MMA Fighting - BTL | Holloway vs. Rodriguez Classic, Cyborg vs. Harrison Chances, Tate's Title Hopes, More

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

Was the Max Holloway vs. Yair Rodriguez fight from this past Saturday actually better than Justin Gaethje and Michael Chandler's battle at UFC 268? That question will be answered this week on third opening round matchup in the Between the Links Championship tournament. In addition, the panel will discuss what the best option is for Holloway following his unanimous decision win over Rodriguez at UFC Vegas 42, what performance from Saturday's event stood out outside of the main event, Herb Dean's recent struggles continuing, where Cris Cyborg goes from another dominant title defense at Bellator 271 and what the chances are that Kayla Harrison would be the next challenger, Roman Faraldo's incredible KO, the stakes of this Saturday's UFC Vegas 43 main event between Miesha Tate and Ketlen Vieira, and more. Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and MMA content producer Alex Wendling. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Alex Wendling: @AlexWendlingMMA Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, The Downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is Between the Links, your host, my...

It is always good to hear the iconic voice of Esther Lynn as we welcome you to a brand new edition of Between the Links, the BTL Championship Tournament rolls on this afternoon. We have our first semi-final matchup set between Alex Kee Lee and Phoenix Carnivali in two weeks time. This week, we're going to punch our third ticket to the final four. The winner of this week's matchup, we'll face the winner of next week's matchup

between James Lynch and Kristen King, a couple of BTL favorites. This week, a lot to get into. So let's get started. First, let us introduce a two, two-time BTL competitor. She competed on the incredible BTL 50 Gauntlet episode and she's back looking to surprise some folks. As she has drawn one of the BTL all-time greats in the opening round. Let us introduce content producer. She's all over the place these days. We're in a lot of hats

in the combat sports space. Alex Wendling joins us this week. How are you, Alex? I'm doing great. I'm excited to be back. It's been a while, but I'm ready to show jet up and surprise some people. There you go. And now we introduce a man who has spent a lot of time in the BTL virtual arena. He hasn't been in a competition setting in quite some time, but he's taken some time to reset, dust off the old vocal cords. He's motivated to get to the finals. He's taking things to another level, I'm told, motivated to once again become the people's undisputed champion, Mr. No Gray area himself. Jed Michoud, how are you, my friend? Oh my God, look at this guy. I feel as good as I look, Mike. Let's be clear about a couple things.

I haven't been in a competition since I've been on this show. It's murders all the way down. And I'm sporting a lovely outfit today because I've been told my whole life, you dress for the job you want. How you see me every week? I'm wearing a shirt. That's for the job I have, which is as the greatest champion in this show's history, the guy who day in, day out, defends his belt, puts on content for the fans,

spews the takes. But the job I want, I'm coming for you, Phoenix Carnivali. We know the end of this tournament. It's her versus me, and I'm dressed to the nines because that's the job I'm coming to take her out, to end that Undertaker Street, and bring the BTL title home where it belongs to MMAfighting.com, the greatest website in the world. Wow. I mean, I'm speechless right now. I don't even know how I can host this show right now. So this is just what an unbelievable arrival. What an entrance to the program. But we got to get into this thing.

Suit or not. We got to take this thing very seriously. AK just lacked me and said WTF is Jed wearing. Dressing like a pro right now. Absolute pro. At first I thought you said you were coming from my job. Bringing a little class, AK, something you don't know anything about. Maybe if you're lucky.

Oh, you won't because Phoenix is going to give you the boots next round. So you don't even get to be destroyed by me. Oh, man. Well, let's get into the thing. We can talk about Jed's ensemble all day long, his wardrobe, his tailor. But let's start with this past Saturday because Max Holloway and Yaya Rodriguez did the damn thing in the main event of UFC Vegas 42. Super close fight. Holloway comes away with the victory, as Jedmishu likes to say.

And I was kind of in the Jed role. MMA fighting's official stance on the bout was 4847 for Max Holloway. Really good fight. Alex, we're going to start with you. Your overall take on the fight, what did you think of it? Did anything surprise you? I think Yair's performance surprised us in general after having that two-year layoff. He comes out and he goes the distance with Max Holloway, not only goes the distance,

but it was exciting the whole way through. If we're having the debate on whether it was fight of the year, I don't will probably get into some other options. But I think it is an option for fight of the year. I think there are some other contenders up there that I think could show up what we saw with that. But in terms of the featherweight division, we have to see what's next. Do you have Yairair who could be matching up with Brian Ortega next? And Max Holloway, where does he go from here?

I thought we got a lot of those answers knowing that Yair is ready to take on some of the best of the best in that division. Anything surprise you, Jed? I mean, Yair, the layoff, kind of everything who's happened, the back and forths with the UFC, to go in there. Max Holly, heavy favorite, almost an eight to one favorite in a lot of people's betting lines. And Yair was a massive underdog. And I thought the fight delivered, did anything actually surprise you in the fight? Is this what you expected in the grand scheme of things? That's not what I expected at all.

I was incredibly impressed by Eir Roger, you guys. I think we need to kind of separate a different conversation about this. being fight of the year versus, you know, his performance. Because I don't think this is, you know, it was a really good fight when I hear to take that away. I just don't think this is really even a realistic contender for fight of the year because I think that the fight was a lot more one-way traffic than people are kind of remembering it as. But it was never not competitive. And that is what astonished me. I thought Ja'air could be competitive for a round. He's, you know, not a bad fighter at all. And he is

rangy and has got that link to match up with Max's. But he was competitive throughout. I scored it 4 to 1. Officially, obviously, it's 48, 47. It would never take away MMAfighting.com's official scorecard. But, you know, I just thought that Yairair would not be able to hang with him for five rounds. And he did. He gave a great accounting of himself.

And my stock, my opinion of Yair's stock went through the roof after this performance. Because honestly, coming in, you could look and. and nitpick Gaiyer's career. You know, he's got the win over Korean zombie, but that was in a fight he was about to lose before a lucky, let's just call it what it is. I mean, you can't ever expect to hit that back elbow upshot realistically, but he did.

So he gets the credit for that W with maybe the greatest knockout we've ever seen. But at the same time, like he, his best win outside of that is Jeremy Stevens. I don't know how much that means in the year 2020 or 2019, I guess, when they fought. So I had a lot of questions and he answered them all. He looked sensational. And he looked to be delivering on that promise that he had as a prospect, which is not what I expected. So tremendous fight and great performance from both guys.

All right. So to go back where you just said, Jed, you talk about fight of the year and stuff like that because this is a recency bias sport, right? This fight just happened. It was great, fresh in our minds. But then I had a bunch of people hit me up on Instagram. So I'm saying this fight was better. Justin Gachie versus Michael Chandler.

Some saying it was good, but it wasn't that good. You seemed to be on the ladder. Obviously, one was a three-round fight. You had fans going bananas at MSG, the other five-round main event inside the near-empty UFC Apex, where you had like golf claps going around. Not a bad problem to have, Jed, when you have two fights like this and back-to-back weeks,

but which one was better? I seem to think you know what the answer is going to be coming out of your remote, but which one ages better, in your opinion? What's the better fight? The one we saw last week, or Gaichi versus Chandler the week before? Well, I don't know which one age is better because Ziair's pretty young in his career.

So we may look back on this fight in particular and be like, wow, that's two all-time great featherweights. That's tremendous. But I think fight for fight's sake, like this is pretty obvious to me that it's Gaetia Chandler is a superior fight. You know, like I said, I think it was a really good fight. It is certainly in the top 10 fights of the year. Maybe we'll crack the top five when we're all said and done here.

But for me, the big difference is, is Gachy Chandler, one, I felt coming into them, I both felt that one guy was clearly going to beat their shit out of the other dude because Michael Chandler sucks. I'll keep saying it. I still believe it. He sucks. Justin Gaetje's awesome. It might be the best lightweight in the world. But Chandler gave a great accounting of himself and, you know, really had, had Gaichi in trouble.

And while Jaire gave a great accounting of himself and he hit Max with hard shots, I did not think that Max was ever really in trouble, especially after. after maybe midway through the second round. Because the only thing that I saw that looked like, ooh, Yair has a path to victory, was the leg kicks, but he kind of got away from that as the fight wore on. And at that point, it was just, okay, this is how tough and how good, how competitive can Yairair make this fight, not who's going to win.

