MMA Fighting - BTL | Bo Nickal Arrives, Next For Yoel Romero, UFC Vegas 61 vs. Bellator 286

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

Bo Nickal impressed the masses once again at Tuesday’s season finale of Dana White’s Contender Series, and then called out Khamzat Chimaev. We now know that Nickal will debut against Jamie Pickett, but did the matchmakers get his debut opponent right? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel reacts to Nickal’s quick submission win and what his future looks like in the middleweight division. Additionally, topics include Yoel Romero’s devastating KO of Melvin Manhoef at Bellator Dublin, and where the promotion should go with “Soldier of God” next, Bellator 286 this Saturday and if it is the best card of the weekend top to bottom, if the featherweight championship headliner is actually the most interesting fight on the card, UFC Vegas 61, the stakes in the main event between Mackenzie Dern and Yan Xiaonan, the event being closed off to fans and media, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the BTL championship matchup between MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and the returning Phoenix Carnevale. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Phoenix Carnevale: @microphonephoen Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster, The Downloaded.

It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition, between the links, quite possibly,

the biggest episode of the show we have ever had, because quite frankly, the stakes couldn't be possibly any higher than they are this afternoon. It was December of 2021. We had just sort of, we're just about wrapping up an eight-person tournament to crown an undisputed BTL champion. The finale was supposed to be the matchup we're getting today.

Unfortunately, schedules got crazy. It didn't come to fruition. Jed Mishu ended up facing a K. He won the belt. And while he had the title, he never felt like he was the actual champion. And since then, we have had new champions. We've had about 75 interim champions. I actually became the champion at one point.

And then I vacated the title last week in lieu of this matchup, the one we were supposed to get 10 months ago. And it's happening right now, now that we took this trip down memory lane. So let us introduce the panelists first. The aforementioned Mr. No Gray area. Mr. Hot Take. This is his moment. This is the test of all test for him.

This is everything if we are being honest. Jed Michoud, hello, my friend. Oh my God. Look at this. This is my moment. How are we feeling? How are we feeling? This is my moment.

I dress for success. You dress for the job you want. Obviously the job I want is ring announcer to the stars. But the second job, if I can't get that, It's going to be to finally put a loss, put one in the lost column for Phoenix Carnival. Let's go, baby. Woo!

That is unbelievable. Yes, his opponent, the undefeated, unbeaten, unblemished. Many consider her to be the goat of this program. But she's been out of the game for almost a year. So let's see if the time away pays off for Phoenix Carnivali. Welcome back. No prom dress for Phoenix. But that doesn't matter here.

about what you wear. It's about what you say. How are you? I didn't know that this was a formal fair. And I have to say, I'm absolutely flattered that Jed feels the need to go all out for me. So I don't know what that says. I have been out of the game. I might have ring rust, but let's see. Let's see if I could pull it out. Dominic Cruz says ring rust isn't real. And if you can't trust that man, then who can you trust? So no excuses, Phoenix. I decked out so I get a hand to your ass. finally, and we're going to do it this time, baby. Let's go. I'm stoked. We have very different styles, Jed. Very different styles. If I'm the princess of positivity, Jed is just bitch about it, Jeff. So we're going to leave on that. I'm okay with that.

That's my brand. I own that brand. But at least he looks royal while he delivers those takes. So let's get into this, a lot to get to. I don't know if I can look at Jed any longer. I'm just starstruck by this by this ensemble but let's talk about bow nickel because this guy delivered the goods he lived up to the hype he runs over donovan beard in less than a minute on the contender series on tuesday and then he finally got signed to the ufc even though we know he was probably already signed even before the first contender series fight but this guy's a problem he's a super prospect he has all the wrestling accolades and he seems like the real deal Jed Bishu, we have some breaking news.

We'll get to that in a moment, but let's just talk about what we have seen thus far. We have seen him twice on the Contender Series now. This one on Tuesday was, at least on paper, his toughest opponent yet, and he destroyed him. What do you think? How impressed are you with Bo Nickel, the MMA fighter? I'm so excited to get to talk about this one, Mike,

because as soon as I watch, I never watched the Contender series. I've been pretty honest about it. It's just no disrespect if you like it. I don't have any issues with it. It's just I spend literally every day of my life in the combat sports world. And so I take Tuesday nights off to kind of decompress and do whatever else. But I obviously tuned in for Bow-Nickel because he's Bo-Nichol.

We want to see what's going on with this guy. And I immediately afterwards, I had two thoughts. The first one is, next ranking cycle. I'm putting him in my middle way. I don't care what any of y'all say. I don't care if it's ridiculous or early or whatever. That man could be half the top 15 middleweights in the world tomorrow. weights in the world tomorrow.

That just is what it is. And the second, and this is going to be near due to your heart as well. Because Mike, you and I agree on some things, not everything. You and I have both been very high on one gentleman in particular, to the point that I have previously on this very program and on other programs from the MMATFighting.com crew, great website. Check it out. I have said, Muhammad Makayev is the best prospect in MMA, that I think that guy is going

to win two belts probably one day. certainly win one, probably win two. The best prospect in the entire sport. He is no longer because the best prospect in M.M.A. is Bo Nickel. As confident as I am in Muhammad Makayev to eventually take the flyweight strap. I am even more confident in Bo Nickel to eventually take the middleweight strap. I knew that the sky was the limit for this guy, given his wrestling background. Because let's be honest, the only reason he is not doing the Olympic cycle thing is,

because he happens to exist in a weight range that is dominated by the best guys in the world and some of the greatest American wrestlers of all time. And if he chose to, if he chose to stick it out and wrestle, you know, he's not going to beat David Taylor this cycle, but give him four more years. Taylor gets a little older, some of the magic of the magic man wears off. Boe Nichols right there. But instead, he knew where he wanted to go. He wanted to give it one shot at the Olympics, miss, come here. And we are going to be so much better for it. There's the one question you always have with guys like this is how do they adapt to MMA and sure we haven't seen a lot of aspects of his game but he seems to have he is a duck to water baby there is no issues with this

guy this guy is going to be a champion sooner rather than later wouldn't at all surprise me if you won two belts and book him book him right now get him in shoot him to the moon put the boots put the rocket boots on him and launch him because there is nothing standing in the way of this man and superstardom phoenix what's say you, how impressed are you? You don't seem all that impressed with Jed's comments, but where do you rank Bo Nickel on your prospect list? Is he the best prospect right now? Is he in the conversation? What have you made of these two contender series fights or if you watched anything prior to that? I look at a multitude of things, right, because I come from a sports science background and the word

that comes to mind with this kid is thoroughbred. I am that impressed. More importantly, I think that he's groomed for the pressure that a fighter gets when they enter the UFC, which is why I wasn't crazy about the Rojas thing, because he's 17 years old, and I do think that there's a level of maturity that you need as an athlete to step into these type of arenas. And Nichols is already a champion. He's already seen high pressure situations, and of course, the UFC is a bigger animal, but you can see the poise, the professionalism, the way he interviews, the way he takes charge in his training, I think it's sort of the right move. I think he's pretty ready to go.

