MMA Fighting - BTL | Demetrious Johnson Gets Revenge, Jake Paul vs. Anderson Silva, UFC Paris

Episode Date: September 1, 2022

Demetrious Johnson made it happen at ONE Championship's Amazon Prime debut against Adriano Moraes. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss Johnson's fourth-round stoppage win to reclaim the ONE bantamweight title, along with looking back on the trade with Ben Askren years later, and how to rank him moving forward. In addition, topics include reacting to the targeted boxing matchup between former UFC middleweight champ Anderson Silva and Jake Paul, what's at stake in the main event of Saturday's UFC Paris event between Ciryl Gane and Tai Tuivasa, how the rest of the promotion's France debut looks on paper, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and New York Ric. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed K. Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first... There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion

to luxe beauty and fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holt's holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. The MA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. We're getting some feedback with the iconic voice.

Don't really know why, but... Is this... Okay. Someone has it open and is watching it. Someone... Oh, man. Am I going to hear my voice too? I'm hearing it again.

I'm hearing it again. I love it. Wait, there I am. And there I am again. We're everywhere. What's going on? This is a row, row, row your boat right here.

Yeah. Who's killing it? I don't know why this is happening. Casey, what's going on? I know I'm on. Now you're on. Is it? Wait, hold on.

What a start to the show. It's coming from Jeds. It's coming from Jeds. There's no way. Talk, Jed? It's coming from Jedds, yeah. It's definitely coming from Jedmishu. I mean, come on, Mr. Do Gray area.

I don't know how it's coming for me, but I don't have anything open on my computer. Is it gone now? I think so. Is it gone now? I think we're okay. I think we're okay. Hey, listen, this is what happens when. We started the show a little bit earlier.

That was weird. I don't know why that happened. That was okay. I want to be clear. I didn't touch anything. I did nothing. Well, I mean, now you know that we ain't pre-recorded or anything like that. We are live a little bit earlier this week.

We're coming off one of our biggest episodes ever. Definitely the most positive response. So how I hear the intro again? No, no, no. I'm just getting the music going. Here, you feel like we got to get the mood back. Here we go. Now you got me all flustered, but.

happening. But going back to last week's show, it was definitely the most positive response we've ever had on the program following the epic battle between Jed Mishu and Brian Campbell. It was a back and forth, hammer and tongs type of debate

and BC got the fan vote, but the BTL virtual arena, I like to call this a place of hope, a place of redemption. And as you saw, Jed Mishu is back this week looking to get back on track. You can check him out

all over the M.A. Fighting Podcast Network quite a bit right now. No Betts Bard. A very interesting stroll down memory lane soon to come about the cancellation of UFC 151 10 years ago. You might have seen his interview with Greg Jackson on M.AFighting.com. It's going to be a very special edition of Dan. They Were Good. Jed, welcome back, my very busy friend. Thanks for having me back. I don't need redemption. I rewatched it. I put the boots to Brian Campbell. I know that y'all love him because you do. And I love BC2's great guy, but he got tuned up something fierce. Like, at best, he won two rounds.

At absolute best. You giving him the first round is a travesty when he's calling Leon Edwards headkick a fluke. What is that not? A fluke? He kicked the man in the face and called his shot beforehand. Anyway, I absolutely steamrolled BC, but I'm glad to have a worthy challenger here in Ricky. New York Creek. Man comes with good takes.

Yes, the aforementioned opponent. He's been on the show. I believe this is his fourth appearance. He is the social media director here at MAAfighting.com. He's a longtime and pivotal member of the MMA hour crew. And I'll say it again. He is the greatest theme song in the history of MMA. So let us say hello once again to Mr. New York, Rick.

Welcome back, sir. I can't. Oh, you're muted. I can't hear him. There we go. That was my fault. On Casey. Hello, New York, Rick.

Hello, I will confirm that I do have the best music in all of MMA. Thank you for that, Mr. Mikeek. I come to you. I have had an epiphany, and I want to say this up front. Because I don't bow and because I don't pander to the fans here, I've already accepted that this is not going to go my way because it never does, because it's fun. It's fun to vote against me because I'm anti-Casual fans.

And so I am taking this as an experience. I am very happy to be here hanging out with my two great friends, Jed and Mike and Casey. So three great friends. And whatever this may be, whether this is to protect my ego or my reputation or actual honesty, you can decide. I am so happy to be here just hanging out with you three guys no matter what the outcome of this is. So thank you for having me. and let's have a great time. This is just...

New Prince of positivity. Yeah, I mean, that was either like just a very positive start to the show or just a mighty first move in the chessboard of what is BTL. But let's get into this thing. Let's begin in a place. We don't start this program with very often,

gentlemen. One championship. We're starting with one championship. I can't remember if that's ever happened before. But let's talk about Demetius Johnson. The man goes out in X. exercises, some demons, speaking of redemption, got some vengeance on Adriana Marias, a stunning knockout in the fourth round of the main event of one on Amazon Prime One. I think that's the

title, but it happened this past Friday, and DJ has been showered with praise since, and rightfully so. So New York, Rick, you won the blind draw. What was your biggest takeaway with this win? And what have you learned the most since Friday night? Yeah, I've learned that I really don't know what to make of one's hydration testing and weight cutting principles. That's definitely something I learned because Adriano Marais, look, that's just bigger than Demetrius Johnson. So I'm not sure what to make of that. As far as the finish itself, I think we learned that Demetrius Johnson still got it, whatever it is. The man is still top of his game. The man is still an absolute savage. And yeah, that I think it would be interesting to see Demetrius Johnson

compete against today's fly weights in the UFC and, you know, what that would look like. But he said to Ariel that he doesn't have any interest in going down to 125 anymore, making that weight. And he considers himself much more in the class of the 135 pound guys. I think obviously if the competition was at flyweight and he did compete in the UFC, I think, you know, there might be ways to convince him. But yeah, I am interested in where Demetrius Johnson falls in the flyweight, you know, class across all organizations because he has proven that he's still there.

So and our site, MMAFighting.com, great website, as Jed would say, has voted him the number one flyweight in the world. So I agree with that. I concur even though I'm not on the voting panel. And yeah, it makes me long for Demetrius Johnson versus other flyweights, but he may not even be interested in that. I definitely want to go back to that part of it in a moment. but Jed, let's start with just the knockout and what you sort of learned, not just about Demetri Johnson,

but maybe how people view him since Friday night. I think we all just forgot. I think it's really that simple because he went to the place where careers go to die, which is one championship because nobody cares. But then one championship did this really smart thing. They became watchable by partnering with one of the biggest companies in the entire world.

and everybody has prime. And so it was very easy to watch that. If you had even a passing interest in combat sports, you probably knew if you're on this website, you know, Demetri's Johnson's fighting. And okay, well, it's Friday night. I got nothing else to do. Let's, oh, I'm already going through my TV apps.

Here's Amazon. Let's do the prime thing. Easy made it very digestible. And that was enough to remind everybody that, oh, yeah, I know that this dude, got robbed against Henry Sehudo in their rematch and he actually never stopped being the best flyweight in the world. But then he was fighting a bunch of dudes that don't have Wiki pages in an organization that

has an interesting bend on the truth. Let's just say that way. And so it's like, all right, whatever, man. You're not going to find a bigger RDR fan than I am, but I don't even have the balls to put him as the number one middleweight in the world, you know? Like, it's just sort of the fact of the fact of the. the matter of the competition in which you're competing. But then he comes out and a guy who knocked him out, a dude who is very obviously not a

flyweight because my eyeballs don't lie to me at least and comes out and, you know, overcomes a little adversity, has some struggles but still shows that he's got the juice, baby. And it was, I mean, for me, Rick talked about we put DJ at number one as a website. I am on the rankings panel. I didn't have him number one. And I just forgot. I just forgot what this dude's about. And DJ reminded me, it was like, oh, yeah, that dude's probably going to dummy up like

Davidson Vigorado if they fight. Like, maybe not. But I would put my money on DJ to win that fight or against anybody else. Even though I know he told Ariel he doesn't want to make that weight cut, he's still a flyweight in all the ways that realistically matter to me. And he just reminded everybody, yeah, I'm probably. actually the second or third best fighter of all time depending on personal rankings.