I didn't have any questions about who was going to be the victor after the first five minutes of that bout realistically. With Gachie Chandler, Chandler fought, maybe the dumbest fighting possibly could have. And we're all better for it. We all benefited because it was fantastic to watch him just gut his way through some of the most savage beatings that a human being can take. Because that's what Justin Gaichi does. I wrote about this for the site not long after that fight.

Justin Gaichi ends careers. You look at the guys he has fought and how they have fared afterwards. The record is terrible. With the exception of Dustin Poirier, who is maybe the toughest human being alive, apparently. Nobody has come out of a fight with just. Justin Gaci and been better for it. And Michael Chandler knew that going in it and stood up to it for five or for three rounds, you know, three, five minutes.

That's, that fight was awesome. It was everything that I didn't think it was going to be. And I think that's either the best or second best fight of the year, depending how you feel about Volcanovsky-Otega. Alex, what do you think? Which fight did you like better? Gachy Chandler, Holloway Rodriguez. and where would you put Holloway Rodriguez overall in the fight of the year conversation?

Is it even on your list? I think it definitely is in the fight of the year conversation just from a technical standpoint. If you're the type of person that just wants to see a dopamine dump of the first round where people are trying to get heads flying, then yeah, you're going to pick Gaichi and Chandler. But I think they dumped out so much energy. It was only three rounds when after Chandler got hit with that uppercut and I thought it was going to be done there. Gachi had him on the ground. He probably could have won for a submission, but he didn't.

He chose to keep going. I think if Gachy were to have gotten the finish after he hit that uppercut and Chandler was dazed, then that should have been fight of the year because it would have put the stamp on everything that we expected. We were expecting fireworks, yes. But literally everyone in their mom was saying that that fight was going to, it wasn't going to go the distance. Someone's getting knocked out. And as soon as every single commentator and everyone was saying that this isn't going to go the distance. In the back of my head, I'm like, oh, every time people are so definite about an ending, it never happens. Because MMA is so weird.

And they ended up going the full three rounds. But it wasn't as if they were going three rounds as hard as they can. Like in the third round, I'm sure they're going as hard as they can. could. But if there was a belt on the line, I feel like we wouldn't have been seeing just kind of walking around, Michael Chandler throwing random stuff up because he was so exhausted because they had put so much energy in the first round. So when you look at Max Holloway and Yair Rodriguez, Rodriguez coming off of a two-year layoff, able to withstand Max Holloway's volume for all five rounds. And in total, they had 389 significant strikes, the third most in UFC history,

significant strikes are super important. You look at Chandler and Gichi's at just 219. Yeah, they only had three rounds. But I think if you look at the volume and the diversity of Max Holloway and Yaira Rodriguez, flying knees, kicks, everything. The last little spurt of energy that Yayir gave because his coach in the corner said, hey, man, you got to finish this. And you saw that funky stuff he was able to pull out. That's the kind of exciting stuff that you want to see. That's that warrior-like mentality that you get from the Mexican. in the fifth round who was completely tired, just went four hard rounds Max Holloway. Almost, some people almost thought that it was a 10-8 round in the second round when he was really succumbing to Max's volume and almost got submitted. So I thought there were plenty of moments in the Max Holloway fight where you were like, oh, shoot, is this going to end here? But they kept going, they kept fighting through. And ultimately it comes down to there was so much hype going into Chandler and Gagey

and for their not to have been a finish, I'm not going to say it underdelivered, but for them to not be going through the, giving it they're all through that third round, that's what kind of killed it for me. It was like this dopamine dump in the first round, and I'm like so high from that, and then nothing to really like tap it off,

whereas throughout all of Holloway and Yair is like, yeah, it might have been a steadier, more long-lasting fight, but I think that is what makes it a condition. tender for the fight of the year, especially the fact that it was a third most significant strikes in UFC history. And it kind of put the rest of the MSG crowd to sleep for a fight that some people thought was actually the better fight between Shane Burgos and Billy Q later on.

But last thing on this, for you move on, Alex, Max Holloway has a lot of options right now. He could fight Volcanovsky for the third time. Personally, I'd love to see it. I'd love to see a Best of Seven series from those two guys. It's MMA, impossible probably. but if there's two guys I'd like to see a best of seven from, it's those two guys. But Max Holloway, Alex, in my opinion, look, there's fighters who transcend titles. They don't need titles.

They don't need title fights to be stars. Max Holloway, in my eyes, is one of those fighters. There's championship options. There's big money fight options, dream fight options, at 45 and 55. So if you had the mighty pencil, Alex, or in this case, the dry erase board marker for the matchmaking war room at the UFCPI, how are you matching Max Holloway up next? Are you doing the title fight or do you get something a little more funky in mind? Well, if I'm looking at it from the point of view of UFC and the matchmaker's side,

I would not want to match up Max Holloway and Connor McGregor. I would want Connor McGregor to come up against a star that maybe he has a better chance again. So like maybe a Nate Diaz or maybe someone that will still bring in that crazy pay-per-view crowd. But if I was Max who just got married, of course, I'd want to take the Connor McGregor fight. And he's already a legend in this sport. When I interviewed amateur fighters, I asked them every single question, like, who's your favorite fighter that you want to emulate in your career? And there was 20 kids on this card, and half of them said Max Holloway. So he is so important to fighters and fans growing up.

They just love who he is. So in terms of legacy, no, does Max Holloway have to go to Volcanowski next or everyone's going to forget about him? No, everyone's always going to have Max Holloway in this sort of Hall of Fame sphere. But I think Max Holloway, if it were up to Max, he should definitely go the Connor McGregor route. But either way, it's kind of a win-win situation. Volkanowski and Connor are both 33. And if he does try to get Volkanowski, he could try to get Volkanowski, he could try. try to get that win and then they would have to, I don't know, fight what out of seven to see you

who really gets the championship. But right now it's just the Feather or the Alex and Max Holloway show in the Featherweight Division. So if he has to dally in some other divisions, he can do that. But ultimately, if it was Max's choice, I would definitely pick the paycheck way with Connor. What are you going with, Jed? You are the featherweight divisions matchmaker right now. How are we doing this? Like, I want to see this. the title fight. I want to see them fight every month if we could make it happen. If we can do Holly Volkanowski every month, I would watch it

every month and be just as interested every time around. How are we booking this thing? Are you doing the title fight, the trilogy, in a weird sense with Volcanowski being up to O? Or are we going somewhere else? We're getting a little crazy and shooting them up to 55 against for some bangers. No, let's be clear. I mean, you're

doing the title fight next because that's the low hanging through you take it. Also, let's be super clear. Conn Regger is not an option. I know Max is trying to manifest this is a real thing by saying it a bunch in the media and on the mic, but Connor don't want none of those problems, man. Are you kidding me? I don't think Connor McGregor is afraid of anybody, but I think Connor McGregor has at least some level of understanding on risk assessment,

and he gets nothing by fighting Max Holloway, and he will lose. That is not a close contest, in my opinion. Connor, what are the things Connor's good at, winning early? What is Max the toughest human alive and wins late? Like he just builds and builds. It's a horrible style matchup. He should never fight Max ever again. And he won't.

And so given that, yeah, Max would love to pursue that, but that's not going to happen for him. I think the most obvious thing is just the thing we're going to do. It's the trilogy with Volcanovsky. On the one hand, I actually don't like it, mainly because I don't think Max is going to win. But for that exact same reason, I think that's why you do it. One, Volkanowski's now calling for it, which is really important. He is over his idea of wanting to fight other people because Max is so clearly the next man up.

There's enough heat there. There was some controversy in the second match. You run it back. I think Volcanovsky is a clear favor going into that. He'll probably win that fight because the texture of their first two fights. I think the style matchup just favors him, frankly. And so once that's done, then we can get Max Sturray. needs to be because Max belongs at 155. Yes, he is one of, not the just so we're clear,

Joe Rogan and everybody else who says it, one of the greatest featherweights of all time. He is still not better than Jose Aldo and all the tremendous things Jose Aldo accomplished, but he is number two on that list. And that's great. He has nothing left to accomplish at 145, but you know what's it lightweight. So many bangers, baby, they've already done the fight with Porre. Lest we forget the second best fight of that year. The only reason it wasn't fight of the year is because on that same card, Israel Adisina and Kelvin Gastilum put on one of the best fights I've ever seen in my life. He's got a fight with, we just talked about him, Justin Gachie.

