MMA Fighting - BTL | Ilia Topuria Teasing News, International Fight Week Options, UFC Kansas City

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

Even after a UFC-less weekend, the news cycle is buzzing about what could headline UFC 317 — the promotion's annual International Fight Week card in #LasVegas. With former featherweight champ Ilia Topuria teasing news, could he be involved in the main event, and if not, what could be the big fight on the card? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses that topic, how Topuria could be involved, and the UFC's conundrum with the event coming up in two months without a main event. Additionally, they'll discuss UFC Kansas City this Saturday headlined by Ian Machado Garry vs. Carlos Prates, the fight of the weekend between Eddie Hall and Mariusz Pudzianowski at KSW 105, Dricus du Plessis' statement about injury rumors, and much more. Host Mike Heck is joined by MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew for a special fan Q&A episode of the program to discuss the big amount of news in the sport. Follow Mike Heck: @mikeheck_jr Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. Thank you for being here. A lot going on. A lot of questions that need to be answered.

It's UFC Kansas City Fight Week, but more importantly, ladies and gentlemen, It is KSW 105 Fight Week, and most important, it's Marius Puginovsky versus Eddie Hall Fight Week. That fight coming up in around 48 hours time or so. We are excited. We hope you are as well, and we're going to discuss that. And whatever the hell else you want to talk about special Q&A edition of the program and joining me to answer what I assume will be brilliant questions

from our great listeners is the Hot Take Kid, Mr. No Gray Area, the climber of all climbers, the one and only, Meshu. Jedd, the 2025 MMA fighting promotional draft is live for the world to see how we feel and about it? I actually haven't looked at it this morning. So let me pull this up. It is live. We recorded yesterday.

I teased that on submission radio that we had a couple things coming out. This is the first. We have another thing dropping tomorrow. That will be dropping on the YouTube channel and on the homepage as well. How is it going? Let's take a look at where we're at on the old voting. In the poll, obviously, you're going to vote for myself. Let's take a gander.

Wow. Very competitive. It is. Easily the most competitive this has ever been. 100%. Damon with a slight lead, but this is easily the most competitive. This is our fourth year doing it. Damon has taken a slight lead.

But I mean, everybody is within not that many votes of each other. Easily the most competitive one. And that feels right. Because as we were prepping, as us, as we, as, as, we were doing it yesterday. It was just like, oh, the state of MMA. Kind of tough scenes right now. Certainly is.

I know A.K. is going to hate me saying this, but you should absolutely vote for Damon after this draft. He did GFL perfectly. If we're being honest, he actually, because he stuck with the GFL plan of what they're trying to accomplish, but he just did it way better than GFL actually did. and I think the first pick of the draft overall from him just set the table beautifully for the rest of it.

I have to say, Jed, I think thus far, and I know we're just a couple of hours into it, I got to give myself a pat on the back. I think this is the best the UFC is done in one of these drafts two and a half hours into the festivities. So happy people actually voted for me, but man,

it's tough being the UFC and having that position because you're just playing defense. You're basically a goaltender the entire. entire time. It is, UFC is always the handicapped one. The first year we did it, we realized pretty early that that was going to be the case because most people are going to steal UFC fighters. And every subsequent year, it is just the hardest seat to pick. You're picking last every round. And so that's also worse. And you're just, you're hemorrhaging talent. You did have the advantage this year of nobody really wants your champions right now. The UFC doesn't even really want

your champions right now. There were, I think we, I don't remember if this was on the show where we did it after the show. I believe four sitting UFC champions were drafted, but that includes both John Jones and Tom Aspinall and probably John's never fighting again. So like Magamenekelyev, Marab, Bilal, Pantosia, none of the women champions, like, just all your champions got to stay home.

Volkanowski, all your champs got to stay home. which is certainly the first year that's ever happened. So you're very competitive. You're in second place right now. And as more votes come in, as long as I don't finish last, that would be terrific. And I am currently just ahead of AK with PFL.

Yes. It's a fun draft. Go listen to it or you can read our thoughts. But I think you should probably listen to it and then go read the thoughts. I think that's probably the best way to go do it. So it's on the podcast network. The post is up on MAfighting.com. It's a lot of fun.

And speaking of it, have lots of fun. No sleeves this week for E. Casey Liden. He is joining us to bring the questions up to, there he is. He changed. Yeah. It was too busy. I was like, I don't know too busy. Keep it simple, you know. Still early here. So me. Breakfast. Man, I would absolutely destroy that meal on your shirt right now. Absolutely. I'm so hungry. All right. Yes, we got to eat.

I haven't eaten food today and I hit the gym and ran a 5K and I am famished right now. As soon as we are done, I'm going to get food. Yes, I am doing the same. So we at least can be fed with questions and we can feed the listeners with our knowledge, at least to the best of our ability, our takes. Casey, bring up the first question. Let's see what's on the people's minds right now. What we got here?

Mr. Josboza. Josephosa. What do Mike and Jed think of the rumors of DDP and his supposed injury? So I'll feel this one first and then you guys can kind of

jump on in this. So if you watched any of the WrestleMania watch parties we did, this was something that came up. I believe Sunday we discussed this because that's when everything started coming out. That's when sites were writing up reports from other people

without actually confirming any information about this. So, of course, when you see that happening, you have to get on the phone on fucking Easter Sunday to bug people about this situation. And everything we were told had nothing to do with any injuries or anything of that nature. It was just... And then let me just also say,

it's hard to write news based on something that wasn't a thing. Because the way it was written in certain, websites was this fight that was supposedly set for this date is now being postponed. That fight was never announced. Not only was it never announced, it was never a thing. Now, am I saying that this fight was never brought up or ever discussed for this certain date? No, because I'm sure it was at some point. But this was not like a circled on fight for anybody.

And the way it was kind of laid out was, cool, if you want to present this to us, like we'll entertain this. But there was no official offer for this fight. There's certainly no contract sign for this fight. And from what I understood and what I talked about on the WrestleMania Watch Party was this wasn't really a thing. And from what I was told, there were no confirmation of any injury whatsoever

from everybody that I talked to. The only thing I really got from this was DDP is going to fight this year. It's probably going to fight closer to the fall. That's all I got. And that's what I reported on the wrestling. WrestleMania Watch Party. We did a subsequent thing on Monday, I believe,

when DDP did the response to Hamzaa Tchamayev. What was overlooked in that article was be saying exactly that. So there was no confirmation of any sort of injury. DDP sort of laid out that the reports are a bunch of bullshit and that, hey, I'm going to fight. Just why are we talking about canceling or postponing a fight that never was? It was never set for that date. And that was our kind of conundrum on Sunday.

is like, do we even write this up? Because how can you write news about something that there was actually no news about? So that's where I'm coming from. That's the journalistic side of things. I expect DDP and Hamzaa Shamaia have to fight in the fall based on what I've talked to, but could they still just to fill up international fight week?

Because I'm sure we're going to get a shitload of questions about that. Could Hamzat fight somebody else for an interim belt? We'll see. But yeah, from what I was told, this was never really a thing. this was discussed a couple of times. There was no fight offers. There was no contracts. None of that.

And just basically read what DDP wrote on Instagram today. That's about the long and the short of it. But Jed, your thoughts on DDP and returning in the fall. And sometimes the media can be the worst enemy in all of this and just send things going crazy to the point where even fighters are commenting on things and they're putting social media posts out there about things that just aren't really a thing, if we're being honest. I mean, the lesson, Mike, as always, don't believe anything until you see it on MMAFighton.com.

