MMA Fighting - BTL | Interest In Jake Paul vs. Nate Diaz, Next For Arnold Allen, UFC 281 Lineup

Episode Date: November 3, 2022

Jake Paul defeated Anderson Silva on Saturday to remain undefeated in the boxing ring, and proved a lot of doubters wrong in the process. Heading into the bout, a lot of people felt like a massive fight would be Paul vs. Nate Diaz, but coming out of it, is the interest level in that fight as high as it was? On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss Paul's win over the former UFC middleweight champion, if a fight with Diaz is still interesting, and where Paul should go from here. Additionally, topics include the state of the UFC featherweight division following Arnold Allen's injury TKO win over Calvin Kattar at UFC Vegas 63, and if Allen has earned himself an interim title shot, along with this Saturday's UFC Vegas 64 event headlined by Marina Rodriguez vs. Amanda Lemos, reaction to the full UFC 281 lineup — which takes place next weekend at Madison Square Garden — and more. Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Damon Martin. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Damon Martin: @DamonMartin Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two, ghosts in the machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible Original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-by journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love?

The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Boating for Flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo Time. Play Ojo? Great idea. Feel the fun with all the latest slots in live casino games and with no wagering requirements. What you win is yours to keep groovy.

Hey, I won! Feel the fun! The thing will begin when passenger Fisher is done celebrating. 19 plus Ontario only. Please play responsibly. Concerned by your gambling or that if someone close you, call 186653310 or visitcomicsontera.com. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. It's wean the link.

The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BT. Thank you for joining us in this Thursday. A lot to talk about. We're a couple days away from UFC Vegas 64. We're nine days away from UFC 281. Five days removed from a very busy past weekend in the world of combat sports in boxing, mixed martial arts. A lot to talk about with this wonderful panel.

So let's get into it first. Let us say hello once again to Mr. No Gray area, the winningest player in BTL history. But this is a quote unquote exhibition. matchup. So technically, the BTL retirement stands, but he's at least on the program. It's like someone retiring from M.MA and then

doing a grappling match, right? Mr. Jedmishu from M.AFighting.com. Two weeks at a row, my man. How are you? Exactly. You know, when Ryzen offers Floyd Mayweather a big bag of money, he says, okay, sure. And, you know, when you offer me the big bag of money to come on, I'm like, well,

I guess, you know, who can't use a big bag of money, especially since I didn't win the lot of last night, which is obviously crap. I clearly should have won, so I needed the big bag of money. Well, my bank account is less, but I'm happy to see you. And joining him, a man whose Twitter notifications exploded the last time he appeared on this show. Hot takes galore. We're coming from this man on the road to the 2022 award show on BTL. You can go back into the archives and check that out from MAAfighting.com, a man who will defend until the end of time, the greatness of Halloween

ends, Mr. Damon Martin. Hello, Mr. Damon Martin. Yeah, I will definitely not do that. I will defend that that movie is a giant piece of garbage that shouldn't have been made. But yeah, I'm here. And it was the last time Jed wasn't here, so I had to become Mr. Hot Take.

And yeah, my mentions went insane afterwards. So, you know, I had to take up the mantle. I had to try to do Jed justice. You did great. Somebody's got to do it. You know, the game ain't in me no-mo. But, yeah, I'm glad you stepped up, Damon. Well, maybe we'll have to do another tournament with a big bag of money as the prize and maybe we'll get you back in.

But let's get into this thing. And look, the thumbnail image that you see, it's obviously a big talking point, but that's not where we're starting. We're going to start with the very confusing UFC featherweight division in the ultimate fighting championship. It continues to be a really tough division to navigate, especially up the top, as we saw with UFC Vegas 63 this past Saturday. Arnold Allen versus Calvin Cater, the main event. Everyone was fired up and excited to see if Arnold Allen could take that next step up. What Calvin Cater could do? Could one of these guys emerge?

Perhaps have Alexander Volcanovsky get excited enough to stay at 145? And the fight ends with an injury TKO. Cater hurts his knee. Arnold Allen looked very, very solid in the first round, but that's not anything new for an opponent of Calvin Cater, who ended up with just a nasty knee injury. causes the end of the fight. So, Damon, we'll begin with you. We've seen a lot of these injury stoppages over the years. We've got two in back-to-back featherweight main events.

The champion Alexander Volkovsky, like I mentioned earlier, if he had any doubts about jumping up to 155, I don't think he has any anymore. So your reaction to the ending of that fight, and Arnold Allen's win. It's just really unfortunate. You know, Arnold Allen has been snake-bitten by so many weird things in his career injuries that have kept him out where he was, you know, sitting on the sidelines for such a long time. He comes back and starches Dan Hooker has a big win. And then you think, okay, here's his chance to really go step into the limelight, get a main event, you know, maybe book a fight coming up in March when the UFC goes back

to England, something like that. And then, you know, freak injury ends it. And it's unfortunate because Calvin Cater is as tough as they come. You got Calvin Cater, and I know a lot of people won't like to hear this. But Calvin Cater is kind of like the gatekeeper to that top five. Like when you get through, if you get through Calvin Cater, you are a legitimate. title contender. And, you know, we've seen that time and again, he's a really, really tough out. Just unfortunate went that way. And so now we have, you know, even less clarity than we did

before. You think about if Arnold Allen would have gone out and just, you know, destroyed or beaten Calvin Cater dominantly that he could have jumped the line and said he's the number one contender over Josh Emmett and everybody else. But, you know, unfortunately, when that injury happens, it does, it doesn't negate the win, but we can't deny that it happened. We can't ignore it. So now we're stuck in a situation where Alexander Volcanos, has every reason in the world to go up to 155 pounds while the rest of the division plays out and they try to find him a legit number one contender

because right now, just being honest, there isn't one. Jed, we talked about this on the post-fight show in the immediate aftermath of this, but now that five extra days have gone by, how do you digest the ending of that fight, Alan's performance, even his subsequent interviews afterwards? He was on the MA hour recently. What do we think?

It's a good question. Good question. Thank you for the question, Mike. I feel pretty much the same. I don't think there's a way to, there's not a nuanced or fun or a hot, takey way to approach this. It is what it is, right? Like he wins the fight.

We can't take it away from him, but he doesn't win it in the way that you wanted him to win it. There is obviously some level of mitigation. Interesting that the UFC rankings panel has decided that Calvin Cater does not go beneath thawed out in their rankings, but neither here nor there, that's not a rankings that matter. So, you know, it is what it is in that regard. It's unfortunate. The featherweight division is very unfortunate. This doesn't change anything.

We'll be extremely clear about this, though, because there has been, and you mentioned it, a little bit of this narrative of, well, now Volk doesn't have a reason to stay. Volk was never going to fight the winner of this fight. Like, it was never going to happen because he wants a. and is going to get a lightweight title opportunity. So all we got out of here is the same we would have gotten if Arnold Allen had won cleanly, or I guess, you know, had Calvin Cater won the fight. The winner of this fight is going to fight somebody else potentially for an interim title,

but almost certainly for that number one contender spot. So even though it came about in an unfortunate way, we got to the result that we were going to get to regardless in Arnold Allen's not defense, but maybe if you're trying to look for a silver lining because the fight was short, he didn't get injured in this. So now he gets to move forward.

He gets to face Yeh, Rodriguez, or Josh Himit for a number one contenders fight, probably at the UFC London return show that pay-per-view in March. Sir Allen's comments afterwards, it's what you can expect from Allen, right? he he's not going to do the thing because that's not who he is if the man could do the thing he would probably already be fighting for a title right now but that's not who he is so he is going to leon edwards his way into a title shot after 12 wins and that's he's good enough to

get him so i guess that's a that's a path even if it's he's not doing himself any favors all right so let's try to figure this out let's put our matchmaking hats because Volcanovsky, we've talked about this for a couple weeks now, even longer for being honest. He's been saying, please, for the love of God, do an interim title fight. I want you to do it. Just give me a confirmed number one contender for crying out loud. And they may just do that now. I don't know.

But we have three names in the mix, it appears. And Jed will start with you. We have Yaira Rodriguez, who since the win over Brian Ortega in somewhat similar fashion than Arnold Allen's has done not the thing. He's done Yair Rodriguez things, where he has shunned the idea of fighting for an interim title altogether. He wants Volk. He only wants Volk. And he will wait forever to get Volk.