Who doesn't want to watch Max Holloway and Justin Gachie hurt each other? Because I do. Sign me up. 155 is where I want to see Max. So if we got to get him through a featherweight title shot to get him up there, let's do it and then let's start having fun, baby. I was waiting for it, and there's the air horn. Great conversations to have.

Not a bad place for the UFC to be in with Max Holloway and even Yaya Rodriguez, who kudos to him. Stock rose tremendously in that effort and that performance. Other stocks rose on Saturday as well. Some plummeted, and we'll talk about that in round two. But the first point of this championship opening round matchup goes to, I mean, I got to give it to the John Travolta, Pulp Fiction looking Jed Mishu for the ensemble and

bidding some absolute fire. Come on, give me the whole thing. You got to do the eyes, the triangles on the eyes. Yeah, that's the one. That's the one. Clip that off. Clip that off, award-winning social media team. You may have heard of the sex cult nexium and the famous actress who went to prison for her involvement, Allison Mack. But she's never told her side of the story.

now. People assume that I'm like this pervert. My name is Natalie Robamed, and in my new podcast, I talk to Allison to try to understand how she went from TV actor to cult member. How do you feel about having been involved in bringing sexual trauma at other people? I don't even know how to answer that question. Allison after Nexium from CBC's Uncover is available now on Spotify. Hack the holidays with the PC Holiday Insiders Report. Try this PC Porchetta, crackling, craveworthy. You're going to eat that?

Who are you? I'm the voice for the next ad, car commercial, but I noticed that show-stopping roast and... Help yourself. Mmm, designed for indulgence, precision crafted to navigate every corner of my mouth, all for just $18. Okay, okay. Try the season's hottest flavors from the PC Holiday Insiders Report. Please feast responsibly. We're going to call this around.

We'll title it The Good and the Bad from UFC Vegas 42. Let's start with the good, Jedmishu. will make this nice and simple. Outside of the main events, which we just talked about, which performance, which fight, which fighter stood out to you the most on Saturday that deserves some extra kudos on this Thursday afternoon. Other people fought on Saturday?

No, just kidding. A card was awful on paper, but it was one of those ones where actually it was really entertaining all finishes or damn near something like that. And a lot of really great performances we could talk about. about Sean Woodson or Andrea Lee or, you know, Chaos Williams doing his thing. But for me, easily the biggest winner on the night outside of Max Holloway, who's going to get a title fight, Song Yadong, man, outside of it being childishly hilarious, his name,

he is an incredible fighter. And Julio Arce is also really damn good. I'm not sure people recognize how good Julio Arce is because he has a couple of losses in the UFC. But it's important to remember that before coming into that fight, he had two split decision losses in competitive bouts against good fighters. Like, this is a dude with a tremendous amount of talent, and Songy Dong dismantled him. Like, he, he stunted on him and then got him out of there in the second round with that head kick and follow-up shots. And he's 23. He is 23 years old.

The alpha male guys do nothing but sing this kid's praises. And with good reason, like he has all the hallmarked. to somebody who is going to be a major factor in the Bannamway Division for a decade plus. So that's it. Like I thought this kid was good and interesting coming in, but I have a lot of respect for Louie or say. And the way he kind of just ran through him makes me really, really high on what this very young kid who's still totally in the development process of his game, what he can look like in three, four years. We're talking about a guy who might have a belt.

And in, as Casey likes to call it, though I disagree, the best division in the best division in, the sport. If Casey was the judge, you'd be in real good shape right now. Alex, what do you think? What other performance stood out to you, whether it's just a fight or a fighter's performance that stood out that's just not getting enough shine because of how good the main event was? I also picked Song Yadong coming in just because that division is so deep, not just in the UFC, but also in Bellator where you could be getting a Bantamweight Grand Prix as well. So I thought Song Yidong being only 23 years old. Training with Uriah Fabor has so much potential and just looking at the matchmaking going into that fight. You had Julio Arse at 17 and 5. He's 32 years old, has age and experience,

but Song Yadong came in and had his ranking on the line. I think that's a lot of pressure for a 23-year-old coming in. And he's fought on big paper views before where he's had times where he's lost and times where he's won and shown out. So I don't think like a big stage, a little stage really, affects him. Just he's still building on. And I think everything that he'll be learning from Uriah Faber will be super helpful. But I guess to differ a little bit from what Jed said, picking song, I'll go with Chaos Williams. I think he has a great backstory, able to utilize his, I guess, street fighting background and take that into the cage. He said that he always, I guess, felt more inclined to boxing. But when he got into more jiu-jitsu and stuff, he's

been able to implement it there. So I thought he had a really good show out. And those are my two standouts from that from that card. Yes. And if you ever want to hear Chaos Williams compare MMA to chess, make sure you watch his interview from the MAA because what an excellent example of comparing the two. And not just a cliche. He's like the only person in the history of this sport who has actively like accurately made the comparison to chess. Ah, it's kinetic chess is the dumbest statement that used to get banned. about the chaos Williams is a really good job also broke it down who's eight feet tall yes Sean Watson is eight feet tall I interviewed him check that on a week on next very interesting stuff now

that's the good we got ahead to the bad or the getting worse because Herb Dean has found himself in the hot seat once again AK moving on to the semifinals has now deemed him hesitant herb and I like that one I think that one's going to stick after this past Saturday but we saw it in the co-made event on Saturday, Marcus Ruggiero de Lima, was putting the wood, as Jed likes to say, to Ben Rothwell. Herb Dean steps in, makes contact with the fighters, and he's like, nah, all good dude, keep hitting him if you want. Weird moment, finally stops the fight, and he's been in a few of these over the last couple of years, the Francisco Trinato, Gai Herbert fight that Dan Hardy got involved in, Marina Rodriguez, Amanda Hebas. That one was kind of

weird. This one, I mean, and there are others as well. You could write a whole book about this at this point. But Alex, let me start with you. Is Herb Dean as a referee becoming a liability? Are you sort of holding your breath a little anxious when you hear Joe Martinez or Bruce Buffer say your referee in charge, Herb Dean? It's tough because he's been in the in the game for so long. So when you're in the game for so long, you're going to have more errors. But it seems like it is getting worse with time. And I think the one that really stands out to me is the Marina Houdrigas, Amanda, Hebas one. You just don't want to see people having to get knocked out twice or having there be any confusion.

If you ever contact or touch the fighter, that's kind of a sign that the fight is off. So I definitely think at this point it's becoming a little bit of a liability and kind of a running joke on MMA Twitter. Someone made a wonderful thread of all the moments that he's had, kind of sort of. screwing screwing it up. So I think, I mean, maybe he just has to really make it a point when he is making a decision. And if it's instinctual, he just has to go for it. But, you know, I can't, I've never done refing before, especially in those situations where you're seeing it from a different angle than where we're seeing it. So I don't think it's a liability. I don't think he's done anything to the point where we have to be like, oh, and there's also a difference between

him making an honest mistake and him being like, oh, I wanted him to show his full power. Like, it's not as if he's doing it with any weird intentions of wanting them to show out more. So I don't think it's too much of a liability. I think that he shouldn't be getting any, you know, of the main events. I think Jason Herzog does a really good job and that there are other refs who might be a little bit quicker and might act on their instincts quicker that could be taking more of the refing gigs, but definitely a slight liability. If he has too many more of these moments, it could be out for Irv Dean. Yeah. Listen, refereeing sucks. Like, who wants to be a

MMA referee? Who wants to be an MMA judge? Those are two thankless jobs. Once in a while, the referee gets praised for a good stoppage, but a judge never gets overly praised for a good scorecard. We don't stand up and applaud Adelaide Byrd when she actually gets one right. I mean, maybe we do on Twitter, just joking around being sarcastic about it. But Jed, we've had conversations. Jason Herzog has made mistakes. He's still one of the very best in the business. John McCarthy, when he was in his heyday, he made mistakes.

Herb Dean's making a lot of mistakes. Chris Tione last year was the scariest referee in the sport. I mean, it seemed like every time this guy was in there week to week, he was making some sort of blunder. This year, I feel like he's probably the most improved referee. But, man, you could sit there and take nut shots, cage grabs, and he'll give you a warning, a final warning, a final, final warning, and then an absolute final warning before he decides to take a point.

