MMA Fighting - BTL | Charles Oliveira vs. Islam Makhachev, UFC 280 Storylines, Jon Jones, More

Episode Date: October 20, 2022

Charles Oliveira and Islam Makhachev will finally collide in one of the most anticipated matchups of 2022 in the main event of UFC 280 this Saturday in Abu Dhabi to crown a new UFC lightweight champion. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss the high stakes 155-pound matchup between Oliveira and Makhachev, and what is on the line in terms of all-time greatness. Additionally, topics will include the bantamweight title fight between Aljamain Sterling and T.J. Dillashaw and why it's flying under the radar, Petr Yan vs. Sean O'Malley and the other massive bouts on the card, Jon Jones potentially fighting at UFC 282 in December, Alexa Grasso's big win at UFC Vegas 62 and her current place in the flyweight title discussion, and more. Host Mike Heck will moderate the matchup between MMA Fighting's Alexander K. Lee and Morning Kombat's Brian Campbell. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Brian Campbell: @BCampbell Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From Deaf and Power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf.

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Anime Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Litt welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links and what a show it shall be, ladies and gentlemen, because of this time, two days from now, We'll be on the final two prelim fights of UFC 280. The main card will be upon us.

The two title fights, the incredible main event for the vacant lightweight title. It's just one of those weeks where we get reminded of why we love this sport so much. We'll certainly talk about the big storylines heading into Saturday and much more on the show. No time to waste. Let's get to it. Let us introduce the panelist first. Let us say hello to a man who is now with us three weeks in a row. He's coming off a hard-fought victory over UFC.

lightweight Grant Dawson on the show last week. Not a lot of people on this planet can say they hold a win over Grant Dawson and pretty much anything, but he does. He's the Prince of Positivity, the co-host of On to the next one in the NBA Fighting Ranking Show. And he's our best friend, too, Mr. Alexander Kaylee. Hello, AK. Oh, sorry, I was looking at the wrong.

Hello. A little bit of this. A little bit of this. Sorry, I don't know how to, I don't know what to do. I've never, I've never been on this show this many consecutive times. It's weird for me. But I'm excited. I'm excited to have done it and excited about my opponents today.

Yes, and this opponent, sometimes people throw out this cliche just to make people feel good and they don't really mean it. But in this case, it rings true. Back by popular demand, he's already got a victory over the recently retired Jed Mishu on the program. And I don't think anybody is more excited about Tyson Fury's next fight than this man from Morning Combat, CBS Sports, Showtime, former MMA beat panelist as well. And I believe another award is going on your mantle. Mr. Brian Campbell, you're back. This is exciting.

How are you? Hey, I'm doing great. Thanks for having me back. I was ready to jump back in the dumpster and take out Mesh you a second time. But A.K. Lee is a tough competitor. I'm from Morning Combat. All we do is win awards.

Thank you very much. Okay, all right, good. Well, congratulations on that. So let's get right into this. You can vote 100 times and you have crazy fans. It may be easy to win these awards, right? but you know, it's still happened, right? Still happened.

Don't be humble. Don't be humble. Back to back. People's Choice Podcast Award winner. Brian Campbell. The people have spoken. Thank you. Wow. This is a much nicer start to the program than the last time BC was on.

So look, I know it's UFC 280 fight week, but we're going to handle this show like a sandwich. Yes, we know the bread is an integral part of the sandwich, but the meat in the middle, that's what makes a sandwich a sandwich, my friends. And that's how this show is going to play out. So we're going to start with this past weekend first, UFC Vegas 62. And I like to bring up this particular category from time to time where there's not a lot of storylines that come out of a card.

I like to play the NHL three-star rule, and we're going to do so for UFC Vegas 62. So BC will begin with you, a la pro hockey. Who are your three stars of UFC Vegas 62 this past weekend? And why? Well, thankfully, Mike Heck, it wasn't at Zuck on Twitter. Yeah, great to hear that thing's over with for now, right?

I mean, come on. Somebody should slap that guy. Look, look, first star goes to Alexa Grasso. It's four in a row in the new weight class of women's fly away. It wasn't an overwhelming victory over Araujo, but, man, she took that next step closer to the title shot, played on her strengths, and did what she had to do. Where else am I throwing some stars there?

How about the legs of Jonathan Martinez to send 38-year-old cup swan? who moved down to Bannamway to the bottom there with a strong victory. And I don't know, you know, sometimes we all catch a guy and they catch our eye and we start riding them. Joe Anderson Brito is coming on and he's got that Python lock to submit pretty much anyone he's coming across. He took Lucas Alexander down quick. So I threw those three stars around that way, but it was kind of weird card where I'd have

no idea who you liked in this one. Yeah, it's all over the place. AK, what did you think? And I know you didn't watch us live, but you followed M.A.Fighting.com. I'm a great website. I've caught up. I'm a big fan of Alexa Grasso, but I don't think she did herself any favors with sort of her post-fight comments. I love her candor, humbleness, how honest she is.

The performance itself was really solid. Like Brian said, not this overwhelming dominant victory, but very few people just kind of blow out Vibiani Arujo. So there's no shame in her not being able to just completely dominate. But it was a pretty convincing win, I thought. So give her credit for that. However, all this talk about how, like, well, I'm not ready to fight Shevchenko yet. I know I need another big fight. I know I need another main event fight.

Again, cool, objective thinking. But for the fans, your needle just didn't move at all. So honesty does not always pay off in this business. So, again, credit to her for her maturity. But it's just I do wonder if this win, again, kind of left her neutral. But again, hopefully she does fight for a title someday and she gets her way. But for now, definitely Jonathan Martinez. I mean, Cub Swanson, huge name to have on his resume.

Great to see that the silence behind the violence, TBS TV, T-S-B-TV, right, Mike, T-S-B-TV. Everyone should be tuning in because he looks like he's got the weight issues behind him. He's an exciting guy in the cage and his unwillingness to talk. on the mic almost makes him more endearing in a way. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. But that's how I feel about it. So he would be the first star.

So many people talking about him. Halfa Al-Sonsal would be my second star for shutting us all up, including me. Please people do not read my prediction on MMAFighting.com. Again, fantastic website. My predictions, terrible. I said he can't win fights like this anymore. I said guys like Victor Henry, you know, not a super young guy, but just someone who's a little bit fresher in the O.C.

I thought it's going to come for that spot and take that spot. I was so wrong. I said my prediction might be disrespectful, and it was, and he shut me up. Half of us and I was a classic and should not be doubted like that again. And sprinkle a little star dust on Ted Surotaira. Again, a guy who we've talked about sort of flying under the radar because of the existence of Muhammad Makayev, who fights this weekend. He's also very young.

He's also killing it at 125. I'm not saying he's on the same level of a prospect as Makayev, but he is very, very good. and for him to just pick up a nice quick finish, well, somewhat quick finish is a second round finish against C.J. Vergara, who I think is a good fighter on the undercard. I mean, I think that's a big pickup for this kid. So he's also undefeated and picked up performance, a nice, a night bonus,

extra 50 Gs for him. So there you go. So apologies to Alexa Grasso, who won in the main event, but I'm going Martinez, Asun Sao, and Tyra. Your Honor, go check. Are we allowed to cross-reference the witness on this show? I don't want to take over the show. Of course.

Of course. It's more here. Look, A.K. Lee, I mean, I get it with Grasso. You know, I said it wasn't spectacular. She didn't leap through the screen, but it was workman like it was the next step and the evolution of her trying to round out her game. And it was her first five round bout. So I understand from like a marketing and we want to hear our fighters talk about how

tough and confident they are that you didn't like that she said, well, maybe I'd love to get one more five round bout in. Okay, would you rather go through what we've been through on the Shevchenko title journey, which is top contenders, let's use Lauren Murphy, for example, get to the pulpit, get to their point of proving themselves against the best, maybe, maybe, maybe long term, the best woman we've ever seen inside the Cage, Valentina, okay? Certainly the best who's ever had a handgun tattooed on her midrift.

But here's what I'm saying about Murphy. You know, every interview leading in is we're saying, how are you going to overcome somebody who can do everything? Now, this was before Tyler Santos humbled Chepchenko just a bit. But Murphy goes, I'm just going to do my game. I'm going to do me and see if it's enough. Attention women's 125 pound division. It's not going to be enough.

You're going to have to be better than you think you can be. You're going to have to be next level. Tyler Santos had the right sort of mentality mixed with body type and aggression. She found a way to make it close. I'd much rather have Alexa Grasso be honest with us. Say I'm a work in progress. You saw I just went five rounds. You know I can box.

I'm trying to wrestle on that same level. I want to get fully seasoned and ready. So I'm not, here we go, evil, here we go, right into a head kick in less than two minutes of the first round. Grasso is exactly where she needs to be. She understands the situation where if Manoen Furrow wins this weekend, UFC would love to put an octagon in the Eiffel Tower and run and, you know, have her fight for a title there.

She's probably going to have to get through another test anyway, whether that's Andrade if she wins or whomever. So this is Lexra Grasso knowing she's got a good marketing chip in her own back pocket coming from Mexico and trying to be the first Mexican-born female champion, let's let her figure it out on the way there, or we can just keep throwing, you know, her into the spider web of Valentina before they're ready. All you have to do is win two in a row in this division,

and they're ready to talk about you for a title shot. She's progressing properly, and she deserved one of your three stars, AK. I mean, let's be honest here. Do you ever retort, AK? I do. I was sorry. I was waiting for the opening for the opening. I didn't want to just jump in.

Listen, no, look, I like her attitude. I like her attitude. And in the macro, I mean, sure. Well, we could look back on this performance. We can look back on her comments after this performance. Her performances before this, her whole move up to 125 and say, like, she did it the right way. She, again, she correctly assessed her own skills, kind of projected where Valentina Shavchenko is. And she said the right thing.

She did the right things about, again, not wanting to dive head first to a fight into a collision with a bullet, frankly. There's really no nice way to put it. But again, as far as talking about just this event. I don't know if she raised her stock that much. And that's what kills it for me. Now, again, just by beating another top 50, someone who's ranked top 15 in the NBA fighting, global rankings, the only rankings that matter. It's great. Again, it's great for her.