And then we have Josh Emmett, who has five wins in a row. He's been bit by the injury bug at times during the stretch. He actually deserves a lot of credit for all of these injuries he's come back from. But in most people's minds, the win over Calvin Cater earlier this year, not a lot of people thought he won that fight. And then we have Arnold Allen 12 wins in a row. He's 10 and 0 in the UFC. Back-to-back stoppage wins on paper. What do we do here?

Like how do we book this division now? Who is the odd man out in this interim title discussion? Should the UFC go in this direction? Well, if I had my druthers, this would be really easy. You would book Arnold Allen versus Alexander Volcanovsky because Volk hasn't no way cleaned out his division. There is a very, very deserving lightweight challenger for the new lightweight champion. And then there's not a nodman out.

Volk fights on an Allen, and then you put Yair and Emmett together in a number one contenders ballot. And it's the easiest thing in the world. It's the most meritocratic thing in the world. Makes all the sense in the world. But we're all living under the combined illusion that, like, Alexander Volkanowski just needs to have a lightweight title fight. But whatever.

I'm not bitter that this very stupid thing that's going to ruin a lot of things is going to happen. Cool, cool, cool. All for a fight where he's going to get absolutely curbstone. Like it's cool. All right, let's spend six months doing this instead of actually like doing the thing you said you wanted to do, which was clean out your division and fight all these contenders. Screw the, screw the make a case for. Pick one. Pick one.

Champions do it all the time. And you could do a lot worse than picking a guy on a 10 fight win streak. Like that is, it's not a hard thing to do. That's what I would say should happen. It's not what's going to happen. Folks are going to go lose to Islam. He's going to spend eight months doing that. And then we're going to get on or down.

my assumption is that it goes on and yeaha rodriguez and they just come and talk to you and are like hey man don't care i don't care what you think you are owed or deserve here your options you can take this fight it's in for an interim belt and if you don't take it we're going to josh emitt and under those circumstances yeah you're going to have to balk he's going to have to check up and be like oh well i guess i can't wait for volk if there's already an interim belt made that's just not going to work for me so I think we're going to get that and then Emmett's going to fight like, I would say it would make more sense for Emmett to fight the winner of Mitchell Topuria, that fight that's coming up. But I think there's also a very real possibility where he fights Max Holloway because Max will just get rid of the Josh Emmett problem. Because that's where Josh Emmett is.

Josh Emmett didn't beat Calvin Cater. He's not actually like a real title contender that we should give credit to because he lost Decatur. And Max will take care of that problem for us because Max is a problem solver. Daman, what say you? First off, I did score Josh Emmett beating Calvin Cater, so sorry to ruin that delusion for you. We found the one. We found the one guy. That being said, it should, listen, I do agree with one thing.

In theory, it should be, you know, Alexander Volcanowski against the number one contender in the division. And based on results right now, probably is Arnold Allen. But again, we're not going to get that. We are going to get, you know, Islam Makachev and Alexander Volkanowski, for whatever reason. and that fight's going to happen. So we're moving on. The fight to make, if you're going to do an interim title, and I said this the other day,

and I don't like interim titles, I've never liked interim titles, but in this case, it might actually slightly make sense, only because if Okunovsky fights Makachev in February, chances are he's not going to come back and defend his title again until, you know, the latter half of 2023,

because I don't see the Islam Makachev fight going very well for him. And maybe he gets Kimmerd in the first round, and he's okay to come back quicker, but I just don't see that happening. So he's going to be out for a while, so maybe in that way you justify an interim title. That's the best case, by the way, because if he wins,

he's never defending his belt. Yeah, that too, that too. But so hypothetically, he goes out, loses, and then it's six months before he fights again, and then you just have the featherweight division being held up. So in that case, I think the fight to make is Josh Emmett against Arnold Allen, and here's why.

Josh Emmett, like him or hate him, and you can say he lost to, Calvin Cater. It was a close fight with Calvin Cater, whatever. But he is on a bit of a winning streak. And of course, Armadale's on a better winning streak. The problem with Yaira Rodriguez, and I brought this up on Twitter the other day, Yaira Rodriguez is three and two with one no contest in his last six fights. And those six fights took place over five years. Yaya Rodriguez is like the least active fighter in history, who is supposed to be getting

in there and him tight. He's coming off an injury win over Brian Ortega, coming off a loss to Max Holloway. He had a win and another loss. I mean, the guy is not active enough to actually justify this. He rarely stays healthy enough to compete like that. He's three and two with one no contest over five years. That's ridiculous, okay? I cannot see and cannot justify putting this guy into an interim title fight, especially when you tack on the idea that he's also said,

I'm not fighting anybody, I'm sitting out. Sitting out for what? You beat Brian Ortega on an injury. What did you earn? You went out there and got beat by Max Hollow, you're on a one-fight win streak, and that one fight came under less than optimal circumstances, what are you, what, how do you,

how are you demanding anything? Like how is this guy demanding anything with his level of activity? So Josh, I'm at Arnold Allen, yes, it may not be the most exciting fight in the world. And listen, Arvallel may go out there and curb stop Josh, but great, then you have your legit number one contender.

But getting out of here, Rodriguez, let him fight some, let him fight the winner of Toporia and Mitchell and see if he can actually string together two wins in a row and not sit out for the next three years. I like both of those ideas. I also agree that if Max Holloway is going to fight anybody, it would be Josh Emmett and nobody else,

because I would keep Max away from Arnold Allen altogether. 100%, because Max, there's a good chance Max wins that fight, and then Arnold just takes a big step back, and we don't want that. We're trying to move forward here, and hopefully that's what happens, but we'll see. I would say Allen is going to be one half of this fight because they will go back to the UK. Yeah, he'll be, yeah, and they're just going to add this to the... It's a 10 fight win streak.

Like I don't, I feel like fans have really come around to just like hate that and be like, well, who's it over? I don't care. I don't care if it's over 10 kindergartners. 10 fights in a row is impossible to do. That's why nobody does it. That's why it doesn't exist. Don't, don't be shocked.

Don't be shocked if it ends up being Yaira Rodriguez and Josh Schmidt just to like really just to piss off Jed because Arnold. In the UK. In the UK. He's going to get there. He could, there is guarantee there's a chance. Armad Allen gets Darius right now, right? He absolutely could get Darius where he just said he gets the winner of Tuporia and Mitchell.

And they're like, oh, yeah, you're going to fight in London. You're going to fight the winner of Bryce Mitchell and Ili, Leutoporio, Tuporia while Josh Schumman fights Jerry Rodriguez. There is 100% chance that could happen. Tuporia, Allen would be a dope fight though. Like, let's be a real about it. If I'd be really fun. All right.

Last thing on this before we move on. Daman, who is the MVP of UFC Vegas 63? Am I allowed to say not us? Is that a legit answer? Because you can say whatever you want. The card was bad. I mean, this card was, I mean, so we obviously, I had an idea we were going to be talking about this card ahead of time.

So I'm like looking at the card and like kind of remembering what happened. And I mean, goodness gracious, this card was awful. I mean, this was a bad, bad, bad card. I guess if you're going to force. me to pick one fighter and say like he's the MVP so to speak i mean the only answer is arnold allen because he actually went out there got a win in the main event i guess but if i have to go somewhere else i'm going to go completely out left field and say uh roman delides if we're going out there and just demolishing phil hauls in absolutely vicious fashion and that's two knockouts in

row for roman seems like a really fun guy seems like he's kind of picked up his pace a little bit uh i thought he coming in i thought coming into the oc was a pretty good prospect had that weird loss to trevin giles and has now won, I think, three in a row. On a barren wasteland of a card, I thought he had the most impressive performance. So I'll go to that, but my answer is not us because that card was terrible. It was a bad card to start with.

