MMA Fighting - BTL | JDM vs. Islam Makhachev, UFC 322 Excitement Levels, More

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

The vast majority of the fan base couldn't be more ready to see a UFC event with very high stakes, meaning, and excitement, as UFC 322 is finally here and it couldn't be here fast enough. How does the UFC's return to Madison Square Garden compare to other events before it? On a special, all-new Tuesday edition of Between the Links, the panel talks Saturday's UFC 322 event, the headliner between Jack Della Maddalena and Islam Makhachev, the rest of the big welterweight matchups on Saturday, and how the division could unfold based on who leaves MSG with the title. Additionally, topics may include Francis Ngannou answering questions about a potential fight with Jon Jones at the White House while being a PFL fighters, other news and notes going on in the MMA space, and much more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they answer your questions all show long to get you ready for UFC 322. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for this show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? Introducing Odu, it's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-Doo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have...

have made the switch. So why not you? Try Odu for free at Odu.com. That's ODOO.com. Support for this show comes from Volkswagen. As the U.S. gets ready to host soccer's biggest moment on a worldwide stage, Volkswagen is helping people discover new turfs and new ways to play the beautiful game right here in the U.S. From deaf and power wheelchair soccer to beach and futsal, Volkswagen is actively supporting all the communities and teams within the U.S. soccer ecosystem. They're supporting talent from across the U.S. soccer extended national teams and are focused on helping to give these less widely known forms of soccer a platform moving forward. From the pitch to the sand and everything in between, welcome to our turf.

Live from M.M.A. Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, Mike Peck! The iconic voice of Esther Lynn, welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Tuesday to us all. We are back a couple days early. I did tell you this is going to happen. A lot going on. Basically living in two different states right now. So I'm currently in Massachusetts. I've got to go back to South Carolina.

Making that drive tomorrow night into Thursday. So we're doing this show a little bit earlier. And you know what? So what? It's UFC 322 fight week. We are excited. We're ready to talk about this stuff right now. We got media day tomorrow.

We got the press conference. Why not? Just get going with the UFC 32 talk. because this week could not come soon enough. We as fans, all of us here in this room, right now, here in this stream, who listen and come to all of these shows, who watch every single card on Saturday, events like this, this is why we remain fans.

This is why we put up with the crappy Apex cards to get to cards like this, and I could not be more excited. It's only Tuesday, and I'm ready to jump through a freaking wall. Joining me to discuss UFC 322, the comings and goings, in the world of m m a to answer all of your questions and much more mr no gray area the hot take kid the climber of all climbers the one and only jed bushoe from m a fighting dot com and and jed some tell me that mafining.com is a is a pretty darn good website it depends you know i i think it is you may be the lone one fan and furious that we cover other aspects of combat sports and not

one championship, which is only nominally an MMA organization anymore. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go check out the same line. I know you're talking about. That was for the people, not for you, Michael. Good. I am, I literally just got home from the gym. New PR on bench. So, you know, ready, ready to rock, ready to get after it here. And then I will spend the rest of the day since I'm off.

Turning out the lights, sitting in a dark room and reflecting on why I'm a bad journalist because we wrote a story about Andre Rolovsky knocking a dude out. I'm sorry, former UFC heavyweight champion, Andre Rolovsky. The goat in some people's eyes, Jed. Not my eyes, but maybe in yours and some others. The goat, Andrea Rolovsky. Look, it happens. We are not for everybody.

There are some certain people within this space who are upset. with me too. And that's okay. That's okay. I got a text message last night that I thought was pretty funny because of this show, if we're being honest. So we'll leave it at that. But this is all about you guys. This is your show, your questions. Let's get after it. Let's get here. I watched Josh Hokit talked with Ariel yesterday. Actually seemed like an okay duty. Honestly surprised me. I thought he'd keep his post about interview character. I mean, I've interviewed him before. Again, the great E. Casey Liden saw that interview.

And even he was surprised at the character of Josh Okin. I mean, it's essentially the same interview I did for the most part, where it's like a lot of the stuff about the NFL and how he got here and things of that nature. MMA is more, I guess, for him politically and from a like individualistic place. and yeah didn't want to be a pfl world champion i love that line he said that to be a few months back before his last lFA fight no one goes to bed and dreams to be a pfl world champion everybody wants to be a ufc world champion uh i love that line yeah but as i've said on the show many times like josh is a really like he's a deep good dude like you converse with him like it's a pretty normal conversation and then the lights turn on and the sunglasses

passes go on and the American bandana goes on and it's a it's a different thing but yeah Josh is fine but I don't know did you watch that interview I didn't um I have you know I maybe he said a lot of great stuff I'll watch the stuff that I'm forced to watch right like he's post fight interviews and that's fine yeah I have no interest in intentionally seeking out his content from the contender series thing and if you like that I'm not here to judge on anyone who that's their dude

cool man but it's not for me the one clip I saw was just like yeah this this guy's not for me and so I you know there are plenty of fighters in the sport that aren't for me and that that's how I choose

to engage with him if somebody was like hey we need to write up what he said I'll be like okay it's like I don't hate the dude or whatever But, you know, the older you get, Mike, the more I come to the inevitable conclusion that sometimes you just got to be like, not for me and I'll do something else. And that's okay, you know, not trashing the dude. He seems like he might have some staying power. And, you know, we talked in the post show. Give him a lot of credit for that post fight speech.

I don't think it was amazing. You know, it was certainly derivative. But you know what it was? different. It was something. It gave people a reason to invest in him. It's the reason he went on aerial show in a lot of ways. So he's doing something right, but not everything that's done right has to be for everybody. And he is not for me. Fair enough. Scott, favorite MSG main card to rewatch. I get still thrown on 217 and joy from start to finish 205 and 268. Both have great moments, but start to finish 217 always delivers. So,

You know, Jed, once in a while, you hit the town, you hit the, you hit the bars, and maybe you come back and get yourself a pizza or something, you sit on the couch, and you start to eat away and soak up the booze. And you want to watch some fistfights. And today's agenda, today's thought processes, let's go rewatch a main card from Madison Square Garden and the Ultimate Fighting Championship. What's the go-to main card you're watching from MS. This is the easiest answer of all time.

It's 205, man. Like, it's the best MSG card. I think on paper this card could rival it. We'll see if it plays out. I think people think poorly of the co-main event because everybody hates a draw. Like, everybody hates a draw, right? But, like, the Woodley Thompson fight,

like the Woodley Wonderboy fight was a banger. That was the fight of the year, wasn't it? Yeah. I don't think it was fight of the year, but it was fight of the night. i'd have to remember what the hell fight of the year was and you could look it up 2016 i don't know a fight of the year i don't think it was fight of the year probably was on the list it was a really good fight of people there's just no way it's fight of the year because there's a draw and nobody

will ever people hate oh that was the same year as um condit condit luller too so there's no yeah that condit luller too is um or not kind of luller too also um yeah that was january second and so it was like all right well no one can have anymore but It was a really fun fight. You know, obviously the main event is the thing everybody remembers. It's iconic. It's a sensational performance, certainly, right? Like, it's the best performance of Connor's career, will be the best performance of his career.

And the Yawanna-Carolina fight was, like, pretty solid, too, you know? Like, it was mostly Yawanna running stuff. You get Yol-R-R-Ramero doing cool stuff. Yeah, it's 205 is the standard by which MSG cards are judged. Yeah, I'm actually, I love these conversations. We love to go back and look. Yeah, it would have been a tough year for Wonderboy, Condit won to win fight of the year. Obviously, Lawler Condit was the winner.

Connor McGregor Nate Diaz 2 from UFC 202 was in second place. Third place, a Hall of Fame fight, Jed. Tough to beat a Hall of Fame fight. Cub Swanson versus Dooh-Choi. Absolutely hilarious that that's the third, that that's in the Hall of Fame and the two fights above it or not. yeah uh number four holly home loses the women's band and way title to misha tate oh yeah terrific that fight that fight for sure too that fight frankly should i don't i got i'd have to go back and look at our judging i can't imagine i would have put that there that had to be two for me and then

yeah that fight is the most underrated that fight is uh is clearly better than cubs watson do hootroy and that's do her toy cubsonsons it's a like it's a fun fight uh home Tate is obviously much better than that. But I think Tate got sub of the year that year. And sometimes in award ceremonies, that is a factor. It's like, well, they're getting sub of the year. There's acknowledgement here. But yeah, for sure.

And number five was the first main event of 2026. Dominic Cruz versus T.J. Dilleshaw in Boston, Massachusetts. It was in the building for that one. Honorable mentions, the first honorable, yeah. First honorable mention was Woodley Wonderboy. from UFC 205, also Michael Bisbeganderson Silva, Yowana Goddalia 2, Neil Magny, Hector Lumbart.

Jake Matthews made the list, Jed, this year. Jake Matthews versus Johnny Case. I don't remember that fight at all. Your boy. Zero recollection of that fight whatsoever, but... 205 is great. If you have to rewatch any main card, it has to be UFC 290.

