MMA Fighting - BTL | Ankalaev Dethrones Pereira At UFC 313, Gaethje Wants Title Shot, UFC Vegas 104

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

There's a new UFC light heavyweight champion and his name is Magomed Ankalaev after defeating Alex Pereira via unanimous decision at UFC 313. What does the result mean for Ankalaev, Pereira, and for the UFC, as well as its light heavyweight division. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel reacts to Ankalaev's title win, the impact on the promotion, and if an immediate rematch is a certainty. Additionally, they'll discuss Justin Gaethje's win over Rafael Fiziev in the co-main event, wanting a lightweight title fight against Islam Makhachev next, Jalin Turner announcing his retirement from the sport after his first-round submission loss to Ignacio Bahamondes, Saturday's UFC Vegas 104 fight card and if it's the worst event the company has put on in years, and much more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew.  Follow Mike Heck: @m_heckjr Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Live from M.MA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL.

Happy Thursday to us all. Hope you're doing well out there in Internet viewership land. We have a lot to talk about, ladies and gentlemen, the of the fallout of UFC 313. We had some big fights confirmed and announced yesterday, including a surprising resigning and return of a longtime fighter who hasn't been with the company in quite some time. We'll react to that and discuss everything else going on

in the combat sports world. But this week is going to be much like last week where we turned the programming over to all of you guys. You ask the questions. We'll do our very best to provide answers. And joining me to do exactly that is Mr. No Gray area himself, the climber of the MMA landscape and media space, the one and only Jedbushu.

There he is. Hi, buddy. Hey, man. How you live in? Sorry, living. Oh, he's back. There was just a gray blob on the screen. It appears we've solved that.

Hopefully that's going to stay true. but knock on wood kids I think we're going to have to knock on all the wood right now but you know what before we get to the peepshed let's talk about what we confirmed and found out last night along with an official UFC announcement UFC is returning officially to Des Moines, Iowa for the first time in two and a half decades

they're visiting the great state of Iowa The main event is finally confirmed. I know it was reported ahead of time, but it was not done. Again, the golden rule, we're not going to report things unless they are done, done on both sides. Corey Sanhagen versus Davis and Figurato, we also found out that the rumored about between Bo Nickel and your favorite middleweight, headier to hitter, FCA, Renier to Ritter. That is set on that card. And we also found out, and this threw people off guard. we found it a couple of weeks ago that Mason Jones,

who had a short stint with the UFC, went back to Cage Warriors, found some success, that he re-signed with the company. There was a straight signing. He is fighting on this card, and he's fighting Jeremy freaking Stevens? Holy shit. I didn't see this one coming from a mile away,

but Jeremy Stevens back in the ultimate fighting championship, Jedmishu. So we have these three fights, your thoughts, your reaction, especially the Jeremy Stevens. one. Jeremy Stevens one's real weird, right? Like, shout out to anybody who gets an ought no point for that one.

You get a full point. There's not a human being alive who was like, you know what, Jeremy Stevens, BKFC Jeremy Stevens versus Cage Warriors Mason Jones. That's the fight that's coming up next. So that was just a super weird one, especially sort of giving where Jeremy Stevens is in his career. How old is he? Is he 40?

I'm going to look this up right now. 38. But as made the rounds on MMA Twitter when this was announced, won one fight in his last 10 inside the UFC at this point in MMA. And so just sort of a weird dude to bring back despite the fact that generally well liked, obviously has the short BKFC run right there, the two fights I think that we happened in boxing. and BKFC, however, they ended up running that. So, you know, not awful to bring him back.

Definitely a little weird. Just unclear on why exactly. Maybe you have a little more information on that. Main event's great. That's just no bones about it. That's a sick-ass main event. I know it had been rumored. Nice for it to be real.

You know, I would have really liked to see Davis and Figuero take on Josealdo, but this is a fine consolation prize. Co-main event, I have. my, it's like the least good matchup I think that you could make with RDR right now, but it's fine. Bo Neckle's probably going to win and I guess they can start advancing him up the middleweight rankings by having him beat a dude that most people that are UFC fans don't really know. But like that's my only quibble.

I just think the co-main event is a very weird one. Everything else, it is odd, but the main event's great. So sure, good on you, Des Moines. and you get something that's pretty tasty. Yeah, so Jeremy Stevens gets to fight in his birth city of Des Moines, Iowa. It has been a super weird MMA run for Jeremy Stevens. He had three straight wins, Gilder Melendez, Dooh-Choi, and the brutal finish of Josh Emmett in February of 2018.

Following that, nice little stretch, stopped by Jose Aldo, loses to Zabit Magavad Sharapov, has the super weird no contest with Yahir Rodriguez. Then he loses to Yair in Boston in October of 2019, gets brutally battered by Calvin Cater. I mean, this was just, that elbow was so friggin nasty. Matush Gamrott submits him, and then he's out. And he goes to the Professional Fighters League in 2022,

loses to Clay Collard, wins a controversial splitty against Miles Price, gets subbed real quick by Nathan Schult. Then he has a draw with Jose Aldo in Gamebred Boxing 4. Loses to Chris Avila at Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz after Chris Avila missed weight. And then he goes over to BKFC, stops Jimmy Rivera, beats Bobby Taylor, stops Eddie Alvarez. It was on a nice little run. Seemed like BKFC, who they have Mike Perry. They have, when they put big events on, they seem to do very well.

And Jeremy Stevens was sort of becoming, like, it was like his comeback. He was his emergence back into the combat space where he was winning fights. He was doing it impressively. He was fun as hell to watch. He was getting some traction. And then he goes back to the UFC. I honestly am stunned by this. And I have no insight to this.

I don't, I don't expect the UFC is paying him like six figures to show here. So is he, do you feel like this is just a gamble on himself? Like he just didn't think this opportunity would come. And the UFC was like, hey, we're going to Des Moines. Jeremy Stevens got a little bit of buzz going on. Let's try to get him back against Mason Jones. I mean, first, let me apologize for everything that's going in on my side. I don't know what to tell you, my internet is saying that it's good.

It's saying I've got 250 and 250 right now. That does not appear to be the case based on everything that's happening. But I don't know. My internet's saying it's good. So again, knock on wood, hope this gets better. But I'm sorry, comment section. Two, I think the most logical explanation, the thing that makes the most sense to me is that they are going to Des Moines. Like, that is where Jeremy Stevens is from.

And that this is a, hey, why don't you retire? Like, right? Like, why don't you retire from MMA? You know, you can still go do the BKFC thing. They obviously have a very good relationship with BKFC in general. And Jeremy Stevens appears to really sort of be well suited to that. But let's do like a real retirement thing. And you will come and you will have your flowers and you'll get to gin up a little bit of support amongst the crowd

because it's our first time in Des Moines and forever. And there just aren't that many fighters from the region. you can come, we can give you like a full-throated send-off as you move on to the final stage of your career, knocking dudes out and bare knuckles. So that would be my guess, right? Like I don't know if that's actually how it's going to end up shaking out. But if I'm Jeremy Stevens, it feels like absolutely the way to go out. I mean, we've heard Dustin Porreux talk about how important it is to retire this year when the UFC goes back to New Orleans. Like I want to bring the UFC back to Louisiana back to New Orleans and that's going to be my retirement fight.

I don't see why Jeremy Stevens would feel any different as far as in May career, and particularly he can still do other things, boxing, bare knuckle, etc. So I think this just sort of makes sense for all parties involved, if that's what it is. If this is actually, Jeremy's just back and in the fold, weird as hell and I don't get it whatsoever. But if this is a one-time thing because, you know, both hands wash the other, yeah, makes sense. Seems like a good idea. Yeah, I didn't really think about it like that. let's just go in there and have one last MMA fight and then call it an MMA career and then go back to BKFC or go elsewhere. Go to what's BKB.