This is another example, the UFC just throwing anything out there and saying, look, we'll make you watch it because there's just nothing, I mean, there's nothing memorable happen on this card. The only thing memorable that anyone was even talking about afterwards was the weird decision in the Kalil Round Street, Dusted Jacoby fight.

of that, I have not heard one person say anything about this card outside of Arnold Allen. Jed, you laughed at the question and then you made many facial expressions. So I'm curious what you're at. There aren't any good MVP's, uh, I will note, um, that I don't necessarily disagree with Damon's point, uh, or Damon's choices. It is interesting that both of Damon's choices, though, were fights that were marred by horrific knee injuries and cataclysmically bad

coaching decisions. So I'm going to get on my soapbox for a minute. Coaches should protect their fucking fighters because that Roman Deleads a K.O. Great K.O. Entirely unnecessary just didn't need to happen at all

because Phil Hawes was done. Phil Hawes' knee was clearly ruined and could not adequately defend himself. And I am willing to apportion blame to the referees as well for not stepping in but more than that you get back to the corner your fighter can't walk because his knee is all jacked up and you're just like yeah well you know go on out there i'm sure that you having one of one limb one functioning limb is going to really do great things we saw how bad that was with freaking t j dillishaw we saw the awful awful

chaos and brain damage that phil haze took as a result of his corner not protecting him and the main event I am not a medical professional, but I have to assume that the knee injury that was suffered, I'm almost a thousand percent certain that that is a torn ACL, that Calvin Cater's knee did not improve by him going back out there, stepping on it and having it slide out even worse than it did the first time. Protect your freaking fighters, you guys are the least valuable people.

I'd fire you all if I had any option to do so. MVP, though, the only person who really, I can't pick De Leeds Day because that performance is marred by the horrible horrible work from Hawes's Corner. So for me, if I have to pick one, it's got to be Treshaun Gore because that is a highlight real finish

that like as long as Gore is, I think it was A.K. said this. Maybe it was on onto the next one. Your wonderful program, he on Mbematefinding.com, great network, great podcast. That Treson Gore, as long as he's in the UFC, that is a highlight that will stick. will follow him around. That's going to be on packages forever.

So it's slim pickings, but that's got to be the one as far as I'm concerned. Let me just say real quick, give credit or credit. I agree with everything you're saying, Jed, about the corner work. Just to be just to be fair, though, Delizadez didn't go to the corner. It was a first round finish. So technically that, to me, is on the referee more than the corner, or they could have thrown in the towel. He didn't actually go to the corner. It was a first round.

Now, Calvin Cater is a different story. Calvin Cater, they should have. stop that between rounds just like T.J. Dillishaw, the fact that they let him go out for a second round is egregious. But I agree in theory what you're saying about Phil Halls, too. Either the corner should have thrown in the towel or the referee should have stopped the fight. But in Calvin Cater's, there is no defense for that. He was done. His knee was done. He was not, as you say, he was not going to suddenly get better coming out in the second round. So I completely agree with them.

They don't repair themselves or whatever. Like, it's just not. It was a really frustrating card is the overall point. This card was awful to watch. Of course, best wishes to Calvin Cater. Hope the injury isn't too, too serious. Nothing but positivity heading his way. I hope so. Let's move on to the other big event from this past weekend,

and it is not Bellator Milan. The point for round one goes to... How is it not Bellator Milan? Damon Martin, one to nothing in this exhibition matchup. I will say shouts to Belator Milan, their pacing was actually not awful. that's what I heard for whatever it's worth.

Their main card pacing was pretty reasonable. It counts for a lot, man. When it's fights that no one cares about, at least do them quick. Yep. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining means you not only satisfy your travel bug,

but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. with gifts that say I know you. From festive and cozy fashion to luxe beauty and fragrance sets. Our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holt's holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com. So I know people.

I'm sorry, but we have to talk about Jake Paul. We're going to put a bow on this whole thing. And hopefully we don't have to talk about Jake Paul boxing on this program for a few months at least. But he goes out on Saturday in Glendale, Arizona, defeats Anderson Silva, unanimous decision, gets the late knockdown in the eighth round, and he goes out and gets it done in a pretty fun fight. So, Jed, we'll start with you. How do you grade Jake Paul's performance?

And how do you grade the fight as a whole? A minus, maybe a straight A, somewhere in that range. It's the best he's ever looked boxing by a lot, as far as I'm concerned. And I thought he, I had Anderson Silva up four to three heading into the last round. Jake Paul got the knockdown and won the round and on my scorecard took the fight. I recognize it on the official scorecards Jake was already up and was going to win. And I don't have a huge issue with that. I don't think it's great, but it's fine.

But yeah, he looked the best he has ever looked boxing. And you can make excuses and say, well, Anderson Silva's 50 or whatever. And some of that has some basis in reality. but the fact is Jake Paul has improved leaps and bounds, and he showed it by he is still very raw in a lot of respects, right? Like he doesn't work in huge combinations. His defense is pretty minimal. And when Silva would put him under fire,

he was not all the way comfortable, but he didn't panic. That's how he got the knockdown in the last round as Silva was really pressing him, and he kept his wits about him. Landed his short right hand. That was great. The things that I'm taking away from this fight are,

I knew Jake Paul was putting an effort, I knew he was making a reasonable effort at it, and that's to be commended. He is really, really focused on working on this. He's never going to be a world champion. He came at the game too late, frankly, for that. But if you are actively committed to this and you're sinking millions of dollars into your prep

and are reasonably athletic, you can do some things. And that's what we're seeing, because I thought Anderson Silva was going to win this fight largely by being more experienced, by having layered defense, and by Jake Paul kind of not knowing what to do. But he had a really good game plan. He worked the body very, very well. And he just affected a game plan. They clearly said, we know Anderson Silva was going to give up some rounds. You're going to have to survive the storms when he comes. But in the interim, you need to work. You need to get at the body, get the jab going, get the jab going, just stay busy and outland him. And they didn't come out headhunting like he had done in other.

their fights, which is great, because if you come ahead, honey, he's going to gas himself out. He's not going eight rounds. He had a great game plan. He stuck to his game plan. There's just a good performance. Like there's nothing, you cannot take anything away from that performance. And if at this point, you're looking at him and saying, well, he's shit, maybe in the con, like, in the confines of legitimate A-level pro boxers, okay, but like, for what he is, he's very, very good

for what he is and what he's doing. Props to the man. Still don't like him as a person, but he's really working hard. And he might even be growing up from, you know, the chip bag, well, 20-year-old he was. None of us are great people in our early 20s. Maybe he's maturing. Who can say, Mike? Well, that'll be a 30-for-30 someday.

Damon, what say you? Yeah, I'm with Jed on pretty much everything there. I mean, listen, he went out there and beat, you know, Anderson Silva. I mean, I picked Anderson Silva to win the fight, so I can't sit here. I hate the idea that everyone said Anderson Silva was going to be Jake Paul's toughest test and then when Jake Paul wins you say oh Anderson Silva's 47 he's old, he's slow, he's this, he's that.

You can't do that. You can't in one breath say it's as tough as fight than the next breath say he's overrated and all these other kind of things. Anderson Silva went out and beat a legit boxer in Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. We can talk all day about how legit Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. is

but the reality is Anderson Silva beat him and beat him going away. Jake Paul had a good fight. Much like Jed, I had Anderson up one round going into that final round. Jake got a 10-8 round in the final round. He won the fight. It was a solid fight. Close rounds.

I thought Anderson, in typical Anderson fashion, kind of gave away some rounds. He kind of played with his food a little bit. And maybe if he had been a little bit more aggressive, he could have gotten some of those rounds back. But also, again, you know, I think there was a real fear of the counterpower coming from Jake, from Jake Paul. You can argue about how good of a boxer he is, but you can't. had denied that he actually does have legitimate punching power. And a lot of people have punching power doesn't mean they're good boxers. It was a good next step for him. I mean, Anderson, listen, Anderson Silva may never be a champion. He may never be a, you know, tremendous boxer and then,

you know, in that kind of level. But, you know, when people talk about Jake hasn't fought, you know, pro boxer yet, come on people. Like Anderson, like, something that BJ Flores said on the MMA yesterday, I told, I said this before he said it. I said, you put Anderson Silva in the ring with Tommy Fury. He tools Tommy Fury. He dismantles Tommy Fury. Tommy Fury is awful. If you've watched Tommy Fury Fury box, he is awful. He is a terrible, terrible boxer. But because he has a 9-and-0 pro-record, somehow he's a more legitimate fighter than Jake Paul. It's ridiculous. Jake Paul has fought better competition, six fights into his career than most pro-boxers. Anderson Silva is legit. Is he a world champion-level boxer? No, but nobody's facing world champion-level boxers in their six-pro fight.

I said this on Twitter earlier. Cadello Alvarez didn't fight a winning opponent. Opponent with a winning record until his 13 pro fight. I think Terrence Crawford, it was like 15 fights. These guys are good. That's how boxers build their resumes. They go out and fight guys. They pick out of a lineup at a swap beat.

