MMA Fighting - BTL | Dana White vs. Francis Ngannou & Aljamain Sterling, Jones vs. Fury | Fan Q&A Edition

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

This week on Between the Links, the MMA Fighting crew is turning the programming over to you, the live viewers, as they banter about your topics in regards to the biggest stories in combat sports. The panel will take your questions all show long about anything you want to talk about in the world of #MMA — including Dana White's response to Francis Ngannou signing with the PFL, the UFC President's comments about Aljamain Sterling and the current bantamweight champion's responses ahead of his UFC 292 title defense against Sean O'Malley in Boston, White saying he'd welcome a Jon Jones vs. Tyson Fury fight inside the octagon, Israel Adesanya's potential opponent for UFC 293 in Sydney, Mackenzie Dern's big win this past weekend and her eye-opening interview on The MMA Hour, and more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they make up the panel on this week's program.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian

in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. And now, your host, my...

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand-new edition. of Between the Links, a special Viewer's Choice edition of the program. Happy to have you here on this Thursday. As Esther said, I am Mike Heck, and joining me on this adventure to answer all of your questions, Mr. No Gray Area, Mr. Hot Take, co-hosts, No Betz Bard,

and I believe we have a new damn they were good in the oven cooking right now. Is that true, Jedmishu? Welcome back, my friend. Thanks for having me, Mike. Love to be here. And it is true. It's dropping tomorrow. My favorite episode yet. I'm not saying it's our best episode, but we covered my favorite fighter of all time, BJ Penn. So we had a lot of fun. And Mike,

before we get started, I just wanted to say I had a mini panic attack about 10 minutes ago because I pulled up the, you usually send me the topics and I can look over and get a little prepared. And I was reading through the topics and it took me a solid three minutes to realize that I was was looking at last week's topics and you didn't send topics at all. So happy to be here excited about the fan questions. Yes. And look, I know when there's off UFC weeks, we have to do a little bit more to fill roles and fill spots and do podcasts and produce a lot of different things that we normally wouldn't

do. So I figured let's make life a little bit easier for us, make it better for the viewers. And we let them control the programming. It's a beautiful thing. We love the viewers. We love letting them control things. things. So that's what the show is all about.

We're just going to answer your questions the entire time. They can be about Dana White versus Francis and Ghanu, Dana White versus the PFL, Dana White versus Al Jemaine Sterling, Dana White just saying things. It can be about whatever you want. There's fights we are hearing about. There are fights that fighters are saying might happen on certain dates that I just don't believe. There's a middleweight champion who's supposed to headline a card in on.

Australia but has no realistic opponent right now, there's a lot we can talk about. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. He's got a great opponent. I know. I'm with you on this. I'm totally with you on this. Get rid of the dumb fight. Get rid of the fight. It's real stupid. We laid this out on heck of a morning. I shuffled up the deck, I think, perfectly. But if that question comes up, we can talk about it here. So we have Casey on the ones and twos. He will bring up the questions. So what do we have, Case? What are the people want to talk about today? Okay, let's bring our first question up.

All right, big D too quick. Say Francis stayed and did his thing right. Everything went right. Do you see Dana giving Francis the Connor treatment and letting him do a boxing fight? I quibble with did his thing right because I'm not sure what that means. Because I think Francis did everything right here.

And if you don't agree, then we just fundamentally see the world differently. Like he got literally everything he wanted. So I don't know what more you could want than for him to get this same deal with the UFC, which obviously would never happen. So assuming that's what that means, just wanted to push back on that. But let's address the rest of the question, right? No is the short answer. basically because Dana has sort of maybe not explicitly,

but pretty close to explicitly said that no, he wasn't going to do it. That has been one of my favorite things of the past two weeks, Mike. Let's be honest. Dana White is a master of spin. And as a man who himself likes to deliver a take or two, you got game, respect game. And Dana coming out here and being like, look, when when the occasion calls for it, I make things happen. I got, I got, I got the audacity of this.

I got Floyd McGrathor paid. The UFC had literally no role in the promotion of the Floyd Mayweather, Connor McGregor fight, but for allowing Connor to, to fight and take a percentage of that. But that was put on with McGregor promotions and Mayweather promotions. Dana didn't have anything to do with. it and he is coming out here this week saying i got floyd mayweather paid it is an incredible bit of spin work and you just you got to take your hat off to the band game respect game unbelievable just nonsense flooding from his mouth and i love every second of it yeah yeah i don't

think i don't think you would ever do the boxing thing i wonder if it was brought up i know marco martin talked to to ariel yesterday i know he wasn't privy to like every single conversation and every single dinner that transpired between Francis and Dana. But I think Dana was just more concerned that Francis is kind of the position he's in right now, that there just wasn't that kind of a fight for him, even though Tyson's theory kind of dangled the carrot in front of him. And we all thought, ooh, maybe. And then no, I'm just going to come back and fight real boxers for real stakes and real championships.

And not Ussick, not the fight everybody. wants to see and apparently we're still not going to see that fight from what Tyson Fury has been saying lately but now he's turning his attention to John Jones and we don't do gimmick fights here and now he's saying Tyson give me a call we'll do you versus John Jones in the UFC so yeah it's been quite the week I mean of course he's going to do that like why wouldn't Dana let Tyson Fury get rolled up by John Jones of course look the thing everyone I think everyone who's just forgotten about the Mayweather McGregor fight is Dana hated that fight for like a full year he was like no it's stupid we're never going to do it and it was just an

overwhelming amount of support for it and the financials ultimately made sense that is just not the case with francis and ghanu and like i said i think frances ingano has done everything right he may well get himself a big payday in a boxing match like that is still very much possible but it is that is going to require work and effort on his part and he's going to have to find a dance partner and frankly none of them are that willing to do it right now based on everything we're hearing it i think it ultimately will happen it's not going to be Tyson fury probably but it is going to require leg work to get that to occur and that is not something dana white is not interested in trying like i don't know if any of the promotion the last five years has

has seeped into all but he's not here to make an effort like they're there to just print money which they're very, very good at doing. So this was never going to happen for Francis inside the confines of the UFC, particularly because, and frankly, Dana's right on this point, right? Like, say Francis does resign, Francis wants to do the boxing fight. I think that the financials can ultimately be good,

but they'll have to work at it. Why would you do that when the John Jones fight is, frankly, probably going to do as good of numbers as a Deonté Wilder matchup, maybe slightly less because of the novelty factor, but that's still big business. That's entirely in-house. That's easier to make.

So maybe after that, then maybe there's more of a push for Inganu to get a boxing fight if he does beat John Jones. But this was just never going to happen for Francis under the UFC banner. Or you could have just done the Zupa boxing thing and just had Francis box in your own company. You could have just done that. We all know Zufo Boxing is a lie.

Well, you do. But still, if you wanted to do a one-off and just have a boxing event, like Mosvidal and company have laid out sort of the blueprint on how to do this. Like the UFC is not opposed to, you know, taking ideas and making them their own. You have a way to do it. You just got to get it approved. And apparently in the Nevada Athletic Commission will approve anything. So you have your own building to host it.

You could do that anywhere. So I guess my question to you at this point right now, because we know the UFC isn't going to co-promote any kind of. a Francis fight at this point. Does Francis have to box any of these big names? It just seems like he wants to box and there are plenty of avenues he can take in order to do that. And there's plenty of influencers and social media stars that would get him a pretty sizable payday in order to box. Does it have to be one of those guys? Do you think when Francis does eventually box it's going to be Fury or a Wilder or Joshua? Do you think he just boxes,

somebody else just to scratch that itch it's feeling a lot more like it's going to be somebody else that though i don't love like i get it and if if truly this is just francis wanting to to box because that was kind of where he originally thought his career was going to go like that was his dream and now he has the ability to sort of shortcut the line in some ways here fury doesn't seem likely which is nonsense uh it would make sense for me if fury was like Like, yeah, because I'm going to fight Ussick. But Fury appears to not want the Uc smoke in one way or another. And instead he's going to do some other fights that are frankly, like in Ghana,

who just would make more sense than some of the other names have been thrown out for Fury at this point. Like, you're not going to lose. And it's at least something that will get people talking as opposed to you fighting, I don't know, Joe Joyce or like some shit like that, whoever the hell it is that they're talking about. My question, sort of to answer your question with a question, Mike, is, so like there's obviously the four, right? Like there's the fury. There's the, I guess the three, because Ucuk, who nobody really cares about Francis fighting Ucic. That's not thrown out.

