MMA Fighting - BTL | Dricus du Plessis & Zhang Weili Shine At UFC 312, Next For Sean Strickland, UFC Vegas 102

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

UFC 312 will go down as a mostly forgettable UFC event, but the dominance of champions Dricus du Plessis and Zhang Weili will carry on into their next potential matchups, while the MMA community is wondering where Sean Strickland goes after a lopsided loss to du Plessis in the main event. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses the fallout of UFC 312, the lopsided nature of du Plessis and Zhang's victories, and where Strickland and strawweight title challenger Tatiana Suarez go from here. Additionally, topics include the overall lackluster response to UFC 312, the promotion returning to the APEX on Saturday for UFC Vegas 102 headlined by Jared Cannonier vs. Gregory Rodriguez, other news and notes in the world of MMA and combat sports, and much more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Morning Kombat's Brian Campbell. Follow Mike Heck: @m_heckjr Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand, new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. And thanks for being here with us on this Valentine's Day Eve as we're here to increase your love for M. May or perhaps make you load it like the X that got away. But we just had UFC 312 five days ago in the land down under. The UFC is

back at the world's most famous apex this Saturday with some middle weighty goodness plus some news and notes on the docket. But before we get into that, let us introduce the panel because fun will be had first let us say hello to the hot take kid from mhmap fighting dot com mr no gray area himself the best climber in m m m m m m m m m m m m ms. Mr. all gimmicks needed himself jed mshoe where is he there he is hi jed hey guys how's it going excited to be here thanks for having me and there's the horns we are ready to go and his opponent back on the show, an enemy to all gas station hot dogs and 60 second shot clocks. A great New Englander, though, and one half of the morning combat tandem, you might find him doing some Randalls,

perhaps being in the box, or giving you an experience that only this man can on his YouTube channel. I'm talking about the one and only. Brian Campbell, Beastie. Welcome back, my friend. You know, people always ask me, Mike, am I excited to be here? You betcha. All right. You know what I'm saying? Look, that was pretty good. I'll give you that old VC. That was awesome. Yeah, we confirmed today.

I was like, he asked me about the time, and I said, you betcha. And he sent me just the best Betchkeheya photo in response that I've ever seen. I was laughing while I was driving. Probably shouldn't look at it while I was driving a motor vehicle. But, hey, it's South Carolina. So let's get into this thing. And to kick us off,

like to mix things up a little bit on the show. We're going to play a fun game of fill in the blank in regards to UFC 312 this past Saturday in Sydney. We had two very interesting title fights on paper. They ended up being very non-competitive in execution, but the rest of the card left a lot to be desired on paper and the public sentiment in execution. My opinions may vary to some degree. So BC, let's start with you and show your work, please. Fill in the blank. UFC 312 was blank.

Mid, sub-mid, apex-like, watered down, and hopefully not a message regarding the future, because if this is how the non-major paper views are going to continue to look like, good Lord and good luck. Thank you. Chad, UFC 312 was blank. I'm not even sure how to spell me but that's kind of what it was right like we did our our by now usual post pay-per-view kind of column and I wrote and I still hold this to be true that card is exactly what it advertised itself to be all it was it delivered exactly what you

expected so if you paid 80 bucks you can't be upset because you knew what you were getting into It did not under or overachieve. The top two fights were the draw to be here, much like a boxing card, frankly. There's one, maybe two fights, and the rest is filler. That is what this card was. We knew that going in. And the top two fights, while not being like on it, that competitive,

let's just call it what it is, neither of them were particularly competitive. They were still high-level mixed martial arts, and we got to see two of the best fighters in the world established themselves firmly as such. Jiang Wai Li is now our number one pound for pound female fighter in the world in the NBA fighting global rankings, the only rankings that matter. This is the performance that got her over the top, frankly, for us.

It is a performance that I think established her as the greatest straw weight of all time, one of the five greatest women's fighters ever to lace up the gloves. That is meaningful, even if it wasn't the most exciting thing, that is still substantive that you got to witness and be a part of that. And then the main event was certainly lackluster, not nearly as interesting as their first matchup was, but this was a true coronation because there was some question about Trichus 2 plus he's still remaining. There were still doubters that said he lost the first time to Sean Strickland. Ain't nobody doubt in that now.

The only question is can he beat Hamzot? And so these set up important fights, they were meaningful fights, and the rest of it was exactly what you thought it was going to be not meaningful. some of it was more interesting, you know, than others. Shout out to, um, shit. Jimmy Crute and Hadoffa Balato, who were far more fun than I kind of thought that fight would be. But if you dropped 80 bucks, you knew where you were spending, I think you got exactly market value for that.

So, me. Okay. Now in the main event, Jed, you mentioned him, Drickus Duplice. He is one of your favorites. You have not hid this from anybody. Dominate Sean Strickland over 25 minutes. This is just an asswopin. DDP now has two successful title defenses

and we'll likely have a showdown with Hamza at Chimayev next. Jed, fill in the blank. Drinkus 2 plus C is the number blank pound-for-pound fighter in MMA right now. Ooh, let me pull up my rankings because I want to confirm before I just say something that's incorrect on where I have him ranked. Yeah, he's number four, which is what I have him ranked at. He's the number four pound-for-pound fighter in MMA.

I think if you want to move him a little bit lower, because there is currently a crop of really talented fighters with impressive win streaks and sort of just impressive resumes, kind of all muddled in that top six, you can kind of move him lower however you feel. To me, I have him for him, Islamogachev is the clear and away number one. I think that that should be pretty inarguable.

Then Iliate Tepore and Alex Pereira are numbers two and three for me. I also think most people are kind of aligned with that, that maybe you swap those around but ilias 2024 is incredible he knocked out two guys who basically don't get knocked out in our two of the three greatest featherweights of all time and Alex Pereira at this point what else is there to say it I think I'm really comfortable with those three being like a slight tier jump above that sort of next crew next crop which is the Marab the Tom Aspinall the trick is two plus C the Alhontia panosia like those four dudes all have done

great things in impressive fashion. And so you're really picking nets, you're kind of parsing between them. For me, Duplice finishing Rob Whitaker, finishing Israel-Discna, that elevates him above Marab, who I have is my number five, I think.

Maybe I have Pantosia's number five, but the way he is going about these, putting stamps on it, absolutely dominating Sean Strickland for five, four rounds, clean sweep on the cards for, I think two of the three judges. Like that's to me I have him as number four Because his run in the UFC has been so spectacular

If you want to drop a little lower You know you want to favor Marab's names Sure you want to favor the fact that Tom Asperol kills everyone in 37 seconds sure But as long as in the top seven you're not screwing up And I think you can go as high as four And be totally justified BC one name you did not hear Jedmishu say

Was John Jones I'm sure Dana White will be be very upset about this, but in your opinion, after this win over, Sean Strickland, DDP is the number blank pound-for-pound fighter on planet Earth. Well, I just so happen to do a top 10 for CBS sports when it comes to pound for pound in MMA. And I currently have him at number five, moving up one spot from number six. But the big change for me was dropping John Jones back another spot for what we understand to be a large stretch of inactivity enablement and fighting a guy who could barely stand.

Sorry, Steve, I'll take that back. But look, this is really about DDP and his evolution as a fighter. Obviously, we can talk about how he's called by his peers, the same guys he finished as the best shit fighter in the world. But this guy has rounded out his game. But most importantly, he's a freaking winner. I mean, I don't care if you still hold against him. I'm the real champion of Africa or even hold against when him and his coach open-mouthed kiss.

Ultimately, though, those are just details in the experience. of Duplice. What we're getting from him is really what we want to see out of all of our champions. He gets better at a rapid pace every fight. He's in crazy, great shape, five-round stamina, even though that was something we questioned coming in. But he's also coachable. He's got a great IQ. He made the adjustments after a close and very debatable first fight between them where Sean Strickland didn't. And I know we're going to talk about Sean Strickland more. And I know now he's revealing injuries and setbacks. and maybe that makes it more understandable. But whether Strickland came in 100%, 60%, what have you,

when you get 100% of DDP right now when he's at the top of his game, he never stops coming forward. He's got awkwardness and variety. But most importantly, confidence and that clutch gene. He knows how to win close fights and get his hand raised. Yeah, let's give this guy his flowers. Look at the run of former champions that he's running through. Now two wins over Strickland.

and look at the body of work. I mean, look at the body, too. The body is a wonderland. This guy is an absolute stud and real champion. And, you know, I'm glad Jed was ahead of the game because you'll remember me on this show when he was fighting Whitaker saying there's no paths to victory. I've come around.

I've been humbled. I've been taught. Turn taught. Well, I'm typically turned. But I've been taught that this guy is someone that is legitimately for real. And I'm impressed with what he's doing out there. Yeah, that's just got to make you feel good, right? When you hear that, you're getting your flowers too from Brian Campbell.

