Benil Daryush had begged to differ.

We'll discuss where he sits in all this in a moment, but Volkanovsky went on the MA hour yesterday. He said he's not playing any games. This isn't something he's just saying to bait or make headlines. He's the guy. So Grant, you are in this division. You're a guy who just rattled off a bunch of names of fighters that you could have been paired up with,

but they didn't happen. You're trying to climb this rankings, trying to climb this ladder like a lot of other guys in this division are trying to climb. So being in this division, you hoping to one day be in the spot sooner rather than later, what did you make of this reveal that the featherweight champion is the backup fighter for the main event?

Look, man, I think that champion... You know what I mean? We saw this with Max Holloway when he came up to fight Kabib. I think that if you're the champion of the lower division or the higher division and you can make the weight, I think you should get first pick. We're seeing a lot of guys becoming double champions. And not to mention that he's just a double...

I'm sorry, he's just a champion. He's the number one pound for pound ranked fighter in the world. He has not lost in years. I think that it definitely is justified that he jump over Benile Darius for this spot. If Binaldaryuch was in the spot, I think Alexander Volcanozky would jump up anyway and try to go after that belt. So the fact that he's ready to do it against either of these guys, I think that that's fair. I think that if you're the champ, you jump the line. A.K., what did you think?

Because to me, just having his name attached to this card doesn't hurt anybody. It just makes it a little more interesting. It makes the way-ins a little more interesting to see what could happen, Volcanowski getting ready. And I think the most interesting part of this is that after that Max Holloway fight, he said he was going to take a break, he's got some injuries, he know he's got some injuries, and he's cleared and ready to go just a couple of months later. potentially could find himself fighting for a world title for a second title on this card.

Obviously, we hope that doesn't happen, but him revealing this, him doubling down on it, what did you make of it all? It's just smart, man. I mean, we always talk about like how hard it is for some fighters to sort of stay relevant in between their fights and sort of stay in the public eye and stay in the headlines, frankly. And Volk has done a great job of it without being the kind of guy who has to do like outrageous stuff or act out of character.

Like he's staying in the headlines for his reasons. He's staying in the headlines because he's being discussed as a lightweight title challenger. I mean, that's amazing. I think an example you brought up on one of your morning shows recently, Mike, was like Mike Chandler. You know, Mike Chandler is great at doing interviews in between, doing things at shows that like, that we talk about when he's not fighting.

And again, some guys are really, really good at that at just being on the mic all the time. I don't think Volcanovsky wants to do that. So he's planting his seeds more strategically. I think by making himself the backup for this card, it's such a smart thing to do. Now, like everyone, I really want to see the Oliva-Mackenchev matchup. But to eat for the fact that, like, I think people would still be somewhat excited

if one of those guys fell out and Volcanovsky stepped in. There'd probably even be a portion of fans who'd be more excited, who love that sort of champ champ stuff, who love seeing a guy go for, you know, just rack up belts in as many divisions as they can. And he says, you know, he's said he's had like his eye on more than two belts, which, I mean, I don't know that's going to happen. But who knows this guy?

I don't think he could win the lightweight title either. And I could be wrong there. So great move on his part. Great strategic move. I feel very bad for Briniel Derriush. I mean, again, that's a guy who kind of what I'm talking about here is not always making headlines in between fights. It's not always like, you know, putting himself out there.

So he seemed to have at least this one thing where people saying he would be the backup, even though he's also fighting on the card. And in one fell swoop, Volcanovsky kind of took that away from. him. So that's a bit rough. But I love for Volkinovsky. There's no reason not to do it. The Esther is the Perth card come up in February. But hey, if you're him, you're probably looking at both cards. And again, February is a long ways away in the NBA world. So for him to plan that far head, obviously he wants to fight there. But so many other things can happen in between. He's got to go with what he has in hand now. Yeah, it's been, it's been interesting road, AK, for Derrush,

because one, he was confused by this whole thing. And there's a lot of people, who also believe, even to this day, nine days away from UFC 280, that it should have been him getting the title shot with Olivera, not Islam Makachef, but instead he's going to fight Matush Gamrod and that fight absolutely rules. So trying to put yourself in Dariusia's shoes right now, I, okay,

and I know you feel bad for the man. How are you feeling right now, not just because of the Svokanowski thing, but everything else has happened. Like, a lot of people have supported this guy felt like he should be getting the title. fight feels like his resume has warranted this. And now he's fighting a super tough dude in Matush Gamrod.

