MMA Fighting - BTL | Is Ilia Topuria No. 1 Fighter In the World? Plus, Pantoja Shines Again, UFC 317 Recap, More

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

At UFC 317, Ilia Topuria destroyed Charles Oliveira to capture the UFC lightweight championship, and did so with ease. After picking up his second UFC divisional title, does Topuria now surpass Islam Makhahev as the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world today? On an all new edition of Between the Links, the panel discusses the fallout of Topuria's incredible accomplishment and performance, if he leapfrogs Makhachev, and if a matchup with Paddy Pimblett is the fight the UFC ends up making. Additionally, questions may include Alexandre Pantoja's sensational title defense against Kai Kara-France, other standout moments from UFC 317, along with topics relating to some of the lingering stories in the world of mixed martial arts. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew for a special Q&A edition of the program. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It was the night before the gathering and all through the house. The host rapid cozy cashmere throw from Home Sense for their spouse. Kids toys for $6.99 under the tree. And crystal glasses for just $14.99 for their brother Lee. A baking dish made in Portugal for Tom and Sue. And a nice $5.99 candle. Perfectly priced just for you. Happy holidays to all.

And to all a good price. Home Sense. Endless presents perfectly priced. To the Vox Media Podcast Network. The iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. Thank you for joining us on this Tuesday, obviously swapping some things up this week

with the holiday coming up on Friday here in the United States. Kind of a crazy week. UFC 317 just happened, and it was massive, and there's so much to talk about from it. You guys have a lot of questions. You guys have a lot of thoughts, a lot of takes from UFC 317. So we said,

what? Why wait till Thursday? Let's just knock this out on a Tuesday, a little under 72 hours removed from UFC 317. And that's what we're here to do. And joining me to answer your questions to get your takes and much more is Mr. Dougherry himself, the climber of all climbers, the one and only. Jed Bishu. Hi, Jed. How we doing? I can't hear you. I muted myself because you always tell me to mute myself before we do the intro thing. and I forgot that. I'm doing great, but for that one little snafu there, Mike,

the climb. She continues, 20 steps down, two thirds of the way, up the mountain. Never thought I'd see days like this. Genuinely petrified moving forward. But at least have a nice week

to sort of bask in the glow. And just be sort of happy about how things are going, because it's going great. All around going great. He had a great pay-per-view. For maybe like the second time this year, we can say that event was awesome. No ifs, no ands, no equivocating, just a great time.

It was a great time. And it's nice when you have a Klein bet like Iliate Teporia, Charles Oliva, not going to the cards. They didn't have to sweat at all. Like there was literally not a bead of sweat that that left your head on Saturdays. It was one that I felt really good about. The only regret I have is I put together a. not the climb parlay of four other legs that were in consideration before I decided on the main event. And I felt really honestly great about all of them.

They all cashed also with ease. So I could be 24 steps up the mountain if I was just a little more bold. But I'm not upset with it because it was such a stress-free Saturday in a lot of respects. And it's nice when that happens. So this is a, this is your show, everybody. We wanted to knock this out. No Casey this week. He is off.

He's taking the day off. So good on him. He deserves it. He got to, he had to sit in that friggin arena in Anaheim for about 14 hours on Saturday night, turned the Jake Paul card. So yeah, take a day, Casey, relax and enjoy. But for now, let's answer some questions.

Of course, Super Shatters get pushed to the front of the line. So let's get after it. Let's see. Josephosa already dropped in about 800 questions. Which one will we go with? All right, I'll go with this one. Because we've answered a bunch of these already. It was announced today.

The annual Abu Dhabi paper will be UFC 321 in October. What do Mike and Jed think the main and co-main will be if they were on the matchmaking team with Dana? So UFC 321, October 25th, Abu Dhabi, daytime MMA, just the way we like it. That car will be wrapped and packed by like 6 p.m. Eastern time, and we love when that happens. My favorite time of the year,

Jed, not only because of that, but usually the UFC puts forth one of their better efforts of the year and trying to build a card and put it together. So if you had to guess based on where things stand on July 1st here in the year of our Lord 2025, what's the main event? What could be the co-main event? I'm going to assume the main event is the Machv taking on Jack Della Madalana for the wealth rate title. I'm not married to that, but they obviously do.

do in general like to see Islam fight at that date. Like he is often trying to fight sort of in that region. It's pretty standard fair. So I thought it would have been really cool to do the, hey, Islam goes back to Australia to fight Jack thing. Obviously that didn't come together. But there is sort of a symmetry now for him being in the Alexander Volcanovsky position where maybe you let him have home court advantage.

as he comes up to try and reclaim his spot atop the pound for pound rankings. I think that that just makes a ton of sense pretty obviously to me. As far as Comain, oh, I don't know. I'm going to say they won't double title fight that. They'll just let that stand on its own. Maybe we'll get a five-round Comain, but I'm going to guess it's not a title fight. Let me just take a look at sort of the rankings

of what kind of would make sense. Um, yeah, if they're not going to double title fight it, I don't, I don't know what you do there. I got nothing for Comey, Mike. What do you got? So, man, because I don't even know what they're, maybe Uncleye of Pashka, if they do want to do two title fights. Well, that'll be the main event if they do it. No, if, if it's Islam mating, they, they'll throw out the heavyweight bullshit. They won't care.

Okay. They've done that before. They would definitely do it in this instance. But I don't think they would even do. Like I said, I don't think. it'll be two title fights if it's going to be Islam Jack. So I think it's going to be two title fights. And I actually think you named what I think will be the main event, even though I don't

think the fan base would be like overly thrilled about it, although one half of that fight makes people very happy. I think Akelai of Yuri will be the main event of that card. I think that'll be the main event because they're going to say, I think they're going to do Islam and MSG. That seems to be the consensus. Islam wants it, his management team wants it. He said that.

And then Tuporia is saying, maybe the end of the year I fight. So maybe we get Tuporia versus Patty main eventing December. So because of that, I will say the co-main event, just because Ankle-live, Yuri is a good fight. But there is a very real chance that the announcement of Ankleiv headlighting a pay-per-view that is usually very stacked will lead to moans and groans. So I will say the co-main event will be for the women's flyweight championship, Valentina Shepchenko versus Zhang Wei Li will be the co-main event. Interesting. I think I'm going to stick with mine, say they're going to do Islam Jack.

And maybe we see Shavkat, right? Maybe Shavkat, they say, hey, buddy, you're just, welterweight's got too much. So maybe we run a Shavkat. I don't think it'll be Blal because Belaw. other people, but yeah, maybe it's a Shavkat, Sean Brady, you know, shit, maybe it's Shavkakamar Usman, you know.

Blal Usman would be fine too. Blal Usman, something in there. Another fight that if something goes wrong, they can plug in one of the guys to the main event, sort of have a, you know, a non-official backup fighter, backup fighter. It's got to be an interesting bill to Abu Dhabi, but I would assume we're going to hear that pretty soon.

Cigar, thank you. What are you hearing about the co-main event for UFC 319 in Chicago, Justin versus Armin. So there's a video that has sort of leaked of Drickus 2 plus C saying, yes, it's going to be great because co-made events can be Justin Gathe versus Patty Pimbled. And it doesn't seem like that's probably going to happen at this point. But who knows, maybe Dana will, maybe that's the fight they have planned. But again, I just think they would pivot.