And I do agree with Jed that he could see anybody in the top 15. But that doesn't necessarily mean that we should jump him along right away. And I know we do have some late breaking news coming up in a second. So I won't get there. I'll let you allude to that, Mike. But the kid is a thoroughbred. And he is ready for this type of arena. He is ready for this type of situation.

And he's kind of the thing that we need. If you think about it, the entire way that he's coming. along to this point now was done well by the UFC because a lot of us don't watch the contender series because we're a little MMA'd out every once in a while, especially those of us that are in the media. But it's got us talking about the way these matchups happen and the way we start to develop stars. So every fight you have and every name you beat, you put more in your grab bag. You put more things for us as storytellers, as media members to talk about. So let's not rush the kid, but let's definitely get excited about him because he is an exciting personality and talent.

As Jed talked about and as a lot of people talked about on heck of a morning, I love doing a heck of a morning on a certain topic. And then like 30 minutes later, the show just means really very little if anything. Because the question we talked about is do we just give him a top 15 guy right now? Because like Jed said, he matches up well with a bunch of these guys already, even though he's just three fights into his pro and May career. But wins on the contender series. He calls out Shemayev.

Then the Logan Paul call out. I'm not going to address that. It was silly. Then Darren Till tweets about him express his interest in fighting him. Henry Sohudo says things. But I actually don't fully disagree with that he can match up well with the champion right now. And then right before we went on here, we just confirmed via multiple sources, myself and the great Damon Martin,

a report from the UFC's broadcast partner ESPN. Bo Nichols, UFC debut is set. It is December 10th, UFC 282, and he's fighting Jamie Pickett. So, Phoenix, I will begin with you. Was this the fight to make? Was this the right matchup?

Was this too low, too high? What do you think? You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, right? Because of how much of a thorough bread that Nichols is, you're going to be like, oh, you're going to give him a guy with a two-fight losing streak.

Well, yeah, but Pickett also has like 13 fights, right? I don't know his record like offhand, but he's definitely seasoned. He has a lot of experience. So I kind of think it's a win-win situation. He's not so big that you're not letting this kid develop, but he's experienced enough that he's a challenge enough for Bow-Nichols in that arena.

He does have hands, you know, he does have some knockout power. So this could be a good test. like I was saying about the maturity of building fighters, I think it's really important because the idea of your maturity as an individual, like think about how young in age Mike Tyson was, and everyone's like, oh, but he's a great example when they used it for Rojas. I'm like, yeah, but look at the mental state that Mike was in in such a young age. So mentally and professionally, it's good to develop them.

I would say that you're at a good level here where it's not somebody who's been beating everyone, but he is seasoned enough that it's a bit of a challenge. So I would say it's a good choice. Jed, something tells you you don't agree with this choice. I think it's, you probably think it's fine. There he is. Look at that. Look at that freaking tuxedo.

I can't get my half of it. But this is the fight. It's happening. December 10th, Las Vegas T-Mobile Arena, UFC 282. Magic Pencil, is this how you would begin his UFC progression? You're right. And then I think it's fine, Mike. Like a lot of what Phoenix said I agree with, they are kind of damned if they do,

damned if they don't. Whatever they match them up with, there are going to be people who bucket that idea. And so this is fine. But that's all this is. This is no better or worse than fine. It just, you got to be honest about exactly what this is. This is a fight he is going to win. I do not think Jamie Pickett will provide literally any amount of resistance to what Boe Nichol is going to do. This is, for all intents and purposes, his introduction to the UFC. It is, and this is very disrespectful respectful to Jamie Pickett, but I'm sorry. That's just a world we live in my man. This is the same as his contender series fights. There is nothing that is going to trouble Bo Nicol. I mean, Kyle Doc is Bravo choked this dude. Bo Nickel is going to wrap him up like a pretzel and eat him like

Annie M's. Like, that's just what's going to happen here. And that's okay, because that is, the goal for this fight is not to season him with a test. It's just to give him more reps, do so in a way on a pay-per-view where they can introduce him to the people who don't watch the contender series, but the people who tune into the big pay-per-view shows. And so that's fine. I would have liked something a little bit more because while I largely agree with what Phoenix is saying about prospect development and growth, I don't want to do that as much with Bo Nickel.

I think for the Rojas thing, I am a million percent in agreement with Phoenix here. Like 17, he has so much to learn and develop. Like Sage Northcut probably could have been a better fighter than he ended up being, but the way the UFC handles stuff just didn't work out for him. He was too young. I have real concerns that Chase Hooper is going to exist in the same thing. Like I don't like how they develop young talent. But also to Phoenix's point, but technically young talent.

He's not old, but this is a man who is incredibly seasoned in combat sports. He has that poise. He has the experience. He is not going to wilt under the pressure. he has been a high, high, high, high level athlete for almost his entire life, basically. Like, he, it's okay to grease him along a little faster to shoot him through the quick lanes up to the top, you know, fast track this guy a little bit. Like I said, I'm fine with the picket.

I know what we're going to do. And I suspect that after he goes and rolls through picket, we'll move upward a little bit more in the rank, not in the rankings yet, but they'll take a big step. You'll probably get two to three fights before you do somebody in the top 15. with Bo Neckle, but I would be okay for us short-cutting that by one. And Kyle Dawkes would have been an okay fight. Somebody like that, a top 30-ish kind of dude

who will actually provide resistance because as good as it probably is for Bo Neckle to just get more cage time, I think he needs less of that than I need to see him actually face real resistance because I'm certain he gets it in the gym. He's training with killers, you know? He is not going to be new to this.

but there is a difference between doing it in the gym and doing it bright lights and a paper view. So I would have liked to see something a little higher up just to touch more, just something that is, someone that is going to actually provide real resistance. And I don't think we're getting that with Pickett, but I know what we're doing here. And that's okay.

It's totally fine. We'll probably get that the next time out with Bo. Yeah, I was kind of on the camp. Just give him one, middle the pack guy, middle back end of the middle of the pack and then if he goes out there and just does what he's been doing to all these guys he's fought yeah give him a big jump if you want to give him a top 20 guy great you want to give him docus or higher i'm fine with that i mean there are people on haggamorne say throw him in with marvin vittory like right now i don't know if i would necessarily do that but

it's obviously very dumb and you should not do that but like that that's going to be the interesting thing about promoting him as far as one we talked a lot about his all his He is also just a damn good salesman. Like he knows how to generate interest on the mic. He was that way in collegiate wrestling. Like he is going to bring that aspect to fighting. And he is ready. Every time he talks, he wants to fight Hamza Chimha.

He wants to take his shots at the top dudes. They're not going to be able to rein him in. If he goes out here and obliterates picket and keeps talking all this greasiness in the words of Jose Youngs, they're going to have to give him some action. And it becomes really interesting because. Because there are some guys at the, like, optimally you would put him in at the back of the top 15. I actually think some of those guys are much more difficult test than some of the, like, top tenish dudes in the UFC. Like, I would pick Bo Nicol to beat Sean Strickland tomorrow.

