MMA Fighting - BTL | Jon Jones RETIRES, Ilia Topuria vs. Charles Oliveira, UFC 317, More

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Even before the UFC could get to UFC 317 fight week, Jon Jones gave the MMA world plenty of headlines after Dana White announced that Jones notified the promotion of his retirement, and that Tom Aspinall has been promoted from interim to undisputed UFC heavyweight champion. On top of that, Jones had another alleged run-in with the law, which seemingly paints a tougher picture with each day that goes by. On an all-new edition of Between the Links, the panel reacts to the shift in the UFC's heavyweight division, Jones' retirement and what he leaves behind in the sport, and Aspinall's promise to get the division out of the mud. Additionally, topics include UFC 317 this Saturday, Ilia Topuria facing Charles Oliveira for the vacant lightweight title in the main event, where Topuria goes with a win — or a loss — on Saturday, Jake Paul competing on Saturday againsT Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. and the lack of buzz for the event, and more. Join MMA Fighting's Mike Heck and Jed Meshew as they answer your questions all show long. Follow Mike Heck: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@m_heckjr⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Jed Meshew: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@JedKMeshew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Subscribe:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/dYpsgH⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our full video catalog: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/u8VvLi⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Visit our playlists:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ http://goo.gl/eFhsvM⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Like MMAF on Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/uhdg7Z⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow on Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://goo.gl/nOATUI⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Read More: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.mmafighting.com⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to the Vox Media Podcast Network. From MMA Fighting Studios, this is Between the Links. And now, your host, my... The iconic voice of Esther Lynn welcomes you to a brand new edition of BTL. Happy Thursday to us all. I actually can't remember the last time we did this show on a Thursday. It's been a bunch of Tuesdays in a row. I have a feeling next week's show will be on a Tuesday as well,

but we'll play that by year. Much like we're doing on today's program. There's so much happening right now. You guys had a million questions. The DMs have been blowing up ever since UFC Baku came to an end. Now probably the most forgotten card in UFC history with all the John Jones news. John having just an absolutely insane week. Tom Aspinall being the undisputed UFC heavyweight champion per Dana White.

We got UFC 317. It's International Fight Week. Jake Paul's fighting and no one he knows about it. PFL has a card and as always nobody knows about it. So much happening in the world of mixed martial arts and combat sports. And joining me to answer your questions and discuss all of this news is Mr. No Gray area himself, the hot take kid, the climber of all climbers, the co-host of the NBA Fighting Watch Party. He'll be at the CASA on Saturday, the one and only Jed Michoud of MFFiting.com.

Hello, Jed. How we doing? How we feel it? I don't feel amazing. We were just talking about it. I'm a little nauseous. I don't really know from whence the stems. It could be that when I worked out this morning, I was simply too strong for my own body, and it's rejecting that.

I suspect that's not the case, but otherwise, excited to talk about a really good fight card because that's what we have on Saturday, a really good fight card. Yes, I'm very excited for UFC 317. I'm very excited for the main event. The two title fights. The whole main card is very interesting,

and there's other nuggets on the prelims that I like, as well. So we're going to have some fun today and joining us for the fun as well. I like a lot of the prelims too, man. Yeah, I think once we get to ESPN. Well, yeah. The early prelims are. I mean, there's, there are pieces of the very early prelims that I'm interested in. But like, we, we should have one fewer fight on this card outright. Right. And like, we could, you know, like, the others aren't necessary. But I am at least, like, and we'll get into it, I'm sure. I, I have.

have curiosity about some of the very, very early prelim fights. Yes. And Casey is here as well. No sleeves needed on this Thursday. There he is to take your questions and discuss this wildsport us. How we doing Casey? Oh, okay. Hey, I have a question for you.

Oh. This is for you is Operation Ivy is the greatest band with only one album. Yeah, I'll go for that. I mean, there's certainly in the conversation. That album is, is a heap. Yeah, you can throw it on any day and like go, oh, this song's my jam and the next song comes on. Oh, wait a minute. Never mind.

This song's my jam. It's like 27 straight songs of gas. It's fire. Dude, I found this album when I was 14 years old and it changed my life. Changed my life. I also probably found that album around that age, though those are not going to be concurrent timelines for us. It was through the Green Day route, by the way. discovered that's a thousand percent how i

then you look at the back of the liner notes they get and they thank bands you go who's this op ive and then that's how it works keep going dukey is the first album i ever knew all the words to was my first like favorite album and that's 100 percent how i found operation ivy may i might have found rancid before i found op ivy actually not i'm old enough i'm i'm slightly I'm like, I was actually around when Rancid was like there. So like, yeah. That's amazing that you know all the words to a Green Day album because I can't, even to this day, I can't understand half the words that come out of his mouth. I know all the words to almost every Green Day album.

Like still. And like, I don't listen to them that much anymore. But like, I do give you my first favorite album. Um, Insomniac was the life-changing album. Nimrod was like, in warning were good. They weren't great albums. And then when American Idiot came out, I was like, that was right when I was in high school. I was like, oh, Green Day is still good because I was listening to Green Day after the fact functionally.

I was like, oh, this album also kicks ass. And I know that they have dropped like at least three albums since then. And I have not kept up past American Idiot. But I could 100% still give you every lyric to Duky and Insomniak. And maybe I could do Nimrod warning. I'm not sure about that. Yeah. Green Day, like 90s music, like especially with Green Day,

you could just mumble words and everyone's like, oh, I know what you're singing. And then if it's like a hooty in the blowfish or a yacht rock song, you could just like the movie Ted, just singing vowels and everyone will think you know the words of the song. So, A-I-O-U. Let's go to the questions. What do people want to talk about?

Maybe they want to talk about Green Day or Operation Ivy or hooting the bullfish? The world is your oyster. Super chatters get to the front of the line, but I'm excited. We have a lot to talk about. Mori Moment. First BTL since Joan retired and Thomas Champ. Yes. Jen, it's been quite the week for John Jones, hasn't it?

First, he's... Sure has. Yeah, notifies the UFC of his retirement. We're reacting to all of this. And then, like, as soon as the reaction show kind of ended, this news of charges filed against John Jones from an incident in February of leaving the scene of an accident allegedly. And then we saw some body cam footage where John is identified by a passenger, also identified by a police officer still. These are alleged things. We don't really know for sure.

John goes on a Twitter storm. Just a very crazy week for one John Jones. And Tom Aspedal is just saying the right things of time to make heavyweight a good division again. I want to fight all the time. I want to make this belt mean something. So, Jed, your reaction to all of this since we heard from you for a brief period of time on Saturday when perhaps maybe you weren't at the non-fuzzy estate you could have possibly been in. Oh, I was definitely fuzzy.

That was real fuzzy. I went back and actually, as I was driving back from the lake on Sunday, I queued up our pod version. So I didn't watch the video version, but I queued up just to be like, did I embarrass myself? I genuinely, I was not sure how that went over. And I was like really impressed by my ability to at least look like I, or maybe not look. again, I was on camera. I could have looked terrible, but to at least not sound like I was totally out of sorts

and get like cogent thoughts out. And largely like that that's still how I feel, even with the sobering light of Monday and the sort of opportunity to really reflect on this. It's like my overarching thought is good. Like this took way too long. I just was looking at my calendar. Next week was going to be Tom Aspenov.

all at 600 days as interim champion. And I really thought we were going to get to that mark. And so like it's just, it's good that we're no longer playing this farcical game. To his very small credit, John finally shot or got off the pot. He got off the pot this time overtly. And then, you know, like this is,

it's stupid that it took this long, right? Like the UFC obviously butchered this. Tom Aspinall's father coming out and saying the way they announced it sucks is true which I did not think at the time like right because I wasn't that was like the 10th most important part of the story but like it is really shitty that they just announced oh top by the way Tom's your heavyweight champion

during oppressor in Baku and nobody asked to follow up about it just like oh by like talk about really just no selling your own belt ostensibly the title of the baddest man on the planet and it's just a throwaway to you because of sort of where they entrenched themselves in the John Jones aspect like that should have been made a bigger deal that should have been a hey uh F what you heard Friday or whatever the hell it is Dana does like now you don't know now you know Tom Aspernel the baddest man alive and instead it was really not that which is a terrible way for you to start the effect official title run for the guy who maybe will hold your belt for a long time.