And now he's not even the backup when this fight was put on the card to be essentially kind of a backup to the main event. I can't hear you, AK. Oh, that's because I'm muted. I can't either. That's a lot of test for you. If you're Darius, I think you're at least, look, at least you have a fight. At least you have a fight in the car no matter what.

Whether you're the backup or not, yes, I'm sure he's, you know, that was his concern is would he have to step into the main event. But he has an even greater concern in that he has this guy, Gamrod, to worry about. So he can't primarily be worrying about, oh, am I going to fight Charles? Am I going to fight Islam? He's got a top 10 guy, a top 10 guy in the NBA fighting global rankings, which, by the way, Grant, you are part of it. Grant is part of it.

He is ranked in our top 15, just if anyone's wondering why we have the best rankings. It's because we include all the best names, including when Mr. Grant Dawson with us today. But, yes, we have Matish Gamrod at 8. and he could steal Darius's top five spots. So if you're Daryush, I mean, look, the Volcanovsky stepping up and sort of taking that just unilaterally, as far as we know, saying that yes, officially I am the backup. I'm sure it sucks. I'm sure it's not the news you want to hear, but he has a fight to worry about, a fight

that is not a walkover, a fight that if he wins it, you would hope, quote, unquote, guarantees him a title shot that we know there's really no such thing as a guarantee, especially in the UFC's lightweight division. But yeah, if I'm him, I'm not like totally, I'm not like, it's just a little distraction, but he's got a whole other much more important matter to deal with on the 22nd. What do you think, Grant? Do you think this is going to be a tough thing to overcome or do you think he's going to be cool with it and just move on and turn the page and focus on the task at hand, which is a very tough one?

Look, man, I train with Gamrot every single day for this fight. I was one of his main training partners. He's got his hands full. Darius has his hands full right now. And if he's worrying about anything other than Matauj Amrott, he's going to have a long night. There's a lot of if ands or butts with this title, this title fight.

Like, if somebody backs out and if Volcanovsky doesn't get the fight, may be the back. Like, don't worry about any of that. Because none of them are going to come true if you don't beat Gamrod that's right in front of you. And I'm telling you that Gamrod is hungrier, he's younger, he's one of those guys that's got a lot of momentum right now. And if he's looking past Gamrod at all, I'm telling you it's going to be an easy night for Gamron. So I think that he should kind of just put this on the back burner.

I think he should not really care. I know it's hard to say this because everybody in this sport will be a champion. I get that, myself included. But if you don't beat the guy in front of you, you don't really get those opportunities. So he really needs to focus on Gamrod and not worry about it. about who's getting what in a maybe situation. Now, for both of these guys, Grant, we talked about stakes for the Grasso-Arauzio fight.

What is the stake for the winner of this fight? Because if we lived in a world of meritocracy, you would think the winner will be at the top of the heat for title consideration to fight the winner of Olivera Mokachev. But as you know, we do not live in a meritocratic world. We have Chandler and Porier fighting in a couple of weeks. there's always the looming presence of Connor McGregor. What percentage would you give that the winner of this fight between Darius and Gamrod

will fight for the belt next? Man, the sad thing is I think that a win means something different for both men. I think that if Darius wins, I think that he's in line for the next belt, you know, or I'm sorry, the next shot. And he's put a lot of big wins together. He's got a lot of big names under his belt. and he's been scheduled to fight Islam Makashab more than once already. So that fight already has some grounds.

If he does be a really good grappler and Mattouch Gamrot, then he fights Charles. There's like a jiu-jitsu versus jiu-jitsu style there that makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, I feel like if Gamron does win this fight, which I believe he will win this fight, I think with only beating Armin, Arruchian, and Benil Daryush, I think it puts him line for a number one contender spot. Then he's fighting the winner of Dustin and Chandler or

if Gachi and Hafei El Fiziv happened, getting the winner of that. So in my opinion, if Darius wins, he gets a shot. When Gamrod wins, he gets one more big name and then a title shot. I love you just threw the when in there. Willy-nilly, well done. What a teammate you are. And then I bet. And then I bet. And then I bet. And then I bet. And then I bet. And then I bet. Grant, and then I bet you would gladly take a fight with Daryush coming off a loss to Garmorad. Is that right? I'd fight Darius. Yes, 100%.

