MMA Fighting - BTL | Cain Velasquez Sentenced, Jones vs. Aspinall Latest, Gambling Suspensions, UFC Mexico City

Episode Date: March 27, 2025

Former UFC heavyweight champion found out his legal fate earlier this week as he was sentenced to five years — minus time served — after pleading no-contest stemming from his arrest in February 2022. Now that the sentenced has been handed out, was a it small win all things considered? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel reacts to Velasquez's sentence, whether it was a win or loss, and if it does anything to his legacy overall. Additionally, they'll discuss the latest updates on Jon Jones vs. Tom Aspinall — from both UFC CEO Dana White and Aspinall — Sean Brady delivering a lopsided performance against Leon Edwards at UFC London, where both fighters go, Jeff Molina and Darrick Minner getting multi-year suspensions for infractions stemming from the James Krause gambling scandal, Saturday's UFC Mexico City card, and much more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew. Follow Mike Heck: @m_heckjr Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I got a great deal on a great gift at Winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss?

Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard? At these prices, could I find something for everyone at Winners? Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From M.M.A. Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL.

Happy Thursday to us all. Happy you can join us. For another live version of the program, they're always live here. But back to the Q&A format. We're going to do that again this week and next week. then heading into UFC 314. That's when we turn the page. Brand new season of BTL, more battles to take place on this year program. New guests, new people joining the show. It's going to be very exciting. But we want to hear from the peeps for the next couple of weeks because there's a

lot to talk about this week in joining me to discuss all of this news and answer your questions is Mr. No Gray area himself, the hot take kid, the greatest climber of all time, the one and only Jed Mishu from MMAfighting.com. Hello, Jed. Hey, Mike. How are you doing? Doing well. Background looks a little different here.

I am, you know, it's spring. Actually, is it officially spring? Surely we've hit the Equinox. That must have occurred at some point. So spring, doing some changes, building a separate office space from the one I'm normally in. It'll be, you know, a little less background noise

for stuff and just, a little more studio E is the goal. So we're not there yet, but kind of just have at least a good enough backdrop to be working off of. And, you know, excited to talk about a whole bunch of stuff that's been happening, Mike.

Yes. Dare I say command center 2.0 for you? Honestly, yes. That's sort of the goal here. To be a little bit bigger, a little bit better, you know, office space 2.0. You have the command center.

I have the hollow deck. trying to think of what would be other than a command center this is not the bridge you are the captain of this ship Mike I am you know I'm I'm I'm commander Sulu you know all right can I be Scottie? Can I be Scottie? Yeah you absolutely absolutely what's Scotty's line I can't see me up well actually that's not his line that is what they say anymore

I thought I know don't have the power That's all I got. That's all I got. Yes, we're getting a little off track here. But Casey, come on in with the no sleeves because we are here to answer the questions of our fine viewing audience. But a number of things, of course, we had the big news about Kenny Velasquez. We're coming off of UFC London and some big changes in the welterweight division after Sean Brady just runs over Leon Edwards.

We have the update, I guess, the non-update. update from Dana White about John Jones versus Tom Asphenol. And UFC's in Mexico City. There's boxing that was dirty that happened this past Saturday. I mean, there's all sorts of things we can discuss. So take it away, Casey.

What do the peeps want to talk about? Let's just do it. Let's get into it. Let's go. Yes. Joseph, does the panel think all things considered Kane got a good deal? He was sentenced to five years time served. So I already discussed this on

camera with the great Damon Martin. He joined me in the immediate aftermath of all of this. We both sort of agreed that this sentence outside of getting nothing was about as good as we could expect. But Jed, you are as others have called you, the legal eagle of the MMA media space and MMAFighting.com, a terrific website. Great website. It's a great website. Let's get your, I know you sort of touched on it on your mailbag column, but now you're on camera. You're here. The people are watching you right now. Your reaction to this, did Kane get a good deal in your opinion? Kane should be extremely enthused by this deal. I think this is the best deal he could have hoped to get. When this all started, whatever, 2022, so like three-ish years ago,

like my initial reaction was Kane's getting 10, you first time offender or whatever and he didn't actually end up killing anybody. But like, you can't do what Kane did. Like, you just can't do that. Like, even if he had, so were clear, because like, this apparently needs to be said because people who are high profile in this industry are, like, out here with the free Kane and Kane got a raw deal takes. And it's like, no. And Kane knows that that's not true because Kane has, like, since it has happened,

has been pretty open about, like, I've made some bad choices here. And I regret the decisions that were made. Because it's, you cannot, like, in the best case scenario, the accusations against this man are true. That feels weird to call that the best case scenario. But in the context of four Kane, he actually attacks his target appropriately, and his target is in fact guilty of the things being accused of. It's still not admissible for Kane to take the law into his own hands in this matter. The fact that that's not what happened at all and that this man is. guilty of nothing is still innocent, per the standards of our society, and that Kane endangered

a bunch of innocent people's lives and shot errantly into a vehicle with a gun and injured somebody else, like all of that is really, really bad for him. Ultimately, getting five is about what I thought he would walk away with. I thought he was doing 10, and he could probably half that with good behavior. Instead, he just got five, and that's going to end up being five, I think. Like, he's with the time served, he goes back in. He would probably be out next year. And that feels like the right answer for everybody, like for all parties involved, because Kane absolutely did something wrong.

And, you know, that is the price that you pay in our society for it. The same time, we would have to be heartless monsters not to at least acknowledge. So like, yeah, we get the impulse. Like, we understand why he did it. That doesn't mean we condone it, but we can't understand it. And he has shown contrition. He has done the right things in this regard. I think that this is just the, this is the right solution.

We got to the right place. It took us a little bit. But, you know, like, I don't think anyone would feel good if, as the prosecutors had asked for, he got 20 years. But it's all, like, it would be ridiculous for them to just let. him walk. Like this feels like the appropriate middle ground for what is a terrible situation. Yeah. And sort of how David and I laid this out right after the sentencing came in, you said it too. Next year he's probably out. He gets credit for several years of time served in all this. So I know there's some people saying he could be out as early as January if there's

good behavior sort of tacked on and put into play in this equation. So yeah, man, I think this is about as about as good as it could have gotten for Kane. Because you can tell the judge just based on reports, like didn't even want to sentence him, but he had to. And basically admitted, like, this is the lightest sentence we could possibly give him because we couldn't not put him in jail. We just couldn't. Dude went on an 11-mile high-speed chase after a vehicle, fired a weapon, hit somebody

that wasn't the guy who was trying to hit. That's just what happens here. And I think Kane would probably be pretty happy with the sentence as well, considering that the prosecution wanted 30 years to life for him. This is a pretty significant win all in all. It's a huge win. Because, yeah, like he, outside of, again, it's still not legal for him to attack the man, you know, Goulart,

who was accused of that horrible thing. It's super not legal to recklessly endanger the lives. of a whole bunch of other people in doing this. Like this is, and I said, we had some internal talks with some members of staff, like when this was all happening. And I was like, if I'm Kane, I'm pleading this out immediately. Because there's just like the extenuating circumstances are not going to really, they don't change the legality of the matter.

Because like, and like this is getting into the weeds and we don't have to get into it. but like, based on my understanding of this, his actions were premeditated. This was not like, I saw him in the streets and flew into a fit of rage and attacked him. It was, I waited for him and then chased him for 11 miles in a car with other civilians in it.

