MMA Fighting - BTL | Francis Ngannou's Future, Dana White's Response, Figueiredo vs. Moreno, Bellator 273 and Eagle FC

Episode Date: January 27, 2022

Francis Ngannou isn't budging at all after retaining his UFC heavyweight title this past weekend. This week on Between the Links, the panel will discuss Ngannou's title defense at UFC 270, his unbelievable interview on The MMA Hour and what his future may look like, Dana White's response to why he didn't put the belt on Ngannou following his win over Ciryl Gane, whether or not the UFC should book Deiveson Figueiredo vs. Brandon Moreno 4 right away, excitement levels for Bellator 273 and Eagle FC's next event going down this weekend, and more. Mike Heck moderates the grudge match between MMA Fighting's Alexander K. Lee and Eric 'New York Ric' Jackman. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Alexander K. Lee: @AlexanderKLee Follow Eric Jackman: @NewYorkRic Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your people, money, and agents, so you can transform tomorrow. Workday, moving business forever forward. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links. Our host, my... Yes, the iconic voice of Esther Lynn. welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Lanks. Hope you're doing well on this Thursday afternoon.

We got ourselves a grudge match because if you recall, it was the BTL tournament finale. Earlier this month, Alexander K. Lee jumps in as an alternate against Jed Mishu. It came down to the knockout round where special guest judge New York Rick awarded the matchup and the championship to Jed Mishu. And that decision rubbed A.K. the wrong way. and then he went on to cut one of the best post-match promos in history, especially coming off a loss. He crapped on this show. He crapped on everything this show stood for,

but he really let New York Rick have it. So let us introduce the aforementioned AK Lee from M.M.A.fighting.com, the co-host of the next one, the ranking show, and at least most of the time, the Prince of Positivity. Hello, AK. Did I, what, did I cut a promo? Did I say, I don't, that doesn't, that doesn't say. sound like me, Mike. I don't think I would

handle a loss like that in such a graceless way. I honestly don't remember. It was a very emotional match. The whole situation was emotional coming in as a late replacement. Anytime you're in there with Jedmishu, there's all kinds of thoughts and it's like a storm going on in your brain.

So I cannot be held accountable for what I said. I don't think I said anything too offensive about BTL or today's opponent or yourself, Mike, or producer E. Casey Liden or anybody. So I'm not apologizing because I I don't think I, I don't think I cross any lines if we're being real here. So you are saying right now that you didn't say you were more of a Connor Birx guy than a New Yorkerick guy?

Did you not say that? I am very fond of the work of Connor Burks. He's been, it's great to see him on the M.M.A. hour, you know, this extended part of the the MA fighting family, I think very highly of him, how I may have phrased a compliment his direction. Some of him and else may have taken it the wrong way. That's not on me. I'll do a classic PR move. I apologize if I offended anyone with my praise of Connor Burks.

I'm so excited for this. Let us introduce his opponent. Mr. New York, Rick, kind enough to join us this week. M.MA fighting's own New York, Rick, the social media guru himself. Thank you for doing this, my man. How are you and how are you feeling about this grudge match? I'm doing fantastic, Mike. Thanks for having me.

It's an honor to be on the show, I think very highly of this show. I would not just dare disparage it in the way that Alexander Cayley did. As far as how I feel about the grudge match, I don't feel much at all. I'll be completely honest. Like, you know, I'm going up against somebody who lost the Jed. So there's not much on the line here. Like, you know, the stakes aren't very high. This is a walk in the park.

So I don't think much, to be honest. And hopefully my opponent can prove me right here. Wow. AK just with the shake of the head. Well, as interesting as this matchup is and this. rivalry is, it pales in comparison to the battle Francis and Gano just had. And we'll continue to go through because the UFC heavyweight champion went into UFC 270 with the weight of the

world on his shoulders, on his back. He gambled on himself. He had issues with the UFC. He had a deal with his old coach burying him in every interview in the buildup to the fight. The contract, the demanding of respect that he wasn't getting. And oh yeah, doing all of this with a wrecked knee, emails about lawsuits, text messages from random Vegas numbers sent to his manager, all of this going on ahead of a heavyweight title defense, and he still went in there and won the fight against Cyril Ghan

after being down two rounds. So, AK, let me start with you. Knowing everything we know now, how impressive does Francis and Gano's win look now? I mean, I thought it was impressive at the time. I know we've been saying repeatedly, like, obviously there's so much stuff around the fight that if you just saw the fight in a void, if you were unaware of, again, the pre-fights or the contract negotiation drama, maybe even

unaware of the history between City of Gan and France and Ganu, unaware of how Francis usually fights. If you just saw that, you might, this is like your first time watching UFC heavyweight championship fight. You might watch it and be like, oh, that's like the worst fight ever. This is terrible. One guy just wrestled another guy. I don't understand.

I see two big, like, musselty punchy guys in there. Why did the fight go this way? but with all the context I mean it was so fascinating I think it's a heavyweight title fight we will be talking about for so long not just because of out unfolded not just because of again

what I think was a wonderful mixing of the martial artist by Francis and Ghanu yes we love the power punching put a guy away in under 30 seconds Francis but for him to show this extra this new this new facet of his game

one that they had said look he he's actually really taken to grappling. He's got a real passion for it. He showed his improvements in the steepy and Mojich fight. It was a long time ago, so maybe, I don't know, people forgot his ability to sprawl, has improved wrestling defense, or maybe just the, or maybe they thought that was the limits of it. He'll be a defensive wrestler and use that to stand in bang. No one thought he could take over and win a fight on points with grappling. Again, that to me is quintessential mixed martial arts. Do I want to see him, again, just grounding and neutralizing every opponent,

he faces going forward. I don't know. I guess it would depend who it is. I certainly don't want to miss the, I don't want to lose, excuse me, the free swinging, anything can happen like knockout power version of Franz Nganu. But occasionally, and facing a guy who's an expert striker, people saying maybe the best striker in the heavyweight division, it was just so cool to see. So I love it.

I love how everything around it has been handled so far. Again, on its own, a fascinating fight. Everything that's surrounding it, man, I don't know. Well, I guess we'll talk about that more. But just the fight itself and just the performance, absolutely outstanding. And I think also the way he's carried himself has been great. Eric, would you think, especially when we tack on just how serious this knee injury is, we just found out yesterday. He's going to need surgery.

He's going to be out for a while. We'll talk about what that means for the division and for the title and all that stuff in a little while. But just everything we've known and everything we've learned over the last couple days about just heading into the fight with everything he's had to deal with. How impressive is this win? Yeah, it's very impressive. Francis Inganu in now being able to admit that he was heard and had the knee injury has called it stupid. I would also call it stupid. Not the best move when everything is hinging on this to go into that fight injured.

But I think a lot of fighters go in dinged up and are facing adversity, whether it be actual physical injuries in the case of Francis and Ganu or things outside the cage. He was facing both and still came in and found a way to have success. for me the defining conversation around this fight is twofold. One, in the fight itself, we had been sold for many, many months that Cyril Gan

was the evolution of the heavyweight division. That Cyril Gan was something we had never seen before, that Cyril Gan was going to be the man to dethrone everybody and reign for as long as he wanted. And Francis Nganu, primarily a power puncher, one of the most devastating power punchers in the world,

came out there and rustle. him. So if that was the evolution, I would question, I would question those that thought that we were going to see that evolution because if the evolution includes not being able to stop takedowns from Francis and Ghanu, I would question whether that premise could stand on its own in the first place. Go into the fight, Francis Ngano gets the job done. Again, facing tremendous adversity. I thought it was an incredible performance and to be able to compartmentalize all those things, tremendous. then he fields the questions from the media after Dana White doesn't put the belt on him, which I thought he handled perfectly, rolls into an interview with Ariel Halani,

which I thought he handled perfectly. And every step along the way, he was nailing it. It was A plus, A plus, A plus, A plus, A plus. And then we got to yesterday when it was announced that he was going to have surgery. And all the momentum, all the leverage, everything that Francis and Ghanu had in his favor disappeared. And I'll tell you why. if he hadn't announced the surgery, he would be able to insert himself into the conversation and continue to say, hey, I'm going to fight. UFC is not able to fulfill that obligation and continue to put the pressure and the onus on the UFC to address Francis and Gano.

