MMA Fighting - BTL | Dustin Poirier vs. Justin Gaethje 2, UFC 291, UFC London Fallout

Episode Date: July 27, 2023

The second collision between Dustin Poirier and Justin Gaethje is upon us, and this time, the BMF title is on the line for the main event clash at Saturday's UFC 291 event. Besides the belt, what else is at stake for Poirier and Gaethje? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses Saturday's pay-per-view headliner, the championship stakes in the future, and if title hopes are gone forever for the man who doesn't get his hand raised in Salt Lake City. Additionally, topics include the co-main event between Jan Blachowicz and Alex Pereira, Tony Ferguson's future, Tom Aspinall's big win at UFC London and his chances to fight Jon Jones in the future, Spence vs. Crawford, Bellator vs. RIZIN 2, and more. This week, topics will be discussed by MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now, only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. MAFATING Studios, this is Between the Links.

And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand-new edition of BTL. Thank you for having us on on another Thursday and holy moly crazy weekend ahead of us in the world of combat sports coming up. We had UFC London this past weekend. And I just realized that I'm not talking to anybody right now because it was on private. But hopefully people are hopping in now. What hell is going on here? We're doing great. I just looked. I'm like, I'm like, what the hell is going on here?

Why is nobody here? And then I realized the thing was set to private. What a dummy. But hopefully we're good to go now. We'll discuss a lot. UFC 291. Some boxing. Bellator versus Risen.

There's a whole bunch going on. But it's a two-man booth today. Everyone has a million things going on. So I couldn't get an opponent for this man. But luckily, he is old, reliable. Doesn't need opponents. Can just go by the seat of his pants. He's here to join.

join us to break all the stuff down. Mr. No Gray area. Co-host of No Betts Bard. Lots of bets this weekend, I believe. He's from M.A.Fighting.com. I believe it's a terrific website. Mr. Jedmishu. How are you, buddy?

You are absolutely correct. It is a terrific website. Mike. You should go there and check it out. In particular, the wonderful Stephen Morocco dropped a new thing he's been working on for like a year today. It's how to judge an MMA fight. All of you losers who don't know what the hell you're doing, get in there.

Take the quiz, figure it out. may or may not be speaking to some people who actively work for the commentary teams of the UFC who could use this as a as a way to learn some things I learned some things it's it's a great thing go enrich your life better yourself as the kids say yes we're not talking about Laura Sanko because she knows what she's talking about all the time when it comes to this podcast she does a terrific job with the thing is the thing is I could even give you their initials and whoever you thought those initials belong to, you would be correct.

I think there's, you can use the same initials for two people. DC isn't very good at judging. Who could it be? Trick question, both. Both need this. Yes, take the quiz and enhance your judging prowess. But a lot to get to.

Obviously, we'll talk a lot about UFC 291. There's a lot of fascinating things going on with that card. UFC London was not very fascinating on paper. This is not a great card. This is kind of a tough one to watch from start to finish, but the last three or four fights give us a lot to talk about. But your man, Tommy Aspinall, Jedmishu,

steals the show. As expected, he just goes out and just dumb trucks marching Tybor. It took him 73 whole seconds. He gets the big pop. Great callout of the Cyril Guns, Sergey Spivak winner for Paris, and then he turned his attention to John Jones, who responded not long after. So Jed, the result was not all that surprising.

Not a lot of people were picking Taibora, and not a lot of people were picking Taibora to even get out of the first round with Tom Aspinall. So the matchmaking was perfect for that moment and how it all played out. But I guess what did you take away from this win from Tommy Aspinall? What did you learn the most? Did anything surprise you at all from his performance?

I didn't think it'd be as quick. just because I thought he might, you know, it's coming off a fairly major knee injury. I thought he might take a minute to sort of get himself back up to rhythm, back up to speed. And, you know, Marcine Zabura is not like a legendary chan or anything, but he's pretty durable. And Aspenol just, I mean, this was over from the time the first bell sounded, basically.

It's weird. Heavyweight's his weird division, man. It's particularly the last few years where, like, you don't have a lot to go on if you're breaking fights down and like just reflexively you sort of have to say well tom aspinall's going to be a future champion because he's young enough and he keeps beating the hell out of everybody he faces so that probably adds up but it's the same sort of thing we've had francis and ganu same issue we're having with sergey pavlovich right now into a lesser extent jelton almeda they're just running over like there's such a clear stratification of

quality in this division where they're like maybe six guys who are really good and then then there's you know the rest of the people and they the guys who are really good when they announced themselves they're just kind of running through people and so it's like when francis and gano fought for heavyweight tight like the first time he fought stepe we didn't know shit about him we do nothing because he's just been ethering everybody in the first like two minutes of every fight and so it's like, I know that he punches her hard. And maybe that's it. Maybe that's all you need to know. And then he lost to Stipei and we're like, oh, well, now we learned the thing.

And then he went right back to doing the same thing. And we're like, well, we still really don't know anything about this, dude, because he keeps just clobring guys. Sergei Pavvich is doing the same way. Sergei Pavlovich could be the best heavyweight in the world or it could just not have a ground game at all. We really have no idea. And it's feel the same with Tom Aspinall.

Like, I don't know what to make of him other than that he is very clearly one of the elite guys but is he won is he seven like i don't know where he falls in that because there's just been no resistance to anything he's done in the cage and i mean that's a credit to him certainly but it it does make heavyweight a very very weird division because how the hell do you handicap uh a tom aspinall versus sergey pavovitch fight or tom aspinall versus jeltona made a fight who knows what can like we know what the two likely outcomes are but how likely is each outcome who can say heavyweight is a mystery and it kind of makes it fun and i'm very excited tom aspinall's back in in the mix yeah great performance for him the card needed it the crowd needed it terrific poll out yeah i thought

it was it was well done by the way because most people just be like john jones i'm coming and set the path yeah he laid out the path it's it's he laid out seeds on the path to jose he's he laid out seeds on the path to John Jones. And what's great about that is Tommy Aspinall, even though he defeated Marching Tibera, he did something that Jailton Almeida or Sergey Pallovich has not been able to do. He got John Jones's attention immediately, which is a big thing considering the narrative that John put out there himself heading into this Steepei-Meichich fight in November that I'm going to beat Stepe and then I'm going to walk away. And I know you don't necessarily think that's the case because the heavyweight title record and heavyweight title wins,

that record is not far away for John Jones after he beats Depe. But how would you grade that, I'll throw out a timeframe for you. How would you grade the chances of Aspinall getting in the octagon with John Jones, let's say December 2024? Very high. I've been saying it from jump. I don't think John's retiring. and I'm I think I have increasingly become in the minority of this but he's too petty

like to retire to just like do that he needs this too much it's too much of his identity at stages and like he certainly wouldn't retire he might vacate the belt or whatever but then it'll be a Henry Sehudo vacation where it's like all right well I'm not the champ but as every time people fight I'll be like yeah so Bt dubs I'm still the baddest dude in the planet or whatever and I could win if I only wanted to. So I think there's a really high likelihood he ends up fighting Tom Aspinall next year. Maybe he steps aside after the Stepe thing, but I really just not sure. Like, if I'm John Jones and I look at this, I'm like, I don't know, man, he's going to truck Stepe

because I don't know why we're pretending like this is a fight. Like it's simply not. Stipe's old. Hasn't look good in years, hasn't fought in years. and even when he was fighting against a less good version of DC didn't particularly blow the doors off people, he's going to get trounced. This is not, like, he's going to beat that,

and he's going to look around and be like, Sergei Pavlovich can hit real hard, but all that to do is tackle him and the fight's over. Okay, and I think there's a really good chance we get Tommy Aspinall versus John Jones for the heavyweight belt at the end of next year. And maybe that ends up being the fight that, you know, gets to tie the heavyweight title defense record because he fights Sergei and then then he only needs one more. He beats steepie. He needs two more wins to tie the heavyweight record in the

UFC. So there's a really good chance. Yeah. I think John wins. I don't think he like flat or retires, but I do think he steps away. And I do think Aspinall could be the dude to get him back. It's he's probably going to need to win the vacant title and then run off a defense or two. But I think if John, at least John sees the potential in this man to be a draw and a potential money-making venture outside of just fist-fighting and piling on his resume, I think Asiminal, like, of the current crop of guys outside of legends or former champions that could entice John to come back, I think Asmodal is the best chance over Pavlovich or a Jailton Al-Meda.

Yeah. He speaks English. Well, yeah. That's like the primary factor as he speaks English. And you just want to hang out with Tom. And so he panned all John Jones out. Yeah, you just want to hang out with the guy. You want to, like I said, on the Post-Fitch, I would buy a car from Tom Aspinall right now.

Yeah, I heard you say that. I don't, that does not feel like a recommendation to me. As someone who worked in the auto industry for a long time, to me, that felt like you were insulting Tom Aspinall, honestly. Just not buying cars from people. That's not the vibes I get from. Tommy Aspinall. I think you know what I mean.

He's very friendly. I would definitely have a... He's very friendly. Yeah, I would have an adult beverage with him. I talked to him about really anything because it would be a joy. But let's talk about what happened right before Tom Aspinall delivered a great performance. Molly McCann did not deliver a great performance. She gets submitted by the new flyweight, Julia Stoliorenko.

