MMA Fighting - BTL | Dana White Responds To UFC Fight-Fixing Allegations, Jon Jones Fires Shots At Tom Aspinall

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

The UFC is in the headlines, but not for a reason they'd ever want to be after allegations of fight-fixing following the featherweight bout between Isaac Dulgarian and Yadier del Valle — which opened eyes with bizarre betting line movement, as well as del Valle getting an easy submission win in the first round. Dana White responded in a recent interview, but what's the reaction to the UFC CEO's comments? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses the situation, White's response to the situation, and where this could all go heading into the promotion's new streaming deal in 2026. Additionally, topics may include MVP cancelling the Jake Paul vs. Tank Davis event next week after a new lawsuit against Davis surfaced, the UFC returning to the APEX for an event headlined by Gabriel Bonfim and Randy Brown, Jon Jones' recent comments about Tom Aspinall's UFC 321 performance, and much more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they answer your questions all show long. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may have heard of the sex cult nexium and the famous actress who went to prison for her involvement, Alison Mack. But she's never told her side of the story until now. People assume that I'm like this pervert. My name is Natalie Robamed, and in my new podcast, I talked to Allison to try to understand how she went from TV actor to cult member. How do you feel about having been involved in bringing sexual trauma at other people? I don't even know how to answer that question. Alison After Nexium from CBC's Uncover is available now on Spotify. This week on Net Worth and Chill, we're joined by Sophia Bush, the powerhouse actor, director, and activist.

From her breakout role on One Tree Hill to becoming an investor, Sophia has mastered the art of turning talent into lasting wealth while never compromising her values. She gets real about the financial mistakes she made in her 20s and how she learned to negotiate in Hollywood's Boys Club. We dive deep into how she's building financial independence on her own terms. Get ready for an unfiltered conversation about money, power, and what it really means to get rich while staying true to yourself. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com slash your rich BFF. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. The fighting studio between the links. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL.

Happy Thursday to us all. And, you know, when we do shows like this, the one thing we hope for is that we have things to talk about. And holy crap, do we have things to talk about on today's program? doing the Q&A today because really there's one massive topic and I'm sure there's eight billion questions about it. So we figured, hey, let's just go live and let's talk about that. And if you guys have other things to talk about, we'll talk about that as well. And joining me to discuss those things and much more is the hot take kid himself, Mr. Doe Gray area, the climber of all climbers, the one and only, Jed Bishu, who is multitasking away.

and he's got a four on the board for UFC Vegas 111. That is correct, Mike. Glad to be here. I've had the last two days off, which was just terrific. Saw some films, relaxed. I don't know the last time I got two days off in a row that I, like, didn't specifically request off.

It reminds me of people, you know, most people have weekends. That's not really a thing for us. And it was, like, I woke up yesterday. I was like, oh, my goodness, this is another what does one do when you have back to back days off as productive i'm refreshed and i'm ready to talk i don't know what we're going to talk about because there's nothing going on certainly no scandals afoot in the world of mama so probably a boring show before start or four

fights above replacement for this weekend yes uh not much to talk about so maybe we should just wrap the show up here let's just call today and you know and you know and you know controversy alleged controversies i guess we should we should be very clear about what we're about to get into because uh as lazy bed said so very very much to discuss and a lot of it has to do with the gambling side of the ufc there is some controversy that stems from ufc vegas 11 this past weekend and michael yes the chat is requesting that you pump up the volume for you, sir. Apparently, I sound lovely because I project. You know, I'm a theater kid, Mike. It comes from the diaphragm, but apparently your volume is a little low. Uh, that's not good. Are we,

you sound, you sound, you sound lower to me. You sound better now, but chat, keep us updated. All right. I think we're, I think we're okay now. I think you sound much better. Okay, we're, we boosted us up a little bit. So hopefully that is, that is what we got here. And if it's not, please please correct me, but I think we are louder. I think we are better. I get some greens. I'm seeing betters in the chat. So terrific.

A. OK. OK. So for those of you who have been living under a rock and for the millions and millions and millions of people who chose to do something better on their Saturday this past weekend, if you missed UFC Vegas 110, you miss some craziness. Because poor Steve Garcia gets the biggest win of his career in a main event. and he is like the sixth biggest story to come out of this card. Waldo Cortez Acosta has one of the craziest sequences in a heavyweight MMA fight.

A week after Tom Aspedal is poked in the eye by Cyril Gahn, Waldo Cortez-A Costa is poked in the eye. We thought he lost to anti-Gilesia. Then it was maybe going to be a no contest. And then Waldo comes back and gets the finish. That's like the third biggest story on this card because the biggest story coming out of This event happened in a featherweight bout between Isaac Delgarian and Yadir Del Valle. And Jed, I'm sure you were paying close attention to the betting lines, you being our gambling guy.

Isaac Delgarian, by the time we were doing the People's Pre-Fight show, was a minus 250 favorite on Fanduel. He was a pretty sizable favorite all week. And then we started seeing on social media that the line was starting to close a little bit. And depending on which site you go through, don't. Bulgarian, I think, closed as like a minus 160 or a minus 155, and there were round one props that were coming in big on the Del Valle side, which forced books to actually pull it all together. And then the fight plays out. We're wondering why. And Delgarion just gets dusted up by Yadir Del Valle.

Daniel Cormier is talking about how he's not really trying to defend the rear naked choke that ends the fight. and since then all sorts of speculation has has come out allegations against Isaac Delgarian some possible alleged fight fixing there's all sorts of craziness going on this reminds us of about three years ago around the same time when Derek Minner lost to Shaila nerd and becca the whole James Krauss situation and then almost three years to the day we're back doing this again because Isaac Delgarian loses the fight he is subsequently released released by the UFC. And since then, so much reporting has come out. So much of just all these different allegations have come to light. We've seen fighters say things and then delete the tweets or social media posts. We've seen so much happen. Even Dana White has come out and did what Dana White normally does when bad things happen.

He doesn't want to talk to the clickbait media. No, he wants to talk to TMZ because they wouldn't do clickbait stuff. And that's basically the UFC statement on everything. everything that has happened. I've reached out to pretty much everybody. Nobody is saying a thing about it. We have had reporting from the likes of Ariel Hawani. We've seen Harry Mack all over Twitter throwing a bunch of stuff up there. He's pretty much opened everybody's eyes to a lot of this stuff. Some have been confirmed. Some of the stuff he said has not. But Jed is a guy who hosts a gambling show for Mbefighting.com. As a guy who plays the poties, so to speak,

part of your job. You also write gambling columns and such. What is your reaction to all this? We're five days removed from UFC Vegas 110. This is a wild story. Is it not? I honest to God reaction is I wonder if this one sticks, right? Because like this is not the first time that something akin to this has happened.

Derek Minter was what last year, right? Like that whole situation? It was 22. I was 22. Good gracious. Time does not have meaning anymore. But like I remember that, you know, I remember us being on this show. I remember us talking on other shows, being like, what are the long ranging consequences of this, right?

You know, I don't, nothing was proved. Allegations were made, you know, there may still be an ongoing legal matter attached to that. I'm honestly not sure at this point. and James Krauss basically got run out of the sport. But like, I remember at the time, Mike, us being like, oh yeah,

this is going to happen. This is part and parcel of, of the sport in general, of sports writ large and certainly the history of combat sports has long been intertwined with gambling and fixed fights. Like that's why fixed fights is such a common phrase thing. That's why even today, you know,

I wrote about this. this week. Today, you know, when a bad boxing decision comes down or something questionable, everybody's like, yeah, boxing's fixed, boxing's rigged. So there's a lot of overlap with these sorts of allegations, this sort of thing. And the bill is going to come do at some point. I thought the Derek Minner's situation would be it because I've been on record multiple times. honestly, I think last month I was talking about it, maybe on submission radio. And then this happened to happen was like, fight fixing, you know, throwing, fraudulent wagering, et cetera, not just in combat sports, but in all sports,

happens. It's not a huge part of it for the most part, but it does happen. But it doesn't happen. Like, I would be shocked if, you know, Connor McGregor, through a fight because the money at the top is so different, right? Like it is it. Why would you jeopardize that for not as much money or the risks and inherent with it? But at the bottom makes a lot more sense.

And I've always thought that MMA in particular and reasonably this extends to boxing or pre-existed inboxing is more prone to it because if you are a league men player in the NBA, Do you know how much you what a league minimum player in the NBA makes? $700,000. That's over a million at this point in time. That's like that's the guaranteed contract, not for like a 10 day, but for like a full thing, you make a million dollars. I'm not, you know, if I'm that dude,

I'm not going to jeopardize making a million dollars a year to throw a thing. Like that just doesn't happen. But if I'm a low-end fighter, was probably on, you know, a 10 and 10, 15 and 15 contract. I can make a substantial amount of money to take a dive to do something like this. And you shouldn't do that. It's obviously like a bad thing to do. But I'm just being a realist about financial incentives and the way the world works.

Like people pursue crime largely as a result of they don't think they'll get caught and there's a financial incentive to do so. And it is much more likely for MMA where fighters don't make nearly what they do in other professional sports leagues to do this. And kind of to put a bow on this, Mike, you know, we just saw this is also a thing in other sports leagues where they make way more money. That whole thing is coming down. And I think because of that, I have more belief that something will happen, that this will be a more sustained and prolonged investigation with, you know, rooting it out as it were. But I really thought that would happen with Derek Minter. And I, that sort of just disappeared.

