MMA Fighting - BTL | Jamahal Hill's Masterpiece, Teixeira Retires, Moreno Shines, UFC 283 Fallout

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

At the end of UFC 283 this past Saturday, Jamahal Hill left the arena in Rio de Janeiro as the UFC light heavyweight champion after beating Glover Teixeira in the main event. With his incredible performance, a divisive conversation began about where he sits in the overall rankings at 205 pounds. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel will discuss Hill's title win, where he ranks in the division, and what could be next for the new champion whether or not Jiri Prochazka is ready to come back for Hill's first defense. Additionally, topics include the reaction to Teixeira retiring and what he meant to the sport, Brandon Moreno stopping Deiveson Figueiredo in the UFC 283 co-main event to regain the flyweight title, Figueiredo's options at 135, other standout performances from the UFC's first PPV event of the year, other news and notes from the past week, and more. Host Mike Heck moderates the matchup between MMA Fighting's Jed Meshew and Morning Kombat's Brian Campbell. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Follow Brian Campbell: @BCampbell Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Shop before they're gone. In-store online at Sephora.com. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of Between the Links. And ladies and gentlemen, as you're all very aware of, 2023. It's been a hell of a year so far, hasn't it?

First UFC pay-per-view is in the books. And this show right here, it could be, its own pay-per-view events. We're giving it to you for free because for the first time this year, we actually have a matchup on BTL, and it's a glorious one following UFC 283. We have two new champions, one feeling a bit disrespected. We have a lot to uncover, a lot to unpack from UFC 283 in the past week in our great sport of mixed martial arts in general. So let's get into it. Introduce the combatants first. Let us welcome back in the exhibition king, Mr. No Gray area, the co-escented. host of No Betts Bard, the man behind Damn They Were Good, and he is the Woody page of

Mammat Fighting.com. Mr. Jed Michoud. Hello, Jed, Mishu. Hello, Jed. Welcome back. You got me already mad. Like, our pre-production thing, I'm now just livid from our conversation. And it's not going to go well. I'm going to say some things I'm not going to be happy about. People are going to be really mad at me today. And it's all y'all's fault for what we were just talking about. I'm happy. to be here, guys. Yes, my master plan is coming together perfectly. And also joining us, and look, I can run down the resume, the list of accomplishments,

awards, we just don't have all day. But you know him for Morning Combat, CBS Sports Showtime. The man is everywhere. He is the bathroom stall fighting middleweight champion of the world, Brian Campbell. Hello, my friend. Welcome back to the program. Yeah, and in MMAB alumni, okay, so get that right on my resume. Thank you very much.

That's very true from the old MMA beat. Ah, how we miss those days. But let's get into this. Let's start with another world champion, Jamal Hill, because he defeats Glover Tashira. It was the best performance of his career. It was a bell-to-bell masterpiece in the main event of UFC 283. It was one of those kinds of fights where Jamal Hill winning was not surprising,

but perhaps the way in which he did it, that left people a bit wide-eyed. I've compared it in a lot of ways to the, Cody Garbrandt title win against Dominic Cruz where he just level up in a big way. And listen, give this man his flowers. He went into enemy territory and produced an absolute beauty, Brian Campbell. Did he not? Your reaction to Jamal Hill's big title win this past Saturday in Brazil?

Yeah, an absolute grown man performance out of Jamal Hill, who I think rightfully we had questions of not only does he belong at this level, rank number seven, but getting the title shot because of extenuating circumstances with an injured champion. and an interesting draw in the first vacant title bout. But, you know, Hill's trio of early knockout finishes that he had to get this fight, boy, did he double and triple down on the impressiveness of those now doing it on the road against a decorated former champion who we come to find out watching this fight at UFC 283, Glover Tashire was willing to walk through a hell and back uphill both ways to try to win this thing. So here's ultimately why this result was actually the best scenario for the UFC for us as, you know, in the no fans who tend to critique things,

is we find out after the fact from Glover Tashara's coach John Hackleman that he was going to retire win or lose on Saturday night, even though he said he wouldn't. He was going to pull the GSP all over again. So to see Jamal Hill not only be a younger champion right in the midst of his prime who'd yet to break out, be forced to show that on this level how good he is, it was really the otherworldly cyborg, you know, caveman performance from Tashire, that forced Jamal to show us every single thing he ended under the hood.

Five Ron stamina, elite takedown defense, the ability to adapt, a great chin. We knew about the power punching. He put it all together on this night because he had to. And the reason why that's the best thing for the division at large is the division has been a mess. You could actually make the case right now that the best light heavyweight in the world is not under the UFC banner. So to see Jamal Hill jump through my TV screen and prove it all night, as Bruce Springsteen would say, Uh, yeah, we got somebody on our hands who's capable and willing. I don't know if he's the best light, heavyweight in the world.

He's got to prove that. But as we stand right now, Jamal Hill is a very deserving UFC champion. You touched on something there that we will definitely get back into. But Jed, you got the smile on your face, but let's just talk about the performance itself on Saturday. Your reaction to it a few days later, have you gone back and watch it again? Do you appreciate it a little bit more? And we'll get into the aftermath of this because there's been a lot of it. I was with BC for every step of the way until his last statement of a very deserving UFC champion.

He is a UFC champion and he absolutely deserved to win that fight. Come on, man. We all know what happened here. Jamal Hill was not the first choice to fight for the title. He wasn't the second choice or the third or the fourth. He was there at the end when they were desperate to put a belt on some. somebody because that's how the promotional machine works. He deserves to win that fight, and he deserves to be considered as a top five light

heavyweight coming off that performance because everything BC said is right. That was the best performance of his career by a lot. We're going to get into where he stacks in the rest of the division and the disrespect, quote unquote. So I won't bog down on that right now. But the truth is, he has never looked anything remotely that good. Like even even a minute amount of that good. He leveled up to an extreme degree.

And it was a sensational performance against one of the guys who's been around. So credit to him, give him his flowers. He has the belt. This is probably the most paper UFC title of all time. If it's not, it's in there. You could argue Nico Montaño is, is like neck and neck with paper title. But yeah, this is a pretty paper belt.

So I will not say he is a deserving champion, but he's a deserving top five dude who deserves to fight for the real title as soon as that becomes an opportunity. Yes. So I want to build on this because BC laid it out and I'll go back to you, Jed, because I have not listened to all of the ranking show yet

on the M.A. Fighting Podcast. Now I'll listen to about 20 minutes of it this morning. And the aftermath of this win has been pretty divisive, Jed, for a lot of the things that you and BC pointed up because Jamal Hill felt disrespected heading into the fight. He probably feels more disrespected coming out of it

because in the NBA fighting global rankings, he is the consensus number four light heavyweight in the world. I have him fourth in my personal rankings to peel back the curtain. A lot of people in the space feel that we are disrespecting Jamal Hill with this ranking because right now, if you go to the UFC website, he is the UFC light heavyweight champion.

I've talked about this already. That ranking isn't meant to be a slap in the face to Jamal Hill because he looked fantastic on Saturday. It's more of praise to Yuri Perashka more than anything. Am I feeling that him no longer being the champion is just plain dumb and it makes no sense? And if the U.S. This is what keeps what I keep going back to, Jed. If the UFC just kept the belt on Yeri and made these two fights from 282 and 283 for the interim title, the way it should be, we would be having a moment. much different conversation right now.

We'd be pumping up Yuri versus Jamal Hill. How cool of a unification fight would that be? We wouldn't be having these disrespect conversations. This is just the way the UFC has always done things. And then to pull the belt off of Yuri Barashka after being sideline for a month is just absolutely ridiculous. So I ask you, Jed, are we disrespecting Jamal Hill? And do you understand why Jamal Hill would feel disrespecting

coming out of the biggest moment of his career. We are not disrespecting him. In general, fighters don't get disrespected by the media. There are key exceptions. I'm usually the exception because I'm usually here telling you that Michael Chandler sucks ass. Take which I stand by and we'll repeat as long as I have breath in my lungs. No one is saying that about Jamal Hill. No one even really said that before.

I was pretty close to being like, I don't think that he's very good because the tape said that he's not very good. And then he fought his ass off and now I'm not here to tell you that he's bad. I don't know if he is as good as he looked on Saturday because it's literally the first time he has ever looked that quality. And we saw Cody Garbrandt look like an all-world dominator against Dominic Cruz and then look at where the rest of his career is gone. Like I have no idea of this is a flash on the plan one-time performance or not. see my suspicion is that it's not and that he probably has leveled up but we're not disrespecting him by not ranking him as the top light heavyweight because the whole promotion is only doing it

out of like a weird oh well we we took the title from this dude for no reason like it's if glover had won that fight on saturday nobody in the world would be having this conversation nobody's been like well glover's the number one light heavy because we know he literally lost a year last year. It's the same thing. There is no reason that Yuri isn't the top dude.