Now, the UFC is going to be able to put Francis Ingano on the shelf and say, hey, any questions we get about Francis and Gano, he's not fighting. He's currently getting surgery. We're not ready to talk about him because he's not ready to fight. When he's ready, we can address this. So Francis and Ghanu from having all that leverage, all that pressure, all that opportunity and capitalizing on the performance, now by electing to go into surgery and put himself on the shelf, kind of is removing that pressure from the UFC. And in a year's time, when this decision that he has to make comes up, I feel like he will have lost a lot of momentum. It's unfortunate, but I thought it was A plus plus all the way through until yesterday. Wow, that is a really interesting take on this.

And we're definitely going to dive into that a whole bunch more a little bit later. But I want to go back, Eric, to this incredible interview between Ariel and France and Gano on Monday. This was an all-timer. And he was talking about everything that happened. Dana, not wrapping the belts around him, not showing up to the press conference. We'll talk more about that in the second round. But, I mean, this was one of the all-time great open and honest interviews. He just did not care.

His feet were planted in the sand. and he wasn't budging. He didn't hold back, and he talked about a lot of these things that we referenced earlier, the threat of the lawsuit hours before the fight. Just hearing that was absolutely insane to hear. There was a lot of craziness in this interview. There's a lot of shoulder shrugging and rolling of the eyes. Like, really this happened?

But I'm curious, Eric, what stood out the most to you about this interview? What was the biggest takeaway you had? The biggest takeaway for me was that I think Francis and Gano had a lot of opportunity. and every right to be disgruntled, to be upset, to be emotional, to be angry, to take cheap shots at Dana White, at the UFC, at everybody who's wronged him. But what we saw was a motivated man, a man with a with something, a larger goal in mind, a classy individual, just based on the interactions that people seem to have with him and how he presented himself in that interview. Francis and Ghanu continuing to voice his displeasure without lessening the impact of what he's saying by taking cheap shots or lowering himself to a level that he is well within his right, I would say, based on the situation to do is what stood out to me. So the openness, the honestness, certainly that can be appreciated and I think will be impactful. And I think that interview will stand the test of time and be an important one.

but I think it's Francis and Gano's continued ability to take these slights, internalize them, and come forward with a positive demeanor and a game plan that's going to get him what he wants. And hopefully successfully, it seems like he's moving in the right direction for that. But it is his demeanor. That is the thing I will take away from it. What about you, A.K. What was the thing you took away the most from that interview on Monday with Francis? Yeah, somewhat along those lines.

I think what's different about Francis and other people have complained about the UFC sort of butted heads with the UFC in the past. Connor would be an example, Nate Diaz, of course, is it is lacking that sort of bluster that can make people think this is more of like a self-promotion thing. This is more like sort of empty talk. This is just like an extension of persona. We talked a lot about going into the fight with Seattle-Lagan, how sort of how classy Cialaun is. And Francis has very much carried himself the same way, too. He certainly has shown a little more sort of willingness to be aggressive with his comments. Maybe it's just, you know, that's a side effect of training so much in the U.S., getting a little of that North American attitude.

Well, really specifically people in the U.S., not Canadians, obviously. But I think that's going to make a difference going forward because, again, this is a debate people want to take seriously. Even when someone like Jake Paul comes forth and, you know, starts presenting. these actual issues. There still is this skepticism that is this real, is this for self-benefit? We just saw today. He's now releasing a Dana White disc track, which again, I mean, mileage may vary. Some people may find that hilarious. But it does sort of take away from, again, the seriousness of this supposed battle he wants to be fighting for fighter rights. So Francis, you know, hasn't kind of gone as far as to say that, like, I'm doing this for other fighters. He's kind of been smart

enough to say this is about me, this is about my situation. But I think by extension, whether he realizes it or not, he can make this really strong stance. And maybe it's naive of me to think that because he's handing this in such a professional way and because I do feel like despite the surgery and the upcoming activity, he still has quite a bit of leverage. I think that I want to believe that this will lead to something. Because we always talk about it's the biggest stars at the top. They're going to have to sacrifice and going to have to fight the UFC if there's ever going to

be any sort of change to the bargaining, to the negotiating. again, it's happened before. I know bigger names than him have made waves. But like we said, the way he hands himself in interviews, the way he handles off in that interview, it's so telling. And I hope people take the delivery of the message with as much weight as the message itself. So, yeah, his demeanor and his character is just so important. And we'll see how much that resonates with people going forward. So kind of going back to Eric's point, AK, I'm going to start with you on this because in Ghana is getting the surgery on the knee.

He's going home to celebrate the wins, come back to the U.S. to get the surgery. I'm told around March is what they're looking at timeline-wise. And he's likely done for the rest of the year because they're staying eight to nine months. And even if he's cleared to train in November or go into a camp in November, there's no way he's going to be ready by December.

So by all accounts, that means his contract with the UFC will officially be fulfilled and he can test the waters unless he's just a super freak, which is possible. And he comes back in like six months and does a Tony Ferguson. So, AK, in your heart of hearts, after all that has been done here, and we'll talk about where this division might go, like I said, a little bit later on.

You heard Eric's take on this, which I thought was really interesting. Do you feel that Saturday night, UFC 270, this title defense, this is the last time we see France and Gano in the UFC? Wow. Gosh, everyone knows I'm pretty conservative in my predictions. I almost always lean to whenever there's questions like this, whether again, whether it's McGregor or someone else, I almost always lean towards like. I'm sure they'll work things out.

I think they're going to come back. But this situation is really is different than anything we've seen recently because we've had some great reporting. You know, let people know he is a free man. As far as we know in December, he just has to wait it out. He's not fighting again, like we said, probably up to nine, ten months, which is the entire year. He's in no rush to get back. He said, listen, I fought three times in three years. Do you really think inactivity is going to bother me that this is what I'm used to by now?

So I actually am now lean towards, I think he has to walk away. I think Chil Sonan, he got some weird things to say about UFC 270. But one really good point was that without a sort of a bird in hand, as it were, another bird in hand, that bird being the Tyson Fury boxing match or some big boxing match, I'm sure there have been talks. We know him and Tyson Fury. They've been saying a lot in social media, but that's not official. That's nothing official. So without that, it does make you wonder what is his play?

plan if he already has one and a half feet out the door. But regardless, I think whatever happens with Tyson Fury or other boxing opportunities for Francis, so much can change over the next year. I feel like the UFC is ready to move on from him. And I think he'll be ready to move on too. So I am leaning towards, yes, at least for the time being, this is the last time. This will be the end of Francis's first run with the UFC. Can he come back at some point?

Of course, you never know it's MMA. anything's possible. I can see him building up his brand outside the UFC in boxing and then coming back with even bigger name, more money, bigger fights, everyone wins. But for now, I will say, I think in 2023, Francis and Gandhi will not be a member of the UFC roster. What do you think, Eric?