Great fights, funny moments, crazy upsets, truly an all-time card. is one of my favorite favorite events ever. What's $290? That was the International Fight Week card headlined by Volkovsky

and Yayae Rodriguez. That was really good. Yeah, that was really good cards. It's an excellent card. It was one of the, that we got Moreno pants on that card. I believe that was the DDP

It was. It was. Robert Whitaker. That was an amazing card. I remember how much we were hyping that one up on the, the way up and bc calling you all sorts of names yeah when you threw out your ddp's going to

beat whittaker take who last who left last plus i honestly like it took me a minute the thing that i remember most from that car it's not the main card it's robbie luller his his yeah right like that's that's the best thing that happened the whole card top to bottom was pretty pretty damn good yeah two 90 was a really good card yeah excellent excellent fight card uh jose of Jacqueline Cavalcanti after her win Saturday at her scrum said she wants to face Arrani Aldana next. Can we get a bonus mic check and thoughts on that callout? Fine call out, B minus. Who else you got a call out, really?

I would have liked to have seen her call at Juliana Pena. I literally think every woman in that division after a win should call it Giuliana Pena. Because one of you is going to get it. And it's just funny to see all of you from probably Julia Pena. So, yeah, it's fine. As, as the mic check segment is a thing that we continually workshop on air, what I've just realized right now is when, when the intro happens, like for the TikTok, there needs to be a sound drop that's who you're going to call, right?

Like, we got to do the Ghostbusters, who you're going to call interwoven there. We'll have to work on it, but there's something there. Yeah, there's definitely something there. Yeah, it's fine callout. Makes sense. Well, will she get it? Maybe? I don't know.

There's just nothing. If she wanted at A plus, you should have said, get rid of this division and let's do women's heavyweight. That would have been an A plus plus call-out. But that's not going to happen. So do, do. It makes sense that Ilya hasn't been offered a fight set into stone before Islam and JDM. Though how much do you think this result will play into Ilya's next fight if Islam wins or loses?

okay up sorry so master the inverse classic is is kind of putting out a scenario that the reason we have not gotten no chance the official ilia toporia fight announcement is because he's waiting to see what happens here no chance zero zero percent i got zero percent zero percent absolutely zero percent um ilia teporea will be the first big event of the paramount deal that it just will be now who that's against it's up up in the air patty or gaichi those are the names right maybe if it gets

delayed again and dan hooker beats arman maybe but he will be the first fight of the big paramount deal barring an injury in the next two weeks or something like that the reason i say so strongly at zero percent because they would shell viliatea toporia

until the summer because if they are i don't think they're going to do ilia versus makachev regardless. The only way I think that fight happens is if Islam loses on Saturday. But I won't say that's zero percent. But if they are going to do it, they're doing it at the White House. So they're not, they're not waiting to hold. They're not going to shell them for that long because the timeline fits. The timeline works super well if they're going to fight at the White House of all right, Ilya fights in January. You have said previously, and I stand firmly on

based with you. They are very soon this week. We will get the announcement of whatever the January pay-per-view is because frankly it is delayed right already and they're not going to have Ilya fight, you know, Islam in January. That's not going to happen.

So he will be fighting Patty or Gaichi in January. I'm like 98% on that. And the other thing that I did not believe you were correct Mike?

Hand up. I was wrong. Kamala Usman is challenging for the welterweight title next. If you can read any tea leaves, it's very clear at this point. I, perhaps I was being intentionally obtuse,

sticking my head in the sand, going full emu, but everybody associated even tangentially to this has mentioned Kamala Usman's name this week. Uh, Javier Mendez is the Mokachev, a B, like every, it's just, that's just happening. So, uh, that's silly and stupid. And I hate it in a lot of ways.

But if Islam wins, he's, he's fighting Kamaru next. One billion percent. I told you months. I told you this months ago that this is what they were planning. Yeah. And you're, you're 100% you're correct. I'm, I'm giving you your props here. Yeah. And if Islam loses, they're not. like you can do that that fight won't happen in january that fight still even with a loss if it's islam comes back to 155 which i'm frankly not certain he can do uh and has been pretty honest about like i can't really that would be really tough i could maybe make it work uh that's not going to happen in january so you can just get the ilia patty fight in january and then islam and ilia

can fight at the white house i think i i firmly believe it is a zero percenter that they are waiting for the outcome. They are not announcing it because one, this is the week, right? The timeline hasn't, it hasn't been necessary. They just announced 323, like a week ago or whatever. So 324 will get announced based on everything I've heard from anybody, it's I'll still think it's Ilya Patty. It could be Ilya Gae. That'll get announced soon. They're not waiting on this fight. Yeah. Yeah. Islam Usman's going to happen if Islam wins. It's going to make me so upset.

That's like one take. There's like a part of me for the watch party that just wants to bet JDM to, like, get the vibes back because Jadim, and I said this when we were doing question of the day a lot more consistently, if you're a welterweight or if you're a fan of any sort of like the next man up fights in any way, you need JDM to win on Saturday. He has to win. If he doesn't, Ousman's getting a title shot. He's jumping all of these guys that have worked there. I don't. I understand it for the Islam part of it.

Yeah. I get it for the Islam side of it. Because you, if you're Islam, like, and you have one fight left, that's a good one. That's a good legacy fight.

He's the second best, once weight of all time. He was once pound for pound. Like, I get it. It's really dumb. And it's one of the most egregious title fights I've ever seen. A guy who has only got one win in the last.

last four years against maybe the 10th best welterweight in the world like it's ridiculous but jdm jdm can flip this on his ears if he goes out there and just nukes islam and then calls out literally anybody else like if he calls up bradya morales like that goes away usman's out of the picture like he could do this all yeah but why would the microphone at his face that would be dumb and shit for him he should that's why like i think It, pretty clearly, Kamar Ushman has some authority, has been told something that he's in play at the minimum. Oh, yeah. That's why he's doing all the media around it.

He's doing the push. He's there. He can be like all of that. And if I'm JDM, why in God's name when I call out the winner of Michael Morales, Sean Brady, if I beat Islam? That would be pro. That would deserve the worst Mike check of all time if he does that. Why? Because that's career suicide.

Like, he can beat either of them. Who gives a shit? He will beat old man Ushman, who is, you know, they are given the full, the honest to God, the thing that really sent me over was Dana White just like stupidly calling Kamar Ustman the greatest wealth rate of all time, which is like a take that was trying to get traction and he got his head knock off and everybody was like, oh, that was very stupid of us. And now we've just we've brought it back up explicitly because they, They're going to pitch him.

He's going to be a, he's going to contend. And he's going to, I straight up think he's the next dude, which is insane. I want to be super clear. That's bad. We shouldn't do this. But it's going to happen. And if I'm Jack, I am absolutely trying to fight that old dude with a big name that Dana White is telling the millions of people is the greatest of all time, as opposed to fighting

Sean Brady, who is, nobody knows, has the most generic name, probably in America. He has the most You went to school with Sean Brady I was to school with a Sean Brady Everybody has It's the most generic name of all time And nobody knows him That's not a critique on him as a fighter

He's an incredible fighter But outside of him Literally power bombing Michael Morales Through the cage on Saturday A vast majority of the fan base Doesn't know or care about him So calling him out would be insane When you have a teed up

Kamaru Usman title fight Running behind you Because if he beats Islam He's absolutely beating Kamar Ustman at this stage of his career. Oh, he's beating him anyways. I mean, yes. Well, I could be convinced if he lost Islam that Jack versus Kamaro was like competitive because if it happens, it's because he just gets tackled a bunch.

But if he stuffs all Islam's takedowns like, well, Camaro can't do anything, he's going to die. Like, if he wins on Saturday and calls out Michael Morales or Sean Brady or Ian Machado, Gary like iamachado gary and shavka would be a little better than the shan brady morales winner at least yeah i'mg has a fight coming up so that yeah and at least those dudes like shop would be some name to them but he should call out kamaru who will be caged side like yeah kamar's just getting it which is not what i thought i'd be saying on saturday when we were talking about it's like that that's ridiculous and now it's like oh no it's very clear they want Kamar Uspin to be the next title challenger.

Got it. It's crazy. But the reason that everyone's putting this out there is that, oh, this is by far the biggest fight. There are even people saying, I think Uspin said it in an interview that's got dropped up tomorrow, that outside of like John Jones, Alex Pereira and Connor McGregor's return, this is the biggest fight the UFC can make. And I was just like, what are we talking about here?

Like I understand that Kamaru is, like people know who Kamaru is. But for like the newer generational fan base, they've only seen him fight one time. And it was a fight no one will rewatch. It was a dominant win over Joaquin Buckley. Don't get me wrong. Like this, he did what he needs to do. He needed to go out and win and win convincingly. And he did that.