Hopefully, certainly for the promotion, that would be the case. Never know at heavyweight. And so a lot of the same big picture things. And then the other thing that happened that we didn't, I didn't react to because the arrest and stuff. And we don't need, like unless we get questions, we could dive in a little deeper. My big thought about the latest John Jones legal kerfuffle is it just must. must suck to be John's lawyer.

Like you come out with the, actually the Albuquerque Police Department is unfairly targeting my client. And there's no reason to believe that it was John on those phone calls at all. And this is all a witch hunt. And then 24 hours later, John is out here tweeting, yeah, like I know I threatened those cops, but I was already agitated and paranoid. And they're cutting the footage just like owning up to the shit. Like, it has to be the most frustrating job in America to be John's attorney. Or there's, or the most consistent, or maybe the best job because that's consistent work, right?

Oh, you're getting paid. Yeah. You're getting paid, but you're going to, but like, as a person who's been in, you know, legal offices and stuff, you're just like, dude, he's, he makes it so hard. We clearly had a position. Our position was you, that's not John on the phone. This is all the witch hunt. And within 24 hours, he's like, actually, it was definitely me. But like, I was justified in threatening those cops.

Can you say that every single person that works with John probably is in the same situation that lawyers? Like, Dana, his coaches, probably his sponsor, like every single person. Whoever his PR person is. Who's affiliated John Jones is like, geez. Dude, can you just download Uber? Download Uber. It is not hard. It's so not hard.

Yeah. So, like, a couple of things that I've thought about since Saturday. And one is, my biggest question is, why did Dane even show up to this press conference? No one expected him to. We saw him like earlier in the night watching fights. And then we all assumed he just left because he had to catch a flight to New York, Fanatics Fest, the Crawford-Kinello Presser. Like, why didn't even go to that press conference?

And I wonder if, like, part of him thought, well, the normal media members who would ask me about John Jones and Tom Aspinall aren't there. So they're probably just asked about, like, Raphael Fiziv and the local fighters and things about this card in general. And then when the question was asked, Dana just kind of like let it all go. So I do wonder if Dana realized as soon as he was asked the question, like, oh, why did I even do this? Because they might have had something.

I mean, they said Tom's going to be out in international fight week. Maybe they would have crowned him before the big press conference on Friday before ceremonial weigh-ins and made a big scene of it. who the hell knows. But yeah, it was just kind of weird how it all came out and data just letting it all fly at that point. My other overarching thought was, he called you last night and told you he wasn't fighting.

He's literally been tweeting this for months that he had no interest in fighting. You're telling me this is the first phone call that John Jones has made you saying, look, I don't know how many times I have to tell you this. I'm not fighting. I do not want to fight anybody right now. I have been very public that you,

knew my plans. I've told you I don't want to fight. I just don't understand why we waited this long. And I know it's, and I think I know the answer. It's because data guaranteed something and he was going to try to do everything in this power to not be the guy who made a guarantee

and then have it not come true, even though everybody on this show and other shows that we have done have told you that this fight's never going to happen. These two guys are not going to fight each other. And if it does happen, it's not going to happen for like two or three years, if that, and it's definitely not going to happen. And then the third thing,

is I hope what John's doing next requires a lot of thought, effort, and time consumption. Because John not preparing for fights or actively being a competitor in anything scares the hell out of me. It really does. He needs something to motivate him to be the best at what he does because that's when John is at his best. And sure, he still gets himself into trouble and maybe loses focus from time to time. But with nothing, with nothing to focus on, I don't know if like dirty boxing and running that promotion is going to be enough for him to keep his eye on the prize.

But I got to say, a little bit concerned that he just doesn't have anything to really motivate him. And he's got a lot of extra free time on his hand. So, and I know these are all allegations. and until he goes to court next month, we don't really know how this is all going to play out, but just spitballing. I'm a little concerned. I don't know how you guys feel about the whole situation.

I'm not concerned, and this will take a dark turn. I have been prepared for John Jones to do something horrific and tragic for well over a decade. The fact that it hasn't happened yet, or at least has not happened insofar as we know, I can like this is not me being glib this is being just like absolutely a hundred percent honest with my my take here is like I mean one you know like we don't know that john was on the phone he admitted he was on the phone but we don't know like maybe this cut or whatever but like his statement as possibly inebriated as it was of like I'll have you killed I've done it

before not a statement that I would take lightly like we're kind of paraphrase that, I think, slightly, but like, that's like a genuine threat. And like, again, not, this is not me being glib. And I'm not making accusations because there's no evidence to support this at this point. But would anybody be super shocked if like an Aaron Hernandez turn happened for John here? Like, like, but like, would you be shocked? I don't think that that has happened. my guess is something would have been been sort of unsurfaced about this beforehand but like not a single person would bat an eyelid if that like in two years that was a headline it is that is very much in play with how he has behaved functionally his whole adult life and certainly

his whole public facing adult life like i genuinely i consider to win that this has not happened yet and I just expect it to. I hope I am wrong. It is much better if I am wrong in this instance. I don't know, man. Like you show me a kid who kills animals, you know, not like hunts a deer,

but like ends cats lives in the neighborhood. And I think, yeah, that's probably not going to end well. And that is genuinely where I'm at with John Jones. Yeah. All right. I mean,

there you have it. Yeah. it's a terribly sad state of affairs but like it is i hope i am all the way wrong i hope that his time off from the sport he can renew his faith in god or whatever gets him to a happy place but like buddy this just happens every couple of years it's some insane fucking story about john yeah i'm hoping we don't get some albuquerque version or whatever b jpins doing in ohio right now yeah yeah yeah um i guess that's the last we'll ever talk about john jones he's retired i guess we'll just move probably yeah for the next 30 seconds yeah i would can we on the retirement note

because i don't i think you asked this question and i was not in a state to sort of give you the best answer um i and i've i've certainly heard other people talk about this i don't think john's coming back I wouldn't put it at 100% because you should never put anything at 100%. But like, I need someone to tell me the path that gets John back. Because the path isn't Tom keeps winning. And John two years older is like, now it's worth it to the legacy to fight him. He's never coming back to fight Tom. Because if he was going to fight Tom, he would have fought Tom.

Right. Like he's getting older. He knows he's getting older. It is only worse for him to fight Tom next year than it would have been to fight Tom. fight him in January or whatever. So the only outline is if Tom loses to, because like if Tom loses Cyril gone, is John coming back to fight Cyril Gaon? No, he already beats Cyril gone.

There's nothing ventured or gained in that. If Alex Pereira gets the title fight and beats Tom Aspinall, it's the only universe I see Tom or John returning, and that universe does not seem very likely, John is actually retired. And I'm really, really convinced we never see him fight again. Yeah, I, I'm with you. It's going to take another Pereiro-like meteoric rise from somebody who can't wrestle or has a ground game that John can take advantage of for John to come back.

It won't be against Tom or a current fighter on the UFC heavyweight roster. unless like Derek Lewis just wins the belt and just starts to nuke at everybody and just gets even more popular. Maybe John comes back for a fight like that, but yeah, unless there's like another steep A type of fight for him

where he can win and it's like a bigish name. Yeah, I don't think he comes back either. All right. Thank you. All right, what we got? Super chat from Spencer. Hey guys, it's about John Jones. What?

I thought we were done talking about John. Thank you, Spencer. News coming out of the hit and run, same day as John Joseph tiring is the most weirdly poetic shit I've ever seen, but love hearing Tom wants to defend it heavyweight as many times he can, over under four and a half defenses for him. Like total? I assume it means total.

Are we counting Curtis Blades? I'm counting Curtis Blades. He was the rightful and true heavyweight champion. I would count it. So three and a half more. So four more to go over. Say the three. And that was like, I mentioned this month ago.

I was like part of, part of why this is stupid is like, how do we treat Tom's preexisting title run? Right? Because like theoretically, he's three fights away from setting the record for heavyweight title defenses. But you might be four because, you know, depends on how much you're crediting the blade. Like it's very, very stupid when you're talking about the historicity of things here. I will go over. It is heavyweight MMA. You should never feel massively confident.

There's a reason that three is like the current title, like consecutive title defense record. It is small margins and, you know, shit, we saw Tom's knee just explode against Curtis Blades. Like, that could absolutely happen again. Knock on wood, we don't want it to. But I don't see the man that currently competes for the UFC that is, that I would favor against Tom Aspinall right now. No, I'm going over. I think it's two before the year. is over. I think he bites... That would be incredible.