She's building up a very strong resume. But to say that she, like, started this event, I just don't know how many people either change their opinion of her or talking about her more than they were after. I don't know if she needed a knockout. I don't know if she needed to be a little more dominant, if that would change my opinion of it. But just when a decision, yes, her first main event, yes, again, against another ragged opponent, yes, she's clearly not ready for Schifchenko yet.

But the fact that the talking point is that she knows, and we know she's not ready for Shepchenko yet, that diminishes the star power of this particular performance for me. Unlike as Jonathan Martinez, who, again, there was a lot of questions, been a lot of questions with him making weight. I mean, you know, maybe beating a veteran guy, takes out Cubs Swanson, fantastic performance.

A lot of questions about us and Sao on a losing streak. Is he just a name to be taken, a number to be taken now by guys like Victor Henry? So that was proven wrong. And again, Tyra kind of flying under the radar, but people are going to have to really start paying attention to this guy if he keeps putting on performances like he put against Rigara. So for me, maybe it was almost like who were the rising stars of this event. If you want to make a case that Grasso, again, it still has a higher overall kind of cue ratings in some of these names. sure, more people are talking about her than Tester or Tyra. But I mean, as far as who made the biggest impact, stock rising, things like that,

and people who I thought really were showcased at this event, I'm sticking with my three, Brian. So let me ask you this, Brian, because obviously she's in the title mix. She got kind of a head start on Fioro. And maybe Chukagian's in this mix, too, because I know it wasn't all that long ago that Chfchenko truck Caitlin Chukagin, but she is done. And then she lost Jessica Andrade's, but she has done everything you could have possibly asked her to do if she beats Manon Fioro to get herself another title fight. So we were all wondering like how to matchmake for Grasso coming out of this fight.

We were wondering how close she was this way. We thought Lauren Murphy would actually be a really good option because we thought we're taking the risk that Androge was going to go down to 115 and this actually would work out great. But as we reported earlier this week, Lauren's fighting Jessica Androj, January, UFC 283 in Rio. So how she needs one more fight, right? How do you matchmake for her now? Is she fighting Chukagian, win or lose on Saturday? Like, how would you put this together?

I don't think they're pushing Chukagian back into the title shot. She had one of the type of ho-hom performances challenging Valentina that, you know, solidified this somewhat negative stigma when you have a division that's not so deep and a dominant all-time great champion on top. She was almost, you could say, almost not resigned, although I happy that the UFC did when somebody's consistently beating the people that are trying to become contenders, you know, elite gaykeeper or not, they have value. They're there. They resigned her.

I'm not saying she can't work her way back into a title picture, but I think the elephant in the room on deciding any level of matchmaking, moving forwarding for Valentina is the UFC going to cash in on the trilogy with Amanda Nunes because now would seem the time Amanda just regained the title, neither have somebody, unless you're going to run back to Tyler Santos and say, look, she came really damn close. Let's give her another chance in a better case scenario. It doesn't seem they're going to do that.

So there's no one kicking the door in. While we're happy that the 125 division is getting a couple names we care about and a couple names on the rise, like it's starting to come together a little, I think now would be the time to put, if you're going to do it, to push the Valentina Amanda Trilogy knowing that Valentina almost just lost, Amanda just lost and had to overcome and win back the title. And if that happens, you're certainly going to need Grasso to take another step forward. So what is the best matchup? Well, the winner of Andrage Lauren Murphy is perfect.

And also, let's not forget, Tyler Soutres is going to have to fight somebody on the comeback. So I think either way, Grasso is not getting the next title shot, but she is going to have to fight a number one contender-level fight and to really prove ourselves. So that's why I'm okay looking at this win as more of a survive in advance. I panicked a bit after Jan Blaovich and his first five-round sort of showcase,

is he ready for the title opportunity, was very boring against Jokore and kind of did what he had to do to survive. and then he went out there and, you know, kicked a bruise on the side of Dominic Reyes and won the championship. So I'd be happy with any of the women in this conversation in the moment up there. You know, and maybe it's not fair, but I think Chukagian's going to have to have a longer road than the rest of them. I mean, because look, it's hard. She's really hard to beat if you're not a complete fighter or if you're still putting your game together. But she doesn't win spectacularly.

And she doesn't seem to beat the very best when they get to that point. So I think she's going to have a longer road to work back in there. So how do we book her now, A.K., now that we have this new development of Androge versus Murphy, how do we book Grasso now? It depends what you're trying to do. Again, if you're really trying to get behind Grasso and you're really trying to make her the next contender, I would definitely keep her away from Chukagin. I don't know why. I just don't like that matchup. Oddly, oddly, I kind of like her and Androge better.

I don't know why. Maybe there's something about Grasso's technical skills. I think maybe she can pull off like a Yawanna Jacek kind of impression. I'm not saying there's similar fighters, but as far as being like over 25 minutes, can she kind of sneak away with the decision against a Jessica Andrage. I think she can do that. Shikagin is such a coin toss and such a frustrating opponent. And you really need a little bit of power, like serious power to kind of get her notice, which is why I like Firoz's chances of beating her. But if that doesn't happen. Actually, and sorry, I should say, win or lose for Chagin, I don't want Grasso to have to go through her. I think that's the wrong way to go. So that's one match I'm not looking forward to. I would like to see her fight the Lauren Murphy Andraj winner.

I think either way, one, if Grasso can beat either of them, no question, she's worthy of a tell of a shot. And I'd be very impressed because those are super tough opponents. And I think you'd have a few people who would think that maybe, maybe she could catch Shevchenko on a day off. Kind of like Talas Santos did. In a different, striking, not grappling.

So I like her going down that route. Of course, staying available for that fight would also be smart. Of course, if she can just not stay ready to fight, possibly fight the winner. Sorry, possibly fight either Murphy or Andraj as a replacement. I'd say she has to jump on the opportunity. I know it's not ideal, but I think it's something she should consider. So I like that path a lot more. As far as when she might fight Shevchenko, man, it's hard to say, again,

the champ has options. There's a Talos Santos rematch, which you feel like has to happen at some point. Manon Figuero is ahead of the line. So that's already two people who I think Grasso is going to have to wait for, even if she managed to beat a Murphy or an entourage in impressive fashion. So it's a long way to go. And I think we might not see Grasso get that shot until, boy, late 2023, early 2024, if that.

Well, that is the end piece of the loaf of bread here. Not the most appealing thing on the show. show, but we can't throw it away. It's on to the cold cuts, maybe. Go ahead, all right. Would it fire you up if we matched Grasso against a three-fight win streak Macy Barber, fun main event? Could stay busy, could keep herself right in the title shot, or am I just fantasy matchmaking

to kill time here? I'm trying to see if Macy was matched out. Okay. I mean, that's not. She's a free agent right now, isn't she? Oh, that's the thing. She's not even signed. I think she was back, though.

I mean, I do, too, but. Yeah. I mean, maybe an Alexa Grasso main events might be just the thing to get a pen out quickly, put it to paper. So not a bad idea, but let's get on to the cold cuts, baby. It's on to the real good stuff. On to UFC 280. The point for round one goes to AK, it's one to nothing. I need that early lead. I need that early lead on Brian.

It's going to help. It's going to help me in the later rounds. BC's face is the only reason I made that selection more than anything. But as you know, these points don't mean anything. It all comes down to the final vote at the very end of this. So let's get in. These points mean as much as the podcast voters votes matter, okay? It's all matters to me, okay?

On this we agree. And on this we agree. On this we agree. Yes, but listen, you know, did I think we'd spend 20 minutes on UFC Vegas 62? I did not. So we got a little heated there and that's good. Support for this show comes from the audible original, the downloaded two. ghosts in the machine.

The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality

collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, ghosts in the machine, available now, only from Audible. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Tendors, no, but chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability

varies by region. See app for details. The main event for UFC 280 is upon us, gentlemen, for the vacant lightweight title in Abu Dhabi, Charles Olivera, battles Islam Makachev. Now, this is a fascinating fight for a number of reasons. Stylistically, from a legacy standpoint, We got two guys with double-digit win streaks. One guy's winning with just such pure and utter dominance, while the other has, in a lot of ways, defied logic, just always gets himself in a world of trouble and then just embraces it and gives chaos a big squeeze

and then finds ways to win in the most exciting possible way. So, A.K., a lot of these angles have been covered at nauseam. Maybe we'll revisit one here, but point blank. This was a popular topic on heck of a morning this morning. This was brought up multiple times. what is the biggest burning question you have about this fight? You can view it in all different ways, but what's that one question you want to see it answered in this fight

outside of who is actually going to win it? Oh, answered in the fight? In the fight? Like, what are you looking for as you style as you break it down? Yeah. Will I have time to make a Habib rant later because you know I have one of those loaded up? Yes, if you want, okay.

I'm just, I'm just, listen, I'm not the only one thinking yet. We're all thinking it. I'm just the one who keeps saying it. in the fight itself gosh i'll tell you one thing i'm not interested in this narrative of will islam break charles down and make charles quit i hear islam brought it up again at the press conference on thursday he the whole oh this guy this guy just gives up you put the pressure on him enough of that it's ridiculous

my only question is uh this sort of prediction i've been making for a while too is can olivera submit him uh i think he can i think it's how he wins the fight now does he do it now the question is does he do it off his back you know a lot of people are saying well makachev of course going to take him down we all see it happening there's almost no way he doesn't score at least one take down on charles olivera but once it gets there i mean who knows going to happen olivera has long been one of the most feared guys on the ground um off his back top control you name in any position this dude is super super deadly but we know that great wrestling can neutralize jutsu and and this has been happening for two decades now you know what the

the mystique of Jiu-Jitsu has been diffused many, many times by great wrestlers who have their own jiu-jitsu training, of course. But again, submitting, you know, being in someone's guard is no longer, you know, a death sentence as it was in, in the 90s when, when Hors Gracie was doing stuff like that to people. So we're long past those days. Certainly, Makachev could control Charles Oliver from top position for five rounds, beat him up with ground and pound. But I am a believer that Oliver is just not someone you want to mess with. And as aggressive and as powerful, as McAchev is. I'm a believer in the gentle art.