Is this it? I mean, if it is, what a hell of a way to go up. But based on, you know, the point you made and you feel like the momentum kind of halted with this announcement of the surgery, I mean, do you think this is it? Like, this is the last time we're going to see, him fight in the UFC or do you think somehow as he's recovering, cooler heads will prevail

and he will somehow fight in the UFC again in 2023? I think the heart of this question, the root of this question is whether you believe Francis and Ghanu and Francis and Gano's team to be principled. Whether you believe Francis and Gano, who has said this is not a money conversation, this is a respect conversation, this is a structure of the agreement conversation, this is a UFC's control conversation. It's true to as word. At the moment, personally, I believe Francis Inganu. I think that he truly believes that it's not, it's not necessarily the sums of money in total, as he mentioned in an interview with Ariel, he says, he estimates that he's turned down roughly $7 million already. But the way he is

being treated, the tactics that the USC uses to coax fighters into contracts, and the way that they are handled and treated as they are under UFC's control on the roster. I believe Francis and Gano, and I think they're at an impasse. UFC is not going to allow Francis to do the things that I believe he wants to do, which is one-off fights, right? Like, I think there's an opportunity where Francis and Gano could say, I really want to fight John Jones, but I don't want to sign a long-term contract. I don't think UFC is ever going to do that because that weakens their position with other

fighters. I think Francis and Gano will say, hey, you know, I'll sign a contract for a these number of fights, but I'd also like to box and do other things. I don't think UFC is going to allow him to do that either. So I think they're at an impasse. I think the UFC's structure and the way that it handles their roster of fighters is at odds with the way that Francis and Gano wants to conduct the rest of his career. And I do not think that that gap is bridgible. I think there is an opportunity potentially if Francis and Ganu can go out and make some money elsewhere and raise his profile where he enters a territory where he's like a Brock Lesner or a

George St. Pierre type where maybe he could come back for a one-off fight and allow himself to do that. I don't think that that will be his next move. I'm pretty sure if I was a betting man and I'm placing a wager right now I would wager that Francis Inganu's next fight is not with the UFC because of that being at odds. And then we have the whole storyline between the UFC and CAA, where it seems like the CAA fighters are no longer under on the UFC roster, Francis Ingano being the most notable and perhaps only one left with the UFC, there is an impasse that we are at. And I do not expect that they will be able to bridge that gap unless the UFC changes its practices. And I don't believe that that's coming on the back of this. They have, they have rebuked these opportunities from more popular and known fighters than

Francis Inganu, Connor, it's not like the Mayweather fight all of a sudden came together the moment he wanted it. I'm sure Nate Diaz wants to box. I'm sure there's a lot of fighters under contract who want a box. So I would say that Francis and Ghanu is not the biggest name who's come to them with an alternate proposal. And I do not think the UFC is going to change their entire business practice based on this. So I would estimate that Francis Gondon does not fight his next

fight with the UFC. Man, this is so interesting. Like, not just because of Francis, but like some of the other names that like could be up at the end of the year. Conner's only doesn't have much left. Then we got Usman, like could he be done? Adasani doesn't have much left on his deal.

Like there's some pretty big names. Nate only has one fight left. Who knows how long. Poria wants to do this. So, like, by December, man, this could be real interesting. This is going to be a really fascinating year. But let's go to the other side because guess what? We finally heard from Dana White last night, four days after UFC 270.

And that's what we'll discuss next. But the point for round one goes to got to give it to the rook, New York Rick on the board. That was a tremendous round. Really making us think. And we really appreciate that. AK made us think as well. So get you and your crew to the big shows with Go Transit. Go connects to all the main concert venues like TD Coliseum in Hamilton and Scotia Bank Arena in Toronto.

And Go makes it affordable with special e-ticket fares. A one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel across the network on any weekend day or holiday for just $10. And a weekday group pass offers the same weekday travel flexibility from $30 for two people and up to $60 for five. Buy yours at go transit.com slash tickets. All right, let's get into Dana White because he became a big story on Saturday night because he did not wrap the belt around Francis's waist. And then he didn't show up to the press conference. No statement about it from him, nothing from the UFC.

The first thing we heard from Dana White was an interview with TMZ, which I mean, come on now. We've seen their MMA coverage and Nicole coverage would be giving it too much respect. They didn't even bring up the France thing at all. That's neither here nor there. But last night on a special Q&A, with the great Laura Sanko, Dana White took it upon himself to react to the negativity

and took a question about just Francis's wrestling and turn it into his time to say, you know what, here I go. And he said exactly this. I wasn't out there for the main event. I actually walked out of the arena right after the co-main event because there was stuff going on backstage that I was dealing with.

For anybody to think that I was showing any type of disrespect towards Francis, I saw Francis all week, you idiots. I shook his hand. I said hi to him. I was out there for the stare-downs, the whole thing. For anybody to think, there was some type of disrespect shown towards Francis. I wasn't out there from Michael Bisbing versus Rockhold either because I was dealing with some stuff.

I sprinted from the back. I didn't even have my jacket on. I only had my shirt on to go out there, put the belt on Bisbing, but I couldn't make it out there to put the bell on Francis. There's only been one time that I've walked out on a fight, and it made it very clear, showed up to the press conference and said exactly why I left. It was in Abu Dhabi with Anderson Silva. It was the Damia fight.

So that's the answer. I don't know if anybody asked that, but somebody wanted to. There you go. Now, Lori didn't follow up on that. And for anybody giving her crap for that, you're flinging that crap in the wrong direction because she shouldn't get any of it. She's an analyst. She works for the company.

It is not her job to grill Dana White and ask follow-up questions. It was her job to host the show. She was asked to host. It is not up to her to grill Dana White about the situation. So I just wanted to get that out of the way before I turned it over to New York, Rick. Nick, Rick, excuse me, Nick, how would you grade this response from Dana White after four days of silence on the matter for the most part? Yeah, I'm going to give it a B plus from the perspective of, you know, taking my own personal feelings aside and objectively grading it as a response. I'll say there's no matter what answer Dana White gave, there wasn't going to be an acceptance of it unless he said,

I was not there because I don't want to be there because the UFC is at odds with Francis Inganu and I am at odds with Francis Inganu. Short of that, there really wasn't a good answer. So him essentially saying, hey, I was cordial with Francis all week up until the fight and then I had to run to do something on fight night.

The only time I've ever left angrily was Anderson Silva versus Damien Maya. To me is as good as you're going to get when it comes to that level of reasoning and that level of response. But what I think is notable to point out here is since the time, the first time that Dana White said that Francis Inganu had an ego problem, since that moment and since the backlash around that and since being on good terms with Francis since then, Dina White has really

pointed his ire at Francis Inganu's management and Francis Inganu's management and Francis and Ganu being advised by people and certain things like that, deflecting away from the actual direct attacks on Francis and Ganon. And this was a continuation of that. I respect Francis, yada, yada. I think it's a really smart strategy. I think it works. I think it makes a lot of sense.

And it is never Dina White personally attacking Francis and Gano. It's him just being advised or being managed in a certain way. And I think that it's a smart tack to take. So this is a continuation of that. This is, you know, as good as it's going to get in my estimation, if short of saying I just personally don't or the USC as an organization is in a good standing with Francis and Gano and I didn't want to be there. Short of that.

it's about as good as you can come up with. AK, New York, Rick, gave it a B-plus. What are you grading it? You know, on the Prince of positivity, Mike. And I think I was one of the more level-headed commentators in the so-called MMA media. When afterwards, you know, everyone was like, oh, why didn't you show up? And yeah, there was some pretty obvious conclusions to draw. But I said, let's just hope, you know, nothing happened to him health-wise or his family or people he knows.

