MMA Fighting - BTL | Glover Teixeira vs. Jiri Prochazka, Weili vs. Jedrzejczyk 2, UFC 275, More

Episode Date: June 10, 2022

Glover Teixeira will defend his UFC light heavyweight title for the first time against Jiri Prochazka in the main event of Saturday’s UFC 275 card in Singapore. While the matchup is fascinating, is there an argument to be made that both fighters are being undervalued and overlooked? This week on Between the Links, the panel will discuss the 205-pound title fight and where both guys could go based on the result. In addition, topics will include whether or not Taila Santos would pull off the biggest upset in UFC history with a win over Valentina Shevchenko, the highly anticipated rematch between Zhang Weili and Joanna Jedrzejczyk, and who the shift to a three round fight favors more, the low-key banger of the event, a quick recap of UFC Vegas 56, and much more. Host Mike Heck moderates the discussion between MMA Fighting’s Jed Meshew and UFC lightweight Joe Solecki. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Joe Solecki: @JoeSolecki Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-by journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Between the links. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new. edition of Between the Links here on M.M.A. Fighting, as you can see, we're broadcasting live here from inside the TD Garden from, I don't know, a few years ago. Oh, now we're in Fenway Park. Oh, my gosh. This is unbelievable. We're trying out some new things, and this is what's happening.

Now we're going to be bouncing around all of the rolling hills and sprawling landscapes of New England, apparently, and maybe other parts of the world as well. But bear with us as we try this new production. I am in the new studio 4.0 right now and it is about a million degrees in here. So if I sweat a little bit, just bear with it, just live with it. We all sweat. So that's it. But I hope you're all having a wonderful week. We are on the eve of the eve of UFC 27, which goes down Saturday night in Singapore. A lot of storylines on the main card. We'll spend a majority of our time talking about that event. But this will be more of a roundtable discussion. We're going to let our hair down a little bit.

The other two guys, that is, those days are way far behind me. I've accepted that, but enough about my follicle challenges. Let's talk about fist fighting. Let's talk about title fights. Let's talk about rematches and more. Let us welcome in the esteemed panel.

First, our old friend, I got to return the favor and join his No Betts Bard Show earlier this week, and I probably need to do that 45 more times to actually return the favor. The man with the fiery takes, Mr. Doe Gray area himself,

Jed Bishu. Hello, Jed. What an incredible intro. You covered so many bases. Don't worry about sweating. You're going to other spots in New England. What a just well done. He is de resistance from you, sir.

Clap, clap. Well, glad to have you here. Joining us for the first time on the panel, I'm excited about this. One of the nicest people I've had this pleasure of speaking with in this sport. He's coming off of a hard-fought victory over Alex De Silva at UFC Vegas 56 this past Saturday.

Let us welcome UFC lightweight contender, Mr. Joe Selecki. Joe, welcome to the show, my man. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm watching the count in the corner of people tuning in. I'm like things I don't do get this many views except fighting. So I'm excited to go. This is going to be fun. Well, yes, let's get into this thing.

I do want to start with this past Saturday, and I want to hit on a couple of topics, a couple of the big storylines that came out of UFC Vegas 56. Yes, it was a great win for Alexander Volkov against Jarzini Rosenstrike in the made event. The ending of that fight will kind of tie into the second storyline that sticks around in my Boston-born brain, but I want to begin with the co-made event

and Mavzar Ivloyev because we knew this guy could be a problem at 145 pounds, and officially he is a problem at 145 pounds. Dominates Dan Ege. First round was competitive for a couple of minutes, but then Ivloev just lands this beautifully timed flying knee, IGA ate it like an absolute champion. But from that point on,

the entire momentum of the fight changed from there. So, Jed, let's begin with you. How big of a problem is this guy? And how do we book him for this next one as I'm back in the garden here? Dude, he's a huge problem. I've been telling you all. Y'all just haven't been listening to me.

Again, once again, once again, I am correct. I am proven to be the genius of MMAFighting.com because I had most of Lov in my top, I think top 10, maybe just outside. Everybody else is waiting. You guys are all wait and see. You want to see what happens.

Let him get the marquee win. No, I'm going behind talent and ability. And Movsar is this dude is going to be around for a decade plus. He is going to challenge for a title. I don't know if he's going to win it because Featherweight is obviously one of the best divisions in the sport. But he is, I would be very surprised if it's all said and done, he does not at least compete for one title. And as far as what you're doing with him next, I don't know, man. Like, it's, I, I don't like any of the, the, didn't Ilya Tuporia call him out?

I feel like that's a thing that happened afterwards, but I wasn't paying too much attention. But I don't, I don't want to do it because I want, I want Mavsar to go to the moon right now. I want him up, up, up and away, baby. So I don't know. Somebody, where's the UFC have him ranked now? Pulled up. He just cracked the top 10. And I wouldn't mind a Bryce Mitchell fight, honestly.

I don't know, is Bryce booked against somebody? Because if not, Bryce, what about the Arnold Allen call it? Did you like that or too soon for that? I just don't, Arnold Allen needs to not fight him. Arnold Allen is in the same boat. They both need to be moving forward. Neither of them needs to move backwards. And so, like I said, I have Arnold Allen.

I think my number four featherweight. Like, I want to see Arnold Allen get a tight Eliminator ballot. And as much as high as I am on MobStar, that, That's not a title eliminated ballot form. So Arnold Allen needs to fight, you know, the winner of Calvin Cater, aka Calvin Cater next week or whatever. Like that's where Arnold Allen needs to be going. So I think Movs are, you know, it's a process.

You've got to climb. So give him Gigi Chi Kada, give him Bryce Mitchell. I don't know if Korean zombie is ever going to fight again. And I hate booking Korean zombie because it just sort of feels like you're making, you're intentionally using the veteran as a launching pad. But do something like that. it should be the next step for Mopsar. As we're back inside the 406 club at Fenway Park or whatever it's called now,

there's apparently snow in June, so that's cool. And welcome UFC. Yes, and welcome. That's right, yes. This is from the Media Day, UFC 220. Joe, your thoughts. You shared the event with Mr. of Loya. Do you feel that this guy is the real deal?