I know that he has said he wants to do that. I'll be... I just don't think that's likely. That'd be awesome if he did. Well, it would be both awesome and terrible because the faster he puts title defenses up, the sooner we're just running awful heavyweight rematches because there are only like five dudes in this way class to challenge.

Yeah. So, yeah, I'll go over. I think he wins. I think he defends it four more times. Yeah, the only thing that worries me is just injury, just a freak injury type thing. He's the guy's competed at a high level, been on the mat since what, since he's like 12 years old. That's just a lot of wear and tearing your body. So just things happen.

But assuming everything goes, he's healthy. Yeah, he should go for that pretty good. Yeah, because he was hurt. He was hurt fighting Sergey Pavlovich. He was very injured for that fight. And still won in like a little. a minute. So, yeah, just go in there, cash a check, fight for 60 seconds, and come back a couple months later and do it again. It's a beautiful thing.

Thank you, Spencer, for the super chat. All right. This is a fun. Enjoy this one, Jed. Oh, I was just answering this one in the chat. That's what we got. Wait, we got this. I didn't know if you were going to put this one up, frankly. So the question for the pod people, Jed, do you believe John would receive the same criticism if he was white? Do you believe his race plays a part in the way he is covered? I think largely, yes, he would still receive the same level of criticism.

I base this primarily on Connor McGregor is also a Stone Cold Psychopath, and he has roundly criticized all the time for his aberrant antisocial behaviors. I think John would similarly receive the same thing. I will say, and I wrote this like several years ago, This was a long time ago for, I don't know, the 12th time John got arrested for something. There is always a part of me that is a little reticent to like totally throw out the John Jones response to something because of his race and American policing. Right. And just like, you know, when John says that they're like when John's lawyers like they're targeting my client, if this was the first time, like maybe this is like the 18th time, man.

Like this is, you know, either the whole world is against him or he's against himself. And Occam's razor suggests no. And, you know, maybe he gets a little more heat from bad people like on the internet because they are racist, which, you know, there are racist fans in the sport. That's just a fact. I don't think that it's a substantive difference. I think almost everybody is universally agreed. most of the shit John does outside of the cage is terrible. Yeah, I mean, Conner's, Connor's the perfect example

because Connor gets covered for the bad shit as much, if not more than John. So I think, like even it's, it's, a lot of it has to do it just him being the best of all time more than anything else. Like, it's just the nature of the beast right now. And when John sort of handles himself in the media, for not even this stuff just for his fights and fight weeks and avoiding Tom at every cost with the microphone in his hand.

Like, the criticism just comes that way. And then it's just a domino effect. So I'm with you. Like, you can't throw it away altogether. But there is precedent said that greatness, good and bad, is covered, especially in this frigid sport. Sean Strickland, like, beats up a YouTuber. Like, that's an article. That's a write-up.

Sean says something dumb. That thing's viral on social media. It's just the way that it is. When you're popular, it comes out more. The evidence is fairly overwhelming to think that he is being criticized because of his race. I think that there was an argument. I remember making this argument at the time that stripping the title from him had some racial undertones to it. Because, and this is going to sound like I'm defending John.

promise you I'm not. It is a bit disingenuous for the argument to be like, well, he hit a pregnant woman and ran away. He just got in a car accident and fled the car accident. He didn't willingly like, I'm going to get that pregnant lady's car and rammer and then flee. Like he got into a car accident panicked for reasons that you could probably guess why and then fled. And so the like framing of it in that fashion always felt. felt a little uneasy and like the UFC stripping him of the belt. It's like maybe like I mean it would be ludicrous to think they would do that now.

Like there's not a they wouldn't possibly do that right now. And so like maybe like the first iteration you could be like, huh, I wonder if they would have done this to a Connor McGregor, you know. But when it's the 18th time, no, he's the boy who got arrested. Okay. All right. Thank you, James. A question about this week's card.

Josh Van, who stepping out on late nose versus Brandon Royval UFC 317 is the favorite this week. Brand said immediate aid thinks of the most disrespectful fighter because of that as he write. So when Royval fought Tetsu Roetira, I interviewed him right before that fight, I believe it was the Monday before. And he said the same thing to me about this, that he felt like he's the most disrespected fighter from the betting line perspective because he always seems to be the underdog in some of these fights. So do you feel Jed Mishu as our host of No Betz Barred, our gambling program, that Brandon Royval is the most disrespected fighter in the UFC from a betting perspective?

From a betting perspective, no. maybe in general from a like broadly conceptual perspective he like has a case i don't i still think that that though this is becoming less i think it's pantosia um because i think pantosia is one of the top i think pantosia is like one of the top three pound fires in the world and people just like forget that he's now the longest reigning champion um under the u actually maybe maybe jang is longer than him i don't know the exact timelines certainly the longest reigning male champion at this point in time. But like, he's got a case.

I think he's fairly rated in general, because most people do think that he is among the very top fighters in his weight class, but not the best one. Because he's not the best one. It's Alejandro Pentosia. So no, I think broadly not. I will say, I was surprised he's the underdog to Van. And I like Van a whole lot. I've been very open about that. you know but like josh van coming in on short notice this is a slight disrespect to bruno

silver bruno riva berno rio vall ain't bruno sylva you know bruno silva is the best win on josh van's resume by a country mile and brand roi vall the the delta between those two is massive so um no i i i think it the odds are a little disrespectful but i also get where they're coming from so i think i'm just all the way out on this take from from him yeah right ball is six six he's six and topology 60% are picking worry ball so he's not an underdog and straight picks but i have a i have a bet on him i got him at plus 100 that's what i assume that's not plus buddy next to him i took it so who is the most disrespectful fighter then again um yeah pants is there there are some people i actually let me check I haven't looked at our rankings in a while.

There's some people who had pants as like number eight or some shit in our rankings panel. And I was like, this is ludicrous. This man has done nothing but beat all of the top men in its weight class repeatedly. I think you could have made a case from Marab up until... You definitely could have prior to this year function. Yeah. Prior to the Umar fight, Marab was probably the correct answer. Must be respected by Jed.

I would say We're all good on pants now That's good Everybody came on to pants On the rankings thing Maybe Yeah it's I think Pantoge is the correct answer

I would say Although the betting lines aren't too bad They're actually like a little more promising than I thought they would be Uh Benial Daryush has been typically a disrespected fighter. Probably true. By the UFC?

Or my fans? No, just from a betting perspective and fight fans too, honestly. But he has a lot in a long time. I think my actual answer is Mavsar I've loved both because he might actually just be the best other way to live. And the people talk about him like he's the most boring fighter who's ever lived. And, like, he's had boring fights. He's also not like, like him and Ankleyev, there's this narrative about, oh, my God, they're, they're the worst. And it's like, actually, they're not that boring.

They can be, certainly. But Anaglia of in particular is not boring. And Evelov, like, you talk about all the time, Mike, the Evel of Arnold Allen fight was quite fun. And Dana's like, that's the worst fight I've ever seen. Yeah, it's great. Because I don't think he can do mobs are. They're going to give Yia Rodriguez another crack at Volkanovsky over. I fucking have left.

Like, to me, that man is the most disrespectful man in the sport right now. Right now. You don't even have betting odds for the Pico fight yet? That's kind of surprising. It can't be. Is that fight official?

Yeah. Co-main, right? The co-main for Saudi, I think, or Abu Dhabi. Is that a pay-per-view, right? No, no, it's a fight-day. Is it a five-rounder? I don't know.

I believe it is. Pretty sure it is. Whitaker. Yeah. Yeah, it's the Whitaker RDR card. That's the co-main event. That's Pico's first five-rounder, I think. Because he never fought for the belt in Bellator.

Probably is. I can look that up, but I think that you're... I'm pretty sure that's his first five-rounder. That is... It's a five-rounder. It is five-rounder. Yeah, P-Ks. And that should be, you would think, an advantage for Mosar.

Yeah, all right. When does that fight again? Is it the summer? July 26th. So about a month away. Hey, month away. All right. That's six.