I personally also have Magamette Ankelyev in front of him because I think that that's a viable thing. And I have Vadim Knavv. But not ranking you at the top doesn't mean we're disrespecting you. And there's a part of me

to answer the second part of your question. Like, I can understand why he feels that way because fighters are crazy people. Because this is not just Jamal Hill. This is really like half the fighters who walk around are the world's most sensitive little snowflakes. And if you don't think that they're the best fighter that ever there was, they take that as a sign of abject disrespect to them and fuck you, I'm going to prove you wrong. And that prove you wrong attitude probably gets them very far in life. It's also insane.

Because like saying, hey, I don't think you're the best dude in the world. At least you haven't really proved it. I do think you're like one of the five best guys in the whole lot of the world. In what rational outlet, like what other avenue is that disrespect? If I told you, Mike, heck, you are one of the five very best radio personalities

in the whole world. Would you be like, fuck you, Jed? I am number one. I hope you die and I will dance on your grave. No, it is a psychopath thing. And I thought this for years. We glorify Michael Jordan

because of this like psychopathic thing where if you actually listen to any of the stories about Michael Jordan, the elite competitor, he actually sounds like a sociopath who you wouldn't want to spend time with because that's, this isn't a good way to go through life. Love yourself, Jamal Hill. Don't care what any of us think.

Care only about what you think and feel in your heart and you will be a happier person. And then I won't have to hear you bitch about being disrespected because I think Yeri Perashka's better than you. See, this is why I got mad. I'm mad again. Just here in this world.

I'm so happy right now. Do you know how many people talk shit to me all the time on the internet, Mike? All the time. I bet our comments are filled with people being like, Jed sucks ass and cool. I don't give a shit what you think. You might even be right. Jed looks like he sucks ass, first of all. But second of all, you know, there's going to be a scenario in which

Jed takes a hot date to Dave and Busters one night and forgets about these comments. And then, you know, he runs into a good time, not a long time near the Papa Shop machine when Michael Chandler takes you out for that. But the only thing Jed was right about on this is that our job, wouldn't be the first time. Wouldn't be the first time, you see. Our jobs ultimately are to be, you know, critics and to fill time and to give hot takes. So it's a natural divide that's going to come between fighter and media member. But here's what I'll say ultimately about the Jamal Hill win and the disrespect.

Look, there were a million scenarios this fight could have gone where our aftertaste as critical fans and journalists would have been like, oh, shit, man, even if it was a great action fight, the best light heavyweight in the world isn't wearing the UFC's light heavyweight title. In fact, you know, not even close. I'm just happy that scenario didn't happen because Glover was the craziest of the crazy people in the cage this night and was willing to fight in a way that forced Jamal Hill to show it, as I mentioned.

So I don't think there's any respect on Jamal Hill's performance. I think it's a twofold argument here on the disrespect he feels. One is the natural thing that every athlete or team or coach when they win a championship says everybody count them to the South. And it's like, dude, Jamal Hill, you rank seventh. So everyone is going to count you out. And, okay, not count you out because the betting oddsman had Jamal Hill as the favorite. I picked Jamal. I was about to say, right?

They didn't count them out. The money didn't. So there's no real disrespect there. it's just the natural of like any any person, you know, with a brain looking at the scenario and the hasty decisions UFC made to go from the uncle I of Blahovic decision. And like you mentioned, just keep business as usual. We got to pull this bell of this guy. We got to have another title fight no matter what. That created a no win situation for Jamal Hill. And the only way he could win it was by having the performance he did over five rounds. So I'll give him that pass. I think the flip side is the overall

criticism he has received, which I've gone on record saying is I don't think it's necessarily fair in this instance. And here's what I mean. He's got a large group of fans in media who have decided they just don't like him, whether fair or unfair. And some of that is his public behavior, the tweets related to the aftermath of Dana White slapping his wife. To some people,

it was the celebration in the ring, which went from inspirational and emotional to almost like, fuck y'all, y'all type of deal. And look, that's his right. He can do that in that moment. But I don't, you know, I don't think you can, even for Jamal, look at those situations and not expect to get some level. of bad feedback or people overlooking you or whatever.

I mean, I think in this case, all that stuff that said, I think we have to separate it from this moment. As you said, give him his flowers. This was a considerable achievement. He went from, you know, not nobody, but somebody to somebody really special overnight now. He's got a lot still to prove. And even in this division, which is completely just in transition right now, you know, post-John Jones, there's still, you know, he's going to have to earn it the hard way.

And he's going to go out there and do that. But I thought it was a little bit weird, guys, even though I thought his comments, even if I took them out of wrong contest or whatever, about slapping and all that stuff, I thought it was abhorrent. I wouldn't want that on my Twitter account if I was a fighter. But I think people were using that distaste and just throwing as much negative to a certain degree at Jamal. I saw a lot of media and fans, you know, people being like, yeah, man, it's as cool that he won, a great performance. But this guy sucks ass as a person. It's like he might or he might not. I don't know.

but to me that's a little bit separate from the idea of does he deserve to be called the real champion and not a paper one. And I think that performance, even with the messy situation, and it's fucking messy. Let's be fair. Dude, he stood out that night. He, you know, he does, he earned, he earned everything. Come on. He earned a win. He earned a win over, I think I had Glover at the time ranked three or four.

I'm not here to take that away from him. And I'm not here to take the UFC title away from him. We talked about this on the ranking show. I'm just here to say that in the scheme of quality UFC belts, that's pretty low on the bar. Now, if he's as good as he was Saturday, like, I said on the ranking show that he has, like, he could legitimately offer John Jones problems. And I believe that, like actual John Jones-Lay heavyweight. I think he offers year-reveal problems. He has a chance to do that.

I don't, but I, you just can't tell me that, like, he deserves the full-blown belt in the same way. that like, I don't know, Francis Inganu did when he blew Stepe's head off. It's not the same. I brought this up on the ranking show, Mike, I don't know if you ever got there, where it's like,

do you all remember how much shit Daniel Cormier got when he won the light heavyweight title? And I like nobody, I don't think anybody's giving, people are giving Jamal shit for his personal choices. And I think that's valid because if you come out and say that you should hit women or that's an aggressive paraphrase,

but, you know, defend domestic violence, in other words. Like, you reap what you sow there, man. Like, I can't help you on that. I have not seen anyone be like, this dude had a bad performance or is a bad fighter. I have everybody's been like, wow, that was unbelievable. I haven't even people say, like, Glover's washed, which is what you would expect if people were trying to neck him on this.

Like, oh, Glover's just, what? No, it was just like, holy shit. Jamal beat that ass. And that's part of why this sucks because this should be this triumphant awesome moment, right? Where it is, oh, we've got a new dude here who's like real, like real real. This is interesting. He's relatively young. We can get him and Ancolaev and Yerri can be going at it for years. This will be sick. And instead, it's turned so negative and, you know, hand up. If you want to give me the blame or whoever, sure. But, Jamal is part and parcel to that.

Like, there is a, if he had not said shit after the aerial interview where he talks about, I just want my chance, my opportunity to prove that I'm the best, that was a heart-touching moment. Like that, that was a good moment and made me want him to succeed and certainly to see him succeed and do well. And then he's the one who fucked it up in the same way that you mentioned the post-fight. His post-fight started good. And then he immediately turns to fuck all of y'all.

Like, he is a party to the perceptions that are being created around him. And those don't have to coincide with who he is in the cage. Most fighters, or maybe not most, a lot of really, really good fighters are not the best people in the world. That's just what goes along in this sport. But I don't, I think that it's fair to judge him on all of this. Well, just to paint the picture, going back to what I said earlier, Had Belhovic, Ankleyev, or Glover won the title. I wouldn't have had either of those guys

the number one in my rankings. So just throw that out there. No disrespect to Jamal Hill. It's just the way that the division is. It's a unique set of circumstances to get to this place. But does Jamal Hill have the potential to earn that number one spot after one more fight? Absolutely he does beyond a shadow of a doubt. It just all depends on how this all plays out.

So BC, how does this all play out? Let's go back to you. How do we book Jamal Hill not? Like, do we keep him on ice? And let's hope that Yerry is just, the freak of nature. We all believe he is and he can heal at super incredible paces. Or do we go with somebody else, let Yuri rest, and then he gets the winner?

Like, how would you do it? It's a slippery slope because I think the rightful move right now, and we've already heard Jamal say that he's willing to wait a certain amount of months, you know, to find out if Yuri's comeback is as quick and aggressive as Prohatska has told, I believe, Ariel, that it's looking to be. So I think the best, the right move. is to rematch Blajav but I don't think they're going to get that because they both sort of violated the unspoken UFC rule which is you know we put you in a big fight you go out there

and you fight to the death to try to earn it you don't sort of backdoor your way into a draw and then argue about it afterwards they could just as equally easily go now we run this place and Kalayaev is probably the best live heavyweight under our banner right now even with that draw against bollhovic which was disputed I mean you know uncle Iv didn't score the fight but in my opinion he didn't do enough to leave no doubt and stamp it and go for it. So could they just reward him and give him that as a stay busy? They could. But I think there's interesting potential in building towards a Hill Prohatska fight in the promotion

could understand this, you know, Jamal's 31, but he feels like he's like 24 to us because he did kind of come not from out of nowhere, but from a position that we didn't look at him as a monster threat and then overnight here he is. but look I think the best scenario would be this. Let's do exactly what Jamal says. Let's wait until about April to see exactly where year he's at. If you can make that for the end of August or September, it's probably worth wait into that point,

especially since if there's any remaining thing that Hill has to do to prove that he's the real champion, it's go beat the guy who was last wearing it. I mean, that's how the system works. So that's the best case. And I actually would like Blohovic and Uncle I have to do it a second time. It doesn't have to be a featured fight, a main event or anything like that.