I think they rename that or read the Dada 5,000 company, bare-knuckle organization that is going to be on Vice TV. So they get a little TV deal coming up soon, which is pretty damn cool. So, I mean, there's there's got to be, there's definitely going to be some. interest in him, especially in the bare-knuckle boxing world. But let's just say right now, Jeremy Steve, let's say Jeremy Stevens, Mason Jones, the betting odds come out right now, and it's a coin flip. It's like minus 105 on each side. Who wins?

Like, who are you putting your money on? I mean, probably Mason Jones because he has won meaningful fights in the past decade. Like, I mean, Jeremy Stevens has the success in BKFC or whatever, but like, like I said, he's one in nine is past 10 in the octagon the win or i'm not in the octagon counting pfl the win is a splitty over miles price right like not exactly something to really stand up and take notice of his last like meaningful good win is josh emitt in 2018 2018 that's seven years ago like that's that's not recent whatsoever and so even though mason jones has you know been doing the cage warriors thing And that's certainly not the same level as staying competing in the UFC all that time.

Like better wins. His losses are, you know, also two really good dudes in Ludovic Klein, Mike Davis. I'm just going to assume that as the younger man who has tread left on the tires, he will succeed. But maybe the Des Moines crowd gets Jeremy Stevens up, you know, little heathen goes out there, throws bombs and gets it done. It's hard against the guy he's never been knocked out. But like, you know, Jeremy Stevens hits are hard. So live. It's not that he can't win this fight, which probably makes it a good matchup, right?

Like this is a winnable fight for him to end his career on. Again, assuming that's what we're doing here. And if we're not doing that, I do not know why we're not doing that. It's the most obvious choice for all parties. I agree. And you may be right about this. So we shall see. But if you're Mason Jones, yeah, you want to be back in the UFC.

But just tackle the man. tackle this dude to the ground, just take out all error. And you probably win this way. You probably finish Jeremy Stevens and we'll see. Maybe Jeremy Stevens has a big moment. Who knows?

Maybe 2026 predictions. We're talking Jeremy Stevens fighting for the lightweight title. Who the hell knows in this day and age and with this wacky time in our sport and in the UFC? But that is UFC Des Moines. Let's go to the peeps.

Following this news, FC 313, et cetera. And there he is. No sleeves. Casey is ready to friggin go. Mike, do you know the last time the UFC was in Iowa? 25 years ago. 2020.

They've never been to Des Moines. Do you know the number of the event? I'm not going to ask you if you know who fought. Just do you know the number of the event? 76. Fight night. 66. guys it was 2000 there were fight nights in 2000 it was ufc 26 oh jesus christ it was like your paper

view you guys said it like 25 years ago 70 70 was like in the oh like oh 7 or something there's 26 thanks it was main evented by it was cedar rapids Kevin randleman one of unanimous decision over pedro hiso to defend the heavyweight title and all Also, Pat Militich defended his welterweight championship, though at the time I believe it was called Bantamweight, or maybe lightweight. I think it was called lightweight at the time, actually, against John Alessio with an arm bar. Matt Hughes fought on the same card because this was in Iowa,

so you just had all the Militich dudes. You had Jens Paul or Matt Hughes, Militich running amok. That's so weird. Hey, remember how, you know, sometimes you get the questions on the shows, was like, what would you nickname this card? Do you want to know the nickname of UFC 26? I mean, I'm looking at it, so I can't answer this. But it's a great one.

It's like, it's pretty terrific. No, it's so much better. Live from Cedar Rapids, Iowa. By the way, no Joe Rogan on the broadcast. It's Mike Goldberg and Jeff Blatnick. UFC 26 Ultimate Ultimate. UFC 26 Ultimate Field of Dreams. it's so awesome that is so friggin funny and awesome and cool

here's the best part of all of this uh i've definitely seen this because i went back and watched all the early u sce events i did i obviously was not following this live at the time but i don't have any recollection of this but wikipedia tells me um that in just a terrific boutetti and alex and drudge uh do you know i mean mike you're probably looking at this, Casey, you will never guess how this bout ended. It's by disqualification. Would you like to know why? Disqualification.

Kicking with shoes. This was back when you were allowed to wear shoes, but you couldn't kick with them. So if you were a wrestler, you could wear your wrestling shoes, but you could not use them to combat people with. God, early UFC was a wild time. Look at that fight poster. This is unreal. Kicking shoes is the best DQ win of all time.

That's so awesome. I'm sending you the poster right now, Casey for UFC 26, also the field of dreams. I wish we could have like a modern post press conference of Dana, but on the results of this card. Like Dana, no, there's a DQ. What do you feel about this situation? I just like, oh.

I just love that like early UFC was just, it was functionally a big regional promotion, right? Like this was, 26 was their second trip to Cedar Rapids because their first one was like a year and a half earlier. Because all the militage dudes are from Iowa. And it was just like, yeah, we'll just go there because the guys we have who are champions in fighting, they're here and they can genoa population to contribute. Shoney Shoney Carter Shoney Carter Ian Freeman fighting in Iowa

is certainly something Jen's Pulver Matt Hughes I mean just Militage All the stars All the names How much were the

Paperviews back then This is back then You had to pick up a telephone And call the Your pay-per-view operator or whatever Probably like 40 bucks 40 that much

Probably my recollection is that pay-per-views were expensive for anything but like I don't know maybe it was like 29 25 bucks because it's like maybe it's like 2040 bucks would be like 300 dollars of today's money so but yeah this was awesome I'm super happy that we're going back to Iowa for literally the first time in 20 years it's just the absolute best like hey we're going to go in back to back years not even back to back

years. Within 11 months, they went to Iowa twice and it was like, now we're good. Never coming back here. But the wild part, though, I'm looking at the poster for the event. It's actually kind of better than more original than most UFC posters right now. It's actually something more unique to it. Like this one, this one actually is the same core concept. They just don't have Photoshop to like, well, no, but even the way they have to like, they're laying the text out. Their text is like laid out differently. you know, it's got live, you know, it was just kind of, and it's on a Friday. It was on a Friday, dude. Oh, was it?

Yeah. It was a Friday card. Huh. Look at that. SEG, though, old U.S. I mean, this is pre-ZUFA. It's the best. Yes.

Oh, UFC 26 was the fourth straight UFC event to have never received a home video or DVD release in the U.S. Wow. So you need to do a watch party. They didn't even put the thing out in Blockbuster for you to go to. UFC 26 watch party? I think we got to do it. Oh, man, in 21, the first trip to Iowa marked significant rule changes due to the Council of the Mixed Martial Arts Commission. Pre-lim bouts were now two five-minute rounds.

Main card bouts were three five-minute rounds. And that's when championship bouts became five-fives. UFC 21 was the first UFC event to adopt the 10-point must system. Man, that's history in Iowa. That's why they're going back. Okay. 25 years, time to make a trip. We haven't been to Chicago in a decade, but you can go to Iowa this year.

What the hell is the UFC doing? Got that, got that Iowa. Iowa tourism money. Iowa tourism money. Yeah, maybe. They must be. I mean, I guess, but like 2019 was like, team was last time they went to Chicago, which is the third biggest market in the country.

And there are two current champions with ties to it. It's insane. They skipped over Tachi. They skipped over Tachi. Yeah. Yeah, no Tachi. No Tachie. They skipped over Tachi.

Oh, my God. Also true. Tachie, just catching in the teeth. Yeah. I need to make, make Jose ask, ask Dana every time about Tachi. That's all he has to do. It would be so easy to just do any card in Tachy. Anything.

You just do an Apex card not in the Apex. Just do it at Atec. Yeah. Do the Josh Emmett-Lerone Murphy card at Tachi. That's so much cool. You owe them. You owe them. No, no.