And Sean Strickland's like a top seven dude or whatever. Like, Darren Till, God love him and much respect to the tweet, he said he wants to face him down the road. He should just never want to face him because Bo Nickel will obliterate Darren Till. right now. But like Chris Curtis is probably a way more difficult fight for for both than some of those other ones. So it'll be interesting to see how the UFC plays that. Because if they play him at the top end of the 15, he might have some struggles.

But if they just say, screw it, let's shoot you into the middle of the title hunt pack. He could do really well against a lot of those dudes. It's got to be very interesting. This guy is super legit. I like the matchup. And what a hell of an opportunity for Jamie Pickett. He, I mean, this is as good as it can get. Off two-fight losing streak, you've lost four of your last six,

and now you get the chance to stop this hype train. I mean, you couldn't ask for a better opportunity with everything on the line here. The juice is worth the squeeze for Pickett. It's a tough matchup. He's going to be a big underdog, but if he wins, that is a giant rub that this guy is going to get. But we'll see what happens. Speaking of matchmaking, we're going to stick with matchmaking, but we're going to go over to Bellator.

The point for route won. goes to Phoenix Carnivali. It's one to nothing. Well done. Good stuff. Good stuff. Boarding for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. What? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy. Hey, I won. Feel the fun. The morning will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario, only please play responsibly concerned by your gambling or that if someone close you, call 18665331-2-600 or visit comexonterio.ca.

With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. So this past week, our friends at Bellator returned to Dublin, Ireland. the crowd was on fire. We saw a wacky, wacky submission early on the prelims. Main card was interesting, some good fights, some really bad fights, if we're being honest.

We saw a dominant performance from Benson Henderson in the main events. But the talk of the show by a long shot was Yoel Romero. Yoel Romero finishes Melvin Manhoof, retires the man in brutal fashion with some horrific ground and pound. And this guy has a site set on a lot of goals and aspirations moving forward. despite being 45 years of age. So Phoenix, let us begin with you. Two straight finishes, two straight brutal finishes since his Bellator debut lost to Phil Davis.

What have you made of this sort of resurgence of Yuel Romero in Bellator MMA? I'm like, can we talk about the barking for just a second? What was why? Why did we, why were we trying to get like a sponsorship from the ASPCA? Like what the fight was over. So I don't understand where the hype in his body with the barking came.

I was confused. The other thing is 185, really at 45? Like, why? You probably have a better chance staying at light heavy. Like, why 185? Why, you have a hard time with it to begin with? You lost an opportunity against Luke Rockhold of all people. why 185? First of all, he's still a monster. I'll be as respectful as possible. But I did not like the matchup with Melvin. I just felt like you shouldn't put him in there with a kickboxer, let him ride off into the sunset doing his thing. Like that was hard. That was hard to watch. As a Melvin Manhoff fan, that guy's taken a lot of damage in his life. I really, that was rough. So I'm not like convinced

where Yowel belongs right now. I think just for his health, and because it just seems impossible to cut to 185, he looks like a monster, you know, at this weight. He's got no neck. He's huge. He's got the hugest glutes ever. He looks like a Kardashian.

Like his butt is so big. He's so powerful at this weight. I don't know if we're thinking, oh, it slows him down. He's always had a very explosive style. So either way, Yowell Romero was always fun. to watch. We're always going to watch

him until like the sun must set on his career. So I just don't get why 185. I mean, the cool thing about it is like, who can he fight? He's got the champ, the current champ who beat Masasi, right?

He doesn't have anything scheduled. But don't you have to maybe fight one of the top five guys in order to get there? I don't know if you've done enough at 185 even to like to get there. Could you fight Gaygard? Maybe, right? because he's number one ranked. Polkoff.

Who's the other one? Fabian Edwards, but I think he's matched up already. So what do you do with him? I say you have to make 185 first and prove to us that that's going to happen before we give you the opportunity to go for a belt. And if we're giving you an opportunity to go for a belt and you're not ranked there, he's ranked number four at 205, right? I haven't looked at the Bellator rankings in a while,

so I don't know if I'm right. you guys can tell me if I'm right or wrong. But I just don't know. I really am skeptical about 185 for him. Just from a safety perspective, he'd have to lose a little bit of muscle, which is fine. You can totally do it. But that takes a lot of time. It takes time.

So what is he just sit down for six and a half to seven months? The whole thing confuses me. Listen, I guess I do want to see him fight again, but I just feel like 185 shouldn't be a possibility at this stage in the game, why do you want to put your body through that? Just to ask, to answer your question, I have no idea where he's ranked, because we don't look at the Belator rankings. We look at the only rankings that matter, the MA fighting global rankings, which is you all ranked?

I think he's ranked, right? You're muted. I can't hear you. He's ranked number four in the Bellator rankings. Okay. I'm pretty sure we do not have him ranked. Okay. I know he was ranked for a time.

I know I had him ranked at 205 for a cup of coffee. ranked for a little bit. I don't think he is anymore. I think he's a fart. All right. Yes. But Jed, we know how much you revere, Yoel Romero. Revere the soldier of God.

Greatest middle of the world, baby. The soldier of Doug who has told me I am the best middle weight in the world. But listen, every time Yoha O'O. Romero fights, you talk loyingly about his career, him being such a freak athlete, maybe the greatest athlete that has ever stepped foot in a cage or a ring ever in this sport.

but his fights are always hit or miss. Either he does stuff or he doesn't. But last couple of fights, he's kind of done some stuff. So have you been impressed with the man that you still feel to this day beat Israel Adasania? I'll feel that way as long as I live until the day that I die, I will believe that Israel Adasania lost.

He lost schoolyard rules. This is all I'm saying, man. If you ask kids, if that fight happened in a school yard, you ask one, you'd be like, well, one of those dudes was incredibly terrible. terrified to go near the other one, so he just kicked him in the leather bunch and stayed as far away as possible. Schooling on rules, Yowell wins that fight 10 times out of 10. I don't make them. I just interpret the rules. I got a different series for you here for YOL because I still love Yowel.

Third round, Y'O. Romero remains the sports greatest mythical creature. I absolutely love it. You get some mythical fighters every now and then, but third round Romero, he really is something. agree with Phoenix, that dude can't make 185 anymore. He looked bigger. Like, he looked like he has purposely added weight in that fight this past weekend. And I, I just really don't think he can make 185 anymore. If he can, there's nothing wrong with the Johnny Ebblin fight. I think a Gaggard-Musasi fight at, like, 205 is just way more interesting. But here's the fight you actually make, Mike. Let me, you know that I've hosted, co-hosted a little bit of your program, your fine program

onto the next one on the NBA Fighting Podcast Network. Make sure you check it out, listeners. I've gotten my, I've learned a little bit from you and A.K. Leah in this regard. And here's what you do. Yoel Romero versus heavyweight champion, Ryan Bader for the Belltor, or heavyweight championship. Because the light heavyweights, you've got Nimcove, you've got Corey Anderson, they've got to settle up. Phil Davis is kind of in the mix somewhere, depending on how things shake out.