He opened up a whole, he opened up so many eyeballs about, I guess, the limitations that Joaquin Buckley has as a fighter. Very explosive, very fun. But there are certain things that he is. not spectacular at and i think who's been sort of opened up those doors a little bit but at the end of the day it's just a ridiculous title shot it's just a ridiculous title fight it doesn't make any sense to me so uh jet has lost power so he will be back at a moment uh and we will bring him back when that happens support for this show comes from odoo running a business is hard enough

so why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. Introducing O-DU. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one fully integrated platform that makes your work easier, CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, and more. And the best part, O-DU replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you? Try O-D-O-4-3 at O-D-O-D-com. That's O-D-O-O-O-O-O-com. support for this show comes from the audible original the downloaded two ghosts in the machine the earth only has a few days left roscow cadulian and the rest of the phoenix colony

have to re-upload their minds into the quantum computer but a new threat has arisen that could destroy their stored consciousness forever listen to oscar winner brenden fraser reprise his role as roscow cadulian In this follow-up to the Audible original blockbuster, The Downloaded, it's a thought-provoking sci-fi journey where identity, memory, and morality collide. Robert J. Sawyer does it again with this much-anticipated sequel that leaves you asking, What are you willing to lose to save the ones you love? The Downloaded 2. Ghosts in the Machine. Available now, only from Audible.

Uh, Spencer, boys, nice surprise to see you this fine Tuesday morning. Is Val Zhang a top five women's fight of all time? Uh, fight besides Maine and Co-Maine you're most excited for. Uh, I think I'll let Jed give his take on this because it's, it's pretty accurate. I don't want to steal a thunder. Uh, but just to answer that, is it a top five women's fight of all time? You bet your ass it is. Uh, if you said to me, is it a top three women's fight of all time?

I would say yes. I would say yes. And then as far as which non-main or co-main am I excited for? I mean, there's so many good ones, but sort of like under the radar, I'm kind of looking at the Blanchefield-Cortez fight in a lot of ways.

I am very fascinated by that fight because Blanchefield, as good as she is, she is so far away from a title fight it's pretty wild how far away from a title fight she actually is come back jett is back hi jedd my power went out sorry everybody uh so spencer asks yeah so i was saying uh it was his hot take it was his ozman take uh knock the power out in alana uh i'll get It's your... Wuzman did not knock out Joaquin Buckley.

He sure didn't. He sure didn't. Fight beside... What's a 322 fight besides the main and co-main that you are most excited for? I was saying, not that I'm like excited for it per se, but I am intrigued by mostly the fallout

of Aaron Blanchfield versus Tracy Cortez, too. Very much looking forward to that because I think Blanchfield, if she ever wants to fight for a UFC belt, she cannot lose another fight. She's kind of in that boat right now. and this division is picking up a little more steam

with some of the names they have and if Cortez wins they're going to shoot her as quickly as possible to a title fight. She may have to fight again. She probably will have to fight again but Blanchfield's going to have to win

at least two, maybe three before she's getting a title fight. So I am intrigued by that to see if like the right can be wronged because I thought Blanchfield won their first fight. Your thoughts on non-main or co-main fight you're most excited for

And then on top of that is Valentina Shufchenko versus Zhang Wei Li, a top five women's fight of all time? First, I disagree with your take. I think Blanchfield certainly needs to win this if she wants to fight for her belt soon. She's still 26. If she loses, I think she can still get there. It would be a setback in a major way, but like she's still really young. And we've seen over the past few years, it's not like the women's divisions are like rapidly facing turnover. that much so um but it is a very important fight for her she wants to be fighting for a belt

next year right and that should be her goal um this it is so tough to pick my favorite non-title fight this weekend um i i think sean brady michael morales can be awesome i am super high on michael morales i think michael morales will absolutely fight for a belt one day also 26 years old I think it's more likely than not that Michael Morales is a future champion. Now, that does not mean he is a future champion in the next two years, right? He's still very young. But of that whole crop of Ima Chado Garry and Shavkat and this sort of, these emerging contenders at 170, kind of think he has the best chance to get the belt because he's so young and he's so talented.

I have a bet on Michael Morales. I won't be shocked if Sean Brady wins this fight but I I'm very intrigued by that fight Leon Edwards you know I have questions about that fight I think Darius Benoit Sondini

is guaranteed to be the most fun fight on the entire car there's just no chance because it has BSD being involved in a fight means that fight's fun and Benio Darius is sneaky kind of that dude as well that man will engage in a brawl real fast but

I said this on No Betts Bard. We recorded last night. It'll drop in the morning. Nobody's going to pick this. I wrote about it this week. I love Malcolm Wellmaker, Cody Haddon. I love that fight. I love that fight so much.

I'm sad about that fight because originally Malcolm Wellmaker on my fantasy roster was going to face Sir Hay City, which was a setup fight and would have gotten me so many points. And now this is a much more difficult. fight against a dude who was on the same season of contender series that I thought was a better prospect and still kind of do think is a better prospect than Wellmaker, but Wellmaker has been so good. And this is this is the fight, right? Like they are they were giving him sorry City as a setup to be like, okay, blow this dude up and then we'll start pushing. Now it's a bit different, but it's still like, hey man, this is now a tough fight. Show us something. And

we're going to strap the rockets to you. We're going to give you an opportunity to climb quickly, which they need to do with him because he is older. It's very young in fight years, but he's already in his 30s. There's not a huge amount of window for him. So they're going to have to put the boots on him quick. And this is an opportunity.

I love that fight so much. I'm so excited about that fight. I don't imagine anyone else will share that. Or like very few people will share that opinion. But it's, I'm looking forward to it. as much as any of the non-title fights this weekend. Yeah, so big.

Like we're, we, I love when we get fights that will like literally give us like the outlook of the entire future of a certain individual fighter. And, and don't get me wrong, Malcolm Wellmaker is in a great spot. He is either going to be the highlight real dude that nukes the Chris Mutinios of the world for the rest of his career or if he goes out there and just obliterates Cody Haddon, which would be the best win. his career by a country bazillion miles

they got something with him and if he does if he goes out there and finishes Cody Haddon his next fight needs to be against like a top 10 guy like we cannot mess around here I would throw him in there with Cheeto Vera if he wins his if he wins this fight

like just go jump him over everybody throw him in there with Amon's a hobby next like honestly just go and if he wins two more fights give him a title shot like push this dude as fast as you can but he's got a really difficult test ahead of him and again if he loses it's not a big deal he'll be a very popular fighter who just gets highlight real knockouts it will be all over the opening baba o'rilly package for years to come and that's fine

that is a great place to be if you're a malcolm wellmaker you're still must see tv may not win a title but that's fine either way i think he's in a great spot but if he wins this fight on Saturday. Go. It's are you Terrence McKinney or are you Carlos Prattis? Love that. That's what this fight is. It's like, are you, okay, are you kind of an older dude who has just been lighten the world on fire?

And okay, we'll just move you in and we'll see how far we can push you how quickly we can do so. And abandon weight that you can do that pretty well, frankly. People are going to hate this. It's a corollary to what I believe is one of my strongest takes in recent months that people hate.

the most. Amid's a hobby isn't good. And look where they got him. Because you can kind of do that at Bannonweight right now because there's like a mix of old dudes or flawed fighters who are still sort of holding higher numbers. The top top is a murder as row. Like it's tough to chew through that sort of top five category. But that middle section, you got, you know, guys like Cheeto Vero, who has a gaudy ranking

and can be good, but also can just not. fist fight a dude randomly you know you have i don't know it's henry sudo has in the tank anymore because he hasn't won a fight in like eight years uh you know rob font keeps sort of holding the gate but is also those last legs you can kind of bounce a dude up very quickly through this mix as opposed to lightweight where it's like it doesn't matter who you put them against it's just going to be an impossible fight and you got to put together four of those to get into the top And so we get to find out where Wellmaker is. And if not, you know, I don't think Cody Haddon, if he wins this fight on Saturday,

we'll come out of it getting the same sort of push Wellmaker would. No. But if he wins this fight, I'll be like, yeah, that's one of the better prospects of 135 right now. Like, that's a dude who he's not going to get the boots put to him. And here we go. Rocket strapped. Amon's a hobby. Here we come.

But the UFC will know, okay, this is a guy we can develop. We can build to be a legitimate. top 10 sort of fighter uh and so i i love this fight i think the fight will just be fun be high level mixed martial arts and i'm all about it yeah hadn't wins they he goes to sydney and he fights chris gutieris and like the feature prelim that's a damn good place to be be a huge win for him take a little bit of that hype yeah and then val jang where do you rank this i i didn't want to take take take i said i said it's definitely top five for me but i'm I'm going to let you take the floor on what you think of Valjean.

If you don't have this as top five, you don't know ball. Like that's technically that's a subjective opinion. It's one of those things where like I use this now gel at times. It's when I learned in law school, right? Where it's, um, you know, saying Shaq is tall is technically subjective because like tall is relative. But if I say the Shaq's tall and you're like tall compared to what? But you're just kind of, you're, you're being intentionally obtuse and it's, it's not a realistic, like, that's not a real thing to be like, actually, Shaq's not tall if you're a redwood tree.

