MMA Fighting - BTL | Diaz vs. Masvidal REACTION, Namajunas vs. Cortez Headline UFC Denver, Jones vs. Stipe, More

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Nate Diaz and Jorge Masvidal wrote the second chapter of their combat sports rivalry this past Saturday night in the boxing ring. This time, Diaz got the victory over Masvidal in a very fun 10-rounder. How do you grade the fight between one-time UFC competitors, and what is next for both guys? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the MMA Fighting panel reacts to the Diaz vs. Masvidal fight, if a third meeting should be next, and how likely Diaz and Masvidal's next fights will be in the UFC. Additionally, topics include this Saturday's UFC Denver event, the headliner between former champ Rose Namajunas and Tracy Cortez and the stakes for both women, other must-see bouts on the card, Jon Jones and Stipe Miocic continuing to defend their potential fight, Darren Till's boxing debut, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Alexander K. Lee.  Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

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welcomes you to a special Tuesday edition of BTL. Thank you for joining us. A lot happened over the weekend, none of which took place for the Elstit Fighting Championship. They gave us a rare Saturday night off. We saw revenge, weirdness, confusion, naive behavior. And today we tap into all of those things and feelings. So let us introduce the panel and not waste any more time.

First, he's Mr. No Gray area, the hot take kid, the Baron of Boop himself from M.Afighting.com, the Prince of Atlanta. Well, Jed Michoud is here. Hi, Jed. Look at the 24-inch pythons. Hey, Mike. Sorry, everyone. We're doing this on Tuesday.

It's my fault. I'm going on vacation later this week. So I could not do Thursday. So we had to, you know, mix things. So thank you. Thank you for accommodating me so I can talk to you about UFC Denver. What a great card. Yes, we wanted to make sure you got your chance to give him a Shulen scale or some sort of number on that card before you go away. But facing Jed this week, making his return to the program, you might hear his melodious voice on on to the next one. He's the Prince of Positivity. And he's not just my best friend. He's the best friend to us all from MMA fighting.

Alexander Kay Lee, Mr. A.K. How's it going? How's Canada? Hi, everyone. Canada is doing great. Canada is cooking baby. Semi-finals of the Copa America, a tournament that geographically they shouldn't even be in.

Makes no sense. But here we are. Very excited. Big game tonight. I guess maybe about the time. I'll listen to this later in the week. Why? Why geographically are they not involved?

Because Copa America is the South America's teams. I mean, I just assumed. It was all of the Americas. No, no. We have conca calf is the North America and other. Yeah, yeah. But it's in the U.S.

So they're like, oh, let's invite USA and Mexico and Canada. And presumably USA, I think they thought was going to advance. But they were wrong. In my head, I thought Conca Calf and Cobra were the same thing. Here comes Canada, baby. Here comes Canada. I do not understand the language you are speaking. There is no South and North America.

There's just the American. It's football, guys. All right. Well, I mean, look, we could do a whole separate roundabout football, but we're not going to. Let's begin with the story of this past weekend. It was not in football. It was in the world of boxing. The rematch everybody was waiting for between Nate Diaz and Jorge Mazadol.

This time took place over 10 rounds of boxing. And in the end, really fun fight. Diaz wins a majority decision. Very close fight. I thought Diaz won in watching it live. Thought he won when I rewatched it yesterday. One judge scored it a draw. One judge scored at 97-93 for Diaz.

One scored it 98-92, which is absolutely absurd. I scored at 96 to 94 for Nate both times I watched. So it ended the night in a very fun way and Diaz got some revenge and now the story can continue if it wants to. So my question for you, Jedmishu, The build to this fight was all over the freaking place, literally and figuratively. Multiple dates, multiple locations, a lot of press conferences. The fight week was a very tough time from the open workout to the presser to the weigh-ins.

It was a really difficult fight week to get invested in. However, the fight delivers. They sell out the Honda Center in Anaheim, big crowd, and they were the talk of the weekend in combat sports. So from where you sit, was this, is this going down as a win? Should a victory lap be taken after this? A hundred percent. Like how would it not be a win, like an unmitigated win for everyone involved? Other than maybe FAMIO, I'm not really sure they got their money's worth.

Like I would strongly doubt they made money based on kind of some of the numbers we've been hearing about what the payouts were for top, top down basically. But like, look, we, I don't remember how public we were about this, but certainly privately, we were pretty low on what was happening this weekend or this past weekend. I certainly was. I wrote about it for the site said, you know, this just isn't, doesn't appeal to me. I don't think this is necessarily a bad matchup. It just has no interest to me. And also, not really sure it has interest to other people, even the fighters themselves in that fight week, just didn't.

they didn't put it over on fight week, you know. And then they go out there and have, you know, one of the better scraps of the year. It's also people saying, you know, best fight of the year. That's insane. But this was a competitive, entertaining, interesting fight. Both dudes got paid a bag. So it's obviously a huge win for them.

Huge win for Nate Diaz. Huge win for everybody except maybe FanMeo because I don't think they made money because they're paying several. tens of millions of dollars in total payout on this. But even so, I don't think anyone leaves this upset. Casey, our wonderful producer on the ones and twos, was there, said that the vibe in the arena felt like it had that big fight feel. So huge win for everybody, but the biggest winner is Nathan Diaz,

because let me tell you, Mike, I did not watch this live. I had other things to do with my time. It was terrific. I woke up, I went to www.com, it's a great website. I was like, let me see what happened. You know, let me find out where we're at. And I see, oh, Nate Diaz wins a decision. Okay, majority decision.

Dive into it. I went back to watch the fight. But my first thought when I saw that Nate Diaz won and then his call out after was, oh shit, Nate Diaz is about to get a welterweight title shot. Because, like, this is the myth of Nate Diaz. It doesn't matter what goes on. He walks in the light.

He and Alex Pereira are. the main characters. And so they get to manage to weave through things that would beset any other one. Like, no, it's good. And now this man might come back to the UFC and get a title fight. So everybody's a winner, but Nate's the biggest one. A.K., I agree with this. Everybody wins.

This is a gigantic success all around. It doesn't matter how it, you know, how it builds up, as long as it ends the way people can be happy about or at least feel. like it was a fun thing that they did on a Saturday night. Plus the crowd, all of that, I don't think this does great on pay-per-view. I'll be stunned if we get a number that's, like, remotely good, even if it matches what UFC 301 did, honestly, on pay-per-view. It would be a shocker to me.

But is this a win? Did you come out of this weekend thinking, you know what, Diaz Basid, all everybody involved? Take a victory lap. You've earned it. Yeah, I agree with a lot of what Jed said. I'll, it even goes first to say that I think FanMeo is one of the winners. Wow, there you go.

There was my voice. Maybe I don't believe it. I would say FAMIO is one of the winners because it's a lost leader type thing, right? It's like they definitely did not make money on this event unless there's some other, you know, accounting that we're not aware of. I mean, these companies seem pretty smart. I think they took a loss. I think they knew going in they were going to take a loss. But I didn't know what FanMeo was before.

I actually maybe still don't know what FAMIO is, but I'm aware of the brand. I think the brand visibility took a big jump this weekend, at least among a certain. segment of sports fans, you know, combat sports fans, if that's who they're targeting, your average, plenty of combat sports fans now know, oh, Fenio, they're the guys who put on the Diaz Masmedal fight. And if that leads to them checking out whatever it else, it is that fanio does, maybe they will, maybe they won't. But brand recognition is very powerful. So I don't think it's sustainable for them to be doing these kind of payouts every, you know, every four months or something, like trying to hold an event every four months to do some of this.

That's definitely going to cost them a lot of money. But once a year, once every eight months, maybe if they can put on fights like this, maybe don't shell out the massive contracts they probably had to pay for this one. They could have something going here. So fan meal, maybe not the biggest winner, but I would put them on the winners list. I do think there's just something you said about us saying fan.

I've said fan meal more times in the last 60 seconds than I have in my entire life. So that has to stand for something. And Jed also mentioned that like, you know, Casey was there. Casey was giving us updates, like how great it seems being live. It even came off really well in the broadcast. I think, obviously it's not something

someone could just randomly tune into. But if, let's say you watch the prelims, the prelims are free. If someone tuned into the prelims and just watched sort of how the broadcast was and how it was presented, you'd be like,

oh, wow, this actually looks like a big deal. This looks like a normal boxing event. And then your curiosity might be peaked when you see Nate Diaz, see Horace Mousvedol. So that might get you to shell out for the peer review. I don't know.