So he's a picture of Pico. If Lov hasn't had a five round fight in the UFC either. Really? Bad's wild. This will be his first first five round fight since July of 2018, his final fight before the UFC when he defended the M1 challenge title against Raphael Diaz and got a TKO in round five. Okay, so I actually did go into the championship rounds. Oh, interesting.

Yeah, all right. You answer everything? Yeah, I think we got that one. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Boza. Boy is a good shout. Yeah. Love the haircut, Jed.

Keep it short, my man. Thanks. I may or may not. When my hair grows out, it's not usually intentional. I just stop wanting to go to the barber. because it costs 50 bucks or whatever. I was like, yeah, it'll be fine. All right.

Super chat from RS 40. Let's stop the Jones talk and focus on the current fighters. Which UFC fighters the most pressure this week. Also, what do you think of the John Silva versus Diego Lopez matchup? So let's start with the first question and then we'll dive into question two. Jed, is Iliate, it has to be Ilya to pour you, right? Most pressure this week? Or do you see somebody else?

or maybe it's Fabian Edwards for PFL. Maybe it's George. Maybe it's Jake Paul. No, he asked UFC fighter. Oh, he's chouchay. R.S clarified. We can't be doing Fabian. Very good RS 40.

If I could only read, this would be a much smoother transition. I think it has to be Ilya, but I also don't think Ili has that much pressure on him, genuinely. Like, he has pressure because if he loses, he can catch it in the teeth, deservedly so. Like with all the mess he's been talking, everything, like fundamentally just looking straight past Charles Olivera, he will be excoriated appropriately. So if he loses. And so I think by that token, he just has to have the most pressure on him. Having said, he's 28 years old. He's the best featherweight on earth.

I know that he says he's moving to lightweight. He's moving to lightweight because he believes he can. If he loses to Charles Oliver, he'll go back to featherweight. It's just like I everybody bought into that narrative in a way that does not make sense to me of like, ah, it was too hard a weight cut. I watched Jose Aldo's entire career, him be on death's doorstep to make 145. And then when he got old, suddenly he can make 135. No, like it's hard because weight cuts are hard. Like, definitionally, they are tough.

If the difference is him having a belt and not, he's going to go back to 145 where he's probably the best fighter in the world. you know um because it's not like he was like this super enormous feather weight that just i can't believe he could make it like he looked he looked like he looked like he had easier weight cuts than connor did at 145 you know so if he loses he can just go back and that so there's like there is a safety net of i can just go back and knock out alexander vokernovsky again um or hang around i'm 28 years old right like i can fight patty at lightweight and then you know fight whoever has the lightweight belt after that. Like, he is insulated in the long term from, from failure here.

Short term, it would definitely suck long term. He can sort of take a loss in this point because, you know, immediately everybody would like, shouldn't look past Charles. And then in a week, everyone's like, weight classes exist for a reason. Charles, you know, Charles is one of the greatest fires of all time. No shame in that loss, which is true. There wouldn't be a lot of shame in a loss of Charles Oliva. And so there is, I think, also an argument.

that Charles is the other side of this because this is, Charles shouldn't be getting this title fight. Like it should be Armand Seruqi in here. And so this is really his last shot to reclaim the belt. And like his career is already great.

He's a Hall of Fame or etc. But he does have the pressure that this is it for him. It is all the marbles on this fight because he's never fighting for the belt if he loses here. Yeah, I agree. More pressure on Charles than Elia. Yeah, agree.

Yeah. Yeah, I still think, I mean, Charles is still super popular. He'll still fight on pay-per-views. He'll still be a co-main eventer. The fans will all love him. So there's pressure. So there's not a lot of pressure from like that aspect from a, yes, for the championship stuff.

Lightwich is just so weird. Charles has won at least two number one contender fights to get title shots. One of them happened to be his last fight against Michael Chandler, where when it was announced, this is a number one contender fight. the Benile Darius fight was also a number one contender fight. And then he took a third number one contender fight against Arb and Suruki. And he did lose that one. But like his last three fights were announced as number one contender fight.

So to some extent, if we are to take Dana White at his word, Charles should have gotten the shot because he beat Michael Chandler in a number one contender fight, which is how it was presented to us. Yeah, well, Batush Gamrod should have got this shot because he was the backup fighter. and backup fighters always fight for the belt for Dana White. Yeah, crazy. So, yeah, that's definitely interesting. I think also, I think Kai, too, has the most pressure, too, in the sense. I know we don't, I know fans don't care because Kai is just another guy, but these are two.

No, Kai. Two gentlemen who lose, they lose these title shots, gifted title shots, two gifted title shots, essentially at the top, for the top two fights that, I, feel like yeah, neither them are never fighting for a title again if they lose. If the, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, or Pantosia lose, they can come back, you know, yeah. It's a good point on Kai because Kai is not nearly as beloved as Charles is either. And his title shot is much more gifted. Like the Charles, you can squint your eyes and sell yourself to Charles should be one

half of this fight. Uh, Kai. Kai, Kai is not the most deserving title challenger in this way class on this card. He is probably the third most deserving title challenger in this way, on this card. Yeah, it's his, Kai's career is kind of wild. Super wacky.

It's, someone pointed this out and I saw us on Twitter and I had a look, I just looked it up right now to see if it's true. Because Kai had a lot to say about Minnell Cop, like not fighting. Minnell Cop has fought three more times since Cap came into the UFC than Kai Kar-France has. Cop has had nine UFC fights.

Kai Kar-Frances, March 2021 has fought six times and Manel Cop has fought more than him. Yes, there are a lot of black marks on the record. It's just when you pull out and he just pulls out. Oh, no, 100%. That's a freebie comment to make because like no one's going to stand up to defend Manel Cop as he withdrew from this fight card. So that's just like a free roll.

You can just do that like no one's going to call me on this. I like it. That's savvy. Yep. He's had nine. So February 2021 is when cop debuted against Pantosia and he's fought nine. times. Kai Kar-France fought six times in that same time frame.

So that actually that that really does surprise me. I didn't pretty wild. It doesn't feel that way. But yeah, the numbers don't either. Yeah. He's had injuries and all that stuff. But yeah, I mean, what a moment. If Kai Kar-France can get this done.

It's hard. He can, I mean, I'm not. He's got a real shot. Yeah. He has a shot. Yeah. His, his take down defense has got way better. I don't think he wins.

He doesn't deserve this title shot, but he is a title shot worthy challenger. Yeah, like he's one of the 10 best dudes in the weight class. This is a terrible fight, though. Like, I think this is an abomination of matchmaking because Kai can absolutely win. And if he does, that just like really jacks up your whole flyweight titles. Like, oh, here's this long-reaning champion against the guy who not even like on a win streak. You know, this isn't a Patrick Cote. Sure, he's not going to win, but he did string together five in a row or whatever.

just like, we just picked this dude. And if he comes in and wins, it's just like, okay, well, he's not going to have a long reign. He might even lose an immediate rematch to Pantosia. No. He's certainly going to lose to Moreno or Royvalla or whatever. So it's just like, no, no, no, no, no. You know what they're going to do.

If he wins, Manel Cop after withdrawing from this fight is going to get a title shot because they're going to try to cash that beef in because those two have been beeping for a while. There's no doubt in my mind. Pantosia will have to watch Menel Cop fight Kikar, France, in a grudge match. That's what will happen if Kai wins this fight. And Kai is well aware of that.

But Kai has said, I will give Kai credit because I asked him literally about this. And he said, that's the fight the UFC will make. They will have to pay me more in order for him to do that. Our cop has to earn his shot. But the UFC will 1,000% try to make that fight. I'll take the other action. I think they'd go Pantosia as the trilogy. Because you, oh, pants won on tough.

Kai won here. Trilogy fight. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, but you got to, you got to defer to pants, even though I don't like immediate rematches. You got to defer to them. For pants, I, like, that's what I would do, but that's not how the UFC thinks. They want the two guys who hate each other. I think Kai can win. Yeah.

