MMA Fighting - BTL | Conor McGregor Allegations, Ngannou-Jones Staredown Impact, UFC Jacksonville, More

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

Conor McGregor is currently part of season 31 of The Ultimate Fighter with the expectations of a fight with fellow coach Michael Chandler later this year, but the UFC star has found himself in the headlines for alleged legal issues.  On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel reacts to the allegations against McGregor and discuss the confidence levels in the fight with Chandler. Additionally, they'll discuss the winner of this past weekend between the UFC, Bellator, and PFL, and what kind of impact the staredown between Francis Ngannou and Jon Jones had, what to make of the UFC's middleweight division after Jared Cannonier's big win over Marvin Vettori, a potential matchup between Cannonier and Khamzat Chimaev, and where it all could leave Israel Adesanya for his next title defense, Saturday's UFC Jacksonville card headlined by Josh Emmett and Ilia Topuria, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Eric "New York Ric" Jackman and Alexander K. Lee. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer,

but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible.

We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. MAFATING studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand-new of BTL and thank goodness for her introduction because I just had a coughing fit due to the allergies here. So it worked up. Thank you very much, Esther, for giving me a second to recover. But thank you for joining us. We have a lot to talk about this week, ladies and gentlemen. So let's get right into it and introduce the combatants first. He's the challenger and he

already gets brownie points for showing up here on his day off. He's the Prince of Positivity, the co-host of On to the Next One and Tough Hang. He's my best. friend Dangnaman and he's excited for the NBA draft. Alexander Kingley. Hey, K.K. How are you? Best of luck to everyone. I'm great.

I'm very excited. It's NBA draft day when my favorite days of the year. Best of luck to all of you. May your picks be, uh, be superstars and not bust nor lemons. Very excited. Are you,

are you optimistic that they will, they will draft well? Listen, number 13 pick, Cory Bryant, Carl Malone, Dunham and Mitchell, Devin Booker. Just saying, it's got a better hit rate than some of the top picks in the top 10.

So I am excited. Number 13, Maasai, Bobby, don't let me down. It's the Celtics traded Marcus Smart. Don't know how I feel. We'll see what happens. But making his first title defense, ladies and gentlemen, is the man with the best theme song in MMA. And I have to say, after Tuesday's edition of Heck of a Morning, he might have overtaken Jed is the new Mr. Hot Take.

He is the BTL champion. He is New York Rick. Hello, sir. How are you? Mike, it's a pleasure to be here as always. It's also my day off, coincidentally, but there's no place I'd rather be than with you guys. I've even put on my glasses just so I can experience this as clearly as I possibly can and see you guys as perfectly as I can because there's no better way to spend the time. So I want to see your beautiful faces. Casey, Alex, Mike, you guys are the best. the ultimate baby face incredible incredible stuff so very positive introductions and let's just get into this thing because we usually like to stay on this trend we like to start with some fun stuff maybe a recap some more positivity but unfortunately first question first topic not really how that's going to play out today because since we last had this program and I believe this story broke like minutes after last week's show ended.

Connor McGregor is back in the news, the former two-division UFC champion, and it's not for good reasons. He is being accused of sexually assaulting a woman in Miami after game four of the NBA finals. Of course, we all remember what happened during the game, just cracking the mascot and putting the damn dude in the hospital. But this is a totally different discussion.

TMZ first report of the news, then released a couple of videos they received over the coming days after showing McGregor and the accuser together. And McGregor and his team have vehemently denied these allegations. The investigation is still ongoing. There are no charges filed thus far, whether it's civil or from a criminal perspective. So New York, Rick, obviously a lot to unpack here. These are allegations, like I mentioned, no charges.

And I know we need to be careful with how we word all this. but how did you react to this news? Because we basically just wrapped BTL and then minutes later, here we go. Yeah, it would be irresponsible to kind of speculate on any of the actions that actually occurred. Right now, it's just allegations.

As you mentioned, no charges filed. Connor McGregor seems to be proceeding with his life as normal based on continuing to post a social media accounts. So we really don't know what is going to play out here. But my reaction to the news itself was, unfortunately, here we go again. Like it at this point seems like this is the nature of what you're getting with Connor McGregor.

It seemed to me for a moment, the fact that they were able to wrangle him in for tough, maybe think maybe we're turning the corner, maybe he can be focused and keep himself out of trouble and get into the cage and fight. but there's there's time between that tough taping and the time that they have to fight and it appears to be too much. When when Connor McGregor is idle, it does not appear that good things happen. And there's no way to make light of something this, the accusations here. There's nothing. Even though it feels like this happens all the time, it does not mean that allegations like this can be just swept aside.

There's a very serious allegation being made. And obviously, there's still a lot to be played out. But unfortunately, yes, it does feel to me like just another one of these situations for Connor McGregor, unfortunately. AK, what do you think of all this? I mean, you're our boots on the ground virtually for the ultimate fighter. You've been watching McGregor coach and all that. And then this news comes out and just. It's, you know, pun intended, it's tough hang, isn't it?

Yeah, listen, there was so much doubt around the McGregor-Channler match happening. Even when the season was first announced, everyone thought it was a great idea to have them coach. Everyone thought, oh, this is a pretty logical comeback fight for McGregor. Chandler had essentially spoken into existence. He had been, go to MAFighting.com or Google, M.AFighting.com and look up like Chandler, McGregor, he did at least like four or five different interviews, tweets, just public comments saying, McGregor's fight's going to happen,

Margargar comes back, I'm the guy for it. And it thought that people didn't believe them. It's just like, you know, we thought there were other options. And then when McChannler finally landed it, everyone was kind of like,

oh, yeah, okay, sure. This is other people were booked. Like, this is the right fight for him to come back to. So it seemed like the perfect opportunity. And I was saying, I had said on tough hang, like, man, the show was doing like a really decent job

of trying to sort of rehabilitate Conner's image. One, he's been away from so long. Two, he has all past, you know, crimes and allegations, I mean, he still has a huge, huge legion of fans. But I do feel like there was some sort of cracks in that fan base starting to form. And especially among the more casual set who aren't like, you know, like complete Conn McGregor's sycophants. If Ultimate Fighter 31, if they tuned in and kind of saw a random episode, oh, look at him, he's, he's paying a kid for these custom action figures.

What a nice guy. Look at him spending time with these up-and-coming fighters. I thought it was like they were trying to rehab his image and doing a decent job of it last Thursday. this whole story just explodes and everything I said just looks insanely foolish. So, yeah, it's horrible news for obvious reasons. And also for a fight fans who were hoping to see, obviously hoping to see Connor back in action, want to see this Chandler fight. Mike, I will say this.

I had said at the beginning of the year, I think we had been asked over under John Jones McGregor fights. And it was like one and a half. And I went under because I thought it was going to be zero. And John Jones fought and I was like, oh boy, now I'm in trouble. I'm looking pretty safe again. I was going to say, I don't know John Jones and Regger

fight again this year, so I feel pretty good about that prediction, though. All right. I mean, we can't really throw out hypotheticals with all this, so we have to wait and just see how this all plays out legally,

but A.K., no matter how this goes, and you mentioned it with the casual audience and the cracks in the fan foundation, if Connor is being tried in the court of public opinion, this is not a good look being in these headlines, and it happens over and over again. And this whole thing, as you mentioned, just has cast another shadow on this return to the Octagon

and a potential fight with fellow tough 31 coach Michael Chandler. So gymnastics scale, AK, gymnastics scale for the faith you have right now that Connor McGregor versus Michael Chandler happens in 2020. Oh, it's at like a 1.5? I don't know how it's going to happen. We didn't even mention I meant to say it. I'm sure we're all thinking about it. The USADA stuff as well.

Everyone's reported pretty widely that he does not appear to back in the system. There's certainly a possibility that the USADA stuff doesn't matter. I can't remember who said it, but there's like someone could say, oh, yeah, he's, he's been tested. We just didn't update the, you know, we just didn't update his profile or whatever. He's been tested. Or there's the UFC's, you know, they can do the, what's the work? Give an exemption. exemption for extraordinary circumstances.

They've done it before, of course, most famously for Brock Lesnar. I'm not entirely sure what the circumstance could be other than the U.S. He's deciding, like, listen, we really want to make some more money this year. So please let McGregor fight. I know it sounds cynical, but listen, the U.S. The U.S.A works with the U.S. I'm not saying the U.S.A lets the U.S. do whatever they want, but I'm saying there's legalese, there's language that could be unearthed.

that we could totally say, yep, you saw it decided for some reason or Gregor fight. But I don't think that's going to happen. That's the cynical side

of me talking. I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think we see that fight this year. So I'm at like a 1.5 really low that it happens. And I think I've raised, I can't remember if I raise this question, I think I raised on tough hanging this week. I do want to ask you guys,

New York Rick as well, especially, what do you think the chance of the fight happens ever? Forget this year. Is this fight going to have? Is this fight just done now? Rick? Yeah, I think that's a more fair question because to be honest, I'm wondering, like,

is Connor McGregor going to get his life in order more so than is Connor McGregor going to fight? Like, I really, fighting is like one of the furthest things from my mind when it comes to him because, okay, they announce, he gets in the Asada pool and they announce the date of Michael Chandler versus Connor McGregor. Now what? What happens in the months between? Like, there's just no certainty when it comes to Connor McGregor and his behavior when, he's not literally just standing in the cage.