So it's good to hear as far as we know it was nothing like that. no sort of family emergency, which also gives us the freedom to starts bashing Dana White again, which is also enjoyable. So thankfully, again, everything's good and we can resume our normally scheduled programming. But it was such a poor excuse and to not elaborate on it, to not choose to elaborate on, I'd just say, because we have social media, we have the power of social media. All he had to do to sort of put aside suspicion, if you wanted to, it sounds like he's not trying that hard? I know he's kind of protesting

a little bit, calling people idiots who criticized him not being there. Where's the tweet? Where's the tweet the next day? Even if not the night of, you're right. Let's say it is something so chaotic happening backstage. He doesn't have time to tweet or he doesn't have time to tell a social media manager to tweet for him. The next day, you just put out a congrats to the champ, Francis

Sangano. You put it out on his Instagram. You put it on Twitter. This guy tweets about sandwiches. You know what I mean? It's like why would he not mention it? So that's the most telling thing. A tweet is not the end of the world. Don't you wrong. You know, again, people could say, oh, you're reading into it too much. He just didn't tweet about the main event result. But when it's a big heavyweight title fight, your first paper of the year, you think the president would have some reaction, whether he liked the fight or not, the right professional thing to do. And again, to sort of diffuse some of the drama before people start speculating, you just put out a tweet,

and grass to the champ and hashtag and still, you don't have to do it yourself. You have it, you have someone do it. This takes two seconds. So that is just a bad look for him. Again, whether we're talking, whether, you know, he's doing this because it's out of malice or incompetence, either way it's bad. I don't love it. And I thought it was darkly hilarious that he brought up the UFC 199 Bisp Bing Rockhold result, which is not an incident that he should be proud of. We don't need to rehash all that drama, why he wasn't, why he wasn't there. Obviously, it's a sore spot for one of our colleagues, and I don't want to go into all that again. But bringing that up does not help your case, Dana, and you need to either have better

excuses or just, and this is going to sound shocking, maybe be a little more forthcoming with your reasons here. But we all kind of know the real reasons now. You know, it's not 100% confirmed that it is this anti-Francis agenda. He certainly said some nice things about Francis in the interview with Lorisenko. But as far as we have on a fight night, I think it's pretty clear. Yeah, I think I think what happened backstage is like this year's version of Abu Dhabi What was in the bag?

Remember when there's a member of somebody's team who like jumped into the fighter hotel with this mystery bag? Like I want to know what happened backstage. Is Steveo do you lock himself in Dana's office with like a bear lathered in honey? Is he stapling his testicles to Dana White's Mall or something? Like is it a jackass thing? Like what is happening here? Like what is so important that he couldn't come out? So I'm curious to know.

and if I'm just, I'm just joking though, but I will say this. I said this in our work meeting Monday, and I told others who asked me throughout the day yesterday how like this whole thing would work. And I said that I would bet my house that we're going to get the Oliver Gagachy fight announcement on Wednesday and when, and I knew that was going to happen. And when he was at, if he was asked about Francis, he was going to put Francis over. But if an opportunity presented itself, like Eric said, had there been follow-ups, Markell Martin, Francis manager, he would have gotten that smoke.

but look, okay, I wasn't going to do this, but this popped into my head, so I'm going to present it in this way, okay? So I interviewed Trayshon Gore the other day, who's got to make his UFC debut next Saturday. And as soon as he got on Zoom, he looked at me and he said, what's up, Dana? Like, look to me and said, what's up Dana to me? And I had to laugh. I thought it was hilarious. So just for the sake of argument, I'm right here, bro. Let's just say you're interviewing Dana White slash me right now.

Use my shiny head for motivation. you're interviewing Dana. His PR team has come up to you and said, AK, you get one question. What are you asking them right now? Oh, my goodness. Gosh, does it have to be related to Engano? I feel like there's so many things I'd like to ask.

Why wouldn't it be? What are you going to eat for F at Friday on Friday? Like, you can't ask that. Listen, it would have to be, it would actually be something I want to answer it immediately. I mean, I mean, it's too vague, I think, to ask just how do you feel about the champion? I mean, you're not going to get a good answer if you ask them like that. You really have to be pointed.

So I would ask him something of the effect of six months from now, what does it take for you to put your foot down and either A, just strip Francis of the title and move on without him? You know he's not fighting because of the injury and other reasons. Maybe if you even hadn't gotten the surgery, he might still be holding out. We don't know. So what does it take for A, one, strip him with the title? Or B, you just release him from his contract. What will it take for you to have a mutually beneficial situation where that could happen? So that's where I'd go for.

I wouldn't say end of the year. I'd say within these six months, is it possible? You and Francis can work something out, and he's just allowed to walk. That's it. And I'd say if you had to say yes or no right now, what would the answer be? And I'd love to hear if he was painted into corn like that and had to give an answer, which, as we know with him, he never has to give a straight answer because he's Dana White. That's where I'd go with it.

Rick, what's your question? If you are given the almighty golden microphone and you can only ask Dana one question to just figure out what he's thinking about this whole situation, what would you ask him? Yeah, I think Alex raised a good question, but the problem is he's not going to answer that. That is not a question that he's going to answer. The only question I believe that is outstanding that he would be forced to answer is the one we kind of alluded to already, which is you said you had a lot of things going on in the back. What were those things? That is the only question that I think will be answered right now.

You can ask Dana White, do you think Francis Ngano will be your champion in a year? You can ask Dana White, do you want to be in business with Francis Ingano? You can ask you in a way, hey, would you have preferred if Cyril gone won the fight on Saturday night? There are many, many ways to dodge that. If you are asking somebody who just told you that they had a lot of things going on in the back, if you are asking them what those things are, there's not much of a dodge. There's either, I'll tell you what those things were, and you can kind of see if somebody's lying based on that, or I'm not going to tell you, and therefore you're allowed to let your mind wander and roam where you want to.

it to be, but you will now have confirmation that that was blatantly an excuse and not actually a legitimate question. So that is the only one that I feel would have any value in asking him. Everything else, I feel like he's, he's able to duck, dodge, or quite frankly, like, I think he would be in business with Francis. I think he would want him as his champion. I think all those things are true. And I think he's imagining or could envision a world where Francis Inganu is the one who has to acquiesce to acquiesce to his demands and the UFC's demands. So I think you're not going to be able to paint them into a corner with anything but please clarify what those things that you had going on were. You could talk about this whole situation for another hour, but I do want to end with this

question. With Francis's surgery, Eric, where does the UFC go at this division? Because they won't strip Francis because then he's out of the contract and he's a free agent, or maybe they will and they'll just cut ties right then and there. They'll certainly do an interim title fight. So one, what do you think that fight will be? and two, will John Jones be one of those fighters to step in that octagon when that next interim title fight actually goes down?

Stipe Miochich versus John Jones for the UFC's interim heavyweight championship this summer coming to you. John Jones wins the belt and now Francis Inganu has a tough decision to make. He can make a lot of money with the UFC potentially facing John Jones, but he's going to have to compromise. He's going to have to do the things that he said. he was fighting against the long-term contracts, being locked in, being disrespected. All those things are going to remain true.

He may have a higher paycheck, but all those things that he's been railing against the UFC for are going to be the things that he's now faced with. Was he true to what he was saying? Is it just a financial situation or was he fighting for something more? Was he fighting for freedom and personal happiness? That interim title fight that is potentially won by John Jones, in my estimation, it would be, is going to give him a very, very, very, very, very, difficult decision to make. Ultimately, I think he's a man of his word. I think he will

be somebody who's willing to walk away from the structure that the UFC provides to the unknown and additional opportunities. But it is not going to be easy if that fight is made and John Jones emerges victorious. Ak, you agree? I think we're going a different direction. Maybe John Jones can't come to terms of the UFC and we go another route just to get this division moving forward somehow. Well, I'll take it a step further. We keep saying inter- And this is kind of what I was alluding to before when I said what I would ask, Stena White. I think this, this, whatever in the next heavyweight is going to be, we're talking undisputed. I don't know whether it's because the UFC just decides to strip him.