I hope he doesn't because it's much better if pants wins and then pants is the Kai killer as well, which, you know, it's great. It's great gimmick. Yes. Also. Undeated against cops. Also, big news. Noce UFC has a main event in San Antonio. It will be Diego Lopez versus your boy, Jed, Gian Silva,

getting a main event spot on a big card. Thoughts on this particular matchup? I like it in general. This is the, hey, Lord, if you win, you're going to get a title fight, which is cool. Like, that's, that is the fight. His fight should be a title, Eliminator. Maybe not title

Eliminator. They're not going to run Lopez right back in there. But like if he wins, he should just be fighting for the belt neck. So that's awesome. I think he's got a real shot to win this fight certainly. I think this fight still is a travesty and doesn't make any sense because there's not a single good argument that

Diego Lopez and Yaya Rodriguez shouldn't be headlining Noche. There's just there's not one. There's not a reasonable argument why those two men are not headlining the Noche card. in September. And so in the context of that, this is stupid. Well, Yair said he's hurt.

He's injured and can't fight in September. That was his big explanation of the whole thing. Oh, is he? Even if they offered him a title fight, he wouldn't have been able to fight. So that's, there's no way Diego was not headlining this card unless they were in Moreno and somebody else. But you got that. Is that the case then? All right.

I accept it. And I guess that kind of sucks for Volt because it probably means Volk's fighting at the end of the year against the winner of Pico Mofsar. But like if that's the timeline, if Volk fights the winner of Pico Mavsar in November, December, maybe the MSG card or whatever. And then, you know, you get John Silva sitting Caged side to fight the winner of that. Hell yeah, that's a timeline I fuck with. Yeah. How many UFC no-chates have they been? Is this a third?

I believe this is the third. third okay what was the first one like we basically have mexican fighters ever headline the ufc noche uh the two years ago one wasn't that groso oh it's groso yeah grosos was the first one okay so grosso gosos chagena the first one and then not last year is and not this year so interesting uh so so here's what yire had to say i wanted to just pull this up make sure i was correct um when i had the chance to fight diego back of the day he said no because i was coming

He said no because I was coming off of a loss, but now that he's coming off a loss, he wants to fight me. I don't think he's very consistent with what he says. I obviously don't have any problem fighting him. If you asked me, I'd rather fight him in the damn street because a fight against him in the UFC doesn't do much for me. I'm not going to get paid more. It does absolutely nothing.

It won't put me in a better position. I'm also still injured from the last fight. So before anything, I first have to see where I'm at with that. I went to see a doctor. He recommended surgery. Obviously, I'm avoiding that at all costs. But let's see where the situation takes. takes me. I just wanted to come on here and clarify the situation. I've not turned down the fight

and I'd be more than happy to fight against this damn shithead in this entire team. So yeah, there you go. He's hoping. So he ends with, yeah, let's see what happens with my help and I can avoid the surgery. So, uh, I don't want to fight him in the UFC because it does nothing. I'd rather fight him in the street where I don't even get paid for it. Yes. And I really thought that one through there. Probably lose money in court costs. But yeah. Great opportunity for John Silva, that's for sure. He's getting a title fight if he wins. And if Mozart of life beats Aaron Pico, you better hope.

They immediately book a title fight for you in Volkovsky. They're going to have to. You're just going to have to. Yeah. But if they don't, and John Silva destroys Diego Lopez to close out Noce. And Volk doesn't have a title defense booked in 2025. They can't. They can't do it.

You can't. Denied Molesar forever. You gotta let him fight for it. You gotta. I agree. So go beat Aaron Pico. Don't take any damage. And hopefully you get to fight Volk before the end of the year.

Also, I have zero confidence he's beating Pico. That's a hard fucking fight for him. Hard fight for him. They, they plan this out real well. We're going to do literally everything on our power to not let you get near the belt.

Mossar. Like that is. Aaron Pico is the Mobsar contingency plan. Interesting. Historically, who have, what other fighters has the UFC made a title shot run this difficult? I know they're like Al Jermaine was running them, right? The original one is John Fitch. John Fitch is the original.

You're going to have to beat every person alive until there's just no other outcome. Like he was the, the first dude was like, he had to win eight in a row. this is lugacorous. And so he's always the first one I think of. Yeah, he was the original. You're right. John Fitch was like the originator. He was born and they hated that he wouldn't fight cost check because they were teammates.

And so they like double hated him. And they made Fitch go through every hoop you could imagine. But I was like, there's just nobody. He beat Tiago Alva's like, fuck it, I guess, man. Yeah. And what's crazy is like every name on this list outside of maybe John Fitch, especially in the modern era, they've all won the belt. once I got their shot.

Balal, Ankoliath, uh, Marab. Rob had to win, what, 10 in a row before he got his title shot. He beat a little piece of that that's also like his teammate.

He might have gotten it earlier if his teammate wasn't holding the belt, but yes. But I mean, yeah. I mean, Ankylaev. Go ahead.

O'Hagliov's right at the time. Leon? Oh, Leon Edwards. Oh, Leon Edwards. I think Leon Edwards might actually be the number one answer. I think Leon is the number one. Cut Leon for a day. They removed him on the rankings for a day.

Because the Hamza thing. It's quite. It's insane. Leon is certainly up there. Yeah. And that is an interesting point. I haven't really thought about it, Mike. They're like most of the people have won the belt.

Because previously when it was the Fitches, I'm trying to think of who's that Australian lightweight. Yeah. Well, yeah. But who's that Australian lightweight. Soteropolis. Soteropolis, who won like 10 in a row and never got a title. Like previously the guys who were in that position,

they all ended up losing because it was like, all right, you had to fight GSP or whatever. Whereas now it's like, if you made it through that gauntlet, shit, you probably are just the best.

I guess you're going to win the belt. Yep. Thank you, R.S.40. All right. Another super chat from Spencer. In your heart of hearts, are you gentlemen satisfied with the International Flight Week card?

It took me a sec to come around but for me it's a yes. Yeah, I think we kind of touched on this at the beginning. Yeah, this is a fine, a fine fight card for, for 2025. Is this 2019 international fight week? No, but it's still really good. This is the best car of the year. I think it's a best car of the year. I don't agree with that.

Which, what would, what do you believe is better? I would say 311 and 314 were better on paper than this one. But the problem with 311 is 311 died the night before. So no, if 311 had gone through as it planned, but the Moikano swap was just not it. Yeah, that that that stunk. That yeah, that that that were. I still loved the card. We had two fight of the year contenders on the same card.

Yeah, but that's, we don't know what we're about to get. Execution versus on paper on paper once the swap happened. 314 314. 314. Oh, um, yeah, no. I think this is better than 314. Um, personally. That's a personal preference.

Um, I'm going to pick the card. that doesn't have the Hitler Apologist on it for my personal favorite. All right, that's fair. Even though he did get God, which, you know, the shot and Freud and all of us was happy. I love this card.

This is... I like it too. The main event, this is the fight I wanted. I know that we all lost the plot there for a while, but like, I'm old enough to remember in the fall when Ilya was saying,

I'll go up and I don't have to fight for the belt. I'll fight Charles. And everyone was like, that'd be pretty cool. And then they immediately were just like, actually, if he doesn't, fight is Lamakov, I may go stand in traffic. This is the fight I wanted.

I am deeply interested in it. There's no chance it's not awesome, however it goes. I think the co-main event is sort of the weak link just because you are throwing Kai undeservedly in this, but still a good matchup that I think is compelling. The feature bout of the evening, it would be better if it was the cop fight, right? But like Josh Van is as good of a short notice replacement as you can get. If this is, like, Josh Vans got a lot of Max Holloway to him. If this is him just suddenly ascending at 23, that's going to be dope as hell.

If it's like the original booking and not short notice, it'd be fine. It was just straight up. It'd be better. Yeah. But it's still totally fine. Moikano, Daryush is like perfect in AK's words, age appropriate matchmaking. They're 10 days apart from each other for birthdays. Talbot Lima is a, like, maybe you don't want that to be your last main card fight,

but I also don't have any issues with it. I think that fight's going to be a heater. I love that. Talking about two very, very good prospects. I really, I think Jackerman's a Robocop is, like, that's a perfect matchup. Heidi Ramele Delgado, that'll just be fun, right? They're just going to hit the shit out of each other. Erujo Cortez, top 10 fly weights.

Terence McKinney and Slava Clause, that will take at most six minutes. There's just no chance that fight lasts longer than six minutes. Jacobi Smith is one of the biggest betting favorites of all time against the guy like Nico Price who dies. That's going to, we know what that outcome is and that will be at least fun. Genada Denise, Alvin Hines, I have a really special thought in that heart. If you haven't listened to No Bet's Bard,

I spent more time than you would think talking about Alvin Hines. And then no one gives a fuck about the Ewert McVeigh fight. But it is better than letting Sardt's drink too much. all fight. That fight is going to be awesome. Two very exciting. I could not tell you a single fact about either man. Jackson McVeigh has not seen.