You see Anthony Pettis on there, Chris Avila, you know, hey, he's an Nate Diaz guy. So the production was where it had to be. I think it just came off like any a high-profile boxing event. And that says a lot, again, because we are talking about fanbio

and, again, some people involved who you wouldn't associate with boxing normally. But there you go. It came off really well. The mileage may vary with the quality of the fights. I'm going to give us a pat on the back, us in the so-called M-May Media pat-in-the-back. A lot of us were pretty

not super enthusiastic about this car. We weren't pushing it as we would some other events. I think our round... Jed mentioned our roundtable, him, Damon Martin, and I, we wrote, one of the questions we asked was, why should fight fans tune in? Jan's answer was just, there's nothing better to do. Damon was, you know who.

I was right. Damon said, well, you know who Nate Diaz and Horace but all are? And I went with a very generic combat sports as fun. So we weren't exactly presenting the most compelling case for people to tune in. But I think we also set, we, again, a lot of the people who wrote about this, I think we set the appropriate level of excitement. I think if you got too hyped up for this, then the car is kind of like just me.

I think if you went in again, very low expectations, just happy to see Diaz, Mazdaal making money, see some recognizableable names on the undercard. You had a good time. You had a really good time. So, yeah, win for everyone.

Now for the fight itself, A.K., what's your biggest takeaway from Nate's win over Mazadol? I mean, I don't know, even know if you agreed with the scorecards and Nate winning, but when it was over, even reflecting on it now. When you think of the fight, the fallout of it, what's the first thing that comes to your mind

in terms of how the fight played out? I had it 95-95, but again, several of the rounds could have gone either way, had no problem with the Diaz decision. You mentioned Mike, 98-92, a little crazy. But yeah, my first takeaway is, like, it's, Jed is right that Nate Diaz is untouchable. He can really pretty much do everything he wants,

but it is nice to be back in the winning column. I do think winning matters to some degree. With a guy like Diaz, again, you look at his record, he's lost many, many times and hasn't heard him that much. But now to say, like, oh, I have this boxing win over a former rival. I avenged a loss. That's huge.

I didn't love him using his post-flight platform to call for a Jake Paul rematch. I didn't love the Leon Edwards rematch either, even if there is a frighteningly high chance that someone at UFC headquarters is twirling their mustache right now going like, yeah, if Leon beats Bala, I mean, you know. So it's, they made sense. It just, it just wasn't exciting for me. But yeah, just seeing Diaz win again felt good. I know he beat Tony Ferguson in his last year's key fight,

but that was such a weird circumstance. The Jake Paul fight, I think, left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Not just that he lost, like, it was a pretty not great fight. It was a forgettable fight and him losing to a YouTuber, influencer, whatever you want to call him. Not great for the Diaz brand. It's not going to break it, but not great. There's stuff that you have to think, like, man, how can Diaz not beat this guy? So remember him to get in there with an actual credible fighter.

And I thought Mazidol looked like a pretty decent boxer too. Again, whether you thought he won or not, you look good in there. Like, you knew what he was doing. It was some decent boxing for, for Diaz to triumph over that. And do it in his own way, too. You know, he was fighting Diaz style. He just reminded people like why he's so fun to watch, what makes him unique, why he has this following that he has.

It was 100% Diaz. and win or lose, that's all that his fans are asking for. So yeah, I love that as much as the industry changes around us, this guy is the same person he was like 15 years ago. Jed, I know when you read everything on MMA fighting and you saw the words and heard what Nate had to say, your biggest takeaway was dude's about to go back to the UFC and fight Leon Edwards and get a title shot.

But aside from that, what's the biggest takeaway from all of this? Nate winning, exacting some sort of revenge. What stands out to you? Who cares? Revenge? What revenge? It's just not the same. In an M.M.A fight, I think everyone would still comfortably pick Hori Mosswood

or beat Nate. Some people thought he beat Nate in boxing. I truly don't care. That fight was not. No dude convincingly won. It was just a close fight. You know, I, if we're, removing the Nate Diaz gets a title fight, which is, again, my biggest takeaway.

My other biggest takeaway is I just forget how I somehow find a way to not remember how much Nate Diaz can bend the narratives into the places he wants it to go. Because coming off, like, he left the UFC in the most perfect fashion possible. He was supposed to get obliterated by Hamzaa, all of the shuffling. happens and suddenly he fights Tony Ferguson. Subs Tony Ferguson, brilliant prize fighting, gets out and says, hey, I got to go handle some boxing business, but I'm going to come back. Doesn't put the UFC down, doesn't burn any of those bridges, says, hey, this is where

the best fighters in the world are, I just have business to attend to elsewhere, goes and does it, gets the Jake Paul fight that we all knew was coming, has been kind of doing his real fighting stuff, gets Jorge Moswell, who's currently still under UFC. contract somehow gets this fight to happen. And again, wins the fight. Like AK said, winning is important. You can't lose in perpetuity and kind of still have this aura. But the fact that he can navigate his career

into places where the losses don't mean much and the wins are enormous. You know, he lost the rematch to Connor. No one cares. He lost Leon Edwards, but he had that moment in the fifth round, so it's fine. Like he, He is able to insulate himself from the things that bring other fighters down and then carve a path through to the high end here, which is, hey, I just, I looked good. People now remember, ooh, this is why we like Nate Diaz, not because he's, you know, not doing anything and losing to Jake Paul, but kind of being an asshole in the cage and throws on the gilly. We like him because he can do that and win and put, you know, 700 strikes out and do this. This is why we like Nathan Diaz, and he gets to have that positive momentum as he then says,

hey, I'm open to a return to the UFC under the right circumstances. If not, I'm open to make a bunch more money with Jake Paul. Because those are kind of the options for him, right? Like there's not a ton else for him to do. It's go back to the UFC or wait for Connor to get out of it. But no, because he can go back to the UFC and maybe he doesn't get a well-to-way title fight. you know there's another guy in the ufc right now pretty clearly doesn't want to fight the guy that he's supposed to be fighting who has a history with nate dyes and if if he says hey man

fine you're not going to give me leon edwards give me connor mcgregor i'll come back i'll fight connor in december and we'll do connor nate three and then if i win that i get a welterweight title shot against Leon Edwards. Like he is just, he navigates his career so perfectly, despite being like a pretty midfighter. Like I like Nate Diaz. Not a great, like he is not an all time great fighter, but he is an all time great prize fighter. Completely agree with that.

So I'll go back to you, Jed, because you laid out what could or should be next for Diaz. I saw some people hit me up be like, well, now day could just go to PFL and make a whole bunch of money. I'm here to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, there's zero chance Nate Deez. as is going to PFL. Even if PFL offers him $15 million, he ain't going. He does not want to fight for them.

It doesn't, it appears. But where does Jorge Mazadol go now, Jed Bishu? Is there, like, is that appetite still there? I mean, he fought well. His boxing looked really good. He just fought a guy who is like the complete opposite of your boxer, like a technical boxer. And I think while he, Jorge did things to throw Nate off coming out Southpaw, et cetera, he boxed really well and Nate just is like eh I'm just going to come in and push forward and throw a billion shots but where do you think Mazadol goes from here where does it happen who does he fight etc when we wrote about this beforehand I said that I think he's going to fight I pretty clearly Horie Mossadol's in game was I'm going to beat Nate Diaz then I'm going to try and fight um uh holy crap's major brain fight on fart on Jake Paul's name pretty clearly like I'm going to try and fight Jake Paul's name pretty clearly like I'm going to try and fight Jake

Paul because that's the thing that everyone wants to do. Probably not going to get that fight coming off a loss against Nate Diaz here, right? But the other option that I said for him was it's weird and I don't particularly care for it, but it feels like it's just going to happen now. And it's Chale Sondon. Chale Sondon, you know, has that fight, big quotation marks there with Anderson Silva and was like pointed about it. Yeah, this is me warming up to.

figure out how to box so I can fight Hori Mastradol for reasons that I still don't understand, but whatever. Coming off a loss kind of makes total sense for them to do that. It will probably draw interest in eyeballs, you know, two relatively big stars, even though they're old and past their prime. So it feels like that's what's going to happen. And then if he goes and he beats up Chale, then yeah, yeah, Jake Paul. Like it's Jake Paul, his gimmick is what his gimmick is.

is right now, you know, and I'm not disparaging him, but he's, he's doing Jake Paul things. Fighting Mike Perry, it's toughest test of his career, I think, arguably. Maybe Times Theory was, whatever. But like, then he's going to invite Mike Tyson. He's going to, I don't even want to say kill Mike Tyson because that's actually like a tragic possibility. He is going to beat Mike Tyson. And then where does he go?

He's not, he's never going to actually fight like a WBC ranked dude. And so, Horace Mossadol. That's just a big name can do it. It's there. So I think that's kind of the path for Jorge's chale and then try and get himself into the Jake Paul sweepstakes. AK, we didn't have on to the next one. So we'll do it here. What's next for Nate Diaz?

What's next for Jorge Mazadol? Yeah. Well, for Jorge, all I want to say is just not Tommy Fury. Anything but I think he mentioned Tommy Fury, right? Somewhere in there or I don't know how I saw that pop. up like Mazdaon and Time Fury. Please, God, no. I think that that could be a fun, like, maybe like clash of worlds type of thing.