If you don't think this is one of the five best women's fights of all time, you do not know mixed martial arts. You are being intentionally, like, contrarian. that is a fell like i think that's as close to a fact as a subjective thing can be i believe this to be the greatest women's fight of all time i don't know if i'm the first person on this corner but i'm one of the first people on this corner and i believe this to be the greatest on paper women's fight of all time now will it play out i don't know maybe it will maybe it won't you know maybe we'll get uh jang yawanna fight maybe it sucks but on paper, I think, Mike, I would ask you, but I think if you asked most people, what is the greatest

women's fight of all time, not in cage, but like historically, you know, the most significant, etc. I think most people would go to Amanda Nunes, Chris Cyborg, and that makes a lot of sense, right? Like that, aside from being, ultimately being, I think, the fight that more than anything is like, oh, that's why Amanda Nunes is the women's goat or whatever. She, obliterated Chris Cyborg, but even in the lead-up to that fight, right? Like, we were, that was, that was a big, big thing to happen. Two very small notes on that. One, women's featherweight is a garbage division and kind of a fake one.

Chris Cyborg had been undefeated for forever. Is it all-time great? Like, I'm not saying that part of it's not true, but also she lorded over a division that kind of doesn't exist and functional. is the same as bantam weight in many respects and two it's Amanda wasn't Amanda at that point right like Amanda was great and people knew that Amanda was something but Amanda had only had two title defenses under her belt I think at that point I think she'd had the Rousey and the Shevchenko title defenses right and so she wasn't Amanda Nunes this is the fight that got her to be Amanda Nunes

Conversely, Valentina Shepchenko is, in my opinion, I won't argue this point because nobody will believe it, and that's okay. In my opinion, Valentina Shepchenko is the greatest female fighter of all time. And Zhang Wai Li is the greatest straw weight of all time. I think both of those are very open to debate. I'm not saying that those are facts. Those are my opinions. But, you know, we're talking about at worst two of the five best female fighters who have ever walked to the face of the earth in their relative primes. matching up um you know as the leaders of the two best weight classes in the in the sport i don't

there's nothing that's comparable to that in my mind i i think it's the greatest female fight of all time on paper it's it's super good and i i i don't think you're wrong and i think there's i don't think any could really say you're wrong because you can certainly make an argument for it i think as far as like as far as like fights i'm excited about and just like overall builds like i wish there was a little more heat to this one. And I get, and I get why there isn't. It's, it's JDM Islam. It's Islam is way more popular and people gave him credit for and have been giving

him credit for. So that's obviously going to steal the headlines. But this fight is so good. Like, I'm looking more forward to this fight than I am the main event. And I love the main event too, but I really like this fight. And the unfortunate thing is I actually think Zhang Wei is just going to beat the brakes on a valentina she's like she's just going to beat her and i don't think this fight is all that competitive either like maybe that's just a terrible read on my part but just going back and

rewatching a bunch of fights over the last few days i think jang has a really good chance to just go in there and thump her but we'll see we've seen her lay a couple of eggs too i'll be astonished if this fight i i whoever wins you could convince me either woman is going to win this fight. I do not believe, like, the outcome that would shock me the most is if it was one-way traffic either way. I just, this fight feels incredibly nip-tuck, super close, one on the margins, maybe legitimately just one, because in the fifth round, Valentina spins and Jen grabs the back or something like that, like just the smallest of margins might decide that, we'll decide this one in my opinion um and it's why like i have gotten progressively more excited as

the build to this like when it was first announced i was like yeah there's nothing else to do it was sort of like okay there's no real other things to do here and as i've thought about it i'm like yeah i wish shevchenko were a little younger it's not like shang super young you know like she's one year younger she has a lot less mileage shevchenko's been fighting for 20 years at this point yeah um it's a lot like that's so many fights that she has um and i i think certainly i do not believe the best chefchenko we've ever seen will be on saturday night i probably don't think we're going to get the best jang we've ever seen but that's at least still in play to me that she could still be have not started to decline

whereas i think chikchenko unambiguously is declining a little bit but that also just sort of makes it even more competitive to me is like okay i think the best chvchenko pretty easy easily walks over the best jang but if she's dropped a little bit like the stakes here if jang wins this fight she will have such an interesting case for goat status because she clearly lost two rows twice and not like early in her career like at the peak of her powers functionally and you know at the start of the peak of her powers and so it it becomes fascinating sort of where you put her in that and then like honestly it would be silly I would immediately be like, hey, have a fight Kayla.

Let's just get weird with it, you know? Like, who cares? And so, like, I don't think that would happen, but it would be a fun thing to do. I think the outcomes here are interesting. And I think this is the most, to me, this is, I said, it's the most significant female fight that's ever been booked. I do not believe it will be that, I think it'll be tense. I don't think it'll be fun.

I do not anticipate us getting a, you know, Zhang, young jaychik style all-time classic but it's so meaningful like it's so meaningful to the sport in a way that is like once in a generation we do not and nobody's talking about it like that because it's women's mma and both of them have been around forever but like when did jang win the belt uh msg against carlos spars uh 2022 November 22 I believe that is correct so she has she has reclaimed the belt in 22 she has been a champion of this weight class for three years shevchenko obviously recent fairly recently reclaimed the belt but has functionally been the champion of this weight class for almost a decade right like she won the title in 2018 so you know she did lose it but she got it

back and has since defended it that doesn't like well i don't know what the what's the comp when when in history have we seen two champions of this long reign to be battling each other i know technically jang's not the champion anymore but like you know bj had like one title defense when he went up to fight um gsp right because they already had the backstory he was already a welterweight champion et cetera, et cetera. Connor famously had never, like did not really rain. He won the featherwood belt

and then won the lightweight belt. I get, you know, Ilya earlier this year had one title defense. Like this is epic shit. And I am here for it. Like the one thing I think about is like, man, if Val didn't lose to Grasso

at UFC 285, like we could have got this fight. in 2022 you know what I mean about this two years ago maybe it would have been different I think ultimately

that is better but in 2023 I'm less I'm much more interested in this fight now after seeing what Zhang has done in her past two efforts right?

No that makes sense where in 2023 I'd have been like okay Val's just gonna kill her like yeah I've seen Val fight a very strong straw weight And it was probably the best performance of her career running over Jessica Traj.

And I've, and at that point, I've been like, I've also seen Zhang get tackled by the infinites wrestler Rosemah Eunice, you know. Whereas now I'm like, she just dummy Tatiana. I think I'm more into this fight, interested in the outcomes of this fight now than I would have been then. But I, there is certainly a piece of it that it's a, it feels bigger. back then right yeah i predict we'll have a watch party clip from that fight one way or the other almost certainly uh chase does gaichi actually retire if he doesn't get a title shot the answer to retirement questions is always no so i'll go with no i'm going to say yes actually i'm going to say yes and even if he

does get a title shot I think he retires after that fight win or lose I think he's he's so into golf right now like he's he's doing a lot of golf content I think he's this is the most fun I've ever seen Justin Gitchie have in a public setting like normally he's just like yeah I love fighting and he's delivered some bangers and he looks like he's having a great time when he's actually like hitting people but yeah like the golf content he's putting out like I think I think this is where his future is and I think he sees that himself and I think he's got such a name that he can get sponsors and make some good money off of it. So I think he's fine walking away.

I don't know what, like, if he doesn't get a title, like, what keeps him here? Like, what is, what does he want? What would he want to do that, like, gets him back in the cage when he could just go play golf with his buddies and make money doing that? Dan Hooker. Yeah, maybe. If Hooker beats Sarukian, then Hooker's going to fight Holloway. Maybe.

Or Elvara. I think, no, because Holloway is fighting Oliveira. Yeah, it's a BMF title fight if he wins that fight. Why would he fight Gagey? Because Dan Hooker doesn't really care about that sort of thing. I think he care about the BMF out. Yeah, but I think the sales pitch is, okay, we're giving it to Patty, but Dan Hooker just beat Armand. Ilya needs a new title defender or defense after he beats Patty.

You and Hooker fight for it. You were supposed to functionally fight for it previously. That got upended. Title Eliminator. No doubt about it. An on paper title Eliminator will come out and say, this is for a lightweight title fight. I think that would get him in. But that's also dependent on Hooker winning.

And I don't suspect he's going to. Yeah, that's a tough one for him. It's a tough one for him. I can see it. My default answer is just always that retirements aren't real in the sport. So never believe in them. Habeeb is the only one who's retirement I believed in at the time. And that was for an incredibly different and specific reason.

So if something like that happens, absolutely believe in the retirement. Outside of personal tragedy, they're always going to fight again. They're always going to fight again. Yeah. I mean, it's just a whole new world now. Like, Gachi gets to do what he truly loves and make money off of it. So I mean, like, I don't know if it's a whole new world, man. It's fighters are fighting.

they're they're crazy people maybe and it's hard it's i mean the history of boxing much less they they it's hard hard they don't walk away they never walk away um i would love to see gaiti retire i'd be sad about it because he is one of my favorite fighters of all time i think he is at absolute bare minimum the second most exciting fighter to literally ever step into a cage uh and so the sport will be less with his absence but i you know i would also like him to lead a happy, healthy life and not sacrifice his well-being for my enjoyment that much longer.