And so it's possible that, you know, in two months' time, we're not talking about this, which will be very strange to me. Yeah. Because the Krause thing was crazy because, yeah, they basically ran them out of the sport. Not only that, they basically said, if you plan to be associated with this guy in any way, you too will also be banned from the sport. And I know like Brandon Moreno was training there at the time and there were a lot of other guys. I think that was the absolute correct decision by the way.

Yeah, which which I agree. Minner was released and Jeff Molina got a three year suspension, I believe, as well, which I believe his suspension just ended. Derek Minter had got a 29 month suspension. There's a whole lot that that sort of came from this. And then it just sort of like you said went away. People were wondering like what's going on with James Krause. And, you know, we were trying to update people on the story for the next few months. and I was getting some different things that I was trying to confirm with multiple sources.

And then the story just disappeared. And Krause has been, you know, he's left MMA and he's doing the real estate thing now. And all this stuff continues to go on. And Dana White did his interview with TMZ and said the Krauss thing is still under investigation right now. Because just sort of looking at the landscape of this, Isaac Delgarian is a guy who originally was found by James Kraus. and fought for his promotion when they did the whole knelt boys thing so a lot and a lot of this is at least perceived to be allegedly tied to to this and and who knows i mean everything we say here today is wildly speculative yeah and even that we're trying to like avoid crossing over

that line with with all this but even dana white said this is what he said to tm z we called the fighter and his lawyer and said what's going on there's some weird betting action going on in your fight. Are you injured? Do you owe anybody money? Has anybody approached you? And the kid said, no, absolutely, absolutely not. I'm going to kill this guy. So we said, okay, the fight plays out. First round finished by rear naked choke. Literally the first thing we did was call the FBI. So we called the FBI. I've met with the FBI twice today as the interview came out. So Dana sort of took a stance. He confirmed some of the reporting. The 100 fights under investigation thing, Dana called quote unquote clickbait.

There's a whole bunch of this that I sort of want to break down, but just listening to Dana's reaction to this. And I think he kind of did what he, what he was supposed to do. He was trying to, hey, if you do this. Yeah, I thought he handled it well too. I mean he's handled it well. I've been critical about Dana for a lot of things. I think they are handling this appropriately.

Yeah. It was, we know, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're, we're separate. We're separating ourselves from this, but if you do this, you're going to be our worst enemy in the world, and you definitely don't want that. So outside of you just sort of agreeing with Dana taking the appropriate stance, so to speak, what did you think of the interview with TMZ? Dude, there's, I mean, there's so many facets to the story because, like, I didn't realize until a couple of days ago when I think you said it in a meeting or something about Dolgarian being connected to Kraus. and then again massively speculative this could be deeply untrue what I'm about to say but like my immediately my brain just started turning to okay there are reports as you mentioned that you know hundreds of fights are under investigation I'll point out under investigation is a very broad tent pole that could be like we watched the fight to see because it was this

guy fighting or whatever um and my reaction when like when you kind of connect to those dots and he was like, man, we haven't really heard from James Krause. And I don't know that James Krause did anything illegal. I want to be very, very clear about that. There's obviously a

belief that something shady if what happened with the Derek Manor situation, but I don't know what or what I genuinely don't remember that anything was proved. But, you know, in such situations, it wouldn't shock me for James Kraus to be facing at least some sort of

legal backlash if there was any credence to this. And also similarly, you know, per the reports, this investigation has been going on for some time, seemed like years were involved here. And so it is within the realm of possibility that, you know, James Krause got in the box and this opened up a can and that's what they've been investigating all this time. I am less likely to believe that this is a massive ongoing conspiracy because in general you probably shouldn't believe in conspiracies unless there's like a lot of proof to it as opposed to like I believe fights have been fixed

I want to be very clear. I believe fights have been fixed in the U.C. And I believe fights have been fixed more than the ones that we actively know about because there are certainly a few in the past that like we can definitively say we're fixed. I think that this sort of. sort of thing happens. I think it probably happens way less than random people might believe, but any amount of it happening is too much and certainly too much for the brand to sustain.

I think that is why the UFC and Dana White have been so forceful in this because you can't have the stain of this remotely tied to your organization. It would erode the credibility. The only sport in the world that in sport is a loose term here, that, you know, can be functionally tied to like fixed outcomes is pro wrestling every other sport this just can't be part of it because people will not sustain it

and you know the NBA had the what the hell is that refs name Mike oh Tim damn it yeah I can't think of it that whole thing like was huge but then eventually went away

because there is a broad confidence in the brand and that this was rooted out. Combat sports is a much darker history of this sort of thing, and it's a much harder stain to get off if it stays tied. So I think that's why they've been so paciferous about this. I think that's the correct stance to take. And if it does turn out that this is some sort of like genuine conspiracy,

everybody needs to be prosecuted. Everybody that involved needs to go to jail. and we have to make sure this doesn't become like just part of the narrative of the sport which Mike is then going to make my next statement interesting I don't think Dolgarian was in on it I mean it's a hot take it's a hot take okay I do not believe that Isaac Dolgarian I am not saying

that something shady didn't happen that is a pretty sizable amount of money invested in functionally prelimb fight I think it was like a 16 million handle on it or something like that is what I read. I don't know if that's true or not, so please don't quote me on it. Um, and clearly like significant line movement. And look, uh, the two basic premises I'm operating on here are, if sports books pull a bet down, there is a high likelihood that they at least believe there is the possibility that something

has occurred. And if sports books offer refunds and or credits, which many of them have done, there's a super high likelihood that something has happened just because sports books are in the business of taking your money, not giving it back. So all of that as preface, I have watched that fight a bunch of times now. Again, I am absolutely open to the idea that something shady happened because the betting movement all suggests it. But when I watch that fight, Isaac Dolgarian does not appear like a fighter who is throwing the fight. which means one of two things either you believe that Isaac Dolgarian not you specifically Mike the royal you here either you believe Isaac Dolgarian intentionally through this fight and is an exceptional actor or my belief which is that Isaac Dolgarian entered this fight heavily compromised and fought as such because if he was trying to take a dive he had a lot of opportunities to do so right um I came to this fight. after the fact. The controversy had bloomed by the time I went and watched it because I was not working

this weekend. It's at my grandfather's 90th birthday. Shout out. I came to this thinking this was going to be much more suspect than it looked. I think Isaac Delgarian did not look his best by any stretch of the imagination. But, I mean, DeValley was on his back for an extended period of time. Multiple times was like in position to choke him and Dolgarian did not tap. And if the guy's throwing the fight, he could just tap.

Like he could have, at any point, could it? He took some unnecessary shots if he was trying to throw the fight. I think, and also as part and parcel of this, if you think Dolgarian was throwing the fight, then you think DeValley sucks. Because to struggle to actually finish an opponent who is actively attempting to help you, he would just be trash if he couldn't have finished that fight sooner. I think Dolgarian was heavily compromised and not, you know,

you know, in the T.J. Dillishaw, Al J. Stirling sense of the, man, he never had a reasonable opportunity to fight and compete actively in this one. But I don't think he entered this fight and was like, I'm going to take a dive. Because I think if he was going to, he would have tapped out the first time DeValley got on his back and put a choke in, as opposed to doing some level of defense, even if, you know, Michael Keyes is like, that was dog shit. Okay, it still took him a while to get it. I just don't, I don't think he, I don't think he was throwing the fight in the strictest sense of the word. Yeah, I mean, or you, or if you think so, you think he's a really, like, you think this is a high level con because he is, he is approaching this and he's not a good

enough actor to make you not realize that he's totally heaving, but he is a good enough actor to defend to a point and to try and make it look good. Like, that's a real narrow window to hit, and I don't, I think you're giving, Isaac, don't, anybody who thinks it is giving him way more credit than he deserves. That just looked like a dude who wasn't physically fit to fight and gotten a fist fight. So the whole, like, not defending the choke and early in the fight, he gets like a double leg. And it's like locked in and it looks like he's got to easily get a takedown and doesn't.

Like, these are like two pivotal moments in the fight that people are sort of looking at, like the double leg is the one that it is the most suspect to me because like he he gets into position and can't finish it but that also is explicable to me as like a oh yeah I'm physically compromised and so I don't have the same explosive defense like I don't know I've watched it a lot I've I've talked about it with other people who I consider knowledgeable and it's just like yeah man he he could have tapped at any point in time. Like, there was a lot of opportunity. And I'm not saying he put up his best defense. If I'm throwing the fight, I'm just going to tap. Like, you don't not tap. If you are complicit in a scheme to throw a fight, the first time there's a choke on,

you just tap. You're like, oh, gosh, shit. I couldn't do it or whatever. And that's it. That's not what happened. I'm trying to find, where is it? You had ear to value statement. You go out there, you break the favorite fighter to the betting houses.

I impose a high level of grappling to all who doubted me and bet against me. I'm glad you lost your money. Those who believed in me and bet me despite not to be the favorite. I'm glad I made them win a lot of money. I don't even know if that was the actual one. He said a lot of stuff. He was like, the whole thing was like, I beat this dude. Stop saying it was a fight fix.

