MMA Fighting - BTL | Jon Jones, Islam Makhachev vs. Bobby Green, Triller-BKFC Deal, More

Episode Date: February 24, 2022

A new video of Jon Jones’ September arrest has been released. Does it change how you view the situation? Will it change the UFC’s? Those questions will be addressed this week on Between the Links, along with the debate amongst the MMA community in regards to the video itself and if it should be on the newswire, who stole this past weekend between UFC Vegas 48, Bellator 274, and BKFC: KnuckleMania 2, Triller acquiring a majority stake in the BKFC, the stakes in the Islam Makhachev vs. Bobby Green UFC Vegas 49 headliner on Saturday, the rest of the card at the APEX, Bellator 275 headlined by a middleweight title bout between Gegard Mousasi and Austin Vanderford, and more. Mike Heck moderates the discussion between MMA Fighting’s Shaun Al-Shatti and Jed Meshew. Follow Mike Heck: @MikeHeck_JR Follow Shaun Al-Shatti: @ShaunAlShatti Follow Jed Meshew: @JedKMeshew Subscribe: http://goo.gl/dYpsgH Check out our full video catalog: http://goo.gl/u8VvLi Visit our playlists: http://goo.gl/eFhsvM Like MMAF on Facebook: http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z Follow on Twitter: http://goo.gl/nOATUI Read More: http://www.mmafighting.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. Anime Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you back to a brand new edition of Between the Links. Hope everybody is having a great week. Happy to be back with another episode of the program. I love doing this show. And this week, as always, a lot to discuss.

It's going to be more of a roundtable edition, some different things that I want to, get into that might be, I guess, suitable for, or not suitable, if you will, for a competitive type atmosphere. But we're still going to have some fun, discuss some of the big news going on in the world of MMA and beyond. So let us introduce the panel for this week first. It's been a while since we've had him on. I think the last time he was on was the first week he was officially back with M.A. Fighting. It was a while, but happy to welcome back, M.M.A. Fighting zone, Shaheen Al-Shadi to the program. Sean, how are you, sir? I'm doing good.

Mike, I'm doing good. It's good to be back. Yeah, last time I was on, I think I was a little bit scarred. It was the tag team match between where me and Jose got completely robbed. Somehow, Kamara Usman was the breakout fighter of the year. It was utterly ridiculous judging, and I vowed to never be back on this program, but I can't quit you guys. I love you too much. I appreciate. I forgot about the tag team division. We got to bring that back at some point. But speaking of champions, let us once again welcome back the reigning defending BTL champion. and he may not feel like the undisputed champion, but that clock's got to be ticking, right?

I think that championship feeling is becoming stronger by the week, I would say, Mr. Jedmishu. How are you? I'm willing to accept being champion. Am I defending? I thought this was a roundtable. I'm happy to defend because, as my compatriot, Sean Oshaddy just noted,

I am the man who made the argument that Kamar Usman was the breakout fighter of the year, which was a genius and brilliant argument, and obviously entirely correct because that's the one that won. So, you know, there's a reason on the champion. Mike, it's all I'm saying. It's a reason. Yes. I mean, the reigning defending champion thing is like a cliche thing.

I would say you have defended this title already. So I think it lines up perfectly. So let's get right into this thing. Let's begin with the topic that has been reheated this week. It's become kind of a debate in the MMA space, but I do feel it is important to discuss it from multiple angles. We'll do that right now. John Jones is in the news once again, and yes, it's not a topic that hasn't been discussed before,

but earlier this week, a new video surfaced first brought to light by the Las Vegas Review Journal from his arrest in September for misdemeanor battery domestic violence and injuring or tampering with a vehicle after getting inducted into the UFC Hall of Fame. Went on to strike a plea deal. Domestic violence charges dropped, but this video had not been seen before. He's shown headbutting a police car. He said some not so great things. He felt like he was targeted because of his race and on and on it goes.

It was a lot, Sean Al Shadi. So what was your reaction to the video? Did it change your view on the situation at all? Oh, man. We're just starting right out with the rough stuff. I mean, man, it was obviously sad to watch, man. I mean, there's no other reaction to it other than just, I mean, it's something it's very difficult to watch.

and it's sad to see just I mean it's one thing when you read about it right when you read the police report and you see john jones headbutted a police car and all of this stuff and obviously that same night the domestic abuse or the domestic violence allegations is just all of it and what you hear from his ex-fiancee i guess at this point and the kids and just all of it it's it's all a bad situation but when you see the video it really does crystallize sort of just how rough and how just sort of sad this whole thing has become. come. It's not, no one wants to see their heroes like that. And you certainly don't want to see one of the greatest fighters of all time throwing a tantrum in the streets of Las Vegas and just being really, really messy and sad, man. I don't know that there's another word for it other than sad. I keep saying sad, but it's just a rough watch. And it's one that I certainly don't ever want to go back and watch again. But you just party of feels for John, obviously. I mean, this is one of the probably one of the most embarrassing moments of his life and his career just out there on video for the entire world to see.

But also it's just like, man, maybe this is a wake-up call for the guy. Maybe this is sort of a rock bottom that he needed. But it's just bad, man. It's just a bad situation all around. And ultimately, I mean, maybe this was inevitable that he would reach this sort of place with the direction that he was going. But it's rough. It's rough stuff, man.

What did you think about it, Jed? I mean, not fun to watch. Obviously, guys going through a lot. You know, hopefully, like Sean said, this was rock bottom. And he's trying to climb out of that hole. I know he said that, you know, he's about to fight for the heavyweight title. That fight hasn't been booked yet. We don't know what's going to have with the heavyweight division.

But your reaction to seeing that video that just hadn't been released until a couple days ago. I think Sean drove to the point really well. Like, sad is just the big word, right? Like, it is different to watch that as opposed to read about it and to kind of see exactly the depth of what happened. because when you read about it, it takes you two seconds. It's very quick. It's, yeah, John Jones was arrested, you know, allegations of domestic abuse. And for headbutting a cop car, arrested, yada, yada.

That's over really quickly. It's a long video. He's in custody or in handcuffs for a while before they end up putting him in the back of the car, which we get into a whole separate thing about why it transpired the way it did. feels like they should have put him in the back of the car a lot sooner and then the headbutting thing wouldn't have happened but here it's just not how it went down it I do not I want to choose my words extremely carefully here I do not often and in general side with the police in a lot of matters I was at least encouraged by how

how this interaction was mostly handled well. Because I distinctly remember at the time thinking that I did not feel super comfortable commenting or talking that much about the topic because it's an area rife with with potentially problematic stuff. John Jones is a black man in America who at the time was engaged to a white woman and an accused of domestic abuse and being detained and arrested. Like there's a lot of sociopolitical stuff going in. into play there that I'm just not super comfortable to be the arbiter of good and wrong and all that

stuff. But I was at least encouraged to see that from my perspective, what I could tell, outside of them leaving them on the hood of the car for a little longer than it was probably necessary, there didn't appear to be any kind of foul play amongst the police officers there. And so that is the one silver lining I can take from this, but otherwise it's everything that Sean said, where this is mostly just a sad and tragic view into one of the best athletes we've ever seen in the sport at a really low point. I'm not willing to call this rock bottom because he's had a lot of really bad points. This just happens to be one that's called on camera of frankly many.

