MMA Fighting - BTL | Dana White, Jake Paul Signs With PFL, Dillon Danis, More

Episode Date: January 5, 2023

We're only five days into 2023, and the year in MMA is already off to a very dark start — including UFC president Dana White being shown on video slapping his wife during a New Year's Eve party in Cabo San Lucas. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss their reactions to the video of the incident involving White, and the silence from the promotion, parent company Endeavor, and others. Additionally, topics include Jake Paul signing with the PFL, Dillon Danis no longer fighting KSI in a boxing match on Jan. 14, the Bellator vs. RIZIN card this past Saturday in Japan, and more. If time allows, we'll also take some questions from the viewers. Host Mike Heck will be joined by MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew to discuss these topics. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-by journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. I'm Nilai Patel, editor-in-chief The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems. We've talked a lot about generative AI on the show lately, which is, a very big idea that is causing quite a few problems. And one thing we keep hearing about over and over again is that generative AI is causing a lot of problems in schools. There are a lot of people out there, including many of the listeners of the show who email us, who are worried about the obvious problem, students using chat GPT to cheat on assignments. But when our team went and

poked at the story, they found that the issues in education with AI go a lot deeper, to the very philosophy of education itself. If this technology becomes more ubiquitous, We'll have courses created by AI, graded by AI, with submissions from students, absolutely generated by AI. So it begs the question, what are we even doing here in higher ed? This episode is presented by Salesforce. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my...

The iconic voice of S. Mr. Lynn, welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. It's our first show of 2023, our first live video show in a few weeks. We're coming off the promotional festivist podcast episode that created a lot of debate in the MMA space. I got a lot of feedback about that, but we're back on this new year. And truth be told, I was hoping to come back to the show, have a full-on positive program, some hearty debate that there wouldn't be a lot of darkness

in the MMA space. And unfortunately, that is not the case. A lot has happened since we last spoke. None of it good. Yeah, I know. We'll certainly start with some darkness. We will hopefully build up to a little more fun, usual fight talk stuff.

And at the end, we're even going to let you guys chime in and ask a couple of questions as well, time permitting. But joining me in this venture, and I'm glad to have him here for multiple reasons. Mr. No Gray area, the exhibition king, the co-host of No Bet's Bard, and in a lot of people's minds, he's our Woody Page. Mr. Jedbushu. How are you, sir? Well, I love being Woody Page. Look, Mike, just tell the people the truth. Be honest. We had an opponent. Works for the worldwide leader in sports, but when they found out the subject matter, they weren't willing to talk about it. So it's just you and me, because we're real journalists, Mike. We're going to talk about the bad things that other people might not be

allowed to by their corporate overlords. Well, there you go. I was waiting for the horn to sound, but it is good to have you here. And let's just get right into it because I feel like you're probably the right person to have here for this topic of discussion. And we've been talking about it for a few days now. Dana White. We've all seen the video by now. New Year's Eve, Cabo San Lucas, on video having a seemingly heated discussion with his wife, Anne, things look to get a little bit uncomfortable. There's a wrist grab from Dana White. A comment of some sort is made. It looks like he whispered something in her ear. She slaps him. He slaps her right back in response. One slap certainly looks like there could be a second. And then there was a bunch of mayhem after

the fact that we couldn't really see due to the camera angle that we got and then obviously it gets separated and now we're here. So the videos released by TMZ on Monday along with the subsequent interview with Dana Waite who offers no excuses. He was embarrassed and rightfully so. They got a statement from his wife, Ann, as well. And I talked about it hours later on heck of a morning. We've heard notable names in the MA space talk about it like Ariel Hawani yesterday like Luke Thomas. I thought he did a fantastic job and others. You wrote a great and extremely fair journalistic article about this. And we'll get into it the last few days since that video has been released, has been like, because I have a lot of thoughts on that.

But right off the bat, what was your reaction to the video when you saw it on Monday night? My initial reaction was, God damn, dude, we are just starting this year off so shitty. look it's not good and there's a lot going on in this whole story like you said I wrote about it most of my thoughts are there didn't capture everything because still I'm still having new thoughts about this as it rolls out and as more people comment but it really breaks down to a couple of very simple things for me this is domestic violence you should not do domestic violence I think that it should be the least controversial statement I've ever made on broadcast. And yet, there are so many people who are not okay with that.

And it boggles my mind. The big points I want to make on this are, and I'll start here, credit to Dana White, he owned up to this. Now, I do not believe he should. be done owning up to this. But as Ariel pointed out in his, you know, speech about this, TMZ is trying to softball this as hard as they possibly can. And he, and they do, frankly, he gets the benefit of releasing a statement functionally

alongside with this. I can't prove it, but it seems, if you just look at the timeline, that it's pretty obvious that TMZ had this video, this info, and before releasing it, they way to to do this with Dana and then do it all as one whole thing. That's not great. It's in fact bad, but to Dana's minimal credit here, he owned up to it. And all the people who are making the excuses, Jamal Hill, he's looking at you, bud, he is not making those.

He is saying, I fucked up. This is not acceptable. I have spoken out about this. And now I am the one, this is bad. And that is, that's good. That is a start. That is recognition that, frankly, we haven't seen from Dana a lot with the myriad other bad things he has done in his career. And that's good.

But my overarching thought is that that should not be the end of this. That should be the beginning of what happens here. Because this is a problem. MMA has a domestic violence problem. And if you don't believe that, look no further than what happened the day five. after when Phil Barone allegedly beat his girlfriend to death in Mexico. That is that they are not the same. I am not here to tell you that what Dana White did and what Phil Barone is accused of are equivalent. What I am, what I'm here to say is that they exist on a spectrum and in large part,

the one can and has historically directly led to the other. It is not okay to do this. Again, that should not be controversial. That should be wildly acceptable to everybody listening, engaging with this story. And MMA has a problem in this. There is, I wrote in the article, and I brought it back up in 2015, HBO Real Sports did an investigation on this problem, coming off the back of the War Machine Christy Mac story. It is twice as likely for a person involved in mixed martial arts. to have domestic violence issues, to be a domestic abuser than it is for the general U.S. population.

That is not a mistake. That is part of this. We have to engage with this in a meaningful, substantive way. And it is like what Dana White did is bad. We can, he can use this as an opportunity for growth for betterment. I don't think he's going to. It seems like everybody involved in this ESPN to him to endeavor. is just trying to be done with it.

We shouldn't allow that to happen because, as I wrote, if this happened anywhere else, what happens? If this is Roger Goodell doing the exact same thing, he is almost certainly getting fired. If you, I am not here to tell you Dana White should be fired. I am okay, frankly, if he keeps his job, though I'm uneasy. It's not great, but I can at least accept it. if he keeps his job by doing the things that would be expected of anybody in this circumstance

of he made the public apology fantastic that's a great start he should be suspended he should be fined these are the things that would happen in any other normal sporting organization he should have to work with dv groups you know do a PSA figure out what happened here and not just say we were drinking because that is bullshit i have been hammered drunk in my life and i have never beat someone because that's not something you fucking do. This is a huge, huge story. And it is honestly made all the bigger by the fact that so many people think it is not a story.

And that is the part that has killed me over the last couple of days. The response to, I don't know if this is not humble or whatever, what I thought was a super fair article. I thought my piece on him was, exceedingly fair, more so than I needed or had to be. And the backlash and response I've gotten in the past 24 hours makes me imminently sad because it is all just bullshit. He did a bad thing.