But it's wilder, it's Joshua, it's Fury. Like those are the big three thrown out as possible in Ghanu names. Seems unlikely. Maybe we can get wild there. While there seemed to be the one that they were the closest with in the talks. but if he can't, who else is he going to, like, who's the lowest dude on the totem pole? Because that's where this becomes a problem for me. Because I think we all know what this is.

This is a money grab. Like, he's not knocking out Anthony Joshua. Like, he's just going to get dummied. And that's okay. Like credit to him, get the money, make an effort, try. Maybe a miracle happens. But the juice doesn't seem worth the squeeze for him to do it against like Dillion White, who is also probably going to.

going to dummy him. Andy Ruiz. Andy Ruiz would dummy him and Andy's fat Andy. And so it wouldn't be like a great, at least Andy Ruiz like had the moment, you know, so he is a bigger name broadly speaking. But like Luis Ortiz, like they're just no. He can, those are fights he probably can get.

But those don't seem to be worth it to me. So I'm really interested to see how, where he makes his decision. Because ultimately it's going to come down to Francis, whether he decides I'm going to keep holding out until, you know, somebody jumps at the bit and says, let's go for it. Or maybe I'll step down the ladder a couple of wrongs and risk a huge payday and get beat by the world's number 12 heavyweight. Because that's what will happen if he fights them. Or go box like Haseem Rahman Jr. and probably beat him. I mean, you can do that.

That feels fundamentally different than what Francis is really about, but maybe it's not. He just wants to, I mean, if he just wants to box, then go box. I know you want the big, huge fights, but I just don't know if they're there right now. I think he might need to show his worth in the boxing world. Go box Tommy Fury. Go box. Go just do it. Fight Haseem Rockman Jr., knock them out and get a highlight.

And maybe people will see the buzz that could just. generate, oh, I guess people really do care about France's boxing. And then maybe the dollar signs will float into the heads of some of the bigger names and maybe they'll come forward. I think he's going to have to chip away at this idea before he just gets it. You said the thing that I think is the most important part is that he needs to generate buzz and he's not doing that. And he hasn't been for a year. And I don't blame him. Like I said, I think he played this right. I think he did the right things. He hasn't fought for over a year. He's about to run out of eligibility in all rankings, which is just into 18 months.

And his last fight was not some highlight real awesome thing. It was a five-round wrestling heavy performance. Like, yes, he generated headlines by signing with the PFL, not taking that away from him. But the further away you get from being relevant and right now, this sport moves very, very quickly, man. Like, that is why I thought it was weird for them to say he's fighting in 2024 for the PFL. if they don't have a boxing fight lined up, if this is still just hopes and wishes that something's going to happen,

like, it truly doesn't matter, dude. Nobody in the PFL is going to fucking beat you. Just go knock the head off random heavy weight. Like, it simply doesn't matter. Come to Atlanta, beat the brakes off some dude, put a highlight reel in the bank, and then remind people, you are the baddest man on the planet.

And there's a reason that there were talks like this in the first place. If he wants to do that by taking a boxing match, maybe that works. I just think that invites a lot more risk than him fighting Auntie Delagia, like in a month and a half or whatever. Yeah. No, I'm with you.

And another thing we kind of have to keep in mind as well, he's still recovering from that knee. Like, that knee was destroyed. So, yeah, you got surgery. I know there are some crazy incredible lightweight, and welter weights who can come back in nine, ten months from injuries like this. But Francis is a big man and it's got to take him a little bit longer to come back. I talked to Eric Nixick like a few weeks back before he even signed this PFL deal.

And he was like, Francis is still like recovering from the knee. He's still trying to get back to 100%. So that's going to take time. I'm trying to look at who the worst PFL heavyweight is. Oh, gosh. That is this is a race to the. the bottom very difficult to pick one um also all of their like marginally good ones failed drug tests and can't compete anymore anyway uh look man i don't know maurice green like one leg is

is he number one right now more is green like one or two right now i don't know he might be but i've seen him fighting he's not very good and or he's green is john jones i mean i get partner that's i guess he oh that's i didn't even think of that angle i guess he did get a he got a tk o finish in the first pfl the season so he probably is highly ranked in their current season uh dude just pick any of these dudes like any of them who cares you're gonna castro yeah exactly we're sympathetic another john jones training partner you're gonna castle you just got to get this pick a warm body and just have him annihilate some dude and it doesn't have to be for anything you can promote it like a squash match you can the same

way i'm not a big pro wrestling guy but like uh i have gotten my ticot has somehow gotten filled with like videos of old pro wrestling like historical lookbacks and that shit's super interesting to me because i didn't like my parents didn't let me watch during the attitude era but you can get to go and see like all these people talk about stuff and that's kind of fun and in those there's always like, hey, we're going to introduce this dude by beating the hell out of some guy you've never heard of. Just do that. Just be like, hey, this isn't in the season. This isn't for the title. We got Francis and here's a man and watch what he does to this warm body. And then that's it. And it would be dope. Yeah, that's how you got people over back in the 90s. You just put them on

Saturday morning TV. They'd squash a dude in two minutes. Someone with like two first names. Superstars. They would have superstars and wrestling challenge and it would just be a bunch of squash matches and like one decent match. Yeah. Well, I mean, in the 90s, there were not...

Did you see the wrestling characters in the 1990s in the WWF? There was a plumber. There was a hockey player. There was a clown. I'm sorry, there was a plumber. T.L. Hopper? T.L. Hopper.

He's named Super Mario. They had Duke the dumpster Josie. A garbage man. They had everybody. Okay. Yeah, it was very character. You're learning so much. Sorry, I want to jump a quick.

Quick question for Jed. Jed, you mentioned that the longer Francis stays out of the cage, you know, he'll lose relevance. Why doesn't the same thing apply to him that applied to, say, John Jones, GSP, and to a lesser extent, Henry Sehudo, where they were gone for so long. But when they came back, it wasn't like people. there was a need for them to come back? Like, why don't, why won't Francis get that same kind of treatment? I'm just, I'm not, I don't.

No, no. It's a fair question. To clarify, I think he will get that treatment when he comes back to MMA. I don't think that extends to boxing because it's already a tenuous question anyway of the interest in watching Francis and Ganu box. And the value prop just becomes less for boxers is the problem. Like, I think when he, his first event at PFL is going to be. be a big event and it does not matter who he's fighting that that is going to be a thing that we are

up in arms for that the fan base is interested to tune in maybe not like massive massive because he is a questionable start of that degree but it's going to matter when we come back doing the thing we know he can do but the value prop for professional boxers is hey this dude's the baddest man on the planet and he just knocked alster over him's head off or whatever or steep am iitch i guess based on the time on his head off. This is a big bag of money and a very winnable boxing match for me and there's a hook here. It's two years since he knocked out Stepe. Like that is just they have other things and this becomes less for him crossing over into a new sport. It still will matter and should it happen, it will still be promoted in big. But the I think the opportunity for him to

get the big fights just goes away day after day. Like, it just gets a little bit less, the more time passes between him and being relevant, like truly relevant for performance as opposed to other ancillary things. Cool, cool. Hot start to the show. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice?

Yes, we deliver those. Goaltenders, no. chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move.

Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-Training Treadplus at OnePeloton.ca. Jeff Drappam, if you could fully swap the sports for LeBron, BoJackson, Herschel Walker, Usain Bolt, to MMA from the onset of their athletic journey, who would have been the goat? Of this group or of MMA? Of MMA, it will still probably be John Jones.

Look, God love Usain Bolt. I think he's the greatest Olympian of all time. Michael Phelps can suck it. Like, who gives a shit? I will die on this corner. Your third, like, swimming is dumb. It is not a dumb sport, but the fact that we have, like, ooh, the point of racing is to get from A to B, not to get from A to B doing it in a different way.

I'm the fastest backstroke. Sweet, if I'm swimming away from danger, I'm not fucking backstroking. So who gives a shit? It's useless. So it's very dumb for Michael Phelps have 30 gold medals or whatever in that. Also, not everybody swims. A lot of the world can't swim and doesn't swim. Literally everybody runs other than those who are physically incapable of.

and those people are probably not competing in the Olympics in general. Or they're competing in a different set of Olympics. And that's not to denigrate those people. I'm just saying of the 7 billion people in the world, 99% of them can run. Usain Bolt is the greatest Olympian of all time. That doesn't translate at all to mix martial arts as far as I'm concerned. There's just not the same skill sets at all.