So that's Christiarty. Now, Herb Dean, with the Herb Dean is, do you feel like everyone, are we overreacting with the Herb Dean thing because he is Herb Dean? He was the quote unquote gold standard for a while. Are we reacting correctly or are we not reacting harshly enough here, Jed? I think we're reacting correctly. First, I would like to react to Alexander K. Lee's horrible. Colby Covington-esque, hesitant herb.

That is some garbo. Like, I don't know what you do. Double clutch Dean is better than hesitant herb. That's just trash. Let's get that garbage out of here. But more importantly, no, we're not overreacting because Herb has been bad, like, just straight up. And I, this is of the questions you sent us. This is the one I spent the most time pondering, honestly, because I just sort of got down a rabbit hole that was kind of interesting to me.

And tell me from wrong. I'd really just kind of like to workshop this idea with you guys. Alex, feel free to hop in. Here's my take on this, right? I am the kind of person who I need to be able to advance and improve in my job or else I'm just not going to be interested anymore. Like, you know, I not necessarily climb the corporate ladder, but I want to develop new skills. I want to get better. You know, I would like to go up as far as I can. Herb has nowhere to go.

He is, he maxed out being a ref 10 years. probably longer than 10 years ago. And there's there is no upward mobility. He was like you said, the gold standard, especially after John McCarthy left. I would argue he was better than John McCarthy at the end of McCarthy's tenure. But I just don't know what gets you up every morning. We talk about it with champions all the time. Like it's difficult to defend a belt because what is your motivation? You know, when you're in those silk sheets, it's a lot harder to get out of bed to go train. And that's kind of where Her deed is to me. Like he has been the guy. for so long he just gets up and goes to work and when i'm in that position my work drops off dramatically

like just straight up like i'm just not nearly as good at my job if i'm not working towards something if i don't have goals i can achieve and i know that that's not the same for everybody but i could totally believe and i kind of think that that's the case here you've been doing a job for 15 20 years and and you're the best or considered among the best but there is no upward mobility how how do you how do you keep that edge and I don't know the answer. And so, yeah, honestly, maybe Herb is thinking the same thing and maybe he wants to follow John McCarthy into the booth or transition out in another way. But for me, I think legitimately double clutching on people, you know, touching them,

not touching them, that's a problem. And you got to get over that. I don't know how he does it, especially if really the root cause is that he's just kind of, he's lost his edge. Is this like the MMA refereeing equivalent of the YIPP? Jedd is he does he just have the yips like how do we fix this just pretend look in the mirror and pretend you're stopping a fight like how do we how do we fix this i don't think it's the yips because to me the yips are like a confidence thing i doubt her dean has a lack of confidence

he's reffed thousands of fights before i i just i don't know maybe it is maybe that's why he's double clutching i and i damn sure don't know how to get rid of the yips if i did i wouldn't be on here i'd be making millions of dollars as a sports psychologist so maybe that's it Maybe Herb just needs to go to a sports psychologist. Let's line him up with somebody. The UFC has vast resources. Let's button this up because he can't be touching fighters and not stopping the fight. That's got to go.

What do you think, A-dub? Is that cool or terrible? A-dub? I don't know why I just said that. I honestly have no idea why I said that. So you're probably going to get a point for that awful nickname. What do we do here? How do we fix the Herb Dean?

yipporino's here. I think there comes a time where, you know, he might have to start considering different routes. And I don't, I'm not going to say like retiring from refing is one thing that he should consider. But if it's putting fighters at risk, then that's something that we need to consider. Or should he be taking some meditation classes where he's in the moment and he's able to make the most, the best decisions for these fighters, maybe looking back at some of his fights, like, what is he doing outside of this? Is he watching back these fights for next time he's not going to do this

for this situation? How is he going to handle it? I think there's been so many kind of moments like this with Dawkins and Kevin Holland, where they had to literally go back and ask her for his opinion. So obviously, his opinion is respected in the industry. I think he's has a role sitting back and being able to give advice for maybe some of the other referees. And if there ever comes a time where he needs to have his opinion involved, then he can be involved. But I think in the moment and having to react to things happening in the cage super fast, if that's not something that we can see improvement in these next fights that he rests, I think it's time to call it quits for Herb Dean.

I like it. Like Mark Ratner's assistant sitting Cajside. You know, maybe we could just put him, maybe we could put him in the booth. Like not as a full-on commentator, but if there's a call that's questionable, we can go to Herb Dean in the booth and he can explain why a call was made or how he would have done it. Like, there you go. I think we just saved Herb Dean and made him much more interesting in today's MMA world. But the UFC and Herb Dean was not the only game in town this past weekend. Bellator was back as well in Scenic, Hollywood, Florida.

We'll touch on that next, but the point for round two goes to Alex Wendling. It is one to one to one. We're about to go there, Jed. I don't know if you watch Morning Kombat. That's how I know you're not on this show a lot because you pointed the wrong way first. It takes, it takes many episodes. I still don't think I figured that part out yet. All right.

So let's talk about, let's talk about Bellator 271. took place on Friday. BKFC 22 was also going on like right down the street. A lot of weirdness from that car, but that's another topic for another day. But Bellator debuts in South Florida, Chris Cyborg goes out and destroy Chenade Cavanaugh in the main event to retain her featherweight title. No one really surprised by that. No disrespect towards Cavanaugh, but Cyborg was like a minus like 5,000 favorite by the time the fight started. Alex, let's start with you. We have a dominant champion in Bellator in this division. Yes, we have one with Valentino Shibchenko. We have one with the man to Nunes.

Jedmishu in his own mind on BTL. But while we expect Schochenko and Nunes to win every time that they fight, there's at least like some kind of narrative you can like slap on it. Like if this happens, it could get interesting. If this goes to the fourth round, maybe this could happen. If this gets taken to the ground, maybe this can happen. With Chris Cyborg, we're not really having these discussions. It's how and when this fight ends for Chris Cyborg.

So what do we do with Chris Cyborg now to make things more interesting? Chris Cyborg versus Blank. Book it, Alex. How do we do this? I mean, it's hard to answer this question when we still have Kayla Harrison as a free agent because Chris has just been able to kind of clear out her division in Bellator. And the only interesting matchups are if you get a rematch with Cyborg, which, you know, that goes back so far of Data White saying that, oh, well, she didn't want the matchup.

And she didn't want this or that. because Cybor's already done so much for women's MMA. You know, it's not as if she has to go out there and fight the best of the best. But if she does want to have that stamping on her resume and the legacy, I think she needs to go out with some of these more power cross-promotional fights. In terms of with Bellator, there's not too many options. I think there's not too many options that she can go to at this point. So I think she just has to wait and see what Kayla Harrison decides.

And I think the chances are pretty high considering Dana White has said that he's not even super interested in keeping the featherweight division if it weren't for the double champ Amanda Nunes. Jed, what do you think? I think this Kayla thing is going to take a little while, perhaps. And we'll dive a little more in depth into that part of the conversation in a moment. But I mean, like to me, I was like Pam Sorensen like needs to win because at least you have. somebody to throw in there. Sure, you get Kat Zengano, but I would like to see Kat like fully confidence,

like run off like three or four wins before she steps in there and make this fight as interesting as possible. That's just the way I look at it. And at Lisa, Pam wins. You could either do Pam versus Kat, number one contender fight, or you just throw Pam in there to fight Chris and let Kack and Zangano just kind of build her confidence.

So is it Kat, like do we just run, go right to this well right now? Because they've set it up on Twitter. How do we do this? First, I would like to address the thing you said that was objectively false. Nobody's creating narratives about the possibility of defeating Valentina Shibchenko. You've talked to me enough to know this. Like, I don't, there's no narrative.

It is a matter of what manner in which she wins. So let's just check that. And we're not doing it for Amanda Nunes either. Unless those two women fight, they're both winning. That's just how that goes. And Chris Cyborg is right there. She's not fighting either Nunes or Shepchenko or at this point, maybe Kayla Harrison, there's no narrative.

But that's fine. It is okay to have a dominant champion. It is okay if you to go out and put it on her show. All respect in the world to Shnade Kavanaugh because she did her job. Because her job is not to go beat Chris Cyborg. Sure on paper, that would be the best for her. And that is ostensibly her job. Her job is to go not be boring.