Let's go. There you go. Write it up, A.K., write it up. Grant also calls up and Neil Daryush, those damn faders. Yes, I got them. Damn faders. AK, what do you think? Like, you are, we will be talking about this exact situation the day after this card.

We will probably be live on onto the next one after UFC 280. No matter who wins. Are we talking title fight next? Or what percentage you're giving that the winner fights for the title next? No, I agree with Grant that Gamrod, again, as awesome as he's been, well, I mean, KSW before that. And then he's great and great in the UFC so far. I don't know if the resume is quite there. Yes, he will take Darius's spot.

But as we've kind of been saying, like, Darius's spot is like right in right there in the top five where he's so clearly deserves a tell-a-shot. But it's just not seen, for whatever reason, it's not. seen as the number one contender. So if Gamrod beats him, he doesn't automatically become the number one contender because Daryush isn't. So it could change. It gets like if he like first round knockout, first round submission, if he just runs through Darius somehow, which again has not happened in a long time to B'Neil Daryush. It changes the math, certainly. It certainly puts him on a short list.

But I'd be really surprised if there was any sort of guarantee or any sort of like huge thrust to put Gammat in a title shot just based off a win over Dariu's. unless he manages to finish him. So, yeah, I don't know if the stakes are quite as high for him. And, but I mean, getting into that top five is, again, once you get there in the, at 155, it's huge. It's huge. It's getting past some of the guys who are, for lack of a bit of term, have kind of been, you know, rooting into their spot that as a tricky thing.

But again, like Daryush, he's not worrying about that right now. He's worrying about, you know, UFC 280. We will see how this all plays out. Like I said, we're nine days away and get ready. we're going to have some very fun stuff for you for UFC 280 announcement forthcoming. Stay tuned for that. We move on. Point for round two goes to it goes to the barking dog, but it actually goes to Alexander K. Lee.

It is one to one. So let's move ahead. What a sportsman. The dog is just loving the program right now. Dogs love BTL. Let's move ahead to December because over the last week and change, the UFC Orlando lineup has been. pretty much finalized, including the main event.

And wouldn't you know it, AK? Kevin Holland wasn't retired after all. He's fighting Wonderboy Thompson at 170 pounds. Now, I have to say, I've seen a good chunk of people who are excited about this fight, the dog included. And I've had a lot of people, even on heck of a morning, consider this a me main event. So what are your thoughts on the matchup, AK? And Holland's retirement coming to an end, very, very, very.

very, very quickly. The first thing I want to talk about is the retirement, because I just want to say there's a few people out there. And again, it's always bad to respond to trolls. I'm sure Grant knows about this. There's always going to be trolls, trolls of fighters, trolls in the media, trolls of anyone. If you're someone who works in sort of a public field,

that's really going to come at you. And it's always those one or two or handful of comments that get to you. But I was, I did see, Mike, and I don't know if you got any of this. Some people were saying, like, oh, I can't believe the media fell for Kevin Hollins, retirement. I can't believe they even reported on it or made posts about it. Like it was obviously fake. Like they should have looked into it. And it's like it's a story. It's a story. When a major fighter who I would say is ranked in some rankings of Walter 8 was certainly ranked in 185 and is a very, I would say is one of the more noteworthy UFC fighters in the roster right now

announced their retirement. Whether they're they're part of my language, bullshitting or not, we have to report on that. It would be like if a if an NFL pro bowler, not like like even a semi-famous NFL player did this public tweet where said, yep, I'm retiring. Yeah, you do a story on it. We look into it. We reach out to people. We reach out to managers. We reach out to the fighters.

We reach out to the UFC. We reach out to as many people as possible. But if you're not reporting when a fighter, again, a well-known fighter says they're retiring or really strongly hinting that they're not going to fight anymore, guess what? We're not doing our jobs. So anyway, so for all that drama, all that sort of annoying, is he retired? Is he not stuff? I could do without it.