If you're going to Tachi, I want you to try, and I want it to be a callback to WBC functionally and all the lighterweight classes. You don't put a freaking middleweight contest in Tachi. 145 and below are the only weights we're putting on the Tachi card. Who are the only? So Otto, Cubby, who else is left in WC? I don't think. Dom just retired.

Because I'm retired. Don't retired. Honey Yai is in the UFC anymore. It's not in the UFC anymore. I mean, that's got to be it. It's just nobody else that is remotely in the neighborhood of that. so yeah i can't do it now before it's too late yeah for sure and that's actually that's a good fight technically don't seroni technically don't seroni is coming back well yeah maybe i don't believe that

when i see it yeah that's that like happened to the gfl hasn't since then yeah like yeah don't's und retiring and then nothing has come what is it what is being the bull even mean he's got to fast all the drug tests no he doesn't the UFC is in charge of their own drug testing they're fine do it it's cool whatever yeah but he's not Brock it's not Brock Leser they're trying to sneak in there is it Don Serroney and Dana didn't want to fight

they're trying to sneak in anyone who gives like who truly gives them there's nothing they got rid of an independent testing situation to bring in a homemade one it gets it's a joke who cares and this is not me criticizing that's how it

should be handled. But like, come on. I was at the gym the other day and Victor Henry and Taco were training. And the UFC drug testing guy was there. And he sat there for two hours waiting for practice then. Man, God. I love this job. I love this job so much.

I wouldn't trade this job for anything in the world. If I could pick another job other than this, it would be being a drug test officer for a fictional company. Like that is the most fake-ass job in the world. Like, yeah, I'll just sit here. You were contributing stone nothing and getting paid, I assume a decent salary for it. Like, what an

incredible grift of like, yeah, I'm keeping the sports safe. No, you're not. Nobody cares. This is nonsense. All he's doing is just taking the cup back to the lab for the scientists to examine it. Scientists.

I promise you, the scientist, spend eight of the 10 hours of their workday just like playing candy crush and doing nothing because their job is fake because it's a nonsense thing that they've grifted millions of dollars out of this company for. I got an immense amount of respect for the people who have done this because I hope one day to be crafty enough to get paid for a nonsense job what I'm assuming they are making. Hey, maybe you can work for GFL. Oh.

That's not a real company, so no. The check's got to clear for me to work somewhere. Fair enough. All right. What are the people talking about? I'm sure we're going down memory lane and we're having my favorite moments from UFC 26 right now. All right. From stupid.

Our favorite moments. Slito. Slito. BSD O and two in his last two moves up. two spots in the UFC lightweight ranking. Tell me that's actually a thing that happened. That's incredible if it is. He sure did.

I guess Jaylen Turner dropped out. Yeah, he's out. Why did he move up a second one though? Was Bobby Green right? Was Bobby Green still right? He must have been. But that still doesn't make sense because there's only one. Okay, no, it does.

It does because BSD was 15. Two guys left. the bottom two guys are out and they bump two guys up. No, but why is there only one new addition to the rankings if two guys are out? The only not ranked previously says Ignacio Bajmondez. I don't think two guys dropped out. Why didn't he have the not ranked tag next to him? I don't know.

Unless that's just a mistake. Could be. Assuming that this is correct, which I'm assuming you are, then yeah it makes sense right like just two dudes ahead of him dropped lower and that's how that will go but bSD should probably win a fight soon that would be helpful for him yeah sure we don't follow the UFC rankings anyways they're they're the only rankings that matter thank you thank you all right thank you selido uh super chat for the record the USC rankings do have magua and ankle i have above Alex Pereira in their pound for pound rankings just throwing it out there Wow. Going it up there. I don't know if has our, has the ranking show dropped? Does it drop today?

I don't think it's up tomorrow. Drop in tomorrow. Oh, well, tune in for that conversation on the ranking show tomorrow. Yes. All right. And last, you want to super chat in? Can you spill the team? T.J. Swinity, now you are correct.

This is a ranking show discussion. Yeah. You got to pay if you want to hear my rankings. I'm not going to. Oh, my gosh. All right. RJ. Oops.

Thanks, Slito, by the way. RJ, it's not a robbery, but the M.MA equivalent of Seinfelds, not that there's anything wrong with that. Oh, that's wicked fun. That's pretty good. It's pretty good.

It's not a robbery. Yeah, is it's not a robbery, but the M.A. equivalent of Seinfeld, it's not that there's anything wrong with that. That's pretty frigging good, man. I don't think that. think that this is true, but it's definitely funny, right? I don't think that these are speaking to the same thing, but that's us quibbling about like things don't matter. This is just a funny

joke and I credit you for that, RJ. Maybe more accurate for that, the simple quote. I think the one we used a lot was it wasn't a bad fight, but I'm not going to go over to watch it. I feel like we said that a lot. That's much more correct as a one-to-one port over. Yeah. But this is much funnier. Yeah. Yeah. That or that, that, that, that, that was, that was certainly a fight that happened. That happened.

Yeah. I think Casey nailed it. I think the actual correct one is like, you know, not a great fight, not terrible. Or like, honestly, the actual, maybe the actual usage is for, again, hat tip to the upcoming rankings pod. Marad de Waller Shealy is really good. Boring as shit, but really good. There's nothing wrong with being really good. Just don't care to watch them at all.

When you can. Yeah, okay. Tune in to the rankings. We get on all these things. Winning is the most important thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Not there's anything wrong. You know.

Well done, RJ. I respect this a lot. Terrence Leverett. Oh, he has his theory on why they signed Jeremy Stevens. We were so off. Taryn Stevens wins and he gets Connor, UFC over BKFC. I don't hate it. I actually think that would be a good fight.

I don't think there's a, I think there's a zero percent chance that happens. Like, why would Connor take that fight? Why would Connor take that fight? Because he probably win. Isn't that the one winnable fight for Connor? I don't know. like Michael Chandler is winnable. Michael Chandler sucks.

So like you could beat Michael Chandler. This version of Connor. Come on. I don't think Jeremy Stevens is any more winnable than any of the other ones. Like if you want Connor to have a winnable fight. Chris Avila beat Jeremy Stevens. Not the same thing we're operating on. Also, Connor is super wild.

If you want Connor to have a winnable fight, you need to have him fight somebody who can't take a punch whatsoever. Like that's it because Connor is still. going to be dangerous in the first five minutes of a fight. So you just got to find a dude to get jawed and fall over. Or don't care whether Connor wins or not, because Connor is delusional and thinks he'll win every fight. And, but like I just, what's the benefit to him? Unless he is actively being like, I'm now not good at fighting, but I can win this one,

which requires a level of introspection that Connor McGregor does not possess. There's no, no incentive. He fought Donald Soroni. That's just a small step above Jeremy Stevens, I think, at this point in their careers. Yeah, but you could squint your eyes and pretend Donald Serrani was still good, or at least relevant, right? Jeremy Stevens has won one fight in seven years. You just don't mention that part. You just show the highlights.

You just show the RGA knockout. Legitimately, if you're Connor and or Stevens, I think you'd rather do this in BKFC than UFC anyway. Oh, of course, yeah. Or that's the UCC's They're squashing competition They're getting there Maybe it happens Maybe it's in the

Maybe it's a TKO boxing main event If Stevens wins I just don't think any of this is Going to happen Honestly I wouldn't rule anything I wouldn't rule anything out At this point I'm going to do this one out

And I'll eat the crow If I'm wrong Come Remember this parents We're talking about Jeremy Stevens today in the UFC, so I think anything's out there, to be honest. I mean, he has to, I mean, we can't really, he has to beat Mason Jones and he has to, like, kill him. And then he has to get on the mic and cut a terrific promo and look like an absolute superstar. You put him in Des Moines with his fans.