And, you know, Tommy Fury could kind of almost do like a Jake Paul thing. Like, oh, let me see what it's like to beat up one of these, like, you know, anime fighters turn boxers. So Tommy Fury side, I'd probably be down with it. But the fight itself, I just can't imagine it being remotely entertaining. I don't think anyone's knocking anybody out. It would just be dreadful. So I don't know if, and Masadol will be interesting it because I guess it's kind of like,

Like, oh, you know, maybe he can get Jake Paul, maybe he can't. If he can't get Jake Paul anytime soon, he gets the guy who beat Jake Paul. But yes, please, Mazadal don't know. Mazadal's team don't do this. Time Furious team, don't do this. And now that I've said it, I'm almost sure that we're going to see it. With Diaz, it's so tricky because he won and he should have a lot of options. But like I said, I don't love the Jake Paul rematch.

I just can't. Who wants to see that again? Like, I just, I don't care. The Leon Edwards thing, I'm trying to speak it out of existence, if that's possible. Like, I know it's possible. I know we've said why all the reasons it could happen. I'm just really hoping it doesn't. Like, we don't need to do this ever.

And, um, Connor McGregor, it feels like it's like it's definitely going to happen someday, but just not next. I don't, I, there's so many just weird little hurdles in the way. Plus,

there's that part of me that wonders of Connor is going to fight anyone again ever in in boxing, slap fighting anything. You could, you could not surprise me if, if he just turned out like one day he retired. Like, he just quietly retires.

It's just another five years. of I'm coming back, I'm coming back, and he just never fights, and eventually we all just start looking the other way and just going like, yeah, forget it, we're just going to stop matchmaking for this guy. So for Nate, I don't know, I wish there, I wish, I would like to see him face a real boxer.

I know that's something that's just too old roll their eyes at, but I don't know, like a real mid-level boxer. There's no money in that for him, but him and his boy, Chris Avila, I am like morbidly curious how their style actually would work against someone who, really, really knows what they're doing, because I don't know if I'll have time to crap on Chris Avala later, but, like, I know he won. This Stockton style of boxing, very high volume, very little impact.

I know I shouldn't say, I'm sure if they punched me once, I would die. But, you know what I mean? When they're facing another professional fighter, it's so weird to watch. So my, my wish is that he fights some, some boxer or some sort of cachet, not just some influence or something, not another an MMA fighter. I know that's not going to happen, but I really want to see the world to collide somehow. I just don't know who that could be and who would make sense for Diaz in that sense right now. It's so funny. I think Jose and I might be the only two people who thought Chris Avila versus Anthony Pedis was not bad. We actually like had a good time watching it. I don't know. It wasn't a, I didn't think it was a bad fight like entertainment wise. I just didn't look at that fight. but either of these guys have any actual like medium level boxing ability.

I did not think. But the fight itself was like the whole card I thought, other than the Dubois Mosley-Moseley-Jacobosley-Fa. What did I say Dubois? The Mosley-Jacob's fight, excuse me. Mosley-Jacob's fight was very dull. I mean, I'm sure it was great technical boxing. Maybe I'm just being a noob.

But it was dull. It wasn't fun to watch. The crowd was very restless. You could hear them. But Avala Pettis was certainly fun. Kermel Moten doing his thing was exciting. The Vargas-Shan-Garcia fight was really, really, really fun. That was super fun.

That was arguably. honestly maybe better than the main event. It was a really good fight. So, yeah, the card overall was good. And yes, but Avalon Pettus, it's not a great boxing match, Mike. But you're right. I was watching and I was like, man, I'm kind of locked in. And also, thank goodness, it's only six rounds.

So there you go. Very true, very true. All right. Well, that was Diaz versus Mazadol. We'll see what happens next for both guys. We're going to Denver, Colorado next here on this program. The point for round one goes to Prince of Positivity, one to nothing for a day.

nicely done go Canada football that'll be the score tonight 1-0-0 Canada over Argentina that would be the score tonight wow you're really really pulling for something big and impressive huh yeah thrilling stuff

might I mention that I watched those two teams play earlier and it did not go that way Canada did a lot better than people thought alright 1-0 as we say in the football world tonight one day they probably should have lost like four or five. But they didn't, but they didn't. They only lost two, nothing.

They had their chance. But messy missed two stone wide open. He's washed. It's washed. It's infuriating. He's washed. Oh, boy. Well.

Race the runners. Raise the sails. Raise the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

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sandwiches and babies named in their honor. But most of all, they deserve AI cybersecurity that can stop novel threats before they become breaches across email, clouds, networks, and more. DarkTrace is the cybersecurity defenders deserve and the one they need to defend beyond. Visit darktrace.com forward slash defenders for more information. Maybe they can play in Denver and we'll see if messy success can improve in Denver. But that's where the UFC is heading. and we have a main event between Rosamah Yunus and Tracy Cortez.

It's supposed to be Rose Namibus versus Bacy Barber. Tracy Cortez is supposed to fight Miranda Maverick next weekend at the world's most famous Apex. Did a little shuffling of the deck. A couple of fights got added over the last week, week and a half or so. And a couple of good ones. Drew Dover versus Gian Silva seems to get everybody all excited. But, AK, I'll begin with you. Excitement levels for UFC Denver or out of the world's most famous apex.

We're out of the most infamous warehouse around the globe. And we're in Denver at your favorite arena, your favorite arena name. Because none of us know what this sponsor actually is. But yeah, UFC Denver. How excited are we? Yeah, ball arena. Ball arena. I mean, they play basketball there.

That's, there you go. How can I complain? This is not how good I think the card is. You're essentially how excited I am. I'm at a solid eight. I'm at a solid eight. One, anytime you're out of it. Anytime you're out of the apex, guys, that's like a one point.

That's like already a one point. So like if we start with the UFC card with a baseline of like six, it's already a seven just not being at the apex. And then you just have to have a few decent cards on there. Sorry, a few decent fights on there. It's also only an 11 fight card, which I like. If this was like 13, 14 fights, I might be, you know, I might be dragging my heels a little bit to get to the TV to turn this one on.

But yeah, it's not a bad as far as how it's structured. I think it's a normal pretty late start. It is like 8, 6, whatever, it's 7 p.m. prelimbs, 10 p.m. main card, is that right? Oh, yeah, it's a late one. It's a late one, right? Yeah, well, so nothing to be done about that. If this was afternoon MMA,

it would probably bump it 8.2, 8.4. It'd bump it up higher. But I like it. I also like a lot of people on this card, so I guess I'm biased. This is a mileage of my May very thing. But I tell you, at least for the most part, we're not getting, I feel like we're not getting stuffed with

barely there contender series prospects and ultimate fighter like hangers-ons i like a lot of this side's like i'm a big and jopatrasi guy i don't know if people aren't fans of his fighting style i'm a fan i just i still think he's like could be a top 15 guy and middleweight montal jackson getting back in the cage is always fun uh maria gopva back after a long a long time i'm just going up the car now fatima klein a lot of people are excited about her debut she was supposed to contender series now she's just thrown right into the fire with jasmine yasadavishis again proud Canadian. Josh Van.

I mean, there's like really good names around the prelims. And then on the main car we've got some fun ones, Drew Dover, John Silva. I think Ponzanino saw a call is a fun matchup.

And I like the main event. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued by the main event. I think it's, this is the right test for Tracy Cortez right now. I know it was mostly Macy and not Tracy. But Cortez has just been such an interesting story over the past few years.

She's clearly someone worth pushing. She has a really good following. I just checked. She has almost a million followers on Instagram. She has a good record, right? She has a very glossy looking undefeated UFC record. This is a massive, massive step-up in competition for her. I think like the best opponent, the best win on her resume is like a 19-year-old

Aaron Blanchield way back in the day, very controversial score. And that's it. Other than that, she's beaten some pretty low-tier fighters at 125. So she'll have a size advantage. But I mean, as far as experience goes, high-love experience, man, the gap is enormous. but maybe she's catching Rose at the right time. We don't know. So this is exactly why this kind of matchups are intriguing.

I'm not of the camp that's like, oh, the Cortez matchup is better than the Barber Rose matchup. I do think I'd rather see what happened with Macy and Rose. But this is just like a slight notch below. It's not like, oh, I'm way disappointed that they could only get trade. I think Tracy's a great replacement. And for her, this is a really good test. And for Rose, I don't know, man. She's serious at 125.