I don't think he, I think he's only seen past the two minute mark once. He's never seen a second round. He's very, very good. You were supposed to fight on Contender Series. Really, really, really good. If we look at the last four international fight week cards, this is the second best one over the last four years. For sure. 290 was.

290 was peak that that card and we all knew that card was going to rock that was the vulcanowski oh yeah oh yeah 90 was a heater for sure pantosia moreno ddp whitaker uh honestly if you look at 290 there's a lot of overlap here right like yes you've got wolkenowski fight on this card it didn't on international but not his fault this time uh pentosia fights for the flyway belt in the co-main bo nickel is is your main card opener super prospect egg to bone nickel there's a lot of overlap

when you're sort of looking at these two things and we had a fight get called like literally the day before on that card too with the whole Josiah Harell situation Esteban Riebevich

was part of the first fight of UFC 290 and look where he's gotten and yeah 290 was absolutely spectacular what a great card that was and 303 was super weird

because Conner was supposed to fight and then we got Pereira and Yuri like three weeks notice. We lost a fight literally the day of and Dan Igay drove to the arena and freaking fought Diego Loeb. I really saved the card because it was just so like preposterous that it was cool. It's like I can't believe because otherwise just like we put Roman Delezae versus Anthony Smith on a fight week card.

That was that was the best booking that was. That was a tough one. Mace Chesson like beat the shit at a Meyer Buena Silva. So that was kind of cool. Ian Machado, Gary, Michael Page was an interesting fight, but was not all that thrilling at execution. Yeah. This card is a good one. So, yeah, long story short, I am definitely satisfied with this card.

Oh, and the one before the, the 2022 one was... 276. ...to the only time I've covered an international fight week card was UFC 276. We got that main event. we did get in my opinion one of the greatest performances of all time yeah I think it's the I think it's the best title defense ever I think it's the best performance

very possibly maybe Connor versus Eddie Alvarez but we also got one of the funniest fights of all time Sean Strickland walking forward of his hands down into Alex Pereira's left hook still to this day one of the funniest things I've ever seen like what is he doing like what is he oh my God

yeah yeah that's what should have happened you dumb ass Oh my God. Oh, and yeah, yeah, that was at least a good card afterwards, but the main event really soured the whole thing. I just got a press release, which is hilarious. It's about our friend, Ben the Bain Davis, appearing on the challenge, which is great. But they have listed him in this press release as a UFC play-by-play commentator.

Love that for him. He trains UFC. He does. I love that on his official stuff, it's boxer. That is just not really what Bain is, but I love it for him. This is great. He does it all. It's unbelievable.

All right. Next question. All right. Super Jet. Oh, 70. This is super and semi-nobb. 70 Zars. hopefully that'll buy me a lot of coffee

shout out to the hardest and Rand shout out to the hardest working team in MMA media who does Charles fight with the win and this is far out I know but does the winner of Derrida versus Whitaker

get the next title shot love y'all so let's start with the first question if Charles beats Ilya Teporea Jed who does he fight next probably Armin they probably run that back I wouldn't say it's a hundred

but it's probably north of 90 that that's where we go there mainly because like I just think regardless Ili is fighting Patty it's just whether he's fighting Patty for the title or whether he's fighting him for a title shot right like but like there's a non-zero chance that they look at it and say it's probably better if Patty fights Charles right than it is if Harmon does and so I wouldn't put it 100%, but it does seem likely that it's Armin if Charles wins. Yeah, I think they do if Charles wins, they'll do Charles Armin and they'll pay Gaichy what he needs to fight Patty and they'll do that fight. And the winner of that fight will.

It'd be a lot cool if it was Gaichi, Charles. That would be pretty ripping. Yeah. Although Patty could fight Ilya, which I think is going to have winner. I don't know. A lot can happen. But maybe Ilya loses and just sits out for a minute and Patty asked to fight Gaichy before he fights Ilya, who knows.

Unless I lia goes back to 1.45, he's fighting Patty next. There's just, I don't think there's a world where he does not fight Patty next unless it's, I lost. I'm going to get a belt now. And second question, does the winner of RDR, Robert Whitaker get the next title shot? 100%. Even if Whitaker wins? Oh, that will depend.

Actually, no, if Whitaker wins probably not then. Because like, who cares to see him fight Hamzot's out again? but 100% because RDR is going to beat him. Or DDP. DDP wiped the floor with him. Yeah, but that's at least far enough away that you can maybe squint your eyes and hope. Two years ago.

But it doesn't matter. RDR is going to win. RDR is going to win so it doesn't matter. I would like putting it. I'm sneaking my whole personality on RDR winning the goddamn fight, so he better do it. I think RDR is a very good chance if he wins. If he wins, I don't.

This is just 100% that it's happening. going back to going back to the first part is is patty fine for the title next if if if a lily wins but if he's just fighting ilia then he's fighting ilia for a title shot he's fighting ilia next is just whether it's for the belt or not is determined on whether ilia wins because like how do you not make that fight next how you have you have to you have to make it next regardless. So where does Patty get, where's Patty going to get right now?

Well, um, God that shout out. Shabli popped. Tafik Maseyf just got finished by Mektebeck Oralbi. So or by, or by's right there. So Pat.

Pat. Yeah. Or by never successfully made 155. Oh, that, okay. One time he did. One time he did. He,

he did. Oh, now we care about making weight now. Oh, you guys care about. by this scale now? Geez. Now we're picky about it.

I can't wait for the Elvis Brenner fight. He did make wait for that one. Patty's going to win the belt in case. He's going to be like, shit, I guess I have to rank him now. All right. All right. The UFC Chandler number 12.

Number 15, yeah. A courtesy ranking, sure. Honestly, it's an incredible gimmick and you should never change it. Just don't rank them. Guys, Chandler sucks. Come on. He's old. He does suck in his old.

Yeah, it wasn't. If Patty, if Patty fights Ilya for the belt and wins the belt, where do you rank? That'd be so damn cool. Would you rank Patty pound for pound higher than you would rank him at lightweight? I mean, well, this must be for Casey. It's a Casey question. I'd rank him one at lightweight and he would not be one pound for pound.

No, no, no. No, I don't. This is to me what ifs. This is too me what if. It is a weird question, but it is a fair question. You're hurting my brain. I'm moving on. Yes.

Too much. Too much of that. Next question. Talk about some future matchups that got announced. Thoughts on UFC Shanghai, August 23rd being official, Johnny Walker, Min-Jang-Jang. we kind of knew that if I was going to happen. We just didn't like fully, fully confirm it. In the main event, Aljo versus Brian Ortega announced last night as the co-made event.

I mean, good fight, man. Like, that's a good one. Good for Aljo. We didn't get clarification on whether that's five rounds or not. I mean, the default is that it's not. I would like that to be five. I mean, this feels like a, I don't know if y'all did a lot of, this will not know this seemed like a real fan casted fight uh after aljo and mov saw i was like

yeah just put these two dudes together the the grappling will be quite cool and i support it i am surprised are you surprised ortega didn't go to lightweight uh yes in general because he had been talking about that but maybe he's just like i don't i think that that wouldn't be a good move for him and so maybe he realized that especially now ilia's left you know, featherweight divisions in turmoil. Maybe I can sneak my way in there with name recognition. I think Lightwood would just be a, it would be fun because Lightway always is fun. They were great matchups.

I think he would do quite poorly in the weight class, though. If you are Lorraine Murphy, are you preparing yourself to step in and fight on this card against one of these two guys? More so Al Jermaine Sterling. Because Brian Ortega, while he's fun, when he gets to the Octagon, does it always get to the Octagon? if I'm laron Murphy I am sitting in a room

clockwork orange style with my eyeballs held open to watch Justin Gachey highlights and figure out how to be a compelling fighter because look at what they're doing to Mavsorovov, buddy, you're going to have to fight 30 fucking times

if you don't like find a way to just be more interesting. And so you like he could step in and fight short notice for the winner of this and it will move him no closer to the belt. He will get a title fight as an absolute last resort unless he finds a way to be fun. So that should be his priority right now.