And before anyone asks, like, oh, they can't strip him. Like he, you know, he's within a year of defending. It's like people, belts are props. We say this all the time. Belts are props. The UFC can do literally whatever it wants. They can create another belt and not call interim. They have complete control of their belts.

There's sensibly, you know, they would, they would usually use the rule. of like, oh, so-and-so hasn't fought in a year, and so we've decided to. But in this case, they could use the language of, well, they've publicly said, they've given us a nine to ten months table for him competing again, plus the time it takes to train and book a fight again. It could be about a year. We've decided to strip another time. Or, or, and this is a little more out there, I would love to see Francis, and I know people are saying this is such an important part of him becoming a phrasian and going into boxing with us around his waist. I would love to see him treat the belt like a prop and just say, I vacate the title.

I want you to know I do not want to be tied with the UFC anymore. Everyone knows I'm the heavyweight champion. I do not need this piece of gold, this Dana White piece of gold to confirm that. I do not want to hold back the division anymore either. Take this thing off of me whenever they, if they want to move on without me, they can move on without me. Now, would Francis go that far? I don't know. But I think that would be such an aggressive move, especially if the first scenario,

presented was possible that he kind of was reading the tea leaves like yeah they're going to book a fight with john jones and whoever uh and steep bay or cidal gone whoever and they're going to strip me then you do you do the i'm not breaking up with you you're not bringing up with you i'm bringing up with you you do that you go on the attack so sorry guys that was kind of a long winned way of saying i think that there will be a title fight uh and it won't be interim i think undisputed i think i think whether through vacation or uh stripping uh francis won't be the uh won't be the UFC heavyweight champion much longer. Ben, I wonder, actually, if he does vacate, is he done?

Like, can he just make himself a free agent? Can he just vacate the title himself and do whatever? Like, that just seems weird. I have to imagine not. And I also point out, like, if he's stripped, then he's out of the champions clause and a free agent, I don't imagine that UFC would be inclined to give him that opportunity ahead of the expected date. So that would be bold.

I would definitely be interested. if that was what would happen. That'd be such a gangster move right there. I do want to say, and I know this has been the Francis show. Shout out to Cyril Gunn. What that guy has done in his short professional MMA career is absolutely incredible. He'll be back. He will fight for that title again without question.

And I know we talked about it earlier, but the way he's handled the loss, absolutely fantastic. So we'll move on to the other big story coming out of UFC 270, because we could talk about this for two more hours. but the point for round two goes to after that round, the gangster of positivity. Alexander K. Lee putting himself in Branson Ganoos shoes for a bold move. Here, here's your title, and then he drops it right at Dana's feet.

What a move that would be. But co-main event, let's go to the co-main event because excellent fight is expected. Davis and Figurato defeats Brandon Moreno, unanimous decision, three rounds to two in all three cards. Figu retains, or Figgie regains, excuse me, regains the time. title. Tremendous fight. Could have gone either way, but the title has changed hands once again. So, AK, let's begin with you. It's usually a very tough sell, as you know, for immediate rematches. We got one after the draw that had to happen, obviously. Moreno runs Figuero over in the rematch, gets a finish. UFC goes back to it again. Initial reaction is kind of lukewarm, but the closer we got

to the fight, the closer we got to Saturday, the more people got excited about the fight. these guys put on another pretty classic battle and now we're talking about maybe doing this fight again for the fourth consecutive time. Should they do this, AK, should they just fire this one right back up and go four for four? Look, like I said on our podcast, just a few days ago on to the next one,

that if it were up to me making the matchmaking, I would like to see a little variety as great as that fight, as really all their fights have been. Even the second fight, it was more one-sided from Moreno, but it was a hell of a performance and still very dramatic in its own way, maybe not as much to the other two fights. But I've said, I kind of want to see, you know, the Ascarov-Car-Franz winner get put into the mix.

I want to see what's going on with Pantosia. I want to see him get into the mix again. And, I mean, I know people aren't chomping at the bit for like either of those got, any of those three names I mentioned to necessarily get the next title shot. Omanel Cops, another name you could throw in their very hot name after his 2021 campaign. But I still feel like there's something to be said about fresh challengers. But going with the exact phrasing of this question, are people ready and should this fight be made? I have no issue with it.

Were it announced this week, you know, to obscure some more of this Angano drama, were it announced this week that they just said, yep, both guys have at least verbally agreed. This is the plan. They have a tentative date. I'd be all in. I would not be going on Twitter going like, oh, my gosh, all these guys again, which was kind of the reaction to the second fight more understandably because it was so one-sided. I'm sorry, excuse me, the third fight, which is understandable because.

the rematch was so clearly a win for Marino. But look, anytime you're talking about the two guys who are, I think, the number one and number two fly weights in the world, if you want to still make a case for it, Demet Joseph Johnson, or Adrienne Marais because he beat Johnson,

or Henry Sehudo, because he's out there. Everyone's like, oh, Henry Suhudo should still be considered because if he came back, he could beat either guy. I don't know. If you want to throw that out there,

that's fine. But I don't think you can say indisputably that these guys are not the two of the three, four best in the world. And they've shown it in all their fights. The fights have just been, I mean, that was a fight of the year, candy. We're in January, and we're having to tell people,

please do not forget this one when award season comes around in 11 months from now. It was just so good. And again, like I said, it's unfortunate that they're not going to Brazil. That would have it such an easy, like, ah, you've got to have that tetralogy in Brazil. I mean, so easy to sell. But wherever the fight ends up happening now, again, should it be booked? I think it's great. I think the story is there.

I think there's personally. I think there's a lot of animosity. I think the Sehudo bit working with Figurato. added a lot, Figuredo kind of getting this assistance from Coach Eric and other people with this kind of new, new persona of some of his sound bites. I think that stuff was great. I think it was great.

People can kind of joke about how phony it was. But overall, I think it added a lot of intrigue. And then, of course, him winning was the most important part of possibly generating interest in a fourth fight. So seeing four guys, excuse me, seeing two guys fight four times in a row in the UFC sounds absurd, but I don't know when we're getting an opportunity to do this again, and I don't see why you can. You shouldn't not do it just because it hasn't been done before,

and just because it sounds odd to do it. They're the two best. We still don't know definitively who is the number one guy in the UFC, 125 pounds, run it back again, either right away or if you want to try and mix some other guys, fine, but it should happen again, hopefully sometime this year. Eric, this is one of those questions where you probably would have loved to have gone first because I think AK is pulling at the old heartstrings right now because there's three things that anytime you're on the MMA hour doing something, Darryl, one of these three things come up.

The email, Rhonda Rousey, comeback fighter of the year, and you advocating for the best guys to fight the best guys, even if they fight five thousand times. So I assume you agree with AK and let's just run this thing back for the fourth time. Let me start with a question, Mike. to your knowledge, are we in the Matrix? I don't think so. Are we in one of the multiverses from the Spider-Man movie? Because if we're not, if we're not, and we're living in reality,

and we're in the reality that we've seen, the UFC's meritocracy, the idea that people earn title shots is dead and has been dead for a long, long, long, long time. So with all due respect to Kai Kaira France and Ascarov, there is not a universe that we are living in where they deserve to fight above running this back a fourth time. These two, and again, with all due respect, these two saved the flyweight division. There might not be a division for them to fight for the title in if these two hadn't put on the trilogy that they just put on. This division might have been folded six months ago. So God bless Davis and Figuero and Brandon Moreno.