It was me just being better than him. I don't feel great about that. I do feel for him, though, because... Oh, he's just in a tough... Yeah, he's in a terrible position because he's not going to get credit for the win at all. And regardless of how he looked and what people believe his ceiling to be, and I think he is pretty good at a solid hand.

I don't know if he's going to be a guy to fight for a belt or anything like that, but he's very good. This just sours the win a little bit. So that was like one of my bigger takeaways from all of this is like, man, you're out of your valley. Is it a tough spot? He probably shouldn't say, anything, especially the whole, you know, I've just beat the shit out of this dude.

I'm the best. I'm just better than him because obviously that's not the best look. And whether the alleged fight fixing thing rings true or not, you definitely didn't get the best Isaac Delagherian that night. And that's not on him. You fight the dude that's in front of you and however the fight goes, it goes. Here's probably my biggest takeaway of all this. and while I think Dana did a good job

with the response and the UFC stance on it because they always go to TMZ for this like if you're looking for an official Dana White statement for anything really bad they go to TMZ and I'm sure they write out the questions to be asked verbatim essentially and then Dana will essentially give his statement the whole we called the fighter and his lawyer

and said there's some weird betting action going on in your fight? Are you injured? Do you know anybody money? Has anybody approached you? And the kid said, no, absolutely not. I'm going to kill this guy. And you have this U.S. integrity, IC 360 company, who by the way has not said a friggin word about this or the hand gate situation from the Rio card, because I've reached out multiple times to them. They're literally not responding or saying anything. Why in God's name, would you even risk putting this fight on the card? Like if you're, if you're, this is a flagged fight. from the agency that you pay to monitor your betting activity.

If this one is flagged as being weird, why even risk it? Why even allow this fight to happen? Because, you know, it's better to be safe than sorry, even if you just find out like Dulgarians injured or, you know, we'll just not have this fight happen. Like, why would they do this? I don't understand why they allowed this fight to go through

with all this happening. That is my one, that's like my biggest takeaway from everything Dana said was, well, this has been flagged. You called the fighter and his lawyer. Why not just pull it? It's not a meaningful fight on the card. Just yank it. No one's going to say, oh, shit, I can't watch. I'm dumping ESPN plus because Isaac Dolgarian Yadir Del Valley is not happening.

I don't know. I said so I don't love the precedent that sets because you have no basis, right? your basis is that the betting lines are questionable you have basis you just this just happened literally on the same day three years ago the same exact thing the same line movement the same first round props everything outside of we knew manner was injured when the fight was over yeah this that that is but like that i mean one that's the thing like you're just setting a precedent of like okay every time the line movement like every time someone someone's makes a big bet we're now getting shady about it it's just like i think this is much it is a much

better situation to like let it go through and prosecute to the full extent of the law after the fact as opposed to letting gambling markets dictate whether fights can or cannot proceed i think that is just not a space to be in frankly so i and like people dogged them for like the dana being like we called dougarian and we're like are you going to fight or whatever like what else do you expect them to do. Like, you can't, like, they're, they're pretty limited. Let's say, like, they're pretty limited in their ability to like pre-crime this, like it's minority report or whatever. It's just like, hey, we asked him, we believed him when he said he was going to fight this dude. Okay. Like, yeah. Otherwise, you're just going to pull the fight on the suspicion of it,

in which case, nothing untoward has happened. So then how do you proceed after that, right? Like, okay we're going to cancel this fight because we think it's suspect Dolgarine you'd be like well that's bullshit I didn't I was going to kill this dude I didn't do anything wrong give me another fight Are you just going to start cutting him because you think like I think that takes you down a place It's like thing whereas the other outcome is this which isn't great Nobody's excited about what's happened I think it's better to be like yeah we're going to cut you because this A thing has happened that's wildly suspicious as opposed to

we're going to cut you because a thing might happen. That's why. Like, I don't like that move. I don't know. I like, obviously we see some line movement and stuff, but not like this. So I don't know.

I'm curious how this is going to change anything. Because let's just say like, for some reason, we see this again on Saturday. Not that I think we will because it'd be really dumb. I mean, all this is really dumb anyways, that this turns out to be true.

So we're clear. also, I'm rewatching this right now. He continuously fights the hands. Like, I, I'm not saying this is the world's greatest choke. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that he didn't enter this fight in a way that he could, like, knew he was going to compete. I believe that this line movement was not, you know, something unforeseen.

I think somebody got word that Isaac Dolgarian, you know, not at his best or whatever. But like, I'm literally watching. Like he didn't defend. He punched him in the back of the head. We see that happen all the time. People do stupid shit constantly in fights. He does defend. He defends for a good little while.

And then he gets choked out. Like I... Well, basically, a lot of the defense is him trying to punch over his head, though. People do that literally all the time in this fight, like in this sport. That is like a common thing. It's like how many times we watch for it? Like, that dude's punching and he's in Mount. That's dumb.

Like, people do dumb shit. Like, I... I don't, again, my personal belief is it something rotten in Denmark has happened. I don't entirely believe that Isaac Dolgarian was an active participant in it. He may have been a passive one. I don't believe it was an active one. We heard from his head coach Mark Montoya of Factory Yaks, who went on Ariel's show and said, yeah, talk to him Sunday. He said, I don't believe Isaac will ever fight again.

and then he said essentially you're no longer part of our team. So yeah, Mark and Factory X is they're trying to separate themselves from this entire situation as well. So I- Everyone should get as far away from it as they possibly can. Yeah. So one of the things you brought up earlier, and then we'll take other questions.

I mean, we'll take more questions about this. Obviously, if you want to talk about this, but we can talk about other stuff as well, is that the Miner, James Krause thing happened and it was a big story for, I'll say like three to six months. We were talking about it all the time. We were looking into different things. We knew it was under

investigation. We knew the federal prosecutors were involved. We knew it was being looked into. There was a lot of stuff that I'd heard about it, but nothing that like was on the record or anything like that. And then it just died. It just went away and we didn't hear from it again. And now three years later, we're back into it. Is this going to be something? that is going to be on the radar past like the six month period. So let's just say like August of 2026, we're still talking about this. We have found out the fate of anybody involved. And we get more information about this than we did about the Derek Mitter, Shiland Nurt,

and Becca fight. I don't depend. And it will depend on what happens in the coming weeks and months because, you know, there are a lot of rumors flying. around. I certainly don't want to make accusations on this podcast or anywhere. But like if some of the stuff, there are specifically rumors flying around about investigations into one referee specifically, who I will not name because this is exclusively a rumor and I'm not going to propagate that without any basis for it. Right.

If, if, if, if that is even has a kernel of truth to it, right, then this becomes a much bigger thing. It is a fundamentally different story here, Mike. If, you know, let's say tomorrow for the sake of argument, Isaac Dolgan comes out and admits it, right? He's like, I did it. You know, the mob influenced me or whatever it is. I did it thing. And it's part of a string of incidents with me and X other people that are all in cahoots on this. That would be a huge scandal and a huge story. And that story would die down fairly quickly. because there's a definitive clear end to it. It's a set number of actors,

and there's no institutional, like, paradigm involved, which to some extent is, like, how the minor situation was handled, right? There was an absence of a definitive clear end to it, but it was like, okay, this is, we're going to put these people in a box, and that box is over here, and now we can stop thinking about it, because it's handled. Same sort of situation can handle here. If any of the other stuff that has been alleged or rumored, again, has any kernel of truth, if there is any connection to shady business via any referee or official, I mean, this thing is going mega in a bad way because that is a much bigger scandal.

It is a scandal if a fighter throws a fight or if a couple of fighters work together to throw fights. That is a scandal is a much, much different level of scandal. If an official, someone who is either a judge, a referee, somebody who has influential power over the outcomes of bouts outside of the two competitors gets implicated in this. Because holy shit, man, like every fighter who ever was refereed by the person implicated or judged by the person implicated would be like, well, I, got a raw deal. It would just it would the it would spiral in such a bad way. So if that happens, then we're going to be talking about this for years probably. Um, so it'll just depend, right? Like there's probably some smoke to some fires here. If they've, you know, if the FBI has been investigating for an extended period of time, but maybe there's not. It's hard to know exactly how

far reaching this will be because we don't have that much information frankly so we will hear from the Nevada Athletic Commission on November 19th that is two weeks from yesterday I don't think there's like anything on the docket just yet officially but something to keep an eye on I mean, we'll know more about it. I think the closer we get to it, you can go to the website. You can see who's on the docket and what's, what's it about. So I would be stunned if Isaac Dahlgarian's name is not on the docket. Yeah, that's very likely.

So maybe we'll find out more. That was kind of like how it all started with the Krause thing is. I think the UFC actually like officially the were the ones that are like Kraus and Miner suspended. Kraus is out of the organization. He's banned essentially for. from all of this. Stop getting coached by him.

Yeah. So, yeah. Well, I mean, this, this isn't going to be the last of this, I'm sure. Buddy, there are a couple of things that I'm just like, frankly fascinated in the next coming weeks. One, I, again, I'm not saying the ref's name because I'm not going to be involved in this. It's out there. And if I am a fighter and the referee who is, name has been thrown out. whether that it has any bearing of truth or not.