But just to give us what that fight was supposed to give us. In this case, it would be who's the number one contender. When they met in December, it would have been who's the vacant champion. But either way, this is a bed that the UFC has made, like I mentioned, where there was going to be a large number of potential really bad scenarios that played out of it, including Glover winning by rallying in the fifth round and then giving up the belt, GSP style, which we cannot overlook. The funniest outcome, B.C.

With now being the actual champion, and he earned it against somebody legit. Dude, there is a percentage of elite fighters. in this game that would have bought that a lot of them that would have buckled under what glover did even in the fifth round when i'm watching through my fingers he took hill down and with a full mouth it's like this could have been anderson silver versus chel sun and all over again and i'm actually glad it wasn't because jemal hall showed me enough to say like i said i don't know for sure if he's the best but i'm not going to sit here and really make any complaints about him actually being champion and if we have to wait for his first test to be against the guy who just held

it. Let's do exactly that. Jed, are we waiting for Yuri here? What are we doing? I just want to briefly say it would have been one of the funniest things that's ever happened in this sport if Glover had won the belt and then immediately retired and left it after all of the nonsense. It would have been just the biggest FU from Glover. I don't think that's what he would have intended it as, but that's certainly what the UFC would have taken it as and I would have died laughing. I think there are two ways you can go about this.

If I had my druthers, Jamal Hill would fight, not Yerry, just because as much as Yeri believes he has this aggressive plan to come back, et cetera, that's still a really long time away. And if he waits until April and then we test, see what's going on, and maybe he's like, cool, I'm on track. But then something gets offset or whatever. Like things can happen on that big, long, extended timeline. So I would just prefer just have him fight.

And again, I think it should just be magman ankle I have because I think he's the best heavyweight on roster. I think the UFC thinks that, which is why they were so adamant about him getting the title shot at 282 or whatever. And I know the Yon thing is a tough pill to swallow, but you just do it because that's what's happened. That's what I would say do.

But I don't think that's what's going to happen. I think they probably are going to wait for Yuri. And look, there's one really simple way to tie this all together. I know Connor McGregor just came out and was like, they offered me tough and they are going to do Michael Chandler. That seems like the worst idea possible because Connor hasn't fought in two years. And I don't know, putting him in Vegas for an extended period of time feels like playing with fire. Whereas instead, bring Yuri in from the mountains of the Czech Republic

and let him be weird on television for really long times, a tough coach. And I won't tell you I'd watch. tough because I will never do that to myself because I love myself. But that's at least like a compelling thing that they could have. The Yeri versus Jamal as coaches and kind of their very different styles, personalities and can build, as BC was saying, a guy who feels new who we don't have that much experience with. And frankly, with Yeri, it's very similar.

So you can let both of them get some more time in front of whatever fan base is that watch tough. You can build to this fight. we're not just burning the eight months while we wait for Yuri to get back. And it seems like if they're insistent on doing tough, do this. This feels like the best way to do it. Something tells me this. Yeah, go ahead.

Bezzi. I mean, you know, here's the deal, Jed. I mean, great idea and it would bridge that gap. But you think, you know, Tuft's already a dying brand that only Dana defends. And so we're going to put Jamal Hill and Yuri Prozka's personalities at top of there. like that's not a recipe for success. I can't believe you said something there that you hate this idea. I don't think there is a recipe for success with Tuff.

You said, you know, Connor McGregor, a tough doesn't interest you. Here's the deal. I don't like tough at all. I watched the first season, right? I watched the heavyweight season.

I watched the straw weight season. That's really about it. But you know what can get me back there watching it? And just about every casual fan, you know, you can link me in that group if you want to, is Connor McGregor with a messed up personal life gone forever coming back to this dead franchise reality show real world and trying to revive it.

I think that's a brilliant idea and probably the best thing you could do to try to save the show, bring a guy who has history on there and the sports biggest personality of all time. And you said, oh, put him in Vegas where there's trouble. Look, there's going to be trouble wherever this guy goes because that's the life he chooses to live. I'd rather have him in an environment that's fueled with trash talk and monoimano and training and get Connor back into that role again, right? whatever is left of that mystic magic, which, to be fair, I'm also tired of the whole Connor

experience. I think, though, you put those two back together. That's a, there's something there, but I don't need to see these two light heavyweights in a reality show at all. I just need this division to get back on track. I don't know if there's a scenario where John Jones loses to Cyril gone and then shed some muscle and comes back down and fights for this title again by the end of the year. I don't know what's going to happen for the future of this division. But said it before, I'll say it again. We actually have a young, exciting viable guy on top right now. So if it is Uncle I have yet next, or it is that the former champ there Perhatsk, who I believe gave up the belt on his own, the UFC did not strip him like you

guys were saying. I believe that's what my research tells me. That's, that's, listen, no, no, no, no, no. What this is is, if you read through the lines. Yeah, what this is, this is, this is, this is, this is Terry Francona. This is Terry Francona being fired from the Red Sox, but being, but it's being presented as it's an amicable split. We're parting ways. Yeah, that's exactly with that. That's Tom Coughlin getting to stick around for another year, even though he's a terrible coach of the Giants because they won a Super Bowl.

Like, that's just how it was presented. It still doesn't make sense. Even Yuri, like, the UFC could have just been like, Yuri, this is dumb. Like, why would you vacate the bell? We're not going to let you do it. And they were just like, okay, fine. It just, none of it makes sense.

It was a new idea. Yeah, I don't think so either. But we can talk about tough and all that stuff. And I have a feeling that this topic is going to come up again. So stay tuned for that. Let's move on to the next topic. We have a lot of UFC 283 to talk about the point. For round number one goes to Jedmishu.

One to nothing. I mean, he was in a very happy mood before. Yes, he was in a very happy mood before we hit record here. But five minutes before, change. But let's go boarding for flight 24. 6 to Toronto is delayed 50 minutes. Ugh, what? Sounds like Ojo time.

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Let's talk about Glover to Cher, because I think he deserves to be talked about here because, like we talked about, nonsense's retirement after loss would have done it anyway. So, Jan, I'll start you. The way this man finished his career, winning the belt, having an all-time classic with Yuri Perashka,

a fight he was a minute away, from winning and then just showing this incredible toughness in this Jamal Hill fight like BC laid out takes the dude down mounts him we're sitting there at the watch party like this is actually going to happen right now but credit to Jamal Hill but considering what this man was four years ago to where he ended things like how will you talk about this man on damn they were good we talked about doing one and we will at some point he uh his career has been fascinating if you look at it in the totality, right? Because for years, he was, he was the guy who wasn't in the UFC. We'd heard all about him forever, Hackleman, Chuck Weddell, you know, been telling us,

back in the days when he was in the WEC, but then he had the visa issues and prolonged, prolonged stretch where he can't make it in into the organization. And it's like, okay, and he finally gets in. He finally makes it to the UFC in 2012, 10 years ago. by the way, over 10 years ago. When he was 33, like he's old at that point for in the scheme of MBA. Like, I remember at the time it was, I mean, it would have been great if we got him in his prime, but we're at least getting him here just before the prime goes. He can still get some.

He makes the title run, fall short to John Jones. A lot of people fell short to John Jones. It is where it is. And that was supposed to be the end. Like, that was the end of his career. Because after the John Jones lost, like, he picked up some more. he would win some fights, lose some fights. Anthony Johnson just did rumble things to him.

Gustafson knocked him out. And he was just going to be a guy who maybe didn't make it to the UFC during his best years. And so we never got to see that. And instead, he was just a dude, a very, very solid guy, top 10 in the world for a good stretch. And in the last like five years, his career has had the most incredible renaissance where if you had told me, in 2018, 2019, right? Like four or five years ago, Glover Tashire is going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer.

I'm like, that's insane. What is he going to do? Is he going to win the light heavyweight title? And damn, he actually went and did that. Like he put together this unbelievable run with unbelievable performances, too, down the stretch at a time when he shouldn't have been getting better. He is one of the very rare fighters who ever improved to such an extent that even the deficiencies of his athletic and physical decline weren't as noticeable. Bispying was very similar.

Like by the time Bisping won the belt, he was a shell of himself physically. But his tactical and technical improvements had been so great. And let's be fair, the division broke pretty nicely for him in some ways that it worked out for him. And Glover had the same thing. Like, certainly the timing helps. I don't think he's ever the champion of John Jones just decides to have his shit together and stay at 205. But that's not what happened. And instead, he gets to have this unbelievable late career run where with one of the best fights that we've ever seen against Yuri Prakashka,

one of the most incredible performances against Jamal Hill, not in that he won or even looked particularly good, but just the heart and the toughness and the mental fortitude he showed in that. Like, you don't see that from most men ever. So just I don't remember the prompt here other than to talk about Glover's career. And it was sick. And he's now going to be a Hall of Famer, which a couple of years ago would have seemed insane. And I think he is undeniably a Hall of Famer and leaves the sport.

