MMA Fighting - BTL | Israel Adesanya vs. Alex Pereira, UFC 281, Frankie Edgar's Swan Song

Episode Date: November 10, 2022

This Saturday, one of the most intriguing title fights of the year takes place at Madison Square Garden for the middleweight championship between Israel Adesanya and Alex Pereira at #UFC281. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will break down the third combat sports meeting between the two fighters, discuss what the most burning questions are in the matchup, and what would be the best outcome for the #UFC from a business perspective. Additionally, they'll talk the strawweight title fight between Carla Esparza and Zhang Weili, and if Esparza is being supremely overlooked, the lightweight featured bout between Dustin Poirier and Michael Chandler, which fighters need wins the most outside of the top-three fights, Frankie Edgar's final fight against Chris Gutierrez on Saturday, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Sherdog's Ben Duffy. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Ben Duffy: @benjaminduffy Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from the Audible Original, the downloaded two. Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudulian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever. Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprise his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the Audible original Blockbuster. The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking,

What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible. Support for this show comes from the Audible original, The Downloaded 2, Ghosts in the Machine. The Earth only has a few days left. Rosco Cudullian and the rest of the Phoenix colony have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer, but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever.

Listen to Oscar winner Brendan Fraser reprised his role as Rosco Cudulian in this follow-up to the audible original blockbuster, the downloaded. It's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, what are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The downloaded two, Ghosts in the Machine, available now only from Audible. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From M.MA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links.

And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcomes you. to a special edition of Between the Links and man oh man we got a big weekend ahead of us UFC 281 MSG two title fights a fun main card just a loaded card altogether and this entire show will be based upon Saturday's card no disrespect to UFC Vegas 64 and Amanda Lamosha's performance I feel like she's gotten her flowers from us for sure but this event is just too big the storylines are everywhere. So this is a full-on UFC 281 episode of BTL. So let's get into this and introduce the participants in another exhibition matchup because Jed is not fully back.

And we apologize for the late start. It's not my fault. Jed is still retired. He's still doing the spring training thing. He's from No Betz Bard. Dan, they were good and much more. And the man whose fault it actually was that we started late. M.M.A Fighting Zone, Jen Michoud. Hello, sir. Yeah, this one was entirely on me. I don't know why. I wasn't trying to be late. But, you know, when you say it's an exhibition, my laptop heard me and was like, yeah, we're not going to give our full effort here. So it took a little while to get that settled up.

We got it. Happy to be here. Excited to talk about this card. There we go. We have a rematch this week. One of the more underrated shows we've had since it's inception on M.AFighting.com. We're going back to the well. People wanted this matchup the first time. And they wanted Chapter 2. And here we are from Sherdog, Ben Duffy. Back on the program. What's up, man?

Hey, I'm doing it real well. I like Jed's over there. Like, I don't feel tardy. Like, I'm just happy to be back for round two. There we go. I mean, to be fair, Jed was on time. Just if you could hear the actual audio of Jed's microphone before he rebooted his laptop, we laughed a lot.

I saw you guys laughing. And I couldn't tell if you were laughing at me. swearing at my computer or not. Because I was livid. We couldn't hear you at your computer. It sounded like a gang fight between a bunch of vibrators and Dennis drills. It was mad annoying. Gotta go with Dennis drills in that battle.

Gotta go with Dennis drills in that battle. I mean, that's a, that's a perfect description. We feel like we couldn't have that sound for an hour. So let's get into this. Let's start at the top of the bill. Israel Adisania versus Alex Pereira headlining Saturday's

card. The UFC's promotion. machine, the matchmakers. Look, they don't get it right all the time, but boy, do they get this one right. We don't need to go over the history between these two guys because anyone watching the show is well aware of it, but the intrigue behind it with the styles, the history between these guys. I mean, this is just such a fascinating matchup. But Ben, in terms of fascinating, perhaps biggest middleweight title fights of all time in the UFC, is this one right up there with everything?

everything attached to it? It's definitely one of the more fascinating ones. On one level, this is one of the weirdest, least deserved title shots in recent MMA history or recent UFC history. But on the other hand, all the history, the fact that Israel, Adasanya himself seems to be taking this pretty personally and in more of a sense than just playing up a fight that he really wants to bust this guy up. The question with Adasanya these days is to be coming,

how motivated is he going to be? Are we going to get an exciting fight or is he just going to wait for it to come to him? And if we get a boring fight, we get it. And he's just satisfied to do what he needs to do to keep the belt. I think we get fire here. Jed, what say you? When you look at, I mean, the middleweight division, we talk about the middleweighty middleweights. And there have been some big middleweight title flights.

But in terms of build and intrigue, like it took some time to get here, not a ton of time. but as soon as Alex Pereira got signed to the UFC and made his debut at MSG, we knew that this is the direction they were heading and they're going to try to get there as quickly as possible. But with everything involved here, where would you rank this one? Is this right up there in terms of most interesting

and question-filled middleweight title fights in UFC history? Interesting, maybe. Because this is certainly interesting. This is definitely not. I don't think this is really even on the top echelon of best middleweight title fights or frankly at the end of this it's not going to be as lucrative as some other ones

certainly you go back to Andy Silver versus old Chal P that's probably doing the thing for you from a monetary standpoint but it's really weird man I don't know how to feel about this one I haven't been this unsure about a fight in a really long time

because you know me Mike I'm going to be really confident one way or another And I might be dead ass wrong, but I'm still going to feel pretty good about whatever way I'm leaning usually. And this one, I've flip-flopped a hundred times this week already. And we've still got several days to go before the event. I don't know how to. This is so many questions. Because Alex Beheada comes into this entirely undeservedly, we don't know anything about him, basically, beyond the fact that he hits really hard.

and he's beaten Izzy twice in kickboxing, which is a similar, but very different sport. And so it is just, I don't know where to turn to. Like everything feels like a wild stab at what could happen here. And that makes it fascinating.

Certainly more fascinating than what we've seen out of Izzy recently because in none of his recent fights, we don't even need to get into the performance part right now of those, but I felt unbelievably confident in Israel-Dissnia's ability to win all of his recent fights. The only contentious fight he's had in the last three years was moving up to light heavyweight. And I still felt good about him there, but that just comes with questions. This comes with a whole host of questions for him, for Paheta. I don't know which way to turn, so it is endlessly fascinating in that regard.

So you mentioned the big word because one thing that was constant in what you just said, Jed, and during No Bet Spard, what it came to this fight was, we have questions. You said it, G.C. said it. That's what everybody's saying. And lots of them, when it comes to this fight in particular, because we have the kickboxing samples. And like you said, kickboxing is not exactly MMA. The MMA sample size for Adasana is obviously much larger than Alex Pereira's right now. but of all these questions that you have, what's the biggest question that you do have? What's the intriguing thing, Jed,

that you will be paying attention to outside of just winners and losers on Saturday? That's a really good question because I don't honestly know what is the most. I guess I think the answer has to be what is Israel Disney's approach to this fight? And as a corollary to that, how do the previous losses affect him

if they do so at all, right? Like, you can make a case, Casey won that first fight. I think that fight is really, really close. I would personally have given it to Adasanya, but, you know, it's neither here nor there. But he definitively got knocked out really, really badly. And one of the things we've seen from Izzy in his career, and Izzy fans are going to hate me for saying this, but it's the dead-ass truth and you just got to come with it. The man, fear is probably not the right word, but the man does not like when somebody can hit him back hard. Like that is not something he is trying to play around. with. The Yoel Romero fight sucking was a largely a result of him not wanting to come near Yoel because Yoel landed one right hand. He was like, I want to do this anymore.