And she damn sure wasn't. She threw down for that whole 90 seconds that that fight lasted. And she landed some good shots on Cyborg. Cyborg just has a very good chin and Chenade could not take the return fire. But that fight is exactly what you want in this kind of scenario. She is a spectacle. Let's enjoy the spectacle. And if that spectacle means she's getting Kat Zangano next, hell yeah, let's do it.

Zingano is a name. She has been in a UFC title fight. People know her. She is a physical presence that, you know, can at least maybe be interesting in the fact that she is not anywhere near technically up to cyborgs level. but she is not going to be completely outclass in a physicality standpoint. So that is something because at some point in time, Cyborg will theoretically drop off. She's 36 years old and time comes for us all.

But until then, I'm happy to go watch her just clobber the hell out of people because it's awesome. And that's what we should want in the sport is watching the best, you know, some of the best in the world do their thing against the best contenders that you can find. And yes, a Kayla Harrison fight would be spectacular. I, if that happens, if that can happen, if Scott Koch can back up the money truck and Nate Kayla for one day just to make that fight, hell yeah, let's go for it. But if it doesn't, I'm still going to tune in to watch Sibor.

We're assuming I can find the channel because God knows where Belpour is. It's impossible to watch. They don't want you to be a fan of their product. I don't understand it, but so it goes. So, yeah, Katzegano is fine. Let's run that. All right. So to sort of build upon that, Jed.

Kayla Harrison was in attendance. She was there. Cage side, essentially. And let me just say this, because we spent some time kind of dumping on Bellator's broadcast last week. I'll give John McCarthy a little bit of credit. Him bringing up Kayla's name to Chris Seiborg

in the post-fight interview was very well done. There's a lot you could pick apart in regards to these broadcasts, But that was very smart. That was well done. You put the camera on Kayla. You made it a big deal. So credit words do. Kayla was there.

Scott Coker, I know for a fact. And this is well before the card last Friday. He looks at Kayla Harrison as a big time star. If Scott Coker could draft one fighter over right now, I don't know if Cale would be the number one, but she'd be in the top three. That's how highly regarded Scott Coker thinks of Kayla Harrison. So, Jen, Kayla Harrison is in a tremendous place in her career.

She could stay in the PFL for the rest of her life and make millions upon millions of dollars. She could take the PFL could take our advice from BTL roundtable a few weeks back, make this into a money promotion, make Kayla Harrison as interesting as possible. She lived the dream as good as she can do in the sport right now, making that millions. But Bellator does seem like a very interesting option. And if I'm Scott Coker, like you said, Jed, there is no limit. There is no number out of reach. There is no millions of dollars, no price I will not pay. if you can somehow make this happen,

you have to make it happen if you are Bellator. Jed, what are the chances this happens? If you had to make a little bit of a wager and how confident you are, would you bet $50 free dollars that Kayla Harrison fights for Bellator or that we never see it? Where would you put that money?

I would bet that she does not this upcoming year. I think she's going to stay with the PFL one more year because they got Julia Budd now. there that's a fight um it's free money like who turns down a free million dollars that's it's tough tough to turn that down and the cyborg fight doesn't go away i mean cyborg isn't losing there's nobody in bellatory's going to beat cyborg she's still going to be there next you know at the end of next year and then this can be built even more i think the optimal way to go forward because i agree it's the fight to make if it can happen and you just kind of do it but at the same time there's a vast

difference between fights that we as the hardcore people who are doing a podcast talk about and the general public getting behind something. We all salivated over Pitbull McKee. Like that was our everything. That was the best fight in Bellator's history on paper. The most captivating matchup they could ever put together. And nobody watched it because they're on a dog shit platform. And that's just a problem.

Like, they can't get views organically. And even with a star of Kayla Harrison's kind of caliber and a star, cyborch's caliber, I just don't know that that's going to do the traffic and the numbers that would really justify itself. I think what if I'm in control, if I'm Scott Coker, I would talk to Kayla Harrison and be like, look, if you want to go back to BFL, great. Do that for a year. Just only sign a three-fight deal for this season with them or whatever have you. Afterwards, we're going to pay you all the money that we have. have all of it. I'll go empty out my couch cushions to get whatever I need. And then we're

going to do it because we're going to spend the next year figuring out how to make our product interesting to the casual fan. We're going to get on a better platform than showtime. Nobody gives a shit about. We're going to find our way on the ESPN or network television some way so people can watch you take on Chris Cyborg because that is that's where we want to plan our flag. That's how we want to announce ourselves as a real product to every. everybody, not just to the people who go to mhmapfiting.com. That's what I think should happen. That's what I would do if I was in control of this.

But I mean, we'll see. Maybe they'll just try and strike now because one in the hand is better than 10 in the bush. Alex, what do you think? True or false? In 2022, Kayla Harrison fights Chris Seiborg. I think there is a 70 to 30% chance. I think a 70% chance that she does end up fighting the fight between Kayla Harrison. and cyborg, mainly because Kayla has talked about becoming a mom and how she has to consider money

and getting that million dollars in PFL is an easy route, but she's also an Olympian, the best judoka male or female. So she's the type of athlete who wants to be making these notions that she is the best of the best. And how do you do that? Is that just competing at PFL where there's not really any competition that will put your name up like that. I think it's the perfect time for Kayla Harrison to make the jump. She's already done two seasons at PFL. She's shown what she can do there. And I think I disagree that Showtime is a platform that people aren't going to be interested in doing,

especially with the way that boxing is going right now. You have so much with Canello going on and all these rising prospects, Terence Crawford and Sean Porter this weekend. And so with the boxing coming back to life a little bit more, and even with Jake Paul, there's more people that are interested in getting showtime. And when you get showtime, you get the boxing and Bellator. And so with me, this has been my biggest intro year into everything going on with Bellator. I think the production is so good there. So there's a lot of carrots to dangle in front of Kayla.

I don't know what the money situation is with Bellator and how they'll balance out the books. But at the end of the day, Scott Coker wants to be putting on fights where people can arguably say we had the best featherweight or best bantam weight in the world fight on our stage, on our platform, showtime, the premier platform. And I think that if she wants to make that jump, it would be the perfect time to do so. and her tenacity and will to become the best of the best, I think we'll push her to make that decision to making the jump to Bellatory because she's definitely not going to be belittled by Dana White, who sits there and says,

oh, well, she can do what she wants. We don't need her. He barely has any interest in keeping the featherweight division. So it's just like, I'm an Olympian judoka, and you want to kind of just push me aside like that. Plus the big fight to make there would be Amanda Nunes, which is her teammate at American Top Team. I think the best option is to go the Bellator route.

It'll, they can also take in Megan Anderson. We can get her some on-camera roles. Deney Harding is another great fighter in Bellator. So there's a lot to build in at Bellator with the woman female featherweights. So I think that's her best route. And I think there's a pretty high chance that it happens. We just have to see if the finances can come to fruition. What do you think about that, Jed?

you know, maybe Alex's Alex is saying that and listen, I understand in a way, but Strike Force, EliteXC, some of these other MMA promotions found success on Showtime. Boxing is finding success on Showtime right now.

For some reason, Bellator, you don't think that they're finding it. Sometimes you look at the numbers and streaming, you can't justify streaming numbers yet. You really can't. But do you think this is more of a Showtime problem or a Bellator problem? I mean, it's definitely more a Bellator problem than it is a Showtime problem. My only rebuttal is just like, sure, boxing is back and Canello Alvarez is going to draw numbers anywhere he freaking goes.

How'd Pipple McKee do? How'd that do? It didn't do great. It wasn't spectacular from a number standpoint. Like, if you're making a career decision by any metric outside of strictly sporting aspect, I want to challenge myself against better fighters, you just go back. back to the PFL at least for one more year. ESPN is a much wider platform to get noticed. The way you become like ASTAR is exactly what Kayla Harrison has done in her whole career.

You beat the hell out of people emphatically and you get on the mic and you say some stuff that gets people going. And she's doing- Real quick, real quick, real quick. They might not be on ESPN this year. Their TV deals up. They don't know yet. They haven't made a decision yet.

I mean, if they have an option, they're going to be back because that's just a better place to be unless somebody wants to roll out the money truck for maybe the second best promotion in MMA, probably number three. They should stay there, and if they stay there, it's the best choice to be in front of the widest number of people, build your brand, get a free million, it's easy work. That's just kind of where I think she should go and continue to develop her own star power because the cyborg fight's always there. It's always going to be there.