So I'll never forget that show. Brian called you some things, maybe an idiot. I don't really recall. I met all of that part. Yeah. No, the true joy I feel outside of watching my medium adult son just turn everybody on it. Because everybody is in, it really hit when Casey finally was like he's going to be fighter. of the year.

Like this year, it's like, yes, I converted Casey to this. It took forever to get Casey to be like, because Casey was the last hold out of. He's so bad. Like he's winning, but it's so bad. Casey was like me with Brian Ortega. Like he keeps winning, but he sucks. And I've converted him. So once I got Casey on board, it's, I am flying high right now on this one.

Jed, how big is, because obviously, 2025 the UFC with the new fan base and how they're acquiring new fans it is way different than it was six, seven, eight years ago, even five. How big in today's UFC is Drinkist Duplacy versus Hamza Tchamayev? That's pretty big as far as today's UFC goes. Like, I think just pretty obviously the UFC is not what it once was in the terms of broad cultural popularity. That's sort of what they want, I think, right? They don't want individual stars to be. these massive drivers of things because the driver is the UFC, the three letters, the product

overall. But as far as it goes, like, you can still have some spikes and some gullies or whatever. And Hamzot is a dude who came in with that it factor, was immediately promoted to be something special. We have been thinking we'll get a title fight for literal years now and finally seems like it's going to happen. And Drickis has become a dude. He has gotten over broadly with fans.

He is not super popular. He is not a pay-per-view star, whatever that means in this day and age. But he's getting there because he is, he's got the look. I mean, the man is all-body first team, right? Looks great getting off the bus. Also like a classically handsome individual as well, which frankly helps. He is good on the mic. Like he is clever and biting and sometimes insightful, but also,

sometimes kind of an asshole in a way that people will gravitate to that can make him popular in, you know, the press conference sort of meta that exists. And his fights are always exciting. He is never in a boring fight. Even if you thought he lost to Sean Shirkland the first time, the critiques of that fight being boring are pretty much exclusively people hating because it is ugly. But he is constantly pushing the pace, constantly action, constantly finishing folks. and the ones he is not, it, like, he broke Sean Strickland's nose in six places or whatever. So all of that together makes him something that is very rare in this day and age,

and you give him a foil like Hamzaa Chamaev, who is already popular. That can be one of the bigger fights the promotion can put on outside of a champ-be-champ fight this year, frankly. How big is this fight, B.C.? Like, when it actually comes together, and I know there's going to be trepidation too because of Hamzat Shemayev, how big is this fight? Like when you see the poster and Dana's the screaming into his cell phone announcing it, how big is this? It's going to be absolutely huge.

And I wanted to put the asterisk disclaimer and say, well, it's a hardcore fight. I think it's going to be more than that because Hamzad ever since his 2020 arrival, mid-pandemic, being, you know, fighting often, destroying people, he's been kind of like evil heel Khabib as the foreign villain that has come and dominated. Obviously, his story has had weird peaks and valleys from illnesses to that weight myths or the conspiracies that we like to point around it potentially in that Nate Diaz fight, but he still moves the needle in such a huge way, whether we're talking about web traffic or just the idea of MMA fans go, oh, that guy's different. So on paper, it's a hardcore matchup for us, hardcore. But I think we're getting closer to this really being kicked through the TV screen as something that's going to wake up even more than the hardcores. because DDP's a lot more popular around the world than he is in the U.S.,

but that's rising, the more big names that he takes out in the way that he handles himself. But I think Hamzad, who I have in my top 10 pound for pound, I don't have aspirin. He's on the outside looking in, despite his dominance against second and third rate heavyweights. But Hamza's got has been absolutely destructive against everyone he's come across. This is a fantastic matchup. Is it two unbeaten fighters? Does DDP have losses before the UFC?

Either way, it's two fighters at the absolute peak of their powers. It's one of those great trope situations where it's like the decorated, dominant champion who is now one of the pound for pound best meeting that uncrown champion that everybody's been waiting to get that opportunity. I love the style contrast. I love the personalities involved. Let me rub it all over my body, okay, Mikey, as much as that may have made you feel a little discomfort, I think you understand what I'm trying to say.

I'm jazzed. I'm fired up. This thing kicks me right in the fuel hole. That's one way of putting it. Absolutely. And just how good is Roberto Soldeach is the question we should be asking? Because he is the last man to the Patrick is duplicity back in in 2018. The number three storyline coming out of UFC 312.

DDP is number two. We'll get to number one in round two. BC is Zhang Wei-Lee overcomes a difficult first round. But then just shows her championship level in gusto. It was a lopsided final 20 minutes of her title defense against Tatiana Suarez. A lot of people counting her out, BC, heading in. into this fight. And there are options here for Zhang Wei Li, and there's options in multiple weight classes, it seems. So Brian Campbell, fill in the blank, Zhang Wei Lee's next fight

will be against blank. Valentina Schiuchenko. I understand. I understand, Michael, how much that's a tough thing for Minotferro to hear, because she's done everything asked of her to remain unbeaten and essentially be stuck in that number one position waiting for that Grasso-Shevchenko feud to finally end, which it did at the sphere last fall. But don't forget what Waley revealed this week while talked, or revealed during fight week while talking to Michael Bisping. She said that after

she beat Jan Shan on at UFC 300, she was 100% ready to move up to 125. And according to her, the plan was for her to fight Shevchenko, or fight the winner, excuse me, of Grasso Shevchenko. It ultimately was a minor injury to Shevchenko that sent Wayley back down

to 115. The timing was perfect, of course, because Tatiana Suarez finally found that window, even though it was 18 months removed from her last outing, that window where she's healthy and they could make that fight. So you know UFC pulled Tatiana from the schedule fight against Janji Roe, but to make that happen, which I had no problem with. But even though this is a direct front against everything Faroe has done, what did Whaley prove on Saturday, right? So much. Everything Jed said to start off the show is probably true, even with those two losses in 2021 to Rose Namibunis. She's 10 and O against everybody else in

the UFC not named Nami Unis. And unfortunately, despite my reverence for the fighter, Rose has taken some big steps back of late. So could Waley be the best 1-15 or ever? Certainly. Is she the pound-for-pound queen at the moment? Yes, she's now number one in my rankings as well after Shevchenko had taken back number one with the win over Grasso. But this is a generational fight between two of the top five best female fighters that we've ever seen. And I'm starting to realign my own judgment of who Waley is and what she's capable of. And what I've I mean by that is if you're going to come out and be mouthy like Jed is often on this show, and maybe I am too, because I did say there was no path to victory for DDP against Robert Whitaker.

But I was saying all week leading into UFC 312 that as great as Whaley is, and I believe that she is, I thought Tatiana was better. I thought her story was more special, even with the 18 months off, even with missing four years in her prime, what she had done to every incremental opponent she'd stepped up to was pure one-sided dominance. I didn't expect to see what I saw. I predicted Suarez to not only beat Wayley, I thought she might do it easily

because of the mental toughness and the determination. That's still in there, by the way, but what was ultimately a disappointing performance, Wayley, at 35 or 34, if what she says is right about her passport being wrong, either way, this is not an age where people typically get better. She's getting better every single fight, and to hear her say,

the two losses to Rose were the greatest thing that ever happened in my career because they took me to another level. As Floyd Mayweather often says, the proof there is in the put in because she nearly won the Rose rematch after turning her game around and adding grappling. And all she's done since then was routinely level up. She's built like a tank. She's got incredible stamina, a great mind. She's beloved by everybody. And to hear Dana White say all the things about the needles that she moves and social media across the globe and obviously as the face of that Chinese market that UFC is desperately trying to get into. The idea of her and Shevchenko are one of the rare remaining fights in this era of women's

MMA where the depth has seriously gone down the tubes that you must see, that you must make time for. I thought Suarez versus Wei Li would be on that level, but Wei Li was even better than I thought. Should she defeat Shevchenko and become a two division champion? and I didn't think someone could get through that quickly, but I think she has an argument to best Amanda Nunes and Chris Cyborg in the overall women's goat competition because look at the name she's beat,

look at the way she's done it, and if she moves up and wait and on day one beats one of the greatest of all time in Shevchenko, yeah, we're talking about somebody super, super special. I didn't realize that she still had that 35, or that she was even better than I thought she was. Shout out to Wei, hard not to love everything that she brings to the table. Jed, we knew the second we saw the camera on Zhang Wei Li when she walked to the octagon.

We knew that Tatiana was toast. We knew it was just one of those things. But look, I know you love lots of things, long walks on the beach, champions of one division moving up to challenge for a championship in another division. But we've heard Zhang say she wants Valentina. We've heard Zhang tell Michael Bisbing told me as well that the plan was for Zhang to go fight the winter. of Valentina versus Alexa Grasso prior to this fight being booked with Tatiana Suarez. That's why she was at the spear for that fight. And she went back down to 115 and she said, I want to go back up.