And that, like, you just can't do this. And so I was certain the whole time that Cain was going to plead this out because he wouldn't win. Like, if he just went to trial, he is, you never know, what a jury is going to do, but like it is low percentage that he wins. And if he took this to trial, he's getting like a minimum of 10. So pleading no contest, accepting the ramifications for your actions,

like all of this is the correct way to handle it. And again, five years, five years is not nothing. I'm not here to minimize five years in the American penitentiary system. Like our penal system is awful and terrible. But like, this is as good as he could have hoped for given what happened. And everybody should be relatively pleased with what's occurred here. Like, this is, I think this is justice. This is correct justice as far as this all goes out. Yeah.

And you have to, you have to think about it in this manner, too. When they arrested Galart and put him in jail, they could have just kept him there. They didn't have to, like, he got bail. and that's what's sort of the straw that broke the camel's back, and Kane just kind of taking vigilante justice upon himself, which as a father of myself, I could totally understand why he did that and the reasoning behind that. But if they just didn't grant bail to him

and just kept him in prison and kept him in jail until his trial, we wouldn't even be having this freaking conversation right now. We'd be having an entirely different one. So there's just different roads we can go down in regards to this case. but I think this is a gigantic win for Kane overall. Huge win. Huge win. And like he should have been given bail when he like getting,

having him out on bail. I think that the prosecutor actually argued against that, which was kind of lame. Because like he's not really a like an ongoing threat. Like I think that this all just played out as well as it could happen. Now I do think there is legitimately a really good question of how fair this is. just because Kane is famous. And this is not like a Kane specific issue, right?

This is the nature of the legal system in America. But I am not certain that a person in similar circumstances to Kane that is not a former professional athlete with friends in high places would have gotten things as well as he did. Maybe. And you'd certainly like to hope that that wouldn't play a factor. But I also think that there's certainly a little. little bit of that that helped him move along pretty well with this. Yeah. Plus the people at his back in all of this.

It's a very powerful people. So there you go. All right. Thank you, Mr. Boza. All right. You got some super chats. Ah, a super chat from the other week that got in late. But Mr. Tamvir, super chat.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. 20-dollar super chat, so much ice coffee. Thank you so much. I hope it's about EOC London. Damn it, it's not. With the Peyton Talbot and Frank Ocean relationship confirmed, would Tal would be the UFC's first openly gay fighter? How do you see this impacting his career,

given the conservative fighter base in upper management? I mean... I mean, he wouldn't be the first openly gay fighter. Yeah, not even close. There are many women who are gay. The U.S.C.'s first openly gay fighter was Liz Karmouche, wasn't it? I think that that is accurate because that was part of, I think that was part of the storyline.

Yeah. Like with the- That was the first team of fight and a male fighter had not come out at that time. Yeah. And so now he may be the first, if you were to come out, he might be the first openly gay male fighter. To my knowledge, Peyton Talbot hasn't come out. I am not an expert on this.

But like, that would be like a pretty big milestone for the sport. Yeah, that'd be awesome If he comes out if he if that's his choice I know Frank Ocean I think is openly bisexual That's all I really know I could not tell you two factoids about Frank Ocean Other than he's got a good name

It's a really strong name Is that his actual name? I'm pretty sure Yeah From Los Angeles Listen to any Frank Ocean Frank Ocean's amazing I've heard a Frank Ocean song or two

I've certain But like I just I don't know a single fact about him. Oh, that's right. Jose, we get the person that bring on if I want to talk about Frank Ocean. Frank Ocean is not his not his government name or not his born name. Maybe his government name. It's a state name. Frank Ocean's true name.

Yeah. And I don't, I knew there was some like some videos and some photos posted. But I have like I just Googled it. There's like no confirmation that they're together that I. I've seen. So I don't know. And if they are and they're happy, then power to him. It will probably boost his career because that's like famous people with other famous

people like that just ups your profile in a significant way. I don't look, I got a lot of, a lot of beef with the UFC brass for many reasons. I don't. I've never really gotten the vibe that they would be discriminatory against gay people. so I don't think that that it would impact him in any way. The fan base is absolutely another thing because there are a lot of people who aren't all that cool in the fan base. My guess is that it wouldn't turn into much.

They're not going to boycott Peyton Talbot because he may or may not be gay. They'll just tweet about stuff and be angry. And occasionally, Sean Strickland will say something that's entirely out of pocket and that'll be it. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Man,

but just to give me, if you guys don't know, Frank Ocean, it's like he, as far as like level, like he would be like a headliner at Coachella type of guy. Yeah. Like it's,

okay, I just, like I know of Frank Ocean. Oh, yeah, I'm aware of him as a person. I just, I could not tell you a thing about him.

This I don't, I don't really know a lot about most celebrities in general, but like, you know, I know that he is a, famous musician and has won Grammys. I highly recommend Frank Ocean. Thank you, Tanvir.

I have to think that it would be a win, like that it would be a net positive for Talbot. Outside of being the first openly gay male fighter in UFC history, which is, you know, like a... And the UFC, honestly. Milestone. Yeah, if the UFC actually, like, promotes this correctly or, like, uses this in a good way. Like, it's a victory for. them too. I feel like they wouldn't, but I don't think they'd neg it. But like he, that would just be good for his personal brand. I'm certain. Yeah. Because being attached to famous people always helps.

All right. Thank you, Timber. Um, all right. Super chat from Chase. Oh, wait. Frank Ocean was in odd future. I know odd future. Okay. Yeah, he was one of the members. Dude, I couldn't tell you who all was in odd future. I just know that there's Tyler creator and a Tyler, Vince. I can't remember all the names, I'm like three or four. But yeah, Frank was one of them. Homeboy. Ah, I forgot them off.

But yeah. All right. Let's go to this. I'm willing to bet that a third of the live viewing audience is here for this exact question and because Jed is here. After Dana and Tom's optimism, do you think we are any closer to getting the fight? John is not said a single word in this entire. saga and seems as if he's okay with walking way, have not compensated.

So if you have been living under a rock, you have no idea what we're talking about ahead of UFC London, Dana White didn't interview with TNT Sport and basically said, hey, the fight's done. We're just trying to get it signed. And I'm not, it's not done enough. It's done, but it's not done. But it's done to the point where we can announce it, a date, anything like that. We need to get things signed.

So I took away from this. We may have even taken a step back from all this. This was Dana's answer to kind of get people off their back. Tom Aspinnell shows up to UFC London, holds the duck, and has been talking about John ever since in different interviews. And the only thing we have seen from John Jones is him showing up at dirty boxing during the way-ins, him becoming a co-owner of dirty boxing. And during those way-ins, fans channing F. Tom Aspinall and John looking weird.

and uncomfortable up there as he is reacting to the fans chanting F. Tom Aspinall. So, Jed, you have been on, I don't care what anybody says. This fight ain't happening. Did Dana Tom Aspinall or anything else you have seen over the last six days convince you we are anywhere closer than we were a week ago from the UFC announcing that John Jones versus Tom Aspinall for the Unified Heavyweight Championship is going to be done? Nope. I will believe this win.

the cage door closes. Look, legitimately, an internal conversation was had where I saw that the Dana said the thing and I put it in there, it was like, this is not really news because Dana isn't saying anything. And then we're like, it's still news. You have to do it. I was like, okay.