Taking this fighter's undefeated UFC record would be a really big achievement. Again, a fighter's going to give a lot of size. too. So yeah, I'm a solid eight on this one, Mike. A solid eight. Jed, I don't know where your shows, where your scores going. Michoulin scores, the Farton scorecard. Do you agree with AK in his eight? Are you surprised by that answer? I mean, it's definitely not an eight. First, though, I'd like to learn you a little something because you erroneously came out here saying that we don't know what the ball arena is named after. That's ridiculous, Mike, because it's named after the Ball Corporation, obviously, Titans,

giants in the aerospace and packaging industries. Most famous for producing, you know, glass jars, lids, and at-home canning equipment, and then they diversified and just became a multi-billion dollar corporation that does a whole bunch of stuff, including aerospace technology. So that's what it's, it's a Colorado-based company. This is real? Yes, they are based in Colorado, the Ball Corporation. I'm looking at this.

So I don't know why you guys didn't know this. Founded in, I'm just reading what you know off the top of your head, obviously. Founded in 180 by Frank and Edmund Ball. The Ball Brothers. Not to be confused with the Ball Brothers of the NBA. Yes, which is a little confusing, but yes. I mean, I just assumed y'alls, maybe you don't have as diverse a portfolio of investment. stocks and bonds as I do, but the Ball Corporation, they've been doing big things for a long time,

guys. One of the big things they aren't doing, though, is playing host to UFC Denver, which is not an eight. It is, it's just not. There's some things happening on this card that are good. Like the main event, you know, it's short notice, but still pretty good. Chase Cortez, on the come-up, Rose Nammy Eunice, been one of the best fighters in the world for a very long time. So it was a good fight. Ponsinibio Salakov is just like, I don't know,

Salikov's old and weird and Ponzi had really high ceiling and he never got there. I don't know what to make of that. I absolutely adore Drew Dober versus Jean-Silva, particularly Silva coming in fought two weeks ago and was like, I killed that dude. I am more than content to step in against Drew Dober and hit him on his big old chin. That fight's going to run. rock and then the rest of this is eh like there's a bomb fiend brother josh van i love josh van as a prospect so that's pretty cool the rest of it's just sort of whatever so

uh obviously this is not a mishulin star system this is a fight above replacement tussle sort of score here and i didn't do the hard math but just kind of ballparking it just looking it over we're getting a one two, three, probably a four. It's probably a four on the fight above replacement tussle scale. So certainly we've seen worse,

but as far as a on location, non-Apex card, it's one of the lighter offerings the UFC has put forth this year, which is kind of a recurring theme for how 2024 is gone, frankly. Yeah, dude, this card is taking a beating from the main event. We lost Mike Belot, Gilbert Urbina.

We lost Viviani Araujo versus Jasmine Jazavizi. It's been out of Fetima Klein's coming in, who is a favorite right out the gate, which I think is really interesting. She's good and very solid and is going to have a great future in the UFC. I'm very surprised she opened as the betting favorite here. Drew Dover, Mike Davis is a great fight. We get Gianzil, which is still good.

Chris Duncan, Nazeem Sadikoff was supposed to happen on this card. Sattikov had two different opponents, and I think he's, is he off the card altogether now? This is just, it's been a tough stretch for some of these cards. So he's off the card altogether. I would have loved Saddokov, versus Drew Dover, but in comes Gian Silva. But let's talk about the main event real quick, Jed. We got Rosemiann Munoz versus Tracy Cortez.

I'm curious what you believe is at stake here. What awaits the winner? How close to a title shot are they? I mean, Trace Cortez, being able to put Rosnamu's name on her resume would be a very big deal. We have Alexa Grasso kind of waiting to figure. who she's going to fight at the sphere in September? Is it Valentina? Is it Manon Fioro?

Could one of these women step in and play spoiler to everybody else involved, Jed? No, not that. It's, I don't know what's at stake here, right? Because it's not a title fight. It is, certainly this would be by far the biggest one of Tracy Cortez's career. I'm looking at it. Rose is number six in the UFC's ranking, so this will elevate her sort of immediately,

into that upper echelon. It would obviously be huge, but it also probably just means she's fighting Aaron Blanchfield next, which that's tough. And so, I think the winner of this fight is getting Aaron Blanchfield for maybe a title eliminator depending on timelines.

But the UFC has, I was answering this question off of mailbag the other day. And it is, I don't know what the UFC has done with their women's divisions, but it feels like they have, just given up on them. They are rudderless and insane. Like having Grasso sit out as long as she has for the Noche card is kind of lunacy because you have multiple people to get in there and fight for

I get it. You want her to be at Noce. That's cool. Sometimes timelines just don't line up. And so you've got to pivot to something else. Like you've been doing that all the time. They didn't give her shit about Alex Pereira fighting on 301 in Brazil. Why is this like where we're going to stand 10 toes down and die on the hill? This division needs to be moving because there are people for it to move with and instead it has felt stagnant. And so we have a main event like this that's objectively pretty decent that should be meaningful and kind of isn't just because they're not fighting for a title next.

Maybe their next fight is a title eliminator. But if Grasso, you know, beats either Shepchenko or Furo in September, hope, like, best case scenario, she would then defend again in December. And if that doesn't happen, and instead, she gets injured, we have to push this back. We're talking the next flyweight title defense is not until early 2025. So then, what, is the winner of this going to wait until next summer? I guess, but that's not a way to build momentum or energy around a weight class. they're mismanaging the shit out of their female divisions right now

and so that's why we have a main event that's okay but feels lesser than it than it was you know AK do we have stakes here and just going back to Jed's point is there anything that the matchmakers could do to put the flyweight division the women's flyweight division at par in your mind with the women's band and weight division which you revere so much and so highly No.

Automatic note of the second part of that question does not even need to be elaborated on. To the first part of the question, which I guess we can discuss a little bit further. It's whoever wins us at least puts themselves on that short list and says, hey, I'm available to fight for the title at some point in the next six months, right? That's, Chesa Cortez has been saying all the right things about saying, oh, you know, Valentino's not available. I'm happy to fight in the sphere. I'm happy to fight Alexa. And that'd be a great Noce, Briad season, U.S.C. Noce, 3.0. six whatever at the sphere in Las Vegas headliner, co-handliner, whatever else, they can get

in the card. So Tracy Cortez singing all the right things. Rose is Rose. Rose has a following. She's all, just by moving up to the division, she was already kind of, she already kind of put herself on the list of the UFC, you know, match figures going like, oh, man, hopefully we can like throw her in a title fight someday. And it's good that she got a win, you know, she needed a win.

She got one in there after sort of, I don't say disappointing because I don't think a lot of people assumed she was going to beat Menon. But, you know, if she had beaten Mano, she. She would have, again, moved right to the front of the line, either number one or number two contender. So just beyond the list is good. And like I said, we don't know what's happening with this fear. We've heard a lot of rumors Shetchenko doesn't want to fight there or isn't ready to fight and that's fine. And then one of these names could slide in.

It should be Menel. But we know what can happen. Like Menal gets injured. Guess what? It's going to be Tracy or Rose. So that much is on the line. It is not a surefire, no one contenders fight. I don't care what happens.

I don't care if Tracy Cortez submits Rose in the first round. I don't care of Rose friggin' head kicks. Tracy in 30 seconds, they should not leave Frog Mano. I know a lot of people were asked for it because we have the memories of goldfish, but Mano, she beat Rose quite definitively. She beat the woman who no one wanted to fight Aaron Blanchfield very convincingly. Menon should be locked into, if she is healthy, should be locked in that and one contender spot. And frankly, again, if Shavchenko can't fight, I see no reason why Menon shouldn't get that spot.

So there's, like I say, I do think there's a lot on the line in the main event. but I guess that a lot, that may vary. Like the meaning may vary to some people. I think it's a lot just to be put in a position where if other people get knocked out of the way, you become a telecontender. But other people who are hoping for some sort of guarantee, I don't think so.

I don't think you can say that the winner of this, no matter how they do it, stamps themselves into, like, leaps to the front of the line. I just don't think that'd be fair. Well, as we've learned, availability is your best friend. So whoever wins this fight should make themselves ready and available in case that phone rings. As was mentioned earlier, Santiago,

Ponzanivio, Muslim Salikoff, the co-main event, Drew Dover, Gian Silva. That ain't going to the cards. It's going to be fun as hell. They're just going to stand there and punch and punch and punch until somebody falls down. Gabriel Bonfim versus Anglosa. Who knew Anglosa would be on a main card outside of the apex in

2024 after what happened in the Brian Battle fight? Christian Rodriguez is back, fights Julian Arosa and the main card will open with Cody Brundage versus Abdul Razak al-Hsan. So we know what's going to happen in that fight. Either ARA is going to get Cody out there in vicious fashion in round one or Cody's going to submit him in round two or in beyond. So that's your main card. We'll have more coverage, more discussions about UFC Denver throughout the week.

But let's move on to another tremendous UFC division. It's the heavyweight division. Point for round two goes to. Jed Bishu for giving us the history of the Ball Corporation. I learned so much. Look, you come to DTL for the takes, you stay for the enriching facts that add to your life. By ball. Yes.