So if you walked away, I would support it. I just, I'll believe when I see it. Something to certainly keep an eye on, ladies and gentlemen. This is for you, Jed, super chap from Hugo. Do you believe in the Verstappen

comeback? Nah, he done. This week and killed him. It is a testament to how great Max is that he has taken a car that I think I think the Red Bull is better than people are giving credit for it's had super low points this season I'm not saying that and he has dragged it up in a way that is he's the best car driver in the world like I don't think that's really disputable but this weekend sort of turfed his chances he's like 50 points back with four races in the sprint to go it's like it is mathematically possible for him to overtake Lando at this point it's unlikely he he basically can't finish lower than second and he needs a DNF from Lando in one of these possible unlikely especially Lando knows it and so Lando can just at this point Lando knows that if he finishes literally second place in every remaining race he wins and so he McLaren's probably going to use Piastri to play defense because Piastri has completely lost the

plot like technically piastri second in points that max is going to surpass piastri i believe that but i don't think he can close the gap on lando but this is honestly his most impressive racing season that i've ever seen from him like i think this season is significantly more impressive than any of his actual championship wins and the sort of like kind of bs 21 and 21 F1, boys. It's a terrific sport. Nothing quite makes a holiday gathering pop like turning on the music. And if you're looking to set the mood, you should check out Sonos. With Sonos, movie nights feel bigger and more cinematic.

While holiday parties come to life with music that flows from room to room, it's the kind of sound that makes a house feel warm and connected during the season. Want studio quality sound at home? Explore Sonos speakers, soundbars, and more. sonos.com and discover how easy it is to build your own whole home audio system. With Instacard, you get groceries that over-deliver so you can over-share your preferences. Want russet potatoes with no brown spots? You got it. Want turnips that look light but feel heavy? Easy. Want honey crisp apples that are firm green and definitely not Macintosh like last

year when you lost the fall bake-off to perfect Penelope Johnson? Okay, a bit T.M. but we're here for it. So download the app today and get zero delivery fees on your first three orders. Instacart, groceries that over deliver. Service fees exclusions and terms apply.

Lazy vet. M-A fighting reported Referev Dean gave an interview to the Believe you B-Pod where he said the new rule change is to enforce the existing rules. I love this. Thank you, lazy.

I hope that's actually like the words used. Oh, Jed. I'm going to pull it up right now. I haven't seen. I've been off all day. I saw the Herb being gave some sort of thing. So your laughing reaction right there is exactly how I sounded sitting on the couch listening to this interview. Let me pull up.

I love that so much. So here's what he said. So he was asked, Herb was on Believe You B, and he was asked, he was asked about, hey, after the Asmodal thing, you guys said that you're to have a meeting about rules and eyepokes and stuff. And Herb's like, yeah, we had it. And this is what he said. Quote, so far, what we're talking about is we've made rules. So we made a rule.

It's a foul to extend the fingers towards the eyes. Now, mind you, when Herb Dean says, so we made a rule, it's a foul to extend the fingers towards the eyes. Paul Felder is literally on the screen. after he says a sentence and he claps yeah good job and here's the next sentence

herb dean says that's the rule we've already had in place so that rule has been there the rule's been there for years listen to this so that rule has been there but we haven't been enforcing it so we're going to move forward

on that I think people would not have been used to seeing someone get a point taken because most of the time when we take a point it's more of a reactive to the damaging and the unbalancing of the fight that's been done by a foul and that's the only way we could think to balance it

but this right here is a dangerous foul and somebody is going to keep doing a dangerous action we should start taking points by them doing that action before it actually happens to hurt somebody the other thing about MMA is I mean we have a one point sport the majority of three round fights what's the score 29 28 so if you take one point you've taken a majority of wins and turn it into a draw but we're going to have to do something so that's one of the

things we thought about that we're going to be doing that's something that's going to happen so it so a rule that was already in place and has been for years what they have discussed is they are now going to enforce that rule that has been at play for years and years and years but actually start enforcing it and maybe taking a point. What did you think of this? Because that's exactly what this says. I've conflicted feelings.

Good. I'm infuriated. I'm infuriated for two reasons. One, that is on its face a stupid thing. Like, that's just like that is a prima facie idiot thing. you i i encourage anyone to provide the argument to me why we're going to start enforcing the rules like why have them what is the purpose of rules if not to enforce them like it's the pirates

of the caribbean scene they're more like guidelines no this is a sport what are you talking about can you imagine in any other like premier sport where they're like yeah we don't really do it or whatever it's like yeah like technically on the books if you kick some dude in the shin that's that's a foul but we're just like it's okay hack them away play on in soccer or some shit's insane it's an insane thing to be like yeah there's a rule that we just chose not to enforce because we thought the fans might feel the type of away about it. It was like, okay, I didn't realize your job was the quality of viewing experience for the fans. I thought your job was protect fighters, one, two, enforce the rules. What fuck is happening? It's insane to me that that is like, that he, now I see why refs don't talk to people because they say shit like this. And two, and possibly more infuriating. Like, I can't, as this was happening,

I was just like, as you were reading that, and I pulled up the quotes and looking over him, none of what he said is, like all of what he said is true, but none of it's true, if that makes sense, Mike. Because like, like the part that got me that I've been in a spin for the last two minutes is trying to be like, what? What did you think was happening, Herbert? Like, what was going on where, where is it?

The rule's already in place. It's more of a reactive to the damaging and unbalancing of the fight that's been done by a foul. Okay, so you, that is correct. That is on the books, how the rules are written. And frankly, like the correct application of taking points. You take points to rebalance a fight that has been unbalanced because it's the only way we have to balance fights. Right. Like the non-offending fighter has been injured.

the only way to make that good is to take a point. It's why in general you don't take point like they are very reticent to take points for cage grabs because like, you know, it doesn't feel like that equivalent, like was equivalent. But like very clearly he states and is correct, here's why we take points and when it happens. Except you tell me the last time Herb Dean took a point. as he takes one point every three years and fights are unbalanced it happens all the time so he knows that this is when we when it is done and why it is applied and he almost never chooses to apply it which is infuriating to be like i know that i'm supposed to do this i know why and i'm looking

this dude in the eye i'm looking kevin holland you know who got low blowed or whatever in the eye and seeing these clearly affected play on like Like, it's infuriating that, that like, because pre before this, I could have been like, well, maybe they're just stupid. Maybe they just don't know the rules, which is also bad, but like, they're not this. And so, like, you know it and you don't apply it, which then leads me to my final point. Nothing's going to change. Nothing's going to change. Because, like, we're going to enforce the rules.

What does that mean? If you're going to enforce the rules the way you currently enforce the iPoke rule, that means you're just going to tell. tell them to stop doing it. Well, stop doing it. So don't do it. Oh, you've done it eight times? Maybe one more time it'll be a problem. Mike, it's insane, man.

Just remove the ambiguity. I am now more confident than I've ever been in my belief that we should take a point for every infraction. If you want to rewrite the rules so it can be a half point, okay? I think that's a little silly, but sure. But I can't look at this damn quote. I don't trust any ref to make a judgment call ever anymore because apparently they can't and so why is their ambiguity?

They need to be robots. They are automatones of foul occurred penalty given because if you're giving them any sort of interpretive leeway apparently they suck at it. That's what I got from this. This was awful. God damn that ruined my day. Yeah.

And then he said they're going to rewrite the language as to like what the fingers can do because his argument was for the hospital eye poke gone wasn't fighting like this he was fighting like this it's like fingers more like up in the air but then they like automatically came down on it so they're gonna redo that and then he said and then he said that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard by the way like yes zero gone wasn't john jonesing like he was not straight up you know like three stoogesing but herb i don't know if you know this the fingers ended up in the eyeballs they didn't come up from here to the

eyeballs they came into the eyeballs like what oh my god also that sort of goes against the whole previous point which is well it's to rebalance the fight it doesn't matter how my finger ends up in your eyeball it ended up there the fight is unbalanced now this is how we bring it back to order this is like basic common sense that is so not difficult to fix and it is being treated as if it's the greatest mystery in the history of the world like this is being act as if it's the fucking finding atlantis or some shit when it is like a six year old could figure this out i don't understand why it's so hard uh last thing he says about this i had i was laughing too hard so i had to stop listening at this point uh quote

When Sean Strickland fights, I know he has a bad boy image. I'm not trying to make him a teacher's pet, but man, he's my favorite. When I see him come out with this and he's legitimately correct. Yeah, he basically does this. Like instead of doing this, like Sean's doing this. Yeah. And he's parrying all around. I don't have to worry about the fingers.