I just like, Dana didn't say anything. Dana said, Dana, and this is, I'm paraphrased, I don't have the quote, where it's not signed yet, which is all you need to know. If the fight was real, it would be signed. That was it. If the fight is,

real, there would be blue paper, there would be a commitment to do this. The fight is not signed. Do not believe the fight is signed. Even when it gets signed, if it ever gets signed and they put posters up, don't buy it. Believe it when the cage door closes, because any number

of things could happen to prevent that from happening. John, if this fight was happening, John would be tweeting something stupid and shit with a shitting grin on his face. You know, about to see or whatever like shock the world some nonsense like if this fire was happening tom wouldn't be showing up to ufc london with a duck it's not happening guys like it just we got to move on because you're

going to spend so much energy wanting a thing that won't exist because no matter how much we want it the ufc is not going to pony up and pay for it to happen and that is the blocker the blocker is will the ufc offer john jones an amount of money where he will say eff it worth it And I will believe that when I physically see them touch gloves before punching each other in the face. Here's the exact quote. The fight is going to happen. It's just a matter of when now. Getting it signed and done, the fight will happen.

Dana goes on to say, quote, it's going to happen. It's done. It's done, but it's not done. Not done enough to sit right here now and announce it and give you a date. But the fight is going to happen. It's just a matter of getting it signed now. So then it's not done. If the fight's outside, it's not done.

What are we doing here? It's going to happen. It's just a matter of making it happen is a way to phrase what he said. It's going to happen. It's just a matter of making it happen. Like, I'm going to fold the laundry that's on my bed right now. I just got to do it. But I'm not.

I know I'm not. I don't have a date. I don't have a date. Yeah. I know that in my, I woke up this morning. I took the laundry out of the thing. I threw my bed.

I was like, if I put it on my bed, before I go to sleep, I will fold this laundry. and put it away. And that's a lie. It's a lie I told myself because I'm going to go about my day

and then I'm going to come home or whatever after I do dinner and I go to sleep and I'm going to walk into my bed and say shit. Well, throw all this laundry into the hamper and try again tomorrow. That's what's happening here. This John Jones, Tom Asmel,

is the clean laundry of fights. It's never getting folded. It's been in the basket so long you have to wash it again. like you're like you know what I just got to do it again buddy I've done that I have done that before we all have yeah there's clothes in the dryer

we took the load that's in the wash it's a kind of a small one we just added it to the stuff that's already in the dryer I'll try it again run the cycle again and then the next day because we don't want to fold it or we waited too long we just run the dryer cycle again we just do it again I'm convinced that half the reason people get married

is for like things like this. Because as a person living alone, there's nobody to make me like be an adult about my laundry. I can just leave it forever in the basket. And it's a bad, it's a bad look. It's a bad look for me, but I do it.

That's what this fight is. It's never getting done. Do you get to this point where you have the laundry on one side of the bed and you sleep on the other side of the bed? No, that feels like full D-Gen mode. I just put it in the basket. I do sometimes have too much laundry and it starts filling like overflowing.

And then once it leaves the basket and hits the ground, then it just goes in the dirty hamper to be entered into the cycle. It touched the lava. No, it's got. All right. Exactly. The floor is lava. The floor is indeed lava.

That might have been your best analogy since was leafy greens, the leafy greens. Honestly, I literally just thinking about it Because it is a stone true statement. There is a pile of launchover right now that I've just been for the past three days, been like, I'll get to that today. Nope. Shout out.

Shout out to my wife who just got home from traveling from work. And she's in the other room having lunch. And she heard everything that I said. Her text to me was more often the dishwasher, which is us just washing the dishes. and then if there's two or three dirty dishes or bowls, we just put it in there and run it again. So maybe it's the dirty dishwasher of fun. I understand that experience as well.

Love that. I have that experience less because I have like certain items that I use very frequently. And so I just need to watch like dish items that I need to wash more often. But I know that experience as well. Same, same. Oh yeah. We've all been there. We've all been there.

Shout out to Holly. Have you heard the theory of kitchens are all done wrong and really you're supposed to have two dishwashers two dishwashers yeah i like that one it's not a bad theory it makes a lot of sense it makes a lot of sense it's so much cabinet space yeah i would lose my mind uh big big cabinet industry they got to us yeah all right uh thank you chase that question was amazing i don't know that we really went on just let us to a place yeah we are so good yeah we are so good at doing that all right thank you much oh man so man so you're chat crazy today. All right, here we go. Love it. Bobby, Mike, did you know Ludwig Borga fought

Randy Couture at UFC 13? I did not know that. There is a dark side of the ring coming out on Ludwig Borga, which I'm very excited about. Any thoughts on Ryan Bader's next move? So, who is Ludwig Borga? So Ludwig Borga was a dark side of the ring, he's got to be a professional professional wrestler. He came into WWF in like the early 90s and became like they wanted to make him like one of the ruthless foreign heels, if you will. There was this wrestler named Tatanka. He was a Native American character and he was undefeated for so long and they brought Ludwig in, Ludwig beat him like in a cheating way and that was supposed to build him up to superstardom. But then like a few months later, he was just gone and no one knew why. And apparently there's just

just this incredible story about who he was before he went to WWF and who he was after his WWF run. And it is apparently a pretty wild story. And I did not know he fought Randy Cotaur UFC 13. So maybe that'll be part of the dark side of the ring. But I'm really looking forward to that one. About Tony Palm, which is his true name. First fighter from the Nordic countries to ever compete in the UFC.

So Gunner Nelson, U.S. You owe Ludwig Borga a beer. I don't know. Dead of gratitude. Pave the way. So Borga was in the WWF, I assume at the time. WWF, WWF, before he came to the UFC, correct? Had to have been.

Yes. Yes. Oh, man. So this whole time we were like, oh, Brock Lezor, seeing punk, it was always Ludwig Borga. He was the, I mean, I think it was 10. Cam Rock. Yeah, well, yeah. Well, no, but Ken was after, though.

You're right. Yeah, Ken came with USA to WWA. I mean, he was a pro wrestler in Japan, but as far as like kind of American. Yeah. I was just kind of. Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting.

So there will be no beers being purchased for or by Ludwig Borga, unless it is somewhere in the afterlife. He passed away in 2010 at the age of 47, and I'm sure there's a friggin story involved with that. But that is not. one of the big stories that has come out. Foughton rings a bunch too. Yeah, dude, dude was active. And it kind of makes sense. You see 13 was in Augusta, Georgia.

Shout out. Apparently that episode is dropping next week on Vice TV. So I will be certainly tuning into that. But we do not have a dark side of the ring about Ryan Bader. I probably don't think we'll have a dark side of the cage about Ryan Bader either. Maybe we'll have a damn they were good someday about him. Who knows? But Ryan Bader is a.

free agent, Jed Mishu, you shake your head, amicable parting of the ways between the former two-division Bellator champ and the professional fighters league. And you know what? Here's what's interesting about Ryan Bader. Ryan Bader didn't say anything on Twitter, didn't throw a fit, didn't say, hey, I've been waiting for a fight. He just quietly got what he wanted.