And knock on wood, hopefully not. potentially more to come. So it just sucked. And it wasn't all that great. But it's been a bad week for a lot of things. So, you know, that's just where we are right now. That is very true. And you know this is going to happen either this weekend or next weekend when the

pay-per-view happens. But you know, Dana's going to be asked about this. You know the UFC is going to be asked about this whole situation now that the video is out there. Jed, do you feel like the UFC's view may have changed after actually seeing the video? Like, they haven't delivered any sanctions or suspensions yet. And, you know, we know what happened comparing the Luis Pena situation to this situation. We saw Luis Pena get released from the company.

John Jones, that didn't happen. But now that this video is out there and you can kind of see it for yourself, do you think there will be any kind of response to it? No, I don't. I don't, to be frank, I don't think there should be. I think if you're going to have a response, the response should have come to the allegations made. Because frankly, this video doesn't really show anything that's that bad. That's maybe not the best way to say it.

But realistically, what we're looking at is a guy who is very likely, though I guess maybe not definitively intoxicated at that point, talking to the cops that arrested him at a very high moment in his life, and saying some things that aren't great. I'm not entirely sure what all he said because some of it was bleeped out, but I have to imagine, giving that they weren't bleeping out the F-bomb, that what they were bleeping out wasn't awesome.

But he is mostly not doing anything like, he's certainly not doing anything as bad as what he was accused of doing at the time, and they did not see fit to sanction him or do anything. And so from what I saw in the video, I'm not sure. I don't think that this is going to be the thing that's like, oh, we got to rain John in. He got arrested. People getting arrested is almost never pretty. And it often looks a lot like this. So, you know, I think we're just, we're here. This is the room. We all see it. We'll notice it and kind of move on. You agree with that, Sean? You think Dana will just be like, yeah,

rough video. Hopefully he moves on with his life and he's good to go. And hopefully we can get him in the Octagon 2022 at some point. Yeah, I do. Because ultimately, I mean, a lot of people have mentioned this is an incident that isn't new, right? This is an incident that was all the way back in September. It's already been sort of legislated out through the court system. We already sort of have the resolution from all of this. This is just another unfortunate sad, maybe chapter addition to it, addendum to it. I mean, God, man, because I've, Jed, you mentioned the editing of the video. I've seen the unedited video and the stuff that they edited out is just him kind of calling the cops crackers and he drops another racial slur at one point in it it it's just it's a bad look man i mean the

hard stuff and just all of it is in a hall of fame and it keeps saying this my hall of fame night it's just a really incredibly rough look and and again i i do dearly hope that this is sort of the rock bottom that we have finally reached for john jones because man that is just such a tough video to watch. I do want to touch on one other thing and then we'll move on, Sean, because there's been quite a bit of debate about this video coming to light, the coverage of it. Now, I feel confident that if something like this happened in the NBA or the NFL or Major League Baseball in a new video surface like this, the media in those sports absolutely would have covered it, especially if it's with one of the sports bigger stars. But the debate in our space has been, why cover it,

Why post it? It happened in September. It's not news. You're just doing it for clicks. Your click baits, which we have certainly forgot as a society what that word actually means these days because it's thrown around so loosely. But, Sean, I mean, you hold a title of deputy editor at MMA fighting. You are a highly respected voice in the space. I think everybody watching this can agree with it.

So I wanted to see if you'd be willing to discuss this and sort of talk the decision to post this video. Sure. Just in terms of the merits of whether it is worth sort of putting it out there for the public, is that sort of what you mean? Exactly. Yeah, it's this happened in September. We need to move on. Why are we putting this out now?

Sure. I mean, ultimately it was the Las Vegas Review Journal who made the decision to publish it this week. I mean, it wasn't us who broke it. But I do think it speaks to this whole conversation because it has been a conversation that's hard to ignore, right? We've all seen sort of the people who're saying, why are you putting this out right now? it speaks to the inherent nature, I think, of transparency with these sort of incidents. And this is sort of maybe how we started the discussion where I certainly didn't enjoy watching it, a big part of me, certainly wishes I hadn't watched it. And if you do to enjoy watching it,

and if you are somebody who enjoyed watching, I question you're just morality as a human being that you could revel in something like this. I mean, you're seeing someone at one of their lowest points and it's sad, even if you don't like John, it's a really sad thing to watch. But there's a reason ultimately why these sort of videos are released, right? Because when we do get a police report for an incident like this, ultimately it's just the police's side of the story, right? And this opens up a whole different conversation, a whole different discussion, I think a far more complex discussion regarding the job of police and the work they do. But if all we had to do was rely on the police report, there's a lot of room in there for dishonesty, for taking liberties with the

truth and that sort of thing because you can't just inherently believe anybody's side of things. You can't believe the police's side of things. You can't believe the victim's side of things. You can't believe, you know, the offender's side of things. You have to sort of see video of how the interaction win, how the incident actually went down to actually completely understand what happened. So when you first hear back in September that John Jones head butted a police car and Jed alluded to this, okay, I mean, that could mean a lot of things, right? It could, it could mean John did exactly what we ultimately ended up seeing him do, or it could mean something very different depending on the context of the interaction and how it actually played out.

So, I mean, no one revels in these sort of videos, but they do exist for a reason. And I certainly understand why they are considered newsworthy, because when you do see the video, it feels to me that the incident takes on a very different form, in particular with a situation like this, where it is that nebulous sort of wording that we got in September of John Jones headbutts a police car. What does that exactly mean? anything to add to that jed no i mean i think sean nailed it i'll to add i'll go further and say everything sean said is correct if for no other reason specifically the headbut is like extremely

relevant because again i alluded to this earlier and sean touched on it there was a legitimate part of my brain that thought what why is he headbutting a car what does that look like did he headbutt a car or did a cop smash his head into a car and they're saying he headbutted it because that's excessive force or like what like what is the context and now we have it and like I said it wasn't anything untoward there's maybe a sinister reading for John's actions there but I don't even think there's that it it is the

the most innocuous of the possibilities that that event could have been of a probably drunk guy kind of not not doing well with a really bad moment in time. And so if for nothing else it's relevant for that, I did not realize, though I kind of suspected that the things that were removed from the edited version were not, obviously weren't great, but I think it's totally relevant that John Jones said racial slurs. That seems extremely relevant to me. So, you know, these, I think it's obviously relevant. I'm not some type of great compass of journalistic quality, but I don't.

I also just don't really care about the people who are like, this has, this doesn't mean anything. Like, okay, you don't care. That's fine. You don't have to look to it. Yeah. I mean, it's rough to start a show talking about this, but it is. For real, my. It's a new story.

I mean, it's a new story. But I wanted to get it out of the way first. We could talk about other things. But like I said earlier, and I go back to this point for multiple reasons, the UFC has become a major organization in the sports world. It sold for $4.2 billion, not that long ago. They're on ESPN. There's always the hope of Dana White and the UFC that this would be the biggest sport in the world to be right up there.

And even beyond the NFL's and the NBAs and all the major sports and all the major sports leagues. And when you get there, the spotlight is just bigger. TMZ, these other sites, they're on the streets, falling you around. Like, that's what happens in sports. And stars get the shine. And they're under the microscope a lot more. Anytime Connor McGregor does anything good or bad or tweet something, it has become news in 2022.

It just is. That's the world we live in. And that's sports. That's what happens in your star. And it sucks that we're talking about it. It's just how it is. And whether you agree with it or not, here we are. But we're going to go ahead and move on to another topic and try to get a little positivity on here.