He's right. Yeah. Yeah. Sean Strickland. Somebody pointed this out and I don't remember who because it happened. This was immediately after the Tom thing. and i thought it was a really good point um israel disin you right like how is i'm not saying he's never poked anybody in the eye because i don't but it is not a thing that happens and you

know why it doesn't happen because when he posts and paris like when he is posting off the face which is what which is what um or god was doing or whatever like he's not posting with his fingers up he posts off the face parallel it is much more difficult to get your fingers in the eye if you're going here than if you're just going at somebody's face like this like that's just like it it is not a thing that has to happen again i've said this before i already wrote about it argued i don't even give a shit if it is like i i do not care we expect professional athletes to be in control of themselves in ways that are unnatural constantly all the time that is what you get paid money for if you and i are fist fight mike yeah man maybe i might poke you in the eyes by actually

that's sort of part and parcel of us not being professionals. They're professional athletes. We can elevate our expectations for what is demanded of them. And plenty of fighters, Sean Strickland, do. So what are we talking about here? What are we

talking about here? It is not hard. Make a rulebook that's longer than six pages because there's not a shortage of trees on this earth. This is not a, we got to save the ecosystem by keeping it as minimal as possible expansive rulebook outlining every possible scenario and explicitly how we respond to

it and then guess what mike maybe a coffin corner case happens and it's not in the rulebook you know what we do then we add it we add it after it happens but you cover everything you can in as much detail as possible so there's none of this stupid ass interpretation about what we can and cannot or choose not to enforce. This is the expectation of businesses and adults the world over. And it's just a fucking free for all in this sport. It is wild. What a time.

Good. I made a remember when Mike said Monday, we'd have big news from Dana? I'm sorry. I took a stab and was wrong. What do you want me to tell you? We're got to get the news this week. Like I,

maybe it's not. That would be way better if, come January, we still didn't know who was fighting January 16th or whatever. Tune into Paramount on January 21st, whatever it is. Find out who's fighting. I always said they should have done that with Tony and Habib. Like, just

don't announce it. Yeah. Just be like, tune in on UFC Fight Pass. For pay-per-view, it's $9.99. Biggest main event in UFC history. It's going to happen at the apex. And just don't announce it and just have both guys, like, show up and fight. That would be the

greatest thing. But Yeah, I don't know what's going to happen. I'm just going by the UFC playbook, man. There's a shit ton of bad PR going on right now with that company. I mean, like, real bad. And you would think that they want to get the attention moving in a more positive direction. But it just shows that they just don't care about any of it. So, and that's what happens when you win the race.

Like, you don't need to cater to that and, like, shift the, you know, the court of public opinion and how people view you. Like, you don't have, they don't have to. do that right now they they have so much backing they've the right people on their side like they don't need to worry about any of their shit so i'm sorry if i threw out a guess that i was incorrect but we we're six weeks away i'm embarrassed for you michael i know i should strip me of my of my reporter title because i do this and you don't cover one what the shit oh and i don't cover one moitai yeah uh a couple of it's hanging on by also just so we're clear on the one thing who was the RDR guy

before anybody was talking about that guy right here, wear it. Very, very true. A. Spooky, surprised by the Proaches Leon line. His only path to victory to be as a K.O. And I don't think he has the footwork to track Leon.

S.N. Gable Stevenson versus Josh Hoke at early prelim opener at the White House. That is not the worst idea I've ever heard. I love that idea. They'll never do it because I think the UFC's going to try to push both those dudes. So... You're probably.

probably right, but that's not the worst idea I've ever heard. Be a great fight. They're going to give Gable. They're going to bring the UFC's got to sign Billy Swanson to fight at the White House. Like, that's what they're going to do. Like, they're going to give Gable a good old fashioned squasharoo. Or who's the dude that, uh, who's the dude, hoke could just beat?

Uh, Jimenez, they're giving him. Like, that's, that's perfect. Go out there and. It just style. Because that's what's going to happen. So, but as far as the, uh, the Pratchez Leon line, according to our friends at Fandul Jed, uh, Pratchez a minus 215 favorite, the comeback on Leon Edwards plus 164. Uh, do you agree?

Are you surprised by the betting line here? I'm not. I think the line's exactly spot on. A Leon can win this fight. Um, it is a different fight than the previous two, right? Like, Prattis isn't going to take him down and that, despite the fact that Leone has pretty good take down defense historically. and I know that people who are recent fans will not agree with that statement

because they watched him fall over the first every time he was touched functionally against Ballal and Brady and he himself is a pretty good offensive wrestler and clinch fighter so like he has avenues to succeed here I'm picking protest I have a bet on protest again Leon can win I have two main concerns and they're a little bit inter interwoven the first is um how do i put this delicately leon's a head case and i talked about this a lot on no bet's bar again it drops to home morning leon mike what is the defining moment of leon edward's career like when when he's getting inducted into the hall of fame what is the clip that will play

the head kick of kamar isman not even the head kick i mean the head kick will be part of it, but it, it won't be of him. It will be of his coach pleading with this man like, like vintage Teddy Atlas. Stop letting him bully you. You're not out of this fight. Please like I believe in you. Don't let him do it, son. Try, commit, be like it is the defining moment of his career is not even of himself. It is of him sitting there looking sullen and defeated while the commentary is like Leon's mentally broken and his coach is begging him to not be. And then he throws, you know, one of the greatest strikes in the history of the sport. And it's it's this crowning incredible achievement. But that is kind of the story of Leon Edwards. Like,

yeah, this dude is super talented. But he is a bit of a head case. And I'm looking at his career right now, I'm like, yeah, I think the head kick was a little bit lucky, right? Like, he threw it. So it's not a, it's not a fluke. He threw it thing, but like, I don't know that he was really setting that up in the long term. Like, he saw an opening through it and it happened to kill Usman. And then in the rematch, which I think is Leon's best performance of all time, he suddenly had belief and self-confidence. It was like, okay, yeah, man.

Like, I am the best dude in the world. and the moment things got bad like the moment Balal got in front of him he just collapsed like he his everything about him just sort of fell apart and that translated over into the Sean Brady

fight and I don't I just do not believe in his mental headspace right now and so you know he's going to come in and call his protest the difference in vibes between these two could not be more stark

and the last thing I'll say the other part of it outside of all of that which is the biggest piece of it basically in every fight Leon lets his opponents into it at some point I mean the shell of Nate Diaz nearly got him right at the end of that fight and if the shell of Nate Diaz can do that to you man call his protest is going to end your line so uh you know if Leon comes out and looks rejuvenated and scores a bunch of takedowns that'll be dope but call his protest is actually pretty good to defensive wrestler. I think this line is correctly lined and maybe it was not even heavily enough towards protest. Yeah. It's it's so funny when people like even Oosman himself when he reflects on the Leon Edwards like moment there. He was like, I'm not going to say it's a fluke.

And he always says fluke and then he goes, no, I'm not going to say it's a fluke. It's a Hail Mary. And he's not wrong. That is in fact the exact correct way to describe it. One million percent. He goes, if it wasn't for a Hail Mary or a Fluke, oh no, I'm sorry, wasn't if Luke was a Hail Mary, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now about me being next for the belt because I'd still be champion. But then he always forgets

that they fought again and Leon beat him convincingly. Yeah. Like it was not a close fight. It was not a fight where it's like, oh. A very clear performance and win. Very clear.

So like, it's how that is forgotten from history in this conversation is hilarious. And Smar from Usman to not mention that. It should be Hail Mary and then I fought Hamzaat Shabayev. It's like the third. fight never happened with uh with leon but that was like a click like you got a run back they gave you a chance

to avenge it and you didn't so like that's why i'm i'm like why are we having him jump the line here but again you're absolutely right because even in the colby fight like leon beat colby like very convincingly but that fifth round like colby started getting in his face he took him to the ground won the fifth round i mean leon might have been cruised a little bit because he was so far ahead on the cards, but I mean, Pratchez is like, once you can put doubt in him, the doubt takes over. That's why it's a great fight.

I think this is perfect matchmaking. Carlos Prattis does not doubt anything other than that like maybe cigarettes are bad for you. Like he might doubt that, but he certainly doesn't doubt his ability to do violence. Yeah.

The Mazadal fight was always the one just because like, it's whatever juice is left, like it's very little. So just do it. at this point, but if we're not doing Mazadol, this is the right fight, because we're going to learn that we talk about this all the time, Dad, like we want to learn things about

these fighters. Even a guy like Leon Edwards at this point in his career, like we feel like guys like this who have been around so long, we've learned everything we need to know. We haven't. We could learn something new about Leon Edwards tonight, or on Saturday. And that's what makes me very I think it's great matchmaking, man.