That's gone. That's, yeah. Could it be? That may have been something they were talking about beforehand, but after Saturday, I think that's gone. Yeah. First of all, so is Gachi versus Armand?

Could that be the fight? 319? I remain very skeptical that Justin Gachi will fight Armand Surukin. I know you guys talked about it on to the next one as a fight that would be great and, you know, is possible. I won't say it's 0%. I think that that is just a hard sell to get Justin Gachi to take that fight.

Definitely going to have a hard sell. to pony up some cash. Probably going to have to give him a title guarantee, though I guess if he beats Armin, it sort of would be an implied guarantee anyway. I just also think that, like, it's kind of a waste. Gagee can do, can fight, like, because Armand might beat him excitingly, but there's also just a high likelihood of Armin is like a guy who makes Justin Gichi not fun. And so, like, why waste one of the final Gaichi fights on that when Gachie could fight Dan

Hooker, you know, do that thing? So I remain really skeptical that that will be the case. Armin and Hooker kind of jawed back and forth on social media today. So I'm trying to draw with everybody he can. He's trying to get himself in there. Dude, go fight. If he can fight dad Hooker, I'm sure he'd be more than okay with that.

I think he just needs one win and he gets a title fight. Obviously, Gates you'd be the better name to have on the resume, of course, in this conversation. But you just fight anybody, man. whoever they offer you, you take it. But Justin Gachie, and I'll be stunned,

unless they give him a big bag of money, dude ain't fighting in seven weeks. He's just, or six weeks. No chance. I think there's zero chance that happens. Yeah, I, it's really unlikely. I won't say zero, but it's close to zero. Yeah, it's like one percent.

But again, if they offer him a big bag of money, they offer him another like 100K,000. K, maybe he'll do it. The thing is, they're just, like, you just heard Dana on Saturday. They're not inclined to do that. It's the same thing I said about John. Like, they're just not inclined to pay out the ass for anything. And even though John asking for money was more than I'm sure Gates you would ask for,

like Dana was like, well, sounds like he's talking about retirement. He should just hang it up. They don't give fuck. They just don't. They're not going to make exceptions here, even for a guy who has bailed them out numerous times and is universally considered one of the first. the most exciting fighters who have ever breathed air. So he's going to have to fight somebody,

but he at least has some agency there, and I just can't imagine he would accept an arm and fight. Agreed. We'll see. I mean, that'd be a good, that'd be a badass fight. I would enjoy that very much. But yeah,

as we say time and time again, the UFC does not need Justin Gagee. They don't need Armin. They don't need anybody. They would probably like to keep Iliots-Pory around for a little while longer, but other than that, they don't need any of these guys and gals, none of them. I mean, they don't need LIA either. Yeah, I mean, they don't need him, but it's nice to have him right now

because he's the closest thing they have to cross over superstar in years, really. Yeah. Forrest, we touched on this last week, but now that it's all played out, who had the most to lose at UFC 317 and who had the most to gain? my answers don't really change but where are you at now um my answer changed because i think i think we talked through it and i got there in the end but i thought brayne or we've all had the most to lose i also do think he lost a lot of what he could lose not all the way because the fight was so exciting that he's not like totally up a creek up a creek without a paddle right now but like

this guy was the number one contender he is no longer that um and just given the landscape at 125 and how quickly it is changing. Like, if they do, as you guys threw out on onto the next one, I listened. If they do the Cop Kykar-France thing and cop wins, well, with all this behind cop in the title picture line. So he lost a lot. And I think that that is probably true. As far as you had the most to gain, it was, I think it was Ilya Tepuri, obviously. And he gained it all.

I mean, it's a guy who's now broadly. I don't know. I haven't seen our update. I haven't looked at the math internally yet on whether he will move to the number one pound for pound spot. I think he will. He did the UFC's. I'm not sure if he's going to make it an hour.

It's going to be real close. I think he is going to just kind of a cursory look, but I'm not the math guy. That's AK. But, you know, move to the top pound for a spider, top pound for pound fighter spot in the world, already set up his. next thing gained 10 million Instagram followers or whatever the hell he did overnight.

And just sort of even if even if heading into this, everybody thought this would happen. And I certainly did and was talking about it all week. He's going to kill Charles. You know, these outcomes are foregone conclusions. It still did end up happening, right? Where he on Friday was one of the budding stars of the promotion and probably about to ascend. And on Sunday morning, he is the face of MMA currently. And so he obviously had the most to gain.

And even though, like, the road to gain it was, I don't want to say easy, because Charles Lale, there's a hard fight, like, in general. But, you know, he was a minus 450 betting favor or whatever. Like, this was the expected outcome. He still did it and still gained all that could be gained. So I think he's an obvious answer in this regard. Yeah, that's not a bad answer. I think most of the losers Charles Olivera because he ain't getting the title shot again.

Like that was it. If you wanted to be a two-time champ, he got his opportunity. If Max wins, he gets a BMF title shot next. Well, yeah. I mean, that's fun, but it's not the title he wants. And he has already had the lightweight belt. Now he gets to BMF, that's a fun thing, you know. More belts.

But he wants the world title. But that is never getting that. That's off the damn table now. And most of the game to me is not have gone into fucking Ilius punches with this. chin straight in the air if you wanted that. And the man who had the most of gain, gains outside of, I mean, Ilya gained a lot too,

but it's Josh Vad, man, Jesus. This guy goes in there, has a fight of the year with Brandon Roybal, gets the UFC, tells him to sit cage side, like go change, take a quick shower, put on your Jenko shorts,

sit down cage side, and get in there and face off with pants. And he did. And look what this guy's done. It's just an incredible run that Josh Vand is up. And now this man is about to fight for a world title before this year is over. So hell yeah, good for you, Josh, fan.

Jesus. What a run this guy has had. You could also make an argument for Patty Pimbled who did not compete, but went from being unranked by some MMA fighting global rankings slash being the number 10 dude in the UFC lightweight rankings to having the inside lane for a lightweight title shot. He certainly gained a whole lot without having to do. anything. Just be there. Yeah.

Okay. Chase, I understand the UFC builds fights around their schedule of making Ilya versus Patty outside of Europe as promotional malpractice. I don't I sort of agree, but not entirely. I think that it would be really cool to do that fight in England just because

it's like Patty Pimblech should basically always fight in England. And even if Ilya is the A side of that fight, like Like, it's a cooler thing to go to England and, you know, up in Patty Pimbled in his backyard. That's sort of the legend stuff. Like, that is, that's what it. When Islam called out Volcanovsky after winning the belt, that was the pitch. He's like, look, I'll fight the number one pound for pound fighter in the world in his backyard.

Patty ain't the number one pound for a fight in the world, but it is still really cool. So if I had my druthers, I would say that fight should take place in England or Spain. they're not going to Spain we could talk for a very long time about them not going to Spain and just how stupid that is it's very dumb and it's pretty transparently

because Spain is not going to pay them a $20 million site fee or whatever because if there was any logic at play they would put that motherfucker in a stadium in Spain and you'd have zero issue selling out like anything anything at all like they should

just be doing it in the Real Madrid Stadium but they're not going to. In the absence of that, England would be the second best choice and the first real choice because it's the only one they would go with. I do think that that is possible, right? Like, I don't think that this is a lockstock anything. I also think it would be totally fine to house this fight in the fight capital of the world because this is where all the biggest fights that will take place for the most part is Las Vegas.