And don't forget about me just because I'm wallowing in this other org. Yeah. And just the rankings panel and everything about it because I am also on the panel. And as New York Rick talked about, DJ is back. I think this might be the first time

he's been the number one flyweight in the world since we've actually been on our rankings out there. Yeah. And this is just, I didn't put him at number one. one, and it's only because this is a very weird situation in total, because I didn't put Adriana Marias number one. I know there were a couple panelists. I know one in particular definitely did, but like I just couldn't put Adrian Marius. Like I'll put him in the rankings if everyone else is doing it because whatever, you jump off a bridge, you follow your buddies. But this, like, this guy's not

a flyweight. Like he's probably a featherweight for, for God's say. He looked like 30 pounds heavier than DJ in this fight. So like how, Jed, How are we going to be able to rank this guy moving forward? Like, I know we view him as a flyweight, but he wasn't a flyweight in this fight. He's essentially a Bannamweight. Like, should he be in the Bannamweight rankings? Truth be told, or is he just going to be in the flyweight rankings

until he retires from the sport? He is going to be a really weird case because we, not to peel back to curtain too far, we've been having some internal discussions on this matter ever since DJ basically blew up our rankings by saying, I'm not a flyweight. And when we were first putting these rankings together, I was adamantly opposed to counting the one championship weights as their, as their titled weight,

because that's not the weight they compete at. And I got overruled. Everybody in the panel was like, Jed, you're an idiot. DJ is actually a flyweight, even though he fights at 135, he's really a flyweight. He's just not cutting weight. and at the time I thought that that was wrong, but, you know, I'll go with the flow. I'll follow my buddies off the bridge, as you so eloquently put it, and I got overruled,

but it's probably not, we're probably going to adjust is what I assume is going to happen here, because, you know, I am not a rocket doctor. Do not get me wrong. I find it very difficult to believe that Adriana Marias, who was overweight when he initially weight in and fatal to hydration somehow lost more weight to make weight while also then passing hydration because that doesn't make sense unless he physically removed a body part then okay i guess that's where the weight goes but the way you cut weight is through hydration so i have a lot of questions about the shadowy uh whatever the hydration stuff is that one

has said and has been parroted a lot as like this is a great thing But I don't know if it's true or valid or real. And guys like Adriana Marius make me think, something a little fishy might be going on there. But ultimately, I don't really care because I never have cared. Because weight classes mean very little to me. It's just the eyeball test. And as far as my eyeballs go, we are probably just going to end up keeping ranking DJ

as the number one flyweight or at flyweight because you can't rank him at Bannonweight. He has nothing to base a ranking at Bannamweight off of. But this guy is very clearly one of the best fighters in the world. Your eyes aren't lying to you when you watch him compete. And so we all want to rank him somewhere. And so I think the answer is we're going to carve out an exception for DJ. But ultimately, you know, Adriana Marias may no longer end up being counted as a flyweight. Because that dude couldn't make 125 his life depended on it.

Yeah. So let's just say New York, Rick, I mean, the man said it himself, I'm not a flyweight. way anymore. I'm not cutting down to flyweight. And maybe there's a world that changes that he comes back to an organization, maybe the UFC, where they actually have a flyweight division. But right now, he is not a flyweight. So if you were to rank him at Bannamweight right now, is he a top five Bannamweight or where would you put him? Top five, top 10? What do you think? Before I answer that, can I just see how interesting it is that he gets this huge win. There are people who had Adriano Morais ranked as our top flyweight. And all the

conversation is DJ versus UFC guys. It does really kind of speak to what the power of the UFC is when it comes to branding and when it comes to like where the top fighters compete. And we're talking about DJ versus UFC bantam weights as opposed to like, oh, maybe there's other interesting challenges potentially for DJ at 1. Anyway, there's just something to think about there and to be said for that. Where would I rank them as a bantam weight? I'll tell you I'd have them.

I'd definitely have them in a top 15. that skill set. He is just so well-rounded. He is just so sharp. He is just so able to stick to a game plan. Combined with the natural gifts that he has, how fast he is, I'd have him somewhere in there, but man, that size would be too much to give up.

There are just guys in the 135-pound division that are as big as Adriana Marais and just look like their feather weights and would dwarf Demetrius. And it would be tough sledding against a lot of those guys. And it's not like DJ just came in there and steamrolled Morais. So I'd probably have him ranked, but it would be on the fringes.

It would be, you know, somewhere in the top 10 to 15 out of respect for his skill set and what he's able to do and his championship medal and his acumen. But physicality-wise, size difference, like if you just look at bantam weights, he's in a different weight class. He belongs in flyweight. I think that, you know, ultimately what Jed and the site arrived at, he is a flyweight, in my opinion and belongs there. I would have them ranked, but yeah,

I wouldn't take them against a lot of those guys. They are just way too big. All right, we'll move on. I don't want to talk about Bannonweight rankings with Jed because I don't want to set off another debate about Bannamweight and lightweight and all that stuff. But I don't have any of that. I will just say that it would be dope if he was Bannumweight

because then we get D.J. And that fight would rule. Yes. Now, there is one other debate that has gone. on since Friday and it happens every time either guy in the conversation does anything in combat sports. We bring this back up from almost four years ago, the trade. DJ to one for Ben Ascran. We hadn't seen anything like it before. We haven't seen anything like it since. But after this knockout, it was brought up on heck of a morning a lot. So I figured we could talk about it here. So New York,

I'll start with you. It's now September 1st, 2022. And we look back on this trade from almost four years ago. who won it? Was it the UFC getting Ascran and everything that came because of that? Or was it one getting one of the greatest fighters to ever do it? And well, he's still doing it and doing it pretty damn well. Is it a cop out to sit on the fence and say that both sides won? Is it a cop out to say that everybody benefited from that trade, that it was one of those rare trades where everybody got what they needed?

I don't think Ben Ascran was much value to won by that point. I think having somebody like Demetrius Johnson that you could throw on Amazon Prime for your debut show is a huge win for them, somebody that the world was paying attention to and going, oh, yeah, I forgot about that guy and now I've seen him again. If I'm doing it in measures, right? If I have to put degrees on it, I would say the UFC won more. I would definitely say that the UFC benefited more significantly. And as you laid out, it's not necessarily that they got Ben Ascran. It's that they got Ben Ascran, which then made Jorge Mazvedal, which then sold them a ton of pay. paperview subsequent to that. So it's all the fallout from the trade. Demetrius Johnson could have been languishing at the top the Flyweight division, but it never would have turned into pay-per-view numbers for them. It just would have continued to be what it was as great as he is.