He knocks out Mason Jones, first guy to ever do it, gets on the mic and cut something good. Maybe wouldn't rule it out. I'm wrong now. I'm doing the exact opposite of an ought, no. This is on to any other one. We're not doing this. It's an odd. The more I wouldn't argue for it.

You can. It's an onto. You're doing an ontoe. Technically, I'll, the absolute opposite. Technically, I'll never be right until both men are no longer with us. But I'm confident in saying this won't happen and we can just circle back and you all can rub my nose in it. this fight gets booked.

What a moment. We're doing a reaction pot and everything. Flip it right here. You can. And I will raise it and be like, it'll be the happy Gilmore speech. I'm smart or I'm dumb. You're smart. I was wrong.

You were right. I'm ugly. You're attractive. Like, I'll just do all that for 10 minutes. But it ain't happening. What's it? I know you mentioned it before, but like, did the UFC outbibed? BKFC?

Is you going to pay Jeremy Stevens more? Because I don't really call any fighter going to BFC and taking less money. No effing chance. There's no chance. So Stevens is actually taking a pay catch just because maybe you just won't step

whatever. I mean, I don't know, did he sign a new contract? Was he still under? No, I guess because he went to the PFL so he must have signed like

he must not have had a UFC contract to the PFL. Yeah. I mean he's making what he made when he left. Like he might be making like 100, who knows? I will bet he was taking a marginal pay cut because again,

he wants to end his career in Des Moines and that's not his fighting career. He'll still do others, but he can end his MMA career by taking a pay cut. I bet Mike's right. I bet he's just making what he made on his last contract.

But I'm sure that is a pay cut from what BKFC will pay him or whatever, but not massive pay cut and he can make it and come and get to say goodbye. to the UFC in a way that feels completed. What's his lost streak right now in the UFC? In the UFC?

Several. It's a lot, but she lost like... One, two, three, four, five. He's winless in six fights. But does have a win over Josh Emmett. So there you go. Which was... Yeah, he got three performance bonuses in a row before the Jose Aldo fight.

Gilbert Melendez's Fight of the Night Performance bonus knocking out Doho Joy Performance bonus knocking out Josh Emmett That was a brutal knockout Josh Emmett won

Oh, it almost ended his career Yeah, broke his face In half, yeah Because the referee decided We're just gonna let Violent trains cream A big form right across the fat Yeah, that was

Yeah Yeah Yeah Jeremy Stevens Got a lot of shit for it And I get it Because he I don't

think I thought that he didn't deserve the shit for it and I always thought that people way over blue Connor McGregor's who the fuck is that guy line he was not telling lies when he was like I hit harder than this dude Connor knocks people out Connor TCO's people I kill him is like paraphrasing that like that is true and people just really wanted to gravitate towards Connor and so I did not think that that was great trash talking especially because I actually think Jeremy Stevens was 100% accurate. The timing was exceptional by Connor. The timing was good.

The timing is good. The joke isn't even good joke. Like, people just want to do it because of who Connor was at the time. But remember Jeremy Stevens was interrupted. He jumped into the conversation. Yeah. It was actually, it was, it got overused. That little, that little meme got overused.

Way overplayed. But also Jeremy Stevens was in fact true. Like Connor McGregor T. care of people. When he knocks them out, they die. They don't. By the way. So, yeah, Josh Emmett, tough scenes.

Well, then Josh, you did that to Casey's favorite featherweight, so it's fine. That's true. Way, way, way, way. Don't, first of all, don't say that. Don't say he's my favorite featherweight. Stop saying that. You drafted. I don't draft it.

Ryan Hall is my favorite featherweight. We all know that. Ryan Hall, gosh. You know what, fair. Fair point. I've said that. By the way, I, I just looked this up courtesy of M8fighting.com.

Terrific website, by the way. Disclosed payouts for UFC 249, which was back all these years ago when Florida would actually release the fighter salaries. And I know all of this is not completely accurate, but usually outside of like title fights and bigger names, some of those are off. Jeremy Stevens made the second lowest amount of any fighter on, oh no, I'm sorry, the third lowest amount of any fighter on the fight card. Jorgon de Castro made his debut on that card. He made 12,000. Charles Rosa made 24,000.

Coming in at third lowest on the card was Jeremy Stevens at $46,900 to get knocked up by Calvin Cater. We also have to take into effect. He had to forfeit some of his purse to cater for missing weight. that fight as well. So, sheater. Is Mason Jones the lightweight? Is this featherweight or lightweight? The Mason Jones fight?

This is a lightweight fight. Okay, so he's going up. He's going back up. He's not going to 45 anymore. Okay. Nope. Cool, cool. Yes, Michelle Waterson made $60,000

compared to Jeremy Stevens making 469 that night. Oh, well, that might explain why he has so many fights. Yeah, then. And Greg Hardy made $180,000. to fight at UFC 249. Just throwing that out there as well. Fugting crazy.

Dana White, yeah. Such a good scout. All right, thank you very much, Terrence. What else we got here? Oh, Super Chap from Slito. Slito. Did you see War Machine

Up Dark Side of the Cage? My favorite power was the end where they put up Jones McGregor pictures saying that they too were demonel domestic abusers. I watched. Just Jones and McGregor?

Geez. I mean, there was plenty of other humans to put up there. I watched almost the whole thing. War Machine is some kind of, I mean, he is just a true, real piece of shit, that guy. Just truly. One of the bigger ones that's ever been involved in the sport. Yeah. Like just a giant piece of shit.

And if you haven't see the episode, you will feel. Yeah. It's interesting, like, because you forget some of the details about, like, how he became, who he became. And then you hear from guys like Matt Serra and you hear from others. It was basically like saying, like, him meeting Phil Barone was sort of the downfall of his career. Also a huge piece of shit. Yeah, maybe the biggest, as Matt Sarah says in the episode, horrible dude. I think it's pretty obvious

and that's not the dude you want to follow. He did get some quick fame because of his time on the Ultimate Fighter and sort of being raw and emotional and real on that show and then everything that happened after that, they actually interviewed War Machine while he's in prison for this episode. So you get to hear him speak

and there he's just as big of a piece of shit now as he was back then. So I'll leave it at that. They interviewed him in prison. Check it out. This episode? Yeah. Oh, wow.

No, I haven't seen it yet. I really want to see it. Yeah, this truly is a dark side of the sport. So this truly is. Yeah. I made a choice. I'm just not keeping up with it. I think that it's the ones I've seen.

They're obviously well made and tell important stories. I live in this shit. I already know all the bad shit. Like, I just don't. Darkside is one of those things that I would, recommend to my friends who don't really know anything. Like, what's the worst thing that happened in M.A.? It's like, I get those,

or we have those kind of conversations fairly regularly. I'm like, let me tell you about a guy named Ramazan Karov. And so, like, I think they do important stuff, and that's sort of the content I would recommend. But I don't personally, I just don't need that. And like, I just have enough of it already. So I don't need that. I will say.

Pride ones are frigging awesome. War Machine probably just came along too early. Because like, that was back when we as a society gave a shit about things. Because War Machine is just the Tate brothers, but he came along a little too early. If he's, if War Machine was on the rise right now, he would probably be doing much better for himself instead of rotting in the jail cell he deserves. I hate that he said that, but yeah. But it's correct. I was thinking about it.

I didn't even want to put that out there. So we are clear, war machine is a huge piece of shit. Dana White also shook hands with the goddamn Tate brothers last week at a UFC sponsored event. Fuck them all. Not only shook hands, had a camera crew to make sure it was covered properly with even a nice boom mic. Get all the crisp audio. So, yeah. It's terrible.

But the dark side of the cage people do good work. They do good work. Good people too. They're nice. And dark, yes, dark side of the ring. If you're, uh, if you were ever a pro wrestling fan, cool. I either recommend you watch those. Jesus thing, I've seen a couple of those and I learned things like that.