And so this, would that be as cool as, you know, doing it in London? Nope. Still, Las Vegas, big fight. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. And the problem with doing it in London is, A, it'll happen at like 6 o'clock in the morning their time. And B, the people you would want there for the ambiance are going to get priced out of that card like it's going out of style. So it won't have the same oomf as it would have maybe three years ago, consider.

how the UFC's business model is when it comes to putting asses in seats. So, yeah, honestly, like, both those guys are so over everywhere right now. If, honestly, if the UFC could pump in a second pay-per-view in Miami this year, that'd be a damn good place to house that one. It'd be a real good place to do that. Because Patty was super over there, too. Patty's over everywhere, man. Patty is just wildly popular.

And Ilya's not over in the same loud crowd response way, but really is getting over. Yeah, for sure. What happened to Vittori versus Allen in New Orleans? It's happening.

I was saying, does that not happening? No, it's happening. It's just, they showed the main card graphic and it's not on the main card, but there's,

that's dumb. Well, is it going to be the most thrilling fight? Probably not. I mean, that's true. But like,

is that going to be your, is that, oh, that's even worse. You're going to bore people before the pay-per-view, at least, hide that motherfucker, you know.

Put Kevin Holland, Daniel Rodriguez as your future prelim. That won't be boring. What is the main? It's like Max Holly Porre. Gautier, Robert Valentin, Paul Costum. Again, a ridiculous fight to have on the main card, but Gautier is going to kill him, so it's fine. Michael Johnson, Daniel Zell-Huber.

Bangor. They only have four fights listed on the main card. E. Gay Pitbull is there. Oh, yeah, that's going to be the thing. That's going to be the co-main. Yeah. That'll be the co-man. So, yeah, it's a card.

Find pay-per-view. Yeah, it's a card. Main event should be great. Co-main will be fun. Yeah. The whole thing is just going to be, it's just going to be essentially a farewell to dust and Porre. Like, it's going to be,

the whole, all the things between fights are going to be Porier, best moment type thing. Like, it's just, it's a swan song card for him. Yeah. And that's perfect. Yep. We support.

Mike Jedd what do you think about next week's fight card in Nashville it isn't bad in my opinion there's some fighters on there that I'm on so here it is Jed I will uh I'll let you pick we're you know off the top of the mind whatever scale you want to rate this on uh here's how we currently stand the main card headline by Derek Lewis Talison dechera co-main Stephen Thompson Gabriel bonfeme Vitor Petrino Austin Lane in the featured spot Calvin Cater Steve Garcia main card fight judeutoffa tuccoe

tuccoes main card fight Nate Landware Morgan Sherriere and then we go to the prethums Lauren Murphy Eduardo Mara Fatima Klein Melissa Martinez Jake Matthews cheating Jukwani

Chris Curtis Max Griffin although Curtis might get a temp suspension perhaps for the incident on Sunday Undeniably Absolutely undeniably

he and Sean Shirklim should both be suspended for a year They should absolutely be sussied Whether that will happen, God knows, but ludicrous. We also have Kennedy and Chichikou, Walter Walker, and Mike Davis versus Mitch Ramirez. Your thoughts on UFC Nashville. It's really looking like a three, maybe three and a half fart card.

And that's like a bad three, three and a half too. Because like Derek Lewis Towson to share a definitionally is an above replacement level fight. Talking about ranked heavyweights, but it's not a fight. people are like excited to see even if it is Derek Lewis who people like so uh look main event it matters certainly if talus and wins maybe there's something there uh co-main event matters you know gabriel bumphy i'm getting a cracker to sort of continue this sea change you're seeing in 170 pounds stephen thompson trying to fight off the reaper as long as he possibly can calvin cater steve garcia that's great fun so you're like it's great

terrific matchup. Best fight on the card, certainly. And Nate Landre, Morgan Shariye is probably going to be fun because Nate Landre is a psychopath and Morgan Shariah is pretty good. But outside of that, the rest of that's all replacements.

And so just like interchangeable with anything that happens. Lazybed. With Icarol Scaroff out versus Bruno Ferreira on the upcoming New Orleans card, does the UFC find a new opponent for Bruno Ferreira or keep the pairing and rebook it?

Uh, I don't, I mean, feels like they can just find a new opponent, right? Like, is that, hey in there. Put anybody. It's fine. Who cares? He was supposed to fight on Saturday. The weight miss thing happened. This is a middleweight fight.

Chuck him on a pay-per-view against Bruna Faheda. Good opportunity there. Yeah. We're not trying to, like, build Bruno Fahedda and a real, got to keep this matchup together. It's not. Just let him go in there, bomb on some dudes. Yeah, that's it. And that'll be a fun-ass fight because Jackson-McVey is also a psychopath.

So we like having psychopaths fight each other. Terrific. What else we got? More reference on this Nashville card. Nashville is four hours away. I have family in the area. I could easily go and attend that event and work it. And I am not doing it if that tells you how it would be minimal lift for me to go work that event.

And I am not intending to do so. So that should tell you how great it is. If you live in Nashville, fine, depending on what tickets cost. and their tickets are wildly expensive for stuff. I like the arena. I have covered Nashville cards at Bridgetown before. It's not worth it to me. Yeah.

Oh, it'll be fun. It'll break records. They always do. They always find a way to break records. They're very, very good. Very good at breaking records. Second generation M.A. fighter, Kennedy Freeman sets her make your UFC debut against Eunzi Duben in Paris.

Ben returned to her contender series form, but does Freeman get an easy layup debut? Let me pull up my writing on Eunice to Ben, because I don't remember how I graded her. I think I liked her coming off. Let me find where the words... Oh, I did like her. She's a little old, but I got decent enough.

I know nothing about Freeman, so I cannot speculate to how that'll go. I've done zero work to this. Also, how could I? This fight was announced like this morning, I think. So no idea. In the dark, I'd pick an easy because I did think that she showed some promise

coming off Contender Series, but I'd know nothing about Freeman. Yeah, I mean, you do have been lost to Carly Judiz, who's been absolutely. I loved off contenders series. And she's fighting at 318 too, which is going to be electric as hell.

I mean, Freeman's, like, Freeman's good. She's just fought nobody. And that's always the concern when you have Cage Warriors fighters, like making the leap to the UFC because most of the time when that happens, they're not ready. Like, Sean Abandon is, like, getting wins, but, I mean, she's beating the worst of the worst. And they're just not, like, even mid-level fighters.

honestly like and i'm not trying to sound like a jerk but like if you watch the last fight that john abandoned had like it wasn't thrilling like the finish was cool she got hurt and she came back at one but it was just like a low level fight that she went and won so but kennedy is talented she she gets a bunch of finishes but she's fought like a bunch of oh and oh fighters a two and two fighter a two and one fighter her last win was like the most veteran perform opponent that she's had for her title fight. It was a 7-2 fighter, but it wasn't like a super highly touted prospect

or anything of that nature. So mileage may vary on her. She's got work to do. So sure, I mean, it's a fight that'll happen in Paris. You got to fill up these slots, and that one's going to do it. So it should be fun.

RS 40, is there anyone other than Armin and Patty that could give Ilya problems at 155? Maybe Joel Alvarez, Oralbi, Hoofee, John Silva also. What do you think? I think a lot of them.