Is this the guy that somebody, you know, someone in the next 18 months, two years, we're talking about challenging for the featherweight title yeah you know i went in completely ignorant to him as a as a threat like that just from i guess you've flown to the radar you know i i watch most of the cards i don't know how i was unaware of that and then with you know looking at the card i just kind of looked for a couple names you know that i really really recognize right the back because i was focused on my own thing and uh tuned in mostly because i gay was on there and i mean i was shocked i he was so well around it uh completely dominant and it quickly became the fight of like, oh, Vigay just makes it to the

score cards, it'll be like a moral victory, you know? From what I saw on Saturday, yeah, he belongs in the upper half of that top 10. I guess the tough part is, where do you match him? You know, a Calvin Cater, I like the Chicadez match up a lot. I think that could be a really fun one, because I think he'll just need one

more high profile win before you start talking about either title eliminate or a title shot, you know, but skill set for skill set, I think he could consent for the title, you know, next, but I think he does need those signature wins just for people who aren't analyzed in the sport every day like you guys I follow a lot and was still a little ignorant

to just how good he was but I mean there was no area in that fight where Ige was having any success if he was landing a jab and taking back one step toward the middle you could hear his corner screaming and yelling because it was the only thing that he had going for him so and he really didn't rely on his wrestling a lot or anything like that you know he was out hustling and out striking a super game I so I definitely think a top five or a matchup leading the top five has to be next for him.

Yes. Now, Joe, I want to go back to you because the other storyline that came out of this event is one that you were a part of and you were not alone on this because for months, and especially the last several weeks, we have been talking about judging an MMA and open scoring this and open scoring that. But what only gets sort of brushed over in all of this and all these conversations regarding officials in the sport, the referees, Joe. the referees are having a tough time right now.

We're seeing fighters basically openly cheat, admit that they openly cheat, and why wouldn't they, Joe? Why wouldn't they when nothing happens? Now, in your fight with Alex DeSilva in the second round, we saw something that doesn't happen all that often. It did happen. He ends up getting a point taken away,

and Chris Tione is praised because he did it in that spot and did it in the way they did. It didn't stop the action. He just yelled out, we're taking a point. But that was only after about 25 warnings, Joe, about the fence grabs and other things. And that was not the first time the refereeing was spotty. It was not the last time the refereeing was spotty. It happened multiple times throughout this card, even in the main event, because Herb Dean, the guy they called the gold standard is doing the hokey pokey once again before he makes a call and stops the fight.

So you were in the middle of all of this. Joe, I just feel like this refereeing issue, the amount of infractions that are, you know, are not being called, the amount of points that aren't being taken, this is as big, if not a bigger problem than the judging. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And it is nice that I got the nod and that point taken away, because now I thought I can talk about it a little freely without it being sour grapes, right? But I think what it comes down to is just there has been no penalty for most fouls, you know, unless it's something completely blatantly fight changing. But ultimately, I mean, the toes in the fence in my fight was a thing, but I thought more than

that, that was actually a distraction, you know, for the viewer of the glove grabs. We were conservatively seven to eight, you know, probably closer to double digits with the glove grabs. And that's the same as if I'm on a double leg and you blatantly grab the fence and that's the only way you stay up. That changes the outcome of the fight. You know, I had three close choke attempts and he was in my glove, you know, clear as day. And I actually kind of said it a couple times. and the toes of the fence as well, but I think it almost becomes a shock when there is an action for it or a reaction,

you know, a point taken or a stand-up or something because guys just aren't used to it. They almost get like a how-bear-you-type thing. But if we're going to say it's rules, you know, hitting the back of the head, all the fouls you can commit, it would be the same as having you SADA and then you get, you know, you test positive, and they go, all right, we're just going to let people know

you test it positive, but you're still fighting your next fight, getting full pay and no suspension. There's no real repercussion, you know? which is crazy because when you take the excitement out of it and the betting, which I think is what makes people the most angry as fans going, oh, they shouldn't have taken a point, they should have, whatever. It's a career. And anybody else, if they got, you know, wronged at work,

they're going to HR and follow him a complaint. But, like, you know, I'm on somebody's back looking for a choke. And three, four, five, upwards of ten times he grabs my glove. And you're like, oh, he's complaining. And it's like, man, like, I'm the guy in there. I'm telling you wholeheartedly, if that's not a thing, I can choke this guy. And it is nice to see it happen, but then what's crazy is like in my fight, when it, you know, it affected the scoring of the fight. It was a lot of outrage for a lot of people being like, that's crazy.

It shouldn't happen. It's like, in what other sport? If you shove somebody in basketball, you're getting a foul, you know? If you get, what, is it six of those or seven? You're out of the game. Like, it's cut and dry. And I think what it comes down to with the judging and the roughing, and I know it's a subjective thing. We can't.

There's no data that you can say whether or not they're treating it the way they need to treat it. but especially with all the events every single weekend, I think they're not treating it with the reverence that it deserves. You know, backstage, I had a rules meeting with Chris Tione, and then I had half a rules meeting with Herb Dean before I stopped him. I was like, hey, man, I already had one of these things. Like, are you sure? He's like, yeah, I have you.