Like maybe he wouldn't suck at it, but there's no basis of that because the way that those, sports are competed are completely different. We've seen Hershey Walker compete in MMA. We know he's very good or was like very good for being 50 and having never done it. Like very quality competitor. Bo Jackson, maybe the greatest athlete have ever seen him a whole life on the short list of it probably could have done well.

LeBron very similar. Like those three are competing in sports where physicality is much more of a factor. And so you can to some extent extrapolate it over. The problem is, as always the problem with this. sort of thinking is it's just a whole different world man like getting punched in the face just ain't for everybody and you can be incredibly athletic and but it when you are under fire that it's just a different game and so it's very hard to speculate that any of them would have been like unassailably great until you see them get punched in the face and be like okay they're they're

built for this because at some level it really is in your makeup about whether you want to fist-fight people and where you are with that. Yeah. Of these four, I would probably say, if we, if we get 18-year-old Bo Jackson at a high school in like 2012, that would be something. If he was just like, nah, I'm not going to play baseball or football. I'm just going to focus the next three years of my life to learn this MMA thing. I'd probably go with Beau.

I mean, he's probably the most likely of this group of four to succeed. Yeah. pre-hip injuries and everything. Also, I just, what would Bo Jackson have been bad at in life? He would have been great at everything. There's nothing he would. I can't think of a single thing that if you get let

Bo Jackson start doing at the age of eight, Kew wouldn't have excelled that. Oh, 100%. Dude, it's a great 30 for 30. If you don't know much about Bo Jackson, highly recommend you watch that 30 for 30. Does MMA fighting ever beef with other MMA media outlets? I don't think so.

Probably not. I don't have any... It's in-house. Yeah. I largely don't have any issues with anybody else in MMA media. So, they're, you know, people I like more than others, but it's fine. I also am relatively confident that plenty of people in MMA media, if they even know who I am, wouldn't like me.

So it's okay. I mean, I barely like you and you're on the show every week. And I'm just kidding. I love you, Jed. I actually got to beat you in person and play some golf with you. No, I mean, like, there's probably like, there's competitive rivalries, one would say, like, everyone would say like us and I'm a junkie or probably like, I don't know. They would say like those are the two, but I go to events and cover them and I hang out with them when I'm with them and we have a good time.

Like Nolan King is one of my favorite people in the space. No Nolan for a long time. We're both Boston guys, both like the same things, both love. The sport doesn't matter what else we work at. We just can get together and hang out and have a good time. So that's how I feel about most people in the space. So I don't think, no. I guess arguably we do as a website have beef with big John McCarthy and Josh Thompson.

And they have a podcast. So they're in the media. I've certainly said unkind things about them and stand by every word. So I've made it a goal to not do that as much. Josh has actually grown on me a little bit more. John and I are good. He was very helpful for that, like, really in-depth piece I did on the Fury FC thing where the dude got choked unconscious and then got his arm broken while being unconscious

and the referee decided not stop the fight. I talked to John for like almost an hour. It was a great conversation. And, you know, some of we recorded. and some of who just shot the breeze without recording it and just good stuff. Yeah, I would say probably those Josh in particular, but I think Josh is kind of growing on me a little bit. He may not feel the same way about me, but life is short and he said a dumb thing.

I called him out on it and that's it. Yeah, I just don't have the energy to hate people anymore. When I was younger, a thousand percent. But I just, like I think that that's everybody's jerk. any right you're just a little piss aunt when you're younger and then you grow up and i guess it's maturity or maybe you just you get tired but it's a lot of effort to carry up beef when instead just like whatever it's so much easier it's not care yeah i feel like josh is better on the broadcast now i think amanda gear kind of like brings like a much looser josh thompson out on the broadcast so i've

actually enjoyed him on the broadcast more and john i think john and the dany sabateltoll thing with the Countless Swear's was one of the greatest things I've ever seen. So, no, I have no beef with nobody. He did a really good job. John did a very good job at that. I was shocked that he rose to that moment that well, but man, did he? Spectacular. One of the all-time great post-fight interviews.

All right. Joseph Boza, how crazy is it that the winner of Whitaker versus DDP will have about six weeks to turn around to face Izzy is Dana trying to protect Izzy? Jed, we've been waiting for this one since the beginning of the show. Go ahead and tell the people in Joseph Boza what you believe is going to happen or if it doesn't what absolutely should be happening like right now. This fight's not going to happen, boys and girls,

because it's the stupidest fight of all time. I said it immediately. I got a lot of pushback internally from some people, frankly, on this thing. And slowly everyone sort of. come around because Izzy wants to fight in Australia. Izzy is going to fight in Australia and

there is simply not a person for him to fight. And Joey, you said it great. The winner of this fight isn't going to make a six week turnaround. If this fight were to happen, I would strongly favor Robert Whitaker to win this fight. He's

not going to win it in a way that he can compete in six weeks again after because for the many flaws DDP has in his game, That dude is going to throw all of the business at you for 10 minutes or as long as his cardio can hold up. And maybe with his nose job, his cardio can hold up forever. Who can say? But it is, like, he's not going to come out of this fight unscathed.

You're not going to get the winner of this to turn around in six weeks. And so then if Izzy really does want to fight in Australia, he seems like he does, the UFC is very clearly incentivized to have him fight there. What do we do? Like who else can fight him, Mike? Who else from the rankings? Is Sean Strickland doing something these days? Is he booked? Yes, he is booked.

Who's he booked? Who's he fighting? He's headlining July 1st against Abis Maga Madoff. Okay, well, I guess maybe your best hope is that he can win that fight. But if he, like, there's no, there's no answer. There's nobody who can fight Izzy in Australia, except for to just end this stupid fight that doesn't matter and doesn't need to happen and just pull it and say,

hey, DDP, your number is called. We're going to Australia. You're going to fight Izzy there. Bob's your uncle. Robert, you can just show up. You know what? Instead of you fighting Robert Whitaker to get a title fight, you get the winner of DDP versus Izzy.

And you will come, you will sit in the stands, for Australia and you will be there and it will be the two of you guys, you know, you're facing off with the winner of this and that's how we're going to do it because that's what the logic dictate should happen in this fucking situation. Or I think this is stupider because I don't have any interest in a third fight between Whitaker and Izzy. You could also just pull him and do Whitaker Izzy 3 in Australia and DDP fights the winner. Either way it goes, this fight is dumb and need not occur. So I agree with you 100%.

This is just pull DDP and have him fight at Adasanya. Pull Sean Strickland from that Abis Magabedah fight and have him fight Robert Whitaker on that card because you know Sean Strickland's going to drum up some fun during fight week. So he will put a lot of attention on that fight just like he did for the Alex Pereira fight. So you go ahead and do that. Then you pull Paul Costa from that Ikram-Alescarra fight that is not going to happen because

Paul Costa is not going to take that fight. And you just pull him and put him against Hamzat Shamaif in October, because I do not believe this Usman thing for a second until I see both of those guys in a cage after both of those men make 170 pounds. Just do the Costa Shemaya fight in Abu Dhabi. And then you could do Alaskara versus Magamadoff. You can give Magamadoff to somebody else. You could do Fluffy Hernandez versus Alaskaroff because that fight frigging rules.

And you can do a lot of different things. So do that. Just shuffle the deck. And guess what? All these fights are happening in July. All of them are happening in July. And it doesn't mess up the timeline at all. So just pull DDP, put them in there, let him fight Izzy.

It'll be tremendous. And then just shuffle up the deck the rest of the way. Give us Costa versus Shemayev at 185. That fight's going to be the big seller for that pay-per-view outside of the hardcores. Just do that. But let me throw something else at you, Jed. A lot of people are wondering if, they are just going to leave things as they are and then give Israel Adasania a light heavyweight title shot.

Do you have any interest in Israel Adasania challenging Jamal Hill on that card for the light heavyweight title? No. That would be very dumb. I hope that that is not the case. I'm not in general. Like one, that's not a thing that you do to a dude who just got sparked. And I know he came back and he won the rematch. with Pereira. I'm not taking that away as a sensational performance. But it's sort of re- you don't just

get to pick right back where you left off. Like your barometer gets reset. You just lost. So like if he comes out and loses, I would be of the opinion that let's say they do the DDP fight and DDP wins. I don't think he gets an automatic rematch because then we're just giving him rematches every time now. Like that's that's not realistic. He should have to win one more because he lost to Pereira not that long ago. I don't think you should get a light heavyweight fight. Also, I know that Jamal Hill is technically a UFC light heavyweight champion. No, he's not. He never lost the belt.