I think he is. I really need to know if he's going to tap him out. And so that's why I hope we get to see a lot of that. Old guys, great, well-rounded mixed martial artists. We can see a lot of action on the feet. Charles Olivera has become one of the most potent, like, knockout guys at lightweight. You know, he knocks people out. He also clubs and subs.

He's very dangerous on the feet. But for me, the ground game is what I want to see. I am so intrigued by how that that unstoppable Dagestani wrestling, how that Sambo matches up with, again, a guy widely regarded as the best submission artist in UFC history. So I need to see this. So I, if they mix the martial arts, Mike, I accept it. I'm not a fan, as you know, hashtag keep the martial arts apart. I would like to see this be primarily a grappling contest. And that's what I want to know is who is really the man down on the mat.

Forget mixing stuff. Both guys get on the ground and let's see who's really superior down there. You see, this fight is so interesting. What's the biggest question you have? I mean, it's very similar to what AK just said. It's specifically what happens, not obviously if Mahachev will take him down. He's going to take him down. You're going to take him down a lot.

The statistics show you that, the momentum, the history, everything's going to show you that. But it's more specifically when they're there. If off his back, Oliver cannot establish. the threat of a submission. He'll sub you in a half second if you make a big mistake. These d'Agostani wrestlers, especially at this level, and not every guys with Nirmagamatov's last name

is going to be this good. This guy just happens to be freaking great. I don't even think it matters if he's as good as Habib in this one. If he's as good as he has looked through this win streak, I know this is leveling up to a higher level, but what are these hammers from Dagestan bring? A motherfucker

attitude. I don't even know if I can say that word on this show. They shut your game. down. They'll shut the entertainment factor down. They'll just put it on lockdown. So when that starts happening, if Charles cannot provide a threat that will stop Mahachev from going into ground and pound chain wrestling, drag at your gas tank mode, then it's to illustrate what I love the most about this fight. Is that however way you lean, people are very passionate in either way. and the reason people are so like, okay, if you're picking, you know, if you're picking Charlie Olives, you can't even believe a world in which Islam could stand and trade with him.

I agree with you. They're just not going to be standing and trading for long. But what I love about the fight is that either guy can implement their game plan and completely win that way, right? You know, like Oliver could just make a trouble on the feet for Mahachev and exposed that he's not on that level. And obviously, there'd have to be some takedown defense in there and some other tricks. But I think he's going to get him down. he's down when Oliver's on his back, if that threat is not there enough to make Islam pull back a little and he's going to keep coming down hill on him, you know, look, Oliver

drags you into a war, he's willing to take your best shot, he's courageous as hell, he recuperated skills are amazing, but he almost sort of gasses you out and puts you in fight or flight mode by taking your big shot and getting you into his type of fight, which isn't anything can happen that shit crazy fight. In that mode, he's unbelievable. But Islam, whether you believe he's actually beaten enough A-level fighters or whether you believe he's anywhere close to Habib, what he does great is avoid those situations. So he will take Charlie down.

It's going to come down to whether Olivera, beyond just Islam making the kind of mistake that these guys don't make, these guys going to get tapped out, right? You know, when they get to this level, they are on a trend right now in Iran, especially those that have come directly from the teat of the late Abdulmanap, RIP. They don't succumb in those areas. Can Charles Alvara have enough?

of a threat. Of course, he's got more submissions than anybody. He's incredible. But when he's on his back and the pressure's on and the gas tank is wilting, he's going to have to answer in those moments to be able to get up and to be able to neutralize there. That's to me, is where the fight is going to be won or lost because, yeah, they have to start each round on the feet. And yeah, if you can see the future and tell me it's a kickboxing fight, well, good luck. Good luck to Mahachev. But history tells you he's going to get you where he wants. Now it's up to you to show us what you can do three and a half, four rounds in when he's been laying on you that all fight. This may not be an exciting fight.

It also may be a dominant Mahachav win just as much as I can imagine him getting finished in the second round with a shot he didn't see coming. But prove to me, show me that he hasn't been this guy up to this point outside of that loss, which is 12 fights ago. And look at who he is now. Sometimes you have the type of game that just levels up. He has that type of neutralizing game. Yeah, to me it's the chaos clause. how does Mockachev deal with the chaos? Because I agree, this fight's getting to the mat.

Islam is going to take him down and he's going to win rounds that way. It's just a matter of when it happens. Because I think Oliver has 10 minutes, maybe 12 at the most, to put out as much chaos as possible. Like, Islam Mokachev is a very strong thunderstorm. It's consistent.

It soaks you. You have to stay inside. It's horrible to drive in. It's consistent. You know what to expect. But Charles Oliver is a friggin hurricane. He's a tornado. And we may not last long, but it's devastating.

So I'm curious how Islam can deal with that because we're going to see that. We're going to see Charles make this ugly. We're going to see him try to invoke as much chaos in this fight for as long as he can. But to me, the longer the fight goes, the more it favors Islam machia. But everything on paper that I look at

tells me that Islam is going to win the fight. But I still feel like Charles can just turn things chaotic and make this really, interesting. And I don't think he's got a lot of time to make that happen. But man, I just have, that's like the biggest question for me. How is Islam in a traditional martial arts competition, Islam is going to win this fight almost every time. But how is he going to deal with it? How is he going to deal with that chaos? That's my biggest question. I mean, A.K., let me throw it to you here. It's not my show, but I'll take the wheel. Like the other guys on this incredible win streak,

we're kind of willing to take the bait, right? You know what I mean? Gae, Chandler. I mean, these guys want to F around with you, right? Machab, don't do that. How, you know, give me the side where Charles is just going to magically lure him into that. Okay, I don't think he needs to lure him in. Like I said, the whole thing is Islam is, we can talk about him, maybe being disciplined,

maybe having a different demeanor than a Gaetje or Justin Porre or Michael Chandler. He's not a brawler. I mean, no one would describe him as a brawler. That's certainly not a thing. But he is aggressive. He is going to come forward. He is going to shoot in.

he is going to take the fight to Charles Olivaara. And Charles Olaver has no problem with that. He's, like, as Mike has kind of suggested, he is going to invite him to bring his best. We might see a really strong first round from Mokachev. I could see like a 10-8. He gets Charles down and it is just wamping on him. But when Charles doesn't go away and when Charles starts fire, gets his chance to fire back, I need to know how Islam deals with that.

Because we know, we know, again, the whole quitter narrative with Charles is, out the window, if it ever should have existed. It is out the window since he became champion. He gets hit. This guy bleeds. This guy gets rocked and he comes back firing. I don't know how Makachev deals with that kind of pressure. Such a great fighter, so dominant.

But the big question we ask in a lot of these fights, when you have someone whose resume has been questioned, as Islam has is, well, what happens when you get hurt? What happens when you get stung? When you get burned, when your feet are on the fire. And I'm not questioning, again, I'm not getting ahead of myself. here and saying, I don't think Islam can deal with that. But it's a whole different thing than, again, running through a Bobby Green, running through

a Dan Hooker, being able to control guys like a Davy Hamos on the ground. You know what I mean? Solid names, good fighters, not Charles Olivera, not the kind of guys who can hurt him like Charles Oliverer did. So I don't, and I sincerely doubt he just puts him way in the first round. Like I said, could be a 10-8, huge, impressive first round for the challenger. But guess what? the would-be champion has five rounds to work with.

And I think he's going to really take it to Islam from rounds two to five. Dude, his last five opponents, Charlie's last five opponents wanted it. They wanted the sex guys. They wanted the craziness. That's how they're wired. They can't avoid it. Islam is too disciplined to allow this to become a Charles Olivera fight. I think you guys know that at the end of the day.

I think if you want to look in the mirror, you understand it. The octagon does not care what a fight. fighter wants Brian Campbell. The octagon says if the octagon demands chaos, if the octagon demands violence, then violence and chaos there shall be. And I think Machachev is going to find this out on Saturday, unfortunately. I'm not saying it's going to work, but Oliver is just so good at it and that he can lure anybody into it. It's not just Chandler and Poria and Gaichi. Even at points like Porre didn't even want to engage in that, but it just had no choice. He just got punched in the face and it rocked his ass,

and he had no choice but to dive into the circus. And I'm not saying Mokachev's going to do that, but if Oliver is able to get there, even for five seconds, will Islam just take him down and dump him? Or will he just be like, whoa, I'm a little rattled here. What do I do?

Do I just dive back at, like, and I think Islam could strike with him. Like, I don't think it's like, if we're going slap fighting, shot for shot, he's not going to win that battle, but Charles leaves himself open for things that Islam does very,

very well on the feet. So I'm curious to see what happens, especially with Mockachev on the feet, how long is he willing to keep it standing? But with all of this BC, the legacy question comes up, a ton when it comes to this fight. More so for Al-Avera, because we got the comparisons to the resume of Habib, will he be the greatest lightweight of all time? If he's able to beat this wrecking machine, that is Islam Makachev, who, coincidentally enough, is coached by Habib.

Some people view the undefeated record, the 29-0 more than anything else, because Oliver has suffered more than a few losses. So in your eyes, is Oliver the dude in the long-storied history of the UFC's 155-pound division if he wins on Saturday? Or like, where is he at if the answer's not yes? It would be hard to say anything negative about where he stands in lightweight history, where his turnaround stands and sort of feel good for somebody who's been here for so long. And does this be his 32nd UFC fight? I mean, it's just ridiculous.

But, you know, Chuck Mindenhall on one of our morning combat shows, I think said it best, He's like, look at this five-fight stretch. Okay, maybe we don't want to call him the best lightweight ever. I mean, Habib just walked through that door and left, but he's still kind of here too in a way. But this run of five consecutive opponents, I mean, really, what are you going to compare it to? It was maybe John Jones beginning with the Hua fight when he won the title,

that five straight fights against current or former champions, or maybe that Amanda Nunes stretch, and there's two of them, but even those five fights, you had a Rocky Panningtoner, you had somebody else thrown in that takes away a little of the value. I'm not, you know, when he fought Tony, Tony was coming off the loss to Gaichi, but he still had something and had something to prove. I mean, he didn't even get finished with any finished in succession, one after another of not only our favorite action heroes, but guys that are going to be considered, you know, all-time great sense to some degree.