And Phil obviously did pick up one of the most boringest wins that ever there was against Yowell already. So you know what? Screw it. Who needs 205 and who needs 185? I agree with Phoenix. Don't cut 185. Let that beautiful butt of yours be free, Yowel. No weight cut whatsoever.

Pack on the pasta. Go up to heavyweight because I think you can beat Ryan Bader. I'm just going to be real. I believe you all Romero. can defeat Ryan Bader tomorrow. So that's the fight I want. Bellator, make it happen. Give me Joel Romero, heavyweight champion of the world.

Wow. That is quite the take. I like that idea. Phoenix, what do you think? Magic pencil here. No 185, Johnny Eblen out of the equation. Gayguard moving to 205 is not a bad idea. He's been talking about it for a long time.

Y'all seems to be a name that people keep asking them about. And we have a title fight coming up between Corey Anderson. and Vadim Nemcoff later on this year to crown an undisputed champion. We saw what happened in the first fight, ended in an unfortunate fashion, but Corey Anderson looked to be well on his way to winning that fight.

So how would you do this? Would you give him the winner of that fight? Because he is Yoel Freaking Romero. What do we do here? Do we do the Gayguard fight? Do you like Jed's idea of him bump it up to heavyweight and fighting Ryan Bader? I think heavyweight might be too much

because we already know his stylistically. If we put much more weight on him, then what are you going to see him explode once around. You know what I mean? So from a sports science perspective, keeping the explosiveness and the speed, like the thing that we love about you,

L. Romero is like, you never know what he's going to do. I do like the Gayguard thing. Since Ebblin basically outrestored, Gayguard, maybe Gayguard's incentive would be to see what he can do to recover from that is maybe try to wrestle, you know what I'm saying? I don't know.

Or really use his striking and his speed to work against UL Romero. So that could be. a fun one. And then Tolkhov could be a fun one too. So it's, it just depends on who Johnny gets matched up with, right? Like, I don't think he's matched up with anyone right now. So if he's going to hang out at 205, it really depends on, like, who's the winner of that? Because I don't think you get a title shot right away. I don't, I don't, I don't just think you're in a spot right there to get it. I don't know. I, you know, it just, I just need to see

him cut the weight a little bit and lose a little bit of muscle and still be safe. at 185, which I really just don't see happening. Have Gayguard go up. Yeah, and that's Johnny's concern as well, because obviously he was asked about this. And Johnny said he'd be happy to retire, Yol Romero, but also said he's concerned about whether or not YOL can make 185 or not.

So a lot to think about here. Johnny, you just can't, just don't say that. Just say the first part. The first part's fine. Like that's, don't, don't be very reasonable. That's not what's going to work for you in this in this situation. Well, you train to fight and somebody doesn't make weight and you don't get to perform that night

or you've got to deal with somebody who's way too heavy for you. All of that sucks as an actor. Yeah, I agree it sucks. I'm not saying he's being unreasonable. I'm saying that that is, that's a terrible thing to say to promote yourself as the unseen champion in a promotion that's me. You just say the first part. I'll retire that old word.

Yeah, like, that's it. That's all you need. Do the headline, man. Don't do the reasonable part. Fans don't like the reasonable part. Yeah, true. Yes, well, Belator is, they're going to be going again this weekend as well. Back-to-back weekends.

And the question is, and it's a question I've gotten a lot this week, do they have the best card of the entire weekend? We'll get thoughts on that next round. but the point for round two goes to Jedmishu, one to one. Well done. Mike, can I make a brief request? I would be honored. Casey, can you hit the breaking news sound bite again, please?

Whoa. Breaking news. Bo Nickel, minus 1,800 favorite opening line over Jamie Pickle. Oh, my God. Wow. Just saw that and felt we should put that out there as a little book into our bow-nickel conversation. Minus 1,800? Yeah.

Open? Wow. Opening line. It's tough. Wow. That is the tough line. So if I'm Jamie Pickett, I'm staying off like every, I'm staying off the internet until December 11th at this point.

Sheesh. Good strategy. Yes. A lot of M.A. this weekend. We have, I think, one at a card earlier, might still be going on. I'm not sure. One on Prime Video 2 is tomorrow. That's Zhang Jingnan versus Angel Lee. That's a great main event. We have UFC Vegas 61 on Saturday. And then a few hours later, Bellator 286 begins. BKFC has a card, tons of events this weekend. And you can cover it all and find out everything going on in

MAAfighting.com. But, Jedd, you know where I'm going here. It is a great website. Let's just say, you can only watch one of these cards. Your internet is out, and you can't go to MMAFighting.com, great website to see what is going on with the rest of the night's festivities. What's the one? Which one are you watching?

I think the answer is Bellator. I will say, before I talk about why Bellator is better, I will say that coming into this week, I thought Bellator was much, much better. And I still think this UFC card lacks a lot of reasons to watch. Like there's not a big pull there. But a lot of those fights are really competitively matched or at least offer something that might be interesting.

So that card got better as I dug into a little more. But this Bellator card, look, we bag on Bellator a lot. And when I say we, I mean me, because I bag on Bellator all the time because they deserve it. But here's the thing I will say in their defense. This year, maybe wasn't great for them promotionally. I don't have their books. I don't really know how that works. but every card they have put together,

but for the Dublin card, which was pretty weak on paper, but that was also Dublin, and that card went over gangbusters, certainly in the arena and stuff. So I think they knew that they didn't have to, they didn't have to go to their fastball for that location, right? Every other card they've made this year has been really good

because they aren't putting on, they're not trying to match the volume of the UFC like they did two years ago. You know, pre-COVID, they were putting on cards all the time and those cards they only have so much talent I mean their rankings are obviously not the only rankings that matter the enemy fighting global rankings

but you'll look at their rankings and you can see like God love Melvin Manhoof an absolute legend of the sport like one of the most exciting fighters who's ever lived he shouldn't be ranked in anybody's late heavyweight division

and he was like a top seven or eight dude for them like they don't have the bodies to justify doing cards as often as they were this year they are doing far are fewer of them. And it's paying off because the cards we are getting are like this one. The main event is a very quality main event. I think Adam Borick is a great fighter. I'm really excited about this matchup because I think there is a possibility that Patricio Pitbull, you know, that maybe we saw his last great performance. It won't surprise me at all if he's still got the juice,

but I can absolutely see a world where the narrative looks like in six months to a year. Oh, Patricio's last great high was the AJ rematch. He looked phenomenal and then that was it. Then everything kind of tailed off after that. And Adam Borks is a stud. One loss in his career, he's fought really good dudes in Bellator. Like, this dude is, this kid is a stud. So that's a great headliner.

The co-made event, you're still getting AJ McKee, lightweight debut. The fight's probably not going to be that competitive, but Spike Carlisle's a good fighter. This will be fun because AJ McKee is damn fun to watch. And then up and down, you've got really competitive matchups. Enrique Barzola, I almost forgot Aaron Pico is going to do his thing against another guy who's pretty solid in Jeremy Kennedy. Like your top five fights at Bellator are like very good.