To me, that's where dark side of the cage like makes sense. I just I don't, I know, I know the Im Freeman story. Like, I know these, I know all these stories pretty well because I've been in the space for 20 some odd years. Whereas, like, pro wrestling stuff I'm much more interested to learn. Like, oh, I didn't know. Like, when, uh, what was, was. Was the movie two years ago about the wrestling family that I don't know their names? Oh, uh, Page.

On the Von Erics. Yeah. Whatever that movie was called. I was fighting of the family. I thought that one. I wouldn't watch the dark side. After I watched that movie, because it was really fascinating, I wouldn't watch like the dark side and it was like learned about this shit.

And you realize the real story was actually more sad than the movie. It was way worse. It was way more. Oh, yeah. They actually, they had to make the movie happier because you would just been too depressed. I was so surprised I was like this movie is a bummer and somehow it's the

rainbow colored glasses of this story it is nuts but like to me that's really where dark side shines is to be like hey people who don't have any exposure can learn the dark side of the sport and MMA is a sport with a lot of dark corners in it

yeah they will not run out of content topics too yeah they're doing one on Ludwig Borga. He was he was in WWF in like the 90s. They brought him in as like

like one of the foreign dudes that's just got to like fight all the Americans and he was there for a year, and then he was gone. And I'm, I have no idea what his story is. We just like joke about him

is like a fun wrestling name. But apparently he's got involved in some really fucked up shit. So. curious to see that yeah the dark sides they do a great job all right tim haley by the way the executive producer when i asked him we spoke right before the the kimbo episode dropped and i was like is there one topic that you fought for that didn't come through or do you think or if this gets renewed for season two that you are going to make sure that this happens and he said the story of anderly silva will be part of season two

which I love it's a good story well interesting I'm not sure I'd call it good in that traditional sense but deeply fascinating yeah 100% so many guys out there have amazing

I've heard some amazing pride stories about just the things that just yeah it was a wild it was a wild time the pride dark sides are good I haven't seen that one yet yeah you go check it out It's two episodes.

One is the rise and one is the fall. And it's awesome. Pretty awesome. That's so cool. Yeah. All right. Oh, got some, got some Andrew Tate defenders in the comment section. I know.

It's the best. I'm not even, I don't want to go there. I don't want, I'm not even going to go there today. Thank you, Slito. All right. What we got here? Lazybed. UFC 26 was Iowa.

27 was New Orleans. foreshadowing? Perhaps. I mean, not really just in the fact that like we know they're going to New Orleans this year. It is not, the timeline is not there or whatever. But I mean, Dustin has basically said this is happening this year at some point in time. And it will be my final fight. But that is fun.

Also clever. A lot of cleverness from the chatters today. Yes, for the most part. And UFC 2028 was it Atlantic City. No, Oh, that's Natachi? Atlantic City. That would have been incredible if 28 was Tachi.

And I was hoping. All right. Thank you, lazy bed. And one last super chat from Terrence again. 99, super chat. Thank you so much. My man. If this all.

boxing female card is good will ufc follow if you had to make a dream main card who would it be oh ufc all women's main card so they were so we talked about this before they they wanted that there was plans a couple of years ago i think the last time they went to san antonio they were going to they were going to make it an all women's card uh it didn't happen but they were there were plans to do that. And I don't remember what the main event was going to be. I want to say that was the Macy Barber, Andrea Lee fight card. I don't think that was going to be the main event, but I know that was like one of the

fights that was supposed to be on that card. And just for some reason or another, it just didn't come together. So, but now MVP run by Jake Paul and Nekisa Bedarian, they are doing an all female boxing card at Madison Square Garden in July, headlined by the trilogy fight between Katie Taylor and Amanda Sforano, which is just going to. be fun as hell. Netflix and that card will obviously come together. But if we did a all-female UFC main card, who would it be?

You know it sucks about that. It's like UFC just kind of missed the boat on that one. I felt like five, six years ago, the timing was better for that. But now, now it's just the women's divisions just aren't as strong as they were five, six years ago. but are we doing so we're doing a main card right now with the modern roster yeah yeah man make a true main card who would have paid yeah man Tristan Tate defenders in the chat are just gonna hate this one not watching this garbage sport

I mean John Whaley and Valentina Shepchenko is one of them right I mean that depends Chivchenko has a title defense that she may not win. So, like, I would stipulate Zhang versus the winner of the upcoming title fight. Yeah, but this is a dream main card. I don't think any, no, do disrespect to Man and Fioro. I don't think anyone's dreaming of Man and Fioreau fighting John Weiley. I think people would more prefer John and Faltee.

So main event, main event, Payne Harrison. Pena Harrison and then Zhang, Shepchang goes to co-co. Co-main event. Those are the two things that you've been. Top two, easy. You build the card around, be the best pay-per-view that's happened this year. That's actually a very nice pay-per-view already at the top. Already, it's certainly better than 3-12.

Natty Ice versus Rosedama Yunus would be the featured bout. Got to get Jand-Joruba versus Suarez. Dern-2. Dern-2? Yeah. We started the Yon fight on there? Dern-2. I think Jand-Roberba.

Sure. That's the one that I would. Yeah, I like that. Ginger Robbins. It's very fun. Yeah, Gingerover Durn too. And then it's COC. They probably put Macy Barber in a spot to get on a main card again.

Like, it's Jazz and Jazz DeVizzi. If they're trying to make this like big. Or Blanchard? Yeah, she's not. Yeah, she's a good fighter. I don't think. I like it. She'd be a good prelim fighter.

Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. No, it's just, it's not because she's not good at fighting. We're trying to sell pay-per-views here. I'm sorry, Aaron Blanchfield ain't selling a single pay-per-view. No, no, no. Macy Barber and then the UFC signs Dakota Dichneva.

Oh, now we're talking. Now we're talking. That's a really good five. Maybe they don't sign. Maybe they trade Magrame and Angolaia for Dakota Dichita because they don't want his ass. Dude, dude, would they do that? I honestly think I said it on our post show. They would trade a champion.

They should just trade Angolaia. They clearly don't want his ass And like They could just take all of the fighters in PFL They seem to do better with Russian Is they UC Russians? Is it a Russian Russian?

Yes, he's Russian. Yeah, I was double-checking. They do well of Russian fighters So maybe Russian fighters really aren't pay-per-view draws But they obviously get lots of clicks Around the world If Don Davis called

The UFC Brass And offered that trade right now they would accept it before they'd be like, hold on, we'll call you back. Before the phone hangs up, they made the decision to say yes. We want Pico and Eblende and Dichiva.

And Don Davis should still be like, sure, I accept your trade offer. That's, yeah. Also, somebody in the chat pointed this out. I actually think the UFC should do this if Kayla beats Juliana Pena and they do get Nunes to come back. I think that Kayla Nunes should be the main. like the main event of a legitimate

they should actually try and do this because it would be a cool thing to do for the sport. Yep. To be like, all right, now we'll do Zhang, Shevchenko on the co-main event to Nunez Kayla and we'll just blow this out and people will

hate it, but it will be legitimately pretty cool thing to do. Yeah. But also if they do, and maybe here's how you pitch it to them too. If you do one all female card, you just basically don't have to put women's bouts on like the next 12 cards because you only have about 20 women who are worth a damn anymore because you have less you'd have to do like yeah you'd have to do like four women's bandamweight fights because that'll definitely hit your target number yeah you've on span in one night you'll have knocked out all the bandamweight fights for a year if you do four on one card they do like 12 bannamweight fights a year it's insanely low volume great there's no one on there's no one on there's no one on there's

There's just no one there. How many was it last year? Because I remember two years ago I was like looking this up for something. And it was legitimately like 19 Bannamweight fights. If you were counting fights where fighters missed weight and were like featherweight bouts as well. And then Julia Avila retired. So there's like one, there's one women's ban on weight that's off the books. That's like 8% of their entire ban on weight roster right there.