Even Dana-Way was like, eh, we might have to find the answer to the question who the best pound-for-pound woman's fighter is and just have them fight each other. So, Zhang Wei v. Blank. Next, what happens? I think. I'm just going to speak what I want to happen into existence because I, I, well is this probably what's going to happen probably not but screw it i'm rooting for justice in this freaking world and the justice is manorffiro fights valentin is chenko if there is a human being alive

who has earned a title fight it is her like there was no one more deserving of a shot at the champion other than maybe tom aspinall if you're counting john jones as a champion which are not because he's a fake-ass champion tommy is the real champ she deserves her day in court. And to put that off for any reason at this point is outlandish, particularly because Zhang has people she needs to fight or can fight. Needs to is where you yourself, Mike, I listened on to the next one. She'll just run over Vienna Janjaroba.

She might. But also she might not because that's why they fight the freaking fights, guys. We all thought all of us, everyone on this call, Everyone that has a brain and functioning cerebral cortex and this universe thought that Sean Stricka was going to get dummied by Israel Dyssinia. And it didn't happen. Like, they fight the fights for a reason. Vyna Jiroba has earned a fight. I know that she now is scheduled to fight Janjan.

If she gets past Janjan, on, I think she is undeniable. Like, you have got to let that woman fight for the strawweight belt. If she doesn't, then okay. Then there is not a obvious contender and Zhang can just hold on and then bump up.

or the simple clear answer to this problem, Zhang fights vuna Jani Jani Ranao, Valentina fights Minal. The winner, if both win, then they can fight. Or if Zhang just wins and she can fight Mnall at that point. Like that is fine. But we have got to get to a place where if there are viable contenders, they get their day. There's no reason not to other than the hubris to believe

that what we think is certainty, that, oh, I am certain. that this person will not win the fight so fuck them they don't even get to try their career is meaningless because i at home believe they don't deserve it and it would be more fun to mash my action figures together with the champ versus champ fight eff that shit virena gets her title fight and then at the end of the year we can talk shivchenko versus jang if both parties hold up there into the bargain i mean just passion passion outstanding we got Exactly.

Hey, you know what, Jed forgot to mention that McKenzie Dern's finally coming off a win. If Waley stays, she's going to get the next title shot because she beat Verna. So get it through your skull, Jed, all right? Look, as one of the remaining people on McKenzie Dern Island, I wouldn't be upset with that. I am not here to tell you she deserves a title fight in the way Viena deserves one. Jed, this is also the entertainment era. Okay, it's the TKO era. all right there is no such thing as who's next in line there is no such thing as who deserves it

if ari and dana want jones steep a too they're going to get jones steep a too all right i mean that's why i prefaced it all by saying this is what will happen this i am speaking truth to power i am putting this into the world because it is what should happen well the good news is no matter who's champion or who's not champion or who goes up to what division or not. If Vernad Jani Jani Joroba takes care of business against Janjan, Janan, she will fight for some sort of title in her next fight, whether it's a rematch with McKenzie Dern for the interim belt,

or it's for the actual belt of Zhang Vacades. She still puts herself in a position. Manor Fioro, Yoser. Tough spot for her to be in, potentially. You wrote it in the grade column, Jed, that she might be the biggest loser of all of UFC 312 because of how this all played out. Such bullshit.

We will see how it all plays. lays out. But we have to talk about the biggest story coming out of UFC 312 and we'll get to that next. The point for round one goes to, I mean, props to BDC for the props. One nothing. Well done. I mean, when you actually bring out the action figures and start clapping them together. Yeah, just brilliant strategy right there. What are you going to do now, Jed? Yep, yep. Yeah, what are you going to do? I'm just going to stew in my anger that like, I'm not even a man off your fan. Like, she's fine. Like, I don't have any personal attachment. tour. It's just ridiculous.

They were like, oh, there's, there are clear contenders in both divisions. F that. Let's do champ v. Champ. It's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Well, I have a feeling, Jed, that we might have another somewhat similar discussion about champ versus champ fights, but that's a topic for another moment in time on this program. Because we have one more fill in the blank, gentlemen, and then a lot of other things to talk about because the biggest story since Saturday in the headlines is not Trigis Duplacy. It is not Zhang Wei Li.

It is not Alexandra Tuporia. It is Sean Strickland, who was dominated in the main event. He's been taking verbal thrashings from everybody, it seems, fighters, fans, et cetera. But the future of Sean Strickland, the fighter, is a very interesting topic right now. And we're going to get there more so in a minute. But Jed, I'll begin with you. And you can answer this and take this. fill in the blank any way you want. After UFC 312, Sean Strickland is blank.

Oh, man, that's really open-ended, Mike. After UFC 312, Sean Strickland is declining, I guess, will be the word I'll choose to fill in that particular blank. What I mean by that is I don't necessarily think his skills looked any worse than we've ever seen. I think they looked pretty close to exactly the same. But as we talked about in the buildup to that fight, as a many people sort of sussed out, Strickland doesn't change. His game has been largely the same since he rose to prominence. And Drickus 2 plus he does.

Like he is very good at adjusting game plans. And we saw that in the fight. Like he came in with a multitude of plans to take away Strickland's two best weapons and then utterly defying Sean Strickland. He had no ability to fight without his jab and his job. deep and those were mostly removed from him during the fight. So I don't think that he is declining physically, but two losses to the current champion certainly hit.

I don't say that they're prohibitive, right? Like if Hamzot wins, Sean Strickland is suddenly very much back in the mix for a title fight. But the robustness with which the community really turned on Sean Strickland in the aftermath of this is pretty telling, right? and not like, they're not turning on him for saying some of the abhorrent shit that he says. They're turning on him for saying like the normal fight stuff that he says and then not delivering that. The amount of people who came out were like, this is the dude who shouted to the death Dutchman and then tepidly jabbed and had no answers and lost. Like that's people are are cottoning on to the schick and the difference between what he says and what he does.

and that is broadly bad for his image. And then this whole Eric Nixick thing has caught me a little bit by surprise, frankly, and seems weird of Nixick kind of coming out and being like, yeah, he didn't fight great. He didn't do the stuff we were telling him to do. And Sean Strickland, I kind of think Sean Strickland is maybe even right

in being upset by that, right? Like what Nixick said is true, but also you don't really throw your fighter under the bus in that way. And so for him to be like, hey, yeah, Nixick's probably not going to be in my corner. I don't have to hold a personal beef with him. But, you know,

he chose to air out our stuff. And that's not cool with me. Like, it's kind of in the right there. But that's also just all of this is a pile of bad for him, especially because I do think Nixick is one of the best coaches working in the sport at this point in time. Granted, Sean's not listening to him.

How much does that really change? But the vibes are really, really bad. Like the entire vibes following 312 are tremendously poor for Strickland in a way that I didn't anticipate. Like I thought he was going to lose. I didn't think he would lose and it would feel this kind of way that like suddenly Sean Strickland is on the verge of not even mattering anymore. And I don't know if that will end up being true. He's certainly young enough. This division isn't great.

But like he feels in a precarious position right now, which I did not expect heading into 312. Welcome aboard Air Canada. Rocky's vacation, here we come. Whoa, is this economy? Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet. Fast free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing the game.

It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice. Air Canada. Nice travels. Wi-Fi available to Aero plan members on equipped flights. Sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply. See air Canada.com.

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Well, it's certainly in need of a coach, but I think he's also now in need of a, like a little bit of a public facelift in terms of his reputation after that performance. But I think he's already doing that from commentary in the microphone from DC after the loss to putting out that video where some things he said, I did take to heart. I mean, in some ways it's like, I can't believe I'm out here defending Sean Strickland because he so often aggressively attempts to agitate everyone possible by saying ridiculous things. But when he says, look, my nose was broken three different times in that round, and I stuck it back in and kept going the distance and kept fighting.

And that's true. I do applaud that. He didn't just say, yeah, you know what, I can't do it anymore after it was a fight. That, to be honest, none of us really wanted. Yes, the first fight was close. Yes, you could have scored it to Strickland. But it was Chameyev's time. We didn't really get an answer.

or an answer on why Chimaev wasn't given this opportunity. But even if you stick to the storyline of DDP needed this fight to leave no doubt, because that was his closest elite fight to date, Strickland's in a hard spot. But here's what I said before he put out that recent video explaining the injuries, the setbacks, the what that did to his confidence. I mean, he was very honest, which I actually appreciated. I said that I wish fighters were more honest and came out after fights

and said exactly what happens. Too often people call every time you say something afterwards that's an excuse. We know what's going on in boxing the past few years. They're actually adopting something that we take for granted than MMA. That losses are okay. In boxing, maybe because of the Mayweather effective, going 50 and O, it became about protecting that O. And as soon as a fighter takes you out, we're like, oh, yeah, that guy sucks.