You know, whether the Chandler, Poria, or I'm sorry, whether the Chandler and guys like Gaetia, whether they end up winning the title or not, they've been right here, they've been through this. If you add the freight train that is Mahachev, and because of the promise to mother and father, which I respect, we're probably going to never see Habib versus versus Charlie Olives. If he beats Habib's boy, who's on an 11 fight win streak and kind of looks like Habib 2.0, although he's a little bit different,

but still the domination is the same. The intention is the same. Damn, because it's not just that he'd extend that win streak and add another fighter and go to six straight fights of just kind of escalating. It's the career turnaround mixed in. It's the fact that he's made himself so dangerous on both sides of the game, right?

He's an involved fighter. He's grimy and finds ways to win, like in round two against Porreier when he covered his mouth and just laid on him. If he, seriously, I think this is as tough a challenge as he's had in this win streak. Seriously, because of the style contrast and everything. But what has Oliver have been able to do? Tiptoe, you know, through the fire in just dramatic and ridiculous ways. And by the way, that same tiptoeing is what is making me want to, you know, bet against him here. because it's like if anybody's going to make you pay for that or neutralize that

or not let you get into that chaos as we talked about, it's certainly Mahachev. But if he comes out and finishes Mahachev and you just add that on to the record for most finishes and most submissions, damn, we just watched a guy, you know, completely evolve and butterfly in our face. It was always a good fighter. Had some issues. He always one of the best fighters we've ever seen.

Yeah, this is a big fight for Charlie Oliver's reputation. and legacy. And a lot of us doubted him each step of the way. And here I am doubting him again. But we're going to have to put a crown on his head. I don't know exactly what that crown is, but crown him. Because this is the big time. And even with missing weight, even with Habib retiring, didn't get to fight him. He's fighting everybody who's willing and able and he's finishing them. Damn. He doesn't even tiptoeing through the fire. He's frigging doing the disco shuffle through the fire. He's dancing. He's doing the worm through it. He loves it. Loves the fire.

A.K., I will ask you the same question, but I think BC opened the door for you to just sprint right through. He said, Habib ain't coming back. There you go. Legacy, what does this all mean? Go on your rant. First of all, with respect to, you know, BJ Penn, Frankie Edgar, Habib. Brian is not wrong that Charles Olivera's current run is pretty damn incredible. Listen, I love BJPen. I'm a huge BJPen guy. And his resume still holds up. I know people will look back and go like, oh, Canny Florian. And people don't remember Sean Shirk at all. But these were super high level wins at the time.

And he dominated these guys. Like he dominated Kenny Floreen, dominated Sean Shirk. So it really can't be stressing up how, what a powerful and great lightweight champion, BJ Penn was in his prime. He liked to bounce between weight classes. There was certainly a question about his motivation sometimes. So that is like a dent in why if people want to say Charles Olivaire is ahead of him. already, I don't blame you.

This run Charles on is insane. And Charles also, maybe not as dominance, but I mean, the fact that he's finishing people in exciting fashion, I mean, that highlight real looks pretty damn good when you throw it together. But yes, the reason I'm so not pressed to declare that, you know, what Islam will become if he beats Charles or what Charles will become if he beats Islam is because we all know Charles will get the chance to definitively prove that he's the greatest lightweight of all time. the only question is, Mike, how quickly will Habib come out of retirement after Charles Oliver chokes Islam unconscious? That is my question. That was the question I wanted to bring up right at the

beginning of this segment, but I wanted to respect the context of the question first. But now I'm going on my rant, as you said, I'm allowed to do, and choke him out. Habib will be there. Yes, he's made his promises. He's a man of honor. He does not want to break a promise to his mother, the promise he made to his father. And I understand this. He has said, he has, not said one time. He has not hinted at like any interview that he has any interest in coming back and fighting again. I get it. I understand all these things, all these logical, truthful points that are constantly brought up to me. I think when he sees his boy get taken out by Doe Bronx and an actor Charles Alvara, who has done a fine job of playing the heel, by the way, at times during this Abu Dhabi

fight week, stick with that heel attitude, call him out, choke Islam out and say, your next buddy, you're next. Get those fires burning within the eagle. Get those wings flapping again, as it were. He will fight. I have wanted to see him a Habib fight for so long. I am not giving off on making this happen. If Habib wants to stay retired, fantastic, good for him. He deserves it. He owes nothing to this business. But as a selfish, selfish, selfish fan, I need to see this fight happen. And I think he can do it if he brutalizes Islam. That's a tall order, but I've been riding this train for a while. I ain't getting off this train, Mike. We will see him fight Habib. Then all questions of who is the greatest lightweight of all time will be answered.

We don't need to discuss it on any more shows ever again. It will be Charles if he beats Hobie. I mean, amazing, right? Like, I'm always labeled as the romanticized pro wrestling fan storyteller and all my on-air relationships. But it's like, A.K., if you're going to go the pro wrestling route, at least hammer it home and make it happen. I mean, the only way this Rocky Four scenario is going to play out. I don't wish ill will on Mahachev is if, you know, creeds laying in, in Rocky's arms, basically, not a death. Whereas, you know, look, Oliver didn't sell this storyline.

He hasn't been. If he had been doing a McGregor job on Habib and Islam and Dagestan in general and really being dirty and grimy and then finished him and then crotch chopped over his face, I mean, if you're going to go pro wrestling, really go pro wrestling. The way you set it up is too soft. And I don't know if you don't understand Habib and what he comes from and what he stands for.

And I'm not necessarily like some Habib, you know, superfan, the greatest guy of all time and the greatest fighter. But when he made that promise to mother and father, he fucking meant that shit. I mean, you better believe that. He walked away at the peak of his earning and commercial prime from the rub of the McGregor mixed with this run of unbeatenness. So he's only going to come back if his boy gets, you know,

embarrassed and destroyed. That's not going to happen. Okay, there's a little too much pro wrestling there. He respects that too much. Is the competitor in Habib, personally do I think upset a little bit that Charles Oliver is getting all this pub immediately after he walked away when all this generation, why do we have this stereotype that Charles Oliver is a quitter? Because all these guys came up with him and they watched him, you know,

lose and Miss Wade and quote unquote be a quitter. So they don't have a great, you know, respect for him in that regard. Well, if he beats Machev, they're going to start talking about him higher. But I think even those, you know, comparisons to Habeeb knows what he accomplished. He knows at the end of the day, he has the wild card in the back of his pocket because he walked away when he still had it before he fully accomplished everything yet. And this might be why the great Kirk Obain is considered one of the greatest songwriters and changed the history of rock and roll. Although for all we know, he could have put out, you know, some some fat albums for the next few years and put Courtney on there and they could have been awful, you know? But he walked away,

under bad circumstances, at the peak of his powers too. But people's always going to have that in a debate of greatest lightweight. And while I love me some BJ Penn, you said there's a dent in the argument for him. Well, there's a major dent because he largely stayed between two divisions, which is why it's hard to call him the greatest lightweight or the greatest Walterweight of all time. If we're going to put him in that conversation for number one for lightweight, then I think I got to be allowed to bring up Randy Couture again as greatest heavyweight. Because every time I do that, people laugh at me. It's the romanticized, you know, old guy who was a warrior and was everything we used to love about the sport.

Of course, right? And, you know, and he's still fighting at the Lavashack. You can pull up and check it out, you know, outside of the governor race. But if Charles wins this, yeah, he's in the conversation, you know, with Habib for Greatest Lightway. And shout out to Frankie Edgar, too. But that ain't enough to get Habib to turn back. He walked away on top. Dano courted him for six months with milk boys bags and balls probably.

He probably was ready to sacrifice animals in front of him, do whatever it took to get this guy back. He's not going to break, okay? He's not going to break. And by the way, when. Mahachev wins on say, I think he's going to win. I'm not here against Charles Oliver. If he wins, I can't wait. Fantastic. Six in a row at this, just so stupid.

His win streak's insane. But if Mahachev wins, you know they're getting Connor up in the bullpen and trying to build to that and do the Habib thing all over again. You know that, okay? Habib's not walking through that door. He's a coach now. He's a promoter. All right? I mean, come on. You know, I love me some pro wrestling, but it's going to take a lot more than him choking out Mahachev to win.

No, Maha'bib's staying put, all right? Yeah. What are we doing? I just want to say, I stopped short of book a fatality to make my fantasy matchup between Olivera and Habib happened. That's a line I wasn't willing to cross so I concede that. The other thing I wanted to bring up with Habib is, yeah, he went out on top, and that's great. But here's a problem with MMA. And we have talked about this on many other shows.

MMA, unfortunately, in large part, is terrible at respecting and maintaining its history. So yes, we talk about the Rwandicatures. Yes, we talk about the GSPs. We took up with the BJ Penzes, the BJ pen pens, the BJ, anyway, the BJs. But within two years, someone else comes along and without even having to fight those people, puts together a run and people are talking about. This is what's happening with Charles Olivaire now. Now, Habib is recent enough, and he's been in headlines enough, and he still comes up in discussions

enough that sure, he's still, you know, people will, rightfully, you know, maintain he's the best lightweight. But give it another year, give another 18 months. And people just forget, again, this industry. is so, so bad at preserving its past champions. And I don't know if that will bother Habib at all. He might not care. But going out on top in MMA and combat sports, really general, is a temporary thing.

It's a nice thing to do. It's, again, it's great that Habib did it. But that should not be enough, I feel like, or it won't be enough to satisfy him. When all this Charles Oliver is the greatest talk, or whoever, or if Islam beats him, then someone else comes along beats Islam, and then they take the talk.

maybe it's not Charles, maybe it's someone else. But I am maintaining that it will be Charles, and we are going to get that fight with Habib, so I won't back down from it. As neat as a Habib story would be that we just put a bow on it. I don't think, I don't think there's a bow on it. Can I cut back in one second here? Can we pop a myth?