I don't want that. I don't want him to rough me, right? Like are fighters going to respond to this in a way that would frankly be rational, right? To be like, nope, don't want that to happen because I can't feel confident. You know, fighters try to reject referees all the time because they think inherent or implicit biases. If I'm a professional fighter or I'm a coach, I absolutely don't want a referee. or a judge and official who has any sort of potential stain attached to them to be involved in my shit. Not at all.

How's that going to play out? What does it look like? Because I won't say a bunch. Multiple fighters came out and said stuff. Just started tweeting, Mike, about like, I've been approached X, Y, and Z. And a lot of those fighters deleted that shit because you should never say a goddamn thing. shut your mouths. That is not official legal advice because I can't give you that anymore.

But it is always better to shut the F up. It's just always better to do that. And then all walk like that multiple fighters said something and then retracted it. The internet lives forever. That's out there. That's not a good look. What happens there? Why are we doing this?

The next couple of weeks are going to be really interesting and then we'll determine how months and years play out in the future. Yeah, the fighters were Vince Morales, Vanessa Demopoulos, and Lando Vanada, who all came out in and said they were approached by somebody. Some people even throw out dollar figures. I think Morales said 70K or something like that. And then, yeah, those those tweets were deleted or they were, it was a joke. Ha ha. I know Lando did the same thing, but. That's honestly a better move to at least say it was a joke, but like just shut the hell up.

somebody asked me is like does Isaac Dolgarian being quiet does that make him look guilty is like i don't know it makes him not a dumb ass don't say a goddamn thing like just shut the hell up because that let your attorney speak if you were at all connected to this and don't offer up if you're not connected stay unconnected don't throw your hat in here there's no need and that's essentially what dana said in the thing was like i i'm okay, you came forward and said stuff. So now you're going to have to talk to the FBI. So congratulations.

You did the thing. I will say, I don't know if it's a joke or not. I have no concept. I did at least think Landos was funny. Right. Like, you know, for whatever, if that was a joke,

it was a good joke. It was real. It was still funny. Right. Like I've been approached and I believe you can see that I didn't take the money based on my record is a pretty funny way to do it. But don't do it. You shut the hell up.

It's way better. Yeah. I mean, there are, obviously there are people, like, there are reports out there. Ariel said that he's gotten texts and a bunch of people who said they were approached. He even told a story of a fighter who was not involved in anything like this, but someone bet a good amount of money on them, went to the gym and was like, here's your cut. Congrats. Great job.

Thank you for winning me money. And then the fighter turned it down. So yeah, there's just so much of the story. And if they really like dig into this. And I'm sure like, look, at the end of the day, I'm sure Isaac, if something is going on, you know, this is all innocence. So proven guilty. I'm sure he doesn't want to go to, to friggin prison. So if there is somebody involved, you know, maybe we'll get more to light on this.

I don't know. I really don't know what's going to happen with all this. So hopefully this is a, this is a crackedout. someone asked earlier and then I'm going to have everybody like re-ask their questions because I don't want to scroll up 7,000 comments at this point. But does this affect how you look at betting on the sport now? Because you do the show on the watch parties. We bet you more so more serious than I. But do are you more hesitant, so to speak, about placing a wager on a UFC fight.

after these allegations? Oh, no, not at all. Again, I, to me, it's part of the calculus, right? I have always thought that this is a thing that Canon will happen in small doses. I do not think it is a major part of the sport. If it turns out that that's wrong, well, the whole sport's going to come for a reckoning, right? Like if it turns out that the hundreds of fights that they have reportedly investigated, they've all been fixed, then, well, we've got a scandal to talk about for generations. And I will probably be less happy betting on things.

And I'll tell you this, Mike, if it comes out that one of that one of my climbs got ruined, I'll be furious, absolutely furious. But, I mean, I've always approached sports gambling as it is a fun thing. to do. It's supposed to be fun, that there is, you know, an element of risk. And so that's sort of baked into the price. I do, though, think that the prevalence of sports betting now that it has been legalized in many, many states in this nation, they make that a more interesting question. Like, just from a personal standpoint, I am, I'm okay with it, right? Like, again, I already, I was doing this I don't know

the statute of limitations on some things that I may or may not admit online so I'm going to stop that statement thing before sports betting became broadly legal

if you were going to embark on it and you weren't in you know the state of Las Vegas or New Jersey or whatever by the state of Las Vegas I mean the state of

I caught myself the state of Nevada or you know wherever um you it was a seedier undertaking in the same way that poker used to be a seedier undertaking um and honestly maybe that makes a little bit better in some ways because this shouldn't be like everywhere probably but you know these are the times we live in and it is so prevalent now that i think that makes a huge difference to how people broadly will approach the sport and it's again part and parcel to why the UFC is reacting in such a strong stance to it and why I support them reacting in such a strong stance.

But personally, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I have probably wagered on fights that have, I mean, not even straight up. I think most people would draw a line, right, between what T.J. Dillishar did against Al J. Stirling that they would not call that a fixed fight per se. but that fight was functionally fixed in that he had no reasonable chance to compete like there no rational person would have thought he could have won that fight

and even Dillis Dillard himself was like I probably knew I wasn't going to win but this was the only title fight I was ever going to get again so I had to do it like I straight up I bet on T.J. Delishol on that fight I actively lost money as a result of a fight that was predetermined functionally So like, I think it's just part and parcel of getting involved in the game.

But many people will not agree with that. And it's not wrong for them to not agree with that. Because it has become so legalized, there is an expectation of, you know, things being above board. Yeah, I remember interviewing T.J. Dillow shot like three or four days before that fight. And he said, you know, there's something going on right now. I can't talk about it. I'll reveal it after the fight. But rest assured, essentially, that I,

I still think I'll win anyways. And then finding out all that, I was like, holy crap. Like, that was crazy. I also had a bet on T.J. Dilloshat in that fight. I'm truly one of the worst bets I've ever had. So let's continue with this. And like, it, it's hard to draw the line, right? Because, again, that's of not making an outright accusation.

My belief is that it is more likely that Dolgarian was severely injured and or compromised. And so the functional outcome is the same. He had no reasonable expectation to win and he lost and that sucks, right? I'm not diminishing that. At what point does it become functionally fraud versus like thing? Because the other part of this too, and I'm not necessarily saying this is what happens, but or what happened in this instance. We see fighters compete compromised all the time. Like, and you know, there's the adage that no fighter injures a fight 100%, right?

But those dials get turned based on things. And all the time we hear like, oh, yeah, I was super jacked up, but I didn't want to disappoint the boss or like I needed the paycheck. You know, I needed medical insurance. And I, this was the only way I could get it because that's how the UFC's medical policy works. It's, it is tied to fights. It's like the way things are structured creates more opportunity for things like that to happen, right? Where like, again, I don't know if this is true or not. I think it is absolutely plausible, maybe not the most likely outcome, but it is criminally plausible, right?

Like if I'm an attorney doing a defense of Isaac Dolgarian, I believe it is a plausible outcome that Dolgarian needed the paycheck and could not withdraw from this fight as a result. And so he entered the fight severely compromised or needed the insurance money or whatever and that people knew about that and that that, you know, is the explainer to the line shift. Maybe not the most likely outcome, right? Not a civil thing. But I think that that is absolutely in play as an explanation for what has happened here.

Joseph asks, well, anytime a fight is canceled, AK a la Adrianianas, Christian Caniones this week, Will we assume betting is the first reason why it is canceled? 100%. I straight up like when we lost two fights or whatever for this weekend, you know, then you look into it more and it's not. But like my first reaction was like, I wonder why. You know, like I think there's that and that's just human nature, right? Like a major thing has occurred.

People are going to tie one and two together. And it's not fair necessarily. but I think that certainly for a little while that will be a thing. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list?

Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. At just $39.99, how could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister, this gold watch for my partner, a wooden puzzle for my niece, leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard. At these prices, could I find something for everyone at winters?

Stop wondering, start gifting. Winners, find fabulous for less. Yeah, no Adrian on this card, I was told. So he is off. Jackson McVeigh will fight. I saw, we got the email, like, it's so funny how the UFC kind of operates right now because they send out these things of,

here's the full lineup, who's, here's who's doing the commentary and stuff like that. They still have Adrian Yanis, Christian Kenyonez. is on the emailer. They have Dante Johnson Jackson McVeigh on there as well. And I know for a fact that that fight is not happening, because as we reported yesterday, that was plan B.

Once Robert Valentin was withdrawn with an injured back, Dante Johnson, who beat Sidriky Dumas last week, was going to try to get back in there and fight twice at a week. And the commission did not clear him. So he is not fighting. So Zach Reese is standing. stepping in at a catchweight of 195. So that is the fight.

And then if you go to the to the UFC's event page for the card, Yadas is not on here at all. That whole fight is off, but they still have Jackson McVeigh fighting Robert Valentin. So who the hell knows? It's a weird thing. It's a weird card in general. And then all of this makes it all weird.

There's going to be a cloud hanging over it for sure. Will the UFC continue having betting experts on their broadcast? Yes. Minty bets you 100%. Yeah. That's sponsorship money. You got it. You got to do it.