There's just an unfortunate side effect of the size at Flyweight that he would not have been a pay-per-view draw. I would have not all suddenly shifted. They benefited big time from Jorge Mosvidal knocking up Ben Ascran in five seconds and then the subsequent rise of poor He Masvedal, but it all started there with that trade. And so I would say they won more. But man, that was not going, Ben Asker in one was not going to do them anymore from that point forward. So being able to get DJ on the back of that, I think was a huge win for them as well. But if I have to pick, I'm picking the UFC benefited more. Jed, do you agree with that? I definitely understand why people can see both sides of the argument

here but if you had to choose one you could look at it however you weigh you want you can look at it from a business perspective you can look at it as simple as one guy's still fighting and one guy is not still fighting what do you think who actually won this trade as of right now i don't think anyone won it because i agree largely with a ricky said right like he neither side is is mad about this trade if you offered them the same terms again they would do it a hundred both both parties to do it 100 times out of 100 because the UFC didn't really want to be in the DJ business anymore. Frankly, they probably didn't want to be in that business the entire time who was champion

because they sure didn't do anything at all to try and build him or promote him in a way that is commissert with him being the best fight on earth. So one got what they wanted out of this trade. They have one of the best fighters in the world. It is a guy who makes people take notice that they are at least a serious promotion in some regards, it gives them somebody to build some fight cards around, even if those fight cards aren't the biggest in mainstream popularity, et cetera. And everything Ricky said, the UFC got Ben Ascran who was a star, who they used to springboard

Jorge Mosvall into superstardom. I think if the UFC could redo it, they probably wouldn't have done the Mossvedal Ascran fight. They probably would have just thrown Ascran into a title fight after he beat Robbie Lawler. but I mean that's that's really splitting hairs there. I will say if you're going to, I mean, I don't think anybody won because I think both sides are happy. I will say I think the fans lost.

And I know that that's a really cliche, stupid thing to say. But God love DJ. And some of his fights have been fun. I don't tear at all about him taking on any of the other people in one. Like, right? And I'm sorry. that makes me a bad fan or whatever, but like, Tatsu Me's Wada. Like, I don't care about that fight.

That fight means nothing to me. And a third fight with Suhudo would have been incredible. It win or lose his next steps in the UFC would have been awesome. Like, if he loses to Suhudo and then Suhudo still does his whole thing and goes and barks to get a second belt, then DJ just reclaims the flyway title. Or if he beats it, then maybe. instead of Sohudo being the guy that faces Dillashaw, maybe we finally can do the DJ versus T.J fight.

Like there's, and then all the other things. Maybe he finally does move up to Bandaway and we can do Jose Aldo. We can do Piotrion. Like those are fights that can rule. Brandon Moreno, like who he is right now versus DJ, in rules. Those fights kick so much ass. And so we lose because we don't get them and we're never going to get them. I don't think the promotions care at all, frankly.

I think the only thing that happened is the promotions got things they wanted and the fans did not get the best fights we could possibly get, which kind of sucks. Eric Rick, do you have anything more to add? Yeah, can I just add it almost is irrelevant because we might have ended up here anyway. Like Demetrius Johnson with the way things were going with the UFC was not happy. And you can see it in the way he, if you watch an interview from when he was in the UFC and watch it now, he's happy to not be cutting down to flyweight. He's happy to be with one.

It could have ended that way anyway. This could have been inevitable where Demetrius Johnson fights out his contract, ends up somewhere else, is making tons of money, happy as can be. And Ben Ascran could have either retired, walked away, ended up back in the UFC after a certain amount of time. So we might have ended up here anyway. I think the universe kind of corrected itself. And ultimately, as we've said, nobody really won lost the trade. Everybody's happy with it. I mean, a lot of people did lose just so we're clear because if the trade never happens,

very real chance of Ben Askeran just stops fighting because that's where he was at the time. He's like, I'm just not going to fight anymore. And then they send him to the UFC. And if that happens, then Jake Paul isn't a thing. So that's, I mean, we all lose in because then we don't, influencer boxing exists because of this trade. And I don't think anybody talks about enough, frankly. this trade created influencer boxing so just recognize people that's all I'm saying it's a great that is a great point right there uh speaking of Jake Paul you're your best

for last baby talking about next but anyways you know congrats to DJ he's obviously happy he's making lots of money his stock has risen immensely it rightfully so but not just because of the win but even after Leon Edwards beat Kamar Usman DJ was getting some extra love from the fans talking about the record of consecutive title defenses and all that he's getting a little bit of extra shines. It's been a damn good week for Mighty Mouse. But let's head to the complete other side of the combat sports spectrum. The point for round one goes to,

it goes to Jed. He stole it at the end. That was an excellent point. You got to save your best stuff for last. You got to leave. It's like the way Robbie Lawler fought when he came back to the UFC and he was old. He would just fight at the start of the rounds and then at the end of the rounds to really make an impression on the judges.

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Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get a nice rank on. Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. So it was just brought up recently, and we talked about it a little bit last week because we did bring up Jake Paul, who has been teasing an announcement for a fight in October.

He was saying that he's going to fight a professional boxer, his management team saying he's going to be the underdog. And then multiple reports have surfaced since we confirm with people with knowledge of the situation that discussions are ongoing that a fight is being targeted between Jake Paul and the former longtime UFC middleweight champion Anderson Silva. Now, nothing official yet. I know these talks are very legit. They're serious.

And it seems like this could very well happen in a little over a month. Now, I know October 29th is a date that's being thrown out. But again, nothing official. So Jed, my man, you talked last week about being over the Jake Paul stuff. And this is something you are not alone in. You are not on an island here. But if this is the actual fight that happens, if this is the fight that is booked, and he boxes Anderson Silva, how do you react to this?

Are you back in? at least for this fight. Justin and I thought I was out, Mike. They pull me back in. This is the fight that should have happened the whole time. This is the fight everybody knew. It was obviously the fight that made the most sense from a Jake Paul's whole thing standpoint.

It's a clear level up in competition. I always had assumed he was trying to put this fight off because the way time works, time is linear. And Anderson Silva does not. get younger as time goes on. That's just a fact. So the further off he can push this, you used to see Floyd Mayweather love to do this trick a lot.

He super did this to Manny Pachia. He's like, the longer I can wait till Manny Pachial loses some of what he's got, that will be better for me. So let's just keep kicking that can down the road. Evidently, Jake has felt either he's really feeling himself or he believes that Anderson is old enough now. that time to strike while the iron is semi-warm, and hopefully we're going to get it. I have so many questions about what's going to happen in this fight that I am by definition

interested. One, because I will watch Anderson-Silva fight anybody. His boxing has been, we talked about it all last year. Anderson-Silva, improbably in boxing, became like one of the rare feel-good stories in combat sports, where this dude had been losing and losing and losing. And all it did was break all of our hearts to watch this great fall to father time. And then he's going to go box. And this is going to go horribly.

But it hasn't. It's going great. And I don't know if the clock's about to strike midnight on this man because Jake Paul is not a great boxer. But he is young. He has some ability at it. And he's not 50 years old or whatever the hell Anderson is at this point. And you don't see 50-year-old people excel in combat sports all that often. So I have a ton of questions.

I will almost certainly be watching this either professionally or personally. And it makes all the sense in the world and just one-time dealer. I'm asking one-time dealer, give Anderson Silver the strength. I don't care if it's gas station pills or whatever it is. Give that man the strength to do the thing that needs to be done and get one more victory to ride out on. Eric, your reaction to this potential fight. Are you in on this? Like even if you, I mean, you're probably going to be working it,

but even if you don't have to work, is this something that you were going to plop down some money to watch regardless? Yeah, I'm in on this fight. I've been in on this fight. Jake Paul in this effort to become a boxer, I think has made very few missteps. The one misstep I believe he has made was, and maybe this is him, maybe this is its team.

They've had a fixation on beating a quote-unquote real boxer. And you see this in the bookings of Hasim Rahman Jr. And you see this in the bookings of Tommy Fury to beat a quote-unquote real boxer. To me, it's not necessary. I think there's this kind of. And you hear Dana White talking about this. He should fight somebody real. You hear a lot of people talking about this.