Look, I'm always out there to tell you when Dana White screws up or when the UFC's being overlords and all that. But can we chill on the MMA doesn't recognize or love its past idea? Here's why that's false, okay? there's two major reasons. One, sports only been around for like 28 years, right? And it's evolving so quickly that it's impossible to hold hoist Gracie up. It's like saying, you know, Babe Ruth compared to Barry Bonds.

You can't make that comparison. The sport is changing so fast and GSP ushered in an era of actual formed, fully formed mixed martial artists. It's happening so fast in front of us. But number two, the real reason is because Dana-Wain Company hate recognizing that there was a past, not only before they bought the company and pushed SEG and everyone who ever succeeded they're out, but they really love to play and hoist up the people that have come to prominence, like in their very recent modern era to show, you know, like look at us.

And so, you know, BJ Penns and Randy Couturez that came from the other generation don't get that same, you know, treatment and documentaries on them and always, you know, compared to them. So that's really, that sets a tone at the top. I don't think any of us have any problem remembering and bringing up names when they're good, but this sport has changed It's so quick that it is becoming harder to even look back at guys in Penn's era, for example, even though he had a lot of badass qualities that would have been timeless and legitimately try to compare them to guys now. But he's tapping all those guys. Only he's not going to tap them ever again because he's retired.

He's not taking the money. He's not taking anything. He respects mother and father. Respect that for him. I cannot wait for this fight. I cannot wait for this fight. All of these burning questions we have will be answered for the most. part, but there's a lot more meat to this bone that is UFC 280.

So the point for round two goes to, I got to say, A.K. was clearly watching too much AEW. So when B.C. came back and fired back his retort, I'm like, all right, he's cruising to a round here. And then he threw the Connor thing out. I'm like, damn it, B.C. is watching A.E.W.2. But it wasn't enough. B.C. gets the round. It's one to one. How are we doing?

That's not for wrestling. That's business. And you know this, Mike. Heck. You know business at the end of the day, okay? You're from New England. You get it, all right? Yeah, well, I have no interest to seeing that. Charles and Connor, I think there's a better chance of that happening. I was just trying to honor the great Chris Jericho with my promo, Mike, your favorite wrestler, your favorite wrestler in the business. Love Chris Jericho.

I know you do too. So just, you know, I hope you have that in mind for rest of the show. No, you didn't say I'm the best. I need to be booked in the top spots. I need to be in every main event. That's Chris Jericho. But let's talk to the rest of the card or as much time as we are allowed here. Co-made event.

Al J. Dillelishaw. B.C., this fight on paper is really interesting. But you know what? No one's talking about it. Nobody's talking about it. Everyone's talking about the fight that precedes it in the same division between Piotr Yan and Chano Malley.

Things got a little dicey after the presser between those two guys, so I see that trend continuing on. But this title fight, which stylistically is super intriguing, why is this flying under the radar so much? And what are your thoughts on the match of itself? I mean, okay, maybe because both personalities, I mean, they can get, both personalities can talk a little bit,

and they've been part of trash talk builds. Garbrandt, TJ's been great, but, you know, neither one has really stood on the podium and played any sort of pre-fight hype to a certain level. There's been a little good back and forth, but I think compared with, look, Mahjav could get stamped literally the next could be right in front of our eyes if he wins against Charles, who is so popular, rightfully so right now,

and on such momentum, you add the O'Malley factor in there, you add a loaded card. Maybe you add that, even though I just knocked over my light, But this fight card is a, you know, it's a hardcore fan's dream. But on the same commercial level, I mean, it just doesn't have that one commercial figure. So I think it's been very split across the board in terms of each fight or each individual getting a high amount of love. This is among the best fights you can make in the entire sport. And it's getting hidden here and it's going to be a gift to all of us in the co-main event spot.

And it's got one of those kind of cool narratives where it's current champion against former champion who technically never lost his bill. Now, any analysis I'm going to make about T.J. Dillishal is largely going to be positive because I felt even during his run in and out of title wins that people have always kind of underrated him and not realize how great he is. And when I do that, you'll come back and say drug tests. And I'll say, yes, you're right. And I'll also say that he did his time. And I'll also say that there's something ridiculous about this guy that I don't think he gets credit for at the end of the day. He wants to win so freaking bad. We'll be a lot. We'll that yeah, he'll be a filthy cheater.

And I think he's cheated probably a lot more than the times he's gotten caught. And I think most of our heroes, even on this card, are probably cheating too. Because if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying. And sometimes you got to stay up with the others. But even if we want to live and believe that the only people that do drugs are the ones that fail,

even with that separate, let's give respect to who T. He's 36. He just sat out two years after getting knocked out by Sohudo. And a fight he shouldn't have taken, but he's so damn competitive and so about it that he did it. And then he came back. destroyed his knee in the first round against Sanhagen and not only wins this,

okay, disputed, but this gnarly, badass fight has to just be so grimy and change his game plan and lean on strength and just find a freaking way to win. And he did that. And then he missed a year again and had double shoulder surgery and knee surgery. And now he's back shredded like he took every single drug.

And if he did, then more, if he could pass, then more props to you. and I think, look, the odds are basically telling you it to pick him. Al Joe's a slight favorite. It's not getting the love, maybe for all the reasons I said, but it should. And if Aljo wins this and on the run he's been on and having put that DQ away and

change the way we talk about and look at him from what he did against Jan and the rematch, I mean, look, he's among the palm for pound best in the world. But if T.J. wins at 36, overcoming all those hurdles and is now a three-time champion, as much as podcast listeners, podcast listeners freaking hate when we fill time every other day by trying to say, does this fight,

does declare the goat in this weight class? We just did that with freaking Olivera. Well, I think T.J. is the greatest man and win of all time if he wins here. And you're always going to have the drug test and I never even thought he lost to Dominic Cruz. I never thought lost to his son-sow.

He's been great and he's still great. And it's a little bit scary. And I think he's going to win on Saturday. And maybe it won't get the love it should. But to me, his potential storyline. I mean, O'Malley winning by knockout and getting a title shot and fulfilling his, you know, march and rise would be pretty damn compelling. But I think T.J. Dillishal's got a chance against a guy who's criminally underrated in Sterling. But yet when you match up the

styles, you match up the grittiness between them and you look at the fact that if T.J.'s body doesn't fail him in getting there, he very much can win this fight and can potentially neutralize Sterling and kind of make him look one-dimensional in ways that even Yon couldn't, when Sterling was constantly on his back. I don't think you're going to see that with Dillashaw. He's got a chance to win this weekend. And I think this story, it's always going to be jaded with the drug use. Even if he's using it's still pretty damn incredible at 36.

Watch out. This is big business to me on Saturday in terms of history and legacies here. TJ's all in, man. All freaking in. Al Jermaine Sterling, minus 175 favorite, according to our friends of Draft Kings, Dillishaw plus 150 dog. I'm stunned that the line is this. lied for Aljo. Like, it's not like minus 800, but it's still, I thought T.J. would be lying closer,

maybe be the favorite here, okay? So why do you think this fight, AK, is not getting this much to, is because there's no emotional attachment to either guy because it's like heel versus heel. No one, even when Aljo becomes the baby face, he does stuff and it like takes that down? Like, what is it? And do you agree with B.C.? That if T.J. Dillishaw wins this fight and becomes a three-time Bannamoy champion. Is he the greatest Bannamoy of all time? I'll say, like, even, I say he does need to win this as cemented. I think in my eyes he kind of already is.

I thought he won the Cruz fight. Then again, you can make an argument he lost a San Hagan fight, which is, you know, a bit of a blemish now. But I'll get to that more in a second. I want to say that why people aren't interested, it sucks because skill-wise, amazing fight. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Both guys, super well-round and mixed martial artists,

but also have specialties. You know, Aljo, well-rounded, amazing grappler, great wrestler. Dijilshaw has great wrestling too, but has become, you know, one of the best strikers in a division full of incredible strikers, has knockout power and all that. So they've got distinct in-cage identities. They also have distinct out of the cage identities, unfortunately, and they both pretty complicated their sort of reputations and legacies. And I wish it was more simple because Al-Joe, for the longest time, was like, unappreciated. I think people forget when he couldn't even get on like a main card. For whatever reason, the UFC just would not book him on a main card.

This is a young guy who appeals, who as eye-constinks appeals to a different demographic that the UFC we should be interested in. Good looking guy, very comfortable on the mic. Not always a super exciting fighting style, but definitely exciting grappler. Some of his stand-up battles a little forgettable, that's fine. But generally, a pretty decent highlight reel. I couldn't understand for the longest time why they weren't pushing him. And I think other fans of Al Jemey and Sterling felt the same way.

So there was an underdog element to him there. Then he fights away at title shop, becomes the champion. But the way he becomes champion tarnishes him forever. There is a segment of fans now who will always view him as the actor, as the guy who won the title by D. And he has to own that. That's fine. That is how it happened. That's how it went down.

Again, I never blamed him for not continuing out to that knee. There's a large portion of fans who will always, always think that he took a shortcut to winning a title, which I think is incredibly unfair, but that is a narrative that exists. I can't deny it's not there. And then it looms over his entire title run. Even after a very good second fight with Peter Yan, which some people felt he lost,

there's still this view that he's just not the real champion. The stuff with Andrew Tate that happened this week, whatever, mileage may vary. Like, again, I think it's awful. But there's, let's be honest, there are fans who probably like him more after that. There are some MMA fans who are very much into that sort of thing and probably support Alger even more.

So to say that's a mark on his name, I don't know. I think it is. That's more of the subjective opinion thing. T.J. on the other side should also be an incredible story. A two-time champion, who, again, is in the later stages of his career, coming back to get his chance to fight for the title. The only problem is he's coming back from a drug, you know, a drug suspension, one that he admitted to, but it doesn't matter. It's like someone running around, like if they admitted to, oh, I like kicking people in the groin. And yeah, I've been kicking people in the groin for years. And I admitted to it. It's like, you're still kicking people in the groin. You're still a jerk. They're still a jerk. So he still cheated.