I do think this is, I think this is interesting in that I doubt that this will substantially change anything. As far as the UFC goes, right? Like, they're still going to put odds up for on the graphics before fights would be my guess. I guess like maybe not. Or I guess that they're still going to do that. And they should realistically, right?

Like their contention is that they are handling this to the fullest extent that they're able to and that this is not a prevalent thing, right? And knock on wood, I hope that both of those statements are true. And so, okay, yeah. Also, we don't know for a fact that anything has happened. Just bears repeating at this point. I think MMA is both in a unique position of being more able to sustain something like this. so long as it stays right here, right? Like, as I mentioned previously,

if this elevates, if officials, judges, referees, et cetera, get involved, I think this becomes vastly more damaging to the sport and brand.

But because MMA kind of exists in that perpetual state of, it's MMA, do whatever. Like, ah, they say crazy stuff and are overly racist or whatever. Like,

and everybody just gives it a pass because it's, it still has a patine, of, you know, this countercultural weirdo thing. Like, the NBA is much less capable of handling this situation in this regard. We're like, they've got that going on. And the allegations are much, like, much bigger, right? Just in general.

But, like, I am far more interested. I don't even care about the NBA. I'm deeply interested in how that storyline breaks down for them because they are intertwined with gambling and they don't have the sort of like, it's MMA catchall to fall back on. So it gets real weird for them real fast. Yeah. And at least with the mafia's involved.

It's crazy over there. At least with the UFC, like this, this week's going to be terrible. Like they're going to have to deal with this for this week. But then like one Saturday night is over. They get started plugging the shit out of UFC 32 and avert the attention of all this darkness to, hey, we're going to Madison Square guard. We get these two big title fights.

It would not shock me. to the slightest to have the UFC announce the big fights for the Paramount card next week as well to try to averse of attention not saying that it's directly

they might not even need to I think next week is just gonna gobble up all the attention but I mean we're getting we're getting damn close to January like we're I mean they're gonna have to do that yeah as just sort of a thing

Iliate Seporia Patty or wherever he's fighting like I would maybe not like during the time in New York But I would say maybe like Monday, we're going to get Monday morning. We're getting ready for work. We're going to see that. The big boss is going on Instagram later on today.

And I think he's going to lay out a couple of those big fights. Could easily be the thing. I'm going to walk back something I just said, actually, because I thought about it for a minute. It's possible that ESPN asks them to dial back the gambling coverage this week. You think so? It's possible. I'm not, I still think it's less like more likely. the not that nothing changes.

But there was a deeply funny clip that made the rounds when the Terry Rozier stuff and the Chauncey Billups. I believe those are the two individuals involved in that happened where like ESPN, you know, was doing their car wash show or whatever it was, you know, the talking heads were going. And they have the ESPN bet Kairon at the bottom. And then they just pulled it because like, like, ah, this is probably the best look. Let's just pull it. So it wouldn't stun me if they're like, hey, you know,

Yanni the Greek or Minty Betts, take a week off. We can fill content time with other stuff and maybe not put it in the face just because it's easy to do that. But I don't think the UFC would choose to do that. I think it is possible, though again, maybe unlikely that ESPN says, let's just scratch it for this week. Wouldn't be the worst. Which should also be fine. Like it doesn't, you don't need gambling content.

It's not a necessity to, to be part and partial broadcast. Yeah. But I mean, if a company is paying you millions and millions of dollars, a lot of draft Kings to promote their service. Oh, yeah. So we're clear. Draft Kings isn't coming off the cage or whatever. Like the,

that are going to be off of the screen. I suspect that that's true as well. I don't know. Does UFC use? Do they use ESPN odds? Because on the website, they use ESPN odds. On the ESPN site? On the UFC website.

They use ESPN odds. Mm-hmm. I mean, everything is. I'm like 96% sure that that is true. I mean, Annick Draft King's commercials are literally everywhere. Yeah. I mean, ESPN is with draft Kings now as well. They don't know if you saw that.

Oh, I didn't see. They signed like a 10-year day-old. They got rid of their ESPN bet. That makes sense. Yeah, so now they're all the stupid thing with pen. So they ended it like eight years early or something. Well, funnily enough, and I wouldn't read into this, Mike, but I did just go to the UFC event page for this weekend,

and there are no odds listed anywhere. Yep, I did notice that as well. And they usually have at least most of the odds up. That could be explained by any number of things, certainly. They didn't have a right card up there, so. But even you get to the right card, though. That can be explained by a lot. That is not necessarily significant, but something to note.

The bigger underlying issue that's going to come to light is the outward favoritism towards particular managers and agencies. I mean, yeah. I mean, like, I know Jason House is kind of the name that comes up a lot. And again, so we're clear, these are all allegations, nothing. has been proven. There's been no, quote, unquote, crime committed to this point. The problem, the tough part is, if you're Jason, and by the way, I've reached out to Jason a couple of times, I haven't earned anything back, and not just even about this,

about other things in general. Yeah, shut the hell up. That's the right move. Yeah, hasn't said anything. Even just like trying to confirm fight news, nothing. And Jason and I, you know, are pretty cordial. So he's a tacky. Like the crowd Kraus is a house guy Minner is a house guy

Delgarian is as well and even like the fighters who have sort of responded in kind to all of this the Vince Barales is the Vanessa Domopoulos is it's it's not great like just just outside looking in it doesn't look good aesthetically but again we don't know anything so just I we have to make this perfectly clear when we talk about any of this stuff. So I understand. There's almost nothing. And that's,

this might just be the attorney in me. And like honest to God, straight up my like defense of Dolgarian. Like as I was like thinking it, it is what I believe. Like this is not just a take to take. I think it's true. I wouldn't bet my life on it.

But like I, that's where I stand. Like as I was doing, I was like, this might just be attorney me. Right. Like this where it's just like, we don't know shit. Nothing.

Like there is. every part of it, even back to Miner and Kraus, it's all circumstantial. And like, there's a lot of it, right? There's significant circumstantial evidence. There's, I haven't seen a bank statement that's like, here's where Isaac Dolgarian received $300,000 in a transfer via Venmo or whatever. And so, like, with, in the total absence of any hard facts,

which is frankly what we're existing in that we have one fact there's literally one piece of factual information which is the line moved it's it's hard to like be massively confident any outcome or any truth to this we shall see

moving on to something else dog is finding a spot to lead up if somebody shows me that Dolgarian has 30 bitcoins I'll be like, okay, let's talk. That's a lot of bitcoins, you know. And if he can't be like, I mined them when I was 18 in college or whatever, but everything is so speculative right now.

It makes it hard to like be confident in anything. Yep. Shifting gears here. Joseph S, what do you think of John Jones taking shots at Tommy Aspinall? Does John now think he can beat Tommy? Let me pull up the exact quote. Here's what John Jones said to the No Scripts podcast. Quote, Tom's a great athlete, but I do feel like he's a one-trick pony.

I believe that his wrestling and jiu-jitsu is incredibly overrated. He has a beautiful one-two. I got to learn a lot about his patterns in his last fight. That's really about it. That's the one thing that he's setting up real nice. He couldn't touch Cyril Gahn at all. That's the way I felt. I felt like Gahn was just getting warmed up.

God's hands were down. He's shaking his shoulders, bouncing around. He was touching him. He was so uncomfortable. Your reaction to John Jones's comments about Tom Aspel. I didn't even think we'd get anything from John on this regard, but there you have it. Oh, I mean, John's always just going to talk. In answer to the direct question, I always thought that John thought he could beat him.

I believe and will continue to believe that John recognized. that there's a threat that he could lose and that the relative juice is not worth the risk, right? Like the risk reward ratio is simply not there for him. And I have maintained from day one that he's correct. I believe he is correct. I wanted those two dudes to fight because I want to see the fight. If I was in John's camp, I would tell him to stop talking, you know, but that's just a personal preference. I don't, I do not believe he may. mismanaged any of this, but for the, like,

reports that he asked for a number and tried to out-negotiate himself and the UFC met it. That's a bad look, right? But, um, I, he never needed to fight Tom. In 10 years,

nobody is going to be like, John was a paper heavyweight champion, which he absolutely is. His heavyweight title is less significant than George St. Pierre's middleweight title, which is, pretty close to fraudulent. It's not. It's technically not,

but it's pretty papery. John's heavyweight belt is much more papery. But no one's going to give a shit in 10 years. No one's going to care because in 10 years, there will be a whole new group of fans and they'll look back and be like, yeah, John Jones is the greatest fighter of all time. And so he, in that sense,

well, I think a win, I do and have always believed a win would be very meaningful for him over Tom Asperol because it would firmly establish him as maybe not the best. heavyweight in the world because he didn't beat Francis, but like a reasonable heavyweight champion and add something meaningful, he didn't need it. And I think he has, he has been correct. And now he just gets to say shit, right? Like he gets to say this stuff because he was, he's never going to fight him. He was never going to fight him. And the moment Tom Aspinall, again, Tom

didn't lose super important to recognize that. The moment Tom looked anything other than an absolute world beater, he can just tweet. because he can or or give interviews to I don't know who this was too sorry and this is thing but to me he can say all he wants he chose not to fight him and I think that's a correct decision right like I don't think he should have but I I put zero credence in what John John says about Tom Aspinall because he could have fought him and he didn't and he still shouldn't fight Tom by the way oh he shouldn't and he's never going to and that's a fight go fight

by Pereira. That's that's the biggest fight. We've been saying this from day one. No one, we never even had an issue with John calling for Pereira. It was this whole, even John said, like, and that's why I always said, I blame the UFC as much, if not more than John for this entire situation, because John had said in public settings multiple times, I will fight Alex without a belt, like take the bell for me. I'll just go fight Alex. And our whole stance was like, cool but like if you're going to be the heavyweight champion you have to fight this guy like you just have to like that's why we have an interim championship to begin with those we can eventually unify the belts so the whole steep a fight was ridiculous that's why like even rebooking

that was a disaster they should have just every part of that fight was a yeah it was ridiculous it was ridiculous so this this could have all been avoided in a in a whole different way and who knows we'll see what happens with uh with tommy a when they run this back at cyril gone Again, and that's, we just don't need to relitigate this, but like, that's the other thing, too. It's like, okay, sure, he's a one, like, I'm not saying he's not a one trick pony. It might be. Now one trick has been awesome. It's been a super good trick, right?