This fight had a lot of questions, mostly because of Stolierranco. She was having trouble making $1.35. If she made the weight, was she going to look horrendous? doing it. She looked fantastic. She looked upbeat. She looked like 125 should have been her home for a long time. And she took Molly down and tapped her real quick. And then a few days later, Molly gave her her statement on the loss. She was bummed, obviously. And then she announced that she is going to attempt a drop to the strawweight division. So your reaction to Soli Rand goes when? Your reaction to Molly's reaction? And is this the right move dropping under 150?

for meatball molly it's definitely the right move um i i said in the preview of this fight i called it the stoppable force meets the movable object because stole your ankle's not a good wrestler and mccan isn't either but if mccan can just be good enough to keep on her feet she's probably going to win and then she super couldn't do it and immediately got got greased so a fight is not a shocking outcome in any respect if you've been following molly mccan's career you she is what she is the cake's baked we know it. She's her popularity exceeds her ability. And that's a good thing in prize fighting. Like, it's very, very rare to be able to pull that particular magic trick off and she's done it. I think moving down, it'll help. I mean, I don't, she's not large for flyweight. I don't,

she's not like especially small, but she could move down. I think she can make, uh, make straw weight and be a, be a larger person there, which will help her, um, show up some of those deficiencies. Her game has never really been like a speed-based game anyway. So it's not like she's losing a huge edge there. She's just, you know, tough hang. She's in there. She's scrappy. She's going to fight.

She's going to be there for three rounds if you don't take her down and submit her. And she can probably have some success at straw weight. She will always have opportunities because of how popular she is. But she's a fringe top 15 fight or whatever weight class it is. She's never going to fight for a title. And I think most of us have known this for a while. It's the same with Patty. And that's not a knock on them.

That's just who they are. Sto Yorinco, on the other hand, I still don't think she's fighting for a title. But it's weird because you wouldn't think that this is a natural weight class for her, given her struggles at 135. But she looked great. And just physically in general, it does appear that she's probably better served at this weight class. Again, I doubt she's going to compete for a title.

But that's a good win over a fringe top 15 competitor and in the best women's weight class in the world. We now have somebody who's at least going to get an opportunity. You get Molly McCann done up. You're going to get a chance to fight somebody with a number next to their name, make something happen. I didn't actually look at the UFC's rankings this week. Let me pull them up because it's possible that Stoyeranko got ranked off that. She did not. Yeah, she is not ranked in the – yeah, she is not.

It could have been. But no, she is – well, because, I mean, before that, McCann was on three-fire win streak and her lost to Aaron Blanchield, who is the best flyweight in the world. So, like, you know, no knocking her for that. But yeah, no, she's not there, but she's probably going to get, I don't know, Tracy Cortez or Andrea Lee. Then you can go from there and she'll have a chance at a ranking. So good for her. Great win.

I match made the Andrew Lee, Natty Ice loser at UFC 292, I believe. Luser that fight gets Stoli Ranko and see what she can do. Change of weight certainly worked out for Paul Craig. I do want to mention him real quick. goes out there, boy, did this crowd and the people watching this car need Paul Craig to do Paul Craig things? And boy, did he do Paul Craig things? Just beats the hell out of Andre Munez, gets the big win. Crowd went bananas.

We felt the momentum shift a little bit. And we've been preaching, Jed, for a long time since October that fighters need to do the thing. Do the thing and do the thing correctly. I'm not going to ding Paul Craig for not doing it at the post-fight interview. with Michael Bisbing. But man, did he do the thing on the post fight show? Call on a Bo Nickel?

I love that callout. I don't think he gets that fight right now. But at least he plants seeds because I think when Bo does get a ranked dude, I think Paul Craig makes all the sense in the world. And I think Paul Craig set himself up for success. I give the man an A borderline A plus for his Saturday afternoon in London, England.

Your thoughts? I'm not going to give him. Manet. Shouts to Paul Craig. I was not working this event, which I'm super happy about because it does not appear that many people had a good time doing this. I was checking the slacks. I was like, man, pretty happy I'm missing this one.

That's sweet. Give me that misfits action later on that evening because at least it was weird. Misfits was bad, but it was super weird, which was at least kind of fun. shouts to Paul Craig for doing the thing. To some respects, I didn't love the Bo-Nuckle call-out. I get it. I don't hate it. But I sort of didn't like most of what I heard him say afterwards.

Like calling out Bo-Nichael again, I get it. But one, I'm not sure that that's a good call-out because Bo-Nichael's going to just rinse him. So, like, it's probably not good for you. I don't know, like, we're just talking about a dude. who is like really scrappy in game, but he struggled against dudes who hit really hard and are very athletic at a weight class up above. And so now his first move is going to be like,

what if I fight arguably the most athletic dude in this weight class? Granted, he doesn't really know much about fighting yet, but I did just see him put the hands all over some dude that's just not going to go well for him. So I don't love the call out in that regard, even though I, like you, don't think he's getting that next. That might be down the line. I think he just, like, I'm pulling up the UFC's rankings now, too.

Interesting. The UFC rankings, not sure they've done anything with the UFC rankings right now. Is this still not updated? So they still have Andre Munez ranked at 14, which is obviously wrong, given that he just lost to Paul Craig. They still have Craig at number nine in the light heavyweight. So the five people doing the UFC rankings, congratulations, you're still very bad of your jobs. He just got a middleweight ranking. Like when our cycle comes up, I suspect Paul Craig will be at that top 15-ish level in the middle-weight rankings,

certainly be a far if he doesn't quite crack the numbers. I would like to see him be a little more proactive towards moving up that list. And instead, he calls out Bo Nicol, which by definition is fighting backwards, even if it's a bigger name, that's not getting him advancing up the numbers. And then he also was like, I mean, I'm not done with 205. And while I understand the impulse again, he does have wins over Jamal Hill and Magamon, and Kalaya of two of the three best light heavyweights in the world, depending on how you want to rank them and Yuri altogether.

Come on, Paul. Like, we all know what's up here. Like we don't, if you rematch those two dudes, it's probably not going to go the same. Like, we don't, you know, we don't have to live in the fantasy world that you are going to compete for light heavyweight belt, even though the weight class is worse. Try and make an honest to God run here at middleweight. I think the division suits you. You looked pretty good in there. Why aren't you fighting Jack Hermanson?

I don't know if Jack Hermanson's booked, but that should have just been it. Like, let me fight a staple of the middleweight division. That's the fight. That's the next fight for Paul Craig. Yeah. Just here's a dude. I mean, I would frankly love Gerald Mearschart, even though he's not ranked, just because Gerald Mearschart has always felt like the Paul Craig of middleweight.

And now that the two of them can go, then that fight just makes me happy. But Jack Hermanson just is like, he's a top 10 dude. Like, you should be trying to get that because they like you. And there's a reason to like you. And hell, it's middleweight, man. Like, you're concerned with getting the big name of Bo Nickel. which probably didn't happen. And this is middleweight where Sean Strickland,

who the UFC has ranked number six is the frontrunner to get a title fight. Like, if you just call out Jackermanston to beat him and then you're like, okay, give me Jared Cannoneer or somebody, you might be two fights away from a title shot. So you should be pushing for that heavy. So I didn't love most of his post-fight stuff.

But the performance was great and I'm happy to see him look good at middleweight. Yeah, hey, listen, if Gerald Mirschart beat Andre, Trosky in a couple weeks at UFC 292, maybe he can call a Bo Nickel. I'm not Bo Nicol. Paul Craig. I think, see, I think Gerald Mearshardt is more, makes more sense for Bo Neckle. Because Paul Craig's like a top 15 dude.

So if you're doing the dance with Bo Neckle, you're just firing him up. And while I don't think that's too early, I still think you probably want to give him one more. I think Gerald Mearshardt is like the ideal next dude for Bo Neckle to face. I like Puneas Oriano. Give him a hammer. It's the exact same thing, right? Because he didn't get a step up, you got a step back. A guy who's been around.

Yeah, just give him a guy who's been around a veteran dude. And then when he greases him, then it's like, all right, now we can give him a top 15 guy. Yeah. Give him Kuna, then give him the top 20 dude, and then give him Paul Craig Ray after that. Perfect. Nailed it. Well, that's UFC London. Let's put that away probably for a long time.

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Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. This episode is brought to you by Peloton.

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Dustin Poirier versus Justin Gathe two. We get the BMF title on the line. Jorge Mazadol is going to be there to wrap the title around the winner. And this one just seems more than right up your alley. Does it not? Is this the most highly? Is this the most highly? It's up everybody's alley.

But is this to you the most highly anticipated fight of the year for you? This isn't an alley. This is Route 66. This is I-85. maybe this is everybody is on board on this thing like if if there is a single person out there who's like not into it make yourself known i because that's the hottest take i've ever heard moh life uh there's no there is no conceivable reason not to be pumped about this i said i don't know but's barred this week i'd have to really dive into it but at worst this is like the third

best fight I could put together in mixed martial arts right now. Like, I can think of maybe two fights I would be more interested in watching at this moment in time than these two dudes fistfight each other again. It's insane. This week has been awesome. I love my job in general. Love atm. It's a great website.