That's a back pocket fight. You can stamp on that. whenever it need be. Yeah. To just rebuttal the rebuttal, the numbers may not have been super, super high, but Scott Cogers, Stephen Espinoza understand that they're in these like building block stages. So no matter what, the Bellator Featherweight Grand Prix, you could have arguably said that there were the best feather weights there fighting.

And so when you even have that conversation, people want to see cross-promotional fights like, how would Max Holloway do against AJ McKee? How would Brian Ortega and their increases conversation and will in the long term get people to come to Belator because they're at least having the conversations of the best of the best. So yeah, the numbers might not have been there in that particular situation, but I think it's a growing process. And I think there was a lot of hype between at Bellator 263. The crowd was absolutely insane. streaming numbers, it's always hard to tell because people can get different illegal streams or whatever. But in terms of people knowing of the people in Bellator, I definitely saw an increase and

able to talk to all people on MMA Twitter. They tuned in for that one versus whatever was going on in UFC that weekend. It was the Bellator show for that weekend. And I think if you did take Kayla Harrison and Cyborg, it would have the same effect, completely putting the featherweight division in the UFC in the shadows, which it already is. Well, last thing on this, great win for Linda Vassell, great win for Aaron Pico, great win for Arlene Blanco, Steve Baueri and others. But I do want to mention Roman Ferraldo, flying knee finish over Robert Turnquist, just a nasty knockout. In my opinion, one of the best knockouts of the year.

Alex would say you, when you're doing your year-end awards for whatever you're doing it for, whatever show, all the podcast you're a part of, will this knockout be on your list? And if so, how high up will you have it? So when I was looking into this, I was taking into consideration the topology rankings, and they list out all 50 of their knockouts for 2021 so far. And I ranked it as around 39 being generous. It definitely breaks the top 50. But when you looked at who Roman Froldo did it against, it was against Rob Turnquist,

who's 38 years old. He has an 11-and-8 record. Yeah, it was a super cool knockout, but what set it up was the initial punch, which kind of days turn quest, and then he landed the flying knee. So I thought that kind of took away from how cool the flying knee was.

And I think when you look at a fighter like Alex Pereira, who did that on his UFC debut against a fighter of a bit of a higher caliber, that's what makes it, that's what would make Alex Paredes a bit higher. So I think this kind of is similar to when you think of Joaquin Buckley knocking out Ipikasonganii, the implications of that knockout weren't very high. So if you're ranking it only on the technical, like the hardness of landing a knockout like that, I think that it's an impressive flying knee. But when you look at who he did it against, it makes it less impressive. It's not as if there was a belt on the line. It's not as if this was like a huge fight where the implications are bigger. So I ranked it as like 39 out of 50, but definitely still on the list of great knockouts of 2021. Damn. Wow, harsh greater Alex Wendling. And this

is in a recency by a sport 39th. Jed, I'm curious. Are you, could you be lower than that? Are you rating it lower than that? Or is this, is this up there? Is this high? up in your conversation i mean i haven't done a a forensic detail on where this ranks in the top 50 uh so good for you that you have 39 of them that is stunning work a dub's really good work a dub but yeah uh i i actually echo a ton of what she said um every every week on mhmap fighting com greatest website in the world i author a column with a k lee a terrible charlatan of a writer where we cover the best highlights from the regional circuit of MMA. And you read that thing.

It's called Miss Fist. You should read every Friday. It's fantastic. And on a weekly basis, somebody does something dope as hell. And, you know, it's a flying knee.

It's a spinning cartwheel kick or something else. And those knockouts never make it into the top five, top 10 for best of the year because it does matter. The stakes matter. It matters who you are knocking out. The aesthetics matter. And on a lot of those categories, tremendous, tremendous knockout is one of the most beautiful ones you'll see from a pure aesthetic standpoint. But it's over a guy who doesn't have a Wikipedia page and it doesn't launch anybody anywhere.

If you want to argue that that's a top five knockout, I'm content with it. It's entirely subjective. But for me, I want it to be both aesthetically pleasing, incredibly violent and matter. You know, it needs to have kind of all of those three going in. And for me, it just doesn't, it doesn't have one of those factors in a really substantial way. I think, you know, I haven't gotten down to the nitty gritty of it as we come to our year-end rewards. I think I'm probably still on Usman Mosvidal because Mosvidal doesn't get knocked out. He doesn't get knocked out like that.

And that is, you know, that more than anything is the punch that made people think, Kamar Ushman is better than George St. Pierre, which is ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. But still, like, that mattered in a lot of ways. So I think that's still my number one. But hell, I'm not willing to say, Chris Barnett and his mental 170-pounder throwing a spinning hook kick and getting a K-O a heavyweight. I'm not willing to say that's not the best knockout of the year because I've never seen

that before. Like Iepa Kisagne getting obliterated by the ninja kick, I've never seen that in my life. And if you do something I have never seen at all, then we can start having the conversation how much it matters that, you know, maybe it wasn't a win that is huge for you or your career. Just damn, that's dope. And so maybe Chris Barnett's going to snake in there

because that was incredibly awesome what he did. It was indeed. We got one more Bellator event coming up in December, Bellator 272. Sergio Pettis versus Kioji Horaguchi for the Bannamway title. The dog is excited about. that fight. I am excited about that fight. Hopefully, Bellator can send a jolt into their product and presentation. I mean, I think that's the biggest part because it really needs a jolt. I will say,

I thought Amanda Garrett did a great job on the desk. I thought she brought a nice energy to the table. I thought she did great. So I hope she sticks around. And that was a nice little addition. I think there's some facelifts that need to happen and a lot of other roles. But that's a conversation for another time. We moved to round four. Point for this round goes to Jed, this. suit is just making you money right now. Two to one. Two to one. Black Friday is here at IKEA and the clock is taking on savings you won't want to miss.

Join IKEA family for free today and unlock deals on everything from holiday must-haves to cozy at-home essentials. All the little and big things you need to make this season shine. But don't wait. Like leftovers at midnight, our Black Friday offers won't last. Shop now at IKEA.ca.ca. slash Black Friday. Ikea. Bring home to life.

We know you love the thought of a vacation to Europe, but this time, why not look a little further? To Dubai, a city that everyone talks about and has absolutely everything you could want from a vacation destination. From world-class hotels, record-breaking skyscrapers, and epic desert adventures,

to museums that showcase the future, not just the past. Choose from 14 flights per week between Canada and Dubai. Book on emirates.ca today. As we head to the final round of regulation this Saturday, the UFC is back again. Then they take a little breather for Thanksgiving.

We've got Misha Tate versus Ketland Vietta in the main event. Tate's second fight since the return. She, of course, finished the now-retired Marion Rennon, back in July in her first fight in almost five years. Now she gets Caitlin Vieira, headline spot, Jedmishu. What is that stake here for these ladies? Is a title shot on the line? Is there a certain step?

winner takes. It sure seems like all the pressures on Misha Tate here while Vieira is playing with some house money. Do you agree with that? So look, Mike, when you sent me these questions yesterday, when you send us the questions, I want to tell you just how focused I am to get my way back, back to the top, back to take on that charlatan of a champion that we nominally have. I wrote about this very topic this morning specifically because I was like, this is the thing I feel the least confident talking about. Let's dive in. Let's do a deep dive.

Let's write about it for my moneyfinding.com. Greatest website in the world. Go read my words there. And here's what to say. It's a title shot. Misha Tate is going to get a title shop because I'm going to blow your mind. I don't know if anybody has read my article and all of its genius. I don't know if you just happen to know this.

But I'm going to tell you something that's going to shock into Paul view. Of all of the women in the UFC's rankings, the top 15, of all of the women in the top 10 of their rankings, excluding the champion Amanda Nunes, one, one fighter has more than one win in a row. Only one fighter in the top 10 is currently back-to-back wins. And that is Raquel Pennington, who's like nine or 10 in their rankings.

It is a death morass of tragedy at 135 right now. The division is not having people fight almost ever. When they're supposed to fight, they miss weight like Aspen Ladin and they got to go up. It's just a whole big problem. And so if Misha Tate comes in and she wins, she will officially be on a tie for the longest winning streak amongst top 10 ranked fighters in the division. She is a huge name, former champion, arguably the biggest name in the division, even over Amanda Nunes, as far as broader appeal, people who know her, they know who Misha Tate is. And that alone, a win alone may just get her a title fight against where I'm assuming everybody believes that Nunes is going to beat Julianne Pena next month because she will. And so that's a marketable story.