Because here's the thing, like, I'm trying, because I am gaining a reputation about being an Ilya hater, people just don't understand my position here. My position is that Lillia Taboria is one of the very best fighters on Earth and quite possibly the best one currently. I'm not in love of this personality, but that's, you know, your mileage is going to vary on any.

personality of fighter. I'm not also in love with the what's the word like the canonification of him because this run is incredible but there's also a real world or look back and be like he just dusted a lot of old dudes because like wasn't that long ago

that he was putting on a consummate performance like an ass whooping of Josh Emmett but he didn't just roll over Josh Emmett you know like he has kind of done to Volcanovsky. Volcanovsky performance. I mean, Volcanovsky rebounded against Diego Lopez, shows he's still elite, even if he's probably a gear down from where he was.

The Max Holloway performance, obviously the first person to knock out Max Holloway is still an impressive thing. I thought both of those opponents are slightly older and the whole book in the Charles fight that everyone like, it's just tough to weigh because everybody was of the agreement. Charles is older and Charles gets hit a lot,

So this is probably going to go this way, but it still was impressive because Charles is still good and he did kill him. I think that if he makes a sustained run at lightweight, he's going to have problems because that's what happens in every sport. Like every champion who stays in a division and defends has problems because there gets more tape on you.

It becomes harder to deal with. Charles never could have beaten him, and I felt pretty, good about that beforehand and feel certain of it now. But like even in there, you could be like, man, Ilya is really small. Like, he's just not a big lightweight. And so if he keeps fighting a bunch of lightweights in a row, maybe he runs them. He's an amazing fighter that can absolutely happen. But also like, just a big dude with a good chin who can kick him a bunch might just be really hard for him because he is not a natural lightweight. And maybe he grows a little bit more, you know,

like just fills out in general, gets a little bit bigger. He looked like a featherweight to me on Saturday. He did not look like a lightweight. And he's still getting better because that's the other part of this. Like right, I was having this conversation on Twitter. Like right now,

I really comfortably favor Islam Makhachev to beat him. I think Islam just presents a whole host of really bad problems for him at the moment. The biggest one being he's a lightweight and weight class matter. But like Islam is also getting older. And if Islam goes up and jacking, knocks him out or whatever, then that maybe that math changed. Maybe Islam's chin gets cracked. Maybe he's just getting older and Ilya is getting better.

The Ilya we saw on Saturday is the worst Ilya we're going to see for a couple of years at least. And so it just sort of depends on how the breaks go, right? Like I think Armand could certainly be a tough fight for him. I think I'd favor Ily at this point in time, but that would be tough, you know, like just that that's just going to be a hard one. But it's entirely possible that just like random, not like old lightweight who's actually a lightweight just gives him a hard time. Because like Maricio Ruffy is talented and he hasn't doesn't have 40 fights under his belt or whatever. I would love to see him put together a sustained run at lightweight for a number of reasons. But the biggest one being I would really like to understand how good he is.

And I don't have a concept. I know that he is great. I have no concept for how great he is. because of the circumstances of his career right now. I think it's a fair point. Gio, you just got to listen, man. So Freeman is good because O'Bannon is doing well. Those words never left my mouth.

Just want to put that out there. I'm making a point that sometimes, especially with the women's fighters who compete for cage warriors, come up to the UFC too quick and they haven't fought UFC level competition nor anywhere close to it. So it might be a little soon for Kennedy. be really good. I don't know. Kennedy has

fought low-level competition. This will be the toughest fight of her career by a mile. She could win it. She could go and run through this girl at UFC Paris. It's very possible. But she has beat nobody to this point.

So we have to keep our expectations at a reasonable level. That's all I'm saying. So there you have it. It's all good. It's all good. It's just a comparison. I'm not saying she's not Did I ever say Kennedy

Freeman was not good? I don't think I ever said that. Yeah, I don't think I ever said that. So I make sure we're all, we're all good. Gio's just throwing out takes all over the place that,

uh, that are, that are pretty funny. What else? Trying to figure out. People really, or at least one individual is very anti-Patti,

giving Ilya problems. And I, I'm probably on board with that. I, I'm, I'm interested to see the fight because it's a buildup. And again, frankly, I'd just like to see him fight a real lightweight who isn't on the back end of his career. I also have thought for many years that Patty would get cut in half.

And even though Patty has improved a lot and makes that fight like legitimate now in my eyes, I still think he's getting cut in half. I think I think Gilea beats him soundly. But again, you're talking about a dude who doesn't get hurt. I know, but he going to get, he going to. He don't try. Yeah. He's that chin up in the air.

He's going to try and get hurt. Patty's like, Patty's growing into like a grown mad now. Like he's a big some bitch when he's in that octagon as a lightweight. So I am intrigued. I would certainly pick you to win. I would pick you to win. The thing,

I'm like, I was trying to talk myself into a way Charles could win. And I could just never get there. I was hopeful because I just think it would have been funny. But I just could never talk myself. The way I can, I can talk myself into a Patty win. I don't think it's realistic,

but it could absolutely be a Connor Nate Diaz thing. Really, it just comes in and he's landing the right hand over and over and over again. And he's like, I'm going to knock this dumb ass out. His chin's right up in the air. And then suddenly it's the second round and he's thrown heater after heater. And he's just fucking tired from bashing Patty's head in. And Patty's still just been like, what's up? I'm here.

And then getting him down the stretch. I that is at least that's a path I can see there never was really a path for Charles in this one that even if that's a super narrow path at least I could be like well maybe this happens and then it won't but maybe the Ilya stuff I mean just there's no gray area at them no it's not that's or you think he's that's one of the reasons I'm honestly like already just tired of it he he just is the second coming of Connor only in like he's he's arrived in a much worse atmosphere like when Connor came there was all this the it was he's the greatest fighter who's ever lived or he sucks but at least it was in an

atmosphere where other good things were happening and people were optimistic now it's ilia is going to be the greatest fight who's ever lived and if you say anything other words fuck you or he's terrible but it's mostly in the former camp because because there's nothing else to gravitate to. So everybody is just like desperately, desperately, desperately latching to, I mean, reasonably like the brightest star in the sport at this moment. And they're not like, just try and be like, hey, man, these are all great wins. They are all kind of old and people like, you eat shit and you die.

Although I agree with, with geo here. I'd rather see Armin versus Teporia now than Patty Tuporia. If you took out all the business aspect out of it, I would like to see Tuporia versus Usman or Magamadoff. First of all, you're not going to see him in Usman anytime soon. I mean, that would be incredible, but yeah. I would pick I would pick him. Oh, yeah.

But Armin, but Armin, I would love to see that fight. That's the fight I wanted to see when Ilya said I'm not fighting at featherweight anymore. There's not a lightweight on earth at this moment in time. I would pick over Ilya unless Islam comes back without going to welterweight. Then I would pick Islam. But otherwise, like I'm, he's an incredible. that math changes. If they if that's a fight two years from now, I'm probably picking Ilya, right? Like it's he's incredible and we haven't seen a lot of

struggles like there are moments in every fight. You can take spots from the max find like, ooh, this is maybe a way to do. And then Max got walked down and can slumped, you know, and like Charles got slumped. Though, but there are, eventually there will be like he's not going to do this to everyone because no fighter does. No fighter in the history of the sport has killed. everybody immediately without issue. John Jones, the vaunted and Lord John Jones, struggle with Alexander Gustafsson.