Weeks like this are the best when I am just paid to do things like rewatch all of Dustin Poyer and Justin Gaci fights for primer articles and stuff. Like, I was just sick. rewatch this fight again this morning as I was finishing up a thing that's going to come out later today or tomorrow. That fight's amazing. It's 2018 fight of the year for a reason. And we're probably about to get something incredibly similar this time around. The only possible argument anyone can have against this fight is, well, we've already seen it and I don't want to see it again. And because I at least understand that argument, problem is we saw it five years ago.

They're not the same fighters they were. So it is a different fight. and now we're running it back immediately, which still would have been fine. Again, it was the fight of the freaking year. No, this is five years. They've both picked up very significant wins, had a couple of setbacks, shown a whole diversity of new skill sets in between. Very different fighters, every bit about this is different.

And so this is incredible. I know some people are, you know, whatever about the BMF belt. And that's fine. I don't understand the conversation around the BMF belt. why we're treating that as a negative. If it's not your bag of tea, don't think about it. You simply don't have to.

Like, I don't, I, there has been, like, actual pushback on this from people, and I just don't get why, like, oh, we don't need it.

Okay, don't even think about it then. You simply don't have to. You can just enjoy, there, the belt affects nothing for this fight. And that's your criticism as it means nothing. Then just don't,

who gives a shit then? If it means nothing, why does it mean anything to you? Just be like, cool, I'm just going to enjoy this fight for the fight of it. And then they'll do a belt exchange at the end and I can turn off the TV. It's entirely fine. Like, this is one of those things that is mind boggling to me why anyone would care in a negative fashion about it. Probably shouldn't be like, oh, hell yeah, this is the BMF belt. But if that's it, I want to yuck your yum.

If you're into that, live your dreams, maybe. But if you're not, just be like, cool. well I still get one of the best fights in mixed martial arts. Good. There's no negative to this matchup. And I can't understand why anyone's even like prescribing any amount of it too. It's like, no, this fight kicks all of the ass. This fight is probably going to deliver barring knock on wood,

some sort of major injury or something like that. We're going to have something dope as hell happen for five to 25 minutes. and it's going to rule. And it's like, I'm just assuming this is the fight of the year. We've had really good fights this year. I am already just penciling this in as the best fight of 2023. Interesting. Okay.

I wanted to bring that up because, by the way, I was one of those people that was just like, the BMF title thing is dumb. But then I heard Gaichi at the Media Day yesterday. And I was like, hmm, Justin Gaichi wins. It's going to be kind of fun seeing Portia's teammate, wrap the belt around his waist and gaichi probably being a little smarmy about it that's certainly fun also yeah like sure the bmf belt is dumb but how many times in the history of this

program have you heard me yell at them not having fun it's at least something different and interesting and maybe poise it maybe not but if you don't if it's dumb to you it literally has no bearing on the fight so you just don't even have to think about it it has no bearing it in fact changes parts of this fight. So you can just enjoy the fight, which we all agree kicks ass. Yeah. So you mentioned you're already locking it as the number one fight. Penciling it.

Not locking it in. Penciling it. But still, but you're writing it down. You're at least writing it down. Could you erase it? Sure. But you seem very confident because we had our primer roundtable column. I haven't written one of those in a couple of years, but dust it off the old

fingertips and type things up. And the headline is the first question we had, is this fight a lock for fight of the year? And to me, lock just seems like such a strong word when we had Volcanovsky-Machachev, we had Moreno Pantosia just beaten six shades of

caca out of each other. You're penciling this in. It just feels like the expectations for this fight are somewhat unfair considering how the first fight went. Like, how do you think this one looks compared to the first fight over five years ago

that did win fight of the year. Do you think it's going to be a similar chaotic battle? Or do you think, like, I think it's going to be really, really, really good in just different ways than the first one. So I think it's going to be pretty similar. Here's the thing. We penciled the same thing in five years ago. When these two dudes were set to face each other five years ago,

we're like, that's probably going to be fight a year. we did the same thing when Justin Gachie was fighting Eddie Alvarez. We're like, that's probably going to be fight of the year. And both of those times, it delivered because that's sort of what it is. Maybe the one time that that sort of thing hasn't worked in a Justin Gachie scenario was I feel like a lot of people were penciling in the Tony Ferguson one. And that didn't win fight of the year, but it was in the short list. Like it was in the top five of the year.

It was fight of the night. It was an incredible performance. Michael Chandler, that's going to be one of the fights of the year. Oh, actually, it was, again, the fight of the year. Justin Gagee, you can have expectations. He and Robbie Lawler are the two dudes. They are 1A and 1B and the most exciting fighters of all time. The conversation is those two dudes, and then whoever else you want to put on that Mount Rushmore,

that's up for debate. A lot of other people, when Justin Gagchi is fistfighting somebody, particularly he's fistfighting somebody of the, the cut that the Dustin Porre is, we can have the expectations and believe they will be fulfilled. I think this fight is going to look a little different, but ultimately the same, because at the end of the day,

I think these two dudes are who they are. I think Justin Gaichi has improved and made more structural changes to his game since their first bout. But push comes to shove. Maybe he will look a little more cautious early on. You know, he's been a lot more defensively responsible since losing back-to-back fights to Alvarez and Gaget, or Piori. So maybe he will have a little bit more of that,

show a little bit more craft in there early. But when the bullets start flying, these two dudes are going to be who they're going to be. And so, you know, we have five rounds. Maybe the first round is not quite as immediately Gaiji is in his face, and we're off to the races from the first 10 seconds until the fight finishes. is maybe it takes a few more minutes but it push comes to shove they're going to be in there doing exactly what they do and what they do is go to war like that is who these guys are at their core

and so this fight's going to rule man like i have i would bet i would bet a pinky that this fight is going to be incredible it may not be fight of the year because that's we never know what will come and yes volkinovsky makachev is such a high level exchange but if this fight is anything close to their first one, coin flip, whether that's better than Volk Islam. Like, Volk Islam was,

I'm almost close to guaranteeing that this fight will be more fun than Volk Islam was. Volk Islam was a terrific fight and a fun one, but it ain't going to be the same kind of carnage that we're going to see this weekend. So my argument, and it was mostly just to be different,

but I actually truly believe this, that there will be, look, it's still going to be really, really good. There are going to be elements of chaos. Like you said, these guys are who they are. And you can only pretend not to be that for so long. But my case for it being more of a tactical masterpiece mixed in with the chaos,

like more tactics than chaos, as opposed to the first fight where chaos reign supreme, is that one, these two guys are, they're rounding third on their careers. Now, could they fight for three more years and still have really fun fights? and people will love to see it and pay a bunch of money to watch them. Sure, of course. There's certain names. It's 155. There's plenty of people coming up.

But with the rounding third thing, it's what is at stake for the winner of this fight? And I'm not talking about the BMF title. I'm talking about the winner of Islam Makachev versus Charles Olivera because whoever wins this fight is going to fight the winner of that fight. And unless the only way I can see this changing is one example, and I'll give it in a second. I know that example. Yeah, this very likely will be the last chance

either guy fights for a world title. The only way that this could change is if Justin Gaichi wins on Saturday and beats his Lamakachev for the title, then we could do the third fight to settle the score for the belt and that would be absolutely gigantic. But do you know what I'm saying?

Like the fight's still going to be really, really good. And like I'm penciling it in to be on my top five for sure. But I just think it's going to be a, different fight still very fun but like i got a bunch of crap for saying michel perera nico price was not going to be in a 15 car wreck on the middle of the highway and it wasn't it was really fun because they got to perera they got to him they they look what look how they massacred my boy mike he was the most fun and then he gassed himself out backstage against some random lightweight who and and then they took him out there was never going to be fun they're never going to

I'm a boy just engaged you like that. I refuse to believe it. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying though? Like, but considering what's at stake? Last chance for the belt. Like maybe there's a,

I don't know if cautious is the right word. Because I don't know if that word is really in their dictionaries for 25 minutes. I don't think it will be. But maybe more wiseness. Maybe there'll be. That's the thing. I think that's going to make the fight better. Because I get it.

Yeah. Well, like, I think that I agree to some extent. Like I think a lot of there will be more tactically. in play because Justin Gachie was a strategic fighter. He was not a tactical fighter for most of his career. Big picture versus small. Like his largely he went into every fight as I'm going to create a bunch of car crashes and

I will survive them and you will not. And that worked for a very long time. And honestly, damn near worked against Dustin Porier. I think people have a misremember that fight. The commentary team was certainly off in that fight as well, acting as if Poirier was getting completely Maliwopped. But heading into the fourth round, Gaichi was about to win the fight.

He had all the momentum. Porier could barely stand on his lead leg. And then one really enormous left hand from Pori hurt Gaichi and the fight ended, like, was over. And that's just sort of how the fight went. But all of the strategy that Gaichi employed was working, his tactics were flawed. And I think he has become a much better tactical fighter,

as we saw against Hafeel Faze. and that is, I think, just going to make this fight better. We are going to see these two dudes be chaotic and be insane, but also with the same sort of tactical nuance that we got in Volcanovsky-Machachev, right? And that's because that fight is, like I said earlier, that fight is not a great fight because it is incredibly thrilling. It is a good fight. There's tons of action.