As we have learned, that's true. But as we have learned throughout the course of M.A. history, no one can enrich lives and enrich intelligence and teach you more about the meaning of life than former UFC heavyweight champion Steep A. Mietich. And boy, is he out there just giving people enrichment left and right, does an interview during International Fight Week, and this might be the most Steep A interview

in the history of Steep A interviews. He does it with CBS Sports. Mostly the interview was things we have heard a bunch over the past 16 or so months, but there was one thing that stood out to everybody, buddy like John Jones like Dana White steppe amyitchitch is basically saying hey mMA fans this is the fight this is the fight everybody wants to see we ain't holding up the division here's a quote i get it i'd feel the same way but i'm not taking anything away from him him being tom aspinall the ufc can do what

they want it is what it is there's only one guy i want to fight it's john jones but at the same time the ufc can pick who they want people don't know this but there are a couple other times where was ready to fight and they gave them another guy what am i supposed to do i'm not holding up any division like everyone says i don't care do what you want and stop crying i'm not saying tom's crying i'm saying the fans and stuff like that so jed let's go to you because as a man who i think it's clear as bell and it has been for a long time as a man who loves the direction of the ufc heavyweight division you sing its praises all the time your reaction to you're reaction to you're Stepe joining the fun train with John Jones and Dana White for a fight only those three

and maybe Matt Brown actually want to see. I want to start by saying I'm disappointed in Matt Brown, who I like a good deal. But maybe it's just an old thing, you know? We're living in a time where being old gives you a lot more power and makes you a lot crazy dear and maybe it's just being an old dude you can't see reason or logic at any point in time anymore but like objectively you are holding up the division also to say functionally to speak out of both sides of your mouth of this is the fight everyone wants quit bitching about it well if everyone wanted it there probably wouldn't be people bitching about it is all I'm saying it is

is, I do agree with a colonel that Stepe is the least to blame in all of this. Like, he is waiting for a heavyweight title fight. That is objectively fair and reasonable. Like, yeah, I'm going to retire or I'm going to fight John. That's fine. But that doesn't entirely, like, remove you from the part you are playing in a collaboration that is wandering the heavyweight division right now and there's just no other way to say it even if you are one of the six people alive who are deeply invested in this fight happening cool you're allowed to like the things you want to like the heavyweight belt has not been defended since last February March sorry last March just had look at it again like that's 13 more we 13 14 months now like we're coming up on this not being

defended in over a year and a half. It is objectively a problem because yes, like John got hurt. That's a thing. Well, why didn't we do, if we wanted to do Stepejohn, why didn't wait until November? Like we could have done this earlier. Nope. You are part and parcel of this. You're not the most to blame. I would say the UFC and John Jones are the most to blame. But you can't be like, oh, the UFC can do whatever they want, just deal with it. Like that's, this is how we deal with. with it. I get to bitch about it being stupid and you can not listen to. Like, that's also an option for you. You can get, you can bitch about me or you can turn to the fuck off. But like, this is just how this is going to work. And you got to be okay with it. You have to understand that not everyone's

going to be super stoked on a 42 year old retired firefighter fighting for the heavyweight belt 18 months since it was last defended. And since you, Steppe Mietich, sure, all-time great. I'm not here to dispute where you sit in the pantheon of MMA. You don't want a fight. You have not won a fight in four years. With Andrei Alovsky leaving the promotion, you have no victories over any human being currently employed

and competing for the UFC. by any objective measure, you getting a title shot is insane. And so you got to kind of just take it on the chin. If people are going to be like, this is stupid as shit, because it is. It is. You should take it. I'm not saying throw this away. Take the freebie being handed to you.

But maybe don't lecture me on like shutting the fuck up. Because you should probably just be the one who's doing that. There it is. There it is. Ridiculous. You know the horn is coming. One correction. The adoles.

Adamals came off. Yes. I can't wait for A.K.'s reaction to this. I'm sure it's going to be even spicier. But one correction of what Jedges said. The UFC heavyweight title has not been defended by a champion. And longer than that, since January 2020, I didn't even think of that.

Oh, my God. That was the last time the undisputed UFC heavyweight title was defended. My best friends were on the same page. Exactly how I was going to open my statement. Like, it's been even crazier than Jet thinks. Yes. Yes. And Ganu defeating Gan.

So by the time, assuming this fight happens in November, as John Jones seems to claim, and everyone seems to think, which is it should. It should, you know, Mattis Square Garden card. It'll have been almost three years since we've had an actual heavyweight title defense. And frankly, it's not even really a heavyweight title defense. We all know Tom Aspinall is the real heavyweight champion, but fair enough. We will count for the sake of us ending this terrible streak of, again, no defenses, we will certainly look at John Jones's defense of what the UFC has deemed the undisputed heavyweight title as an actual defense.

But yeah, almost three years, guys. There'll be whatever, 34 months, 34 months, 34 months since we must have. That's pretty crazy. Now, my math is terrible. Anyway, Mike, what was the question again? Stepe. To Stepe, yes. Listen, I'm Team Stepe.

I'm Team Stepe. All right. Not as in, not as in like I care about seeing this John Jones fight. I'm not against it. I'm not against it. It's certainly a fight. I'm sure once upon a time when it was first brought up,

when the possibility of John Jones moving up to heavyweight, whenever that talk first started seven or eight years ago, however long it was, when John Jones kept saying, I'm going to go up to heavyweight, I'm going to go up to heavyweight, welcome up to heavyweight. Yeah, I think around that time I was, oh, wow.

him and Steve A be cool. Yeah. And then Steve, you know, and Steve, we know is one of the most successful UFC heavyweight champions, the three title defenses. Again,

not a crazy record, but facts are facts. It is the record for most defenses. So I want to see it. I want to see it. And Miotich in this is, is blameless. Like,

I do think he's blamed. I don't think there's anything he can say anyway. Like, he can't come out and say, and say, like, yeah, Tom's right. I'm stepping aside for Tom. The UFC wouldn't even care.

Like, the UFC, the UFC would just be like, No, we have our plans. Stepe, you're, you're fighting, you're fighting John. And that's how we've set it in stone for the last year. And that's how it's going to be. And again, and why would Stepe even do that? Like, I just cannot blame Stepe in this at all.

I don't mind people disliking Stepe for being in this position where this fight has to happen. And the fact that he is, you know, the B side of it, as it were. I don't mind people being upset about that. But I also, I'm not upset at all with Miotich's comments. Because obviously he's being asked about this. He's being poked. He's being prodded. He has to give some sort of.

response. I'm sure he's tired of hearing it too. Like I said, if I was him and I had people shouting at me and somehow blaming me for this, this fight happening and this division being held up, I'd just be like, I'd be the 50 cent, the clip. What do you say, fuck me for? Like, I didn't do anything. Like, I know I'm going to retire soon. I want to fight John Jones. I want my big payday. I'm going to stay quiet for the most part. And when time comes to an interview as it did with CBS, I'm going to say how I feel about it, which is people just calm down. We all. all the fight's going to happen. Just accept it.

And again, I'm one of the screaming fans. I am one of the screaming fans who just wishes John would fight Tom Aspinall, or really almost any heavyweight besides Stipe. But I think there is some wisdom in laying back and accepting what we're going to get. And, you know, me on the Prince of positivity, the optimism that John Jones won't just retire and we will still see him fight Aspinall. Or even if that doesn't happen, at the very least, the division can move on from both these guys. We can give Stipe and John their flowers for the rest of eternity.

And then we can celebrate Tom Aspinall or Sirkipovitch or whatever other heavyweight that comes up, Jelton Almeda, and, you know, leads us into a new era of heavyweight glory. But I'm ready for it to be overweight. I think Stiebys, too, and really that's really all he can say about it. Just don't do it for the bell. Like, that's the easiest. I know, I know, I know. It's fine. Just don't easily could have been.

Doesn't need it. Doesn't need it. You don't have to say anything is the thing, okay? Much like chess-assized people. He's being interviewed. Sure. Just don't even do it. But too, you can just be honest.

You can just say, hey, tell me when you turn down a promotion, because that's functioning what this is. I'm getting a promotion. Would you turn down a promotion? I sure shouldn't. Like, why would I do anything else? I totally understand the frustration. That's between y'all in the UFC.

I'm doing what's best for me and that's cool. And no one would have an issue with it. It's to be like, I'm not holding up as an objective lie. That's just a stone lie. You are part of what is happening here and don't lie to me. While you were talking, okay, it's something that I just, and this will be the end of me here because I have to leave it. You have to, for my own mental well-being.