You can make a very strong case that the Jan Blockerich loss. One of the key factors to it was strictly that Yan had power that Izzy had to respect. And when he respects you, he over-respects you. Whereas you look at the Robert Whitaker fights, you know,

he's not giving Robert Whitaker a ton of respect and striking exchanges. and he can style on people. If that knockout loss is hanging over his head, subconsciously whatever, he's going to give Pahedda too much respect, and that creates a lot of opportunities for the challenger here. I think that's the big one, is just how that looks because if he's over-respecting Paheda, that's bad.

I think he needs to not respect Pahedda at all and just kind of come at him, but I don't know what he's going to do here. I don't know how he is going to approach and fight this fight, because we saw differences from their first fight to their second fight in kickboxing. I don't know if the MMA is going to open up a whole new world of possibilities. He can use the clinch a lot more where Behera is not really that great. Maybe that's something Izzy wants to go to. Izzy's sort of been winking about maybe taking a shot or two, you know,

getting that grappling on display. I have no idea how Izzy is going to approach this fight, and that probably will determine how this fight goes. and so it is the, I think it's the biggest question for me. Ben, what do you think? What's the biggest question for you? Well, unlike Jed, I have a pretty strong handle on how I think this fight goes. I do think Adasani is going to outclass Perida here.

Like him, because, of course, Adasanya told all of us in the media space to do our fucking jobs last week and watch both of their kickboxing matches. I did so. You know, man tells me to do my fucking job. I'm going to do my fucking job. I watch the fights. I agree with Jed that I thought Adasanya won the first fight. I am not an expert score of kickboxing,

but watching it as someone who watches from an MMA perspective, I thought Adasania won that fight. I also thought he won the second fight right up until the point that he walked into one of the best left hooks in all of combat sports. Having said that, the people that have landed effectively on Adasania in MMA, without the threat of the takedown is really, really low. I think Adasania is going to be really hard for Perida to hit here. And kind of as Jed alluded to,

I think the real question is whether we get an Adasania Romero or Adasanya cannoneer type performance, where he's more concerned with not getting hit while still winning the rounds, or we get the Adasanya-Casta type performance, where he has an opponent who's coming at him, and is slipping, getting out the side, hitting him from bad angles, and just really embarrasses the guy.

Part of it is going to be down to his motivation, and that includes his motivation, not to get knocked out, obviously. But again, he's got that feel of just a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. I'm interested to see how aggressive Adasagna is, and I'm leaning towards he's going to be aggressive, he's going to punish Pereira,

and this thing's going to be over like before the final horn. So, I mean, look, this fight has been broken down in so many different ways. So I want to take a different avenue here, Ben, and I'll start with you, because in terms of business, and I don't know how long term it would be, but you would think Pereira winning would be the best case scenario for the UFC, especially if it's a competitive and fun fight because you could do the rematch and build on the story and it would be massive. and Pereira winning again, if they do rematch,

creates opportunities for fresh matchups with the Pereira title reign, opens the door for the Whitakers and others to get back to a title fight sooner rather than later. But if Adasania wins, and I'm not really sure, honestly, I don't know what else would be left for him at 185. So maybe he does decide, I'm just going to move up and vacate this belt. We still get those things that I just mentioned, how it opens things up. Plus, Adasania gets new motivation, changes things up, takes on these new challenges and does it right.

Doesn't just rush up there and take a fight. He takes some time and bulks up and goes to 205. So long term for the UFC here, Ben, what is the best case scenario for the UFC from a business perspective when it comes to this fight? An Adasanya win or a Pereira win? Well, I think you're actually elucidating what the problem is. There is no long term.

The question about Adasania, constantly for the last almost three years now is what the hell do we do with this guy next? It's the reason that we had the Blohovic fight in the first place because he was already getting to the point where he's doing his second lap around an aging group of contenders.

So the UFC can't even afford to have any long-term plans about Adasania. They need to know what the hell to do with this guy three months from now. And if he loses on Saturday, they know exactly what they're doing within three months from now. So yes, it is better from a business standpoint. the rematch would be enormously sellable

and the UFC wouldn't have to ask itself, well, is out of sign you're just going to get bored with this and do something maybe ill-advised like moving up to 205 permanently or are we just bringing along, like are we bringing Lon Hamzat Shamaa or something and trying to talk him into taking a title shot at 185? There's no clear next step unless Pereira beat him.

Jed, what do you think? Oh, I think that Izzy winning is by far the better outcome for the UFC here because long-reaning, the UFC is really bad at making stars. They're just really really bad at it. They can monetize people who can make themselves stars, but the only real avenue they have to make people stars is hoping they beat Connor McGregor

and or they win enough fights in a row that people can stand up and take notice. As we think of Anderson Silva as a star. For most of his title reign, he wasn't. Nobody really cared that much. He just hung around for six years, and you do that year after year.

You're the same guy, the top of the marquee. You get over. Izzy's already over. And so him losing maybe doesn't cost him his stardom, certainly, but it still is a loss. And he's not the kind of star that's going to get Pahedda over. He would still need to win some fights. Also, the fact that if Pahedda,

head up becomes champion, this is super projective, right? But it seems like there are a lot of dudes who might be able to give him real, real problems, given how limited his MMA career end abilities kind of are based on what we know at this point. So, is he winning is by far the better short and long term for the UFC? I mean, maybe you can make an argument that the best outcome is a draw after a fight of the year contender, because then they can just run it back. And that does assuage some of the things. but I've been saying this on this program for over a year, man.

Is he's done? Is he's done here because he doesn't have anything else to do? Look at the UFC's rankings. He beats Beheada. He's beaten every but one through six of the UFC's middleweight rankings. Several of them twice. That's why he is and should be the number one pound for pound fighter in the world, by the way, but different argument to break down later.

He's done everything in the division. He has the choice at that point to say, I want to hang out, I want to pursue Anderson Silva's record in this division, I want to become the middleweight goat. Or, as he's alluded to too many times, he wants to go up to 205, but he wants to do it right. He wants to put on the weight. He doesn't want to be undersized in the division. And there's no reason this man can't do that. If he wins, there is no clear next contender.

The only outcome the UFC could do is they could try and shoehorn Hamzaa Chamaev into a real shot to the title. just because that's at least something sellable, but he wins. He just goes up. He takes a little time off. He's very active so he can take a little first half of this year, upcoming year, 23 off, bulk up a little bit, go to 205. Because remember, he lost to Jan Bogovic. He did not get blown out by Jan Blockovich.