If Jake Paul was to go in there and knock out Tommy Fury or if Jake Paul was to go in there and knock out Hasim Rahman Jr., nobody would give him credit. It doesn't matter if they were a real boxer, a fake boxer, something adjacent to that. It does not matter at all. They would be looking for a reason to hate on Jake Paul. So I've always thought kind of testing those waters and wasting that time, looking to book fights with those guys was a misstep. His only misstep so far.

Now, the universe has corrected itself and righted itself. This has always been the fight to make. It's going to be the most exciting fight. I don't care how many people watch Love Island because none of them are watching a fight with Tommy Fury. Tommy Fury stinks and nobody wants to watch him fight. Anderson Silva is a legend in the sport of MMA, is a legend in combat sports and somebody that people will tune in to watch fight because he has created magic on our televisions for many years. Jake Paul, Anderson Silva, is the fight, has always been the fight. And quite frankly, I think we wasted a lot of time getting to

it. Maybe intentionally, as Jed laid out, I kind of like that theory, maybe intentionally, but the universe has right it itself. I'm very zen about the whole thing. thing. I'm happy to be here and I will be watching. I know we work for a website called MMAFighting.com, so maybe we're biased in a sense, but Eric, here is a great website. It's a great website. Best website in the world. Now, does this fight do more for Anderson Silva or Jake Paul in your opinion? Like maybe the right answer is based on the result, but looking at it now, it's not even official yet, but we feel like there's a very good chance this happens. So on paper, the idea, the build, et cetera, like who gets? You,

gets more of the rub with just the idea of this fight now that we're close to it. Yeah, it's going to be Jake because he needs a name like this, right? Jake's intention at this point is just to keep collecting names. And I don't want to say another term, but basically he needs to keep putting names on the resume. He needs to keep putting names on his ledger. For Anderson Silva, it kind of depends on what's next, right? Like if Anderson Silva can parlay this into something even bigger, then it could potentially

be Silva. but it seems to me, and it's always kind of been the story of Anderson Silva's career, is kind of, he's a little bit mysterious. He kind of just like hangs around the fringes and like, this may be a fight where he takes a Jake Paul fight, wins it and then fights somebody, nobody cares about it or has ever heard of. He's a little bit wacky and weird in that way. There's a martial arts Bushito element to it as well. So it really, like, I just don't see Anderson Silva having the cachet or even the intention

and motivation to capitalize on this, if that makes sense. I don't know what would be next for him, but I don't think it would be something he'd be able to build. Whereas for Jake Paul, if he's able to claim Anderson Silva and he's able to put that name on his resume, then you start getting into territory where it's like, hey, you know, what's Connor McGregor doing? What's Floyd Mayweather doing? You start to put yourself in that echelon where you can start calling for those and people and they won't laugh you out of the building. And now you have some names on your resume. So I think Jake Paul has a lot more to gain potentially from this fight. I don't think Anderson Silva necessarily has the path or the mechanism to kind of benefit from a win here.

It will be nice. And I think there will be a lot of people rooting for it. But I don't know what he can make of it as opposed to what Jake Paul can make of it. Who, Jed, do you think, needs to win this one more? Because, you know, Eric kind of laid it out. Pause of the situation, most have been saying all along that even with the talks of this fight, if he fights Anderson Silva, he'll lose. So there's almost like a weird built-in. expectation, especially amongst the

MA community that Anderson-Silville will win this fight, and maybe that impacts future fights for Jake. Of course, Nate Diaz is about to fight his deal next weekend, but Anderson has looked great boxing. He's been a feel-good story, like you said, and he's enjoying himself, but losing to Jake Paul in a boxing match,

that stink doesn't ever go away. Just ask Ben Ascgren, ask Tyrod Woodley. So, maybe not for future sake, in terms of, like, who the next opponent's going to be, but who in Europe opinion needs to win this fight more. Is it Jake Paul or Anderson Silva?

Neither of them. Neither of them need to win this. Andrews Silva's 50 damn years old, Mike. He's 50. He's supposed to lose to the 20-year-old. Like, if he goes out and loses, nothing changes for him. He may be, I will say, I agree with a lot of what Eric said. I think that there is a world where if Anderson Silva wins this fight, the next thing

he does is box Mike Tyson. Like that is the thing that makes sense to me, is that he can make that one happen. And he could have probably maybe made that happen anyway even without beating Jake Paul just so long as he didn't lose. But if he loses, the Tyson fights probably gone off the table. But I think that is, I mean, we tune in to watch that Carnival. Like that's for sure a thing that people would care about. So he can get that.

But if he loses, he's a 50-year-old dude who was supposed to be done fighting a long time ago. had this really fun second act that we, I mean, really a fourth act, I guess, that we didn't anticipate. And now it's, okay, well, you've got a lot of money. You're one of the greatest of all time in your sport. You're going to be a. Okay, buddy. Go on and prosper. Watch your son embark on his own fight journey, coach it, whatever you want to do.

It's fine. Jay Paul is 27-year-old millionaire, like multi-multe, multi-millionaire. He going to be just fine if you lose this fight. And honestly, he is now insulated from a loss. Even losing to a 50-year-old dude is a tough hang. But influencer boxing is here. It's like real. I don't know how long it's going to be here and be real.

But if Jake Paul lose, he could just go fight KSI like that. And that will do more pay-per-views than anything else we covered that year. Bet, like bet that. So he going to be, nobody needs this. It is probably, it is better for Jake Paul to win. virtue of where he is at in his age because he has more other opportunities afterwards, but it does not matter at all if either these men lose. They're going to be totally okay because Ney Diaz will still box Jake Paul if he loses.

Connor McGregor will still box Jake Paul if he loses. He going to still get the big bags. It just, it doesn't, there are no stakes to this, only intrigue. All right. Well, we'll move on because I know how, I mean, I know how much everybody's, loves Jake Paul talk on the show, but I feel we'll move on. We'll save it for another time. We'll get you to that next thing. When I'm going to talk about KSI? Two fights in one night. Two fights in one night, Mike. Who else is doing that? I don't know. Maybe Salt Pocky can have two

fights at one night. That dude can throw a little bit. Salt Poppy had some hands. Dean the Great, who was on the undercard. That guy is going to tool up anybody in the influence. Like, that guy actually looked like he was maybe a close. level boxer. Like he had, he had some juice. So he would dust up KSI if they, if they were the same weight class.

But, you know, I'm all in on influencer boxing. I've decided, I don't know who any of these frigging people are, but I don't care. I'm just going to be in on it. Let's do it.

Well, we got more next Saturday, the same day as UFC 279. And we're going to see Lavian Bell and freaking Adrian Peterson box each other on that social gloves card. But let's head back to the UFC. Let's go back to the UFC.

We'll do that next, but the point for round two goes to consistency start to finish New York Rick on the board. One to one. Good stuff. It's usually never a good thing. Usually the trigger for me on giving points is when a panelist says, I agree with everything or almost everything that opponent B said. He went first and he said the right things. What am I supposed to do? Why?

Well, there you go. Hey, listen, you're the guy who can. argue anything. So it's one to one. You're not hitting and shut out or anything like that. But let's talk about the UFC because they didn't have an event last weekend. They are heading to Paris, France for the first time, early day MMA, by the way, which scratches me right where I hitch. The main event, a big one in the heavyweight division, Cyril Gahn, first fight since the title lost to Francis and Ganoo, hometown fight for Mr. Gahn taking on the surging, ever popular, Taito Ivasa. So New York, Rick, we will begin with you.

Your thoughts on this main event, the betting lines, and how you've seen sort of the MMA community react to this one around 48 hours or so away from this thing. Yeah, I'm very intrigued in the main event. I think we could be looking at a tie to Ivasa title opportunity, which to me just feels good. It feels right. It's kind of like when we were staring down the barrel of the multiple Derek Lewis

title opportunities. I was not sure that we'd ever get there. And then when we did, I was so happy that it happened. regardless of result. So yeah, I think we are looking at a potential TIE 2ivasa title earning opportunity. I definitely, you know, you asked about the betting lines. I don't think the betting lines are right on this one, to be honest.