Outside of that, it seems to be unmanaged and out of control. So don't have high hopes of him fighting this year at all. Don't think that's a possibility. Don't like, is he ever going to fight again? Can he get himself back in that space and be disciplined to that level? Is I think a real question, is a legitimate question. And I'm not sure that the answer is yes. So it remains to be seen and we need to see it.

but I'm more concerned about, like, can this guy be a functioning member of society, let alone, you know, fighting again? There's there's a lot that needs to be proven from Connor McGregor's side before I think about fights at all. Yeah, and I want to add to that. I think one big difference about this, and a lot of other people have mentioned is like, this happened in the United States. Not to say that there's like, you know, him doing, you know, these other sexual assault allegations that occurred outside of the U.S. One of them, I think, I think there was a couple. I want to say there's at least one in Dublin, maybe a couple, one off the coast of Corsica, if I remember correctly, so that's near France. This is the first time it's happened on U.S. soil.

And I think more importantly, that there's some sort of video at least tying him to the accuser. Again, this video does not by any means conclusively prove the allegations, but this is the most, like, you know, public can see the evidence situation that we have had with when it comes to these sexual assault. allegations. So, and again, and it also threats happen to the U.S. So this is like anyone who thinks that this can just be shrugged off, I think that's, that's ridiculous. I'm not saying that this is not going to get settled out of court. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this result, if this is settled financially and everyone just goes their separate ways. But that does not, again, as Rick has said, does not sort of dismiss the severity of the, of the situation here. I do think these are the most serious charges he's faced yet.

And while I do think that he will end up fighting again, and I do think people will find a way to embrace him again if he does fight, this is the cynical side of me talking again. It's never felt more bleak that Conn McGregor can come back from something, I think. Look, Dana White has not reacted to any of this yet. He was not at the apex card last week. I would assume he's going to be in Jacksonville on Saturday. speaking with the media, I'll be there.

I'm sure he's going to talk about this for the first time. But, you said something really interesting. Can this man get his life together? And not only that, it's just the amount of time between obligations when it comes to the fight game. Like you put so much space in between, it's tough when you're, we have all this money and you have all this fame and you're being pulled in all these different directions,

all these different adventures and endeavors that he's a part of and all these businesses. the dude is all over the place. So keeping that in mind, New York, when Dana's asked about this, and look, he's the biggest star in the history of the sport. This is a business. What are your thoughts on them just like benching him? Because, yeah, you want the man to get his life together,

but is benching him the right answer, considering he kind of needs something to work towards, right? Yeah, I mean, it's a difficult position from the UFC's perspective because again, like, if they enact a punishment of some sort, a benching of some sort, it looks like they are backing the allegations or like co-opting the allegations and saying, like, something untoward happened here. If there's a situation where Cona McGregor is free and clear and didn't need to be benched, it would give off bad optics and it's dicey, it's messy for the UFC.

I think they will likely, and Dana White would be smart to take the approach of, hey, we have to see how this plays out legally and then we will make a decision from there. I don't think that they can get ahead of it or do anything proactive. There's certain steps that I think have already played out, right? Like, for example, if this was an allegation that they took to the highest possible degree of seriousness in order, maybe tough would have had some kind of statement or maybe tough would have paused. airing or something to that effect. They can't do that. They can't proactively get out of that without making some kind of determination there. So I think that they have to take a hands off approach.

I think that they have to kind of wait to see how things play out and then determine what they're going to do. From there, if Connor McGregor ends up not suffering any consequences or penalty, would it make sense for the UFC to just sit him out? Probably not. He's a moneymaker. at that point, what is the point of having him on your roster if you're not going to use him? But I think he personally has an obligation to kind of, you know, figure out what's going on here,

correct certain things in his life, and then think about fighting again after that. Yeah. And let me just be clear. When I say bench, I don't mean like we're guilty until proven innocent. What I mean is just stay home, chill out, do what you got to do to like stay out. to like stay out of the spotlight for a while and you know maybe you just need that in your life you just need a little separation from everything you have going on it's not you know condemning any action or anything like that just listen we care about this guy this guy's getting pulled in a million different directions

we just need him to settle down a little bit let him calm down and then we'll figure something out but last thing before we move on AK you gave a gymnastics score and then you brought up you gave a gymnastics score, but whether or not Connor Chandler happens this year. And then you posed a counter question of Connor ever fighting again or Connor Chandler ever fighting again. Gymnastic score for McGregor fighting ever again. I mean, in MMA or anything? He fights again. Anything? I mean, dude, I mean, look, if he's not fighting the UFC, he's not fighting anywhere. So that's, the UFC ain't going to let that dude fight anywhere else with fights on his contract. We're talking ever again.

I could see some circumstance where somehow he gets dragged out to fight somewhere. You're right. He does have to deal with, jump to hoops with the UFC. There's still money too made off this guy. This is the life we live, right? This is the business we're talking about. There's still a lot of money to make off him. If we're talking, will he ever fight one more time?

One more time? I'm at like a 9.8. Like, I'm nearly certain he will fight somewhere again. You're right. It probably has to be in the UFC. But I don't know. as much as we've assessed the severity of these allegations in this whole situation and just where his direction that his life seems to be going in, man, the fight business is ever forgiving.

I mean, John Jones did some pretty rough stuff not long before coming back this year. Now he's nominated for two SBs. And we're talking about him fighting steep and this horrible thing that happened in Las Vegas after the Hall of Fame, talking about John Jones. It's, we're all aware of it. It certainly gets mentioned, but it's become so secondary to just talking about Jones's fighting career again. I can absolutely see the same happening as Conradger.

So I'm like a 9.8. I stopped short of 10 just because there's nothing's guaranteed, but you're going to see Connor McGregor fight again. What do you think, Eric, Rick? I mean, I only bring this up because that is a very popular sentiment on the social media world. See, McGreg is never fighting again. I told you so.

Yeah, I think he will fight again. I think there's a world where, as A.K. said, he said it perfectly. Like, the fight game is very forgiving when it comes to this type of thing. If they're still interest in seeing you fight, fight fans will figure out how to find it, and promoters will figure out how to put it on. So, yeah, I think Connor McGregor will fight again. And again, I think that's a bit of a dire,

it would be a very dire statement to say Connor McGregor will never fight again, based on this specific incident, right? It comes on the heels of this specific incident because there's still a lot of ambiguity. There's still a lot we don't know and there's still a lot to play out here. So it would feel, it feel presumptive to do that. But yeah, there's certainly a trend of when Connor McGregor

has free time here, things don't go well. So I understand that sentiment, I understand that wave, but I do expect that Connor McGregor will fight again. I can't imagine that he just walks away. Yeah, I'm with both of you. Let's move on. It's almost not even right to give a point here, but I got to do it.

That's the job. So point for out one goes to give it to AKs, the Prince of positivity and my best friend. That's just, I didn't want to give a point, but. It's biased. Listen, you're biased. Yeah, it's, you're biased. We all know it.

And I love it. That's what I love about you. Yes. With Amex platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice, yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Well, let's transition. Let's head to this past weekend in the world of mixed martial arts. We had a lot of events. We had the UFC Vegas 75 card. We had Bellator 297 on Friday. We also had the PFL card. Belator had a very good card on paper.

PFL had PFL 5, which obviously had some aftermath. We'll get into that in a moment. So I will ask you, AK, you're a man of the people. You're a man who studies the metrics. You know what's going on. You got your finger on the pulse, my man. And I'm not talking about the fights per se, but just like all the criteria involved in trying to answer this question.

Who won last weekend, AK? Was it the UFC, Bellator, or PFL? And let me counter that as well. Who lost the weekend between the three? Oh, wow. I would stop us to be all positivity. I don't want to say someone lost. We're all winners.

We can all be winners in this crazy game called MMA. I just wish I had a graphic to compare the three events that, you know, really, really break it down. It really let people know. I'll go. I'll go. I think it's, I don't know. I remember we were, I think. Apple on here.

We're having some internal discussions, and I think we said pretty clearly there was a winner, but kind of looking back on things now, maybe listening to some people on the MA hour, you know, talk about it. It doesn't it Sergio Pettis, things like that. I think it's closer. I think it's close than people think. But I will still stick with PFL. They apparently did a very good ratings number. Don Davis, speaking of graphics, Don Davis tweeted out that it was what I think they're most watched. I don't know if they're most watched event yet.