I know he's going off a loss and a pretty tough loss. still leaves the sport one of the best retirements that this sports had, which speaks a lot to how bad MMA retirements are, but also just the fact that he's going out after that kind of performance against one of the best guys in the world. Hats off to him, man. Never saw this coming.

BC, 10 years from now, after multiple more awards that you and Luke have won, when someone asks you about Glover-Teshirea, how will you respond? That's not BC. That is George and Jed right there. To me, he ended up being like the American, I'm sorry, the Brazilian Randy Couture. Like, you know, Randy Couture is not Captain America.

He isn't like this. He doesn't become an action movie star without doing things in his supposed twilight that you thought were impossible in the most like grassroots organic way possible. Now I say organic without seeing anyone's blood test. I think you get my point right there. But like the reason why I make that comparison is because Randy, to us of a certain age, as like a Paul Bunyan type, you know, legacy to him that, that supersedes the accomplishments and the two division champion. Now, I mean, it goes hand in hand at the same time. But the Glover thing

is interesting is, is that the late run in the championship allowed him inclusion with those of his contemporaries, the legends from Brazil that started in pride, although his path was different, but he's on the same age as Shogun who went away on the same night. Legends who went through pride just had a, I mean, really, an inhumane level of chin and mental toughness and focus. But, you know, he didn't accomplish the same thing as those guys across the board, Vondurlay, Big Nog, Shog, you know, Anderson, whatever. He gets inclusion in that group because he finally became a UFC champion and because this Twilight was so productive on such a high level.

But he has his own unique legacy within that, that is literally like the coolest legacy you can have. It's not just that we didn't see all this coming. It's like how many guys' careers end for injury or their chin falls apart or they just physically get too old a lot? But you do wonder how many guys just get to a certain point where they don't want it anymore or they're not willing to work as hard or harder, harder than they ever did. Glover is like that rare good things happen to good people, especially in this awful current MMA news headline climate that we're in. But it's also what happens if you try your absolute hardest for as long as you possibly can. you want it like you've never wanted it before and you're suddenly getting better.

He's getting more dangerous because as you mentioned, like Bisping, it's the experience. It's like when the experience catches up with the physical, you know, usually the physical falls apart quick. He was able to hold that together for a stretch where it's like his last two fights were spectacular defeats. You know what I mean? Like one in which he like got submitted by a non-jiu-jitsu practitioner when he just collapsed in exhaustion. yet the purity of the heart that he showed in those two fights, those were like arguably the two biggest wins of his career, like not even counting the upset, you know,

victory over Blahovic, which was just like one-way traffic and went his way, storybook ending. These last two performances showed you that he still had it. He may have been more dangerous and a better all-around threat and just altogether more incredible in this last two-fight stretch than he ever was in any other point in his career. Who peaks like that at that age on the way,

out, right? I mean, maybe Randy Couture. So I like that although Glover's never going to beat Big Noggin all those guys for the amount of combined championships and names that they beat, he's got his own unique tag on him for being like the ultimate guy's guy, the nicest guy in the room, but also the toughest and the coolest.

And that's exactly who he's been. And I actually love you know, the way he went out, it was a freaking Rocky story. It was the ending of Rocky won. Spoiler alert. No, Rocky doesn't win, but he wins. You know what I'm saying? Glover won this. He figured out how to beat this game in his own exact way.

And maybe him, you know, winning in a dramatic fifth round of victory and then putting the, putting the belt out in the middle of the cage would have been like the ultimate, ultimate, you know, move. But I'll take what I got from Glover, you know, as a consolation. 100% well said. And the beauty of this all is that he's still going to be around. He's got Alex Pereira still winning titles and maybe going up and fighting for a second one. if things fall in such strange ways.

And he's coaching a whole other generation of fighters in New England that just always seem to win when Glover is in their corner. So the man's going to be around for a long time. He's a tremendous ambassador for the sport. And we have obviously, we'll continue to see Glover to Chera at UFC events in the future, just no longer as a fighter. And much respect to Glover to Shera, what a career that man had. So let us move on.

Well said by both guys. It's almost unfair to give a point here, but we have to do it. So the point for round two goes to, you're right, Jed. BC, it's one to one. Hey, Jedd has matured in this rematch. He's a tough out right now. You know, he's coming on. And if you're coming on, Jed,

I don't think this is our third. I don't think this is a rematch. I think this is three. This is a rematch. You sent your henchman, Alexander K. Lee, after me last time, all right? But here I am back. I swear I thought we've done this twice before. Yeah, maybe.

I think you might have retired before the second meeting. Oh, maybe. Who convinced? It's so hard to put it all together. Yes, so many MA retirements. Perhaps we'll be building to a quadrology or a tetralogy, which is a perfect segue to what we're about to talk about. Brandon Moreno is the undisputed flyweight champion of the world, gentlemen.

The rivalry, what Davis of Figurato goes to the assassin baby. He looks fantastic. The man just continues to evolve, BC. So your thoughts on Moreno's performance? And just overall, the series of fights with Figurato as a whole following UFC 283, because I really hope that this rivalry between these two guys, despite it being in the flyweight division, I hope this rivalry ages as well as it deserves to be. Yeah, so I love this rivalry.

I will say it didn't, you know, some people thought we were overrating it heading into the fourth fight. And what if this fourth fight isn't a, you know, killer, all fight of the year contender back in fourth war, which it wasn't, by the way, with that, you know, watered down the old summit significance here. I say no because it was four title fights for Figurado. They were all in succession and they were all in their own way, you know, the combination of dramatic and educational in terms of where there are and their growth and all of that. It won't get the all-action full-on stamp at the end. And the reason why is because Moreno not only won this rivalry to one-to-one in terms of actual scoring,

his two victories were stoppages. And if we, you know, go back and look at a closer, one-sided fights. So I learned in the end that Moreno is the younger, fresher fighter who's in the right way class based on how hard it is to actually make that cut. And he showed us some solid improvements throughout this series. I mean, look, the most impressive moment of this series to me is still then-34-year-old Figurato coming back from being stopped by Moreno to change his game plan, add some wrinkles, and find a way to get a close decision

and a pretty tactical fun fight. But in totality, the two stoppages from Moreno overall and the adjustments he made to get there show you that he's probably the better fighter overall and certainly has a chance here in the aftermath of the long DJ run that kicked off this division, the short little and sweet Suhudo one,

which maybe ultimately saved it. Moreno is the guy probably, probably because there is Pantosia in the building who's got two wins over Marino already, including one by stoppage on tough, probably is the Moreno being the guy who has the best chance to actually make a rain here. I mean, this flyweight division posts those two great champions I talked about in the midst of the threat of it being canceled, like just turned out to be awesome.

And there's so much parody at top and all these fights are so close. And really, anybody in this top five or six can get hot. Brandon, Roddog, Royville, anybody could just get hot and go on a run of the title. But the changes I've seen Moreno make at the highest level here and how willing he was to say, look, the third fight, you know, I read my clippings a little too much. I started thinking about my own future a little bit too much. I like that humility. Same humility he showed when he got caught and came back.

And you add in the James Kraus factor switching camp, switching all that, all that uncertainty. And Moreno went out there and stop this guy. Yeah, I like him in more ways than just as like first Mexican-born UFC champion. Could he be a thing if they back him? I like his well-rounded game. I like his mindset, his ability to make adjustments. I think he's got a chance here.

I mean, Pantoja is going to be a tough out, and there's a couple other guys. I'd love to see him either fight for the first time or in a lot of cases rematch again. But this is a mature pound-for-pound-level fighter coming in full bloom, and he had the dance partner and the natural heel villain that is figurato to push him to that. And then the knee injury and he was sick for a lot of the camp.

And, yeah, the Krause thing doesn't get talked about enough because he didn't have a ton of time with that all-star group of coaches that he put together. And like Safe Sayyud said, it's not just getting guys together. It has to gel. It has to gel. There has to be a flow.

And it was and it all worked out for a better merino. But Jed, your thoughts on the rivalry and Moreno's big win. He's the undisputed champ. That's probably the best rivalry in UFC history. Not for stakes or, well, stakes isn't the right word. Not for broad appeal because, you know,

your mom doesn't know, Who the hell Brandon Marino, Davidson-Figuero are? But we're talking four fights, two went to the cards, two third-round finishes. What's that? 50-60-plus minutes of in-cage fight time at an elite-level. You don't get that. Like, the only thing that I can think from an in-caged perspective

that's as close off the top of my head is Max Holloway, Alexander Volkovsky. And their third fight wasn't like competitive, but their other two fights were extremely competitive. And so we're talking very rarefied air as far as this rivalry goes. I'm with BC though. And I thought it coming in. I thought Morano was a better fighter. I thought they had a compelling argument to having won the third fight.