I don't care that he admitted it. You could speculate whether he cheated in other fights. That's fine. We know he tested positive for this one fight. And that's a mark on him. And it should be inspirational. UFC has tried to push it that way. They did a whole documentary on Fight Pass about his return, this champion returning

and having to come back from this trial that he's responsible for. And so that's a big reason. It should be two guys and inspirational stories, but it's not. It's two guys who we know very much why they are in the positions they're in, why people view them the way they do. And it's kind of hard to get into that. So I love the fight on paper, but I don't blame people at all for going like,

I don't like either of these guys and I don't care who wins. I just want to see who fights them out of the Peodor-Jon-John-O-Malley fight. Now, for the sake of time, I was going to talk a little bit about Jan O'Malley. Everyone's talking about that fight. So I want to give you gentlemen the opportunity

to shout out another fight. So, AK, we're going to start with you. Outside of the top three fights, what's the best fight on the, card. Which one are you personally looking forward to the most? Which one do you have the most questions about and why? I don't know what I don't want to say this will be the best fight. It might not be super entertaining, though I think if she wins, I think she, I think it will be because it is an entertaining fight. So I am talking about Manon Firo and Caitlin Chukagian. We talked about

at the top of the show how tricky Chukagian is. But again, I think power punchers, people with a big athleticism advantage can fare very well against her. I think both those traits are, Mano Fero has them. I think she's a great athlete. I think she hits really hard.

I just think she'll, if it's a striking battle and all of Chagin's fights are, I think Fero can do more damage, can put on a more convincing performance will be more aggressive. And I want to see that. And the other thing is,

I think she's the most guaranteed to get a title shot. I know people are saying, Sean O'Malley, his division, though, is so deep. I still think something weird could happen. He also gets hurt quite a bit. He could win the fight and still be out and then be out for like six months.

He suffers little injuries here and there. Would not surprise me if he goes five rounds with Piotr-Jon and comes out a little worse for wear. So for me, it's Manor who has the most to gain is guaranteed a teleshot. Vanil Derrush, I wish it was the case with him again, the four guys, the most tragic lightweight ever. He may never get it. He could knock out Gambrot in 30 seconds and probably still not get a tell a shot.

So, yeah, so I'm going with Manon. There's also a little bit of mystery there still. Like, we've seen her enough, but she's only like 10 fights into her pro career. So we still don't quite know who she is yet. She's a bit up there in age, but as far as May years go, pretty youthful. So it's possible, listen, this could be a classic 29, 28, you can win, and I'm blowing all this smoke for nothing. But I'm a believer that Fiora can put on a show. And that's why this fight is so intriguing to me, because I do think if anyone's guaranteed a title shot, it is the French, this French,

prospect. BC, do you agree with that or is there something else that stands out? No, I mean, I certainly agree that that has the biggest stakes from the below the O'Malley fight down. That's the most important one. But the best fight and the most intriguing one is the featured prelimbao

in the welterweight division, Sean Brady Bilal Muhammad. This is a fun division again and a crowded, uncertain cloudy title picture at the moment and is Tremaya are going to be a middleweight or a welterweight? and are we getting this trilogy bout?

And there's this next generation of fighters who are ready to move in. And Balal's been here for a while, but it's still looking for that big breakthrough when Sean Brady is less accomplished but is coming on at 15 and 0. This is a, this would be a badass fight night main event. I mean, this could, this could even be a mid-level pay-per-view co-main event. It's such a great fight. And I love this type of storyline when you got Balal going, okay, I got this aggressive wrestler coming in.

So, you know, I'm going to, probably call up Ali at dominance and, you know, and, oh, Gay Habib, you busy that night? You want to train me too for this? I mean, that's very intriguing because this is such a style contrast to begin with with Sean Brady's wrestling against Bilal's striking and pace. And now you add in the Habib factor, whether that means nothing or it's just pro wrestling salacious.

You know, I'm down for that for sure. But, you know, we had Sean Brady on our morning combat room service diary show. And, you know, there's substances acquired and used during that show by some members of the staff. and team. And, you know, I made this bet where if he wins his next fight against a top 10 guy, I give up my fare of needles and get a tattoo in Philadelphia with him after eating tacos. So, you know, I like needles as much as I like black licorice and, you know, chicks with tattoos. You know, I don't like them at all. In fact, you know, they're spiders, too. I mean,

these are some of the worst things in life. But, you know, I'm going to go under the needle if Sean Brady does this. And I think as good as Sean Brady has looked, he also has to answer big stuff, too. you know, is he a guy that can fade late? Was that he has to fight a advertisement or a harbinger of doomed to come? Or is this guy just so gritty and dialed in and such a hard worker where if he can make this a fight in his direction, can it be one side? Can he make this leap?

There's a badass fight guys with two very hungry competitors on either side. So this has potential to maybe not win the night with the names we have above it, but to the winner being able to make a big ass leap into the top there. So I'm looking forward to it. Love that fight to incredibly defensively sound wrestlers. So I wonder if we're just going to see 15 minutes of face punching. There's a lot of interest in this fight. I can't wait to see it.

So much greatness on one card. I just love it so much. And don't forget, we can all watch the main card together on Saturday. UFC 280 watch party, myself, G.C. Connor Burke, some special guests starting at 145 Eastern on this here channel. It's going to be ridiculously fun. We move ahead to another piece of news. Thank you.

that has people talking. The point for round three goes to... He might fear needles, but he doesn't fear AK. B.C. It's two to one. I don't. I don't, and I won't. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what?

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Conditions apply. All right. this has nothing to do with UFC 280 we found out last week i believe about eight days ago maybe a little less the rematch for the light heavyweight title between yuri prehashia and glover tashire is going down ufc 282 in december first fight was incredible second fight still very interesting but we don't know if it is going to be the main event or not this card also currently has fights so we pull it up like Jan Bahovic and Magabedankalive, Darren Till versus DDP,

Drick's Duplessi, Bo Nichols debut and some other deuses as well. But could there be another big one added? So we've been talking about this for a while. Ariel Hwani reported on the MA hour that the UFC is making one last big push to try to get John Jones on this car. Now,

Francis Ngano is not going to happen because the dude just had knee surgery. It's going to be almost impossible to get him on this card. Plus the contract stuff, et cetera. way too risky. So the idea would be if they had their druthers, John Jones versus Steepei Mietich

on this card if we can get everybody together if the finances are right. I have thoughts and lots of them about this idea and I'll put those out there in a moment but AK I want to begin with you does this UFC 282 card as it stands

year end pay per view does this need John Jones? When UFC doesn't need I think if there's anything I think as with anything we've discovered during John Jones's absence is they don't need him for anything. I don't know if there was a time where fans thought like, man, when he announced a heavyweight thing, there was certainly a lot of anticipation. I mean, there still is.

Whenever a fight actually comes anywhere close to being a reality, we might kind of get that excitement again. Because, listen, this guy is the greatest, I think. if you don't care about the cheating, which he did, I think he's still the greatest fighter I've ever seen. The guy just has the complete skill set, it's a great athlete. My prototype example of, man, if athletes from, if a high-level athlete that would normally go into another sport,

went into MMA and dedicated like to M.A., this is what you'd get. That's what John Jones is. And again, we saw how great he could be. Again, he's not just athleticism. It's his in-cage IQ. It's his ability to learn, his ability to pick up skills, the ability to execute those skills, his ability to exploit his opponent's weaknesses, to attack his opponent's strengths, both.

He's great at both. So even saying it, I'm getting a little excited yet. I remind myself, we are four months away, four or five months away from it being three years since John Jones has fought. And you can really, the number of show it, the UFC has only grown since that time, TV deals, sponsorships, social media chatter, exposure, all these things. They're working with the rock now. You know what I mean? They have an apparel deal with the rock.

Does it sound like they're missing John Jones? Does it sound they need John Jones for anything? UFC 282, again, now we're just looking at, you know, for a hardcore fan, I mean, to share a parochic, that's all you need. I mean, a rematch of one of the dumbest, best, most fun fights ever. In a perfect world, this would sell a million, you know, ESPN plus whatever pay-per-view buys. I don't know. I don't have that in Canada.

I don't know if you guys measure that. we know that's not going to happen. So if you're someone who still cares with that sort of traditional metric of pay-review buys, yeah, you're going to feel a little bit bummed out at the end of the year if you're a UFC bean counter and you see, oh, well, this thing barely made $500,000 or even less. But the UFC train is just keeps chugging along. It's going to keep, whether it has John Jones or not, whether it has Francis and Gondon or not. Again, two guys who people, whether they're fighting each other or they're fighting steep or someone else in the heavy division, people would love to see these guys compete. but do they need to see them compete?

No. And that is how the UFC machine works, right? We know this now. We know this now. So I don't think UFC 282 needs him at all. And personally, I'm so, even despite I just wax poetic about him, I'm pretty over. I'm pretty over this told John Jones thing. So I'll be excited when he comes back.

And if he never does, happy trails. Look, Alex, that is such a safe and soft take. You're not soft, okay? I mean, I can't reach around. A little bit. Yeah. That's such a soft take that does not actually represent what the UFC stands for and the type of business moves they make, meaning, yeah, okay, you could say, you know,

their sponsorships through the roof, they got this crazy ESPN deal, they're growing everywhere. But do you know what they lust for, rightfully so? The super fight. We haven't had as great as being an MMA fan is and being a UFC fan. The delivery of constant hardcore fan dream fights, you know, pretty loaded pay-per-views, although there's a stinker here and there. We all know that. I mean, pretty good fight night main events, a card every weekend.

That stuff's all great. But that stuff doesn't activate that one group of people who is the real gold mine, the casual fan, right? You know, Connor McGregor, it's been a minute since he's, you know, he fought Porreux and that was big business. But it's been a while really since Connor Habib, the best. biggest superfight in MMA history, since we've really had one of those, can't miss, don't have to explain the backstories to a casual fan.