It was a fabrication and nonsense. So like, if he's going to fight for the belt, I want him to fight for the real belt and not this pretty paper belt that Jamal is holding on to at the moment. So I hate that idea entirely. Just make him fight one of these two dudes in Australia. This fight isn't needed. $2.90 is a sick card. You don't need this to juice the card up.

It's doing a okay without it. Like, we just don't need to be here. And I don't, it seems so obvious and so logical. And I don't understand why we're just three miles down this road and trudging onto stupidity forever. So I had a buddy text me this morning with this idea because he had a, he listened a heck of a morning. Like, what if they did this? And this could make kind of everybody happy in the process. What if they did Leon Edwards versus Bilal Muhammad on that Abu Dhabi card?

And they did Colby fighting Israel out of Sanya since there's a story there. Like people are talking about it. Any chance that could happen. Both guys get title shots. It's a big fight for Colby, big fight for Izzy with the name value. There's a chance that happens. I hope it doesn't. Because again, I don't ask for a lot.

I mostly just ask for the people who deserve to fight for titles to get to fight for titles. And sometimes deserve doesn't mean you have a win in the top five. It just means the champions beating all the other dudes in front of you and you're next in line because that's how this fucking works. DDPs that dude. Think he should get the title fight. Colby shouldn't be getting any title fight in any division. but I can't say that that won't happen because I could see that happening. I would put it at very low likelihood, but I could see that occurring.

So hopefully they just shuffle up the deck. Do Whitaker Strickland, DDP goes and fights for the belt, Whitaker gets the winner if he beats Strickland. Boom, there you go. But if the deck is not shuffled, they don't shuffle at all. What are the chances we get at Asanaa versus the winner of Strickland? versus that boost. Low, but not impossible.

Could we get out of Sanya versus that boost? Well, no. Okay. If it's a boost, then that's a zero. Like, that's just never going to happen. But if it's a zero that he's going to main event against Strickland last week. But he is. So I'm not.

Well, that should never be a zero because main events ain't what they used to be. Or case. But if it's Strickland, I could see it because Strickland would be okay with a quick turnaround in general. And that's at least a. sellable fight. Like he was on the doorstep and previously he'll talk some true like that that'll I could

buy if Strickland beats a boost that that's how that goes down. Yeah. You have the press conference footage from last international fight week. That's probably the most likely scenario based on what's going on right now. I still think they should pull DDP, but they seem intent on doing this dumb fight. Dana was asked about this specific thing and he said, He was going to announce something soon. So maybe we'll get a live in studio thing sometime this week

where you can announce this news. I really want to know what they're going to do. If you just get rid of Whitaker DDP, then 290 still has two title fights. Jalen Turner, Dan Hooker, which is an all-time banger, Bo Nickel doing his thing. Sean Brady, Jack Della Madelena, like you got five good fights plus Robbie Lawler's forced retirement. Like, you just don't need Robert Whitaker on this card. You're fine.

Honestly, it would make more sense to do this fucking fight at Australia. Like, just as the co-made event of the Australia fight card. Dad, Tyrone thinks you look badass with your hair down. I don't appreciate you, Tyrone. You know, no comment on my hair being down. I put it down today. Your hair's always down. And it's always up.

I shaved it today. Literally shaved it a couple hours ago. What else we got? the sport would suck with Dana or without Dana I'm gonna assume that that means without but maybe probably

I don't agree with that like now it's not true yeah now it's not 100% like the history of the sport would suck without him there's no doubt about it Dana deserves a lot of credit for putting the UFC in the position there and no doubt about it with not only just becoming the face of the promotion and getting himself

over in such a way, the partnerships he's created, the friendships he's created, the business relationships he's created. He's a big part of the success of this company. I mean, he's a gigantic part of the success of this company. And because of that, he's not needed anymore. Like, it's nice to have him and do interviews and stuff like that. Like when you show up shows up on the Pat McAfee show, like, yeah, that's cool. But he has built this juggernaut. that it runs, it almost like runs itself at this point. Like rinse, repeat. You got it.

And just have somebody else promote. John Anick would do a tremendous job as a promoter. You would promote. He'd put champions over and say nice things about everybody. And Dana could still be there and do the occasional scrum or whatever. But to say that like the sport, like the UFC would just die if Dana White wasn't the face of the company is just not true. It's just not true.

And that's not a. and it is kind of a detriment to him because just look at this week and how he's treated as champion and Al Jermaine Sterling. Just look at some of the things he said about Al Jermaine Sterling since this past Saturday. It's just crazy. No promoter on the planet

would talk like that about one of their champions. But at the same token, it is of credit to him because he has built this to the position that it is in right now that when he wasn't even at international fight week last week last year. He wasn't even there.

He wasn't there at all. He was on vacation. Remember that? They didn't need them. And the whole international flight week, everything ran off without a hitch. And that is credits to data because he has built this to run like the machine that it is running. And they have great people working for them as well.

But to say that like the UFC at this point as they're printing money lives and dies with Dana as the president is just not true. It's not true. Yeah. I think sometimes about Dana's role. in the development of sport and you can't take away what he obviously accomplished. I think that there are arguments that other people could have accomplished similar results. But, you know, if I had wheels, I'd be a wagon. That's not what happened.

Dana did that. I think the sport is made worse by his current presence. And that's not really an indictment of, I guess really is an indictment of him. but it's just that when you say the sport would suck without Dana, my thought is we're engaging with the sport on two different levels. And that's okay. If you like the sport, I'm not here to tell you the way you are enjoying is wrong.

Like, it's a fucking sport. Like you are a fan. However you want to do that is okay. For me, I think that the sport is actively worse because of the business practices that the UFC participates in. And I find them more, find them morally objectionable, but that's not why the sport's worse.

From a viewer-based product, it makes the sport worse. Like, they are making so much money, and that money is trickling to the fighters. There is not a wealth of that, and that's the way they are doing that is by giving us 50 contender series fighters every other card. Like, it's Dana is the leader of this, but really I think any business person would be doing largely the same for him at this point, you're getting a devalued product because we are all still willing to pay for because the product is still good, but it's not what it could be. And so I think that the sport is actively worse because the UFC could have paid Francis

and Gano. The UFC could have chosen to pay Francis in Gano. They could have matched the PFL's offer easily. They wouldn't have even noticed it on their bottom line if you looked at John Nash's reporting this past week if they had just matched the Francis Inganu offer, but they were unwilling to do so for a myriad of reasons. And now we'll never get John Jones versus Francis Inganu. That the sport is worse because of that. Like we are, it is not as much fun without things like that. And that's the way business is done with them. And I can't knock them from a business standpoint. They're obviously incredibly successful. But from worship standpoint, it is objectively less interesting, because of their business practices.

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Conditions apply. What else we got? Oh. All right. Just one of this. Let's do it. Are there UFC fighters who might be upset that power? Slap is being promoted more by the UFC than their actual fighters.

See, and this is another reason why that I bring up to anything, Dana could just focus on Power Slap. Like, he's totally in on it. And he wants to make this thing, exactly. He wants to make this thing a massive success. And as anybody who wants to do run a business, you want it to be a massive success. And Dana is exhausting every single avenue that he can from using the UFC's platform to promote something that has nothing to do with the UFC outside of the president running it,

you have Mike Tyson promoting it and social media influencers like the Nelk boys and barstool and all them promoting this event as if it's happening. And they're treating these guys to hotel suites and all expenses paid trips to Las Vegas. And I'm not knocking anybody for that because that's what they do. And that's totally fine. They're not journalists, so it's all good. but if you want this thing to be a massive juggerna, if you really feel that this can be bigger

than all of the major sports combined, then you still have something to keep you busy and it's still under the same umbrella. If that's what your focus is on, then focus on that. No one's going to knock you for that. I'm not going to watch it. It ain't for me. I ain't going to cover it.

I ain't going to talk about it outside of this question and a couple of others. But I'm sure if I'm not, are a little bit upset. Like, why wouldn't they be? Like, McKenzie Derns coming up, this big win. You could use your social media platform to put her over, especially after the story she's telling on the MMA hour yesterday.