And then they go beat him and they build their record of 15-0. And then they start getting legit competition. For what Jake Paul's doing, he's doing what he's supposed to be doing. He's just doing it on a bigger stage and it pisses people off because everyone's talking about it. But legitimately, he's fighting decent, you know, enough competition for six fights in his career. And Anderson Silva's not a bad opponent. He went out there and did what he was supposed to do, won a good fight, showed

improvements. He showed he's a much better boxer now than he was 10 months ago when he fought Tyron Woodley. And he did what he had to do and he got the win. People who don't want to give Jake Paul credit are just not wanted to give him credit because they dislike Jake Paul, not because he's just an objectionally terrible boxer. He's not great and he'll never be a world champion. and let's stop, don't even mention Canelo Alvarez.

You're never going to beat him. Come on. It's ridiculous. But, you know, can he beat Anderson Silva? Yeah, he did. And Anderson Silva's a pretty good guy, pretty good boxer. I'd rather see Kamara Usman box Canola Alvarez. I'm just kidding.

But heading into this fight, Damon, well beyond, probably since December of last year, and definitely in the build of UFC 279 and beyond. This fight was with Anderson Silva for Jake Paul was a hurdle to get to a potential. fight with Nate Diaz. Of course, Diaz was in the building. He was in the building in December in Tampa as well. There was an issue with Paul's team in the back, stocked and the slaps were thrown, water bottles were thrown. This whole idea has been building for a hot minute now. But I feel like where people were heading in and where they are now, much different. I feel like people have soured on this idea since Saturday. So do you agree with that, Damon? Are you interested at all right now?

in seeing Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz in a boxing match next, if it's possible to put together because he's not completely free from the UFC by all accounts, but you know what I'm trying to say here. First off, anytime Team Diaz is in the building, don't give them water bottles, okay? Give them like the concert thing where you have to take off the cap

so they can't actually throw a full water bottle because these dudes love to throw water bottles. Second, no, I mean, the reality is, and I said this on Saturday, and a lot of people, you know, argue with me, and other people agreed, but Nate Diaz is a three-to-one underdog to Jake Paul. I mean, listen, Anderson Silva is a better boxer than Nate Diaz, and he's also a much bigger boxer than Nate Diaz. Nate Diaz is a 155-pounder masquerading as a welterweight.

Unless Nate Diaz suddenly becomes a bodybuilder and puts on a ton of body mass and everything, he's going to probably walk into a fight with Jake Paul at 175 pounds. Jake Paul is probably stepping in there at 200 pounds. It's going to be another example of Jake Paul taking on a guy who's over- overmatched, oversized, and overpowered. Is Nate Diaz a decent boxer? For MMA, he seems to have boxing. We've never seen him actually in a boxing match.

We can hear all day about how Nate Diaz trains with Andre Ward, and he does all these things in the gym, and he has this, he has a good boxing style. But ultimately, Nate Diaz, you know, has those pitter, patter volume punches that I don't know that that's going to work in a real legitimate boxing match against the guy like Jake Paul, who's going to be that much bigger, that much stronger, hits that much harder.

Do I want to see it? In theory, I want to see it. only because I want Nate Diaz to get a huge bag of money to fight Jake Paul because that's what he wasn't getting in the UFC and he didn't get treated right on his way out of the UFC. We all know that. The UFC did him dirty. I want Nate Diaz to get paid. And if this is the way for him to go out and get a big seven-figure payday, a massive payday, and it's going to be a big pay-per-view, go do it. And in that regard, yes, I want to see it because I want Nate Diaz to get paid. On the other side, I don't think the fight goes well for Nate Diaz. I don't think it's

really that competitive of a fight. He's going to be undersized. And Jake Paul is getting better as a boxer. Now we're asking a, how old is Nate DS 37? We're asking a 37 year old guy to step in there, you know, and basically boxing for real for the first time against the guy who's been training nonstop for the past couple three years. I mean, listen, I don't think it's a competitive fight. But if you're asking me if I want to see it, I only want to see it for that one reason. And that's because I want Nate Diaz to get paid. But otherwise, no, he's going to be a three to one underdog. and I don't see the fight going well for him at all. Chad, what do you think?

Are you in on Jake Paul versus Nate Diaz? Couldn't care less. In my defense, I didn't care about this fight before the Anderson Silver fight. It is just, it was obviously a thing that's going to happen. It's the big money draw. And if they want to do it and Nate wants to get a bag of money, who might say no? I know that some people have some appetite for it. I do wonder how much the Anderson Silva fight may have muted some of the broader interest in this.

So my guess is Nate's pretty impervious to that sort of drop off in attention. So people buy it. It's a thing that's going to happen. That's fine. I have no interest. Nate Dia is going to get killed. It's just really, really obvious. He has nothing to offer in a boxing ring for.

for Jake Paul. And I would have said that before Anderson Silva. I thought that was the only downside to the Anderson Silva fight, is that it probably takes away some of the shine there. But I also thought Silva was going to win. And if Silva wins, then Nate Diaz looks a little more up to speed, right, for him. I disagree. I know this might be a little bit of a hot take because it seems like,

especially in the MMA media, a lot of people are coming with this angle of, well, Tommy Fury's bum and going to get, like, he's, he doesn't he's not going to beat jake paul i'm going to beat jake paul i am way more interested in watching that as far as bad boxing if i have to watch it i think that fight is far more competitive than we're giving it credit not because tommy fury is necessarily a great boxer but let's be clear again jake paul isn't a great boxer either and the thing that i want answered now like i know some things about Jake Paul now. And it's, hey, you beat Anderson Silva.

You effectuated a really good game plan. You are serious about this and committed. Like, here, these are good things to know about your development and progression. We've just never seen him fight somebody that he doesn't have enormous physical advantages over. And for a lot of it, he was huge and younger and more athletic. And then in Silva, he was at least younger and more athletic, right? Like Anderson Silva was 50 years old. It's just not the same.

I can't believe I'm about to say these words, but it is, I was listening to the impulsive podcast this morning for an article. And on that, Logan Paul was talking about boxing Floyd Mayweather. I'm not here to get into that specific thing, but he said a quote that's pretty true, honestly, which is, I'm paraphrasing here. He said something like, yeah, man, you know, just I knew at some points I'd get in there and just I could look in his eyes and be like, you're 50. You don't really want to do this anymore. And like, I'm just younger and that's a thing. And I think that that is like really true. And I am, again, I'm not taking shit away from that interest and so when. I didn't think he was going to do it. He took the fight. He won the fight justly full credit to him. But I have no idea how this man fights when he is faced against a man

that is his equal. And maybe he is not his equal in skill. But let's, Let's not pretend. Like, we don't have to act like Jake Paul is winning by great skill. There is an underlying ability, but he is mostly winning off youth and athleticism and some skill mixed in. And it is, but he did not beat Anderson Silva because he's a super crafty boxer. Like, that's just not, there was a piece of that. That was not the whole point here. And I am really interested to see what it looks like when the thing he has leaned his entire

boxing career upon, the foundation of it is I'm young and I'm athletic and I'm strong. Tommy Fury is also those things and also has a little bit of skill even if he's not very good. Like, I think that fight actually probably ends up being really fun, honestly. And I would favor Jake Paul, because I do think he's better. But I think we're going to learn a lot more about how he faces against Tyron Woodley hit him once and hurt him and full credit to him he recovered. Tyron Woodley is Tyron Woodley. and the whole, it's rigged

because Tyron didn't follow up with anything. Like, that's not what's going to happen if Tommy Fury hits him real hard. Tommy Fury is going to keep trying to hit him, and we might get some real interplay and back and forth. I think that fight is the logical next step for him. I think it's much more compelling,

much more interesting than Nate Diaz. It is a fight that I would watch if, you know, I'm probably not going to pay the pay-per-view to watch it, but if we're covering it, which we will be, I'll be like, I'll do that one. That seems fun. I'd like to see what's going on.

here. So that's the fight that makes sense to me. I know we're getting Nate Diaz. All right. Last thing before we move on. Jake Paul said estimates for the buy rate of this pay-per-view around 2 to 300,000. He thinks it's pretty crappy, disappointing. He believes that the interview that Anderson Silva did, where he apparently misspoke about getting knocked out in training, which is weird because I don't think that's the first time he said something like that. Like I thought during one of the early press conferences with Chail Sunnan, he said something similar to that because I remember going reading it in our Slack channel. Did Anderson Silva just really say that? So I don't think that's the first time he said that.