And he's out. And now he's a free agent. So, Jed, your reaction to PFL and Ryan Bader, breaking up, if you will, and if you had to guess, what is the next move for Ryan Bader in terms of his professional fighting career? I think Ryan Bader is going to end up going somewhere

that's not the UFC next. It's just, I mean, they could use him. Not that he's like awesome or even that interesting, frankly, at this point, but like he's got some level of the name so they could use that. It feels like they're just not. going to. That they're going to be like, eh, I don't, we don't need to be in the Ryan Bader business. You know, we already did that.

It's fine. You know where he's going. Like, where do you think he's going, Mike? Uh, I mean, look, can we, can we say the organization's name now? Because at least they were granted licensing to host events. So we've, we've gotten over the hump. Yeah, I'm just not going to be. And then, you know, I think.

Ryan Bader could be terrific in BKFC. Just as a big dude, just hitting people real hard. That'd be kind of fun for him to do that. That would be fun. I just, I don't think the O.C.'s going to be in the Ryan Bader business. But like, I feel like he, he must have a plan because otherwise he could just stick it out with PFL, right? Like, there's no reason to leave if he does not have a plan. I just don't, I mean, I guess GFL is the, if GFL is the, if GFL is the plan, you.

he is managed by people that are a lot dumber than I thought because whatever your thought like whatever your beliefs on Ryan Bader the man has been very good at get in the bag in his career like he has managed his career extremely well and that like he left the OC and made a just killing in Bellator for a very long time you know it seems to be doing really good at the business part of his career so this would be a huge error if the plan is I'm going to GFL because that's just not going to work long term So I don't know what his plan is, but more importantly, do any of us care? I will be frank, I do not.

I am far more interested in opening the can of worms that the Tony Holm thing did. Did you know that not only was Ludwig Borga an opponent of Randy Couture, he was the first opponent of Randy Couture. The first MMA fight of Randy Couture's career was against Tony Hall at UFC 13. and I will pay you 10 American dollars if you can tell me the main event of that event. And keep your money. Yeah. I care about Ryan Bader.

He's, isn't he a top 10 heavyweight? Especially with the UFC releasing like two of them recently? I don't even know if he is. Is he an art? I mean, he probably was. He was.

He was. Before the 18, I think the 18th, 18 month got him. But he was pretty sure at top 10 heavyweight. And isn't... Oh, yeah, 18 months. So I got him.

Fight. Fight more often, kid. Isn't PF? And is the PFO desperate for opponents for Francis? I mean, is this weird for the PFL to do this? Oh, I think, one, no. It is weird for them to do this because they just are getting rid of any fighter that people know on their organization. Corey Anderson was tweeting yesterday about being like, hey, I haven't fought in a year.

I don't really know what the hell you guys are doing. they're still just rocking on strong with mismanaging their talent. So shout out PFL, rep you forever. Or sorry, whichever side the PFL logo is on in this shirt. So it is weird, but they just don't need to do this, but they keep being like, oh, screw it, we'll do bad jobs. That'll be fine. I'm sure that won't hurt our long-term success by just making every fight or not

want to work with us. But he was never going to fight Francis. Like Francis has maybe two, three fights in the PFL. Like, Nimkov, Goldsov, I guess, theoretically, is in line since he won the heavyweight tournament most recently. Like, Bader is probably not in that consideration at this point, really. Yeah, and he got nuked by Henan Ferrer in like 20 seconds. So, like, he ain't getting the France's fight. There's like no, there is literally no.

I thought they were going to get to France. I don't know. I'm just, yeah, I mean, if he had beat, if he had beat Hannan, he probably would have got it. but that was like his only chance of getting it. So yeah, man, we'll see what happens. He'll probably do, I don't know, maybe he'll end up doing a karate combat, like, grappling match next or something, like something like something like Brennan Allen and Kyle Bahalio just did. I don't know. He ain't, I don't think the UFC goes anywhere near him.

No, enough for the price. I mean, if he wants to say if he wants to take like a contingency's contract. nobody's going to ask about it the Ardum Vakatov thing is the best story it's the best story like it makes me so happy

because like the the UFC free defender public defenders are just you guys are like who cares like dude you love Alex Pereira this dude is a better kickbox than Alex Pereira and they

were like 10 and 10 guy that's all we can do for you Okay, guess I'll go back to glory then. That's, Ken, I don't remember a fighter just publicly stiffing him on that. Like that, it was just something to that. We're just like, yeah, man, this isn't my only option. So we're not going to do this. You guys aren't paying me enough to make it worth my while.

I have a family to feed. And apparently your offer wasn't enough. So I'm going to go fight Rico Berra Hoobin and make a big bag over at Glory. So yeah, you don't see a lot of fighters going on the contender series hoping for a UFC contract. And then when they get one saying, nope, not doing it. Goodbye. Dude, especially too, because like now that Alex has lost the belt, if he reclaims the belt, that would change the, like math.

But like, let's say he loses to Honolive in their rematch. There's no shortage of opponents for Alex. He's Alex. He's very, very popular. But, like, you just let Artem get one win. And you're like, oh, this is no longer really title implications. screw it, fight each other again. Like people will love that.

Instead they're like, sir, 10 and 10, final offer. Okay, bye. Absolutely ridiculous. Is there anything you get new better? Can you do any better? No, all right. Well, I'm leaving then. I, my favorite part of it too is like the way he phrased it.

And like maybe this is something lost in translation or whatever. He's like, according to them, they couldn't offer me. more because like that's the rules like that's the rules who makes this fucking rules man it's them i'm sure bow nickel got 10 and 10 off contender series i'm sure gregg hardy got 10 and 10 coming off also like you could just be like okay we're not going to offer you the 10 and 10 oh we offered you the 10 and 10 okay the Dana white contract the contingency's contract is is out now that you're a free agent would you would you take 50 and 50 like that's just the most incredible Well, thing like, no.

Because like I can see Hunter Campbell's sitting and be like, my hands are tied. I can only offer you 10 and 10 for the rules. Here's the rules. These are the rules. The laws say I can only do this. There's no wiggle room here. Would you like to fight for 20 grand?

No? Ah, shit. Okay. Ah, we tried. Have a wonderful day. All right. Thank you much. Dude, the Artem stuff is easily the best thing that happened this week.

But it's so, it was just so predictable. Weren't we kind of waiting for that story eventually, that exact kind of. I was genuinely shocked when he did contender series. Like, why is he doing contender series? Like, or things that hard up? And then it was just like, no. Okay, do you want to fight? I'm even trying to think like who he would have gotten booked against for his debut.

Somebody just ass, right? or do you want to fight Rico Verhoeven? Well, I'll take the Verhoven fight for a million dollars, thank you. Yeah. They would have given him like Bruno Silva or somebody like that.

Probably, that probably is. Yeah, that's who, yeah, Bruno Silva says it. Perfect. Thank you. Super chat from Jonah. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget online casino is live.

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Happy holidays to all and to all a good price. Homestense. Endless presents perfectly priced. Jonah, Mike, you failed to notice how awesome your Otno Pick Wood versus Woodson is. Taos versus shortest. Featherweight going to be so funny and father versus son giving. Thank you. Yes. It's a really good pick actually.