He did wrong. He acknowledges that he did wrong, but he has to be held to account. It is not just saying, I fucked up. This isn't, hey, man, I fucked up my ranking. I put Jake Matthews in the top 10 that was stupid. There's much more substantive, much more meaningful. And the fact that this is going to be a problem. Not Dana White's specific situation,

but there are going to be domestic violence issues with UFC fighters moving forward. There is no question that this will happen. It is endemic to this sport. Having a man who on video and acknowledges that he did this essentially be the final arbiter on people like on future instances of this it doesn't work man none of this works he has to be held to account and i am really really saddened to think that he most likely won't be yeah the video was was tough to watch it was awful and i agree with a lot

of what you just said i agree a lot of with ariel said yesterday including how dana handled the interview with tm z because like you said and like Ariel said, the interviewers, they gave him opportunities to make excuses. They gave him out. And to his credit, he didn't take them. And there's not much I could add to what you just said, because I've talked about it on multiple heck of a mornings. But since Monday, here is what has happened. Like you said, the MA community has reacted to it. And a lot of us are on the same page here. And like you said, others have been defending him, including fighters on the UFC roster and even other fighters outside of the UFC.

Other fans have defended him. I'm not looking at the comments. There might be fans defending him right now, which is insane to me. It has to be. Which is insane to me because he's not even defending the actions of the situation. Equality, she hit him first. Miss me with that absolute crapola. You will never, ever convince me that this is defensible in any way.

and Dana said something similar himself. So those opinions, hard to miss. They've been somewhat loud and boisterous at times, and it has made me sad too. But what has been even louder and much more awkward to me, Jed, is the silence from everybody else involved in this. We have heard nothing from the UFC. In fact, they have told us,

and they have told other journalists and reporters in the space, in essence, our response is, see the TMZ article. That's our response. What the hell is that? Endeavor. Ari Emanuel. And Ari Emanuel has been a guy who has stood for injustice and putting his feet in the sand for bad things happening

and trying to take a stance on stuff. Nothing from them. ESPN, they're not going to comment on it. They told me that already. Even Turner Sports, who was scheduled to air this stupid Power Slapp League beginning next week, nothing from them. There have been zero repercussions as of yet.

And if you're asking me now, if there will be, I would be stunned if there are any public repercussions. But Jed, to stay silent, to not say anything. Like, not even a, hey, this is a developing thing. We're communicating with all parties involved about the appropriate action to take, stay tuned. Not even that. Like, not even that. Like, I wish I was surprised by this. But I will say, I'm a little surprised that there has been absolutely nothing from anybody, man.

Like nothing. Like even just a bold little blanket statement, we're aware, we've seen the video, we're talking to people, we will have some decision in the coming days. Are we something? What have you made about the deafening silence of this? Like we've talked about some of the reactions

of the defending of Dana White in this whole situation, but the fact that the parties involved aren't saying anything about this? What have you made about this? This is crazy. It's baseline cowardice, man. And there ain't no other fucking word for it. I will tell that directly to whoever whoever is in charge at ESPN, any of them, I will tell them that at endeavor, at anywhere.

Because this isn't, this shit isn't hard. Like, it just isn't. I don't understand what is. The only way for me to understand it is in the most cynical and unfortunate terms possible. Because, look, this is the easiest layup when it comes to a PR problem. you just have to communicate. If down the line your answer is shitty, okay. But to not have any response at all,

it only creates terrible, terrible outcomes. And it's so, it's not hard. It's exactly like you said. ESPN could have, instead of essentially saying, we just distribute the product, this isn't our fucking problem, which let's be clear.

That's a horseshit answer. Like that's obviously not true. if if anything like this happened in any other sport that they distribute, they would be like, ah, well, maybe we will reevaluate what we're doing it, but that's just not the case. They have a $200 million deal a year with the UFC, so they are not trying to ruffle feathers if they can avoid it. Endeavor, the UFC is a huge linchpin to their financials at this point in time, functionally, so they are just trying to not be held to account.

And frankly, it's all because of what. this is because this is MMA. Because combat sports have largely existed on the periphery of normal sports reporting and the sports psyche. For whatever reason there, or you can make arguments for a number of them, I don't have the

answers for why. All I know is that this sort of shit is allowed to happen here. Dana White is allowed to make horrible statements about people on a consistent basis and just sort of gets a pass. The only time, the UFC,

has ever really been held to account in any capacity was when a sitting U.S. senator was like, hey, it's not okay for you to keep holding events while we're figuring out what COVID is. That was it. The senator putting pressure on Disney to be like, hey, Dana, check yourself. And I don't, that's probably not like going to happen in this instance. So it's the only thing that is going to happen. I'm actually pretty confident at this point.

The only thing that will happen is that the TBS slap league is going away or going to change or going to get delayed because the PR nightmare of running out Dana White's power slap league of two weeks or whatever after he is on video slapping his wife in a case of very clear domestic abuse, that you can't do that. But other than that, I mean, shit, Jeff Wagonheim of VSP and tweeted, not long ago that ESPN is functionally telling them not to say shit about this. That here's the tweet.

We've been told not to write anything in Cindy are on social media about the Dana White situation. I understand why and I have abided by that. I just ask you all to understand that some of us at ESPN do not have as soft to take as this on domestic violence. That is straight up ESPN telling them, hey, don't do this. Just back off. And that's... that's that's bullshit man i don't know i don't know how else to deal with it i i know people that work at espion this is not a dig at them i have friends that work for espin and m m m m that i respect a great

deal this is just horseshit it is so not hard to deal with this and the fact that they can't it it it's disheartening and it it just boggles my mind how not difficult it is you don't have to come out and say burn him at the stake, but you have to come out and say something. You can't just hope this goes away. And that's, it's going to make me talk about it more. It is going to make this a bigger thing because I'm going to keep talking about it because someone fucking has to until they say something,

until they stand up and be goddamn adults about this. Because this is not a thing that can be allowed to persist. It's just, we have to be better. We have to be better. over the last five minutes or so Jeremy Bader tweeted out that a war and I'll this is quote a Warner media source tells me Dana White's

Power Slap series is no longer listed on any internal programming schedules and all ad spots have been dropped the death of the deal I'm told is basically just paperwork at this point so we have not confirmed this we will obviously reach out and if we are told the same thing we will update that. But if this is true, there's no chance.

If that first episode airs January 11th, Jesus Christ, I mean. Everyone involved should be fired. And I mean that very seriously. If they air Dana White's Power Slap League a week and a half after he is on video slapping his wife, fire everyone, every person who thinks that that can still go on.

Before we kind of put a. bow on this, and this is not the last bow that we're putting on this. I'll tell you that right now. Like, I understand that Dana is the face of the company in a lot of ways. And I understand most of the sports world knows who Dana White is. And I know that MMA is looked at as the stepbrother in a lot of ways. I get it. And what he has done to build the brand and all that 100% people are going to remember that. But they're also going to remember this. And because of the place this company is in, this deal with the S.P. all of these other massive money-making deals they have in place,

if Dana, the UFC, Endeavor, and everyone else made the collective decision for him to actually step aside, whether it be for a year or forever, I wonder, like, how much would the product suffer? Because to me, I don't think it would suffer that much, like, if we don't have FIT Fridays or him doing the, if you don't know, now you knows, because guess what? Most of the people who are going to watch these cards, especially those fight night cards, they already freaking know anyways. They already know anyways.