You said something that I grew, like, that brought me back and I agreed with. When this was first pitched, it wasn't great, but it didn't make sense, right? Like, okay, John just won, you know, Tom Aspaw wasn't really right there yet Curtis Blayeth. Like, we're sure, why not? It's still a little silly, but it's fine to do a legend thing. But Patrice O'Neill has this joke, and I won't say what the joke is actually about, because that's not really for their show. But like the punchline of the joke is RP Patrice-Mennett, by the way.

Punchline of the joke is, you know, like, I'll eat some stale cracker jacks, but I want them right now. I don't, I'm not trying to wait for stale cracker jacks. You give them to me right now. And Steve-Bey-John is Stale Cracker Jacks. It's not a great fight for any number of reasons. But if it happened now, if it happened immediately from when it was there, totally fine. The fact that we are now waiting a year and a half for stale Cracker Jacks is just mind-bogglingly awful.

And no one wants it. So don't come at me because you're frustrated that people are rightly saying this is bullshit. You just got to take it on the chin because that's the cost of doing business. But like, yeah, I totally get you guys frustrated. I'm going to keep doing me. Talk to the OSC about that because this is what's good for me. And that's a fine answer. Not I'm not holding up the division.

Quit crying. It's dumb. It's very dumb and ridiculous. All right. Let's have a little fun with this. If you can present the end of the odds, I'll die. No, no, no. We're not, no, no.

That'll be great. That'll be great. We're not going there. We're not going there. We're doing something a little different. A.K., if you could present betting odds right now, like you get to set the odds on this. You get to release it for the community to bet on.

They can buy or sell, however they want to do it. What are the odds that you would open with that John Jones versus Steepa happens in 2024? I'm not saying that this fight will be in now. I'm not saying, I'm not saying, what are the odds that it is announced? What are the odds that there is a post? are made. The question is, what are the odds that the fight actually starts and ends in a UFC octagon this year? I'm not saying this what I believe, but if I'm trying to just make

odds that will generate betting interest, I do think it is favorable at the moment. I do think we have all sort of agreed that as much, whether you want the fight to happen or not, we're looking ahead. We see this November card. John Jones is saying November, we're aware of the nature of his injury. They gave us a vague timetable when he, when he suffered the injury. And everything seems to be lining up for a third quarter. John Jones return, Miochit, been sitting on his ass this whole time. He should be ready as soon as that phone call comes. As soon as the contract is officially ready to sign, he should be signing a second faxing that back. So it's favorable. Now, it's not crazy favorable given the history of both men, as we have gone over multiple times during the

segment. It has been a long time since CPS won a fight. It has a lot of times since CPS has even been in the cage, John Jones is so erratic. You don't know what's going to happen with him with outside the cage issues, possibly other injuries, just him, John Jonesing his career in some way. But it is favorable. So if I'm trying to draw interest and trying to get people to bet on this, I'm giving them minus, I think it's favorable. Okay, I was going to, I was almost going to set it too low. I'll go minus 250 that it happens this year. minus 250.

I think it's fair. I think, I think we're all feeling pretty confident about it. You're going to have to put down some cash to make a profit off of this. So I'm going to go minus 250.

I don't think it should go too higher than that though. I think if you go higher than that, I think a lot of those are going to stay away. Jed is a co-oist of No Betzbarred. Did he set the line perfectly? So we've got to put everything into context, right? Steeby hasn't fought in forever.

He's getting older by the day. John Jones has physical problems. He'd been getting injured, had multiple surgeries. He's, He has issues with the law. He has, there's lots of hurdles that these both, that both men are going to have to leap over at some point between now and November, which is the targeted date in time frame for this fight to actually happen. And we know how steadfast Dana White is on this.

I think even if it falls through again, I think Dana's going to do everything in his power to try to rebook it again until it actually happens. So what do you agree? Minus 250. AK says, yes, this fight happens in 20. 24. Is that the right number? I'm really proud of AK. You know, this man do nothing about Gainville. And that's a pretty good line.

I might skew a little bit higher. I want to keep it under minus 300 just because like AK said, thinking to get to that, you're going to start disincentivizing people from taking that line. But it is going to happen. This fight is going to happen this year. And I'm pretty confident in that. And God willing, it does so we can finally be done with this and move on to the next stupid thing.

But, like, John, my account, it seems like John could fight now, but they're just waiting because they already have their pay-per-views booked, et cetera, et cetera. So they're just going to run it back a year after the fact at Madison Square Garden. And that's fine. I don't think there's, like, Steve A's old. I also think Steve A at least recognizes that if he pulls out of this fight, it may never happen because then he's old. So Steve A is just going to fight regardless of the scenario. And John, you know, knock on wood, hopefully he doesn't get injured. He's old.

He added weight, which honestly probably makes you a little more injury prone. This is that. But the U.C. handles their own drug testing now. So I think we're safe on that front. John hasn't been arrested in some time. So, you know, that train's never late. You got to always kind of be around for that to be there. But let's just assume that maybe he's growing up a little bit.

but won't get arrested. I think it's very, very likely this fight does happen this year. And so, like, I bet that line up to minus 500. But I think setting it, you know, closer to minus three somewhere that you're getting action both sides of it at that point. So that's around where I'm at, but I'm really confident it does happen. I love that we have to preface it with. Let's assume he doesn't get arrested.

Like, that's where we are with John Jones. I mean, he hasn't been arrested in a while. This is true. I, you know, I know, but that's just so sad that we have this caveat with him. Like, man, this guy's done a good job, not getting arrested in a while. And it's like, oh, how did it come to this? How did it come to this? That our greatest fighter of all time.

Like that this has to be, this has to be involved in every discussion about him. It's like, when's the last time he got, oh, man, he also got arrested a year? He's doing okay. John Jones is doing okay. It's like, oh, God, horrible. All right. Jed, you get to pick the odds for this last question. What are you setting the odds at right now that the interim heavyweight title will be defended more than once?

Oh. Oh, that's a really good one, Mike. Okay, so it's going to get defended. It's going to get defended once this weekend, or not this weekend, but at the end of this month. And then I, hi. I'm going to go high. Again, you want to incentivize action both sides, so maybe not as high as I'd like, but mine is $2.75. And I think it's very more likely than that, but you want to get action. I think there's a 0% chance. John Jones fights Tom Aspinall.

I also, if it's not abundantly clear, I do believe John Jones, one of the greatest fighters who's ever lived, is going to beat an old retired firefighter who literally has not fought in three years. So I think he's going to pretty comfortably win that fight. And then I feel some level of confidence that John will retire. And if he doesn't retire, he's 100% going to fight Alex Pair and said Tom Aspinall. So, yeah, I think it's pretty likely that Tom Aspinall has to defend against Alexander Volkov, I guess. Yeah. And look, if Curtis Blades wins the interim belt. If Curtis Blazwin, this is a question.

If there's plays when they're probably wrong because they're probably stripping him. Just like, you know, you don't get to have it, leave. Does it? It has to stay the interim title throughout these defenses, right? Mike, it can't, like, it can't become the undisputed title. Oh, no. It has to remain the interim title. So what I would suggest is if Steve, well, if Steve A wins,

then whoever the champion is is going to get elevated more than likely. Because I think it's a pretty good chance he retires. Now, if John wins. Oh, God. damn it guys. If John wins, he's probably holding on to the belt. He's probably going to take a medical. I'll see you later on next year.

But they're not going to. The UFC is not going to publicly strip him in the belts. They're not going to. No, they're going to strip the interim champion, I think. So this is my, no, honestly, I'm half joking. This is why I'm actually very far apart with Jenna. I was thinking plus. I was thinking plus.

I was thinking like, wow. Just because I feel like there's so many ways for the interim title to not become the interim title. Either, like we said, we have some sort of retirement after, you know, no matter who wins, we have some sort of retirement after the Jones-C-Bate fight and then the interim gets elevated to undisputed or, again, they just, I don't know, a vacate, like, it sounds weird to say that they would strip Tom with an interim title, but yes, what are they going to do if John Jones wins, so he's not retiring, disappears for another eight, nine months, like, what are they going

to do? I guess this is why Jeddy is confident that he'll get defended more than once. not. I think there'll be some chicanery so that there are not two heavyweight titles floating around, even though, again, that might be the only thing they can do if John Jones disappears. So I was weird. I was like floating towards plus. I was like plus 175 or something. Maybe I have a, maybe I have a very weird look at it. I just feel like it won't, either it won't get defended more than once or it won't be interim for long. I think that's my, that's my only, my only issue with it. I did also forget that earlier this year, John Jones allegedly assaulted a drug tester.

Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. I think that doesn't count as arrest or anything, right? I mean, he's not arrested, but. He was not arrested. Some people got that headline wrong, not us, not in May fighting.

Not arrested, but it's not great. And to Michael Sparks in the comments, I realize that I've said this several times, and it's perhaps not grammatically correct. When I say retired firefighter, I do not mean that he is a retired firefighter. I mean a retired fighter, I mean a retired fighter who is now. a firefighter because he doesn't fistfight people for money anymore. He hasn't done it in three years. Yeah.