And then even your undercard, some of it's not there because sometimes Bellator does, but sometimes Belator does really bad stuff. They've like got oh and no guys debuting. This undercard, JJ, or CJ Hamilton, JJ Wilson's on it. You've got, I'm looking at it now. Max Rothoff, Mike Hamill is a pretty good fight. Like up and down. This is just a very solid top to bottom card from Bellator. And it's really well worth your time to get young guys on the come up, a title fight that matters, good fights on the main card.

Like it is a comprehensive solid card where ZOC card has some fun matchups, but let's be honest, maybe two of them really, quote unquote, matter, right? There are only a couple of fights on this card that have the possibility of us being like, oh, that was. really relevant to the division when we're talking about this stuff at the end of the year. So better card than I thought for the UFC. I still think Bellator has the best thing going on this weekend. Phoenix, do you agree? Belator has the best card this weekend. I do agree, but I do not want to ignore the fact that this is also a very good one card

and that people shouldn't just ignore this one. Coming from somebody who my pedigree was kickboxing in Muay, the girls on this one card are must-see TV. So even if you don't watch it that night and you watch it the next day on Amazon Prime Video, watch it. Angela Lee, this is a rubber match. I'm going to mess up that poor girl's last name,

the girl Jan that she's fighting. Their trilogy back-to-back is just exciting and explosive. And then there's Anisa, a meskin. I don't know if you guys have ever seen her fight before, but she was in glory. Also super, super impressive. And she's taking on a WBC Moitai champion as well. So the girl fights on that card.

I'm not missing that. I'm not missing that card. Not missing that one card. So I'm going to watch that as well. But Bellator has a great card this weekend. Like I'm excited about all four of those top four fights. I'm a big fan of Juan Archiletta. I think his fight with Barzola is going to be really fun.

They both have a lot of skills. They both have great cards. and they both put on a lot of pressure. Then Aaron Pico, again, this is like one of those things of watching a star develop. He's evolving, he's developing. Jeremy Kennedy, I don't know if he's going to have the ability to deal with what Aaron Pico supplies in terms of pressure,

but he does have good ground and pound. AJ McKee, Spike Carlisle, I mean, AJ's just a lot smoother. I feel like this fight is like welcome to 155. But this is also to kind of see where AJ's heads at. And then what's going to happen with this 155 tournament is AJ going to be super motivated to stay at 155 and get involved with that? What are we going to see from AJ? I think that's a big part of what the narrative for that fight is.

Even though I don't think I don't think Carlisle's ranked. I know I'm talking about rankings a lot. And that doesn't even matter in the world. That's right. And then Borix and Pitbull, Borix is a stud. I'm excited to see this one. It's good to see like what Pitbull. can do against this sort of young

sort of up and comer even though he is kind of seasons he takes the back really well he's got a lot of diversity in the striking so this could be a super super fun main event so all four of those and then there's like people on the undercard that are pretty good like he only he's he's won there's like some of my

old LFA and CFFC guys are going to be on this card that I'm familiar with that they're fun fighters they're tough everybody's a gamer so this could be a really good card so I will flip back and forth and watch a little bit of the UFC because, of course, I care about the main event to see where that's going to lead the girls and what's going to happen there. And then the one card, the one card's like, if you're a martial arts nerd and you want to see really good kickboxing and really good female MMA, like you're going to tune into that. It's going to be a good, a good time. Yes, I agree.

Bellator has the best card. It's good. I actually was on a show called The Bellator Zone with my man, Marcel Dorf and Santiago. previewing this card and you know I had to say some things on behalf of Bellator and I had to say some things because I like Bellator and I want them to do things as best as they possibly can. So I'm probably the most critical person that has ever appeared on their show, but it's all out of love. But they brought up an interesting point because, and I want to start with you on this, Phoenix, because Santiago was hosting said that the main event, the featherweight title fight between

Patricio Pitbull and Adam Borch is the most interesting in the biggest fight on the card, the most intriguing matchup on the card. And why I like this fight and why I like this card so much is that might not even be the case. Like the main event is there and there's a title and the buzz and the bright lights. It's all good. But when you look at the storylines attached to the rest of this main card, especially the co-made event and the featured fight, do you, like in your personal opinion, is the title fight the most intriguing fight on the card?

I think so because of Pipples' reign and because of Borex to, and his striking and what we've seen that he's able to do. You know, you've got somebody who's, who's got a good range and he's got good speed. And then we got people who's like, you know, he is talking about changing weight classes and clearing out his division and things like that. And then he's coming off the high of beating AJ. So there's intrigue. And I think stylistically, seeing the two match up is what people are really interested in. It's like, what does Borix really have? Like, what's the test here for him? What's the test here for people. So yeah, I mean, even if it's a stinker, you've got like three other fights happening

right before them from really talented fighters. So either way, I think it's a good, a good look for Bellator. And that's where I do agree with Jed, not having so many fights so that when you do have fights, they're really quality cards that get us talking about the matchups and the skill of each individual fighter rather than, well, this guy's really old, but we're familiar with him. and he's fighting someone that we like kind of know like those aren't good stories you know we wind up watching it because we want to see what our old friends are up to as opposed to like this matchup's really good against this matchup because when we talk about the people brothers we usually talk about them as the best that belatar has right so now that we're talking about somebody else

that has a good pedigree that is a good fighter and that's up against them and it's an individual it's not a ufc old timer or anything like that it's just our a fighter that's homegrown Bellator type of situation, those are good. I mean, I know Spike Carlisle is an old UFC guy, but I'm talking about the main event. And I think that's important as Bellator creates more quality within their fighters and within their divisions, even if they have less fights, they have better cards, it gets a deeper conversation. And, you know, rankings, whatever. But that is really important where you start to take it look at individual people's skill levels and how they match up.

and that's what makes for good competitive fighting in general. Jed, what do you think? Because to me, I have more questions about the co-main event and the Aaron Pico fight than I do the main event. Yeah, I just, I don't know. What questions do you have about the co-made event? I mean, is 155 the right place for him?

Is Spike Carlos pays too crazy for him? Is this where he's supposed to be? Will he flow right into this Grand Prix that they're putting together? but I think I actually have more questions about Aaron Pico fighting Jeremy Kennedy than I do anything else honestly like that to me is the most intriguing fight on this car because if Aaron wins he's getting a title shot like that this is it this is the get over the hump fight and I feel like any other time he's gotten these like big pressure situational

fights he either comes up a little bit short or he gets knocked out he gets a little reckless in there but I feel like where his head is at right now can he get over that hump and if he does he's fighting for the belt neck so i think i have the most questions about that fight but i don't know like maybe the main event is in your eyes the most intriguing fight on the car to me i do have questions about the other ones and i feel like the spotlight especially with the being of long beach patricio's going to get booed out of the building which is going to be really interesting but what do you think like is the main event to you if you could only watch one fight in this card are you watching the main event or are you picking a

different fight i'm picking the main event and here's why I have no real questions about AJ McKee and Spike Carl out. He's going to win this fight. And I think that 145, and he's one of those guys where it doesn't matter. He's just that good. He can compete at either weight class. If 145 is becoming too difficult for him to make the cut, which he's alluded to, I don't know how true that is versus that's the thing that was said in the aftermath of losing.