Like, put her over. Give her some shine. Talk about the upcoming fights. Don't just overwhelm us with PowerSlapp promos. Like, you can still do the Power Slap and run it on the Power Slap social medias. But do you have to inundate your website and all of your platforms with this power slap that most UFC fans are not even interested in? That's my big issue with it.

But if I'm a fighter, especially somebody on the precipice of getting over that hump and breaking through, yeah, I'm a little bit disturbed by this, a little bit annoyed by this, wouldn't you? I mean, I would be, but I feel like I've made my thoughts here. Relatively clear, I would never sign with the UFC if I were a fighter. It just wouldn't be for me. My answer to this question is they should be. doubt any of them care and I based that on the fact that when the UFC sold for 4.2 billion dollars what eight years ago however long ago that was seven years ago I guess uh most of the responses from the fighters were wow great for them that was dope cool it wasn't like oh

oh that's the degree to which we have been getting collectively bent over a barrel here and when the UFC functionally had their value established as like over $12 million or $12 billion earlier this year with the WWE merger again the fighters didn't come out and were like collectively weren't worth $12 billion and were the product and I'm making 10 and 10 and begging for a 50k bonus and there still was no outcry why is the fact that the YouTube page is filled with power slap's going to be the thing that. that makes fighters care. They're wired different.

Fighters don't seem to care about the same things that I would care about or that most people feel like they should care about. And, you know, that's their choice. I don't care about Power Slap. It doesn't offend me the way it does many people. It would be cooler if there was just less of it being thrown in my face by the UFC, but I can also just kind of move past it and it's not a huge deal to me. So yeah, I don't know.

They're trying to build this to be another multi-billion dollar business. I don't think it'll work, but who can say? Well, I guess we'll see. Yeah. And I'm, I'm exactly with you on that. Like, if you want to watch PowerSlapp, good on you. I'm not going to knock you or anything like that. God, that's fine.

It's not for me. I have a PowerSlapp question. I've never actually watched an event. I've seen like some clips on social because they're always out there. And any of the commenters who have watched Power Slap, this is a genuine question. I saw one yesterday because it popped on my timeline. Are they not allowed to roll? Do they just have to get hit?

Is that they can't even like time a roll with the slap or whatever? Like, because that just doesn't even make sense fundamentally to the sport. Like, I feel like sport. That's the whole thing. You can't defend yourself. That's why it's not a sport. Well, that's not a sport. But like I get at least conceptually like you can't block.

But like I can't roll. That feels like by definition should be part and parcel of slapping. Like that's like I can't sway out of the way, but I can't turn my cheek with it. Like I have to turn into it. It just seems very odd. Let me see. I'm trying to, I'm trying to look at the rules. Oh, they're fouls.

Like people win by DQ. People get knocked out. There's so many files. So many files. No clubbing. No clubbing, stepping. Illegal windups. Delay of games or fouls.

Defender files include flinching, blocking. What's an delay of game? Foul consequences include warnings, point deduction, loss of strike, restrike, and DQ, the complete power slip rule set. It's whatever. But those are the fouls. You can't block. I need someone to explain the legal windup because I see these dudes do like a full sprinkler head

turn and if that's not a wind-up what the fuck one is man so many times the other dude gets knocked out but he'll still win by DQ because he I don't know he lifted a foot or his hills came off the ground or something

it doesn't matter because you just got knocked out and that happens all the time and for social media purposes they still send the clip out and the dude still gets knocked out and no one's going that's an illegal slap so they don't care Okay, there's there's actually there's this is the wind up rule. There is a why an actual windup rule.

Prior to completing the permitted slap, the striker must elect verbally and with hand signals with referee confirmation. The hand the striker will use to strike in the number one, two or three in which the strike will land. Each number has the following meaning. One means no wind up. Two means after the hand is lined up. One practice motion is taken. then a strike lands on two. Three means once the hand is lined up, two practice motions are taken, then a strike lands on three.

So if you're saying, I'm going to do a one, which means you're just going and then, or you say it's a three, and then you just smack the dude in the face without the warning of a windup, that would be a windup foul. Okay.

Look at learning something new. Still, not my cup of tea, but if you're into it, God bless. It's trying to teach social media stuff, I'm trying to teach someone like what a balk is in MMA and baseball. So it's just like... Honestly, yeah, that actually felt a little bit like that. It's like, okay.

It's okay. Yeah. I don't really understand these rules, but they're the rules and you guys agree to them. So okay. Question. Because Mike mentioned Zufa boxing. Do we have women slapping league? I'm sorry.

I believe so. We're too deep down the power slapping. Yeah, we always have no idea. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, it's all gender. Mike you mentioned Zufa boxing earlier and they failed well it never happened Zufa boxing is power slap just Zuba boxing?

It feels like it because that's good. Yeah, could be what they pivoted to. This is what Zufa boxing would have been if Dana could have ever gotten boxing to be a thing. Because this is the profit margins they won't, I assume, or are looking for. And that's why they couldn't make it happen in boxing. So it just eliminate the boxers. Because it's federal regulations. One of the greatest things that I've ever been a part of working in this space was when Dana came out, I believe it was during one of the Mayweather McGregor pressers.

And he wore the Zufa boxing t-shirt and he was asked about it saying that we're going to do this. My old editor when I was working at FanCited bought Zufaboxing.com. And when you went to the site, it went to his Twitter page. The most brilliant thing ever. I don't know how long it lasted, but he just, I remember him like DMing slacking me. He goes, Zupa Boxing.com, click on this and went right to his Twitter account. I'm like, that is freaking brilliant. And I don't know how much this cost you, but worth every penny, my friend, worth every penny.

I remember that story of someone buying it. Zofa boxing is, I think, one of the low-key funniest things that's happened or not happened in the sports history. If you, because I don't think people really think about it. They made T-shirts. They made T-shirts. They just don't think people think about it enough where it's like, okay, boxing is federally regulated because it was so corrupt for so long that the government was like, all right, we have to like get at least somewhat involved because this is this is outrageously corrupt. And like, Dana, then it's like, I'm going to get into boxing. And then it's like, I can't work in boxing.

and if you do a little transitive math in that, it's like, why can't you work in boxing? Because they're regulations. What are those regulations to prevent outward corruption of the worst kind? Huh. Okay. It's just outrageous to me. And nobody's like, huh? Zufa boxing doesn't work.

But the rest of the Zufa product line does, no federal regulations in there. I wonder if those things are connected at all. All right. I wonder if there's a reason matchroom boxing made like $12 million last year and the UFC made like $380 million last year. I wonder if there's what could be the cost? Who can say? Saw Dana White.

When does John Jones-Stepe actually happen? Are you like at this point, Jed, as the president of the Stepe-Meich fan club, I feel like it's November or it's never happening. Madison Square Garden. It's just going to happen. Yeah. And if it doesn't happen then, then Steepage is not fighting. Like I just.

That would be the funniest outcome if the UFC can't even put this freaking softball together. Like John's just going to retire if they can't do it or whatever. It's like, well, who am I going to fight? So, but no, it's just going to be the Madison Square Garden card. Agreed. Maybe. Maybe December.

Like, I don't know, because maybe Madison Square Garden ends up being McGregor Chandler, but it's one of those two. How different is the making John Jones-Stepe from making John Jones versus Francis in the sense that you said the U.S. just simply didn't want to pay. Is it the same exact situation going on right here with Steepay? They just don't want to pay. They can and no one they wouldn't notice. they just don't want to. I assume.

Does UFC need to make the fight? Mike knows way more about the inner workings on stuff like that than I do. My assumption is that the blocker is largely just not giving the dudes the money that they want to come and fight each other. But I could be wrong. Yeah. I mean, remember last year there were talks about putting that fight together for like an interim title or something before they figure out was going on with Francis? and that was kind of part of it. They wanted to put that fight together, like, real quick.

And Steve Aden, I mean, Arrows talked about this on his show as well, so I'm not like saying anything that I shouldn't be saying. But Steve Aden really loved the offer that he was given to fight on the notice that he was given. And he was like, no, here's my counter. And the UFC's like, well, it's take it or leave. And he said, okay, I'll just leave it. I won't do it. But now, like, John wants it.