Let them run this back six times, seven times, eight times, as many times as they need to decide that this series of fights is over. And not until then will somebody else get another crack. And I stand by that until the end of time. These are the two best. And they have saved what was a division that was on the brink of failure for a long time. So I get it. You want the title shot.

You've worked your whole career for it. And you fly weights deserve it. But you're going to have to wait until these two decide that they're done. And I will not hear an argument otherwise. There you go. Now, I mean, see, we talk about interim titles and them not having meaning, but you could just throw an interim title in there somewhere. If you think there's a whole bunch of guys stacked behind,

we could do an interim title, which is basically a number one contender fight, get these guys more money, get them some spotlight. They can still fight for a belt and let Figgi and Moreno just go until one of them retires. Like, I'm fine with that. I'm totally fine with that. But I want to just sprinkle real quick on the rest of the card. New York, Rick, who's your 10th Player Award winner for UFC 270? Who's the sort of forgotten hero of the event?

Because oftentimes these storylines come out. We often forget about some of the things that happen. And it was a pretty darn good card. It was a pretty good card from top to bottom. Who's sort of your 10th Player Award winner for UFC 270? Yeah, it's hard because of how much circumstance and stakes were around the Comain and the main. But I'm going to have to say the most, the one who made the mark, the one who was most memorable was Vanessa Demopoulos, jumping into Joe Rogan's arms. To come back, everything about that from start to finish was memorable.

So that's got to be the performance that's going to stand the test of time and be referenced back outside of what happened in the main and commain. And so Vanessa is going to be my choice. AK, you already heard one air horn for Eric's answer. And I think if you say a specific answer right now, you might get your own air horn. So choose wisely. Who's your 10th player or winner? Mike, I don't know what you're suggesting. I would never do that.

You know I'm a fan of so much MMA outside of the UFC, specifically Japan. I think the rise in promotion is just fantastic. And there's just some really great talents coming from there. I think, oh, Victor Henry. I believe it was USB and Risen, I think, and he fought for, and I believe he did, he made his U.S. debut finally. This is at the top of my head. I wasn't like thinking.

I just, not that you mention it, you know, a great, the featured prelim on ESPN ESPN Plus, so a lot of eyeballs were on this fight. Some hype behind him. Again, this is a guy who probably could have been the UFC quite a while ago. He's doing a lot of great work over in Risen, has been fighting quality competition. And they throw him right in there with someone I consider to be a top 20 fighter at 135 pounds, how many Barcellos? So by no means, a show came.

fight for Victor Henry. If anything, he kind of is maybe being brought into, you know, get, how many a win. But it was an amazing fight. It would have been a fight of the night candidate if it wasn't for the main event, of course, which was fantastic and well deserved. But yeah, Victor Hendr's so great was as advertised. Okay, now we've overdone it. A super exciting striker. And hopefully, hopefully going forward, again, this was kind of late notice. So, you know, you didn't get to do a lot of, you know, didn't get to do a lot of pre-fight stuff. But hopefully we'll get to see more about him, you know, just outside of the cage. Because I know some amazing pieces have been done on him.

I think people go on YouTube and, you know, look up Victor Henry, MMA fighting. You might see a great video about, so I've heard again. I don't want to bring up anything specific. And I just want people to know. I just hope that whoever's listening and watch this remembers this, this pick, whether it be, you know, the next time Victor Henry fights or say in a few, in a little bit. But by the end of this episode, that's, you know, that's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying.

I feel like I'm watching Pee Wee's Playhouse right now. Every time you say Victor Henry, the air horns go off. It's like the secret word. Yes. Actually, and oddly enough, there's interviews with both of those fighters on We Got Next. You could check that out right now on the MA podcasting, M.A. podcasting Network. The Demopolis video interview is up.

There is, you will see the Victor Henry video interview sooner rather than later as well. So the best episode ever. All right, we got to move on. The point for round three goes to it goes to AK. I mean, 400 air horns. He gets it. And I planted a seed. I planted a seed, by the way.

That's going to pay off later. Well, surprises are coming. But let's move on to round number four. No UFC this weekend. But we got a couple of interesting events. Caposa will argue that there's like 100 great events, but there's two we're going to, we're going to spotlight here because we have Bellator's first event of the year.

2.73 in Phoenix got Ryan Bader versus Valentin Bldowski. I would rather see Ryan Bader play Fador and basketball for being honest, but I'll take them, I'll take Bader Moldovsky for the heavyweight title. Pretty solid card from top to bottom. Of course, Big Tuna is back and that should be the main events, but that's neither here nor there. We'll also have the United States debut of Eagle FC. That goes down tomorrow. a promotion headed up by Habib Namauga-Madoff, Tyrone Spong, Sergey Haratanov, the main event for that one.

We get the return to Rashad Evans. There you go, some interesting storyline. So, Eric, let me ask you, if you can only watch one of these events, which one are you picking? If I could only watch one, it's going to be Eagle FC. It's going to be Eagle FC for the simple reason that I am a fan of the striking arts. I, in another life worked for Glory Kickboxing, and Tyrone Spong and Sergey Haratanov are two of the very best in that field, in that realm. I like that fight. I want to see the big boys throw down with the little gloves. And just on the odd chance that we get some valuable screen time from Habib Narmaga Madov.

I think Habib is the most notable person who's potentially going to be shown on our television screens this weekend. And I would love to see him again, hear what he has to say. maybe he gets interviewed, maybe he's just high-fiving people, whatever it is, I'm down for it. So Eagle FC is going to have my attention. And then obviously you've even got the return of Rashad Evans. I'm interested to see how it goes for him. So it's going to be Eagle FC for me.

AK, what say you? You can only watch one. You can't find out the highlights from the other for a couple of days. Which one are you going with? That is, you mean, I can't follow the excellent coverage on MMAfighting.com. Okay. Well, I also, that is such a trump card for Eagle FC to be able to play with every event. Because I think I, I mean, this is actually their 44th event.

They've held, this will be their first U.S. show, excuse me. And I believe he has regularly popped up at events. So surely he will show his face at this event. So that is a reason to tune in. But I'm going to lean a little bit towards Bellator. I do quite enjoy Bellator. I like Eagle FC too. And I did love the trailer, by the way.

I'll say for anyone who didn't see the trailer with Karatanov and that, Peron Spong for Eagle FC. It was very like KSW-esque, this really like over-the-top cinematic thing, and I thought it was quite wonderful. So if there's more of that kind of production on Eagle FC, they're going to be tough to beat. But Bell Tor, I think they put together a very strong card.

It's not a sexy card. I get it. It's not a sexy card. It's not like a sexy is like a US debut. Rashad Evans coming back. That's fine. But I think it's a very high quality heavyweight fight with real implications for the division.

I think a lot of us at MAFINE.com, the global rankings, We have Valentin Moldafsky actually pretty high. I can't remember where he actually landed, but some of us have him in our top 10, very strong heavyweight. But Ryan Bader also has done a lot of great work in heavyweight, and he told our own Damon Martin, is planning to stay there. So that to me is very encouraging.

It always, whenever a fighters bounce between divisions, I never think that's always the best thing for them. I think if you can focus on one thing. And if he was able to beat Moldovsky, that's a huge statement. I know Moldovsky is not a household name at heavyweight, but he is really good. He's undefeated. That would be a big way for Bader to kick off the second sort of the,

or I should say maybe the last leg of his M.A. career if he's able to get a convincing win against Bludovsky. So fingers crossed, not a heavyweight snooze fest, because I know the Eagle FC main event will certainly be more, possibly more chaotic and fun, but I hope we get a good fight at Bell Tor as well. And I think they built out the card really well. I think Islam Mamadav is a guy they want to push.