And I don't know, let's use your error. And that's, you know, he's a human. He's going to make mistakes. But he had also just walked in the building five minutes before that. I'm like two fights before I'm about to go. This card's rolling. So I think with all the events, while guys are, getting more reps, they're also, it's a lot of numbers, they're just like, eh, whatever,

you know, we mess that one up, we'll get the next one and, you know, mess it up one out of 12 isn't so bad on the night, which, yeah, that's a decent statistic, but that's somebody's, you know, future in the rankings, it's somebody's, you know, show and win money or, you know, whatever it may be. So I do think, I don't know what the answer is, but there's got to be repercussions for cheating, and there has to be some kind of body holding the referees and the judging accountable because I don't think they're treating with the proper reverence it deserves. standing ovation for just lucky. Jed, what do you, what do you think about this referee? I think the refereeing right now is pretty horrible. We have talked openly about just cheat your ass up because

no one's going to say anything and no one's going to take a point away. So why wouldn't you just do that, especially with this pay structure? But I am just tired of hearing Chris Tione, Mark Smith, warning, warning, warning, okay, this is a stern warning now, then another stern warning and then we're taking a point away. Like the first warning, as Joe, said and he kind of got like two warnings because he had meetings with two different referees like those should have been the first warnings maybe give one more but after that we got to be taken points and i know it's annoying but i don't know your thoughts on this you're shaking your head yeah you don't give warnings because somebody cheated and so they get penalized because this

a grown man sport where people are competing for thousands of dollars and it's just not that freaking hard like they don't in the NFL if you grab somebody's face masks they're not like all right well that's your one but don't do it again it's like hey that's 15 yards um it's it's it's it's it's what it is man i don't i i genuinely don't understand the pushback because there is a lot of it about not taking points for the first foul well it'll ruin the fight cool people will stop cheating that's what'll happen you're in charge your strikes that's it like yeah okay i'm sorry if that's going to negatively affect your career don't poke some dude in the eye like pair with the close fist do whatever you got to do to not cheat because like it's just

cheating and it's it just is what it is and you just you penalize people for infractions and that's if there rules you have to you have to do something about it because we talked about it a lot if there is no reason for and i'll tell this to you joe you should cheat your dick off in every single fight you ever have like just straight up because they're not going to call like it took them 1,800 fouls to call that like i don't know why if you have somebody's back you don't like you don't like rub a thumb in their eye to open up a joke because they're not going to do crap about it and like make them there's really no reason not to other than honor but honor don't pay your bills so you should just do the damn thing to get the dub like that's that's it and it's it is very cut and dried to me just at the first the the warning is backstage and or before you sign a contract because you know the rules of the fight you're about to get into you've been given a warning if you make an infraction it's a point the other person also gets, you know, five seconds to recover from, or five minutes to cover from an eye poke or a low, you know, a groin shot.

But just take the point. And that's, it's really, really very, very simple. And there's no good argument as to not doing it if we're going to treat this as a sport. And that's just, I think it's just cutting dry, man. Oh, oh, I also was going to say, yeah, it's also shocking that they're, the referees are bad when there's literally no accountability. who would have thought that that referees don't get better when being bad in no way negatively affects them.

Shocking. I mean, there you go. There's probably a lot to unpack there, Joe. Aren't you glad he came on just for this first segment? Yeah, there's a ton to unpack. And that's exactly it. There is no repercussions. As fighters, even if we win and we're boring,

you're like, maybe they're not going to tell you that's what it is, but you're going to get shelved for a while. You know, I came off the Miller fight and got shelled for eight months, you know? So, like, if you're making Blaine, mistakes. We have, we have what, two, three bad nights and you're gone. And, you know, we're entertaining. The ref's not entertaining. They don't need, anybody can do the rest job that has a couple certification courses. So they're not benching them for events if they stop something

early or don't take a point or there's literally zero repercussions like, like Jedges said. That's an issue, you know, there's no incentive to do better or worse. They're just going to, you know, as long as they don't check the comments, they're going to still feel fine, and then they'll go to the next event next week and get paid. I wonder what an entertaining referee in MMA would look like, though. Is it like Leslie Nielsen and Naked Gun when he's behind the plate and he's doing all the dances? I mean, that'd be amazing. You ever watch like Maiti refs?

Because some of the like diving saves they make for unconscious fighters are entertaining as hell. Those dudes rule at their job. Completely agree. Maybe we should train some of those guys in the wonderful world of MMA. And there we go. Entertainment rules being abided by. Big, big problem in our sport right now. Too many warnings.

It's getting egregious. It's a trap crazy. I'm sure it drove Joe even more crazy. But with that said, let's move to another topic, a big topic, a little more positive topic. UFC 275 this Saturday in Singapore, the main event, Glover Tashara versus Yuri Perashka. Joe Selecki, I love this fight. It's super interesting. The styles clash is mighty intriguing.

What are your thoughts on this matchup? Yeah, I mean, that's super exciting. It's a contrast to styles. I've been a huge Glover fan since the Tapout show, because I was probably one of like five viewers on Versus Network. But it's amazing. That is a throwback right there. Yeah, it seemed like he was never going to be here,

let alone defending the title now. So that's awesome, just as a fan, you know, an old school fan. This is one for the old school fans for sure, the fact that he gets to wear a belt right now and defend it. But it's a crazy matchup because, I can, I mean, every fight can go either way, of course, but you're like, one night I'm looking at it, I'm watching the embedded and I'm like, this is, okay, Glover can get a hold of him, he can drag him down, he can knock him out possibly, like, okay, I'm definitely taking Glover. And then you watch the highlights again of Yuri and you're like, oh man, there's no way he's not going to touch Glover a couple times in Glover's chin, we don't know. It's so hard to gauge where anybody has the advantage except the ground, you know, so what it comes down to for me watching is if Glover's, is if Glover's, it's, it's a gauge. It's, it's if Glover's going to be, you know, in a rush to get him down. You know, I think if he is, then without a doubt, that's his fight all day.

But if he even gets, you know, caught up for a second on the feet, all it's going to take is one, and he may not see it coming. The flip side of that is Uri is so wild. I think it does leave him open for, you know, getting put on the fence or getting taken down. So I would take Glover, but I don't know that I'm super confident in that pick because, you know, he's head-dain issues. And he's much smaller than Uri. So it's tough one to call, but I would take Glover in that. Jed, one person who has been super confident in his selection is this guy right here. I have been super confident in my selection.