And that's what Tate said. Tate said yesterday, you know, hey, I think a dominant performance gets me in the title shot. I don't even think a dominant performance. I think just a good, solid win, a non-controversial W, five rounds. I think she gets a title fight. So yeah, for Caitlin Vieira, she's not getting a title fight with the win. She's coming off a little tough streak here. But this is, like I said, maybe the biggest fighter in the division.

You can't ask for a better, more marquey win to put on your resume to stake a claim for a number one contenders. Because 135's wide open. Two wins will get you in there with Nunes. So anything can happen. But if Tate wins, she's getting a title fight. And if Viera wins, I think she's getting a number one. contender match. What do you think, Alex? You agree with that? What's it, what's at stake here on Saturday? I agree that Misha Tate is just such an emblem of women's MMA and the UFC. So I think if she

does win, it'll definitely be talks of her getting the title shot. It'll be interesting because she coached Giuliana Pena on the ultimate fighter. So, but to see her fight Amanda Nunes so quickly, if assuming Amanda beats Juliana coming up, I wouldn't be mad if she did have another fight to kind of keep climbing up slowly before you get to Amanda Nunes. I think we're gonna have a lot of questions answered when Juliana and Amanda fight.

And I think like Judd said, this division, it's not super active. So I don't think it would hurt if we had some filler fights. We have Holly Holmes. she could potentially get a different fight. I think if Misha wins, it would be fun to see Jermaine and Misha win. Let's see if Misha get another win and then give her to feed her to the dragon. I think rushing it is a little risky.

I mean, she is the second person with the longest gap between UFC fight. The only person ahead of her is Nick Diaz, who is out for over 2,400, 27 days. Misha Tate 1,700 days. So I think she has shown so much progress. She has less than 13% body fat. She talks about that mind-body connection after having two kids. And I think she's doing everything she needs to do. And she has that championship mentality. The Misha Tate 2.0 is next level. But at the same time, it's Amanda Nunes. She has power that is just one power knockout. It's risky. I think that it wouldn't hurt to get another fight under her belt before seeing the champ,

assuming she does beat Giuliana Peña. Now, like last week, this is a sneaky good card on paper. There's some interesting matchups. There's some interesting storylines here, Alex. So what's the low-key banger on this card, Alex Wenling? Low-key fight, low-key storyline fighter. What do you have circled on this card that not a lot of people are talking about, but it's got you excited?

So the fight that got me excited, and I actually did the research for this correctly, because last time when I looked up, or when I thought of sleeper fights, I was like, oh, someone's going to sleep. And then I was like, oh, Edson Barbosa, like someone's going to sleep in that fight. And A.K. Lee was like, no, you moron, that's not a sleeper fight. And I was like, I cried myself to sleep. But anyway, I think the sleeper fight, he wasn't on the presser coming in. So I think, Terrence McKinney who just had that first round knockout in his debut. I think that's a sleeper fight against the 24 year old Fares. I think that one's super interesting because Fores has never been knocked out before. And you have Terrence McKinney who is on Dana White Contender Series got knocked out by flag knee. He battled through adversity and he came back, got the contract with the UFC. And now he's looking to make his name, be in the, be in the category of the Justin Gage's and the Michael Chandler's, all action. So I think people don't realize we could be seeing a knockout on the early prelims and Terrence McKinney could start to be making

his name. And when I interviewed him, he talked about how an interesting matchup would be him and Patty Pimblatt who also got a first round knockout. So we have all of these up-and-comers in the lightweight division. I think we need to be able to spice up those rankings a little bit too. So I think I think that's the sleeper. He has a lot. been getting a lot of media press so i think people don't realize we could be in for a treat yeah incredible story terence mcini has jett i'm looking at this card right now i had to double check because i'm looking obviously for the heavyweight fights and the highest weight division on this card is the co-main events between michael kiesa and sean brady at 170 pounds so

normally i can't predict where you're going with this this one without some heavyweight meat slapping around i can't i have no idea i've no idea we're going we didn't have middleweight chicanery going on we had nothing got nothing here but i got two i had two in preparation and one of them was terence mckinney it was actually my second choice because terence mckney is fun as hell to watch uh everything alec said is true i will also add in that mckney has never gone to a decision win or lose he's winning on he is winning spectacularly or losing on his shield uh that dude is fun as hell to watch and he is also very active on the twitter machine if you care to follow him. The reason that was my number two is because for Ossim, I don't know, I don't know that he is

the dance partner that will make this fun. There's really a possibility that he just tries to like ground and sit on McKinney for a while. So that could maybe be a banger or maybe not be a banger. But you know what's going to be a banger? It's the main card opener. And I know that main card makes you think that it's not low key. But let's be honest, this whole card is low key. Nobody cares about it. Nobody even cares about the main event if we're being, you know, if we're being real here. I've said it many times before. Just tune into M.MA fighting. You don't need to watch to spend time with your families this Saturday. But if you are going to watch one thing, I wouldn't make it the main event. I'd make it Davey Grant versus Adrian Yanez. That is, as we said,

Casey E. Casey Light, our steam producer, great guy, handsome man, believes the Bannamweight is the best division in the sport, and this is a Bannamweight banger. Let me give you some stats here. The last three fights of each men, all of them have yielded performance bonuses. For David Grant, two performance of the nights with back-to-vac sensational COs, and then a fight of the night in his last one, lost to Marlon Bera, but that was a hell of a scrap, if you remember it from earlier this year.

And for Adrian Yannas, three performance of the knights in a row inside the UFC, all head kick, two other KOs. These are dudes who are coming for each other's throats. They are both on heaters right now, and this is just going to be the definition of a bangor. If you want to say it's not low-key, I would argue the point, but there is no fight this weekend I would rather watch than this one right here. That is a tremendous fight.

I spoke with Adrian Yannas. You could check that out on the MMA fighting YouTube channel. It's not a sleeper, though. It's, yes, very confident young man, this Adrian Yonnas. Very confident young man. Feels like his boxing is already as good as Piotr Yons. He said pure boxing feels like he likes his chances against Piotrion. Best boxing the UFC according to Dustin Boyer.

That's right. And that's a great name to have supporting that. So, all right, regulation is in the books. We go to the judge's cards. The round number four goes to the one who actually gave a low-key banger. Alex Wendling.

It's two to two. Tied up. No one's talking about Yannas and Grant. That's like people want that fight more than the main event right now. You're right. Nobody's talking about it. No one's talking about this card.

This whole card is low-key bangers. I will not be little you like Kay did to me. He said. Absolutely garbage. Contesting. He said, Carl,

Moses is in a. sleeper. Can you just get off this show? I was like, A.K. Lee, I thought we were friends, bro. You walked into the road right now and asked 5,000 people who Davy Grant or Adrian Yanez is. You're getting the goose egg. Ain't nobody know them outside of MMA Twitter as a low key bank. 5,000 people. 5,000. If you don't go to an MMA gym, if you are not near an MMA gym when you conduct this experiment, I'm standing by it. All right. I'm going to put that to the test. I'm going to go to freaking softball tonight. I'm going to ask a bunch of people never talk about MMA ever. And I'm going to ask see if anyone knows Adrian Yonaziz. Please tell me the results. I'll be happy to be right.

Okay, fair enough. But that means we're going to go to the knock around. And this is going to be an interesting question because I have to bring this up. I feel I would be a terrible moderator and a terrible host and a terrible person trying to promote a combat sports championship. tournament without bringing up this event. So that's what we'll do. Each competitor will have one minute to answer their question. Once that is done, we will turn on over to the judge, the jury, the executive producer, probably the most powerful man in MMA media right now, Casey Leiden, who will render the final decision. So we had a random name generator, put both names in before he started. The name that was chosen was Alex Wendling. So Alex, you have the champion's prerogical. right now, you can decide if you want to go first or if you want to pass this on to Jed.

So you can either go out to a lead or you can play some catch up. What would you like to do? I will play some catch up. Okay. Jed Mishu. I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on this because while the UFC is taking a Thanksgiving break, there is one promotion out there. who is like, you know what, Thanksgiving break? We're not going to take a Thanksgiving break.