When you, I list not and I was like, I like what he's doing there. That would be an amusing visual. It would be. There's a lot of like crazy numbers and stats going on. UFC Mexico City, the card with the oldest fighter on the roster and the youngest fighter on the roster competing at the same time. Vince Bichel is the oldest fighter on the roster and of course we can't even use 19 year old Raul Roses Jr. anymore because I believe now he's 20 year old Raul Roses Jr., the youngest fighter in the roster. So good stuff. Interesting. Yeah. All right. I guess now I have to check in

and watch the card now. Sounds great. Yep, I watch it. I mean, Mexico City is a good card. Certainly it's better. It's pretty solid. Yeah, it's better than the last. The prelims have some fun stuff. Yeah. It's not better than, you think it's better than London on paper? I think they're very comparable. Yeah.

I think top to bottom is a little bit better. Certainly the main car. I think London better. Okay. Yeah, I agree. But like overall, they're in the same neighborhood. I made a slight edge towards London just because the very top of London is better than the very top here. Yeah.

I think I think the stakes the stakes on paper are higher with London. But when you look at it like which if you looked at these cards side by side two weeks ago and you thought to yourself like what is going to be the more fun watch it's Saturday. Well yeah. Without question like every fight is a bantam weight or a lightweight or featherweight fight. It's definitely more fun. Just better weight classes. There are two middle weights and that's the heaviest we got. Oh yeah.

They learned. Yeah, Mexico City. Yeah. Those big boys. Don't bring the big boys to. Don't bring big boys, too. Or do it. Or do it and let's...

Or do it and just, yeah, prepare to have a good time. Mick Parkin, Martin Taibora, ain't walking to that fight needed to be in Mexico City. The Mexican fans were clamoring for Mick Pargan, Marcine Taibura. Free agent Marcin Taibora. I'm surprised we haven't gotten any super chat about Martin Taibora's future. Final fight on his deal. I'm not surprised. So much leverage.

Now he and Ryan Bader can team up. up to go somewhere else and bring all the views. Now, there it is. BKFC Phoenix. Bater versus Tyboa, BKFC, Knucklemania 6. I think that's the knucklemania we're on. The UFC always signs the best fighters and he is a top 10 heavyweight and the UFC will throw the bag at Tybor because they signed the best fighters. That's true.

I think they're going to sign him because I don't think they have to throw the bag at him. Tyboria strikes me as a dude. We'll just be like, yeah, whatever you're offering, cool. That's fine. We'll give you the money we're going to offer Artem per fight. So we'll add an extra 10 grand winning show to what you paid for fight. Big Parkin. Thank you, Jonah.

Super chat from Scretchen. It's a weird one, but, you know. Scretchen. Dana had no problem with the fighter who did that on the Ultimate Fighter. Who was that? Who was that? Dakota? He was an ultimate fighter?

He never fought on the UFC. Um, oh, give me a second and I'll think of, I'll look this up. I know Dakota Cochran, but he was never a UFC fighter. No,

but he was in the ultimate fighter. Oh, he was? Oh. I'm like 90% sure. This is an AK thing, but. This is an AK thing.

AK is the tough man. Like he understands. Oh, oh, okay. Sorry. I was good. No, like AK is the. guy who knows what's going on with tough. But like, I'm like pretty sure he was on the ultimate fighter.

Yeah, I forget. I forget. I'm willing to go up to 95% that he was on the ultimate. Sure was. The Ultimate Fighter live season. He lost a split decision to James Vic. Well, UFC didn't choose to resign him on a regular contract. So I guess they didn't like him enough.

So, all right. Thank you much. but yeah i i do think that dana would not have a structural issue with him and somebody pointed out previously in the comments that uh jeff malina is by i don't know that that's confirmed i know that he wore went on aerial show like pride shorts one time like gay pride shorts yeah he went on aerial show when aerial is still with us he went on the show he went on the show and talked about it so um i'll have to go back and like listen to that before i can actually yeah like give a sense he just never he he he he

He never fought after, though, because it came out. It was all in the same, the, all that thing came around the same time. Yeah, with the Krauss stuff and gambling and everything. So, yeah. So we finally got Jeff's face. I mean, Derek Minter can fight tomorrow. He can fight today. His suspension's over.

That's done. His 29 months are up. Jeff Alina can fight November. So all things considered- Why didn't they catch it worse in teeth? because he actually placed the bets. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

Did you? But he also said that he placed bets on like a bunch of fights on the card. And it wasn't a significant amount of money overall. But yeah, it's, I mean, all things weird, man. I'm kidding. Like this story. I think this story's far from over. It's just this is the, what's it's been two years, almost three since like we last got an update on.

Yeah, it was like November is when November of 2022 is when this really kicked off. And then we, for the next like five, six months, we were trying to figure stuff out. And then it was just nothing. Now we finally get some fade here. I think I've said before, but credit to the UFC PR or whatever, because when this story happened, we were like, this will be the biggest story of the year. And then it kind of just feels a little way. And not one question about it, you know, so they, they, they, the UFC made this problem disavis appear.

Yeah. Because there's just no, there's just nothing. You know, they, they're not part of it anymore. They lay down their rules moving forward, which is you can't train it as gym and you can't bet on fights anymore. Like we find out you're bending on fights. Like you're done. You're in trouble and all this shit.

So, I mean, Dana's been, anytime Dana was asked about it, it's like federal effin prison, like all that stuff. So, I mean, it's pretty easy. You just, this is like how most sports handle gambling. You're not allowed to bet on the sports that you participate in, which I think is a clean, like that. There's just no reason not to have that rule. It seems like an easy rule. Molina failed.

I get it. No, but he did it before they enacted the role. When did they enact it? Because remember you could. Yeah, but like that's also still just like, I don't have any sympathy for it, especially because like, for whatever he wants to say, this feels like some shady shit, man. So like take a three years on the can to move on.

You watched the betting line for that fight just continue to shift throughout the car. Like it was being boosted in a significant way where everybody who gambles on fights noticed how the lines were shifting. And then the fight happened. And we realized why they were shifting because Derek Minner was completely injured

and unable to fight. and got run the F over by Nerd and Becca. And we were just like, that was a whole thing. Immediately, the whole thing was called into question because one of the betting lines and two of how the fight actually transpired, and three, the fallout of it, seeing how hurt Derek Minter was going into it, and then not disclosing the injury.

So just a whole bunch of shit, man. Yeah. And honestly, three years didn't even that bad. Honestly, again. That's fine. It's not great. and this is your profession that's tough but three years is

it's not a lifetime UFC didn't cut them I know Derek Miner got cut yeah there's going to be a there's going to be a dark side of the cage on online gambling and the UFC well in combat sports pretty soon

it's yeah it's gonna be wild maybe oh not yeah it's down the line it's coming it's getting real dirty thank you I mean they're already a ton of great early day stories

in that. That's what the fun really is. Thank you, Scridgen. A bunch of super chats. Giovanni. Favorite fight in the near future that's officially booked. That's a good question. Why don't we go pull up the sked

and see what I'm thinking about right now? Officially booked, I got to go with I mean, Volk Lopez is a good one. But I got to tell you, I am so intrigued by Patty versus Chandler. That's a great matchmaking. I think that's, I mean, I think that's, that's the one that I'm like most interested in.

Just because I'm super curious of how it's going to go. One, 314 is a really good card on paper. I cannot wait for that watch party. They face some of these good fights to other thing. Because like the prelims are all sick too. Like we could do a watch party starting with Jim Miller Chase Hooper, because it's just hitter after hit her following that. I have one.