We're going to move on to multiple topics, all meshed into one because this past weekend was a very busy one. A little potpourri of weekend combat sports action. We had UFC Vegas 48, big win for Jamal Hill, vicious knockout of Johnny Walker. We had Bellator 274, capped off with a big win for Logan Storley over Neiman Gracie, fight turned it up to be a barn burner after a couple of rounds. Andre Koreshkov with a brutal finish. A finish so brutal, we didn't even realize how brutal it actually was watching it

live and then BKFC had Knucklemania 2. We saw the debuts of Mike Perry, big win for him. We saw Chad Mendez make his BKFC debut and get a big finish. Just some crazy fight. So busy night, Jedmishu. So two-part question for you as we move on here, which promotion won the weekend in your opinion and which fighter won the weekend in your opinion?

I mean, the real answer is knucklemania won the weekend. So Bear Knuckle won the weekend because they did. I'll let Sean talk to this more because he probably knows numbers better than I do. But people were way more interested in that than they were in either the bell to or the U.S. So from a brass tax nickels and dime standpoint, BKFC won the weekend handily. I guess by virtue of that, then Mike Perry won the fight, but probably not like,

probably even from them. I still haven't seen it. I'm probably not even going to watch it at this point. Chad Mendes seems to have had the coolest thing that happened there. But for me and for let's go with the not metric-based winning of the weekend, I think Jamal Hill, probably is the guy who wins the weekend, just because he's in a main event,

knocked out a, according to the UFC's rankings, top 10 fighter in the first round. So that's it. But in my heart and in my soul, the true answer, the one that I believe, is Andre Koreshka,

because one, spinning back at Kio, incredible stuff. Two, he almost killed chance rank on, I can't pronounce his name. He'd like six busted ribs and a punctured lung, and Chance had to get like a bunch of steel plates put into his body to keep his body from collapsing in on itself, all in less than a minute. And three, his mic work was sublime.

Afterwards, he gets on the mic and he's like, hey, man, I want to fight Paul Daly. I want to fight him in London. I'm not afraid. I don't want to fight a grapple. I want to fight a dude who's going to throw hands. Let's go do it. And Bellator was like, hell yeah, let's do that. And now that I don't know if that's official or if that's just being targeted,

but I mean, you can't draw it up any better than Andrei Koreshkov's weekend. Got in one minute, spectacular Kato that we wrote about after the fact even because he shattered everything the chance had in his body. Called his shot is getting his shot 10 out of 10 for Andre Koreshkov. That is a terrific answer, Jed, with Koreshkov, because you're right. makes the call out two days later he gets the fight and that fight is official for london so good on him well done and get the fight happen like within the week after you made it and it's not a fight that everyone knew like if islam goes out there and he taps bobby green we'll talk about that

and it's like i want a lightweight title shot and then they say yeah we're going to give him a like everyone knows that's what's coming nobody was like and d'rae koresh got's going to try and fight Paul Daly. And he was like, I want this fight. And also was like, hell yeah, book it. Which, by the way, by the way, what a G. Paul Daly is. Like, my God, man, that dude is on his way out. Like, he was already ready to retire like a couple of years ago.

He's ready to take this retirement fight. And he could easily just be like, nah, man, give me somebody good. Like, give me somebody easy that I can just murk in, you know, England and just have my hometown fans really go crazy and just have a party for me and sort of celebrate on my way out. no man i'm gonna fight the dude who just broke like six ribs and filled the long half full with blood in like 38 seconds or whatever it was like what a gangster paul daly is still taking on all comers even on the very very way out man i i love that guy so much like they're you know they don't make them like paul daly anymore i absolutely love it uh but no jess right i mean bkfc won the weekend

like if you were just being up front with between the three events like one event generated significant interest on, I think, majority of websites and the other two events didn't combine to even reach that interest of the other event. I mean, BKFC, everybody seemed to be most interested in BKFC. They sort of had the circus environment. They always kind of have the circus environment, but people love the circus. Also, there was some intrigue there, right? Like Chad Mendez, we hadn't seen Chad Mendez in a really long time. People forget how damn good Chad Mendez is. Like, Chad Mendez is one of the best in the world and has been for years. And it was cool just seeing him back and uh i mean he was uh he was looking thick man that dude has been working out quite a bit

since we last song uh he merged to that dude that was excellent to watch uh hey man you said it not me uh and the mike perry fight it too i mean that's just perfect matchmaking like that's if you sign mike perry to your promotion and you're a bare knuckle boxing promotion and then your first thing is to throw him up against the the let me bang bro guy like that's just that's chef kiss matchmaking right like that's perfection um and so i mean obviously louis palomino as well i i was there in phoenix for both of palomino's fights against justin gaethe and those are still two of the most raucous arenas i have ever been in inside my entire life and i think there's maybe like four hundred a thousand people maybe inside those arenas and it was just madness i love that man

forever because of that but just in terms of a one person who won the weekend i have to agree i think jemal hill i mean i guess jed kind of audible to koreshkov but to me it was jemal hill because we, Jamal Hill became sort of transition from one of those guys who's been on the periphery of this division someone who we sort of always kind of knew would be someone and he was sort of just stuck in that pending right?

He's been in pending for a while and now he's no longer there. Like he sort of rocketed above into whatever that next level of that division is in 205. Like he is somebody now who matters. He's somebody we're going to pay attention to. He's handled everything great since the knockout. Like the knockout itself was a highlight real knockout.

one of the craziest, like, just ways you can see a human body fall the way Johnny Walker felt, like it was kind of horrific. And some of the photos from that were just brutal, man. Like, this game is such a brutal game. But then... The stone cold stunner. Like, you just spring boring up the back. The shot like a second before Johnny actually fell against the cage when he's just kind of like falling back like this with his arms up is just gnarly, man. But then just even follow it up, right? He goes to the press conference. He's dressed to the, the nines with this sun and they're kind of like matching suits but not matching where they they kind of going together with the whole theme uh the whole thing was great and then he put out this post

i can't remember if it was a couple days ago at this point uh but just basically like ripping all the fans who who have been trying who've been jumping into johnny walkers mentions and sort of letting him know that he got knocked out just jamal hill going you know defcon one on all those fans and telling him you can't be fans of me if you're these the people doing this i absolutely love that man like endear yourself to to the true hardcores that's how you really start to build a fan base jemal hill entered last weekend as someone who i think a lot of people were maybe high on but didn't really care too much about and i think now a week later a lot of people care and are interested in what jamales hills is doing and it's totally possible in that 205 pound division with how

things are weird and just the whole title picture is weird and everything's very unsettled that this man fights for a title by the end of next year so i absolutely love it yeah he's down definitely coming into his own and we're starting. And he's one of those fighters. I'm glad the MMA hour is back because now all these new fighters are coming on Ariel's show and they're kind of like taking Ariel to task a little bit. Where you been, man? Where are you been?

And I feel like we were seeing that more and more. Monday was like the entire episode was like that. That was crazy. But I'm with both of you. BKFC won the weekend. It just seemed much more buzz. And then that buzz continued on Wednesday because the founder, the president of BKFC, David Feldman jumps on the MMA hour with Ariel,

Hawani and breaks the news that Triller has acquired a majority stake of BKFC from all I've been told, it seems to be a very lucrative deal, although exact figures are not public and cannot be thrown out. But this is some pretty big news, some surprising news for BKFC, who will still be their own entity. But the way David Feldman phrased it is, you know, this is just new partners, more money, more doors to open and things of that nature in play, which means more potential big names. coming over to BKFC. So, Sean, what was your reaction to this news?