It's just gone. Thank you, Terrence. Even like in other organizations, even locally in gyms. Like I just don't see any female 135ers even out there. That's the crazy part. It's not like the U.C. aren't signing. There's just not out there. They're not in the gyms.

They're just, yeah, it's not like, I don't. Would you care to guess how many women's ban and wave fights there were last year? 22. Really close. 21. 21 for a entire weight class. I was being generous too. Wow.

I thought it'd be off at three or three. I was thinking below 20. Yeah. Yeah. That is still just not a lot. Not a lot. In comparison, men's fly weight,

a weight class that is dedicatedly undeserved, like they tried to kill it. 43. And we thank them for that. Because none of those fights are bad. They're not. Thank you, Terrence. All right.

See other super chats we got. I got a couple more coming in from our friend Chase. This is a classic, but yeah. Do you think Big A match up against Prime D.C. and Jones? It would be competitive. I don't know if he'd win. I wouldn't pick him to beat Jones. I wouldn't pick him to be Prime D.C. either.

But he'd be competitive with either. Probably wouldn't pick him to be Prime D.C. I think he'd be competitive with both. he's a really well-rounded skill set he didn't get in the doors blown off him by either guy I think DC would have a hard time wrestling him could succeed but would have a hard time and then DC would also just had physical disadvantages

being as small as he was a heavyweight I think that that could be a very tough fight for him still probably favored DC but could be tough Jones is John Jones like Prime John Jones is, like, at worst, the third best fighter I've ever seen on Earth. So I would obviously pick Prime John Jones to beat him. But I also watched Prime John Jones, like, win fairly tepid decisions for a lot of his career because he just did not want to expose himself to any danger whatsoever. Like, I think that that fight would probably end up being pretty boring.

How would you pick? How about Hank over, let's call it. Tiago Santos, Dominic Ray's era, John Jones. I mean, I still just default John winning, but that's really like it's just going to be a coin flip. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I had John leaving in my own scorecards leaving the UFC on a two fight losing streak. Go did I.

Leave leaving the division. I thought he lost both of those fights, but you know, like. I would definitely pick Hank, but you know, but it's fun to talk about, but prime John Jones. prime john jones is prime john jones i mean that's that's why i still think i think big ang would have been a tougher fight for him in his prime still because he can't just he won't just get free takedowns and on galahs like decent in the clinch not amazing but he's decent enough to not get like his throttled in the way that john throttled most people in the clinch but john just had so many physical advantages over every two o five that ever walked the earth that i cannot

pick against him. Yeah. All right. Thank you, Chase. One more super chat. It's a good one. Ocker Carlson, Kid Rock won't be in crowd for that one.

I think that's probably correct. Yeah, certainly. All right. What else we got here? This week, Waldo Cortez Acosta versus Ryan Span is booked. Is that an under-the-radar fight on a card people don't care about? Waldo is 12-1 quickly massing a good run at heavyweight. Ryan Span is debuting at heavyweight.

Sir. Sir. Sir. No. What is that Joseph? I do not accept your terms. No. This is just, what are we talking about? Like WCA is honestly like a respectable heavyweight, but come on, man. Like this is circling back to the Seinfeld comment. He's like winning or whatever, but I don't care to ever watch a fist fight somebody. And Ryan Spann is Ryan Span making his heavyweight debut. No, not at all. The interest in this fight is purely like morbid curiosity about. how bad these two weight classes can be.

I mean, there is no such thing as a, there is no such thing as an under the radar fight on this card. It just isn't. It's, it's just all bad. It's just all bad. The worst part I've ever seen put together on paper. Maybe it'll be fun, right?

Like, you know, I know that Dana gets a lot of mileage out of that particular line of thought of like, well, it's the card. you don't think about that are the best. We could have fun on Saturday. Yeah, this is a contender series card. It's a contender series card. Yeah.

With a main event with two recognizable names. Dude, I didn't even do like an actual breakdown on it. Off the top of my head, there are like nine contender series fighters on this card. And the probably more, that's just off the top of my head that I can be like, yeah, that That was a contingency of prospect. Plus you got some road to you of C folk.

You got a couple of, one or two tough dudes on here. Like, this is meaningless. This card is meaningless. So, none of it's on the radar. This is no.

I think the only fight that I have like any true curiosity for is the Hernandez-Hollabo fight. That's like the only one that I'm like somewhat curious about. And I, truth be told, somehow,

some way. I don't know what I ate to make me so lucky. I got the night off on Saturday, so I don't have to work this card. So I probably will not be watching live. Yeah, I probably will not be watching live. The only fight I might tune in for live is the Hernandez-Hollabo fight because I just, the Hernandez, the Alexander Hernandez, not even an experiment, just his run is so wild and weird. And I don't, he's just, he's going to be an interesting. like documentary piece someday about

finding rapid success in the world's biggest fighting organization and then really learning nothing because he didn't get to grow in the promotion. He just beats Vanil Darius and then is a top 15 fighter in the best division in the sport

after just 35 seconds of being in the UFC. And then he talked a bunch of shit about Donald Serroney at a press conference, got kicked in the face. Didn't go well. And I kind of killed them. Yeah.

Didn't go well. This court this weekend has like a number of prospects. I'm pretty excited to watch. But like again, just terrible. There's nothing good about this card. Carly Judy's fighting. I'll probably watch that.

She's probably, she's wicked fight. Andre Lewis, prospect of really like. Josiah Musasa, prospect of really like. Kevin Vallejos. Calvin Vallejos is a prospect of

everyone should absolutely be in love with because he is the God's honest truth. That kid's going to be incredible. Vallejos was on Continue Series two years ago and lost like one of the better fights of the year to Jean Silva. We've all seen what John Silva's done in the UFC. And Kevin Vallejos, who's 22 years old, gave him a lot more trouble than basically anybody else John Silver's fought. That dude's going to be sick. But like that's what this card is. Like you want to watch some of the stars of tomorrow.

They're on this card. But this shit could be going down and like a wild bills near you and would be functionally the same. Yeah. You want to talk about nicknames? This isn't ultimate field of dreams. This is UFC 8X 104 enhancement talent. That's what this card is. Yep.

And of course, the Waldo Cretza Costa Ryan Span. Hornburner we've all been waiting for. Oh, yes. No, we haven't because it's flown so far under the radar that we forgot all about it. He's quickly amassing a good run, a heavyweight. I'm just saying. He's five and one, which is really speaks to what heavyweight is. He is knocking on the door of headlining a card in Derek Lewis.

Against Derek Lewis in some godforsaken farm city in the United States. Des Moines would have been a perfect place for Derek. Somewhere in upstate New York. And Poughkeepsie, U.S.C. Pekipsy, Derek Lewis versus Waldo Cortez-A Costa. Ladies and gentlemen. I do love WCA because he is the patron saint of heavyweight overs. So at least you got that going for us. But, man, it's actually a really fun dynamic.

Waldo Cretace Costa basically can only fight 15 minutes. And Rinespan can only be done fighting in five minutes. So a stoppable force meeting a moment. movable object. Who will win here? I do not know. Can you imagine if this is a 7 p.m. prelim 10 p.m. Eastern main card?

Oh my God. When is it? Is it four? It's a 4-7. It's an early, the early apex luckily. Thank God I don't have to buy energy drinks this week. But maybe it would be fun, guys.

No, no. I'm just fine. There's a bunch of finishes in mismatched matchups. And that's okay. If you want like a quick night at the office with a bunch of,

finishes you're probably going to get it. And that's what these cards are should be honestly. Yeah. It should be just exciting highlight rows. No real significant meaning to the rankings. But like there is an actual conversation that AK and I are going to have on whether or not we're doing it on to the next one on Sunday. Like truly.