But there's a narrative going on. there is a back and forth as adjustments get made and there's sort of a rhythm to this fight that builds in a really great way that storytelling does. I think we have a much higher opportunity for that to happen in this. Plus, it's still Justin Gaichi and Dustin Poire who are going to let it fly when we really get down to brass tack. So that's why I'm penciling this in as the fight of the year. I think this fight has a really good opportunity to be better than the first. and if it's as good as the first, I still think it would be the best fight of this year.

And if it's better than the first, we're talking a top 10 fight of all time. Yeah, I'm not poo-pooing the fight at all. It's tremendous. It's going to be wonderful. The watch party is going to be fantastic watching it go down. Let me ask you this, Jed. I have not listened to Obes Barred yet.

Plan on listen to the first chunk of it later on today, some of it tomorrow. My guess is if you're betting straight on this fight, that you're betting Justin Gachie because these guys are very evenly matched, the success he had in the first fight he's the underdog so i think if the line was flipped you might even lean dust and porreier just because of how closely batch they are so taking the betting odds out of it underdog odds plus money looks as a ticing as that is take all that out if this is 50 50 this is a

straight pickum even odds are you leaning poor or gaichi and why i mean this is i it's a gin you're absolutely correct i'm taking gaichi for value this is a coin flip fight. So pick the day and I may have a different answer. I did just rewatch basically their entire catalogs this morning as I was wrapping up my primer piece for this fight. And I am at the moment leaning towards Justin Gaci in it. I think Dustin Poy is the more crafty fighter.

He's still a better defensive fighter and that paid huge dividends and he can still kind of lean on that in this belt. But to me, the leg kicks are still going to. to be a major factor for Gachy. Poirier basically just ate them all and just gutted his way through it. And that's not, it works, but that's not really a recipe for success for your strategy to simply be, I'm going to be real tough and hope that my leg keeps working because it just won't. That's a huge thing for me.

I also, I'm taking a lot away from their most recent fights too, which is coming into this. I know the Fazeve fight had a little bit of controversy. I think some people thought Fiziv won that fight. I am not among them. And I was really impressed by the adjustments gaitchi made in that fight. You're talking about a dude who that many people thought that was a terrible stylistic matchup for him among the worst in the division. And sort of found a way to work through it using craft and gile that has largely not been his calling card and making that fight. difficult for Fizzie

in a way that he wasn't anticipating. I think one of the big things from that fight, Justin Gagey hits real hard, but he is not like, he doesn't really sit down in his punches all that often. There have been a couple. I mean, the James Vick-K.O. certainly stands out, but he is largely not a dude who is swinging as hard as he can.

He's just letting his natural power touch you, and that and his leg kicks, and just the pace he is putting just sort of all accumulations. into this collapsing erosion of your body. Against Fiziv, he wasn't able to do that. And he was struggling to find the mark early in that fight as frequently as he kind of has with other people. And so he was just like, all right, swing him.

And he just started firing huge fastballs down the middle. And not all of them would hit, but the ones that did hurt him. Like they would hurt Fiziv. They got reactions out of him. They got him to adjust his style. I think that was a huge thing missing from the first fight with Porre. Porre would have these big moments if you go watch it back where he's always touching with the jab and kind of keeping pace with Gichi's leg kicks in that way. But when Gachie would go to the high shell coverup, Porier would double, triple, quadruple jab and then firing a hook around the guard or uppercut and just get these extended combinations that really let him put a pretty high volume on Gachie that obviously was effective.

I think Gaichi is going to be a lot better this time around it, not allowing that to happen and simply swinging as hard as he can out of his freaking shoes to hit Dustin and back him up and not allow him to get into a real big rhythm. I think that that's a huge weapon. I mean, Michael Chandler hurt Dustin Porier. I think Justin Gachie can hit just as hard as Michael Chandler if he really trying to do so. And I think that that can just be, and he's not going to like totally gas out like Michael Chandler does in every fight.

So the the way that these two dudes are coming into this fight gives me just a very slight edge towards Justin Gagee. You know, at the main events, we talk about stakes and fighters, what they have to lose and stuff. And usually you look at the main event as the obvious answer of like which fighter has the most to lose on this card. But if you look up and down the top seven fights, outside of maybe the featured prelim, prelim, between Bonn, Fiemann Giles. But if you look at the five main card fights and the Derek Lewis fight, you can make a case for at least one dude in every single fight who has the most to lose on this entire car. But do you view it as Pori and Gaichi has the most to lose on this card?

Like they got a title shot to gain, the BMF title, everything, they're going to get a ton of momentum from a win here. But do they have the most to lose here? Or is it a guy like Tony Ferguson who's lost five in a row, a guy like Derek Lewis, who has not looked great? Stephen Thompson's title aspirations, not gone yet, but they're hanging by a thread. We get Jan Boehovic, Alex Pereira. Michael Kiesa coming back after a long layoff.

Can Kevin Holland be a contender? You can make a case for a lot of guys and a lot of these top seven fights, but do you feel like Pori and Gates, you have the most lose on Saturday? It's a really good question, and I'm not sure. They're the easiest answer, yes, because they're the easiest answer, yes, because they're, the opportunity costs because they are losing a title fight functionally the winner of this will fight for the belt next they are losing a belt by definition even if you don't like the belt of the belt is a thing that they will be getting that will go down in the UFC history books as the second BMF champion and the loser of this probably does

never compete for another belt not a thousand percent certain but pretty likely is done at the same token I think these are the two dudes who are the most locked in for their legacies of all the people on this card. Maybe you could argue Jan Blahovich can't really do too much to alter his legacy at this point either. Justin Gachey's going to retire as one of the most exciting fighters who has ever lived. Dustin Porre is also one of the most exciting fighters who have I lived. They both champions. They've both done a lot. So I'm open to that argument.

I think the easiest and simplest argument is the loser of this loses the most on this card, though. All right. Anything else that's on your mind about this fight, Jed? About this fight now? Yeah. I mean, it's just going to be awesome. I have a thousand questions about what tactics each dude are going to bring in. And that's why, like I said, why I think this fight can be better.

Because in the first one, there weren't really like a huge number of questions. It was, can Dustin Poirier be broken by Justin Kichie? And for 15 minutes, it really looked like he could be. And then he just landed a big one. This one, there I have an infinite number of questions. What each dude is going to do, what adjustments are going to be made, how they are approaching this fight in general. Is the elevation going to play a factor? Like just a thousand questions.

Again, there are maybe two fights that you could put together inside of mixed martial arts that I would be more interested in than this one. It's going to be a great fight and I'm excited for it. So let's move on to the co-made event, Jed. Another question on that primer was, is Janbovich the right opponent? for Alex Pereira's UFC debut at 205 pounds. So my answer was admittedly at first, it was a no for me because stylistically, this could be a really tough fight.

But considering there's no champion right now and Yeri's just waiting around and it doesn't seem like the UFC's going to give Ancolae for Johnny Walker any favors, I feel like this is kind of the best it can get realistically right now for Pereira, even though it's a tough matchup for him. What do you think?

All things consider now, Do you feel differently with the title being vacant and everything that's happened in this division since this fight was announced, is this in fact, with everything left, the right fight to make for Pereira's 205 debut? No. I think that it's a really,

they just have a really difficult task with the 205 debut, basically. Because the idea in concept is okay. You just want to give Pereira right into the mix against the top five guy. like that's that's sort of the idea and so I get that the problem like you sort of pointed out a lot of the other guys aren't aren't going to happen for one reason or another uh I think this is a really tough stylistic matchup for Pereira and if he wins good on him like that's

terrific but it's like I would say that Ancolaev is a worst stylistic matchup but that's probably about it I would say Pereira has a better chance to beat everybody else at the top of this division other than Bachovych really like it says Yanbovich doesn't get a lot of credit for a lot of things that he has done in his career then I don't understand why for most of his career he was just sort of and also ran and there is a realistic argument that he should have always been that and if John Jones had never left Janbovich simply would have just been another dude yonbovich is a really good defensive fighter he is a one of if not the best defender of of of leg kicks, which is a huge feather in his cap against Magman-A-Kalayaev, who, like, a lot of

his striking game just relies on his kicking ability. Pereira's game is not nearly as bent towards kicking, but it is like a really fundamental part of how his offense is set and how his rhythm goes to work. And Behovic is going to shut that down like very, very quickly. And then it's just a question of, okay, can Pereira boop him before Belhovic force him into clenches and just bodies him down the way he did his he? because I maybe Pereira's going to be a lot better he's not cutting weight like that's that will be a big question we'll see what he looks like at this weight class where he is not killing himself to make it he gets to eat all he wants etc yon bohovic did not have a real difficult time taking down israel disinia who's admittedly smaller than Pereira but i think a better technical defensive wrestler and just sitting on him and izzie was able to take down Pereira just one in one seems to make two to me here i think which is savvy enough on the feet to not get totally clobbered immediately

and at least be competitive enough to set up takedowns. And he's not a dummy. He's just going to take him down a bunch. And maybe he can't finish him, but I wouldn't be shocked. Like he's got a good arm triangle. He's got good top pressure. Pereira doesn't have much off from his back.