So Yuton there with Bendo. Henry Kraus is always fun. Sabahomasi is fighting that he's always exciting. Enrique Brazola. making his, his Bellator debut. I actually had not, I'd forgotten that he had signed a Belator, and he'll be fighting Deering Caldwell. So they put on a lot of veteran names,

if people want to look at the card themselves, good mixture, veteran names, up-and-comers, homegrown Bellator guys, like, what his name just came in? Lucas Brennan, excuse me, home-grown Bellator guy, and, of course, opening with someone who should be maybe on the main card,

everyone's favorite vials and station, Big Tuna, Ben Parrish. So that really big Tuna, I should have just mentioned him at the beginning. That probably would have settled the argument. Yeah, you would have won the game outright if you just mentioned that right up the bat. Again, all that other stuff, isn't necessarily. But, I mean, you're playing too much to Casey, not playing too much to the judge who actually awards these regulation points.

So I'm sorry. You know what? I'll ask one more question. I'll give you a chance to save face, AK. Low key bangor storyline of the weekend. What's standing out to you? Could be from Ballotaur. Could be from Eagle FC.

Could be something else. What's the low key storyline? Fight, fighter, storyline, what you got? Gosh, look, well, man, I wish I hadn't run down the belt or a car now because, again, I would have gone with some. I would have gone with Mamadov. I know, I think his last fight, he won. I think people didn't love it.

Oh, he did win, right? I should probably know this. Yeah, that was the brand-famous fight that he actually loved. Yes, yes, that right is very close. I think this is a very good chance for him to bounce back. Again, he has one of those sort of colossy records, 21 and 1, which I think is easy to sell, but it's, you know, not, if you don't know who he beat and who he fought, and the Brent Primus fight was the only fight you saw,

you probably had a little bit of what's the big deal with this guy, I think. So I really like that belt or put him back in there with a proven name. Again, Benson Henderson, I get it. He's not going to rank in anyone's, you know, maybe top 20 anymore. But he's a tough out. He's always a tough out. He's not a guy there that people just walk over. So this for me is their chance to really build Mamma dog back up, excuse me, back up,

and keep him as a guy who I think they see as a future lightweight champion. And so, I mean, it is a co-main event. I know maybe not as much of a low-key banger or storyline as people would think. But I think both these cars this weekend kind of qualify as low-key, if that makes sense. So I'll go with the potential redemption of Mamadov after that, the premise fight. Oddly enough, Benson Henderson told me when I spoke with him yesterday, that he reached out to Bellator and said, hey, my career's winding down. What do I need to do to get to a title shot quickly?

And Scott Coker called him up. Benson asked him that. He said, fight is on Mamadoff. So Ben Henderson feels that if he wins on Saturday, his next fight will be for the belt. How about that? So the stakes are very high here for one Benson Henderson. So what is your low-key storyline banger there, New York, Rick?

That was, I have to give credit to Alex. What an answer. Woefully wrong, but tremendous effort given there. Thank you. Thank you, Rick. Thank you. The story of the weekend is. actually going to happen tomorrow and then carry through. And that's going to be Jake Paul's rap music video.

There's not going to be a more impactual. There's not going to be a more scene. There's not going to be a more viral moment than when Jake Paul Presses published on that bad boy throughout the weekend. And it will color the coverage of the weekend and be the most discussed thing this weekend heading into next week. And maybe beyond, who knows, maybe it'll become a legendary track that lives in the annals of music history.

So Jake Paul, Dana White, diss coming to you Friday is going to be the story. Flag on the flag. Flag on the flag. We're just going outside the events. Oh, that is. Hey, he listened. I said, could be Bellator, could be Eagle FC, could be something else. I believe those are the words I said.

I ignored this something else. I always forget this something else. I mean, do we even need a drum roll here? We'll do it, you know, let's go with the flow of the show. The point for round four goes to Alexander K. Lee's opponent, New York, Rick. Yay. By the way, I'm sorry, I see a comment people saying it'll be on, I do not, it'll be on Eagle FC on FlightPass. I don't think it's on FightPass, right?

It's on Eaglefc.com, if I'm not mistaken, right? I think it's on FLFLX or something. Yeah, yeah, that's their service they're tied to. But I think you can register, it's free, I think register through Eagle FC. dot com. I've heard the stream quality is pretty good. That's what Damon told me.

But it might be a little different for the actual event. It could be a lot of traffic. But either way, if people want to know, it is not on Fight Pass. I do not believe it's on Fight Pass. I don't know if I think I saw it on thereafter. Maybe I add it to the archives,

but live Eaglefc.com. And I think it's pretty clear. I checked it on myself. You can't miss it. Yeah, which is, yeah, good for them. Okay. So it's two to two. You know what that means?

It's time for the knock around. We'll ask one question, probably about a topic we discussed already. And we'll dive into a little bit more. And each participant will have one minute to give their response and then we will turn it over to the judge, the jury, the executive. Nope, that is not true. That is not true because we have a very special guest judge. No. And it's only fair. It's only fair considering how this matchup was put together in the first place. There's a third man in play. And even though he doesn't call himself this,

he is in the books. His name is on the plaque in the offices of the BTL Championship Committee. The reigning, defending, undisputed BTL champion, Mr. Jed Michoud. Oh. There he is. Oh. Okay. Oh, my favorite person. My favorite person.

What? What did I say? What were you saying at the beginning of the show about competing against me? Nothing. I didn't say anything. Why did I spend all this time watering up casing? Why did I spend all this time butter up Casey? I don't care about Victor Henry.

I don't care about Victor Henry. I don't care about Victor Henry. That was all BS. I can say it now. It doesn't matter. He's not doing the judging. I don't care. I don't care what he thinks.

So, AK, we had a meeting with the BTL Championship Committee last night. And they felt there was only fair because you felt so wronged by all of this that you get the champions prerogative for this final question. You get to decide whether or not you'd like to go first or pass it on over. You know what I want. Just give it to me. Okay. All right. So we kind of touched on this.

You touched on it earlier in the show. Jed, not Jed, New York Rick touched on a little bit on the last question. But we're going to dive into this because I didn't know where I was going to go at this. There's a number of ways I could have gone. Jeremy Stevens parting ways with the UFC was a big story, but it's not really that surprising for being honest. I was going to go with the Florida Athletic Commission screwing the pooch with the whole Melvin Galard

fight against Yuli Diaz and Knucklemania, but who knew that Florida had a soul when it came to fighter safety? So we're just going to go this route because Aaron Bronseter and Ariel Hawani had a little debate about this whole thing. So I figured what better place to settle it than right here in the BTL virtual arena.

So Jake Paul teased an announcement this past weekend that came to fruition this week. he and a partner made an investment an endeavor stock, the parent company of the UFC, and he is doing this to change fighter pay from within.

So there's no details on how much was invested or what he is actually trying to prove with this entire thing. So we're going to try and crawl inside the head of Jake Paul here, AK. What does this all mean? What are we going to try? What is he trying to do?