This dude is one of, as it sits right now without adding weight on or being developed for that weight class, he's one of the five best light heavy weights in the world if you wanted to go up there right now. So let him put, and we can do a Yuri versus Adasania in the back half of 20203. That's gas, baby. That's a big fight.

Everything's lining up there. It's much better if Izzy wins because you still do get the middleweight openness. Plus, you still have Izzy as a super, super, potentially a megastar if he can go up and win a second belt. All right. So, I mean, obviously there'll be a lot more to talk about when it comes to this fight,

but let us move on. The point for round number one goes to Ben Duffy. It's one to nothing. He's on the board. His microphone worked perfectly right off the bat, so there was no delay. So, yeah, that was, you need like a 10-7 to win that round. It's tough to overcome that. Dead starts with the yellow card already.

Yeah. All right. But now it's a clean slate. So. Boating for flight 246 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Oh, what? Sounds like Ojo time. Play Ojo? Great idea.

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or visit Comex Ontario.ca. With Amex Platinum, $400 in annual credits for travel and dining, means you not only satisfy your travel bug, but your taste buds too. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. Let's talk about the co-main event and the featured bout, and we'll start with the co-main event,

Carla Spars v. Zhang Wei-Lee. And Jed, I'm very excited to talk to you about both of these fights, especially this one, because as those who listen to, no-bet Spar is aware of, you are all in on Zhang Wei-Lee. You feel this is one way traffic.

You're putting unit after unit after unit. You're emptying the bank roll on Zhang Wei Lee. You feel like she will go in there and win the title back with relative ease on Saturday. So for those who missed it, why? Why are we going all in? Why are you so confident? Because I have eyeballs in my head and I've watched both these women fight. Like, I don't, this feels a little hot takeier, like, as we've gotten by.

And I don't understand why. because I distinctly remember the narrative after Asparza won the belt from Nama Yunus in the worst fight I've ever seen in my life. Everybody, we got on. We're just like, yeah, so like, good for Carla, not taking anything away from her. Absolutely, she won the fight, good for her. She is going to be a Hall of Famer that basically locked it up. But still, like, there are five women in this white class who would hand her ass. And then we went and watched Wiley Zhang obliterate Yawani on J.

who, so were clear, would still hand Carlos Sparza her ass. Like, Wiley is just, she built different, baby, and that's it. Like, we're talking about the only woman I think I've ever seen just physically overpower Jessica and Drach. So, God love Carlos Sparza. Tremendous story, great comeback to reclaim the belt, but I don't even, she is probably the better wrestler offensively. even certain that's true because you're watching wiley jean get out here and you know pick francis and ghanu up into

the air and shit like i don't i don't know if carlos spars can do that so it's i do not see a path to victory barring some very very freak occurrence for espaza she is not a knockout artist if she can score a takedown i'm not even sure she can hold position because wiley can just do the Derek Lewis, nope, I'm standing up out of this because I am a physical specimen and you cannot compete with me in this. This is going to be one-way traffic. Everybody knew it as soon as as far as won the belt. Everybody even more so knew it as soon as Wiley Schung blew the doors off Yawani and J-Chic and was clearly going to be next in line. And everybody should still know it right now. it's just there's no if i'm more confident in this fight than i have been in any fight this year

and that includes valentin of chivchenko fighting like i have no doubt in my mind what's about to happen yeah i mean as jed said there's he's usually confident but all in confident is a whole different thing ben are you all in confident here on jang we lee like i don't know if you play the ponies or not but would you be willing to risk your pony playing bankrolls on Zhang Wei Lee winning on Saturday? I'd be willing to risk the bankroll. Good thing for my kids that, you know, today you can get a real good education

that community colleges because I would put their entire college fund on this. As icky as it makes me feel on the inside to agree so wholeheartedly with Jed, I do agree here. The UFC strawweight title has been passed around among the same five women for the last eight and a half years, just this hermetically sealed pool of champions,

almost all the possible permutations of those women fighting each other have now been made, especially if Jessica Androj is out of the division for good. And of all those possible matchups, I think this is the worst one for Sparza. So it makes me feel bad to say it, because I've been on the trail for the last couple of weeks saying she is one of the most overlooked, underrated, unfairly dismissed top-level fighters, champions of the last decade in the UFC. And I say that right before I dismiss her because I am. dismissing her chances here. All the things she does well line up really, really badly with the things that

Wei Li Zhang does well. She's not going to put her down with a single strike. She's an extremely persistent takedown artist. She might get Zhang down, but I agree with Jed here that Wei Li Zhang might be the only woman in the sport with just the physical wherewithal to do the Derek Lewis, Mark Hunt. I'm just going to bench press you and stand up now. you know, get-up game.

And for as far as it, I have to get rinse and repeat takedowns that will require her to get into punching range against one of the hardest pound-for-pound hitters in the sport who is so fast and so accurate, it's just a miserable style match-up. And I don't even think it ends in a nice, pretty honorable-looking loss. I think it ends with a smelling salt loss. So we talked about this before we went live,

and I want to bring this up here because one thing that has been kind of strange about the built of this fight and it's not the betting odds it's not most picking Zhang Wei to Luen or smelling salts

decisiveness or anything like that it's just the disrespect and even bordering kind of hatred towards Carla Sparza amongst the MMA community like her getting just mercifully booed at the press conference I didn't think she'd be like

Hulk Hogan walking into MSG in 1986 but I experienced expected not full on booze. And it just seems strange that, I mean, she's not a heel, but she has looked at as the enemy for some reason. I don't really get it, Ben. Like, do you have an explanation for this? Like, what has been your reaction to this just utter, just hatred towards

Carla Spars in a lot of ways here? I honestly have no idea. It's the strangest thing to me because she has all the component parts of somebody who should be a fan favorite. She is a scrappy underdog. She is physically unassuming in comparison to most of the women that she competes with. Her fights aren't always the most exciting to watch, but that's always one of the last pieces of the puzzle.

Some of the most popular fighters in MMA history have had a pension for not that exciting fights. I don't get it at all, but part of it, she almost seems to approach it as though she's already unpopular and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. She just comes with kind of a chip on her shoulder and already feels that people dislike her and people respond by disliking her. I knew that kind of person in high school and just she's the adult version. I don't get it. I want to like her. Jed, what do you think? Like what is this all about? She's getting she's getting like Al Jamein-Steirling heat right now and you know what I mean? Like, and I don't know why. Like I don't know why.

don't know why. Like I can understand kind of a, like a mad reaction to her because she's not, she's not a big trash talker. She just goes in, does the fighting, and then she goes home and gets married and takes pictures with the title that she won. And that's what most women would probably do in that situation at the time worked out. But just her being mercifully booed at the presser was, was kind of bizarre. What have you made of just everybody turning on her? It was unexpected for sure, because I think the appropriate. answer is to just be pretty whatever to her, right? And I don't even, like, maybe this is disrespectful and that's fine if I'm disrespecting in this regard.