The pairing up of Triller and BKFC. Oh, man. Kind of bummed out, if I'm being honest, because I don't know. I mean, Triller just doesn't feel like, I don't know that Triller is a good organization to rely on, if we're being honest. I mean, we're just seeing today,

there are numbers out right now. I don't know if these are factual, so don't, you can't cite me on these. But we're seeing people report that Triller lost $810.9 million in 2021, which if that number is correct, I mean, Dave Meltzer, I believe was reporting that number. And again, sorry if I'm getting this wrong, but $810 million in losses in one year. Like, that is so astounding of a number. That is so beyond impressive in its ineptitude. So I don't feel good about it. I really don't feel good.

Look, you're not going to get Feldman in the room for less than $150 million. I don't feel great about it. I bet that was a lucre-of-ass deal they signed. I mean, I hope so. I hope so for me, because they really, Feldman really, like, put his name in his reputation and his money

on the line over the last several years with an idea that I think a lot of people thought was going to fail. A lot of people probably thought it was a terrible idea. Like, why are you doing this bare-knuckle thing? And it actually ended up being kind of cool. And I actually really enjoy these events now. And I think a lot of people do, too,

as we talked about in the last segment, So I mean, hopefully this deal is a good thing for BKFC and it's something that they wanted and it's not a sign that they were running out of money or anything like that. I don't know. I'm just speculating. Hopefully it's a good thing and that means that they can, you know, start throwing their money around a little bit more because we are seeing guys who go to BKFC consistently say, hey, I'm making so much money. I mean, Chad Mendez just on the MMR this week said he made more money for his BKFC debut against the guy I had never heard of than he made for either. of his UFC title fights or the interim title fight with Connor McGregor, which I don't know if that's true, but if that's true, that's utterly crazy and good for Chadmendes. I'm glad he's making that money. The Cheddar makes it better. So hopefully, man, this is a good thing for BKFC that Triller and

BKFC have sort of been the two main non-MMA players to be really actual major players in MMA free agency over the past couple of years. We've seen them really open the coffers for some guys like Mike Perry and, you know, Junior Dos Santos over in Triller and Vitor Belfort and all the stuff they're doing. So hopefully this is more of those two joining forces and assigning good things to come for MMA free agents and, you know, guys out there being able to make that money, make more money outside of the UFC. Hopefully it's a good thing. I am not sure that it is, but I will choose to be cautiously optimistic because I like to be optimistic. Yeah, if we see more of those kinds of names and less of the Evander Holyfields of the world,

I'll be a happy camper. But Jed, what we're what were and are your thoughts on this news now because you got that look on your face and I can't wait to shut my mouth. I thought this was awesome until today. We've talked about this. I went to Jake Paul versus Ben Ascran. I was in attendance for that Triller event. And let me just say, I did not believe when it was first brought to our attention, I did not believe that Triller could have possibly lost $800 million.

four-fist to a billy in one calendar year. And then I remembered back to that trailer thing during the height of the pandemic where they didn't sell tickets. They let in like 200 Triller VIPs that won some kind of contest. And then the media. And that event was Jake Paul versus Ben Ascran. There was some boxing going on in that card as well, though I don't off the top of my head remember who was competing.

that night. But it weren't like... Steve Cunningham, right? Steve Cunningham, right? Yeah, there you go. There you go. And, but more importantly

than that, they had every major musical act of the past like 15 years there. They got Steve Urkel cutting promos to start the show about his new weed. They had Mario Lopez being up there. And I think Mario was the only sober one,

but De La Hoya was ripped out of his mind. They had, what, snoop dog, Dr. Dre, Ice Cube, Bieber. They had all this, either like the Queens of the Stone Age

or Nine Inch Nails, one of those type of band. It was an insane collection of people that had to be wildly expensive. And so then I thought, I was like, yeah, actually that tracks, that they just decided to light a billion dollars

on fire. So up until today, I would have felt great about it because, as I've said many times on this and other programs in our network, I had a great time to the trailer thing. I had a really, really fun time. They put on a great show. You've got to make a lot of noise when you're the new kid in the block, and I thought they'd done that. And they had been building to some, they'd been trying to build on something that I thought could have been cool and interesting and make a name for themselves, carve out a niche. now that I found out that they've lost almost a billion dollars in the last calendar year. On top of the like 80 mill they burned in 2020, this is horrendous for BKFC because I don't know.

I can't speak confidently to the financial state of Triller. But what I can speak confidently to is investment works when people believe you have something worth investing. And when your numbers show that you lost a billion dollars is, way tougher to get more people to be like, I would like to put money behind you. You are obviously a good steward of my of my capital. Let me invest in you, gentlemen who has lost a billion dollars in two years. This is a great place for my money to sit. So I don't know. Maybe Triller survives losing a billion dollars. Maybe they can't good on them if they do. But it seems not optimal for BKFC to be tied to what at this point I have to imagine is a sinking ship.

So, yeah, I'm sure they'll be fine in some way or another. They'll spin out and pivot when Triller dies, but I don't feel great that they're going to do a lot. This is I guess my short answer. Yeah, Triller did some very interesting things in 2021, including, I mentioned the Holyfield fight. It was supposed to be Delahoy and versus Belfort in California. And then Delahoya gets COVID. They bring in Evander Holyfield, California and Andy Foster and the fine folks over there.

Like, no friggin way are we letting this guy fight in our state. So they moved the entire event to Florida. And on a week's notice, and we get the fight. And we get Donald Trump and Donald Trump Jr. And Mario Lopez is there. We got all these music elect. I'm sure Donald Trump is a real cheap sign. Oswald is in the food.

United States. Yeah, they Mazdol, GTS the booth. I do love Andy Foster's role in all of that, too, because he already took the L on Chuck L. V. Tedl three, like a couple years ago. And I love that Andy just at this point, like, nah, man, like, I'm never doing that again. Like, I got ripped to hell for that.

He learned a lesson. Yeah. Yes, we grow and we evolve, and in California did the right thing. Last thing on this, David Feldman also said that they're going to try to make it with this new money, that they're going to try to make a play potentially for Francis and Gano if the time comes. But also, Jed, he teased a big signing or two coming over the next couple of days.

So any guesses who that might be, Jed? Any guesses on these big free agents that could be coming over to the world of bare-knuckle fighting? I mean, it just has to be Tyler Mowdly, right? Like, he's the most obvious person. They're not going to get Francis and Ganoe. I think good on Feldman. Like, that's a thing that you say because it's a thing. you're supposed to say.

But if I don't think Ingan is coming back to the UFC, but if he doesn't, he's very obviously going to go fight Tyson Fury, who is extremely into that fight for obvious reasons. And so he's not going to go sign with BKFC and then do that. So. Oh, my God. Can you imagine?