And you have been worn down by me. You have hopped aboard the Glover Express. And it's kind of funny because at first, Glover was the guy being overlooked. But the more people have looked into the fight, as Joe sort of alluded to, the more he watches, the more he finds different things. you break it down, the more people are now hopping over to the champion side. When that was not the case when this fight was first put into our eyeballs on October 30th, Glover wins, sees Yuri in the crowd, me and you, buddy, let's go. And now people, Jed, I had people call in the heck of a morning saying,

they feel Yuri Prahashka is actually being overlooked in this fight. How did this happen? Because opinions have swayed quite a bit since October to where we're at right now a little over 48 hours away from this fight. Those people are just wrong. Gary Prasch is not being overlooked. He's like a minus 200 betting favorite. He's very clearly not being overlooked.

He is the odds-on favorite to win this fight. And I don't know, I could pull up topology and see what their current prediction metric is or what the current fan voting is. But I suspect that he's not being overlooked. Those people have just heard you and me and some other people talk about it's about how Glover is now underrated

you know that happens in sports you get you get so underrated that you get overrated etc etc yeah you said it for me though like you just wore me down I'm not entirely confident you're correct because part of me still thinks that Glover's 42 and you Projka is a whirling dervish of violence and those two things usually don't go well for the geriatric dude but I don't know Glover's also been like really good in his 40s.

So you just kind of wore me down because he can knock out Yuri on the feet or just hurt him and then tackle him. And on the floor, he's Glover Tashara. That's where his bread has been buttered as of late. So he just has more ways to win, even if still probably the most likely outcome is that Erie knocks him out. But you just, you took it from me. I can't, I can't buy into it anymore because you're so confident and have been from day one, from literally day one, you've just been like, yeah, no, Glover's going to tap him.

It's just what's going to happen. So I work with you a lot. I talk to you so much every week that you have convinced me to join the Glover to share bandwagon. And, you know, it's a fine place to be. I don't mind sitting here. I'll be a little sad if Erie just does yeary things on Saturday. But then I'll just get to nobody else at Light Heavyweight's beating either of these two dudes, because that's a garbage division.

So I'll get to be on the Uri bandwagon afterwards, and it'll be fun. Until he fights Anka Lyev, because Ankolaev is the best play heavyweight in the world. I was waiting for that to happen. There it is. Joe, one thing, we talked about things from sort of a stylistic perspective, and look at where we are now. I think we're celebrating Yeri, there he is. Yuri coming off of a knockout back of the day.

I mean, we're traveling all over the place. You got ringside seats. I know. I'm like in there. the ring. I'm sitting on the apron right now. This is just incredible stuff that we're doing right now, technology 101. But Joe, I've been, I've basically been saying, as Jed alluded to, that ever since Glover won the title, I think he's going to win. And as this fight goes closer, and I've seen both of these guys speak with the media, I feel like the lion's share of the pressure,

actually almost all of the pressure, is on Yuri Perashka here. Glover just seems so loose, so free, yet so positive, and so excited. to fight this guy. It's not just I'm fighting for the title. I'm defending my title. I'm fighting this guy and I love every second of it. So he's excited. He's free and Yuri's like loose as a goose a little bit, but you can see that there's pressure there. This is the biggest moment of his life. Do you agree with that that Yuri just has way more pressure on him than Glover or do you see it differently? Oh, I think you're 100% right. And I think that's the key to good performances for a lot of people. You know, there's different personalities and all of that, of course. But

I think, you know, he's hit that key word is fighting freely, you know. He doesn't need to do this. He doesn't need to, by signing the contract and making weight, he's going to make life-changing money through pay-per-view points as the champion on Saturday night, you know. That's probably the first and foremost motivator for even sticking around after winning the title was the next one's going to change his life, you know, for his family. I think he has a school as well. He has a great career.

He's definitely done well for himself. And I think at this point in the game, he's probably feeling. that every fight is just like a blessing and a cherry on top, you know? I do think even as young fighters, when we can feel that when we go, whether we're coming off a loss or if, you know, I think I'm premature from my age, so we hit that point in our career where you're like, okay, I'm starting to realize what really matters, what does it, and you have other outlets and there's not all this pressure, you're going to put out better performances in there.

And I think Yeri's the exact opposite from at least how he portrays himself. He's got nothing going on but this. But it doesn't necessarily mean he's training harder. You can only train so many hours a day like Chale would always say, you know, and that's true. So if Glover's still training the same, I think he's at a huge advantage. I think all the pressure's off of him and he gets to go out there and actually have fun with it, which is a term that too many fighters use and don't mean when they say it. He'll actually go out and have some fun competing Saturday night where I think the whole pressure, all the pressure is on Yuri.

Chad, I know you can argue against that because you can argue against anything. And I guess one fact you could say is that guys like Glover, took Glover a long time to get back. It took him a long time. We've seen stories of people falling short in their first bid. They come back in the second bid and they go out and do the damn thing and become champion. George St. Pierre, perfect example. Took Glover a long time. And Yuri

with his fighting style, it's not going to be long for him to get back, especially if Glover only has like a couple lefts. He retires. The titles vacated. Then he can just get right back in there. But do you feel like there's a lot of pressure on Yuri, especially the way people viewed this fight right out the gate,

especially how the betting lines look right now. No. I don't think either dude here cares at all. I mean, they care because they want to win, but like Glover, it's like Joe said, Glover's playing with House Money right now. Like, Glover, Glover wasn't ever supposed to be champion. And now here he is champion and the rest of his career is already set. Like, the difference for Glover's already been made. He was a good fighter who now probably will at some point get inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame because he won the title. Like there's nothing else. He's not going to be. He's not going to be. become the greatest light heavyweight of all time.

That's that's not an option. And frankly, it's not even really an option for him to be in the conversation of second or third greatest given the history of that division and where that division is right now. So yeah, he's he doesn't care. And I just don't think Yuri Perashka cares about things that normal people care about. He's real weird in an endearing way. And like, you know, they talk about being Bruce Lee and that. whole sort of like philosophical kung fu warrior he's just kind of a weird dude who i don't think

grasps things in the way that we normally would so i i strongly doubt he cares like he probably like he cares but i doubt he he's one of the few fighters who i think actually might genuinely not bother about the outcome whereas it's just the process is the thing like if he goes and gets submitted by Glover, but if he does all the things he wants to do and finds Zen or whatever, like I think he'll be content, especially because like you said, he's going to have at least four title fights if he never wins the belt because his division sucks and he's fun. So like, and he's 29 or whatever. Like there's nobody around to stop him from fighting for the belt multiple more times.