So if he were to step away, Jed, like if they come to this decision, and I don't think this is going to happen, but if somehow they all get in a room, they're like, dude, you got to go. How much of an impact would there be, in your opinion on the product, in the business, if he stepped away?

Almost none. Straight up, almost none. Dana doesn't, Dana is that's the sneaky part about all this is this is what happens when you structure the business and the way that you structured the business. The UFC is built not around the fighters. It is built around Dana White and the three letters, the brand. It is built around the brand and Dana White is synonymous with the brand.

And that is good for a lot of business purposes and for their growth. It has been instrumental to accomplishing what they've done. The downside of it is you are putting all your head. in one basket. And the Dana White basket is not the most socially acceptable basket, oftentimes. And when something like this happens, he has to, like, it becomes a thing. If this, if Dave Schaller doesn't work there anymore, but, you know, like, if some other random UFC exec did this, it would still matter and be relevant, but they are not the

face of the, if this was Sean Shelby, Sean Shelby is not the face of. of the UFC. People don't know him generally. It is a big deal internally and should be handled and treated the same way, but it is not front page news because Dana's the fucking face of this thing, man. The benefit of

how they've worked over the last few years, though, is that Dana doesn't matter to the overall thing. They would probably suffer in the short term immediacy because he is the biggest, because he's the the fulcrum, right? He's the guiding light. But that would, whoever replaced him would very quickly just get up to speed and they'd be fine because the machine turns with or without him.

They are going to produce the content, whatever. There would just be maybe a little bit less of people turning into Dana White's looking for a fight or whatever. It's, this would substantively not change at all. And that's part of what has frustrated me about the lack of accountability and response here. I'm not asking for him to be fired. I'm asking for him to be held to account, which, again, is not a big ask. It's incredibly reasonable.

And in the scheme of things, I'm not asking for a lot. I'm asking for him to be fined, take responsibility, which he's already done, and then work with people to recognize and improve the sport. Those are very reasonable asks here, and would be reasonable demands of him in this position,

especially because they don't fucking, need him, man. They can be just fine without him. He got this sport to a place. It probably wouldn't have been without him. I will, I'll acknowledge that. I've given him his due forever. The sport has probably passed him by anyway, and to have this is

just not necessary. And so it's all, it's all really frustrating. And it's like, you can hold into account because he is not pivotal to the success of this promotion. It will be just fine if he leaves tomorrow.

Last thing I'll say, and I'm with you, Jed, we're going to keep talking about this. And you know what? If you're watching right now, you should too. You should keep bringing it up and keeping this in the news cycle because that is how we can make any kind of an impact. That is how things get done. If this just becomes another MMA news cycle story that is here today, gone tomorrow, then what? Then what? You can't sweep this under the rug.

And I don't care what frigging fucking. the UFC might book over the next week and a half. That's cool. We could talk about them and we can predict who will win and so forth and so on. That's great. But we need to keep talking about this. This can't go away. Even if they announced John Jones versus Francis and Ganu in the middle of this show,

we need to keep talking about this. The people that should be saying something may not be saying anything, but that doesn't mean that we can't. And we will. And you should too. and I know that it's hard to transition from that, my friend. But here we are, I do. I want to say one more thing on this.

Absolutely. One, I've a thousand percent agree. We can quit talking about this when something happens that's meaningful. When outside of an apology, something meaningful happens. He shows contrition in a legitimate way that is not just an apology. Then I can say, cool, he, because I believe his apology. Like, he sounded genuine. Like I, and that's why I started off saying.

He sounded genuine about it. And so I believe that. But you wouldn't, the way things work is you apologize. And if the thing is bad like this is, you show contrition in a substantive meaningful way. And that's all I'm asking here. The other thing, I debated whether I wanted to bring this up, but I do because I see it a lot. I've seen it so much. And I want to raise this topic for a very, very specific reason.

The eye, none of the defense of Dana White is, is viable or useful or good. It's all garbage. It's all fucking horseshit. And if you're one of the people who believes it or is spouting it, you're just wrong. It's okay to be wrong, but I would implore you to look inward and think why a lot of really smart, educated people on these sorts of subjects are dismissing you outright. The idea that she hit him first is the most frustrating part of this. in general because you are just actively not looking at that scene. We didn't get the whole thing.

We didn't see them come into the club, etc. But from the initial part of that video, she appears to be in distress. Dana White is grabbing her, holding her hand, not holding her hand, but grasping her hand. And it appears that she is turning to walk away

at which point he grabs her wrist. She slaps him. that is an appropriate response for anybody who is restricting you from walking away this is not she slapped him first so he can hit her back that is a bad argument in general but the initiator of this sequence was not anne white it was dana white and i just i've seen that so much and i it's so stupid and it it really really shows a total inability to reckon with with what abuse is with the situation at hand and how things are playing out. It is not she hit him first. She responds violently to him and maybe

she shouldn't hit him. I'm not willing to say yes or no to that. The circumstances that created that were Dana White. Based on that video, it looks pretty clear. And based on what he said, based on his thing, I fucked up, I did wrong, this is not good. You don't have to defend him on this one. You don't have to ask for his head, but do not defend what has happened to your people. I am begging you. Well said. Support for this show comes from the Home Depot. This holiday season, take advantage of savings on the wide selection of top smart home security products at the Home Depot. The Home Depot has everything you need to make your home smarter with the latest technology and products that let you control and automate your home.

And with brands you trust, like Ring, Blink, Google, and more, available in-store and online, often available with same day or next day shipping. So you can protect your peace of mind, whether you're away or at home this season. The Home Depot. Smart homes start here. Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left.

Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster, The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-by journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible.

We could talk about this for another half an hour, but I figured we'll try to spice things up in a little bit more of a positive way. All right now, we're not. We mentioned that. This has been such a bad year, four days in. This is wild. And who knew that this thing that we're about to talk about is like not even the most weird story of the year? It's far from it. It's 2023. And Jake Paul is not just an MMA story because he's calling out and boxing MMA fighters. He has actually taken that next step to adding MMA fighter to his resume because early this morning, New York Times released a story and reported, that, which has since been confirmed by the promotion in Jake Paul himself, Jake Paul has signed a multi-year deal with the PFL. He has a position with the company. He has equity in the company, along with his business partner, Nikisa Badarian. But on top of that, he is expected to compete in an MMA fight for the PFL and could have his first fight as early as this year, part of that

Super Fight Paperview Division. How about this, Jed? Jake Paul. to the PFL with the expectations to fight as early as this year. What did you think when you saw this? Oh, my first and overarching thing is I don't know if it's been come out yet or not. It's scheduled to come out today if it hasn't. I'm doing a year interview series for the major promotions, and I wrote on Bellator. And the headline that I submitted was Bellator remains the number two promotion in the sport for now. and generally the concept of the piece is Belator had a fine 2022.

They had some highs. They didn't have any like super huge lows. They are sort of just what they are at this point. But their biggest problem is that they seem to be losing market share to some extent. They still have by far the second best roster in the sport. But they don't, nobody cares about Belator. And that's harsh. and I know Belator has probably

listened to this and gets mad but it's true like there are more people who are energized by one championship and by PFL than by Belator at this point they are not really getting people up particularly for their ends and outs

and so I was mostly right about like hey they need to do better because PFL and one are coming they are coming PFL's coming off its best season never it's poised to do big things and then damn if they didn't do it right

this is massive for the BFL I have absolutely no idea if Jake Paul's gonna end up fighting I suspect he does because he is largely followed through on the things he said in this regard you know and

he seems to be interested in doing it and he certainly boxes so it's not a huge step here so I think he probably will whether he does this year or not, I don't know. But look, if the PFL can do, can promote or co-promote or be part of a duopoly of fights, boxing in MMA between Nate Diaz and Jake Paul, congratulations. You're just moving into the number two spot in the world in this.