Top five, top five on cable on the night. You know, people can listen, you can, when we're talking about viewership numbers, you can always kind of tweak things and pick things out to make your, you know, program look better, look better than it is. But 500,000 viewers, they said, really good number, not including streaming. Clearly, this was a watched event. And I think based on it having more social media traction than usual, I think we can believe those numbers. I think those numbers are real. And we know why it had more social media traction because we're all, we knew Francis deganu was going to be in the building. Very well promoted by PFL.

Excellent job. Because again, he's not fighting until next year. But anytime he shows up, you've got to let people know. France's going to be here. John Jones going to be here cornering Maurice Green in the main event. It's set up perfectly. It's set up perfectly to have them meet. And then they funneled John Jones towards where Francis was right at the end.

We got a nice face off, beautifully filmed by Jedd Michoud. You guys can find that on M.A. fighting. And it was exciting. It was exciting. We know they can't fight the PFL. We know they're not fighting the UFC anytime soon. but just seeing it and just tease the possibility having a beaming race info in the background just looking super excited to have them in the same place that's great that's great and it gets people talking and lets people know that the pfl exists because listen i don't mean to be condescending there are four seasons in now it's it still has nowhere near the casual cachet of a ufc and i would still wager bell tor i think beltor has the history where if we're talking just like i mean it's it's not huge but probably more people know what belatory is have heard of Belator than PFL.

But after a move like this, you really get people who know about the, you know, who may only know about the UFC going like, oh, John Jones was there. That's cool. Oh, that's where Francis and God went to the PFL. And they interacted on John Jones. And the card had a few, you know,

some decent finishes. I've been saying PFL has had a lot of luck this year with having at least like five, six, seven finishes per card. That happened. Larissa Pacheco looked like a star, just ran through Amber LeBrock. Again, a lot of first round finishes. that means you have to deal with PFL up pacing.

That's fine. That's a thing that sells to be dealt with. But I'll go PFL1. I think UFC, the clear loser. Not a bad card at all. Not a bad card at all. But I have not heard word one about anyone talking about it after. I'm trying, I'm quickly going over the results here.

Man, nothing like came out of this. They tried to get Jared to Tacoa Hamza. That was about it. That's really all you're getting. Armand, you know, trying to get the Michael Chandler fight. So there's just no buzz. And it was a fine card. It wasn't even like a bad card at all.

Just completely forgettable. And that's what people were saying ahead of time. Like on paper, it can be what it is no matter what. It's not going to have any buzz. So Bellator sitting firmly in the middle. Great moment for Sergio Pettis. Bazaar main event. I mean, that's what happens when you have, you all are marrow on a title fight in the year of our Lord, 2023.

So not bad. It looked like the best card on paper was an okay card. And some conversation about after, not a lot. Right in the middle. So PFL, big winner. UFC this week, loser. but I mean, UFC overall is always winning. So why does it matter?

All right. You heard AK's power rankings, PFL, Bellator, UFC. Are you with him? Or are you structuring yours a little differently? Yeah, it was a very long answer. And then right at the end is when he finally said the point that mattered, which is that the UFC always wins. The winner of the weekend was the UFC,

as it always will be and continue to be because they are getting the most viewers and continue to be on in prime. spots on ESPN and just continue to run and the machine keeps going and going and going no matter what they are putting out. So the UFC will always win. And then underneath that, they can battle for second. Certainly, I think the PFL raised attention with the John Jones and Francis and Ganou thing. And AK said, you know, I've seen everybody talking about that and knowing nobody talking about the UFC card. I wonder in that same analysis

if anybody was actually talking about anything from PFL other than John Jones and Francis and Ghanu, which I already know the answer to. That was rhetorical because the answer is no, they were not talking about anything else from that card. And the UFC has an even further kind of push of the marker here

into first place, which is that their champion, heavyweight champion, goes over to the PFL and it's the biggest story. It continues to be a UFC story, not a PFL story. is tuning into the PFL on the basis of John Jones showing up to confront Francis and Ghanu. They just think, oh, wow, John Jones, the UFC champion. That was cool. And then they continue to watch the UFC every Saturday.

So, yeah, it's the UFC and then Bellator and PFL somewhere underneath their battling, as they continue to do on social media out for second place. But the UFC was the winner, as they will always be. Yeah, look, you can, I'll listen to any argument you want about this, you can look at it from so many different perspectives, but clearly the biggest moment of the weekend came from the PFL card. And let me just say this.

We have, when Jed and I do the promotional festivists at the end of the year, I'm going to have a lot to say about the PFL and most of it is not going to be good. But what they did on Friday was brilliant, because Mory's Greens in the main event with Auntie Delaja, we're like, why is Mory's Green in the main event?

And why is Lurza Pacheco not in the main event? And then we kind of figured out why. And then these days, the big reason why, Mori's Green fights, John Jones not far behind. And then we found out France is going to be in attendance. And we knew they would be in the same room and fans knew and media knew,

which is why the numbers were as high as they were because they wanted to see if we would get these guys face to face or at least John walking by Francis or something. They face off, they smack a little, talk a little smack to each other. And if you look at the views on social media and YouTube, off the freaking chart. So let me ask you this, New York, Rick.

What? outside of like short term having the moment of the weekend, what did this even accomplish? Like what impact did this moment have for the PFL, for anybody involved with it really, outside of just a quick moment. And that was cool. And then a couple days later, it's like, okay, now it's over.

Not much more than that. But the one thing I will give them credit for and they continue to beat this drum is they are the most vocal about, we are agnostic to the territorial part of this. We have a guy who we think is the best. You have a guy who you think is the best. Let's have them fight. And they are the ones beating that drum.

And this was another example of it. Hey, we're going to have John Jones in our building. And our new signed heavyweight is going to square off with him. And it's a fight that everybody actually wants to see. And we have no problem with taking that route. We have no problem with letting this face off happen. and saying we want to do this fight and getting out in front of it, I think that's good promotionally for them.

I think this was something that was smart for their part to do. That I think is the only benefit. I do not think this will lead to any long-term viewers. I do not think this will eventually lead to a fight. Obviously, John Jones is not going to be fighting Francis and Gano while he is under the UFC banner. But that does have some value. The ability to say, we're the ones who are out here saying, You have fighters, we have fighters, and we're willing to put our fighters up against your fighters.

That matters to some people, and I think that's significant. And so that would be the benefit in my mind. But in terms of actual long-term value and metrics and anything that could have come from it, there was probably not a significant impact. Okay, do you agree with that? Do you think this has any long-term boosts, boosting potential at all? Outside of just a cool moment on Friday between two heavyweights that wanted to, a fight but never did. Mike, let me read a tweet here. New period. Record. Period.

Audience. Period. At PFL MMA last week equals fifth most watched event of all sports on cable head, mind-blown emoji, starry eye emoji. BFL 2033 up plus 50 percent. PFL, U.S. viewership. Now, three. times greater than the number three MMA company. Does not even name the company. Just say whatever the number three MA company is, three times U.S. viewership, hashtag PFL, hashtag PFL, hashtag PFL,

hashtag MMA, and of course, a fancy graphic to a company. That was from one Mr. Don Davis. I would hope, I would hope that a fraction of the people who tuned in would have not just tuned in for like the second half of the card. Like, they would have seen Vagio Ali Walsh and said, I want to see more of Muhammad. Ali's grandkid. They would have seen Levertsa Pichiko and been like, you know, the man of Nunes is gone.

This woman looks pretty good. I'm going to tune in the next time she'd fight. I'm going to tune in the next time. Anti-Dilesia, if Ante Delisia beat John Jones's guy. Antideleisure must be good. Maybe I want to see Anteolizia fight Francis Ngadu. There's a lot of maybes that I'm throwing out here, guys. A lot of, but I'm just saying you don't have the possibility of this without this spike in

viewership, without the spike in interest. And that's why you set up these gimmick these gimmicky things. You hope that something will spark. people to come back. Again, even if only a fraction of this 500K viewership comes back, it's probably still going to be a boost over the usual card. So it's been said, they have one more event this week in Atlanta, PFL6. I think this is the last regular season event. And we will see. We will see what the number is. It's certainly not going to be 500K. But if it's anywhere like, you know, if there's any improvement over the usual number,

I think, I think we can point to this as being the starting point. And then, of course, we have to see the favorite carries over to playoffs and championships well. But yes, I'm being optimistic here and saying hopefully some of those 500K that are new viewers will stick around. Yes, can't wait to see Auntie Elijah fight again until next year because he didn't make the freaking playoffs, which is... Oh, that's right.