Like, she's not an interesting fighter. She's just not. She hasn't, her performances, save for the Janja Nahn one, which came out of nowhere and remains like the weirdest awesome performance of the last like four years at somebody who is just a decision machine just comes out and puts it on somebody who's pretty damn good. other than that, she's just not been interesting. And I have to assume that the hate, but she hasn't been not interesting in a negative way.

Al Jermaine Sterling, I totally get why people hate him. Like, maybe it's a little unfair, but he really, really sucks at handling things. Like, he's very just objectively bad at optics. And so, like, I get why that people get turned off by that. I don't think as far as has really done anything bad here. I think really her, major shortcoming is the UFC has never promoted her and been invested in her in any realistic way

outside of letting her win the title that first time around from the from the tough season and then she immediately lost it now she's just a person you know she's just been in the division but they have been very invested in rosamai unis and her winning the belt in the way she did over a popular champion, even if I scored it for Carla and think that that's fine, and that's on Rose for putting the worst performance in the history of modern mixed martial arts out there, like, still winning it that way from a very popular champion, that's the only explanation for why people dislike her, because otherwise, she hasn't done anything to make you hate her, except for she beat someone you liked, and people naturally dislike that.

We're going to talk about it a little bit. For in years, I hated Frankie Edgar because he robbed BJ Penn, For years, I hated that dude. And it's just how fandom goes. So it's odd and it's inexplicable. But I want to point out, it's not as inexplicable. Is this gambling line, Mike? Because I don't get it. Wiley Zhang is minus 330 favorite.

She should be a minus 1,000. Who is picking Carlos Sparza? How is this number staying this low? I do not understand. Blows my mind. I mean, I don't make, betting odds. So I don't, I don't know. But I assume you see a lot of value on her and that's why you're pushing all your chips in the middle. It's an infinite amount of value. Myr 30 is like roughly a

70 to 8, like 75 to 80% win probability. If they've fought a hundred times, Carla maybe, maybe wins two. Maybe. Given the UFC's recent track record, I'm going to assume that line means that Waley-Zong is going to walk out in the octagon fully missing a whole leg. and they've just kept it on the hush-hush. Dude, that's like legitimately the only concern I have here. Because this line isn't moving. And I'm like, maybe somebody knows that Wiley actually is not physically able to compete on Saturdays because I don't get it.

She broke her back when she put Francis and Gunnew back down. Honestly, even with the broken back, it wouldn't shock me if she won this fight. Oh, geez. All right. Well, let's move on. I don't understand the negativity towards Carla, but, you know, it is what it is. So let's go positive, Jed. Let's go positive because your favorite fighter of all time Michael Chandler is fighting

Dustin Porier. And it will be a fun fight, and it would be shocking if this fight is boring or doesn't deliver. But this fight has become a little more interesting in terms of stakes because Charles Oliver is no longer the lightweight champion, Islam Makachev is. So, I keep going back and forth. Yeah. So I'm going back and forth on like what this fight actually means because as interesting as Mokachachin being the champion is, I feel like there's a real chance that

we might see some of the familiar names, one of these two guys potentially getting back to title shots before guys like Darius or some of these young hungry lions that are just itching to move up and get these opportunities. So what do you think these guys are fighting for outside of just putting on a show at MSG because there's something on the line here that probably wouldn't have been if Charles Oliver won on October 22nd. I don't know about that second part because I think even if Oliver had won, if Chandler wins, I think he has a very good chance to get a title fight because the UFC loves this man.

And even had Oliver won, you know, Chandler almost killed Olivera before he got himself killed. So you can sell that two wins. I think that that could have very much been in play. I think with Mokchev winning, that's very much in play. It's a little less in play for Porriere, because, again, not fair, and they're not, I like the same fighter. But Porier is going to get docked points for getting absolutely throttled by Habib

and Islam. People are just transposing Islam and Habib. They're just the same guy now. So I think what they are fighting for is the winner, even if it is Chandler, still probably ends up fighting Benile Daryush next. And I came out of 280 thinking, man, Benny Daryew should just fight Chuckie olives because that's a hell of a fight. And that would be super fun.

I'm not confident that that fight's going to go. And the more I think about it, I hate that fight because, as I've mentioned on many different programs, I'm incredibly. I'm incredibly tired of the top dudes just squatting on rankings, and I want Oliver to fight back back. Just one time, then he can do the thing. But if you're losing in the top five, you need to let some new blood try and come in and get there.

So let Benil Daryush and Michael Chandler or Benile Darius and Dustin Porier fight also at the Perth card, assuming I know there have been rumblings that maybe the Volk thing doesn't happen with Islam. If we're still operating in the world where that happens, Islam fights Volk, the undercard, Benio Darius fights either the winner of this fight and with the understanding that Benny Daryush is the backup

should something happen to the main event. I think that's where we go from here. Ben, what do you think? You agree with that or you think there's more on the line here? Like, poor Benny's getting leapfrogged and it's Volk are one of these guys. Uncomfortable as it makes me feel to largely agree with Jed once again. we've just finished talking about two divisions

that have a problem at the top. Middleweight, obviously, a shortage of viable options for Israel-A-Sahia, straw weight where no woman has been able to break into that circle of five in over eight years now. Lightweight does not have that problem. And the longer the same four guys and the proxy for the departed guy,

Kabib Nurmaga Madov, continue to just occupy all the top spots, there are so many people working their way up the 155-pound division that are on four, five, eight fight winning streaks or unbeaten streaks. And they're just sort of frozen out. So I think Porreier versus Chandler might be for a title shot, but I hope it isn't. And I definitely think that Olivera should take a step back to where he is at least one more elite win away from getting back into discussion to win his title back.

I've never been a fan of immediate title rematches. I like when champs off of a bad loss have to take, you know, two steps back. I do think that Chandler might be closer than Porre. Because of the optics of the way Porre lost to Nirmagamatov, even though it's not fair to say Mokachev and Nirmagamadov are the same guy or would do the same thing. And the fact that Chandler, by the eyeball test, probably has a better chance against Mokachachev. have than Porre does. But all of that only matters if Chandler beats Poria and I don't think he's going to. All right. Let us move on. Jop, Jed. What's the face? What's the face?

I'm trying to think if I agree with that last statement about Chandler having a better chance. I think maybe, but we're talking Poria has a 0% chance and Chandler has a 0.5% chance. Like neither of them are doing shit to his Lamaqadjap, man. Here's my hot take on this fight. I think both these dudes are washed and we don't know it yet. And not like washed, washed, but they haven't been fighting good people and or when they have, they've been getting got by good people, aka Chuckie Olives. They're both old, certainly in fight mileage. They're old.

And Chandler was losing to Tony Ferguson before he punted his face to the moon. And the only wins, boy, he has in the last like four years, are Connor McGregor, who is also washed? I think this fight's going to be awesome. It's going to be super fun. I think I have both of these gentlemen ranked below several other dudes, like upcoming guys at Lightweight. And I think just because of the way Lightweight has worked and shook out and that they're fighting themselves,

all the same old guys, that same group continues to round robin it, they're not fighting the new blood. Like I think, I think Poillet might be pretty close to, like, really having his drop off. And I think Chandler is right there as well. So I don't think either of them have shit for Oxychev. And I think like Matush Kamrot would roll them up as well. Like I think Benny Dary Ush beats them both. So,

but I mean, I guess we'll find out. Well, you make a good point by bringing up Dary Huss because he has been fighting good people. Because he's happened to climb the ladder incredibly slowly and has had to beat tough dudes every single step of the way. The idea that he might not get the next title shot at lightweight makes my heart hurt.