Because it's, it's dart throws on every single one of these fights every single one. Every middleweight. Yes. Who the fuck is he? Yes. I thought the other Roman. Random welterweight. Oh, that's true.

that's true the road he thought he was fighting this time around that's fights happening a matter of why I'm going to remember that that's a piece of trivia that's going to stick in my head for like 30 years

I will be old and having Alzheimer's and like losing my thing I'd be like you guys won't remember this there's a guy named Marvin Vittori who was like a consensus top 10 middle weight for nearly a decade and he once came out and admitted that he was rematching a dude

because he thought he was fighting another dude with the same name and like what the hell are you talking about what's the UFC grandpa you seen how old man like you guys don't know you don't know what the what the dark years of of the apex were like and then going anywhere the article you showed the photo of him wearing his um venom outfit backwards yeah i thought it was fighting the other roman i didn't realize those rematches did my fault last year you are our great okay i guess our great aren't great fans who watch watch on television.

They all tell us. They don't understand. They don't recognize the difference between a fight night on the road, a pay-per-view card in front of 20,000 people, or a fight night card in the mighty apex. It all sounds and feels the same to all of our fans. Never forget. I hate that so much. I don't like when you lie to me in general.

I really don't like when it's the most brazen lie of all time. I just, they don't even know this. Okay, man. Sure. Yeah. No. Don't go on Twitter the night of Apex cards. But the U.C. did expertly pair up Priscilla Casuar and Josian Nunez.

So, Priscilla, just keeping that job, baby. Let's go. I know M.A. is very young, but can you put into perspective its popularity? Outside U.S., it might be harder to tell, and it's still relatively unknown in very niche in places, but thoughts on its growth today. How do you compare that? I haven't saying for a while the UFC is as big as it's ever been

but MMA is smaller Oh 100% I don't it doesn't feel like it makes sense by saying that but yeah that's why I The brand as strong as it's ever been But the sport itself it's yeah I don't know Yeah It's smaller I mean there's pockets

There's pockets of the globe where it has grown immensely Like KSW is fucking gigantic in that part of the world and you know in most people's eyes like KSWs in that part of the world Poland and a lot of parts of Europe

that's they're bigger than the UFC in that part of the world. Oh yeah. So it is interesting when you look at it that aspect but you know just kind of looking at it from our points of view in the U.S. and we look at the growth and emergence of

other sports that have been in kind of similar spots. I always compared to where the UFC is now to where it was like right before WWF did the thing with MTV before they really blew up

and Hulk Hogan got over and became massive like that's kind of like they were bigger and they started getting more worldwide and global. The territory wrestling business was no more and that's kind of where I think this is right now like very popular. Everyone knows who

they are. Not everyone's to tune in right now, but tremendous growth came very quickly. And now we see what WWE, WWE had peaks and valleys, no doubt about it. But now, what, 40 years later, they are bigger than they've ever been after all that. So it's, I would say that, but even then, I don't really know is like, what is it? Is it poker? Like televised poker? Poker might not be a bad call. Pokers, honestly, that feels decent, right? I'm trying to like just sort of quick pull something based on a very cursory search of the internet,

and this is by no means definitive. But like just looking at the UFC's revenue in 2024, a little over a billion dollars, like 1.3 or something like that. it's like a top 20 sports league the UFC is globally which feels about right right the UFC has a broader at least it has it has reached a level of identification in the world broadly speaking but I think to Casey's point

MMA outside of the UFC almost does not exist anymore and so really league the UFC is almost synonymous with MAA in a lot of respects at this point in time. And so like, you know, it's a top 20-ish sports league in the world. That's good. That's incredibly successful business. But like it's not any other major sport that you know. There's just none of those exist.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's hard one answer, but yeah. Unique. You know, I'm always blown away by. I always think MMA's, oh, UFC so big. But then I look at the world of gaming, that is insanely big. I'm just like, I'm just like, or e-sports, whatever you call that, you know.

Man, I don't know, I just started my just growth of sports. That one always kind of just shocks me how big gaming is. But yes. Someone, I got into a discussion with somebody on Instagram not that long ago. I had to eventually pull whatever hair is left in my head out. But he was like, he goes, he was arguing that the UFC was bigger than golf. And I was like, are you fucking ridiculous? That is, that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life.

I just want like, I'm not entirely sure the UFC is bigger than the MLS. I think it is. I don't think it's by that much. I don't think so. Yeah, maybe like social media metrics perhaps, but not like, not viewership wise. Like, it's not even close. It's not even close. Golf, like a bunch of YouTubers

golfed at the players at the TBCC Sawgash yesterday. That's more people watch that than are going to watch the watched any of the UFC pay-per-views this year. By a lot. That's just the growth of golf. They're on fire right now, just absolutely on fire. And UFC is too. From a business perspective, the UFC is murdering it.

Like, they are just crushing it. And they've won. They've legitimately won MMA in 2020. Oh, yeah. Game's over. Yeah. Wait until they sign this new deal. It may not get a billion a year, but they're going to get pretty damn close.

They're going to get like $950 million a year, which is nothing to sneeze at. Like you have won for you've won. The game's over. No one's touching them. No one is catching them. Honestly, I think poker might be a really good call, whereas there was a big poker boom. People really took to poker. Poker still exists.

It's fairly pervasive. People maybe watch one or two things on ESPN a year, the World Series or whatever, but sort of just fell out to rescinded. I think there's a lot of similarities there. Yeah. And we are in undeniably a down period of the UFC. It is receding right now. It will very likely go back up, but it's going to be a cyclical sort of thing because the history of the sport has been sick. like not it has not been a consistent rate of growth the broader trajectory is there but it's got

peaks and valleys on this broad upward climb so poker's a pretty good call i think that that might be closest yeah the boom of the ufc audience is is upon us like we're in the middle of it right now but as most people know who have been fans of the sport it's like an NFL career being a ufc fan you're if you're in you're in not everyone can be tom brady and peyton manning and play for 20 Like, if you're in, you are in. But most people who become fans of the sport and start watching shit and having people over to watch, their fans for like two or three years. And then they're like, okay, I'm done.

It's too much to keep up with. And they watch from a casual perspective. Yeah, there's definitely, there's too much to keep up with. We have a fairly good amount of data that like the average MMA fandom is like three to five year cycles. And that's probably, I haven't actually seen anything about this. that probably changes with the lack there of stars, right? Like, Connor McGregor fans are more likely to stick with the sport because

Connor McGregor was involved in it without like key touch points like that. It's really hard to be fans of an organization. Like to be, ah, the UFC, you know the quality you are getting. You know that you have a baseline of something with the three letters branded of USC. But you don't, you're not a fan of promotions other than like the most ignorant mouth-breathing. there's in the world. And some of those exist, whatever. But like, also there is a very real cap to how many people will ever care about this sport. Organized violence is simply not for most people. And that is at a very baseline level what this is. For as much as Dana used to say, you go to a hockey game and

there's a football game and a fight breaks out of everybody goes to the fight. That's just not like most people do not want to watch organized violent, like real violence. They might watch, you know, violent movies or whatever, but most people do not want to watch fist fights with any sort of regularity. And so that puts a cap on it. And you know that there's a, let me tell you guys, MMA is pretty close to peak. Like the UFC is not going to get much bigger. It can still continue to grow and it can get wider in the global population. But here's how you know MMA is not going to get much bigger because Dana doesn't give a shit about it anymore. Dana would not be be dumping as much energy into power slap as he is or into his boxing league or surfing.

Like, there's only so many hours in the day you can do stuff. But MMA is pretty much a max saturation right now. Maybe not. There's still a little bit of room to go. But it's harder to get the next couple of percentage points up for where the UFC is versus starting a whole new thing and trying to grow it from the ground. Like, it's, MMA is never going to be. UFC is never going to be the fourth major sports league in the U.S.