What does this investment mean? What is he trying to prove? One minute on the clock. Your time is. starts now? I think it's pretty clear that it's a little more than people think it is and a little less than people think it is. Certainly the initial thought of, oh my gosh, he is, he is, he is, he is investing in it. This is going to give him some sort of decision-making power. I think that was shot down pretty quickly. I think people realize what a massive company this is, what a small percentage this

investment will be whenever it is finalized. And it, when it's done, we're not going to wake up in the more and he's like, well, now Jake Paul can make decisions about fighter pay. This is, if this is genuine, if him and his team are really, you know, working with this other group to try and make change, this is going to take a long time. And we, you don't, you won't see the, the effects of it for like, I want to say a year, which is like optimistic, probably years plural is probably the answer. So in the short term, it's just something that's, you know, it makes Jake Paul rich here. It gives him publicity.

It gives him another bullet to fire, maybe another bar in this track that's coming out tomorrow. but I don't think it's anything substantial. I think it's a great move, and it could lead to something meaningful in the future, but right now, a grain of salt here, and let's just look at it as a Jake Paul beneficial maneuver. Okay. We turn it on over to New York, Rick, with his final minute of a participation on this program,

at least for this show, maybe he goes on to bigger and better things. But you know the question? Jake Paul, buying Endeavor stock thinks he's going to change the way we look at fighter pay forever and ever with this move. Do you agree with him? Was he trying to actually prove this whole thing? Your one minute starts now. Yeah, the fact that AK just spent an actual minute talking about whether Jake Paul buying stock was going to impact anything is comical. Of course, it's not. It was another needle in the side of Dana White, and it will continue to be a needle in the side of Dana White as Jake Paul has continued to be.

I think it's worth pointing out that Jake Paul is doing this in concert with Nikisa, his manager, former UFC executive. And they are smartly playing this and just continuing to get attention and continuing to get attention and continuing to get attention. Their impact, or Jake's impact, if we're going to pin it to him, is only going to be to continue to aggravate Dana White, to the point that maybe one day there will be an offer for Jake Paul to fight in the UFC. That is where I think this is all heading.

That is what I think the end goal is. And I think that ultimately he might be able to pull it off. But no, absolutely. meaningless in if you're looking at it in a vacuum and only matters in the context of another shot across the bow for Jake Paul and the Kese. All right. There we go. Jed Mishu coming on the show.

A little part-time work here is the champion. But he's got a very big decision. There's a lot of weight on this decision. Okay? We got New York, Rick. A.K. Lee. Big time grudge match. I feel like the respect has grown between these two since we began the show over the

last hour in six minutes or so. So now we turn on over to Jed Mishu. Jed? Who gets it done? Is it A.K. Lee? A man you work on so many projects with? Or New York, Rick, a man who you could be creating many more projects in the future with, who got it done?

I've also known Ricky longer. Known Rick for much longer than AK. And we share the homeless pirate look right now. So big, you know, another check in the box for him. I just want to say, first, it's an honor to be here. Thanks, Mike. I really appreciate it. Second, well fought between both of you gentlemen, watch the whole show.

You know, I feel often, it's a bit of chicanery that gets us to an even, you know, two, two heading into the last round. But not this time. I thought it was well contested. I got to say, though, I didn't love either final answer. I thought you both made some points that were solid, aka I love your positivity. I think it is naive, but I love the positivity. And Ricky, I connect with your cynicism, but I'd like to live in a more hopeful universe, you know.

I'd like to live in one of those alternate realities or whatever it is from Spider-Man. At the end of the day, where we're going to have to go with drum roll, please. The man who lives in reality. New York, Rick. Man, he gets it done. I can't stop hearing you call him Ricky now, though.

I feel like Lou Brown, the Cleveland Indians from Major League fame. Ricky. We're like that. That's allowed. That's allowed. We're like that. So what do you call Jed? Jetty, of course.

Oh, Jetty, well. Obviously. New York Rick comes on the show, first appearance and gets a victory. Unbelievable. You don't get money or a gold shiny belt or a trophy or anything, but you do get 30 seconds to talk about whatever it is you want to talk about, good, bad, and different about the sport of mixed martial arts, sir. Yeah, I want to take this 30 seconds to dedicate it to Alexander Cayley.

Give him a tough out on voting on the championship round. Gracious opponent heading into this. Relentless worker, tremendous nice guy. as I said on Twitter, it was going to break my heart to have to bury him in the way that I did today. And it did. But I love this man unequivocally. I think he's an awesome contributor to M.A. fighting on one of the, he does everything that you could ask of anybody. An awesome teammate, an awesome friend.

And yeah, shout out to A.K. Lee. That's how I'm spending this time. I mean, what a moment. Just one of the all-time great moments on the show. What do you want to say? A worthy winner. I mean, New York, Rick, it was an honor to go against you. I'm so glad you got to be in between the links.

You got to give the people what they want. Casey, don't be afraid to throw up that number there. I know that's not my old record. Go ahead. You can throw that right up there any time now. Yeah, an honored, honor. It's just great and so happy to work to work with Rick and to get to go against them. And to have the most honorable Jedmishu.

I wish I had known about the switcheroo. I would have sprinkled in references to Fight Circus and Charles Crazy Horse Bennett and how great his rankings are and so much better than the rest of us. So I was a little bit screwed. I was a little bit screwed. My brown nosing was not rewarded.

And I feel a little bit bad about that. But there you go. There's the 5 and 14, which I wear proudly. So thank you for having me on, Mike. You know, I mean, I mean, honestly, that would have all helped. But really, you just can't break the K-Faig. Like, you just need to do.

die on Victor Henry Hill. And as soon as you didn't, really put you behind. Oh, you? Yeah. I cracked. I cracked too early. I cracked too early.

I cracked. Also, I also really want to see Ricky take on, on Connor now, because that feels like the next. Yes. Yes. Unless, of course, you know, the true champion wants to come back

and finally face me. I know that she's been very, Phoenix has been very occupied with stuff. But if that's up next and I'm in, but otherwise, give me Ricky versus Connor all day. I'll take it in all numbers. I appreciate the endorsement. I will say the fact that you don't consider yourself the true champion is telling. That's interesting.

Maybe, you know, maybe I'm going to make a run at the point. Let's see what happens. Maybe I'm coming for that title. Maybe I want a piece of the action. Yes. I mean, you can't get the title for me yet because I haven't beat Phoenix. I've gone up against her, I think, three times, and I've gotten that work each time. So until I beat her, look, I've said it before, I'll say it again.

I'm not Al Jermaine Sterling. I say I'm not the champion. I'm going to keep living that line until I beat her. So you can come at me, but you will get the fake belt that the UFC is about to give John Jones versus Steepa while they try and sit on Francis for the next year. That's the quality of a belt you will give if you come beat me. And you know what? It'll be the only one that's in action.

It'll be the only one being defended. And that will make it the real belt in reality. I don't know if you guys saw it. Jose Young's. We're watching this Jose Young story unfold. First, he says, Jed only eats red skittles. And then he called out New York, Rick. He's the one who calls him out.

Pull that one up. It's Jose versus Eric next week. Higher ranked fighter gets top billing. How about that? I don't want to. compare myself to Jake Paul, but I feel like I'm disrupting this whole thing and everybody wants a piece and you know what?

I'm ready to give it out. And Jose is washed like proud of Woodley so that actually would work really well. Well, ladies, gentlemen, I know. Six rounds. I'm saying. I will say, let me just add that. You're giving you a cliffhanging. Let me just add that Jake Paul

and New York Rick are both undefeated. Find out who New York Rick is going to face next week. right here on Between the Links. What an episode it was, a rivalry, a grudge has been settled, and it ended in respect. And that's all the show, it's all we ask for from this program. So thank you all for watching.

Thank you all for listening. For A.K., for New York Rick, for a special guest judge, Jedbushu, for E. Casey Liden on the ones and twos. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn takes you home. Thank you for watching Between the League. See you next week. Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links and MMA Fighting Production

on the Vox Media Network. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.