Yeah. But maybe he becomes the Leon Edwards of 155. The best win for both of these dudes in the last like four years is Dan Hooker. And God love Dan Hooker. I don't know that that's a good win.

You know, like it's a fine win. I don't know that it's a good one. Well, speaking of Dan Hooker, he is also competing on this card on Saturday and we'll see what happens. Let us move on. The point for round two,

goes to Jed Bishu. It's one to one. I mean, when you say agree with Jed, not once but twice, usually that signifies good things. But if you hear a lot of like rumbling going on, we are in South Carolina,

there is a tropical storm going on. I don't think the power is going to go up, but it is raining pretty hard, so bear with me. But a lot happening here at 281, a lot of storylines that we talked about, stacked up with good fights, good fighters,

matchups, what if you will. So Ben, I'll start with you here. Outside of the top three fights that we've just talked about, which fighter has the most pressure on them to deliver on Saturday, which fighter needs a win the most and why? Oh, the fighter under the greatest pressure to win is probably Dominic. Reyes. Damn it.

It's Dominic Reyes. If he doesn't beat Ryan Span, he is going to complete one of the most precipitate, as falls from grace of any top fighter I can remember in the UFC. We're talking about a guy that two and a half years ago, almost three years ago,

beat John Jones the best fighter on the planet in the eyes of a majority of observers. And it's not completely fair to pile all that on him. He lost a tough decision to, again, maybe the greatest fighter of all time. He's had no breathing room since then.

He gets Yombollahovic next. He gets Yeri Pachaska after that. He has fought three of the last four champs in that division. But between that and just basically fighting once per year, the onus is on him to prove that he is still a top guy in this division. And he's been saying all the right things this week. You know, I'm Dominic Reyes versus 2.0. I'm better than never before.

All the things you'd expect a fighter to say in his position. I think we're going to know in about 90 seconds. I'm not saying the fight's going to be over in 90 seconds, but I'm going to say we're going to, he's either going to put the lie to this. or he's going to vindicate all the things he'd been saying within 90 seconds of when he and Ryan Spann go at it. Jed, yeah, I think you kind of knew where this is going. But look, there's a lot of fights here that you can make at least some sort of argument for.

I don't think you can get one more than Dominic Reyes. But you can give it a shot or maybe you want to add a different wrinkle to Dominic Reyes. Who's got the most pressure? Dominic Reyes is objectively the correct answer. because if he loses, it will be very sad. It will also be kind of funny just because, like, MMA, what a wild-ass sport. Not that long ago, this dude beat the best fighter on the planet

and got absolutely robbed by the judges. And then it just all, everything fell apart for him. What should have been the greatest night of his life actually became the turning point for a really terrible story in this sport. So he for sure has the most pressure. Like it's, I don't think this is even close. If I'm going to pick a second,

uh, and I feel a little weird about this one, particularly because of the perception going on in this fight, I'm going to go a little out of left field and say, meetball Molly McCann. Because she is on the best win streak of her UFC career right now, three fights in a row, two back-to-back, spinning back-elbo chaos.

If she does a third, one that will be also incredible. She's facing Aaron Blanchfield, who is going to win this fight. She's going to beat her in Brantzfield. She's very, very good at fighting. She's probably the best prospect in women's MMA. She is going to fight for a title one day. And Molly is better than I gave her credit for initially, I think.

But she just ain't that. She is not him, as the kids say these days. If she loses this one, that probably knocks her out of really ever being in that conversation. She will become a beloved. She is a beloved fighter, right? And, but her title aspirations probably have to go because Blanchefield's like 23 or whatever. Like, things aren't getting better for Molly in that regard. And she stands on the precipice of being an, like a real legitimate super, superstar here. Because if she can pull this out and beat Blanchfield, I frankly don't really give a, give a hoot about what else is going on in this division and that people would deserve it more.

You take Molly McCann in a four-fight win streak who just be, I don't even know where the UFC has Blanchefield ranked, I assume she's in their top 10. And you just go ahead and slap that woman into a title shot. Like, just there's no flyweight is pretty open. I know that you want to do the Alexa Grasso, Manon Furo. I don't care. Nobody's, and that's on them. I'll be very clear.

That has been off your O and Alexa Gross's fault because they aren't calling for it. They're trying to fight each other. They're trying to develop. They aren't making people interested. But if Molly McCann back elbows Aaron Blanchfield hits the mic and is like, well, nobody else in this division wants a damn title shot, I sure is hell do. Let's do it in London. We're going back in the spring or whatever. Do it.

Book that shit. That can be the co-main event for Leon Edwards versus Kamau Usman 3 and Molly McCann can have a title fight right now. if she comes out and does and pulls off on a huge upset. So I think she is the second best choice for this here. But that's still pales in comparison as Dominic Reyes.

Who are you? And what have you done with Jed Mishu? Like I've not known you to engage in such like fanciful, like positive like pie in the sky like, uh, injecture. This is me shitting on every other freaking flyweight who won't

stand up and take a title fight. Molly McCann, for her many limitations as a fighter, she is not afraid to get on the mic and say some shit and believe in herself. And that is, like, she's going to lose, which is why this is all moot. But if she comes to spinning back elbows

Aaron Blanchfield, if she comes in spinning back elbows there in Blanchfield, she will ask for a title fight and you should damn sure give it to her. She'll never get one another way. I think she is going to get smoked and it is just showing the UFC

the lesson of why would you do anything with this woman other than put her in winnable fights in England? Why would you put her in a brutal mismatch in New York against someone who's from the tri-state area? Like it just, it squanders everything that's more organic to be happened. They're trying to get Blanchefield over. They're trying to get Blanchefield over is what they're trying to pull off here

because they believe that Blanchefield is the future of this division and they're probably correct in that regard, but. Well, they're right. the future of the division, but she's going to squash McCann to like some polite golf clapping and the UFC will have nothing. I mean, yeah. I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

Blanchefield's from the area, so she's probably going to have some peeps out there. A lot of the Frankie Edgar marks will probably be sharing for her as well. So there will be more of the Cannes fans there from England than there will be Aaron Blanchfield fans. That is probably true for being real. maybe I mean it's possible but listen

that's why I love the matchmaking because it's a win-win for the UFC either Blancheville gets over or McCann gets thrust into a title fight and you I mean

she over exceeds and becomes a player and becomes a very sellable fight for that London card that that's massive so if I could pick one outcome

if I just got to you know play God for a day and I could pick one outcome, it would be a spinning back elbow K-O from Ali McGahn because this would be the best gimmick in the sport if she never finishes anybody and then just suddenly learns the back elbow

and it's just a mortal combat move. She just gets a patented finisher like a professional wrestler has. Yeah, it's just the same move. It's awesome. So is that the low-key bangor Jed with the stakes here? Oh, God, no. Or is there something else? God, no. That's not a banger? Aaron Blanchfield's going to tackle to the floor and just hustle

are all up and down the mat. It's not a banger at all. It's weird to pick a Loki banger because as good as any fight on this guard can be, very clearly, Pori-Channler's going to be insane. So, like, you can't pick a Loki banger that even has a realistic shot

to win fight of the night because that's spoken for. But for the sake of doing it, let's take a look here. No, no, no, no. kind of a lot of a lot of thin as I'm looking over this card it's probably too high up

oh Utman I Isatar versus Maffervola maybe maybe that's where I want to be with this yeah that feels good enough um Ottoman hasn't fought in two years