Not myself, but you guys do great journalistic work about verifying things before we just say shit. I think this is fine. Like, it made sense for DDP Hamza to take place in a national fight week, but if there are reasons, for it to not. Even if those reasons are just, I don't want to, I already defended my belt once this year. I'd like to do it in the fall and have fun this summer or whatever the reason is.

Like that's a perfect. Maybe they're going to South Africa. Maybe they're going to South Africa. Who the hell knows? Probably unlikely, but it would be cool. Probably. It's certainly be cool. It's unlikely.

But, you know, there's whatever the reason is. Like, that fight was just us saying, oh, it would make a lot of sense as we're looking for a main event for international fight week. it's very international it's a great fight big star power like why wouldn't that make sense but nothing was ever booked so there's like this is kind of much ado about nothing but there's so much ado about the nothing that it became something with like just the sort of transparent nonsense from the fighters too of like ah we'll fight for an interim belts because we just we only

know how to do three things in this sport and it's demand a title for fight or move up a weight class. Like those are the only things as fighters we can do. And ask for a bonus. Because our brains got broken. And ask for a bonus. Exactly. So it's just like it became this whole thing.

Honestly, I pitched this yesterday on submission radio. And I think that it would be better if Drickis was actually hurt. Because then you could solve all the problems that they, UFC currently has. Because if Driggis is hurt, if Ballal beats Jack Della at 315 in two weeks or whatever that is, he could just come out and be like, hey, I've been trying to fight Hamzat for years. I'll go up. I'll fight him for an interim belt. I'll leave my belt. Islam can fight whoever Shavkat or whoever it is you pick at Welterweight for the welterweight belt. And then Ilya can

fight Charles for the lightweight belt. And that sort of ladder progression solves everything. DDP not being injured and ostensibly intending to defend his belt in the fall probably invalidates that. Although not necessarily, I'm old enough to remember when they gave Colby Covington an interim title shot and Tyrone Woodley defended his belt like three months later. So I guess it could still happen. This is again, as we said at the start,

don't trust any of this nonsense unless you see it on MEPFIN.com because we're good at our jobs. Or y'all are. That's not really my job. Yeah. So there you are. There you have it.

That's that. All right. Thanks, Mr. Boza. Thanks. Uh, super chat. Uh, $10 super chat for Matthew. Shut out, Matthew. With the UFC being a free speech company, allowing Bryce to say Hitler shiz,

how do you feel about them censoring Amanda's Bernie Sanders hat during her Hall of Fame induction video package at UFC 314? So the tough scenes, as the chat pointed out to Matthew, uh, unless he's talking about something that I don't know, I wasn't a Bernie hat, it was a Balenciaga hat that they taped over. Yeah. Which I'm still not really sure why they taped over a Blinciaga hat. That's just the style.

That's just the design of it. Oh, is it? Yeah, just Google. That's just the design of the Balenciaga hat? Yeah. Google Blancelago, whatever, say cap and tape. And you'll see a bunch of stuff on it from the official site. I'm going to Google it now.

Oh my God. It is. Also, it does in fact look like the Bernie logo, except for the fact that it ends with an A. Yeah. You know, obviously Bernie Sanders does not end with an A. So, like, that does kind of look like the Bernie logo that's taped over. Look, man, this old boomer take here, I don't get it.

Wouldn't be my choice of a tire for $400. But whatever makes you happy, I suppose. Yeah. I don't buy pre-ripped. I don't buy pre-ripped jeans either. It's a very old man take of me. that is baffling that that is like

how the hat comes to me but I'm not the most fashionable guy so okay yeah so the tape is just like I don't support this person okay

or is that it doesn't say Bernie it is the style of a Belenziaga hat oh okay fair all right like that's just it the Blenciaga tape hat cost 600

on this one particular website. All right. Okay. Well, there you have it. Appreciate that. Thank you, Casey. I had no idea. We should be charging $600 for a hat that you don't even know what it is because

it's taped over. Man, we could be making a killing. Yeah. I don't even have an MA fighting t-shirt yet, but that's a conversation for another day. Oh. Thank you, Matthew. There was a little sadness when you said that. You didn't just say it.

I felt there was a little. I kid, well, and they just didn't have anything like adults, large size. So, or XL. So that knocks me right out unless I want to wear like a Stevie Richard's belly shirt, but I'm not going to do that. So, yeah. Good work. Damn it, leave.

Yeah. Thank you, Matthew. Sorry, we couldn't. Yeah, it was, it's not a Bernie Sanders hat. I do get how you could think that though It does legit like the bee does look like a nerny logo B Yeah But if they're going to tape over they're going to tape over

They're not going to half tape over right Yeah Also fair Thank you Matthew Super chat from Slito So you know how can anyone justify what John is doing to Tom Purposefully wasting his prime When he has no intention to fight

And the UFC is just letting it happen How about you want you to talk about great journalism, Joe? Is there a better journalist in the sport right now than Shem? Jesus Christ, man. Talk about a guy who has lit this whole thing on fire in two days between saying, hey, guys, I'm obviously on the inside. Not only is John Jones versus Tom Aspinall, like, agreed to happen, but they've agreed

down to the date. And then 12 hours later, he's like, okay, this isn't happening. Tom's fighting Cyril gone for an interim belt? What the frig is going on here? And people eat this stuff up, man. They run with it like it's a thing. Because I saw it on social media. People were like, well, Chale said that John and Tom are fighting.

So get excited. And now he's fighting Cyril Gun. So that, Jed, just responds to that. And then just this whole John, Tom thing, since we're talking about this again. And the very, very small amount of credit I will give, if Chale did retract his statement functionally, like, oh, this was just wrong. So, you know, that is at least good practice. That's true.

The problem being, like, I don't know that Chale even believed it when he said it because he knew, like, oh, I can get headlines and people will click and pay attention to this statement. And then I can retract it a day later and get double the headlines. Like, it is, again, the number of things Chale has said over the years that are just like not true. Really beggars belief why people listen to that and adhere

to it with any sort of sense or knowledge. Like, Chaile just said stuff because Chale is a talking head and Chale does not seem to have any qualms about stretching the truth in his, like,

role as a media member. Like, I'll say stuff but I don't just like come on here and be like, hey guys, I heard from a friend of a friend that this is happening. Chale doesn't seem to care about doing it and sometimes he has been correct, but he has also often been incorrect or had to do this and retract almost immediately. Again, if it's not on our website and us saying it, not like Chale's Sonnen says, because we will cover that because people want to know, it's just not true. And this fight's

not going to happen. And Slito, to answer your question, I think you can justify it in two ways. One, you don't believe John is intentionally wasting Tom Asperol's time. You believe that you are one of that group of fans who think that there's real chance that this fight happens and John is just negotiating. And so, okay, you know, he doesn't have a responsibility to Tom in that regard. And so that's two. Or, and this is the way that I get less mad about it, though I do think that this is kind of booty, what's happening. Heavyweight is awful. And so while we kind of are wasting Tom.

Aspinol's prime. Like, if Tom fought as frequently as he wanted to, he would have beaten all the heavy weights already. And then what will we do? We'll just sit there and watch him like run it back four times. I don't know. It's a very silly situation. I desperately hope that this summer it will come to an end one way or the other.