I just want to make sure there's nothing I'm missing because one is jumping out at me right now. And it's not Aaron Blanchfield versus Macy Barber in case you were wondering. Why are we hating on that fight? Because I think that Aaron Blanchold's going to kill Macy Barber. And so it won't be. I'm going to, I have won't an honorable mention. I think the answer has to be Corey Sandhagen, Figgi Smalls, as I think that that fight is just deeply fascinating and really, really good.

And you're talking about two guys. I think Figgies probably like slightly past his prime, but in the new weight class, still can't even really be sure of that. And Corey Santagan feels like a guy who is amazing and may never get to fight for a belt because he just can't quite get over the hump, like by the smallest of margins.

So that fight is really, really good. But also, Pitbull versus Rodriguez is sick. Like, that's just a ripper of a fight. And I'm pretty pumped about Pitbull versus Yayer Rodriguez. Yeah, it's a good one. Non-championship fights for me, yeah, Pitbull-Rourgas and Hill Roundtry. Those are my two. That's number two for me is Hill.

I am astonished that it's not San Dagan figgy for you, Casey. I love San Hagan, San Hagen. Yeah, that's why I'm astonished. and also, as you've said many times, light heavyweight is trash, and so Hill Roundtree, they're bad fighters because they compete in a bad weight class.

I thought for sure. I mean, there was one- The champion of their weight class is the 20th ranked pound-for-pound fighter in the world. So I assume that you would then favor the Sandhagen figure fight

since you love Sandhagen so much too. I, okay, Fungoge is like most talented fights. Yeah. I'm just going to entertain me. Like, that's going to be interesting. It's still relevant to the division. It's going to be an entertaining fight, yes.

Yeah. No love for Jose Aldo versus Amos a hobby. I was shocked. I was going to troll a bit. I thought of trolling and just saying it. It's one of the worst fights has ever been booked. It's really impressive that the UFC has managed to, like, of their five worst bookings in modern history, three of them have been Joseo Alto. Morale.

I don't know how they're doing it, but they keep doing it. Thank you, Jibai. A few more Super Jets. We kind of talked about this before. What do you think about Jeff Molina admitting that he bet, even after the UFC told fighters not to bet? Do you agree with his claim of a double standard? So we didn't address the double standard part.

He basically said, well, Connor McGregor drops his bet slips on UFC main events all the time, and there's no repercussions for him. So, I mean, there technically is a double standard. It's a really good point. Does he? I don't follow on Twitter. face.

But Connor does that often. He'll bet and throw his lips up. I definitely seen a couple. I don't know if he hasn't done in a while though. And that's the thing. Like it's possible that he hasn't done it since has happened. I wouldn't bet that. I would guess that he has.

But like I don't want to cast like aspersion on something that I'd be kind of making up. If like there's just actual proof that Connor did that, then yeah, is a, there's a clear double standard. And that sucks for him. But life sucks. Get a helmet, Jeff. World isn't fair. And if you were expecting to be treated the same as Connor McGregor,

you're a psychopath. That was very silly of you. Okay, so he did, is that still active? Yeah, so Connor did put out a bet after UFC 307. It is on his Instagram right now, if you want to look at it from October of 2024. Showing a betting slip.

of Alex Pereira knocking out Cleo Roundtree. So technically, I guess technically, if Connor never fights again, which he may never fight again, he's done nothing wrong. If he's under contract, he's still suspended though. I mean, yes, but you know. I'm just talking like, who's going to do that? If this is a fair world, a fair and just world, I'm just saying. Again, right.

If you're watching this and you thought that you would be held to the same standards is Connor McGregor, you're a very silly and gullible person. And I encourage you to do more critical thinking because very obviously that is not true. You thought the world was fair. Yeah. So there you have. I was thinking that's the weirdest thing. Like, no, I mean, I completely understand what you're saying yet, but like how we, we criticize people for expecting the world to be fair. Like, it's like, you idiot. I mean, you know. Actually, at M. I may. Yeah.

I would like to live in the good world that you envision. But sometimes you got to be a little more practical. But you're correct. Especially if you're being like you're betting for 300 bucks. Just like just don't even do it then, man. Like if you're going to be a bear, be a grizzly. Like if you're going to do it, like try and make a lot of money so it's fine when you get suspended. I was just throwing some wagers down for $20.

So is 300 bucks consider a big bet or small be? Because I consider, for me, that's like, that's incredibly big. I mean, that's a big bet for like social gambling. It's a very small bet if you're trying to like make money. Like if you're trying to pay bills, that is not not a sizable bet whatsoever. Oh, paying bills and gambling. That's a great combo. Plus also like you just, you just make a bet with your buddy, like somebody at the gym.

Like you and Derek Minner could be like, I'll bet. you 50 bucks that Alex wins or whatever instead of going through your sports book. Yep. Thank you. It's not fair at all, just how it's going. All right. Jonah, this week we are going from Miranda to Pichel, Casey. Best stash and M.M.A. aside yourself.

Also, we want... Great question. Best stash in M.A. Also, we want Otto Goat. What's that? Oh, Otto the dog. It's not a goat. Oh, Otto.

I have Otto. Hold on and I'll go retrieve him. Best stash at M.MA? Right now, I think Vince, Vince, Vince, Mitchell's stash is pretty fantastic. One of the best stashes in the sport and he didn't commit to it was when Steepay had the stash. It looked amazing. Oh, there he is. More important right now.

Otto, quit pawing my face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Otto, look at the camera. Okay, or not. How's it going? Oh, to camera. Come on. Hey.

He's waving. He's waving to the people. I was asleep and you woke me up, you bastard. Yep. That is what he is saying. He's like, thanks, prick. I was asleep on the couch and then you just hoisted me into the air and walked across the room with me. What the hell?

And now you just went. and laid right back down yeah uh good times a good one thank you joiner all right uh another terrific stash oh yeah vences yeah is there anyone who am i missing anyone else in the gabriel jonson had a great mustache when he when he grows it out oh tim johnson a terrific one yeah but then he started doing the whole beard is that nice um i mean ian mccall probably asked to say he and mcall had the fancies of the raleigh fingers going fancy I mean, Dan Severin is probably like the first MMA mustache I remember seeing. I can't imagine him like,

him and Don Fry. Yeah, him and Don Frye like, it's like the sport in general. Don Fry is the OG goat. Yeah. Just, just 80s baseball car looking mustache. I mean, of course, Mike Beltran. I don't know if we're counting him, but. I mean, Mike Belcher.

He's in the orbit. He's in the orbit. I'm refereeing. Yeah, but they're all bad, so it's fine. At least he's got a cool mustache. That's true. Paul Felder had a good one for a little while. Dude, Paul looks so much better of a mustache.

He looks so good of a mustache. I don't know Paul person. I mean, I haven't seen him in years, but Paul. That's a sad. That's a good stat. He had a good stash. He had one for the, what, RDA fight? I think, yeah, it works.

It looks great on him. It works. I don't know. I'm going to talk to Mr. Brian Butler. All right. Super chat from Tanver again. Tanvir. Tanvir.

If Prochus beats Neil, do you match him up with Leon? Leon gets a striker and Prochus has the opportunity to beat a former champ. No. No. There is a... I don't want to hear Leon's name mentioned outside of one... Like, for a fight outside of Jorge Amazol.