At one point he'll probably get it. And if he doesn't, he's still going to get at least one more shot. So I just kind of feel like this is this is pure fighting two dudes who are fighting for something tangible and real and incredibly meaningful. But at the same time, their whole existence isn't tied up into this win or loss. So they will be free out there to do the things that they want to do and be their best selves in the cage. I cannot wait to see this fight. It's going to happen a little over 48 hours. If there's anybody who feels pressure in this situation, it's probably me because I have been on Glover since October 30.

since he won the title, literally minutes after he won the belts, this was my take. It has been that way the entire time. So let's see if I'm... And you convinced me to put money on him. So you are responsible for whether I pay rent this month. That's, you should feel the pressure right now. Well, I mean, you have a gambling show. So if you're relying on the guy who doesn't gamble, then you're at you got yourself in a situation right now.

Well, listen, I feel good about it. But we'll see if I'm dancing with the correct answer, which I had from Jump Street, or if I'm the most passionately wrong. I have ever been. A lot of stake for me. Speaking of stakes, Jed Mishu, you talk about money, we talk about betting. Let's go to the co-main event

because you stated on No Bet's Bard that you are going all in, all in on Valentina Shepchenko. Every dollar not put on other bets on Saturday that is available to you for this purpose in your life. There's thunder there. It's all going on Valentina and Shetchenko. Now, for years, Jed,

We have seen champions have defenses as heavy favorites. And fans complain about it. We all know what's going to happen, yada, yada, yada. But with Valentina, we don't really feel that way. We're seeing her greatness, and she's kind of earned a pass in that regard because people just appreciate how great she is. What is it, Jed, about Valentina and this run that she's on that just has people excited to see her keep going and racking up wins, regardless of who she fights, whether she's a 10,000, minus 10,000 favorite or a fight like a, maybe a Bannonway title fight in the future. We just want to see this woman fight.

She's like a Terminator. Like I don't, the closest person that she reminds me of is, I mean, stylistically is not the case, but like she is like Fador. She is like a female version of Fador where it doesn't seem that anybody has any hope of possibly defeating her. And she also doesn't seem like she's ever going to fumble the back. She's not going to pull an Manean-Nunes and just. have an awful fight for no reason. She's just, she is unflappable and she rules and she's so much

better than everyone that she competes against. It is, I've said this for years now. I've been driving the Chevy truck, the bullet train. She is the best fighter in the world if you are talking about quality over peers. And if you want to quibble about the quality of her peers, that's fine. But you can only fight the people in front of you in your weight class. And she is so much much better than everybody in her weight class compared to anybody else in their weight class. And so it is, she's the best pound for pound fighter in the world. And it is always worthwhile to watch the best pound for pound fighter in the world. And I will always do it.

And I don't know why people have gravitated to her outside of the fact that she is just so overwhelmingly dominant because she's really interesting, but she doesn't, none of that manifests itself, right? Like she's a shooting champion and a dancing champion. She does all this other stuff. She speaks like eight languages. But that's not like a thing that really gets promoted or that she even really does a lot with making it a part of her for the average fan consumption. People just like her because she's a badass. And I honestly think that some of it is just that being a badass is like there aren't a lot of those in women's MMA right now.

There aren't a lot of women who you just can look at and be like, yeah, she's that. dude. She just carries it that way and not a lot of women in the sport do that right now. So she rules and she's going to absolutely bundle Tylos Santos. Joe, you are a fighter. This is MMA. And no matter who you are fighting, you have to believe deep down that you can win. And Tyler Santos has to at least attempt to believe that she could win this fight. But very few outside of maybe her inner circle feel that she can get this. stung. So I ask you, Joe, can she do it? Can she do it? And if so, how? How can she do this? I think the only way would be something crazy. You know what I mean? Catching her with something.

But the counterside to that is, I think 35 is, I mean, obviously we saw the kick of Zaneway Lee with Rose and stuff like that does happen at 115. This is 125. But I think the power only plays a factor maybe at 135 and not even a ton there because it seems to be a volume of punches. I don't see anybody doing that to Valentina. I don't think anybody can put it on her like that in the sense where she's also super well-rounded. So in the chance she gets done with a shot, I don't know that she can't out-wrestle and, you know, recover and then do what she needs to do. We've seen her dominate on the ground. We've seen her dominate standing up.

I don't know that there's a clear path to victory at all. outside of something spectacular, which, I mean, you take anybody in the UFC against anybody in their weight class, there's always a small fraction of a chance of something spectacular happening. But, you know, I thought that with Pena and Nunez, but again, you know, there's power at that weight class a little more than a place a factor more than does it 25. But, yeah, I just, I think she's so intriguing is because she's always showing a different fold in her game every time she comes out. It's not like we're seeing the same fight over and over and over again. And she hasn't proven to really be beatable. You know, even when she went up a weight class, it was a close fight, and it was a tough fight,

and you still wouldn't say somebody beat her up or got the, you know, extreme better of her. So I just think she's one that slips through the cracks where without a stick or a gimmick or anything outside of her skill set, and she's truly humble, she's, you know, got a big fan base behind her, which is, it's awesome to see. see. As a fan of pure mixed martial arts, kind of like Jed said about the last fight where you're watching, you know, this is mixed martial arts competition at its purest. I think every time we see Shevchenko out there, that's what it is. We're watching a master of their craft show us what they've done since their last time out to become more of a master. And I think there is still a percentage of viewers that appreciate that. And I think the ones that don't even realize they do end up appreciating it when they're, you know, waiting for the higher profile main event to come on. or whatever it is, they end up captivated by it because you can't not be.