Can you imagine, though? I mean, I would be here for it. Don't get me wrong. I would watch the hell out of bare knuckle, Fran Singon, who just throw myths with, people. I'm all day, but, uh, that is how someone dies. That is how you kill a man in bare knuckle combat. Like, the idea of the person, like, I want to meet the person who's going to sign up

to take a bare knuckle punch from Francis and Gano at full speed. Like, let's let's have, let's like, let this happen. Let's let Francis and Gano sort of get his boxing warm up before Tyson Fury against some can and BKFC, right? Like, let's just give him the bag. If, if they got that triller money where they're blowing a billion dollars in a year like they clearly don't care about money at all let's just do it let's let's feed uh francis and godu someone and let's just really go full circus let's give him a big fat guy maybe like really hairy chest really hairy shoulders and let's just see frances wail on this dude like i'm here for the circus man that sounds ridiculous i will buy that tonight the i mean look i'm i would watch it the reality is we're never

going to see Francis Ngano hit anybody more violently and devastatingly than when he decapitated Alistair Overeign. It's maybe the single greatest punch that's ever been in combat sports. And so glove, no glove. Like, you could give me a baseball bat and I could not put that level of a shot on Alistair O'Reem with a baseball bat. So it's not going to be any worse than that is all I can say. So I'm in.

We can watch and beat anybody because it's not going to be worse than the Overeign G.O. The only way it is worse is if it is that exact same shot, but bare knuckle. Someone's head just launches into orbit. Like, that's it. Like, you get a 5-8 heavyweight and it's just like it's done. But then, well, you get a 5-8 heavyweight. God, that's awful.

But then also in God, you're just going to shatter his hand doing that. So, oh, that's less fun. Man, here for it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, why the hell not? We, it'd be amazing the pre-fight show for that event, no doubt about it. but a lot of buzz right now for BKFC. Very busy year for them.

A lot of cards, I think you said, I don't, yeah, I don't think they're going to Cali. That's in Florida. That's happening in Florida. That's a Florida, Wyoming. Yeah, they're going to South Dakota for that card. Yeah, give me an international waters. International waters BKFC card.

Like, God, that's it. You just sold it. In Paris? They should go to Paris for that. They get there before the UFC does. I need it on the ocean. on a card. Let's go full out.

We're fixing all these organizations on BTL, but I think they're going to do four. I think you said 42 total events for 2022. That's just insane with the international stuff that they're doing. But we'll see who these signings are. Woodley, I think, is a big possibility. Maybe JDS comes in, but we'll see if page fights for them again this year and whatever else happens, a lot of eyeballs upon them.

Now let's head to the UFC because a big fight is coming up on Saturday night. Is it Kayle-Herson? Can you imagine the freaking... Wow. That would be shocking. That would be incredibly shocking. I was going to go back to PFL and then I said, F it. BKFC, let's go.

Respect. You better. Do it now. Be able to become my favorite fighter of all time if this is happening. Get that trailer money now. You got to do it now. So the UFC's Go Home show, as I like to say, for their next pay-per-view event,

UFC 272 is coming up this Saturday. It's UFC Vegas 49 headlines by Islam Makachev, taken on the absolute gangster Bobby Green. Huge opportunity for Bobby Green. We sang his praises on the program last week in the final round, but let's talk stakes here, Sean. Originally, we were supposed to get Makachev versus Benil Daryush in the winner of that fight.

Pretty much a foregone conclusion that a title shot would be next against the winner of Oliver versus Gaichi in May, although, as we know far too well, my friend, nothing is guaranteed in this world and in the sport. So with the shakeup, Shod, do you believe a title fight is next for the winner of this fight, no matter who wins on Saturday night? Oh, man, I think my internet is just crapping out right now. Maybe go to Jed real quick.

What was the question? Were we talking about the main event? We're talking about the main event and the stakes. Will a title, is a title shot on the line no matter who wins this fight? No, not at all. I think there's a really good argument of title shot is no longer on the line now that Vinny Daryush is not fighting. I suspect that if Islamachiev goes out there and gets the job done, he will be the front

runner, certainly, to face the winner of the Oliver Gae fight coming up at 274. But I by no means think that's a foregone conclusion. Through no fault of his own, frankly, he's had a couple opponent changes. I know that Islam has been one of those guys who, frankly, just not a lot of fighters are willing to face. So it's been a tough road for him in some regards. A win over Bobby Green by the UFC's ranking still means he has like two ranked wins over Dan Hooker, who's about to be a featherweight. And at the time, Tiar Mouises, who was questionably ranked anyway.

So it's just, it's a real tough sell to put him through to a time. title fight. I mean, you can just given everything else and he gets the Habib bump, but it's by no means ridiculous to be like, hey, you need to at least beat one top five guy before, before you get a title fight. And I suspect, quite frankly, that regardless of how the, the lightweight title, actually, maybe no. If Charles Olivaire wins, I think he's not trying to fight Islam Makachev until Makachev gets a certified great win, certified top five win. I think if Oliver defends his belt, he is going to push as hard as he possibly can for a fight with Conradger. And I don't blame him for it.

It's obviously ridiculous, but you got to get the bag while you can get the bag. And I just think that's what Oliver has done. He's already laid some of the groundwork for that. And so I suspect that that is probably actually what will happen if those circumstances play out. If Gachi wins, I can see Gachi being a little more interested in the Machchyev fight. A ersatz rematch with Habib. Gachy has been pretty open about caring less about fighting Connor and more about legacy and doing the things correctly. I still think he would fight Connor and maybe I'm totally wrong.

And if he wins, he'll just call out Connor. But I think there's more likelihood that a win for Machchiev gets him. Bobbi Green wins. He ain't getting a title shot. That's just not a thing that's happening. He'll be a top five fighter in good form. He's been trying for his whole career to do that. But there's just no chance he sneaks his way into a title fight here.

So a tremendous upset and great for him. He might sneak his way into a title eliminator next, but he's not won and dunning to have belt with the win this weekend. What do you think about that, Sean? Because if Bobby Green goes out there and finish, is Islam Makachev in the first round. Let's just say he goes out there and just bolts him and knocks him out in the first round.

You're telling me that Dana White's not getting that question at the press conference saying, is Bobby Green going to get a title shot? And Dana White isn't at least thinking about it, isn't at least putting a positive spin on that in some way? Because if Connor is not in play, and Bobby Green goes out there and bolts Islam-Machachev, is there a hotter guy at 155 right now than Bobby Green?

Outside of a great, of course. What do I think? I think that was just an atrocious take by Jed through and through like that whole way i love you jett but that was just the bad take after bad take number one islam mackachev is going to get this title shot regardless if he wins like at a certain point like yeah get a top five win when it's out of this guy's control it doesn't matter at this point what would be 10 straight like there's no one else in this division who would surpass him other than the random Connor mcgregor entry which might happen but is definitely not

going to happen if islam machachev is out here winning 10 fights in a row and getting replacement main events and just still rolling with it. Like people want to see Islam fight for the title. People believe Islam is probably the number one fighter in the world in this division, which you as well, sir, who have him rank number one in our lightweight rankings. You believe that as well. I'm just saying there is a fiending within the MMA community right now

for seeing this guy get his chance. So regardless of whether it's Bobby Green or you tomorrow night, or not tomorrow, but Saturday, Islam wins. He's getting it. Like, it's happening. Whether or not Charles Olivero wants it or not. it's happening. Charles Oliver does not have the sway as a champion to be able to stop that from happening. Like he is not Cona McGregor out here being able to pick and choose who he wants.