And by the time this fight happens, we'll be knocking on the door of four. And if it doesn't happen, they're going to be over four years, which is crazy. But the UFC will probably keep going back to this. Don't say that. You know the last time you won a fight? Does anyone remember the last time old Steve Mietchich won a fist fight? Yep. March 2020.

Oh, no. No. It was before that. DC. That was in 2020. Sure is. DC. Yeah, that was bad. August. Just inside this decade.

He's got one fight this decade. When was that fight? 2020. What year anniversary is coming up? Was it August? August 2020? August, yeah. That was the Sterling Jan co-main event, was it not?

Sounds right. Is that card? We could go down memory lane. Jose would know. Maybe he's a machete. No, no, no. That would, that, oh, you know what card that was, guys? The co-main event was actually Cheeto Vera beating Sean O'Malley.

That's the last time Steve will beat somebody. Wow. And he beat Daniel Cormier, who I love and respect, was old and clearly washed. Like, come on, man. Well, I got to tell you, I'm very excited to where we're, we're, we're going next because what what what what better topic to go to after the heavyweight division than going to this one point for round three goes to it's jem as shoe i mean he just keeps teaching us things and giving us vital information that we can bring to the everyday life shop or the bar stool

you have a phd in stepey jones and the heavyweight division at this point i think you have studied it you have the heavyweight division i might people have come to you asking for questions providing their own answers, giving you stuff to think about. You've had to talk about this whole situation a lot over the last more than almost, I think, a year, at least a year. I mean, it's over a year. It's got to be close to that. And that's the thing, like, when I started the chickens aren't goats, thing, I was like,

this would be a fun gimmick for a couple of months and then they'll finally fight. And it's like, actually, they're just never going to fight. Like, I thought we were all under the impression, like, ooh, they might fight an international fight week because, like, John should be ready. by then. And it's like, what if we just wait? John's ready. It's fine. We're just going to wait. Okay. Like it's happening. Well, I'm Nilai Patel, editor-in-chief The Verge, and Decoder is my show about big ideas and other problems.

We've talked a lot about generative AI on the show lately, which is a very big idea that is causing quite a few problems. And one thing we keep hearing about over and over again is that generative AI is causing a lot of problems in schools. There are a lot of people out there, including many of the listeners of the show who email us, who are worried about the obvious problem, students using chat GPT to cheat on assignments. But when our team went and poked at the story, they found that the issues in education with AI go a lot deeper, to the very philosophy of education itself. If this technology becomes more ubiquitous, we'll have courses created by AI, graded by AI,

with submissions from students absolutely generated by AI. So it begs the question, what are we even doing here in higher ed? This episode is presented by Salesforce. Support for this show comes from the audible original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left.

Roscoe Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

the downloaded two ghosts in the machine available now only from audible john and stepe has not happened yet but darren till boxed this past weekend gentlemen i don't know if you're aware of this social knockout three darren till first fight since he was stopped by the current the now current ufc middleweight champion drickus duplec at ufc two eighty two d'n till boxed mo moody who is a like a four-fight pro-M-A fighter. He's fought for UAE Warriors a couple of times. Not a great name, but fight ends in weird fashion. T-K-O, perhaps a punch to the back of the head or two. And then all hell breaks loose. There's a skirmish.

There's a brawl. And this became like the second biggest story in combat sports, at least on our website, because it was so ridiculous and crazy. So I will begin with you, AK. when it comes to Darren Till and what we just saw this past Saturday, would you call this the beginning

of the resurgence or the continuation of the decline? Oh, it's definitely not a decline. It's definitely not a decline. I don't know. When you said resurgence, I don't know if I can say resurgence, but if I have to choose between the two,

it's more resurgence than a decline. There's a Russian promotion, MAP motion. If anyone who follows Matisic on Twitter, they'll be very familiar with the answers of this promotion. Even if you don't follow him, you've probably seen the clips.

He's uploaded that have been re-apploaded by other sites on Twitter, Instagram, etc. Shout out, Matisse. It's called Hardcore Fighting Championship. This is Russian promotion. And it's very well known because it's always, before the fight,

there's like a brawl on the stage. Guys are like flying knee, K-Oing each other before the fight, like are their corner men or something on the stage. After the fight, there's brawls, guys cutting crazy promos, throwing microphones at each other. And I'm very confident

a lot of it is pre-planned. and staged and, or at the very least, that everyone involved was sort of pushed to do these things. Like, hey, you know, if you feel like, you know, kicking the guy in the nuts after the fight, we're not going to find you for it. We're just saying wink, wink. So that's hardcore. If you've seen those clips, you've probably seen hardcore fighting championship.

A lot of this other promotions out there, I think people saw the fake proposal as well. Sorry, it was a proposal. I don't know if it was fake. And then the guy got rejected. The fighter, this clip went viral. I believe it was staged. I'm very, very confident it was staged. I don't have any proof.

I'm just saying there's a lot of European promotions that do this kind of wacky stuff and they get clicks, they get clicks, they go viral I'm talking about on the show right now. Where I am more cynical man, I would suggest that what happened at the end of this Darren Till and Moody fight may have had a little bit of staging

because I'll be honest, I knew the fight was happening during the week. I mean, listen, guys, we have meetings, we talk about stuff that's coming up during the weekend. If it wasn't for that, I probably wouldn't have known about it. As the day approached, I did not remember that Daryntel was boxing because we had the Mazadal Diaz stuff happening. And it kind of just in my mind got lost to shuffle. It wasn't until this clip sort of circled out.

I'm like, oh, yeah, Darryantel also boxed. And now, as Mike said, everyone's talking about it. It did very good traffic for our website. I managed to do good traffic for a number of websites. We had Derintel pop up in the May hour. That maybe would have happened even if that had that moment hadn't happened. But I'm not entirely sure. Like, if he just wins a boxing match against this guy who no one's heard of,

and I know Darren was supposed to box, uh, Julio Sorz Chavez on the July 20th card, the Jake Paul Tyson card. Um, so he has to take what he'd get. If he beats this guy by a decision or something, we are very much not talking about it. Um, it's certainly not a BTL topic. Like I said, maybe he appears on the mayor or maybe he doesn't. But the clip was so, uh, so eye-catching. Again, anyone, anyone in the combat sports fear,

It's very hard not to see it. It's just a party matter that really thinks that this was, again, if not rehearsed, encouraged, that there was some chaos encouraged. The ending was very weird. It's somehow still a TKO, even though, like, Darren Till himself acknowledged it. Like, yeah, I caught him in the back of the head. And then the guy, it looked like he couldn't continue. But then he gets a TKO win because he couldn't continue.

Everything about it is very strange. I'm a big pro wrestling guy. People know this. I know carny behavior and shenanigans when I see it. This was pretty carny to me. So to answer the question asked, I do think this is part of a resurgence. I do think it's a calculated part of a resurgence. And Darren Till really could not have gotten more publicity this weekend after losing his

original fight with the July 20th fight. So just gets us no name. And we're talking about him. And I think people do want to see him box. Again, it's sort of brought back the talks of everyone's So once you can fight Mike Perry someday, we're saying, hey, maybe he fights the Mosvidal. Like, he's talked about fighting Mosvado or Diaz, right? He's back in it.

So if it's between resurgence and dip, it is clearly a part of resurgence. Do you agree with that, Jed? I do not. I mean, good for him. Got a headline. Kind of, I mean, AK didn't hour I'd say it, but it kind of sort of along the lines of, this feels like this, might be a bit of a work. Maybe this was, you know, a bit of shenanigans may have been afoot here as a way to kind of drum up interest on an otherwise empty weekend.

And credit to them, because it certainly did. Obviously, people tuned in for that. And I'm not saying that Darren Till is not going to get big opportunities. I think he probably will. Maybe Mosswoodall, they do a boxing rematch. Maybe that's something that's in place. here. I just he's just

not going to resurge from anything because he's not good. He's just, Darren Till has he's like a discount variety Nate Diaz where he

has the ability to make people think he is better than he is but when pushes come to shove he has never won the fights that have been needed. Like that's Nate's secret. sauce is he wins fights when it matters. Like he wins a big fight every now and again. Darren Till just hasn't.

So he lost like his last eight in the UFC or whatever. And then he's going here. And maybe he can, you know, string this along, get a little bit more. He's interesting. He has the fun accent. People tune in. But is he going to beat Horamouse for all? Probably not.

Like at some point, you have to win some fights. And I just have no confidence in him to do that at this point in his career. It was really weird because his career has been a fascinating dissent into failure while not feeling like it to large swaths of people. So I'll believe he resurges when he wins a meaningful fight and not a moment until then. All right. I mean, I had more about this, but we got to move on because it's getting late.