You know, it could be either way. But I have no questions that he is going to do very. well at 155, and I suspect he's going to stay what with this new lightweight tournament that just got announced yesterday on the MMA hour, great program on the MAA Fighting YouTube channel, make sure you're there if you're listening to this after the fact and not watching live on YouTube now. So yeah, I got no questions about Aege McKee. I have some questions about Aaron Pico, but I feel pretty confident that all the stuff

you talked about and alluded to, that's going to be in the past for him. Aaron is a guy, and this touches to the earlier conversation we were having Bo Nickel. He was the best prospect in M.MA once upon a time. And he did get rushed a little bit, and we saw what happened. And he faltered, he stumbled. And I think he has clearly overcome that. You hear him talk. You hear the things he says.

He admits that some of this was too much too soon, and it was a development and a growth process. I think he's there. I think he is locked in and ready to rock. And Jeremy Kennedy, very, very good fighter. is going, is going to be outclassed in this one. And then, yeah, he gets the next title shot. And then we're off to the races and see what happens in that regard. I have real questions about the main event.

I think it's the most intriguing because I think the stakes are the highest. And that always adds a level of intrigue here. And I think this is a really competitive fight. The betting lines have it a lot closer than I would have thought, honestly, given all Pitbull has done in his career. But it just shows that people are giving borks the respects you deserve. because like I said off the top, I think this kid is really good.

And I think there's, I don't know how much juice pit bull has left. He has been fighting for a long time. And at some point, the bill comes due. And maybe he still got the gas in him. But maybe coming into a crowd that's incredibly hostile coming off,

arguably the biggest win of his career, probably is Michael Chandler just because of what it is. But that's the way he won that fight after losing so badly in the first time to AJ, like that is a, that's a weight off the shoulders kind of win. And so maybe coming into this against a guy who is really good, but still nobody talks about Adam Borch really. I don't think, I think I maybe have him like ranked 15 in the MA fighting global rankings.

I do too. He's not, he doesn't get the love that I think he probably deserves. I have a lot of questions on what Pitbull is going to look like. And if Borick's getting this big step up, is, it. Is this where he is going to manifest himself and say, I have arrived and I've arrived in the biggest stage possible. And then we go from there. Like there are more questions for me in the main event than anything else. And it has the biggest stakes.

It is my most intriguing fight of the whole weekend, basically. And just to wrap, I do agree with what Phoenix said earlier. The one championship card is awesome. That main event is a sick, sick trilogy fight. I would still pick this Bellator fight over it. but that's probably my number two on fights this weekend that I'm interested in watching. Well, that is Bellator. It is a good card.

And because we're having these types of conversations, that just shows you how good the card is when there's lots of intriguing fights on a main card. And that's something that Bellator doesn't do all that often. Even the prelims have a lot to talk about as well. It's a perfect Bellator formula. Fights with stakes, intriguing prospects, squash matches, competitive prelims. We got it all. So let's head to Las Vegas.

We'll talk UFC Vegas 61. The point for round three goes to the very dapper Jedmishu. It is two to one. You might have officially sold me on that Bellator main event being the most intriguing fight of the entire weekend. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus,

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You gift the good stuff. So the UFC is back. We had a week off last week. And they're coming back with UFC Vegas 61 at the apex. Main event is a pivotal one at 115 between McKenzie Dern and Janjohn. We'll discuss that in a moment. But I would be nervous if. if we didn't start here because we found out earlier this week that this card, this event,

will be close to the public, no fans, no family members outside of corners, no media, and there are theories. There's rumor and innuendo. Mark Zuckerberg's name has been thrown around quite a bit. Dana White said all of that was a bunch of quote-unquote bullshit. Who the hell knows what's going on? But, Jed, I'll start with you. What do you think about the UFC shutting this card down to the public and the media,

especially since this card, let's be honest, is not all that great and we're trying to potentially get some of these fighters over, but there's no media there to help get them over. I don't care. It is at least an interesting thing just because this has never happened before, so that makes it by definition somewhat compelling and different,

but like it's all just whatever. I thought honestly the best thing that's come out of this is the Bellator tweet yesterday that was like, hey, media in Las Vegas, if you suddenly find yourselves free on your Saturday evening, come to Long Beach, it's not that far away, we've got plenty of space for you. It's one of the few times Bellator's done something that was unequivocally brilliant. So props to the social media guy for that one. This is, whatever the reason this is happening, it's happening. And this is, it would be more interesting to me if this was happening. for like Dana White is mad at the media because they killed the sport or whatever thing,

that would at least be like a more compelling narrative. But it seems that the rumor in innuendo certainly just suggests that what actually happened is Mark Zuckerberg gave them a big bag of money so he could have private access, which is like a thing that billionaires do when they want to go to an event. That just raises the question why this one, because like, I don't know, I don't have a super high opinion of Mark Zuckerberg. but like no disrespect to the wonderful men and women fighting on this weekend's card. If I was buying out an event to watch, it wouldn't be this one.

I would just, you can, he has enough money to buy out UFC 280 and be the only dude in Hettyhot Arena. Like that seems like a way better use of your time and energy to me than this random apex card or whatever. But I don't know. It's, this storyline has had very little legs for me because it's just like, well, that's a weird thing. but like, okay, you guys probably are not helping your case just because any media is going to help you when you have probably the third worst card of the fight weekend, but it's whatever.

What did you think about this, Phoenix? Do you think anything about it? At first it was like, it was like one of those big mysteries. What is Fight Island? What was in Otman and Zatar's bag? Where was Dana White during Francis and Ghanu's heavyweight title fight against Cyril Ghan? and now where

why is this event closed off to the public? Is it Zuckerberg? Is it not? What did you think of this whole thing? I don't know. I think that'd be hilarious, though, if Zuckerberg's just sitting there in a lounge chair with like two other people and a soda,

just fight for me peasants or whatever. But I don't think that's what it is at all. I think it's probably some type of technology testing for the metaverse or something along those lines where they don't want media or any like NDAs having to be signed and things like that. I just feel like it probably has to do with, some level of technology or something that they're testing out.

And they're not going to test it out on like a high stakes card. So this is kind of the perfect card to test that out. And this, again, this is just me theorizing because I just don't see a world. I mean, not that Mark Zuckerberg doesn't have the money to do it. But if you had the money to do it, you do it while Israel Adasanya or somebody was in front of you. You know what I mean? Or you've got like a McKenzie Dern finish with them, which I'm sure plenty of people do. Right.