You are, and you're broadcasting it on ESPN, like, or Disney subsidiary. the CEO of your promotion hasn't been caught on video beating his wife. So you're doing great if you're the PFL and this is a huge signing for them. Like outside of the fact that Jake Paul is going to bring more eyeballs, he is going to bring more interests from other fighters too. And that's the thing. We talked about it at the year and show. The million dollar purse is real.

People are like fighters are legitimately interested in that. And now they have a million dollar purse. and some of these guys have a chance to maybe box or MMA fight Jake Paul get that that big old bag, that opportunity. These are the things that make a promotion stand out. These are the things that will elevate a promotion. And this is great. This is just an unequivocal win for them.

I don't know how this could be anything other than excellent for them. Is there any downside to this? Because I know, like, there was part of the article is that there's talks about maybe getting like other influencers, other YouTubers involved in the MMA space. And I have to say, and I've talked about this before, I remember when I covered

BKFC card in Tampa was the Paige Van Zand versus Rachel Ostevic card, and they were going to do influencer fights. And everyone was like, holy crap. Like this is cool. Like people with like million subscribers are going to get in there and they're just going to punch each other

in the face, bare fist. I'm like, this is the coolest thing ever. And then they wore 14 ounce gloves and were like, it was just awful and it made no sense and it probably shouldn't have happened to begin with. But is there like any downside to this because of the growth of like the influencer combat scene that maybe this becomes kind of like a YouTuber, social media influencer takeover kind of thing? Or do you not see that as being a problem here? There's a world where there's a problem.

I don't think it's very likely. So if I'm sketching out how this can go bad, it looks not a lot like that, right? Where you undermine the credibility of your promotion in general by just doing this stuff. I don't think that has to be how it goes. I don't think how it's going to be how it's going to go. And I actually think the PFL is uniquely well suited to avoid that major issue. What I mean by that is think back to Bellator like, I don't know what, seven years ago. the Beltor business model was functionally

here are a bunch of old dudes who you know because they were famous once upon a time they are going to fight and on the undercard or the co-main event we're going to put the actual good fighters we have and we're going to try and Trojan horse in fandom with you know

Ken Shamrock versus Hoyce Gracie 3 and then have whatever was the undercard I'm sure it was like Patricio Pitbull or Michael Chandler whatever that was like of heavy part of their growth strategy. Mix results. Some success there, frankly, some non-success.

That plan works a lot better when instead of we're headlining a fight night card with Kimbo Slice versus Houston Alexander and we also have a title fight underneath that or whatever. Works a lot better when it's, hey, we're going to have some influencers fighting MMA

and then also we still have this tournament structure going on. We have the season-long fight thing. It lets them run in parallel, but with pretty clear defined lines, right? Like here, almost like weight divisions to an extent of, here's our weird influencer thing, here's this other thing that we do, and these two can mesh,

and maybe there will be some overlap. Who knows? Maybe Jake Paul doesn't suck as an MMA fighter. I'm sure he won't be a great one, but let's be clear, the bar is pretty low in this sport in general to be like competent and maybe he can find himself into a season or something like that maybe that's how this plays out but i think the overwhelming likelihood scenario is this is just going to draw more eyeballs going to bring more interest

to their product and if they can the big part of the big part of it is he's going to bring the eyeballs they just got to back it up man that that has always been the killer If you can get the guys in the door, you've got to give them a reason to stay. And the PFL this year mostly would have given people reasons to stay if they came in the door. But they've got to keep building that roster. They've got to get more people, better people, more exciting fights to back end with the influencers that they're probably going to move into. But overall, I think it's a win. Yeah.

And he gets the opportunity to kind of put his money where his mouth is with the whole advocacy. and getting fighter pay bumped, you now have equity stake in the company. You can use that power to your advantage. And who knows, maybe that'll help bring in more free agent talent. Maybe they make more money. They see the grass is greener because Jake is using that advocacy for good, for one major promotion,

and maybe others will fall suit. But I don't think, like, look, I like the video. I respect the gusto of Jake Paul to not only call it Nate, for a boxing match, but to calm out for an MMA fight, what are the chances this tofer happens? Like I said, I respect the fortitude. I just feel like getting Nate Diaz into a PFL cage, whether it's with Jake Paul or not,

kind of highly unlikely unless they're willing to do some sort of a co-promote with Real Fight Inc or something. Do you see a chance that we see Nate Diaz versus Jake Paul in an MMA fight this year? Do you think that actually happens? I don't think we see it this year. I will give it 40% to happen early next year. Here's my thought, right?

I think the PFL is probably open to co-promoting with Nate Diaz and Real Fight Inc. Not on a recurring basis, because the truth is how many fights does Nate Diaz really have to offer that left, right? I don't think they're that many. Maybe I'm wrong. People still love him. So I could be wrong. But it's, you know, the Jake Paul, that's a big fight. It's a big boxing match.

And frankly, it's probably a pretty big MMA fight too, if we're being real about it, even though Nate should clearly win. Probably still a pretty big fight. Then there's not a ton of other free agents out there that you're like super interested in him doing MMA fights with. More can always come. I think eventually we are going to get that Connor McGregor trilogy outside of the UFC. But there's not, you don't have to.

to be like, I'm going to have Nate Diaz fight three times and we'll co-promote with him like he's Fador and M1. I think what we're looking at is those two are going to box each other sometime this year. I think that's pretty locked in. It feels pretty safe to say that's going to happen. Then I wouldn't at all be shocked if they box late summer, early fall, and then Jake says, all right, let's do the MMA fight. Come to PFL one time PFL fight.

We do it. I gave, because Jake's going to win the boxing match, but says, hey, come do this, then they can do that. They can continue to build and build momentum and energy. It's probably not the most likely scenario. So, you know, that's why I only get into 40%. But I think it's pretty possible. I will say the other part of this that is hilariously funny to me, man, Bellator, way to

fucking miss the boat, guys. Consistently just dropping the ball. Jake Paul promotes his boxing on showtime. You are on showtime. We were talking about this like a year ago. The best possible thing is for them to work this in together. They are already work on the same platform. You can make this happen.

And somehow, like with Kayla Harrison, they just fucking whiffed. what they cannot close the deal on significant moves they get sarah mcmahon but they can't get the pieces that matter man that promotion is just it's a tough scene man it's tough for bellator hey look logan's still out there i think logan's more likely to join the ufc yeah maybe he's doing i mean he's doing pretty damn well in w v e right now So yeah, we'll see, we'll see what ends up happening. Tough one, I'm sure, for Bellator to look at. But I do want to talk about Bellator because they had a collective co-promotion with Risen this past Saturday, right and early. I got to say, I did a whole heck of a morning about this little bonus show that dropped Monday morning. I gave it an A minus jet.