She really is, like you said, a Terminator. Like, she runs through all the competition. And it's not that, you know, if you look at 115, the top, I'd say the top three to four are super competitive with each other. At 135, it's probably the same, maybe top two or three. But there's no one at 25. And it doesn't, there's no way that just the way class in between

doesn't have skilled female fighters. They do. I think she's just that much better. And that makes her, you know, super captivating and exciting to watch. And I'm excited to watch. And I'd have a hard time putting anything other than a dollar on, you know, the other, the opponent because it's just how could you with the body of work we've seen?

So at the beginning of this, I laid out all these different circumstances that might happen on this program. We might travel to different places. I might sweat a little because it's 100 degrees in the air. I didn't factor that there's a freaking tropical storm over my house right now. So I'm hoping that we can fight through this. because for a second there, the lights flickered on, and I thought I lost power, but it came back on.

So we're good. Now you know what it feels like to be Tyler Santos on Saturday. You're just getting battered by a force of nature. That's what it is. Like, her only way to win is to cheat. She should cheat. Whole buddy should she cheat. She should come out cheating her ass off.

She's not going to do it because fighters won't do that. But like, that's the way to win. I mean, I don't even think that's a way to win, frankly. I think that's just a way to piss Valentina off to hurt her more. But like that's if I'm trying to make a path to victory, that would be it. But it's like Joe said, man, nobody has beaten Valentina and pride rules. People have won fights against Valentina. Nobody has pride rules beaten Valentina Shipchenko.

And a woman who lost tomorrow Romero Borrello just ain't going to be the one, man. That's just not it. Jed, let's just say she cheats her ass off. and she somehow wins this fight. I know you don't, we have to put, you have to kind of force yourself into this universe, okay? Force yourself into this universe,

just for the sake of the question, this hypothetical. If she wins, is this the biggest upset of all time? Is this the new number one? If Tyler Santos beats Valentinio Chonko, is this number one? No.

I mean, it probably should be, but I don't think anything's ever going to eclipse Sarah GSP, just because of, even though in hindsight that has looked less and less like it's still an upset but the magnitude of it is so much lessened given what sarah kind of went on to do and still had great fights against matt hughes and kind of other and how that worked out but i i don't think anything's ever going to approach the sheer shock in all just because of of what stardom gsb had at the time that also coincided with with what was projected in his greatness uh this would maybe be this would maybe be number two

number three I mean the the Pena Noons one is obviously up there it's being Rockhold but it's it would be huge but like truly and I do not mean this hyperbolic in any way I don't know how it happens outside of Chivchenko literally

getting injured like that is the only outcome I see that Tylos Santos has as an avenue to victory here and so it would be enormous and probably on the merits would be the biggest upset of all time, but I don't think kind of that it will really surpass in the culture, the GSP Sarah one. Do you agree with that, Joe, or do you think, I mean, the MMA gods are raining down upon us

as this is happening right now. So apologies for the thunderous noise going on the background. Is this, where does this rank for you? If Santos does get this done, that small, fraction of a percentage. If she wins this, where does this rank for you? I think it's two. You know, and I think for the exact same reason is the magnitude, I think it really probably should be one because you're stripping a lot of the role power out of the deal when it's 125 and female 125 especially, you're going, okay, if she can knock her out or she chokes her or whatever it might be or outside of an injury, yeah, I think skill for skill that is probably the biggest upset. But when you add the bells and whistles of

the aesthetics of GSP, Matt Serra, looking at where Matt Serra's career was, I mean, he was cut from the UFC going into the house, you know, and that ultimately was the other ones were exhibitions on the show, right? So his last fight was a loss in getting cut from the UFC before fighting GSP, which is wild. But if you take all the outside factors,

I think it probably would be number one, but I think for the pure shock factor of somehow in that fight, GSP seemed, I guess, with the hype and everything, even more unbeatable than Valentina is, Although skill for skill, it probably is a bigger gap between her and Santos than Sarah and GSP. I had one more question about this, but I'm going to. Sarah lost to Lytle. Go ahead, Jed, go ahead.

Sarah lost to Lytle. Like, I know he got the decision. He lost to Chris Lytle at the tough final finale. And like, that's just such a huge sliding doors moment in the sport because I don't think Chris Lytle's pulled in the upset on GSP. And so then just like everything might be entirely different. So, yeah, that's still, that's always just going to be the number. number one. And I really struggle to find something that's going to match that ever.

Well, I had more to talk about maybe the future of Valentina if she won that fight, but I think we're running on borrow time with this weather. So I'm going to just going to she's going to win the one 35 pound belt. That's the future of Valentina Shubchenko, two division champion. You're probably right. But let's see. Let's see if Tylen Santos can shock the damn world on Saturday. But before that happens, gentlemen, we got the return of Yuani and Jacek. She's back in the Octagon first time in two and a half years to face the woman she last faced in one of the greatest all-time fights, Zhang Wei Lee, three rounds this time. A lot of people seem upset about that. I get it, but I'm also okay with it being three rounds because those two women took years

off of their lives in that first fight. And secondly, these two women don't fight in three-round fights all that often. And as we heard Dana White say, the next fight for the winner will not be a three-round fight. It'll probably be a title fight against Carlos Spars. So, nice little added wrinkle Joe I'm going to start with you here are you pro 15 minute fight here and who does the 10 less minutes favor more in your opinion

that's what I was just asking myself while you were saying back as soon as you said three rounds I am so used to seeing either of them in a title fight that I didn't even realize until you said that I think it may favor Waili Zing because of her wrestling you know and her pressure she's obviously been working out of fight ready with Suhudo

I think I saw an interview today where she was talking about, you know, really wanting to utilize her wrestling. So she is so physically imposing. I can see her killing clock if she gets a take down or even just using the fence. That is a concern, but I do think, like you said, if they're going to fight another 25-minute fight off of this fight and the damage they took last time, that can be tough, you know. I think Yawanna coming back off of a long layoff, maybe three rounds could also apply into her favor because, well, I guess it goes either way, right? everything goes either way in the sport. But you could look at it and say she doesn't have to pace itself for a 25-minute fight, which is spectacular. But on the flip side, if her timing is off from time out of the cage, then I guess she'd come out of the cage saying, I wish I had two more rounds.