Like, it's worked against everybody. He didn't lose this fight. It's not like he was losing a fight for 50s, it was four, but they fought for four minutes. And it was closer than people are giving it credit for, by the way. Sure. I agree. But, like, he was losing the round. but they fought for four minutes.

I don't know if you guys know this. You'll never believe this, Mike, because I don't know. I one time watched John Jones lose the first two rounds of a fight to a guy named Alexander Gustafson. I watched him lose three rounds to Dominic Reyes, and then he won the fight. Sometimes you don't have your A game, and then you overcome. That could have happened. Maybe it didn't happen. I the idea that we can take this as a loss and learn anything from it is so it's frustrating and like I get that john was always going to do this because john has an agenda uh again i just we don't have to listen to what john jones says about tom aspiral um especially because like the okay the this isn't even necessarily john's take though it's kind of implied in his messaging again i think john could absolutely be tom aspinall i i think that fight is that

genuinely a coin toss. The idea that what Cyril Gahn did shows that John would run through Tom is one of the sillier takes. Because I don't know if you guys know this, John Jones and Cyril Gond are not remotely similar fighters. So like, maybe he could run through him. I don't think that if he runs through him, it looks anything like Cyril Gons, four minutes of, you know, success against Tom. It's just a very, very strange thing. I wish we could stop talking about these two dudes who are never going to fight.

I wish John Jones would retire, like he said, he was going to do, and be out of the sport. I'm very done with him. He is, he's taken up too much of our time in life. DJ Shareda, we'll say Randy Brown still is one of the more fun KOs of the year. It's true. Lazy, I can't remember Randy's last fight. I think I had podcast right.

It was the Nicholas Dolby fight at UFC Kansas City. That fight freaking rocked. Yeah. It was. I mean, Nicholas Dauby and Randy Browner. I mean, I don't remember if Randy Brown beat Brian battle or not. I mean, I know he lost, but I don't remember if I thought he won that fight. I thought he won. I thought he was.

It feels like maybe, but I don't know. It was a weird one. But yeah, the Dauby fight rocked. It was the fight of the night. You could have easily double bodiced Randy because that knocko was sick. Oh, I do recall. Yeah. Look, I like the main event this week.

it's a bit of a strange one. Just because, like, I think Bonfim is ranked. Brainy Brown is not, but, like, you know, he's in the mix-ish. I don't know what the winner is fighting for. Like, somebody asked me, is like, if Gabriel Bonfim wins, can he jump to the top, like up near the top of the Walter? I was like, no, dude, he's not remotely near the mix of Walterweight. Walterweight's got too many guys.

That's not really fair to him in some senses. I thought he lost his last fight. Yeah, it's not really... He got the spuddy, but I thought he lost. But like, it's like a win over Randy Brown is that probably just holding position. Maybe he can get like... I don't even know. Daniel Rodriguez, you know?

Like, I don't know who he can get. So it's a weird one in that it feels oddly low stakes for a main event. But the fight itself is kind of fun. Like, I think it's a fun one. Michael, I want to see Tom and Derek Lewis. Where were you freaking... four months ago when I was screaming that at top of all the rooftops. After he beat Towson to share, I was like, just throw that dude in there with Tom Asp's

way more fun. And none of you, most of you were just like, oh, it's a stupid take. He's ranked this. Who cares? Do you think we'd be living in this world right now where the heavyweight championship is in flux and Tom Aspital is like one of the most, like, he's in such a straits position? Guess what? If you fought Derek Lewis, that fight would have had finality.

it would have been over and done with in the first three minutes we would have had a winner we would have one way or the other and see just listen to me sometimes doesn't have to be the most there is no meritocracy in the heavyweight division right now okay just do the fun thing it was important to get there hasn't been meritocracy in the heavyweight division in a long time since francis fought cyril gone that was the last time that we actually had like i mean yeah that's that's it Yeah. What's your take on RDR saying he just effed up? So RDR spoke to our good friends over at submission radio.

Dennis did a great job. Here's what RDR had to say in regards to the loss to Brennan Allen. Most importantly, I effed that up. I hefted up big time. In training camp, looking back, I was just pushing myself way too far. I was feeling slow, very rundown, very tired after every session, and during every session. to be honest, even in the Robert Whitaker camp,

I wasn't even feeling like myself in the last couple of weeks, but I was very stubborn as a Dutchman is supposed to be, and I pushed myself, kept pushing myself, kept going harder and harder and harder, and that's what showed in the fight. One thing I did not see Jedd, one thing I did not see Jed from this interview, and hopefully the clip comes up and you get credit for it, I did not see RDR respond to a possible flight with Dominic Reyes to 205 pounds, which should absolutely happen.

No, but he did talk about going up to light heavyweight. Oh, he did. Okay, good. He did. So I pulled it up. AK wrote it up for us this morning. And so I'll give you the quotes right now. One of the things I've done is a Dexas scan to figure out my lean masses.

I'm a little heavy for an average middleweight. So it's a consideration to go to light heavy weight. And I think I will in the future. but then again, I've been able to make it five times this year in 11 months, four times I did extremely well after the weight cut. I was close to being 100%. So I do think there's still a future for me at middleweight, although it may not be where I finish my career.

I don't like that. He's not wrong on principle, right? Like everything he said is accurate. And I think that he could continue to cut and have success. I don't think he could continue to cut and fight at the pace. he has been fighting at, which we've already, you know, broken down a lot. And I think that his road to a title shot at middleweight and his matchups are just way more difficult than a light heavy weight.

But like, on principle, he's not wrong. And yeah, dude, he, he's saying the thing that I immediately thought and that people were like, you're just an RDR stand, which is true. That's just a fact. So I can't, you know, buck the allegations there. It was just like, yeah, man, that looked to me like a dude who'd cut weight five times in 11 months and cut a stuff load of weight trying to be better about my language. You know, and like at some point in the interview, he was like, dude, I still get tired like right now. Like, yeah, because you killed your body five times in the span of 12 months.

It's like, think about it in those terms. And I think that that is always just a better way to view it. because like every fighter who is cutting significant amount of weight, they're killing themselves. They're actively harming their body and to do so that often and that frequently, that has ramifications. I absolutely think Brin and Alon could do the same thing to him under perfect circumstances, not taking this one away from Brennan Allen,

but I don't think that was the best RDR as a direct result of this. And I wish he was a little more, to your point, more on my line of thinking like definitively whereas he's ride in the middle a little more than I like but you know I get it fighters are are who they are I just I just wish you'd be like look man the realistic point of where I'm at my career is that if I

continue to fight a middleweight I'm gonna have to win a shitload of fights before I go fight for a bell and that's gonna take several years because I can't win five fight i can't win five fights in a in a year at middleweight that's just not reasonable yeah and he's gonna have to win that cut that many times and i got to have to win five fights to get back in this position so that would take me two years whereas i can go to lay heavyweight and win two fights and fight for a title yep 100 percent and i could fight those two fights in the span of three months because the weight cut is just substantially less for him yep uh a few more Similarly, this is not at all related.

So we can cut this. I love you. I love you so much. You mean more to me than maybe any member of my like direct family or my personal friend group. You stop this nonsense, Yuri Phrashka. I don't give up two toots about you going the middleweight. Stop it. There's no need for this at all.

stay at light heavyweight bad yeary very bad yeary I gotta tell you I am stunned to hear you say this bad yeary I don't need him in middle weight he's enormous he can fight ddp is the fight you've always wanted

we're so close now he'll be dead he can't he can't make that like he can't make it in a way that's conducive one he would be so much worse of middleweight he is a chaos agent who succeeds largely because his chin is super good and people don't realize it because he got knocked out twice.

His chin's incredible. Like his chin just won't be nearly as good if he cuts to 185 because he's going to have to remove an appendage to make it. Stop it. You are at worst, at absolute worst, the third best dude in the world at 205. And the guy who's beating you twice, he ain't there for long. weight it out my brother we're not doing this middleweight stuff it's nonsense

yeah I mean he's fighting he's fighting for the title if it was an next fight yeah just wait don't and all this like once I get the belt I'll go no you should be trying to go to heavyweight

which sucks fight Tom Aspinall don't fight Hamzaat because you'll be dead before you get into the cage a couple more that we'll get out of here just the winner of Sean Brady versus Michael Morales get a title shot.