Obviously, it would be cool if they fought. I do not think that's going to happen. I hope the UFC just strips John or he vacates and we can move on with our lives. The same way we should have done 18 months ago. Yeah, this is Habib retiring all over again. This is just holding out whatever glimmer of hope is remaining. And because again, I mean, I heard Ariel talk about this in a social clip that I saw. He's essentially saying like, look, I know everyone's talking about, well, John wants this and he wants FU money and wants certain demands and all of that nature.

And what Ariel has been reporting, and we haven't since confirmed this, but look, Ariel's not with us anymore. but Ariel's a very trusted source in this industry, much more than Shale P for being honest. So I feel this is something we can talk about. He's basically saying that if this fight doesn't happen, it's not because of the UFC. It's not a whole UFC has not offered John a bag or a more significant bag than he would offer most.

The way that Ariel is laying it out is that the reason this fight is not happening is because of John Jones. The UFC, at least from what he was told in the conversations, he's had is the UFC has met or at least fairly come close to what John is offering. Tom has asked for certain things as well and apparently they have given him close to what he wants as well. So it looks like they are putting forth the effort in order to make this fight happen. But as Jed and I have said, sure, there was, you know, jokes of ducking and Jed

started a trend and started a worldwide movement that chickens can't be goats and all that. And boy, did that thing catch on. But at the same token, one thing Jen and I have been very consistent about, we do not blame John Jones for this at all. Like, John should be a prize fighter. He should have went for the Alex Pereira fight. He should have pushed for all of this. It's not the fight we all wanted. But at the tail end of his career, the man is trying to make as much money as possible.

And the definition, at least to me, of being a prize fighter is get the biggest name with the least amount of risk that can make the most amount of money. And for John Jones, Alex Pereira was the guy. Not sure if that's still true after the Magamenekelai have lost, but that would still be a very, very big fight if it were to happen, not as big as it was maybe six months ago. But let's just be done with it. Like, let's make a decision. The one thing I will blame the UFC on is they have not set their own deadline yet.

And we need to sort of figure out this division. What is Tom going to do? This man should not have another interim title defense. So if he is going to fight zero, it should be for the belt like tom should be the champion the second that fight begins so i don't know it's all silly and if the ufc can pull this rabbit out of their hat i will put them over forever but i just don't see a world where this has happened where this happens i still blame the ufc um i am not privy to what i'm not privy to whatever knowledge arrow has um and they i'm not here to say that

that it's like he has no part in this because John does like, you know, like you can basically just off ask for an unreasonable price and negotiate yourself out of the fight. But at a very baseline level, John doesn't want to take this fight. I don't think that's in dispute. Like John, John does not want to fight Tom Aspinall. You have to incentivize him in the same way that I don't want to, I was going to say do my job, but I actually love my job. But like, I don't want.

to go eat a pile of shit. But there is a price at which I would eat a pile of shit. And that's the situation. And it's not on John to be like, hey, I know you guys really want to see me eat this pile of shit, but I have no interest in doing that. It's on the people who are the promoters to incentivize him to do so. And so unless he is asking for something so outlandish, a billion dollars and a 10% ownership stake in the UFC. I am not going to blame him. And at that point, I still wouldn't blame him

for not taking the fight. I would blame him exclusively for wasting our time because at that point, you could just say, I don't want to do it. I'm retired. It's on the UFC to make him an offer he can't refuse, at least thus far they have yet to do that. They need to strip him and we need to be done with this. It has been entirely too long to be beholden to John Jones. for whatever reason we are, let's move on. And if he does ultimately decide whatever the offer they did extend is worth it, then we can revisit it. But we just need to be done with this.

I blame the UFC. Moving on. And John. All right. Super chat from super semi-nobb. 70 czars. Whoa. It's a lot of coffee.

I saw over him at the zoo recently. I didn't want to bother him, so I kept to myself. But his presence was imposing. He's really lean now, but still massive. Have you seen any MMA fighters in the wild? I mean, that kind of not like out and about in life, like I've seen them at the gym or I've seen them at events, but not like just going around my day to day and being like, oh, I know that fighter from X, Y, I saw years ago when I was in South Florida I saw Nick Lentz at the mall. Oh, okay, good, great name drop.

The Carney. The Carney, just walking around. And then maybe a year ago, I saw Brian Ortega at the mall with his ex-girlfriend, Tracy Cortez. So I've seen him everywhere. And a couple years ago, I was down at Santa Monica Mall and I saw Gaygard Musassi just walking around with his brother. Was that a big day for you? That was a really big day.

We actually, we, we, we, we, we, we locked eyes and we like, yeah, we did lock eyes. We had a conversation. The other two guys, I just kind of let him go on. But Gayguard, I was like, oh, my God. Sir, I, did you tell him you were single-handedly responsible for him being like a top. four ranked middleweight for like a year after he probably should have just been out of the rankings entirely. It's been like, hey, you don't know this, but I have you ranked number three when everybody

else has you like 10. I told him he's not in the UFC. He doesn't. He doesn't. He doesn't. He doesn't count. Did you guys talk about Alexander Shobbly over some orange Julius? No.

In his greatness. Oh, man. Orange Julius. I haven't had an orange Julius. I'm not bringing it up. You guys brought it. I'm just joking. It's just something that's good.

But I'm glad I brought it up because now I appreciate it more. It's not stewing. It's not stewing inside of me anymore. I let it out and now I think it's funny. And I get it and I respect it. Did you go to the comment section at all on the video? Briefly, I did. Briefly, I did.

It's pretty good. You had supporters. There's a lot of support. There was a lot of support. So that's all. Thank you for all the super chats. Who else have I seen out in the wild? I ran the Tyron Woodley a few years back.

He was outside of a laundromat. On the phone call. He wasn't there. He was just on a phone call. Who else? I think if I'd run it. Man, you've seen a lot of fighters in the wild. I never see them.

I mean, I live in L.A. You know, it's just, I think it's true. Yeah. I mean, you're going to. The ones I see. The ones I see. I don't see in the wild. They're also like Atlanta people.

And I'll see them like at the gym. So that doesn't count. Thank you, Super Noob. All right. What else we got here? No. I'm not talking about John Jones. Is this a thing?

Have you heard anything on a Rovichon Malianjury? So I think this comes from like a Snapchat. with him on crutches or something. I don't have Snapchat, so I don't know, but that's just kind of what I've been seeing on social media. So I've heard nothing. And you would think if there is an injury, we're a month away from that card.

The UFC's going to have to, you know, say something pretty quick because that fight card is in a month. Yeah, I've just seen that it's a rumor. I would give it zero credence, both because like outside of it, It could just be patently false. It could be an intentional thing from O'Malley, too, to be like, oh, look, I'm injured, boss.

He's, like, weird like that. Just, I've heard nothing substantive about it. So I'm operating as if it's not true. Wait a minute. So wasn't his injury, didn't you have, like, a hip injury before the first fight? I believe he tore Labram in his hip. Yeah, that's what he said. Tort somebody's hip.

So couldn't that, would that put somebody on crutches? Is that just him posting an old photo of him on? crutches perhaps. Recovery might put you on crutches. I could see it. It could be that. Like, it could just be messing around. I have no idea. To the best of our knowledge, to the best of everything I've heard from him, he is in great shape and ready to go. So, yeah, we'll see. All right. Lays with Matt Chanel and Jimmy Flick both coming out of retirement for their matchup and intending to re-retire after. What exactly are the stakes here? Are they both coming out of retirement?