Everybody knows these guys, and there's enough either history or bad blood or both mixed together with the star power and the stakes to make this one of those freaking fights, right? Cormier v. Jones was one of those freaking fights. We haven't really had those in a while. That's, UFC got to this point to where they have deals with Disney and ESPN because they know how to set the stage for those big swings and go after them. Does this card need John Jones? Well, I think for a couple of reasons, yes, separate from that. Number one, John's got a share or get off the pot. We've been waiting a while. And when he originally announced, we're like, oh, my God, he might

win the heavyweight title tomorrow. And then Ingano kind of became Ingano 2.0. And then, I mean, we've been through the emotional roller coaster already. It's time. Let's get him in the damn cage. Let's do this thing. He appears to be healthy and ready. What the hell are we doing? Is there a secret conspiracy suspension he had a certain? I mean, what the hell's going on here? Number two, I used to like to live in a day when UFC had majors, and they still kind of do, right? And, you know, New York City and November is a major. International Fight Weekend in July is a major. There's normally a March or April card, either Vegas or in Brooklyn for a while that are majors.

Well, you know, Vegas and December is a major to me. So let's get this on there. But back to my discussion about super fights. I need John to main event this card in an interim title fight against arguably the greatest heavyweight champion of all time in Stepe, Miochich. I don't feel like in Ghana's full. ready, not just the health of turning the knee around, but are they really there? Have they re-signed?

Is Ingano going to resign if he doesn't get the chance to box fury? What the hell is that going to look like? But if John goes in there and fights Stepe, and God, this is musty TV. This is not the crossover fan fight I'm talking about. If John wins the championship, the heavyweight interim championship in this fight, and then we start banging the drum for John Jones versus Ingano. Not only is that going to probably pull Angano back in no matter what. Am I wrong here?

I know that each guy separately hasn't been an overwhelming pay-per-view draw. But this is history, the current champ against the greatest fighter of all time who just moved up and won an interim title. And I know UFC doesn't do this because they don't think the production looks the same compared to an NBA arena. This is the type of fight you put in Raider Stadium in Vegas and make it a thing. They will come. This will matter. I think if you're UFC, just like I made that suggestion, no one wanted to hear that if Mahachev wins, we're starting to build the, we're starting to see where Conner's at and if we can make that fight.

I think Jones Ingano is the fight historically sell a million plus pay-per-view buys, really get the casual fan into it. So yes, you can't get there, in my opinion. Let's get John in there. Let's debut at heavyweight. Great fight with Stipe, a lot of history on the line. Jones versus Engano was where it's at. And they have the smart people in that war room who can see that and above and build to it. We're not going to play it soft and be like,

oh, we've given the fans, you know, good enough this year. Let's just give them that yeary fight. No, that type of attitude leaves you as maybe the third or second, if you're lucky, best MMA promotion of the moment. UFC's where it's at because there's a bunch of freaking agros in there, you know, with ARF in their office of a machine gun that has cocaine in it and all kind of weird shit and naked ladies on the walls. They think differently.

They make fights like Jones and Gano. Let's make it. Okay, this is the, this is the sex. Mike, I know that's a term you use a lot. This is the sex, okay? Let's enjoy it. Okay, so much like your Islam, Connor McGregor thing, I disagree with you here, but not like what we're getting towards, okay?

I understand this. I don't, and I'm talking about John fighting in December, and I'm talking about John versus Steepa. I don't like this idea, and I don't use the word hate that often, but I'm tiptoe on that line. And here's why, from all accounts, and I've talked to people about this as well, From everything that I've been told and for everything that's out there,

Francis Ngano, if he resigns and it's looking more likely than not currently, he will very likely be ready for March. The UFC is aware of this. They think March sounds like a good time. We have waited all this time to get to this point, to get to Francis versus Jones. And now that it's pretty much right there, we're six months away from there being a very good chance that happens.

We're going to entertain this other idea of doing John Jones v. Depe. Now, I'm not a moron, BC. I'm not a moron. If the UFC puts this fight together, I'm going to watch it. It gives a big jolt to this card. But I'll be watching it like this, biting my fingernails because it's just so damn risky to me. Because what if Steepai wins? What if he wins?

Sure, you can do the trilogy fight with Francis. But after watching what happened the last time they fought, not a ton of people are clamoring for that. And I don't even know how much interest Stepe Meitch has in fighting in general. If you did this fight in September or earlier in the year with everything with Francis' contract in a weird spot, sure, I understand it a little bit more. But to try to rush this fight to put it on this card with the hope that both guys make it to the fight, that nothing falls through, no one gets arrested, no one bitches about a contract, and that it goes perfectly for business and that John Jones wins and comes out relatively unscathed, you are asking the MMA gods to do a lot here. to me, B.C., and I'd love to hear your reaction, we've waited almost three years for John Jones to come back. We've waited almost three years for John Jones to come back

to fight Francis and Gano and be a heavyweight. What's three more months? What's three more months? Why do we have to do this now? I like that argument, because I'm making that same argument in boxing right now about Tyson Fury is coming back for a stay busy against Derek Chasor in a third fight. He already been twice, and he was talking about fighting Josh.

Dude, fight Usik for the four belts. He's going to be ready in March. Fight him, right? But I think in this case it's a little different. to me. This is why they get paid the big books to make these decisions, meaning in that war room, if they are going to do my idea and put Jones in against Steepa, then something about the research they've done has to let them know that they believe Jones will win that fight, and that it'll still be a big deal in a major pay-per-view, and it will still get us to

Inganu. In fact, I believe if they do that and Jones wins that interim title, that kind of puts the pressure on Inganu to go, oh shit, I lost a little bit of leverage. I should make this now, my opinion there. But I got a fix for you. I've always got a fix for you. Wait, there's more. Okay, what if they agree more with you? What if somebody raises their hand in the back and says, hey guys, you know, what if Sipe wins? How about this for a main event, December, same pay-per-view. John Jones makes his heavyweight debut. No, not in an interim title bout against Tai Tauivasa. I always said it would be Brock Lesnar. I always said from 2012 into about probably last year.

When John makes the heavyweight debut, you give him Lesnar. He's going to look great. He's going to knock him out. The whole world will watch it. Tuva's not Lesnar. But Derek Lewis is down at the moment. Dude, Tuivasa versus John Jones

has a replacement to the scared part of your brain that won't let you realize that Jones is going to beat Steepay and then we're going to fight Francis in a football stadium. How do you feel that, Mike? I mean, I hate it. I hate it less. I'll say that.

I'll hate it. Mike, now he's threatening us with a good time now. Now I'm... Brian, I like you. There's a reason I don't care people say about you. I knew there's a reason I liked you. I don't care of people say, but I knew there's a reason I liked you.

If anyone knows, I'm a huge tie to Ivasa fan. I want him to get all the big fights. For him to be rewarded for his, again, just his tie to Ivassanis with a John Jones fight fight would be so spectacular and so fun. It goes a little bit against your point of the whole UFC. I feel like, I don't know, we started off time about UFC super fights. This certainly would not be that. I think this might be the opposite of that.

It would be like a hardcore fan's delight. So I'm with you. I do wonder now how we've gone outside the criteria of the original question outside of the BTL parameters, as it were. But I do, I do, yes. You bring up Tai Tivasa in any situation. I'm almost always going to say yes. So you might be on to something there.

I'm not trying to concede a point here. I'm just saying you might be on to something. Okay, is this idea of John Jones versus Steve? a bad one. Is it a bad idea? Yes. Yes. Yes. Steve A, gosh, he's such a weird guy to judge because, again, fan perspective, a little frustrating at times to see kind of how inactive he is. He doesn't always want to play the UFC promotional game. On the other hand, how can you not respect that?

This is a guy who wants to make the most money he can in a division where you take a lot of damage in your fights. He's been in there with some super heavy power punchers. Why should he be rushing in there to fight like every three three you know three times a year he should like it's just not logical and especially if the compensation isn't there he's talked openly about his negotiations with the ufc about wishing you know they paid a little more money um just when you're not the champ when you don't have the belt anymore um so i i i can't blame him um i think he obviously if he gets that john jones fight he would be compensated at a championship level i would hope um this is assuming that you know francis gungan who's not gone they don't create some

interim title or something just to do it just to do it um but yeah on paper it just doesn't like intrigue me that much i'm with you mike on sort of the risk on what what what happens to the the job does it kill the john jones heavyweight journey before it begins uh if stepey takes care of business and and does what he does as a former champion it just beats john jones if john jones beats him it's great it theoretically sets up a bunch of future fights but again there's so much uncertainty at the top we don't know if that gives us the ingano fight i mean that fight by all accounts should happen Everyone wants to see it. Probably the number one fight, I would imagine,

most people want to see happen in the UFC. But we just don't know if it gets us there. So it's a dangerous fight. It has just very, very little upside. The only benefit is, we would at least finally get to see John Jones at heavyweight. But boy, do you want to throw them into the fires right away? Oh, come on.

Oh, come on. I couldn't disagree more. I don't know. It would give John the most amount of insane, instant critical respect. not only if he wins get the interim title, he beat the guy that we used to say was the greatest heavyweight champion in history. And also with the layoffs with Steepa,

and obviously, if you're going to back John here, you can't overlook the freaking layoff he's on. It's the longest I've ever been around. But Steepa hasn't been active. To your point, he's been in brutal wars. And the way Stepey wins fights, look, he's not going to dominate John wrestling. Could they get into a war and he can knock John out?

Of course, but John's not going to will. John's not going to fall apart. John's got a backbone, which is why he's been able to live so dangerously outside and then come in the cage and act like it's never happened and win those type of halacious fights when he needs to go there. I think this is probably the wrong matchup for Steve-B style-wise if John is plugged in and ready and is able to bring that speed and length to this division and strike with him. Plus it's a huge fight with huge, you know,

all that. I mean, come on, come on. Let's not, you know, it's not, is it dangerous if the idea is Inganu maybe, but oh, by the way, John could beat Steepay and Inganu could still be feeling a certain way and not resign. But then all you have to do is put John Jones versus Cyril gone at the Eiffel Tower and we're back, big business again. So look, the UFC's going to win in the end, no matter what. That's why they don't need to be scared about making fights that could, you know, ruin. They've got to be smart, but not scared, fellas.