It's just not going to be that. No. So it's not going to be bigger than soccer? Is that what you're telling me? It's never going to be bigger than soccer, football, hockey, tennis, golf, baseball. Basketball. Of basketball. Obviously, basketball is the number two.

It might be lacrosse. It'll stay bigger than lacrosse. I've been hearing. Pickle balls coming. Oh. Pickle balls coming. Cornhole is not coming either. Right there?

No, those are all. Those are all fast. Catching strays. No, as a collegiate rugby player, all I heard was that rugby and lacrosse are the next big sports. And that's been true for 20 years. And they still ain't there because they're just never going to,

they're never going to catch on. There's too much market here. You have to see like at best can be like the eighth biggest sport in America. And that's, I don't even think that's realistic like auto racing. If you count all auto racing, they're never going to catch auto racing. They're never going to be in the fucking ballpark.

of auto racing if you pile F1 and NASCAR and like the truck series and all that together. So, you know, they're sort of where they're at, which is unbelievable. As a fan from the early 2000s for the sport to be here is outrageous compared to like when I would literally be like, you couldn't illegally stream shit because nobody had a stream up. Nobody was streaming pride Mouschino 28 or whatever. Like that wasn't a thing. You had to either like have a black box pay-per-view to buy it or you had to wait and go watch a shoot in Blockbuster because the sport did not exist but in forums.

So it's unbelievable how it has come in the past 25 years, but it ain't going much further. Ultimate filter dreams. Ultimate. That's where it all started. The good old days. Cedar Rapids, Iowa. I didn't even know that. I didn't know that UFC 26

that couldn't even get a VHS of it. No clue. I just assumed you could get a VHS for all of them, but I had no idea of it. Thank you, Master's Universe. As Lazy Bed correctly points out, if you combine all these numbers together, Howard Slap double-thor.

All right, one last super chat before we get out of here. All right. Speaking of Reyes, the win in April, how many fights away is he from fighting for the belt again? Would be a cool moment if you can get back into it.

He is fighting Nikita Krylov? He is fighting Nikita Krilov at 314. Let me tell you something. If we had a first quarter... If we had a fighter of the year on BTL for the last five months, it's Dominic Reyes. More people are invested in the success and the rise to a second title or third title fight of Dominic Reyes than maybe...

any other fighter in the UFC based on the questions you guys ask. And I'm here to say, I love that. I love to see it. Dominic Reyes was a guy who, what, a year and a half ago, every time that man was booked for a fight, we were like, God, no, God no, don't do this. Oh, he's fighting Dusted Jacoby. Why?

Why? Who is his manager? Who are his coaches? Why are they allowing this man to fight? And now look at him. Now look at them. Two big wins, two finishes. and now we're talking how close is Dominic Reyes to a title fight?

And in the world where Magabat Ancolaev has fought almost everybody, there is one man he has not fought yet. Could it be, Jed? Could it be? Is Dominic Reyes the wild card here at 205 during this reign of Magna Ankelaev? Could we see him fight for a title this time next year? It would be the best thing that's happened in this sport. years, right? Like, the best thing that's happened in MMA remotely recently is Robbie Luller's

retirement, like, we finally got a good thing to happen. This would be like the next thing. Left for dead. I say it all the time in reference like other fighters. You lose four in a row your career's over. Nobody comes back. Like, Androovsky's like the only fighter who's ever lost four in a row and then turned it around to be relevant again. Donald Reyes is on the cusp of doing that, right? Like he comes in here, he beats Nikkiy Krilov. Krilov is number eight in the UFC rankings. So Reyes will out of nowhere somehow be the number eight

like heavyweight in the world. A lot of the dudes above him like, God bless Jan Belhovic, he can't fight for much longer. He's 42 or something. There's just not that much left that Yonni's got bringing with him to the table. And, you know, Alex Pereiro probably not a long, tenured career left.

I mean, not trying to earn. early retire him, but he is also a little bit older. You could find a world where he beats Krillov and he's won away from a title fight. And that one might be like Jamal Hill, which is a winnable fight. You know, I love you, Air Phrashko, more than almost anyone on this planet. Yeri can lose to anybody because he's a psychopath. He doesn't. He beats everybody that's not named Alex, but he could lose to anybody because he's a crazy person.

So like a win at 314 will be an incredible feel-good story and literally put Reyes won away from having like an unparalleled career renaissance. Like I don't, the only fighters who like are remotely close if he ends up fighting for a belt by next year. And it's not the same, but like Glover getting the belt so late in his career was like a feel-good story of like, oh, Glover, we thought he could do it. John that one time and then just sort of was around and never did it. That was great. RDA, his career turnaround, Charles Olivera, like going from good fun fighter to champion. But like, they never lost four in a row and were like, this dude just needs to leave the sport. It would be almost unparalleled and incredible.

I desperately hope it happens. It would be so cool. I think, I think, Ray, it's with one win. I think if he knocks out Krilov, like, he could get a title shot. roundtry got one on less roundtry and reyes is a story coming into it maybe

I think I think the way the ball is much less much less yeah but I think the way the ball is breaking right now in the division that's tough because you have Carlos Albert

fighting Yombovich Albert I think is going to win that fight at that point it's always availability though you never know that's what I'm saying like I'm not saying it's zero but it's a really low percentage

that he beats Krilov and gets one it's not zero but it's like two percent because there's the Alex rematch that seems like it's going to happen. Carlos Alberg is sort of waiting in the wings. Jamal Hill and Khalil are fighting. What we are all saying Alex is fighting too much? He needs to take some time off.

Maybe he doesn't think he sits out. We are saying that, but nobody in his camp is saying that. They're all saying they want the immediate rematch. So I assume that the immediate rematch is coming. Yeri is waiting. Carlos Olberg will be waiting. The winner of Hill Roundtree. There are just too many names in front.

front of him in the list. It's not zero. It's really low. So I think he will just have to win one more. But if he beats Khrlov and can win one more, if he wins one more, he is fighting for a belt. It won't matter. He doesn't need two more wins to fight or three more wins to fight for a belt. He just needs two. And that in itself would be a damn near miracle. Yeah, he might fight Carlos Oberg. Who knows, depending on how this Carrera Anka Live thing goes, because I don't expect AnkyLive to fight until like October. And it's Carl Zoburg. Whenever they go to Dubai or wait at a year to fight again.

Yeah, they'll go to Abu Dhabi and October like they always do. That's probably when Ankleife will fight again. Unless the UFC wants it sooner. And then again, that phone rings. Could be him. I mean, the brutality of those knockout losses were just, it just got worse and worse and worse. Yombovovich.

Which clobbers him. Yuri Prahashka. He was beaten John Jones and just got dead a bunch. I thought Yuri Perhashka like ended his life. And he was beating Yuri too. He was going to beat Yeri until the spinning back elbow of doom. And they were like, all right, he's fighting Ryan Span. It's competitive.

Don't talk about Yer. We're going to know. Yeah. Then he fights Ryan Span and MS. You know I love you. I love him. I love him more. All right.

Yuri is my large adult son. The only thing I need in life is to see Yuri fight DDP. It and Eddie Hall versus Puds are the... Give me those two and I'll die, happy man. All right? I think we're good, right? We're good. All right.

We're done. Hit the music. Appreciate you. Hey, back next week, we'll react to UFC Vegas 104 for the first four and a half minutes in the program. And then we'll get you ready for UFC London. and everything else is going on. Dirty boxing next week as well. So there's a lot going on next weekend.

So get excited. We'll discuss it right here on the program for Casey for Jed. I am Mike Heck. Have a great rest of your week. Back next week here on BTL, the iconic voice special and takes you home. Good night. Love y'all.

Even those of you just mouth-breathing hard in the chat. Love all of you. This has been Between the Links. Goons. And then I'm a fighting production. on the Vox Media Network.