100%. It's great matchmaking. Both guys can win. Like, I do believe Leon can win he's incredibly talented and he's not like old but he I got to tell you man as I started doing breakdowns of this I got major Tyrood Woodley vibes of like when he fell off the train never got on the tracks again like because yeah like okay Tyrone Woodley lost to Kamar Usman well Kamar Usman is one of the greatest water rights of all time no shame in that well he lost to Colby Covenant well Colby's good man

like Kobe at his peak was a was you know one of the three best welter weights in the world like a very good dude I lost to gobert burns okay Gilbert burns is good but like we're we're clearly taking steps backwards now well he got bravoed by vicente luke who we all love but like it's vicente luke man it just it feels like this is exactly okay leon lost the belt okay lost to a really really good guy okay now call his protest is kind of gilbert burnsy right like they're in a pretty similar sort of tier range and it's just like yeah man i it feels like he's not going to get the train on the tracks yeah i mean our losses i don't think he's ever fighting for the belt again um absolutely not i don't think he's anyway with a loss it's 100% yeah with a win with the loss like he's so far away

at this point um i mean the sean brady loss is like so etched in people's minds where I mean, it was just, I mean, it was one of the biggest thumpings in a welterweight fight in a long time with like top rank guys. Like that was, that was like that are bad for your career. Yeah. That was a very, that wasn't quite fluffy Roman DeLidezay, but it was like a step below it. So we'll see what happens on Saturday. It's a big one for him. Spencer, got to say, excited for Islam, Jack, but I'm a bit sad with the trajectory of Islam's career and wish he stayed at lightweight,

longer. If he does win, is he top 10 men's pound for pound all time? And if not, how many Ws away is he from top 10? I think this is a really good question. Mike, what do you think? If he wins, is he top 10? Uh, not quite, I think he's really cool. Like, I have to sit there and, like, list them off and do it.

it like we do rankings like if i really like take my time and go through pound for pound rankings like i'm going to have to go through the same strategy i would say he's probably just short of top 10 right now maybe like he's probably inside of 20 at the moment and i think a win might bump him up like a couple of spots um and then if he beats oosman it does nothing for me at all really at this point uh you know but if he beats ilia and beat chavcot like matt Matt Brown's point was, and I would present this back to you, Matt Brown says, like, if Islam goes on a four-fight win streak at Welterweight, like he's in, not just the top-10 discussion, he's in the-

That's correct take. He's in the all-time. It's correct take. I agree. I agree. But how many, like, how many wins will it take to get him like, oh, yeah, he's clearly in the top 10? Because Usman, like, this win would be great.

Usman doesn't do much for me. You think him and Usman gets him there? I think he needs one more. I think Hussman does enough for me. There are people who already think that a win will put him in the top five because people have been coming at me in my mentions. Okay. I think those people are wrong and stupid.

Not even like just I think you are dumb. Or maybe not dumb. I think you do not have any understanding that things happened before the past five years. and that you know like historical stuff exists I he might be top he will have a case certainly for top 10 if he beats Jack I think I would still have him outside of it very very closely because the thing that

I feel a lot that I think people just don't they don't think about it and I think if they thought about it they would recognize this more everybody is so impressed with winning a belt in a second weight class and it's impressive I'm not here to say that that's a nothing accomplishment it is a very good one right um winning a belt in a second weight class doesn't mean you are the best fighter in the world of that way class it means you won one fight in that way class right like that's it it means it and maybe that was just a favorable matchup everybody acknowledges that styles make fights and that this sport

has a huge degree of randomness involved but they can acknowledge that in one hand and then they're like well but he won this belt greatest fighter who's ever lived if is al-machchev beats jack del madalena he will on paper be the best world to wait in the world is he actually i don't know he could be i'm not saying he's not and he deservedly has the belt that generally represents that but in the context of what that means the best fighter in a weight class is a guy who's been doing the work in that weight class and has beaten a bunch of dudes to establish himself clearly as the best guy, right? And so, like, Islam could be better than everybody else, but it also could be,

you know, Shafcott Rachmanov or Sean Brady or any of these, do Michael Morales or whatever. So he won't really have a claim to being the best welterweight in the world. He will just have won the belt, which again, not nothing. I just want to put that in context there. a defense, even if it is against Kamar Usman, right? Like who wouldn't deserve it. Commer Usman's still a top 10 guy. That's still more proof that he is amongst, if not the best welterweight

as opposed to just beating one guy one time. Because like, when I make that thing, it's like, nobody other than the most ardent fans would ever suggest that Connor McGregor has ever been the best lightweight in the world. He just beat Eddie Alvarez's ass because he got the opportunity and he won the fight. But at any point in time, Obie was better than him, et cetera. And so the same thing is here.

I think any title of defense helps his case and probably puts him in the top ten. But I've said it a bunch on this program and others. There are six. There is the pantheon of six of the greatest fighters of all time. There's John Jones, Anderson, Silva, Fador Emilienenko, Jose Aldo, George St. Pierre, and who's the other person in the six that I'm not thinking about?

It's hard to remember. Oh, Demetius Johnson. Those six, they are the best. are the six best fighters who've ever lived. To me, I think very, very clearly, Alexander Volkinovsky, Habib Naramagamatov, are also in the top 10. Abib, I'm at least open to an argument

because his career was truncated, et cetera, but he did enough, he's accomplished enough. Also, Marab is about to be seven. He's about to join the Pantheon. Many people already have him in there. If he beat Peoria, he's in the Pantheon. It's the seven plus Alexander Volkanowski makes eight that leaves two spots left in the top ten Islam will be great you can sort of poke holes in his career not through it not his fault

but a thing that happened and so for two spots to be you know like israel disney had a great career Alex Pereira having an amazing career and still going like you know there are a lot of guys with claims for very few spots in the top ten but he will definitely have have a very valid argument for it and i think if he does defend the belt once i'm really open to it i'm really really open to it i mean we'll see he's got beat jdm so that's the first thing uh boy i got to tell you watching jdm fights over the last couple a couple days has been really fun he's dope man yeah i mean i i knew he was fun and i knew it would be a a good exercise but i didn't realize like how much fun I had

or I was going to have until I started watching them I was like oh he can absolutely win this fight he absolutely can't I'm not going to pick him to but he certainly can yeah he absolutely can I'm probably going to bet on him because I do think this fight should be lying closer

so I do think there's a little bit of value on JDM I think he's being overlooked a touch here but great fight I'm looking forward to it I think that makes sense my take on this is your take on the co-main you think he's going to smoke him I think Islam might just beat this shit out of him and that's not a statement about Jack Delamadalina,

who I believe is one of the five best welfare rates on Earth and very, very good. And not at his peak, right? Like he is, this will be the best one we've ever seen on Saturday. And he's still got years to sort of hit that peak. I don't know. The energies of the universe feel like Islamakov is heading towards a significant coronation. Bobby, if the Pats and Colts beating the playoffs, special watch party i mean i don't know when that would happen but maybe uh i you've met my buddy graham

who is from boston and a big pass fan we have been in our we're in a fantasy league together we know we're in a big group chat we've been talking a lot about it because neither of us entered this season with expectations and um you know all of our friend group you know there's actually a very diverse like one of our friends is a dolphins fan a bunch of falcons fans or whatever and it's just like somehow our teams are the good ones and it's like oh it's like it's like oh five again man like suddenly it's pats and colts baby in the asc championship who knew uh it's terrific i'm having a great time i'm enjoying this and so much fun i was i was talking to i was talking to i was talking to my cousin the other day when i was driving up and we were talking about like how

good the Patriots are right now. And he goes, in like his super thick Boston accent. He goes, he goes, you know, I can't wait for all the Bills fans to cry about it. They're going to say you guys have been irrelevant for the Patriots have been irrelevant and that nobody gave a shit. And now they go out there and they beat the bills and the bills are out here losing to the fucking Miami Dolphins. He goes, and all this stuff like, and I was just like, yeah, you're probably right. And now you're seeing it everywhere. You're seeing it everywhere. I saw how Lottie go off on this the other day. I was like, I was like, just talking about this, that all you guys are irrelevant. Of course, the Patriots fans are going to come out and trash the Bills fans.

No, this is just fun. But I, like he called it. He called me. He goes, wait till you see all the Bills fans who have platforms are going to come out and say this shit. And it was terrific. It's one of the, we have a guy who's a Bills fan as well. It's one of, I need everyone that's not a fan of those two teams or everyone that is a fan of those two teams. to understand that everyone else hates you both right now like everybody has always hate the patriots they're a great villain right like they just are and now they're back and that feels thing but like the and i understand that the bills have a little brother's like syndrome about this and that they are taking this especially hard and in part the past fans are

absolutely needling them in a way that is we're the best at it yeah i wouldn't call it cool But it's definitely like your Pats fans clearly have been feeling some type of way about the ascendance of Josh Allen and the bills last five years. And now they're taking this window to sort of strike back. And it's just like all of like people like Josh Allen, but Bill's fans are and people broadly support the bills. Like that's, I guess this is really more like nobody's ever going to like the Patriots except for the Patriots fans. Like that's it would be 20 years of y'all sucking to get back in the good. graces of people and so y'all are okay with that mantle but specifically aerial and like other bills fans i feel like you're burning the goodwill that the other fan bases have for you because

last season i think everybody was like man if the bills won that'd be sick josh allen's cool buffalo deserves its great fan base but like going this direction because the paths are poking you sometimes you got to ignore that you got to ignore the poke and like very clearly because i know this because again i'm on i was in a room with a bills fan and a pats fan as that game was happening and the bills fan was just shitty you know was being there furious and the pats fan was shit eating they'd be like man sucks that you missed your window that drake made is the best quarterback in the conference now and he was losing his mind you got to ignore it because otherwise other like the fans of the other 30 teams are going to stop being like

it'd be cool they nobody will ever be like well we want the pets and be like yeah man i don't really care if josh allen beats the chiefs it it doesn't matter to me anymore because you guys are burning your goodwill by acting this way don't respond take the high road that's right that's how you do it you act like it never happened that's that that's how you do it yeah that's how you do it when you react to somebody saying a statement like that they're winning we're like oh sucks that you guys missed your window and then you get angry about it they have won you got to just feel like we'll see about that or whatever yeah see our like our mentality is like the bills could go in the bills could like burn the house dale yeah the bills could like go in there and beat the

patriots and like the a fc championship game and like beat the shit out of them like it like they could do that and they will celebrate it was just like the nicks it was just like when the nix beat the Celtics. Their fan base was like, F. Jason Tatum, I'm glad he got injured. You know, we're the best. We're the champs. And then you went out and just got absolutely dummied in the next round. So like, like that was your victory celebration. And Bill's fans will do the same thing. Like they go, even if they win the Super Bowl, they'll be like, yeah, got it, did it. But then, like, in our minds, we're like, yeah, but you got to win six more to actually beat us, though. Like, that's great to you won one. I'm probably.