Like so I don't know. I think a lot of it has to do with the technology and how things are changing. And, you know, I'll give the UFC a lot of credit. They've been on the pulse of a lot of things that have changed within the space of sports, getting big deals for MMA, the constant surge of changes that happen. So this could be a good thing in terms of how things are going to be shot or where they're seen or whatever they're trying to test out. And maybe Facebook does have, you know,

or social media does have a big hand in that. Remember, when they made the deal with WEM, I, I,MG, it was about, like, expanding into technology and into entertainment. So it could be something really cool, and we'll just have to find out. Yeah, I love Dana's tweet of we did not, he did not rent out the arena, but it's very possible the UFC just, like, invited him in to test this stuff. So it's still a possibility, but. Yeah.

Also, it's possible Dana lie because Dana lies. He could just lie. But like, I think Phoenix is right. This probably is a tech thing. And that's like the lamest of all outcomes here. Because like, it's just sucks. It's just going to be one, the metaverse is lame. And if it was so cool, you wouldn't be going to live events.

More importantly, I bet Dana didn't have to rent it out to him because I bet they just offered him. Because then what will happen is Zuckerberg will then cut a deal with the UFC that again, the fighters will get no part of. So it's just another way for the UFC. to leverage the fighters into getting more money for the WME, IME, I'm sorry, the endeavor, the endeavor people now. So the only outcomes you are bad. Like none of the things happening are cool. Yeah.

Well, let's talk about what's going to happen, even though I don't know who's going to be there to watch it. Main event, Jedmishu. We got McKenzie Dern, Janjan, on. UFC has been very high on McKenzie Dern, ever since she came over. She's probably a win away from a title shop before she lost a Marina Houdreke had the close fight with Tisha Torres. A lot of people thought Tisha won that fight.

Jaunan was in a similar type of situation and then got run over by Carlos Sparza in her chance to possibly get to a title fight. And then she was on the wrong end of a trip to Splitty City against Marina and her most recent fight. So there are stakes here, Jed, because we get two ranked fighters,

but how high are the stakes here? That's a great question. It's going to depend on a couple of things. one does mcinsey darn make weight that is just always an ever-present question with her uh that could dictate things the other straw weight is really in a weird spot because carlo asparza had that awkward win over rose like it seems like they're going to do the rose or the the carlo wiley thing and then what happens because wiley has lost twice to rose does rose get back in the picture is that performance so bad that she has just kind of moved

out of it or they ask her politely to go try and fight Valentina Shepchenko. Like, I don't know where's going with that. Marina Rodriguez still deserves a title fight, but probably is like six fights away from it because no one cares about her. And so like a win here could theoretically propel Dern into a position because the UFC is so high on her. She needs to make weight and she needs to win. And winning is no guarantee.

Like it's a there's a lot of people are picking out. If you listen to No Betts Bard, me and Connor Burks talk about this fight extensively. One of us picks one way. One of us picks the other. I'm just going to make you go listen to it to figure out which is on which side here. But there's a lot at play. And for Yan, it's the same thing to a lesser extent. If she loses this, she probably really falls outside ever making a real title run just because

of how deep this division is and kind of where she's at in regard to this. but if she gets the big win over, Dern, she's not going to get a title fight off of it, but that is going to put her in position to maybe fight somebody else for a title shot. Maybe she gets a Rose fight next. Maybe that's, maybe Marino does finally get to get her title shot, and maybe they make Rose fight one more time,

and Jan gets an opportunity there. Like, there are winning here puts her in great position to fight for a belt in two fights from now. Dern may be a win. She can sneak in there now. So there's a lot of stakes in this main event, and the fight's not that bad. So, like, there's stuff going on here. Phoenix, what do you think?

What are the stakes here? Who needs this one more? Dern or Janjan? Jan does because she's already on a two-fight losing streak, and she's already lost to Carla, so she needs to keep herself afloat, at least, like, within this division. But I'm 100% with you add that Marina Roddy Hagriguez is the one who really deserves the next title shot.

And I think that McKenzie Dern is smart about this and knows that she shouldn't just jump right there. And she shouldn't jump right there. She's like, what, number seven? So she'll probably fight once or twice more before she gets that title shot. And it really is good again as we have continued with the theme of athlete development. If you listen, I'm a, you know, I train and I have a sports science background. So I listen to certain things that maybe sometimes people don't pick up on looking at her right now. She's totally going to make weight.

I would be shocked if she doesn't. Her body fat is lower in general. Sometimes with fighters, they have a higher body fat percentage. They're not as lean so that they count so much on water. So with women, there's a lot of tons of water fluctuations. Like we could fluctuate water four to five pounds in like a day. That's how crazy it is for women in general. So she looks leaner in general. So I think that she's probably cracked her code in terms of where she needs to be with her weight. And looking at how she looks this fight week, it looks like she's, she's, there she's good before she had just a higher body fat percentage like while she wasn't wasn't cutting so i think she's making weight the second thing is like hearing her talk she's talking about being

meaner quote unquote which means that the way she's training is to get you in a position and change you faster so it's almost like speed chess you know rather than like jihitsu competitions where you're kind of waiting and baiting i think she's looking to get you in a position and submit you like immediately and she still doesn't necessarily have the striking she's talking about things that are like level two in terms of what you learn when you're striking. Like, what do you do when you're in a, just start striking? You just, you'll see fighters like when they only have like between five and ten fights, they just run forward because they know techniques of how they've hit pads.

And then as fighters get more experience, they talk about cutting the ring off. They talk about setting traps. They talk about those things. So she's starting to talk about those things. So her striking's evolving, evolving, but it's not necessarily there yet. So if the UFC is smart and she's smart with her career, She's looking to play speed chest with this girl who's relatively more of a striker. And this girl is looking to prove that she has corrected her wrestling since the Carl S. Barsas fight.

So it's really going to be interesting to see how they combine. Like as journalists, right, what's the interesting question we ask? What's your strategy going into this fight? Then the fight happens and you see what happens. You go, what was the strategy going in? And how did that change once you got into the octagon? So that's going to be interesting to have those conversations with these two ladies. Like, were you looking to wrestle more because you need to get better at that because you lost to Carl S.

Baza? Were you looking to have better striking? Were you looking to bait? Or were you looking to set up your takedowns off your strike so that you could have an immediate submission? Because that's what you talked about. So that does make this fight interesting for me as a fight nerd. And yeah, this could be a lot better than we expect. What a tremendous answer.

with you, Phoenix. I don't think that the weight cut conversation is really in play anymore. I think McKenzie's answered those questions. It's been a while ever since she had the child. She has, she's just ripped up now. She is low BMI. She hasn't really even struggled on the scale since the last time she missed. So we'll move on. We are running out of time. The points for round four goes to it goes to Phoenix. We are all tied up. It is two to two. Of course, this is bound to happen. And that means it is time for the knockout round. One question. Well, not really.

We have to do it my way here because I am a game show host after all. Each participant will have one minute to answer said question. And then when it's all done, you're going to quickly vote in the poll on who you think wins. And then we'll bring on E. Casey Liden to render the final decision. So Jed, we are going to give you the option here. I don't get the option. The champ gets the option. She never lost a bell in the game.