I'm really interested to see what he looks like he should really lean into the what's in the bag gimmick because it's incredibly funny to me hits really hard. Favola, very chinny, but good grappler. Otman didn't show the best wrestling

in his defensive wrestling in his regional, you know, showcases. So I think this fight can be a little all over the place, especially when you factor in what is the probable ring rust

for Otman here. So that fight's probably going to have moments of fun before Otman ultimately starches for Volus, so I think we're going to go with that. Ben, which yours, Loki Bear. Oh, I don't know if it'll be fight of the night, but something that could certainly yield a performance of the night

would be the curtain jerker, Carlos Oldberg versus Nick Negamarianu. Stardom is there waiting for Carlos Oldberg, if he can just keep winning fights. Like, he's only in the opening fight, I think, because they wanted to space out the four city kickboxing fighters for the sake of Eugene Behrman. But Oldberg, you look at the guy, he looks like the villain from a direct-to-video kickboxing movie,

just like this devilishly handsome dude. he's got the one eyebrow like the rock, you know, as Sean Baby once put it, genetically built in the lab to steal your girlfriend and a breathtaking finisher as a kickboxer. Stardom is going to be there if they keep putting opponents in front of him that will oblige him with the kind of fight he wants.

Negamariano is going to do that. Well, at the same time, having the kind of power to put him down like Kennedy and Detiqui did, I think that should be a fantastic fight for as long as it lasts. And again, it might be the last time we see Carlos Oldberg

in the first fight on the pre-lai. lens. Well, we have one more fight we haven't talked about and we will do that in round number four. So the points for round three goes to, it goes to Ben, but I got to say Jedbath is real close, real close. So it's two to one. Unwrap holiday magic at Holt Renfrew with gifts that say I know you from festive and cozy fashion to Lux Beauty and Fragrant Suts. Our special selection has something for every style and price point. Visit our Holt's holiday shop and store or online at Holtrenfrew.com.

This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here. Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ. Built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence. While Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.

So let's talk about another fight on this main card, a very important one. The final one for Frankie the answer, Edgar. What a career this guy has had. So he's 30th UFC appearance coming up. Former lightweight champion. I know Jed used to hate him because it feels like he stole the belts off BJ Penn. Fun fact. He did.

That's just objectively correct. Hey, listen, I love Frankie Edger for that because the only MMA bet, that I have ever made was picking Frankie Edgar in that fight. And robbery or not, I cashed a ticket. So I was pretty happy and cash some good value on that as well. But he's fighting Chris Gutierrez, final fight. He wanted at MSG. And here we go.

So Jed, again, for those who may not have heard, tell us why you love this matchup in this matchmaking so much. I hate this fucking fight. I hate this fight so fucking much. And I don't even like Frankie Edgar. And that's been bothering me more than this fight. itself has because I shouldn't care about this because I don't even like Frank Edgar I don't dislike him anymore I hated him for a long time because he robbed

BJ everybody forgets that's like one of the worst robberies in the history of the sport because the rematch was super not close he like very decisively won it but he super didn't win their first fight and I carried that grudge with me for a long time and it was a joy to watch Jose Aldo take this man to school and then I finally got over it because Frankie hung around enough and you have to respect his career if nothing else You got to respect the man's career. And he also got karma when Vincent Henderson twice robbed him. So it all settles out in the end.

But I'm still not a Frankie fan. Like, Frankie's just a dude who I respect immensely for being one of the 15 greatest fighters of all time. Like, he's in the short list, you know, just for his accomplishments. Particularly when you consider his accomplishments, despite being a natural 35 or, right? That's incredibly impressive. The UFC has a real problem. with how to handle their veteran stars. And I know that Frankie wanted to fight on this card and you should respect that.

Chris Gutierrez is probably going to beat him. And this is for nothing because no disrespect to Chris Gutierrez. He ain't it. He's not a future star. He's not the next guy. He's a good dude who can probably be a top 15-ish kind of dude in this division. But super deep division, difficult to stay there. and if you're going to send your legendary fighter future Hall of Famer out on his back,

do it with a sure, do it with a surefire star for as much as I gave the the Hamzot versus Nate Diaz fight trash. And I did for all the reasons it deserved it. The core principle of that is at least solid matchmaking in the fact that it is this guy is a certified star. we're trying to get him a bump. Chris Gutierrez is just a dude, and he's going to go out and he's probably, like Frankie may win the first round, and then Chris's going to kick him in the legs a bunch,

and he's going to knock him out because Frankie's old. And then instead of having a great homegoing in Madison Square Garden, Frankie is going to be stretched out in Madison Square Garden for his final fight in a fight that does not matter to his legacy in any regard, because when you go back and look at it, you're just going to be like, yeah, let's forget about that one, because that fight means nothing to anybody. And it's going to be the best win of Chris Gutierrez's career,

but then it's not going to amount to anything. This is, who did they do this with Donald Seroni against? Alex Marono or whatever? Yeah, who gives a shit about that fight? Like, that is a useless way to get brain damage dealt to cowboy. And we're just doing this here and we're doing it at MSG. The op, they should have done Dominic Cruz. and I know that you can't because Cruz lost a Cheeto.

Well, that's why you don't do the Cheeto fight in the first place, you ass bags, because have foresight. There are any number of other outcomes. And honestly, a very reasonable outcome is just like let me fight Frankie. Just some dude that Frankie is going to roll up. No questions asked, considerable favorite, going to dunk on him at MSG. Send him out on a dub. Do right by the people who've done right by you because whatever you're thinking. thoughts on Frankie Edgar, you cannot say this man did not give everything to this organization

and help create the organization it is today. And he's going to go out in the shittiest way possible. I hate this fight. I've hated this fight from day one. I'm going to hate this fight forever. Ben, do you love this fight as much as Jed does? Oh, I love it about as much as Jed does. I would say, I will say I, I'm talking about this fight in a different way than I would if Edgar were not one of the few MMA veteran living legend types that I actually believe when he says this is his last fight.

I do believe him. I think he's gone after this. And you know what? I forgive him for beating BJ Penn. Why forgive him for getting the decision in that first fight? Because the universe has a way of smoothing things out.