Again, it has to be reported on. I was personally, was not super convinced that he wasn't going to fight again. He's what, 29 years old. He's in the prime's career. If he had made enough money not to fight ever again, I'd be so happy for him. But that didn't seem to be the case even with the, you know, rumors of his UFC 279 financial windfalls. So I like to match up with Wonderboy. I like what he kind of said, I think in an interview, he's like, I told people I'd come back of a wonderful, fantastic opportunity came up.

And what's more wonderful than Wonderboy? So a little corny, but a good way to sit kind of. explain away why he, quote, unquote, is coming back if he was even gone. And I like it for Wonder Boy, too, because I think it's a winnable matchup. I think Holland has good offensive wrestling, but I don't know if he can quite do kind of what Balal did. We'll see. We'll see.

Again, offensively strong. But we've also seen Stephen Thompson, man, just fool so many fighters who think they've got him figured out. And I don't know if Kevin Holland is a better fighter than some of the guys that Thompson has beaten in recent years. but I want to find out, and that's, you know, the whole point of any matchups. So decent main event for Orlando, for sure. I find it intriguing, but I don't know.

I'm not sure what the – I haven't gotten a feel for sort of the public reaction yet. Grant, what do you think about the matchup? And are you stunned that an MMA retirement didn't actually stick? Come on, man. In M&A retirements, I think they're jokes, you know. Like, it doesn't mean anything. it doesn't uh nothing happens nothing nothing changes when you say hey i'm done fighting you know i could say i'm done fight i've retired three times in my career just in my own head because i didn't want to

do this anymore and then the very next day i was like okay no that was stupid i'm going to keep doing this this is awesome you know another thing too is like uh that it's not like he's one of these old dogs you know stephen wonder boy thompson retiring right now would make way more sense than Kevin Holland retiring right now. I think Kevin's got a lot more fighting in him. I think he's got a lot more years with the company in him. And I don't think that a short notice, so to speak, fight. Cam's at Chimaio does anything to hurt his legacy or his career or whatever you want to call it. So, you know, I'm excited about the matchup. I really am. I think that Wonderboy has been not looking great lately, but against grapplers. Every time that we've seen him fight,

a good striker. He seems to do really well and he seems to still have that. His style seems to be, quote, unquote, ageless, you know? So I don't really think that Kevin Holland's going to come out here and try to grapple. I don't think he's going to try to take him down and grind him out like Bilal Muhammad did,

like Gilbert Burns did, you know, faint, faint, faint, faint, in on the shot. I don't think it's going to be like that. I think it's going to be a lot of, like, at-range fighting. I think that this is a striker's delight, if you would. I'm excited about it. I'm really happy that it's five rounds.

I think that benefits Kevin Holland actually over Wonderboy. So I'm excited about it. I can't wait for this fight. I think it's going to be a good one. Co-main event, Grant, we confirmed earlier this week. Tai Tuivasa is back. He's bouncing back around three months after that crazy war with Cyril Gahn fighting Sergey Pavlovich.

Now, I don't think anybody is complaining about this fight. It is a gray fight. But what's interesting about it is the timing of this because the UFC and announced earlier this week. Officially they're heading back to Australia in February. They're going to Perth. And this fight would have been a pretty good addition for that one, considering Ty Tuva's there.

So were you surprised this is added to the Orlando card? And what do you think of the matchmaking here between Tuivasa and Pavlovich? I mean, I wouldn't say I was surprised and really surprises me with, matchmaking right now. I'm sure they've got a bunch of, you know, Australian names that are going to be on that card. bunch of names we don't really know right now. So I think keeping it diverse, you know, just because you're going to a certain

that doesn't mean you want to flood the card with just big names too. And maybe it was a timing issue. Maybe I couldn't do it. Maybe, you know, there could have been 100 things of why he's not on that card. I do like this fight. Anytime somebody is fighting a Russian, I got to think that I got to think that he's going and have a rough nightman because those guys are really, really good, especially at the heavyweight level.

I'm not 100% sold on Thai Tiya Vasa right now. I think he's a very powerful fighter. I think that he's an exciting fighter, and I think he's a great character. I love his stick and everything that he does. I think he's a really cool guy when it comes to that. I'm just not sold on how good of a fighter he is. I feel like any time that he fights a big banger,

he can win those fights, but when he fights people that know how to stay behind good technique, I feel when he struggles. So I'm interested to see how this one goes, and I'm not exactly sure who's going to win, but if I had to gun to my head, I had to make a... I'm going to go with the other guy.