And obviously he clarified it a bunch and the commission had to do a special meeting about it. But either way, Jed, Jake thinks that this Anderson Silva topic was the reason for the poorish estimated buy rate. Do you agree with that? or do you think people are just kind of over Jake Paul at this point? It's really tough to feel confident in an answer here. I take any of their pay-per-view numbers with an enormous grain of salt, if not outright disbelief, just because I cannot trust what any of those numbers have been for any of his fights. If you had asked me to ballpark a figure beforehand, I would have said like 400K,

because Anderson Silva is a legend and a highly respected dude. He is not an enormous pay-per-view guy. Like, he never was. In the UFC, I pulled his numbers up. His biggest one is the Wydenman rematch, which makes sense. That's his million dollars. But, I mean, his last pay-per-view was Israel-Adisina. Care to guess how many that sold?

Less than 200K. And that's easy. It's a guy that we think of as a star in the sport. Like he's not a huge draw. Yes, Jake is, but I do think there's some. I don't know how Jake Paul lasts in this career. And that has always been the question for me, right? Because he can do this as long as he wants his infinite money and he has a will to do so.

But I don't know how long his fan base follows him because nobody from boxing is following him for love of the game of the sport. And the only people who are following it from MMA have this. perverse desire to see him lose. And I don't even think that's like a huge number of people that are invested in this. And so to my belief or understanding of this is that most people are just Jake Paul fans. They were fans of his from something else and they're here to follow this endeavor. But that feels like it has diminishing returns because, okay, it's fun to watch him do this once or twice, but this is fight six or seven.

I don't know how long he can keep doing this thing. And Nate Diaz will bring it back, right? Like, doesn't a Diaz, people are going to care because they know that name the Jake Paul fan base is informed on who Diaz is. But I do think that there are hugely diminishing returns in him continuing down this path. And I think that's probably more to blame than Anderson Silva saying he got knocked out. Daman, I got to say, two to 300,000, at least the way I estimated it, it was better than I thought it was going to be. Like, I honestly thought that was a better number than I thought it was going to be. So your thoughts on his reaction to it and kind of saying that, listen, if Anderson never says the knockout or knock down thing, this is doing 4 to 500,000 pay per views.

Yeah, I don't agree with that part of it. I mean, I don't think people really cared that much. I mean, was it a little bit of controversy during fight week? Sure. But you and I and everyone else knows controversy usually sells pay-per-views, not the other way around. So, no, I don't think it had anything to do with that. I think we're just, I think what people tend to forget about is we're not. an era where pay-per-view is kind of a dying

model. I mean, does it work occasionally still? Sure. When Connor McGregor shows up and fights, yeah, and there's a big Tyson Fury fight occasionally and, you know, Canelo-Alvarez has a fight here or there that sells. But, you know, by and large, pay-per-view is a dying model. It really is. We don't get the numbers

on the UFC pay-per-views anymore. We occasionally do when they do really well, and we do it when we see, like, Endeavour does their, you know, their yearly or their quarterly earnings report. Sometimes we'll hear about a pay-per-view, But we don't really hear about that because I'd imagine most UFC pay-per-views aren't doing a lot either because pay-per-view is a dying business. It has been dying for a decade.

People aren't used to paying $60 or $80 to watch a fight when there's so much other content out there that you can either watch for free or you're already paying $10 a month to a streaming service to watch anyways. So I don't think it's a detriment to the whole Anderson-Silver thing. I think it's just a detriment to, you know, Jake Paul's fan base is very young. When I went to his fight with Tyron Woodley and Cleveland, I think the average age of the audience members, was like 14. Teenagers and young people, A, they don't have money. You know, I remember what I was like in college.

I could barely, you know, scrape together enough money to put together some ramen noodles on the weekend, much less than $60 to watch a boxing pay-per-view. And on top of that, I think, you know, younger people that are fans of Jake Paul are savvy enough to understand there are places out there where you can watch his fights

and not pay $60. I'm not advocating for it. I'm just saying it exists. So the reality is this was, Let me hop into that one very quickly, Damon, to add to your point. I got on TikTok recently, not to do my own TikTok things, but because everyone needs something to do while you're taking a poo. And all my, like, it's been doing it. And I popped on this weekend and like every third thing that I was going to was somebody live streaming Jake Balls and Sincolva.

There were so many of them on TikTok. So. Yeah. So I mean, so like that's the point. Like this was never going to be a five or 600,000 pay-per-view. So we've seen it with the Tyrone Woodley rematch. We've seen it time and time again. You know, the fact that Jake Paul can get 300,000 buys is still impressive because that's still

more than a lot of you, you know, UFC cards are doing. That's more than most boxing events are doing. So it's still impressive. I don't know where this narrative got built that he's somehow going to be selling, you know, $750 or a million, you know, $750,000 to a million pay per views every time he steps out there. He's just not that dude. And he's just not from an era.

where people are going to pump down that kind of money to watch him. So I don't think the Anderson-Silver thing had anything to do with it. I think it just had more to do with people aren't willing to pay $60 to watch a pay-per-view. And I think there's even less people who are willing to pay $60 to watch Jake Paul in a pay-per-view. And it's not because Jake Paul's not a magnetic character or isn't a popular guy. But let's remember, Jake Paul got popular on YouTube. How much does it cost to watch YouTube? Nothing.

He got popular on Vine. How much did it cost to watch Vine? Nothing. How much does it cost to watch TikTok? nothing, Instagram, nothing. These people are not watching Jake Paul because they've been invested in him his entire life. They're watching because he used to do stupid things on the internet and they could watch her for free and laugh and then he'd make money off of advertising on YouTube, advertising on Vine

or whatever the case may be. And he got sponsorships, not because his fans were rabid and decided, oh, man, we want to pay $60 to watch Jake Paul jump out of the back of a truck into a pile of dog crap. That's not what he was doing. That's never been his business. So the fact that he's getting $300,000 is pretty impressive to me. I completely agree with that. We'll move on.

We'll see what's next for Jake Paul. And the other thing about the estimates real quick is MMA fans getting them on board. I mean, you're asking a lot because two UFC paper views in three weeks, 280, 21, not to mention your other bills and things you need to spend money on. It's a tough ask. My fans already spending like a grand on UFC. reviews a year.

Yeah, so many. It's ridiculous. But the point for round two goes to Jedbyshoe, one to one. As we move to one of our favorite topics on the show, how to view the upcoming UFC fight night event. This most recent one on paper, as you heard in round one, kind of yikes in delivery. It was kind of yikes on paper.

Good main event. Overall, not great. This one, UFC Vegas 64. We were supposed to get Bryce Smith. Mitchell versus Bobzar of Loewov is the main event. If Loeb gets hurt, Bryce Mitchell now fighting Ilya to Poria, December 10th. Now we're getting Marina Rodriguez versus Amanda Lamos, which is a main event with some stakes. This card, to me, is better on paper than last week.

Like I said, main event has least some stakes, not what we're originally scheduled to get. Co-Mained is actually really good. And there are some intriguing storylines and questions that I have heading into this card, much more so than Vegas-63. So, Damon, your thoughts on this lineup, which is the... go home show, by the way, for UFC 281. I mean, are there more intriguing

matchups than last week's UFC fight night cards? Sure. But you're also, it's like, it's like measuring bad against terrible. I mean, it's really not a lot that you're, you know, compliment again on. Is it better? Sure. But, you know, that's like saying, you know, that's like saying Halloween ends, Halloween kills is better

than Halloween ends. You're really not setting the bar very high there. The reality is this is a bad card. This is still a bad I mean, you know, when they had, you know, Mosvar and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, you know, Marina Haudrigas and, uh, and, and a, and, you know, and Amanda Limo, she's just not that, you know, it's, you know, probably deserved to be in a title fight right now. I mean, if it wasn't for her split decision lost to Carla Sbarza and everyone liking Janeway Lee so much and her, you know, you know, sending you know, just nasty spinning backfist, you know, you know, by all other metrics, Marina probably would have been in the title fight. But, you know, be that as a mate. She's not. And so she's getting Amanda Leimos instead.

So there's some stakes in that fight, I guess. I mean, if Amanda Lehmos wins and Rodriguez loses, is anyone going to cry that, oh, my God, we lost out on a number one contenders fight because no. I mean, go back and watch the first fight with Carla and Marina. It wasn't exactly the most thrilling contest in the world. And Marina and Zhang Wei, is anyone screaming for that fight? So, you know, the stakes are fairly low. I mean, I like Neil Magny and Daniel Rodriguez.