Is this true? Flick's been out of retirement. I knew Schnell was, but Flick's been out, right? Yeah. I knew Schnell had his like baby retirement. It doesn't even count as retirement. He retired five months ago or whatever. He retired after the, oh, who did he lose to?

He fought in September. Yeah. That was the damn draft. He did retire. Alessandro Costa got hurt like three days before that fight. and somebody stepped in and finished him. Cody Durden with Atlanta's own, baby. Cody Darden, yes.

Cody Dernan gets from Atlanta, but he's from Georgia. And both are saying they're going to like re-retire. I mean, Schnell, I'm not surprised. I haven't heard them both say they're going to re-retire, but okay. But Flick, I don't know, man. Flick was on like a good run. And then he was just like, all right, I'm done. He just showed up at a regional show and retired.

I was like, what? It was weird. How? Yeah, and then like, then he comes, then he just randomly comes back. Coincidentally, I did. not realize this until this exact moment looking this up. Do you know who Flick retired after beating? Cody Darden. Cody Tote retired both of these men.

Did not realize this until I looked at. I was like, who was that? Oh, he triangle choke Cody Durdin and then was like, I'm done and then came back three years later. I think that was, it's not weird as shit. It's not to a level of Suhudo. It's not to a level of Suhudo retiring, but boy, man, that was a super weird retirement. That just like came out of nowhere. He was, he was cruising, man. The UFC was pushing him. They were giving him a lot of fights.

They were putting him over. There were highlight packages for Jimmy Flick before all of his fights because he had like such a great contender series fight. And then he has his UFC debut freaking flying triangles a dude and he's like, all right, I'm out. What? It was so weird. And then he comes back three years later and loses to Charles Johnson.

So, yeah, bizarre. What a weird career for Jimmy Flick. Yeah, it sounds like just life got in a way that he couldn't just commit to it, you know, and then life got normal again or whatever. Yeah. Well, we broke that news that he was coming back. And then we did the first interview with him after coming back, which was like a very emotional interview because he was talking about his dad and basically like,

rekindling his relationship with his dad. It was a thing. Yeah. And that sort of inspired him to come back. And I think his dad actually cornered him in his comeback fight, which was, you know, and then he said he's going to write a book and talk about the trials and tribulations of his life. So yeah, it's just a crazy story. So we wish them both the best of luck in the fight and in their futures if they decide to call it a career.

But to answer the question, what exactly is at stake? I just think someone getting two checks versus one check. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. Because they're not fighting. Oh, yeah, they are fighting each other. Yeah.

But they're fighting two different dudes. Yeah. It's just kind of funny, too. Hey, but just Kansas City, Kansas City just, this is a social media moment for the UFC. For the second straight trip to Kansas City, uh, double retirement. Because then that happened with, uh, Zach Cummings and Ed Herman, they fought. I was there for that.

Well, they didn't plan it, but it just. happened. It was like, yeah, I'm just going to be done. Like, okay. Yeah. Get your, get your before and after graphics ready of the double retirements because it's going be a thing potentially. It's very progress. I forgot that entirely. Loser. Luser leaves town. Luser retires. Yeah. I love that. Kansas City just makes people want to be done. Anthony Smith's retiring. Something about the state of Missouri that's like, we got to get out of here. Oh, man. Yeah, lots of retirements happen. sisters in Kansas City don't come from me, Midwesterners.

Yeah, I saw a wrestling match. Lovely town. It's a lovely town. I saw a wrestling match where this weekend, or last weekend, where at GCW, where it was loser, retires. He's versus a lucha guy. And the lucha wrestler, if he loses, he had to unmask himself. So the lucha guy lost and he unmasked himself.

And it turns out he was very handsome. And then the whole crowd chanted, you look good. You look good. Yeah, that's fun. That's fun. Yeah. Thank you, lazy. Let's talk more about this weekend.

Will the UFC put Anthony Smith in the Hall of Fame after his KFC fight? Or KFC fight, KFC fight, KFC fight. KFC fight, nice. Are we saying like, is this question saying immediately, hey, by the way, Anthony, we got something just for you. Because they're going to play a sort of video package for him without a doubt. a video package. I don't think they're going to just not.

He's never going in the Hall of Fame. Really? You don't think he will? Not at all. He doesn't have any fights that are really worth it. He never was a champion. There are like three non-champions in the UFC Hall of Fame. And it's like Donald Seroni who had a bunch of records when he retired,

although he's coming back or whatever. But like, you know, had all that. Stefan Bonner who is just he's in for the one reason he's in the Hall of Fame for trying to think like who and Uriah Fabor who's never a UFC champion but was a WEC champion. I think that is the full list of people in the Hall of Fame

outside of getting in for a fight that aren't champions. Anthony Smith's not making it in the Hall of Fame and frankly you shouldn't. Great career. Rock solid. Every sport has dudes like Anthony Smith who had good careers were meaningful participants in the sport

they contribute to the broad tapestry of MMA, but they're just not Hall of Famers. Nathan Smith ain't one of them. I'm not ruling it out. I don't think he gets in like tomorrow or Saturday, but it would not shock me if like three years from now. Fourth ballot, fourth ballot,

Hall of Famer. Yeah. I mean, this is not like, we have to remember what this is. This is just like, hey, these are,

I mean, obviously there's great fighters in there, but it's also, hey, we really like this person. And he's done a, a lot for us. So let's just throw him in the Hall of Fame.

Who cares? That could happen. Technically, Vanderley-Silva also qualifies because he was not a U.S. champion, but he was a pride champion. I'll be pretty surprised if Anthony Smith gets in, unless, like, in 20 years he gets in as a total contributor because he's a commentary, like, he gets into commentary and on the analyst desk for 20 years. Like, if we're putting Anthony Smith in the Hall of Fame, the Hall of Fame, the Hall of Fame

is meaningless. Like it's he's just not good guy, solid career. He is not a Hall of Famer by any reasonable definition of it. Yeah, it's like someone in Major League's making the All-Star team three times, but over 15 years, I guess. Yeah. You know, just, you know, like if he, I wouldn't, I wouldn't put him in, but I would not be surprised if the UFC did.

So I'm not going to rule it out. Yeah. I'm trying to think of like another sport. They would hang his, they would retire his number for that team. Yeah. That type of thing. It's like, I'm not even sure that's true. Well, it be as like, I guess like he gets, he might get inducted into the ring of honor or whatever. Like here's a guy who meant a lot to our thing, but I just.

You can't compare, but you can't compare the UFC Hall of Fame to the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame. Well, I'm just trying. Compared to the WWE Hall of Fame. Like that's honestly, we're the only thing you can compare it to. Because they choose, they basically. I have no knowledge of that at all. I don't think you'll get that. They essentially, yeah, because I mean, like, look,

Michelle McCool is in the WWE Hall of Fame. Fine, wrestler, I guess, but come on. We know why she's in because she's Undertaker's wife. Probably, but it was at a time where women's wrestling was not treated with the same regard that it is today. So, yeah, like, we don't look at, there are others who should be in before her. Having said that, Dominic Cruz should go in, well before Anthony Smith goes in.

But what I'm saying is... That's on question. What I'm saying is, this is not an overall merit-based Hall of Fame. This is not the mixed martial arts Federation of the World Hall of Fame. This is the UFC Hall of Fame, and they can put in anybody they want.