And even having lost it, that fight felt to me like he lost the battle, but the war was done. you know because to me look and certainly looking back it feels that that's even more true but that fight felt like figurato had to make some pretty major adjustments to tactics and strategy that once that bell is wrong it doesn't get unwrung and he can't keep doing that and so that's why i felt really confident marino in this one that's what it looked like marino came in adjusted to what what figurato was bringing and figurato had no answers you know the stoppage is like a little wonky but totally legit totally fine and marino was kicking his ass anyway so i think this dude is if he's not the best flyweight in the world i think he is the the best fighter in the world that

fights at 125 pounds we have the whole rankings thing with demetrius johnson and how stupid ass shit one championship is with the weight and so i have dj as my number one flyweight and i still would because i think of those two dudes fought tomorrow i think that that favors dj tremendous but as far as dudes who actually make the weight of 125 in fight, I think it's Brandon Moreno and I think that he is going to really start to solidify his career legacy in the upcoming fights. I think he is going to put the wood to Allie Pants. And I like Pantoja, but I think Moreno is just,

he is ascending right now to being that dude. That fight's going to be fun as hell. and then we can get, I don't know, Mano Cop is coming on strong, Mateus Nicolao coming on strong, like some rising contenders. Flyweight is sneaky, sneaky fun, but I think this is Moreno's division for the next year, year and a half until, and maybe even past it, Muhammad Makayev, if he ever decides to get mean and want to actually hurt people

instead of gently cuddle them for 15 minutes at a time, he can be a very serious threat to Moreno, but until then I really like Mariner's chances against the rest of the dudes in this division and some of those fights are just going to be incredible barn burners to watch. Yeah, but you can't confidently say, you know, I could see him still with the belt in two years.

He didn't have that chance to prove it. Does he have the well-rounded skill? Yeah, but dude, I mean, he's going to have to hear from Kai Kar-France again who was beating him before that. I'll say it. I'll say it. What do you want to bet? I mean, you know, maybe he's lucky Ascar Ascarov's not coming through that door

a second time. Do you know what I'm saying? Maybe in that regard. here to add all shit on this rivalry because I'm the guy after the third fight and into the fourth that was like, no, folks, really, this is one of the best rivalries in history. But I don't think the fourth fight did anything to improve that reputation where it was at through three fights. And I think because of that, it'll get talked about.

But I hear you going, you know, this is like the best rivalry. I think in UFC history, well, except for if you, if you click on this box and this box and this box and this box and this box on the subhead to, you know, remove some elements of it. I mean, it's not better than Jones Cormier from a feeling standpoint. It's not better than Nate versus Connor from an anything standpoint. It's not better than Frankie versus, you know, uh, freaking, you know, who I'm talking about. Great.

The guy. The guy. Great Maynard. This is very much. The damn bully. This is better than all of those from a technical standpoint, not from a vibe, certainly not from an energy or vibes, but from like a what they, like the actual fights.

Maybe D.C. Cormier, maybe not. Those two fights were really something to behold. But this is better than any of those from like their fights. Matt Hughes had a bunch together too. I mean, there's been some great rivalries. I want to just say at the end of the day that this four pack is unique in its own right. It was pretty damn cool.

But it didn't do what it had the opportunity to do. And I know that the end of the day, Jed, you understand that. You recognize that. Do you mean like it didn't elevate them because they're small men and no one can elevate flyweight beyond a certain level? it didn't like i'm genuinely asking i don't know what you mean you didn't do what of this rivalry i think we needed to have a competitive fourth one for for this rivalry to really be in that conversation of best and i think you were a little too haphazard to say you know well this might be the best you know

i'm just i'm strictly talking of like if i have to rewatch their fights those are four pretty solid fun fights to watch i'm willing to agree i am happy we didn't get a great fight though because I didn't, I know a lot of people were like, I'll watch them fight 100 times. I didn't want a fifth. Like it would have been okay. But if that was a good fight, we're just going to get a fifth. Figgy's not going to move up to 135. We're just going to do this forever.

And I want to see Pantosia get his shot. I do too. And Figy is the ultimate badass. But like it's roulette every time he was trying to hit on that scale. And I don't see how anyone could say any differently. You're either going to get 75% of him and 75% of him might be able to win that title. Or you're going to get a guy. who's, you know, affected by that because, I mean, he looked dead with his shirt off Wednesday

of Fight Week. He, a thousand percent did. My problem is that I think 75 percent chance to win a title is better than a hundred percent chance to get thumped up at Bannonweight because Figgie Ankle have a good time of moving up weight class, man. I mean, it'll be a short time. It is just going to be problems. Yeah.

Unless he gets Cody Garbrand, I'm standing here. I'm a man asking the M.M.A. gods. Give us Figgie. Garbrandt. I know Garbrand's fighting some dude. They talked about doing it $1.25. Just make that one be his debut. I don't care if Garbert wins or loses, frankly. That's

the debut fight. It will be incredible. Do you agree at that, B.C? Or do you have a different idea for Figuilla 1-305? No, it's actually becoming difficult. I don't want to say it's becoming difficult to disagree with Jed Metschew because that's, I don't know if that's really a true statement, but it's becoming

more difficult to stand at times so aggressively on the other side of the field against him because he's the, he's the trailer park version of a gas station me, you know, so that might sound like an insult, but I'm looping myself in there. I mean, this, you know, we may have drinking the same water in different areas of the country growing up, Mike Heck, okay? So, you know, good, congratulations. You follow somebody, somebody who I can look across from with the Spider-Man meme and go, yeah, I've seen that energy before and I kind of like it, you know what I mean? Yeah. I love the two degrees of separation. The trailer park version of a gas station

me. Not just one of those. I'm not gas station BC, the trailer park version of gas station BC. That's amazing. I'm the three-day-old roller dog at the gas station, not the fresh one. Well, let's see how this next topic will motivate the two of you guys is this new tandem because, I mean, I do want to touch on Gilbert Burns. Great win for Johnny Walker. Great one for Justka Andrage. And while Androge looked phenomenal, the story in the aftermath, has been about Lauren Murphy clapping back at everybody who chastising her corner for not stopping that fight. Obviously, Lauren Murphy took a lot of damage. The craziest stat to me that I saw was that she took like 30 less significant head strikes over those three rounds than Zhang Wei

and Yawani and Jacek took combined in their first fight over five rounds, which is friggin insane. But B.C., Lauren defending her corner, we've seen it many times before. That's what fighters do. but this has become a big topic since Saturday. What have you thought of this? Especially like her reaction, her just getting after everybody on Twitter about this. You know, it's like a lot of times we have to pick how aggressively

we're going to react to somebody's reaction and then it just further on down the chain and then everyone comments on your YouTube clip and says, you know, you're a cancel culture leader and all that. But in this case, it's like I give her a pass because, you know, it was emotional afterwards

and she felt like a lot of, parts of her foundation were being questioned, but I think she got it all wrong. I mean, her argument and response was ultimately, like, I am tough. We know you're tough. No, that's the point. We know you might be like Glover, too tough for his own good, only obviously the difference.

And you mentioned those punch stack comparisons, which really, you know, show you it. This wasn't a competitive fight at all. And Glover actually looked like he was one punch away at times from like winning that thing. And that was a title fight. And he has a history of not just fighting through craziness, but being a finisher.

a two-way finisher, if you want to say it, whereas that's just not, you know, her history. So I was surprised how quickly this discussion died when we last had it after Pennington versus Nunes. And that was a, you know, a different scenario altogether, too, not just because it was a title flop, but because the fighter was the one asking out and the corner wouldn't listen,

which, you know, is a rough spot to be in. But no, she's completely wrong and off here. And I do like, it's tough. Because in boxing and MMA and combat sports at the highest level in general, I think the direction is going in the right direction of, you know, power slap, notwithstanding, of trying the best to marginalize the rules just enough to make more room for safety. And, you know, you see boxing matches stop before a 10 count in a lot of situations where the referee just makes an instant decision.

And in this case, there's just no history of her winning. And she's not even defending these at all besides her face. There's nothing to gain here. And it's, uh, in, and I get that the more we talk about that, the more instances that pop up, it's going to be like, you know, at some point fighting won't be fighting anymore because it'll be too sanitized and you can't sanitize it. So there is a line. But I think we, we, we need to get past this sort of like old school caveman, cavewoman way

of thinking that there's, you know, some type of moral victory in, and really physically bad losses like this. you're always going to have that argument for the title fight or I even tried to make the case for Calvin Cater that's his title fight ABC against Holloway so in the fifth round are you hoping there's a chance he could put something together even that's a different scenario than this fight

the only thing I thought that she mentioned when she said double standard that I do wonder I said this in morning combat if we don't have this discussion enough do we have some type of natural bias double standard where when we see a female getting beat up you know, in a match that we're quicker to want to jump in. That actually might be true.

There might be a double standard within that. But this was the wrong reaction to the wrong scenario to try to defend for the fighter here. And, you know, I'm not mad at her. I get it. It's emotional. She's trying to stand up tall. And there's a little too much of her talking about, like, the media will never be happy. No, the media is never going to be happy.