Come on. These guys are savvy, all right? I'm savvy. I'm on, this is very savvy right now. Yeah, it's just an awful lot of, awful lot of what ifs, what ifs, what ifs, what ifs. But we got to move on because I do have to pick my child up at school in a little while. The point for round four goes to, I don't remember what exactly we all talked about, but I'm giving it to AK just so we can go to a final question because I am very excited.

I am very excited to discuss potentially either of these topics. So time for the knockout round. One question decides it all. Each individual of one minute to give their response. And they will turn it over to you, the peeps. You will vote for the winner. judge it in the poll, cast your votes, who will announce the winner in a matter of moments.

A.K., you're coming off the win here. What are we going to do? What are we going to do? Are we going first? We pass it over to BC? What are we thinking? Let me see, Mike. You know, I always go first,

but when you're facing someone like, as dastardly and sinister as Brian Campbell, you may have to rethink. You know, who am I kidding? I'm going first. Give me the, let me go. Let me go. Come on.

All right. So we've had two very weird, bizarre, bizarre, interesting stories that have kind of flown under the radar. So we're going to play a little game of what's the bigger story, AK. What's the bigger story? Option one, the Nevada Athletic Commission approving a Dana White run power slap league. And if you choose that, what you're interested in? What do you think of it?

Or the UFC adding to their, put me back on screen, Casey, put me back on screen. Put me back on screen. I got the quotes up. Code of conduct. Code of conduct. that UFC fighters, coaches, et cetera, can no longer gamble on UFC fights. What's the bigger story and why? One minute on the clock, go.

The bigger story right now is the slop fighting. I mean, this is not good. This is not good. People know I run, and I used to run with Jedmishu, this feature on MMA fighting called Miss Fis. And we love the freakishness of MMA in combat sports and the oddities. I'm pretty sure we actually never feature. I shouldn't say that.

probably a featured slot funny at some point. This is nasty businessman. It has been approved by the Nevada Commission. That does not mean it's going to happen everywhere. Yeah, the ABC has its own jurisdiction. But in Nevada, yes, we will have Dana White's power slap league. And yes, the jokes have made having Dana White's name, his last name next to the word power, maybe not the smartest business decision.

That's a problem. But it's not just how objectionable it is that I think is going to have people talking. I admit this does kind of open the door for the UFC to. to expand and have other kind of weird side projects under its portfolio. And while I hate slap fighting, this is kind of a cool thing and a great use for the UFC Apex now that they're branching out again. So what this means for their other projects and for the Apex is kind of what makes this such an important story. All right. We go over to BC and I have a feeling you might go the same direction, BC.

And boy, oh, boy, after all the pro wrestling talk. Oh, we're going the other direction. Okay. Well, no, we're going to go direction you didn't plan. Okay. Neither is a big story, but it's definitely not the slap shit bullshit here. Look, I always kind of clown down BKFC. They pull me in with their pro wrestling.

Their women's division is like a reality soap opera show with the trash talk. I don't really love it, though. I always considered it the last stop on the combat highway, you know, like when you're driving from L.A. to Vegas, and there's that one gas station in the middle of nowhere, and gas is like $9 a gallon, and you piss in that fountain, and they got all the weird sodas from around the world. But slap fighting is the bottom of the...

the fucking food chain. Like, that's as gross and weird as it gets. This is a rich man needing another, you know, project to spend and waste his money on, not dissimilar from Vince McMahon and WWF back in the day, starting the World Bodybuilding Federation and bringing Lex Lugar in and crossing over to both and thinking, no, wrestling fans will love this thing where these ripped guys come out and do music videos and homoerotic dances. And, like, it was weird.

And it was just a weird presentation of it. this slap fighting compared to what we do in the UFC is just freaking weird. The only way this is the bigger story is if Dana looks at all of his ex-fighters ending up in BKC and going, hey, at least we can give him work. I don't want to see like Vandoli Silva in his slap fighting league. I don't want to see slap fighting at all. I don't, this is weird. The other side of it is not a story at all. I mean, you're putting in rules to just block you, just like creating Usada, just like bringing in Usada.

You're just giving yourself, you know, an insurance coverage in there. It's not dumb for a company to build that in when all these fights are in Vegas and you don't want ever there to be impropriety and have a Tim Donahy situation. Makes sense. But come on, this slap fighting thing is weird and gross. It's not going to catch on a good distraction. It's the worst. It's the dumbest. I like a lot of dumb things.

And this is the dumbest sport possible. And if you end up, like, I swear, Dana, if I see Ben Rothwell in there and if I start seeing these guys in there, we're going to have a problem here, okay? Let these guys walk away. for good. Stop this bullshit. Anything you want to add, A.K.? Again, we're in agreement on this. This is, but, but I'll just add on again, like I said, hopefully this leads some other way. X arm.

If X arm comes back, then it was all worth it. Then it was all worth it. I wish they would invest in, I don't even know if they still have this thing, but there's a, and I just randomly found it after a couple of libations, probably like eight or nine years ago. It was on some weird channel, but it was just like they had, like fights, but they were hockey fights. And that was the whole show. It was just hockey fights. They would get on skates. They'd get in there and they would just have hockey fights. And it was like wildly entertaining. It's way more entertaining and way less scary to me than the stupid

slap fighting thing because at least one dude gets to adequately put his hands up and try to defend himself and still getting Maliwopped across the dome. But you know it would be cooler? You know, be cooler than that if Zuck pitched a robot fighting league, okay? That he designed himself and controlled with a radio control thing up in a booth where he couldn't catch any, you know, germs from us regular people. I'd be more interested in that than this absolute trash, okay? Well, this has been quite the show. I think this is the longest BTL in the history of the program, but it's okay. It's all right. We had a lot of fun here. And now it's time to vote. So cast your vote in the poll, get them in. Casey will come on in a moment. But quick programming

note tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern, heck of a morning. Twitter spaces, M.A fighting Twitter spaces will have some fun. Free for all Friday. We'll talk about anything and everything. Preview show, 12.30 p.m. Eastern, getting you ready for UFC 280. People's pre-fight show going down Saturday, 915 Eastern, I believe, in the morning, because we have a 10 a.m. start time. I believe that's going to be Jet and Casey, because I'll be on my way to New York. And then we had our watch party, 1.45 Eastern.

Me and G.C. live in the studio, special guests. Some good special guests, too, by the way. So get excited for that. and that we'll have the usual press conference post-fight show. And then AK and I are live on Sunday, back at it, on to the next one for some match baking. So that being said, let's bring on the next opponent for Mike the Truth Jackson, E. Casey Liden on the ones and twos, bad a stash at MMA media.

Let's make this fight happen. Casey, what are we thinking here? Out of the votes tab, do I need to waste more time or are we good here? I think we're good. I think we're good. Is BC done of his answer yet? I know we went over the minute timer, so I don't know. Wait, wait, you guys had rules in time here?

I thought this was a free-for-all, all right? Come on. All right, right, right. All right, okay, we got a winner. We have a winner. You're a winner today with 57% of the votes and still undefeated Brian Campbell. B.C. gets it done. Oh, man, he snaps A.K.'s.

Win streak. What a battle. I will say this, A.K., you could take solace in this. You did better than Dead Michoud did. I think Jed lost while BC was in the 60s. You got it to the 50s, so you, in fact, if this is a battle team, you and Jed, you won. You won. So you get a moral victory, AK. Is that enough? Does that feel good enough for you? Yeah, being told that I did better than Jet. Oh, hold on, hold on. Let's say, oh, wrong. where is it let's get the

where it is there it is being told I did better than Jen something is always livened to my spirits but not not as much as just right right there is not as much as yeah no no no it's good I'll stop I'll stop moving now

not as much as getting to compete and even lose to it esteemed competitor like Brian Campbell I know Brian's got to get the last word but I want to say I want to say I've been a Brian I've been a fan since I remember I remember messaging you I think after your first appearance on the M.M.A.B.

And, like, right away, you and Luke had this amazing chemistry. And I don't know if you guys, I assume you guys knew each other before. And I had planned to do a show eventually. But, like, to see that you guys are now doing morning combat and doing your own thing and winning awards, it's like not a surprise at all. So, it's such a great chemistry. I thought it was so cool when you did M.A. And that you guys doing this thing. So congratulations and all that, man.

I think that's so awesome. I appreciate that. Remember that episode 200 of the MMAB? Who would have thought your boy, B.C. I know I wasn't even that close to Luke. I still don't really like him that much, to be fair, but I appreciate him. Look, I'm happy to have won this. I saw a snuff film that looked a lot like this.

It was called Abib versus Edson Barbosa, and I think that'll be what Saturday's main event looks like, too. So place your bets with that. Thank you guys for having me back on. Did you say Jed Meshew retired? Because I want him one more time, because nobody's primier and dirtier than that piece of Dubb-T. And I know that he'll bring out the brass knucks.

Okay, I know that. But Alex, you have been a gentleman. And if this show had real a lot of times, you probably would have won. So like T.J, I cheat to win, baby, and I'm okay with that, okay? We talk about cheating all the time on our programs that they ain't going to call it. So you might as well just cheat your ass off because you're going to win pretty much every time. So thank you very much. What a show.

This is Ben. It is onwards to UFC 280. And I think we're all in agreement. That card frigging rules. You can hit the exit music. We are done back next week to recap all the chaos. of UFC 280 and beyond for AK, for BC, for Casey on the ones and twos. I am Mike Heck. Thank you for watching. Back next week. Good night, everybody. The iconic voice

semester Lynn takes you home. This has been Between the Link, a podcast on the Vox Media Network. Happy birthday, AK. The Vox Media Podcast Network. Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. You've seen Colonna change over the years, and it's growing faster than ever. The city is working to make sure enough homes are being built for people of all incomes and stages of life.

But growth isn't just about more buildings. It's about building community. Every new project helps us fund the things that matter most, safe and dependable infrastructure, transportation options to keep us moving, and beautiful parks where we can relax, play, and connect. Kelona is growing with purpose.