Oh, man. It's crazy. You know what? I don't really want to ask this, but I'm going to because this is the sport where you can continuously go back to this. Is PFL number two right now, A.K., And I know this continues to be a thing. It's a fight for number two.

And New York Creek is going to lose his shit. And I don't care. Because Bellator's roster is a thousand times better. And if they did a Bellator versus PFL event, Bellator would be like a minus 1,200 favorite to win the event. Like most of their fighters, most of their top-ranked fighters are going to run over the PFL's top fighters. They have a case to have the best fighter in the world in multiple divisions.

The problem is, AK, and I love Bellator and I want them to succeed. Nobody seems to care. And that's just such a big problem considering the talent on this roster. So in the overall spectrum right now, is PFL number two? Like are they the number two promotion? Yeah, listen, we had a little joke going. Like, wouldn't it be nice, you know, if the promotion slotted into like one championship number two

because then they could be two championship, PFL number three could be the three FL. and Bell Tor in fourth place is Belafor. But as cute as that is to say, I do think PFL right now is number two. And this is nothing to do with roster, nothing to do with quality of fights, doesn't do with their choice of season format, which I quite like,

but it's a give or take thing. Some people don't care for it. Some people think it's cool. It's also this whole season thing. Two fights is just weird. But this is a meat and potatoes thing. This comes down to one of these is broadcast and has the wide support of ESPN,

one of them doesn't. One of them is on Showtime. Why don't we don't even get that in Canada? So I'm unfamiliar with this is, but I'm told it does not have the widest reach in the U.S. If I'm to understand, it's certainly not as much the ESPN. And at this point, maybe I don't even, maybe not even ESPN Plus,

but as long as ESPN can continue to pretend that Belltor doesn't exist and only push the UFC and only push PFL, Beltor is going to be fighting uphill. I mean, plus their own weird programming, having Nemcov Romero go off last over Sergio Pettus, Patricia Pitbull, just these weird little things where they kind of shoot themselves in the foot. And then, again, you add in just the broadcast limitations. There's just something that they just aren't able to connect with the fans.

Even a big card like this, like we said, I think pretty clearly the best card on paper. You have former UFC fighters. That's usually always helps, but it's just not happening. And the Showtime deal isn't helping it all. So it really is just a matter of how many people even have access to your product and are likely to casually trip upon your product. It's much more likely to happen Friday night. Thursday night, Friday night, PFL runs events on either nights, you know, this season randomly flicking along. Oh, cool, there's cage fights.

It's not UFC, but, you know, I like, I would like MMA. I'll watch that. Then, I don't know, that same thing happening with Bell Tour on Showtime. So it's just, it's just a sad reality of the situation. But yeah, PFL number two, yeah. If I know New York, Rick, and I think that I do, there's two. things he loves to debate. One, what is the greatest of all time in a certain way class or in the sport? And even more so, what's the second best anything in MMA? And here we go, New York, Rick.

I mean, you're a guest on the show and I'm so honored and happy that you are here that I wanted to throw this bone to you. One of your favorite topics of all time is PFL number two right now. Yeah, thank you, Mike. As you've astutely laid out. I love nothing more than talking about this. I cannot change my tune now. I would love, you know, obviously the framing of this question is pushing me toward an answer. And to your best effort, I cannot divert from, I cannot shift courses from what I've said before, which is that there is no number two and it does not matter in the least who number two is. They should not be trying to fight for number two. They should be fighting for number one. They should be trying to be number one. They should be

differentiating and this this obsession with being number two is quite frankly like pathetic in my eyes it's it's useless it's meaningless and there was a quote i read in an article from the ringer i want to i actually brought this up while a k was talking because it stuck with me for so long brian curtis of the ringer wrote this in 2018 it was it was an article about the show high noon on ESPN um but from eric ride home who's also the the mind behind deezis and merro desis and merro was a great show between or former show that started with Complex and then went to Showtime between these two great New York personalities who have since kind of had a rift, but they are amazing. And it was one of my favorite shows.

And one of the things that Ride Home said that really stuck with me was when he was talking about Deza Samarro, he said the following quote, there are far more people who know the show and feel like they watch the show. And emphasis on feel, it's italicized, and feel like they watch the show. than people who actually watch the show. That's, I think, the best case I can hope for here. So he's talking about the future of high noon and he's talking about Deez-A-Mero

and more people feel like they know about and watch the show than actually watch the show. That is Bellator, that is PFL, that is the battle for second place. More people feel like they watch Bellator and more people feel like they watch PFL than actually watch PFL. And it's insignificant. They need to be pushing for viewers. They need to be doing things to change their...

And it is not going to be mired in this battle and debate for who's number two. That is not the way forward. Well, let me just say this. This is the end of the round. But I get a feeling and this could be a little teaser, something to prepare yourselves for. I don't think we're done with this topic. I don't think we're done with this topic. But we move on to round three.

The point four round two goes to there it is. New York, Rick. I mean, Mr. Consistency. You're trying to throw the curveball. He just. I want to be number two that round. I want to be number two that round. Good.

Good. Who really won? I just have that question. By the way, if number two merged with number two, what happens? Is it just even more two-ish? Do they become the two-est promotion ever? Okay. One of the twos becomes, one of the twos becomes, what is it, the exponent or whatever?

The factor of? They become to the factor. Right. That's tremendous. That's tremendous. But maybe we'll talk more about that in a little while. But let's move on to a division that has gotten really interesting. The UFC's middleweight division has actually gotten pretty interesting.

Israel Adasania's back as champion after defeating Alex Pereira. We have a lot of important fights on the books at 185 for one reason or the other for the UFC in the next few weeks. Some that could have significant impact on the division and title implications. Last weekend, we had a very fun fight between Jared Cannonier and Marvin Vittori, aka the toughest chin on planet Earth. These two guys battled. Cannonier pulled away. And my opinion, this was the best performance of his entire career.

So New York, Rick, grade that performance from Jared Cannonier, the one-time middleweight title challenger. Yeah, that was, it was pretty impressive. I got to admit, I'm going to go 8.5 out of 10. Like that was a pretty damn complete performance for one being rocked in round one clearly stunned by Marvin Vittory And then turning it completely around in round two to the point where it was it was a 10-8 and then continuing to kind of dominate the rest of that fight showing he had cardio showing he could set a record pace for middleweight strikes in a division that has featured mostly strikers right like if you think about the champions from from anderson to israel it's kind of been more of a striking, striking own division. I was impressed, man.

I was impressed to the point where I'm like, I don't, I'm not dying to see Canaaner versus Israel out of Sanya again, but would I turn it down? Would I feel as bad about it as I felt the last time they had that fight? I wouldn't. I now am willing to put Jared Kananir back in contender position, mostly because of how good, I think, at a baseline level, Marvin Vittoria is. He's extremely tough. Any most other guys who would have taken those shots from Kenoneer probably would have been finished.

Just got an un-inhuman chin. But yeah, really strong performance against a guy who I rate highly in the middleweight division. I was impressed. I was truly impressed. A.K., not a lot of people are giving this a lot of, like, credible, you know, hope that this is even going to be a fun fight, let alone. A lot of people weren't giving Jared Kennerer a lot of a chance. because of the way Marvin Vittori puts on the pressure with the way he competes.

Like it felt like a really solid matchup for Marvin Vittory and because just Marvin can't be hurt. But Jared heard him a lot in this fight. Like he didn't put him away, but he heard him a lot in this fight. 8.5 from New York, Rick. Where are you putting Jared Canaanere's performance? I'll go a little bit higher.

I'll go like 8.8. I was almost a little 9, but I guess 9 would have been, no, I don't have 10 if he had finished him. I'll go, or maybe, I'll go eight pointy. I don't, I'll stop at nine. I will say, I was one of the few who thought this could be an entertaining main event. I thought we would get sort of the, the Marvin that fought, you know, Polo Costa as opposed to maybe the more methodical Marvin or the more kind of, like less offensively aggressive Marvin. Not that he had a chance to get much off in this fight, because, yeah, Jared was, I mean, the last four rounds at least was fantastic.

So all the credit in the world to him. I did pick the wrong winner, though. actually thought Marvin, we're saying all this great stuff about Kennear putting together like a strong five-round performance and showing off the cardio. I thought Vitori would have the cardio advantage. And I'm not saying cardio was his weakness here, but Kennear's cardio looked fantastic. He was with him all the way. So I was somewhat right that I thought the fight could be a good one.

Totally wrong on the winner. Unlike Rick, I will say, I'm not super enthused about seeing Canineer again. And I know he's in position now where, like, he could be the backup for the Israel-Dissanier fight, whoever is he ends up fighting. I would be very surprised, very surprised. Like, I get if they don't have any other options, he wants to fight and say he has to fight somebody. Boy, I would hope they would have to find someone besides Kenya, because I thought that first fight was so, you know, unwatchable.