A lot of the media are idiots, too. A lot of them actually might be scuba like Dana says. You can call me one of those if you want to. But again, our job is to fill time on shows like this and make interesting, really critical statements about situations. You can't be looking at the media as your, you know, as your applause meter or your or your motivation either. I mean, I guess you could use negative stuff as motivation. But, you know, that's not the battle you want. Like, go talk to your corner over whether that was the right call.

That's probably the better conversation to have right now. Jedd, your thoughts because the take I consistently continue to hear is her corner deserves all the blame, the referee deserves none. And I don't necessarily agree with that because I actually think the referee deserves some blame here. I think he has to have the wherewithal to understand what is happening. And if you are going to allow Lauren to go out in that third round, you need to have the wherewithal to be like, all right, you can do this. You're responsive in the corner. They're letting you go, but we're going to keep a short leash on you. And Jessica just put up even more numbers in that third round than she did in

the previous too. And, you know, I heard Luke Thomas talk about the, they know the fighter better than anyone response. And I do agree with him in a lot of respects. But I do also kind of understand where Lawrence coming from because one of the people in her corner is actually her husband. So it's almost like if my wife was in my corner, and I got my ass kicked and she let me go.

I, of course, would go on Twitter and defend her. So I don't know if that's neither here nor there. But now that we've seen Lauren's reactions to all this, and you hear like the consistent take, corner gets the blame, the ref gets none. What do you think? I'm fine with it. I have a pretty clear how I think that this would work optimally.

And it's the ref shouldn't stop fights like that. That's on the corner to stop. because for all the reasons Lauren Murphy thinks that fight shouldn't have been stopped. She was fighting back. She was not prone or defenseless. Her defense was not effective, but she was making tangible efforts to do something. And I have long believed that that's kind of the line that should be drawn because otherwise, we're getting into a spot or from a sporting aspect.

I'm a little uncomfortable with how much power the referee will have to dictate. winners and losers in that regard, whereas she's pretty clearly fighting back. And no point in that was she ever not defending herself. I think that that is why the corner is the one who should stop this here. And for as much as I respect what Laura Murphy has been through and I can maybe understand her position, I agree with Brian. I absolutely think there is a double-stap. applied between men and women.

I think that that standard has, that gap has closed in recent years, but certainly early on, who, buddy, there were all, all the time that conversation was being had when the, when women first made their debuts in the UFC. That is not any part of what happened here. A full-blown ass kicking was unleashed on her, and it was not good for her. And as much as Lord Murphy wants to say, I have two black eyes, but I'm fine. that's not how this works. To be very, very serious here,

how many times did you look at Muhammad Ali after fights and his face was like unrecognizable or whatever? The damage is not what is done to your face and you're like that. It is what is done to your brain over years and years of this. And Jessica And Drodge, undeniably one of the hardest hitting women in this sport. put 96 freaking significant strikes on her in that last round in a fight where she couldn't win where it was very evident from the first minute

that Lauren Murphy didn't have the tools to compete here. And that fight should have been stopped in the first minute and it probably shouldn't have been stopped after the first round. But after the second round, when she was down, I don't know what she was down officially on my scorecards. She was down 20 to 16 with, and it's not like Lauren Murphy's a finisher. She does not have the tools to win this fight

and she went and took 78 more headshots in that third round. It's just like that. I am not concerned about how you feel this week or next week. I'm concerned about what you were going to look like, Laura Murphy, in 20 years when there's a story on MMAFinding.com, great website about how Lauren Murphy is having issues with memory or whatever. Like Spencer Fisher, if you have not read Stephen Morocco's story on Spencer Fisher, I implore you to go do so because that man has had a tough, tough go of things being in wars just like that.

Frankly, more competitive fights than what Lauren Murphy just had to offer. And the fact that we talk about it all the time, and I know fans hate this shit, but the UFC doesn't provide these people with the appropriate medical care and the appropriate compensation. And so Spencer Fisher is left sort out here on his own dealing with very severe issues. and, you know, work in a gym to make ends meet. Lauren Murphy, you never won a title and you're never going to. You are a perfectly good fighter. Some might say a great fighter, but you're not going to get to that life-changing forever money.

And so the only thing you have to take with you is your health. And every fighter leaves a piece of themselves in the cage. You've seen that from the start of this sport to the start of boxing. You leave some, but it is a question of degree. how much are you leaving in there? And you may want to, but that is a decision made by you right now. And you have to live with it, not me, so at the end of the day, you can defend this. But this is pretty objectively indefensible.

And I can say objectively, you know why? Because Lauren Murphy has a tweet, Mike. She has a tweet on this very subject. I don't know if you saw my Twitter where I put them together, but from a year ago, a coach's first priority is to keep the fighter's self. The athlete's safety is the first priority always. Coaches or trainers that don't understand this or don't do it do not deserve to work with athletes. Hashtag, not that hard to understand.

So take it from her. Take it from Laura Murphy herself. This was not complicated. This fight should not have continued. And that is not disrespecting her or her toughness. It is respecting the fact that she has a life to live after this and that she wasn't going to win that fight. You don't win them all. Some days you get speedbacked.

That was her on Saturday night, and it would have been better for all parties involved if her corner had said, hey, you know, it's just not our night. We've seen too much of this. We're going to stop it. And that's all we're asking for. Yeah. I was just to say, I thought I was going to get the sound effects from Casey. I don't really know where the applause. Yeah.

I mean, you're about to get a point. I mean, there's no doubt about that. I think it's possible I've been set up here because the irony of that moment, and that was impressive. from a guy like that, right? From that guy, that guy over there, right? I mean, that guy just delivered is he just made a Jamal Hill like leveling up since last time I've been on this show. It's incredible, you know? So, you know, from sweet dreams to sweet creams over here, Jed Meshu, congratulations, man.

I don't know if you're the best light heavyweight in the world, but you just won that point. I'm not. I am not. I also want to say on that note, Glover should have been stopped after the fourth round. I understand why, and I have less of an issue with it. just because that was his final fight. So, like, I at least get the inclination like BC was saying. But objectively, that fight should not have been allowed to go to the fifth.

I watched it through my fingers. And the last time I did that was Mark Haunt versus Bigfoot Silva part one. Remember that one? Remember that? Oh, that was down under that was the last round of that, I was like, oh, my God. You know, that was, yeah. Fight was brutal. It was brutal.

I do want to end 283 talk on more of a positive note. So real quick, rapid fire, BCL, start with you. Outside of the main storylines, who was UFC 283's six-player award winner? Who was the low-key MVP? You know, it's weird. It'll probably, if you ask this on a whole, go to like the bone theme bros who like kicked your TV screen in or Jalton Almeida at heavyweight. Like there was a lot of, I mean, look, there were 17 fighters from Brazil in 15 fights.

on this car. There were a lot of emotional breakthrough moments, but, dude, how about 36-year-old Gilbert Burns? How about, like, as much as he has been angling to try to get the type of fights that it seems he's teasing today on Twitter has just been signed, and I think

Mazvedol just tweeted something similar. Who knows? But it seemed like he was going, like, the action fighter route for big money, but, like, this performance over Neil Magni and the way he did it, like, first of all, it was almost Chimaev like and second of all

dude he's still in this welterweight title discussion like in a big way so whether he does get Colby next or Mazvidal which I could connect the dots and say that maybe he gets Balal next I don't know but like no one thought he was washed or was I mean look there's not enough

truthers out there that he deserved a decision against Hamzaa right there's not even enough people saying that we knew he still had it but I think there was a belief that he was entering into okay let's let me be my own Michael Chandler right now Let me cash some big checks and make some action fights. But if he commits to his ground strength, you know, he got in love with the knockout because he became so well-rounded.

And he did knock down the champ, Boosmond, in the first round of his title fight. Don't forget that. But if he goes back to being that dude whose main goal is to get you to the ground, when you look at the players out there, he could still win this thing. And I don't know if I thought that coming in, right? Like that performance, that woke me the hell up in terms of, what's still under the tank.

We always know he's willing, right? But like, that was another gear. I didn't expect in this matchup, even with him as like a minus 550 favorite. Yeah, much like you said, Jamal Hill needed to do exactly what he did on Saturday night. I feel like Gilbert needed to do exactly what he did on Saturday night, and he did exactly that.

So, Jed, is he Gilbert Burns for you? Is there somebody else? Gilbert Burns, maybe he's finally convinced me that he's good, which I have for years just been opposed to. not that he's not good, but that he was like a top 15ish lightweight, so why would he be a top three welterweight? He just didn't track. That was just a world-class ass kicking.