He got his karma when he had to fight Benson and it was more or less the same thing where he lost a real iffy decision the first time and a more clear one the second time. You know, the balance has been restored to the force. Lost both of them. This fight, I do think the UFC just kind of got stuck

with the worst of all possible worlds here. Because you either give one of your heroes a winnable, like, super winnable. Like, get Jed Mishu in there against him. I mean, I don't know where that name came from, but like I like that idea. Somebody that Frankie would just completely style on. or really do just feed him to one of your young lions.

I mean, Sean O'Malley just fought, and he's probably, you know, like right in the title picture now, but you just give him to like just some scorching up and come or like give him like Adrian Yanez or somebody and let him get stretchered. But here, I do think this is a fight that it's not going to go well for Edgar and he's either going to lose by an ugly TKO or he's just going to lose a bad decision where he's,

smaller and slower than his opponent and no longer has the legendary cardio where, you know, he's the guy that's getting, getting rolled downhill on in the last round. And it'll just be a depressing scene for all involved. I'm not looking forward to it. I mean, if you hate Frankie Edgar, you're just like somebody that doesn't like dogs. There's something wrong with you, and I don't trust you. Hey, Kay. Anyways.

So before we wrap this up, Ben, as far as the story career goes. So let's just say 30, 40 years from now, you're sitting on your rocking chair and your grandkid comes up to you and he sits in your lap. He says, grandpa, tell me about this guy, Frankie Edgar. What are you going to tell him or her? Frankie Edgar is the, he is the counter to the idea that intangibles don't matter. in mixed martial arts. Generally speaking, when people talk about heart and will to win and an indomitable spirit, I, in more than at least, I roll my eyes a little bit because I say, you know,

the better athlete and the better fighter wins 90% of the time. And Frankie Edgar is, he's the counter to all those arguments. We're talking about a guy that wrestled at 103 pounds at Clarion University that won a title at 145, fought for a title at 1.4. and was surprisingly relevant in the twilight of his career at 135 pounds, fighting guys that were bigger than the ones he was fighting at 155 a decade and a half before. Obviously, the two pen fights are the ones that will ensure he makes it into the UFC Hall of Fame for what that's worth. But the ones that made his legend were his fights with Grey Manard,

where he lost a fight, drew a fight, and then won a fight, and in two of those fights, he took a 10-7 round. just and you literally saw a smaller, less, like, weaker man will himself to victory over one of the most physically imposing fighters in the sport at the time. I'll never forget those. They were impressionable years for me, even still as a fan that had been into the sport for a while, and they cemented for me his greatness, his legend. Yeah, Frankie Edgar, all-time greats. and the living definition of heart in mixed martial arts.

Grandpa Jed, what do you think? We're going to tell the young whippersnapper grandchild, tell me about Frankie Edgar, you know, people doubt me all the time and people say, hey, go watch the UFC, go back on FightPass or ESPN Plus, and watch old Frankie Edgar fights to boost your morale, and then he wants to learn more. And who better to learn about Frankie Edgar from than Grandpa Jed?

What are you going to say? he was one of the 15 or 20 best fighters of all time uh and he is his career is not going to be remembered as such and that's a shame to some extent uh honestly he and bj are going to have like a real similar post prime or post career where maybe not in their personal lives um you know we'll make that distinction clear but

if you look at their records you know like randy kattor you look at frankie's record and it's not that good he's 24 and 10 with the one draw in there as well. That's a fine record, but that is not some of the jumps off the page. But those numbers lack the context of what we're talking about here. I mean, he has wins in three,

top 10 wins in three different weight classes. There are a handful of fighters who can say that. Like, I am trying to think off the top of my head who is in that group. It's like Anderson Silva and, I'm drawing a blank, honestly, on anybody behind Anderson Silva having that kind of wins over that many career weight classes. Like, that is just an unbelievable achievement. And the fact that he was lightweight champion, I mentioned earlier, despite being a natural bannum weight, it's incredibly impressive.

This is a dude who's the numbers don't tell the tale. I'm not, I don't want to retread what Ben said about the hard stuff because I also don't know that I'm like, all the way there with him because the bitter BJ Penn fan of me can't quite still allow for it. But Stude Gay had delivered incredible moments and delivered in big spots when it counted. And that is kind of the measure of a champion, how we view it. He showed that, did it for a really long time in a bunch of way classes. But for Josealdo, who in my estimation is absolute worst, the third greatest fighter of all time, he would be a two-division champion.

Frank Air twice fought for the featherweight strap. You know, like he realistically should have been a two-division champion at some point. And had he made the cut to Bannon Wade earlier, would have really had a great chance to beat, like, Dominic Cruz, if they had ever finally settled up in the cage. So he is an all-time great. And the people who know and were here at the time, they will all tell you,

Yeah, that dude, that dude is one of the best fighters who's ever fought. And that's really all it is. Well said. Well said. Happy trails, Frankie. And we can all watch Frankie Edgar's final fight together on Saturday. UFC 281 live watch party. Myself, G.C.

will be in the studio in New York. And I believe Jed Mishu is going to join us for his favorite fighter, Michael Chandler's fight with Dustin Porier. And we get to watch him sweat up. out and all in bet. I'm not sweating out. It's going to be easy. I don't condone this in any way, but like this is a bet where if I had to put up like a pinky finger on it, I wouldn't be that uncomfortable with it.

Like, yeah, that's fine. All right. So a lot on the line here. Maybe a pinky finger comes up, but that's why you need to watch the watch party on Saturday because you never know it's going to happen. The point for round four goes to nine finger meshews. He gets it done. It's two to two.

And that means we head to the final question, the knockout round. One question. Both guys will get the same question. They'll each have one minute to answer. And then when it is done, we will turn it over to you, the people. All of you watching the program right now, you can vote on who you think wins the matchup between Jedmishu and Ben Duffy. And then E. Casey lied in Mr. 3024.

Get him on that rising card, Risen officials. And he will announce the winner. So Jed, you've got back-to-back wins. I mean, they're spring training wins, but they're wins nonetheless. So you got the prerogative. Do you want to continue the exhibition streak and go first? Or do you want to pass this over to back? Yeah, sure.

I don't even know what you're going to ask. I was trying to think what you could be asking. But sure, let's do it. I'll go first. So I didn't know what I was going to ask. But I looked at the PR schedule for the week. And I was like, ooh, I think I'm going to go with this. Because we haven't really touched on it.

We touched on it for like microseconds when Brian, Campbell came back on to take on Alexander K. Lee. So tomorrow, Jed, in New York, Dana White, before the ceremonial weigh-ins for UFC 281, he's going to host a press conference for his PowerSlapp Fight League that is launching that has been met with a lot of different reactions. So, Jed, you can't be in New York. So let's just say we can zoom you right in there. you get the first question, you're the John Morgan of the presser, and you get a 60 second time limit. What are you asking them?

What are you telling them? One minute on the clock. Go. Well, this is a layup at least. If I could only ask one question and stay in white hosting, and whoever's watching this and happens to be at this, I hope you take this question. Hey, hey, Dana, right here, right here.