Izzy controlled him on the floor for like four minutes. So I think this is a really tough matchup. I would have much preferred a Johnny Walker matchup. I know Jamal Hill is injured, but like that would have made. been fun, kind of insane, but would have made like fun. And I think there's a really, really high possibility that Pereira just immediately get stymied as a as a title threat right out of the gate.

Yeah, I think a lot of people look at this fight where Pereira, if Pereira wins, he's just going to highlight real Jan. And if Jan wins, it's not going to be the most aesthetically pleasing performance. Like you said, Jan doesn't get enough credit for being a finisher. And I, like I was looking up a stat. earlier that like it's almost 11 9 and 9 baby 11 9 yeah we we talked about that on no bet's barred like he he is extreme like he's got 11 decisions nine subs 9 tkos like it's he's incredibly well-rounded yeah but considering what's at stake and how that fight for bohovic

with ankeliap didn't really age very well with the big boss and i think more of the blame at least to Dana White went towards Magamana and Goliath, but is there a chance considering Jan's age where he's at in this division that maybe Jan just doesn't go in there thinking, you know what, my best path to victory is just putting this man on his back and just holding him there for 15 minutes and winning a 3027. But do you think there's a chance that Jan actually fights

with a little more risk than you would expect him to? Like, do you, if he goes out and just does what most people feel like he will do, tackle him, lay on him, land short shots, maybe in preposition. Do you feel like Dana White will go to the presser and say, yeah, man, he's definitely fighting Yuri, no doubt about it? Because I'm not so sure. So do you think Jan, there's a part of him that's like, I've got to be a little more exciting than that in order to make it a no-brainer for him to get the next title shot? I hope not. I don't think so.

It could have happened. you know his career renaissance really occurred because of legendary Polish power and some good branding on his part so maybe he just views this in that lens and if so that is about the worst possible choice he could make if he if he just tries to kickbox with Alex Pereira for 15 minutes he is going to get got like that if you tell me right now he's not going to shoot a takedown I will bet a substantial amount of money on Alex Pereira. I have to believe that he is smart enough to this. And the thing is, he doesn't have to lay and pray Pereira. Like, I get that that's the concern. But if he just immediately tackles him, again, is he controlled Pereira on the ground for like four minutes?

Jan Behovic is a much better top position player than that. He has a good arm triangle choke. He can just get the takedowns and then just beat up Pereira on the ground and then try and submit him. And if he wins a 30-27, he's definitely not getting the opportunity to fight for a title. Okay, I won't say definitely actually, just because he's pretty well liked. The UFC seems to really enjoy him. It's great dude. Why not? You could just run Yeri, Yon, or however.

And they, as you previous point out, not really into doing favors from Agammed. But if he goes out of him and finishes him, then I think he's got the inside lane. So if he can go in there, get takedowns, ground and pound Pereira out, or find a submission, then he's definitely going to get it. So I think he's just not going to be dumb. kickboxing with Pereira would be objectively stupid. Most interesting storyline at UFC 291 outside of the top two fights. Okay.

That is a good one. It's not Stephen Thompson, Michelle Pereira, because look what they did to my boy. They ruined him. He's about to tackle Wonderboy, which is smart, but it's going to be boring as hell. if we were going to get karate versus capoeira that would be fun and Pereira would probably get dusted but instead he's just going to tackle Wonder Boy. I will never be interested in a Tony Ferguson fight because he is washed. Michael Keisa, Kevin Holland is probably the answer.

I mean, Kevin Holland, can Kevin Holland wrestle? Still don't know. Haven't seen a lot of that thing happening lately or in his entire career. Kea says coming off almost two-year layoff. He talked to Ariel earlier this week on the MMA hour and was very, you know, I'm totally fine. I already did a full camp for April and then my fight with Li Jing Liang got pushed back. So I actually feel like this is ideal for me. I've had two camps now.

I'm ready to go. That's probably the most fight I have sort of the most questions about other than the main event and probably has the biggest stakes because Holland gets a win, top 15 ranked well to wait can actually kids it might be like top 10 of the uc's rankings i'm not sure can try and make moves up up the ladder there even though i think he will struggle and kiesa gets a win coming back snaps off a two-fight skid now he's back to being going concern i think that's probably the one i'm going to say i have the most uh the most interest in other for the rest of the card over under one and a half retirements on saturday retirements I'm going to say under I don't know who all Tony Ferguson's never going to retire

and I know that he should but he's never going to retire um Stephen Thompson probably won't retire in the cage if he loses he doesn't want to go I'm extremely confident Stephen Thompson will let us know when he retires and when he does it will be like hey UFC you got to give me a Nico price you got to give me a dude who's going to strike with me who has literally never shot a takedown in the UFC and I'll fight that dude and then I retire. So I don't think so. Like if they lost, Thompson and Ferguson should both retire.

And like there's an argument that Lojovich and frankly, Porre and Gachy should hang it up because they've taken too many things. I don't think we're going to get any of them. Derek Lewis also like theoretically should retire if he loses to Marco Sergio Delima, but I doubt that's going to happen. And I don't want them to retire because I'm torn.

actually the heavyweight fight might be my other my actual low key that I'm the most interested in because if Derek Lewis loses it will be the worst loss of his career everybody else he's lost to has been good um at least whereas marcos roger de lema is not so that would be pretty tough for daric Lewis he's not good like I'm sorry he's just not I've watched the man fight he's not awful but he's not like a top 10 heavyweight and that's sort of the due to Derek Lewis lost to so that'll be a pretty big falling for Derek Lewis um which it's kind of want to see. But also, if he loses, maybe we can get Derek Lewis and BKFC, and I really want to see

Derek Lewis and BKFC. See, the more you think about it, there's a lot of names potentially, but we'll see what happens. Derek Lewis has a chance to retire. I don't think he's going to, but there's an opportunity. What about Kiesa? He's not old. He's not going to retire. Do you hear the way he talked to Ariel?

I mean, his specific words, paraphrasing, because it's only. want to say it's a direct quote what is i've got a lot of tread left on these tires i'm nowhere close to done okay so i don't think he's retiring at all right cool that's ufc 291 it's got to be a fun main card watch party 945 pm eastern on saturday we'll have a preview show tomorrow good does jake matthews retire if he loses to darius flowers i'm short notice you mean former jett former jett mishu top 10 ranked welterweight james james jac matthews may actually have the most to lose this weekend because if he's done he's just done like he still is only 28 so like you could convince me he could have an RDA like late run in his career uh I thought he was doing

it and then he super wasn't um because Matthew Simmelzberger was just bigger than him and he couldn't handle that so it's like if he lose the Darius flowers then he's probably like done done for his career so arguably he's got the most to lose this weekend boarding for flight two 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ocho time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements.

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That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Well, you know who else has a lot to lose? Two men in the boxing ring. Spence Crawford going down on Saturday, Jed. Spence Crawford, big boxing match the same day as UFC 291. There's another event going on right around that's going to begin right around

the same time of UFC 291 that we'll get to in a moment but Spence Crawford, Jed, just all the feels. What a fight. Yeah, it's pretty good, man. It's a pretty good fist fight coming at you. This is, I don't say this often

and I don't think I've ever said it for a Justin Gachie fight. If you can watch one event this weekend, I would watch Spence Crawford over UFC 291. And I love them. I just gave you 20 minutes extolling the virtues of UFC 291. Spence Crawford is as good as boxing gets. Boxing has been unbelievable this year.

Credit to the sport as a whole for making a lot of dope things happen. This is about as dope as it can happen. I think of boxing, particularly at the high level, 12 rounds is so good. It is so, there's so much time for, when we were talking earlier about, the flow and how fights can have a narrative and sort of develop as tactics and adjustments get made. It's really hard in MMA with five minute rounds. And so few of them, you know, 12, three minute rounds really allows an ebb and flow and a story to be told. We are going to get one of those. I think Bud Crawford is going to win. I think he's one of, I would have said he's

the top pound for pound boxer in the world. But I don't know if you happen to be on the internet on Wednesday. But in a way, yeah, in a way, pretty good. So he might actually be the top pound for a boxer in the world. But I think for several years, Bud Crawford has been sort of that guy that I would say is he is capable of doing the most things, I think, of any boxer, like elite level boxer going. He can fight in any fashion, in any direction. His mutability is just insane. And Spence is sort of a purpose. perfect foil to what will go on there. You're getting two dudes with a combined record of like 105 and zero or something,

something insanely stupid like that. It's, boxing does not get better than this. So if you can only watch one, I would say tune in to watch that and then tune into MAAFunding.com for UFC 291. But I mean, it's, we have an embarrassment of riches this weekend, Mike. Yes, we certainly do.

not to mention by the way we'll take a few questions at the end so if you got questions about stuff we haven't talked about or even follow-ups and things we did talk about, throw them in the chat, we'll pull them up and we'll discuss for like 10 or 15 minutes, but Bellator versus Risen 2 going down late Saturday night into early Sunday morning

boy the timing is tough but I was thinking to myself, okay, still a good car, we get Aegee McKee fighting in the lightweight Grand Prix not anymore Well, you don't. Go to MMA fighting. See why?