And on the other side of him is out here. And that was the entire. Hold on, hold on. Let me, keep going. On the other side of this, Bobby Green, Green wins? Like, if Bobby Green somehow comes in here and wins this fight on one week's notice, and I don't know, I think it'd be three straight firm at that point or four straight. And the circumstances with which he would have done it, it feels very Jorge Masfidal-esque, right? Like our good friend Ariel Halwani said this as well this week, and he's 100% right. There is something happening right now with Bobby Green.

This is the perfect confluence of events that we see sometimes in this sport, very Nate Diaz-esque, where sometimes just weird stuff happens and guys fall into situations, and the perfect opportunity at the perfect moment for the perfect personality happens. And if you get that win, if you maximize that space, you can all of a sudden become a genuine person who matters, right? like a genuine, I wouldn't say star, but a budding star within this division. And Bobby Green has been killing it in these interviews.

Like, it is fascinating to watch Bobby Green speak this week. And just throughout this whole process as he's accepted this fight. And he's just going in there talking about how he's going to be a gangster coming in there and just punching Islam right in the face. Like, I think it's all incredibly intriguing. And if Bobby Green goes out there and actually lives up to what he's saying right now, if other green goes out there and beats the guy who I think a lot of us believe is probably the best fighter in this division and does. and does so handily, maybe finishes him, you know he's going to cut a crazy good promo in there.

You know he's going to kill it in the post-fight press conference. And there is a very real chance that with no one else sort of just percolating up right now at lightweight, that he gets that next shot. He might still be one fight away, but I wouldn't rule it out at all if he is able to parlay this into a Nate Diaz-esque Mazvidal-esque sort of run, where all of a sudden this guy who's been in our lives for so long and has been sort of doing this thing,

the whole way through all of a sudden everybody realizes it sees it loves it appreciates it and he gets that push i'm just saying don't rule it out it might happen jad go ahead one don't come to me like i don't know about bobby green i have been saying bobby green is going to is the next hoary moscadol for literal years i can go dig up the i'm just saying because i've said it for he is that he is the dude who has the best chance to put together a late career. Jorge Mastvedol star turn. So I'm well aware. But the key thing about Mastradol is Mastradol became a star when he need Ben Ashton. Like that's really it. That's the thing. After he did that, Mastradol didn't get a title shot. Mossadol need Ben Ascran's face off and then he fought Nate Diaz. That's what's

coming for Robbie Green. He fought Nate Diaz because he wanted to fight Nate Diaz. He could have gotten a title shot. He fought Nate Diaz because he wanted to make that money and he knew Nate Diaz was winnable fight and then he could fight for the title afterwards and then he ended up fighting for the title twice afterwards like it was very calculated the way it worked out for masvall it wasn't because he didn't get a title shot is because he didn't want a title shot at that moment he maximized this opportunity in the best possible way that's not that's not comparable i don't recall him getting a title shot off that i don't he could have there was there was there was momentum for it to happen but he didn't even consider it because he knew he'd probably lose to kamar usman

and the Nate Diaz fights right there. You have the BMF situation. Like that was just a different, again, confluence of events that led to him making the most money he's ever made in his life over this short span. And I would say even too, before that, the Ben Ascrant thing you mentioned that that's sort of the one that rocketed him.

He was sort of percolating before that. Like he had the Darantil knockout before that. And I remember being there at Fight Week for the Ben Askron fight. Well, that's where Bobby Green's at right now. Because I remember being there at that fight week. He said the Astrid fight. Yeah. I remember being at there.

at that fight week for the Ben Ascgrim fight, and the biggest media scrum by far was around Jorge Mazvedal trying to hear what he had to say. It felt like he was on the verge of something, and it feels like Bobby is on that exact same place right now. He is. Yeah, did you hear the reception he got in Houston? I mean, he was,

he might have got the biggest pop out of anybody besides Derek Lewis on that card. It was, it was amazing to hear on television. He definitely got to be on television. For sure. And, yeah, look, I'm not saying Bobby Green won't be a This is his star turn. This is the opportunity.

So why he took it, I'm saying that if he wins, Charles O'Leiard is not going to fight him. He's going to try and fight Connor McGregor and the U.C. 's going to let him. And frankly, if Mockachev wins and Charles Lover wins, he's going to try and fight Connor McGregor. And we have a sadly deep history of people in the lightweight division stacking up 10 plus wins and not getting legitimate title shots

because Connor McGregor is just kind of around. So that's where I'm coming from, and I'm sticking with it, because I just genuinely don't. If Oliver wins, I think it's a 50-50 shot, the McGregor's the next guy up for the belt. Like, that seems extremely possible to me. Anything is possible, my friends. Anything is possible. You never know. Connor, we don't even know when Connor's going to be able to fight again.

We don't know. You're saying summer, I don't buy that at all. Maybe we see him at the end of the year. Who knows? Why wouldn't you buy summer? That seems like it checks. I don't know, man. He doesn't seem like, I don't know.

He doesn't seem in any hurry. He's not cutting the line. He's not cutting the line. Or Charles Olivera doesn't have the sway right now to be able to pull for it. I'm just saying people watching the show, one of us believes that Conn McGregor is going to cut the line and one of us doesn't. And I'll let y'all determine who is obviously incorrect based on history and monetary value. You'll see, man. I'm telling you.

It's not happening. This is not the same situation. It's not the same situation In situations in the past Bastions of moral certitude And that's not even it That's not even it's just not the same situation We'll see though

I mean maybe I'm right Or maybe I'm wrong I'm not wrong but maybe I'm wrong But I'm not really gonna see Because Mokachev and Gachi you're gonna win And so then those two are going to fight Which is all right In awesome I'm in

I'm in on that We could talk about this for another hour But let's let's move on This weekend Well, yeah. I mean, if we're talking last week, not a ton of hope and positivity on paper for last week's UFC card. It ended up being pretty solid.

We got the devastating main event finish. We got the great Jim Miller moment. By heading in, Jed, it was met what's sort of a meh reaction. How do you feel about this card? This one looks a little bit better, does it not? This card, this card has one really, really great thing going for, and it's that it's 11 fights. beautiful number if one of those falls off and frankly we've got a pretty good chance because

Joel Averaz isn't a lightweight and can't ever make the lightweight limit so there's like a decent chance he just blows weight tomorrow and that fight comes off which sucks because that fight is probably the best fight on the card if the main event isn't but 10 is an optimal number so we're pretty close to 10 for this fight card so that's great and there's some really compelling bouts there are a lot of bouts there are a lot of bouts that's that either aren't compelling on the merits of their own or just because they don't mean anything. Like, neither fighter is going to be a relevant person in their division. So it's really similar to last week's card, only it's got a much more intriguing main event.

And maybe the next two fights off that top spot are slightly better or more intriguing. But we're in the same ballpark as far as quality there. Sean, your thoughts on Saturday's offering from the ultimate fighting championship. I mean, it's okay. It's a fight night, right? Like we, at this point, I feel like we know what to expect with a fight night. The main event is sick. I'm super, super intrigued with the main event.