AK, your thoughts on the matchmaking here, the timing of it all, and Tuavasa bouncing right back before the end of the year to fight a surging contender coming off for a huge win. Yeah, anyone who... who's like listened to me, you talk about Tai Tuva's rise, know that I think he is legitimate heavyweight contender.

This is where, again, you know, someone like Grant who was trained and has fought and kind of like can really analyze technique where he and I differ because I'm in the media. I'm a fan. I'm just in the outside. The depth of my analysis is like, well, Tai Tai Tuivasa, he punched good.

And he punched. And let me tell us something lately. He punched real good. So that's, again, and that's how I look at it. So like, as I said heavyweight, that might not apply in every weight. division we should clarify but at heavyweight punch good could take you real far and uh i i feel like listen he got as far as that fight was cdil gone and man he had cil her bad in a fight where a lot of

people thought like he wouldn't touch him so after that loss if anything i was like even more convinced uh that he could someday you know fight for a title uh i was even more intrigued of his upside again he's he's in the prime of his career but i still feel like there's there's some gains to be made there. How much he wants to, you know, change his game, how much he, how much time he wants to dedicate to that. I don't know. That's certainly up in the air.

But I love that the group right back under the fire against a guy like Pavlovich, super hungry guy, another power puncher, a guy that's really, that's definitely like could take his spot, just like Ty did by beating Derek Lewis, getting a top five heavyweight spot. That spot is up for grabs. And Pavlovich is right there. I mean, the guy has one loss in the UFC. to friggin overream in his debut fight. There's no shame in that.

So it wouldn't surprise anyone if he went in there and just took out Ty. So, I mean, I'm leaning towards Ty just because I've seen more of him. I see this, I see that sort of grit, that next level grit, that attitude of a fighter that, like, I feel is unquantifiable. I'm not saying that's Pavlovich doesn't have that. But again, just from the outside looking in, this is like what we in the media are kind of so enchanted by is when we see that, that intangible quality. that we can't quite name, we can't quite put a finger on it. But I think we know and we see it. I certainly see it in Tai Tui Vasa.

But hey, we'll find out. I don't know because Pahlovich, I've also been really high in him for a while. I'm just leaning towards Tye. And I like seeing Tye continue to prove people wrong as well. Yeah. What's going to be interesting about that fight is if we get another weird finish where Pavlovich has Tye hurt and the referee stops it, how will people react to this one?

Because they did the same thing with Derek Lewis. It's almost like he didn't get the credit for the finish. because everyone loves Derek Lewis so much and they thought he got hosed by the referee, but then you go back and watch the replay and you're like, the dude went face first into the mat, there's no problem in actually stopping it and if it was any other heavyweight besides maybe

Derek Lewis or tied to Ivasa, maybe we're looking at things a little bit differently. But we will move on to round number four. The point for round three goes to, he punches hard and talk well, AK, two to one. Talk good. Talk good. You talk good. You talk good.

You punch good, you talk good. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won!

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And I guess he said during the press conference, he's no longer worrying about the football side of his life. Levion Bell, the longtime NFL running back, because they're going to be boxing each other, October 29, on the undercard of the Jake Paul versus Anderson Silva event in Glendale, Arizona. So Grant, you are a fan of the, of the fista cuffs. What did you think of this? Like, did you see this coming at all that your eye haul was going to retire from MMA?

And then a few months later, he's going to be booked in a boxing fight against Levyon Bell? Yeah, man, like this kind of seems to be where where UFC fighters that are kind of out of their prime not wanting to be done fighting are kind of going. You know, they still got to make money, they still got to provide for their families. And you never really lose the love for the sport, you know.

I'm sure some guys do, but in my experience, these guys, they don't lose the love for competing and the love for some type of combat sport, whether that be jujitsu wrestling. something other than MMA because MMA is so taxing on the body it's so hard to get ready for a fight and when you do good in MMA

you get to a level where you're never going to fight backwards Uriah Hall is never going to fight somebody that isn't on his level or above his level you know and so for him to step into a new sport he kind of gets a clean slate

he definitely has the advantage in these in these matchups I think I'm fighting a football player. But I like it, man. Any way a fighter can make money after being done in the UFC, you know, get to get that little drive and competitiveness out of them. I think it's a good thing, man.