I was around for that fight. I promise you, this is no bullshit. The actual honest to God promotion for that fight was Alexander Gustafsson is tall because that's the only thing they could grasp to be like, maybe he'll, and then he showed up and goddamn, he damn near beat his ass. Like, that's just, it is the part of the game

that fighters seem to be even more, cognizant of now that the longer every every fight is a dice roll even if the dice are loaded in your favor and you've got five to one odds to win every one of them is a dice roll and the more dice rolls you take the more chance for some shit to go weird on you and ilia certainly seems to be aware of that and he is crafting his career very carefully uh as a as a part of that and god bless him that is the best way to maximize money but if he just says screw it i'm going to settle in a lightweight, I'm picking the under three and a half title defenses. I would not think he'll set the lightweight title defense record if he settles in

because it's just really hard to do. Over under three and a half more fights for Iliate Tuporia, period. Over. You think so? Yeah. For sure. I'm not so sure about that. Maybe.

I hope so. I hope he fights more than. The only way I think that it would be under is if he beat. Patty and then the UFC Islam has the Walter way belt and the UFC says okay go and he knocks out Islam to win the Eleanor way belt then yeah he's done because why would he ever fight again but anything less than that

he's probably losing at some point in time and so he'll just keep fighting because then once that once the the weight of the loss is gone and it's like oh my star power can sustain this you know or he'll do the Connor I got to get right there oh Patty beat me because he has attributes I got to get right back in there and beat him or whatever it is. If we get fewer than four fights with one of the best talents in the sport,

and he's 28 years old and the champ champ, and Luke Thomas made this point, which I do believe is true, probably the greatest start to a career that's ever been. And he only fights like three or four more times. That'll be a stone cold travesty. Yeah. But it's possible because, again, he is, he might be the most well outside of like Connor

MacGregor he might be the most well known globally known UFC fighter and since Connor like he is a he could not fight he could retire today and still be a megastar in Spain for the rest of his life and still make a shit ton of money more money than he would fighting in the UFC frankly

well that's yeah but the question is what would he do like I I don't know like I know he could do other things, but there's that old phrase, you make the main thing, the main thing. The reason he got here is beloved is because he's a fighter. And unless he's also like an incredible actor or something, I, I'll be really surprised if he has like fewer than eight fights. Like, if he's not, he should have at least eight fights. And that feels like I'm even being low.

Yeah, I think, I think it's going to be like five at the most, honestly. I just think he does when it's time. And yeah, I think he'll just accomplish what he wants to accomplish. He'll be like, yeah, I'm done. It's not like he fights all the time. He just fights like once or twice a year and does this thing, wins. And then he does it right. We miss him enough when he comes back.

We're all excited to see him. He evokes emotion for us. And then he leaves for a bit and then he comes back again. Like, I'd love to see him fight before December, but that's probably what he fights again. And at that point, he's going to do everything he can to get. this Islam fight and if he gets and beats him then like there'll be like in at least in his eyes there'll be nothing left for him to accomplish so he will beat feet at that point which will be a shame

but i just don't buy like that that's all totally logical i've met two logical fighters in my entire life have nothing less to accomplish just want to beat people up and they they crave the stardom it is the that is it is an addiction to make the walk through the cage Like there's a reason fighters don't retire. I'll be stone cold flabbergasted if this dude's not fighting well in his 30s. I hope you were right. I really do. Josh Emmett rematch.

I mean, how good is Josh Evan? That dude's tough as shit. Gizaliyat Taboria beat that ass for 25 minutes and I sat 12 feet from it. That was about as big of an ass whooping as you will see. But Josh Emmett is just incredibly tough to take that kind of a beating and not get fined. mission that fight. Pretty much. And that's it.

Like, and that, when I am looking at reasons to think, Ilya, this generational run won't just go on forever. It's like, yeah, he, it was never close to losing to Josh Emmett. But Josh Emmett is not remotely the fighter that Volk or Max or Charles are,

like historically. But he's a tough son of a bitch. And like, sometimes, like, you're just going to run into a tough son of a bitch and have a off night. And then it's can you find a way to win when that's happening? And right now he's yet to really face that.

And I don't know if you ever will, but the odd suggests in this sport, eventually you find people like that. He's mentioning Yusuf Zalal as well. But, you know, took that fight on like a week's notice against Yusuf. So this is a UFC debut and he won that fight. Also, UFC's debut is just don't. they don't even matter. It's just like,

as long as you get the win. Also, that was a long time ago. Where's Shama, where's Yuri? Who tweets for Big Ang? I think we all know who tweets for Big Ink. Yeah,

we all know. And we all know who tweets for pretty much his entire stable of fighters. Alex Pereira is currently in a meeting with the UFC as they are trying to talk him out of the very dumb idea of fighting Uncle I have for no reason. Yeah. And Yeri is.

in the woods looking at his newly earned degree from college university, whatever he graduated with, waiting for the UFC to say, Alex finally conceded, he's going up to heavyweight year fighting for the belt. Or I guess waiting for the phone call that says, I guess you're fighting Carlos Olberg in the co-main event of whatever.

Maybe that's it. Maybe it's Ankleiv versus Pereira in Abu Dhabi, and the co-main is Carlos Alberg versus Yuri Prakashka. Yep. That would be stupid because Alex should be fighting Tom. But so it goes. They'll pay him. Everyone saying he's not a global star and no one said he was, but he's very close.

It's the closest thing to Carter being a global star. And by the way, Ilion of the definition of global. Yeah, Ilya passes the public's test right now, which is just true. Passes the bomb test. When I get, I got more people asking me about Iliate Siporia than the last time I got asked so much about a certain fight or fighter. It was when Jake Paul fought Mike Tyson.

It wasn't the same, but it was, it's 100, 100%. 100%. This one, this one broke through to a broader audience. I mean, I don't know what your definition of global star is. He has like 11 million Instagram followers. he is a king in Spain and well-liked and well-known here in America. That's global. Yeah, Europe. I suspect that, you know, there's not a lot of folks, you know, deep in the heart of Africa who are big Ilya fans.

But I don't know that that's true of anyone that's not named like Cristiano Ronaldo or some shit. So like, it just depends on your definition because across the European continent. people know him at the minimum, whether he's beloved or not. And certainly here in America, he is well known. He is one of the most well-known active UFC fighters. I'm hearing Yuri versus Olberg in September. If we get that fight, then that means, I don't know, man, Kaleel Roundtree versus Yuri would be fun as hell too.

The fight for Alberg is Dominic Reyes. Like I've said this a billion times and I stand by it. Dominic Reyes versus Carlos Oliver, because either Carlos is going to kill him and knock him dead, or Dominic Reyes ends his streak and beats him, and then you could give him a title fight. And what a story that would be.

You could build this thing up in such a big way. So that's how you book Carlos Over. Like you got to make him, if Carlos is going to fight for a belt, he's got to look good in a fight. You know what I mean? Like he's winning, but that Janbovovich fight was one of the more forgettable fights of the year.

You're just mad because Jan Bolhovic ruined your fantasy season. I hated that draft pick. It was so bad. I literally had no choice because there's only like 22 light heavyweights and these ones are gone. So I might have to draft Alvin Hines as my wild card. Just for that, just for the hell of it. I like it.