WWE, Triple H put himself in. Put himself in to headline WrestleMania and made the weekend mostly about him. Very funny. Deeply funny. He did also, I know nothing about wrestling, and I know that Triple H deserves to be in their Hall of, fame. If it happens, I will laugh and think it's terrible. I'm trying to think of like a

comp and other sport that it would roughly be like just that everybody would like broadly know. Just like trying to think of like who's a football player who because like I want to be like Philip Rivers, but Philip Rivers is a much better career than Anthony Smith had. You can't really, that doesn't really work as a cop. Derek Carr, if Derek Carr got inducted into the NFL Hall of Fame, like that to me is what Anthony Smith, this is not to disrespect Anthony Smith. If it happens, we could talk about it. I think it'll be really, really wild.

It's like, what fight could he even get in for? He gets in the, he gets in the, because he let John Jones become champion. It was his to have. That's probably the answer. honestly his generosity and martial artsness allow John Jones Bushito spirit

The Bushito spirit That's what we call it But also I think You know I think one of the most memorable performances Is the Hector Lombard fight Because he can't beat the hell of him that night It was like talking shit to him the whole time

And it was just like you know my name now Hector Huh? You know my name now? That was fun I think that that does raise a totally separate issue that I would like to officially lobby for here for the first time, I think the first time I've ever done this on camera. UFC, I'd like you to pay attention to me for a brief moment.

Broadly speaking, I have no issues with the Hall of Fame. You know, like we could quibble about who's in or whatever, but I think you're mostly doing things right. You're missing a massive piece to it, and it's this. Yes, fights should be inducted. Individual performances or finishes knockout submissions should have their own wing the same way fights do. Because there's no reason that Cub Swanson duo Troy is in the UFC Hall of Fame. And Gabe Gonzaga's head kick of Mirko Krokop is not.

That the flying mighty whiz bar from Demetrius Johnson is not in the Hall of Fame. That the Hindo punch on Michael Bisping, you 100% need to. Every year, induct a fight and induct a performance finish, however you want to quantify, qualify it. Because there are so many amazing ones that in your Hall of Fame are basically just treated as nothing. Like, Jaiy Rodriguez is literal last second back up elbow against Korean zombie. Like, how is that not Hall of Fame worth it? It's amazing. So many of these things should be.

And you guys really, it's a huge oversight. for you. You should fix that. I love this idea. Holly Holmes head kick of Rhonda Rousey. Yeah. That could be the first one. It could be the first one you put in. Yeah. I love this. Like there are just so many individual moments like knockouts and they award fight of the night and performance. Why would you not treat that the same and just do fights that we remember? because frankly, fights they remember are great. People remember the individual spots

even more than they remember great fights. Like the Diego Sanchez fight that's in the Hall of Fame. Like some people remember that and the fight is terrific. I'm not here to say it's not. But like, there's not a human being alive who doesn't remember Leon Edwards' headkick of Kumar Usman. Like those things need to be honored

and you guys should do that immediately. I love this. I love this idea. Well done. Thanks. I've been thinking about that one for a high. minute. Hey, we could just do that for ourselves.

We could. MMA fighting moments Hall of Fame. And then UFC will just take it, but at least we could do it first. We can contribute. Is Julia Pinia, a Hall of Famer? Real quick. She will be. She will be.

Yeah. Okay. She's a two-time champion. She's going in. Okay. If you're a two-time champion, you're just like, that's a free pass. Yeah. We could debate if that.

is how it should be, but it is 100% going to happen. Yeah. Super chat. Ooh, $20 super chat. Ah, so much, so much ice coffee. I know. When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list?

Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. It's just $39.99. How could I resist? This luxurious will throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my daughter? My niece? Leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for

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Free beer, wine, and snacks. Sweet! Fast free Wi-Fi means I can make dinner reservations before we land. And with live TV, I'm not missing game. It's kind of like I'm already on vacation. Nice. Air Canada. Nice travels. Wi-Fi available to aeroplime members on equip flights sponsored by Bell. Conditions apply. See air Canada.com. Tanvir, my man, might be an unpopular opinion. It's not, by the way. I've actually been

enjoying the PFL tournament. The Edwards Rabidana finishes were great. Between the Uspen Hughes fight in the tournament is PFL low-key having a solid 20-20. 25. So yes, all three of these tournament cards have been great. Like, they really have been fun watches. I finally went back and watched the second one. It was like six days after. It was a good one. Just not anything. Main event was bad. But the rest of that car was quite good. Yeah. And last week's card was very good too. Move good. There were a lot of big finishes, a lot of big moments. Pacing doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. We were wrapped and packed by like before 10 o'clock last. week of member researchers correctly, which is awesome. That's how it should be with all these

PFL cards. But Jed, how would you grade PFL's 2025 so far? We start with Usen Hughes, which is one of the best fights of the year, certainly. But we also have to take into account, yes, events are great. And the ratings, from what I understand, have not been that spectacular, but that's okay. We didn't expect them to be. But been kind of a PR nightmare for PFL as well. to take that into account. So how do we grade 2025 for PFL this far? So see, I want to make sure we give them credit for the good things because they deserve that. And we have asked them to do these things for a long time. And they are doing a lot of the things we have called for, right? Like they got rid of the season format, swap to a traditional tournament grand prix structure, paying dividends already.

It's better. Everybody is on board that this is better. Right. The pacing absolutely. has picked up. There is, I personally thought that the Smart Cage stuff was very silly and fun. Nobody else really liked it. They have mostly stripped that out of the broadcast to make it a cleaner, better looking thing. All of this deserves credit. Their events have been better. Legitimately, the tournament series has been good. I have enjoyed the ones they have watched, but they still, the problem is when you are number two, you can't be good. You have to be great because you are fighting in massively uphill battle, and you can't have the foibles and the missteps have had.

And there are two really, really big problems with PFL right now. The first, they are a PR nightmare this year. All of the actual best fighters they have under contract are in quiet or open revolt because of how they have been treated. And instead of solving these problems quietly or publicly, in a clean way of, hey, you guys don't want to be here? That's okay. Aaron Pico didn't want to be here.

We let them go. You just contact us. Let us know you don't want to be here. We'll release you. Don Davis is out here tweeting about people fighting with their opportunity. We want people who want opportunities or whatever the dumb shit he said. It has been a PR disaster for them. That is a huge negative, especially when like the reason Bellator existed for as long as it did,

like one of the very biggest reasons. is they were fighter-friendly. Fighters wanted to compete there because they got paid well. They knew they were going to compete once to twice a year, and they weren't dragged in public. None of this is really lining up for PFL. That's really bad for them long-term. Short-term and long-term, the other part of this that has been a total nightmare,

I don't know why I have to explain this to you, PFL, and I mean this, you understand the best of the best of the best of the best of, this comes from a place of love that I want you to succeed. This should be common sense. This should not take me telling you that you're being idiots. You cannot run your promotion at different times and different days week over week. That is not how you build consistency in a brand. CBS doesn't run Survivor on Tuesdays at 10 and then next week it's Wednesday at 3.

And then the week after, it's Friday, too. It runs Survivor every fucking Thursday at 8 p.m. That is how that show has existed for 50 seasons. You cannot, this week we are, especially when you're doing it in the same venue in Florida, and that's a whole separate issue. This week, it's Thursday as starts at 9. And next week, it's Friday, and the main card starts at 11. And the week after it's Friday and it starts at 6.

that is killing you because consistency is the only thing you have to hang your hat on because a damn sure a promotion you're not nobody's tuning in no one knows it's happening until it is happening you have got i don't care what you have to do beg borrow steel you get a time slot and you live in that fucking time slot for every event of your whole season this is genuinely common sense that a third grader would have. And the fact that y'all aren't doing it is brutal. It is so bad for you. And then we could talk a whole host of other stuff.