He was never that good to begin with. We're starting to see that in boxing where they're accepting losses. I want to see us accept across all combat sports that there are reasons why people don't perform sometimes. And I know you can't always say that when the pressure is on you to go forward with a fight, when you realize I may not ever get another chance at a title. So I have some sympathy here for Sean Strickland from that standpoint. He did fight his face off in there and tried his best. He got dogged by everybody. And then his coach went out of podcast and said what he said.

But I can't stay in that puddle of emotion. Because ultimately, even if he was hurt, we do have this cut and dry thing where we say, like, you signed up for that. the fight. You went in there. And the performance from Strickland with maybe the best coach in the sport trying to will him. A guy who Strickland has routinely said has been one of the biggest influences in his life and career trying to will him to get out of him what would be necessary to win a close fight to where we find out afterwards that even Alex Pereira, who was in the corner, was looking at Nick Sick going like, what's wrong with him? What's happening? In that case, Sean Strickland, he dropped the ball. He had an opportunity to go for it.

Did he go, did fighting through a broken nose, is that going for it? Well, it's certainly honorable. But at the end of the day, he didn't give his best foot forward. He didn't go for broke. He didn't alter his strategy, even as his coach was screaming at him to do so, as he fell into the same patterns of predictability. I'm not here to necessarily clown him for how many times he says, I'm going to go kill you out there.

We're going to fight to the death and then it doesn't happen. He tries to sell fights. He is who he is. He's an elite fighter with a certain style. But to not have the ability or the willingness to go to plan B, C, D, E. Look, do I feel bad in the spot that Strickland's in for himself?

Yes, but I don't take any umbrage with Nixick in this spot. You could say it's a little controversial to air this out publicly, but I think Nixickick legitimately cares about Strickland. I think Nixick's a big part of Strickland finding that confidence in figuring out how to become an elite fighter, and I think it broke Nixick's heart

to watch his own fighter, let it slip through his hands. I also think Nixick was probably thinking this could be the end. for us. So he put that out there as a challenge. Strickling, he could have fielded it any way he wanted to. He chose to move on. He said they'll still be friends, which was a nice gesture. But I don't think Strickland is a victim here. I also think to some degree there were circumstances, but he did sign up to fight. He had an opportunity to turn the fight around potentially in his direction, and he did nothing.

So it is what it is. He needs a new coach. I don't think we'll see him again in the title picture. He's still young enough to improve and be in big fights. But I think him going, so aggressively into this baby face role right now is probably to try to bring back some sympathy toward him because he knows what happened. He knows what really went down in there. I feel for him to a certain degree, but it's his fault at the end of the day. Yeah, the Nixix-Sk stuff. You like totally cool with Nixick stuff? I mean, I wouldn't prefer that angle, but I've got to believe for how smart Nixik is and knowing him a bit that I respect his character, that he felt this was the last move he had to try to wake Strickland up, get him out of his cage, and maybe unlock a greater potential that

he hasn't shown yet because he sticks so rigidly to his style. I don't know, man. The quote of, if Sean wants to fight for money, that's cool. I want to coach world champions. That feels pointedly shitty. And maybe that is not what he intended it as, like certainly. But that, that's some shit that you do. don't say in public if like, I don't know, like that was the one that really got me is.

And maybe you're right. Maybe this is a last desperate attempt to put a fire under Sean Strickland to do something different. But that one brought me the wrong way. Called the 1980s where my little league coaches were all Vietnam veterans with cigarettes rolled up in their t-shirt sleeve. And we came up through something called tough love. And that's sort of what I respond to. So it is aggressive in this millennial era. but at the same time, Strickland's very aggressive,

and I think that was Nick Sick, like I said, one last chance to chase the cage and try to get the best out of him. But I think if you're going to say that publicly like Nixick did, you have to understand that the relationship could fall apart as a result. It did. Nick Sick took his swing to try to help him.

I got no issue with it at the end of the day. Yeah. We'll just disagree on that one. You could say that to him. I'm not even sure you should say that to him, but like airing that out in public feels extremely, extremely pointed, especially like if, you know, assuming what Sean is saying is true that he broke his arm eight weeks out and he was battling a staff infection.

Like the reasons, and they aren't reasons, right, because you go to the fight as you go. Everybody has issues. Everybody has their problems. But to know that that is happening and to then still fire that out after, if that is what he is, if that is an attempt to tough love Sean Strickland into something, I think that that is, one of the bigger miscalculations that Eric Nixig has made in his time. Yeah, that was, that was the line that got me because I watched that entire interview. And I had no issue with anything Eric said.

Like, honestly, I really didn't have an issue with any of it. The one thing that, that shocked me was the whole, he was just basically asked like, hey, are, is there a chance that this is the last time you're cornering Sean? And he's him saying, hey, if, if, if, if, if, John just wants to fight for money and just fight for fighting's sake, then we need to have this conversation. I don't want that. I want to put world titles on the wall. Essentially, I want to coach world champions.

And I do, I do kind of understand where he's coming from because he's logging the miles with him. He has to leave his family and he doesn't want to feel like he's wasting his time. That definitely took through me for a loop a little bit hearing that. I talked to Eric briefly yesterday and something tells me he probably regrets answering some of those questions the way that he did. But I don't want to put words in his mouth either. But yeah, it's just kind of a weird situation, BC. Do you feel like?

I think it's that line with the title. Look, the title on the law on the wall line is probably the bridge too far if there is something seriously. But I don't think he meant it in the way that's coming across, that's coming across very selfish that I only coach winners. And if you don't, if you're not a winner, then I don't have time for you. I personally believe in out of the inside of information. But based on the tone of Nixick and his brawish,

of sharing that publicly, I believe, again, he was at his end of his rope of frustration. To hear Strickland, after the fact in that video admit that the training camp was an absolute shit show, it has to lead you to believe that the coach knew that there was potential issues in this, tried to push his fighter, tried during fight night like hell to get him to go for it, to make some changes, and the fighter wouldn't respond at the highest level. So if our argument is about if you're injured, you shouldn't have fought, that's one thing. you know, the whole T.J. Dillishaw shoulder thing, I get that. But at the end of the day, Strickland showed up, accepted the fight,

sold it like crazy, told everybody who's willing to die in the ring, and then that's what we got. You're open to criticism. And, you know, it's sort of like, it's just cage fighting. So if a coach wants to come out and be strong and heavy-handed in an effort to really motivate his guy, I think it's worth a shot. Yeah, I mean, he's more in a joking way. Eric Nixon telling the story of the Alex Pereira fight is one of the funniest things I've ever heard. We still have a great laugh about that because Sean just listened to nothing that any of them said

and just went out and tried to strike Alex Pereira and got booped, as Jed likes to say. So before we move on to the last Strickland topic, Jed, let me ask you, we've heard from Eric, we've heard from Sean. The next time Sean Strickland fights, do you think cooler heads will prevail? Will Eric Nixick be in the corner if you had to take a guess? my guess is no um i if eric walks his back you know privately talks to him and they mend the relationship that they again sean was very clear that or at least outwardly posturing whether he takes us to hard or not we'll never know would say you know i don't have to hate eric but him air and stuff

out like this was not cool there are plenty of other great coaches at extreme couture who can can corner me my guess is that that is what happens uh And I think that's fine. Like sometimes relationships fall apart for reasons that, you know, makes sense. Neither party wants it. So if that is truly how Nixick feels that he only wants to be cornering fighters with world title aspirations and he no longer believes Strickland has that, then okay, that's just sort of a natural end point to their relationship. And so I'm taking everything everyone is saying at face value right now and operating under the assumption that they're not, you know, there's not some subtle subterfuge or game going on.

And so I'll say no, Eric is no longer in the corner of Sean Strickland the next time he competes. B.C., what do you think? Because I do agree with you when it comes to this isn't Eric being like, I don't want to, Sean just doesn't have the motivation anymore. So I don't want to corner him. Like, I'm done with him. He didn't say that. I think it's, I'm with you where it's more or less of, hey, if you're not going to give your best out there,

then I don't want to fly to fuck in Australia to corner you in a five-round title fight. Like, you know what I mean? So do you feel because of their relationship and how much Eric has helped Sean? And to some degree, how much Sean has helped Eric in realizing how great of a coach he can be? Do you think they mend fences the next time Sean Strickland fights, Eric Nixick is the head cornerman? I think at least one fight they don't. I think they keep a friendship because everything you just said is true.

Sean, and when you hear him talk about the impact that this sport had on him as a person, going nowhere in life, no self-confidence. It's one of the rare sort of things I admire about him when he does sort of drop the stick and do a little bit of that inspirational baby-face thing because it is in some ways a really good story how he turned himself into a legit elite champion. But it was always sort of a curious relationship to begin with

because of how much Strickland outwardly plays this character and acts a certain way, yet Nick Sick is sort of this cool, chill guy. I think they just kind of got it, like I said, at the end of each other's rope in terms of the motivation was no longer getting through. Maybe the injuries were too much, the pressure too much, maybe whatever. But I think Strickland's a proud man. I think this obviously heard him didn't go the direction that Nixick probably had a best case scenario in his mind of how it could go. So I do think they part ways. But if Sean stays in that gym, knowing the character of Nixick, yeah, could they get back together?