What is what Ilya is doing right now? Connor already did. It was doing it at a much higher level. he sure wasn't um if you want to uh i obviously and for i think reasons that are fairly clear do believe that connor's knockout win of josialdo is better than anyone ilia has because josaldo is in my mind like at worst the third best fighter who's ever lived and i mean at worst when i say that and to kill him in 13 seconds not just like to the physical but like of doing that but like setting that up over months of needling him and just being like, I'm going to get this

dude to run recklessly into me and get killed. I think that is, but that's also one of the best wins in the history of the sport, like a genuine paradigm shifting win. So that's sort of an unrealistic expectation to hold anyone to. Beating Eddie Alvarez is, it's probably, it's probably on par, I guess, with the oliver fight if I'm really having to think about it. both were clean dominant wins. Eddie was the champion at the time,

even if Eddie is historically not as good a fighter as Oliver is. But like the max kill is the one that's just like beating Chad Mendes ain't the same. And also between the Eddie fight, there's a whole little thing about Nate Diaz whooping that ass. So it's just not, no. Connor, straight up, Connor was not a great. fighter Connor was a great promoter and a very good fighter and could have been a great fighter

and really had terrific timing and like this is my thing about Ilya i'm really confident ilia is a much better fighter than connor mcgregor like a much better one pillator post i have no doubt in my mind i tweeted yesterday at almost any point in their careers if you pick the best connor you can find versus the worst ilia you can find i still think ilia has a really good chance to win that fight. Connor, everybody was acting this way about Connor. And then Connor took some time off and then came back and he was just fighting good dudes who were prepared for him and didn't die when they got bombed on him in the first round.

And suddenly he's just getting his ass beat almost every time out there. I don't think that will happen with Ilya whatsoever. But we can't just say that he's going to kill everybody. We need to see it. because maybe that does end up happening. You got to fight the fights. Otherwise, BJ Penn would be the greatest fighter who ever lived because you could say, well, BJ would have beaten everybody

for a 10-year period at lightweight and under. But he didn't. And that's just the name of the game is you got to fight him. And so this is ridiculous. Ilya is much better than Connor ever was. People are not liking this take, Jed. It is like, like, he is a more talented fighter than Connor McGreg.

I cannot stress to you enough. that every person who is smart about this sport will agree that Ilya is a much better fighter than Connor was. Oh, it's not comparable. Yeah. Five tool. He's a five tool player. Connor isn't.

Connor, I mean, Connor's run, it was incredible. Like, no doubt about it. 20, his 2016,

even with the loss to date, like everything before that, after that, up until the Eddie Alvarez win. I mean, lightning, at a bottle. It was magic, man. It was just truly magic. And it was the thing that put, without that happening, the sport is not where it is today. It's just not where it is today. So Connor was so impactful

in that way. But like skill for skill, if we took 2016 Connor and threw him in that octagon with 2025 Ilya, it's not going well for Connor. It just is it. Connor has, if you're being generous, Connor has five good wins. If you're being realistic, Connor has three good. wins in his career. That's just it, man. Like Aldo win, sensational. Eddie Alvarez win, sensational. Chad Mendes win, sensational.

Those are three great wins. Now, you can give him credit for Porier, before Porier got good at fighting win. That was a good win. Yeah, it's still a good win, but that's not Porier, Porier. That's Porier when Porier was mid. And Max Holloway, well before Max Holloway got good at fighting. In their relative peaks, both men would have and to some extent, well, not Max, but Porre obviously did beat his ass.

And at the peak of their powers, Max Holloway would, it's hard to think of a worse matchup for Connor than Prime Max Holloway versus Prime Connor. Like he's got three to five good to great wins. Ilya already has four very good, like as three great wins and a fourth that is very good. Like he is just way better than him. Uh, Peytoe's defended his title four times Ilya once before he moved up. I mean, let's talk about pants because I, like, the fact that he is not being mentioned right now makes me a little sad as somebody who covers the sport because Alexander Pantosha deserves some praise today. This man is just so good.

He is officially the second greatest flyweight of all time. And you can make, you can legitimately make a case right now that he is the best fighter in the world. Like, you can make it and I would listen to that argument. and it's incredibly fair. There's five guys who are absolutely in the conversation. If you want to throw Tom Aspin all in there, might be a little bit of a stretch, but it's certainly an argument you can make.

But Pantosia, man, like this guy isn't even, he's not even breaking a sweat in there against these guys. He's just so good. And he's getting better. He's getting better. It's, we're spoiled right now, Jed, with talent. in the UFC right now. Like we get a bunch of bad apex cars that we get,

there's probably 300 guys on this roster that during the early days, even in 2016, would not be on the roster right now. But the guys who are at on the top, the top 10 to 15 pound for pound, especially the top six or seven, these are all elite motherfuckers fighting in that octagon right now. Yeah, the top six is incredible.

And like you could even squint your eyes and say uncle I have probably deserves a lot more respect than he gets But it'll come right like it's one win one title win You guys are talking on to the next one I do think y'all disrespected Tom Aspin a little bit I didn't put Tom if you want to put Tom Aspen as a one pound fighter in the world I'm actually totally open to that I know that no one will and someone like Casey would like scream about that I don't know what else you can ask a dude to do. Like, if you're saying that heavyweight is just so bad that he can never do it,

okay, I think that that's probably a little unfair because you can only beat the guys available to you, especially at heavyweight. It's not like he can move up to chase challenges. And he's not beating them in hard fought. Like, he's killing them in 60 seconds. Like,

every one of the top dudes is dying instantly. And so, like, to me, that absolutely means like he's in the conversation. You don't want to put it because you favor the others. That's fine. But like he's in the six because what else can like what else could he do? Unless you're just saying he can do nothing.

He is stuck by the nature of life to be. Sisyfcally stuck at number seven or eight because heavyweight is atrocious because he killing them all in under a minute. Like that's just outlandish. So I think he absolutely deserves to be in that mix. Not to spoil alert because we're going to do a ranking spot. Pantosia is my number one ranked pound for pound fighter. Let's go.

I have a couple of reasons for that. I have at Pantosia, Tuporia is two and Islam is three. So both Teporia and Pantosia jumped over Islam. Very briefly, it is largely because I actually think Pantosia does deserve it. I don't have a single issue if you put Teporea number one or Islam number one. Frankly,

if you want to put MRAB number one, I'm open to it, even though I'm less compelled by that. I put pants there because pants, has 11 wins over ranked fighters in his division, and that's just more than like double anyone else. And he's getting better. He's finishing all these dudes.

I know that to some extent, Pantosia suffers from the same thing Tom Aspinall does of flyweight's bad, except while heavyweight is bad, flyweight is not bad. I've never believed that slander even when it comes to the Demetrius Johnson career. Like, well, his division was terrible. It's like no, his division actually rocked shit. He was just better with him.

all of them. So that's how it goes. And I think he just deserves to at least have some time atop the pound for him. Elia has plenty of time. And as this goes on, he'll probably continue to assert himself and be near the top. But there were a couple of other reasons. Also, non-zero percent part of it.

Afterwards, he's like, I don't need to go fight Marab. I don't care about that. I'm the champion. Why do I need to pursue other? I have the belt. Come to me. This is my job and I'll do it. Uh, man after my own heart.

you want to put any of like four or five dudes at your number one spot i'm open to that conversation and i i chose pants and all of that's moot by the way mike because when drickus duplecy dummies hamzah shimai of he will be my number one pound for pound fighter in the world yeah this is this is a tough one for me man i end up keeping islam at one but i almost immediately regretted it i mean i'm just kind of At that point, but like, I think you shouldn't, he would be my argument. I didn't put DePriot 1 as we get to the rankings pod. I thought everyone would agree.