But like those are the biggest issues that they are having. And so I want to give you credit for your positives because you are making progress in some areas. But like these are just easy to avoid missteps that you are walking headlong into. and it's killing you this year. It's a C plus. It's a C plus. The events have been great. As a promotion, they've been awful.

Like, they have been awful. The fighters have been fantastic. But as a promotion, they've been awful. They have, like, it took Dakota Ditcheva to do an interview with Mike Bond for them to be like, oh, shit, we need to book Dakota Dichiva a fight. That's insane. Like, that is ridiculous. And then they go on the broadcast and Dakota's like, well, turns out, now I can be

happy because I'm fighting in June. By the way, that's still insane. Why is she fighting in June? No fight being announced. Have her fight anyone. Have her fight literally any standing human being. Dakota Ditcha is one of the good things you have going.

You don't need to have her do big fights. Take a lesson from pride. Pride did many bad things promotionally. Namely, they got in bed with the Yakuza. And that was probably really bad for them and sort of the way they handle it. You don't have to do that. But like, okay, there's not an. obvious fade or fight.

We will book him against Zuluzino. Who gives this shit? People just want to watch Fador do stuff and they can, he can beat the shit out of some dude. Like, you can just do that. It is, if I, outside of the two things I mentioned to you as huge problems, if I could give you one piece of advice, PFL. I genuinely almost did a whole video on this this week, or last week, because we had nothing going on, I was furious.

I was watching, I've been trying to learn about pro wrestling guys. you guys are trying to indoctrinate me and i don't think it's ticking but i do find the subject matter really fascinating right um and i was there's some interview with the dude who ran the wcw when they were fighting yes that guy um and he was talking about like his approach to it was i'm just going to do everything different than what they're doing because i don't want to just be bad version of them so they have a tape show I'm going to go live like that's what you should be doing

you should be you can't just be bad UFC and so UFC doesn't do tournaments we do tournaments UFC does 20 shows a year in the apex we're not going to do all our shows in a small gymnasium in Universal Studios Florida we're going to do our shows

in a place with an active live crowd right like oh UFC doesn't allow soccer kicks or however you like because one championship got to bring their rule set oh they can't do that we're going to do this take those pieces of things that the ufc can't or won't do and make them features of your promotion as another reason for people to be interested in you and you were not doing that like oh the uc doesn't you know what the uc doesn't have right now a compelling female fighter you have one and she's not fucking fighting you got don't get what we're doing this is not hard

She's going to be in the UFC by this time next year anyway. So at least I mean, I don't know what her contract situation looks like. But I know she's there for another year because she won the tournament last year. And that's kind of how it's laid out. But she's obviously not in this tournament. By the way, shout out to Don Davis. No, no, no, no, no. Read our draft.

Breaking. Breaking news. Breaking news. Oh, there it is. Loves the mock draft. Nice job by AK. It doesn't like the Rueger. Breaking news.

And, yeah, we picked Paul Hughes, Cedric Dumbade and Dakota Dichva. It's a pretty significant name. He's missing from that list. Maybe, you know, the face of their company. So interesting to be left up. Or was Ngano a second round pick? He might have been second rounder. I think he was.

So there you go. But hey, look, year four. Dakota Dichiva is. is, yeah, Dakota Dichiva is, she's a star, man. Like, she can be a massive star in this sport. She's got it all, man. She's got it all. And at this point, retain her services.

Just prize fight her the shit out of her. Just pay her a bunch of money to fight anybody and just do it. Make her an attraction at this point. And if you do a champion series card or whatever, like, check her on there, man. Like, have her fight in February and then do the championship series in June. And then have her fight again in August in a squash match. And then if you do a card in October in Saudi, throw her on there. Like, you could book her four fights a year very easily.

Book her four fights. An advertiser has like the wealthiest female, uh, MMA price fighter. Like she is like, you know, I don't know something like somebody edge like, yeah, I may not be fighting the best, but I'm making bank, you know, so I don't know. Something. He's got to be. I don't think you should say I'm not fighting the best. I don't think that should be your way.

But like, look. I mean, she does. But everyone knows, you know. I don't want to tease the thing that's dropping tomorrow. Look, there's just, you can just have fun with Dakota Dichita, right? Like the reason pride stars were as big as they were, they were more pro wrestling about it. It wasn't, we are just going to match up. You are not the UFC where you have all the talent in the world.

And so you can just smash the best dudes against each other and see the cream that rise to the top. You've got a set number of stars. to develop them the way pro wrestling does enhancement talent is a useful thing to have and so you don't want to exclusively do that right you don't want to have to code a ditch of a only fight cans but like mixing in some cans and then good fights that's how fador you know fought zulu zino and then fought crow cop actually that was actually inverted but like crow cop head kicked dos carus junior aka alberto Del Rio and then fought big gnaug. Like you can do these things with her and there's no reason she is not fighting three times

a year and not always against the best people. Just like somebody who can sell the fight for any number of reasons. Get her in there. Let her showcase what she can do. Let people get excited about her. And then there's a big fight against Liz Karmouche or whatever it is. This is, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You just got to actually execute pretty obvious plays here.

PFL needs to change the F and PFL to fun. Professional fun. I have argued for at least six months to hire me as minister of fun. And I promise you I will make that promotion something people care about. Yeah. They were like, you know what that we should do instead? Let's hire Jonathan Coachwin to be the face of the organization. Let's take Don Davis completely out of it.

Let's bring in Coach, who, you know, shout out to Coach. Dude's hustling out there. But I just, I don't understand the moves they're making. I really don't. By the way, Gadsie Rabadanov, also not mentioned in that tweet. No,

Godzi was not. No Godzie. You are 100% either. I forgot about Godzi too, though. And great fighter. Great fighter. Dude, have a little fun. Like,

KSW isn't doing Eddie Hall versus Berries Puginovsky every card, but they're doing it once in a while. And that's okay. Because what they're doing is, they're putting it in a time. PFL is a travesty. PFL should have paid the price

for the fight. By the way, I talked to their CEO today. I talked to Martin Lewandowski today for a little bit about this fight and putting it all together, which is awesome. And I put him over as the Booker of the Year. I think it's over and done with. He should win immediately. The second that fight begins, he should win. So Fighters Only Awards, Booker of the Year, it's not Data White.

It is that man, 100%. From what I understand, a little bit of news. That is not the last we're going to see of Eddie Hall fighting for KSW. So something to put out. there. Malo Oudowski is really good at his job. He is very good at his job. He understands.

He's extremely good at his job. He gets it. And I also brought up the three-step plan here. One is signing Eddie Hall. Two is doing Eddie Hall versus Pooge. And three is you do the winner of this fight versus Francis in a cross-promotional fight with PFL. Because even though Francis would probably kill either one of them, you could still have fun with it. And exactly.

And of the actual fights, realistically, that Francis and Gano could have right the second, there is nothing bigger than him fighting Pooge or Eddie Hall right now. It ain't Vadim Nemcoff. I tell you that. It's not Ryan Bader. He ain't fighting John Jones. He ain't fighting Tom Aspidol.