I'm sure they could. But for now, Sean Strickland's going to have to look deep inside and figure a few things out. I think his return to the elite picture is a little bit questionable if he doesn't alter his style, because for as great as it was, especially when he leveled up against Izzy and just shocked us at his ability to stand so close to the fire and not get hit, if you can neutralize that as DDP showed in the rematch by watching the tape, by adapting, Sean's going to have to add another layer if he's going to win big fights. And that's ultimately, I think what Nixik is trying to say.

Again, I don't think it's a selfish thing of Nixik saying I don't want to be with losers. I just know if Nixik demands excellence, and if it feels he's not getting it in return, this is what he has to do. Last thing on this, Jed, I'll go to you because, you know, you guys touched on it, mentioned the injuries heading into the fight, sort of being in a tough mental space.

But again, we said this all the time. We said about Alexander Volkanowski, what do you fought, is Lamakachup the second time. You signed the contract. You lost. And none of those things matter at the end of the day. And I agree with that. and I appreciate the fact that he said that

and I think he's overall handled the loss in stride. But now we have to think about where he goes and what's next. So Jed, you are, boy, what a job this is. You are Sean Strickland's manager. You are the men guiding him. What are you telling him right now? What's the next move? Oh, that is so hard because I agree.

I actually do think he's handled this loss pretty well. You know, he has made, zero excuses, which is always the start to handle the loss well, frankly. Managed to say the excuses that could be, but then it's like, but those don't count because I still fought. You know, like in a better world, you would hope that you don't have to say anything and your coach is the one who comes on and says, actually, Sean had a broken arm and a staff infection, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And so you can kind of have that separation. But instead, he's had to do that, done it, taking full responsibility for the loss, put DDP over in his immediate post-fight interview when he stole the mic, I think he's handled that well. Where he goes is a question of physically. Like it seems like he intends to stay at Extreme Couture and just not primarily work with Nixik. I don't think that that will matter because I honestly don't think

where he goes matters that much unless he can go to a gym, to a different gym that can get him out of his comfort zone. Because pretty clearly that is the issue, Strickland. He has developed a style through trial and error and sparring that he is comfortable in. And when that style works, he works. And when that style does not work, he does not win. And he does not have the ability to change. And I don't think any amount of staying at Extreme Couture at this point is going to. He's been there plenty. He has never changed. So if that's not going to get him out of that, the only way for him to improve is to find a gym that will help him do the stuff that

I'm sure Nixig is saying. Like this is not a fit. failure on Nixick and company to teach him new abilities and tools. It is a failure on Sean Strickland to use the tools he is being given. But if he can find somebody who will help him clear that mental barrier to develop his style more, to learn how to throw a right hand that's not dog shit, like maybe. But beyond that, until I see it, I can't believe that will happen. So if I'm in his corner, dude, just do whatever. Keep doing what you do and hope that things keep working out for you.

if Hamzot wins, you're right there back in line to get a title fight sooner rather than later. So, you know, if you can't change, if you can't show personal growth in your fighting ability, which I don't think he can at this point, then keep doing what you're doing and hope, try and pick a good matchup where you can succeed and hope that hanging around enough, you'll get another crack at the belt. What do you think, BC? You're guiding Sean Strickland as heavy as that can. can be. What are you telling him right now? What's the next move? I mean, I'm telling him to figure

out the trainer that's going to work best for him. I'm telling him that if he is going to succeed at this level and not just fight off of his name and trade wins and losses, he's going to have to make some big changes to his game. But, you know, I'd be also telling him, you got to be careful. You got to be careful of falling into the Colby Covington trap. And I don't necessarily mean it from the standpoint of being obnoxious and trying to rattle cages because I do think Sean Strickland for as obnoxious as he is a little bit more genuine than Colby ever was. But what do we think of Colby now after these stretches of him talking his way into big fights, saying a lot of things, and then putting forth performances that really are not

motivating us across the board, then he's got an excuse every time. I think Strickland had legitimate excuses this time. I would like to live in a world, like I said earlier, where we can share those. But I'd also like to live in a world where there wasn't as much pressure on the fighters to carry on when they're obviously not fit to fight. Between the staff infection and the broken bone, he seemed mentally not prepared to fight. So I certainly would ask him to take some time,

figure himself out, get rejuvenated, and come back. In terms of big fights, I still think there's money in an Izzy fight if Adasanya wants to stay at an elite level, although I think a lot of us have tried to retire him after his recent losses, but he doesn't seem to want to go. So there certainly are fights against bigger names that aren't in their best spot in their career that he could revive himself.

But I think before you start mapping out, a path for him back to the title, he's going to have to make some key changes here, even with the acknowledgement for me that he obviously was not 100%. It's going to be an interesting story in 2025. Does he fight Robert Whitaker next? I kind of, like, I get why people would want to see that.

There's some history there. But I got to be honest with you, I don't want to see that fight. Like, I'm ready to see Whitaker. I'm ready to see Strickland fight these young, hungry up-and-comers. I want, if Anthony Hernandez beats the hell out of Brendan Allen next Saturday at UFC Seattle, I want to see Fluffy in there with one of those two guys, because that is, that man is a problem. And I just, I don't want this to be lightweight. I don't want this to

become the lightweight division. This is an interesting division. We used to make fun of middleweight. Four years ago, this was what heavyweight is right now. And now look at it. We got some fun matchups. We've got money to be made in this division. And we got guys coming and coming quick. But we got to give them the chance to see how good they actually are. And Jed was wrong when he said the middleweight division, Mike, was only, you know, not good or decent or whatever he said. I think it's been the hottest division over the past year. There's a group of elite names. We've got two guys lingering around the pound for pound top 10, two great former champions in Whitaker and Otisania and a trio of young fighters in Bo Neckle.

Joe Pfeiffer, Fluffy. You add in RDR. I think there's an interesting mix right now where this is one of the top end divisions, although it's obviously not as deep one to 10 as well. alter weight as Jed's favorite lightweight as Bannam weight, but there's a lot of sex going on at the top, if you know what I mean. Do you? Sexy matches.

I wasn't talking about only fans. I'm not talking about only fans. Sorry. It is exactly the middle division. It is worse than the lower divisions, substantially better than light heavyweight and heavyweight. Well, you know what, guys? Just when you...

Frankly, it's essentially better than all the women's weight class at this point, which are more abundant, terrible. But you know what, guys, when the UFC goes to the world's most famous Apex, what's the first division they call the headline? Middleweight, that's where we're going next. The point for round two goes to Jedmishu, just bringing the heat.

That was really good. There are three middleweight fights this weekend, guys, and the main card. Excited to talk about them. Yes, and we're going to get right there right now. UFC Vegas 102. I bet most of you watching didn't even know that. It is this Saturday, world's most famous Apex.

A shit ton of fights on this card, just a lot of them. And there are some pretty decent scraps on here, BC. Main event, we got Jared Canineer versus Gregory Rodriguez. Co-main event is the best fight on the card, in my opinion. Calvin Cater versus the surging yet on fire since his return, Yusuf Zalal. BC, you're an honest man. How do you grade the UFC's return to the world's most famous? apex? I mean, this is a mid-Apex card, but it's a mid-Apex card trending upward, meaning, yes,

there's a decent amount of fighters and storylines on the undercard that I actually tune in early for, to be fair, but what's most important in this era of fight night apex cards, in my opinion? You've got to have a main event that makes me want to stay up for, that makes me care about. I do care about this one. I understand the situation Cannon-Ear is in, hovering around age 40 coming off of two defeats. But I love the juxtaposition atop this marquee, the standpoint of Canaaner, former title challenger, despite the two defeats, one of them being by knockout, is he as far gone as those would say?

And on the flip side, when we're talking about a hobo cop, who's won five of his last six, is he as good as that run is trying to say. It's his opportunity to get the pass into the elite circle of the division, why cannoneer desperately looks to hold on to his name in that spot. I like the matchup a lot. I think there's a lot of potential for offense, especially if Canaaner can get off of this sort of counterpunching, stalking, but not throwing enough offense.

If this can turn into a real fight here over five rounds, I think we're going to learn a lot. I think we're going to be entertained. Don't cancel your plans for it on Saturday. But if you're around, yeah, this is not one that I'm going to make fun of. Pretty good card here for what we're now expecting from Apex Fight Night Cards with Paul Anka in the celebrity section. the hell is going, Paul Anka, the hell's going on here, UFC.