I'm happy for him. I hope he's getting paid well. And I think that it's a big card for Anderson Silva's sake as well. I'm sure a lot of people are excited for that fight. And I think that it's going to be good for everybody. Someday I'm going to have to quit fighting, and I just hope that there's something kind of like this for me to do afterward to, you know, that competitive itch.

AK, what do you think of this, Uriahall versus Levyon Bell? I thought it was kind of cool when I saw it pop up. It was so, it felt a little random. I think a lot of us knew that there was a chance Uriah Hall would compete in some other form of martial arts, because I think he very specifically said in his retirement comments like MMA. I think MMA was said multiple times. So I'm like, okay, he's clearly leaving the door open for something. I don't know if I thought it would be so soon.

But on the other hand, he is, what, Dura is 38? He turned 38 this year. And the clock is ticking. He's still in an incredible shape. I mean, the guy has always been in amazing shape. His whole career has always been an intriguing fighter. You know, I know some of its fights, it can be hot and cold. Some of his fights are super exciting.

Some of his fights can be kind of, you know, technical, kind of, not actually the most crowd-pleasing affairs. But again, that's MMA. That's a whole other world. I am very intrigued to see how he does in boxing. If you're Levi-on-Bel, I mean, I got a really cool pick because this is a guy who's experienced. He has a name in the UFC. He's considerably older.

So, you know, you're hoping you have a speed, youth athleticism advantage, you know, that can take you a long way. But at the same time, it's also a guy who is known as a striker. Sure, he won't be throwing any spin kicks in there or head kicks, but you're Ryai has always had really good boxing. So to me, it feels like Livian Bell is in over his head, but him and his team must see something where they think, at the very least, he won't embarrass himself against Jariah Hall.

So this is the kind of freak show, like, boxing matchup I love. This card is genuinely intriguing and looks like, looks super fun on paper. I guess mileage may vary for people, especially also depending on the outcomes. I think there's a large contingent of MMA fans who, if Jake Paul just frigging, knocks Anderson Silva out in 45 seconds somehow, it will go down as like the worst event ever. But, you know, I'm in the media. I'm objective. I'm just kind of waiting to see how the how the how the how the how the how the how the tea leaves kind of form before I make any judgments.

But I love how it looks. And Grant, I do look forward to you someday getting into celebrity boxing or something. I think you and like Brian, you're a Wisconsin guy. So I assume you hate the bears. And I was thinking like you and like Brian Erlacker or something. I feel like I think you could take him. I mean, he's probably, he's probably bigger. But he's an older guy.

I don't think he has your fighting experience. I'd love to see you go eight rounds with Brian or a locker or something like that. You know, the crazy thing is it's like I'm kind of like the Ben Astor type. I'm a heavy grappler. So me transitioning over into boxing, I think these guys would actually have a lot better chance of beating me than some of these other guys. You're well-rounded. Man, I'm in it. You're well-rounded now.

You're well-rounded. You're a mixed martial artist, Grant. You're an amazing grappler. We all know that. But you mix the martial arts. Come on. You could do it. You don't like the mixing.

Yeah, let me add some knees and some elbows in there. No, no, we can't have that. No, you can't. Come on. No, this is strictly the gentleman's sport of boxing grant. You and Brian are a locker, I think, you've given up a lot of size. I think you could do it. Let's do it.

I'm in. AK, if you could box a celebrity and get paid a bunch of money, who would you box? Ryan Reynolds. You had the pick of the litter. Ryan Reynolds. Ryan Reynolds. Reynolds. I just don't like him. Oh, good one.

I mean, I just don't like him. He seems like a super nice guy. He seems like a super nice guy. All the interviews I've ever seen on him, everything I read about him, super nice guy. Fellow Canadian boy, maybe there's a little Canadian, Canadian jealousy. I acknowledge that. I admit it. I don't like his movies.