That's a fun fight. I like Grant Dawson and Marco Madsen. That's an interesting fight. But again, stakes are basically zero. I mean, there's nothing on the line here. What really the stakes are in this fight, the UFC is continuously putting these cards on where they're just daring you to watch.

They're like, let's see how far down the roster we can go to headline a card, and people will still tune in on a Saturday night to watch these fights. Because I think it's really apparent that they're stacking pay-per-views to the Gills now and they want you to pay $80 to watch the pay-per-views, and they really, really don't seem to care much. about these fight night cards because, you know, years ago when they lost a main event like this, they might shift people around.

They might, you know, try to move a fight off a pay-per-view and headline this card. They might take, you know, I don't think they're going to take, you know, Dustaporia and Michael Chandler necessarily, but there's enough fights on UFC 281. They might shift that one a week earlier, but they don't care. They don't care now. They want you to buy the $80 pay-per-view, and they don't care about the fight-night card. So that's what we're seeing here. We are literally seeing the UFC daring you not to watch.

Jed, your thoughts? Challenge accepted. Look, I've been giving the speech a lot on various programs. It feels this isn't a good card. It's fine. And I don't want to yuck your yum. If you're really stoked about this, if you're a big Marine-Hadrigus fan or whatever,

you just have nothing else to do on Saturday nights and you love watching fights. And that's great. Tune in, enjoy it, because life's short, do the things you like. on paper this isn't very good it is probably better than last weeks uh but that's really doesn't take too much as dame was saying for the cream to the top there there's some things that are interesting here um it's just i honestly truth be told part of this part of this is just fatigue there's simply so much of it that even if these fights are fun 46 fight cards a year

There's a lot on top of Bellator, on top of PFL, top of one championship and stuff. And it's, it is just a lot of content to deal with. And so cards like this, which maybe aren't awful, like even in principle, it still just feels less. And dirty secret, dirty truth of it is feels less because the main event. And that's it. Like, frankly, people get far more excited about events to have more interesting main events. And I love Marine Rodriguez. is. I think she deserves to be fighting for a title already. The Strawway Division broke so she didn't get to.

Unfortunately, if she wins this, she should be the first title challenger for Wiley Zhang after Zhang wins the belt on next Saturday. But maybe that won't happen because MMA is a weird sport and nobody seems to care. But nobody cares. And that's the problem. Like, if she goes out here and beats him into Limo, it's a great win and 10 people are going to stand up and take notice. And that's a lot of that's on the UFC for just being dog shit promoters. Frankly, some of it's on the fighters for not being more interesting. I know that you don't feel that that's your job, that your job is to fight and to train. And okay, but you also just have to accept that under those standards, you're going to be the Arnold Allen's of the world, where you're great dude, great fighter,

maybe the best fighter in the world. And we're never going to know for 12 years because you aren't doing the other piece of it. And Marina Houdriguez and Amanda Limo should not done anything to really captivate you. And it's, it just is what it is with this fight card. And so, again, I'm not actually watching. I have Saturday off because UJ is playing Tennessee and I'm going to just be out of my mind. But I will tune in in MMAfighting.com.

It's a great website. And it's going to have all my coverage needs. I can look and see where my bets have won and lost. I can see any of the appropriate highlights, which I'm sure we'll have up. And then maybe on Sunday when I'm nursing a real bad hangover, I will go on DESPN and I'll rewatch maybe the whole event, maybe some of the fights. Because again, there are things here. Mark Madsen, Grant Dawson, that's probably not a fun fight if we're being real, but it's a really relevant, really good fight for what should be a top 15 ranking, basically. Like the winner of that should be universally considered a top 15 lightweight in the world.

The co-made event, I love D. Rod. Daniel Rodriguez, I think he's one of the top World Warth Walthorates in the world. Neil Magny been one of the top World Warth rates for a long time. Great fight. Made event could determine a title challenger. Yeah, that's actually about it though. I was trying to

pull a fourth and there isn't a fourth one. I mean, not a real one. So you got three solid fights in there and maybe some of those other fights turn out fun. Who can say? But I'm not holding my breath

or telling my friends, hey, you guys, drop what you're doing Saturday night. You got to tune into this. This is something to keep the wheels spinning until we get to 281 next week, which is a legitimately awesome card and I'm very excited about. We'll talk about 281 in a moment, but last thing on this, Jed, you mentioned should. We say the word should. We say deserves. And as Damon taught me many, many years ago, and I was breaking into this crazy sport of ours from a media side,

you're supposed to strike the word deserves from your overall. vocabulary. So you're going to be in the UFC matchmaker's shoes right now. Answer this question and give some context to it. True or false, a Marina Rodriguez win gets her a title shot next. Her next fight will be for the belt. True or false? Is this in like real life or in my, my, my, my, I have the magic pen life. This is real life.

Oh, false. That's a shame, but false. in my fantasy world she gets it because I've never seen her lose I know that she technically has a loss on her record but I've never seen it she's not like the world's greatest fighter but she keeps winning and she keeps beating really good people

and at some point she deserves to have her day in court but no Wiley Zhang is going to absolutely obliterate Carla Spars the next week I'm going to tip my hat I was talking with Connor Burke's forehand tune in to No Bet's Bart next week. I'm going to do my second ever all in bet because Wiley Zhang is going to just stop Carla Asparza

in horrible fashion. And once she's a champion, then they're just going to do Rose Wiley again because they've already fought twice and they really want Rose to have the belt. It just seems like that's what is overwhelmingly likely to happen unless Jessica and Drach ends up coming.

and I know she's got a fight booked, but against Lauren Murphy. But, you know, she's kind of flitting around. It just feels like they're never going to give Marina her day in court. And so she won't get one. True or false, Damon? Marina's getting a title shot with a win. False because we live in a world where things are not fair in this sport. And the reality is, I'm with Jed.

Listen, I don't, I know he thinks that, you know, Zhang Wili is just going to curbstomp Carla. I don't go that far only because, you know, Carla does have wrestling and there's a potential she could, she could slow down Jane Wally. But if Carla wins, I mean, did you see the video? Did you see the video, Damon?

It just got posted, so maybe you didn't because it's in our slide. I'm not saying, I'm picking her. I'm just saying there's a chance. I mean, there's a chance here. So, but if Zhang Wiley wins, this is exactly what you said. It's going to be Rosemunis. They're going to do the trilogy there because Rose,

they want Rose's champion. And they're not going to rematch. her with Carlos bars against, they're going to throw her in there against Janeway Lee, and it's a bigger fight. Marina Rodriguez, if she wins this weekend, she better become the biggest Carlos Barza fan. She better be out there with pom-poms at a, you know, a rooting section at UFC 281, because that's the only way she has hope and a prayer of getting a title shot is if Carlos somehow pulls off the upset and meet Janeway Lee.

Because otherwise, what's probably going to happen is Marina Rodriguez will win, Zhang Wei Lee will win and then they're going to say Jessica Andrage after you get through Lorne Murphy you want to come back down to Strawway and fight Marina Rodriguez. There's your reward Marina you got to fight Jessica Androge because that's what's going to happen

There's just there's just No buzz for Marina Rodriguez getting a title shot even though she is legitimately The person most deserving right now And much like Benile Dereush and much like Arnold Allen we don't live in a fair world where wins get you title shots anymore So no false

Probably won't get a title shot Probably won't get it for another fight She'll probably have to fight Jessica Andrage or, you know, Janjohn-Nan or, or again, a rematch, or McKinsey Dern or she'll fight somebody else because I doubt she's getting a title shot. I mean, now that we have sold you this card for Saturday, join us for the People's Pre-Fight Show, 3.30 on Saturday. We'll get you right over the hump to get you ready for UFC Vegas 64. So we will move on here. The point for round three goes to Damon, 2 to 1. Way to close.

Way to close. Did you know how many wins Marina Rodriguez has over top 15 opposition? I'm just looking at this right now. It's like, I think she might have beat more top people than anybody else in division. Janjohn-Jon, McKinsey, Durham, Michelle Waterson, amend Hibos, Tisha Torres.

That's five wins. And she's no closer to the title contention. And she should have beaten Carlos Borsa. This is wild that she is this far away. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ,

built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross-training tread plus at one peloton.ca.

When I got a great deal on a great gift at winners, I started wondering, could I get fabulous gifts for everyone on my list? Like this designer fragrance for my daughter. It's just $39.99? How could I resist? This luxurious wool throw for my sister. This gold watch for my partner? A wooden puzzle for my niece? Leather gloves for my boss? Ooh, European chocolate for the crossing guard?