The rest of the card has some hits and some misses, but it definitely has enough intrigue for me to be interested in to watch. I mean, you have Armin Saruki and your boy, Mike. He's out here. He's back. Joel Aver is like, that's a great fight. Misha Sorkinov at Meshah. weight. That's, you know, interesting. And also Terrence McKinney, who is somehow buried on the prelims

here, which I don't understand how Priscilla Cacruera, who just last time we saw her was gouging eyeballs, how she's on the main card. And you have Terrence McKinney out here, just slumming it on the prelims. Like, that's ridiculous. I'm way more interested to see Terrence McKinney do what he's going to do and try to follow up that, I believe, what it was like seven seconds last time in his UFC debut. Like, that's put Terrence McKinney in that spot. But whatever. Like, there's enough on this card for it to be interesting. And I'm certainly looking forward. to it. Again, that main event is just, it's perfect. With what the UFC had to work with, I'm looking forward to it. 100%. I love the Sarukian-Alvarez fight on an island. It's not getting

enough attention. Everyone is aware. No one has been higher on Armand-sur-Ukian over the years than I have been. And now we're going to see it come possibly to fruition. And like Jed said, Alvarez, very good fighter, big finisher. Hopefully he does make weight tomorrow. We're knocking on that wood right now. he's not going to. That dude's a middle weight. Like, I'm not kidding. That dude is a middleweight competing at lightweight. He's bigger than Darren Till.

He's like 6'3 and thick. Like, and he's only getting bigger. It's not like you get smaller as you age. Like, that dude needs to be a welterweight. And I strongly think he's going to be one. Like, he's going to be like an Anthony Johnson guy who, when he finally does bump up a weight and no longer is like spending every moment of his life trying to keep his weight under control. he's going to immediately not be able to keep his weight at welterweight and just become a middle weight.

He's going to blow weight at Walter weight as soon as he goes up to. I'm actually like genuinely surprised the UFC's letting him do it again. Because like it's already twice in a row, right? Like it's twice in a row that like two times ago it was 150.59.5. Last time was 157.5. So he's like inching his way there. He's progressively getting there. Maybe this time he'll actually get there.

but I'm actually shocked they're letting him do it because you're 100% right. He's like 6-3. He's a giant dude. There's no reason he should be a lightweight. He is the biggest lightweight in the UFC. Like if you count him as a lightweight, he is undoubtedly to me the biggest lightweight in the UFC.

That dude has to come in at like $195 on fight day. He's enormous. Well, hopefully he makes weight. He'll probably weigh 151 tomorrow and we'll all be eating our words. But before we turn the page, to UFC Vegas 49 on Saturday. We got some daytime MMA tomorrow with our good friends at Bellator MMA, Bellator 275 in Dublin, Ireland.

We'll definitely get a fired up crowd as always, and they will see the middleweight championship defended in the main event as Gaygar Moussasi defends his crown against the number one contender, the undefeated Austin Vanderford. Jed will start with you. I know how highly you think of Gagard Musassi with his interviews, and he's just such a great person. personality for the sport. He was on fire on the MMA hour on this three-fight winning streak.

Just finished John Salter in his last fight. He feels like he's the best he's ever been. Feels like he can hang with the best middleweights in the world. Are you excited for this fight? Are you genuinely excited to wake up tomorrow and think to yourself, hey, in a couple hours right now, we're going to get this Bellator event. We're going to see a Gaygar-Musassi title fight against Austin Banderford. I mean, it's fine. How dare you, sir? I know. This is ridiculous. I'm not to let you let you cook, Sean, because I'm going to say some things that you're going to hate. Because I recognize that I am, I'm on an island here, but I've just staked new ground that's correct, and y'all are going to catch up to me a little bit.

I currently have Gar-Musasi ranked as the number three middleweight in the world. It is probably the only ranking that I made that I do not agree with via my standards of ranking, which is, primarily based around the fact of trying to order people who would beat other people. Not what they've accomplished, but if they fought tomorrow, how do I think they're going? I do not think Gagard Musassi is probably even the top five middleweight at this point in time. I recognize that Sean is probably such flames coming out of his ears right now. But Gaggard is one of, if not the most talented and skilled middleweights in the world. right now. Geigard is also 36 going on 107 because he has been competing for 20 years and has like

58 fights or some astronomical number not counting his ventures into amateur boxing and kickboxing. Like he is an unbelievably talented skilled fighter. He also, it's not like he was burning the house down against washdash Leoto Machita like not that long ago. So, I think in my head, I don't believe Austin Vanderford does that go to fight it. And Austin Vanderford is primarily a grappler, which I think favors heavily what Gayguard is still really good at doing and still has the athleticism to do. So I favor Gaygard to win this specific fight. But I think that if he were, if he got whatever, they traded into the UFC tomorrow, I want him to immediately get a title fight because I'm, I don't think, I think you're playing with fire to ask him to beat Marvin Vittori.

Like, he is just, he's not that old, but he is that old because he has so many miles on him. And like, I don't know, he didn't blow the doors off Douglas Lima. He beat him convincingly, but Douglas Lima is a career welterweight. And Gaggard couldn't, Gaggart fought up to 205 and couldn't get him out of there. Like it's just, I have a lot of questions about where he's at physically and where he's at at this stage of his career. And so I will watch because I have a great appreciation of what Gagard has done. But I think there's really strong argument that he is not a top five middleweight in the world right now. Based on if they fought tomorrow, he certainly is based on accomplishment, which is why I have him ranked there.

Sean, have at me. Go, buddy. I know you want to do it. He's getting redder and redder. I just, I'm so disappointed in you, Jed, because you're someone I respect, you're someone I enjoy listening to. I feel like you generally have very well thought outtakes and you have good, interesting, you know, perspectives on things. But how can you dare sit up there and disrespect the legend of Gagar Musassi, this absolute gem of a man who has done so much for us in this space? Gengar Musasi is one of the most interesting, fun, exciting people in the whole industry.

I love that man so much. And you're sitting here poking holes. You're sitting there poking holes in a resume that basically is undefeated since 2016. Like he has the one loss to Raphael Lovato Jr. back in 2019. That was a majority decision that some people could say was a bad decision. Other than that, that dude has not done anything but win. and he's won decisively for the most part outside of a few random ones

where it feels like he just couldn't get up for it. Like sure, you want to throw the Liotto Machita. You want to throw the Liotto Machito. You want to throw the Liotto Machita one out there, that's fine. You know, some people look, it's hard to look good against Liotomachita, no matter how old he is. Like, it's Liotomachita.

Regardless, Gagar Musassi is still out here doing the damn thing like he's been doing for years. He is so much fun and he's so interesting. and if he wins this fight, he's going to end up just going up and waiting and fighting the winner of the 205 pound Grand Prix. And that alone is interesting enough itself. Him versus Nemcoff, Corey Anderson, sign me up for that. Gagar Musassi is an absolute legend and I will not stand for any moose slander on this on the show at all. That's ridiculous.

You should lose five wins off your BTO record right now. Casey, I want to see you drop five wins off Chesswit. Because this is ridiculous what I'm hearing. I never said anything about the man. I love the man. He's a great interview. I just said that Marvin Vittori, who isn't like a technical genius, but is a hulking tank of a dude, probably just walked down and put mitts on him for 15 to 25 minutes. Thank you, Casey. This is why I'm wrapping an all-el-el-el-a-lose shirt today. But the real people know, tomorrow, I'm a lot like a genius. And I don't even think it's great. I think he's got a better, since I'm not doing a gambling column from Bellator. if I was betting money tomorrow, I would bet money on Austin Banderford is all I'm saying.