And that's not the case. To me, you should definitely put Ilya above Islam because Islam has the chance to take it back, right? And so, like, why not let it, why not fetch Ilya for this accomplishment by putting in atop the sport if that's what you are inclined to do? Because Islam can get it right back when he beats, like, if he fights and beats Jad. Yeah, I mean, I wish, honestly, I wish I could be like, I wish I could have two guys in number one. That's how close this is. And what it came down to for me was, okay, if they booked Islam-Makachev versus Ilya

and this fight was on the books for August, who wins? I think Islamakachev wins, which is why he gets the slight, just ever so slightly nudge up to number one. And I just immediately regretted it. So I'm keeping them there. If Tuporia fights before Islam does and wins, he's number one. Like it's not even, there will not be a question. Ilya will another win before Islam fights. He's number one.

Yeah, but then if Islam fights and wins the belt, what happens then? Does he then move back? Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. That's, that's my sort of stance on pound for pound. I would like it to be more fluid than, ah, this guy has it until he loses it. Like, no.

Like, let's just. have it be reflective of the moment and fighters who are accomplishing a lot. Because like if you look at the graphic went around a lot today because Aaliyah took the number one, the UFC pound for pound spot. The only been 10 men's pound for pound fighters. And you look at that grab. It's like actually, funnily enough, George St. Pierre is not on there. George St. Pierre was never the number one pound for pound ranked fighter in the UFC because

his career prime in large part coincide with Anderson Silva. I'm just like, one, I think most people. agree that George St. Pierre is a better historical fighter than Anderson Silva. Like if you're doing that, it's an open conversation, but I think most people would say GSP ranks higher in that, the goat conversation. And so like, even at the time, it was a little silly that Anderson just had it forever when it could have been swapping around much more frequently. And that feels more right to me because we'll never know of the five, six guys of the top who's the best guy. Like that's it's so impossible to kind of quantify To me it feels like we should just be a little more like oh

This guy is on a really impressive he's finished three dudes in a row That are all top level fighters let's let him hold it for a minute Let's let's make this a little more democratic I don't hate the argument It is a subjective thing so you just kind of base it on what you're thinking But I don't know we'll see how the math plays out and we'll see if islam Makachif stays in number one or Ilya Teporia jumps up.

You'll find out tomorrow morning when all the rankings get mapped out and the graphics come out and all that fun stuff. But just to let people know, peek behind the curtain, Islam, Ilya, DDP, Marab, Pantosia, Aspinall, my top six right now. I know the UFC does not have the same. I think that that should be everyone's top six. Though you could convince me that Ancolaev deserves to be in the mix as well. I have in nine he could be higher but I have been nine

I think that's that's fine I'm behind JDM and Volk I think that's that's fair it's fine yeah but yeah he does get overlooked pound for pound

but some really good fucking dudes up there just some really good dudes it's an awesome awesome little stretch right now of people and hopefully we'll get some long-reigning champions

and everyone won't do that I'd like to fight seven other weight classes, please thing. That'll never know. Straight up, Pantosia, Pantosia became my favorite fight in the world on Saturday. I already really liked him. I'll stand for him forever. Do you want to fight more up? And ironically, that's like the one one I'd be like cool with because like, yeah. One, Pants has actually cleaned out the weight class.

Like the Josh Van fight is basically the exact demarcating line of the next generation that he'll be fighting, which is always cool and that fight's going to rip super in on it. But like, hey, do you want to fight Maraub? No, I'm good. Like, I'd fight him. But maybe we could do it at 130. Like, I have my belt. I'm good with this.

That's, that's everything I want from a goddamn professional champion. I love that. But eventually, like, if he beats Van, do you think he changes his mind? Or do you think he just keeps staying at 25? I think that he could be talked into changing his mind. If the UFC, you know, if Marab beats Corey and they're like, dude, there's just nothing else for Marab. and Marab has pretty explicitly said he's not interested in moving up either. That fight feels like we're close to it happening.

And so if Maraub beats Corey and he beats Van and it's like, okay, I mean, maybe by that time, Mano Kopp has reinserted himself, like he made it to a fight and he beats Brenner-Rovall or whatever. But I could definitely see after those two fights, the UFC saying, hey, man, let's do this. Like, let's give you, you don't have to give up your belt. You can go up and do. this and that'll be cool because at that point he's got five title defenses and if you have five title defenses i'm okay with you getting an immediate title shot up away class and holding on your belt because that's pretty goddamn cool five let me take a look at that because i don't actually know i

think it's like 16 people in ufc history have done that but let me check i know that he became the 21st fighter to uh have more than uh to to to hit four consecutive title defenses 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15. Only 14 fighters have hit 5 consecutive title offenses. So should he beat Van, he will be number 15. Short list. It's an incredibly short list. And literally every, I want to make, so almost every person on this with the exception of two fighters,

are you three, well, two fighters are USC Hall of Famers. But that's Alexander Volcanovsk and Kamar Usman, who are obvious first ballot hall of famers, no questions asked. Pantosia is already a first battle hall of famer. Pantosia has made a case pretty firmly in my mind to be one of the 25 greatest fighters of all time. And if he just keeps going, then he just keeps to keep moving on up and doing that sort of thing. Him and Mrab would be real fun. But we don't need to see it right now. So respect to pants.

for he loved the show and what's up with bryce mitchell moving down i have no idea that this is that is that a thing yeah he's fighting said and ragham right off at 135 did not uh did not know that don't care when you die in two of three fights you should probably move down to division because uh john sylva was obviously much larger and much more powerful than you and Josh Emmett almost ended your life literally. So at that point, maybe if you can make the move down to 135, not a bad idea. But that's pretty much from what I was told is where this came from. The John Silva fight, he realized pretty quickly that he's not a featherway anymore.

So, and I think you talked to James Lynch and essentially said something similar to that, but yeah. I don't know. Don't watch interviews with that man. after a specific incident. Fair. What else we go? Take a couple more that we'll get on out of here. We're talking about heights and accolades for short.

Looking around in there. Yeah, man, pants rocks. And I want everything good to happen for pants. Yeah. UFC is making me mad with this talk. Ilya is the double champ while Volk won his belt. Like both things can't be true. You're still a.

two division champion. You're not a simultaneous two division champion. He is. It's a bit silly that he's carrying around two belts, but you just, you got to pick your battles at some points, guys. And by the way, this isn't the UFC giving him two belts. This is his team giving him the second belt.

Like every guy who does that moving forward is going to bring us, bring their other belts. You don't think Islam Makachep is going to bring his lightweight title. One of his titles that are sitting on his dental to wherever he's fighting. 1,000% he's going to have two belts. belts on his shoulder if he beats Jackdell of Madelayno. Probably. And I would also think that's silly and stupid.

But you just got to pick your battles. And this isn't one like he was a champion in a former division champion in this one now. It's it's it is what it is, you know. Yes. Ilya having the BMF belt is stupid, but that's a whole separate thing. We also like, yeah, he just purchased that with that. Yeah, that's he bought that one, which makes. stupid.