In fact, we're going to put on a mega event. We're going to do it at a stadium. And we're going to do something crazy that's never been done before. Triller, your good pals at Triller, are putting together triad combat, which is going to put MMA fighters against boxers in a triangular-shaped ring where they're trying to put rule sets of the two sports together for what they call, even playing field we got frank meir on the card representing m m m m m we got matt mitrione on the card representing m m m m we got mike perry we got derrick compost even even albert tuminoff one of the mysteries of

m m m people wondering where where albert tubinoff has been he's going to be fighting in arlington texas on this triller card against some former boxers uh there's some other names on here as well but this is a very interesting card and by the way metallica is going to be performing live at this at this event so thanksgiving weekend you got your plates full and you can watch this event so jed in one minute or less what is your interest in this event and two what are your thoughts on this event as a whole is there something here to this triad combat event from our friends at triller one minute on the clock your time starts now we adjust this as we prepare murder this question I'm in. Look, we talked about this on this show. I hated Triller. I hated Jake Paul Ben Ascreen. And then I went to the damn thing. And it's the most fun I've had in a sporting event in years. Not just a fight in a sporting event. It was ridiculous. It was a barnyard explosion of nonsense and Tom Foolery. And I was absolutely here for it. And now they are going all gas, no brakes, baby. They are taking off all the safety belts and crashing this thing into a wall. The triangle is a terrible idea.

It's going to be hilarious. It's going to be like four feet of viable fight surface. Because once you get back into the corner, you're not getting out. Frank Meir, who was at that first trailer, actually looked good as a boxer. I'm as shocked as you are that I'm saying it. But I'm in. Put Metallica on. Do all the nonsense and ridiculousness.

The more crazy we can make this thing the better, especially because there's not anything else going on that weekend. So tune in to that one with your families because it's fun for the whole family. it's fun for the whole family. Wow. All right. Some salesmanship right there. And you got to believe a man wearing a suit, right? Yes, you got to go to a fun triller event. I got to go to the unfortunate collapse of one of Vanderbholi Field,

which was sad and awful at the same time as heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. Never wanted to cry at an MA event, or a combat sports event. But that one, I was very close. So now, Alex, we turn it over to you. Triller's going all in here. triad combat. Any excitement for this event, your thoughts on it in general, the names that are on it,

what was your reaction, whatever you want to say about it one minute or less, your time starts now. In my personal opinion, I'm not super interested in it. I thought Triller's main goal was to get the younger demographic involved, which is why Jake Paul's boxing, it seems to get a lot of younger, the younger audience involved. So I thought it's interesting. Metallica is super cool, but I don't know who's that.

really is going to attract. I think people are they pick their poison with everything. People are into fight circus and bare-knuckle boxing. So there's an audience for everything. The triangle shape makes it really, really different. So I think that in general will get a few people to watch it, especially considering there's not much going on that weekend. But all in all, I think it's just going to be something that has its 15 minutes. if that, I don't even think it will be trending on Twitter. I don't think this one has as much build-up as any of the prior events. But the Jake Paul fight with Tommy Fury coming up,

I think that will kind of be a different celebrity boxing that pushes up the celebrity boxing clout again. By the way, I will be in Tampa, Florida for that Jake Paul versus Tommy Fury event. So be prepared. Be prepared. Maybe. Only if you were. wear a suit. If you don't wear a suit, you ain't coming, son. You better bring like six suits.

I'm wearing a t-shirt and jeans. You got to rock the suit. That's your gimmick now. I might go just because it'll be warm there at that time. Yes, that's right. And one thing I do want to bring up about the timing of this event and of this event in general. I actually think Triller's very smart with this event. One, because of the names they have on it. Two, because of just being unique and different. And three, this weekend in particular, you ain't going to attract young people. One of the why? because all the young people are going back home. They're going out drinking with their old high school buddies.

This is like the biggest party weekend of the year for some of those folks. You're not going to track them. None of those people are watching this card. You got to track the old lazy folks like myself. We're going to sit there and pile up turkey and gravy and mashed potatoes and cranberry sauce in between two pieces of toasted bread and just crush Thanksgiving leftovers and just watch silliness. Like this is what this card is geared towards. Okay.

So color me intrigued. Color me and treat. I just want to give my take on this. But now we've got to go to the most powerful man in MMA media right now. The man who's going to render the final decision, the man that is going to send one of these two tremendous competitors into the semifinals to face the winner of next week's Thanksgiving week battle between James Lynch and Kristen King as they battle it out for a third time.

Casey Leiden, we turn it out over to you. Who's moving on? Who wins the battle? First off, Mr. Heck, I love matchups like this. I love vets. Vets versus prospects. This is like the classic matchup. I love this. Did Alex have enough to take out Jed Mishu? You know what? She did not. Your winner, Jed Meshu.

Man, wow. Casey. How very Ryan Seacrest of you. Wow. I thought you're going to send us to commercial break before you've been to that decision. Well done. Jed Bishu, if you wore a suit and lost, what a disappointment that would have been, but you got it done, Jed. And now you know what that means. Not only do you move on to the next round to face the winner of James Lynch, who you've battled in this virtual arena before, as well as Kristen King. I don't know if you've scored off with Kristen before, maybe in a tag team style style situation. Now you get 30 seconds to wax poetically. You can say whatever you want. You want to talk to James. You want to talk to Kristen. You want to look past them?

and jump ahead to who you are hoping to face in the finals, but 30 seconds is however you want to use it, my friend. I'm looking straight past him because I got nothing to respect for A-dub, you know, and it's not her fault that she came into a buzzsaw, but that's what I am right now, because we know, we know for an absolute fact that Phoenix Carnivali is going to be in the final. She got the easiest road to the top. All she had to do is beat Jose Young's, a guy I have absolutely given the size,

nine to, I don't even know how many times. This man is not on my level. He's not on anybody's level. I don't know why he's on the show anymore. And then she gets A.K. Lee, the losingest player in the history of the show. Why not just make her in the tournament finals? You could have just done that, Mike. I am scrapping my way through young contenders, through, through prospects, and I'm one step closer to what I want, baby. And it's you, Carnivalet. You and me, you're going down this time. That was an excellent promo right there. Alex, tremendous stuff.

Excellent job. I know it's very tough facing the winningest player of all time. But what would you like to say to Jed and to the rest of the competitors? I mean, I was hoping that this was like a, he's GSP. I'm Matt Sarah, but it kind of ended up just being a Sean O'Malley, Chris Montino scenario. But you know what? I feel like I'm getting better and better every time. This is probably the most fun I've had.

So I hope to be back sometime soon. and I will be following along to see who wins this because I'm only getting better, you know? I'm like, I'm Ian Gary. I'm like making my debut, getting a few punches. I'm wearing the damage. But you know what? There's progress being made. This was not an O'Malley Mutino.

This was Holloway Rodriguez. Like that's what this was. A solid accounting of yourself. But just I'm on another level right now. I'm bringing class to the game and I'm coming for your head. of Oleg. Wow. I mean that that jet the kind words and the respect from one Jedmishu might be worth more than the win itself Alex. I mean this doesn't happen very often you you see how he feels about Jose Youngs and he shared many of round.

Jed is a winner around Jen is jet is a winner for a reason he picked Alex because much like when Mayweather fought Canello you get him young get get them when they're not ready you know because in couple years I'm telling you this lady she's going to be racking up those dubs. Thanks, Casey. We look forward to that. And by the way, by the way, know who the judge is and don't shit on Metallica and your final answer.

Come on. Come on. That's right. This is the next time. I'm going to have to do all the background research for that. You see what Jed did in his final answer? He fixed his tie right away. He knew exactly who was catering towards.

So with that, you know, you'll get better and you'll learn the intricacies of one Casey Latin. because you don't need to impress me because we know how this thing's all going to play out. You got to impress Casey in the final. So next week, we're clearly not doing this on Thanksgiving. So I think we're going to maybe shoot for Tuesday next week. James Lynch versus Kristen King, the final first round matchup. The winner moves on to face Jed Mushu.

And then all roads point to the undisputed BTL championship. The final four will be wrapped up next week. So until then, everybody. For Alex, for Jed, for Casey Liden on the ones in two. the iconic voice of Esther Lynn. I am Mike Hack. Thank you for watching. We'll see you next week on Between the Links.

Good night, everybody. This has been Between the Links. I'm Esther Lynn. Oh, yes, my voice. Thanks for watching. Esther Lynn, bye, this is me. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.