That's going down next week. Great card. Great event. We won't have a lot of negative things to say about UFC 322. That's for sure. Probably not, which is a bummer. I think there's one world in which it happens. I don't think the world is that the winner fights the winner of JDM Islam.

I don't think that's remotely possible, frankly. I'm not going to rule that out. I mean, we are 100% going to have to. We will not know the answer to this question until the end of the month. Okay? Because we need to see how this title flight plays out. If it is on Machachev wins, zero chance of winner. This gets title shot.

Zero. I see, I disagree. All right. I'm glad we're on differing sides of this because I feel if this is on Makachief wins. And look, he could retire as champion. I know that's what you're saying. I'll say that you and I are on different sides of this.

I know you have your thoughts. He's going to go fight Kamar. He's got to go fight Kamar Usman. He's going to call. He will legitimately, if he does not retire, he will get on the microphone and he will call O'Caroumoole and it'll hurt my friggin soul. Maybe. He's got to do it. Why?

I think there's no other fight he would stick around for. I think he'd stick around for Shafcott. Maybe. But I don't think he's sticking around. That's been my contention forever. I think it would be dumb to fight again. Not like the stupidest thing. If he wins, it's huge.

But, like, dude, you've accomplished the thing. Just walk away. I, if Islam wins, I think it is more likely than not that he retires. I think, you know, he won't retire in the cage necessarily. Or then Khab will be like, buddy, let me tell you, I walked away. And now Ronda Rousey's out here saying that people are doing things to me because I walked way. It's a good position to be in. Walk away. Walk away sooner.

It's a better thing. Like, you've done everything you can. Let's just hang it up and let's move on to the, you know, you and me coached together, blah, blah, blah, whatever. I think it's more likely than not that if Islam wins, he retires. And if he retires, then Sean Brady can be or Michael Marles can be in, you know, a vacant title fight against whoever it is, whether it be Kamar Usman or, I mean, I don't think the lea the Leon Edwards call his protest winner is not really in this mix right now, but like, whether it's Sean Brady Shavkat or Ian Machado Gary, we're like if he beats Blal or whatever, like, yeah.

I think that can then happen. But outside of that, I don't, I don't, I don't, Jack Della ain't fighting the winner of this fight. I don't think under any circumstances is, uh, Islam ain't fighting the winner of this fight under any circumstances, I think, which makes it weird, but sort of, I mean, just how things are wealth away right now. Yeah, I, I, I would love to know what's happening with Shafcott. No one really seems to know. I feel like, I feel like, I hope he shows up next weekend. That if I'm in Chavcott's corner, I'd be like, dude, let's go to New York. Just be Kage side. Just do it. Maybe nothing happens, but there's no harm in being there. We haven't seen them.

Yeah. You know, and it's not like he was. What if has it, is there a backup fighter for next week? I'd say what if what if this is the colby covington out of nowhere he just weighs in as the backup fighter like oh redible oh my god shot he's back play the music he's back that would be frigging fantastic but unfortunately i think if he does i mean if he shows up i think that's like the best thing he could do jillis be like oh yeah what there he is but there's like no update on him whatsoever and unfortunately the way this year has gone for this division uh I think he's going to have to fight again. So tough scenes when he did the UFC a solid and fought Gary.

But yeah, I mean, if he and Gary goes out there and dusts up a lot, like he's going to, he's going to be in position A no matter what happens with Brady Morales, I think. If Gary wins like a close non-thrilling splity and Brady and or Brady or Morales like just runs over the other, it's a good place to be as long as it doesn't win the belt. You got to, if you're Brady and Morales. You need to enter this fight thinking that it's time to put on a show because it's the best bet you got. I don't think it's a great bet, honestly. But I know it's a weird take. I don't think Schofcott's dead in this. I think that he's been gone for a while and that's bad.

And a lot of things have happened. I don't think he's dead here. Walter Wade is, it's a cluster. And I don't, it is hard to predict how it's going to shake out. Yeah. Usen Schofkai would be like terrific matchmaking. Unless Chavkat weighs in. Dude, I hope so. I haven't thought of this until just this, like that moment.

If Chavkat weighs in his back of fire, that would be incredible. It would be rock so hard. Ace Boogie. Thank you. Why not give Mowzard the shot now, given Volk is his most difficult matchup? And if Mozart loses the Upsi, so he could say we did the thing, now back of the line. Why not? I've been saying this for a frigging year.

I think it's going to happen. This is not based on any. internal thing. In fact, I've heard some rumors that this is not going to happen. I'm going to manifest it. I'm just going to keep saying it. Sometimes you got to do the deserved

title fight that people don't want. We let Leon Edwards fight for a title and no one wanted that. Shit, Ty and Woodley sat out for 18 months and got to fight for a title and no one really wanted that either, you know? Belal, nobody really wanted Belal to fight for a title and it happened.

You got to do it sometimes. You got to eat your vegetables. We desperately need the fiber that comes with this fight. Like we need some leafy greens in our diet. And I am still holding out hope that they will do that. I hope so. This is the fight Volk wants to his credit. This is the one he's calling for.

He wants the undefeated guy. And I got to tell you, the public sentiment is on the Movesar. side right now after Diego Lopez beat John Silva. Because even the mere mention of Diego Lopez getting a title shot right now is just pissing off everybody. Like, we just did this. And I think it would be ridiculous if he gets a title shot after beating John Silva. As fun as that fight was and as great as that performance was, you just fought him and lost.

So win one more. Let's give it. There's got to be at least a year separation before we run the shit back. But give it to Mozart, man. Like, this is, this is perfect. This is perfect. Because either way, if Volk beats Mobsar,

then you don't have to give him the shot again. If Mobsar wins, then you throw him in there at Diego Lopez. That's a big fight. That's a rematch of a very close fight. Like, it's a win-win for the UFC. So I don't understand. There's no other fight that makes sense to me.

I needed to happen because I need to know how good Alexander Volkanowski is. Like I know in general how good he is historically, certainly. but I don't know if he's the best featherweight on earth. I know that he's kind of not because Ilya could probably make one four five again, but he's the, you know, he didn't beat the top guy.

And so I don't know how much credence to put into his win over Diego Lopez. In the same way that I didn't know how much credence to put into Jose Aldo's second win over Frankie Edgar when he reclaimed the belt because Connor left it. Like I don't know where he stands and I would know a lot more. Then the thing that concerns me the most, Mike. We're not really talking about it. I don't know if this is true or not.

Absolutely speculative. This might be Volcanovsky's last fight. It's entirely in the realm of possibility. That Alexander Volcanovsky is like, hey, it's Sydney. What else do I have to accomplish in this sport? I'm never going to fight for a lightweight belt again. I make billions of dollars doing all the other things in Australia. The cooking show.

Yeah. How much longer do I want? want to keep doing this. If I keep going, I already went long enough to lose. Because if you, if you compete long enough, you will lose. That is just the, that is the math of the sport. I've already done that. Now, do I Anderson Silva this? And I just keep coming back and keep coming back. It would have made sense in a lot of ways to just leave on the Lopez win. But, you know, I want to do a swan song in Sydney. Here it is. And if that's the case, and they give him Diego Lopez or Jaia Rodriguez.

Just like a total On the one hand, sure, let a legend go out on top. I can't be that mad about it. On the other, God, that's a fraudulent fight and makes no sense and is is totally baseless for what's happening and would frustrate me to no end. But I can't understand me. Like, we don't really want to burn his last fight on MovSar. Like, I do get that as well. It's just weird.

And again, that might not even be. true maybe volk wants to keep fighting i don't know but it would make a lot of sense if i'm vol to retire in sydney in february that would make all the sense in the universe to me yeah max versus steve garcia would be fire i know what you're trying to do rs 40 i know what you're trying to do you're trying to get me all ramped up because so we're clear would be it would be fire it would never happen but it would have if i will never in a billion years happen it was the worst callout in a long time. I'm not going to say it's the worst call it ever. And as I set out on to the next one, I have I have landed on the side of this was a worst call out than

Joaquin Buckley calling out Connor McGregor. This is worse because he meant it from the depths of his soul and walking Buckley did it to piss people off. So terrible. I mean, just the worst. But I will say this. Steve Garcia has done a great job this week via the media being very realistic about where his career is because I believe he's on Hawani show. I think he talked to Annick in Florida about this as well about like where I think Ariel asked him like will he fight for the belt in 2026 and he basically said no I have a lot of work to do. I'm not like the big star. I don't feel like I'm going to I'm going to get rushed up the rankings and he's right. He's absolutely right. So good on him for that.

We'll take two more that we'll get out of here. Let me just say this, Mike, because I was thinking about it. I won't like it. I won't. I won't like anything that's not mobs are because that's the fight I would like to see. I'll understand a lot of things. The one I would understand the most that I would be the, I won't be okay with it, but that I can begrudgingly say, yeah, makes sense.

If they do Volcaljo in Sydney, that makes sense to me. I can see that. I don't think they'll do it, but I don't think they will. And I, I'd be more okay with that than Diego. Yeah, I can, I can squint my eyes and be like, I get it. I'll just, it'll just, it'll just be, I get it. It's not the best, but I, I understand. I won't understand Yair.