Just nasty infection for AJ McKee. Totally understandable. And you knew it had to be nasty if AJ McKee is pulling out of a fight at Saitama Super Arena. We know much of that building means to him. But he's still going to be an alternate. And then Satoshi is now in there. It's going to be a catchweight fight with tricky pit bull.

Just, I don't know, man. Like, obviously, I was excited that they were going back to the well. I didn't put two and two together there's going to be the same date as both Spence Crawford and UFC 299. I know it's going to be a little bit later so if you're just you'd shrug a bunch of primes

you could probably watch everything but... Oh, you're going to be fine. Not a... USC 291 and Spence Crawford is going to be much more problematic from a timing standpoint. There's like a real... It's a probability, I would say,

that the main events will be going on concurrently there. because the Bellator fight doesn't start until 11 p.m. Eastern. So probably won't get the main event. The Horoguchi fight, maybe you'll get some overlap, but I would guess you could avoid. I guess we'll see. Yeah.

What's your level of interest in Bellator versus Verizon, too? Like none. And that's unfortunate. And so Bellator people, if you're watching, I'm sorry. It's not your fault. It is your fault, though. because I don't know, like there's combat sports schedule out there. You can just look at a calendar and know what you're going up against

and be like, hey, this might not be the best weekend for us to pick to do this thing. Because on a normal weekend, I'd say that I'm pretty interested in this. Like, okay, yeah, like certainly it would have been cooler for AJ McKee instead of Satoshi. But this fight is probably better because AJ McKee was going to transfer tricky. that does. I mean, Satoshi probably beats Patrigi, but A.J. McHugh is going to trounce him. But you get Keoggi fighting for a flyweight belt again, which is really, really fun. Danny Sabs is getting after it against a double magamad.

That's always, you know, probably going to be maybe not fun, but interesting. And Koreskov Larkin is like really a very good fight. So there are good matchups here that would normally draw my attention. I can't. I have too much other stuff that I'm interested in that I'm hyper interested in. So it is just that I can only spread so thin. And so this one is extremely low on the totem pole of my care. I am hoping that I will be able to find a feed that I can watch at the airport on Sunday coming back from New York.

And then that's what I will do. I will go to the airport early and I will watch this card. I will try to avoid spoilers as much as possible. But even if I see him, there are some good, some fun fights on here. I am the Horaguchi Tagashi fight is going to be sick Even the Watsanabe Veda-T-Aga's a good fight

Is this just on showtime? I don't know I think this is just on showtime I think if you download the Showtime app You can just watch this on your phone Okay So I can watch it on Paramount Plus then probably I don't think

I don't think I'll watch it after right Yeah you should be able to I don't think that the Ryzen part is on Showtime Don't quote me on that, but I think the Bellator part is just part of the Showtime thing. So you just watch that on your phone. Are they going to air it live?

I'm looking at it on Tapology and it says Showtime. I'm sure that Showtime is airing it live, yes. Okay. All right. Well, there you go. I will watch. I will not watch live, but I will watch on Sunday because I am intrigued. I think it is going to be a fun watch either way.

So there you go. There's Saturday in a nutshell. Let's bring in Casey. we'll take 10 15 minutes take a couple questions if there are any all right and then we'll get the hell out of here so case case you're just showing off the pipes I mean it's just not even fair you're hurting people's feelings without sleeves Casey I am super excited about the bell atro rising card

I love the fact that it's just one extremely long night of fights for me starting at the first fight for 2991 then the watching both screens and then as soon as that press conference is done, Fortune 91, focus all on rising card. And yeah, I think, like, I think the, the, so all these showtime fights, the Bellator fights are at the beginning of the card, and then it becomes just a rising card.

And the writing card's fun too. Yeah. The rising card is fun. There's a zero percent chance I'll be watching that because it'll be like 6 a.m. my time or something. Yeah, you East Coasters, yeah, that's a bad news. Plus there will be an intermission because there's always an intermission.

Two intermissions. There's already two intermissions. I will probably go to bed and then wake up at like nine and it will still be finishing up. Yeah. Yeah. I like the card. It's just,

I'm just not going to be able to watch a lot. I've just no way. For American fans, sorry, for American fans, I get it. It's a hard, it's a hard,

it's hard to do. But for Japanese fans, I think it's fine. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. I understand the, And that's fine.

You definitely don't have to cater to me. Like, I totally get it. Sure. All right. Let's bring some questions up. Boxing question. Can we talk about the absurdity of Espinoza talking about anyway jumping up only 13 pounds to fight Tank Davis?

It's like asking Dravante to fight the Spence Crawford winner. Yeah. Boy, Stephen Espinosa going full-on promoter, huh? Trying to book this fight? Do you think this fight? Do you think there's a chance this fight ever happen? I'm not going to say ever, but I think this fight happens anytime soon, Inouay versus Tank? No, I don't think it happens anyway soon.

I will very lightly defend Espinoza here. I understand the blowback that he has immediately gotten from combat sports fans. To some extent, I'm kind of with him. I'm like, yes, I do believe that 13 pounds, particularly the lighter you go, the more that that's going to matter. but in a very similar vein we're talking about like what's what was a this was a super ban on weight bout or was it just a ban on weight fight for uh yeah against fulton that was just bannam weight or was it super bannam weight i'm not 100% sure in the way you're looking it up yeah i just it's which is a super bannam weight so it's well that's 122 so you know realistically we were saying DJ going up to 135, which we talk about. And like, it's not insignificant, but I do not, I somewhat agree with him as like,

it doesn't feel like that's an amount of weight that should be, that should preclude this fight from happening. Yes, it probably does give Tank a major advantage, and you should factor that in, should they fight. But it's not like, uh, 30 pounds. 30 pounds to me is like, uh, okay, that's probably a ridiculous thing. But if I just go into a gym and I'm going to put in some work with some dude, if I'm going to be like, you're 12 pounds heavier than me.

Don't think I can roll with you today or whatever. I do feel like we overrate weight a lot in combat sports personally. I feel like in boxing, they're much more particular on like, well, I can't fight this weight class. It's two pounds heavier than a normal fight. You hear that a lot of boxing. They absolutely are. And that's why you have phantom weight and super band. them weight and the weight classes bounced on eight like eight pounds or whatever and y'all know me for

years i have been on the i don't need that like i do understand the argument i just sort of don't care to have 50 weight classes because we really need to delineate between eight pound groupings like if you're within 10 and 15 pounds of each other that can help we're talking very small margins at the very top of any sport are going to play factors but i don't think it's like wildly deterministic in a way that should make everybody be like, that's insane. He weighs 10 pounds more. Yeah. And if you went into any gym, they would probably be sparring partners because they are roughly near each other in size. You know something that weighs a lot that could tune down this a little bit? A bag of money. Like a big huge bag of money. Also that. My thing I always come

down to if Inouye and Tank had beef outside a bar, Inouye would not be like, whoa, buddy, you are simply too large for me to fist fight you right now. And that's sort of where I always come down. It's like, yeah, I get it. And you guys are really talking about like the meritocracy of sport. Okay. At the same time, this is a fight. So like, if they would fight in a bar if they had beef, I'm not sure we should care that

much about 13 pounds. that'll be a sick fight in a bar javanti should be dope watching boxing boxers get into fist fights in the wild is hilarious yeah because people

people do not see it coming hands are so fast so fast it could be like Rocky Tommy gun and Rocky 5 just right in the street everyone just circling around them be fun yeah but no I do think we probably won't get it

because of the weight but I I I get why people, you know, went at Espinoza, but I kind of agree with him. Yeah. Best walkout song between Derek Lewis, Tony Ferguson, and Dustin Porreier. My answer is Dustin Porreier, easy. My answer is. Top drop, fat, easy. Top drop, fat, baby.

Not close. Yeah. I'm a classic guy, so. I get it. I love James Brown and I love what Porre is doing. But the, and, like, there was that whole, like, period of his thing was, like, pay you know paid in full or whatever uh the fat fat fat and just uh everything about the where derrick lewis is the way the song starts yeah it's i think derrick lewis has among the best

walkouts in m mary history as a result of a good one it's definitely a good one also shout up to tony ferguson too i mean i'm not a fan of that song but it fits him it does yeah yeah i think that's yeah tony ferguson runaway loser of these three though As far as far as, let's go. He would ease. He will come up last in any grouping of these three. What does Gachie walk out to? He doesn't really have a signature song, does he?

He's not like. I can't think of what Gachie walks out to. Nothing that jumps out at me. I wonder why- Gage probably picks his walkout song the day he wakes up. I am kind of feeling this song, like he strikes me. I've always kind of, I wonder why that is. Like some like legendary fighters, you don't really have like a legendary walkout song.

Like, I don't think of John Jones. Jones is like a certain song. Do, or does he change it all the time? So, uh, well, John, he went to New York for a while. I always think of, uh, he used to walk out to pose angry Johnny, like at his beginning of his career. And of the many things that he is fucked up in his life, changing away from that walkout, I think is the most egregious.