It would be stupid if the UFC gave him one, but it's more stupid that he bought his own. But whatever. Thoughts on Kevin Ioli retiring. Was not prepared for that. But yes, Kevin has called it a career. UFC 317 was the final event he is covering. As a...

I have no thoughts. You have no thoughts. I have no thoughts I would like to share publicly. I was taught as a young man that if you don't have nice things to say, don't say them. Well, that's bad podcasting and not a rule I adhere to for Michael Chandler. I won't be burning any media bridges. No, I understand that. I have no thoughts.

Here's what I'll say. I mean, the guy had a good run, so I'll give him that. personally when I got when I got hired at M. A fighting there were some well-known media members who publicly took to Twitter and shit on it. They were like, who the hell is this guy? He doesn't deserve this. I deserve this more. It was me.

I did it. Yeah, but see you got there. And we knew it. I was just shitting all over Mike. Yes. And I won't mention this person's name. But it was not Kevin Ioli. And there are a couple of people who, like, responded, you know, positively on Twitter.

Hey, congrats like you normally do. Not a lot of people like reached out personally and like made an effort to send me like a nice message about it. Kevin Isle who is actually one of them. So I really appreciated that. And then I met him once in person covering UFC 276 and he came up to me, said very nice thing, shook my hand. And he was always very nice to me. So that is that's what I will share. Well, that's great.

I want to be clear. I, I have had zero personal interaction with Kevin. So I don't have any thoughts on his retirement. I wish everyone the best. Yes. Be well. Be well.

And I think that's, that's it. Yeah. No, we got to find something else to finish on. Okay. You don't want to. We can't finish on that.

Somebody give us some reasonable question to end. Yeah. Give us a. mixed martial arts question. That's not illy is too small or people should retire when they get old. You know,

but what is old? That's a, what is old? It's a piece of mind. It's right. State of mind. It's a state of mind. All right.

Give us something. A fight announcement, a rumor. No. Did they talk about Robocop's criminal hammer fist, Mike? that's a good one to end on we love to talk about robocop yes and more importantly herb dean

oh yeah so we did uh we did a column we do it after every event that that we started and by the way jed and our editor are very happy that our blurb reviews are actually staying blurb reviews i'm so proud of you guys that took us that took us like six tries to get our word count under five grand but everyone's doing way better now. I'm proud of everybody. Yeah, we've cut that in half. So I'm pretty proud. One of the questions was

who is the biggest loser of UFC 317 and I went with hokey pokey herb. Because Herb Dean Herb Dean is going to get somebody killed in there and it's just so frustrating to watch because hokey pokey herb, I gave him that nickname at the end of 2020. That's what it all started.

and he has just regressed more and more with his inability to make split decision calls. He just won't do it. Like he's so, like, hesitant to do anything. And, like, you can't yell, stop and expect a fighter and just be like, oh, okay, Mr. Dean, you have to go in there and tackle that man. Like, you're going to run full speed and knock that man on his ass. Like, Gregor Rodriguez is not going to be upset with you. It's the nature of the beast.

But a fighter is not going to stop until you physically remove him from his. opponent and you didn't do that and it's your fault like jack her bansson being hurt like that is 100% his fault i do not blame robocop whatsoever for that extra follow-up shot is not on him at all it is 100% on herb d now as i said to be fair robocop drilled jacker bansson and there's a very real world where that one shot where herbansett's head slammed on the campus if herb dean went full speed and tackled Gregory Rodriguez before that second punch landed. There is a world where Hermanson still would have been out for that long. But the fact that we don't get the chance to know the answer to that question is why Herb

Dean is at fault for this entire thing. Like he is going to get somebody really, really hurt in there. And, you know, if you want to keep training refs and going over rules and things of that nature, fine. But it's getting to a point now where you got to think about the safety of the fighters, man. Like, I know he's a veteran, but he's a good dude, but he's losing, he's lost two steps over the last five years. Like, this is unacceptable. I think that's one of his worst piece of work.

And he's been a bad ref, but that one, like, you just watch the replay. He, he's trying to go the, like, long end around to get in front of Robocop to stop him when, like, he could just tackle him on a straight line, just, like, shove him off and prevent that being thrown. own. Ultimately, one extra shot is never like the worst thing, but it is bad. And the fact that Hermanson was down for like close to five straight minutes after. Like, that was a really scary one. And I think even Herb would probably look at that and be like, I, I did not do well there. Because he didn't. That's just a really, really poor stoppage on his part. The first job of the referee is always to protect the fighters. And he absolutely did not protect Jack Armanson. And that's situation.

And so, yeah, it's, I don't know what to do about it. There's no recourse. The only referee is, you know, Mario Masaki. And that's just because the UFC refused to work with him anymore. But like, there's, they don't, they don't do anything to refs. There's not, which is an insane thing because it doesn't feel normal for any sport to just be like, these are one of the most important people involved in this whole thing. and there's no oversight really at all here.

So I don't know what has to happen, how it will change other than Herb will just get a podcast with Josh Thompson and then quit Refing or whatever. Like I don't know Josh Thompson's unavailable. So maybe it's Gilbert Melendez and Herb Dean start a podcast together. And that's how they do it. But I do think the sport would probably be better of Herb made his way out of it at this point, given how frequently. usually the bad is not damaging to the health of fighters in this instance it was pretty poor i don't know man josh thompson's out here calling for fights with nate daz i don't know if you've seen that i did see that um look you got to sometimes you got to pay some bills mike you know

that's uh i'm sure for me to stand in the way of man making money yeah you know who doesn't have to pay a lot of bills nate dyes because the man knows how to make a buck and I don't know if that one's making it many. So there's a reason why there has been no response. I mean, he did. He did defeat. We got must remember he, he beat Nate.

So maybe Nate wants to get it back. I don't think he doesn't, but maybe he does. I mean, that was the one time date, like Nate could actually say like, all right, he got me.

Like I lost that fight. But. And to his credit, oh, they usually did like the whole team because like it's hard. I mean, I can nick through the towel in. So like,

there's no like, there's no stocked in rules to it. Nick literally jumped the cage was like, please stop killing my brother. Yes. That was a great win for Josh Thompson. And in hindsight one of the better ones of his career, frankly. Aged very, very, very well. But yeah, probably stop.

What is the best win of Josh Thompson's career? Isn't that one? Because that it went aged tremendous. It really did, especially with how durable Nate ended up like continuing to be throughout his career. Oh, no. The, the Gilbert win. Yeah, yeah. I know he lost, but he won the first one.

even though I actually as I recall I think I thought he beat Gilbert the third time in the splitie that he lost I believe I thought Josh Thompson won that but he definitely beating Gilbert is definitely the best one of his career not the last one of his career the Nate Diaz but his only UFC win was Nate Diaz fun piece of trivia now that's how you end the show right there right when you do the trivia game maybe maybe remember that one that Maybe that comes up this week. Perhaps. And that'll do it, everybody.

Thank you so much. We're back next Thursday, right before you put from National Independence Day. Happy Canada Day as well. But if you're celebrating Independence Day, enjoy it. Enjoy some time with family and friends. I'll be heading out of town on Thursday. And I'll be back on Tuesday. So I'm very excited about that.

But back on this show on Thursday for Jed. I am Mike Keck. Appreciate all the questions. Appreciate all the banter. Stick with us at M8Fiting.com. Good eye, everybody. Love y'all. Listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.