He's calling him out. And Dana has put this out there for everybody. Like, we're going to do this fight. going to happen then like all of this like they kind of have to put this together and make it work and i think if you're in the steepe camp right now like you know this and stepea despite not fighting all that often has understood the business being in the ufc so long that he understands well he's not connor he's got a little bit of leverage here he's got a little bit of leverage here because of what is available right now this fight with stepe is the biggest possible fight that they could put

together for John Jones right now and for this division. I know some people would rather see Sergey Pavlovich get in there because of the meritocracy part of it. And I get that. But John Jones versus Stepe is a way bigger fight than John Jones versus Sergey Pavlovich, not even close. So I think Steve is well aware of the little bit of leverage he has in the situation. He's probably going to get a little bit more than he would have gotten to fight John last year.

So, yeah, I think it's going to get done. And if it doesn't happen in November, then I'm just fully convinced that. this point that Steve Bay is just not going to fight again. And I think he'd be okay with that. This goes back to a previous question about or statement about the UFC being better with Dana. And not to re-harp on this, but like there are two ways functionally to approach negotiations, be it fight negotiations or whatever. And it's one of them, which is the way that the UFC largely seems to conduct itself, is they hold 99% of, of the cards, and they may eventually make concessions for some reasons, but you are going to have

to claw those concessions out of their cold dead hands. Like, it is a fight. And so in this situation, Stipe does have some leverage, because if he doesn't fight again, there's a very real possibility that John Jones doesn't fight again. And then their argument to having the baddest man on the planet goes up in smoke. Ultimately, the UFC doesn't need that, though. And they know that at the bottom line it does not matter what we roll out there with the belt on the line people are going to eat it up so they don't have to make huge concessions like they would have had to give francis they exist on a on a paradigm of okay well we can give you maybe a little bit but ultimately you need this more than we do and we're just going to hold firm and that's fine not i am not

speaking to that as a business strategy, the moral implications of it. I am just saying that is just how business is done. The other way they could do business is say, we made $380 million last year profit. Like, I will give you an extra $1 million both of you. You will both say yes immediately, and we will have this fight. And you could just do all the cool things. Like if I ran the UFC for literally one year. And I didn't get to do big structural changes. I just got to negotiate fights. I would make it the most fun fucking year in the history of the promotions. Be like, I have a $380 million pot to work with. I will give a million dollars to you two gentlemen. I want you to fight in two months. And they will all say yes. That's how they could do things. And it would be

way more fun for us to fans. It's not how they choose to do business. And that's why instead of this fight happening in the summer at International Fight Week, it's getting delayed out to Madison garden because they are they are never going to open up the checkbook ever ever ever yeah and just say you know what i'll sweeten the pot a little more we'll do leon versus colby as the co-main event that's going to help the gate and help pay-per-view buys and all that so there you go given that you're good it's a fine that's a damn good one two punch right there for msg jones stepea leon colby we get colby and john jones on a press conference together with their relationship from the past

that'll be all sorts of wild and weird That would be good So there you go New York I see the term Fumble the bag everywhere Especially when you talk about The UFC has never fumbled the bag The UFC clinches a bag

Yeah Who is in the Jones versus Stepe Fight that may not May or not may never happen Who is fumbling the bag Is it John Jones? Is it Stepe? Is it the UFC? I don't think anybody's fumbling.

John Jones is probably fumbling it the most, but I really don't think anyone's fumbling it that hard. Sometimes everything doesn't have to be. Because he's making zero money. Everything doesn't have to be adversarial is one of the things I've learned, like as I've gotten older. Sometimes things just don't work for everybody. And the UFC largely views every negotiation as adversarial.

And that's like my fundamental issue with them here. they are ultimately not fumbling the bag because they made $380 million dollars this year. They're going to do the same, if not more next year. Like they aren't losing money because they have a set price point that they get from ESPN. It truly doesn't matter to them. For like both Francis and John are losing out all money, but money isn't always the important thing to people. Like respect, dignity, getting the things you feel you are entitled to or just simply.

not competing are reasonable wants and desires. And if Stepe doesn't fight, he's not going to get the bag of money. He's probably doing financially well or at least said enough. He still has a full-time job, so he's fine in that regard. And John's the same way. Like, sometimes they just won't work. And so, like, from a fan standpoint, I would say the UFC's screwing up the most, but I don't know that anyone's really, they're all just adhering to their principles, which I just disagree with some people's principles over others. Yeah, no one's fumble in the bag here. Steve A.

doesn't have to fight. Like, if he'd never fought again, I think he'd be fine. He's a dad, husband, multiple kids. He loves being a firefighter. And you get damn good Benny's being a firefighter when you retire from that. I know this. My father was a firefighter for 35 years. You do pretty damn well.

Oh. You do pretty damn well, especially if you're in the departments for a long time. and the benefits you get after you retire are incredible. So, Steve is doing just fine. They're certainly better than the benefits you get after you retire at the UFC. It's a great point. Can you list those benefits you get from the UFC? None.

For a while, if you were really, really important, they gave you a no-show job at the office until they sold to another media company. And fired all of those people. And for the record, I do not think Steppe is fumbling the bag. I'm just kind of putting it out there more, yeah, just because I see all the, you know, Francis fumbled the bag. It's like, well, I'm, I just wonder why that same argument doesn't go for Steve A, because I disagree with both, but yeah.

Francis did not fumble the bag at all. And I've said this, I've said this. Yeah. Yeah. If, if Francis fumbled the bag, then like I said on the podcast, douse my hands in Crisco, because I'd love to fumble the bag in the exact same way. somebody in the comments just made a good statement on this it's omar m stepe fumbling the bag because he doesn't care about it and that's probably actually the most succinct way to put it is like yeah by many definitions stepe's

not getting paid money so a lot of people and a lot of fans will think he's fumbling the bag he just doesn't care and that's reasonable yeah he's fumbling the bag because he thought the bag would be heavier. Yeah, he said he'll pick up the bag if it's heavier than the bag that they're giving him. If it's heavier, he'll pick it up and run with it.

But it's too light. Picks it up, he thinks it's heavier and he just throws it up in the sky and just flows off into the air. So it's lightweight. Yeah, lightweight.

But I do ultimately like this file will get done. Yeah, I think it's just going to happen in Madison Square Garden in December. One of the two. Yeah. If it doesn't happen in November,

at what point is this, Is this fight dead? January. I think it can happen in December. If it goes to the end of this year without being made, the fight is dead. I'll agree with that. Yeah, I'm kind of, who's going to wait out longer? Who has to wait on?

Stipe's or John? I think they both might just wait out the same because they both might be of the opinion that they're just not fighting anyone other than each other. Yeah. agree completely agree all right though i am on team that believes john will continue to fight post stepe but so minority i don't like i think after the stepey fight if he wins and i would expect him to win uh i don't think he's like retired retired like i don't think that's the last john jones fight we'll ever see i just don't think he'll fight for a little while think he'll sit out and wait and

see if something fun happens how incredible would be if Steepa won and then actually retired and just refused. And John is just braving him to a rematch that he can never get. That would be unbelievable. No, dude, I'm 42. I beat you. Deal with it. Honestly, that's what DC should have done to Stepe.

It would have been the best. And DC has kind of basically admitted that. He kind of went for the bag instead of just saying, I'm done. Yeah. And I think he kind of even though he got you know a few million I think he does in the end regret it. Yeah. I don't think it looks like a mistake if he beats John. I think he's out.

I don't know. I think of my legacy is different. If he retires after he knocks out. So it's so much different. It's so different. It's incredible. Sorry. So July 29th is going to be a fun day, everybody.

We get obviously the UFC pay-per-view event. And apparently the terrorist. Crockford, Aero Spence fight is official for July 29. Terrence tweeted it out himself, so that's good enough for me. That timing is going to be a bitch. It's on Showtime, right? I mean, that's going to have to really thread a needle for Poriagic to be done by the time they're making the walk. Team Mobile Arena, July 29th.

Not in altitude. Two big paper views. busy night busy night I just hope we get to watch them both like all of both of them and not some overlapping boxing doesn't make the big fights

well took them what how many years to put this one together finally Jesus a decade I don't know it feels like forever hey do you're talking the whole show about a fight that the UFC can't make and then here we go.

That kid's you're framing it incorrectly because Dana White puts on the fights the fans want to see. Correct. So the fight that Francis and Gano couldn't make, he's the blame. All right. You guys already cover the whole 13% revenue split debacle. I mean, is it a debacle? It's what it is. It's higher 13.