Nothing else makes sense. Enough is enough. There is no other way. Like, before you could be like, well, Leon's like just way better than him and he's got the title. Like it's nonsense if Leon fights Mazadol who has lost a bunch of fights in a row. Like it makes no sense for that fight to happen. But now like it makes all the sense of the world for that fight to happen because

Leon Edwards is never fighting for a belt again. He is out of the title picture altogether. So let's just be weird and fun. That is a big fight still even in 2025. What are we doing here? Like this is the easiest matchmaking you could possibly have for this division. right now. Just do Leon versus Mazdal. There's so much history

there. The video packages to promote this fight are already there. You don't have to do any real additional work outside of like just doing a quick little interview with each guy talking about hey, I still want to punch this dude in the face three piece in the soda. Wait till 2025 or you get a five piece in the soda.

Like you can do all these things. It's so easy. Just book the fucking fight. It's right there. I agree. The laundry's on the bed. Just got a photo at you. Laundrie is on the bed. Fold the laundry. To the person saying you want Mossvedol to become number three, no, Leon would beat Jorge Mossvedal.

Quite comfortable. It would be a terrible fight in execution. It would be awful boring, but he would definitely beat Jorge. The only thing I'll add is to address Tanvir's question because I don't think I, everything you said I'm fully on board with. Carlos Prattis is going to fight Jack Della after Jack Della loses to Bilal Muhammad. That if he beats Jeff Neal, he is fighting Jack Della next. That is how that will go. Don't hate it.

I kind of want to see Pratchez fight MVP. I kind of just want to see what that fight looks like. It would be interesting. Are we all predicting proches to beat Neil? Or is it still up in there? I don't know yet. That's still up. It's closer than people think.

Jeff Neal is just a really hard son of a bitch to fight. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Thank you. I think we're a little over our skis. the prarchus at this point too honestly because he's so fun and obviously i think he's deeply fun i think we may be a little overhyped yeah you're not ready for the disappointment like

i'm really not yeah you don't you don't you don't want to take match is your situation yeah yeah there's no rush here no rush i need to do it whatsoever all right uh there's a little but a rush. She's kind of old. This is welterweight, though. It is, but. It's an old man to vision. 31.

He needs to get going. If, for Mike, if, if, if, if you see can't fold the laundry and get mad at all, Leon, what is that? I love this term. What is next for Leon? See, I think that there's another obvious choice. if they can't fold the laundry here. MVP? Correct.

You know. Good to do that. England versus England battle. That's been circled for like a hot minute. And to whoever it was who was like, you want Jorge to be a top five fighter. I don't think that would happen. But there's the outcome where that happens and that's bad. If MVP beats Leon, I think the U.S.C. is more than comfortable with that scenario.

So I think that that is the fight if they don't do Mossville. all. To me, that's the only way, the only way Mazadol wins that fight is if he wrestles the entire time. And he just gets sudden. And Mazdaal's not a bad grappler. Like, I think his grappling is no, he's good. Underrated overall. He's a pretty good grappler. Is he like a huge takedown offensive wrestler? Put you on your back and make you run around the cage on your heels kind of wrestler? No, but as we've seen, if you can do that to Leahette Edwards, you can win. So, but I just don't see Mazadol coming back for a UFC fight. to try to tackle somebody and win.

I don't think he wins a striking match at Leon. I think Leon just kind of kicks him in the legs and in the body a whole bunch and just jabs away and maybe Mazel is a big moment somewhere in the fight down the stretch, but it's kind of how I see that one going, but it's just a build and everything around it,

like, could it be MVP Paul Daly? Very possible, but... It doesn't matter. The hype was there you watched and, you know, it might be a stinker fight, as long as we're all watching, you know. Let's just see. It's right there.

Let's just see what would happen. If it sucks, it sucks, but now we're over. Has he not done any media or any real media after the fight? I don't think you said anything. Not even like, oh, not even like a I lost this sucks Instagram post. Not that I remember. I feel like I'd remember that. Yeah, I feel like, yeah.

Dean Thomas ripped on him, though. That was wild. Really? I mean, he didn't rip on him. He was like trying to be nice. He was like, yeah, Leon Edwards is. not a fighter because he was in Sean Brady's corner. He's like he he said a lot of the stuff what we said when we talked about it was like as soon as he shot the takedown he me and whatever

the other coach was looked to each other like oh we're done here we just wait the fight will be over but Leon has mentally quit in there and then like he was just like yeah like I got a lot of respect for Leon it's incredible what he achieved especially because he's not a real fighter and then he also but he he put the little chaser with it of like And I know because I had the same thing. Like I also did not have, I did not have that grit, that tenacity that is necessary. And he managed to become world champion and be one of the best despite lacking it. I did not.

I was like, wow, way to make that go down smooth, Dean. Yeah. Sean is just a, he's a problem, man. He's a, he's a, he's a Haas at 170. Very strong man. If he gets, he gets his hands on you, like, you're going. Like, you're going. It's just a matter of, can you keep him away from you?

Bala was able to do it. Yeah, but Sean's got better. Maybe learn from that bad night to, man. The striking's gotten a lot better since the Bola fight. Can't wait to see what's next for Sean Brady. But it's still interesting that the conversation still seems to be like right after the fight, not my main concern, but I was like, are people going to be like, oh, Sean Brady's awesome or Leon Edwards

sucks. And I think we're getting a lot of both of that after that fight. Definitely getting both. A lot of both. Yeah. I mean, everything we said on the show last week.

Yeah, every, everything, I think everything Jed and I said about that fight, like came true. Like, if Sean Brady does what he says he's going to do, he's going to kill Leon Edwards.

Like, this will not be, this will be one-way traffic. And then Jed even said to kind of like put the cherry on top of the Sunday was like, Like, Leon might have some dog in him, but he's a chihuahua, but it's a chihuahua. And, I mean, that's just what, like, you saw him, he, he saw him break and then he was just like, I don't want to be here anymore.

I mean, he wasn't getting out of that submission anyways, but he was just ready for that fight to be over at that point because it wasn't going to get any better for him. Yeah. Yeah. He's just a reasonable person, Casey, because that's how I would be. That's how most people would be like, oh, this sucks. I'd rather not be here. And then you're not there. Yeah, it's not.

And again, like I know we use the word washed like a little more freely than we probably should. I don't, like, I didn't watch a fight and think like, oh, Leon's wash and he's like has no athleticism. This is just who he's always been. And people have just figured out, figure that out and how to be him. Like there is a blueprint on how to beat him. Yeah, which we can't, that's what we kind of got to when we did our post show. I was like, he was, oh, Leon's watch. I think I don't think Leon's watch.

I think he's just kind of back to where he was before he was champ, which was a really good top 10 Walter weight, which I still kind of think he is, you know, but he's not like he's going to win more fights. Yeah. Like he's not like he's never going to win again. Like he fights Mazel, he's probably going to win. And there's a lot of guys in this division he can beat. Like he fights Wonderboy probably beats Wonderboy.

Like, there are guys in the top. Is he still top? Is he, okay, that's all. Yeah, he's still top 10, though. Like, he's. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what.