I won't understand Diego Lopez. I would understand Lerone Murphy, but somehow he just fell out of this conversation. And I don't think that's necessarily bad. I don't think he deserves it. I don't either. Very loaded word. But like, I'm fine with him getting it. If Volk was going to fight in December, I was fine with that fight.

Totally fine. Because that was the whole thing was like, well, I'll see you in December, Lorone. And I was like, all right, well, if we're going to flip him around in December, cool. Like, we get a Volk fight in December. All right, I'm in. But now that time has passed and things have happened and Muzar might be in blood. Other spinning elbows have happened and we forget. Yeah.

That's true. I wanted to be Mobsar. I would accept Laurel Murphy. I would begrudgingly accept Al Jermaine Sterling. I don't think it would be right, but I would get it. And the other, anything else is just like, get the F out of here. That's Garbo. What about Marab?

That'd be fine. I didn't think about that. But yeah, that would be fine. I think Marab, to the extent that anyone deserves these things, I think Marab should he beat Peoria, you know. My stance has always been five title defenses and you can move up and get another one. I think that that is like a, should be an unwritten rule of double champ status. And, you know, but four with an incredible year, he'll be fighter of the year this year,

assuming he beats Mara, but I couldn't be upset with that. two more are low ticket sales to blame for the paul tank cancellation no unlikely it's it has nothing to do with it it might have made it like slightly easier but i think they were going to do this regardless here's here's what i've learned about jake paul fights the ticket sales never go well never ever ever go well up in like till the week of the fight we look at those ticket master maps and they all look identical. Nate Diaz fight, Tyrone Woodley rematch,

all of them. It looked like that. And let me tell you, I have been in the building for both, I was in the building for both of those fights. There was not an empty seat in the house. And people were there, like,

right for the opening prelim, especially the Diaz fight. The Diaz fight, I don't know if I've ever been in an arena that had more energy for a fight. And I've been in some, I've been in there for some good ones. I've been at MSG.

for events. I was there for Mazadol Diaz with the hype that fight had. That place is electric. So they're like walk up traffic in like week of. And maybe it's like they lower ticket prices. It doesn't matter. They don't give a shit about any of that stuff. Yeah.

I think they do paper. But yes. I've been to two Jake Paul. One was during COVID where they did not allow people. Triller experience. Yeah. There were there were, there were 2000 fans that won a contest and then media. And despite this fact, media was still, it was insane.

We weren't remotely near anything. It was wild. And then one in Tampa and both times, you know, the one didn't count. But the other time, a bunch of people were there. Yeah. Well, we'll end with Ace Boogie. Would free them up to do, Yair, Diego, Sterling, Murphy, and Silva versus Garcia slash Allen. God, I wish Garcia called out John Silva.

That would have been a terrific callout. Would have, but he still might get it. So, you know, it all comes out in the wash. He's going to get Patricia Pitbull, which is fine. That arguably is better for him because he will definitely win and it's a big name. Yeah. So. Yeah.

I agree. The tank thing, the Jake tank thing, there's just, you, you, there's just no justification for. for putting that fight on. No. And no matter what you feel like Jake feels like deep down, their entire business model is building women's boxing. And to put this fight on after, especially these new allegations would be really bad.

And trust me, this is a guy who was like packed and ready to fly to Miami next week. I was about to spend a week in freaking Miami to go cover that fight. And then I had to go cancel all the travel. So like, the fight is just dumb. I mean, it's not like I was there to be like, oh, I can't wait to watch this incredible boxing match. It was just the spectacle of it all. And they do crazy shit when it comes to spectacles.

Yeah. It's all been very weird. I didn't hate the fight as much as many people did. I was actually kind of interested when you set aside the numerous, terrible things that are alleged about Tank Davis. this is obviously a thing that could have happened. Like you sort of assume that risk if you're getting into business with Tank Davis that yeah, this could happen.

But like, I don't know. I was poking the snake with a stick and it bit me. I can't believe it. You know, like I walked under this flock of seagulls and poop got on my head. How could I have foreseen this coming? He's like, yeah, this is actually a pretty believable thing. I, you know, I think

I don't love that it like, and I don't really care, but like the moment this happened, the should be like, it's off. They really drugged their feet. I don't know why. I think probably it was they just were looking for a replacement

that they knew the fight was going to be off. That's, that's what I would venture to guess. I believe that that's what happened, but they could have just been like, yeah, we're not going to do this because of this. Now we're looking for a replacement.

Honestly, my biggest takeaway from this whole thing, Mike, tell me if you agree. I kind of think Francis is stupid because I get that like, I understand his contention that it is disrespectful to be called out, right? By Jake Paul. And I don't for one moment believe that Jake Paul would box Francis Inganu. I just don't believe that. I will believe that happens the moment they touch gloves in.

the ring together. But like you were given a gift here, right? I, oh, my name's in the hat in the mix to float yourself, to, to big up yourself, to do something.

And I just don't feel like to at least, and he got some headlines, right? Like he certainly did. I just feel like you could have been like, yeah, man. That's not like, instead of being like,

it's disrespectful, I have no interest in fighting Jake Paul. which was his line, been like, yeah, I'll take the money to kill this dude. But like, do you want to see a sanctioned murder? Because that's what will happen. That's bad. I think that I think he should have done that. I think he misplayed this.

Yeah. I was surprised he, he reacted that way. I really was. Now I don't know who's going to, like, because they're going to do this. They're going to book another event. There's going to like before the end of the year. It's going to be Nate in December. And that would be a travesty.

If they were going to be great. If Nate was going to be the guy. If Nate was going to step in next week and fight him, would have been 100% for it. Like short notice, he steps in. Like, this is a big deal. Like, honestly, no one cared about the tired woodley rematch.

It was a close fight, but I forget who he was supposed to fight before. I'm trying to remember. I'll look it up. I don't remember either. I'm trying to remember. Was that Tommy? That was Tommy the first.

That was Tommy Fury. Yeah. You're right. You're absolutely right. I was Tommy. Yeah. It was the Tommy Fury fight. Tommy couldn't

forgot because they did end up fighting Yeah Tommy couldn't get a visa or whatever Yeah so tired Willey comes back in And you know It became like that fight week like built it up And any other time you went back to Woodley Like no one would care

But the fact that he stepped in so quickly We're like all right cool like bet It made sense totally made sense If Nathan stepped in for next week It would make sense And by all accounts he He said he was down even Jake said that commenting on some social media posts like shut out to date like he wanted to step in and and fill the spot i don't know what happened i don't know if it was like a a Netflix decision or or whatnot but Nate would have been a much more interesting build i'll tell you that so but now like if you're going to delay it and then go back to Nate yeah i don't think it has the same i mean it'd be great for Nate like good for him get a bag and get chance to get that one back and but yeah maybe they'd

do like a Darren Till or something like there are there are options i don't think you have to you have to go i think you have to go like really big here like if you're going to cancel this whole event i think you got to go try to get joshua in there or something i don't know i don't you don't fight joshua i just look i understand that there are some arguments for it i don't the the the jake paul train works because he hasn't been laid out if i say that josh was getting laid out in a bad way. If you fights Francis and Gondon, he's probably going to get laid out in a bad way.

And so, like, that's your, you are slaughtering the prized cow, right? You ain't getting no more milk out of that cow. That cow is flank sticks. And so,

thing, but like, yeah, the whole thing was curious. And I just didn't like Francis's response to it. Because, like, I don't know,

I don't know what Francis is hoping for waiting. Like, this to me was the gift that he would have begged. for right like i don't think it would have happened yeah but like maybe you can get you know a bronze bomber fight like that might be possible but i like you could you you you i let me tell you you go for jake paul again don't think would have happened still you definitely can get you know a bronze bomber fight you do any number of things with that so i think if i were his corner out have been like here's what you do you just laugh it off and like that kid will never fight you

me like it would never fight me because either he doesn't fight you and you get to be like yeah he would never fight me or he fights you and you knock his ass out or like that that's the win win then instead you set up a situation where Jake Paul can start tweeting and be like bro we offered you the fight and you turned it down burr burr and like you just look it's not as good a look I think he handled it wrong someone saying it was has seen rockman junior who was replaced that is not true Tommy Fury was the opponent for that fight. And then Tommy Fury was the new opponent. They were going to rebook Tommy Fury again for August of 2022.

And then, yeah, Fury was out due to quote unquote medical issues. The August one was a travel ban issue. So they brought in Hasim Rockman Jr. To fight on that card. And then that was off. And then that led us to Anderson Silva a couple months after that. So that's what went down with this whole. crazy Jake Paul situation.

And with that said, Jed, any closing thoughts? No. I like this weekend's card better than the last weekend's card, though I bet we won't talk about it for nearly as long because my guess is we're not going to have scandal attached. Knock on wood. And then 322 cracks.

So that's dope. I saw Begonia last night. Highly recommend that movie is awesome. That's all I got. All right. Well, we'll have a preview show tomorrow. Stay tuned. Probably like three-ish Eastern time.

But we'll let you know. For Jed, I am Mike Keck back next week before UFC 322. And I'm excited. Good night, everybody. Love y'all. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.