It depends what side you're on. I suspect that everybody. money in the WME offices this week was just like, this fucking rules. This is, we are printing money. This is great. And not only are we printing money, but the people who ostensibly should be upset by this,

many of them literally reach out online to defend us. When people are like, hey, you guys should get more money. They're like, fuck you. I should get what the UFC gives me. I don't know how he pulled this off, but it's great. They did it. They did it.

it. Yeah. They sign mega deals with companies where if this is any other sports league that put these types of deals together, all the players would have come together and been like, we should probably like do something about this.

But I don't know. I don't know. Whatever they've done, they've done a tremendous job. So, I mean, what else can you do? What else can you do? Yeah, look, this is not to get, I'm going to touch on political for just a moment.

The gun debate in America, in my estimation, and in many people's, pretty much functionally ended after Sandy Hook, and we didn't do anything about it. And I'm not here to make a comment on that. I'm just saying, if you think that anything after that is going to move the needle and make something happen, you're wrong. Feel exactly the same with fighter pay. When the UFC sold for $4 billion and the fighters didn't do shit about it, I stopped thinking the fighters were ever going to do shit about it. It is simply not going to happen.

So that percentage is going to get closer and closer to 10. And 10 is probably the lowest it will go, but that is just going to keep shrinking because they are going to keep bringing in contender series talent on 10 and tens. They're going to keep making money hand over fist from their broadcast rights deals. And the fighters are never going to get wise and stand up for what's theirs. This is just the reality. And once you accept that, it becomes a lot easier to just watch the sport and be like, all right, well, that's the choice the fighters are making. That sucks. I wish they made better, but it's their lives and they get to control it. So here I am. Yeah. And there's been multiple opportunities to come together as well, especially with this. And you just got another one with this

merger and the valuation of what, $12 billion for this new company, another opportunity to come together and it's still not happening. So Joe Lozahn has taken an absolute verbal thrashing about his thoughts on this for the last decade or so. And he's right. He's been right the whole time. He's like, look, it's never going to happen. As long as I'm alive, this is never going to happen.

And he basically pointed out the exact reasons that you pointed out, Jed. Like, it's a, it's fighting. You can make a case that it's like a team sport because you have like collective teams and like teammates help you get ready for fights. but when it comes to actual competition, this is an individual sport. And there's just no way you're going to get everybody on board, like the biggest stars in the sport to be like,

you know what, I'm going to put my neck on the line for this guy who just won the LFA Walterway title, but is taking a fight in the UFC on nine days notice to make more money. I just don't think they're going to do it with 600 fighters on the roster. It's unfortunate, man. Like it stinks, but it's just not going to happen.

But until that does, this fighter pay discussion is not going to change. There's like, I can only even see one path outside of regulation coming in. And it's like theoretically, honestly, like, I could just build and pitch a decent business proposal to any like management company and be like, hey, right now you can invest pretty limited funds to manage low asset MMA fighters. And if you can get a bunch of them, sure, you're. percentage on them is going to be almost nothing for a long period of time. But if you can reach a critical mass of them and you can then use that mass to leverage into a union, at which point their profits will go up like 400 percent and thus your percentage of that

will go up to an enormous amount, you could maybe pull that off. The problem is all the MMA managers are tight with data because he specifically has planned this. So it's just like never going to happen. There's no, it's just never going to happen. Like, fighters are going to make 10% forever. Just be okay with it because you can't fight it. You cannot stand up against this tide. It's funny because I, you know, I train with, you know,

a lot of good amateur and pro fighters. And it's just kind of an acceptance that if everything goes perfect, I'll make a good middle class living, you know, for a few years. You know, maybe I can save something up. by a nice car. But it's definitely an acceptance. I'm not going to make real money dedicating my life to the sport.

And yeah, you just don't see that in boxing gyms. But MMA is just, that's just, it's, it's, it's, it's in the brains. It, I don't know. And, yeah. I mean, here's a culture. It is what it is. It's the culture. Just, just, just to play like the other side of it,

for a second because I know when we talk about the UFC we talk about MMA most notably the UFC there is which makes this merger with WWE sort of ironic there are certainly ties to the UFC's promotional tools compared to WWEs back the day what WWE was in the 1980s after they sort of like mopped up all the regional territorial promotions and became this global brand was they had the biggest space in order to put talent on television and get them recognized. But even then, besides like Hulk Hogan and some of the bigger names, Mitzigman always said like, look, I can't guarantee your riches, but I can guarantee you an opportunity to get over and try to make that money.

And it took 18 years. It took probably until the attitude era and Kevin Nash and Scott Hall going to WCW and getting guaranteed money. that changed the business forever. We got guaranteed contracts. Wrestler pay became a thing. It wasn't just, hey,

we'll give you this chance. You make dollars upon dollars, but if you get over, you have the chance to make more money. The business changed. I'm not saying that like maybe something happens. There's a competitor down the road. And maybe it is the PFL.

Maybe it is the PFL. Maybe this Francis thing pays off. I'm not saying it. I'm not overly confident because I just have so many questions. But maybe this Francis thing pays off. And this type of deal gets other stars over there to kind of force the issue that this is what we have to do to remain competitive. Because that's what happened in wrestling. It took a long time for wrestlers to make that kind of a living, even if they're big stars outside of the major stars.

It's very similar to where MMA is right now. It's very similar to where the UFC is right now because like WWF had WrestleMania 3 in front of 93,000 people and Hulk Hogan was on the main event. that thing made a ton of money. But those guys weren't all getting paid a ton of money. They were just given the opportunity to be on the card and get a payday. And that's kind of where they're at right now. And they were still getting bigger. But it just took like another decade plus.

And eventually once the competition came in and started making waves and actually catching WWF and actually beating WWF in a lot of respects, WCW, that forced the business to change forever. So possibly we could see a similar route. but we need, what needs to happen is that whether it's PFL or Bellator or somebody, they have to make a big move. And I'm looking at you, PFL. If you can make this Francis thing work and you can bring in other talent and you can change the industry in that sense from a business perspective,

then maybe that gets the UFC on board to do the same thing. But until that happens, UFC is just so far ahead of everybody that they don't need to change anything. Like Jed said, they're printing money. But this is very similar to where WWF was back in the 80s. And I see with fans all the time. There's multiple comments I've seen like, it's like basically I pay to watch UFC. I don't pay to watch fighters.

Yeah. And that's okay. Yeah. That's fine. It's the brand, man. It's the brand. I'm not here to shit on this. That's what you're saying.

I mean, I disagree with it. Oh, yeah. But it's like I disagree with it on moral grounds, but this just is what it is. And if you're going to, like, you just can't interact with this if it bothers you because it is the situation. Yeah. Look, I watch WrestleMania every year. I don't even know who's on it. I just know I'm going to watch it because it's WrestleMania.

I'm just going to watch it. So, and some people look at fighting the same way. It's just, that's what it is. what ruins what hurts me about this whole contender series 10 and 10 thing before we move on and this is a selfish thing i used to fucking love the contender series i used to love it the first two seasons i loved it so much that it was just like the fights were great it was just boom boom boom boom boom boom like only the best only the best performance got a contract and then like the next season two was pretty good and then three came around then four came around and

then last season we get the first episode and dana just cuts this incredible promo be joe pifer show up on tuesday night ready to make an impact be joe pifer we're only given one contract out i'm like oh thank god we're going back to season and then they gave the most contracts they've ever given out the rest of the season just stop doing that but i understand why now but now we know why they're doing that why they're giving out 35 40 contracts on the contender series for this exact purpose, but it ruined the show. It ruined the whole show for me. But that was the show.

That's what sucks. And reality kind of sucks when you kind of... I know. I know. The show is, yeah, the show is like one, maybe two. Like, if two people got a contract, this is one of the best contender series episodes I've ever had. But now it's like five, sometimes six.

Sometimes somebody who lost a fight gets a contract. Just give a contract to the guy in the crowd. Yeah, it's like a gladiator challenge show. Hey, you. It hurts my soul. I used to love the contender series so much. Yeah. It was just always the inevitable endpoint.

Their profit margins can't go up anymore unless they pay people less. They got it. And next year, they're going to go, can we do 12%? Yeah. They're going to get down to 10. Yeah. They're going to get to 10%. That's going to be the number.

That's the good, happy number. If the fighters are happy, then I'm happy for them. If they made $380 million profit last year, they're going to make like probably 500 million profit this year. Dude, in two years when they renegotiate their TV rights deal. Oh, my God. They are going to be making well over a half billion dollars a year. And the fighters never get to wind up. It's incredible.