And I know he looked better against Marvin. I always say I'm one of the people who will tell you first that rematches rarely go exactly the same. same as the first fight. But I just think like Cannoneer and Izzy is such a bad style matchup and you do end up with a poor fight entertainment wise like nine times out of 10. I just don't think they match up well as far as being crowd pleasers. I think Canineer and Vittoria was like on paper a much better chance of turning into a decent fight, which was what we got.

So all the credit in the world to Canineer, you know, I always say it's not all about getting back to title shots. though I know that's what he wants. He's done everything he can so far. Like we always say, well, if some guys are in a contender, if they really want to prove it, they need at least one or two wins, got two good wins against ranked guys. But I'm not enthusiastic about it.

I could see him being the backup. I could totally see him being the backup for that Sydney card, but him actually being initially booked to be in that spot. I don't think I want it. And I don't think the UFC is crazy about going that direction either. Let me just. Can I just clarify? something. Let me be clear. I went from, oh no, oh my God, no, to, okay, like, don't hate it.

Like, don't love it, but don't hate it. I just want to be clear on the degrees I went to, in terms of Cananeer's title contention. I went from, oh, no, please God, no. It's like, all right, maybe if I'm forced. Yeah, it was your Lloyd Christmas, Mary Swanson, dumb and dumber moment when she said one in a million. Oh, you're saying there's a chance. Yeah, that's that's kind of what jared cannoneer did here because i was like you guys even if he won a decision i would have been like well this is a canineering cantony cantonere decision i don't think there'll be any appetite for him to fight israel out of sanya and not just next but like anytime soon but i feel like the door is somewhat open and i i know we talked about this on to the next one

but I feel even stronger now today that the UFC 1,000% needs to book Canaaner versus Hamza Tchamayev in Abu Dhabi next. Do it in October because if Canaaner really does want a title shot, especially with Israel Adasani as the champion,

if he fights Hamza Tchamai if he beats Hamzat Shemayev, this to me is outside of a last minute we need you on 10 days notice to fill in for Fighter B, this is probably his best. chance to get there. So do you think that Dana and the matchmakers and the UFC brass, Tuesday in the war room, they were already talking about trying to put this fight together? I want to say yes, Mike, but I have no idea what conversations they have about Kamsa Shamaa over this point. Again, it's very unclear. I think the slant, I'm trying to

read the tea leaves here and gauge sort of public opinion. I think the slant has gone towards like questioning the UFC, why haven't they booked him? Are they giving him the requisite three fights a year? Because if not, then how is, you know, how are they honoring the terms of the contract, right? Dana White always says all the time, listen, I don't know why this guy isn't fighting. We offer three fights a year. If they don't want to fight, they don't want to fight. We offer three fights a year.

So just by, you know, using math here, theoretically, the UFC hasn't been offering, sorry, has offered fights and Hamzot hasn't taken them. And again, I don't know what to believe. I don't know what to believe. If you look at Hamzat's social media, when he tweets these days, it's generally about, hey, I'm ready to fight on this date. Or I want to fight this person. I want to fight this person. I want to fight this person.

So the truth is someone in between. I honestly cannot tell you what conversations are having about him because it feels like, yeah, Jared Cannonier, very logical coming after that performance. That should have been what they were talking about Tuesday's meeting. But I also feel like there's other fight cards that happened this year where they could have talked about of Hamzaat and made something happen. So I'm leaning towards like that it has not come up as a as a point of priority just because we just don't know what's going with Hamzat. Jared has fought himself into a position where a number one contenders belt with Hamzat makes a lot of sense, makes a ton of

sense. But it's the it's the Hamzaa part of this equation that I am so unsure of. And we listen, we talked about Wakana-Rigga fights here. You could ask me the same thing about Hamzat and honestly, my answer will be pretty low. It feels like he has to land in Abu Dhabi against somebody, Kaner, very logical name, but we just haven't heard any rumblings, any, even the slightest, like, murmur that this guy is going to be booked anytime soon.

So, listen, hopefully at reverse jinks, I said that, and as soon as Boutiel goes off the air, we get a Hamzaat to fight report. I don't know. You know, Greg, is this the fight to make? After this performance, Jared Kananier versus Hamzaa Chamaif, is this the fight to make? I'd rather see Costa versus Hamzaat, which has been teased and talked about,

and I like to build to that a little bit better. But I wouldn't mind, kind of near Hamzat. I think it's a credible challenge. And somebody who, if Hamzaat wins, you could really shove them right to a title shot. But quite frankly, the UFC has just botched this and I just want to see Hamza fight. I don't care who he's fighting. He could be fighting me. He could be fighting you.

As long as he's fighting sometime, somewhere, that's all I really care about. So yeah, I mean, Canineer's brother, his cousin, somebody else on the roster, somebody else not even on the roster, great. Feed him to Hamzad and let's just see what happens. I'm down for it.

But as a style matchup, as a credible fight, I think that's interesting enough and definitely a high enough ranked guy that if Hamzat can win, you shove him into a title shot. And if Canaaner can stop Hamzot coming off this performance against Vitori,

I'm okay with him reentering the title conversation, especially now on the, you know, on the heels of another defense for Israel, maybe, or, you know, another defense opportunity for Israel and Whitaker and DDP, maybe the champion isn't Israel-A-Sahanya anymore and things get refreshed. So, yeah. Well, what are we going to do with Israel-A-D-Sahia New York, Rick? While the division is interesting, it's been kind of misman. It's like AEW booked the UFC's middleweight division, just too much Gaga, all this stuff. It leads to nothing, really.

Eric could potentially lead to nothing because Izzy is expected to fight in September on that Sydney card. And I just don't know who he could or is going to fight at this point. Like, yes, there's fights in the books. Robert Woodacre versus DDP. Dana White is saying the winner of this fight's going to turn around, fight in

Sydney and fight Israel out of Saundi for the title. But that's an awfully quick turnaround. We were being very optimistic about the durability of these two gentlemen, especially with D.D. Freakin' involved who is just all gas, no brakes, pure chaos. So I figure, you know, it's 121. It's time to rile some people up, New York, Rick.

Who's the guy? Who's the guy that could step in there in Sydney, Australia, and fight Israel out of Sanya for the UFC middleweight championship of the freaking world? It's a good question, Mike. I feel like you've teed this up very, very nicely for me. So I'm just going to go out and say it. I'm not going to give the whole preamble that I gave last time. The answer is Bo Nicol.

And I'll tell you why the answer. answer is Bo Nickel. Because if we're waiting for the result of Robert Whitaker and DDP, you also, you know, there's also another person who's fighting at UFC 290 that you can wait on the result of, and that's Bo Nickel. If you're talking about potentially throwing Sean Strickland into the occasion, which I've seen Bandied about, right? There's almost like we're operating with this almost assumption, I feel like, from MAA

fans where it's like, Whitaker and DDP are not going to be able to turn around at time. That's kind of the going sentiment that I feel. I think that, you know, kind of remains to be seen. Let's see how that fight plays out. But that's the sentiment I kind of feel. At which case, they kind of defaults to Sean Strickland, to which I ask, why? Why does Sean Strickland have to be the answer?

How about Boe Nickel, American wrestler, Bo Nickle, if he can get past Trayshon Gore, A, I think he'd be willing to turn around. B, it's a lot more compelling a fight from an actual styles perspective. for me to see Bo Nickel and Israel-A-Sahnya, especially because I think Bo-Nichols' hands are still a little bit raw, and he's not there. I'd like to kind of see it a little bit early. And see, I promise you the odds on a Bo-Nickle and Israel-A-Sanya fight are going to be a lot closer than on a Sean Strickland-I-Sriott-Sign fight or a DDP-E-DP-D-Py-Sy-Sy fight.

So this idea that, like, I don't want to hear about Bo, it's too early, he's only this, X, Y, Z. save the gripes, save the crying, save the whining. I'm okay with it. And look, if Bo goes in there and gets smoked, I promise you they'll be counting their pay-per-view money and not worried about it. Because he'll be back and Israel-Ana will be champion. And if not, now you've got something special.

Now you've got a super prospect who just took out a long-reigning middleweight champion with that Alex Pereira hiccup in the middle there, but somebody who's defended the title many, many times. And Bo Nichols just got a rocket strapped to his back. So, yeah, I think this idea of like, well, it kind of has to be Sean Strickland because Whitaker and DDP are not going to turn around in time. I say bully to that. And I say, give Bo a chance. Dude, Sean Strickland has got a tough fight ahead of him.