Jed, you like this one? Were we great in it? Do you want to reveal the score? No, we'll save the score for tomorrow. This card's terrible. It's an apex card. We have returned to the apex. I mean, we've been kind of returning to the apex spiritually the last few weeks anyway, right?

Like, Saudi was okay, but it was a little apexy. 312 was really apexy. and now we've just full apex, like maximum apex has occurred this Saturday. There were some fun fights. The main event is interesting. Probably will be fun because Robocop is always fun. Co-main event is a good fight. Like I'm certainly interested in the co-main event, to your point, Mike.

A couple of other bits and pieces. Some fighters I have various levels of interest in, but broadly speaking, this is one of those cards that I say. If you have other things to do, do them. If your wife, you know, is mad that you spend every Saturday watching fights, this is the Saturday to go Apple picking and bank some goodwill. And tune in to MEPFind.com afterwards and we'll keep you updated on that. But like if you have, if you're debating, ah, should I go out or like, should I go hang out with my friend Saturday night, do dinner or stay in and watch the fights?

Go out. Go, go be social. If you have nothing else to do, sure. That's always, that's kind of the baseline. You got nothing else to do. Worst ways you can spend than watching some fist fights on ESPN Plus. But this is really at the bar of if you have anything else, even if it's not anything like exciting,

but your friends are like, hey, you just want to get together and play board games. Do that. Go play the board games. You don't need to see this one live unless you just got nothing else to do on Saturday night. Okay, the good news is earlier start time, 4 p.m. start. It's pretty sweet. Love when that happens.

Not a 10 p.m. main card. And there are some decent fights. Last thing, because we'll have a preview show about this, that'll probably last about 27 minutes. But Jed, main card, it's a, you know, the top two fights are where we got our eye on. There's some interesting things mixed in there. But the early card, the preliminary, so to speak, what's the fight you have your eye on the most? On the early card, gave me Elijah Smith, Vince Morales.

Elijah Smith is one of my favorite prospects coming off. Most recent season of Contender Series, he's pretty freaking good, man. Like he's got great wrestling, the pedigree, incredibly explosive athletes, super young. Like he needs time to develop and probably shouldn't be in the UFC, frankly, because like his career would just be better served by getting five fights in a year, given how young he is. but Vince Morales is a, he's a veteran. Like he is not going to blow anybody's doors off,

but he knows how to compete. He knows how to comport himself. This is a pretty stiff test for Elijah Smith, just frankly in like this early in his career. But I foresee really big things for Smith. And so if I'm only watching one, it maybe isn't the best fight. There are some other fights that like I think are more, you know,

ah, here's like the Angie Hill-Ketland-Suzza fight. Like it's a really interesting fight. fight, but I am the most interested in seeing how Elijah Smith looks as he kind of moves through the UFC. What's the prelim fight you get your eye on most BC? Yeah, I'm definitely, look, when the Bonefeme brothers show up, I'm going to watch and I'm going to care because of how exciting they were in their initial launch before finding some opposition.

But when I look down at this welterweight matchup on the prelims, Gabrielle Bonefeme, who seems to have recovered from that stoppage loss he had, taking out of Chaos Williams, who's quietly won four out of five. I think we can see a nice style contrast there, and I still want to see if the bone themes in general, and his brother will be on the main card, can continue to be that dangerous finishing threat in their respective

divisions as they continue to climb. Yeah, there are some interesting stories here. I'm excited to see Julia Avila back. She is always a fun scrapper. She did not look great against Misha Tate. I talked to her, said she came into that fight injured. Now, then she got even more

injured in that Tate fight and now she calls herself the bionic woman because she's got like a whole bunch of fake parts in her legs now because of multiple ACL surgeries on both legs and feels good. She feels healthy taking on Jacqueline Cavalcantti who's a minus 700 favorite. That is a head scratching betting line in my eyes. But we'll see how that all plays out this Saturday. But we're going to hit some news and notes, some quick hitters, if you will, in round four. The point for round three goes to. Jed Bishu. Nicely done,

two to one. Thanks and goodwill. Apple picking in February, we could only dream. You can only dream. I mean, let's get into, please.

I didn't say they were good apples. But apples nonetheless, board games, maybe some, some trouble, if you will. Let's get into this. Settlers of Ktan.

Love a good board game. Mouse trap. Outstanding. It's some zany action. It is some, Crazy contraption. Speaking of zany action and crazy contraptions, the Octagon, the world's most famous Apex, is going to host a featherweight main event on April 5th, we reported yesterday.

Josh Emmett is returning for the first time in 13 months since he brutally knocked out and certainly knocks some fucking screws loose in Bryce Mitchell's brain. Josh Emmett taking on Lorone Murphy in a five-rounder at the apex, the go-home show. Jedmishu for UFC 314 in Miami. Thoughts on this featherweight main event, April 5th. I honestly have not really thought a lot about it. So give me some time to think about it at this moment in time. It's a good fight, right?

Like, it's Laurel Murphy is on this incredible tear. Josh Emmett is, what's he ranked right now? UFC has Josh him at rank number eight. So opportunity for Lorne Murphy to kind of elevate into the crop of, oh, legitimate contenders. I just have no idea really what to make of the fight, right? Like what is it going to be in my head? I think Lauren Murphy is probably going to win that fight just based on trajectories. But he's also not been like for as good as he has been in being, I don't think he's

lost in the UFC unless I'm forgetting one. Like for as good as this run has been, a lot of decisions, like there's been a lack of domination in some of these fights. Certainly that's in Barbosa one, even though that was a decision he really took it to him. But you want to see Lorone Murphy like deliver a star making performance to put a cap on it to stamp himself as a legitimate title threat. And we haven't really seen that yet. And Josh, it's a pretty tough dude to do that against.

Like, Ilya didn't really do that. He did end up getting the title fight there, but he is a tough guy to sort of just blow the doors off of. So it's a great test for Murphy. It's not a great build Murphy into a contender fight, I don't think, unless I'm totally wrong than that happened. So it's certainly an interesting fight. Absolutely lacks the panache of like something you would want to be a main event. But hey, sure, why not? I guess this can headline an England card.

BC, Jed, I think he's rating this, and I don't want to put words in his mouth, the classic good, not great. What do you think of this main event? I go very good. Look, I'm the biggest critic of the UFC lately when it comes to matchmaking over the past year, as anyone particularly on the non-paper, well, paper views too. All right, in general, I'm the biggest critic. But the whole point is, give me something at the top of the card that I would care about.

15-0-1-1-Laron Murphy, who had a split draw against, against Zubaira, Tuka Golf, and his UFC debut and has been lights out since, yeah, when he's looking to break into the top 10 of one of the divisions, the sports best division here at Featherweight, and he's got to go through a guy who's coming off an absolute killer performance, albeit a while ago, but a guy who is a battle tested title challenger top 10 guy. Yeah, this is Lauren Murphy's opportunity to prove that he's for real. I think the fight from a style contrast is going to be great to see. It's going to be tense.

There's going to be a lot of potential for violence. And even if Jed frames Murphy as a decision machine of late, when his last four wins, I think, are pretty much escalating. Be Gabriel Santos by split decision. Be Joshua Kobayo when he was on a win streak. Then Edson Barbosa, then Dan Igay. So he's stepping up in competition. He's getting his hand raised. He went five rounds with Barbosa, as Jed mentioned.

This is a great opportunity and a great matchup against a guy who just did the dirty things, as you mentioned, to Bryce. And I wonder now, in hindsight, if I would. would have gone fishing with Bryce Mitchell before this Hitler turn. Probably not, but either way, good for Josh Emmett. This is a big chance for him to hold his relevancy. Could it be sexier, probably, but this is a good style matchup with a good potential outcome. Hey, Jed, let's get back in on it, okay? Brush you, let's go.

Let's brush our teeth with it. Let's get happy again. It's not all dead yet. It's trending that way, but not yet. I demand, I demand, Mike, that pre this event, whatever April, whatever that week is, April 3rd, BC comes back on for the BTL that week, because I promise you, I promise you anything you want. It would be like, yeah, this is a dog shit apex card with one okay fight.

Like, that's it. Like, this is a fine fight. It is an acceptable fight to headline an apex card. It is nothing more than that. Unbelievable. This guy gets a law degree and then it's like, I don't need it. I don't need it at all. You guys have it.

Okay, I don't need it. I don't need it. I'm just saying, come April, I promise you, I'm like, this is a terrible card this weekend. And I'm like, well, I thought this was an unbelievable fight. I thought this was the best fight ever. Like, no, this is a fine fight. It's a fine fight.

It's not an amazing fight. We don't need to give it bells and whistles. It's a fine fight. Well, hey, listen, there's going to be a lot going on in April. We got 314. WrestleMania is coming up. We got Laurel Murphy versus Josh Emmett. I mean, there's just.