Good job, little brother, but you got to win six more until you can ever do that. Just like Yankees fans, the only ones who can't say that are Yankees fans, because they have all the banners up there, but we have the 3-0 comeback. And like, the Yankees could win 100 championships, beat the Red Sox in the ALCS every single time, but they will always lose the race because of 2004. This is a terrific insight into the mind of a Boston sports fan. Yeah, we know. We're the best.

You can do the mental gymnastics to make sure you win regardless. Yeah, we're assholes. Look, I respect the ability. I don't agree with most of it. And I think it's largely insane, but you live in your world and that's okay. Bill's fans need to, because like the reason it's getting to them is because they, and for good reason, they can't trust that this is real, right? because they have yet to win the big one.

So they've not gotten the monkey off their back. And it is very clearly that there's like just, just true fear that it's that that's real. They're like, oh shit, our window did miss. And we, we didn't get there. And that sucks. But you see how this works? Look at the comments.

Look at the comments. I can feel the virtual tears. I'll go get my umbrella right now. Like, I'm going to go grab my umbrella so I can avoid myself of the tears. of the non new england fans it's terrific but you see this like this this is just funny like this stuff annoys people and they take it personally look we don't care they're boston as a city is a terrific villain city yeah it's unbelievable everybody knew villain

they fill that role they haven't for a while in football because they've sucked now they don't that's right you know the the thing that i think the way you get back at boston fans if you're a Bill fan um i know this because the boston fans in my life people were starting to hate the chiefs because they sure were but boston has pre like they haven't boston hasn't actually accomplished anything but they're already like assuming the role and it's letting the chiefs kind to get back to thing and i got to tell you there's nothing that i know a pat's fan hates more than patrick homes in kansas city so you just got to be like yeah well let's go my homes or whatever and that'll infuriate the Patriots fans because they are terrified that by the end

of it Patrick Mahomes will overtake Brady I don't think he will because it's just he's dude's incredible he's absolutely incredible but it's so hard to get that like to that level yeah but like for the last five years gram my Patriots friend the only like his Super Bowl has been the Chiefs losing. Like, it's the only thing he has wanted is Chiefs losing. And two years, it failed miserably. And he was, he couldn't have been happier last season watching that Super Bowl. Like, it was as if the Patriots won another one because the Eagles just beat the

tall out of the Chiefs and he loved life. Yeah. Look, all, by the way, just to we're clear, I'm just messing around here. Like, I love the O'Engo teams. But I, but see, this is, this is just a prime example. of like we know what to say and what to do to like piss off everybody you're terrific villains so it's all good listen i trust me when i tell you this if if this was if this if you if we found like two thousand six mic heck and put them on this show right now you boy you would hate me like you

would you would hate me so so much what's interesting is there aren't really any good MMA Boston villains like nobody from Boston has like really been like a heel nah they've all been really good dudes yeah people just like them they're likeable cater font lozon and I feel like that's a

that's a untapped potential for just some masshole to really stick his nose in and establish himself as like one of the premier heels in the sport I'm actually talking to I know some Boston people because there's a window there's a there's a opening I'm talking to address into England person in general like I'm talking to uh I'm talking to Nate Gerebe who's actually

fighting on the LFA card at the top of the hour who oddly enough like I've known Nate for a long time he's at ETT now training but Nate's I think in the co-main event of Saturday's card or Friday's card excuse me and oh great point from I say ghost makes a good point. Ghost makes a good point That's a great point. I'll pull that up at a second. Yeah, it's a good point. But yeah, I actually ring announced like Nate's like last amateur fight and his first pro fight. So to see him like in this position and like now I'm going to be speaking with him before this fight on fries pretty, pretty wild.

But maybe I'll just be like, dude, maybe you just be like the heel. Just be the Boston asshole. It'd be great. Dana White is from Boston, the ultimate villain. So there's a good point. I will just quibble with it in that, one, for most MMA fans, Dana White is the hero, not the villain. That's true. And two, he's not a fighter, so it doesn't, it's not the same.

Like, just get, get us the face. He is the star in the face of the company. But get us a real mass hole in there to push buttons and, you know, like obnoxiously rock Patriots gear everywhere. Yeah. And just like everybody, because honestly, like, I've given Colby coming to a ton of credit for this in his career. did recently, I'm sure like, I think Colby Covington made an incredibly wise career move and associating himself with the MAGA movement. Setting aside politics or anything, I'm not taught, I don't, I don't care about that.

He connected himself to a rising movement that had ardent fans and ardent haters. And strictly just through doing that became a polarizing, a, headline grabbing figure either you were a fan of him because you were a fan of the political movement he associated with and that's as good a reason to like anybody for anything frankly or you hated him because of the political movement he associated with and he was annoying and so he didn't have to do anything he didn't have to cut good promos he just made it these two things are connected big window for an mma fighter to just do that with like Patriots and like Boston Sports to just be the Boston sports fighter because fans of non-combat

sports that aren't either from Boston will love him and everyone else would be like I hate that dude because I hate the Patriots big opportunity and there's not the like you know that's never going to close marketing opportunities if you're the Patriots sports guy right whereas like your political associations may or may not hurt your other like external branding opportunities so a huge opportunity if i was from boston would absolutely just be the lean into that i love that so much what a great shout what a great shout right there well played tell tell your people yeah i think may just be be the assholes city of champions guy be that dude spent like and it's got to be somebody with a wicked boston accent too or if he

doesn't have one put it on like play it up yeah just it's so perfect be josh hoak it just like put those sunglasses every post fight but they'd be boston city of champions got a new one wicked good at this fighting thing just be like okay everyone's gonna hate you or love you perfect shut up haters shut up you haters uh be so incredible uh jent your i favor's coming out of retirement to main event an a1 combat card yeah people will retire how do you feel about legends popping up for one-offs and who might you like to see return for one so also is this perhaps you can enlighten that's that is my question because all the announcements are your riot is competing in the main event of this card but there is from everything that

I've looked for there is not a single thing that says it's an MMA fight so he has done this exact thing before and it didn't come to fruition right like this like at an A1 thing he was supposed, I think last year, um, but it was going to be a grappling match and yeah, or maybe it even did happen. I don't know. I think it did. It might have even happened. Um, it wouldn't shock me if he's not going to be in my fight. It's not going to be in my fight. I wouldn't put it at zero. I think it's very low. Well, like, you know, he was trying to do the GFL thing when that was, that was a fun two weeks. Um, and fighters don't retire. But this is his organization. My guess is he's just going to grapple somebody. And that's fine. I have no issue with old dudes grappling.

I don't need to see an almost 50-year-old fistfighter guy. It's never good. It's just the best case scenario is like Andre Olavsky knocked out Kells on Saturday. And that's, do I really care about that? I'm happy Andre didn't lose. But that's the extent to which I care about it. So I would prefer him not fist fight somebody, but if he's grappling, totally fine. There you go.

all right i think we're uh i think we're good jed it is your day off which you appreciate you jumping on here um so uh talk jed um on the uriah favor thing it is always funny when he fights because the 46 year old california kid is i mean that's just how can you not laugh at that um otherwise guys i don't know if you know this we are four days away from the best fight part of the year. Two champ-fights. I didn't look this up and I meant to live it up. I believe, Mike, technically this is not true.

I believe this is the first time in the history that two champion fights are hard because there have been very limited of those anyway. And technically neither Makachev nor Zhang are champions. We all know everybody. We don't have to bury our head in the sand and act stupid. We know that these are champ-champ fights. in an all but name first time that's ever happened uh this is this is these are the events we

wait for i cannot possibly be more excited for saturday three michoulin stars baby three stars yeah i think you could put it like i think we could do the melzer just add half stars when needed uh just go beyond that's how i'm feeling about this one and this is what i say like you know I've I had a bunch of people like DM me be like oh you all you do is complain and be negative and all that shit not true because guess what we have this and this is all we ask for just when the promotion tries it's good for everybody and this is a good one this is a damn good one this is we get we get full effort from everybody involved we get cards like this the excitement levels grow and this card friggin rocks we'll have your coverage all week long

Media Day tomorrow, press conference Thursday, weigh-ins Friday, watch party, Saturday, all the fun stuff. Stick with us at mayfighting.com. This terrific website. Until that, everybody. Good night. Love y'all.

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.