At these prices, could I? I find something for everyone at winners. Stop wondering. Start gifting. Winners find fabulous for less. All right. So we will, I think everybody's looking at next Saturday. So during the UFC Vegas 63 broadcast, we got the reveal, like the full on reveal of next Saturday's UFC 281 lineup, which includes the way they put the main card together, putting the puzzle pieces in.

We got the two title fights, Adasanya Pereira, as far as a way Lee, which you just talked about. Porre Chandler, Edgar Gutierrez, which is slated to be Frankie's final fight. Dan Hooker versus Claudio Poyas will open up the main card. So, Jed, what do you think? Brian Campbell talked about, like, events that are considered, quote, unquote, majors for the UFC. And November is kind of one of them. MSG, you want to load that up? So do you like this card as a whole for an MSG event?

Is the made card lineup the way you would have put it together? Well, no, just to that in general. because I, on the record, I hate this Frankie fight. I think it's awful, just really, really bad matchmaking as far as I'm concerned. 281 is good as a whole, though. I don't think it's as good as 280. I think there's a really strong argument that, well, I think objectively the main card is not nearly as good as 280.

I think you can make a pretty compelling argument that the rest of the card in total is better than 280. But certainly the part you're paying for in the pay-per-view, not as good. good. But it's still very good. I mean, you've got the Izzy Paheta rematch or three match, I guess. I don't even know if we're calling it a trilogy fight given kickboxing versus MMA, but that fight's awesome. We're going to have a new strawaway champion. That's going to be pretty cool. Pori and Michael Chandler, I'm assuming that ends up in the top five for fight of the year this year, just based on how those guys like to get after it. I don't like the Frankie fight. Dan Hooker,

Cardio Poez is whatever. But still, the rest of the card, very, very good. You know it's good, Mike, when everybody has a wiki. When every fighter on the card is a Wikipedia page almost never happens anymore for UFC events, but you know they've at least given you like real fights between real people with real stakes and consequences and purpose. And yeah, it's just, it's, I would have done something cooler for Frankie Edgar. Dominic Cruz is the correct answer.

I know the crew is coming off the L. It's tough to make that timeline work, et cetera. But this is just the worst sort of matchmaking. Frankie just wanted to fight in New York. That was it. He wanted to do this. And I get that. They didn't give him, like Chris Grunier's might win this fight.

He's a really decent chance to win this fight. I'm not saying he will. But even if he doesn't, Frankie really just gets to go out with a win. Cool. but it's not a win that means anything. Like, no one's going to remember this as a win. If you loses, it's a really, really awful way to lose, and it doesn't build anybody up

because Chris Gutierrez is not a dude you're building a name off of from the Frankie fight. It's like when Alex Morono fought Cowboy. Like, just what was that doing for anybody at the time? It just was a fight that we made. I would have loved them to do something cooler for him for his farewell. Or just give him a total squasher, like just total can. if you're just if you can't find any name that works give him a total softball um and then dan hirker cardi

it's whatever um i would probably frankly have rather had bradredel hanato moikano on the main card so i think that fight is going to be awesome but you know tomato tomato no no real wrong way to eat this rhes damon your thoughts main card i would agree is probably not as strong as 280, although I would say it's close. You know, I would say that, you know, when you got the Chukagian versus Fior fight, that's a really, really bad fight to lead off a main card.

It's the number one contender match, even if the fight's trash. But it's still terrible. You know, Hooker and Poeus is fine. Listen, I mean, I'm an old school guy. I love Frankie Edgar. I agree with Jed. This is a terrible bit of matchmaking. Not necessarily because Goodyear's is going to

wipe the floor with Frankie Edgar or anything, but there's just no interest in Chris Gutierrez. This is all about Frankie Eggers' retirement fight. And the UFC is just demonstrably terrible at matchmaking their legends. I mean, they're just really bad at this. When a guy is like on his last legs going out, they're really bad at matchmaking in this particular instance. They literally just throw, you know, throwing darts at a board and say, oh, Chris Gutierrez, sure, why not? Because we have no other reason to throw this fight together. But it is Frankie's final fight. It'll be cool to see him go out, walk out, so, you know, kick in the

door here in Notorious BIG one last time, you know, rocking on a pay-per-view, he'll actually get an entrance on a pay-per-view, which we don't normally get on ESPN Plus. So that would be pretty cool. Porre Chandler's ridiculous. I mean, that, you know, I know Yon O'Malley was kind of like the equal to this. That is, I think, even potentially a better fight because we know based on history that these two guys are going to go out there and beat, beat each other into brain damage. So it's going to be incredible. You know, the co-main event, listen, you know, I mean, Zhang Wei Lee and Carlos Pars is not the most compelling main event. but, you know, it's a title fight.

And then I'm super intrigued by Adasania. I'm super intrigued by Adasanya and Perjada. But top to bottom, I would argue 281 is a better overall card because when you look at the prelims, the prelimbs are really good. I mean, you got Dominic Reyes coming back against Ryan Spann. That's a really intriguing match of what does Dominic Reyes come back and look like, you know, after such a long layoff and some really tough losses. That'll be interesting.

Molly McCann, Aaron Blanchfield. Molly McCann has had these couple, you know, highlight real knockouts. Aaron Blanchfield is. in my opinion one of the best prospects in the 125 pound division that's a really intriguing fight bradreddell and hinaata moikano is actually a really fun fight like i'm actually really intrigued by that when moikano has been really fun to watch uh since he's gone to lightweight so this is really so top to bottom you know i'd argue top to bottom it's a better card overall i mean you got you got you got um mad frivol and ottman azaitar on the prelives that's a really good fight otman's

undefeated huge knockout power that's a really interesting fight andre petrovsky's on the on the undercard I really like him. He's a really fun prospect. So top to bottom, 281, I think it's better. But for the $80 pay-per-view, I would say it's still not as good as 280. But it's a really good card. And this is one of the times where I would say it's worth buying the card. Like where I look at this card top to bottom, if I was a paying fan, I would say, yeah, this is worth a pay-per-view because this is actually a really good card.

Damon didn't even mention the best part of the undercard. I mean, he mentioned it, but he didn't mention why. why Atman Isatar versus Matt Frivola, we finally get this fight. We've been waiting over a year since they were originally booked, and then the whole what's in the bag. Oh, that's right. The what's in the bag thing. That's right.

For breaking COVID protocols. And they cut him, and then they're like, ah, never mind. You come on back. And they booked a year later. So a year and some change later, we finally get that fight. they need to pull a promo with that one and just put in like just replace a box with bag and do the seven thing have brad big what's in the bag it's it's gonna be my low key banger if you were asking that question like not for any reason other than i think it's hilarious well we'll talk more about 281 next week i'm sure but for time purposes we'll move on the point for round four

goes to what's in the bag a point for jed bushoe it's two to two to two to two What's in the box? What's in the box? All right. So that means we have one more question. One more question. It's a knockout round. Each individual will have 60 seconds to answer said question.

And then you guys can go to the poll. You can vote on who you thought was the victor in this exhibition match between Jed Michoud and Damon Martin. And Jed, you got a win in last week's exhibition match. So what would you like to do? Would you like to go first? or, which like to pass us over to Damon, it's just one question, multiple options,

but one question. Oh, multiple options, so it doesn't really matter. I mean, it's the same question. You're just choosing which one is better. Oh, okay. Yeah, let's just go ahead and go first. Screw it. Why not?

All right. So, Jed, one of the most important things. Does it count anyway? Yes, I've actually taken this mantra into the heck household with my nine-year-old. We have been preaching since the end of UFC 280 to do the thing. Just do the thing. Because the thing is the thing and it's so important to do the thing.

Let's talk about the thing being done since UFC 280 in the UFC's Banimate Division, Jedmishu. I see your face buried in your hands and for good reason. So my question is, I'm going to make this nice simple. Who has done the best job at doing the thing? UFC 280, trying to make the top of this division the most interesting. Is it the champion of the world Al Jermaine Sterling? Is it the number one ranked Sean O'Malley?

Is it Henry Suhudo? Option four is other. One minute on the clock. Your time starts now. I hate that you are about to make me say this, but the only defensible answer is Henry Sehudo. So I want to be extremely clear. I've been really clear in all our other programming.