The quality of the fights, I would probably give it a B overall, which still. a pretty good score because although after watching Rise in 40 that's interesting well I mean there's just the Rise and 40 car was just so chaotic and you wake up and you just watch oh are you are you separating the two out I'm separating the two out oh yeah I was what to say B feels low because yeah the the main card was maybe that but everything else is fucking fire right and and I've talked about like whether or not just like if you're going to do this concept again whether to separate them. Like do it like they did in 2019

where you have the Bellator card on like Thursday and then you do the Rising card on Saturday and you could still have interpromotional matchups or you could do Bellator versus Rise if that's neither here nor there. The B grade comes because I thought the fights were really compelling.

I didn't realize how high maybe the stakes were for some of the fighters because you could see it. A lot of them just did not want to lose and you could see it in some of the performances. I thought AJ McKee looked like a frigging superstar. I loved everything he did in that fight. Everyone was like, do not go to the ground with this guy.

And AJ is like, I'll go to the ground with this guy. And not only that, I'll go to the ground with this guy for like 15 minutes and I'll try a soccer kick and a big flying stomp to the head. I'll try all this stuff. Like AJ went out there and had fun. And there were five competitive decisions. I thought the rising guys performed well. I give it an a minus, one for the gusto,

because it ain't easy to go out there and put your guys, on the line and gets another promotion. So I'll give it that. And then two, just, and I'm not talking about the U.S. market and not airing it live and stuff. But A.J. McKee, to me, just kind of put it over the top.

I just thought it was such a great showing from him. And I think Bellator has to absolutely capitalize on this. So I'm curious, I know you hopped in during the main event on the stream we were doing, the heck of a morning Twitter spaces we were doing. But did you get a chance to watch the card at all. Yeah, I went back and watched it on the first or whatever because I didn't have anything to do later that day. It was great. Fights were, I mean, the Verizon 40 stuff, whatever

the undercard, however you want to call it, just infinite finishes. So that was awesome. And the main card was solid. It did feel a little reserved in some ways to your point of a lot of fighting not to lose for several of those competitors out there but I mean overall good I would give it an A I think it was one of the two big highlights

of the year for Belator I want to push back on something you said though which is this you made the statement that paraphrase you don't remember exactly what you said that you know kudos to them for having the hutzpah to go

put their fighters out there and potentially lose. I don't think that requires any moxie at all because who gives a shit? This is nobody. Nobody knows who Juan Archeletta is. Nobody gives you shit if Juan Archoletta loses to Sucho Kemp. It is not going to bring Bellator down. They went 0 and 5. That would at most have been like, while we're thin on content, here's a story about Bellator dropping the ball. Mostly it's just my experience with this was not oh, Bellator won, good for them, or it was just like, dude,

this is dope. This is just a cool ass thing. AJ McKee's stomping people is fun as hell. The $100,000 Samara outfit is fun as hell. MMA is supposed to be fun as hell. It had nothing to do with the outcomes

or who won. And I think we get, and I can't tell if this is just us like in the space, but it feels like sometimes we get a little too forced for the trees of like, well, wins and losses and you can't co-promote because there's the risk of your fighter losing, et cetera. That's true for the UFC. That is like, that is a thousand percent true because it looks bad if the UFC, who their only way to promote literally anything at all is to say he's the best fighter in the

world. If Alexander Volcanowski goes and loses to Patricio Pitbull, that looks bad for them. And it decries their ability to say the only promotional weapon they have in the holster. Bellator doesn't really say that that much, and it's not true whenever they do decide to say it, and we all know it. So it doesn't matter if they take DL. Super doesn't matter for Verizon, and it wouldn't matter for the PFL.

KSW came at Belator. Belator posted, who's next on Twitter yesterday or the day before for a thing, and KSW is like, we want that action? Hell yeah. KSW is fucking awesome. Do that.

because it does not matter who is winning these fights. It just matters that these fights are happening and that you are creating moments because the crux of the Bellator piece I wrote I already talked about. But my big thought is that like Belator doesn't create moments. The reason people don't care about Belator is it is not creating distinguishable moments so you can remember or look forward to. It is just UFC light in so many respects. And that's bad because nobody wants off-brands,

shit here. We're trying to do the real thing or make it compelling. This was compelling. This was why it was good. It was something to look forward to a cool event. The Stats Sabatelo thing was a moment that was cool. It needs more of this. They need to co-promote with KSW because they would just kick ass and who gives a shit if half of your champions lose to KSW champions. No one is going to care at all. They're just going to talk about how cool this event was. They should do this all the time. Listen, I would love to see Bellator just kind of take on that niche of we'll take y'all on. I mean, obviously the UFC isn't going to take part in this, but PFL jumping on board.

And I know they have the season structure. It's a little weird and it's different. But I think they could figure out how to do that. Yeah. What's some creativity? And you've been advocating for a Super Bowl of MMA for a long time. This is one way to do it. Like you don't need to take the whole, you don't need to take five PFL fighters.

Take one. Take one. Two. You know, KSAW. Do the Rider Cup. Do the. fucking rider cup of MMA. That shit is just

fun and it is, it does not matter because fundamentally you don't have the best fighters in the world. None of you do and if you are lying to yourself or to billions and billions of potential viewers, that's a lie and we don't have to pretend that you actually

have the best fighters in the world. You have some very good ones and some of the top 10 or 15 you don't have the bulk 90% of the people. I did this the other day. I think the actual number is like

88% of the top 15 fighters in the NBA global fighting rankings are in the UFC. Belator has like 10%. So everybody else has like two. It is collectively, it is just

you don't. So it doesn't matter if you guys win or lose. Like no one is going to care because nobody is tuning into Belator and is like, you guys remember when Kyoji almost lost a Hiramasu Okoku

No, nobody's saying that. It doesn't give a shit. Do the cool things, guys. Make things fun because if you are having fun and you're presenting a fun product, people are going to gravitate to you. I don't know if we've talked about this before on any of these podcasts.

Were you a fan at the time? I don't know when WEC was like cooking. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was watching. I wasn't like watching everything, but I would watch replay as a fights on versus, like, all the time. Yeah. It was the fucking best.

Because WEC didn't have the best fighters in the world. Turns out they actually had several of the best fighters in the world, but nobody cared. It was just like, dude, WEC has 155 and down, and everything is a banger all the time. They made people invested and cared. I cared so much about the WEC, and I don't give a shit about Bellator. Nobody does. You need to do those things more if you are them. because the PFL has a gimmick.

They have a gimmick, right? The season is a gimmick, and there are pluses and minuses to it, but that is a gimmick to build around. Bellator really is the UFC light, and that's a terrible gimmick to have. Like I said, I think Bellator had a great last quarter. Like, I really, I think they stepped up the fun. They finished well.

Yep. I think they got momentum. I think they have something that they can happen. That's the problem, Mike. How often do we talk about them having momentum? and they don't do shit with it. They had fun the last quarter. Have fun the first quarter.

I know we've got that CBS card coming up. They need to blow the roof off the gaff, as Patty Pimblitz has. They need to do cool things. They so often do get the ball to the five-yard line, man, and they can't punch it in for whatever reason. And I truly don't know what it is, but they have momentum. They need to build on it. And they need to keep building on it instead of,

well we've run out of good fights to make now we're going to do a Bellator Milan card and we're going to headline it with Mansour Banui or whatever like that ain't the answer man you've got to build on this this is going to be a very big year

for Belator I'm very curious to see what we're talking about at the end of the year I think they could be maybe they're the TCU Jed of the MMA space maybe they just come through in shocks people Maybe they'll shock you.