But it is an X factor with her being gone so long. But I do think, you know, we've seen Whaley Zhang be defeated since then, or twice, and we've seen, you know, you want to take the time. And with the camp she's with, I don't think it was time where she's just like, I don't want to be in the sport. I'm going to come back the same fighter. I think she's probably improved on a lot. And refreshed, improved, and, you know, having a blueprint of, yeah, we saw one quick knockout, but also a decision loss for Waley Zang. So I think that's where she could look at that with her team and find some holes there.

I do think from her style of fighting, I believe, you know, a lot of how you fight is how your personality is. And I think Zang is a little bit of a bully in the sense of she does great when she's the hammer. Obviously, we've seen she can survive when she's the nail. But coming off of two losses, it will be fun to see if that plays a factor too. If any of those things play into the fight, I would pick Yowana. But Zang's a monster. I don't know that it's a confident pick. But, you know, gun to my head, I'm taking Yonna in this one.

I'm stunned by news I just saw, and we'll get into it in a moment. I just cannot believe what I'm seeing. Have you seen what I'm talking about? No idea. So we'll find out real time. We will find out real time. Save that news, Mr. Heck. Save that news.

Yeah, we'll save that news. I have to, this is unbelievable, but we'll get into that. Oh, man, I'm so excited for you to tell me now. I can't believe it. I want to look it up. No, no, no, no. I'm not going to, so get to the question so I could start talking and not be that. Oh, Mike died.

Oh, Mike died. Oh, Mike did Mike. What an inopportune time for Mike to go down. I'm going to take this opportunity to answer the question. question he was about to pose to me, which is, what do you think, Jed, about, about you Ania Jachic? I hate that this is three rounds instead of five because, well, one, I hate that this is a title eliminator bout.

And title eliminator fights should for sure all be five round fights because when they fight for the belt, it will be five rounds. So doing three rounds is stupid. It makes no sense. I also in general just prefer all fights, especially among. top level mixed martial artist to be five round fights and I think three rounds may substantively change the outcome of this bout like maybe not because the way that first fight was so close and you know the the question in the first fight was

whether Zhang's cardio could hold up because she hadn't been into championship waters that like ever before and it did so maybe it wouldn't really be a huge difference but you're on a style is one that is particularly more effective over five rounds as opposed to three because she is such a snowball rolling downhill, just kind of building up momentum over time. And I think that this could be a pretty negative outcome for her. The one big caveat here is,

I kind of think it might work in the inverse in this instance because Zhang's with fight ready and because Henry Suhudo seems to, he seemed to really prioritize using a wrestling-based game plan against Rosenomac Eunice. Zhang shot a lot of takedowns in that fight. I think that's a really bad idea against Yohanna because she's really good.

at both not getting taken down and punishing people who try and wrestle her with elbows and kind of, she frankly won all the clinch work in their first fight. And so if part of their gameplay involves a bunch of takedowns,

then I think that actually will end up playing towards Joanna's strengths, especially in a three-round fight. If not, I think the best opportunity for Zhang is to just come out and throw a bunch because in their first fight, Yuana couldn't really hurt her,

not nearly to the same extent she could. and sure Yuan is a cleaner, better, more technical striker, but Zhang has power and power is a great equalizer, and that's how that first fight kind of played out in a lot of their striking exchanges. She maybe got clipped a little more, but she fired back harder, and it was pretty competitive on the feet.

I think she could just empty the gas tank out over 15 instead of saving some for the back 10, and that would really benefit her. But, I mean, it is what it is. It's still a great fight, and I'm really excited to watch it. Is Mike back, Casey? There is. Look at him go.

You're back, Mr. I'm here. The power went out and then it came back on and I don't know what the hell is going to happen. And you have some sort of potato AOL, free CD internet going on right now. Yeah, you're crushing it right now. Yeah, I can't believe I'm even here. We can hear you. We can hear you.

So it's continue. It's, it's just nasty outside right now. The weather looks great at Fenway, by the way. Welcome to South Georgia, bud. Yeah, we're probably going to have a lot. Same same. Yeah. This is, I mean, I still kick it over this news, but we'll save it.

Last thing, Joe, we like to talk about the low-key banger on these cards, the one that's flying under the radar that's circled on your card, not getting enough love, not getting enough attention, but it's one you really like. What's that fight for you on this card on Saturday? Honestly, I've done a terrible job of outside of watching the embeddings and the fights that we talked about, being unaware, but I did hear him say Matthews's his fight. and that's one that I always tune in for. So I don't even know who his opponent is, to be quite frank. But he's one... It's a really good pick in the dark. Yeah, I mean, well, I heard you said at the beginning.

I was like, oh, well, I'll tune in for whatever. If that's a prelim, I'll watch the prelims for specifically him. Other than that, I've got to tell you, I've caught kind of with my pants down here because I did not prepare in that department because I was so worried about last Saturday. And then all I knew was the three we talked about. It was Glover, Yowna, and then my wife's favorite fighter. including me is Valentina. Like if Valentina's one, I'm probably three.

So of course, I'd hear that in the house. Valentina, Stepe, her husband. So I knew those three, but then I just started to say Matthews earlier. And I was like, I'm in for that. Does that black screen being Mike is gone again, Casey? Mr. Hegg, can you hear us, Mr. Hegg? I'm going to say he's gone. So I'll give you my rookie banger because Joe, that was a great choice.

Jake Matthews, Andre Fialho. is a really fun fight. Yeah, so does not even know who he's fighting. He's fighting Andre Fialho. So that's probably the correct answer. Yeah, okay. I remember that now. Yeah, it's probably the correct answer

because Fialho has been awesome in the UFC thus far, two performance bonuses and a banger of a fight with my dude, Michelle Paheia. So that's actually going to be the answer I was going to go with. So I have a little bit slight love for Kyeong-Hokong and Danabak-Gurie in the early prelim

just because Bakery has been hell of fun to watch and I think Kim Ho Kong is underrated as a fighter but I think the right answer is probably Jake Matthews, Andre Fialho. So, Casey,

you have to move into Mike's role as host. Yeah, I think so. All right. I mean, just... Oh, yeah, put you in the middle. Let's go. The first person to ever host BTL that isn't Mike Heck.