Abis Magamato. And that, too. Is a tough fight. Who knows? Maybe it's Avis Muggana. AK, you're here. Bo Nickel. This has been, my mentions on Twitter have been exploding since Tuesday.

thanks to New York, Rick, because it ended up being very compelling because people were like, oh, this is the stupidest friggin idea I've ever heard. But then people start talking about it. They're like, hmm, maybe this isn't as crazy as I thought it was and I first heard it. Is this crazy, AK, is New York Creek out of his mind? There were also some not so nice comments about you on MAAfighting.com, like, but don't worry, I've erased those comments. Don't, don't, don't, don't need to look at those.

Don't worry about those. Don't worry about those. I just ask the freaking question. Oh, my God. Exactly. You're just asking questions. I thought that would make community love that. It was asking me.

Oh my God. Yeah. Anyway, listen, they're shooting the messenger or even the receiver in this case. New York, I hate that I love that suggestion so much because, no, because, listen, the boat, this would harken back to me to the days of old school UFC, right? Which is like, we're just going to take the best wrestler in this weight class right now. And we're going to put them up against a, well, I guess I don't want. want to just call is he a kickboxer but you know this this would be wrestling versus kickboxing ufc two bo nicole israeli dizz and yeah um isy is so much more than that now both guys and

boe is obviously much more than just a wrestler but it really would remind me of that and and and this is before we didn't care about this guy's this guy's you know 30 and oh and we would care about that we would look at the you know their record in other combat sports boe nichols incredible collegiate and you know amateur wrestling record and you would look at that and just be enough to say yeah i want to see these two fight i think there's there's something intriguing in here. But I get it. That was friggin, what, 25 years ago now. The sport has evolved so much. I understand

we need to stop evoking the ghost of the original UFC's and this one. But I don't hate that suggestion at all. I actually think it's really cool. And I could totally see the UFC being able to market it. Now, for my suggestion, Mike, how did you phrase the question?

Did you say, who's going to step up and fight Izzy for the middleweight title? Who's the guy? Like, who's the guy? Well, I got to step way out of the box here because I don't know if there is to anyone available to challenge for the middleweight title now. I think I'd want to see Izzy actually go up to 205 again. Have a little dalliance up at 205. Just so we can get it because, again, I just don't, besides Bo Nicol, which I just don't, I think it's too soon. I think there's anyone else that I could throw into the middleweight title fight right now.

And again, Les Kamsat pops out of nowhere and he should not get a middleweight title. He's less serving of middleweight title shot out right now than Bo Nichol. I think he goes up 205, and they give him a title fight with a guy who's been waiting for his first defense. Well, Mr. Jamal Hill. I think Izzy gets a chance to become a two-division champion. I'm going way outside the box here. I know this is crazy, but that would be a hell of a homecoming. If he were able to pull that up, I think he'd be favored in that fight.

I don't know. I'm not saying I think he'd run through Jamal Hill, but again, I think he would be the, when the odds come in, he would be favored. And the crowd would be absolutely going nuts. to see him get a chance. And if he wins, and if Alex Padeta beats him Blakovich, guess what? Then you get your third, excuse me, your third MMA fight between Izzy and Padeta for U.S.C. gold again. So there you go. I think that could happen. I mean, listen, I don't think that's a crazy idea. I think that's an idea that people have been throwing out. Like, if we just run out of, there, there, like, let's give Jamal Hill a call. He turned around like two weeks notice to fight Glover-Teshara.

So, I mean, he was preparing for another fight, obviously, but turned back around and fought for the belt and won. And yeah, it'd be interesting. I just don't know what the hell's going to happen. Can you Matt? I got to tell you, New York, Crick, I am hoping. Like, I am rooting for this bow-nickel idea to come to fruition so badly. Just because I just want to see the reactions to it.

It's not going to happen. This is not my suggestion, but I honestly, after seeing all the comments and just seeing everything, just based on a headline from a, call in radio show that we do, I want it to happen so bad and I'm going to try to will it into existence as much as possible, New York, Greg. Yeah, this is the point, right? Like, you are excited about it.

Whether, look, I'm not arguing that Bo Nicol is the most competitive matchup for Israel to Sonia. That's not my argument. I think Robert Whitaker amongst middleweights, I don't consider Hamzaa middleweight yet, but I think Robert Whitaker and Israel Asana are the two best middleweights. I think those two would now with Alex leaving as well. There's a lot of asterisk that I have to place on this. But Robert Whitaker and Israel-A-Sahna are the two best remaining middleweights,

and I think that that is the best style match-up, that is the best competitive fight. But if you're asking me, do I want to see that a third time or would I rather see some fresh blood in the form of Bonnickle and see what that American wrestling looks like, what that amateur wrestling looks like? Yeah, I mean, I could be convinced. And I think there would be a way to sell it.

And I think the fans getting angry and simultaneously excited about it would be a great way to do that. But I also do like AK suggestion. I don't hate the idea of, of Israel-Aid Assania versus Jamal Hill. That's a fun fight. I have to see Jamal Hill fight Yuri Parashka this year. Didn't Tim Simpson go on the M.

Mayer and say Yuri's like ready to go? Didn't he say that? Yes. I hope so. I hope so. So what's going on? That's what I'm saying. We don't know.

We don't know. Maybe they need Jamal to fight Izzy. Maybe that's why. Well, if in the world where it seemed like Michael Chandler and Cona McGregor was kind of being earmarked for December in the world where now that's not necessarily the December pay-per-view. Now you have some options open, right? Now maybe there is a Jamal versus Yeri type fight that happens.

And then at the end of the year, I feel like the back half of the calendar has gotten a little bit messy while they're waiting for the John Jones situation to settle. I'm now with Connor McGregor and Michael Chandler and Flux. I think they've got some things to sort out. But yeah, to be honest, if you're Jamal Hill, both. Both those fights are big-time fights, and I'd be sitting pretty with either one of those. Yep. Well, let's move on to this weekend's festivities. The point for round three goes to, I mean, it has to go to New York, Rick. It just has to. I mean, just making the case.

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that I'm energize so much. It's all right. The form of small, big, and they're pretty good. And I know, it's pretty pretty much to give it.

And I know that I'd give them these Summer Fridays and Rare Beauty by Selena Gomez. I'm, I'm pretty best ensemble the Cadowde des Cadowde CEDs, Cepora,

Cepora Collection, and other part of VIT. Procurys'AWus'A mini, regrouped for a better quality price. On link on Cey for Siforah, or in magazine. The UFC is back in Jacksonville, A.K., I feel like you're the first, the right person to go to. You can go ahead and do your call in a moment. But main event, featherweight division, Ilya, looking to remain undefeated,

taking on Josh Emmett, who just fought for the interim title against Yaya Rodriguez earlier this year. Yaya stopping a pretty good win streak for Josh Emmett. A.K., I don't know if you saw the betting lines on this. Ilya Tepore is like a minus 345 favorite heading into this fight, which I'm not surprised Tupori is like a good size favorite, but I just felt like that was, that's really wide, considering the experience that Josh Emmett has, being in five-round fights and just the level of competition he's fought.

But your thoughts in the matchup, what are these guys fighting for here, A.K.? What are the stakes in this main event on ABC this Saturday? First of all, first of all, people shout out Duval. Thank you for the graphic right there. Casey, pretty sure Casey. Shout out, shout us,

Dubal. Can I get, can I get some Duval's in the, Duvalls in the chat? For Tuporia, it's obvious. I mean, Tuporia can get a title shot right off of this win. I mean, that's it.

He wins his flight. I'm not saying he's guaranteed a title shot, but there's nothing, I don't think there's anything more he has to do. Emmett just fought for interim title. Bryce Mitchell was a people, Dominus, Bryce Mitchell.

I think people might want to see one more ranked win, and that's fine. I won't argue. But, you know, when you've got a dominant champion of Volcanopsi, he constantly needs fresh challengers, you could do a lot worse than Ilya. He's got that,

if he wins on Saturday, he'll keep that nice undefeated tag. That's always a fun thing to have when you're presenting a challenger who may be maybe the hardcore fans know, but some of the more lapsed fans might not be familiar with. You show them, hey, 14 and no.

Look at this submission you got. Look at this sick knockout of Chai Herbert. And then, you know, then you're building some intrigue. There's a lot of stuff getting the way of that, of course, Volkanowski, if he gets past Harry Rodriguez, as we know he might want to sort of start

campaigning for that Makachev rematch. Fans, I know fans still want to see that. I think the UFC's very interested in it. First fight, super competitive. So, Tupori is fighting not for an immediate title shot, but to, at least for the opportunity that if he wins,

have the option to sit for a bit and again and see what happens with Volkanowski. Because if Volcanowski does defend again, I've got to take a quick look at the featherweight rankings here. I just really can't, imagine who would be above Toporia, unless you think Toporia has to go through Arnold Allen. You know, Alan just had that tough loss to Holloway.