It would be like I want nothing more than to be all the way wrong about Bellator for this to be the year where they just throw caution to the wind and have fun and have fun because it it doesn't feel like they have fun that much anymore. They almost do. And like, do you remember how dope the Grand Prix's were when they started? They're like, we're going to do a Grand Prix and we're like, this is sick. And then they did the like cool picking your opponent thing or, whatever showcase. Wow, man, love that. That was awesome.

We talked about it for like a week and a half about how freaking sick that was. And they don't do that anymore. They just have a Grand Prix that they have become comfortable in their routine. And they got to get out of it. They got to do this. They got to back up that post on social media that says, who wants next? KSW comes at them. Sick.

April. Let's do something in April with KSW. We don't have to have all champions versus champions. maybe we get one or two champions there. Maybe they do a Rider Cup event with KSW and PFL and one or whatever in the summer. They have the most talent that is not in the UFC and they underachieve with it. They could be doing more and they almost get there and then they can't quite finish the drill. I would love for this to be the year that they start finishing the drill.

And then I'm genuinely excited about Bellator events. And I'm telling people, man, you got nothing to do on a Friday or Saturday or a Thursday or on tape delay because you don't have a consistent broadcast date, which is a huge fucking problem. You guys got to clear your schedule and tune into this one. I would love nothing more for that to happen this year. Good end to the year for Bellator. I enjoyed the card on Saturday. It's not one we're probably going to go watch a million times, but super compelling stuff, especially the main event. It was a lot of fun to watch.

Speaking of Bellator, did you know that Dylan Danis isn't fighting January 14th, Jed? What? He's not fighting KSI anymore. I know you're stunned by all of this. I did not. I did not see that coming. My reaction.

My reaction was this. This is my exact reaction. Yep. Oh, I laughed. I was like, what a fucking fraud. Oh, man. Though if you pay attention to his Twitter,

Twitter. The truth will shock everyone, Mike. The truth. Yeah. I don't know, man. I don't understand why people care about Dylan Dennis. Truly do not get it. Part of me thinks that it's like this really unfortunate thing where people just like to have a easy punching bag and they like miss that from their youth because most adults aren't in situations where you're in high school and can make. fun of the fat kid or the slow kid or whatever it is that shitty people do growing up. It was me. I got made fun of growing up BT Dubs. But yeah, like it's like I think that some of it is just that. There's like here is the easiest man in the world to mock. And so that's why he compels people because I truly don't get it. But yeah, this should be in a normal rational world, this would be the last time we talked

about him. She shouldn't be relevant. He's done nothing to be. be relevant, this should be the end of it. I suspect that that won't be the case and that he will here's what's going to happen. He's going to show up to the misfits event and he's going to get clocked by some dude at the way ends or in the crowd. He's going to get into an altercation and nothing's going to happen because it's never going to happen. And that's, we will just start this cycle all up again in a couple of weeks.

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Visit our Holtz holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. So let's talk about some fun stuff and then we'll take a few questions, especially after that delay. Adrian Yannas gets a big step up. It's in the works for April 8th, which is, from what I understand, slated to be UFC 287. It's going to fight Rob Fawn, it looks like. Agreements are in place.

apparently all that's left is dotting some eyes, crossing some T's and signing the damn contract. So we didn't get a chance to talk about this during the promotional festivist, but I know you're very happy about this fight. Talk about it. Wax poetically. Fight rules, like two of the better boxers, not just in the division, but in the sport. This is going to be, I'm a big Adrianian. I have him pretty highly ranked in my personal bandwit rankings.

we all know big rob Fonkeye at one point had them i think ranked like three just this is this is gonna be just two dudes chucking them and a lot of them not like throw we're not talking strike numbers in the 80s this is going to be a 300 strike fight uh unless somebody gets got early so this is going to This is awesome. It's like a brilliant step up for Yanez. It's a good sort of level set for Rob Fon and see where he's still at in the division. Can he hold his own down? If Yonaz wins this man, put the boots on him, strap him up, fire him to the moon,

because this kid's got something to him. So I love, love this fight. Yep. I think the powers that be in the UFC see that. And this is just an awesome fight. This is one of the best fights on the books for 2023. it's unfortunate we have to wait four months for it or three more months for it but hopefully we get there and we'll see what else is on this UFC 287 card I know there was talks I think Sherdog posted that it's got to take place in Brooklyn nothing confirmed on that end yet I do know the date is open according to the Barclay Center website but from people I've spoken to no one knows anything that date as far as anybody knows is in terms of location.

So that's cool. Another big name that people are talking about, Shafkat Rachmanoff. We were wondering, is he going to fight on this January 14th card after Jeff Neal had to withdraw due to an undisclosed injury? Turns out he will not be fighting January 14th.

He'll be fighting Jeff Neal, March 4th at UFC, what is this, this will be 285 in Las Vegas. Do you agree with this? There was a part of me that just wanted Shafcott to be on that card, sign anybody, let Shafkot just,

truck somebody because I think it's important. I think this is a big year for him. Get him on television, let him do what he does best, get him out there early and often. And if he could fight three, four times in 2023 and go three and zero, four, no, a lot of these dream matchups you have for him make a lot more sense than they do right now. But now we're going to have to wait two more months for him to get back in there. So your thoughts on the rebooking of this fight? I kind of hate it. the fight itself is fine I don't it's fundamentally not how I want to promote people

right like it's a fine fight but it's not a fight that is it's undeniable like one shopcott's going to kill Jeff Neal and Jeff I'd like Jeff Neal respect to hell of him as a fighter Shofcott's going to kill him so and Jeff Neal is not like a star so what is Shafka gaining outside of a good win over a top 10 fighter which means something but it means a lot more to just

have him nuke people in the public eye often. Like the UFC stumbled into Hamzaa Chamaev because Chimayev just wanted to fight a bunch and so they did the thing that you should do. They just let him fight like four times in the span of whatever it was three months. And people knew him then. And it didn't matter. The timing mattered far more than the opponent.

That's where Shavkat is right now. Not because he's not talented because he is. He's one of the five best welter rates in the world. but because welterweight is backlogged and he's not getting a title fight with two wins. Like he's just not because one, you're not going to sell him. Nobody's going to fight that dude. Kobe Covington ain't going to fight that dude if he goes to beat Jeff Neal. Like it's just you're going to have so it doesn't matter who he fights.

Just have him fight in January. Have him fighting April. Have him fight in freaking June. Three of them against warm bodies. If some of them are ranked cool, otherwise just have him do that. So he builds the momentum of, holy shit, this guy is the next guy. And then you can do, all right, now we just give him a top five dude, any dude. Gilbert Burns will fight him because Gilbert Burns will fight any motherfucker on the planet.

And he beats Gilbert Burns. Now he's the guy who gets to fight for the title against, I'm assuming, the winner of Hamzot versus the winner of Leon Edwards-Colby coming. Or not Kumar Usman. So, like, you could do it that way. stretching it back i mean you still can if how if you can get chavcott to just run it right back for you know a june or a may fight but i just i don't think this matchup demanded that it be pushed off it jeff neal just isn't bringing it like that just just just have schofcott fight a dude man any of them my my the thing i i was thinking about was just having fight january 14th against

anybody let him win and then you can still do the march shit yeah Yeah, you could do March 4th. You could have been in San Antonio and let Jeff fight at home in his home state. Still could do it in March, but this is what the UFC landed on, and it's going to happen. We confirm that Guram Kutatsalazzi is out of his UFC 283 fight with Tiago Moises. That was one of the bangers on this card. And Moises apparently is going to stay on the car. We don't know who he's fighting yet.