Yeah, probably more. Probably more. If what they were saying on that endeavor call that they're going to sprinkle the product around and like different possibly on different networks. That TV deal is going to be fucking ginormous. Yeah, ginormous. So much money. All right.

And last question. All right, Jed. If you were a fighter, what promotion would you sign with? I mean, you are the one of the head honchos of BKFC, according to our fantasy draft. So maybe we go there.

So I've said this a lot. And actually, I would never sign with DFC for all the, stuff we've talked about again not to like I'm maybe maybe it's just I think I'm better than them frankly but like I I would like to be respected and whatever your feelings on the UFC's business practices I think it's pretty unarguable that Dana White does not respect fighters like he just straight up doesn't he disrespects them actively all the time anytime they push back against him and so I would not go to somewhere

where my promoter I have a really good chance to be adversarial with them. If I were a fighter, one, I'm also like, if I were a fighter, what am I going to be a good one? Come on, guys,

look at me. Like, I'm not going to be some world beater who can make Connor McGregor money. I'm just a dude fighting. Just a guy out there. So at least do it in a place that makes me happy

and the people are cool. I would probably sign with PFL just on the off chance. I high rolled three fights and won the million dollars. But one would be cool because you get to travel a bunch to Asia, which is always fun.

And I have always thought Bellator would be the obvious one. You'd be like, hey, this is a professional organization run by professionals who will treat me with dignity and respect. I'll be a part of this company. That seems like a good use of my time. Yeah. Bellator is a good one. anyone I've ever talked to that fights for Bellator is incredibly happy.

I mean, just incredibly happy to fight for them. And I'm talking on the record, off the record, just super happy. Some who got turned down from Contender Series contracts and ended up signing with Bellator. They're like, oh, thank God. Thank God that happened. And the only issue they ever have of Bellator is not Bellator. It's the fans because they just feel sometimes I just don't get the respect for how good of a fighter I am because I'm in this. cage but they're like you know what though my mortgage is paid my family's happy so

fm so i do i do that's pretty much my i want to say in defense of the ufc in that every time every event i've ever covered with them they're an incredibly professional staff they all do they work very very well the issue isn't with the people that do it it is within a top level issue being if i signed with the ufc as a fighter and i i signed and a great to my fight terms. And I honestly am one of the like few people who's like, yeah, you agree to a five fight contract. Don't renegotiate in the middle of it. Just fight out your contract. You agreed to it. Follow up your word. But if my contract ends and I'm ready to negotiate, I don't then want to know that I'm about to be in a fist fight over every little detail or

just in a position if I'm lucky where it's take it or leave it and then I can just walk away. Like, it's just not worth it to me. Like I want to be like, hey, here are the things. things I want, can you come back in good faith with a counter and I can take it or I can leave it and we can walk away as opposed to here are the things I want. What is your, what can you offer me? I don't want to do that. Well, now the head honcho is running me down in the media because I don't want to fight on a three month turnaround after just offending my title earlier in May. I guess that is just not worth it to me. I would never, never put myself in that position. And honestly, that's just advice to any of you.

Like, don't take a job where there's a high possibility that the people you are reaching out to as your superiors are going to make your life, they're negatively impacting your life. It's just not worth it. Well said. Well said. And you know, you know it deserves a lot of credit

for how he's navigated his career. Michael Chandler. Michael Chandler. Five for Bellator forever. Won some. I agree. lost some and then he went to the UFC at the exact right time free agency comes up gets a big win over a former champion got a big bag of money got a great opportunity got a big knocko cut a great

promo he was made right there and then after one UFC fight and now look at him he's got a sub 500 record in the UFC and he's about to fight freaking Connor McGregor talk about a guy who got to the UFC at the exact right time for all three parties the UFC and bellator too It was a perfect time to Belichor actually. 100%. Betelor actually didn't need Chandler at that point either. I think that story had run its course. And yeah, it was perfect by all three parties.

Yep. If you're a fighter and you're going to sign with the UFC, be like Michael Chandler. And that's why I like, that's why I wouldn't because if you sign with him, you really should just be a company dude. Like I get it. I'm, I stand behind people like Al Jermaine Sterling and whatever. But like you should know who you're signing with when you sign. with them. And so if you're going to do it, just be a yes dude. And your experience in the company is

probably much better. Like, and that's, well, that's it. Like Michael Chandler, I just, I don't like many things about the man, but he undeniably has been a great asset for the UFC. And I guarantee you if you ask him, he has loved his time with the promotion because he just says yes and opportunities keep coming. And so if that's, if you can carry yourself that way, absolutely sound with the UFC. Yeah. PFL is a good one too. Like Shane Bergo signing with the PFL was... Everyone should sign with the PFL. You have a chance to have a million dollars.

You can change the business. And you can help try to change the business. Because I feel like if anyone... Every heavyweight super sign with the PFL, you have a chance to just get $2 million to fight Francis. Yes. Love it. That it?

Yeah, that's it. Any plans this long weekend, Jed? I'm driving down to... Tampa tomorrow morning before work and spending it there with my best friend. Clear water, not Tampa, but you know, same same. Close enough.

Same enough. Very nice. So doing that. What about you? I'm playing a little golf on Saturday. Wife and I's anniversaries this weekend, 11 years. 11 years strong. That was nice. That was nice of the UFC to plan their schedule around your anniversary.

Very. We've been shitting a UFC, but hey, I'll give the UFC that took a week off they used to they used to have cards the weekend the day before i got married that's a being uh me and all the fellas did we played poker and watched uh the ufc card there was a bunch of heavy weights on there like heavy weights everywhere hell yeah the best kind of card yep and then monday uh monday's memorial day obviously we we we remember what that day is for uh it's murph day murph day monday so been preparing for the for the MRF and good luck on that i'm going to murph it up on monday and that sounds miserable

it's probably going to be miserable but we've been prepping like every monday for the last like six or seven weeks and the prep if the prep is if the workout is as bad as the prep then it's going to be quite the day but uh murf day monday and excited for that casey what do you got playing this weekend anything exciting i'm honestly i'm kind of lost i don't know what to do for myself. Do you. Do MRF. Run the MRF on Monday.

Go do MRF. Yeah. You can do it. Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to train a lot and go run some trails. I don't know. Maybe.

Yeah. Do MR. Do MRF. Mix in some pushups. You're fine. Yeah. Do you know what MRF is? Is it a CrossFit thing kind of?

So you do, anyone can do it. It's a, you run a mile, then you do 100 pull-ups, 200 push-ups and 300 air squats. and then you run another mile and you're done. 100 pull-ups? 100 pull-ups is a lot of fucking pull-ups, man. In a row? You got to break that up. Okay.

You can do it however you want. So you can, like, you don't have to do them all in a row. Like you do, most people do a five, most people do a five, 10, 15 split. So you do like five pull-ups, 10 push-ups, 15 squats, and then you just do it all over again. That makes sense. Yeah, I can see that. All right. So, wait, so you run a mile.

What is? You run a mile. Then you do 100 pull-ups, pull-ups, 200, pushups, 300 squats, air squats, and then you run another mile. That's the workout. How many times do you do it? Once. Oh, so you add a mile on each end.

Yeah, it's a mile at the beginning and a mile at the end. Okay. In the middle, the meat on the sandwich is, uh, all the pulling and the pushing and the squatting. Are you sure you could do that? You're, you're, you're, Mr. 10. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I was like, I was like, I was like, oh, the running part's easy. I was trying. I was, I was like, when you said a hundred pull ups like, oh, oh boy. I was like, but yeah, we break it up. Okay. There's also a good time limit. You really can't do it.

Just take you an hour. Just do the middle part. It's fine. Okay, just do it until you're done. All right, I'm down. I'm down. Let's go. Johnage accepted.

All right. Casey and I, Murf Day Monday. Jets are going to do the Murph as well? I'm going to go fishing on Monday. Much better, much better. Well, enjoy your long weekend if you are in the United States. And if not, enjoy the weekend. without the ultimate fighting championship.

Hang out with your friends, hang out with your family. Enjoy this because the UFC is back next week and then there's a card every Saturday until Labor Day weekend. So I believe that's 13 weeks. So strap up and enjoy the weekend. Summer run, baby.

Let's go. Next week, it's for Jed and Casey. I am Mike Heck. Good night, everybody. Love you all. This has been Between the Links, an MMA fighting production on the Vox Media Network.

Thank you.