I just don't like his movies. And if I could, if me beating him in a fight would prevent another day. I hate the Deadpool movies. Go ahead. Go ahead. YouTube comments, guys in the comments, come at me. Come at me. I don't like the Deadpool movies. They're dumb and not

dumb in a fun way. I don't like them. So that would be the stakes. If I beat him, he's not allowed to make any more Deadpool movies. So there'd be a lot in the line. And that motivation would really push me over the top. There's no way I'd lose that fight. Grant, who would you fight? What celebrity? If you had the pick of the litter, who are you fighting? I fight. Any celebrity?

Yeah, it could be like a celebrity. It could be an athlete, a reality TV star, somebody outside of MMA and outside of, I guess, like boxing. Like, they were like, Grant, you get to pick any celebrity to fight. Who are you picking? Chris Hemsworth. Ooh, Thor.

Wow. Why? Why? Yeah. Why him? Because my wife thinks he's... I'm just, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Yeah, I would, I would pick it. I think, because he's got a huge name, he's a big guy. And I think he's Thor. I want to prove I'm worthy.

I love it. All right. Well, that was a fun way to end regulation. The point for round four goes to Grant the Thor Dominator Dawson. It is two to two. So that means we go to the knockout round. We have categories.

We're going to do this. This is how it works. We're going to ask one question to each of these individuals. they'll have 60 seconds to give their answer. And then once that is done, there will be a poll on M.Afighting.com's YouTube channel to be able to see it, and you get to vote on who you think won the matchup.

Is it A.K., or is it Grant the Thor Destroyer Dawson? So, AK, I'm going to let you choose. Do you want to go first, or do you want to open one of the magic boxes first and have Grant go first? Oh, Mike, I know it's been a while since I've done a proper one-on-one matchup, but you know I always go first. So bring it on.

Okay. So the theme of this, A.K. is buy or sell. Buy or sell. We have three categories. You could choose one, two, or three. Give me number three. Number three.

So, buy or sell, AK, Giuliana Pena recently said that she should be fighting Amanda Nunes in the trilogy fight next. Her next fight should be getting the opportunity to get that one back. she did pull off the huge upset but then she got thoroughly dominated

in the rematch. And we just found out Raquel Pennington is fighting Caitlin Vieira in January. So, by or sell, that Giuliana Pena's next fight should be against Amanda Nunes in the trilogy fight. One minute on the clock, go.

Should be. You know, I'll go by. I'll go by. It's not my favorite option, but some of the reasoning is there. I'm always torn when Juliana Pena comes out and makes some of these because I want to think I love how aggressive she is with pushing your career.

You have to be that way in the UFC. I don't know, people might not like it sometimes. People not like the way she expressed herself sometimes. But hey, it got her a title shot. It got her the UFC title. She won it. She beat Amanda Nunes Baren Square in that first fight. So congrats to her.

And then she was tough as hell in the second fight, even though a clear win for the lioness. But I like her reasoning too that Amanda Nunes kind of takes a lot of time off between fights. And Juliana gave her an immediate rematch. Now, Amanda Nunes had earned that, of course, of course, one of the most dominant, you know, the most dominant women's band to win champion we've ever seen. But at the same time, it's like, does that give her an excuse to now

take time off? I don't think so. I think some of Pena's things about like, oh, I'm the better fighter because she had to adapt is a bit silly. That's kind of how fighting works. Your phone, you should adapt. That makes you great. But I have no issue with her fighting Amanda Nunes sooner rather than later. All right. There's A.K.'s answer. We go over to Grant. Grant, you have two options to choose from. You can choose option one or option two. What would you like to go with?

Let's go number one. Ooh, interesting, because this just happens to be in your division. So recently, Justin Gachie did an interview with MMAFighting.com. And what he said was he just had successful nose surgery. He's coming back in 2023. And he believes that right now, as it stands, he is two or three wins away from getting back to a world title fight. So buy or sell, that Gaichie is two or three wins away from getting back to a UFC

lightweight title fight. One minute on the clock, your time starts now. I'm 100% in, man. Justin Gaichie has never fought anybody outside of the top 10 at the time, I believe. I don't think he's running from anybody. I think that he's one of those guys that anybody, anytime, anywhere, and he's never out of a fight, ever. I know he didn't have the greatest performance against Charles Olivera, which is very understandable because of how good Charles Oliver is. I think one, maybe two fights, he for sure could be back in the title contention. And let's not forget that every time that he has come off of a loss, he has come back not only better, but looking different. He's a lot more. He's doing more damage, and he's, he's doing more damage,

finishing guys that usually finished. I think that he's super dangerous. I think that he's those guys that could break through and be a world champion at any time. Not to mention, I just want to see the dude fight 24-7. He's one of the most exciting fighters in the UFC. I'm definitely down for him beating Fizzis, beating these guys, and getting the title shot. Now he has to do that first, and he has to do it impressively, which I think he will. All right, well, we'll see if that a Z fight happens. I know it was rumored for December 10th. Not the case. Not happening.