And it'll be coming to M.A. fighting soon. But it appears Casey O'Neill's return. is in the works for March 18th against Jennifer Maya at UFC. 286? That would have. 286 is London, right? So many freaking cars come together. Agreements are in place.

Still again, kind of like the Yanaz Fond fight. Eyes dotted, tees crossed, pen to paper. But looks like that one is probably going to happen, March 18th. So excited to see Casey O'Neill back in there. So before we go, let's take a few questions from the peeps, Casey. Shouts to the peeps who stayed with us to our top of the political team. I'm stunned. I'm telling everybody, hang tight.

We'll be back. I promise. Big shouts to y'all. That's why I love you guys. To the peeps. Is Cheeto versus Sanhagen an official number one contender fight or only in Cheetos case? It ain't even in Cheetos case. I think it might be.

No, not even a little bit official. If Cheeto wins, he probably does. doesn't fight again for the belt. The problem is, and this isn't a problem because Cheetah's dope, and I love Cheeto. And Cheetah does fighting, maybe not in the way that's right for everybody. Certainly in the way that's right for him and the way that is going to, that keeps him the beloved figure that he is.

Cheeto, Cheeto is not here to fight Jeff Neal three months later. He's here to fight in his schedule. I just want to fistfight a dude. Everybody else is waiting around for some shit. I'll go fistfight Corey Sanhagen. Guess what? Apparently, for reasons it's still boggle my. my mind. I still don't understand it. I'm never going to understand it. Whatever.

We appear to be planning. We're heading for Aljo versus Henry Sehudo, the dumbest fight in the history of mankind, but whatever. The winner of that is going to fight Sean O'Malley because Henry Suhudo is no man's fool. If he wins, he is going to fight the easiest opponent he can for the biggest amount of money that he can. And that is Sean O'Malley. And then he's going to retire because that's also what Henry Sehudo is going to do that. This is exactly what happens if Henry Sudo beats Aljo. If Aljo wins, he appears to have finally figured out that he fumbled the bag by not calling for O'Malley vehemently and will then probably at least get smart and just try and fight

Sean O'Malley. And then that still leaves Cheeto waiting. But Cheeto isn't going to wait. He's not going to wait until the end of the year at earliest, barring injury. So he'll fight some other dude. He'll fight Peoria. He'll fight whoever the hell because he doesn't give a shit, man. So it's probably not even the number one contender fight for Cheeto,

but it's certainly not official and definitely not. Of Corey Sandhagen wins. He's not getting the title fight. The winner of this is in the mix, as it were. Yeah, I like how O'Malley is kind of planting seeds because he's like, I hope Aljo wins. So Suhudo retires, then Aljo moves up to 145, vacates, and then we'll do B versus Cheeto for the vacant title.

And we promise to Cheeto too. That would be cool. But for the fact that if Aljo does that, then my boy, Arnold Allen, is still just going to be royally screwed at featherweight because if Aljo moves up, he's going to get a title fight. And so it's all just, and it's not going to happen. Al Joe is going to try and fight Sean O'Malley.

Because if he doesn't, he's a moron. So we're just, Cheetos will not fight for the belt at the end of this year unless something gets really, really fortunate for him. It's a good fight though. It's an awesome fight. Who won the air is the Bannon Way champion? I will get my answer on Sunday on the next one, 2023 predictions extravaganza,

which will be live on this here network at 11 a.m. Eastern on Sunday, so stay tuned for that. This is a tough one, man. It's a tough question, and I need more time to think about it, but I'll give my answer on Sunday. So I paradoxically have a future bet on Malinvera

because he's like plus a super big number. and I do think that he he's at least in the conversation like it's not impossible for him to get a title fight even if I do think it's unlikely and this I actually really like his chances against any of the dudes he might be fighting for the title so I have a future bet on him

but if I'm picking if I'm making the my thought is that it's it will be Henry Sehudo he will not my guess is that he beats Aljo when that fight eventually does happen. As I said, he's not an idiot. He will then fight Sean O'Malley. He will beat Sean O'Malley.

And then he will hold his belt, instead of immediately vacating in a failed power play to get more money, this time he will hold the belt as long as he can while desperately angling to fight Alexander Volcanovsky until such time as the UFC essentially tells him, either to defend your title or retire. And then he will retire. I think by the end of the year, it will be Henry Sehudo.

Okay. Let me see what that, what's his, what's the line on him? I didn't look at it the other day. We pull that up. No, give me the futures. Phantom weights. Suhudo's plus 200. Yeah, that's not value.

You can't bet that, but he's going to be the champ. No chance Peter Jan makes a comeback. I just don't think he's, I think he's at least, two wins away from a title shot. This is more of just time. Yeah, I don't, I am not, my guess is that the Bannamweight title is not fought for three times this year.

More of that. I think it's probably two. Peoria could absolutely get, I suspect he will reclaim the belt at some point in the future, but I don't, I think he's too, he's too far out of the picture right now. With the way. I'm really, I'm really fascinated how he's booked next.

Do you throw them in there with Marab for the story's sake? Do you begin like Ricky Simone? Someone like that? He's going to get Marlon Vera after Vera beats Corr-Santagan. Or if actually, frankly, either way, if Vera loses to Corey Santagin, he probably just gets Vera. Because Vera will take the fight. He's not going to sit on it. He's going to fight some dude in the summer.

He's going to do it. Or? And that fight is awesome. Or if Adrian Yannis beats Rob Fonn. Maybe they'd just give them that big of a thing. That would be. That would be sick. That would be so sick.

Or maybe the winner of that fight in general. Rob Fombe versus Peter now would be fun as hell too. Look, I still firmly believe Lightweight is the best division in the sport. But, man, Bannamweight is a decently close number two, and it is fun as hell, baby. Yep. That's all I ask for you. That's all I ask for you. It's fun as hell.

It is. I don't think it's always been number two or certainly for the last year because I think featherweight and welterweight don't get nearly the credit they deserve but I agree with that way the top 15 at bannam weight is worldwide incredibly fun the the 15 to 30 is still very fun but there I think that the like 15 to 30 at featherweight is better but I think the top 15 is 15 is is there's nothing you can't go wrong you cannot go wrong just throwing two dudes in and seeing what comes out unless it's marab vallifely versus jos aaldo literally the only bad fight you can make in that whole fucking division i'll never i will never get over it i never get over i know i know i've forgotten about it but now the memories are bad i'll never i'll never forget get it tattooed on me i think 35 is so interesting men's 35 is interesting because

that's to me that's the only division where it's really hard to and it's been around for a while there's no true goat in 35 division. There's guys who've had good runs like maybe you can say Dominic Cruz is the goat but that's just because you have to pick someone

but that's out. The truth is that's kind of the same way with lightweight. Habib has claimed the title but it's more tenuous than most people want to agree to. Like, it's, when you have super competitive, great divisions, you just, you're not going to get them.

You're not going to get a dominant run that is undeniable. Yeah, I just, particularly when probably the best fighter. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, at this point, I super don't see it happening. Yeah, I just don't. But, like, if it would have happened, it would have, like, Cruz should be the goat. Just the injuries took it away from him.