Because if he had like a decade of coming out to angry Johnny, it would be the most, like, because it's honestly a perfect walkout. a song for him. Like, there are a couple of highlights on YouTube set to it that are unbelievable. And it's just like, yeah, you should have been doing this for a decade and it would be a legendary walkout. And instead, he did the, I'm from New York, whatever thing. And his mix it up a little.

God gave me style. A 50 cent was when he walked out to for Cyril Gahn. I think he's walked out to that a few times. That's like part of the mix. It's a jam. Yeah, good songs. But it doesn't stick to him. It's not like the judge, like, it's just funny how some fighters just had that song and.

Yeah, they just pick one that works. Yeah. If you're, if you're going to mix it up, I am long enough, you should just pick one or you should pick one that is specifically good for each opponent or situation like, we talked about Loller coming out to the last Lamehican song. That worked. That works. Like, if you're going to do something like that, do that. Otherwise, pick one and just roll with it because then fans can get to know you for. from it over the years.

Still, I think the best, honestly, the best ever, I still think, as far as like perfect for the fighter, Ronda Rousey's bad reputation by. It's really good. It's just fits are perfect and just a great walkout long of the time. I still think, I still think Wanderly and Sandstorm, even though it's dumb. It's dumb, but it's still, it's just iconic. It's just, it's too, too iconic. You can't hear that song about thinking of Vanderley.

Yeah, exactly. Dude, when college football season comes around and like half the teams that play college football, play Sandstorm at various points in times, every time I'm like, man, be a lot cooler. Vandy was coming out of that tunnel instead of Vandy football team or whatever. Was Sandstorm always like a hit with like just general sports? Or did it be, did it kind of did it come over from M.M.A.? It's just, it's stadium anthony for sure. It is.

I don't remember it being a stadium song until like. semi recently like maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm wrong I just don't I can't ignore it until I start saying yeah no one all right oh we can talk about this is kind of interesting elevation let's talk about it how much will play a factor UFC 291 so I I think there are certain fights it will play a factor like I don't think the main event play it plays much of a factor I think if that fight happens in Vegas or the street or even outside a bar

I feel like they're just going to do enough to each other where they would slow down anyways. So maybe like some effect, but I think if you did the same fight elsewhere, I think the remnants are going to be kind of the same. Like I think Wonderboy Pereira, it could affect Pereira, obviously. Like if Pereira does what you say he will do, Jed, and just take Wonder Boy down and try to hold him down. Third round Pereira, I'm not very confident in. I think he kind of fades out a little bit.

I think that altitude gets to him. I think there are certain guys in this car I mean obviously Derek Lewis Barker's Rejuri to Lima if that fight gets out of the first round it's going to be I don't even know what the first three minutes buddy is there a certain yeah

is outside of that fight is there a certain fight you think elevation could really play a factor so we talked about this a little on Novice Bard I kind of think all and none right so I mean you just look at the last Utah card

a lot of decisions. I think there were seven decisions of 12 fights, and then the main event went to the fifth round and hearing Leon Edwards talk about it afterwards is like, yeah, I couldn't do anything and my body didn't work because of the elevation. So I think it would be foolish to suggest that elevation isn't going to play a factor

in probably a lot of these fights. On the one hand, the main event should be the one that it plays the least role in because these are the two dudes most economically equipped to prepare for this. They're super professional, been in the game a long time. At the same time, Ann Edwards is super professional, and he almost died at elevation apparently.

He just physically couldn't make his body work as he's told it afterwards. So the main event gives me pause in part because apparently, from what I can tell, it seems like Porie did not get there until this week, whereas Gagey's been in Utah for some time, and the rest of the time he lives at Colorado at elevation. So there's absolutely a world where that is a major advantage for Gae. I will, you know, gut instinct, say Porre is too much of a professional, but I would not bet my house on that one. I think the Pereira one you noted, super relevant just because we have seen his gas tank be a struggle.

The other thing, though, that gas tank has largely been a struggle when he's doing weird Capoeira jump spinning attacks. if he's just going to tackle Wonderboy, it might not matter. So we'll see the heavyweight fight. If it goes past three minutes, that fight's going 15. It's going to be really bad. And I think then just every other fight on the undercard, these fighters are not prepared for it ever because they don't have the economic means to go to Utah for two months ahead of a fight or whatever.

And that has changed the fate of titles. Sea level cane lost the heavyweight. title because Verdum went to Mexico a month early. Like that's talking undercard fighters here. Miranda Maverick might get real tired in six minutes in Priscilla Cashware. I can beat her. So I would say that it is absolutely going to affect it, but it's like a knuckleball. Like you don't really know which way it's going to break.

Casey, let me ask you this. And then, Jed, I'll get your take on this. I think people when we look at Tony Fergus and Bobby Green, we expect some sadness. right? Do you feel like the elevation actually is an advantage for Tony Ferguson because of his gas tank, his cardio. You sure you didn't listen to that's hard this week? No, I haven't, I haven't listened to any of it yet. I already haven't keyed up for my drive later on tonight for my errands. So do you think that this is a, do you think being in Salt Lake City is an advantage for Tony Ferguson for this fight? I don't think it's going to go extremely well for him, but because it's here

that maybe, maybe it will if he comes out with a crazy pace. A lot of times when I think of fighters, I think of fighters in two ways. Like how they fight at 100% and how they fight at 25%. And like someone like Connor McGregor, world beater at 100%.

He can beat anyone in the world at full gas thing. But he only has a full gas thing for, I think, about 90 seconds. Now someone like Tony Ferguson, I think is still in general, I think I'm kind of classic Tony. When he came up at 25%, he is still unbelievably dangerous.

So that's why I think at a tired, exhausted Tony has a better chance of beating a tired, exhausted Bobby Green, I guess. You know what I'm saying? I think at 100% I think Bobby Green wins this fight pretty easily when they're both just beating up and exhausted. I think Tony Ferguson has a significant advantage. So, yeah. But question for Jed. you said Tony's washed. If he loses this fight, I think there'll be six in a row.

Six in a row. Six in a row. What was the record for most consecutive losses in the UFC and still? I believe BJ has, and I think it's eight, but let me confirm that. Yeah, I know BJ and there are a couple of people with seven. I think BJ took it with eight. He maybe has it with somebody else, but let me pull up BJ right now. Sam Alvio's up there too.

BJ does have eight, seven in a row. BJ has seven in a row, and then a draw with John Fitch. But I think BJ, I think seven in a row is it, maybe it's eight. I mean, Tony Ferguson will be an elite company as far as losing consecutively in the UFC goes. How do you see Bobby Green now at this point in his career? You said you're pretty convinced Tony's washed. Is Bobby Green washed? No.

He's not washed at all. His last two losses. You don't think of him. He's 36 years old. He's got it, you know, it's very high-revelexive. I don't think he's at his best. Yeah, I don't, I'm not here to say Bobby Green's prime anymore, but he's beating the hell out of Drew Dober until Drew Dober just landed a really big shot. And that can happen.

And then it's hard to take a loss is Islam Akachev beating. Okay. Well, well, it was okay. I thought he was beating Jared Gordon before the clash of heads thing happened very quick. So you can't take like too much from that. I would say Bobby Green is not, he's not at his peak, certainly, but I don't think he's washed. And it's hard to know when exactly Tony got washed because part of it is he has lost to a string of exceedingly exceedingly great competition. But it's not just who you lose to.

It's how you lose to him. And he was so inert against Pineal Darius. And Nate Diaz, who's Nate Diaz, like that one, that fight sold me more than anything that he was washed. I was pretty sure he was washed before then. And the Nate Diaz was just like, I know a lot of weird things, short notice, etc. He looks old. And the thing that really makes me not happy about this week,

the Embedded's, Tony looks old, man. Tony looks. He just looks old now. Old. And I said for years at the peak of his run, I was like, this can't last because of the way he tried. trains. Like, think about Tony Ferguson and all the stuff that people are like, oh, this is so cool.

Like, look at him doing this insane thing where he rust 8,000 pounds on his neck and then does chin ups or whatever. I always looked at that and was like, that's not sustainable. And he's probably going to really, really hurt himself one day. I don't really think that that helped him any. And now he's 39 years old in a division where he can't be old in general. and he hasn't won in forever and he just he looks to me like BJ did at the end of his career run

and he will keep he says the same stuff of like I'm finally back I'm doing it for me really excited and the entire embedded series have looked at him and I'm just been like dude you're not it's not there and I put it this way on um on no bet's bard I didn't do a deep dive I can only think of one fighter off the top of my head who lost five in a row and then went on two to get significant wins. There are other people who have lost a bunch

and then got a win and then lost more and that win wasn't like super significant. The only guy can think of who has done that is Andro Olavski, who is incredibly unique and it's at heavyweight. And Bobby Green is not the best, but he is still a significant win. Like if Tony Ferguson wins this,

Bobby Green's still a top 25 lightweight, probably, like in that conversation at least. So I just think he has no chance. since 2020 he's won he's five four and one the losses are to Tiago Moises is probably like

the 17th best lightweight in the world Raphael Fiziv was the top 10 lightweight Islam Akashev is the freaking champion and Drew Dober is a fringe top 15 lightweight He was top top 20 dude

And he was looking good And the Jared Gordon and Jared Gordon fight was just ended weird He didn't look good early but I thought he had found his rhythm by the time Jared I thought he had found his rhythm and I was like oh he's about to win this fight and then that happened and it was weird and it's just like I don't know Tony Ferguson is clearly not where he was athletically and I think many people may have underrated how important athleticism was to Tony's particular brand of fighting and I think he's about to get his ears boxed by Bobby Green though I will say the elevation is potentially a game changer Bobby Green's always been very good like he's not like he'd get gas out of

But that is a as case pointed out super big strength of Ferguson. So if he can survive the first round, maybe Bobby Green tapers off a little bit. And Tony can can get things going for old time's sake. Did you rewatch the Chandler Ferguson fight? Have you, have you watched it? Yeah. What did you like? Tony was winning the first round.