He is teasing a fight maybe with Arnold Allen. A lot of people had reached out and asked about that. That matter. It's total sense. Yeah. I've reached out to some people who say that there's not been a, at least one person told me there has not been a single discussion about that fight just yet. So the latest I've heard about Arnold Allen, because I know he, there were a

reports that he was fighting Diego Lopez on some card in July, which I pretty much debunked right away. Arnold's still healing up. He was injured because he's always injured. He's always injured. It's surgery of like, I believe, a month ago. And the plan is like September, all things like go perfectly well. Arnold fights in September.

That's sort of what he and his team are shooting for. So maybe September, October, we see Arnold Allen. So who knows? Maybe we get Jerome Murphy, Arnold Allen, sometime in the fall, which I'd be fine with. I think that fight makes all the sense in the world. Yep.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Boza. All right. Master of the Universe Classic. Mike Jetta Mustache, where does Benio go with a win over Moikano? I can't see him building for a title. So do you think he'll continue to be a gatekeeper in the division?

I mean, yeah, he's definitely a gatekeeper. The gates are being kept. Which again, honorable profession. You got to every empire needs somebody to watch the gates, you know. That's just a good job. I wonder. I think about being other. Yeah, maybe.

I don't know. I was thinking Chandler. I just think it's a fun fight, but. It would be fine. He's going to have to. There's no wrong way to eat in lightweight wreaths. There's just no one way to do it. He's fighting like Joel Alvarez or.

Well, yeah. World Buy or somebody like that. Literally. Yeah, I mean, they might do Santini and Gamrod and just like settle that one. You could do Gamrod and Fiziv, like have a proper fight after the injury. I mean, there's lightweight's best division in the sports. It's great to be able to discuss this. But I wonder if there's like any fighter in this division that could turn back time when he had a live microphone in his hand.

if he could have done things differently. After he beats Batush Gamrott, with literally a title fight happening on the same card, if he just said, Islam, Charles, I get the, or Islam, if you win, I'm on the great winning streak right now. Charles, if you win,

I'm on a great winning streak right now. Respectfully, I get the winner. Instead of saying, I'll fight 10 more times in a row, and I'll beat all of them, and then I'll get a title fight. Like, I wish maybe he could have gone back to that day, And if he had done things a little differently, what do you've got in the title fight?

I don't know. As Bigank, M.MA says, Chandler versus BSD, that's the fight. That's the fight. Just book that one. That's it. Yeah, I think, I think Derrier, she's going to be permanently just, if he wins, he fights that killed her prospect. He's the vet versus prospect guy for. I'm saying, like, who, who's the guy now?

Is it Dawson? Like is it Grant Dawson? Orrb. Oral by can't make lightweight. So like that would just be a huge waste of time to do oral. Well, there are, I mean, there are reports that Alvarez and Dosser were going to fight each other. But I was told there wasn't any truth to that. Also, I thought Joel Alvarez is moving up anyway because the weight cut was terrible or whatever.

So maybe do Oral by Alvarez at 170. Sure. Love that idea. I got no issues with that. Put Joel Alvarez in fights. That's all I give a shit about seeing that dude fight. So on to the next. On to the next one, I booked Oralby versus Nicholas Dalby at Welter Wade.

I think it will be Fiziv. As I'm looking at this, I think it will be Fiziv versus Daryush. That's what will happen. I certainly don't hate that. Fiziv called out Dan Hooker. Fiziv called out Dan Hooker. I think he's getting a real good chance of getting that fight. Dan Hooker's fighting Justin Gitchie.

I don't know, man. We'll see. Why would Gitchie fight him now? After everything he said, why would he fight Dan Hooker now? Because they'll be like, hey man, I know we talked about this before the stupid Gensi Fazeep fight. I was like, you know what they're fighting for to fight Fizif? To fight Hooker again, they'll be like, hey, man, we can't give you a title fight. We'll give you some more money and I promise that if you beat Dan Hooker, you get to fight for the title.

Yeah, that promise. Also, what are we doing? Oh, that's right. I mean, I guess if win or lose, what are we doing with Max against Dustin? Oh, yeah. We got, we got, like, he's fighting Dustin, but like, win or loss, that doesn't, that doesn't really matter that much to his lightweight standing. Benny versus.

No wrong way to eat this, Reese. Yeah, it's lightweight. Lightway rules. Roman a hat, pick names out, see what happens. God, I completely forgot, but I completely forgot about Max Holloway and all this. I completely forgot. Well, that's because he's booked. So, you know, we don't.

But, but, but, but, but, but he's going to be part of it. I mean, like, if he, if he beats Dustin, I mean, like, he, if he beats Dustin, he is, he is, he is 100% in this, he is 100% in this conversation for a title fight. If he beats Dustin and Charles beats I'll, then they're just going to do Charles Max. And if they don't, I may fly to Vegas and set fire to the apex. If both of those things happen and you don't do Charles Max to the lightweight belt, I will burn the apex to the ground. it would be like fuck Arm and Syruci and sorry my guy Charles Max is the fight

yeah yep and then Syruci can fight Amrott or Gagian you'll fight Hooker Surukian can fight Camrod and Ilya and Patty can fight this is actually the perfect world

it's a real narrow window to hit but that's the lane we need to find ourselves in a lot needs to happen a lot needs to happen a lot of low percentage outcomes need to happen. What else we got? And by the way, I'm picking Benny D to win on Saturday.

I have a bet on Benny D to win. So do I. All right. Let's dueling money cannons are going to be. I have a lot of underdog action. I either believe that the favorites are like the big favor will win or the underdog is like it's just a very strange card in that manner. I don't know how you rank.

fight like what is the opposite of the you know looks great coming off the bus what is the opposite of that because whatever that is that's been ill derrish i've seen it many times in gyms and in locker rooms at events and like i'm just always kind of florida's like dude that just just one of the best lightweights in the world and like he looks just like it's it's great because it's fun not like that happens in heavyweight a lot but it doesn't happen that much in lighter weight classes and so it's always much more fun when it is like George Slaughter Rapos was a top 10 lightweight for like a while and he

not only did like he looked weird like his his body looked curious but he looked like an old timey boxer at least that I can least he looked like Humpty Dumpty like he had a lot of leg and like a compact

little torso and it's just like you wouldn't be like that's an athlete much less that's an ass beater and people like that are just they're endlessly enjoyable. I'd love them so much. Yeah. Whatever the opposite of

looks great off the bus, that's there. It's just like the goat right there right now. So I just want to point that out. Thank you, Master's Universe. All right, what time are we at? Oh, hour 10.

All right, let me see what else we got here before we bounce. Oh, this is interesting. One more from Master's Universe. Now John Retire, we have no male UFC champion anymore, or male U.S. champion anymore. First time since 2004, who do you think will next win the title for the United States? This was raised on, I did submission radio morning after on Sunday with me and Jimmy Smith. And there became a point where it was just me and Jimmy because Dennis, Dennis' computer failed.

So it was just me and Jimmy just took over the show. and at some point Jimmy brought it up and then it took us a minute to realize that Kayla Harrison is the only thing standing between there just being any U.S. champions right now. Looking at the slate,

not a lot of options out there because like Ily and Charles Armin is not and like he's obviously the next closest thing. Walter weight Islam's up and then it's like

Shavka Sean Brady so no middleweight just no nobody at middleweight is is looking to do that light heavyweight nah

heavyweight Curtis Blades is the best hope but like yeah nah uh buddy the honest to God answer

is a man competing this weekend and I don't think it'll happen soon. I think Josh Van is like Max Holloway at Flyweight and he'll get there, but it may, if he wins his weekend, then shit, he might get there by next year. If he loses to Royval, it might take him a few years to sort of just build it back up. But he's, if I'm throwing my money behind somebody, he's probably the choice. Over Max? Why?

Even himself? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think Max is washed, not like all the way wash. Not like all the way wash. I don't think he's like all the way washed. How do you think that was just a... Oh, I think Gaichi is cooked. I think Gauche is cooked, cooked.