This is a dog or pass situation for me. I think Ty is a game and live underdog in this one. I have to admit, I'm probably lower. I'm not as high on Serul Gan as most. I think his lack of power in a division that requires power is going to come back to harm. him and hurt him. I think it happened in the Francis and Kanu fight, although that played out a little more

as a grappling match than a striking battle as we probably expected. But I just think if you are a heavyweight who doesn't have the stopping power to keep people off you and your biggest weapon is your cardio, you're going to have a lot of success. But there's just going to be some guys like Tai Tui Vasa and like Derek Lewis who every once in a while

walk right into your mug and hit you with something that puts you down. And I think there's an opportunity for Taitoivasa to do just that here. Conventional wisdom would say that Cyril Gahn plays a safe game, stays on the outside, tires them out, and then comes on in later rounds and finishes Tai Tuivasa. I think Ty is going to get it done.

I'll go out on the limb and say, I think Ty is going to be able to get it done. But I'm a big fan of this matchup. I'm interested to see how it plays out. And I think the stakes are extremely high. And also, a win for Cyril here feels significant, right? Like in the UFC's debut in France, he'll get the treatment that, that he's back and he's the next destroyer. And you can very easily on the back of that sell Cyrilgan walking into a next title opportunity

or even another fight against another top contender should that be the case. But it will feel very significant for Seraghan. And if it's tied to Ivasa, he shocks the world. I think that's significant as well. So a lot on the line here, but I don't necessarily agree with kind of the betting line at the moment. The betting line, according to our friends at draft kings, use the promo code the MMA hour and get some bonus stuff. But Cyril Gahn, minus 520 favorite

tied to Ivasa, the underdog coming back at plus 410. And Jed, I'm sure you and Connor discuss this at length on No Bet's Bard. Great podcast. Go check that out on the NBA Fighting Podcasting. But let's talk about it here. What's your reaction to the fight? What kind of questions do you have?

How intrigued are you by this matchup? You know, I know you hate this, Mike, but I got to say, I agree with Rick, because the betting lines are way off. Cyril Gahn should be a minus 1,000 favorite. He's going to beat the shit out of time to us. Like, I don't know what we're doing here, man. Like, this is, this is an awful matchmaking as far as I'm concerned.

I know you hate it, Mike. We talked about it before. This is, I think this is the worst style matchup you can give tie in the entire, like maybe Curtis Blades is worse because it's Curtis plates. But like there is, this is what Cyril Gond does. does. Like we have seen him fight this fight. Almost every UFC fight he's had. Like Derek Lewis and Taiju Avazza are very, very similar fighters, you know? Chirzino Rosenstrike, very similar. Even late stage JDS, pretty working in the same ballpark. And Francis Inganu, he was beating Francis

Singano, he just couldn't stop a takedown. Like, for all Rick wants to talk about his lack of power, and I'm not saying he lack, I don't think he lacks power. I think he just actively does not care to flash it until the moment when he really smells blood, which maybe is a dangerous game in the world of heavyweights. I think he is just in total control of every striking situation because that is absolutely what has happened. For instance, Inganu, knee injury, absolutely.

let's give credit where it is. His knee was not not working, but he came up on so much arrogance gone. Gone was just taking him to school. He was the bus driver, load him up, I'm going to teach you how this kickboxing thing works. And then the only reason Inganu won is because he's like, all right, well, I'm going to tackle you and you can't stop me doing that.

And it was great adjustment by Ngano. But come on, come on. Ty's not doing that. Ty's just going to try and get up in his chili and he's not going to be able to because Gahn's footwork is far too good. He's just going to dance around him pot-shotting him and keep coming. Maybe Gond even takes Ty down because he has a little bit of offensive grappling of his own. And then that happens.

But mostly I just think this is going to be a Matador in the bowl. And this will go on as long as Tye's durability holds up. He's super durable. But as it goes on, If he gets reckless, then he's going to get clipped and killed. Like, he is just going to get leg kicked, leg kick, leg kick, gets way too reckless, then he's going to get shot. I genuinely, outside of a miracle haymaker,

I have no idea how Taito Yvasa wins this fight because Seorgan is levels above him in the striking realm. So New York, Rick, Jed mentioned the stakes in this fight. So I'm curious to get your idea of what is that stake here, because to me, this is a market. win for Cyril Gan. He has to win. His future is certainly bright. But right now, the way this heavyweight division is shaping up with all the unknowns and all the uncertainty, you can't really take too many back steps if you're a guy like Cyril Gan. Plus, you're doing it at home. They're

basically built this card in Paris around you. And for Tai Tuivasa, it's not house money, but it kind of is considering the breakdown you just had and how people look at this one on paper. Just look at the freaking betting odds. So let's go back to Jed here real quick. But a win for Tuvasa, Jed, if he can get this done, he's in a real interesting spot. So what is on the line here for both of these guys? See, I disagree with what you just said to them. I think Ty is the one who can't afford to take a backward step. Because let's all be honest what Ty Tuivasa is.

He's really fun. We love him. God, we love him. He's not the best heavyweight in the world. He's not probably actually even one of the five best. But he finds himself in that position because of the status Derek Lewis held. But if you look, and we talked about it. of no-bets bar.

You don't spend too much time looking at Ty's current win-street because it is aged about as well as milk. Derek Lewis, Augusto Sakai, Greg Hardy, Harry Hunsucker, Stefan Strove. Three of those gentlemen are no longer in the UFC. Derek Lewis has lost, God knows how many in a row. And Augusto Sakai is freaking Augusto Sakai, man. That is not the win streak of a guy who is one of the five best heavywits in the world. So any step backwards,

It's like sliding down a mountain. He is going to have to climb his way back up there. And I don't know, frankly, he has the tools to do it. Zero gone is very young, very early in his MMA development. If you lose this here, I would be astonished, as I said. But I see a clear path for him to put things together and get the wins to get back here. That's why I hate this fight. Because I think a loss removes tie as a title contender.

And I don't, I think the window for him to be that is so narrow, we should be jumping on it. because he is fun because he's a fan favorite. Like that's how you should be promoting is to get this guy who people love into that high leverage situation, whereas people don't feel that way about Sierra God. So for me, I think the winner of this is unfortunately just in the mix because heavyweight is so backlogged because they're trying to do the Jones

Depe thing because no one knows where I'm gone who's going because Curtis Blades is still looming. The winner of this is probably going to have to fight Curtis Blades ultimately for a number one contenders match against either the interim champion who will be promoted or the winner of that fictional interim championship versus Francis Ngano way down the line. So it's unfortunate with the backlog,

but that's why I hate this fight for Tuivasa. Yeah, if that interim fight even happens, because the longer time goes, if you're John Jones, you might as well just wait to fight Francis, wait two more months and fight Francis. If Francis resigns, I will say that if Tai Tuivasa wins this fight,

I don't really care what your stupid plans are about whatever. Book that dude against John Jones for the interim type. Like, who gives a crap about Stepe? Tie versus John Jones. You want John to have the belt anyway. Clearly, that's what the goal is. Tie Tuva, John Jones is a thousand percent to fight if Ty pulls this off. Yeah.

I mean, Eric, I mean, for Cyril, like, if he wins, he's fighting, he's fighting Curtis Blitz. It's like, we know where this is going. But if Ty wins, I mean, we could just stop. this whole heavyweight Grand Prix conversation and just whatever Tai Tui Vasa does next, a title needs to be attached to it, right? Like interim, whether it's for the for the real belt, depending on how timelines shape up. Tai Tivasa, if he beats Zero Gone, his next fight has to be for a championship, right?