So much to get excited. In the comments, it's certainly much more interesting than Vittori deletes A2. If that's your bar, then everything's going to be interesting, man. The whole world is full of wonder and excitement if your bar is that. Speaking of things Jed loves to talk about, B.C., I'll let you set the tone here. Joe Rogan recently said, Ilya, I should just go up to lightweight and fight Islam Makachev, and then they could do Volcanowski versus Diego Lopez at 145. agree or disagree?

I would say outright disagree in terms of what we typically want in the meritocracy and in the standings and Tuporia just became a star in featherweight, so why rush it? Except for this fact. Mahachev and Tupore are one and two pound for pound. They have an opportunity to put them against each other. Tuporia has already said he doesn't see himself hanging around featherweight long. It's a tough weight cut, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we already know that Mahachev is headed north soon.

sooner than later, whether that is a move up to welterweight or even middleweight, which he's also teasing. This is the perfect fight to make right now when we did the morning combat, you know, turn of the new year, what fights would you be most excited for and anticipated? You know, and we said Jones Aspernel, of course, but I said Elia versus Islam is my number one fight, even though it goes against the grain of new champions moving up soon, soon after, and going for a two-division championship. But let's be honest, Toporia is not your normal new champion. He knocked out two guys last year to become fight of the year that were both,

not just living legends, but in the top 10 ball for pound at the time. And what do you want to see when someone kind of comes, not out of nowhere, because we could feel Elia coming for a good time. But when someone gets to this point, when they arrive, and they might be the next big star in the entire sport, your knee-jerk reaction is, I want to find out how great he is. all he has to do is move up to 10 pounds, which he wants to do anyway,

and take on the best fighter in the sport. You make these fights when you have the opportunity to do so. I totally get Jed's argument of, hey, what about Manon Faro when we're talking about Whaley against Chivchenko, which I still think they're going to go forward with anyway. But to me, Elia versus Islam is a slam dunk, no-brainer.

You can put it somewhere exotic like Spain if you want or give it to Abu Dhabi for a lot of money. Heck, put it wherever you want. Remember when Sarah Michelle Geller said that in cruel intentions? Yeah, I do. But what I'm saying is this is unbelievable. We got this. Let's eat, brother.

No more. No more bad opinions on this. This is the fight to make. Jed, please tell America and the world why you agree with Brian Campbell. You don't find out how great someone fucking is by giving him a title shot in a weight class that don't compete in. I don't understand. This is not hard, guys. went up to lightweight and he won and we're like that was fucking cool do any of us talk about him as an all-time great no because that's not the fucking bar the bar that has been established over fucking years is winning and defending your belt against top contenders over and over you find out how great he is by him sitting his ass at 145 and reining over one of the best divisions in the sport by beating guys like Diego lopez and Arnold Allen and another winner of

Volkanowski. You don't by giving him a one-shot lotto ticket against Islam Makachev. Because if he does win, that's terrific. And if he loses five fucking fights after that, it's meaningless. We have got to get the fuck away from this people. It is so infuriating. He has three people he needs to fucking fight in his weight class before he moves up. And that's given Volkanowski the rematch, which you all know I don't care about. Makachev frankly deserves his opportunity to move up if he is not going to stay and rain over his weight class. Joe Rogan's saying this is the second dumbest fucking thing he said this week. Behind only the idea that Elon Musk doesn't want more money because billionaires don't need more money. It is. I cannot handle this anymore,

guys. Like, who are the people we consider the greatest fighters of all time? That list, a couple of them have won multiple belts at the end of their careers. George St. Pierre got a middleweight title at the end of his career. John Jones got that heavyweight belt at the end of his career. The greatness of their careers is measured by their ability to stay great year after year, contender after contender, and to fight off the malaise of being champion because every champion says it. It is hard to be the hunted one. It is easier to be hunting. It is easier to climb the mountain than to fend off people time after time. If we want to determine how great

Ilya is, sit his ass at 2,000 145 and fight the multiple dudes he needs to fight. Mavso Ravlov, Diego Lopez, those dudes need to fight Ilya and if he does that and Makachev is still around and still the champion, then

we can have a true champ champ fight that is meaningful, that is not just us speed running this to get the thing we desperately are hoping. for as opposed to letting it occur and it being the thing that is deserved. I cannot stand this anymore. Please stop bringing it up, Mike.

I mean, Mike, it would be easier to yell like your Luke Thomas like that if both guys weren't already stating their intentions to move up. So you have an opportunity where the timing is just perfect. With the two best fighters in the world against one another, when you get that opportunity, you do it. If you don't, to steal another Luke Thomas phrase, it's promoting. emotional malpractice. He knows that deep inside.

I didn't see Jed carry this same energy when GDR got a shot to become a two division champion in the nudist rematch. Let's be fair, okay? It's the worst talking ever heard. What, like, I just, I get why we, like, the fans want it

because, like, I don't know. It's so in fear. Like, I want to see I'm sorry to pour you. like consolidate and establish himself as the best featherweight on earth. Because he is that, right? Like he has won the two things. But there are, but the entire, literally a year ago, one calendar fucking year ago, the conversation was that Ilya didn't deserve this title fight,

that he did, had not done enough to get a shot at Volk. And then he wins two fights and we're like, fuck it, featherweight's done. Nobody can touch him. That's insane that his assinine thinking, like there's just no logic. to it. And if frankly, if you were Mogachev, the complaint, the one black mark on Markachev's resume at this point that is not his fault, but is true is that all of his title defenses have been pretty specious. He fought a featherweight, like he fought the featherweight champ twice. He fought Porier coming off one win, and now he fought anato Morcano. That is like the,

the criticisms you can yield to Machachiev's title reign, or he's just fought a bunch of featherweights. What, like, why are you, all right, let's give him another one. Let's give him another one. No. Let that man move on. Go up to Weltaway, do whatever the fuck he wants to do, and let Ilyan Taboria earn his shot at a second belt because you don't earn your shot by winning two goddamn fights. I mean, the two GD fights came against two of the greatest fighters in the history of the sport.

They did. But you are being a child. The sport is being so childish. I want my dessert right now. I don't want to eat my fucking vegetables or my dinner. Give me my pudding cup. Right now, I'm going to throw a guy. goddamn tantrum.

Be fucking adults. I cannot handle this anymore. Maybe we should retell Jed the story about how much debt endeavor went into when they bought the UFC in 2016 and that they need super big fights like this. They don't need shit anymore. They are raking in money. Jed's like, don't put the two best fighters in the world against each other.

I don't want to see it. I mean, really? You know what? I don't. And I don't want to see Mokachev fight Alex Prairie either. Like this is dumb shit Make them fight their people

Listen you know my stance I want my cake right now mom I want my cake right now Let's do Tuporia Evloev next That'll that'll let's go Let's do that one that's great yeah I don't give a fuck what sells I give a fuck what matters

That is a meaningful important fight If he's gonna do it If Ilya wants to abandon to If Ilya wants to abandon 145 That's what I've said all along. If he wants to just cut and be like, I'm out. I did what I want to do. I'm moving up.

That's fine. Different conversation. I'm comfortable with that. But if he is going to be champion, be fucking champion, man. That is it. That is your job. When you win the belt, you got a job. And it's to defend the belt against valid contenders.

He's got three of them. At least fight one more of them before we do this. Okay. What about I, Ilya, has to make a featherweight debut. I'm sorry, make a lightweight debut first. and he's just in Porriere's retirement fight. If he wants to do that in bail on the belt, that is fine. If he drops the belt, do whatever you want.

I do not care. But if you are going to keep the belt, defend the belt against the people who deserve their day in court because the sport is not about one individual fighter or us wanting our dessert. It is about the entirety, the totality of everybody. And there are people who deserve their opportunity to prove they are the best in the world.

Because we can say, Ilya would beat them. We can say, Ilya would beat them. Does Faro deserve it? There's not. There are people like, I want to live in a just world. And if you do the work, you get your opportunity to prove you are the best. Because I said at the beginning of this episode, we don't know what will happen. We do not know what will happen if Ilya fights Diego Lopez.

That's why they fight the fights. I want to see it. And we have just so immediately, like we were in on Diego Lopez fighting Ilya to pour you up six months ago. And now the idea that, ooh, ooh, this is very, like he could fight Islam. Now that's just like, that's the only idea. No, that fight can still happen later.

But we do not have to force the issue right now. Sometimes the window opens. And if you don't take it, then you never get Silva versus GSP. Then you never get opportunities to make big things. Look, Manon deserves it. I get that argument. Diego Lopez, to my opinion,

even though he's next in line, doesn't have as strong of a, look who he beat. He beat old and active Ortega and Dan Igay and Sadiq Yusuf, like good wins, but we're not like you're screwing the meritocracy of the sea of the sport. I agree. I actually think Monsor deserves it over Diego, but they're just never going to do that. So if you want them to give up the belt first and go up, that's fine. But the truth is both guys are moving up. The truth is that they got to make room for Usman and Magamatov to come in and complete the Dagestan dynasty.

and the truth is that we're not going to see Islam anywhere near 155 in the future. So do it now while you have the chance. Special circumstances for special fighters. We're just going in circles here. So like I don't need to yell at this again. I know you do, buddy. It's the theory of them at least. Like, you know.