I don't like Henry Suhudo. I don't want him to fight ever. And I really don't want him to fight for a title because it will not end well. He will just immediate, if he wins the belt, he's not fighting anybody. He's just going to do the Volcanowski end or quit thing again. There's no reason to have him in here. But Sterling has fumbled this in the most heroically awful way in recent memory by not just calling Sean O'Malley and then getting all mad about like people being like,

why are you not doing the thing? People get mad, whatever. He can't be it. And Sean O'Malley is still not even really doing the thing. He's like only kind of tacitly doing it. Like, yeah, well, you know, but like, I'd kind of rather fight Cheeto. And cool, fight for the belt, man, do the thing. Henry is the only guy who's standing on me like, pick me.

I would like to fight for the belt, please. And if Aljo wants to sit out, I will fight sugar Sean O'Malley because that's a big bag of money and a belt. I would like those things. Let me do the thing. all right damon we go to you who has done the thing best since ufc 280 is it aljamaid sterling shot o'malley henry sehudo or somebody else one minute on the clock go well the reality is nobody has done a great job of this you know less less funny uh you know Henry Sehudo's not I mean I just I can't take it his whole Ronald meth Donald thing I mean that's like less

funny Colby Covington shtick. It's really bad. So I'm going to say Sean O'Malley, and I'm not saying it because he's legitimately selling himself, but the reality is he has the win. He has the win, and that's all that should matter. He beat Peter Jan. He beat Peter Jan. That's all that should matter to anybody right now. Split decision or not, he has the biggest win. He did come out and say, you know, I mean, listen, he's had a couple of moments on social media. He did the MMA hour the other day. It seems like he's the most legitimate guy, and he's actually the guy who has done the most to actually get here based upon wins and losses.

So yeah, it's, it's shot him out. It's not the most deserving guy. I mean, he's not really oversold himself, but he did the damn thing at UFC 280, and that's what matters most. All right. So there we go. Three intriguing options.

It's, it's like who has done, I don't know, who is the least wrong? That's kind of the question here. It's not like who's done at best. It's who is the least wrong. I don't know. But we have three guys. This division has,

literally done nothing since UFC 280 because of the champion because of him and I was actually leaning Suhudo a little bit because he at least called out Sean O'Malley I hated the interim idea because it's not going to happen and he's trying is he yeah kind of but he's the only one who looks like he's actively making an effort he's like he's making an effort because nobody cares to see Henry Suhudo fight any of these guys that's the problem like no one is screaming for Henry Suito to fight Sterling. No one is screaming for Henry Suito to fight O'Malley, Cheeto.

That's the problem. He's banging the drum in an empty room because no one is listening. Literally nobody's listening. But effort matters. Just try. But just go. Yeah, just fight anybody, Henry. I'm telling you, go fight anybody.

Go fight anybody. If you win, people will start talking about it. You will get your title shot. But literally, fight fight Song-Yodong. Fight Chris Gutierrez. I don't give a shit. Fight him. That gets you a title shot at my eyes.

Just fight somebody. Yeah, I don't really know why Henry didn't try and fight Frankie. I, that feels like that's actually what he should have done. He's been like, well, Frankie wants to fight at MSG, let's do it.

I'll do it. I'll send them all. That's what I said this exact thing when I interviewed Al Jermaine Sterling a few days ago when we were talking about this and Al Jermaine said he wants to take a break till June, which, you know, I have no problem with that.

He's been an act. champion six months is really not that long of a layoff i said what henry soon was banging the drum for a title fight why doesn't he go on and fight corey san hagan go out and fight cheetah vera and then if you win people are going to be calling for you to get a title shot right now nobody cares nobody cares i will never call for that man to get a title shot that's all i want to show you can't trust him you literally can't give him a title fight you cannot do it you can't the moment he wins the belt he is going to do the exact same thing.

So you just can't ever let him fight for his idol. I want him to fight somebody else. Fight somebody else. Show us you care. That's all. That's all. Fight Max. Fight Max.

Do that, Henry. We don't have anything else to do with Max. That's an idea. That's an idea. If he beats Max, he gets the triple C shot. I like, I think if he beats Max,

then he can fight Volt. Cool. Nobody will argue that. Just fight somebody. Fight Max. I did it. I solved all your problems, Henry.

Clip this and send it. him. All right. Well, vote in the poll. Vote in the poll. Is it Jed, is a Damon in this hypothetical exhibition matchup. We have heck of morning tomorrow, 10 a.m. Eastern, we'll do it again. Preview show for UFC Vegas 64. I'm sure it'll be a long, a long one going down at 3 p.m. Eastern. Saturday, 3.30 p.m. Eastern. We'll have the People's Pre-Fight show. We'll react to everything after the main event. And then AK and I are back on Sunday for some matchmaking on onto the next one. and then it's on to UFC 281 and we'll have some fun things

in store for all of you. So are we good, Casey. We are good, sir. We have a winner. Who wins? Yeah, have a winner. Exhibitions don't go to the judges. You guys obviously haven't watched

enough boxing exhibitions. Sorry, raise both your hands. John Williams, Frank Gore went to the judges. Did it? Sure did. Your winner. today with 60% of the votes is Jedmishu. Jedmishu.

Not even celebrating because it's not. It doesn't matter. It's not a real competition. This is the ultimate fighter. You just want to fight on the ultimate fighter. It's just, ooh, do I get a six-finger contract? Yes. You get a six-finger contract.

You got to keep winning. You got to keep winning. Anything you'd like to say about, you're 2-0. These exhibition matches. Are you leaning towards a comeback anytime soon? I am not. I do have something to say I had hoped that deep in your heart of hearts you would understand what was going on this weekend.

We didn't and we didn't talk about it. So I'm going to shout it out right now because, sure, the UFC's back this weekend. And yeah, 281's next weekend. But also this weekend, Fight Circus 4, baby. It is now on Fight TV. I won't lie. I'm a little bit sad that the cam soda aspect of this has shifted away to a much more reputable website and Fight TV.

But I can only assume it's going to be the same sort of anarchy and lunacy that the other three have been, which if you've followed any of my content for any amount of time, you know that I have been a huge supporter of what they do. Check it out on Fight TV. You're going to at least enjoy yourself, even if maybe it's not the best thing you've ever seen. Do we have, what's, what's, if there's one fight on the car that you, you have to watch? Like what's the rule side?

Oh, it's, it's always the asymmetrical championships. Those are the fights that are the most fun. The two-on-one fights, uh, they've got some other things. They've got a wheel of violence this time around, which is spinning the wheel. Uh, I think that I may have this wrong that they're doing a all kicking versus only punching fight, uh, which is going to be great. So it's just a bunch of lunacy like that and I'm going to watch so you should watch too Fight TV check it out.

And you see Fight Circus always does the right thing. They listen to the program. They take our advice that we give to other promotions and they just they notice that none of these promotions take this advice and they do it themselves because now they have a wheel and the wheel of violence is going to be the

wheel of violence is such a good idea. It's a great idea. There, why are more? Why are more MMA promotions not ripping off this idea? Because Bellator should 100% have a wheel of violence fight. Like they 100% should steal that idea. Who knows? I think honestly, probably because they are, I can only assume loosely sanctioned.

It happens in Thailand. I don't know that there's oversight that's going on. We promote that. If Bellator does it, I'll promote that, Josh Thompson. I'll promote the wheel of violence fight, Josh. Are you listening, Josh? I will promote a wheel of violence fighting Bellator. Get it done over there.

You work for them. Get it done. Also, I want to clarify, because I just pull it up, the kicking only versus punching only is called upstairs, downstairs, only legs and only arms. And it features T.T. Denman, who has been on all three of the other fight circuses in the human cock fighting, which is their kick-only fights.

It's going to be awesome. I mean, this is the event of the weekend, ladies of gentlemen. It really is. We might even cover it. There's a chance we're going to cover this bad boy, and I can't wait. I hope I get the hot tag. If we don't cover it,

1,000% next week's missed fist will just be a fight circus thing because every other fight circus one, aka I have just covered it on miss miss miss. Oh, my God. All right, you can hit the exit music, Casey. We are done. Thank you all for watching. We'll see you tomorrow programming,

the usual weekend kickoff stuff, like I mentioned earlier. For Jed Bishu, for Damon Martin. Mike Hack. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn will take you home. Big shout to Casey on the ones and twos. We'll see you back here next week before UFC 281 on BTL. Good night, everybody. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links, a mixed martial arts studio production. Thank you for watching. Check the subscribe button. Thanks, Esther. I'm Esther Lynn. Happy for being, Yankee.

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.