He has no options right now. He truly doesn't. That's like big and it's like, oh, we have to spend $50 to buy this pay-per-view. But you know what? If you fought Puginowski or Eddie Hall, people are spending 50 bucks. I know I am. They got my money. So Martin gets it, man.

KSW is doing the thing. And they're staying in their lane. And they're not trying to expand, not trying to do too much, even though it could be easy for them to do this. Just look at the buzz they're getting this weekend. They're getting more buzz this weekend for Eddie Hall versus Puginovsky than anything on the UFC card on Saturday. And the UFC card's pretty good with a great main event.

But they're just doing the thing. And I respect the hell out of it. Lewandowski's been low-key, like the best promoter in MMA for years. There's a reason KSW is on their 100th event. And these are not, I mean, I absolutely zero disrespect to Cage Warriors or anything like that, which are also supremely well-run organizations. KSW is selling out stadiums when they put on shows. Like they are doing big events, big local events, but big events,

and they've been doing it for a very long time because Martin Lundowski is very good at his job. He's good at, honestly, he's surprisingly good at Keyes. keeping talent. Like the fact that Saladin Parnasse is still there, I almost drafted him yesterday, the fact that he's like still there is pretty freaking wild, like honestly. And just understanding where their lane is, they are exceptional at it. And mostly is great because I don't know if I was the first, but I was one of the loudest people as soon as the Eddie Hall two on one fight happened,

that this must occur and that it was my most anticipated. fight that could be made and he delivered it. And so I will have unending love for him because easily the thing I'm looking forward to the most on Saturday is not the very good UFC Kansas City card. It's the absolute nonsense of Moyes Puginowski and Eddie All Fist fighting. Yeah. And you know what, Jed? He's one of us because I asked him how long it's been taking him to put this fight together. This isn't something that came together really nilly. He said it's been a year. Working on this for a year. So, He knew it.

The timing was perfect. As soon as that fight was over, he started getting Eddie Hall versus Pooge put together. Start making a call. Hey, Marius, I know you're down. He wanted a KSW100. That was the plan. In an ideal world,

it would happen at 100. He's so good at his job. That would have been perfect. Eddie was too busy. Eddie was too busy. So we got it done here. So, yeah, we're going to have four-minute rounds, two-four-minute rounds.

We're having one two-minute fight. is what we're having. This fight's going to be over quick. And if it gets to round two, 90 second break before round two instead of a 60. The man just gets it. Totally understands it.

Yeah, because like, oh, my, it's so, that's so smart, dude. NFL, take a lesson. Like, I know that, like, you don't have to just do stuff because, like, that's the norm. Just like, oh, I'm just going to have some,

like, oh, let's give them an extra 30 seconds. They're big, big boys. The fight will be better if we go to round two for them to get a little extra recovery. Let's just do it. You don't just do anything you want. It's so there's a liberation and just being like, F it,

that PFL really needs to adopt. Yep. They're so good. I love this so much. And the main event. KSW has low-key been like the best promotion forever. Yeah. All their events are fun as hell because they're in a sold-out stadium with like

pyro and shit. KSW has always been like the European rising for me I honestly I like I love KSW they're just they're the actual spiritual successor to pride yeah pretty much yeah do not yeah is there how do you watch it over here is it you have to pay-review okay so it's just kind of hard to watch they're usually fairly cheap yeah yeah it's worth it their card's always fun too don't go fun it's not even and the wonderful they're in the

that sweet spot where they're KSW. So not that I would do this, obviously. You really can't even find that many illegal streams of it because it's not the USC. So you just kind of have to buy the pay-per-fuse if you're going to watch it. Yeah. We should do a watch party for that fight.

Just for that fight. It'd be great. I'm live blogging it. Can't wait. Cannot wait. Wade, thank you. If, Jed, if Long Island and Luke bet the house on a fight and lost, how long would you let him crash at your place?

And what's the highest you've I'll bet on a fight. Keep up the great content. So first question, Jed, that was specifically for you. How long would you let Long Island and Lou Crashier place if he went all in on a bet and lost? I mean like a week or two? More places isn't that big.

And I like my face. And it would be very stupid of him to do that. And he's got other friends. So he doesn't just have to use me. But like, you know, I want to support people as well. I wouldn't kick him to the curve if he had nowhere else to go. But we'd need to set some balance. country's there for sure.

So we'll be like, hey, stay as long as you need to be like, hey, let's talk about how long you're going to stay because this is not a large, not a large place. Yeah, two, three days tops. That's how, that's how it should be. What's the highest you bet on a fight, Jed? Mine, I don't have an exciting story because my bets are very low. I won't share the number. You all know the most I bet in a fight.

You've probably seen the clip of me losing that amount of money when Alexa Grasso choked out Valentina Shvchenko. Needless to say, it was not great for me financially. It wasn't catastrophic because you never bet money you can't afford to lose, but that was a long-built bankroll that went down the drain in one night. Would that have been a climb bet, Subjinko winning? Oh, 100%. That would have been a climb bet.

And that's why the climb can't succeed. Like a billion percent, that would have been like a climb bet if I was just doing it at the time. And then frankly, that would have been better because I would have lost the climb bank roll as opposed to my actual bank roll, which would have, it was obviously worse for me. But, you know, you live, you learn. We all make mistakes. We don't have to, we don't have to reveal this, but is there a climb bet on UFCKC Saturday? There sure is a climb bet on USCKC this Saturday. We're back going for step 16. There's no bets bar, but we'll just tell you.

because it's easy, but go listen to that's part if you haven't. The co-main event, we decided, and by we, as if there's some sort of, like, group, it's me. I decided the royal we that while betting on Zhang Mingyang makes a lot of sense, I am a little bit afraid of, like, maybe Anthony Smith in his last career fight just, like, like summons the will of the gods to go out on the W. And it's not like Zhang Ming Yang is like this unstoppable dude. Like he's really fun, but he is very raw in some ways. So instead I decided that that fight doesn't go to decision

because either Zhang is going to kill Anthony Smith or Anthony Smith is going to tackle him and tap him. I think that those are the two outcomes. And it was conveniently right on minus 500 when I got it. I have no idea what it's like now. So co-main event doesn't go to a decision. So then I'm like getting 90% of the just betting against Anthony Smith to get clobbered in his retirement. But also hedging my bets in case he is the chosen one and gets to have a fun end to his career,

which frankly I hope it would be cool for him to get that moment. Yeah, but he zangs on my fantasy team. I don't think he's going to get it. By the way, like, but like Zhang's gone to a decision like once in his past 25. Oh, that's a great bet. That's a great bet, by the way. He comes out to kill or kill like he's going to, he's going to kill Anthony Smith or maybe get tackle and tapped. I think that's the only outcome here.

All right. Cool. Thank you much. A couple more super chats. I don't have to root against Anthony Smith either. I just have to root for a finish. I don't want to root. against Anthony Smith in retirement.

That feels like bad, Juju. Screeching, Anthony Smith should go in for almost taking the belt up, Jones, Jed. No, he shouldn't. He should be shamed forever. Shamed forever. He should have taken that belt and run with it. That would have been, look, the Bushito Code and the respect of fans for not taking that exit, they don't pay your damn bills.