I think that that's fade the old guys in MMA. It's a historically great betting plan. I see Gary Trammell out here in the chat saying Sean equals disappointed father. And that's just it's it's, I don't even know that that's enough. Like that's not like I, I'm profoundly disappointed with what I'm hearing here. There is no way he just said all of that about Gagar Mastasi. It's telling me like I'm not saying he's. these bad you called him overrated one lie that i said you called him overrated you said you called

him overrated you said he hasn't had a good win in forever and that he's made not be a top five middleweight in the world that's yeah none of those are wrong they're all correct what does why don't you dry your hair once you dry your hair before you get on this program my hair is dry it's as greasy there's a difference oh man I'm just real quick I don't have the ability to have that problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got freaking Uncle Jesse over here just rocking the stylish do. Well, Sean and I struggled to look in the mirror every day.

In from a WW leave locker room, greased up, wet, watery hair. We got freaking man, man, mountain rock over here. Any other fights stand out to you, Sean, from this card? Anything wetly whistle? From what? The Bellator card? Yeah. I mean, let me, as I pull it up now.

The co-main event, Sean, before you look at it, what's... I already looked at it. I already looked at it and I wouldn't have gotten it. No, no other point would stand out to me. But Gayguard. Gayguard is enough. What about you, a Jed? Anything?

Or is this a one-pack card for you? I have some marginal interest in Haasn Magrameh Chiarpavov, Jose Sanchez, because Magrived Charapov I'd be like, okay. But he's still really early in his career. So nothing. I mean, Brett Johns is usually at least kind of in fun fights. But no, this is one fight card, man.

This is a one fight and Irish card. Like, this is a local card. This is for the peoples. Hopefully someone just walks out to zombie or something like that. The Irish always have such cool, like, they really stand for the pomp and the circumstances. of the walkouts if you give them the right material so hopefully someone feeds into that let me let me say though that if you're letting me broaden out i mean got we have one of the top middle weights in the

world hennier de ritter is competing at one one championship this week maybe you guys will finally come along to my side of thinking about hennier and put him in your rankings and we can start pushing the one championships straight to the top baby it's amazing it's amazing you said that because i wanted to leave us with a question that they have required a little bit of thought of because we had a lot of card we had a lot of cards this weekend we have one kfl challengers we get lFA uae wars ksw and i'm probably missing some other ones and i was going to ask like what the most under the radar storyline of this entire weekend in mama was and i feel like we got jed's answer with the double champ trying to continue on here.

But what do you think, Sean? What's storyline for any of these events is just not getting enough attention that you're really interested in? That's tough because we've already talked about a lot. I mean, to me, if I'm being honest, it probably is Terrence McKinney. Because again, just him being so buried on a card

that is a C plus card, like it would be minus card. Like him, he is a fascinating guy in the space and he might be, you know, one of the most intriguing lightweight prospects in the whole entire sport. We saw his debut. It was spectacular. He is a crazy story.

Like if you actually look into his story, it is really impressive what he's overcome to get to this point. And he's making a lot of noise himself. He has really actually been, he's done an incredibly good job at promoting himself. The UFC hasn't really promoted him that much. And again, burying him on this card isn't really doing him many favors.

But I'm really interested to see where this goes and sort of how the story plays out. To me, he's one of my most interesting, if not outside of the gay guard Islam situation. He's the most interesting thing in the whole weekend outside of that. Yeah, what a story this guy has. Give me five of three throwing them bones too. Come on. Chuck and Mitz.

KSW is just always like one of the most fun things to watch. They feel like the true spiritual successor to pride. And you're getting a KSW heavyweight championship. Like straight up, if I were to say, watch one event this week. It is going to be watched Islam Makachev, who I believe is the best lightweight in the world, and thus one of the three or four best fighters in the world.

But if you took away that, give me KSW, because the pomp, the circumstance, and two big boys, Chuck and Mitz, man, that's what I'm here for. I love that game. Dude, I am, one of my, sorry, Mike, one of my stories that I still want to do at some point in my career is to just go to Poland and be in the arena,

for just a giant, you know, whatever one of the biggest, biggest possible KSW shows and just be fly on the wall and sort of do a feature like that, sort of reporting from the scene. Because I agree. They are almost basically the spiritual successor to pride. Like it seems so cool the production and just all the elements that go into their show. 100%. My low-key storyline is also coming from KSW. And you're going to see it on M-A fighting very soon. Roberto Saldik is my low-key storyline, who is not.

fighting this weekend, but he and his team will be sitting down with the KSW head honchos on Sunday, and they're going to present KSW with an offer of what they want. And if they accept, he will stay. If not, or they don't count it with something he really likes come this summer, Robocop's going to be a free agent. He's got one fight left. His contract expires in mid-July. And if he goes to free agency, oh my gosh, there's going to be.

Everyone's going to want that guy. Everybody. Every single person. He's already got a bunch of good offers, too. I hope they don't. I hope they don't accept his terms because I want him out there. I want him free as a bird to do some wild shit out here because I 100% agree. Give me Soldick versus Vicente Lucke tomorrow.

Give me that fight tomorrow at 100,000. That's it. That's it. We just need to end the show there because we're not topping it. You're right. You're 100% right. man can we get velator and ksw and one and rising to just do a super bowl event once a year because like soldick versus koreshkov or daily or anybody would just be just hits

give me all that type of stuff because they don't have people actually fighting their own ords give us good shit like that's do a big multi-organization grand prix just a big pure hitters hitters on yeah i love it would be Also, do you have any idea how excited I would be for that? God, that would be the best. That would be the best. And I had the best time with you and everybody watching right now. We are done.

We've gone a little over time, but that's okay. We had some spirited conversations, some spirited debates. And we all won. We're all the winners for being a part of it. So thank you very much for everybody watching. One second, Mr. Hapley. Wait, hold on. Who actually won?

We have our, we have our unofficial fan results for our exhibition. Oh, I forgot. We had fan results. I bet I lost because everybody's in. I didn't even think we were doing that. So a surprise, a surprise here. So who got the fan results? So let me close the, get your votes in. Bunch of moose stands.

Damn straight. Don't disrespect the legend. When Bannifer wins tomorrow, it's going to be both sad and really happy for me. And today's winner from the fans, winning by 52% of the vote is Wow, another close one. The Moosasi stand. Let's go!

Let's go! I'm the champ. I'm the real champion. You catered so shamelessly to the fans with the move stanery. It's still only one by 52%. All I'm hearing is a fake champ who is already a fake champ

becoming even more of a fake champ. That's what I'm hearing. We got to do a real deal battle next week. We got to run it back for the pro for reals. I just never get to fight Phoenix. I'm just saying I have three wins on this program and two of them are over that guy.

You're calling the champion. Wow. I mean, he ran through the gauntlet. He ran through the tourney. This is like a tough win. It doesn't count. It's an exhibition. It's not on the record.

So you have two wins on this program. I don't remember who your first loss is to, but one of those elves is to me, Kamar Ustman Breakout Fire in the Year. that was like a team that was a tag team that was me taking both you and Jose out just

I'm just saying Casey Casey Can you add the three to the record there just for me Well I have zero wins According to Casey now We can't get out of the show We can't get out He played the exit music

I heard I did the exit music I did the exit music I did the exit music Play it again Yes All right Take us out, Mr. Heck. Ah, what a show.

For Sean, for Jed, for Casey on the ones and twos. Thank you for watching. I'm Mike. We'll see you next week once again, between the links. Good night, everybody. The iconic voice takes you home. This has been Between the Links. I'm Esther Lynn.

Jedmishu sucks. I'm the chair. We're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network.