I don't get the choice here. I'm going to give you one option, though. We have the category we're doing is called, what the hell are we doing here? And we have two doors to open. You can open door number one or door number two. Number two, my lord. Okay.

So Phoenix, you have the prerogative. Do you want to go first? Do you want Jed to go first? I've been a not around and Jed has been working his ass off. So let Jed go first. That's fair. All right, Jed. So you have opened door number two. Phoenix will take door number one. The category is what the hell are we doing here? We have found out yesterday, officially,

that the PFL finale is going down November 25th, Hulu Theater, Madison Square Garden. There's lots of fights. There's two more coming. Lots of five rounders. We got Kayla Harrison, Larissa Pacheco is the main event. But that's not what everybody's talking about, Jed. Where everybody's talking about is really two things. One, they just, decided to put together Shane Burgos and Marlon Marais for this card. But more importantly than that, the topic that most people are talking about more than that is that this will not be on ESPN Plus. This will not be on ESPN2 or ESPN News.

It's going to be on pay-per-view for a price TBD. What the hell are we doing here, Jed? One minute on the clock, PFL going to pay-per-view. Your thoughts. Your time starts now. In one phrase, screw in the pooch. That's what we're doing here. Look, I understand.

Fighters, fight promotions love the idea of pay-per-view because they see the UFC making it their business model and they say, give me some of that sweet, sweet money. But that's just not what's going to happen here. We were talking internally about this the other day. I don't know what the price points at. And that's going to dictate some of the buys here. But it doesn't matter if this thing is $5. They aren't selling $100,000 pay-per-views of a $5.

dollar pay-per-view. So what are you doing? My big issue here is look at the opportunity cost. This card is good. Everything they're doing, I even like Maraisa Spurgo's. I understand why you wouldn't. This card is how you get people to like your product. Get it to as many people as possible. You have an ESPN deal. Leverage that and say here. You can build on this because doing a one-off pay-per-view, this is not the start of a pay-per-view empire. They're going to sell 20,000 of them, make minimal dollars, and all for nothing. So that's where I don't know what to do. We're screwing the pooch.

Mike, we're screwing the pooch. All right. So Phoenix, you're open door number one. You are reacting to Hamzaa Tchamayev's week because he has been on Twitter. Last week he said, 185 got the MMA world going crazy. And then yesterday he comes out and says,

Colby Covington next, which is not going to happen at 185. Now he's teeter tottering. We're going back and forth here. Of course, we cannot forget what happened earlier this month seeking of screwing the pooch drop the bag for nate dyes still won his fight still a very interesting story but what what the hell are we doing here phoenix what are we doing are we doing 170 we do in 185 what do you think you should do go get your ass nutritionist because

the colby covington fight is the fight to freaking make not only skills wise is that the guy for you to fight but funny wise is that that the guy for you to fight. Can you imagine the dumb ridiculousness that's going to go back and forth between the two of them? Like it's villain versus villain in a way, right? Like they're going to say stupid things. Here's the thing for Hamzot. If COVID was a factor and that's why you have an issue with weight that because long COVID affects your cardio and you're not able to do certain things in the conditioning, get yourself to the PI. If I had a PI, I would be there right now getting some help. If it's also a matter of your stardom took off and you're having a hard time

controlling yourself, get yourself a therapist and come back to because that Colby Covington fight is something that every single person wants to see. I don't care how you feel about Covington. You want to watch him fight and you want to watch him fight Hamza. There you go. What the hell are we doing here? I believe that's what we called it. Right. What the hell are we doing here? So, okay, you have heard, now vote we're not going to give you as much time as we normally do uh because phoenix's got to get out of here and i want to respect that so hurry up you got like 30 seconds to cash your vote so go go go go go uh we're supposed to have a preview show tomorrow we'll let you know when that's going to

happen i will say this the beginnings of hurricane ian have come to the low country here in south carolina there are certain points during this program where we almost lost power it started flickering but the MMA gods have shown upon us. They have shined down and said the power can go out at like 215 Eastern. Okay? We're not going out now. We have to crown a champion.

So, and then we'll obviously have lots going on Saturday with all these different cards, people's pre-fight show, post-fight shows, all that stuff. So with that being said, I think we have wasted enough time. Casey, there he is. Sun's out, guns out. He's got the Invicta shirt on.

We do have a new. and Victor champ. Oh, what a great finish this thing. That was nasty. Yeah. That was nasty. Yeah. That was super awesome.

We have a winner. We have a winner. All right. Oh, boy. Who gets it done? The undisputed BTL title. The stakes here were bigger than the main event for the UFC. Oh, my God.

I got to give like 10 more seconds. Oh. It's okay. I'm already late, so it's. Okay, okay. Here it goes. Our winner and still undefeated Phoenix Carnival. Oh, man, she gets a ton.

The people have spoken. Phoenix still undefeated. Don't worry. And once again. It was so close. What were the totals? Phoenix, 51% of the votes. Damn.

50. Wow. When I said voting was done, I was ready to say Jed Mishu. But in those last 10, 15 seconds, it all switched. It was because it was like, it was like 52% for Jason. No, we're going to be like Davidson. I was ready. I was ready.

And Brandon Rito. And Tetrology around the corner. This is unfortunate because I need like a permanent job in MMA so I could be around more often. And then Jed and mine will just go at it consistently. But I have to juggle seven jobs. If I did it, I would be here more. Yeah. Phoenix, any final words?

I know you're late. We want to let you go, but anything else you want to say before we let you go. MMA fighting is awesome, and I love being on the show with you guys. Jed is an amazing competitor, and I will hope to be back soon. And Jed, you know, maybe you wear your prom dress next time. Oh, wow. Insult to injury, Jed. feel.

In the famous words of Daniel Cormier, after he got knocked out by John Jones, I guess it's not a rivalry if I never win. I've had a great time, Mike, and I'm going to break some news. Oh, no. I'm going to take off the headset. You know, I can't, I can't beat her. She's the best that's ever been. And I'm only in this game to be the best.

And if I can't be the best, then I don't know if I, want to be in the game. So I think this is it. I think I'm retiring from the BTL Cage. No. I'll do respect to the greatest that ever was. Phoenix Carver. I mean, this is M.MA.

This is M.MA. Jed will be, Jed's going to come out of retirement and then he's leaving. He's literally gone. Yeah. Now I'll see him next week. All right. Cue the violins and then you could hit the,

hit the music, Casey. You could hit the music. And we'll just leave you with this vision of an empty microphone, an empty chair, and some fight posters. But congratulations to Phoenix Carnivali, the undisputed BTL champion. For Jedbysh's living room, Phoenix Carnivali, I am Mike Heck, Casey on the ones and twos. The iconic voice of Estherlyn takes you home. We'll see you back here next week on Between the Links. Good night, everybody.

This has been Between the Links, a MMA finding production. Jed, we love you. Happy trails. He still said love you guys from the other room. That's amazing. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.