Justin's not going to be ready. He wants to fight next year. Maybe that's a fight that happens, but he's eyeing sort of the fights that happen at UFC 280, the loser of the title fight, the winner of the B'Neil Gamrodh fight, the winner of Porriy Chandler, so forth and so on. So all of those would be fun fights.

But I asked that, I put that question in there because when we posted that article, the amount of people who have just turned their backs on Justin Gache is just unbelievable. This is a guy that everybody was picking to beat Charles Olivera for the most part. And then he goes out, has Oliver badly hurt, has a great fight. It's even though the fight was stopped in the first round, still one of the most exciting

fights of the year. And everyone is like turned on Justin Gachie. He feels like he's washed or whatever was a quote I saw a bunch of times. Come on, people. You're all killing me. But now it's time to vote. You could vote. Is it going to be Grant Dawson?

Is it going to be AK? Who's going to get this one done? Programming alert. Tomorrow morning, 10 a.m. Eastern, another episode a heck of a morning. Live on the NBA fighting Twitter space. We'll have a preview show tomorrow for UFC Vegas 62. Not really sure what time that's going to happen, but it is going to happen. And then Saturday, People's Pre-Fight Show right before the event starts.

We'll post-fight show. We'll have on to the next one as well on Sunday. And then it's all points heading towards Abu Dhabi and UFC 280. And I cannot wait for that. So, Casey, on the ones and twos, how are we looking here? Do I have to stall anymore, or are we good? I think we're good. I think we have enough votes in.

I think we're good. All right. All right. Casey, who wins? Oh, boy. Your winner on today's Between the Links is with 61% of the votes, A.K. Lee. Wow. Okay, gets a ton.

I'll take it. A lot of Chris Hemsworth fans out there. A lot of Chris Hemsworth fans out there. I think that's where it got away. I thought you were a dunzo when you said the Deadpool line, but apparently this lot of... People know that Deadpool is trash, so... No, and also, listen, this is Grant's first time on the show. I do have an existing BTL fan base, and I really appreciate their support.

I actually, I will say Grant had me thrown off from the beginning, because when I was kind of joking, like name the names, the guys who he wanted to fight and those matchups didn't happen, I thought he wouldn't do it. And then as soon as he did it, I was like, oh, oh, it's that kind of, oh, we're playing prison rules now. Like, I was totally thrown off. So I forgot, this man is as intelligent and savvy on the microphone as he is on the mat. So my hat tip to Grant because I was honestly, I felt off the whole show from there.

I was on defense the whole time. Well, congratulations, A.K. Grant, I appreciate you jumping on. Admirable debut, you'll definitely be asked back. Any final words for the peeps? You want to show out social media, stuff like that? The floor is yours, my man. Yeah, just everybody tweet the UFC and tell them to get me a fight. So that's about it, man.

Thank you so much for having me. This was a lot of fun. Congratulations to Alex. Let's get some spar grounds in. Ooh, I like that. Oh, God. There we go. He called my bluff.

He called my bluff. There you go. Casey, you can hit the exit music. We are done. AK, congratulations on the victory. Maybe you can lure Jedmishu out of retirement, AK. He's washed. Washed.

Don't worry about him. Don't worry about him. Put this off, Casey. Clip it off, tag him, bait, bait, bait. So thank you, AK. Thank you, Grant, for jumping on. Thank you to Casey on the ones and twos. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn takes you home.

We'll see you back here once again next week. Between the Links, getting you ready for UFC 280. I am Mike Hack. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links. Congratulations, A.K. Lee. You beat Grant Dawson. Unbelievable.

It was a robbery, by the way. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.