I didn't think I was going on camera. crap. I mean, why you've got the guns out? You're looking, looking sharp. You're 55, Mr. Selecky, right? Yes, sir. Ah, fuck. So, Joe, you're the second,

you're the second best lightweight on this podcast, Joe. I mean, I am the only, I am no undefeated fighter on this on this. I was following that. Just saying that. So we don't have Mr. Heck is. lost in a thunderstorm. So do you want to do the final round now? I want to do the news.

And that can be the final round. I just don't like now I, my, my watch keeps buzzing. I assume with our Slack space talking about the news. And I don't want to read my watch because I, I want to get a real time thing. Okay. If it,

if it leaves Mike speechless, it's got to be dope. All right. Let me, let me, let me bring up, let me bring it the news. So I'm like,

there's a, been a fight announcement made and you each have 60 seconds to just tell us your opinion of that fight announcement and your prediction. Who wishes to go first? Go ahead, Jeddy. You go first. All right. Okay. I'm excited. Let's go. All right. Let me get the clock here. Everything's crazy now. What really dumb fight is this going to be? Yeah. All right. So in London, on August 20th, bare-knuckle fighting championships is going overseas.

And in the main event, will be, oh boy, Mike Platinum Perry against Michael Venom Page. MVP. You have 60 seconds now? Tell us about what you think about that fight.

Well, my initial thought, is that bare knuckle fight promotion is a better fight promotion than bellator because they at least know how to book michael venom page in a london fight holy crap that is awesome one props to belator for allowing mvp to box uh even apparently bare knuckle boxing uh i'm gonna watch the hell out of that you kidding that's MVP is a really fun to watch fight now we've watched him kickbox functionally but i'll watch him box he's long and rangy and michael perry He hits really hard and he knows how to get hit really hard. And those are important factors when you're fist fighting human beings. So that's not as weird or wild as it could have been, but it is very unexpected. And honestly, it's pretty good matchmaking.

Like, that seems, I feel like that weekend, we're going to be covering that and it's going to do better numbers than whatever other fights are going on that weekend. So I'm in for it. Let's go. All right. Mr. Selecky, same question. August 20th, Michael Vanne Page versus Mike Platinum Perry in London.

Your time starts now. Usually with Bear Knuckle, I kind of roll my eyes a little bit, the matchups they make. That's an awesome matchup. I'll watch that as well. I usually don't watch Bear Knuckle. That's spectacular. I don't think it's going to be that competitive. Because so my first thing I would guess when I hear, like, when I picture somebody's style,

like Venom Page who just touches is like, oh, he probably has like more fragile hands like Floyd or something like that. But I know for a fact from somebody, I forget how I, there's somebody that fought him, I can't remember who it was. And that's said, you know, the reason he was so tough on the ground was because he has ginormous hands and he wraps his wrist control is so long and strong. And then I know a guy went over and trained with him to get ready for the Logan Storley fight. So I think that's going to be very, very quick work for him because as tough as Mike Perry is, he's pretty slow compared to Venom Page. And another guy we train with,

who's probably the fastest striker I've ever trained with, Ricky Rainey, bought Michael Venom Page. And this is not a knock on Ricky, because he'll tell you, is he made Ricky look slow. So I can't imagine a world where Mike Perry can find him, but that's super intriguing, especially with the fact there's no glove, and I'd imagine Mike Perry hits even harder with a bare knuckle.

So I'll definitely tune in that. That's an awesome announcement. That's probably one of the first ones they've booked. That isn't like freak show. That's just competitive, you know. All right. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Yeah, kind of weird Belator is willing to loan him out, honestly.

Yeah, it seems like confusion on the contract status where no one really knows, but this has been confirmed with Damon Martin has confirmed this with bare knuckle, and it is happening August 20th. So that's a much higher probability of getting his hand busted in a bare knuckle fight. So a little odd that they decided to let him go, but why not? I mean, it's going to be fun. That's sure they're getting. a piece of it or whatever, but that would be fun as hell.

I'm in, good fight. Well done to be a KFC. So, you know, we said this is going to be, we're not really keeping score, but we're keeping score. So, uh, so today's winner. Did you put a poll up or is this a you score? Uh, it's a, it's a, I put a poll up, but I'm the only one that, that participated in it. So today's winner is off the rails. Mr. Joe Selecki.

Oh, I hate you, Casey. I'll take it. I hate you. We said we're going to keep score, but Mike's not here to rein me in, and I want to give Jed another L, says Casey. It's railroaded. Railrooted. So, congratulations, Mr. Joe Selecki. That's two dubs this week, two dubs.

Favorable judging you both. Which win was more significant for you, Joe? Yeah, you're only as good as your last win. You know what I mean? It's this one. Yeah. Got to be true. There you go.

That's true. So what have you done for me lately kind of sport? Okay. Well, yeah, so we're about done here. Mr. Hegg is in a thunderstorm somewhere in South Carolina. All right. Well. We have all sorts of great content on angelofighting.com for you ahead of U.S.

275. You should go listen to my podcast, No Bet's Bard. We're going to have a preview show tomorrow. I don't remember the time. Casey, do you remember the time? Preview show will be Friday evening sometime. Friday evening because of Singapore is making things a little bit different. They're doing the live way-ins that are real way-ins, not just a show way-in.

Saturday, we are going to have a preview show as normal, 30 minutes before the fight starts. We'll do a post-show. It's all going to be dope. tuned to mmafinding.com. Joe Selecki, thanks for coming on. Love you guys. Thank you, Joe. Undefeated. Yeah, thank you, that was awesome. Thanks so much. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.