He could forever be a UFC champion. I will maintain till the end of my days. The name is Thomas should have said, Can't go, can't go, and seen if he got a DQW. He would have been champion, and he would have got pay-per-view points in a ginormous rematch against John Jones, where John Jones would have been the greatest heel

at UFC history. He could have been the greatest heel of all time. This is like, had Chale made it to the end of that round, and John obviously can't fight, and Chale gets a TK win because John's toe is off of his foot, and he just survived, extra 70 seconds or whatever it was. There is, you will never convince me that Chale wouldn't have taken that belt and gone

to the presser in the back and been like, told you, beat him. Greatest of all time. My ass. I'm the greatest of all time. And then spent six months not fighting John, just like playing the string out as the greatest heel of all time. Anthony Smith could have done that. And he passed on it for like integrity.

Pashaa. Chale. Chale would have ran with that. Chale would have been the greatest heel in the history of the sport. Oh, no, why would I fight John again? I already beat him. I already beat John Jones. I beat him in five minutes. He'd be telling I beat.

Yeah, I beat him in five minutes. I beat John Jones. Like the, I can see it now. He would have a shirt. He would just constantly walk around in that shirt. He would have danced in the cage. The interview with Joe Rogan would have been friggin' amazing. I beat him in the first round.

I told you I was going to beat him first round and I did. I'm the champ. His body physically couldn't withstand me. His body broke when he came into contact with me. Literally broke. It would have been

who'd been the greatest heel of all time and Anthony Smith could have been that. Like he could have taken that and run with it. And instead, you know, good for him and his integrity, but look at him. You know,

he's not UFC champion. and we don't get to call him champ all the time. Oh, man. Thank you, Scretchen. One last super chat. One and only with a great comment here, Casey, you've got to put that up before we do the super chat. The most recent comment here,

because it's just A plus work. We get back to it. John Broken Bones Jones. That's right. Oh, my God. 100% what Chale would have been like, oh, you mean John Broken Bones, Joe? Nope.

I mean, elite. Yep. Oh my God. Terrific. We missed out by like 70 seconds from one of the funniest outcomes of all time. That happened twice for Chale because if Chale had beaten Anderson and then gotten stripped because he popped for like six steroids, that would have also been deeply funny and we missed both of those. All right. Super Chat. No, then what about Chil? Any chance Chale leaked preliminary inside info on the John Tom fight and was told. by his bosses to squash that with the Tom Cereal thing.

I will say, I'm going to say no, because that is an ESPN show. I'm sure ESPN is not just like, hey guys, just talk about whatever you want. Just go. ESPN isn't doing what we're doing right now, where it's just like answering questions, any question that you guys ask us.

That ain't happening. There is a layout of the show, I'm sure. I don't know if there's like a script or anything, but there is 100% a layout of the program. And there's just no world where ESPN did not know that that was not going to be brought up. And even if they didn't, it wasn't a live show. They still aired it on their platform. So I'm going to say no to that.

Yeah, I don't think that's true. I don't know what the incentive would be to say no to it unless they were going to announce it in some grand fashion. But like, that even doesn't seem like that would matter to them to be like, hey, back off of this. Like, it just doesn't really make sense to me, but I don't know. And it's Chale saying it. It's not like D.C. was saying it. Chale is saying it. And most people know Chale says things all the time.

And we, Chale is the one man who can get everything wrong and nobody will care. Like, he is in that position. But, yeah, that's what I think. ESPN if they saw this, I don't think anyone skimmed by and was like, yeah, this is fine. You know? So. Yes. Yeah.

All right. So there you go. Thank you. Super Smell and legal team. One last super chat just came in. Wonderboy Studio desk debut this weekend. Good fit. This is his first time doing the desk, really?

That's what people are saying. I thought he's been up there before. I have no idea. Either way, I think I agree with Ches. Maybe. Ches, what do you say? Two years? You're out?

What's your, what's your time frame? Oh, three. I think, I think three. Three? Maybe, maybe you could talk me into five. Three is mainly just a, there's no shortage of people. Like they have a near limitless number of fighters of Renown to just cycle in and be like, hey, let's give this new guy a chance, you know?

like three three to five things fine yeah i agree wonder wonder boy's great he should be up there by though maybe this is this espn studio desk debut because remember the infamous moment when tyron woodley oh yeah i'll say he definitely was on desk on the desk and said all right man we're gonna go fight now because i'm the number one guy so so awkward and then tyrant cut the the worst promo of a new champion in history yeah wonder boy i like you very much but But I want the toughest fights with Nick Diaz and George St. Pierre, which we knew what he was trying to do. And you could visibly see Wonderboy being like, what are you talking about? Like, I just beat the hell out of Johnny Hendrix and finished him in like 70 seconds in a main event.

And you're not going to give me the title shot, even though it took you forever to get your own title shot. You're going back on all of this. Yeah, he was definitely on the desk for that one. Because I remember that moment. It was this event. Right here. Yeah. This is it right here.

I was with Arrow Alwani as what backstage talking and the whole thing was nuts. Yep. So, yeah. I just want to address this so both of you can confirm because I don't mean this to be mean to the it factor. I just need him to understand that we're not lying or being stupid. Shale would have won by TKO doctor stoppage because that's how fighting was. works. Yeah, it was, it's pretty clear because it wasn't,

it wasn't accidental whatever, like headbutter or something like that. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And that's why it, that's why in 70 seconds. Yeah. If it had gone to round, if it had gone to the next round and they went to the corner and John would have been visibly in pain and there probably would have been monitors showing up on the screen, a man whose toe is falling off of his goddamn foot.

The fight would have been stopped immediately. A doctor would have come in and stop the fight. You cannot fight. You cannot fight. And because that injury wasn't caused by an illegal maneuver to the best of our knowledge, that is just a doctor stoppage, which is default a TKO victory for the opponent. I mean this kindly. I'm not trying to dunk on you, but I want you to know that the comments that are all telling you're wrong, they're correct.

Yeah. It's a doctor stoppage TKO. That's what it would. That's what it would have happened. But going to the Anthony Smith one, the knee, would that. That might not have. That would have been a judgment call on the referee. It could have been a deco or they kind of gone to the judge's cars or gone to the cards

because it happened so identified. It was in like the fourth or fifth. Yeah. So then at that point, if he didn't rule a DQ, it would have been, it would have gone to a tech decision. If he didn't rule it a DQ, that would have been. Yeah, but that would have been on to the thing. That's an if, too. Yeah, I think it probably would have been a DQ though in that situation.

That was the consideration. That's a chilling situation. Because he took a point to. Yeah. Oh, he took the point. You did take the point. That's why it would have been DQ. That's supposed to be a DQ if you take the point, like fundamentally.

That was why. Also, sometimes the rest make up their own rules to get what they feel is right. So that might not have worked out for him. But it could have tried. and he would have had a better chance of winning than continuing to fight. That's true. We have lots of questions, but we've already gone an hour 15, so I think we'll have to call it a day.

Ask questions tomorrow. We're doing a preview show. Yeah. Yeah, we'll do it. In fact, they wouldn't overturn it. Yes. Okay. Well, hit the music.

We're done. Thank you all very much. Much appreciated. We will preview UFC Kansas City tomorrow. We might even make this a KSW preview show as well. Why the hell not? Because the best fight of the weekend is happening on KSW 105. Just stick with us.

We get you covered on all things MNBA this weekend. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. And then, yeah, UFC will be in Des Moines next weekend. Also, the funny, the silliness going down for Casey for Jed. I am Mike Eck back next week with a fresh matchup right here on VTL, the Akonik Voice Special and Teach you all. Good night.

Love you home. Been Between the Links, an MMI fighting production on the Vox Media Network.