It would really be, it would really have to be Toporia. There's a lot of great names of Featherweight. He's just right now is the best mixture of a guy who has experience, but is also young, also still up and coming. If he lost to Volkanowski, he could theoretically put together a run and fight Volkanowski again somewhere down the road. and talking about sort of opportunity and age, that's what Emmett's fighting for, man. I mean, listen, to stay relevant. I don't know if he gets a title shot again,

certainly nine times soon. If he beats Toporia, great, holds on to his spot, takes his kid's hype. Again, stays in the winners column, stays relevant. But it's a long climb, I think, for Emmett to get a shot at either whoever ends up having the belt of the future, whether it's year or Volcanowski. So it's a must win for him in that sense.

Otherwise, we start, he loses on Saturday. we start getting to these talks of retirement. He's 38 years old. We start getting talks of, oh, is it, you know, should he try fighting it lightweight, which would be, you know,

comfortable for him, but he'd probably have a ceiling there. He's not the biggest guy. So, yeah, he is fighting to stay irrelevant and avoid all that talk that comes from the fans and us talking to the media. We're like,

oh, should Josh Hemet, should Josh Emmett hang it up? And I don't think any fighter wants to put up with that crap. So there's a lot on the line for him as well. You're correct. I'll eat to pouria minus 345, a comeback on Josh I'm at plus 285. Are you surprised that it's this wide?

No, because I think, man, quite frankly, I think I think I'ma Tupori is a bad style matchup for like everybody in the division. He's just too well-rounded. He's just too sharp on the feet. He's shown he's also great on the ground. Like I don't say it a lot, but I think he's got that future champ potential. I don't really, I'm not one of those people who like really just like calls everybody a future champion. Like it's, it's been rare, few and far between.

Hamzot's definitely one of them. he smells like a future champion man he's just so well rounded and when he smells blood he's he's an absolute killer you look at the rankings like if he takes josh emitt's spot at five if he can get the win and take josh emet spot at five there's arnold allen or tacon or take a max hollowayyer roderigas in front of them and if i'm any of those guys like i probably don't want that smoke but i might be forced into it it feels like maybe like i don't know if you get a title shot off this maybe in the in the case if um Volkanowski moves up to 155 and starts chasing that title.

Now, all of a sudden, you've got more opportunities for contenders, and now you've got two people that need to be in a title fight, and maybe this is the one that gets them. But if this is not the one, maybe you see how the Max Holloway Korean zombie fight plays out, not that there's much intrigue or surprise to that one. After Max Holloway dust Korean zombie, you kind of swoop in there,

and maybe you do the max fight, can you be the one to break Max Holloway that wasn't Alexander Volkanowski, and then you're ready for title contention. And if not, you know, Brian Ortega's been on the sidelines for a while. He's, I believe the exact, not the exact quote, but the sentiment of it was, Toporia was calling out Ortega and Artega said like, you're not going to talk your way up here. If even Josh Emmett, it's not talk anymore. Now it's time to put pen to paper.

And I wouldn't be mad about it, Elliott Toporia, Brian Ortega fight. So this feels like, to A.K.'s point, like the one step before. But man, this would mean something. And I think it would put the top of it. that division on notice. So, and as far as, as far as Emmett goes, yeah, he's, he's up there in age, but he really hasn't lost a lot in his career. He's, he's been very, very steady.

So this could be one of those where he bounces back and gets right back on track like his last loss. But we'll see. He's getting up there in age. I don't know how much more he has to prove. Is he going to be a title challenger again? I really doubt it. But I think he can still hang around.

Like, we just watched 39-year-old Jared Kahneneer. kind of reinvent his title candidacy over the weekend. So I wouldn't say that it's impossible. But yeah, there's there's a lot. I think there's a lot more downside to losing than there is upside for winning for Josh Emmett. But it's still a very important fight for him. Yep. Love the fight.

I do actually, I actually feel like if I Elliott goes out there and just waxes Josh Emmett and like stops them, gets them out of there, like inside of three rounds, I think Volk will be like, all right, cool. like I kind of want to fight that dude like that'd be a fun little challenge although he's got to get by Iyer Rodriguez and that fight is going to absolutely rule so last thing there is going to be a preview show about this card tomorrow

I believe it's at 3 p.m. Eastern with the wonderful colleagues of mine at MMAfighting.com doing the preview but A.K., what is the best fight on this card that is getting no attention? I don't mind the coal main but I would say that's getting a fair bit of attention I'm going to go off main card here

I'm going to go off main card I am really you know what oh god I got to say it's obvious Tatsuro Tira Tatsuro Taya Taitra Clayson Rodriguez Flyweight unders are back Listen flyweight unders are back

These guys are both young There are a few younger guns than Tutsuio Tzu Tira in the entire UFC I think he just recently I shouldn't say recently but earlier this year turned 23 years old Clayton's not old by any means 27

both guys are flyweight finishers Tyra has just looked again he's the guy he came up he debuted I don't want to say the same card but like I think the same month as like Makayev and listen I totally understand why Makayev is the more hyped prospect

I do the key is further along despite the age being similar but man Tyra was really really sneaking under the radar there's just you just don't hear a lot of buzz and I think he's like always opening cards this time he's the second sorry, the second fight, the second fight on the preliminary cards.

So I love how that, and maybe they don't finish each other, but I think there will be some fun scramble, some fun exchanges. I think you're going to see two guys who are both going to have good careers in the UFC. If they don't fight for a title, we'll end up ranked at Sir Tire, I would say for sure. Clayton actually also think has a chance to get ranked, even if he loses on Saturday. So pretty easy pick for me, flyweight's rule. And listen, there's also Zagas and Joshua Van, too, so people want to go that. Great showcase for the flywates, but I'll lean towards the Tower of Rodriguez fight for now.

That's a, that's my sleeper. That's a great pick. Near Rick. Best fight on the card getting no attention. It's the man that always flies under the radar. It's Neil Magny. It's Neil Magny and Phil Roe. I love that fight.

Phil Roe is on quite a nice little streak, and Magny's kind of been bouncing up and down. But this is the fight. This is the one that I, like, if Phil Roe can beat Neil Magny, I think. that puts him in a class that we might not have kind of seen for him at the outset. And I'd be impressed. And I'd like to kind of see where he goes from here. And Neil has another opportunity to be the guy who just gets in there with anybody. Tough, unranked, rank, doesn't really matter.

And either shuts them down or becomes a stepping stone to the next level. So I love this fight. And I love Neil Magny. He continues to do it and be underrated and be undervalued. But I will not undervalue him. I love Neil Magni versus Phil Rowe. Great fight. Yeah.

It's a pretty good card. Like David Onama is like always fun. Gabriel Santos is a fun fighter. That fight's going to be great. Randy Brown, Wellington, Tourman. That one probably ain't going to the cards.

Matusia, Becky, like Radzaboff's going to be really fun, especially if it gets to the ground. Tab of the Ritchie, Jillian Robertson. Like Jillian Robertson goes out there and beats Tabitha Ritchie at 115. Go for it.

Strap the Rock. It's good. And let's give her a person one 15. So lots like about this card. I will be there on Saturday. I'm pretty excited. I haven't been to a, haven't been boots on the ground for a UFC card in almost a year.

So I'm excited for that. So let us move on. Potentially, the point for round four goes to give him a dovo. A.K. It's two to two. Duval. And you know what that means? Shocker, I know.

We're going to the knockout round. One question will decide it all 60 seconds. for each of these wonderful competitors to give their response. New York, Rick, you are the champion. What are we going to do here? Do you want to go first or do you want to pass it over to AK Price's Right style?

I will always go first. Ooh, I love this. So we had a wonderful conversation a little bit earlier about the PFL and Bellator and there have been rumors, some innuendo if you will, about possibly PFL buying out Bellator, maybe a merger of some kind,

Rock Hoker said a partnership. PFL is on the table. Ray Cepho also confirmed that there are discussions going on. Ariel talked about it on the M.A.R. on Monday or yesterday, excuse me. Let's just say New York, Rick, that this deal happens. And the PFL folk, they call you on the telephone. They say, New York, Rick, we can't move this forward without your brilliance. You wanted to do Israel ad Assania versus Bo Nicol.

This is the kind of forward thinking we need in order to make this promotion. run to the best of its ability. So 60 seconds on the clock and do the best you can here because this is a pretty loaded question. If you accept that rule and this deal gets done, what's the number one priority? What's the first thing we got to do with this PFL Bellator merger? 60 seconds on the clock, go.

Yeah, it's to take the best parts of both companies, right? I think the PFL's tournament format and their ability to do something that's a little bit different than what the UFC is doing, not essentially falling into the UFC light trap is what I would keep from PFL side. Infusing that with the talent of the Bellator roster, which I think, you know, you alluded to, their champions are as good as they've ever been and the rest of the depth of that roster is what I would continue to introduce. And then beef up that super fight series. I would lean really, really hard into Jake Paul's involvement.