Yeah, I know John's not here. Pick me. I don't wear a blue shirt, but it's okay, pick me. Dana, I have one very important question for you. Did anybody at all in the PR department in any aspect of this look at the fact that you've named this Dana's white power slap league? Because it feels like you shouldn't have white power as two words together in this thing. And I'm just curious on why you felt the need to do that. That's the obvious question.

then if you're being a real journalist after that, the follow-up is also, this is objectively horrible and why are we promoting something that is certainly bad for traumatic brain injuries? Your response. All right. This is going to be a great press conference

if that's the first question. So, Jed, you get to hand the mic over to Ben. And, like, John Morgan wants the mic, but you're just going to run it over to Ben. So, Ben, you get the mic. You get the second question. You get one minute to ask it and say whatever you want to say. Go ahead.

Go. I've got a blue shirt on. I'll take the next question. I'm mostly interested in just all the possibilities that this exciting new idea presents. I mean, I've never heard of a slap fighting league before. You know, like I want to know what the tail of tape looks like. If there's going to be like hand size, like glove size, like are they going to compete by hand size rather than actual weight? You know, I remember, you know, like the whole thing about Shane Carwin having the biggest hands in the UFC.

Do we get a comeback? I think he's only about 54 years old. Power is the last thing to go. I want to see a Shane Carwin power slap on somebody. Could we, I mean, could we see like intergender intramural slap league? Because I've seen in live situations, like plenty of women slapping men, I could see that in a competitive context. And beyond that, I would just echo that, yeah, this is the worst idea I, I've ever heard of, where did you get it,

and how did it not go immediately into the trash can under your desk? And that's all for me. So I think we'll, you know, we'll probably have the press conference at MnAFighting.com. So maybe you'll get those questions. Maybe you won't. So vote now. Tabulate the votes.

Get excited for Dana White Power, Power, Slap, Fight League, or whatever, whatever it is. And programming note, tomorrow, 9 a.m. Eastern, ladies and gentlemen, official weigh-ins, UFC 281, AK has the day off because he needs to rest, needs to get his voice all ready, because he'll be hosting, of course. Christmas come early for AK Lee.

9 a.m. to 11 a.m. We'll see if there's any drama on the scales. Shortly after that, we'll have a heck of a morning on the Twitter spaces. So join us for that. We'll have some fun. And then later on in the day, we'll have a preview show. I think it's going to be after-seremonials,

but we'll have all your coverage in the slap fight presser. There might be another presser as well. I don't really know. And then we'll have Ceremony Awayans. We'll have a preview show. Saturday's going to be fun. Lots of stuff happening on Saturday. It's going to bum me out when people care more about slap fight league than like Bellator.

Just tough scene. Oh, man. Actually, that won't bum me out. I'll mostly think it's really funny. and give me more things to make fun of Bellator for. Oh, wow. And then after that, yes, like we talked about, we'll have a People's Pre-Fight show.

I believe we're going to do it at 515 Eastern, roster TBD, and then the watch party will be at 9.45 p.m. Eastern. That's when it will kick off on the NBA Fighting YouTube channel. We can watch the fights together. We could watch shed sweat. Connor sweat a lot during UFC 280, because he had a lot of units on the line. And we even did a chat bet where you guys picked a bet for Connor,

to cashed Benny Daryush by decision. Thanks to the fine folks of the M.A. Fighting YouTube chat. And then A.K. and I'll be back on Sunday. On to the next. And, of course, you have your post-fight coverage and all that. So Casey, are you there? Do we need more time?

No, we do not need more time. Casey has sleeves. I'm disappointed. Can you see my Shiner? Isn't it the other eye? Yeah. Yeah, that one that hurts. Yeah.

Okay. I can see it on the eye you're not pointing to. All right. So Casey, who won? Ooh. Your winner today with 66% of the votes is Damn. It's a good showing.

And still undefeated, but only because it's an exhibition match. But your winner is Jed Mishu. Jedd! Exhibition, Jed! I really pivoted me. Wow. It's all made up. Points don't matter.

It's not a real win. We're just out here having fun, you know? Just pick up. Playing pickup ball. The best possible outcome for the BTL, because now, you know, there's the possibility of a trilogy fight, you know, the next time heck needs fallback. Yeah, I mean, it's like, you know, I'm...

In Jed's case, like a trilogy grappling match. So, I mean, the stars are there. It's just not what you pay for, you know? But it's still fun. A trilogy, verbal slap fight. There's a little verbal slap fight. So, Jed, I mean... We're still going to give you the prize, even though it's an exhibition.

So 30 seconds, do you want to recap Fight Circus? I don't know. What do you want to talk about? Fight Circus was great, even with their 90-minute delay of happening, which is a real tough hang at the time. Let's be honest. Still remains the most electric promotion in mixed martial arts and probably one that's, like, morally objectionable. But there you are. The only thing else I'll say is because this happened like right before.

I just saw the trailer for John Wickford, and I don't know if I've ever been more excited to see a movie. Like, I could not be more pumped for that film, so I can't wait for March 2023. Ben, any final words before we let you go, sir? I'm definitely more excited for John Wick for than I have ever been for a movie with four in its title. I mean, just series don't stay good for that long. I agree that I started for. I don't remember Toy Story Four. But speaking of four, Fight Circus 4 was amazing.

I don't know if John Nutt is the best promoter in the business, but he's absolutely the sweatiest, and that's good enough for me because that's actually quantifiable. Well played. I respect that he fought in the suit. That really threw it over the top for me. The tight ass like vest. He stayed in the ringmaster thing, just threw some gloves on.

And he went for the double headlock like DDT basically. an unbelievable move. Got his ass kicked. It was going so well until they were like, hey, there's two of us and one of them actually held him up

while the other started kicking him to the body. That's how it goes. Banking no money. I don't remember who is the one that's awful, but it's, I love watching them fight because one of them,

like, is at least competent, and the other is actually maybe the worst fighter I've ever seen, including, like, babies. Like, he, I don't, it was either two or three,

he did it, and you see him, one guy's got the guy held out and he is rifling punches off this man's face and it was like rain hitting him nothing. He had a free shots and nothing happened

the worst fighter of all time and it's incredible to watch. Fight Circus 5 should be a lot of fun. So Casey, you can hit the music. Aunt Walker calling you mid-gen. That's fine. I'm pretty sure I tuned him up like several times on this program.

Hey, listen, you want to come back? Ant. You got an invitation, my man. So we are done. Enjoy the chaos over the next couple of days as we take you into UFC 281 and then eventually take you out of UFC 281. But thank you for watching this show for Jedbushu for Ben Duffy. Thanks to Casey on the ones and twos.

The iconic voice of Estherlin will take you home. I am Mike Eckack. Back next week to react to it all right here. I'm between the links. Good night, everybody. Love you guys. This has been Between the Links, a production of the Vox Media Network. To the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first, there, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes. Hi, I'm Sophia Loper Carroll, host of the Before the Chorus podcast. We dive into the life experiences behind the music we love. Artists of all genres are welcome. And I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks, like glass animals.

I guess that was the idea was to try something personal and see what happened. And Japanese breakfast. I thought that the most surprising thing I could offer was an album about joy. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, and remember, so much happens before the chorus.