100%. And let me just say not if, but when Taito Ivasa wins, his next fight will be for a championship. Let me just say one thing. I disagree with Jed for the first time in this show for a little bit. And that's on the basis of, I don't think this is Tai Tuivasa's last opportunity. And I'll cite precedent here. I used to think like that. Then I saw Derek Lewis get two title shots.

So to me, what I've noticed and what I've been seeing in UFC, the meritocracy has died a long time ago. We can all acknowledge that. Tai Tuivasa has a style of knocking people out. And I think you've eloquently pointed to the resume that it's not great fighters. but, and let's be honest, heavyweight's not great fighters, period. If he can string together. Yeah, if he strings together three in a row, I think he's back here again. So I don't think the stakes are very high for Ty.

Honestly, I really do think this is a bit of a house money thing. I think it's like if I can get this done one more time, yeah, I'm knocking on the door and I have a title shot. If I don't, let me knock out three more dudes and get right back. I think they're more willing, the UFC as a promotion, are more willing to put guys like Derek Lewis and Tai Tui of Austin. into title fights, then they are Cyril gone, quite frankly. Because the problem with Cyril Gan is, he's good enough to beat everybody. But once you have him as your champion and he's point fighting guys to 50, 45 decisions, is that the guy you want holding your belt?

Is that the guy you want fighting for your title opportunities? He's not tied to Ivasa. He's not the guy that you shoehorn into the opportunity. So I think the stakes are pretty high for Cyril from the perspective that like, if he has to build back, he's going to have to build back and take the long road. whereas a guy like Ty, a guy like Derek Lewis, the fans want it so desperately that you just knock a few guys out and you're right back there.

So I think there's stakes from both sides. I think there's an opportunity for both guys here. But I will say, I don't think that this is the end of Tai Tui Vasa by any means. I don't think this is that one magic run because we've seen it before. Like this is Derek Lewis 2.0. If you can put a few together,

you're right back there. But to answer the original question, when Tai Taito Ivasa wins, this, yes, you have to do a Tai Tui Vasa title fight. What's more fun than that? And the build between him and John Jones has already started. It's kind of hilarious. The half respect, half like competitive juices flowing exchanges that they've had in the DMs and things like that, I'd be very interested in Tai Tui Vasa versus John Jones. Scrap the steep stuff. Let's stop waiting and let's get John Jones in the Octagon at heavyweight. And there's no better opponent than Taito Ivasa. Let's just

get that done. Let me very briefly counter, Rick, just because I won't stand for this slander on Derek Lewis, who's not a great fighter, but just so we're clear, his two title fights came. The first one, he beat Marcin Tabura, Francis Inganu, and Alexander Volkov. Those are three currently top 10 heavyweights. That's an entirely justified title fight. The second one, Blago Evenovilier Latifia Alexi Olenik, those are middling, still I would say better than Ty's current win streak, frankly, but middling.

But he also then knocked out Curtis Blades. And so we got an interim title fight. Those are far more justifiable than Ty beating Stefan Stroove or whatever. So like, I'm not saying he can't do it, but he has yet, outside of Derek Lewis, I haven't seen him beat anybody who's good. I've seen him beat Harry Huntsucker. And that's, I need to see more. completely fair counter

this would be the Curtis blades right if he gets Cyril gone if he gets Cyril gone this would be the Curtis blades in that in that run if he beats if he beats Cyril gone he give like a real legitimate I don't screw the John Jones thing do Toie Vasa versus Inganu

Like if he beats gone I legitimately I'm in on that fight That would be fun as hell Because like maybe Tyd Chin Just can't be broken By Ngon who's mega punching And then then all bets are off, baby.

Anything can happen. See, but you see this energy? This is the difference. The energy around talking about Taitui Vasa versus Cyril Ghan. People want this. I love Cyril Gond. I know that I'm a weirdo,

but I love Sondon. I think you're on an island there. I think he's the best heavyweight in the world. I know he lost a friend Sengon. He's maybe not right now, but in two years I think he's the best heavyweight in the world. Also, Curtis Blades is probably the best heavyweight in the world, if we're being honest.

But nobody cares about that. Let's move on. I think if you're Stepe Mietchich, you are actively a Cyril Gahn fan on Saturday, because I know you love this. If Tai Tivasa wins, Steepai just loses tremendously. And I'm sure, Jed, you will come on the post-fight show and be very sad about that.

I got to say, I respect Stepe's plan of never fighting because it's hard to lose momentum if you just never compete. There's no momentum to lose or gain if you just constantly don't fight. Well, let's, before those two heavyweights fight, there's going to be a bunch of other fights. So that's what we're going to talk about.

Next, the point for round three goes to just to peel back the curtain. Points are usually given for how well you present your argument. I don't technically give points that often for agreeing with somebody, but I agree wholeheartedly with New York Rick. And that's why he gets the point. It's two to one there. Except for he is the one who said that this is good matchmaking. and I know you hate this, Mike.

I know you hate this. I don't like the matchmaking, but it's actually not, like at first I hated it, but it's not all that horrendous in the long game. Because even if Ty goes out there and loses a decision

or gets stopped late or something, he gets still headline fight nightmate events. He's still going to be featured on main cards. He's still going to be presented as a star and people are still going to want to see him. So the loss stinks, but at the end of the day, I don't think it really crushes him that much.

And like Rick said, it goes out there. there and gets a couple knockouts. He's a fresh matchup for all these guys. So there you go. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list?

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Cepora. Summer Fridays, Rare Beauty, way, Cifora Collection, and other part of But, procure you these formats, mini, regrouped for a better quality price, on link on C4A.C or in magazine. But let's go to the rest of the card. And Jed, I want to start with you.

I'm very excited about this, because you're the guy I usually go to in these types of situations. Is this UFC Paris card on Saturday? One that you're going to tell your millions upon millions of fans to give up a Saturday for and watch start to finish. No.

So there's some good things going on here. Start with the positives. It's a debut in Paris. It's a daytime card. Love that. But I will be totally honest, because I always am. You know me, Mike.

Very transparent. If this weren't my job and I weren't working Saturday, I probably would not be, I might be having it on, but I don't know if you've heard, Mike, college football starts this weekend. And I also don't know if you've heard, there's a little team called the Georgia Bulldogs

who are the defending national champions. And they will be playing Oregon. right during the middle of this card so I can't tell people that this is what they should watch when I might not be watching it if I weren't working it because of that and especially now with football back a lot of people got a lot of other things to be watching that being said

this card is if probably better than next weekend's pay-per-view which is a stunning condemnation of that card but there are a couple of really good fights on this card there are some that I don't care about and there are some weirdos in here Also, the card placement. I know Casey is big on card placement.

I have no idea what the hell they were doing with some of these fights being here, but whatever. But the main event is a relevant good heavyweight fight. And it might not even be bad by heavyweight standards. So that's dope. The co-made event rules. We haven't talked about it at all, but

Marvin Vittori versus Robert Whitaker. That's for the title of second best middle weight in the world functionally. I know Alex Paheta exists. but these are the two proven middleweight commodities. That fight's a great fight. There's some other fights here that are weird, but John McDessie, Nazar at Hawk Pras,

probably going to be really fun. Charles Dordane, Nathaniel Wood, is going to be insane. Like, that fight is going to rule. And then there are some fights on the undercard that are okay. So it is not a high level. If I'm doing the AK scoring, it's a 7.4 or something like that. Totally good enough. If you've got nothing else going on on Saturday,

fire it up. watch it um especially the top top fights really good stuff there but there is a lot of if this still had the minon feuro fight on it um be it against jukagin or jessigand george or i were back on chikagin now i think i think that would really give this card a boost because i think it does need one more marquee fight to it but still a solid enough card you know worth a watch rickie what's seven point four where are you at zero nothing without Cedric Dumei, this card is nothing. I am not interested at all.