He dropped Chandler, like hard drop Chandler. Yeah. It looked really good. That fight still confuses me so much. is like how much like if Tony had won that say he actually finished chander like it's just amazing how much the kind of trajectory of both guys careers change and there's the same fighter oh yeah it's amazing that's why i love this that's one of the reasons i love this sport is because the margins are so small yeah and like and it's all insane and you hear like this is a it's a trope in athletics

in general but like you're when you get old it's not that you can't do it anymore it's that you can't do it all the time anymore you are as good as you were once, but not always as good as you once were. And like Tony Ferguson can still do Tony Ferguson things occasionally, but over 15 minutes against people who are not diminished, you're rolling the dice. Every exchange is a dice roll, like every single one of them. And eventually, you're, if you're falling off, then you start to lose the dice rolls and you lose enough of them and you lose. And it gets the guy like Michael Chandler, you could be winning all those dice rolls, but you lose one and he punts you in the face. And you,

you're done. Bobby Green is helpful in this regard and that Bobby Green is probably not going to one hit or quitter him, but I think he's just going to lose a lot of dice rolls and lose the decision. Should the light heavyweight championship have been on the line Saturday? Who knows when year he returns to the cage? What if the winner is serious injuries could be the first quarter of 2024 for vacant title fight, which could happen anyways. If Connor, if Connor fights in December, and I'm not ruling it out because the UFC could just be like, screw you, you're out of like he's in it's probably one's like it would happen anyway that yeah it's i mean that's when the fight's going to happen anyway so i don't know i mean they could have done it but

it's no giant rush really i think i think they should have done it i think they just should have done it was why not why not why not you the ufc already established that their light heavyweight belt does not mean anything they did it themselves i am not the one who said it they had They were like, oh, shit, we need a title fight now. We're just going to have these two dudes fight for the belt. Let's go, Magabed. Let's go, Jan, fight it up. Oh, you guys had a draw in a fight that we didn't like.

And so we're in our feels about it. And we're going to immediately just pick two other dudes to fight for the belt. Let's go do this. They already devalued the title. They made the title useless and meaningless. It just so happens that there is a dude who is the best light heavyweight on earth right now. and he'll probably get to fight for the vacant belt. But they could have just as easily said, Yololo, just do it.

And why not? It would have been fun. It would have been stupid. It would have been incredibly unique for Alex Pereira to have a chance to be a two-division champion and maybe suck at MMA. Like, he might still not be good. But he could have been a two-division champion. It would have been incredible.

And I honestly don't see why they didn't do it. There's no real reason the winner of this could then fight Yerri in December for the belt, which probably is what happens anyway. So why not just make this for the belt since you stripped your champion or he vacated? Like, I have no idea why we didn't do this, none whatsoever. Because the UFC didn't want to pay. They don't have to pay.

I just say, we're going to do it. It's not what a fighter's going to stand up for themselves for the first time in history. No. The only reason that they should not have done it is if both Yian and Pereira like, I'm not going to fight five rounds. And they definitely wouldn't have said I'm not going to fight five rounds if a belt was on the line.

They should absolutely make this for the title. Yeah. Yon said that they had like brief discussions and then that was it. And Pereira said it was never brought to his attention. Yeah. Why not? Like this I don't, I genuinely don't understand. Sure, there's no rush, but there was no rush to do it.

And it's like, they just, there's like, ah, we're mad that that fight went to a draw. So January, let's have a title fight. Like, why just do this one? we're mad that Jamal broke himself playing basketball. Burr. It would have been way cooler, way cooler to do this. It would have been way cooler, but man, it was still kind of bothered me, Perey getting a title shot off zero wins, zero wins at 205.

And yeah, it was just, it been odd, but I can't, for the funness factor. Yeah, I wouldn't. John Mulhovic could be a two-time, lay heavyweight champion, which if you told me that in, I don't know, 2018, that Jan Belhovic was going to be a two. If the day after Dustin Porey and Justin G.

He had the fight of the year in 2018, you were like, guess what? Jan Belhovic, who later this year is going to get iced up by Tiago Santos. That dude, that dude is going to be a

two-time light heavyweight champion. I would laugh in your friggin face. And instead, we could have lived in that world, guys. Yep. could have. Well, you could hit, I think we're good. Unless we have one amazing question. Oh, what's her last? Let me see.

Anything amazing? I love Yanni Blockow so much, guys. His career is incredible to me. Last one. Is A.K. still vacationing and watching Fast the Furious? He was on, on to the next one. He's back. He's back. He was on tough hang, I believe, too.

Wasn't he? He wasn't tough hang. Yeah. Yeah. He came back. He came back for the worst episode two of the season. That's saying a lot. That is saying a lot.

Haven't watched a second of that program and I feel great about my choices. I got a feeling you're going to be watching this week. He might be on this week. Get ready. Hold on to that tag rope and extend your hand because I think you might be attacked. Nobody has brought this to my attention thus far. So we're trying to find the right moment. We'll see.

We'll see. Keep your ringer on, Jed, keep your ring around because Conner's traveling to Dallas Tuesday. I'm traveling to Dallas Tuesday. Someone's got to do it. I don't have to watch it to do tough hang. I can absolutely do tough hang without watching that show. That would be great.

You can just watch the fight. Won't even watch that. I'll just do tough hang blind and we'll see what happens. I'll just say, I'll speak generically. Man, that was a fight. I'll be like Dana at post-fighter. pressers when someone asked him about an undercard fighter and he has no idea how you're talking about it yeah yeah it's good it's good it's really good it's just

a really tough kid out there you know he showed how tough he has always comes to scrap and uh that's why we like him you know he's moving on to the semi final finals he's moving moving on in the tournament um well you know he's gonna have an opportunity if he keeps keeps performing like this he could find himself the winner of the ultimate fighter and get that same figure contract. See, I nailed it. He nailed it. Also, I do at least know from hearing y'all talk about it that Connor sucks as a coach

and all of the rookies that got greased. So I can just be like, I mean, that's what being a veteran fighter gets you out there. He showed that experience. That's why he was previously in the UFC. So, oh, there's a rookie succeeded. Good for him. Austin Rico, baby. The 36-year-old, the 36-year-old rookie prospect.

It's a prospect. Is he a heavyweight? Then he's definitely a prospect at 36. Bannamweight. Just he knocked out. Oh, he's a 36-year-old Bannam weight. Why would you even put a 36-year-old Bannam weight on that show? You got to come.

Rigo's fought because RICO's fine. Why? Dude, just sign him then. Why would you put him on this show a show explicitly for prospects? He's 36. He's not a prospect. He has like at most two good years in this way. class and that's even asking a lot.

He beat the 31 year old hunter, Hunter Azure. That's a vet. That was a crazy ass not going. Will Brooks didn't get a chance on the show, which is still unbelievable. I honestly, I want this bit to go on forever because it's, it tickles me that Will Brooks is clearly deserving of another shot and for no discernible reason. Like all he is doing is asking for it. And the OC is just kind of like, nah.

He's like, I will pay you. We're going to do an ultimate fighter season, pitting former vets getting one last chance. And one of the weight classes just happens to be lightweight. And Will Brooks is just right there. And Michael Chandler. And Michael Chandler. You love drama.

Michael Chandler's right there. Yeah. I don't understand how you don't put Michael. Oh, here I am veteran Will Brooks being coached by Michael Chandler. Dude, I beat twice. Twice. Be unbelievable. It's, I don't, I don't.

It's one of the best running bits that the UFC has going right now. And so as unfortunate as it is for Will Brooks, I'm kind of into it. Fair. All right. Hit the music. Let's get on out of here. Appreciate you back. I don't know what BTL is going to look like next week.

We're going to try to do something we've never, ever done before. So stay tuned for that. We'll let you know. But in the meantime, enjoy all the chaos this weekend, preview show tomorrow. more 291 chatter throughout the week on M-AFundee.com. For Casey on the ones and twos, for Jed Mishu, I am Mike Eckack. Back next week, the iconic voice of that's one that takes you home.

We'll see you next time. On Between the Lakes, Guy that, everybody. Love you all. Between the Rings and the Navy Fighting Production on the Vox Media Network.