Okay, okay. And the physique, the Fazeev win from Gaichi is just like an incredible... I thought about that a lot as I watched the Fiziv Bahamandes fight. As I was like, man, just Justin Gaetchi is a better fighter than anyone gives him credit for because he is, to me, clearly does not have his fastball anymore. and I know Fazeve took it on short notice but he just like beat Fiziv who is clearly a top 10 lightweight

I think I think Justin had a bad fight I think that's a bad matchup but I think both of them just aren't they don't have their fastballs anymore and that's maybe Max and like true all time greats like Max they can sort of it prolong their career several years deep into like shit

look at the end of Josie Aldo's run nobody who ever paid attention believes that Jose Aldo the Bantamweight was nearly the level that Joseo Alto the featherweight was. But he had an unbelievable run at 135 anyway because like when you're that damn good, you can make chicken shit out of chicken salad or however that phrase goes.

So I just, I'd be really impressed if Max found a way to the belt. So two names for me that I think have a chance. Like and I think right now, Josh Van I think we'll get there, but I think it's going to be like, it's going to be a couple of years before you get there. Collieleo Roundtree is one,

because I do think stylistically, he could give Angolaev some trouble. He could give Anklei of some trouble. With the leg kicks, Aguilai is susceptible to that. If his take-down defense is somewhat short up, he's got a chance in that fight. The other name I will throw out,

and I wouldn't pick him, but I'm just going with immediacy and something that could absolutely happen. Corey Sandhagen. Yeah, Corey. Yeah. Because he's going to fight Marab next. I totally forgot about Corey.

That's a great call. Yeah, he could be. He could beat Mara. Great call. On a great night, he could win. So. But yeah, it's a great call. I completely forgot Corey.

That Corey probably, Corey should be in front of Josh Van because he will, it seems like he's getting the opportunity first. I do think I like Van's chances better. If he can beat Royval, then if he beats Royval, I'm probably going to pick them over pants. Wow. Assuming pants meets KKF.

But we'll see. Corey is probably the correct answer, and I just don't forgot about him. Anything else? But this did make me, I mean, we're just continuing on this topic. World Cups next year,

and the last two World Cups, I have done a World Cup of MMA long form piece. And the first year, the U.S. wasn't in the World Cup. did not qualify so they did not win the world cup of MMA based on the rules of this fictional game I invented last last time they won convincingly because at the time they were like six of the male

like six of the champions were from the United States like pretty obviously they win this time around I don't know man like just look at the current UFC rankings not a lot of American names populating these lists anymore man tough scenes for for the sport here i'm going to throw one more name and i'm just just to like will it into existence that ufc gods like put him in a position to at least try dominic grayis i mean that'd be great that what a story what of like it probably what

he's in the right division to make it happen he sure is on bohoevitch and glover got those stories It'd be incredible. I mean, that is a real Disney movie shit if Reyes somehow pulled that off. Dude, next year, International Fight Week, main event's going to be Dominic Reyes versus Killow Roundtree. Watch, I'm just saying. Wow, okay. The winner, America. America.

International Fight Week, America. Oh, this is you, I didn't even think about this. Sorry, someone just threw this out there. E. Casey, what logic will you use to put Charles as the number one lightweight if he wins, being that he lost to Armin. Also, love, E. Casey. I just realized that if Charles wins, if Charles wins, essentially he's beating an unranked lightweight, I have Charles ranked at number five right now.

Well, my job would take off because he's... Casey, I'll help you. I scored that fight for Olavera. It was close. Yeah, I thought the fight was very. Yeah, I scored it for all there. I gave him the third round. How dare you.

I don't believe Armand did anything. I haven't rewatched the fight recently. So I'm absolutely not married to this. I was not the only one. I did just pull up. I know. Um, thing. But it as I distinctly remember watching a lot, I've been like,

Armand is full on lay and prey trying to, trying to hold on to win this. And, uh, didn't have a problem with Arm and getting the score card. But if I was really. competitive. Casey, I think it's going to like by proxy, even though he could try his best and I love the gimmick, I think just by process of elimination, he's going to have to rank Patty because I think we're taking Islam out of the lightweight rankings, right? Islam can be out.

Shout, I got to take Shaq. You want to ask AK, AK, literally the most thing thing was just like, I know we're removing Max, but we're not removing Ilio or what the hell he did the last time we did featherweights. It's like they both declared they're leaving. Yeah, but it would be too hard to math it. Like, that was his actual answer. I don't want to do the math if we cut both of them. So one gets to stay an extra cycle.

Who knows what a kale declare are the rules, you know? It's got to be a fun ranking show after 317. Charles wins. I can't have him at number one. It's going to be weird. Yeah. You can. You can absolutely do it.

I'm not. It's your world. I know. Or you could put Arm in, which is also fine. And then Dustin's going to be out of the rankings in like three weeks. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah. There's no avoiding it, Casey.

Patty Bidlittlet's going to be a ranked fighter. Patty Biddley's going to keep moving up based on all these guys retiring and moving. Oh, my God. Guys, I just looked at the UFC rankings and this is not, this is only marginally relevant because I knew they were stupid because the rankings are false because they have both Max and Toporia still in their rankings. Would you like to fathom a guess at where Max and Ilya are in the featherway? rankings. Are they having feather white?

They sure do. They got to be one and two. They sure or not. They're one and three and Max is one. What? Tupori is three in the UFC featherweight ranking behind Diego Lopez who is behind Max Hollow. It is in.

This is the best shit I've ever seen. I desperately, desperately need to somebody to ask Dana about this, be like, remember when you said you're going to fix the rankings, how is Max behind Iliate feather, or in front of Iliate featherweight? Also, how are they both ranked in featherweight? Wow, that's, that is incredible. Huge fan of this.

Thank you for finding. Thank you for finding that. That kind of made my day. Oh, my God. That is why. Because like John Silver is 11, but John Silva is actually nine, because neither Max really are in the weight class anymore.

But it's unbelievable. I was just like, huh? Oh my God, they put Ilya behind Max. How? In what world did this happen? Oh, my God. Clearly somebody on their panels, like, just didn't rank Ilya. And somehow that math.

But did rank Max, which is a goddamn video. Are you in the UFC rankings? Are you in the UFC rankings panel? It just didn't. I have another, I have another site, like, MMA MMA KC Yeah, MMA trick

Yeah, KC punchkick dot CC MNMECC MNC has is the only one not to rank Patty Patty. Patty's out of the rankings Anything else Are we good? We are good.

No, we got to end on that. That's just unbelievable. Ilya being ranked number three at featherweight is behind the current champion that he knocked out and the number one guy that he knocked out

He's just a lead. That would be a great question. Maybe, hey, someone, or ping Jose, like at the press conference today. Ask Ely and Dana, that about me. He's ranked number three pound for pound and number three at featherweight. Just delightful. Just the best. That's why we're in May fighting rankings.

The only rankings that matter, ladies a gentleman. It really is true. Yeah. We don't hide behind who we are and how we rank. We get right out in the face of it. And we say, bring it on. bring your at least tell you when we do something a little kooky yeah then we have then we air it out and then we're okay about it it's all good uh so obviously busy weekend uh 3 pm eastern

tomorrow we'll have our ufc 317 preview show be myself and the wonderful prince of positivity alexander kaley we'll get you ready uh obviously everything else going on on friday hose's boots in the grounds and boots in the ground in las vegas so uh way ins i believe there's a Terence Crawford, Canello Presser happening that day as well. Lots happening on Friday. We will have the People's Pre Fight Show at 545 p.m. Eastern on Saturday. Watch party, 9.30 p.m. Eastern time right at Jack Hermanson versus Gregory Rodriguez. Gotta be.

It's got to be. We'll start right there. And then post show backstage stuff onto the next one live on Sunday. The whole Ken Keputal Jake Paul coverage as well, I believe. Casey will be in the building. That's where I'll be. I'll be in Anaheim. Yes.

Following the watch party and following the live blog because I'll be watching OK boxing, I guess. Yeah, Holly Holm will be competing on that card as well. So, yeah, hit the music. We're done. I got to get ready. Kids got golf match number two coming up later on today. So hopefully you can improve. to 2-0 as a competitive golfer.

So thank you very much. Back tomorrow with all the fun. Stick with us.mate.com for Casey for Jed. I invite Kek. Back on Tuesday to react to all the craziness. We'll see you then. The iconic voice of Svesterlin takes you home. Good night, everyone.

Two Michelin Stars, boys. Two Michulans. Two Michulen stars. Love, love. This has been. between the links, an MMAT fighting production on the Vox Media Network.