And he maybe still is, but, like, he was the best band and, for you know seven years four of those he had didn't have knees that worked and that that just kind of took it away from being the thing because otherwise he would have had a jos a josealdo wc like run for a good stretch of time that would make him unassailably the goat all right take a couple more oh who fights at mma first john jones or jake paul that's a good question actually that's a really good question i'm going to I'm going to play Alexander K Lee role.

I'll say John Jones. I feel I'm not, I am not fully confident that we see Ingano Jones in March. I'm wildly not confident. If someone had it be five bucks and said bet on it, I'm betting that it happens. I know talks are going well.

Who knows where the world is? Who knows what Inganu's injury is going to be like? I will be talking to Eric Nixick sometime next week, so maybe we'll get some kind of an update on what's going on. But from all accounts, seems like things are heading in the right direction. Obviously, there's some hurdles that need to be cleared, but I would say I'm like 58% confident that it happens,

and that's more than not confident. So sure, I'll say John Jones. I'm going to say John Jones, but I don't feel anything. level of confidence here. I'm mostly saying it because I honestly the most likely possible like outcome here might just be that neither of them ever fight in MMA again that like they never do it. But I feel about the same level of confidence that they both do. But if John is going to fight, it's probably going to be on a quicker timeline

than Jake Paul is. Jake Paul's going to box Tommy Fury. It looks like he's going to box Tommy Fury. It looks like he's going to box Tommy Fury and then there's the Nate stuff. And he will block Nate before he, MMA fights Nate for sure. So I don't think he's go John Jones. I don't think he's fighting Tommy Fury next. I think he's going to. I think that's going to finally happen.

I mean, poor Mike Perry out here signing contracts. I don't think Tommy Fury will win, but I don't think Tommy Fury is Dylan Dennis and like full of shit. Tommy Fury signed and literally would have fought him, but the government would not allow him. to do it for visa issues. It's a whole separate thing. But like, that's at least a real excuse as opposed to whatever the fuck Dylan was saying is his,

the truth or whatever. But I think that that happens because there's just a lull for somebody for Jake Paul to fight. Tommy Fier makes the most sense for this spring fight of his. Okay. It's a great question, though. That's a really good question. Who is the champion most in? of losing their title.

Who do you think, Mike, while I'm pouring over this? It's tough to say because, like, I would go prayer. I don't know. I would say Leon Edwards, but I don't know. I mean, honestly, I don't know. I honestly, it depends on who prayer fights.

Like, I don't know if he beats him. I just don't know if he beats them. Unless they go a different direction, but I don't see why they would. Here's, uh, I'm looking at the UFC's champions right now. I think there is a, a pretty realistic world where literally every one of their male champions

is different by the end of this year. Because Dave's, 55. Figies. Yeah. Yeah, so here's the thought. Let's say, if he does beat Islam, I don't think they're going to allow him to hold the featherweight belt.

If he wins the lightweight title, I don't think he's going to, but if he does, there's no, featherweight has too much going on. There are too many people for him to, and so is lightweight. There's an infinite number of contenders in both weight classes. This isn't an Amanda Newn situation. He's got to pick one. He'll pick lightweight. So he could just abandon the featherweight belt.

Aljo, I already said, I think he's going to lose to Suhudo. I think Moreno is going to beat Figurado. I think Islam is the most likely to still have a title by the end of the year. Same with Volk, both of them holding theirs, respectively. But if he does lose, then that would be different. Leon, he is not going to be a betting favorite to retain his belt. Pereira, same thing. There isn't a light heavyweight champion, so we're definitely getting a new champion there.

If Inganu fights Jones, I'm going to pick Inganu, but if in Ghanu, wouldn't shock me if Jones won or wouldn't shock me if Cyril Gahn or Curtis Blades or any of the other dudes who might step up in there or apparently Sergei Pavlovich can only kill people when he touches them.

So it's a really realistic world where every male champion doesn't have, like the current champion is not the same at the end of the year. If I'm picking who I think is the most likely, it's Pereira. but I'm not confident in that choice.

I think Pereira is the safe answer though, right? He's clearly the most limited of the various champions. Actually, F it. I'm just going to go stand on my corner because I think Pereira is going to end up fighting Izzy and I'll pick him to beat Izzy and so then he's got a good chance. I'm going to pick Aljo.

I think Henry Seudo is an atrocious matchup for Aljo, like a really, really, really bad one. And he is picking that fight for whatever reason. I think he's the most in danger. The build to that fight between you and I, I think it's going to be a lot of fun. So stay tuned. Are you on Aljo Corner? I think so.

Oh, I mean, look, God knows I don't love Henry. He's going to be so. Look, Sehudo's great. I'm never, like the things I've said negatively about Sehudo have nothing to do with his fighting ability. It just has to do with his business sentence because there is none. And it's been one of the war. It's been horrendous over the last couple of years.

No doubt about it. Al Jermaine Sterling is going to look like a welterweight compared to this guy. And not saying that Suhudo's skill set is bad. I don't think you're factoring in the head butts. Henry Suhudo has an enormous noggin and he knows how to headbutt people without getting caught, which is a very important skill in MMA. He's going to headbut the shit out of Aljo. Oh, man.

we got anything else I think we're good I think we're good all right good show we touched on some interesting as I'm looking at this

it is insane how competitive all of these white classes are this year yep and hopefully really the only one I feel

any level of confidence that they will retain is a sumachachev right now and I guess to an extent Volkanowski at Featherwe wait because I do. But like outside of that, I got no confidence that any of these, even to get to the

women's like, God love Wiley Zhang, but she's lost the rose twice and I don't think either were controversial. So Shevchenko coming off her worst performance, Amanan Nunes, probably going to retire this year. There's a world where at this time next year, it is entirely new champions from here to there. And within 365 days, 11 new champion. I guess 12 if you want to count women's feather weight. Nuts. I completely agree with the above Volcanovsky too.

And I don't even think this is going to be like a really UFC decision. I think they'll like kind of lay it out and kind of present it as ultimatumish. But I think in the end like there's just no like all the biggest fights he could possibly have. Yeah. All the biggest fights that Volcanowski could have for his piggy bank and his bank account are all 155. They're all 155. him versus Josh Emeter Yayer Rodriguez is a co-main event. But him versus Justin Keci or Dustin Porre or Michael Chandler

or even Connor McGregor, those are main event, big time blockbuster fights. So why would you even want to go back to 145? No reason. And you just took out and you would have beaten probably your toughest matchup because no one is on a nightmare for everybody. Oh, for sure is toughest matchup. For sure is toughest matchup.

He is starting at the hardest dude he can fight in this whole weight class by like unless maybe Jalen Turner comes on because Jalen Turner is just like two full weight classes bigger than him that's like the only guy I could make an argument would be tougher like

this is for sure as tough as so if he wins and he has the baked an excuse of a loss if he does lose it's not even his actual weight class there's no way he goes back to featherweight if he beats his Mockachev no way at all.

I don't know why he would either. But all right, you can hit the music, Casey. It's been quite a first five days of January and of 2023. Hit the breaks, M. May. Let's calm it down. Let's try to be more positive. And let's keep the important topics in play here. But back next week, normal show, back to competitive form.

Maybe Jed will have an exhibition matchup after all. So for Jed Bishu, I am Mike Eck. Casey on the ones and twos. Preacher you guys, being patient and stick it with us. We'll see you back here once again between the links next week. Good night. Love me, guys. This has been Between the Links and M&A Fighting Production on the Vox Media Network.

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