But no, like, look, come on, man. Like, I love Gilbert Burns. I do agree with BC. He actually still has a shot to win this whole damn thing and have that sort of late career title win that is monumental. But there's one dude who was the topic of our ranking. show and one dude who has barnstormed the heavyweight slash catchweight 1-220 division cruiserweight Jailton Almeida look everyone expected him to do this and that's fine he still

went and did it against the top 15ish dude and we've seen like I'm not here to tell you shmiel Abderakamov is like the best fighter ever we've seen him get beat we've seen him get comprehensively beat but zero strikes I don't know if that's true I may have just made that stat up, but it's not like Shamil landed anything. And every time the level raises on Almeida, he still just looks unbelievable. Like, I don't, there are people, people who work in this industry and have worked for years in our Slack channel saying that Jailton Almeida is that like will win the heavyweight belt as soon as he gets the opportunity. And not jokingly, like just believing that in their bones. This dude is a rocket ship right now.

And I think at some point he's going to get checked. But for the time being, he is on a Hamzat Shamaa of level of hype. And it's like he's d'isly the story for me of the undercard, certainly. It's great pick. We're not even going to go through the theatrics of the third round point because we already know where it's going. Jed just gave everybody chills with that Lauren Murphy thing. So we'll go right into round four. We'll go to some news and notes.

We'll rifle through a few of the. and see where we go. So... Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line. But first... There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.

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BC, I want to start with you because you mentioned you've been on this show before, and I don't know if it was the first time or the second time, but it was right after the second time. Salt Lake City card where Luke Rockhold fought Paul Costa and then retired from the sport. And you gave, I mean, one of the greatest hats on the back to Luke Rockhold that he's probably ever received in his career. And then right here, back on your next appearance, we find out Luke Rockhold is not retired anymore. And in fact, he convinced the UFC to release him outright from his contract. So your reaction to not only Luke Rockhold, on announcing his retirement, but now he's a free agent and he can go fight anywhere and anybody.

So it's interesting. Sexy name, the idea that there still could be something of some level left in that tank, but I needed to end up, like, it's weird. Even after he retired after that crazy fight with Costa and the blood and everything there, if you would have said, oh, he's just going to come back in a few months, do you think that's a good idea? Even at that point, even in the emotional aftermath, I don't think I fully got what happened in that fight.

Like, if you missed it in the coast of fight, a transaction took place in which Luke Rockhold, always his own worst enemy because of the level of arrogance, which he fought with. And at some point, that arrogance type kind of took over for him, you know? And it's like, I'm never going to take away the upset loss.

I was sitting there in the first throw in L.A. when Bisping, you know, had his moment and it's Rockhold's fault. But, like, that's who Rockhold became throughout all his inactivity in recent years. Just like kind of fought like a knucklehead. a lot. And in ways that overtook how skilled he actually is and how little he actually has fought throughout his 30s, you know, so is there some idea, is there really some potential juice left if he wants to do it? I needed to see that performance against Costa to know that there's fight in him still and that he still really wants this. And I think he discovered that in the

moment under the romance of like, wait, this is my last fight. I'm not going out like this and just did like incredible things in that fight. Like heel moves, but, but, but, but, you know, the kind of heels that we love. Like Rick Flair like moves in that. So I'm actually intrigued, especially if he, especially if he steps down the matchmaking. And he mentioned he's a free agent for boxing or any, you know, MMA promotion, but he specifically doubled down on, well, hey, Koker and I have a good relationship going back to Strike Force.

I think him at Bellator, if he wants to stay the path of, I want to actually coming in here to try to win the title at 38. That's kind of interesting to me, given the top 10 and the potential matchups there, which includes, you know, Gagard Musassi and the champion, of course, Johnny Eblen, and Tokhov's coming on February 4th as a big title opportunity. And, you know, you got Vanderford. There's still a couple names there. I kind of feel like he could make a run there.

It could kind of be interesting. And I know that's not always what Bellator wants to be seen as giving, you know, UFC fighters on the way out this potential to have another time under the light. But as long as he can rein in the things that led to him. his undoing in that in that final run of his career, including the Blahovic fight, which he looked actually physically incredible at 205 and just kind of, you know, leaves his chin out there, leaves his guard down in ways that are unexplainable. You remember the Strike Force version of him?

You know, remember him who bounced back from fighting that alien Vitor in 2013 and one on that run? Like, if that guy's still in there to some degree, it's not out of question that he's in some pretty interesting fights. You know, I know he'd probably prefer to take boxing crossovers and get big money. And if it's all about money, then, you know, pay that man his money. Go for it, whatever. But if he still wants to fight, I could see him winning this Beltor middleweight title or at least having a shot to, and I'd be intrigued on the journey there. And I'm from a guy who, you know, did the love, hate, love hate cycle a few times with this guy. Because Rock holds him unbearable a lot

of the times, to be fair. But man, am I just, I'm always intoxicated by his talent. And I think he's got the eye of the tiger and again for whatever that's worth. I don't know if you if if that and 75 cents will still get you a cup of coffee but I saw something in that coast of fight and Jed I think you felt it too. I know the things you feel and they're weird too. They're real weird. Your search history is a mess. I know it is bro but you know that that's fine. That's cool right? That's it's who you are. I hate that me of BC are so alike. He said a lot of things I agree with Mike. I don't think that Rockhold has the juice anymore.

But my assumption is that he left whatever he had in the cage with the Costa fight. The Costa fight was, I am so upset. I have been really upset at MMA fighting for on very few occasions. One of them was the year that Max Holloway was fighter of the year because he beat Josiah Aldo twice. And he only won that because one rogue panelist. didn't like give Demetrius Johnson any credit at all,

despite two big wins and that being the flying mighty arm bar or whatever. That had me very upset for a long time. As you can see, I can still recall it. I was incredibly disappointed that Rockhold Costa did not make our fight of the year list. That I was in fact the only person who put it in their fight of the year rankings this year or for 2022, because that fight was magical. It was, there's, there have been a million MMA fights in my 20 years of fandom or whatever. I have never seen one where a guy is just hopelessly fighting his demons and father time.

Like, and like that's what it was of him just being like, I don't have it. And I will not go quietly into that. good night so I will rub blood on you and yell, fuck you while I kick just fruitlessly. It was the most incredible fight. And the fact that we didn't give it any love, it's going to hurt me for a long time. But the fact is, I think that was probably whatever Rockhold has left to offer. I have to assume that he left it all right there, thinking that that was the final frame of his career.

I'm sure he's done this. And this feels a lot like a cash grab, which, you know, good for him. It's going to be a real, real tough scene to watch him get left hooked into unconsciousness by Jake Paul. But I think Jake Paul can throw a left hook. And Luke Rockhold has shown nothing in his whole career that says he can defend one. So that's probably how that's going to go eventually. But if he goes to Bellator, like BC, I will have an odd fascination. Because this isn't the best dude in the world.

Like, by any stretch, he is not a Glover to share a level of good guy. but part of him is fascinating when he's not revolting in that some of the stuff he has done in a cage is unparalleled. Like, I stand by this. I actually firmly believe he is the most incredible top position grappler I've ever seen compete in the sport. Because, like, Islam and Habib and their ilk were un, like, we all know, we don't have to go into that. watch every second Luke Crockhold had on top of somebody. It was not control and just suffocating pressure. It was watching a man drowned violently because somebody is shoving their head underwater.

He throttled Chris Wydenman to a dislike. And Chris Widman is a good grappler. And Luke Crockhold just obliterated him every moment he got on top. it was the most incredible thing I'd ever seen fighting and we got so few like instances of that and I think that that's probably gone now but if he goes to Bellator

I will begrudgingly be interested in a Gaghard Musassi fight in a Yoel Romero rematch I mean Johnny Ebblin will probably tune him up but like those are fights that despite my better judgment I'm like yeah I'd tune in I would tune in it's better than whatever the hell Bellator's got

Marcelo Gohm fighting Daniel James in the headliner of it because reasons like for just get him get him for that because he's at least a better headliner than that shit so I'll keep watching

because he will he will not fight somebody who's useless because Luke does not have that in him like his big weakness is the ego he will fight someone with a name and so there will be some level of interest drawn there

but I don't think he's making a run. All right. Well, I like it. I forgot the actual best answer too is he should fight Francis Ngano now. Oh, come on.

Jesus Christ. I meant to lead with that. All right. It's like farting before you leave the room with that kind of talk, right? It's like, thanks for the parting gift, Jed. Appreciate that, you know. You're telling me you wouldn't tune in to watch

Francis and Gano, Luke Rockhold? I like a lot of crappy gas station fights, right? But, you know, yeah, somewhere deep inside of me, there's still a rockhold super fan, and that guy is screaming no to that idea. So no, please. Maybe we can get Rockhold Verduem now. Bring back that old magic and the Bellator.

There we go. Well, there were more news and notes, but for the sake of time, we were going to move on. We don't need theatrics. We'll do it anyways. The point for round four goes to, it goes to BC because, I love Jed's answer when you say,

We're too much alike. Well, there's compliments being thrown around before you give yours. That's usually not a good sign. It's usually a sign of a 10-9 round. I thought he was giving it to him because he didn't offer a sanctioned murder. Yeah, that too. I mean, there are many reasons I gave it to BC, but I'm trying to be nice here. But that means we're going to knock our round.

We haven't done one in a while, but here's how it's going to work. Same question for both gentlemen. We touched on this a little earlier. Each competitor will have one minute to answer. once we do that, we'll turn it over to the peeps. You will judge, you will vote, and then we will announce the winner. So, Jed, prerogative, what are we doing?