He's definitely still top 10 because the welterweight's bad. That's the thing. Like, I think at the end of it, we're going to, some people will complain and say that this is, you know, hindsight or whatever. But I think that like, even living through this, that there was a tinge of this. But if we just look at his career right now, we can be like, that dude went on an impressively long win streak. It was very hard to do. He beat some solid

dudes in that win streak. He wasn't really impressive in any of them. And a lot of those dudes, there's you know, some caveats about it. Donald Seroni, not really a welterweight. You know, Gunner Nelson fights once every other year and that fight was very

competitive. RDA, a welterweight, but kind of like a little bit of a tweener as well. Nate Diaz is Nate Diaz. Like what did that win mean at that in time. And then the Kamar Usman one, which we talked about along the post show, like, I do not want to take anything away because he threw the kick, it landed. We were 60 seconds of Kamar Usman sprinting away from Leon Edwards being the fighter that he's always been, which is

sort of the point, like good but not great. And then he landed one of the greatest knockouts in UFC history, and that gets to change his stars. He gets to forever be a champion. And the win in the three match with Usman. was far more important. Like, that's the best he's ever looked. That was genuinely impressive. There are real questions about Kamar Usman aging out at this point. And then he got to fight Kobe Covington, who is probably not very good at this point

of his career. And then he lost his next two. Like, I think, I think Casey is right. Like, he is at his best, he was one of the five best welter weights in the world. And definitionally, he was the best welterweight in the world. But, like, he was never going to go on an extended run. the fact that he got the title at all is that's probably a high role for him. And so good career.

Absolutely. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Uh, last super chat. Uh, doesn't it make sense for John Aspinall to be the first Netflix main event? Explains why all parties are keeping quiet. Are they going to sit on this fight for another 10 months?

Yeah. I just, I, I, I, I just, Aspenol has to fight before that. Casey has brought this up previously. Yeah, I brought this up to the last show. Here's the deal. Yes and no is my answer to this. If they know they are signing with Netflix, yes. I think that some of it makes sense.

Except for there's one little little A to be issue. You still have a heavyweight title that should probably be fought. And you have a dude who wants to fight because Tom Aspernel is still young. And the way you can grow your brand is to fight again. And so your timing is a little off. If the Netflix deal was going to go into effect in the fall, 100% I would say that this is a viable thing. It doesn't kick until next year, which really makes the timing possible, but it seems improbable to me that Tom Asper does not fight before then. Because you're putting a lot of eggs in that basket.

And that's a year. Shit can happen. Either of them gets injured and it's all for nothing. Like all of this weight, all of this nonsense is for nothing if somebody gets injured in November and suddenly you can't do the January 1st Netflix show with them. So I just think that it would be a big swing that the UFC probably would not be trying to take. That's my read on it at least. Well, I think I think John's the only important part. I think the opponent, the B side is, it can be whoever.

If Aspenov fights, if Aspenovites Almeida and Almeida wins, Then I'm like, oh, Alameda is the guy. It's not as big as Aspinall, but it's still John Jones and John, to me, for Netflix. No, no, I get what you're saying. But John would never fight Yelton Almeda. He ain't fighting him. He shouldn't fight Jailton Almeida. I think it's, I think it's the money.

He should 100% fight Jailton Almeida. But yes, I'm with Casey. It's the, it's the cash thing. I see a point, Casey. I think I disagree that it does matter. Like, it doesn't matter enough. John is still the attraction, but this fight has grown into something real and substantive, and it just can't be replaced that easily unless it was Francis, but obviously that'll never happen.

But I do agree that if Aspinall fights and loses, John, John doesn't care who it is. It is a money issue for him. Just get him. Give Aspinall Pereira. Who gives a shit? Just do it. Does anybody care? Like, if anybody really cared, they could pull out the excuse while I was hurt and sick,

heading into the Magamenekelai fight, it's fine. If we're trying to build something, then the opponent truly doesn't matter there. They have those two dudes fight, the interim heavyweight belt, whoever wins, goes and fights John Jones, Netflix, January 3rd or whatever the hell it would be,

massive fight for the unified belt, you can sell it as John's final fight of his career. Like, that's just massive, just absolutely gigantic, either of those names. Yeah. I don't know if Jailton or Cerell. obviously we don't want to see Cyril again because the same thing would happen and i think i don't know i'll add one more thing to this entire saga guys that i haven't really seen many people put out

there but i think is a real piece of this i think john jones is very aware that he is not at his best anymore um that is why he was so focused on the steep a fight frankly i don't think he looked amazing in the steep a fight he didn't look bad but like he looked older john is been fighting for a long time now. John is 37 pushing 38. The long negotiation favors Tom in that if the fight ever happens, if John was going to fight Tom, he should have fought him as soon as he could, because Tom is getting better because that's how athletic primes work. And John is getting worse. Like, I don't think it can really be argued that the best John Jones will be the next one. It will not be his best version. And he's been tapering off a little bit for the past few years anyway. So,

like, now you're asking John to take a fight he doesn't really want to take a fight that has a ton of risk and you got to keep waiting. I want you to be pushing 39 by the time you're doing this fight if we're waiting for Netflix. I don't, I just don't know why he'd take this fight unless they are going to come off to use his words and an appropriate term, fuck you money I do not know why he would take this fight and the UFC's not going to give him fuck you money I don't think

but Netflix might I don't know man I'm maybe maybe but yesterday's price ain't today's price if I'm Tom and you're asking me to wait until February price of the bricks going up like I just not doing that from me I just don't think Tom is the important part of the equation

I mean for me it's a man I meant John yeah but I said Tom I meant John Like John's price today should not be John's price in February. I mean, Tom doesn't have the power that John has, but he will have some. At least a little. He could play the same game if you're going to make him sit out for a year and a half, almost two years. Dude, just take the belt off John. It's not that hard, man.

Yeah. I mean, that's all we've been asking for. The belt doesn't matter to him. Exactly. If John comes back and fights eventually, not a single person will care that he's not holding a title. Just take it off it, give it to Tom, let the weight class move on. And when John decides he wants to fight if he does, then those two can fight. And if he does it, then it's cool.

We just moved on. But like, rubber needs to meet the road. Just take the belt off him. It is insignificant for him to have it. Correct. That's all we've been saying. That's all we've been saying for two years now. Just take the belt off of them.

If he wants to fight for it, he'll come fight for it. and he can retire as the champion if he wins. And if not, who cares? He's John Jones. We know the belts don't mean a whole hell of a lot anyways. So in the grand scheme of things, especially when it comes to guys like John and Pereira and big stars, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter. Anything else? So we're good. Dude, if John just bails on the belt, like he can fight Pereira. If he's just like, hey, I'm out. And then six months later, he's like, at the end of this year,

He's like, you know what? I kind of want to fight again. And I don't have a belt. I don't have any responsibilities to anybody else. I don't fight Alex Pereira. Okay? Everyone signs up for it. Like, just take the belt off him.

It solves every problem if you take the belt off him. Yep. That's it. Easy. Okay. We're done. We will have a preview show tomorrow for UFC Mexico City, which as we discussed is going to be fun.

Random right now. We've got Manwell Torres for Dover, Kelvin Gaspin, Joe Piper, Val Rojas, Vince Morales, David Martinez, Simon Olivera, Renalvo Rodriguez, Kevin Borjas, and on and on we go. It should be fun. And we appreciate you joining us

on another Thursday. We'll do a Q&A next week and then right before UFC 314, the battles resume. For Casey, for Jed, I am Mike Keck. See you next week. The iconic voice special one takes you home. Good night. Love you all. This has been between

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