I just talk to the big game about. You think Ty DeVos is about to pull off the biggest asset of the year and you don't give a shit about this card? I just sold that main event better than anybody's going to sell it and I love that main event. But the fact that it's happening on this cursed card without Cedric Dume Bay, zero. I cannot. By his absent, by Cedric the best Dune Bay's absence, I cannot support a UFC fight card in France happening without Cedric Dune Bay. I just can't. I'm sorry.

I'm planting my flag here and it may cost me and maybe I'm not making a great compelling argument for it. But Cedric the best Dune Bay was the thing that I was most interested in on this entire card. And the fact that we are not getting it and when we're potentially looking at Cedric Dume Bay to be fighting high-level competition is still murky and up in the air. I am displeased, unsatisfied, frankly outraged, and I'm scoring this as zero without Cedric the best doom bay. I said what I said. Wow. Well, I can't leave you like that because when we talk about stakes of fights, they usually riles you back up. So let's talk about the co-main event, New York, Rick. Whitaker Vittory. Jed mentioned it's a battle for number two, which I completely agree with.

but I also have to say this might be the most under the radar fight of the entire year because nobody is talking about this fight. We're talking about Paris. We're talking about the main event, other mentions of other fights, but very little talk about this one. This one just kind of sprung up on people in a lot of ways. And we talked about main event stakes and that got you riled up. But this fight, like we have Whitaker who is talking about maybe going up to 205.

We have Marvin Vittory who just, like Whitaker has lost to the current champion twice, what is actually at stake here outside of just being the number two middleweight in the world, New York, Rick? Yeah, I'll say one thing. Let me just address why I think potentially this is flying under the radar a little bit. And I think it's kind of an unusual placement, right? Like, this to me feels like either a fight night headliner

or a co-man on a pay-per-view, right? It's very odd that this is happening on the co-main of a fight night. like this fight just feels too significant and too important and between two guys who are just too good and too highly ranked. So it just feels odd. I think most people might not even know that a fight of this caliber and quality is happening in the co-main of a fight night. That to me is kind of where it gets lost a little bit in the shuffle because quite frankly,

this is a better fight night headliner than half the fight nights they're already doing. So I'm not sure what the reasoning for that is. Timing must be to blame for it. but I think it's just because of where it is placed, people may be overlooking it. As far as the fight itself, I think there is a little bit of a lack of stakes just from the perspective that like, as long as Israel-A-Sanya's champion, I can't see Robert Werdiger getting another crack. I would love to.

I'm an advocate, and I've long been an advocate for give me the two best fighters in a weight class and let them fight a hundred times. I've said it, I believe on this show, and definitely on the MMA hour, Davis and Figuero, versus Brandon Moreno, run it back 100 times. I really don't care. I am game to see it as many times as they're willing to do it. Robert Whitaker versus Israel-Aisanya, do it 100 times. I'm good with that.

Those are the two best middleweights in the world, and I'm happy to see it that many times. So the lack of stakes, I think, comes into play as well with Robert Whitaker. I don't think knocking on the door of a title shot anytime soon. He's going to kind of have to take the long road back to potential title opportunity. Obviously, if Paheia can get it done, then there's, then there's a clear road back. And for Marvin Vittori,

are you interested in seeing him versus Israel-A-Sanya again? Less so, even. So there's really not a lot on the line here. It's kind of like a number one contender fight without actually being for number one contendership unless Alex can win. But as far as the matchup itself,

I'm a big Robert Whitaker fan, believe in his skill set, think that he's going to have the tools to neutralize Marvin Vittory. But this is one of the tougher matchups for most fighters in the division. Marvin Vittori just, he's meat and potatoes, but he does it very well,

and he mixes everything well together. So I could see him having success, but I truly believe that it's, if I'm looking at the middleweight division, I believe that it's Israel, Asana, Robert Whitaker, and then everybody else. So I think he'll be able to prove that on Saturday night.

But yeah, it's a tough one and an odd one, but I definitely think there's still some intrigue to. Jed, what's at stake here in this number two contenders fight outside of just the number two contendership? Oh, that's it. Nothing's at stake. Neither these two dudes are getting a title fight. Because even if Bejah wins,

and maybe they don't run Izzy back just because, but I think the UFC probably wouldn't care. They probably just run Izzy right back. Yeah, I don't. These guys are just fighting for the title of, we'd be that dude but for Izzy. And that's okay. I will answer the other part of this,

which is why no one's talking about this. Because Marvin Vittory. as do you do you know two facts about marvin vittory other than that his his chin cannot be broken by man or god and that he is a functional square like you can't like he's he's just he's not interesting he's not an interesting fighter or person and i love marvin vortory because he's so uninter he's the i i don't remember if it was this i think it was on btel maybe it was somewhere else i called him the middle weightiest middle

weight that's ever middle weighted because he is. His game is meat and potatoes, as Rick said, but it is a hearty meat and potatoes where he just comes forward. You can't knock him out. So it just, like, he would suck to fight. There are a lot of, like,

it would suck to fight any professional fighter because I am not as good at fighting as him. But like, if I was, he would just be the kind of guy that would be miserable to fight because he is always going to be in your freaking grill and you can't knock him out. Like, did at any point in the, what is it now, combined 40 minutes that Israel Adisina fought him,

did it look like Izzy had fun at any point during that fight? No, he was just hitting him, hitting him. Shit, I'm up against the fence against this dude just holding me. This sucks. Herb, get him off me. Hit him, hit him. I am hitting the crap out of this dude, and he just keeps coming. He is exhausting.

And so I, I too believe that Robert Whitaker is. a better fighter. And if I'm just picking it straight up, I'm going to pick Robert to win this fight. But like a lot of good fighters have been broken by just the, like the Homer Simpson relentlessness of Marvin Vittory. And like, it wouldn't at all surprise me if he just, because we saw it. We saw it the other weekend, Mike. You don't have to score takedowns.

I said this on no-butts part. You don't have to complete takedowns to win fights. apparently you can just hold a man's leg against the fence, and then they're going to give you that. Oh, he won because he did nothing, but he held him against the fence for 15 minutes, looking at you, Rob Valshvili. And so Martin could absolutely do that to Robert Whitaker

because Robert can't knock him out. So I said, I don't know about the part. You give me a baseball bat and a shotgun, and I can't get Vittori out of there. And so, like, we're going to have 15 minutes of something, but it's probably, even if Bobby Knuckles wins, not going to be that fun because he's just going to be on his bike and just hitting him and moving but it's a great fight's high level mixed martial arts as Jose young likes to say

and so I'm here for it but I totally know why nobody's talking about this fight wow well let's move on let's move on after that I mean I think we know where this point is going because no one has sold Marvin Vittori better in the history of his career than what Jed Bishu just did so we'll play the winner we'll play the drum roll just for just for effect, go ahead. Jed gets the point. Just tremendous stuff right there. That is how you

define Marvin Vittoria as a fighter. So that means they're going to the knocker round. We're going to ask one question. Same question for both gentlemen. Each will have one minute to answer. We don't have Brian Campbell here, so we're not going to go two minutes or longer like he did. Love you, B.C.

But Jed, you are the guy. And by the way, this is the question we were going, I was going to ask last week because people been asking me about it over and over again. So I'm going to bring it up here because Jed and BC got into a different debate about weight classes and which one was better. So we had to continue that ongoing beef. So Jed, what do you want to do here?