Make sure I get a fight for Francis Inganu. Now we've got some more options because of the infusion of talent for the Belmont. from the Bellator roster, finally be able to do Kayla Harrison versus Chris Cyborg. There's a lot that I, that I, my mind's already cooking. I'd be, I'd love to take the keys of the number two promotion in the world. The now, uh, PFL Bellator hybrid, but I actually think there is a lot that they can do to be successful and compete with the U of C. All right. So New York Rick gave his thoughts, but you know what? They can't just hand New York Rick the job.

He's got to fight for it. And the man who's going to try to take this position, a man that the PFLO Tour is all interested in, is the Prince of positivity. Alex Denekely, maybe they want a positive approach to running this promotion and putting them in a position they never expected they could be in. So, AK, you get the call. You're now the director of fighter operations for this new merging promotion and you have to make a move right out the gate to plant that flag. What are we doing? What's the number one priority in your eyes? One minute on the clock, go.

I mean, listen, thank God. Just adding Bell Tor and giving them the option of having their heavy roster to fight Francis, it just makes us a winning deal already. Like, I was joking about Ante Delisia before. There's a very realistic chance he's Francis' first PFL opponent. And bless 2022 PFL champion Antealegia, there's just not a lot of smoke there. But you have something more intriguing with Minnakov, with Ryan Bader, Valentine Moldov, Vadimkov.

Adam Nemcov, come up for a superfight with Francis. So there you go. That's the one thing is, is you have something for Francis. You're building your whole 2024 campaign around Francis fighting at least two times, getting those eyeballs on there, like I said, getting people through the door, and then you can work on selling everything else. And then I love the idea of keeping, some people would want to streamline it. I want to keep everything. I want the season tournaments.

I want the grand prix. I want the non-tournament fights. Keep it all. I've recently gotten into football, you know, soccer, footy. And like, they do all these weird mid-season tournaments things in addition to the regular season. all mixed in together and it's beautiful and it's the biggest sport in the world. And this will become the biggest promotion in the world if you give me that same kind of organized chaos in an NBA promotion.

I know what Casey's first thing is everybody fights in the round Bellator cage, even the PFO fighters. That would be his friend. Whoa, whoa, whoa. All right. Well, there you go. The two guys vying for the role. So cash your votes.

Get them in right there in the chat. And we'll give it like, you know, 45 seconds to 60 seconds to let the votes come on in. And yes, preview show tomorrow. Get excited for that. We should have a heck of a morning tomorrow. We'll have UFC Jacksonville weigh-ins. I believe they start at 9 a.m. Eastern. So, AK, we'll be on the ones and twos with the keyboard there.

So get excited for that. He will keep you up to date on what's going on. Are they still only at 9 a.m.? They're not earlier? I think they're at 9. Really? That's tough for the fighters, right? So they're getting like a barely a 24-hour turnaround. Oh, I guess that's not crazy.

But wow. Because, yeah, 1130 the next day, 9 a.m. Interesting. Yeah, ABC. It's that ABC life. Yeah. People's Pre-Fight show at, I believe, 11 a.m. Eastern on Saturday. Isn't that exciting?

Post-fight show, probably around 630 or 7. I mean, just hitting the sweet spot. If we had like two less fights, this would be like the perfect ABC card. And then we'll add on to the next one. Jinks it. Zagas and Mugulov is booked. So don't shink said. You could, I don't know if the man ever gets in the cage again.

Stuff just keeps happening to him. So you could end up with that. You could get with your less fights wish. I'm not even going to say what I want to say right now because I'm very high on Josh Van. And I want to be like, oh, he's definitely going to show up. But I'm knocking on wood, knocking on wood right now. So Casey, you're here on the screen. So something tells me we have a winner or is this a battle?

No, no. It is a battle. I need everyone to call them. friends and get their votes in now because it is a right now all free your vote all right guys all right call it just one 800 between the links no i do one for new york press two for a k lee let's let's get this going just just vote for alex and let's get this over with come on people i agree no i agree i like yes let's say i love what new york said okay oh man you're getting a humble approach it's too close it's too close i can't i can't let it go right

I mean, there was a clear winner. Come on. Do the right thing. Do the right thing. I vote for AK. Yes. And then next week, guys. Oh, no, PFL is a card tomorrow too.

Yeah, we didn't talk about that. No. No. Shane Burgos is back. The better divisions. Hopefully they get that residual John Jones and Francis and Ghanu face off. Oh, they will. How many times will they show?

Oh, all right. I'm sending the over under two and a half. over under two and a half. How many times do they replay that face off on the podcast tomorrow? Oh, well over. They do a thing where they bring the same guest person out multiple times within one broadcast. Like they'll bring Francis Ngano out and then they'll do an interview with them. And then four hours later, they'll bring him back out.

There's no way they don't use that footage 10 times. I will be so disappointed if it does not start off with last week on PFL. We saw it. We saw it. It's up for Hansigano. I'll be so sad as they don't say, please, please. It's PFO's version of Untuff, the push, the Connor Chandler push. We've seen like six billion times, but add that to your intro.

That has, that face off should be in their intro. And by the way, to be honest, this is exactly what they should do. That's exactly what they should do. They should do this 30 times until you can't your eyeballs fall out of your head because you can't see it anymore. They should play it between rounds. Yeah. It should be on a big screen just looping. In the arena.

Instead of cutting your way to the corner, just cut away to a little insert just the Francis John loop. Their logo should be, they should do like the NBA. Like the logo should be a silhouette of John and Francis. It's John, it's John grabbing Francis's bicep. Yeah, yeah. And Francis touching his belly. That's the logo.

Oh, man, that should have been your answer for the first priority, guys. Sorry, I'm going to. Okay. Are we closing? Poles are closing. very soon. Oh, man.

Oh, I'm just looking at a Casey's face right now, trying to get a read on the situation. Oh, my goodness. I think you should close them in 25, in like 15 seconds, no matter what. You closed it? Okay, I closed it. Oh, my gosh.

All right, Casey, reveal it. Is New York Rick with a successful title defense? Is he get it done? Or does A.K. Lee come on in and win the belt with a sub-500 overall record. This would be an amazing history to be made here on BTL. Who gets it done? Your winner with barely 50% of the votes, but just one vote over, I think, is, and still, New York. Oh, New York Rick gets it done. New York, Rick gets it up by like a vote or two. Holy smokes,

what a battle. What a battle. Unbelievable. This was literally our closest. Our closest battle ever. It was a good one. I felt it. I felt the closeness. There's a good one. A.K., how do you feel? How do you feel?

This is a great battle. I feel good. I feel good. I feel I perform better in this loss than somebody wins, if I'm being perfectly honest. I think this effort, there we go. I think this effort would have won me a lot. I think this would have won me a lot of other ones that I lost. So I feel good about it.

No complaints. No complaints. It is, it's always an honor to play with Newark Rick and to lose to New York Rick. I thought AK's record was going to be like the old DVD logo that would bounce from corner to corner and you were just rooting for it to hit exactly perfectly in the corner. Ah. New York Rick, congratulations on the win. I have to say, before you cut your 30 second promo here, I told me. I told Jed Mishu last week when I introduced him that you were the champion,

and he thought the show just fell off a cliff when he found out that you were the champion. He did not have nice things to say about your run, New York, Rick. So he'll probably be your opponent next week. Your thoughts on Jed Mishu just being negative about your championship run. Yeah, let me just first address this week and just say what an honor it was to be here and to face Alexander, A.K. Lee is the best. In fact, I think that the fans once again throughout this entire run, that I've been on have gotten it wrong and he deserved to win.

That's unfortunate. You guys need to do better at that. Probably take a look in the mirror and see what you're doing with your lives and and change that around. But the experience was still fantastic. It was great to be with you, Mike, Casey, AK. And as far as Jed, yeah, you know, he can't mean that. It comes from a place of love.

And I'm just looking forward to sharing the screen and the time with him, as always, because he's such a warm individual and he spreads that positive light. and I'm somebody who likes to do the scene. So when we combine that together, only good times could be ahead. So thanks for the kind words, Jed, and look forward to seeing you. Good stuff.

Casey, you can hit the music. We're done. There it comes. There it is. All right, thank you all very much. Back next Thursday, we will recap UFC Jacksonville. We'll get you ready for UFC Vegas 76,

Sean Strickland versus Avis Malgamadeoff. We're on the road to International, fight week. U.S. 290 is a great card. 2.91's a great card. The summer months are going to be fantastic. And hope you will join us for all of it. For A.K. for New York, Rick.

For Casey on the 1th and Tuesday, the iconic voice and that's your end. Take me home. I am Mike Jack. Backer next week. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links, an MMA fighting production on the Vox Media Network.

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.