We got things to do. So the point for round four goes to AK, great job, two to two. I want to be clear to the commenter. I don't hate Daryntill. Darren Till is not a Michael Chandler who I hate for very specific and good reasons. Or Steepa, who I also hate for very specific and good reasons. Daryntil just isn't good. That's not me hating.

I actually find him amusing. But like, no, he's just not good. Well, it means we're heading to the knockout round, ladies gentlemen. Heading to the knockout round. One question will decide it all. Jed, you are the defending champion. What do you want to do? You want to go first? You want to go second? What are we thinking here? I'll go first. Screw it. Let's, let's fire.

Perfect. I hope it is not what I think it's going to be. I mean, you've literally just mentioned the man's name. And the man decided, you know what? I've been off Twitter for a little while. I haven't really done a whole bunch of things lately on Twitter. Let's come back out and let's knock some rust off, shall we? I am talking about the one and only Michael Chandler, who has just gone and started to quote tweet a whole bunch of people when it comes to different things. So let's run down the last four tweets Michael Chandler just sent.

45 minutes ago, someone named Ron says that Connor McGregor is going to retire Michael Chandler. And Ron said they should do the McGregor-Diaz trilogy. Michael Chandler says, sit down, Ron. Better idea. Me and Nate Diaz fight like real men. while Connor sits on a yacht and watches on pay-per-view in his slippers, then responds to a man named Josh who says Chandler v. McGregor going down September 14th.

Chandler says loading. Dean says, ain't happening. Connor won't fight in the UFC again. Michael Chandler says the new Where's Waldo? The Mac Daddy had a great run, though. And the one that has been making in the rounds, Jed. I-Flow Man says, Mike, what's your strategy against someone like McGregor? to which Chandler responds

and still fear. Let him pull out of the fight and embarrass himself. Be known as the guy who retired McGregor without ever throwing a punch. One minute on the clock, Jed. How do you grade Michael Chandler's Tuesday, almost at Thursday,

on Twitter over the last 45 minutes? Go. That's terrible. He's so terrible. This is, like, again, I don't begrudge him doing what he is doing. I understand the financial benefits. And I'm not even, I have never said that this is stupid of him.

I do find it deeply amusing to me personally. But like, he even starts out, but be like, what if me and Nate fist fight each other while Connor sits back on a yacht? Dude, that's not trash talk. Obviously, that's the better choice. I would rather sit on a yacht than fist fight someone, you idiot. And he goes into, like, it's. never going to happen at the sphere. We already know this. And the last words is the dumbest one possible

of instill fear and let him withdraw. I guarantee you, I do not have like a super high opinion Connor McGregor. There's zero down my mind that he is not he's not fighting Chandler because he's afraid of Chandler. He just doesn't care in the same reason I don't fight my neighbors because I don't care about fighting them. Like you have to be interested to fist fight someone and you are boring man and I go god what a Tuesday I'm so glad the timing of the show is just tremendous okay you know you're a fan of trash talk you're a fan of social media trolling uh Michael Chandler has been doing it more and more over the last month or so

took a little bit of a hiatus maybe for the long holiday week and weekend but he came back I already read them all to you your grade for Michael Chandler's recent tweets and go I'll tell you right now. I'll try to do this right. A plus. All right. A plus Michael Chandler. Great tweeting, buddy. The kids have a say, Mike. They talk about tweeting through it. Michael Chandler is tweeting all the way through this MFer. You know, I mean, I think even he and his team had to know this situation, if it was ever even remotely in their control, is so far out of their control that this is all you can do. You're just going to tweet random stuff. You're going to quote tweet people to steal a line from a great film called Gets. Michael Chandler's just swimming along, man, swimming down. He's leaving nothing for the trip back. If he doesn't get this McGregor fight, it's going to be so embarrassing for him. I know he's right.

There'll be other fights, other ways to make money. He has ways to make money outside of fighting. Like, financially and career-wise, he's fine. But if he doesn't get this fight, he will forever be tied to this horrible, horrible matchup that no one even really wants anymore. So what can he do? Just keep tweeting through it.

A plus Mike, lean into this. it, don't let us bring you down. I mean, you're not bringing anybody down, A-K. A-plus. Never, A-plus. Very positive. A-plus plus if I can. And still feel. Dead is so happy.

We should just live stream the rest of the day and we'll read Michael Chandler's tweets all day to Jed and just have it to have them. If Conradiger does, just say, you know, guys, I'm actually retired. There's not a human being alive other than Michael Chandler who will say he's the man who retired Connomer Cricker who like yeah I guess Dustin Poire really did a number on

Connor he could never come back from that catastrophic leg injury and then Chandler finished him off Chandler finished him off Jay's with the shove on tough like what what are we doing like if you're gonna you got shoved he was the shabee and here like here's the big issue this is like fundamentally he's on the right path of The only way you're going to get this to happen is to just piss Connor off by by mocking him. But like, you can't even do it this way. Like, it's so toothless. There's nothing here to be like.

That's his brand. That's Connor upset about this. Like, again, just balk at him like a chicken. That's better. Like, that is a better way to do this. It's so useless. This is the real King of Cringe right here. All right.

Henry Suhudo has like, you know, he branded himself the King of Cringe, which was great branding, by the way. This is the real King of Cringe. Henry Sue has nothing on how Michael Chandler has handled the situation over the last year. It's a great point. Nothing on it. And you know what? If you're the real Cainter Cringe, you don't have to say it. So you just do it.

It's a good job, Mike. That's the thing. That's a great point, AK, because Suhudo, like, was in a bit. Like, he was doing the cringe bit. Yeah. This is just Michael Chandler speaking, like, from his chest with his whole heart, he, like, on ironically says don't disrespect me with

your pity being boldened by me. I instill fear. What is happening? How do you interact with him interpersonally? What is like, what do his neighbors think of Michael Chandler? Because I'm sure he's a perfectly fine neighbor

but like, do they hang out? Because he just talks so weird all the time. God, the Henry Suhudo thing is great. You get like you could literally read between Henry Zahudo's Twitter lines. Like, you know, just by a tweet exactly what he's thinking and what he's trying to do. It's amazing. Either he's being cringe or he's trying to get a job on the UFC broadcast desk.

I mean, it's just incredible. It really is incredible. How clear. You can't do G-rated trash talk to Conner McGregor. It just doesn't work. The new Where's Moldo? What are he doing? Who is this for?

Casey is here, which means we probably have a winner. Please tell me Michael Chandler was one of the voting options because that would be the best. That would actually be terrific. No, no, no, no. Unfortunately, it was just the winner was, I mean, just between Jen and AK, but we do have a winner. It was a blowout today, not even close.

with 70% of the votes, your winner today is Jed Mishu. 70%. What? This is, this is, it was a 10-7. It was a 10-7. It was a 10-7.

It was a 10-7. You know? Yeah. 80s. I don't think is reflective. The whole, I got a lot of good categories for me. You know, it's like being in California with the judges. I got a John Jones category. I got Michael Chandler for the final.

Like that's in my wheelhouse. It's my brand. So I think it was closer than the scorecards indicated for sure. Yes. Jed, any final thoughts for the peeps before you go on vacation? No, I'm good. Just, you know, Eminemfighting.com. You're doing God's work out there.

I didn't have to follow any of the nothing happening this past weekend. And I feel like I did. I woke up. I knew everything. I'm going to do exactly the same this weekend. And there's no chance I watched Denver live. So keep doing you. You guys are great.

And Lewis Hamilton wins a race. Let's go. F1, baby. A.K., how are you feeling about this? Do you feel like you're in California right now? No, you know, I feel good. I feel good about my performance. The people let, you know, it's like steeply said.

It's just shut the fuck up, you know, because clearly they don't know what they're talking about. And there you go. hang it hang it right up there uh i'm like i said i'm with cissy bay i get it i really know how he feels right now is out of my power the situation's out of my power what can i do you know you just do your best show for the show up you get and you fight john jones that's what i did today so um congratulations to jed uh people if i if i look out for our roundtable uh midyear awards coming out later this week so we'll have that we'll have a little podcast action and uh jed have a great

vacation. Yes, I think Jed might be able to sneak into that podcast as well before he takes off. Hit the music, Casey. We are done. We'll be back next Thursday, all right? I know I said that last week, but we'll legitimately be doing a Thursday show next week because we'll have to recap UFC. Denver. We need an extra two days to digest everything that happens in Denver.

Plus, might be the return of Cannonball Jed next Thursday. Oh, maybe the return of Cannonball Jed. And, of course, the big one, we have to talk about. Vernigerobo versus Amanda Lemosch at the world's most famous APEC. And the guest will squeeze in Jake Ball versus Mike Perry, what's going down as well. But back next Thursday for AK for Jed, I am Mike Heck, the iconic voice of Ashland takes you home. Good night. Love y'all.

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