I'll go first, sure. Okay, well, you already kind of touched on this. Connor McGregor posted to Instagram. He has been asked to coach the next season of the ultimate fighter in lieu of a potential comeback. So in 60 seconds or less, Jed, will Connor's presence be enough to get you to watch? I think you already touched on that.

And if you had the bookmaking decision, who would be the opposing coach? We could just go at that. Who would be the opposing coach for Connor McGregor if you had the book? One minute on the clock. Go. I mean, look, there's nothing that's going to make me watch tough.

So just to get that out of the way, ooh, good music drop as I start. Look, the answer is Michael Chandler. And if there is, Is anyone who could maybe get me to watch that dynamic? I don't think I'd tune in, but I would be, I'd peruse Twitter to see, like, what the highlight drop is from composer or whatever, something that happened between those two, because bombastic personalities, certainly.

And I think, especially if you tell Michael Chandler, hey, you're finally getting in the counterfeit, and you're going to have a whole bunch of time to really try and build this. He's going to yell a lot because that's where he's. likes to do. He loves to get very enthusiastic and yell and straight to the top or see you at the top, whatever it is. They'll do that. And that's, that's it. Like, I don't, who else could you even put in there? Because he's, Connor shouldn't fight anyone good. So you have to let him fight someone who sucks, like Michael Chandler. And he probably still won't even win that fight, frankly, but it will be compelling. And it'll get people like BC to tune in. Okay. Uh, seems like Michael, that's a bad answer.

Yeah, I got Michael Chandler's... All the Jed Goodwill just spilled all over us here at the end of the show. This is great. Yep. He was, yep, he was setting the table for disaster. So BC, is it Chandler? Is it, is it Habib? I mean, it could be.

There's a number of names. We can think outside the box here. So, one minute on the clock. I mean, if we didn't already know that Islam's fighting Volkanowski next, I could have made the Islam argument to try to get Habib involved, but he's not. Jed picked the worst possible option for the UFC in Chandler. Obviously, that fight would be badass and be incredible to watch,

but Conner has a great chance to get knocked out in that fight. So if you're the UFC, I think you still have to do some level of protection to him in the matchmaking unless somebody's a big enough star where it makes the gamble worth it. If it's Jorge Mazvedal, who again just tweeted out, whether he's talking about Gilbert's tweet or Connors, that there's big news coming, it may just scratch all the boxes. Conner's probably going to lose that fight, but it may scratch all the boxes.

It also could get Connor a baby face in the eyes of the fans again, potentially, from that standpoint, which I think does lead to better sales and more dollars, even though Connor is largely a villain, a lot of the times and lives in that polarizing center. But those two aren't even the best answers, though, altogether. Neither is Tony Ferguson, which is probably the best version of the Daniel, Donald Soroni fight, if they wanted to do it again. I don't think Connor versus Tony really works from a tough sell standpoint, but you're telling me, tough is going to be involved,

and you want to vote Connor in a big fight that can do monster ratings, but also give him a big chance to win and also potentially present him as a legitimate baby face again. Guys wake up, it's Patty Pimbley. That's the freaking fight to make. He's an absolute villain right now in a lot of people's eyes as this failed bust. He's the perfect villain from the standpoint of trash talking

and the back and forth they're going to have. And there's a Spider-Man meme again to use that reference of those two kind of having the same cornball game, you know, in terms of shtick after one another. This is a fight that's very winnable for Connor, could completely put him over. I don't think it would destroy Patty, who there's already questions about his top end.

If UFC, UFC has made a lot, especially pre-ESPN deal, a lot of shrewd moves matchmaking. We love to bring up, I love to bring up the bad ones, Hendo Bizpink too, right? Even though it was actually a fun fight to watch.

But you get my point. This is old-school promoting. If they did Connor versus Patty next, in a pay-per-view main event in Europe. And, oh, by the way, do a ultimate fighter season with that, everybody wins in that scenario. Everybody does. That's old-school promoting, but they don't need to promote pay-per-views like that anymore

because of the ESPN deal, as we know. So, you know, things have changed a bit. I just want to say. I thought you were going to do it, BC. I want to thank you, BC, because I didn't think it was possible to change time, but that was the longest minute in the history of minutes. And I appreciate that. Jed, I will give you an extra 30 seconds to rebut.

I saw your face. I don't know if that was a face of. I thought you were going to do it, BC. I was so ready to be like, give him, give him all of the votes. I thought you were going to say the one that we wanted. Sure, the Patty, like, that's not a terrible idea. But I think my mind will explode if those two dudes have to be on a television screen that I may or may not be forced to watch.

if you want to get you talked about old school promotion baby there there's one out there's a there's a rivalry that that transcends the courtrooms and a good old fashioned bad blood former best friends bring back artem lobov baby let's go the goat how about he has to fight danis and lobobb on the same night all right how about I will tell you right now, the UFC makes Artem Lobov an opposing coach with Conn Regger. I will watch every episode of Tough and I will say nothing bad about that program ever again. It would be incredible content. Wow. So I hope these votes are coming in. By the way. None of us said Nate Diaz. Yeah, that's a good one. That'd be a good one. But he just laughed. I don't know if you'd come right back. Maybe if they did like year and a half from now, some potential, but I don't think it would happen that quickly.

So, uh, all right. Well, so the votes are tabulating. Some other news and notes. We were going to maybe talk about Tyson Fury, Francine Gano, that rivalry sort of heating back up, if you want to even call it that. Uh, Dan Hooker versus Jalen Turner, UFC 285 on March 4th. That is a, that's a big ass fight. And Dan Hooker is just such a G for taking that one, because that's probably not going to go great for him or maybe it will. I don't know. They're going to really bad for him. Looks like April 8th. It's not done yet, despite some calling it fake news.

It ain't fake news, folks. Al Jermaine Sterling, Henry Sohudo being targeted for UFC 287. Obviously, some hurdles to leap over in terms of Sterling's bicep injury and the recovery. But that is what the UFC wants, ladies and gentlemen, per multiple sources with knowledge of the plans. So those are some other news and notes. So I'm just trying to fill time because I can't give any sort of broadcast schedule for us because there's no UFC card this weekend. Bellator card this weekend. And if this is next week, I could fill that time

while the votes come in with that stuff. So, Casey, let's bring you in. Do we have enough votes? Are we good to go? Can we announce a winner? We are good to go. Okay. Who wins?

First off, spectacular final 60-minute, what? It felt like 60-minute. 60-second closing round. I don't know. why I have a clock up there. But, um, all right.

Unnecessary. All right. Your winner today with 58% of the votes is and still undefeated Mr. Brian Campbell. B.C. gets it done. Another award. Another award. Another trophy, another championship.

I don't even know. We have like 87 champions of the B.C. out right now without an undisputed one. But, uh, B.C. making his case, the Jamal Hill of Between the Links. Any final thoughts? You get 30 seconds to say whatever you want. You can plug your stuff, whatever you

want. I'd like to dance on Jed's grave here, but, you know, out of respect for that guy, I had earned this one. I had to fight for it. I didn't think it was, you know, necessarily coming my way at certain points in here. But, you know, I come from an award-winning show, so if you watch Morning Combat, you know

anything's possible like this, right? Go, as you well said. But shout out to Jed. He put up a good defense. in return, but, you know, us MK boys are a little bit different, though, okay? I mean, can you get Luke Thomas on this show? I don't know. He's largely angry all the time, but, you know, that, talk about a pay-per-view, Meshoe versus Thomas.

I'm here for that one, okay? Would be the angriest VETL of all time. Yep, yep. This is, I mean, that, you know, if I can use my time to promote that, there you go right there. Well done. Jed, any final words? I mean, look, this is, this is a great battle.

I always love competing against Brian since he didn't promote his own stuff really I will promote them saying I am currently listening to the resume review of Fador-a-Millionanko so check that out from the Morning Combat Squad

and keep it tuned here because we are going to have a damn they were good on Fador-Million Anko coming out I think Monday so in anticipation of his final fight the goat is hanging them up finally all right fighting ryan bader and what a moment that could be fader riding off into the sunset is the heavyweight champion of the world

God, that would be the best. So everybody, I guess enjoy your weekends off from major MMA. You get the Royal Rumble on Saturday. So that should be a lot of fun. So if you enjoy that kind of thing, then you can enjoy that. Casey, you can hit the music. We are done. We have made it through.

BC's one minute has come to an end. And we're happy you were able to join us for the first competitive edition of BTL of 23. So thank you for watching for Casey on the ones and twos. Shout out to BC for Jed. I am Mike Heck back here next week on between the. links. Good night, everybody. It has been between the links and an MMA fighting production.

I'm Mr. Lin. Thank you for watching. Hit the subscribe button. You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Hi, I'm Sophia Loper Carroll, host of the Before the Chorus podcast. We dive into the life experiences behind the music we love. Artists of all genres are welcome. And I've been joined by some pretty amazing folks, like glass animals. I guess that was the idea.

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