The theory is the good part of them? All right, I got off an exit. I didn't know where I was. I had to try to make a way. All right. Okay, there we go. All right. anyone have directions to the interstate you know

f you'll mama okay there you go all 80s references look look there's going to be another question but we're not going to do that there's just no need there's just no need every show like go on I get yelled at this week every show I'm on this week I get yelled at it's unbelievable you know just play the play the music for BC he tied the game it's two to two nicely done I don't want I don't want to

I don't want to be the creator of Pay and BC. We'll allow the people to do that to take the credit off of me, which means we're going to the knockout round in the surprise turn of events. We're going to overtime here. One question decides at all. They will each have 60 seconds to answer said question. And you know what, BC?

I believe you got a, did BC beat you Jed last time or did you beat him? I don't remember. I want to say BC one last time, but I don't know that. Okay. So BC, you get the option. Twice in a row. All right. Oh, okay.

I'm going to go second if I have the option. All right. Because I'm a... Fine. I want to go first anyway so I can be done. I am mentally shot after that now. Well, God. I kind of wish BC went first because you never know what the answer could be.

But Jed, we got some news. We got some news earlier this week. International Fight Week is set. It's going to be in June again. And UFC 317, which is the main event of International Fight Week in Las Vegas. It brings the people. It brings the thunder. It brings the noise.

Happening June 28th, the final Saturday of June. My question for you, Jed, is simply this. What should be the main event of International Flight Week 2025? Start the clock. I'm so excited that I'm going first, and I don't have to rebuttal to what I am certain will be BC's answer based on recent trends. Because I don't want to talk about that fight anymore.

I just talked plenty about it. This is a fight that I said should happen. I said this at the watch party last weekend. It makes because it makes the most sense in the world. Your main event is Drickus Duplice taking on Hamzaa Chamaev in the main event of International Fight Week. It's extremely international and we'll add a little extra international flavor because when Hamzaa Chamaio is fighting, buddy, you need to have a backup fighter because there is

absolutely no guarantee that that man is making weight, making it to fight week, making it to the cage, any of those things. So, Nasradiene Imov, he serves as your backup fighter for that. Should something go awry with Hobbsot Shmaev? Boom, Bob's your uncle. You've got so many international angles. South Africa, Sweden slash Russia, slash wherever he, Hamzad living now. France, it's very international.

It's a sick fight. It's a fight we talk about plenty. That's my pick. Okay. BC we go to you. I can't wait for you to lay out Islamakachep versus Ilia Teporia. headlining international fight? Because that, too, is a very international main event, BC, but you're shaking your head.

Oh, it's great. What should? What should headline UFC 317? It's the best fight you can make an MMA, but it's not my answer, okay? I have two answers. One comes from my heart, one comes from my brain. Which one you want first? Whatever you want.

It's your time. Your bowls. All right. Let's talk from the heart. Since the UFC made probably the greatest decision they ever were, ever did that week, international fight week, this June. and the 2025 class of the UFC Hall of Fame recognizing the greatest fight that ever happened.

UFC 236, 2019, Atlanta, Georgia, Jed was there, Ronstadter was there, B.C. was there. So what's the fight that should celebrate this great fight? Obviously, Adasanya Gastilum, too. That's what my heart is saying. But that's a bullshit answer. The real one is easy. John Jones versus Tom Aspinall.

I know you could do it in MSG. You could do it in a lot of places. Make IFW matter again. It's the fight we need to see. The division's held up. It's time. It's freaking time. Pay those men their money, Dana and Ari.

They deserve it. Let's go, Jones Aspinall. Let's stop waiting three years for this fight to happen. Thank you. Okay. See, we end in a nice way. I'm proud of BC. I'm proud of BC for keeping it to a minute.

Like, that is maybe a first. I've been a minute man ever since high school, to be fair, guys. Okay? You know what I mean? Yeah. Well played. Well played. Nice.

Nice, Casey. Oh, that was, what a drop. That's why you're the best producer in the game. Time to vote, guys. Who wins? Is it BC, the one-minute man himself? Or is it Jed Michoud, the man who wants longevity and length within divisional championship reigns?

There you have it. So cast your vote. Tomorrow we'll have one of the shortest preview shows in MMA fighting history, getting you ready for UFC Vegas 102. Pretty quick. Yeah, the people's pre-fight show might be like 20 minutes longer than the preview show. So we'll let you know what time. I'm not really sure yet.

We'll have to figure out when the Wayans are and all that fun stuff. AK and I'll be back on Sunday with on to the next one. We'll do some matchmaking. And then we'll be on the road to UFC Seattle and the return of Henry Sohudo against song yandong. Unfortunately, that card has taken a few little wax. We lost Dominic Cruz. He is retired. Rob Font, I don't know if he's going to be fighting or not. He's hoping to. And we find out Steve Garcia. Curtis Blades. Yeah. Steve Garcia, Edson Barbosa no longer happening. Barboza out. So we'll see what's happening with Steve Garcia. Curtis Blades in that rando fight with the guy who

popped for every steroid on the market. That has been moved to UFC 313. So that is no longer out of card either. Hey, Mike, did you see that job called Dominic Cruz, the Jackie Robinson of MMA because of his footwork? I'm not doing a bit. I did not see this. Please tell me that that's an actual quote. Because he was an innovator with footwork that inspired Garbrand and Dillishaw. I'm not doing a bit.

I was thinking more of like the Harriet Tubman, but he might be on to something here. I'm so glad that we, this sport is blessed with these, these comments and takes from one. Oh, that's GFO commentator. Brendan Schaub, by the way. Yes. The guy who was probably the best at the GFL draft, if we're being honest, he's also does some game bread work. I mean, the guy is just all over the place. So, yeah, I go watch Brendan's show and get that take because I might have to go back and watch it just to hear that for my.

incredible take. That is fucking wild. Oh, my God. We haven't seen Casey's face yet. Casey, what are we looking at here? I don't know how we can top a trans- vote for BC. He didn't lose his composure and start screaming at everyone.

That was incredible. I did not see that coming. Oh, there he is. And no sleeves, which means we definitely have a one. It means there's no mercy. No mercy. All right.

Where are we going on? Your winner today with 52% of the votes is EC. You didn't shout at all the viewers. Feels good to be back in the wind column, guys. All right. Yeah, all right. Justice prevails. Yeah, that's great stuff.

Hey, what is Casey going to bear knuckle Oscar Willis. Okay, that's what I'm talking. Yeah. Thank you very much. Oh, there you go. Thank you for playing, Jed. It was a pleasure to be here, guys. All right. Hey, I got to go to the bathroom. I'll see you later. All right. Thank you, BZ. Jed, let me, let me read an IG post I am reading right now.

I think I know what you're about to say. Just to get your thoughts on all of this. Misfits boxing just put out a graphic and wrote, BJJ versus World Strongest Man, Dylan Danis versus Eddie Hall, was set for an MMA showdown but wasn't sanctioned in time due to weight difference. Oh my God. Dylan Davis would get annihilated. I would watch the hell out of that.

That's incredible effort from from misfits whatever there. Oh my God. I watched Dilladeus get choked out in a bar fight. Like any hall, I get, if Dillianz gets to his back, sure. But otherwise, I think any all is just going to punch him. Like, I know that BJJ has, and like, to some extent this is true, right? But the idea that size doesn't matter because jiu-jitsu is a magic is just deeply untrue. And the strongest fighting style remains just being a big-ass person.

And Eddie Hall kind of knows how to fight a little bit. And he outweighs Dylan Danis by 200 pounds of pure muscle. I'm pretty confident how that one would go down. That would be pretty. spectacular. Holy shit. That is basically a Dylan Dennis has one chance to like dive a heel hook or he's going to get punched and his entire body will move.

You could have got that, but instead we're getting Dylan Dennis versus KSI in a boxing match. So there's one that seemed better than the other, but we're going to get Dylan Dennis no matter what. With that said, hit the music. We are done. We'll ask to fight puds. That's it. KSW.

Let's go, baby. I mean, I was also except Francis, but Fuginowski, Eddie, KSW, make it, make it happen. I will fly to Poland. Well, perhaps we'll talk about that fight being made on next week's program. We'll react to UFC Vegas 102. We'll talk to UFC Seattle and all the comings and goings in the wonderful world of combat sports. Thank you, Casey. Shout out to B.C for Jed Bishu.

I am Mike Hack, the iconic voice special, and takes you home back next week. Good night. Love you. This has been Between the Links, an MMI fighting production, on the Vox Media Network. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you.

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