Do you want to go first? Do you want to set the table, if you will? Or do you want to pass this over to New York, Rick? I will pass it on over. All right, New York, Rick. This has been a question that changes all the time. Everyone's answers continue to change. we have it's not just the UFC as fans know there are multiple promotions out there and every year

every time a company has an event whether it be successful or not this question always comes up so I'm just going to go ahead and throw it out there UFC's number one clearly who is the number two clear-cut MMA promotion in the world right now one minute on the clock your time starts now I love this question because I'm a firm believer in one specific answer for this question. And that answer is the PFL. And the reason is because they're one of the only organizations, if not the only organization, that's doing something that's not UFC light. It's not same type of promotion with the exact same path to a title shot with the exact same form and way that people earn opportunities except without the roster that the UFC has. And it's the reason we tune most of them out.

Now, if you're going to ask me, like, who's drawing the most eyeballs? I really don't know. I think it's probably negligible and insignificant between all of them. But I think PFL is doing the best job of doing something completely different than the UFC with the tournament, doing something completely different with the fighters that they're targeting and type of money that they're willing to spend on talent. And, yeah, it really comes down to because they are a product that is complementary and secondary to, what the U.S.C. is offering, and everybody else is just an imitation. And quite frankly, not that good. All right. New Yorker, sitting with the PFL. And, Jed, I love this question because,

I mean, you could, at different points, you could, you could make a compelling case for all of them. And every time they get a little momentum, they shoot themselves in the foot. And then they fall backwards. And then another one comes. And then they do the same thing. And on and on we go. It's a never-ending cycle. But this is basically the bar of Vittoy, Robert Whitaker. fight of promotions. Like who is the actual number two promotions? So we have PFL for New York Rick. Maybe you agree with him. There's Bellator. There's one. There's others as well. So who is it, Jed? Who's the number two promotion? Your time starts now. So this question really comes down to what, what are the criteria, right? Because

maybe personally, I might say I like the PFL more for some of the reasons that Rick elucidated. Also, they have some fighters I'm compelled by. But I I think they're probably not the number two by most metrics. You know, if you're talking about who puts on the best show, it's KSW, baby. Like they are, they put on a better show than UFC half the time like that. If that's all I'm ranking on, it's that. You're talking about who gets the most viewers? One championship gets a billion viewers, Mike.

I don't think we can underestimate that they're actually the top MMA promotion in the world for viewership. You're talking about traffic, the interest that's driven. BKFC by far outstrips everybody as far as what the comment. in Maine is interested in. But for me, the answer I think just sort of how it is still a default answer to Bellator because I'm talking about high level mixed martial arts. And though I think Bellator does almost everything wrong all the time, you look at MMAfighting.com, great website, all our rankings. Belator has the most other ranked fighters than aren't UFC fighters because they have the most best talent that's not the UFC. Well, there you go. And luckily, I meant this is a

Slack channel discussion, but the way Bellator has promoted this Danny Sabatello, Rafian Stotz fight, has been really interesting because they went on the MA hour and just not out of the park. And then we got 14 more face-to-faces. Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? And the fight isn't happening like this week. It's okay to do a bunch of face-to-faces, but just do them for the next three months like

there. Like I said, everything they do is bad and they should be better at it. I feel like that works in my favor, but I'm not going to say anything. Well, we shall see. It is luckily not up to you, New York, Rick, or you, Jed Bishu, or even I, or even Casey, who's the man who's going to be reading the decision, is up to you, the peeps, the viewers. Go into the poll right now, vote on who you think is going to win this battle between Jed Mishu and New York Rick. As far as upcoming programming for M.A. fighting.

Great website. Got you, Jed. You can go on to the podcast network right now and listen to No Betz Bar. Damn They Were Good is going to be coming soon, I believe. Do we know when that's going to drop, Jed? That is coming this afternoon. It won't be called Damn They Were Good.

It will be called something very similar. Oh, fair enough. Fair enough. So stay tuned for that. I'm working on a fun feature as well. Nothing about UFC 151 was good, Mike, so I can't call it. Dan, they were good. I cannot wait to see what you titled this.

I think I have an idea, but we will find out later on this afternoon when it drops. We will have a preview show tomorrow for UFC Paris at noon Eastern, which I'm very excited about. AK will be on way-in duty super early in the morning so you can get all your way-in results at Mbayfighting.com. And then we'll have the People's Pre-Fight Show 1130 a.m. Eastern on Saturday, post-fight show right after. And we'll be wrapped and packed with this baby by like 9 p.m. Eastern. It's fantastic. So, Casey, have I wasted enough time here?

Do we have the votes tabulated? Are we good to go? Yes, sir. You have wasted enough time? We are good. Oh, my goodness. I'm going to give it about 30 more seconds. Whoa, tight.

The gap is closing. The gap is coming. Okay. So whatever it is, I'm just happy to be here. It was such a good time. It was a great time, Ricky. I had so much fun talking to you guys. I mean, this is amazing.

So we got like maybe 15 more seconds. So if you want to get those last second votes, get it in. This was a great battle. This was a great battle. And I'm excited to see how the fans voted. So apparently the tides are changing a little bit. So hopefully Casey can can fill us in on how the tides change. But are we good?

Do we run off the clock? I think we're good. We're good. We're good. All right, here we go. All right. Your winner today with 51% of the votes is Jedmishu. Whoa, he gets it done.

51% is close, man, damn. Was there a draw option, Casey? No draw option, no draw option. Oh, this is, wow. I mean, so was Jen winning the whole way? Was Jed winning the whole way? Jed had a big lead and then it got smaller and smaller. Jed started out of like he was like about 65%.

Then I was about to close the pole at 55%. Then I looked over again. It was like 51% and it got closed. We had a strong closing round. He was strong closing round. It was excellent. It was excellent. He did. Well, Jed, you are back in the win column after that battle with BC.

The people have jumped aboard. They were on your side this week. What is your reaction to getting the fan vote this time around? You know, I'm just happy to be here, Mike. Just like Rick said, just being with my friends talking about fist fights. We've got some good ones this weekend. If you haven't, make sure to check out No Bet's Bar. Great podcast on the NBA Fighting Podcast Network.

also dropped a piece today. It was an interview with Greg Jackson because today is the 10-year anniversary of UFC 151 or what would have been UFC 151. So, and that is also what this afternoon's damn they were is going to be about. So just remembering a really crazy time in mixed martial arts because it's honestly one of the funniest things that's happened.

Going back and looking at it is truly, truly incredible. I recommend you. you read the article I wrote today. There's a link in there to a press release from the USC that should be put in the Louvre. It is like just unbelievable stuff. So yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me. As always, guys.

As well done. New York, Rick, I know, you know, you're just happy to be here. Now that the results have been read or were you still happy to be here? Always happy to be here. I get to spend this time hanging out with my three buds, Casey, Mike and Jed. then I get to, you know, listen to the results of a vote by the bunch of gibbons who couldn't time my shoelaces and know nothing about MMA. And it has no impact and significance on my life. And then I get to come back and spend another amount of time with my three buds and do it all over again.

So this is, this is the best thing going. And I'm always happy to be here. Love it. Casey, you can hit the exit music. We are good. We have talked as much as we possibly could today. But we'll see you back tomorrow. Noon Eastern, UFC Paris preview show before that, heck of a morning on the NBA fighting Twitter spaces.

It's going to be a very busy weekend as far as content goes. Congratulations, Jed Bishu. New York, Rick, thank you for jumping in. I know you're a very busy man. So for Jed, for New York, Rick, for Casey Lyden on the ones and twos, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn may or may not take you home. I am Mike. I'll see you back once again next week right here on Between the Links. Good night, everybody.

Love you, guys. This has been Between the Links and Eminem. a fighting production on the Vox Media Network. Into the Vox Media Podcast Network.